,,the ,,works ,,of ,,robert ,g4 ,,ingersoll ,by ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll ,,happiness ,,is ,,the ,,only ,,good1 ,,reason ,,the ,,only ,,torch1 ,,justice ,,the ,,only ,,worship1 ,,humanity ,,the ,,only ,,religion1 ,,and ,,love ,,the ,,only ,,priest4 ,,in ,,twelve ,,volumes1 ,,volume ,,viii4 ,,interviews #aijj ,dresden ,edition ,,interviews ,,the ,,bible ,,and ,a ,,future ,,life ,question4 ,colonel1 are your views of religion based upon the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,i regard the ,bible1 especially the ,old ,testament1 the same as ,i do most other ancient books1 in which there is some truth1 a great deal of error1 considerable barbarism and a most plentiful lack of good sense4 ,question4 ,have you found any other work1 sacred or profane1 which you regard as more reliable8 ,answer4 ,i know of no book less so1 in my judgment4 ,question4 ,you have studied the ,bible attentively1 have you not8 ,answer4 ,i have read the ,bible4 ,i have heard it talked about a good deal1 and am sufficiently well acquainted with it to justify my own mind in utterly rejecting all claims made for its divine origin4 ,question4 ,what do you base your views upon8 ,answer4 ,on reason1 observation1 experience1 upon the discoveries in science1 upon observed facts and the analogies properly growing out of such facts4 ,i have no confidence in anything pretending to be outside1 or independent of1 or in any manner above nature4 ,question4 ,according to your views1 what disposition is made of man after death8 ,answer4 ,upon that subject ,i know nothing4 ,it is no more wonderful that man should live again than he now lives2 upon that question ,i know of no evidence4 ,the doctrine of immortality rests upon human affection4 ,we love1 therefore we wish to live4 ,question4 ,then you would not undertake to say what becomes of man after death8 ,answer4 ,if ,i told or pretended to know what becomes of man after death1 ,i would be as dogmatic as are theologians upon this question4 ,the difference between them and me is1 ,i am honest4 ,i admit that ,i do not know4 ,question4 ,judging by your criticism of mankind1 ,colonel1 in your recent lecture1 you have not found his condition very satisfactory8 ,answer4 ,nature1 outside of man1 so far as ,i know1 is neither cruel nor merciful4 ,i am not satisfied with the present condition of the human race1 nor with the condition of man during any period of which we have any knowledge4 ,i believe1 however1 the condition of man is improved1 and this improvement is due to his own exertions4 ,i do not make nature a being4 ,i do not ascribe to nature intentions4 ,question4 ,is your theory1 ,colonel1 the result of investigation of the subject8 ,answer4 ,no one can control his own opinion or his own belief4 ,my belief was forced upon me by my surroundings4 ,i am the product of all circumstances that have in any way touched me4 ,i believe in this world4 ,i have no confidence in any religion promising joys in another world at the expense of liberty and happiness in this4 ,at the same time1 ,i wish to give others all the rights ,i claim for myself4 ,question4 ,if ,i asked for proofs for your theory1 what would you furnish8 ,answer4 ,the experience of every man who is honest with himself1 every fact that has been discovered in nature4 ,in addition to these1 the utter and total failure of all religionists in all countries to produce one particle of evidence showing the existence of any supernatural power whatever1 and the further fact that the people are not satisfied with their religion4 ,they are continually asking for evidence4 ,they are asking it in every imaginable way4 ,the sects are continually dividing4 ,there is no real religious serenity in the world4 ,all religions are opponents of intellectual liberty4 ,i believe in absolute mental freedom4 ,real religion with me is a thing not of the head1 but of the heart2 not a theory1 not a creed1 but a life4 ,question4 ,what punishment1 then1 is inflicted upon man for his crimes and wrongs committed in this life8 ,answer4 ,there is no such thing as intellectual crime4 ,no man can commit a mental crime4 ,to become a crime it must go beyond thought4 ,question4 ,what punishment is there for physical crime8 ,answer4 ,such punishment as is necessary to protect society and for the reformation of the criminal4 ,question4 ,if there is only punishment in this world1 will not some escape punishment8 ,answer4 ,i admit that all do not seem to be punished as they deserve4 ,i also admit that all do not seem to be rewarded as they deserve2 and there is in this world1 apparently1 as great failures in matter of reward as in matter of punishment4 ,if there is another life1 a man will be happier there for acting according to his highest ideal in this4 ,but ,i do not discern in nature any effort to do justice4 --,the ,post1 ,washington1 ,d4 ,c41 #ahgh4 ,,mrs4 ,,van ,,cott1 ,,the ,,revivalist ,question4 ,i see1 ,colonel1 that in an interview published this morning1 ,mrs4 ,van ,cott 7the revivalist71 calls you a poor barking dog4 ,do you know her personally8 ,answer4 ,i have never met or seen her4 ,question4 ,do you know the reason she applied the epithet8 ,answer4 ,i suppose it to be the natural result of what is called vital piety2 that is to say1 universal love breeds individual hatred4 ,question4 ,do you intend making any reply to what she says8 ,answer4 ,i have written her a note of which this is a copy3 ,buffalo1 ,feb4 #bdth1 #ahgh4 ,,mrs4 ,,van ,,cott2 ,my dear ,madam3--,were you constrained by the love of ,christ to call a man who has never injured you a poor barking dog8 ,did you make this remark as a ,christian1 or as a lady8 ,did you say these words to illustrate in some faint degree the refining influence upon women of the religion you preach8 ,what would you think of me if ,i should retort1 using your language1 changing only the sex of the last word8 ,i have the honor to remain1 ,yours truly1 ,r4 ,g4 ,,ingersoll ,question4 ,well1 what do you think of the religious revival system generally8 ,answer4 ,the fire that has to be blown all the time is a poor thing to get warm by4 ,i regard these revivals as essentially barbaric4 ,i think they do no good1 but much harm1 they make innocent people think they are guilty1 and very mean people think they are good4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion concerning women as conductors of these revivals8 ,answer4 ,i suppose those engaged in them think they are doing good4 ,they are probably honest4 ,i think1 however1 that neither men nor women should be engaged in frightening people into heaven4 ,that is all ,i wish to say on the subject1 as ,i do not think it worth talking about4 --,the ,express1 ,buffalo1 ,new ,york1 ,feb41 #ahgh4 ,,european ,,trip ,,and ,,greenback ,,question ,question4 ,what did you do on your ,european trip1 ,colonel8 ,answer4 ,i went with my family from ,new ,york to ,southampton1 ,england1 thence to ,london1 and from ,london to ,edinburgh4 ,in ,scotland ,i visited every place where ,burns had lived1 from the cottage where he was born to the room where he died4 ,i followed him from the cradle to the coffin4 ,i went to ,stratford-upon-,avon for the purpose of seeing all that ,i could in any way connected with ,shakespeare2 next to ,london1 where we visited again all the places of interest1 and thence to ,paris1 where we spent a couple of weeks in the ,exposition4 ,question4 ,and what did you think of it8 ,answer4 ,so far as machinery--so far as the practical is concerned1 it is not equal to ours in ,philadelphia2 in art it is incomparably beyond it4 ,i was very much gratified to find so much evidence in favor of my theory that the golden age in art is in front of us2 that mankind has been advancing1 that we did not come from a perfect pair and immediately commence to degenerate4 ,the modern painters and sculptors are far better and grander than the ancient4 ,i think we excel in fine arts as much as we do in agricultural implements4 ,nothing pleased me more than the painting from ,holland1 because they idealized and rendered holy the ordinary avocations of life4 ,they paint cottages with sweet mothers and children2 they paint homes4 ,they are not much on ,ariadnes and ,venuses1 but they paint good women4 ,question4 ,what did you think of the ,american display8 ,answer4 ,our part of the ,exposition is good1 but nothing to what is should and might have been1 but we bring home nearly as many medals as we took things4 ,we lead the world in machinery and in ingenious inventions1 and some of our paintings were excellent4 ,question4 ,colonel1 crossing the ,atlantic back to ,america1 what do you think of the ,greenback movement8 ,answer4 ,in regard to the ,greenback party1 in the first place1 ,i am not a believer in miracles4 ,i do not believe that something can be made out of nothing4 ,the ,government1 in my judgment1 cannot create money2 the ,government can give its note1 like an individual1 and the prospect of its being paid determines its value4 ,we have already substantially resumed4 ,every piece of property that has been shrinking has simply been resuming4 ,we expended during the war--not for the useful1 but for the useless1 not to build up1 but to destroy--at least one thousand million dollars4 ,the ,government was an enormous purchaser2 when the war ceased the industries of the country lost their greatest customer4 ,as a consequence there was a surplus of production1 and consequently a surplus of labor4 ,at last we have gotten back1 and the country since the war has produced over and above the cost of production1 something near the amount that was lost during the war4 ,our exports are about two hundred million dollars more than our imports1 and this is a healthy sign4 ,there are1 however1 five or six hundred thousand men1 probably1 out of employment2 as prosperity increases this number will decrease4 ,i am in favor of the ,government doing something to ameliorate the condition of these men4 ,i would like to see constructed the ,northern and ,southern ,pacific railroads2 this would give employment at once to many thousands1 and homes after awhile to millions4 ,all the signs of the times to me are good4 ,the wretched bankrupt law1 at last1 is wiped from the statute books1 and honest people in a short time can get plenty of credit4 ,this law should have been repealed years before it was4 ,it would have been far better to have had all who have gone into bankruptcy during these frightful years to have done so at once4 ,question4 ,what will be the political effect of the ,greenback movement8 ,answer4 ,the effect in ,maine has been to defeat the ,republican party4 ,i do not believe any party can permanently succeed in the ,united ,states that does not believe in and advocate actual money4 ,i want to see the greenback equal with gold the world round4 ,a money below par keeps the people below par4 ,no man can possibly be proud of a country that is not willing to pay its debts4 ,several of the ,states this fall may be carried by the ,greenback party1 but if ,i have a correct understanding of their views1 that party cannot hold any ,state for any great length of time4 ,but all the men of wealth should remember that everybody in the community has got1 in some way1 to be supported4 ,i want to see them so that they can support themselves by their own labor4 ,in my judgment real prosperity will begin with actual resumption1 because confidence will then return4 ,if the workingmen of the ,united ,states cannot make their living1 cannot have the opportunity to labor1 they have got to be supported in some way1 and in any event1 ,i want to see a liberal policy inaugurated by the ,government4 ,i believe in improving rivers and harbors4 ,i do not believe the trans-continental commerce of this country should depend on one railroad4 ,i want new territories opened4 ,i want to see ,american steamships running to all the great ports of the world4 ,i want to see our flag flying on all the seas and in all the harbors4 ,we have the best country1 and1 in my judgment1 the best people in the world1 and we ought to be the most prosperous nation on the earth4 ,question4 ,then you only consider the ,greenback movement a temporary thing8 ,answer4 ,yes2 ,i do not believe that there is anything permanent in anything that is not sound1 that has not a perfectly sound foundation1 and ,i mean sound1 sound in every sense of that word4 ,it must be wise and honest4 ,we have plenty of money2 the trouble is to get it4 ,if the ,greenbackers will pass a law furnishing all of us with collaterals1 there certainly would be no trouble about getting the money4 ,nothing can demonstrate more fully the plentifulness of money than the fact that millions of four per cent4 bonds have been taken in the ,united ,states4 ,the trouble is1 business is scarce4 ,question4 ,but do you not think the ,greenback movement will help the ,democracy to success in #ahhj8 ,answer4 ,i think the ,greenback movement will injure the ,republican party much more than the ,democratic party4 ,whether that injury will reach as far as #ahhj depends simply upon one thing4 ,if resumption--in spite of all the resolutions to the contrary-- inaugurates an era of prosperity1 as ,i believe and hope it will1 then it seems to me that the ,republican party will be as strong in the ,north as in its palmiest days4 ,of course ,i regard most of the old issues as settled1 and ,i make this statement simply because ,i regard the financial issue as the only living one4 ,of course1 ,i have no idea who will be the ,democratic candidate1 but ,i suppose the ,south will be solid for the ,democratic nominee1 unless the financial question divides that section of the country4 ,question4 ,with a solid ,south do you not think the ,democratic nominee will stand a good chance8 ,answer4 ,certainly1 he will stand the best chance if the ,democracy is right on the financial question2 if it will cling to its old idea of hard money1 he will4 ,if the ,democrats will recognize that the issues of the war are settled1 then ,i think that party has the best chance4 ,question4 ,but if it clings to soft money8 ,answer4 ,then ,i think it will be beaten1 if by soft money it means the payment of one promise with another4 ,question4 ,you consider ,greenbackers inflationists1 do you not8 ,answer4 ,i suppose the ,greenbackers to be the party of inflation4 ,i am in favor of inflation produced by industry4 ,i am in favor of the country being inflated with corn1 with wheat1 good houses1 books1 pictures1 and plenty of labor for everybody4 ,i am in favor of being inflated with gold and silver1 but ,i do not believe in the inflation of promise1 expectation and speculation4 ,i sympathize with every man who is willing to work and cannot get it1 and ,i sympathize to that degree that ,i would like to see the fortunate and prosperous taxed to support his unfortunate brother until labor could be found4 ,the ,greenback party seems to think credit is just as good as gold4 ,while the credit lasts this is so2 but the trouble is1 whenever it is ascertained that the gold is gone or cannot be produced the credit takes wings4 ,the bill of a perfectly solvent bank may circulate for years4 ,now1 because nobody demands the gold on that bill it doesn't follow that the bill would be just as good without any gold behind it4 ,the idea that you can have the gold whenever you present the bill gives it its value4 ,to illustrate3 ,a poor man buys soup tickets4 ,he is not hungry at the time of purchase1 and will not be for some hours4 ,during those hours the ,greenback gentlemen argue that there is no use of keeping any soup on hand with which to redeem these tickets1 and from this they further argue that if they can be good for a few hours without soup1 why not forever8 ,and they would be1 only the holder gets hungry4 ,until he is hungry1 of course1 he does not care whether any soup is on hand or not1 but when he presents his ticket he wants his soup1 and the idea that he can have the soup when he does present the ticket gives it its value4 ,and so ,i regard bank notes1 without gold and silver1 as of the same value as tickets without soup4 --,the ,post1 ,washington1 ,d4 ,c41 #ahgh4 ,,the ,,pre-,,millennial ,,conference4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,pre-,millennial ,conference that was held in ,new ,york ,city recently8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i think that all who attended it were believers in the ,bible1 and any one who believes in prophecies and looks to their fulfillment will go insane4 ,a man that tries from ,daniel's ram with three horns and five tails and his deformed goats to ascertain the date of the second immigration of ,christ to this world is already insane4 ,it all shows that the moment we leave the realm of fact and law we are adrift on the wide and shoreless sea of theological speculation4 ,question4 ,do you think there will be a second coming8 ,answer4 ,no1 not as long as the church is in power4 ,christ will never again visit this earth until the ,freethinkers have control4 ,he will certainly never allow another church to get hold of him4 ,the very persons who met in ,new ,york to fix the date of his coming would despise him and the feeling would probably be mutual4 ,in his day ,christ was an ,infidel1 and made himself unpopular by denouncing the church as it then existed4 ,he called them liars1 hypocrites1 thieves1 vipers1 whited sepulchres and fools4 ,from the description given of the church in that day1 ,i am afraid that should he come again1 he would be provoked into using similar language4 ,of course1 ,i admit there are many good people in the church1 just as there were some good ,pharisees who were opposed to the crucifixion4 --,the ,express1 ,buffalo1 ,new ,york1 ,nov4 #dth1 #ahgh4 ,,the ,,solid ,,south ,,and ,,resumption4 ,question4 ,colonel1 to start with1 what do you think of the solid ,south8 ,answer4 ,i think the ,south is naturally opposed to the ,republican party2 more1 ,i imagine1 to the name1 than to the personnel of the organization4 ,but the ,south has just as good friends in the ,republican party as in the ,democratic party4 ,i do not think there are any ,republicans who would not rejoice to see the ,south prosperous and happy4 ,i know of none1 at least4 ,they will have to get over the prejudices born of isolation4 ,we lack direct and constant communication4 ,i do not recollect having seen a newspaper from the ,gulf ,states for a long time4 ,they1 down there1 may imagine that the feeling in the ,north is the same as during the war4 ,but it certainly is not4 ,the ,northern people are anxious to be friendly2 and if they can be1 without a violation of their principles1 they will be4 ,whether it be true or not1 however1 most of the ,republicans of the ,north believe that no ,republican in the ,south is heartily welcome in that section1 whether he goes there from the ,north1 or is a ,southern man4 ,personally1 ,i do not care anything about partisan politics4 ,i want to see every man in the ,united ,states guaranteed the right to express his choice at the ballot-box1 and ,i do not want social ostracism to follow a man1 no matter how he may vote4 ,a solid ,south means a solid ,north4 ,a hundred thousand ,democratic majority in ,south ,carolina means fifty thousand ,republican majority in ,new ,york in #ahhj4 ,i hope the sections will never divide1 simply as sections4 ,but if the ,republican party is not allowed to live in the ,south1 the ,democratic party certainly will not be allowed to succeed in the ,north4 ,i want to treat the people of the ,south precisely as though the ,rebellion had never occurred4 ,i want all that wiped from the slate of memory1 and all ,i ask of the ,southern people is to give the same rights to the ,republicans that we are willing to give to them and have given to them4 ,question4 ,how do you account for the results of the recent elections8 ,answer4 ,the ,republican party won the recent election simply because it was for honest money1 and it was in favor of resumption4 ,and if on the first of ,january next1 we resume all right1 and maintain resumption1 ,i see no reason why the ,republican party should not succeed in #ahhj4 ,the ,republican party came into power at the commencement of the ,rebellion1 and necessarily retained power until its close2 and in my judgment1 it will retain power so long as in the horizon of credit there is a cloud of repudiation as large as a man's hand4 ,question4 ,do you think resumption will work out all right8 ,answer4 ,i do4 ,i think that on the first of ,january the greenback will shake hands with gold on an equality1 and in a few days thereafter will be worth just a little bit more4 ,everything has resumed1 except the ,government4 ,all the property has resumed1 all the lands1 bonds and mortgages and stocks4 ,all these things resumed long ago--that is to say1 they have touched the bottom4 ,now1 there is no doubt that the party that insists on the ,government paying all its debts will hold control1 and no one will get his hand on the wheel who advocates repudiation in any form4 ,there is one thing we must do1 though4 ,we have got to put more silver in our dollars4 ,i do not think you can blame the ,new ,york banks--any bank --for refusing to take eighty-eight cents for a dollar4 ,neither can you blame any depositor who puts gold in the bank for demanding gold in return4 ,yes1 we must have in the silver dollar a dollar's worth of silver4 --,the ,commercial1 ,cincinnati1 ,ohio1 ,november1 #ahgh4 ,,the ,,sunday ,,laws ,,of ,,pittsburg499 ,question4 ,colonel1 what do you think of the course the ,mayor has pursued toward you in attempting to stop your lecture8 ,answer4 ,i know very little except what ,i have seen in the morning paper4 ,as a general rule1 laws should be enforced or repealed2 and so far as ,i am personally concerned1 ,i shall not so much complain of the enforcing of the law against ,sabbath breaking as of the fact that such a law exists4 ,we have fallen heir to these laws4 ,they were passed by superstition1 and the enlightened people of to-day should repeal them4 ,ministers should not expect to fill their churches by shutting up other places4 ,they can only increase their congregations by improving their sermons4 ,they will have more hearers when they say more worth hearing4 ,i have no idea that the ,mayor has any prejudice against me personally and if he only enforces the law1 ,i shall have none against him4 ,if my lectures were free the ministers might have the right to object1 but as ,i charge one dollar admission and they nothing1 they ought certainly be able to compete with me4 ,question4 ,don't you think it is the duty of the ,mayor1 as chief executive of the city laws1 to enforce the ordinances and pay no attention to what the statutes say8 ,answer4 ,i suppose it to be the duty of the ,mayor to enforce the ordinance of the city and if the ordinance of the city covers the same ground as the law of the ,state1 a conviction under the ordinance would be a bar to prosecution under the ,state law4 ,question4 ,if the ordinance exempts scientific1 literary and historical lectures1 as it is said it does1 will not that exempt you8 ,answer4 ,yes1 all my lectures are historical2 that is1 ,i speak of many things that have happened4 ,they are scientific because they are filled with facts1 and they are literary of course4 ,i can conceive of no address that is neither historical nor scientific1 except sermons4 ,they fail to be historical because they treat of things that never happened and they are certainly not scientific1 as they contain no facts4 ,question4 ,suppose they arrest you what will you do8 ,answer4 ,i will examine the law and if convicted will pay the fine1 unless ,i think ,i can reverse the case by appeal4 ,of course ,i would like to see all these foolish laws wiped from the statute books4 ,i want the law so that everybody can do just as he pleases on ,sunday1 provided he does not interfere with the rights of others4 ,i want the ,christian1 the ,jew1 the ,deist and the ,atheist to be exactly equal before the law4 ,i would fight for the right of the ,christian to worship ,god in his own way just as quick as ,i would for the ,atheist to enjoy music1 flowers and fields4 ,i hope to see the time when even the poor people can hear the music of the finest operas on ,sunday4 ,one grand opera with all its thrilling tones1 will do more good in touching and elevating the world than ten thousand sermons on the agonies of hell4 ,question4 ,have you ever been interfered with before in delivering ,sunday lectures8 ,answer4 ,no1 ,i postponed a lecture in ,baltimore at the request of the owners of a theatre because they were afraid some action might be taken4 ,that is the only case4 ,i have delivered lectures on ,sunday in the principal cities of the ,united ,states1 in ,new ,york1 ,boston1 ,buffalo1 ,chicago1 ,san ,francisco1 ,cincinnati and many other places4 ,i lectured here last winter2 it was on ,sunday and ,i heard nothing of its being contrary to law4 ,i always supposed my lectures were good enough to be delivered on the most sacred days4 --,the ,leader1 ,pittsburg1 ,pa41 ,october #bg1 #ahgi4 99 ,the manager of the theatre1 where ,col4 ,ingersoll lectured1 was fined fifty dollars which ,col4 ,ingersoll paid4 ,,political ,,and ,,religious4 ,question4 ,what do you think about the recent election1 and what will be its effect upon political matters and the issues and candidates of #ahhj8 ,answer4 ,i think the ,republicans have met with this almost universal success on account1 first1 of the position taken by the ,democracy on the currency question2 that is to say1 that party was divided1 and was willing to go in partnership with anybody1 whatever their doctrines might be1 for the sake of success in that particular locality4 ,the ,republican party felt it of paramount importance not only to pay the debt1 but to pay it in that which the world regards as money4 ,the next reason for the victory is the position assumed by the ,democracy in ,congress during the called session4 ,the threats they then made of what they would do in the event that the executive did not comply with their demands1 showed that the spirit of the party had not been chastened to any considerable extent by the late war4 ,the people of this country will not1 in my judgment1 allow the ,south to take charge of this country until they show their ability to protect the rights of citizens in their respective ,states4 ,question4 ,then1 as you regard the victories1 they are largely due to a firm adherence to principle1 and the failure of the ,democratic party is due to their abandonment of principle1 and their desire to unite with anybody and everything1 at the sacrifice of principle1 to attain success8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,the ,democratic party is a general desire for office without organization4 ,most people are ,democrats because they hate something1 most people are ,republicans because they love something4 ,question4 ,do you think the election has brought about any particular change in the issues that will be involved in the campaign of #ahhj8 ,answer4 ,i think the only issue is who shall rule the country4 ,question4 ,do you think1 then1 the question of ,state ,rights1 hard or soft money and other questions that have been prominent in the campaign are practically settled1 and so regarded by the people8 ,answer4 ,i think the money question is1 absolutely4 ,i think the question of ,state ,rights is dead1 except that it can still be used to defeat the ,democracy4 ,it is what might be called a convenient political corpse4 ,question4 ,now1 to leave the political field and go to the religious at one jump--since your last visit here much has been said and written and published to the effect that a great change1 or a considerable change at least1 had taken place in your religious1 or irreligious views4 ,i would like to know if that is so8 ,answer4 ,the only change that has occurred in my religious views is the result of finding more and more arguments in favor of my position1 and1 as a consequence1 if there is any difference1 ,i am stronger in my convictions than ever before4 ,question4 ,i would like to know something of the history of your religious views8 ,answer4 ,i may say right here that the ,christian idea that any ,god can make me his friend by killing mine is about a great mistake as could be made4 ,they seem to have the idea that just as soon as ,god kills all the people that a person loves1 he will then begin to love the ,lord4 ,what drew my attention first to these questions was the doctrine of eternal punishment4 ,this was so abhorrent to my mind that ,i began to hate the book in which it was taught4 ,then1 in reading law1 going back to find the origin of laws1 ,i found one had to go but a little way before the legislator and priest united4 ,this led me to a study of a good many of the religions of the world4 ,at first ,i was greatly astonished to find most of them better than ours4 ,i then studied our own system to the best of my ability1 and found that people were palming off upon children and upon one another as the inspired word of ,god a book that upheld slavery1 polygamy and almost every other crime4 ,whether ,i am right or wrong1 ,i became convinced that the ,bible is not an inspired book2 and then the only question for me to settle was as to whether ,i should say what ,i believed or not4 ,this really was not the question in my mind1 because1 before even thinking of such a question1 ,i expressed my belief1 and ,i simply claim that right and expect to exercise it as long as ,i live4 ,i may be damned for it in the next world1 but it is a great source of pleasure to me in this4 ,question4 ,it is reported that you are the son of a ,presbyterian minister8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i am the son of a ,new ,school ,presbyterian minister4 ,question4 ,about what age were you when you began this investigation which led to your present convictions8 ,answer4 ,i cannot remember when ,i believed the ,bible doctrine of eternal punishment4 ,i have a dim recollection of hating ,jehovah when ,i was exceedingly small4 ,question4 ,then your present convictions began to form themselves while you were listening to the teachings of religion as taught by your father8 ,answer4 ,yes1 they did4 ,question4 ,did you discuss the matter with him8 ,answer4 ,i did for many years1 and before he died he utterly gave up the idea that this life is a period of probation4 ,he utterly gave up the idea of eternal punishment1 and before he died he had the happiness of believing that ,god was almost as good and generous as he was himself4 ,question4 ,i suppose this gossip about a change in your religious views arose or was created by the expression used at your brother's funeral1 ,in the night of death hope sees a star and listening love can hear the rustle of a wing8 ,answer4 ,i never willingly will destroy a solitary human hope4 ,i have always said that ,i did not know whether man was or was not immortal1 but years before my brother died1 in a lecture entitled ,the ,ghosts1 which has since been published1 ,i used the following words3 ,the idea of immortality1 that like a sea has ebbed and flowed in the human heart1 with its countless waves of hope and fear1 beating against the shores and rocks of time and fate1 was not born of any book1 nor of any creed1 nor of any religion4 ,it was born of human affection1 and it will continue to ebb and flow beneath the mists and clouds of doubt and darkness as long as love kisses the lips of death4 ,it is the rainbow--,hope1 shining upon the tears of grief4 ,question4 ,the great objection to your teaching urged by your enemies is that you constantly tear down1 and never build up8 ,answer4 ,i have just published a little book entitled1 ,some ,mistakes of ,moses1 in which ,i have endeavored to give most of the arguments ,i have urged against the ,pentateuch in a lecture ,i delivered under that title4 ,the motto on the title page is1 ,a destroyer of weeds1 thistles and thorns is a benefactor1 whether he soweth grain or not4 ,i cannot for my life see why one should be charged with tearing down and not rebuilding simply because he exposes a sham1 or detects a lie4 ,i do not feel under any obligation to build something in the place of a detected falsehood4 ,all ,i think ,i am under obligation to put in the place of a detected lie is the detection4 ,most religionists talk as if mistakes were valuable things and they did not wish to part with them without a consideration4 ,just how much they regard lies worth a dozen ,i do not know4 ,if the price is reasonable ,i am perfectly willing to give it1 rather than to see them live and give their lives to the defence of delusions4 ,i am firmly convinced that to be happy here will not in the least detract from our happiness in another world should we be so fortunate as to reach another world2 and ,i cannot see the value of any philosophy that reaches beyond the intelligent happiness of the present4 ,there may be a ,god who will make us happy in another world4 ,if he does1 it will be more than he has accomplished in this4 ,i suppose that he will never have more than infinite power and never have less than infinite wisdom1 and why people should expect that he should do better in another world than he has in this is something that ,i have never been able to explain4 ,a being who has the power to prevent it and yet who allows thousands and millions of his children to starve2 who devours them with earthquakes2 who allows whole nations to be enslaved1 cannot in my judgment be implicitly be depended upon to do justice in another world4 ,question4 ,how do the clergy generally treat you8 ,answer4 ,well1 of course there are the same distinctions among clergymen as among other people4 ,some of them are quite respectable gentlemen1 especially those with whom ,i am not acquainted4 ,i think that since the loss of my brother nothing could exceed the heartlessness of the remarks made by the average clergyman4 ,there have been some noble exceptions1 to whom ,i feel not only thankful but grateful2 but a very large majority have taken this occasion to say most unfeeling and brutal things4 ,i do not ask the clergy to forgive me1 but ,i do request that they will so act that ,i will not have to forgive them4 ,i have always insisted that those who love their enemies should at least tell the truth about their friends1 but ,i suppose1 after all1 that religion must be supported by the same means as those by which it was founded4 ,of course1 there are thousands of good ministers1 men who are endeavoring to make the world better1 and whose failure is no particular fault of their own4 ,i have always been in doubt as to whether the clergy were a necessary or an unnecessary evil4 ,question4 ,i would like to have a positive expression of your views as to a future state8 ,answer4 ,somebody asked ,confucius about another world1 and his reply was3 ,how should ,i know anything about another world when ,i know so little of this8 ,for my part1 ,i know nothing of any other state of existence1 either before or after this1 and ,i have never become personally acquainted with anybody that did4 ,there may be another life1 and if there is1 the best way to prepare for it is by making somebody happy in this4 ,god certainly cannot afford to put a man in hell who has made a little heaven in this world4 ,i propose simply to take my chances with the rest of the folks1 and prepare to go where the people ,i am best acquainted with will probably settle4 ,i cannot afford to leave the great ship and sneak off to shore in some orthodox canoe4 ,i hope there is another life1 for ,i would like to see how things come out in the world when ,i am dead4 ,there are some people ,i would like to see again1 and hope there are some who would not object to seeing me2 but if there is no other life ,i shall never know it4 ,i do not remember a time when ,i did not exist2 and if1 when ,i die1 that is the end1 ,i shall not know it1 because the last thing ,i shall know is that ,i am alive1 and if nothing is left1 nothing will be left to know that ,i am dead2 so that so far as ,i am concerned ,i am immortal2 that is to say1 ,i cannot recollect when ,i did not exist1 and there never will be a time when ,i shall remember that ,i do not exist4 ,i would like to have several millions of dollars1 and ,i may say that ,i have a lively hope that some day ,i may be rich1 but to tell you the truth ,i have very little evidence of it4 ,our hope of immortality does not come from any religion1 but nearly all religions come from that hope4 ,the ,old ,testament1 instead of telling us that we are immortal1 tells us how we lost immortality4 ,you will recollect that if ,adam and ,eve could have gotten to the ,tree of ,life1 they would have eaten of its fruit and would have lived forever2 but for the purpose of preventing immortality ,god turned them out of the ,garden of ,eden1 and put certain angels with swords or sabres at the gate to keep them from getting back4 ,the ,old ,testament proves1 if it proves anything--which ,i do not think it does--that there is no life after this2 and the ,new ,testament is not very specific on the subject4 ,there were a great many opportunities for the ,saviour and his apostles to tell us about another world1 but they did not improve them to any great extent2 and the only evidence1 so far as ,i know1 about another life is1 first1 that we have no evidence2 and1 secondly1 that we are rather sorry that we have not1 and wish we had4 ,that is about my position4 ,question4 ,according to your observation of men1 and your reading in relation to the men and women of the world and of the church1 if there is another world divided according to orthodox principles between the orthodox and heterodox1 which of the two that are known as heaven and hell would contain1 in your judgment1 the most good society8 ,answer4 ,since hanging has got to be a means of grace1 ,i would prefer hell4 ,i had a thousand times rather associate with the ,pagan philosophers than with the inquisitors of the ,middle ,ages4 ,i certainly should prefer the worst man in ,greek or ,roman history to ,john ,calvin2 and ,i can imagine no man in the world that ,i would not rather sit on the same bench with than the ,puritan fathers and the founders of orthodox churches4 ,i would trade off my harp any minute for a seat in the other country4 ,all the poets will be in perdition1 and the greatest thinkers1 and1 ,i should think1 most of the women whose society would tend to increase the happiness of man2 nearly all the painters1 nearly all the sculptors1 nearly all the writers of plays1 nearly all the great actors1 most of the best musicians1 and nearly all the good fellows--the persons who know stories1 who can sing songs1 or who will loan a friend a dollar4 ,they will mostly all be in that country1 and if ,i did not live there permanently1 ,i certainly would want it so ,i could spend my winter months there4 ,but1 after all1 what ,i really want to do is to destroy the idea of eternal punishment4 ,that doctrine subverts all ideas of justice4 ,that doctrine fills hell with honest men1 and heaven with intellectual and moral paupers4 ,that doctrine allows people to sin on credit4 ,that doctrine allows the basest to be eternally happy and the most honorable to suffer eternal pain4 ,i think of all doctrines it is the most infinitely infamous1 and would disgrace the lowest savage2 and any man who believes it1 and has imagination enough to understand it1 has the heart of a serpent and the conscience of a hyena4 ,question4 ,your objective point is to destroy the doctrine of hell1 is it8 ,answer4 ,yes1 because the destruction of that doctrine will do away with all cant and all pretence4 ,it will do away with all religious bigotry and persecution4 ,it will allow every man to think and to express his thought4 ,it will do away with bigotry in all its slimy and offensive forms4 --,chicago ,tribune1 ,november #ad1 #ahgi4 ,,politics ,,and ,,gen4 ,,grant ,question4 ,some people have made comparisons between the late ,senators ,o4 ,p4 ,morton and ,zach4 ,chandler4 ,what did you think of them1 ,colonel8 ,answer4 ,i think ,morton had the best intellectual grasp of a question of any man ,i ever saw4 ,there was an infinite difference between the two men4 ,morton's strength lay in proving a thing2 ,chandler's in asserting it4 ,but ,chandler was a strong man and no hypocrite4 ,question4 ,have you any objection to being interviewed as to your ideas of ,grant1 and his position before the people8 ,answer4 ,i have no reason for withholding my views on that or any other subject that is under public discussion4 ,my idea is that ,grant can afford to regard the presidency as a broken toy4 ,it would add nothing to his fame if he were again elected1 and would add nothing to the debt of gratitude which the people feel they owe him4 ,i do not think he will be a candidate4 ,i do not think he wants it4 ,there are men who are pushing him on their own account4 ,grant was a great soldier4 ,he won the respect of the civilized world4 ,he commanded the largest army that ever fought for freedom1 and to make him ,president would not add a solitary leaf to the wreath of fame already on his brow2 and should he be elected1 the only thing he could do would be to keep the old wreath from fading4 ,i do not think his reputation can ever be as great in any direction as in the direction of war4 ,he has made his reputation and has lived his great life4 ,i regard him1 confessedly1 as the best soldier the ,anglo-,saxon blood has produced4 ,i do not know that it necessarily follows because he is a great soldier he is great in other directions4 ,probably some of the greatest statesmen in the world would have been the worst soldiers4 ,question4 ,do you regard him as more popular now than ever before8 ,answer4 ,i think that his reputation is certainly greater and higher than when he left the presidency1 and mainly because he has represented this country with so much discretion and with such quiet1 poised dignity all around the world4 ,he has measured himself with kings1 and was able to look over the heads of every one of them4 ,they were not quite as tall as he was1 even adding the crown to their original height4 ,i think he represented us abroad with wonderful success4 ,one thing that touched me very much was1 that at a reception given him by the workingmen of ,birmingham1 after he had been received by royalty1 he had the courage to say that that reception gave him more pleasure than any other4 ,he has been throughout perfectly true to the genius of our institutions1 and has not upon any occasion exhibited the slightest toadyism4 ,grant is a man who is not greatly affected by either flattery or abuse4 ,question4 ,what do you believe to be his position in regard to the presidency8 ,answer4 ,my own judgment is that he does not care4 ,i do not think he has any enemies to punish1 and ,i think that while he was ,president he certainly rewarded most of his friends4 ,question4 ,what are your views as to a third term8 ,answer4 ,i have no objection to a third term on principle1 but so many men want the presidency that it seems almost cruel to give a third term to anyone4 ,question4 ,then1 if there is no objection to a third term1 what about a fourth8 ,answer4 ,i do not know that that could be objected to1 either4 ,we have to admit1 after all1 that the ,american people1 or at least a majority of them1 have a right to elect one man as often as they please4 ,personally1 ,i think it should not be done unless in the case of a man who is prominent above the rest of his fellow-citizens1 and whose election appears absolutely necessary4 ,but ,i frankly confess ,i cannot conceive of any political situation where one man is a necessity4 ,i do not believe in the one-man-on-horseback idea1 because ,i believe in all the people being on horseback4 ,question4 ,what will be the effect of the enthusiastic receptions that are being given to ,general ,grant8 ,answer4 ,i think these ovations show that the people are resolved not to lose the results of the great victories of the war1 and that they make known this determination by their attention to ,general ,grant4 ,i think that if he goes through the principal cities of this country the old spirit will be revived everywhere1 and whether it makes him ,president or not the result will be to make the election go ,republican4 ,the revival of the memories of the war will bring the people of the ,north together as closely as at any time since that great conflict closed1 not in the spirit of hatred1 or malice or envy1 but in generous emulation to preserve that which was fairly won4 ,i do not think there is any hatred about it1 but we are beginning to see that we must save the ,south ourselves1 and that that is the only way we can save the nation4 ,question4 ,but suppose they give the same receptions in the ,south8 ,answer4 ,so much the better4 ,question4 ,is there any split in the solid ,south8 ,answer4 ,some of the very best people in the ,south are apparently disgusted with following the ,democracy any longer1 and would hail with delight any opportunity they could reasonably take advantage of to leave the organization1 if they could do so without making it appear that they were going back on ,southern interests1 and this opportunity will come when the ,south becomes enlightened1 and sees that it has no interests except in common with the whole country4 ,that ,i think they are beginning to see4 ,question4 ,how do you like the administration of ,president ,hayes8 ,answer4 ,i think its attitude has greatly improved of late4 ,there are certain games of cards--pedro1 for instance1 where you can not only fail to make something1 but be set back4 ,i think that ,hayes's veto messages very nearly got him back to the commencement of the game--that he is now almost ready to commence counting1 and make some points4 ,his position before the country has greatly improved1 but he will not develop into a dark horse4 ,my preference is1 of course1 still for ,blaine4 ,question4 ,where do you think it is necessary the ,republican candidate should come from to insure success8 ,answer4 ,somewhere out of ,ohio4 ,i think it will go to ,maine1 and for this reason3 ,first of all1 ,blaine is certainly a competent man of affairs1 a man who knows what to do at the time2 and then he has acted in such a chivalric way ever since the convention at ,cincinnati1 that those who opposed him most bitterly1 now have for him nothing but admiration4 ,i think ,john ,sherman is a man of decided ability1 but ,i do not believe the ,american people would make one brother ,president1 while the other is ,general of the ,army4 ,it would be giving too much power to one family4 ,question4 ,what are your conclusions as to the future of the ,democratic party8 ,answer4 ,i think the ,democratic party ought to disband4 ,i think they would be a great deal stronger disbanded1 because they would get rid of their reputation without decreasing4 ,question4 ,but if they will not disband8 ,answer4 ,then the next campaign depends undoubtedly upon ,new ,york and ,indiana4 ,i do not see how they can very well help nominating a man from ,indiana1 and by that ,i mean ,hendricks4 ,you see the ,south has one hundred and thirty-eight votes1 all supposed to be ,democratic2 with the thirty-five from ,new ,york and fifteen from ,indiana they would have just three to spare4 ,now1 ,i take it1 that the fifteen from ,indiana are just about as essential as the thirty- five from ,new ,york4 ,to lack fifteen votes is nearly as bad as being thirty-five short1 and so far as drawing salary is concerned it is quite as bad4 ,mr4 ,hendricks ought to know that he holds the key to ,indiana1 and that there cannot be any possibility of carrying this ,state for ,democracy without him4 ,he has tried running for the vice-presidency1 which is not much of a place anyhow--,i would about as soon be vice-mother-in-law--and my judgment is that he knows exactly the value of his geographical position4 ,new ,york is divided to that degree that it would be unsafe to take a candidate from that ,state2 and besides1 ,new ,york has become famous for furnishing defeated candidates for the ,democracy4 ,i think the man must come from ,indiana4 ,question4 ,would the ,democracy of ,new ,york unite on ,seymour8 ,answer4 ,you recollect what ,lincoln said about the powder that had been shot off once4 ,i do not remember any man who has once made a race for the presidency and been defeated ever being again nominated4 ,question4 ,what about ,bayard and ,hancock as candidates8 ,answer4 ,i do not see how ,bayard could possibly carry ,indiana1 while his own ,state is too small and too solidly ,democratic4 ,my idea of ,bayard is that he has not been good enough to be popular1 and not bad enough to be famous4 ,the ,american people will never elect a ,president from a ,state with a whipping-post4 ,as to ,general ,hancock1 you may set it down as certain that the ,south will never lend their aid to elect a man who helped to put down the ,rebellion4 ,it would be just the same as the effort to elect ,greeley4 ,it cannot be done4 ,i see1 by the way1 that ,i am reported as having said that ,david ,davis1 as the ,democratic candidate1 could carry ,illinois4 ,i did say that in #ahgf1 he could have carried it against ,hayes2 but whether he could carry ,illinois in #ahhj would depend altogether upon who runs against him4 ,the condition of things has changed greatly in our favor since #ahgf4 --,the ,journal1 ,indianapolis1 ,ind41 ,november1 #ahgi4 ,,politics1 ,,religion ,,and ,,thomas ,,paine4 ,question4 ,you have traveled about this ,state more or less1 lately1 and have1 of course1 observed political affairs here4 ,do you think that ,senator ,logan will be able to deliver this ,state to the ,grant movement according to the understood plan8 ,answer4 ,if the ,state is really for ,grant1 he will1 and if it is not1 he will not4 ,illinois is as little owned as any ,state in this ,union4 ,illinois would naturally be for ,grant1 other things being equal1 because he is regarded as a citizen of this ,state1 and it is very hard for a ,state to give up the patronage naturally growing out of the fact that the ,president comes from that ,state4 ,question4 ,will the instructions given to delegates be final8 ,answer4 ,i do not think they will be considered final at all2 neither do ,i think they will be considered of any force4 ,it was decided at the last convention1 in ,cincinnati1 that the delegates had a right to vote as they pleased2 that each delegate represented the district of the ,state that sent him4 ,the idea that a ,state convention can instruct them as against the wishes of their constituents smacks a little too much of ,state sovereignty4 ,the ,president should be nominated by the districts of the whole country1 and not by massing the votes by a little chicanery at a ,state convention1 and every delegate ought to vote what he really believes to be the sentiment of his constituents1 irrespective of what the ,state convention may order him to do4 ,he is not responsible to the ,state convention1 and it is none of the ,state convention's business4 ,this does not apply1 it may be1 to the delegates at large1 but to all the others it certainly must apply4 ,it was so decided at the ,cincinnati convention1 and decided on a question arising about this same ,pennsylvania delegation4 ,question4 ,can you guess as to what the platform in going to contain8 ,answer4 ,i suppose it will be a substantial copy of the old one4 ,i am satisfied with the old one with one addition4 ,i want a plank to the effect that no man shall be deprived of any civil or political right on account of his religious or irreligious opinions4 ,the ,republican party having been foremost in freeing the body ought to do just a little something now for the mind4 ,after having wasted rivers of blood and treasure uncounted1 and almost uncountable1 to free the cage1 ,i propose that something ought to be done for the bird4 ,every decent man in the ,united ,states would support that plank4 ,people should have a right to testify in courts1 whatever their opinions may be1 on any subject4 ,justice should not shut any door leading to truth1 and as long as just views neither affect a man's eyesight or his memory1 he should be allowed to tell his story4 ,and there are two sides to this question1 too4 ,the man is not only deprived of his testimony1 but the commonwealth is deprived of it4 ,there should be no religious test in this country for office2 and if ,jehovah cannot support his religion without going into partnership with a ,state ,legislature1 ,i think he ought to give it up4 ,question4 ,is there anything new about religion since you were last here8 ,answer4 ,since ,i was here ,i have spoken in a great many cities1 and to-morrow ,i am going to do some missionary work at ,milwaukee4 ,many who have come to scoff have remained to pray1 and ,i think that my labors are being greatly blessed1 and all attacks on me so far have been overruled for good4 ,i happened to come in contact with a revival of religion1 and ,i believe what they call an outpouring at ,detroit1 under the leadership of a gentleman by the name of ,pentecost4 ,he denounced me as ,god's greatest enemy4 ,i had always supposed that the ,devil occupied that exalted position1 but it seems that ,i have1 in some way1 fallen heir to his shoes4 ,mr4 ,pentecost also denounced all business men who would allow any advertisements or lithographs of mine to hang in their places of business1 and several of these gentlemen thus appealed to took the advertisements away4 ,the result of all this was that ,i had the largest house that ever attended a lecture in ,detroit4 ,feeling that ingratitude is a crime1 ,i publicly returned thanks to the clergy for the pains they had taken to give me an audience4 ,and ,i may say1 in this connection1 that if the ministers do ,god as little good as they do me harm1 they had better let both of us alone4 ,i regard them as very good1 but exceedingly mistaken men4 ,they do not come much in contact with the world1 and get most of their views by talking with the women and children of their congregations4 ,they are not permitted to mingle freely with society4 ,they cannot attend plays nor hear operas4 ,i believe some of them have ventured to minstrel shows and menageries1 where they confine themselves strictly to the animal part of the entertainment4 ,but1 as a rule1 they have very few opportunities of ascertaining what the real public opinion is4 ,they read religious papers1 edited by gentlemen who know as little about the world as themselves1 and the result of all this is that they are rather behind the times4 ,they are good men1 and would like to do right if they only knew it1 but they are a little behind the times4 ,there is an old story told of a fellow who had a post-office in a small town in ,north ,carolina1 and he being the only man in the town who could read1 a few people used to gather in the post-office on ,sunday1 and he would read to them a weekly paper that was published in ,washington4 ,he commenced always at the top of the first column and read right straight through1 articles1 advertisements1 and all1 and whenever they got a little tired of reading he would make a mark of red ochre and commence at that place the next ,sunday4 ,the result was that the papers came a great deal faster than he read them1 and it was about #ahag when they struck the war of #ahab4 ,the moment they got to that1 every one of them jumped up and offered to volunteer4 ,all of which shows that they were patriotic people1 but a little show1 and somewhat behind the times4 ,question4 ,how were you pleased with the ,paine meeting here1 and its results8 ,answer4 ,i was gratified to see so many people willing at last to do justice to a great and a maligned man4 ,of course ,i do not claim that ,paine was perfect4 ,all ,i claim is that he was a patriot and a political philosopher2 that he was a revolutionist and an agitator2 that he was infinitely full of suggestive thought1 and that he did more than any man to convince the people of ,american not only that they ought to separate from ,great ,britain1 but that they ought to found a representative government4 ,he has been despised simply because he did not believe the ,bible4 ,i wish to do what ,i can to rescue his name from theological defamation4 ,i think the day has come when ,thomas ,paine will be remembered with ,washington1 ,franklin and ,jefferson1 and that the ,american people will wonder that their fathers could have been guilty of such base ingratitude4 --,chicago ,times1 ,february #h1 #ahhj4 ,,reply ,,to ,,chicago ,,critics4 ,question4 ,have you read the replies of the clergy to your recent lecture in this city on ,what ,must we do to be ,saved8 and if so what do you think of them8 ,answer4 ,i think they dodge the point4 ,the real point is this3 ,if salvation by faith is the real doctrine of ,christianity1 ,i asked on ,sunday before last1 and ,i still ask1 why didn't ,matthew tell it8 ,i still insist that ,mark should have remembered it1 and ,i shall always believe that ,luke ought1 at least1 to have noticed it4 ,i was endeavoring to show that modern ,christianity has for its basis an interpolation4 ,i think ,i showed it4 ,the only gospel on the orthodox side is that of ,john1 and that was certainly not written1 or did not appear in its present form1 until long after the others were written4 ,i know very well that the ,catholic ,church claimed during the ,dark ,ages1 and still claims1 that references had been made to the gospels by persons living in the first1 second1 and third centuries2 but ,i believe such manuscripts were manufactured by the ,catholic ,church4 ,for many years in ,europe there was not one person in twenty thousand who could read and write4 ,during that time the church had in its keeping the literature of our world4 ,they interpolated as they pleased4 ,they created4 ,they destroyed4 ,in other words1 they did whatever in their opinion was necessary to substantiate the faith4 ,the gentlemen who saw fit to reply did not answer the question1 and ,i again call upon the clergy to explain to the people why1 if salvation depends upon belief on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ1 ,matthew didn't mention it4 ,some one has said that ,christ didn't make known this doctrine of salvation by belief or faith until after his resurrection4 ,certainly none of the gospels were written until after his resurrection2 and if he made that doctrine known after his resurrection1 and before his ascension1 it should have been in ,matthew1 ,mark1 and ,luke1 as well as in ,john4 ,the replies of the clergy show that they have not investigated the subject2 that they are not well acquainted with the ,new ,testament4 ,in other words1 they have not read it except with the regulation theological bias4 ,there is one thing ,i wish to correct here4 ,in an editorial in the ,tribune it was stated that ,i had admitted that ,christ was beyond and above ,buddha1 ,zoroaster1 ,confucius1 and others4 ,i did not say so4 ,another point was made against me1 and those who made it seemed to think it was a good one4 ,in my lecture ,i asked why it was that the disciples of ,christ wrote in ,greek1 whereas1 if fact1 they understood only ,hebrew4 ,it is now claimed that ,greek was the language of ,jerusalem at that time2 that ,hebrew had fallen into disuse2 that no one understood it except the literati and the highly educated4 ,if ,i fell into an error upon this point it was because ,i relied upon the ,new ,testament4 ,i find in the twenty-first chapter of the ,acts an account of ,paul having been mobbed in the city of ,jerusalem2 that he was protected by a chief captain and some soldiers2 that1 while upon the stairs of the castle to which he was being taken for protection1 he obtained leave from the captain to speak unto the people4 ,in the fortieth verse of that chapter ,i find the following3 ,and when he had given him license1 ,paul stood on the stairs and beckoned with the hand unto the people4 ,and when there was made a great silence1 he spake unto them in the ,hebrew tongue1 saying1 ,and then follows the speech of ,paul1 wherein he gives an account of his conversion4 ,it seems a little curious to me that ,paul1 for the purpose of quieting a mob1 would speak to that mob in an unknown language4 ,if ,i were mobbed in the city of ,chicago1 and wished to defend myself with an explanation1 ,i certainly would not make that explanation in ,choctaw1 even if ,i understood that tongue4 ,my present opinion is that ,i would speak in ,english2 and the reason ,i would speak in ,english is because that language is generally understood in this city1 and so ,i conclude from the account in the twenty-first chapter of the ,acts that ,hebrew was the language of ,jerusalem at that time1 or ,paul would not have addressed the mob in that tongue4 ,question4 ,did you read ,mr4 ,courtney's answer8 ,answer4 ,i read what ,mr4 ,courtney read from others1 and think some of his quotations very good2 and have no doubt that the authors will feel complimented by being quoted4 ,there certainly is no need of my answering ,dr4 ,courtney2 sometime ,i may answer the ,french gentlemen from whom he quoted4 ,question4 ,but what about there being belief in ,matthew8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,courtney says that certain people were cured of diseases on account of faith4 ,admitting that mumps1 measles1 and whooping-cough could be cured in that way1 there is not even a suggestion that salvation depended upon a like faith4 ,i think he can hardly afford to rely upon the miracles of the ,new ,testament to prove his doctrine4 ,there is one instance in which a miracle was performed by ,christ without his knowledge2 and ,i hardly think that even ,mr4 ,courtney would insist that any faith could have been great enough for that4 ,the fact is1 ,i believe that all these miracles were ascribed to ,christ long after his death1 and that ,christ never1 at any time or place1 pretended to have any supernatural power whatever4 ,neither do ,i believe that he claimed any supernatural origin4 ,he claimed simply to be a man2 no less1 no more4 ,i do not believe ,mr4 ,courtney is satisfied with his own reply4 ,question4 ,and now as to ,prof4 ,swing8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,swing has been out of the orthodox church so long that he seems to have forgotten the reasons for which he left it4 ,i do not believe there is an orthodox minister in the city of ,chicago who will agree with ,mr4 ,swing that salvation by faith is no longer preached4 ,prof4 ,swing seems to think it of no importance who wrote the gospel of ,matthew4 ,in this ,i agree with him4 ,judging from what he said there is hardly difference enough of opinion between us to justify a reply on his part4 ,he1 however1 makes one mistake4 ,i did not in the lecture say one word about tearing down churches4 ,i have no objection to people building all the churches they wish4 ,while ,i admit it is a pretty sight to see children on a morning in ,june going through the fields to the country church1 ,i still insist that the beauty of that sight does not answer the question how it is that ,matthew forgot to say anything about salvation through ,christ4 ,prof4 ,swing is a man of poetic temperament1 but this is not a poetic question4 ,question4 ,how did the card of ,dr4 ,thomas strike you8 ,answer4 ,i think the reply of ,dr4 ,thomas is in the best possible spirit4 ,i regard him to-day as the best intellect in the ,methodist denomination4 ,he seems to have what is generally understood as a ,christian spirit4 ,he has always treated me with perfect fairness1 and ,i should have said long ago many grateful things1 had ,i not feared ,i might hurt him with his own people4 ,he seems to be by nature a perfectly fair man2 and ,i know of no man in the ,united ,states for whom ,i have a profounder respect4 ,of course1 ,i don't agree with ,dr4 ,thomas4 ,i think in many things he is mistaken4 ,but ,i believe him to be perfectly sincere4 ,there is one trouble about him--he is growing2 and this fact will no doubt give great trouble to many of his brethren4 ,certain ,methodist hazel-brush feel a little uneasy in the shadow of this oak4 ,to see the difference between him and some others1 all that is necessary is to read his reply1 and then read the remarks made at the ,methodist ministers' meeting on the ,monday following4 ,compared with ,dr4 ,thomas1 they are as puddles by the sea4 ,there is the same difference that there is between sewers and rivers1 cesspools and springs4 ,question4 ,what have you to say to the remarks of the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,jewett before the ,methodist ministers' meeting8 ,answer4 ,i think ,dr4 ,jewett is extremely foolish4 ,i did not say that ,i would commence suit against a minister for libel4 ,i can hardly conceive of a proceeding that would be less liable to produce a dividend4 ,the fact about it is1 that the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,jewett seems to think anything true that he hears against me4 ,mr4 ,jewett is probably ashamed of what he said by this time4 ,he must have known it to be entirely false4 ,it seems to me by this time even the most bigoted should lose their confidence in falsehood4 ,of course there are times when a falsehood well told bridges over quite a difficulty1 but in the long run you had better tell the truth1 even if you swim the creek4 ,i am astonished that these ministers were willing to exhibit their wounds to the world4 ,i supposed of course ,i would hit some1 but ,i had no idea of wounding so many4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,crafts stated that you were in the habit of swearing in company and before your family8 ,answer4 ,i often swear4 ,in other words1 ,i take the name of ,god in vain2 that is to say1 ,i take it without any practical thing resulting from it1 and in that sense ,i think most ministers are guilty of the same thing4 ,i heard an old story of a clergyman who rebuked a neighbor for swearing1 to whom the neighbor replied1 ,you pray and ,i swear1 but as a matter of fact neither of us means anything by it4 ,as to the charge that ,i am in the habit of using indecent language in my family1 no reply is needed4 ,i am willing to leave that question to the people who know us both4 ,mr4 ,crafts says he was told this by a lady4 ,this cannot by any possibility be true1 for no lady will tell a falsehood4 ,besides1 if this woman of whom he speaks was a lady1 how did she happen to stay where obscene language was being used8 ,no lady ever told ,mr4 ,crafts any such thing4 ,it may be that a lady did tell him that ,i used profane language4 ,i admit that ,i have not always spoken of the ,devil in a respectful way2 that ,i have sometimes referred to his residence when it was not a necessary part of the conversation1 and that a divers times ,i have used a good deal of the terminology of the theologian when the exact words of the scientist might have done as well4 ,but if by swearing is meant the use of ,god's name in vain1 there are very few preachers who do not swear more than ,i do1 if by in vain is meant without any practical result4 ,i leave ,mr4 ,crafts to cultivate the acquaintance of the unknown lady1 knowing as ,i do1 that after they have talked this matter over again they will find that both have been mistaken4 ,i sincerely regret that clergymen who really believe that an infinite ,god is on their side think it necessary to resort to such things to defeat one man4 ,according to their idea1 ,god is against me1 and they ought to have confidence in this infinite wisdom and strength to suppose that he could dispose of one man1 even if they failed to say a word against me4 ,had you not asked me ,i should have said nothing to you on these topics4 ,such charges cannot hurt me4 ,i do not believe it possible for such men to injure me4 ,no one believes what they say1 and the testimony of such clergymen against an ,infidel is no longer considered of value4 ,i believe it was ,goethe who said1 ,i always know that ,i am traveling when ,i hear the dogs bark4 ,question4 ,are you going to make a formal reply to their sermons8 ,answer4 ,not unless something better is done than has been4 ,of course1 ,i don't know what another ,sabbath may bring forth4 ,i am waiting4 ,but of one thing ,i feel perfectly assured2 that no man in the ,united ,states1 or in the world1 can account for the fact1 if we are to be saved only by faith in ,christ1 that ,matthew forgot it1 that ,luke said nothing about it1 and that ,mark never mentioned it except in two passages written by another person4 ,until that is answered1 as one grave-digger says to the other in ,hamlet1 ,i shall say1 ,ay1 tell me that and unyoke4 ,in the meantime ,i wish to keep on the best terms with all parties concerned4 ,i cannot see why my forgiving spirit fails to gain their sincere praise4 --,chicago ,tribune1 ,september #cj1 #ahhj4 ,,the ,,republican ,,victory4 ,question4 ,do you really think1 ,colonel1 that the country has just passed through a crisis8 ,answer4 ,yes2 there was a crisis and a great one4 ,the question was whether a ,northern or ,southern idea of the powers and duties of the ,federal ,government was to prevail4 ,the great victory of yesterday means that the ,rebellion was not put down on the field of war alone1 but that we have conquered in the realm of thought4 ,the bayonet has been justified by argument4 ,no party can ever succeed in this country that even whispers ,state ,sovereignty4 ,that doctrine has become odious4 ,the sovereignty of the ,state means a ,government without power1 and citizens without protection4 ,question4 ,can you see any further significance in the present ,republican victory other than that the people do not wish to change the general policy of the present administration8 ,answer4 ,yes2 the people have concluded that the lips of ,america shall be free4 ,there never was free speech at the ,south1 and there never will be until the people of that section admit that the ,nation is superior to the ,state1 and that all citizens have equal rights4 ,i know of hundreds who voted the ,republican ticket because they regarded the ,south as hostile to free speech4 ,the people were satisfied with the financial policy of the ,republicans1 and they feared a change4 ,the ,north wants honest money--gold and silver4 ,the people are in favor of honest votes1 and they feared the practices of the ,democratic party4 ,the tissue ballot and shotgun policy made them hesitate to put power in the hands of the ,south4 ,besides1 the tariff question made thousands and thousands of votes4 ,as long as ,europe has slave labor1 and wherever kings and priests rule1 the laborer will be substantially a slave4 ,we must protect ourselves4 ,if the world were free1 trade would be free1 and the seas would be the free highways of the world4 ,the great objects of the ,republican party are to preserve all the liberty we have1 protect ,american labor1 and to make it the undisputed duty of the ,government to protect every citizen at home and abroad4 ,question4 ,what do you think was the main cause of the ,republican sweep8 ,answer4 ,the wisdom of the ,republicans and the mistakes of the ,democrats4 ,the ,democratic party has for twenty years underrated the intelligence1 the patriotism and the honesty of the ,american people4 ,that party has always looked upon politics as a trade1 and success as the last act of a cunning trick4 ,it has had no principles1 fixed or otherwise4 ,it has always been willing to abandon everything but its prejudices4 ,it generally commences where it left off and then goes backward4 ,in this campaign ,english was a mistake1 ,hancock was another4 ,nothing could have been more incongruous than yoking a ,federal soldier with a peace-at-any-price ,democrat4 ,neither could praise the other without slandering himself1 and the blindest partisan could not like them both4 ,but1 after all1 ,i regard the military record of ,english as fully equal to the views of ,general ,hancock on the tariff4 ,the greatest mistake that the ,democratic party made was to suppose that a campaign could be fought and won by slander4 ,the ,american people like fair play and they abhor ignorant and absurd vituperation4 ,the continent knew that ,general ,garfield was an honest man2 that he was in the grandest sense a gentleman2 that he was patriotic1 profound and learned2 that his private life was pure2 that his home life was good and kind and true1 and all the charges made and howled and screeched and printed and sworn to harmed only those who did the making and the howling1 the screeching and the swearing4 ,i never knew a man in whose perfect integrity ,i had more perfect confidence1 and in less than one year even the men who have slandered him will agree with me4 ,question4 ,how about that personal and confidential letter8 7,the ,morey letter47 ,answer4 ,it was as stupid1 as devilish1 as basely born as godfathered4 ,it is an exploded forgery1 and the explosion leaves dead and torn upon the field the author and his witnesses4 ,question4 ,is there anything in the charge that the ,republican party seeks to change our form of government by gradual centralization8 ,answer4 ,nothing whatever4 ,we want power enough in the ,government to protect1 not to destroy1 the liberties of the people4 ,the history of the world shows that burglars have always opposed an increase of the police4 --,new ,york ,herald1 ,november #e1 #ahhj4 ,,ingersoll ,,and ,,beecher499 99 ,the sensation created by the speech of the ,rev4 ,henry ,ward ,beecher at the ,academy of ,music1 in ,brooklyn1 when he uttered a brilliant eulogy of ,col4 ,robert ,ingersoll and publicly shook hands with him has not yet subsided4 ,a portion of the religious world is thoroughly stirred up at what it considers a gross breach of orthodox propriety4 ,this feeling is especially strong among the class of positivists who believe that ,an ,atheist's laugh's a poor exchange ,for ,deity offended4 ,many believe that ,mr4 ,beecher is at heart in full sympathy and accord with ,ingersoll's teachings1 but has not courage enough to say so at the sacrifice of his pastoral position4 ,the fact that these two men are the very head and front of their respective schools of thought makes the matter an important one4 ,the denouncement of the doctrine of eternal punishment1 followed by the scene at the ,academy1 has about it an aroma of suggestiveness that might work much harm without an explanation4 ,since ,colonel ,ingersoll's recent attack upon the personnel of the clergy through the ,shorter ,catechism the pulpit has been remarkably silent regarding the great atheist4 ,is the keen logic and broad humanity of ,ingersoll converting the brain and heart of ,christendom8 was recently asked4 ,did the hand that was stretched out to him on the stage of the ,academy reach across the chasm which separates orthodoxy from infidelity8 ,desiring to answer the last question if possible1 a ,herald reporter visited ,mr4 ,beecher and ,colonel ,ingersoll to learn their opinion of each other4 ,neither of the gentlemen was aware that the other was being interviewed4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,mr4 ,beecher8 ,answer4 ,i regard him as the greatest man in any pulpit of the world4 ,he treated me with a generosity that nothing can exceed4 ,he rose grandly above the prejudices supposed to belong to his class1 and acted as only a man could act without a chain upon his brain and only kindness in his heart4 ,i told him that night that ,i congratulated the world that it had a minister with an intellectual horizon broad enough and a mental sky studded with stars of genius enough to hold all creeds in scorn that shocked the heart of man4 ,i think that ,mr4 ,beecher has liberalized the ,english-speaking people of the world4 ,i do not think he agrees with me4 ,he holds to many things that ,i most passionately deny4 ,but in common1 we believe in the liberty of thought4 ,my principal objections to orthodox religion are two--slavery here and hell hereafter4 ,i do not believe that ,mr4 ,beecher on these points can disagree with me4 ,the real difference between us is-- he says ,god1 ,i say ,nature4 ,the real agreement between us is--we both say--,liberty4 ,question4 ,what is his forte8 ,answer4 ,he is of a wonderfully poetic temperament4 ,in pursuing any course of thought his mind is like a stream flowing through the scenery of fairyland4 ,the stream murmurs and laughs while the banks grow green and the vines blossom4 ,his brain is controlled by his heart4 ,he thinks in pictures4 ,with him logic means mental melody4 ,the discordant is the absurd4 ,for years he has endeavored to hide the dungeon of orthodoxy with the ivy of imagination4 ,now and then he pulls for a moment the leafy curtain aside and is horrified to see the lizards1 snakes1 basilisks and abnormal monsters of the orthodox age1 and then he utters a great cry1 the protest of a loving1 throbbing heart4 ,he is a great thinker1 a marvelous orator1 and1 in my judgment1 greater and grander than any creed of any church4 ,besides all this1 he treated me like a king4 ,manhood is his forte1 and ,i expect to live and die his friend4 ,,beecher ,,on ,,ingersoll4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,colonel ,ingersoll8 ,answer4 ,i do not think there should be any misconception as to my motive for indorsing ,mr4 ,ingersoll4 ,i never saw him before that night1 when ,i clasped his hand in the presence of an assemblage of citizens4 ,yet ,i regard him as one of the greatest men of this age4 ,question4 ,is his influence upon the world good or otherwise8 ,answer4 ,i am an ordained clergyman and believe in revealed religion4 ,i am1 therefore1 bound to regard all persons who do not believe in revealed religion as in error4 ,but on the broad platform of human liberty and progress ,i was bound to give him the right hand of fellowship4 ,i would do it a thousand times over4 ,i do not know ,colonel ,ingersoll's religious views precisely1 but ,i have a general knowledge of them4 ,he has the same right to free thought and free speech that ,i have4 ,i am not that kind of a coward who has to kick a man before he shakes hands with him4 ,if ,i did so ,i would have to kick the ,methodists1 ,roman ,catholics and all other creeds4 ,i will not pitch into any man's religion as an excuse for giving him my hand4 ,i admire ,ingersoll because he is not afraid to speak what he honestly thinks1 and ,i am only sorry that he does not think as ,i do4 ,i never heard so much brilliancy and pith put into a two hour speech as ,i did on that night4 ,i wish my whole congregation had been there to hear it4 ,i regret that there are not more men like ,ingersoll interested in the affairs of the nation4 ,i do not wish to be understood as indorsing skepticism in any form4 --,new ,york ,herald1 ,november #g1 #ahhj4 ,,political4 ,question4 ,is it true1 as rumored1 that you intend to leave ,washington and reside in ,new ,york8 ,answer4 ,no1 ,i expect to remain here for years to come1 so far as ,i can now see4 ,my present intention is certainly to stay here during the coming winter4 ,question4 ,is this because you regard ,washington as the pleasantest and most advantageous city for a residence8 ,answer4 ,well1 in the first place1 ,i dislike to move4 ,in the next place1 the climate is good4 ,in the third place1 the political atmosphere has been growing better of late1 and when you consider that ,i avoid one dislike and reap the benefits of two likes1 you can see why ,i remain4 ,question4 ,do you think that the moral atmosphere will improve with the political atmosphere8 ,answer4 ,i would hate to say that this city is capable of any improvement in the way of morality4 ,we have a great many churches1 a great many ministers1 and1 ,i believe1 some retired chaplains1 so ,i take it that the moral tone of the place could hardly be bettered4 ,one majority in the ,senate might help it4 ,seriously1 however1 ,i think that ,washington has as high a standard of morality as any city in the ,union4 ,and it is one of the best towns in which to loan money without collateral in the world4 ,question4 ,do you know this from experience8 ,answer4 ,this ,i have been told was the solemn answer4 ,question4 ,do you think that the political features of the incoming administration will differ from the present8 ,answer4 ,of course1 ,i have no right to speak for ,general ,garfield4 ,i believe his administration will be ,republican1 at the same time perfectly kind1 manly1 and generous4 ,he is a man to harbor no resentment4 ,he knows that it is the duty of statesmanship to remove causes of irritation rather then punish the irritated4 ,question4 ,do ,i understand you to imply that there will be a neutral policy1 as it were1 towards the ,south8 ,answer4 ,no1 ,i think that there will be nothing neutral about it4 ,i think that the next administration will be one-sided--that is1 it will be on the right side4 ,i know of no better definition for a compromise than to say it is a proceeding in which hypocrites deceive each other4 ,i do not believe that the incoming administration will be neutral in anything4 ,the ,american people do not like neutrality4 ,they would rather a man were on the wrong side than on neither4 ,and1 in my judgment1 there is no paper so utterly unfair1 malicious and devilish1 as one that claims to be neutral4 ,no politician is as bitter as a neutral politician4 ,neutrality is generally used as a mask to hide unusual bitterness4 ,sometimes it hides what it is--nothing4 ,it always stands for hollowness of head or bitterness of heart1 sometimes for both4 ,my idea is--and that is the only reason ,i have the right to express it--that ,general ,garfield believes in the platform adopted by the ,republican party4 ,he believes in free speech1 in honest money1 in divorce of church and state1 and he believes in the protection of ,american citizens by the ,federal ,government wherever the flag flies4 ,he believes that the ,federal ,government is as much bound to protect the citizen at home as abroad4 ,i believe he will do the very best he can to carry these great ideas into execution and make them living realities in the ,united ,states4 ,personally1 ,i have no hatred toward the ,southern people4 ,i have no hatred toward any class4 ,i hate tyranny1 no matter whether it is ,south or ,north2 ,i hate hypocrisy1 and ,i hate above all things1 the spirit of caste4 ,if the ,southern people could only see that they gained as great a victory in the ,rebellion as the ,north did1 and some day they will see it1 the whole question would be settled4 ,the ,south has reaped a far greater benefit from being defeated than the ,north has from being successful1 and ,i believe some day the ,south will be great enough to appreciate that fact4 ,i have always insisted that to be beaten by the right is to be a victor4 ,the ,southern people must get over the idea that they are insulted simply because they are out-voted1 and they ought by this time to know that the ,republicans of the ,north1 not only do not wish them harm1 but really wish them the utmost success4 ,question4 ,but has the ,republican party all the good and the ,democratic all the bad8 ,answer4 ,no1 ,i do not think that the ,republican party has all the good1 nor do ,i pretend that the ,democratic party has all the bad2 though ,i may say that each party comes pretty near it4 ,i admit that there are thousands of really good fellows in the ,democratic party1 and there are some pretty bad people in the ,republican party4 ,but ,i honestly believe that within the latter are most of the progressive men of this country4 ,that party has in it the elements of growth4 ,it is full of hope4 ,it anticipates4 ,the ,democratic party remembers4 ,it is always talking about the past4 ,it is the possessor of a vast amount of political rubbish1 and ,i really believe it has outlived its usefulness4 ,i firmly believe that your editor1 ,mr4 ,hutchings1 could start a better organization1 if he would only turn his attention to it4 ,just think for a moment of the number you could get rid of by starting a new party4 ,a hundred names will probably suggest themselves to any intelligent ,democrat1 the loss of which would almost insure success4 ,some one has said that a tailor in ,boston made a fortune by advertising that he did not cut the breeches of ,webster's statue4 ,a new party by advertising that certain men would not belong to it1 would have an advantage in the next race4 ,question4 ,what1 in your opinion1 were the causes which led to the ,democratic defeat8 ,answer4 ,i think the nomination of ,english was exceedingly unfortunate4 ,indiana1 being an ,october ,state1 the best man in that ,state should have been nominated either for ,president or ,vice- ,president4 ,personally1 ,i know nothing of ,mr4 ,english1 but ,i have the right to say that he was exceedingly unpopular4 ,that was mistake number one4 ,mistake number two was putting a plank in the platform insisting upon a tariff for revenue only4 ,that little word only was one of the most frightful mistakes ever made by a political party4 ,that little word only was a millstone around the neck of the entire campaign4 ,the third mistake was ,hancock's definition of the tariff4 ,it was exceedingly unfortunate1 exceedingly laughable1 and came just in the nick of time4 ,the fourth mistake was the speech of ,wade ,hampton1 ,i mean the speech that the ,republican papers claim he made4 ,of course ,i do not know1 personally1 whether it was made or not4 ,if made1 it was a great mistake4 ,mistake number five was made in ,alabama1 where they refused to allow a ,greenbacker to express his opinion4 ,that lost the ,democrats enough ,greenbackers to turn the scale in ,maine1 and enough in ,indiana to change that election4 ,mistake number six was in the charges made against ,general ,garfield4 ,they were insisted upon1 magnified and multiplied until at last the whole thing assumed the proportions of a malicious libel4 ,this was a great mistake1 for the reason that a number of ,democrats in the ,united ,states had most heartily and cordially indorsed ,general ,garfield as a man of integrity and great ability4 ,such indorsements had been made by the leading ,democrats of the ,north and ,south1 among them ,governor ,hendricks and many others ,i might name4 ,jere ,black had also certified to the integrity and intellectual grandeur of ,general ,garfield1 and when afterward he certified to the exact contrary1 the people believed that it was a persecution4 ,the next mistake1 number seven1 was the ,chinese letter4 ,while it lost ,garfield ,california1 ,nevada1 and probably ,new ,jersey1 it did him good in ,new ,york4 ,this letter was the greatest mistake made1 because a crime is greater than a mistake4 ,these1 in my judgment1 are the principal mistakes made by the ,democratic party in the campaign4 ,had ,mc,donald been on the ticket the result might have been different1 or had the party united on some man in ,new ,york1 satisfactory to the factions1 it might have succeeded4 ,the truth1 however1 is that the ,north to-day is ,republican1 and it may be that had the ,democratic party made no mistakes whatever the result would have been the same4 ,but that mistakes were made is now perfectly evident to the blindest partisan4 ,if the ticket originally suggested1 ,seymour and ,mc,donald1 had been nominated on an unobjectionable platform1 the result might have been different4 ,one of the happiest days in my life was the day on which the ,cincinnati convention did not nominate ,seymour and did nominate ,english4 ,i regard ,general ,hancock as a good soldier1 but not particularly qualified to act as ,president4 ,he has neither the intellectual training nor the experience to qualify him for that place4 ,question4 ,you have doubtless heard of a new party1 ,colonel4 ,what is your idea in regard to it8 ,answer4 ,i have heard two or three speak of a new party to be called the ,national party1 or ,national ,union party1 but whether there is anything in such a movement ,i have no means of knowing4 ,any party in opposition to the ,republican1 no matter what it may be called1 must win on a new issue1 and that new issue will determine the new party4 ,parties cannot be made to order4 ,they must grow4 ,they are the natural offspring of national events4 ,they must embody certain hopes1 they must gratify1 or promise to gratify1 the feelings of a vast number of people4 ,no man can make a party1 and if a new party springs into existence it will not be brought forth to gratify the wishes of a few1 but the wants of the many4 ,it has seemed to me for years that the ,democratic party carried too great a load in the shape of record2 that its autobiography was nearly killing it all the time1 and that if it could die just long enough to assume another form at the resurrection1 just long enough to leave a grave stone to mark the end of its history1 to get a cemetery back of it1 that it might hope for something like success4 ,in other words1 that there must be a funeral before there can be victory4 ,most of its leaders are worn out4 ,they have become so accustomed to defeat that they take it as a matter of course2 they expect it in the beginning and seem unconsciously to work for it4 ,there must be some new ideas1 and this only can happen when the party as such has been gathered to its fathers4 ,i do not think that the advice of ,senator ,hill will be followed4 ,he is willing to kill the ,democratic party in the ,south if we will kill the ,republican party in the ,north4 ,this puts me in mind of what the rooster said to the horse3 ,let us agree not to step on each other's feet4 ,question4 ,your views of the country's future and prospects must naturally be rose colored8 ,answer4 ,of course1 ,i look at things through ,republican eyes and may be prejudiced without knowing it4 ,but it really seems to me that the future is full of great promise4 ,the ,south1 after all1 is growing more prosperous4 ,it is producing more and more every year1 until in time it will become wealthy4 ,the ,west is growing almost beyond the imagination of a speculator1 and the ,eastern and ,middle ,states are much more than holding their own4 ,we have now fifty millions of people and in a few years will have a hundred4 ,that we are a ,nation ,i think is now settled4 ,our growth will be unparalleled4 ,i myself expect to live to see as many ships on the ,pacific as on the ,atlantic4 ,in a few years there will probably be ten millions of people living along the ,rocky and ,sierra ,mountains4 ,it will not be long until ,illinois will find her market west of her4 ,in fifty years this will be the greatest nation on the earth1 and the most populous in the civilized world4 ,china is slowly awakening from the lethargy of centuries4 ,it will soon have the wants of ,europe1 and ,america will supply those wants4 ,this is a nation of inventors and there is more mechanical ingenuity in the ,united ,states than on the rest of the globe4 ,in my judgment this country will in a short time add to its customers hundreds of millions of the people of the ,celestial ,empire4 ,so you see1 to me1 the future is exceedingly bright4 ,and besides all this1 ,i must not forget the thing that is always nearest my heart4 ,there is more intellectual liberty in the ,united ,states to-day than ever before4 ,the people are beginning to see that every citizen ought to have the right to express himself freely upon every possible subject4 ,in a little while1 all the barbarous laws that now disgrace the statute books of the ,states by discriminating against a man simply because he is honest1 will be repealed1 and there will be one country where all citizens will have and enjoy not only equal rights1 but all rights4 ,nothing gratifies me so much as the growth of intellectual liberty4 ,after all1 the true civilization is where every man gives to every other1 every right that he claims for himself4 --,the ,post1 ,washington1 ,d4 ,c41 ,november #ad1 #ahhj4 ,,religion ,,in ,,politics4 ,question4 ,how do you regard the present political situation8 ,answer4 ,my opinion is that the ideas the ,north fought for upon the field have at last triumphed at the ballot-box4 ,for several years after the ,rebellion was put down the ,southern ideas traveled ,north4 ,we lost ,west ,virginia1 ,new ,jersey1 ,connecticut1 ,new ,york and a great many congressional districts in other ,states4 ,we lost both houses of ,congress and every ,southern ,state4 ,the ,southern ideas reached their climax in #ahgf4 ,in my judgment the tide has turned1 and hereafter the ,northern idea is going ,south4 ,the young men are on the ,republican side4 ,the old ,democrats are dying4 ,the cradle is beating the coffin4 ,it is a case of life and death1 and life is ahead4 ,the heirs outnumber the administrators4 ,question4 ,what kind of a ,president will ,garfield make8 ,answer4 ,my opinion is that he will make as good a ,president as this nation ever had4 ,he is fully equipped4 ,he is a trained statesman4 ,he has discussed all the great questions that have arisen for the last eighteen years1 and with great ability4 ,he is a thorough scholar1 a conscientious student1 and takes an exceedingly comprehensive survey of all questions4 ,he is genial1 generous and candid1 and has all the necessary qualities of heart and brain to make a great ,president4 ,he has no prejudices4 ,prejudice is the child and flatterer of ignorance4 ,he is firm1 but not obstinate4 ,the obstinate man wants his own way2 the firm man stands by the right4 ,andrew ,johnson was obstinate--,lincoln was firm4 ,question4 ,how do you think he will treat the ,south8 ,answer4 ,just the same as the ,north4 ,he will be the ,president of the whole country4 ,he will not execute the laws by the compass1 but according to the ,constitution4 ,i do not speak for ,general ,garfield1 nor by any authority from his friends4 ,no one wishes to injure the ,south4 ,the ,republican party feels in honor bound to protect all citizens1 white and black4 ,it must do this in order to keep its self-respect4 ,it must throw the shield of the ,nation over the weakest1 the humblest and the blackest citizen4 ,any other course is suicide4 ,no thoughtful ,southern man can object to this1 and a ,northern ,democrat knows that it is right4 ,question4 ,is there a probability that ,mr4 ,sherman will be retained in the ,cabinet8 ,answer4 ,i have no knowledge upon that question1 and consequently have nothing to say4 ,my opinion about the ,cabinet is1 that ,general ,garfield is well enough acquainted with public men to choose a ,cabinet that will suit him and the country4 ,i have never regarded it as the proper thing to try and force a ,cabinet upon a ,president4 ,he has the right to be surrounded by his friends1 by men in whose judgment and in whose friendship he has the utmost confidence1 and ,i would no more think of trying to put some man in the ,cabinet that ,i would think of signing a petition that a man should marry a certain woman4 ,general ,garfield will1 ,i believe1 select his own constitutional advisers1 and he will take the best he knows4 ,question4 ,what1 in your opinion1 is the condition of the ,democratic party at present8 ,answer4 ,it must get a new set of principles1 and throw away its prejudices4 ,it must demonstrate its capacity to govern the country by governing the ,states where it is in power4 ,in the presence of rebellion it gave up the ship4 ,the ,south must become ,republican before the ,north will willingly give it power2 that is1 the great ideas of nationality are greater than parties1 and if our flag is not large enough to protect every citizen1 we must add a few more stars and stripes4 ,personally ,i have no hatreds in this matter4 ,the present is not only the child of the past1 but the necessary child4 ,a statesman must deal with things as they are4 ,he must not be like ,gladstone1 who divides his time between foreign wars and amendments to the ,english ,book of ,common ,prayer4 ,question4 ,how do you regard the religious question in politics8 ,answer4 ,religion is a personal matter--a matter that each individual soul should be allowed to settle for itself4 ,no man shod in the brogans of impudence should walk into the temple of another man's soul4 ,while every man should be governed by the highest possible considerations of the public weal1 no one has the right to ask for legal assistance in the support of his particular sect4 ,if ,catholics oppose the public schools ,i would not oppose them because they are ,catholics1 but because ,i am in favor of the schools4 ,i regard the public school as the intellectual bread of life4 ,personally ,i have no confidence in any religion that can be demonstrated only to children4 ,i suspect all creeds that rely implicitly on mothers and nurses4 ,that religion is the best that commends itself the strongest to men and women of education and genius4 ,after all1 the prejudices of infancy and the ignorance of the aged are a poor foundation for any system of morals or faith4 ,i respect every honest man1 and ,i think more of a liberal ,catholic than of an illiberal ,infidel4 ,the religious question should be left out of politics4 ,you might as well decide questions of art and music by a ward caucus as to govern the longings and dreams of the soul by law4 ,i believe in letting the sun shine whether the weeds grow or not4 ,i can never side with ,protestants if they try to put ,catholics down by law1 and ,i expect to oppose both of these until religious intolerance is regarded as a crime4 ,question4 ,is the religious movement of which you are the chief exponent spreading8 ,answer4 ,there are ten times as many ,freethinkers this year as there were last4 ,civilization is the child of free thought4 ,the new world has drifted away from the rotting wharf of superstition4 ,the politics of this country are being settled by the new ideas of individual liberty2 and parties and churches that cannot accept the new truths must perish4 ,i want it perfectly understood that ,i am not a politician4 ,i believe in liberty and ,i want to see the time when every man1 woman and child will enjoy every human right4 ,the election is over1 the passions aroused by the campaign will soon subside1 the sober judgment of the people will1 in my opinion1 indorse the result1 and time will indorse the indorsement4 --,the ,evening ,express1 ,new ,york ,city1 ,november #ai1 #ahhj4 ,,miracles ,,and ,,immortality4 ,question4 ,you have seen some accounts of the recent sermon of ,dr4 ,tyng on ,miracles1 ,i presume1 and if so1 what is your opinion of the sermon1 and also what is your opinion of miracles8 ,answer4 ,from an orthodox standpoint1 ,i think the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,tyng is right4 ,if miracles were necessary eighteen hundred years ago1 before scientific facts enough were known to overthrow hundreds and thousands of passages in the ,bible1 certainly they are necessary now4 ,dr4 ,tyng sees clearly that the old miracles are nearly worn out1 and that some new ones are absolutely essential4 ,he takes for granted that1 if ,god would do a miracle to found his gospel1 he certainly would do some more to preserve it1 and that it is in need of preservation about now is evident4 ,i am amazed that the religious world should laugh at him for believing in miracles4 ,it seems to me just as reasonable that the deaf1 dumb1 blind and lame1 should be cured at ,lourdes as at ,palestine4 ,it certainly is no more wonderful that the law of nature should be broken now than that it was broken several thousand years ago4 ,dr4 ,tyng also has this advantage4 ,the witnesses by whom he proves these miracles are alive4 ,an unbeliever can have the opportunity of cross- examination4 ,whereas1 the miracles in the ,new ,testament are substantiated only by the dead4 ,it is just as reasonable to me that blind people receive their sight in ,france as that devils were made to vacate human bodies in the holy land4 ,for one ,i am exceedingly glad that ,dr4 ,tyng has taken this position4 ,it shows that he is a believer in a personal ,god1 in a ,god who is attending a little to the affairs of this world1 and in a ,god who did not exhaust his supplies in the apostolic age4 ,it is refreshing to me to find in this scientific age a gentleman who still believes in miracles4 ,my opinion is that all thorough religionists will have to take the ground and admit that a supernatural religion must be supernaturally preserved4 ,i have been asking for a miracle for several years1 and have in a very mild1 gentle and loving way1 taunted the church for not producing a little one4 ,i have had the impudence to ask any number of them to join in a prayer asking anything they desire for the purpose of testing the efficiency of what is known as supplication4 ,they answer me by calling my attention to the miracles recorded in the ,new ,testament4 ,i insist1 however1 on a new miracle1 and1 personally1 ,i would like to see one now4 ,certainly1 the ,infinite has not lost his power1 and certainly the ,infinite knows that thousands and hundreds of thousands1 if the ,bible is true1 are now pouring over the precipice of unbelief into the gulf of hell4 ,one little miracle would save thousands4 ,one little miracle in ,pittsburg1 well authenticated1 would do more good than all the preaching ever heard in this sooty town4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,tyng clearly sees this1 and he has been driven to the conclusion1 first1 that ,god can do miracles2 second1 that he ought to1 third1 that he has4 ,in this he is perfectly logical4 ,after a man believes the ,bible1 after he believes in the flood and in the story of ,jonah1 certainly he ought not to hesitate at a miracle of to-day4 ,when ,i say ,i want a miracle1 ,i mean by that1 ,i want a good one4 ,all the miracles recorded in the ,new ,testament could have been simulated4 ,a fellow could have pretended to be dead1 or blind1 or dumb1 or deaf4 ,i want to see a good miracle4 ,i want to see a man with one leg1 and then ,i want to see the other leg grow out4 ,i would like to see a miracle like that performed in ,north ,carolina4 ,two men were disputing about the relative merits of the salve they had for sale4 ,one of the men1 in order to demonstrate that his salve was better than any other1 cut off a dog's tail and applied a little of the salve to the stump1 and1 in the presence of the spectators1 a new tail grew out4 ,but the other man1 who also had salve for sale1 took up the piece of tail that had been cast away1 put a little salve at the end of that1 and a new dog grew out1 and the last heard of those parties they were quarrelling as to who owned the second dog4 ,something like that is what ,i call a miracle4 ,question4 ,what do you believe about the immortality of the soul8 ,do you believe that the spirit lives as an individual after the body is dead8 ,answer4 ,i have said a great many times that it is no more wonderful that we should live again than that we do live4 ,sometimes ,i have thought it not quite so wonderful for the reason that we have a start4 ,but upon that subject ,i have not the slightest information4 ,whether man lives again or not ,i cannot pretend to say4 ,there may be another world and there may not be4 ,if there is another world we ought to make the best of it after arriving there4 ,if there is not another world1 or if there is another world1 we ought to make the best of this4 ,and since nobody knows1 all should be permitted to have their opinions1 and my opinion is that nobody knows4 ,if we take the ,old ,testament for authority1 man is not immortal4 ,the ,old ,testament shows man how he lost immortality4 ,according to ,genesis1 ,god prevented man from putting forth his hand and eating of the ,tree of ,life4 ,it is there stated1 had he succeeded1 man would have lived forever4 ,god drove him from the garden1 preventing him eating of this tree1 and in consequence man became mortal2 so that if we go by the ,old ,testament we are compelled to give up immortality4 ,the ,new ,testament has but little on the subject4 ,in one place we are told to seek for immortality4 ,if we are already immortal1 it is hard to see why we should go on seeking for it4 ,in another place we are told that they who are worthy to obtain that world and the resurrection of the dead1 are not given in marriage4 ,from this one would infer there would be some unworthy to be raised from the dead4 ,upon the question of immortality1 the ,old ,testament throws but little satisfactory light4 ,i do not deny immortality1 nor would ,i endeavor to shake the belief of anybody in another life4 ,what ,i am endeavoring to do is to put out the fires of hell4 ,if we cannot have heaven without hell1 ,i am in favor of abolishing heaven4 ,i do not want to go to heaven if one soul is doomed to agony4 ,i would rather be annihilated4 ,my opinion of immortality is this3 ,first4--,i live1 and that of itself is infinitely wonderful4 ,second4--,there was a time when ,i was not1 and after ,i was not1 ,i was4 ,third4--,now that ,i am1 ,i may be again2 and it is no more wonderful that ,i may be again1 if ,i have been1 than that ,i am1 having once been nothing4 ,if the churches advocated immortality1 if they advocated eternal justice1 if they said that man would be rewarded and punished according to deeds2 if they admitted that some time in eternity there would be an opportunity given to lift up souls1 and that throughout all the ages the angels of progress and virtue would beckon the fallen upward2 and that some time1 and no matter how far away they might put off the time1 all the children of men would be reasonably happy1 ,i never would say a solitary word against the church1 but just as long as they preach that the majority of mankind will suffer eternal pain1 just so long ,i shall oppose them2 that is to say1 as long as ,i live4 ,question4 ,do you believe in a ,god2 and1 if so1 what kind of a ,god8 ,answer4 ,let me1 in the first place1 lay a foundation for an answer4 ,first4--,man gets all food for thought through the medium of the senses4 ,the effect of nature upon the senses1 and through the senses upon the brain1 must be natural4 ,all food for thought1 then1 is natural4 ,as a consequence of this1 there can be no supernatural idea in the human brain4 ,whatever idea there is must have been a natural product4 ,if1 then1 there is no supernatural idea in the human brain1 then there cannot be in the human brain an idea of the supernatural4 ,if we can have no idea of the supernatural1 and if the ,god of whom you spoke is admitted to be supernatural1 then1 of course1 ,i can have no idea of him1 and ,i certainly can have no very fixed belief on any subject about which ,i have no idea4 ,there may be a ,god for all ,i know4 ,there may be thousands of them4 ,but the idea of an infinite ,being outside and independent of nature is inconceivable4 ,i do not know of any word that would explain my doctrine or my views upon the subject4 ,i suppose ,pantheism is as near as ,i could go4 ,i believe in the eternity of matter and in the eternity of intelligence1 but ,i do not believe in any ,being outside of nature4 ,i do not believe in any personal ,deity4 ,i do not believe in any aristocracy of the air4 ,i know nothing about origin or destiny4 ,between these two horizons ,i live1 whether ,i wish to or not1 and must be satisfied with what ,i find between these two horizons4 ,i have never heard any ,god described that ,i believe in4 ,i have never heard any religion explained that ,i accept4 ,to make something out of nothing cannot be more absurd than that an infinite intelligence made this world1 and proceeded to fill it with crime and want and agony1 and then1 not satisfied with the evil he had wrought1 made a hell in which to consummate the great mistake4 ,question4 ,do you believe that the world1 and all that is in it came by chance8 ,answer4 ,i do not believe anything comes by chance4 ,i regard the present as the necessary child of a necessary past4 ,i believe matter is eternal2 that it has eternally existed and eternally will exist4 ,i believe that in all matter1 in some way1 there is what we call force2 that one of the forms of force is intelligence4 ,i believe that whatever is in the universe has existed from eternity and will forever exist4 ,secondly4--,i exclude from my philosophy all ideas of chance4 ,matter changes eternally its form1 never its essence4 ,you cannot conceive of anything being created4 ,no one can conceive of anything existing without a cause or with a cause4 ,let me explain2 a thing is not a cause until an effect has been produced2 so that1 after all1 cause and effect are twins coming into life at precisely the same instant1 born of the womb of an unknown mother4 ,the ,universe in the only fact1 and everything that ever has happened1 is happening1 or will happen1 are but the different aspects of the one eternal fact4 --,the ,dispatch1 ,pittsburg1 ,pa41 ,december #aa1 #ahhj4 ,,the ,,political ,,outlook4 ,question4 ,what phases will the ,southern question assume in the next four years8 ,answer4 ,the next ,congress should promptly unseat every member of ,congress in whose district there was not a fair and honest election4 ,that is the first hard work to be done4 ,let notice1 in this way1 be given to the whole country1 that fraud cannot succeed4 ,no man should be allowed to hold a seat by force or fraud4 ,just as soon as it is understood that fraud is useless it will be abandoned4 ,in that way the honest voters of the whole country can be protected4 ,an honest vote settles the ,southern question1 and ,congress has the power to compel an honest vote1 or to leave the dishonest districts without representation4 ,i want this policy adopted1 not only in the ,south1 but in the ,north4 ,no man touched or stained with fraud should be allowed to hold his seat4 ,send such men home1 and let them stay there until sent back by honest votes4 ,the ,southern question is a ,northern question1 and the ,republican party must settle it for all time4 ,we must have honest elections1 or the ,republic must fall4 ,illegal voting must be considered and punished as a crime4 ,taking one hundred and seventy thousand as the basis of representation1 the ,south1 through her astounding increase of colored population1 gains three electoral votes1 while the ,north and ,east lose three4 ,garfield was elected by the thirty thousand colored votes cast in ,new ,york4 ,question4 ,will the negro continue to be the balance of power1 and if so1 will it inure to his benefit8 ,answer4 ,the more political power the colored man has the better he will be treated1 and if he ever holds the balance of power he will be treated as well as the balance of our citizens4 ,my idea is that the colored man should stand on an equality with the white before the law2 that he should honestly be protected in all his rights2 that he should be allowed to vote1 and that his vote should be counted4 ,it is a simple question of honesty4 ,the colored people are doing well2 they are industrious2 they are trying to get an education1 and1 on the whole1 ,i think they are behaving fully as well as the whites4 ,they are the most forgiving people in the world1 and about the only real ,christians in our country4 ,they have suffered enough1 and for one ,i am on their side4 ,i think more of honest black people than of dishonest whites1 to say the least of it4 ,question4 ,do you apprehend any trouble from the ,southern leaders in this closing session of ,congress1 in attempts to force pernicious legislation8 ,answer4 ,i do not4 ,the ,southern leaders know that the doctrine of ,state ,sovereignty is dead4 ,they know that they cannot depend upon the ,northern ,democrat1 and they know that the best interests of the ,south can only be preserved by admitting that the war settled the questions and ideas fought for and against4 ,they know that this country is a ,nation1 and that no party can possibly succeed that advocates anything contrary to that4 ,my own opinion is that most of the ,southern leaders are heartily ashamed of the course pursued by their ,northern friends1 and will take the first opportunity to say so4 ,question4 ,in what light do you regard the ,chinaman8 ,answer4 ,i am opposed to compulsory immigration1 or cooley or slave immigration4 ,if ,chinamen are sent to this country by corporations or companies under contracts that amount to slavery or anything like it or near it1 then ,i am opposed to it4 ,but ,i am not prepared to say that ,i would be opposed to voluntary immigration4 ,i see by the papers that a new treaty has been agreed upon that will probably be ratified and be satisfactory to all parties4 ,we ought to treat ,china with the utmost fairness4 ,if our treaty is wrong1 amend it1 but do so according to the recognized usage of nations4 ,after what has been said and done in this country ,i think there is very little danger of any ,chinaman voluntarily coming here4 ,by this time ,china must have an exceedingly exalted opinion of our religion1 and of the justice and hospitality born of our most holy faith4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of making ex-,presidents ,senators for life8 ,answer4 ,i am opposed to it4 ,i am against any man holding office for life4 ,and ,i see no more reason for making ex-,presidents ,senators1 than for making ex-,senators ,presidents4 ,to me the idea is preposterous4 ,why should ex-,presidents be taken care of8 ,in this country labor is not disgraceful1 and after a man has been ,president he has still the right to be useful4 ,i am personally acquainted with several men who will agree1 in consideration of being elected to the presidency1 not to ask for another office during their natural lives4 ,the people of this country should never allow a great man to suffer4 ,the hand1 not of charity1 but of justice and generosity1 should be forever open to those who have performed great public service4 ,but the ex-,presidents of the future may not all be great and good men1 and bad ex-,presidents will not make good ,senators4 ,if the nation does anything1 let it give a reasonable pension to ex- ,presidents4 ,no man feels like giving pension1 power1 or place to ,general ,grant simply because he was once ,president1 but because he was a great soldier1 and led the armies of the nation to victory4 ,make him a ,general1 and retire him with the highest military title4 ,let him grandly wear the laurels he so nobly won1 and should the sky at any time be darkened with a cloud of foreign war1 this country will again hand him the sword4 ,such a course honors the nation and the man4 ,question4 ,are we not entering upon the era of our greatest prosperity8 ,answer4 ,we are just beginning to be prosperous4 ,the ,northern ,pacific ,railroad is to be completed4 ,forty millions of dollars have just been raised by that company1 and new ,states will soon be born in the great ,northwest4 ,the ,texas ,pacific will be pushed to ,san ,diego1 and in a few years we will ride in a ,pullman car from ,chicago to the ,city of ,mexico4 ,the gold and silver mines are yielding more and more1 and within the last ten years more than forty million acres of land have been changed from wilderness to farms4 ,this country is beginning to grow4 ,we have just fairly entered upon what ,i believe will be the grandest period of national development and prosperity4 ,with the ,republican party in power2 with good money2 with unlimited credit2 with the best land in the world2 with ninety thousand miles of railway2 with mountains of gold and silver2 with hundreds of thousands of square miles of coal fields2 with iron enough for the whole world2 with the best system of common schools2 with telegraph wires reaching every city and town1 so that no two citizens are an hour apart2 with the telephone1 that makes everybody in the city live next door1 and with the best folks in the world1 how can we help prospering until the continent is covered with happy homes8 ,question4 ,what do you think of civil service reform8 ,answer4 ,i am in favor of it4 ,i want such civil service reform that all the offices will be filled with good and competent ,republicans4 ,the majority should rule1 and the men who are in favor of the views of the majority should hold the offices4 ,i am utterly opposed to the idea that a party should show its liberality at the expense of its principles4 ,men holding office can afford to take their chances with the rest of us4 ,if they are ,democrats1 they should not expect to succeed when their party is defeated4 ,i believe that there are enough good and honest ,republicans in this country to fill all the offices1 and ,i am opposed to taking any ,democrats until the ,republican supply is exhausted4 ,men should not join the ,republican party to get office4 ,such men are contemptible to the last degree4 ,neither should a ,republican administration compel a man to leave the party to get a ,federal appointment4 ,after a great battle has been fought ,i do not believe that the victorious general should reward the officers of the conquered army4 ,my doctrine is1 rewards for friends4 --,the ,commercial1 ,cincinnati1 ,ohio1 ,december #f1 #ahhj4 ,,mr4 ,,beecher1 ,,moses ,,and ,,the ,,negro4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,beecher is here4 ,have you seen him8 ,answer4 ,no1 ,i did not meet ,mr4 ,beecher4 ,neither did ,i hear him lecture4 ,the fact is1 that long ago ,i made up my mind that under no circumstances would ,i attend any lecture or other entertainment given at ,lincoln ,hall4 ,first1 because the hall has been denied me1 and secondly1 because ,i regard it as extremely unsafe4 ,the hall is up several stories from the ground1 and in case of the slightest panic1 in my judgment1 many lives would be lost4 ,had it not been for this1 and for the fact that the persons owning it imagined that because they had control1 the brick and mortar had some kind of holy and sacred quality1 and that this holiness is of such a wonderful character that it would not be proper for a man in that hall to tell his honest thoughts1 ,i would have heard him4 ,question4 ,then ,i assume that you and ,mr4 ,beecher have made up8 ,answer4 ,there is nothing to be made up for so far as ,i know4 ,mr4 ,beecher has treated me very well1 and1 ,i believe1 a little too well for his own peace of mind4 ,i have been informed that some members of ,plymouth ,church felt exceedingly hurt that their pastor should so far forget himself as to extend the right hand of fellowship to one who differs from him upon what they consider very essential points in theology4 ,you see ,i have denied with all my might1 a great many times1 the infamous doctrine of eternal punishment4 ,i have also had the temerity to suggest that ,i did not believe that a being of infinite justice and mercy was the author of all that ,i find in the ,old ,testament4 ,as1 for instance1 ,i have insisted that ,god never commanded anybody to butcher women or to cut the throats of prattling babes4 ,these orthodox gentlemen have rushed to the rescue of ,jehovah by insisting that he did all these horrible things4 ,i have also maintained that ,god never sanctioned or upheld human slavery2 that he never would make one child to own and beat another4 ,i have also expressed some doubts as to whether this same ,god ever established the institution of polygamy4 ,i have insisted that the institution is simply infamous2 that it destroys the idea of home2 that it turns to ashes the most sacred words in our language1 and leaves the world a kind of den in which crawl the serpents of selfishness and lust4 ,i have been informed that after ,mr4 ,beecher had treated me kindly a few members of his congregation objected1 and really felt ashamed that he had so forgotten himself4 ,after that1 ,mr4 ,beecher saw fit to give his ideas of the position ,i had taken4 ,in this he was not exceedingly kind1 nor was his justice very conspicuous4 ,but ,i cared nothing about that1 not the least4 ,as ,i have said before1 whenever ,mr4 ,beecher says a good thing ,i give him credit4 ,whenever he does an unfair or unjust thing ,i charge it to the account of his religion4 ,i have insisted1 and ,i still insist1 that ,mr4 ,beecher is far better than his creed4 ,i do not believe that he believes in the doctrine of eternal punishment4 ,neither do ,i believe that he believes in the literal truth of the ,scriptures4 ,and1 after all1 if the ,bible is not true1 it is hardly worth while to insist upon its inspiration4 ,an inspired lie is not better than an uninspired one4 ,if the ,bible is true it does not need to be inspired4 ,if it is not true1 inspiration does not help it4 ,so that after all it is simply a question of fact4 ,is it true8 ,i believe ,mr4 ,beecher stated that one of my grievous faults was that ,i picked out the bad things in the ,bible4 ,how an infinitely good and wise ,god came to put bad things in his book ,mr4 ,beecher does not explain4 ,i have insisted that the ,bible is not inspired1 and1 in order to prove that1 have pointed out such passages as ,i deemed unworthy to have been written even by a civilized man or a savage4 ,i certainly would not endeavor to prove that the ,bible is uninspired by picking out its best passages4 ,i admit that there are many good things in the ,bible4 ,the fact that there are good things in it does not prove its inspiration1 because there are thousands of other books containing good things1 and yet no one claims they are inspired4 ,shakespeare's works contain a thousand times more good things than the ,bible1 but no one claims he was an inspired man4 ,it is also true that there are many bad things in ,shakespeare--many passages which ,i wish he had never written4 ,but ,i can excuse ,shakespeare1 because he did not rise absolutely above his time4 ,that is to say1 he was a man2 that is to say1 he was imperfect4 ,if anybody claimed now that ,shakespeare was actually inspired1 that claim would be answered by pointing to certain weak or bad or vulgar passages in his works4 ,but every ,christian will say that it is a certain kind of blasphemy to impute vulgarity or weakness to ,god1 as they are all obliged to defend the weak1 the bad and the vulgar1 so long as they insist upon the inspiration of the ,bible4 ,now1 ,i pursued the same course with the ,bible that ,mr4 ,beecher has pursued with me4 ,why did he want to pick out my bad things8 ,is it possible that he is a kind of vulture that sees only the carrion of another8 ,after all1 has he not pursued the same method with me that he blames me for pursuing in regard to the ,bible8 ,of course he must pursue that method4 ,he could not object to me and then point out passages that were not objectionable4 ,if he found fault he had to find faults in order to sustain his ground4 ,that is exactly what ,i have done with ,scriptures--nothing more and nothing less4 ,the reason ,i have thrown away the ,bible is that in many places it is harsh1 cruel1 unjust1 coarse1 vulgar1 atrocious1 infamous4 ,at the same time1 ,i admit that it contains many passages of an excellent and splendid character --many good things1 wise sayings1 and many excellent and just laws4 ,but ,i would like to ask this3 ,suppose there were no passages in the ,bible except those upholding slavery1 polygamy and wars of extermination2 would anybody then claim that it was the word of ,god8 ,i would like to ask if there is a ,christian in the world who would not be overjoyed to find that every one of these passages was an interpolation8 ,i would also like to ask ,mr4 ,beecher if he would not be greatly gratified to find that after ,god had written the ,bible the ,devil had got hold of it1 and interpolated all these passages about slavery1 polygamy1 the slaughter of women and babes and the doctrine of eternal punishment8 ,suppose1 as a matter of fact1 the ,devil did get hold of it2 what part of the ,bible would ,mr4 ,beecher pick out as having been written by the ,devil8 ,and if he picks out these passages could not the ,devil answer him by saying1 ,you1 ,mr4 ,beecher1 are like a vulture1 a kind of buzzard1 flying through the tainted air of inspiration1 and pouncing down upon the carrion4 ,why do you not fly like a dove1 and why do you not have the innocent ignorance of the dove1 so that you could light upon a carcass and imagine that you were surrounded by the perfume of violets8 ,the fact is that good things in a book do not prove that it is inspired1 but the presence of bad things does prove that it is not4 ,question4 ,what was the real difficulty between you and ,moses1 ,colonel1 a man who has been dead for thousands of years8 ,answer4 ,we never had any difficulty4 ,i have always taken pains to say that ,moses had nothing to do with the ,pentateuch4 ,those books1 in my judgment1 were written several centuries after ,moses had become dust in his unknown sepulchre4 ,no doubt ,moses was quite a man in his day1 if he ever existed at all4 ,some people say that ,moses is exactly the same as law-giver2 that is to say1 as ,legislature1 that is to say as ,congress4 ,imagine somebody in the future as regarding the ,congress of the ,united ,states as one person6 ,and then imagine that somebody endeavoring to prove that ,congress was always consistent4 ,but1 whether ,moses lived or not makes but little difference to me4 ,i presume he filled the place and did the work that he was compelled to do1 and although according to the account ,god had much to say to him with regard to the making of altars1 tongs1 snuffers and candlesticks1 there is much left for nature still to tell4 ,thinking of ,moses as a man1 admitting that he was above his fellows1 that he was in his day and generation a leader1 and1 in a certain narrow sense1 a patriot1 that he was the founder of the ,jewish people2 that he found them barbarians and endeavored to control them by thunder and lightning1 and found it necessary to pretend that he was in partnership with the power governing the universe2 that he took advantage of their ignorance and fear1 just as politicians do now1 and as theologians always will1 still1 ,i see no evidence that the man ,moses was any nearer to ,god than his descendants1 who are still warring against the ,philistines in every civilized part of the globe4 ,moses was a believer in slavery1 in polygamy1 in wars of extermination1 in religious persecution and intolerance and in almost everything that is now regarded with loathing1 contempt and scorn4 ,the ,jehovah of whom he speaks violated1 or commands the violation of at least nine of the ,ten ,commandments he gave4 ,there is one thing1 however1 that can be said of ,moses that cannot be said of any person who now insists that he was inspired1 and that is1 he was in advance of his time4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,buckner ,bill for the colonization of the negroes in ,mexico8 ,answer4 ,where does ,mr4 ,buckner propose to colonize the white people1 and what right has he to propose the colonization of six millions of people8 ,should we not have other bills to colonize the ,germans1 the ,swedes1 the ,irish1 and then1 may be1 another bill to drive the ,chinese into the sea8 ,where do we get the right to say that the negroes must emigrate8 ,all such schemes will1 in my judgment1 prove utterly futile4 ,perhaps the history of the world does not give an instance of the emigration of six millions of people4 ,notwithstanding the treatment that ,ireland has received from ,england1 which may be designated as a crime of three hundred years1 the ,irish still love ,ireland4 ,all the despotism in the world will never crush out of the ,irish heart the love of home--the adoration of the old sod4 ,the negroes of the ,south have certainly suffered enough to drive them into other countries2 but after all1 they prefer to stay where they were born4 ,they prefer to live where their ancestors were slaves1 where fathers and mothers were sold and whipped2 and ,i don't believe it will be possible to induce a majority of them to leave that land4 ,of course1 thousands may leave1 and in process of time millions may go1 but ,i don't believe emigration will ever equal their natural increase4 ,as the whites of the ,south become civilized the reason for going will be less and less4 ,i see no reason why the white and black men cannot live together in the same land1 under the same flag4 ,the beauty of liberty is you cannot have it unless you give it away1 and the more you give away the more you have4 ,i know that my liberty is secure only because others are free4 ,i am perfectly willing to live in a country with such men as ,frederick ,douglass and ,senator ,bruce4 ,i have always preferred a good1 clever black man to a mean white man1 and ,i am of the opinion that ,i shall continue in that preference4 ,now1 if we could only have a colonization bill that would get rid of all the rowdies1 all the rascals and hypocrites1 ,i would like to see it carried out1 thought some people might insist that it would amount to a repudiation of the national debt and that hardly enough would be left to pay the interest4 ,no1 talk as we will1 the colored people helped to save this ,nation4 ,they have been at all times and in all places the friends of our flag2 a flag that never really protected them4 ,and for my part1 ,i am willing that they should stand forever beneath that flag1 the equal in rights of all other people4 ,politically1 if any black men are to be sent away1 ,i want it understood that each one is to be accompanied by a ,democrat1 so that the balance of power1 especially in ,new ,york1 will not be disturbed4 ,question4 ,i notice that leading ,republican newspapers are advising ,general ,garfield to cut loose from the machine in politics2 what do you regard as the machine8 ,answer4 ,all defeated candidates regard the persons who defeated them as constituting a machine1 and always imagine that there is some wicked conspiracy at the bottom of the machine4 ,some of the recent reformers regard the people who take part in the early stages of a political campaign--who attend caucuses and primaries1 who speak of politics to their neighbors1 as members and parts of the machine1 and regard only those as good and reliable ,american citizens who take no part whatever1 simply reserving the right to grumble after the work has been done by others4 ,not much can be accomplished in politics without an organization1 and the moment an organization is formed1 and1 you might say1 just a little before1 leading spirits will be developed4 ,certain men will take the lead1 and the weaker men will in a short time1 unless they get all the loaves and fishes1 denounce the whole thing as a machine1 and1 to show how thoroughly and honestly they detest the machine in politics1 will endeavor to organize a little machine themselves4 ,general ,garfield has been in politics for many years4 ,he knows the principal men in both parties4 ,he knows the men who have not only done something1 but who are capable of doing something1 and such men will not1 in my opinion1 be neglected4 ,i do not believe that ,general ,garfield will do any act calculated to divide the ,republican party4 ,no thoroughly great man carries personal prejudice into the administration of public affairs4 ,of course1 thousands of people will be prophesying that this man is to be snubbed and another to be paid2 but1 in my judgment1 after the #dth of ,march most people will say that ,general ,garfield has used his power wisely and that he has neither sought nor shunned men simply because he wished to pay debts--either of love or hatred4 --,washington correspondent1 ,brooklyn ,eagle1 ,january #ca1 #ahha4 ,,hades1 ,,delaware ,,and ,,freethought4 ,question4 ,now that a lull has come in politics1 ,i thought ,i would come and see what is going on in the religious world8 ,answer4 ,well1 from what little ,i learn1 there has not been much going on during the last year4 ,there are five hundred and twenty- six ,congregational ,churches in ,massachusetts1 and two hundred of these churches have not received a new member for an entire year1 and the others have scarcely held their own4 ,in ,illinois there are four hundred and eighty-three ,presbyterian ,churches1 and they have now fewer members than they had in #ahgi1 and of the four hundred and eighty-three1 one hundred and eighty-three have not received a single new member for twelve months4 ,a report has been made1 under the auspices of the ,pan-,presbyterian ,council1 to the effect that there are in the whole world about three millions of ,presbyterians4 ,this is about one-fifth of one per cent4 of the inhabitants of the world4 ,the probability is that of the three million nominal ,presbyterians1 not more than two or three hundred thousand actually believe the doctrine1 and of the two or three hundred thousand1 not more than five or six hundred have any true conception of what the doctrine is4 ,as the ,presbyterian ,church has only been able to induce one-fifth of one per cent4 of the people to even call themselves ,presbyterians1 about how long will it take1 at this rate1 to convert mankind8 ,the fact is1 there seems to be a general lull along the entire line1 and just at present very little is being done by the orthodox people to keep their fellow-citizens out of hell4 ,question4 ,do you really think that the orthodox people now believe in the old doctrine of eternal punishment1 and that they really think there is a kind of hell that our ancestors so carefully described8 ,answer4 ,i am afraid that the old idea is dying out1 and that many ,christians are slowly giving up the consolations naturally springing from the old belief4 ,another terrible blow to the old infamy is the fact that in the revised ,new ,testament the word ,hades has been substituted4 ,as nobody knows exactly what ,hades means1 it will not be quite so easy to frighten people at revivals by threatening them with something that they don't clearly understand4 ,after this1 when the impassioned orator cries out that all the unconverted will be sent to ,hades1 the poor sinners1 instead of getting frightened1 will begin to ask each other what and where that is4 ,it will take many years of preaching to clothe that word in all the terrors and horrors1 pains1 and penalties and pangs of hell4 ,hades is a compromise4 ,it is a concession to the philosophy of our day4 ,it is a graceful acknowledgment to the growing spirit of investigation1 that hell1 after all1 is a barbaric mistake4 ,hades is the death of revivals4 ,it cannot be used in song4 ,it won't rhyme with anything with the same force that hell does4 ,it is altogether more shadowy than hot4 ,it is not associated with brimstone and flame4 ,it sounds somewhat indistinct1 somewhat lonesome1 a little desolate1 but not altogether uncomfortable4 ,for revival purposes1 ,hades is simply useless1 and few conversions will be made in the old way under the revised ,testament4 ,question4 ,do you really think that the church is losing ground8 ,answer4 ,i am not1 as you probably know1 connected with any orthodox organization1 and consequently have to rely upon them for my information4 ,if they can be believed1 the church is certainly in an extremely bad condition4 ,i find that the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,cuyler1 only a few days ago1 speaking of the religious condition of ,brooklyn --and ,brooklyn1 you know1 has been called the ,city of ,churches-- states that the great mass of that ,christian city was out of ,christ1 and that more professing ,christians went to the theatre than to the prayer meeting4 ,this1 certainly1 from their standpoint1 is a most terrible declaration4 ,brooklyn1 you know1 is one of the great religious centres of the world--a city in which nearly all the people are engaged either in delivering or in hearing sermons2 a city filled with the editors of religious periodicals2 a city of prayer and praise2 and yet1 while prayer meetings are free1 the theatres1 with the free list entirely suspended1 catch more ,christians than the churches2 and this happens while all the pulpits thunder against the stage1 and the stage remains silent as to the pulpit4 ,at the same meeting in which the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,cuyler made his astounding statements the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,pentecost was the bearer of the happy news that four out of five persons living in the city of ,brooklyn were going down to hell with no ,god and with no hope4 ,if he had read the revised ,testament he would have said ,hades1 and the effect of the statement would have been entirely lost4 ,if four-fifths of the people of that great city are destined to eternal pain1 certainly we cannot depend upon churches for the salvation of the world4 ,at the meeting of the ,brooklyn pastors they were in doubt as to whether they should depend upon further meetings1 or upon a day of fasting and prayer for the purpose of converting the city4 ,in my judgment1 it would be much better to devise ways and means to keep a good many people from fasting in ,brooklyn4 ,if they had more meat1 they could get along with less meeting4 ,if fasting would save a city1 there are always plenty of hungry folks even in that ,christian town4 ,the real trouble with the church of to-day is1 that it is behind the intelligence of the people4 ,its doctrines no longer satisfy the brains of the nineteenth century2 and if the church proposes to hold its power1 it must lose its superstitions4 ,the day of revivals is gone4 ,only the ignorant and unthinking can hereafter be impressed by hearing the orthodox creed4 ,fear has in it no reformatory power1 and the more intelligent the world grows the more despicable and contemptible the doctrine of eternal misery will become4 ,the tendency of the age is toward intellectual liberty1 toward personal investigation4 ,authority is no longer taken for truth4 ,people are beginning to find that all the great and good are not dead--that some good people are alive1 and that the demonstrations of to-day are fully equal to the mistaken theories of the past4 ,question4 ,how are you getting along with ,delaware8 ,answer4 ,first rate4 ,you know ,i have been wondering where ,comegys came from1 and at last ,i have made the discovery4 ,i was told the other day by a gentleman from ,delaware that many years ago ,colonel ,hazelitt died2 that ,colonel ,hazelitt was an old ,revolutionary officer1 and that when they were digging his grave they dug up ,comegys4 ,back of that no one knows anything of his history4 ,the only thing they know about him certainly1 is1 that he has never changed one of his views since he was found1 and that he never will4 ,i am inclined to think1 however1 that he lives in a community congenial to him4 ,for instance1 ,i saw in a paper the other day that within a radius of thirty miles around ,georgetown1 ,delaware1 there are about two hundred orphan and friendless children4 ,these children1 it seems1 were indentured to ,delaware farmers by the managers of orphan asylums and other public institutions in and about ,philadelphia4 ,it is stated in the paper1 that3 ,many of these farmers are rough task-masters1 and if a boy fails to perform the work of an adult1 he is almost certain to be cruelly treated1 half starved1 and in the coldest weather wretchedly clad4 ,if he does the work1 his life is not likely to be much happier1 for as a rule he will receive more kicks than candy4 ,the result in either case is almost certain to be wrecked constitutions1 dwarfed bodies1 rounded shoulders1 and limbs crippled or rendered useless by frost or rheumatism4 ,the principal diet of these boys is corn pone4 ,a few days ago1 ,constable ,w4 ,h4 ,johnston went to the house of ,reuben ,taylor1 and on entering the sitting room his attention was attracted by the moans of its only occupant1 a little colored boy1 who was lying on the hearth in front of the fireplace4 ,the boy's head was covered with ashes from the fire1 and he did not pay the slightest attention to the visitor1 until ,johnston asked what made him cry4 ,then the little fellow sat up and drawing on old rag off his foot said1 ',look there4' ,the sight that met ,johnston's eye was horrible beyond description4 ,the poor boy's feet were so horribly frozen that the flesh had dropped off the toes until the bones protruded4 ,the flesh on the sides1 bottoms1 and tops of his feet was swollen until the skin cracked in many places1 and the inflamed flesh was sloughing off in great flakes4 ,the frost-bitten flesh extended to his knees1 the joints of which were terribly inflamed4 ,the right one had already begun suppurating4 ,this poor little black boy1 covered with nothing but a cotton shirt1 drilling pants1 a pair of nearly worn out brogans and a battered old hat1 on the morning of ,december #cjth1 the coldest day of the season1 when the mercury was seventeen degrees below zero1 in the face of a driving snow storm1 was sent half a mile from home to protect his master's unshucked corn from the depredations of marauding cows and crows4 ,he remained standing around in the snow until four o'clock1 then he drove the cows home1 received a piece of cold corn pone1 and was sent out in the snow again to chop stove wood till dark4 ,having no bed1 he slept that night in front of the fireplace1 with his frozen feet buried in the ashes4 ,dr4 ,c4 ,h4 ,richards found it necessary to cut off the boy's feet as far back as the ankle and the instep4 ,this was but one case in several4 ,personally1 ,i have no doubt that ,mr4 ,reuben ,taylor entirely agrees with ,chief ,justice ,comegys on the great question of blasphemy1 and probably nothing would so gratify ,mr4 ,reuben ,taylor as to see some man in a ,delaware jail for the crime of having expressed an honest thought4 ,no wonder that in the ,state of ,delaware the ,christ of intellectual liberty has been crucified between the pillory and the whipping-post4 ,of course ,i know that there are thousands of most excellent people in that ,state--people who believe in intellectual liberty1 and who only need a little help--and ,i am doing what ,i can in that direction --to repeal the laws that now disgrace the statute book of that little commonwealth4 ,i have seen many people from that ,state lately who really wish that ,colonel ,hazelitt had never died4 ,question4 ,what has the press generally said with regard to the action of ,judge ,comegys8 ,do they1 so far as you know1 justify his charge8 ,answer4 ,a great many papers having articles upon the subject have been sent to me4 ,a few of the religious papers seem to think that the ,judge did the best he knew1 and there is one secular paper called the ,evening ,news1 published at ,chester1 ,pa41 that thinks that the rebuke from so high a source of authority will have a most excellent effect1 and will check religious blasphemers from parading their immoral creeds before the people4 ,the editor of this paper should at once emigrate to the ,state of ,delaware1 where he properly belongs4 ,he is either a native of ,delaware1 or most of his subscribers are citizens of that country2 or1 it may be that he is a lineal descendant of some ,hessian1 who deserted during the ,revolutionary war4 ,most of the newspapers in the ,united ,states are advocates of mental freedom4 ,probably nothing on earth has been so potent for good as an untrammeled1 fearless press4 ,among the papers of importance there is not a solitary exception4 ,no leading journal in the ,united ,states can be found upon the side of intellectual slavery4 ,of course1 a few rural sheets edited by gentlemen1 as ,mr4 ,greeley would say1 whom ,god in his inscrutable wisdom had allowed to exist1 may be found upon the other side1 and may be small enough1 weak enough and mean enough to pander to the lowest and basest prejudices of their most ignorant subscribers4 ,these editors disgrace their profession and exert about the same influence upon the heads as upon the pockets of their subscribers --that is to say1 they get little and give less4 ,question4 ,do you not think after all1 the people who are in favor of having you arrested for blasphemy1 are acting in accordance with the real spirit of the ,old and ,new ,testaments8 ,answer4 ,of course1 they act in exact accordance with many of the commands in the ,old ,testament1 and in accordance with several passages in the ,new4 ,at the same time1 it may be said that they violate passages in both4 ,if the ,old ,testament is true1 and if it is the inspired word of ,god1 of course1 an ,infidel ought not be allowed to live2 and if the ,new ,testament is true1 an unbeliever should not be permitted to speak4 ,there are many passages1 though1 in the ,new ,testament1 that should protect even an ,infidel4 ,among them is this3 ,do unto others as ye would that others should do unto you4 ,but that is a passage that has probably had as little effect upon the church as any other in the ,bible4 ,so far as ,i am concerned1 ,i am willing to adopt that passage1 and ,i am willing to extend to every other human being every right that ,i claim for myself4 ,if the churches would act upon this principle1 if they would say--every soul1 every mind1 may think and investigate for itself2 and around all1 and over all1 shall be thrown the sacred shield of liberty1 ,i should be on their side4 ,question4 ,how do you stand with the clergymen1 and what is their opinion of you and of your views8 ,answer4 ,most of them envy me2 envy my independence2 envy my success2 think that ,i ought to starve2 that the people should not hear me2 say that ,i do what ,i do for money1 for popularity2 that ,i am actuated by hatred of all that is good and tender and holy in human nature2 think that ,i wish to tear down the churches1 destroy all morality and goodness1 and usher in the reign of crime and chaos4 ,they know that shepherds are unnecessary in the absence of wolves1 and it is to their interest to convince their sheep that they1 the sheep1 need protection4 ,this they are willing to give them for half the wool4 ,no doubt1 most of these minsters are honest1 and are doing what they consider their duty4 ,be this as it may1 they feel the power slipping from their hands4 ,they know that the idea is slowly growing that they are not absolutely necessary for the protection of society4 ,they know that the intellectual world cares little for what they say1 and that the great tide of human progress flows on careless of their help or hindrance4 ,so long as they insist upon the inspiration of the ,bible1 they are compelled to take the ground that slavery was once a divine institution2 they are forced to defend cruelties that would shock the heart of a savage1 and besides1 they are bound to teach the eternal horror of everlasting punishment4 ,they poison the minds of children2 they deform the brain and pollute the imagination by teaching the frightful and infamous dogma of endless misery4 ,even the laws of ,delaware shock the enlightened public of to-day4 ,in that ,state they simply fine and imprison a man for expressing his honest thoughts2 and yet1 if the churches are right1 ,god will damn a man forever for the same offence4 ,the brain and heart of our time cannot be satisfied with the ancient creeds4 ,the ,bible must be revised again4 ,most of the creeds must be blotted out4 ,humanity must take the place of theology4 ,intellectual liberty must stand in every pulpit4 ,there must be freedom in all the pews1 and every human soul must have the right to express its honest thought4 --,washington correspondent1 ,brooklyn ,eagle1 ,march #ai1 #ahha4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,rev4 ,,mr4 ,,lansing499 99 ,rev4 ,isaac ,j4 ,lansing of ,meriden1 ,conn41 recently denounced ,col4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll from the pulpit of the ,meriden ,methodist ,church1 and had the ,opera ,house closed against him4 ,this led a ,union reporter to show ,colonel ,ingersoll what ,mr4 ,lansing had said and to interrogate him with the following result4 ,question4 ,did you favor the sending of obscene matter through the mails as alleged by the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,lansing8 ,answer4 ,of course not1 and no honest man ever thought that ,i did4 ,this charge is too malicious and silly to be answered4 ,mr4 ,lansing knows better4 ,he has made this charge many times and he will make it again4 ,question4 ,is it a fact that there are thousands of clergymen in the country whom you would fear to meet in fair debate8 ,answer4 ,no2 the fact is ,i would like to meet them all in one4 ,the pulpit is not burdened with genius4 ,there a few great men engaged in preaching1 but they are not orthodox4 ,i cannot conceive that a ,freethinker has anything to fear from the pulpit1 except misrepresentation4 ,of course1 there are thousands of ministers too small to discuss with--ministers who stand for nothing in the church--and with such clergymen ,i cannot afford to discuss anything4 ,if the ,presbyterians1 or the ,congregationalists1 or the ,methodists would select some man1 and endorse him as their champion1 ,i would like to meet him in debate4 ,such a man ,i will pay to discuss with me4 ,i will give him most excellent wages1 and pay all the expenses at the discussion besides4 ,there is but one safe course for the ministers--they must assert4 ,they must declare4 ,they must swear to it and stick to it1 but they must not try to reason4 ,question4 ,you have never seen ,rev4 ,mr4 ,lansing4 ,to the people of ,meriden and thereabouts he is well-known4 ,judging from what has been told you of his utterances and actions1 what kind of a man would you take him to be8 ,answer4 ,i would take him to be a ,christian4 ,he talks like one1 and he acts like one4 ,if ,christianity is right1 ,lansing is right4 ,if salvation depends upon belief1 and if unbelievers are to be eternally damned1 then an ,infidel has no right to speak4 ,he should not be allowed to murder the souls of his fellow-men4 ,lansing does the best he knows how4 ,he thinks that ,god hates an unbeliever1 and he tries to act like ,god4 ,lansing knows that he must have the right to slander a man whom ,god is to eternally damn4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,lansing speaks of you as a wolf coming with fangs sharpened by three hundred dollars a night to tear the lambs of his flock4 ,what do you say to that8 ,answer4 ,all ,i have to say is1 that ,i often get three times that amount1 and sometimes much more4 ,i guess his lambs can take care of themselves4 ,i am not very fond of mutton anyway4 ,such talk ,mr4 ,lansing ought to be ashamed of4 ,the idea that he is a shepherd --that he is on guard--is simply preposterous4 ,he has few sheep in his congregation that know as little on the wolf question as he does4 ,he ought to know that his sheep support him--his sheep protect him2 and without the sheep poor ,lansing would be devoured by the wolves himself4 ,question4 ,shall you sue the ,opera ,house management for breach of contract8 ,answer4 ,i guess not2 but ,i may pay ,lansing something for advertising my lecture4 ,i suppose ,mr4 ,wilcox 7who controls the ,opera ,house7 did what he thought was right4 ,i hear he is a good man4 ,he probably got a little frightened and began to think about the day of judgment4 ,he could not help it1 and ,i cannot help laughing at him4 ,question4 ,those in ,meriden who most strongly oppose you are radical ,republicans4 ,is it not a fact that you possess the confidence and friendship of some of the most respected leaders of that party8 ,answer4 ,i think that all the respectable ones are friends of mine4 ,i am a ,republican because ,i believe in the liberty of the body1 and ,i am an ,infidel because ,i believe in the liberty of the mind4 ,there is no need of freeing cages4 ,let us free the birds4 ,if ,mr4 ,lansing knew me1 he would be a great friend4 ,he would probably annoy me by the frequency and length of his visits4 ,question4 ,during the recent presidential campaign did any clergymen denounce you for your teachings1 that you are aware of8 ,answer4 ,some did1 but they would not if they had been running for office on the ,republican ticket4 ,question4 ,what is most needed in our public men8 ,answer4 ,hearts and brains4 ,question4 ,would people be any more moral solely because of a disbelief in orthodox teaching and in the ,bible as an inspired book1 in your opinion8 ,answer4 ,yes2 if a man really believes that ,god once upheld slavery2 that he commanded soldiers to kill women and babes2 that he believed in polygamy2 that he persecuted for opinion's sake2 that he will punish forever1 and that he hates an unbeliever1 the effect in my judgment will be bad4 ,it always has been bad4 ,this belief built the dungeons of the ,inquisition4 ,this belief made the ,puritan murder the ,quaker1 and this belief has raised the devil with ,mr4 ,lansing4 ,question4 ,do you believe there will ever be a millennium1 and if so how will it come about8 ,answer4 ,it will probably start in ,meriden1 as ,i have been informed that ,lansing is going to leave4 ,question4 ,is there anything else bearing upon the question at issue or that would make good reading1 that ,i have forgotten1 that you would like to say8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,good-bye4 --,the ,sunday ,union1 ,new ,haven1 ,conn41 ,april #aj1 #ahha4 ,,beaconsfield1 ,,lent ,,and ,,revivals4 ,question4 ,what have you to say about the attack of ,dr4 ,buckley on you1 and your lecture8 ,answer4 ,i never heard of ,dr4 ,buckley until after ,i had lectured in ,brooklyn4 ,he seems to think that it was extremely ill bred in me to deliver a lecture on the ,liberty of ,man1 ,woman and ,child1 during ,lent4 ,lent is just as good as any other part of the year1 and no part can be too good to do good4 ,it was not a part of my object to hurt the feelings of the ,episcopalians and ,catholics4 ,if they think that there is some subtle relation between hunger and heaven1 or that faith depends upon1 or is strengthened by famine1 or that veal1 during ,lent1 is the enemy of virtue1 or that beef breeds blasphemy1 while fish feeds faith--of course1 all this is nothing to me4 ,they have a right to say that vice depends upon victuals1 sanctity on soup1 religion on rice and chastity on cheese1 but they have no right to say that a lecture on liberty is an insult to them because they are hungry4 ,i suppose that ,lent was instituted in memory of the ,savior's fast4 ,at one time it was supposed that only a divine being could live forty days without food4 ,this supposition has been overthrown4 ,it has been demonstrated by ,dr4 ,tanner to be utterly without foundation4 ,what possible good did it do the world for ,christ to go without food for forty days8 ,why should we follow such an example8 ,as a rule1 hungry people are cross1 contrary1 obstinate1 peevish and unpleasant4 ,a good dinner puts a man at peace with all the world--makes him generous1 good natured and happy4 ,he feels like kissing his wife and children4 ,the future looks bright4 ,he wants to help the needy4 ,the good in him predominates1 and he wonders that any man was ever stingy or cruel4 ,your good cook is a civilizer1 and without good food1 well prepared1 intellectual progress is simply impossible4 ,most of the orthodox creeds were born of bad cooking4 ,bad food produced dyspepsia1 and dyspepsia produced ,calvinism1 and ,calvinism is the cancer of ,christianity4 ,oatmeal is responsible for the worst features of ,scotch ,presbyterianism4 ,half cooked beans account for the religion of the ,puritans4 ,fried bacon and saleratus biscuit underlie the doctrine of ,state ,rights4 ,lent is a mistake1 fasting is a blunder1 and bad cooking is a crime4 ,question4 ,it is stated that you went to ,brooklyn while ,beecher and ,talmage were holding revivals1 and that you did so for the purpose of breaking them up4 ,how is this8 ,answer4 ,i had not the slightest idea of interfering with the revivals4 ,they amounted to nothing4 ,they were not alive enough to be killed4 ,surely one lecture could not destroy two revivals4 ,still1 ,i think that if all the persons engaged in the revivals had spent the same length of time in cleaning the streets1 the good result would have been more apparent4 ,the truth is1 that the old way of converting people will have to be abandoned4 ,the ,americans are getting hard to scare1 and a revival without the scare is scarcely worth holding4 ,such maniacs as ,hammond and the ,boy ,preacher fill asylums and terrify children4 ,after saying what he has about hell1 ,mr4 ,beecher ought to know that he is not the man to conduct a revival4 ,a revival sermon with hell left out--with the brimstone gone--with the worm that never dies1 dead1 and the ,devil absent--is the broadest farce4 ,mr4 ,talmage believes in the ancient way4 ,with him hell is a burning reality4 ,he can hear the shrieks and groans4 ,he is of that order of mind that rejoices in these things4 ,if he could only convince others1 he would be a great revivalist4 ,he cannot terrify1 he astonishes4 ,he is the clown of the horrible--one of ,jehovah's jesters4 ,i am not responsible for the revival failure in ,brooklyn4 ,i wish ,i were4 ,i would have the happiness of knowing that ,i had been instrumental in preserving the sanity of my fellow-men4 ,question4 ,how do you account for these attacks8 ,answer4 ,it was not so much what ,i said that excited the wrath of the reverend gentlemen as the fact that ,i had a great house4 ,they contrasted their failure with my success4 ,the fact is1 the people are getting tired of the old ideas4 ,they are beginning to think for themselves4 ,eternal punishment seems to them like eternal revenge4 ,they see that ,christ could not atone for the sins of others2 that belief ought not to be rewarded and honest doubt punished forever2 that good deeds are better than bad creeds1 and that liberty is the rightful heritage of every soul4 ,question4 ,were you an admirer of ,lord ,beaconsfield8 ,answer4 ,in some respects4 ,he was on our side during the war1 and gave it as his opinion that the ,union would be preserved4 ,mr4 ,gladstone congratulated ,jefferson ,davis on having founded a new nation4 ,i shall never forget ,beaconsfield for his kindness1 nor ,gladstone for his malice4 ,beaconsfield was an intellectual gymnast1 a political athlete1 one of the most adroit men in the world4 ,he had the persistence of his race4 ,in spite of the prejudices of eighteen hundred years1 he rose to the highest position that can be occupied by a citizen4 ,during his administration ,england again became a ,continental power and played her game of ,european chess4 ,i have never regarded ,beaconsfield as a man controlled by principle1 or by his heart4 ,he was strictly a politician4 ,he always acted as though he thought the clubs were looking at him4 ,he knew all the arts belonging to his trade4 ,he would have succeeded anywhere1 if by succeeding is meant the attainment of position and power4 ,but after all1 such men are splendid failures4 ,they give themselves and others a great deal of trouble--they wear the tinsel crown of temporary success and then fade from public view4 ,they astonish the pit1 they gain the applause of the galleries1 but when the curtain falls there is nothing left to benefit mankind4 ,beaconsfield held convictions somewhat in contempt4 ,he had the imagination of the ,east united with the ambition of an ,englishman4 ,with him1 to succeed was to have done right4 ,question4 ,what do you think of him as an author8 ,answer4 ,most of his characters are like himself--puppets moved by the string of self-interest4 ,the men are adroit1 the women mostly heartless4 ,they catch each other with false bait4 ,they have great worldly wisdom4 ,their virtue and vice are mechanical4 ,they have hearts like clocks--filled with wheels and springs4 ,the author winds them up4 ,in his novels ,disraeli allows us to enter the greenroom of his heart4 ,we see the ropes1 the pulleys and the old masks4 ,in all things1 in politics and in literature1 he was cold1 cunning1 accurate1 able and successful4 ,his books will1 in a little while1 follow their author to their grave4 ,after all1 the good will live longest4 --,washington correspondent1 ,brooklyn ,eagle1 ,april #bd1 #ahha4 ,,answering ,,the ,,new ,,york ,,ministers499 99 ,ever since ,colonel ,ingersoll began the delivery of his lecture called ,the ,great ,infidels1 the ministers of the country have made him the subject of special attack4 ,one week ago last ,sunday the majority of the leading ministers in ,new ,york made replies to ,ingersoll's latest lecture4 ,what he has to say to these replies will be found in a report of an interview with ,colonel ,ingersoll4 ,no man is harder to pin down for a long talk than the ,colonel4 ,he is so beset with visitors and eager office seekers anxious for help1 that he can hardly find five minutes unoccupied during an entire day4 ,through the shelter of a private room and the guardianship of a stout colored servant1 the ,colonel was able to escape the crowd of seekers after his personal charity long enough to give some time to answer some of the ministerial arguments advanced against him in ,new ,york4 ,question4 ,have you seen the attacks made upon you by certain ministers of ,new ,york1 published in the ,herald last ,sunday8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i read1 or heard read1 what was in ,monday's ,herald4 ,i do not know that you could hardly call them attacks4 ,they are substantially a repetition of what the pulpit has been saying for a great many hundred years1 and what the pulpit will say just so long as men are paid for suppressing truth and for defending superstition4 ,one of these gentlemen tells the lambs of his flock that three thousand men and a few women--probably with quite an emphasis on the word ,few--gave one dollar each to hear their ,maker cursed and their ,savior ridiculed4 ,probably nothing is so hard for the average preacher to bear as the fact that people are not only willing to hear the other side1 but absolutely anxious to pay for it4 ,the dollar that these people paid hurt their feelings vastly more than what was said after they were in4 ,of course1 it is a frightful commentary on the average intellect of the pulpit that a minister cannot get so large an audience when he preaches for nothing1 as an ,infidel can draw at a dollar a head4 ,if ,i depended upon a contribution box1 or upon passing a saucer that would come back to the stage enriched with a few five cent pieces1 eight or ten dimes1 and a lonesome quarter1 these gentlemen would1 in all probability1 imagine ,infidelity was not to be feared4 ,the churches were all open on that ,sunday1 and all could go who desired4 ,yet they were not full1 and the pews were nearly as empty of people as the pulpit of ideas4 ,the truth is1 the story is growing old1 the ideas somewhat moss-covered1 and everything has a wrinkled and withered appearance4 ,this gentleman says that these people went to hear their ,maker cursed and their ,savior ridiculed4 ,is it possible that in a city where so many steeples pierce the air1 and hundreds of sermons are preached every ,sunday1 there are three thousand men1 and a few women1 so anxious to hear their ,maker cursed and their ,savior ridiculed that they are willing to pay a dollar each8 ,the gentleman knew that nobody cursed anybody's ,maker4 ,he knew that the statement was utterly false and without the slightest foundation4 ,he also knew that nobody had ridiculed the ,savior of anybody1 but1 on the contrary1 that ,i had paid a greater tribute to the character of ,jesus ,christ than any minister in ,new ,york has the capacity to do4 ,certainly it is not cursing the ,maker of anybody to say that the ,god described in the ,old ,testament is not the real ,god4 ,certainly it is not cursing ,god to declare that the real ,god never sanctioned slavery or polygamy1 or commanded wars of extermination1 or told a husband to separate from his wife if she differed with him in religion4 ,the people who say these things of ,god--if there is any ,god at all--do what little there is in their power1 unwittingly of course1 to destroy his reputation4 ,but ,i have done something to rescue the reputation of the ,deity from the slanders of the pulpit4 ,if there is any ,god1 ,i expect to find myself credited on the heavenly books for my defence of him4 ,i did say that our civilization is due not to piety1 but to ,infidelity4 ,i did say that every great reformer had been denounced as an ,infidel in his day and generation4 ,i did say that ,christ was an ,infidel1 and that he was treated in his day very much as the orthodox preachers treat an honest man now4 ,i did say that he was tried for blasphemy and crucified by bigots4 ,i did say that he hated and despised the church of his time1 and that he denounced the most pious people of ,jerusalem as thieves and vipers4 ,and ,i suggested that should he come again he might have occasion to repeat the remarks that he then made4 ,at the same time ,i admitted that there are thousands and thousands of ,christians who are exceedingly good people4 ,i never did pretend that the fact that a man was a ,christian even tended to show that he was a bad man4 ,neither have ,i ever insisted that the fact that a man is an ,infidel even tends to show what1 in other respects1 his character is4 ,but ,i always have said1 and ,i always expect to say1 that a ,christian who does not believe in absolute intellectual liberty is a curse to mankind1 and that an ,infidel who does believe in absolute intellectual liberty is a blessing to this world4 ,we cannot expect all ,infidels to be good1 nor all ,christians to be bad1 and we might make some mistakes even if we selected these people ourselves4 ,it is admitted by the ,christians that ,christ made a great mistake when he selected ,judas4 ,this was a mistake of over eight per cent4 ,chaplain ,newman takes pains to compare some great ,christians with some great ,infidels4 ,he compares ,washington with ,julian1 and insists1 ,i suppose1 that ,washington was a great ,christian4 ,certainly he is not very familiar with the history of ,washington1 or he never would claim that he was particularly distinguished in his day for what is generally known as vital piety4 ,that he went through the ordinary forms of ,christianity nobody disputes4 ,that he listened to sermons without paying any particular attention to them1 no one will deny4 ,julian1 of course1 was somewhat prejudiced against ,christianity1 but that he was one of the greatest men of antiquity no one acquainted with the history of ,rome can honestly dispute4 ,when he was made emperor he found at the palace hundreds of gentlemen who acted as barbers1 hair-combers1 and brushers for the emperor4 ,he dismissed them all1 remarking that he was able to wash himself4 ,these dismissed office-holders started the story that he was dirty in his habits1 and a minister of the nineteenth century was found silly enough to believe the story4 ,another thing that probably got him into disrepute in that day1 he had no private chaplains4 ,as a matter of fact1 ,julian was forced to pretend that he was a ,christian in order to save his life4 ,the ,christians of that day were of such a loving nature that any man who differed with them was forced to either fall a victim to their ferocity or seek safety in subterfuge4 ,the real crime that ,julian committed1 and the only one that has burned itself into the very heart and conscience of the ,christian world1 is1 that he transferred the revenues of the ,christian churches to heathen priests4 ,whoever stands between a priest and his salary will find that he has committed the unpardonable sin commonly known as the sin against the ,holy ,ghost4 ,this gentleman also compares ,luther with ,voltaire4 ,if he will read the life of ,luther by ,lord ,brougham1 he will find that in his ordinary conversation he was exceedingly low and vulgar1 and that no respectable ,english publisher could be found who would soil paper with the translation4 ,if he will take the pains to read an essay by ,macaulay1 he will find that twenty years after the death of ,luther there were more ,catholics than when he was born4 ,and that twenty years after the death of ,voltaire there were millions less than when he was born4 ,if he will take just a few moments to think1 he will find that the last victory of ,protestantism was in ,holland2 that there has never been one since1 and will never be another4 ,if he would really like to think1 and enjoy for a few moments the luxury of having an idea1 let him ponder for a little while over the instructive fact that languages having their root in the ,latin have generally been spoken in ,catholic countries1 and that those languages having their root in the ancient ,german are now mostly spoken by people of ,protestant proclivities4 ,it may occur to him1 after thinking of this a while1 that there is something deeper in the question than he has as yet perceived4 ,luther's last victory1 as ,i said before1 was in ,holland2 but the victory of ,voltaire goes on from day to day4 ,protestantism is not holding its own with ,catholicism1 even in the ,united ,states4 ,i saw the other day the statistics1 ,i believe1 of the city of ,chicago1 showing that1 while the city had increased two or three hundred per cent41 ,protestantism had lagged behind at the rate of twelve per cent4 ,i am willing for one1 to have the whole question depend upon a comparison of the worth and work of ,voltaire and ,luther4 ,it may be1 too1 that the gentleman forgot to tell us that ,luther himself gave consent to a person high in office to have two wives1 but prudently suggested to him that he had better keep it as still as possible4 ,luther was1 also1 a believer in a personal ,devil4 ,he thought that deformed children had been begotten by an evil spirit4 ,on one occasion he told a mother that1 in his judgment1 she had better drown her child2 that he had no doubt that the ,devil was its father4 ,this same ,luther made this observation3 ,universal toleration is universal error1 and universal error is universal hell4 ,from this you will see that he was an exceedingly good man1 but mistaken upon many questions4 ,so1 too1 he laughed at the ,copernican system1 and wanted to know if those fool astronomers could undo the work of ,god4 ,he probably knew as little about science as the reverend gentleman does about history4 ,question4 ,does he compare any other ,infidels with ,christians8 ,answer4 ,oh1 yes2 he compares ,lord ,bacon with ,diderot4 ,i have never claimed that ,diderot was a saint4 ,i have simply insisted that he was a great man2 that he was grand enough to say that incredulity is the beginning of philosophy2 that he had sense enough to know that the ,god described by the ,catholics and ,protestants of his day was simply an impossible monster2 and that he also had the brain to see that the little selfish heaven occupied by a few monks and nuns and idiots they had fleeced1 was hardly worth going to2 in other words1 that he was a man of common sense1 greatly in advance of his time1 and that he did what he could to increase the sum of human enjoyment to the end that there might be more happiness in this world4 ,the gentleman compares him with ,lord ,bacon1 and yet1 if he will read the trials of that day--,i think in the year #afbj--;he will find that the ,christian ,lord ,bacon1 the pious ,lord ,bacon1 was charged with receiving pay for his opinions1 and1 in some instances1 pay from both sides2 that the ,christian ,lord ,bacon1 at first upon his honor as a ,christian lord1 denied the whole business2 that afterward the ,christian ,lord ,bacon1 upon his honor as a ,christian lord1 admitted the truth of the whole business1 and that1 therefore1 the ,christian ,lord ,bacon was convicted and sentenced to pay a fine of forty thousand pounds1 and rendered infamous and incapable of holding any office4 ,now1 understand me1 ,i do not think ,bacon took bribes because he was a ,christian1 because there have been many ,christian judges perfectly honest2 but1 if the statement of the reverend gentlemen of ,new ,york is true1 his being a ,christian did not prevent his taking bribes4 ,and right here allow me to thank the gentleman with all my heart for having spoken of ,lord ,bacon in this connection4 ,i have always admired the genius of ,bacon1 and have always thought of his fall with an aching heart1 and would not now have spoken of his crime had not his character been flung in my face by a gentleman who asks his ,god to kill me for having expressed my honest thought4 ,the same gentleman compares ,newton with ,spinoza4 ,in the first place1 there is no ground of parallel4 ,newton was a very great man and a very justly celebrated mathematician4 ,as a matter of fact1 he is not celebrated for having discovered the law of gravitation4 ,that was known for thousands of years before he was born2 and if the reverend gentleman would read a little more he would find that ,newton's discovery was not that there is such a law as gravitation1 but that bodies attract each other with a force proportional directly to the quantity of matter they contain1 and inversely to the squares of their distances4 ,i do not think he made the discoveries on account of his ,christianity4 ,laplace was certainly in many respects as great a mathematician and astronomer1 but he was not a ,christian4 ,descartes was certainly not much inferior to ,newton as a mathematician1 and thousands insist that he was his superior2 yet he was not a ,christian4 ,euclid1 if ,i remember right1 was not a ,christian1 and yet he had quite a turn for mathematics4 ,as a matter of fact1 ,christianity got its idea of algebra from the ,mohammedans1 and1 without algebra1 astronomical knowledge of to-day would have been impossible4 ,christianity did not even invent figures4 ,we got those from the ,arabs4 ,the very word algebra is ,arabic4 ,the decimal system1 ,i believe1 however1 was due to a ,german1 but whether he was a ,christian or not1 ,i do not know4 ,we find that the ,chinese calculated eclipses long before ,christ was born2 and1 exactness being the rule at that time1 there is an account of two astronomers having been beheaded for failing to tell the coming of an eclipse to the minute2 yet they were not ,christians4 ,there is another fact connected with ,newton1 and that is that he wrote a commentary on the ,book of ,revelation4 ,the probability is that a sillier commentary was never written4 ,it was so perfectly absurd and laughable that some one--,i believe it was ,voltaire--said that while ,newton had excited the envy of the intellectual world by his mathematical accomplishments1 it had gotten even with him the moment his commentaries were published4 ,spinoza was not a mathematician1 particularly4 ,he was a metaphysician1 an honest thinker1 whose influence is felt1 and will be felt so long as these great questions have the slightest interest for the human brain4 ,he also compares ,chalmers with ,hume4 ,chalmers gained his notoriety from preaching what are known as the astronomical sermons1 and1 ,i suppose1 was quite a preacher in his day4 ,but ,hume was a thinker1 and his works will live for ages after ,mr4 ,chalmers' sermons will have been forgotten4 ,mr4 ,chalmers has never been prominent enough to have been well known by many people4 ,he may have been an exceedingly good man1 and derived1 during his life1 great consolation from a belief in the damnation of infants4 ,mr4 ,newman also compares ,wesley with ,thomas ,paine4 ,when ,thomas ,paine was in favor of human liberty1 ,wesley was against it4 ,thomas ,paine wrote a pamphlet called ,common ,sense1 urging the colonies to separate themselves from ,great ,britain4 ,wesley wrote a treatise on the other side4 ,he was the enemy of human liberty2 and if his advice could have been followed we would have been the colonies of ,great ,britain still4 ,we never would have had a ,president in need of a private chaplain4 ,mr4 ,wesley had not a scientific mind4 ,he preached a sermon once on the cause and cure of earthquakes1 taking the ground that earthquakes were caused by sins1 and that the only way to stop them was to believe on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ4 ,he also laid down some excellent rules for rearing children1 that is1 from a ,methodist standpoint4 ,his rules amounted to about this3 ,first4 ,never give them what they want4 ,second4 ,never give them what you intend to give them1 at the time they want it4 ,third4 ,break their wills at the earliest possible moment4 ,mr4 ,wesley made every family an inquisition1 every father and mother inquisitors1 and all the children helpless victims4 ,one of his homes would give an exceedingly vivid idea of hell4 ,at the same time1 ,mr4 ,wesley was a believer in witches and wizards1 and knew all about the ,devil4 ,at his request ,god performed many miracles4 ,on several occasions he cured his horse of lameness4 ,on others1 dissipated ,mr4 ,wesley's headaches4 ,now and then he put off rain on account of a camp meeting1 and at other times stopped the wind blowing at the special request of ,mr4 ,wesley4 ,i have no doubt that ,mr4 ,wesley was honest in all this1--just as honest as he was mistaken4 ,and ,i also admit that he was the founder of a church that does extremely well in new countries1 and that thousands of ,methodists have been exceedingly good men4 ,but ,i deny that he ever did anything for human liberty4 ,while ,mr4 ,wesley was fighting the ,devil and giving his experience with witches and wizards1 ,thomas ,paine helped to found a free nation1 helped to enrich the air with another flag4 ,wesley was right on one thing1 though4 ,he was opposed to slavery1 and1 ,i believe1 called it the sum of all villainies4 ,i have always been obliged to him for that4 ,i do not think he said it because he was a ,methodist2 but ,methodism1 as he understood it1 did not prevent his saying it1 and ,methodism as others understood it1 did not prevent men from being slaveholders1 did not prevent them from selling babes from mothers1 and in the name of ,god beating the naked back of toil4 ,i think1 on the whole1 ,paine did more for the world than ,mr4 ,wesley4 ,the difference between an average ,methodist and an average ,episcopalian is not worth quarreling about4 ,but the difference between a man who believes in despotism and one who believes in liberty is almost infinite4 ,wesley changed ,episcopalians into ,methodists2 ,paine turned lickspittles into men4 ,let it be understood1 once for all1 that ,i have never claimed that ,paine was perfect4 ,i was very glad that the reverend gentleman admitted that he was a patriot and the foe of tyrants2 that he sympathized with the oppressed1 and befriended the helpless2 that he favored religious toleration1 and that he weakened the power of the ,catholic ,church4 ,i am glad that he made these admissions4 ,whenever it can be truthfully said of a man that he loved his country1 hated tyranny1 sympathized with the oppressed1 and befriended the helpless1 nothing more is necessary4 ,if ,god can afford to damn such a man1 such a man can afford to be damned4 ,while ,paine was the foe of tyrants1 ,christians were the tyrants4 ,when he sympathized with the oppressed1 the oppressed were the victims of ,christians4 ,when he befriended the helpless1 the helpless were the victims of ,christians4 ,paine never founded an inquisition2 never tortured a human being2 never hoped that anybody's tongue would be paralyzed1 and was always opposed to private chaplains4 ,it might be well for the reverend gentleman to continue his comparisons1 and find eminent ,christians to put1 for instance1 along with ,humboldt1 the ,shakespeare of science2 somebody by the side of ,darwin1 as a naturalist2 some gentleman in ,england to stand with ,tyndall1 or ,huxley2 some ,christian ,german to stand with ,haeckel and ,helmholtz4 ,may be he knows some ,christian statesman that he would compare with ,gambetta4 ,i would advise him to continue his parallels4 ,question4 ,what have you to say of the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,fulton8 ,answer4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,fulton is a great friend of mine4 ,i am extremely sorry to find that he still believes in a personal ,devil1 and ,i greatly regret that he imagines that this ,devil has so much power that he can take possession of a human being and deprive ,god of their services4 ,it is in sorrow and not in anger1 that ,i find that he still believes in this ancient superstition4 ,i also regret that he imagines that ,i am leading young men to eternal ruin4 ,it occurs to me that if there is an infinite ,god1 he ought not to allow anybody to lead young men to eternal ruin4 ,if anything ,i have said1 or am going to say1 has a tendency to lead young men to eternal ruin1 ,i hope that if there is a ,god with the power to prevent me1 that he will use it4 ,dr4 ,fulton admits that in politics ,i am on the right side4 ,i presume he makes this concession because he is a ,republican4 ,i am in favor of universal education1 of absolute intellectual liberty4 ,i am in favor1 also1 of equal rights to all4 ,as ,i have said before we have spent millions and millions of dollars and rivers of blood to free the bodies of men2 in other words1 we have been freeing the cages4 ,my proposition now is to give a little liberty to the birds4 ,i am not willing to stop where a man can simply reap the fruit of his hand4 ,i wish him1 also1 to enjoy the liberty of his brain4 ,i am not against any truth in the ,new ,testament4 ,i did say that ,i objected to religion because it made enemies and not friends4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 says that is one reason why he likes religion4 ,dr4 ,fulton tells me that the ,bible is the gift of ,god to man4 ,he also tells me that the ,bible is true1 and that ,god is its author4 ,if the ,bible is true and ,god is its author1 then ,god was in favor of slavery four thousand years ago4 ,he was also in favor of polygamy and religious intolerance4 ,in other words1 four thousand years ago he occupied the exact position the ,devil is supposed to occupy now4 ,if the ,bible teaches anything it teaches man to enslave his brother1 that is to say1 if his brother is a heathen4 ,the ,god of the ,bible always hated heathens4 ,dr4 ,fulton also says that the ,bible is the basis of all law4 ,yet1 if the ,legislature of ,new ,york would re-enact next winter the ,mosaic code1 the members might consider themselves lucky if they were not hung upon their return home4 ,probably ,dr4 ,fulton thinks that had it not been for the ,ten ,commandments1 nobody would ever have thought that stealing was wrong4 ,i have always had an idea that men objected to stealing because the industrious did not wish to support the idle2 and ,i have a notion that there has always been a law against murder1 because a large majority of people have always objected to being murdered4 ,if he will read his ,old ,testament with care1 he will find that ,god violated most of his own commandments--all except that ,thou shalt worship no other ,god before me1 and1 may be1 the commandment against work on the ,sabbath day4 ,with these two exceptions ,i am satisfied that ,god himself violated all the rest4 ,he told his chosen people to rob the ,gentiles2 that violated the commandment against stealing4 ,he said himself that he had sent out lying spirits2 that certainly was a violation of another commandment4 ,he ordered soldiers to kill men1 women and babes2 that was a violation of another4 ,he also told them to divide the maidens among the soldiers2 that was a substantial violation of another4 ,one of the commandments was that you should not covet your neighbor's property4 ,in that commandment you will find that a man's wife is put on an equality with his ox4 ,yet his chosen people were allowed not only to covet the property of the ,gentiles1 but to take it4 ,if ,dr4 ,fulton will read a little more1 he will find that all the good laws in the ,decalogue had been in force in ,egypt a century before ,moses was born4 ,he will find that like laws and many better ones were in force in ,india and ,china1 long before ,moses knew what a bulrush was4 ,if he will think a little while1 he will find that one of the ,ten ,commandments1 the one on the subject of graven images1 was bad4 ,the result of that was that ,palestine never produced a painter1 or a sculptor1 and that no ,jew became famous in art until long after the destruction of ,jerusalem4 ,a commandment that robs a people of painting and statuary is not a good one4 ,the idea of the ,bible being the basis of law is almost too silly to be seriously refuted4 ,i admit that ,i did say that ,shakespeare was the greatest man who ever lived2 and ,dr4 ,fulton says in regard to this statement1 ,what foolishness6 ,he then proceeds to insult his audience by telling them that while many of them have copies of ,shakespeare's works in their houses1 they have not read twenty pages of them4 ,this fact may account for their attending his church and being satisfied with that sermon4 ,i do not believe to-day that ,shakespeare is more influential than the ,bible1 but what influence ,shakespeare has1 is for good4 ,no man can read it without having his intellectual wealth increased4 ,when you read it1 it is not necessary to throw away your reason4 ,neither will you be damned if you do not understand it4 ,it is a book that appeals to everything in the human brain4 ,in that book can be found the wisdom of all ages4 ,long after the ,bible has passed out of existence1 the name of ,shakespeare will lead the intellectual roster of the world4 ,dr4 ,fulton says there is not one work in the ,bible that teaches that slavery or polygamy is right4 ,he also states that ,i know it4 ,if language has meaning--if words have sense1 or the power to convey thought1--what did ,god mean when he told the ,israelites to buy of the heathen round about1 and that the heathen should be their bondmen and bondmaids forever8 ,what did ,god mean when he said1 ,if a man strike his servant so he dies1 he should not be punished1 because his servant was his money8 ,passages like these can be quoted beyond the space that any paper is willing to give4 ,yet the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,fulton denies that the ,old ,testament upholds slavery4 ,i would like to ask him if the ,old ,testament is in favor of religious toleration8 ,if ,god wrote the ,old ,testament and afterward came upon the earth as ,jesus ,christ1 and taught a new religion1 and the ,jews crucified him1 was this not in accordance with his own law1 and was he not1 after all1 the victim of himself8 ,question4 ,what about the other ministers8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i see in the ,herald that some ten have said that they would reply to me4 ,i have selected the two1 simply because they came first4 ,i think they are about as poor as any2 and you know it is natural to attack those who are the easiest answered4 ,all these ministers are now acting as my agents1 and are doing me all the good they can by saying all the bad things about me they can think of4 ,they imagine that their congregations have not grown1 and they talk to them as though they were living in the seventeenth instead of the nineteenth century4 ,the truth is1 the pews are beyond the pulpit1 and the modern sheep are now protecting the shepherds4 ,question4 ,have you noticed a great change in public sentiment in the last three or four years8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i think there are ten times as many ,infidels to- day as there were ten years ago4 ,i am amazed at the great change that has taken place in public opinion4 ,the churches are not getting along well4 ,there are hundreds and hundreds who have not had a new member in a year4 ,the young men are not satisfied with the old ideas4 ,they find that the church1 after all1 is opposed to learning2 that it is the enemy of progress2 that it says to every young man1 ,go slow4 ,don't allow your knowledge to puff you up4 ,recollect that reason is a dangerous thing4 ,you had better be a little ignorant here for the sake of being an angel hereafter1 than quite a smart young man and get damned at last4 ,the church warns them against ,humboldt and ,darwin1 and tells them how much nobler it is to come from mud than from monkeys2 that they were made from mud4 ,every college professor is afraid to tell what he thinks1 and every student detects the cowardice4 ,the result is that the young men have lost confidence in the creeds of the day and propose to do a little thinking for themselves4 ,they still have a kind of tender pity for the old folks1 and pretend to believe some things they do not1 rather than hurt grandmother's feelings4 ,in the presence of the preachers they talk about the weather or other harmless subjects1 for fear of bruising the spirit of their pastor4 ,every minister likes to consider himself as a brave shepherd leading the lambs through the green pastures and defending them at night from ,infidel wolves4 ,all this he does for a certain share of the wool4 ,others regard the church as a kind of social organization1 as a good way to get into society4 ,they wish to attend sociables1 drink tea1 and contribute for the conversion of the heathen4 ,it is always so pleasant to think that there is somebody worse than you are1 whose reformation you can help pay for4 ,i find1 too1 that the young women are getting tired of the old doctrines1 and that everywhere1 all over this country1 the power of the pulpit wanes and weakens4 ,i find in my lectures that the applause is just in proportion to the radicalism of the thought expressed4 ,our war was a great educator1 when the whole people of the ,north rose up grandly in favor of human liberty4 ,for many years the great question of human rights was discussed from every stump4 ,every paper was filled with splendid sentiments4 ,an application of those doctrines--doctrines born in war--will forever do away with the bondage of superstition4 ,when man has been free in body for a little time1 he will become free in mind1 and the man who says1 ,i have a equal right with other men to work and reap the reward of my labor1 will say1 ,i have1 also1 an equal right to think and reap the reward of my thought4 ,in old times there was a great difference between a clergyman and a layman4 ,the clergyman was educated2 the peasant was ignorant4 ,the tables have been turned4 ,the thought of the world is with the laymen4 ,they are the intellectual pioneers1 the mental leaders1 and the ministers are following on behind1 predicting failure and disaster1 sighing for the good old times when their word ended discussion4 ,there is another good thing1 and that is the revision of the ,bible4 ,hundreds of passages have been found to be interpolations1 and future revisers will find hundreds more4 ,the foundation crumbles4 ,that book1 called the basis of all law and civilization1 has to be civilized itself4 ,we have outgrown it4 ,our laws are better2 our institutions grander2 our objects and aims nobler and higher4 ,question4 ,do many people write to you upon this subject2 and what spirit do they manifest8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i get a great many anonymous letters--some letters in which ,god is asked to strike me dead1 others of an exceedingly insulting character1 others almost idiotic1 others exceedingly malicious1 and others insane1 others written in an exceedingly good spirit1 winding up with the information that ,i must certainly be damned4 ,others express wonder that ,god allowed me to live at all1 and that1 having made the mistake1 he does not instantly correct it by killing me4 ,others prophesy that ,i will yet be a minister of the gospel2 but1 as there has never been any softening of the brain in our family1 ,i imagine that the prophecy will never by fulfilled4 ,lately1 on opening a letter and seeing that it is upon this subject1 and without a signature1 ,i throw it aside without reading4 ,i have so often found them to be so grossly ignorant1 insulting and malicious1 that as a rule ,i read them no more4 ,question4 ,of the hundreds of people who call upon you nearly every day to ask your help1 do any of them ever discriminate against you on account of your ,infidelity8 ,answer4 ,no one who has asked a favor of me objects to my religion1 or1 rather1 to my lack of it4 ,a great many people do come to me for assistance of one kind or another4 ,but ,i have never yet asked a man or woman whether they were religious or not1 to what church they belonged1 or any questions upon the subject4 ,i think ,i have done favors for persons of most denominations4 ,it never occurs to me whether they are ,christians or ,infidels4 ,i do not care4 ,of course1 ,i do not expect that ,christians will treat me the same as though ,i belonged to their church4 ,i have never expected it4 ,in some instances ,i have been disappointed4 ,i have some excellent friends who disagree with me entirely upon the subject of religion4 ,my real opinion is that secretly they like me because ,i am not a ,christian1 and those who do not like me envy the liberty ,i enjoy4 --,new ,york correspondent1 ,chicago ,times1 ,may #bi1 #ahha4 ,,guiteau ,,and ,,his ,,crime499 99 ,our ,royal ,bob was found by ,the ,gazette1 in the gloaming of a delicious evening1 during the past week1 within the open portals of his friendly residence1 dedicated by the gracious presence within to a simple and cordial hospitality1 to the charms of friendship and the freedom of an abounding comradeship4 ,with intellectual and untrammeled life1 a generous1 wise and genial host1 whoever enters finds a welcome1 seasoned with kindly wit and ,attic humor1 a poetic insight and a delicious frankness which renders an evening there a veritable symposium4 ,the wayfarer who passes is charmed1 and he who comes frequently1 goes always away with delighted memories4 ,what matters it that we differ8 such as he and his make our common life the sweeter4 ,an hour or two spent in the attractive parlors of the ,ingersoll homestead1 amid that rare group1 lends a newer meaning to the idea of home and a more secure beauty to the fact of family life4 ,during the past exciting three weeks ,colonel ,ingersoll has been a busy man4 ,he holds no office4 ,no position could lend him an additional crown and even recognition is no longer necessary4 ,but it has been well that amid the first fierce fury of anger and excitement1 and the subsequent more bitter if not as noble outpouring of faction's suspicions and innuendoes1 that so manly a man1 so sagacious a counsellor1 has been enabled to hold so positive a balance4 ,cabinet officers1 legal functionaries1 detectives1 citizens--all have felt the wise1 humane instincts1 and the capacious brain of this marked man affecting and influencing for this fair equipoise and calmer judgment4 ,conversing freely on the evening of this visit1 ,colonel ,ingersoll1 in the abundance of his pleasure at the ,white ,house news1 submitted to be interviewed1 and with the following result4 ,question4 ,by-the-way1 ,colonel1 you knew ,guiteau slightly1 we believe4 ,are you aware that it has been attempted to show that some money loaned or given him by yourself was really what he purchased the pistol with8 ,answer4 ,i knew ,guiteau slightly2 ,i saw him for the first time a few days after the inauguration4 ,he wanted a consulate1 and asked me to give him a letter to ,secretary ,blaine4 ,i refused1 on the ground that ,i didn't know him4 ,afterwards he wanted me to lend him twenty-five dollars1 and ,i declined4 ,i never loaned him a dollar in the world4 ,if ,i had1 ,i should not feel that ,i was guilty of trying to kill the ,president4 ,on the principle that one would hold the man guilty who had innocently loaned the money with which he bought the pistol1 you might convict the tailor who made his clothes4 ,if he had had no clothes he would not have gone to the depot naked1 and the crime would not have been committed4 ,it is hard enough for the man who did lend him the money to lose that1 without losing his reputation besides4 ,nothing can exceed the utter absurdity of what has been said upon this subject4 ,question4 ,how did ,guiteau impress you and what have you remembered1 ,colonel1 of his efforts to reply to your lectures8 ,answer4 ,i do not know that ,guiteau impressed me in any way4 ,he appeared like most other folks in search of a place or employment4 ,i suppose he was in need4 ,he talked about the same as other people1 and claimed that ,i ought to help him because he was from ,chicago4 ,the second time he came to see me he said that he hoped ,i had no prejudice against him on account of what he had said about me4 ,i told him that ,i never knew he had said anything against me4 ,i suppose now that he referred to what he had said in his lectures4 ,he went about the country replying to me4 ,i have seen one or two of his lectures4 ,he used about the same arguments that ,mr4 ,black uses in his reply to my article in the ,north ,american ,review1 and denounced me in about the same terms4 ,he is undoubtedly a man who firmly believes in the ,old ,testament1 and has no doubt concerning the ,new4 ,i understand that he puts in most of his time now reading the ,bible and rebuking people who use profane language in his presence4 ,question4 ,you most certainly do not see any foundation for the accusations of preachers like ,sunderland1 ,newman and ,power1 et al1 that the teaching of a secular liberalism has had anything to do with the shaping of ,guiteau's character or the actions of his vagabond life or the inciting to his murderous deeds8 ,answer4 ,i do not think that the sermon of ,mr4 ,power was in good taste4 ,it is utterly foolish to charge the ,stalwarts with committing or inciting the crime against the life of the ,president4 ,ministers1 though1 as a rule1 know but little of public affairs1 and they always account for the actions of people they do not like or agree with1 by attributing to them the lowest and basest motives4 ,this is the fault of the pulpit--always has been1 and probably always will be4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,newman of ,new ,york1 tells us that the crime of ,guiteau shows three things3 ,first1 that ignorant men should not be allowed to vote2 second1 that foreigners should not be allowed to vote2 and third1 that there should not be so much religious liberty4 ,it turns out1 first1 the ,guiteau is not an ignorant man2 second1 that he is not a foreigner2 and third1 that he is a ,christian4 ,now1 because an intelligent ,american ,christian tries to murder the ,president1 this person says we ought to do something with ignorant foreigners and ,infidels4 ,this is about the average pulpit logic4 ,of course1 all the ministers hate to admit the ,guiteau was a ,christian2 that he belonged to the ,young ,men's ,christian ,association1 or at least was generally found in their rooms2 that he was a follower of ,moody and ,sankey1 and probably instrumental in the salvation of a great many souls4 ,i do not blame them for wishing to get rid of this record4 ,what ,i blame them for is that they are impudent enough to charge the crime of ,guiteau upon ,infidelity4 ,infidels and ,atheists have often killed tyrants4 ,they have often committed crimes to increase the liberty of mankind2 but the history of the world will not show an instance where an ,infidel or an ,atheist has assassinated any man in the interest of human slavery4 ,of course1 ,i am exceedingly glad that ,guiteau is not an ,infidel4 ,i am glad that he believes the ,bible1 glad that he has delivered lectures against what he calls ,infidelity1 and glad that he has been working for years with the missionaries and evangelists of the ,united ,states4 ,he is a man of small brain1 badly balanced4 ,he believes the ,bible to be the word of ,god4 ,he believes in the reality of heaven and hell4 ,he believes in the miraculous4 ,he is surrounded by the supernatural1 and when a man throws away his reason1 of course no one can tell what he will do4 ,he is liable to become a devotee or an assassin1 a saint or a murderer2 he may die in a monastery or in a penitentiary4 ,question4 ,according to your view1 then1 the species of fanaticism taught in sectarian ,christianity1 by which ,guiteau was led to assert that ,garfield dead would be better off then living--being in ,paradise --is more responsible than office seeking or political factionalism for his deed8 ,answer4 ,guiteau seemed to think that the killing of the ,president would only open the gates of ,paradise to him1 and that1 after all1 under such circumstances1 murder was hardly a crime4 ,this same kind of reasoning is resorted to in the pulpit to account for death4 ,if ,guiteau had succeeded in killing the ,president1 hundreds of ministers would have said1 ,after all1 it may be that the ,president has lost nothing2 it may be that our loss is his eternal gain2 and although it seems cruel that ,providence should allow a man like him to be murdered1 still1 it may have been the very kindest thing that could have been done for him4 ,guiteau reasoned in this way1 and probably convinced himself1 judging from his own life1 that this world was1 after all1 of very little worth4 ,we are apt to measure others by ourselves4 ,of course1 ,i do not think ,christianity is responsible for this crime4 ,superstition may have been1 in part --probably was4 ,but no man believes in ,christianity because he thinks it sanctions murder4 ,at the same time1 an absolute belief in the ,bible sometimes produces the worst form of murder4 ,take that of ,mr4 ,freeman1 of ,poeasset1 who stabbed his little daughter to the heart in accordance with what he believed to be the command of ,god4 ,this poor man imitated ,abraham2 and1 for that matter1 ,jehovah himself4 ,there have been in the history of ,christianity thousands and thousands of such instances1 and there will probably be many thousands more that have been and will be produced by throwing away our own reason and taking the word of some one else --often a word that we do not understand4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion as to the effect of praying for the recovery of the ,president1 and have you any confidence that prayers are answered8 ,answer4 ,my opinion as to the value of prayer is well known4 ,i take it that every one who prays for the ,president shows at least his sympathy and good will4 ,personally1 ,i have no objection to anybody's praying4 ,those who think their prayers are answered should pray4 ,for all who honestly believe this1 and who honestly implore their ,deity to watch over1 protect1 and save the life of the ,president1 ,i have only the kindliest feelings4 ,it may be that a few will pray to be seen of men2 but ,i suppose that most people on a subject like this are honest4 ,personally1 ,i have not the slightest idea of the existence of the supernatural4 ,prayer may affect the person who prays4 ,it may put him in such a frame of mind that he can better bear disappointment than if he had not prayed2 but ,i cannot believe that there is any being who hears and answers prayer4 ,when we remember the earthquakes that have devoured1 the pestilences that have covered the earth with corpses1 and all the crimes and agonies that have been inflicted upon the good and weak by the bad and strong1 it does not seem possible that anything can be accomplished by prayer4 ,i do not wish to hurt the feelings of anyone1 but ,i imagine that ,i have a right to my own opinion4 ,if the ,president gets well it will be because the bullet did not strike an absolutely vital part2 it will be because he has been well cared for2 because he has had about him intelligent and skillful physicians1 men who understood their profession4 ,no doubt he has received great support from the universal expression of sympathy and kindness4 ,the knowledge that fifty millions of people are his friends has given him nerve and hope4 ,some of the ministers1 ,i see1 think that ,god was actually present and deflected the ball4 ,another minister tells us that the ,president would have been assassinated in a church1 but that ,god determined not to allow so frightful a crime to be committed in so sacred an edifice4 ,all this sounds to me like perfect absurdity--simple noise4 ,yet1 ,i presume that those who talk in this way are good people and believe what they say4 ,of course1 they can give no reason why ,god did not deflect the ball when ,lincoln was assassinated4 ,the truth is1 the pulpit first endeavors to find out the facts1 and then to make a theory to fit them4 ,whoever believes in a special providence must1 of necessity1 by illogical and absurd2 because it is impossible to make any theological theory that some facts will not contradict4 ,question4 ,won't you give us1 then1 ,colonel1 your analysis of this act1 and the motives leading to it8 ,answer4 ,i think ,guiteau wanted an office and was refused4 ,he became importunate4 ,he was1 substantially1 put out of the ,white ,house4 ,he became malicious4 ,he made up his mind to be revenged4 ,this1 in my judgment1 is the diagnosis of his case4 ,since he has been in jail he has never said one word about having been put out of the ,white ,house2 he is lawyer enough to know he must not furnish any ground for malice4 ,he is a miserable1 malicious and worthless wretch1 infinitely egotistical1 imagines that he did a great deal toward the election of ,garfield1 and upon being refused the house a serpent of malice coiled in his heart1 and he determined to be revenged4 ,that is all6 ,question4 ,do you1 in any way1 see any reason or foundation for the severe and bitter criticisms made against the ,stalwart leaders in connection with this crime8 ,as you are well known to be a friend of the administration1 while not unfriendly to ,mr4 ,conkling and those acting with him1 would you mind giving the public your opinion on this point8 ,answer4 ,of course1 ,i do not hold ,arthur1 ,conkling and ,platt responsible for ,guiteau's action4 ,in the first excitement a thousand unreasonable things were said2 and when passion has possession of the brain1 suspicion is a welcome visitor4 ,i do not think that any friend of the administration really believes ,conkling1 ,platt and ,arthur responsible in the slightest degree4 ,conkling wished to prevent the appointment of ,robertson4 ,the ,president stood by his friend4 ,one thing brought on another1 ,mr4 ,conkling petulantly resigned1 and made the mistake of his life4 ,there was a good deal of feeling1 but1 of course1 no one dreamed that the wretch1 ,guiteau1 was lying in wait for the ,president's life4 ,in the first place1 ,guiteau was on the ,president's side1 and was bitterly opposed to ,conkling4 ,guiteau did what he did from malice and personal spite4 ,i think the sermon preached last ,sunday in the ,campbellite ,church was unwise1 ill advised1 and calculated to make enemies instead of friends4 ,mr4 ,conkling has been beaten4 ,he has paid for the mistake he made4 ,if he can stand it1 ,i can2 and why should there be any malice on the subject8 ,exceedingly good men have made mistakes1 and afterward corrected them4 ,question4 ,is it not true1 ,colonel ,ingersoll1 that the lesson of this deed is to point the real and overwhelming need of re-knitting and harmonizing the factions8 ,answer4 ,there is hardly enough faction left for knitting4 ,the party is in harmony now4 ,all that is necessary is to stop talking4 ,the people of this country care very little as to who holds any particular office4 ,they wish to have the ,government administered in accordance with certain great principles1 and they leave the fields1 the shops1 and the stores once in four years1 for the purpose of attending to that business4 ,in the meantime1 politicians quarrel about offices4 ,the people go on4 ,they plow fields1 they build homes1 they open mines1 they enrich the world1 they cover our country with prosperity1 and enjoy the aforesaid quarrels4 ,but when the time comes1 these gentlemen are forgotten4 ,principles take the place of politicians1 and the people settle these questions for themselves4 --,sunday ,gazette1 ,washington1 ,d4 ,c41 ,july #bd1 #ahha4 ,,district ,,suffrage4 ,question4 ,you have heretofore incidentally expressed yourself on the matter of local suffrage in the ,district of ,columbia4 ,have you any objections to giving your present views of the question8 ,answer4 ,i am still in favor of suffrage in the ,district4 ,the real trouble is1 that before any substantial relief can be reached1 there must be a change in the ,constitution of the ,united ,states4 ,the mere right to elect aldermen and mayors and policemen is of no great importance4 ,it is a mistake to take all political power from the citizens of the ,district4 ,americans want to help rule the country4 ,the ,district ought to have at least one ,representative in ,congress1 and should elect one presidential elector4 ,the people here should have a voice4 ,they should feel that they are a part of this country4 ,they should have the right to sue in all ,federal courts1 precisely as though they were citizens of a ,state4 ,this city ought to have half a million of inhabitants4 ,thousands would come here every year from every part of the ,union1 were it not for the fact that they do not wish to become political nothings4 ,they think that citizenship is worth something1 and they preserve it by staying away from ,washington4 ,this city is a flag of truce where wounded and dead politicians congregate2 the ,mecca of failures1 the perdition of claimants1 the purgatory of seekers after place1 and the heaven only of those who neither want nor do anything4 ,nothing is manufactured1 no solid business is done in this city1 and there never will be until energetic1 thrifty people wish to make it their home1 and they will not wish that until the people of the ,district have something like the rights and political prospects of other citizens4 ,it is hard to see why the right to representation should be taken from citizens living in the ,capital of the ,nation4 ,the believers in free government should believe in a free capital4 ,question4 ,are there any valid reasons why the constitutional limitations to the elective franchise in the ,district of ,columbia should not be removed by an amendment to that instrument8 ,answer4 ,i cannot imagine one4 ,if our ,government is founded upon a correct principle there can be no objection urged against suffrage in the ,district that cannot1 with equal force1 be urged against every part of the country4 ,if freedom is dangerous here1 it is safe nowhere4 ,if a man cannot be trusted in the ,district1 he is dangerous in the ,state4 ,we do not trust the place where the man happens to be2 we trust the man4 ,the people of this ,district cannot remain in their present condition without becoming dishonored4 ,the idea of allowing themselves to be governed by commissioners1 in whose selection they have no part1 is monstrous4 ,the people here beg1 implore1 request1 ask1 pray1 beseech1 intercede1 crave1 urge1 entreat1 supplicate1 memorialize and most humbly petition1 but they neither vote nor demand4 ,they are not allowed to enter the ,temple of ,liberty2 they stay in the lobby or sit on the steps4 ,question4 ,they say ,paris is ,france1 because her electors or citizens control that municipality4 ,do you foresee any danger of centralization in the full enfranchisement of the citizens of ,washington8 ,answer4 ,there was a time when the intelligence of ,france was in ,paris4 ,the country was besotted1 ignorant1 ,catholic2 ,paris was alive1 educated1 ,infidel1 full of new theories1 of passion and heroism4 ,for two hundred years ,paris was an athlete chained to a corpse4 ,the corpse was the rest of ,france4 ,it is different now1 and the whole country is at last filling with light4 ,besides1 ,paris has two millions of people4 ,it is filled with factories4 ,it is not only the intellectual center1 but the center of money and business as well4 ,let the ,corps ,legislatif meet anywhere1 and ,paris will continue to be in a certain splendid sense--,france4 ,nothing like that can ever happen here unless you expect ,washington to outstrip ,new ,york1 ,philadelphia and ,chicago4 ,if allowing the people of the ,district of ,columbia to vote was the only danger to the ,republic1 ,i should be politically the happiest of men4 ,i think it somewhat dangerous to deprive even one ,american citizen of the right to govern himself4 ,question4 ,would you have ,government clerks and officials appointed to office here given the franchise in the ,district8 and should this1 if given1 include the women clerks8 ,answer4 ,citizenship should be determined here as in the ,states4 ,clerks should not be allowed to vote unless their intention is to make the ,district their home4 ,when ,i make a government ,i shall give one vote to each family4 ,the unmarried should not be represented except by parents4 ,let the family be the unit of representation4 ,give each hearthstone a vote4 ,question4 ,how do you regard the opposition of the local clergy and of the ,bourbon ,democracy to enfranchising the citizens of the ,district8 ,answer4 ,i did not know that the clergy did oppose it4 ,if1 as you say1 they do oppose it because they fear it will extend the liquor traffic1 ,i think their reason exceedingly stupid4 ,you cannot make men temperate by shutting up a few of the saloons and leaving others wide open4 ,intemperance must be met with other weapons4 ,the church ought not to appeal to force4 ,what would the clergy of ,washington think should the miracle of ,cana be repeated in their day8 ,had they been in that country1 with their present ideas1 what would they have said8 ,after all there is a great deal of philosophy in the following3 ,better have the whole world voluntarily drunk then sober on compulsion4 ,of course the ,bourbons object4 ,objecting is the business of a ,bourbon4 ,he always objects4 ,if he does not understand the question he objects because he does not1 and if he does understand he objects because he does4 ,with him the reason for objecting is the fact that he does4 ,question4 ,what effect1 if any1 would the complete franchise to our citizens have upon real estate and business in ,washington8 ,answer4 ,if the people here had representation according to numbers--if the avenues to political preferment were open--if men here could take part in the real government of the country1 if they could bring with them all their rights1 this would be a great and splendid ,capital4 ,we ought to have here a ,university1 the best in the world1 a library second to none1 and here should be gathered the treasures of ,american art4 ,the ,federal ,government has been infinitely economical in the direction of information4 ,i hope the time will come when our ,government will give as much to educate two men as to kill one4 --,the ,capital1 ,washington1 ,d4 ,c41 ,december #ah1 #ahha4 ,,funeral ,,of ,,john ,g4 ,,mills ,,and ,,immortality499 99 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll rarely takes the trouble to answer critics4 ,his recent address over the dead body of his friend ,john ,g4 ,mills has called forth a storm of denunciation from nearly every pulpit in the country4 ,the writer called at the ,colonel's office in ,new ,york ,avenue yesterday and asked him to reply to some of the points made against him4 ,reluctantly he assented4 ,question4 ,have you seen the recent clerical strictures upon your doctrines8 ,answer4 ,there are always people kind enough to send me anything they have the slightest reason to think ,i do not care to read4 ,they seem to be animated by a missionary spirit1 and apparently want to be in a position when they see me in hell to exclaim3 ,you can't blame me4 ,i sent you all the impudent articles ,i saw1 and if you died unconverted it was no fault of mine4 ,question4 ,did you notice that a ,washington clergyman said that the very fact that you were allowed to speak at the funeral was in itself a sacrilege1 and that you ought to have been stopped8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i saw some such story4 ,of course1 the clergy regard marriages and funerals as the perquisites of the pulpit1 and they resent any interference on the part of the pews4 ,they look at these matters from a business point of view4 ,they made the same cry against civil marriages4 ,they denied that marriage was a contract1 and insisted that it was a sacrament1 and that it was hardly binding unless a priest had blessed it4 ,they used to bury in consecrated ground1 and had marks upon the graves1 so that ,gabriel might know the ones to waken4 ,the clergy wish to make themselves essential4 ,they must christen the babe--this gives them possession of the cradle4 ,they must perform the ceremony of marriage --this gives them possession of the family4 ,they must pronounce the funeral discourse--this gives them possession of the dead4 ,formerly they denied baptism to the children of the unbeliever1 marriage to him who denied the dogmas of the church1 and burial to honest men4 ,the church wishes to control the world1 and wishes to sacrifice this world for the next4 ,of course ,i am in favor of the utmost liberty upon all these questions4 ,when a ,presbyterian dies1 let a follower of ,john ,calvin console the living by setting forth the ,five ,points4 ,when a ,catholic becomes clay1 let a priest perform such ceremonies as his creed demands1 and let him picture the delights of purgatory for the gratification of the living4 ,and when one dies who does not believe in any religion1 having expressed a wish that somebody say a few words above his remains1 ,i see no reason why such a proceeding should be stopped1 and1 for my part1 ,i see no sacrilege in it4 ,why should the reputations of the dead1 and the feelings of those who live1 be placed at the mercy of the ministers8 ,a man dies not having been a ,christian1 and who1 according to the ,christian doctrine1 is doomed to eternal fire4 ,how would an honest ,christian minister console the widow and the fatherless children8 ,how would he dare to tell what he claims to be truth in the presence of the living8 ,the truth is1 the ,christian minister in the presence of death abandons his ,christianity4 ,he dare not say above the coffin1 the soul that once inhabited this body is now in hell4 ,he would be denounced as a brutal savage4 ,now and then a minister at a funeral has been brave enough and unmannerly enough to express his doctrine in all its hideousness of hate4 ,i was told that in ,chicago1 many years ago1 a young man1 member of a volunteer fire company1 was killed by the falling of a wall1 and at the very moment the wall struck him he was uttering a curse4 ,he was a brave and splendid man4 ,an orthodox minister said above his coffin1 in the presence of his mother and mourning friends1 that he saw no hope for the soul of that young man4 ,the mother1 who was also orthodox1 refused to have her boy buried with such a sermon--stopped the funeral1 took the corpse home1 engaged a ,universalist preacher1 and1 on the next day having heard this man say that there was no place in the wide universe of ,god without hope1 and that her son would finally stand among the redeemed1 this mother laid her son away1 put flowers upon his grave1 and was satisfied4 ,question4 ,what have you to say to the charge that you are preaching the doctrine of despair and hopelessness1 when they have the comforting assurances of the ,christian religion to offer8 ,answer4 ,all ,i have to say is this3 ,if the ,christian religion is true1 as commonly preached--and when ,i speak of ,christianity1 ,i speak of the orthodox ,christianity of the day--if that be true1 those whom ,i have loved the best are now in torment4 ,those to whom ,i am most deeply indebted are now suffering the vengeance of ,god4 ,if this religion be true1 the future is of no value to me4 ,i care nothing about heaven1 unless the ones ,i love and have loved are there4 ,i know nothing about the angels4 ,i might not like them1 and they might not like me4 ,i would rather meet there the ones who have loved me here--the ones who would have died for me1 and for whom ,i would have died2 and if we are to be eternally divided --not because we differed in our views of justice1 not because we differed about friendship or love or candor1 or the nobility of human action1 but because we differed in belief about the atonement or baptism or the inspiration of the ,scriptures--and if some of us are to be in heaven1 and some in hell1 then1 for my part1 ,i prefer eternal sleep4 ,to me the doctrine of annihilation is infinitely more consoling1 than the probable separation preached by the orthodox clergy of our time4 ,of course1 even if there be a ,god1 ,i like persons that ,i know1 better than ,i can like him--we have more in common--,i know more about them2 and how is it possible for me to love the infinite and unknown better than the ones ,i know8 ,why not have the courage to say that if there be a ,god1 all ,i know about him ,i know by knowing myself and my friends--by knowing others8 ,and1 after all1 is not a noble man1 is not a pure woman1 the finest revelation we have of ,god--if there be one8 ,of what use is it to be false to ourselves8 ,what moral quality is there in theological pretence8 ,why should a man say that he loves ,god better than he does his wife or his children or his brother or his sister or his warm1 true friend8 ,several ministers have objected to what ,i said about my friend ,mr4 ,mills1 on the ground that it was not calculated to console the living4 ,mr4 ,mills was not a ,christian4 ,he denied the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,he believed that restitution was the best repentance1 and that1 after all1 sin is a mistake4 ,he was not a believer in total depravity1 or in the atonement4 ,he denied these things4 ,he was an unbeliever4 ,now1 let me ask1 what consolation could a ,christian minister have given to his family8 ,he could have said to the widow and the orphans1 to the brother and sister3 ,your husband1 your father1 your brother1 is now in hell2 dry your tears2 weep not for him1 but try and save yourselves4 ,he has been damned as a warning to you1 care no more for him1 why should you weep over the grave of a man whom ,god thinks fit only to be eternally tormented8 ,why should you love the memory of one whom ,god hates8 ,the minister could have said3 ,he had an opportunity--he did not take it4 ,the life-boat was lowered--he would not get in--he has been drowned1 and the waves of ,god's wrath will sweep over him forever4 ,this is the consolation of ,christianity and the only honest consolation that ,christianity can have for the widow and orphans of an unbeliever4 ,suppose1 however1 that the ,christian minister has too tender a heart to tell what he believes to be the truth--then he can say to the sorrowing friends3 ,perhaps the man repented before he died2 perhaps he is not in hell1 perhaps you may meet him in heaven2 and this perhaps is a consolation not growing out of ,christianity1 but out of the politeness of the preacher--out of paganism4 ,question4 ,do you not think that the ,bible has consolation for those who have lost their friends8 ,answer4 ,there is about the ,old ,testament this strange fact--,i find in it no burial service4 ,there is in it1 ,i believe1 from the first mistake in ,genesis to the last curse in ,malachi1 not one word said over the dead as to their place and state4 ,when ,abraham died1 nobody said3 ,he is still alive--he is in another world4 ,when the prophets passed away1 not one word was said as to the heaven to which they had gone4 ,in the ,old ,testament1 ,saul inquired of the witch1 and ,samuel rose4 ,samuel did not pretend that he had been living1 or that he was alive1 but asked3 ,why hast thou disquieted me8 ,he did not pretend to have come from another world4 ,and when ,david speaks of his son1 saying that he could not come back to him1 but that he1 ,david1 could go to his son1 that is but saying that he1 too1 must die4 ,there is not in the ,old ,testament one hope of immortality4 ,it is expressly asserted that there is no difference between the man and beast--that as the one dieth so dieth the other4 ,there is one little passage in ,job which commentators have endeavored to twist into a hope of immortality4 ,here is a book of hundreds and hundreds of pages1 and hundreds and hundreds of chapters--a revelation from ,god--and in it one little passage1 which1 by a mistranslation1 is tortured into saying something about another life4 ,and this is the ,old ,testament4 ,i have sometimes thought that the ,jews1 when slaves in ,egypt1 were mostly occupied in building tombs for mummies1 and that they became so utterly disgusted with that kind of work1 that the moment they founded a nation for themselves they went out of the tomb business4 ,the ,egyptians were believers in immortality1 and spent almost their entire substance upon the dead4 ,the living were impoverished to enrich the dead4 ,the grave absorbed the wealth of ,egypt4 ,the industry of a nation was buried4 ,certainly the ,old ,testament has nothing clearly in favor of immortality4 ,in the ,new ,testament we are told about the kingdom of heaven1--that it is at hand--and about who shall be worthy1 but it is hard to tell what is meant by the kingdom of heaven4 ,the kingdom of heaven was apparently to be in this world1 and it was about to commence4 ,the ,devil was to be chained for a thousand years1 the wicked were to be burned up1 and ,christ and his followers were to enjoy the earth4 ,this certainly was the doctrine of ,paul when he says3 ,behold1 ,i show you a mystery2 ,we shall not all sleep1 but we shall all be changed4 ,in a moment1 in the twinkling of an eye1 at the last trump2 for the trumpet shall sound1 and the dead shall be raised incorruptible1 and we shall be changed4 ,for this corruptible must put on incorruption1 and this mortal must put on immortality4 ,according to this doctrine1 those who were alive were to be changed1 and those who had died were to be raised from the dead4 ,paul certainly did not refer to any other world beyond this4 ,all these things were to happen here4 ,the ,new ,testament is made up of the fragments of many religions4 ,it is utterly inconsistent with itself2 and there is not a particle of evidence of the resurrection and ascension of ,christ--neither in the nature of things could there be4 ,it is a thousand times more probable that people were mistaken than that such things occurred4 ,if ,christ really rose from the dead1 he should have shown himself1 not simply to his disciples1 but to the very men who crucified him--to ,herod1 to the high priest1 to ,pilate4 ,he should have made a triumphal entry into ,jerusalem after his resurrection1 instead of before4 ,he should have shown himself to the ,sadducees1--to those who denied the existence of spirit4 ,take from the ,new ,testament its doctrine of eternal pain--the idea that we can please ,god by acts of self-denial that can do no good to others--take away all its miracles1 and ,i have no objection to all the good things in it--no objection to the hope of a future life1 if such a hope is expressed--not the slightest4 ,and ,i would not for the world say anything to take from any mind a hope in which dwells the least comfort1 but a doctrine that dooms a large majority of mankind to eternal flames ought not to be called a consolation4 ,what ,i say is1 that the writers of the ,new ,testament knew no more about the future state than ,i do1 and no less4 ,the horizon of life has never been pierced4 ,the veil between time and what is called eternity1 has never been raised1 so far as ,i know2 and ,i say of the dead what all others must say if they say only what they know4 ,there is no particular consolation in a guess4 ,not knowing what the future has in store for the human race1 it is far better to prophesy good than evil4 ,it is better to hope that the night has a dawn1 that the sky has a star1 than to build a heaven for the few1 and a hell for the many4 ,it is better to leave your dead in doubt than in fire--better that they should sleep in shadow than in the lurid flames of perdition4 ,and so ,i say1 and always have said1 let us hope for the best4 ,the minister asks3 ,what right have you to hope8 ,it is sacrilegious in you6 ,but1 whether the clergy like it or not1 ,i shall always express my real opinion1 and shall always be glad to say to those who mourn3 ,there is in death1 as ,i believe1 nothing worse than sleep4 ,hope for as much better as you can4 ,under the seven-hued arch let the dead rest4 ,throw away the ,bible1 and you throw away the fear of hell1 but the hope of another life remains1 because the hope does not depend upon a book--it depends upon the heart--upon human affection4 ,the fear1 so far as this generation is concerned1 is born of the book1 and that part of the book was born of savagery4 ,whatever of hope is in the book is born1 as ,i said before1 of human affection1 and the higher our civilization the greater the affection4 ,i had rather rest my hope of something beyond the grave upon the human heart1 than upon what they call the ,scriptures1 because there ,i find mingled with the hope of something good the threat of infinite evil4 ,among the thistles1 thorns and briers of the ,bible is one pale and sickly flower of hope4 ,among all its wild beasts and fowls1 only one bird flies heavenward4 ,i prefer the hope without the thorns1 without the briers1 thistles1 hyenas1 and serpents4 ,question4 ,do you not know that it is claimed that immortality was brought to light in the ,new ,testament1 that that1 in fact1 was the principal mission of ,christ8 ,answer4 ,i know that ,christians claim that the doctrine of immortality was first taught in the ,new ,testament4 ,they also claim that the highest morality was found there4 ,both these claims are utterly without foundation4 ,thousands of years before ,christ was born--thousands of years before ,moses saw the light--the doctrine of immortality was preached by the priests of ,osiris and ,isis4 ,funeral discourses were pronounced over the dead1 ages before ,abraham existed4 ,when a man died in ,egypt1 before he was taken across the sacred lake1 he had a trial4 ,witnesses appeared1 and if he had done anything wrong1 for which he had not done restitution1 he was not taken across the lake4 ,the living friends1 in disgrace1 carried the body back1 and it was buried outside of what might be called consecrated ground1 while the ghost was supposed to wander for a hundred years4 ,often the children of the dead would endeavor to redeem the poor ghost by acts of love and kindness4 ,when he came to the spirit world there was the god ,anubis1 who weighed his heart in the scales of eternal justice1 and if the good deed preponderated he entered the gates of ,paradise2 if the evil1 he had to go back to the world1 and be born in the bodies of animals for the purpose of final purification4 ,at last1 the good deeds would outweigh the evil1 and1 according to the religion of ,egypt1 the latch-string of heaven would never be drawn in until the last wanderer got home4 ,immortality was also taught in ,india1 and1 in fact1 in all the countries of antiquity4 ,wherever men have loved1 wherever they have dreamed1 wherever hope has spread its wings1 the idea of immortality has existed4 ,but nothing could be worse than the immortality promised in the ,new ,testament--admitting that it is so promised--eternal joy side by side with eternal pain4 ,think of living forever1 knowing that countless millions are suffering eternal pain6 ,how much better it would be for ,god to commit suicide and let all life and motion cease6 ,christianity has no consolation except for the ,christian1 and if a ,christian minister endeavors to console the widow of an unbeliever he must resort1 not to his religion1 but to his sympathy--to the natural promptings of the heart4 ,he is compelled to say3 ,after all1 may be ,god is not so bad as we think1 or1 ,may be your husband was better than he appeared2 perhaps somehow1 in some way1 the dear man has squeezed in2 he was a good husband1 he was a kind father1 and even if he is in hell1 may be he is in the temperate zone1 where they have occasional showers1 and where1 if the days are hot1 the nights are reasonably cool4 ,all ,i ask of ,christian ministers is to tell what they believe to be the truth--not to borrow ideas from the pagans--not to preach the mercy born of unregenerate sympathy4 ,let them tell their real doctrines4 ,if they will do that1 they will not have much influence4 ,if orthodox ,christianity is true1 a large majority of the man who have made this world fit to live in are now in perdition4 ,a majority of the ,revolutionary soldiers have been damned4 ,a majority of the man who fought for the integrity of this ,union--a majority who were starved at ,libby and ,andersonville are now in hell4 ,question4 ,do you deny the immortality of the soul8 ,answer4 ,i have never denied the immortality of the soul4 ,i have simply been honest4 ,i have said3 ,i do not know4 ,long ago1 in my lecture on ,the ,ghosts1 ,i used the following language3 ,the idea of immortality1 that like a sea has ebbed and flowed in the human heart1 with its countless waves of hope and fear beating against the shores and rocks of time and fate1 was not born of any book1 nor of any creed1 nor of any religion4 ,it was born of human affection1 and it will continue to ebb and flow beneath the mists and clouds of doubt and darkness as long as love kisses the lips of death4 ,it is the rainbow ,hope1 shining upon the tears of grief4 --,the ,post1 ,washington1 ,d4 ,c41 ,april #cj1 #ahhc4 ,,star ,,route ,,and ,,politics499 99 ,col4 ,ingersoll entertains very pronounced ideas concerning ,president ,arthur1 ,attorney-,general ,brewster and divers other people1 which will be found presented herewith in characteristically piquant style4 ,with his family1 the eloquent advocate has a cottage here1 and finds brain and body rest and refreshment in the tumbling waves4 ,this noon1 in the height of a tremendous thunder storm1 ,i bumped against his burly figure in the roaring crest1 and1 after the first shock had passed1 determined to utilize the providential coincidence4 ,the water was warm1 our clothes were in the bathing houses1 and comfort was more certain where we were than anywhere else4 ,the ,colonel is an expert swimmer and as a floater he cannot be beaten4 ,he was floating when we bumped4 ,spouting a pint of salt water from his mouth1 he nearly choked with laughter as in answer to my question he said3 ,no1 ,i do not believe there will be any more ,star ,route trials4 ,there is so much talk about the last one1 there will not be time for another4 ,question4 ,did you anticipate a verdict8 ,answer4 ,i did anticipate a verdict1 and one of acquittal4 ,i knew that the defendants were entitled to such a verdict4 ,i knew that the ,government had signally failed to prove a case4 ,there was nothing but suspicion1 from which malice was inferred4 ,the direct proof was utterly unworthy of belief4 ,the direct witness was caught with letters he had forged4 ,this one fact was enough to cover the prosecution with confusion4 ,the fact that ,rerdell sat with the other defendants and reported to the ,government from day to day satisfied the jury as to the value of his testimony1 and the animus of the ,department of ,justice4 ,besides1 ,rerdell had offered to challenge such jurors as the ,government might select4 ,he handed counsel for defendants a list of four names that he wanted challenged4 ,at that time it was supposed that each defendant would be allowed to challenge four jurors4 ,afterward the ,court decided that all the defendants must be considered as one party and had the right to challenge four and no more4 ,of the four names on ,rerdell's list the ,government challenged three and ,rerdell tried to challenge the other4 ,this was what is called a coincidence4 ,another thing had great influence with the jury--the evidence of the defendants was upon all material points so candid and so natural1 so devoid of all coloring1 that the jury could not help believing4 ,if the people knew the evidence they would agree with the jury4 ,when we remember that there were over ten thousand star routes1 it is not to be wondered at that some mistakes were made--that in some instances too much was paid and in others too little4 ,question4 ,what has been the attitude of ,president ,arthur8 ,answer4 ,we asked nothing from the ,president4 ,we wanted no help from him4 ,we expected that he would take no part--that he would simply allow the matter to be settled by the court in the usual way4 ,i think that he made one very serious mistake4 ,he removed officers on false charges without giving them a hearing4 ,he deposed ,marshal ,henry because somebody said that he was the friend of the defendants4 ,henry was a good officer and an honest man4 ,the ,president removed ,ainger for the same reason4 ,this was a mistake4 ,ainger should have been heard4 ,there is always time to do justice4 ,no day is too short for justice1 and eternity is not long enough to commit a wrong4 ,it was thought that the community could be terrorized3-- ,first4 ,the ,president dismissed ,henry and ,ainger4 ,second4 ,the ,attorney-,general wrote a letter denouncing the defendants as thieves and robbers4 ,third4 ,other letters from ,bliss and ,mac,veagh were published4 ,fourth4 ,dixon1 the foreman of the first jury1 was indicted4 ,fifth4 ,members of the first jury voting guilty were in various ways rewarded4 ,sixth4 ,bargains were made with ,boone and ,rerdell4 ,the cases against ,boone were to be dismissed and ,rerdell was promised immunity4 ,under these circumstances the second trial commenced4 ,but of all the people in this country the citizens of ,washington care least for ,presidents and members of the ,cabinets4 ,they know what these officers are made of4 ,they know that they are simply folks--that they do not hold office forever--that the ,jupiters of to-day are often the pygmies of to-morrow4 ,they have seen too many people come in with trumpets and flags and go out with hisses and rags to be overawed by the deities of a day4 ,they have seen ,lincoln and they are not to be frightened by his successors4 ,arthur took part to the extent of turning out men suspected of being friendly to the defence4 ,arthur was in a difficult place4 ,he was understood to be the friend of ,dorsey and1 of course1 had to do something4 ,nothing is more dangerous than a friend in power4 ,he is obliged to show that he is impartial1 and it always takes a good deal of injustice to establish a reputation for fairness4 ,question4 ,was there any ground to expect aid or any different action on ,arthur's part8 ,answer4 ,all we expected was that ,arthur would do as the soldier wanted the ,lord to do at ,new ,orleans--,just take neither side4 ,question4 ,why did not ,brewster speak8 ,answer4 ,the ,court would not allow two closings4 ,the ,attorney- ,general did not care to speak in the middle4 ,he wished to close1 and as he could not do that without putting ,mr4 ,merrick out1 he concluded to remain silent4 ,the defendants had no objection to his speaking1 but they objected to two closing arguments for the ,government1 and the ,court decided they were right4 ,of course1 ,i understand nothing about the way in which the attorneys for the prosecution arranged their difficulties4 ,that was nothing to me2 neither do ,i care what money they received--all that is for the next ,congress4 ,it is not for me to speak of those questions4 ,question4 ,will there be other trials8 ,answer4 ,i think not4 ,it does not seem likely that other attorneys will want to try1 and the old ones have4 ,my opinion is that we have had the last of the ,star ,route trials4 ,it was claimed that the one tried was the strongest4 ,if this is so the rest had better be dismissed4 ,i think the people are tired of the whole business4 ,it now seems probable that all the time for the next few years will be taken up in telling about the case that was tried4 ,i see that ,cook is telling about ,mac,veagh and ,james and ,brewster and ,bliss2 ,walsh is giving his opinion of ,kellogg and ,foster2 ,bliss is saying a few words about ,cook and ,gibson2 ,brewster is telling what ,bliss told him2 ,gibson will have his say about ,garfield and ,mac,veagh1 and it now seems probable that we shall get the bottom facts about the other jury--the actions of ,messrs4 ,hoover1 ,bowen1 ,brewster ,cameron and others4 ,personally ,i have no interest in the business4 ,question4 ,how does the next campaign look8 ,answer4 ,the ,republicans are making all the mistakes they can1 and the only question now is1 ,can the ,democrats make more8 ,the tariff will be one of the great questions1 and may be the only one except success4 ,the ,democrats are on both sides of the question4 ,they hate to give up the word only4 ,only for that word they might have succeeded in #ahhj4 ,if they can let only alone1 and say they want a tariff for revenue they will do better4 ,the fact is the people are not in favor of free trade1 neither do they want a tariff high enough to crush a class1 but they do want a tariff to raise a revenue and to protect our industries4 ,i am for protection because it diversifies industries and develops brain--allows us to utilize all the muscle and brain we have4 ,a party attacking the manufacturing interests of this country will fail4 ,there are too many millions of dollars invested and too many millions of people interested4 ,the country is becoming alike interested in this question4 ,we are no longer divided1 as in slavery times1 into manufacturing and agricultural districts or sections4 ,georgia1 ,alabama1 ,tennessee1 ,louisiana and ,texas have manufacturing interests4 ,and the ,western ,states believe in the protection of their industries4 ,the ,american people have a genius for manufacturing1 a genius for invention4 ,we are not the greatest painters or sculptors or scientists1 but we are without doubt the greatest inventors4 ,if we were all engaged in one business we would become stupid4 ,agricultural countries produce great wealth1 but are never rich4 ,to get rich it is necessary to mix thought with labor4 ,to raise the raw material is a question of strength2 to manufacture1 to put it in useful and beautiful forms1 is a question of mind4 ,there is a vast difference between the value of1 say1 a milestone and a statue1 and yet the labor expended in getting the raw material is about the same4 ,the point1 after all1 is this3 ,first1 we must have revenue2 second1 shall we get this by direct taxation or shall we tax imports and at the same time protect ,american labor8 ,the party that advocates reasonable protection will succeed499 99 ,at this point1 with far away peals of thunder1 the storm ceased1 the sun reappeared and a vault of heavenly blue swung overhead4 ,let us get out1 said ,colonel ,ingersoll4 ,suiting the action to the word1 the ,colonel struck out lustily for the beach1 on which1 hard as a rock and firm as flint1 he soon planted his sturdy form4 ,and as he lumbered across the sand to the side door of his comfortable cottage1 some three hundred feet from the surf1 the necessarily suggested contrast between ,ingersoll in court and ,ingersoll in soaked flannels was illustrated with forcible comicality4 ,half an hour later he was found in the cozy library puffing a high flavored ,havana1 and listening to home-made music of delicious quality4 ,ingersoll at home is pleasant to contemplate4 ,his sense of personal freedom is there aptly pictured4 ,loving wife and affectionate daughters form1 with happy-faced and genial-hearted father1 a model circle into which friends deem it a privilege to enter and a pleasure to remain4 ,continuing the conversation1 ,question4 ,in view of all this1 where do you think the presidential candidate will come from8 ,answer4 ,from the ,west4 ,question4 ,why so8 ,answer4 ,the ,south and ,east must compromise4 ,both can trust the ,west4 ,the ,west represents the whole country4 ,there is no provincialism in the ,west4 ,the ,west is not old enough to have the prejudice of section2 it is too prosperous to have hatred1 too great to feel envy4 ,question4 ,you do not seem to think that ,arthur has a chance8 ,answer4 ,no ,vice-,president was ever made ,president by the people4 ,it is natural to resent the accident that gave the ,vice-,president the place4 ,they regard the ,vice-,president as children do a stepmother4 ,he is looked upon as temporary--a device to save the election--a something to stop a gap--a lighter--a political raft4 ,he holds the horse until another rider is found4 ,people do not wish death to suggest nominees for the presidency4 ,i do not believe it will be possible for ,mr4 ,arthur1 no matter how well he acts1 to overcome this feeling4 ,the people like a new man4 ,there is some excitement in the campaign1 and besides they can have the luxury of believing that the new man is a great man4 ,question4 ,do you not think ,arthur has grown and is a greater man than when he was elected8 ,answer4 ,arthur was placed in very trying circumstances1 and1 ,i think1 behaved with great discretion4 ,but he was ,vice-,president1 and that is a vice that people will not pardon4 ,question4 ,how do you regard the situation in ,ohio8 ,answer4 ,i hear that the ,republicans are attacking ,hoadly1 saying that he is an ,infidel4 ,i know nothing about ,mr4 ,hoadly's theological sentiments1 but he certainly has the right to have and express his own views4 ,if the ,republicans of ,ohio have made up their minds to disfranchise the ,liberals1 the sooner they are beaten the better4 ,why should the ,republican party be so particular about religious belief8 ,was ,lincoln an orthodox ,christian8 ,were the founders of the party--the men who gave it heart and brain--conspicuous for piety8 ,were the abolitionists all believers in the inspiration of the ,bible8 ,is ,judge ,hoadly to be attacked because he exercises the liberty that he gives to others8 ,has not the ,republican party trouble enough with the spirituous to let the spiritual alone8 ,if the religious issue is made1 ,i hope that the party making it will be defeated4 ,i know nothing about the effect of the recent decision of the ,supreme ,court of ,ohio4 ,it is a very curious decision and seems to avoid the ,constitution with neatness and despatch4 ,the decision seems to rest on the difference between the words tax and license--,i4 e41 between allowing a man to sell whiskey for a tax of one hundred dollars or giving him a license to sell whiskey and charging him one hundred dollars4 ,in this1 the difference is in the law instead of the money4 ,so far all the prohibitory legislation on the liquor question has been a failure4 ,beer is victorious1 and ,gambrinus now has ,olympus all to himself4 ,on his side is the bail-- ,question4 ,but who will win8 ,answer4 ,the present indications are favorable to ,judge ,hoadly4 ,it is an off year4 ,the ,ohio leaders on one side are not in perfect harmony4 ,the ,germans are afraid1 and they generally vote the ,democratic ticket when in doubt4 ,the effort to enforce the ,sunday law1 to close the gardens1 to make one day in the week desolate and doleful1 will give the ,republicans a great deal of hard work4 ,question4 ,how about ,illinois8 ,answer4 ,republican always4 ,the ,supreme ,court of ,illinois has just made a good decision4 ,that ,court decided that a contract made on ,sunday can be enforced4 ,in other words1 that ,sunday is not holy enough to sanctify fraud4 ,you can rely on a ,state with a ,court like that4 ,there is very little rivalry in ,illinois4 ,i think that ,general ,oglesby will be the next ,governor4 ,he is one of the best men in that ,state or any other4 ,question4 ,what about ,indiana8 ,answer4 ,in that ,state ,i think ,general ,gresham is the coming man4 ,he was a brave soldier1 an able1 honest judge1 and he will fill with honor any position he may be placed in4 ,he is an excellent lawyer1 and has as much will as was ever put in one man4 ,mc,donald is the most available man for the ,democrats4 ,he is safe and in every respect reliable4 ,he is without doubt the most popular man in his party4 ,question4 ,well1 ,colonel1 what are you up to8 ,answer4 ,nothing4 ,i am surrounded by sand1 sea and sky4 ,i listen to music1 bathe in the surf and enjoy myself4 ,i am wondering why people take interest in politics2 why anybody cares about anything2 why everybody is not contented2 why people want to climb the greased pole of office and then dodge the brickbats of enemies and rivals2 why any man wishes to be ,president1 or a member of ,congress1 or in the ,cabinet1 or do anything except to live with the ones he loves1 and enjoy twenty-four hours every day4 ,i wonder why all ,new ,york does not come to ,long ,beach and hear ,schreiner's ,band play the music of ,wagner1 the greatest of all composers4 ,finally1 in the language of ,walt ,whitman1 ,i loaf and invite my soul4 --,the ,herald1 ,new ,york1 ,july #a1 #ahhc4 ,,the ,,interviewer4 ,question4 ,what do you think of newspaper interviewing8 ,answer4 ,i believe that ,james ,redpath claims to have invented the interview4 ,this system opens all doors1 does away with political pretence1 batters down the fortifications of dignity and official importance1 pulls masks from solemn faces1 compels everybody to show his hand4 ,the interviewer seems to be omnipresent4 ,he is the next man after the accident4 ,if a man should be blown up he would likely fall on an interviewer4 ,he is the universal interrogation point4 ,he asks questions for a living4 ,if the interviewer is fair and honest he is useful1 if the other way1 he is still interesting4 ,on the whole1 ,i regard the interviewer as an exceedingly important person4 ,but whether he is good or bad1 he has come to stay4 ,he will interview us until we die1 and then ask the friends a few questions just to round the subject off4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the tendency of newspapers is at present8 ,answer4 ,the papers of the future1 ,i think1 will be news papers4 ,the editorial is getting shorter and shorter4 ,the paragraphist is taking the place of the heavy man4 ,people rather form their own opinions from the facts4 ,of course good articles will always find readers1 but the dreary1 doleful1 philosophical dissertation has had its day4 ,the magazines will fall heir to such articles2 then religious weeklies will take them up1 and then they will cease altogether4 ,question4 ,do you think the people lead the newspapers1 or do the newspapers lead them8 ,answer4 ,the papers lead and are led4 ,most papers have for sale what people want to buy4 ,as a rule the people who buy determine the character of the thing sold4 ,the reading public grow more discriminating every year1 and1 as a result1 are less and less led4 ,violent papers--those that most freely attack private character--are becoming less hurtful1 because they are losing their own reputations4 ,evil tends to correct itself4 ,people do not believe all they read1 and there is a growing tendency to wait and hear from the other side4 ,question4 ,do newspapers to-day exercise as much influence as they did twenty-five years ago8 ,answer4 ,more1 by the facts published1 and less1 by editorials4 ,as we become more civilized we are governed less by persons and more by principles--less by faith and more by fact4 ,the best of all leaders is the man who teaches people to lead themselves4 ,question4 ,what would you define public opinion to be8 ,answer4 ,first1 in the widest sense1 the opinion of the majority1 including all kinds of people4 ,second1 in a narrower sense1 the opinion of the majority of the intellectual4 ,third1 in actual practice1 the opinion of those who make the most noise4 ,fourth1 public opinion is generally a mistake1 which history records and posterity repeats4 ,question4 ,what do you regard as the result of your lectures8 ,answer4 ,in the last fifteen years ,i have delivered several hundred lectures4 ,the world is growing more and more liberal every day4 ,the man who is now considered orthodox1 a few years ago would have been denounced as an ,infidel4 ,people are thinking more and believing less4 ,the pulpit is losing influence4 ,in the light of modern discovery the creeds are growing laughable4 ,a theologian is an intellectual mummy1 and excites attention only as a curiosity4 ,supernatural religion has outlived its usefulness4 ,the miracles and wonders of the ancients will soon occupy the same tent4 ,jonah and ,jack the ,giant ,killer1 ,joshua and ,red ,riding ,hood1 ,noah and ,neptune1 will all go into the collection of the famous ,mother ,hubbard4 --,the ,morning ,journal1 ,new ,york1 ,july #c1 #ahhc4 ,,politics ,,and ,,prohibition4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the result in ,ohio8 ,answer4 ,in ,ohio prohibition did more harm to the ,republican chances than anything else4 ,the ,germans hold the ,republicans responsible4 ,the ,german people believe in personal liberty4 ,they came to ,america to get it1 and they regard any interference in the manner or quantity of their food and drink as an invasion of personal rights4 ,they claim they are not questions to be regulated by law1 and ,i agree with them4 ,i believe that people will finally learn to use spirits temperately and without abuse1 but teetotalism is intemperance in itself1 which breeds resistance1 and without destroying the rivulet of the appetite only dams it and makes it liable to break out at any moment4 ,you can prevent a man from stealing by tying his hands behind him1 but you cannot make him honest4 ,prohibition breeds too many spies and informers1 and makes neighbors afraid of each other4 ,it kills hospitality4 ,again1 the ,republican party in ,ohio is endeavoring to have ,sunday sanctified by the ,legislature4 ,the working people want freedom on ,sunday4 ,they wish to enjoy themselves1 and all laws now making to prevent innocent amusement1 beget a spirit of resentment among the common people4 ,i feel like resenting all such laws1 and unless the ,republican party reforms in that particular1 it ought to be defeated4 ,i regard those two things as the principal causes of the ,republican party's defeat in ,ohio4 ,question4 ,do you believe that the ,democratic success was due to the possession of reverse principles8 ,answer4 ,i do not think that the ,democratic party is in favor of liberty of thought and action in these two regards1 from principle1 but rather from policy4 ,finding the course pursued by the ,republicans unpopular1 they adopted the opposite mode1 and their success is a proof of the truth of what ,i contend4 ,one great trouble in the ,republican party is bigotry4 ,the pulpit is always trying to take charge4 ,the same thing exists in the ,democratic party to a less degree4 ,the great trouble here is that its worst element--,catholicism --is endeavoring to get control4 ,question4 ,what causes operated for the ,republican success in ,iowa8 ,answer4 ,iowa is a prohibition ,state and almost any law on earth as against anything to drink1 can be carried there4 ,there are no large cities in the ,state and it is much easier to govern1 but even there the prohibition law is bound to be a failure4 ,it will breed deceit and hypocrisy1 and in the long run the influence will be bad4 ,question4 ,will these two considerations cut any figure in the presidential campaign of #ahhd8 ,answer4 ,the party1 as a party1 will have nothing to do with these questions4 ,these matters are local4 ,whether the ,republicans are successful will depend more upon the country's prosperity4 ,if things should be generally in pretty good shape in #ahhd1 the people will allow the party to remain in power4 ,changes of administration depend a great deal on the feeling of the country4 ,if crops are bad and money is tight1 the people blame the administration1 whether it is responsible or not4 ,if a ship going down the river strikes a snag1 or encounters a storm1 a cry goes up against the captain4 ,it may not have been his fault1 but he is blamed1 all the same1 and the passengers at once clamor for another captain4 ,so it is in politics4 ,if nothing interferes between this and #ahhd1 the ,republican party will continue4 ,otherwise it will be otherwise4 ,but the principle of prosperity as applied to administrative change is strong4 ,if the panic of #ahgc had occurred in #ahgf there would have been no occasion for a commission to sit on ,tilden4 ,if it had struck us in #ahhj1 ,hancock would have been elected4 ,neither result would have its occasion in the superiority of the ,democratic party1 but in the belief that the ,republican party was in some vague way blamable for the condition of things1 and there should be a change4 ,the ,republican party is not as strong as it used to be4 ,the old leaders have dropped out and no persons have yet taken their places4 ,blaine has dropped out1 and is now writing a book4 ,conkling dropped out and is now practicing law1 and so ,i might go on enumerating leaders who have severed their connection with the party and are no longer identified with it4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion regarding the ,republican nomination for ,president8 ,answer4 ,my belief is that the ,republicans will have to nominate some man who has not been conspicuous in any faction1 and upon whom all can unite4 ,as a consequence he must be a new man4 ,the ,democrats must do the same4 ,they must nominate a new man4 ,the old ones have been defeated so often that they start handicapped with their own histories1 and failure in the past is very poor raw material out of which to manufacture faith for the future4 ,my own judgment is that for the ,democrats1 ,mc,donald is as strong a man as they can get4 ,he is a man of most excellent sense and would be regarded as a safe man4 ,tilden8 ,he is dead1 and he occupies no stronger place in the general heart than a graven image4 ,with no magnetism1 he has nothing save his smartness to recommend him4 ,question4 ,what are your views1 generally expressed1 on the tariff8 ,answer4 ,there are a great many ,democrats for protection and a great many for so-called free trade4 ,i think the large majority of ,american people favor a reasonable tariff for raising our revenue and protecting our manufactures4 ,i do not believe in tariff for revenue only1 but for revenue and protection4 ,the ,democrats would have carried the country had they combined revenue and incidental protection4 ,question4 ,are they rectifying the error now8 ,answer4 ,i believe they are1 already4 ,they will do it next fall4 ,if they do not put it in their platform they will embody it in their speeches4 ,i do not regard the tariff as a local1 but a national issue1 notwithstanding ,hancock inclined to the belief that it was the former4 --,the ,times1 ,chicago1 ,illinois1 ,october #ac1 #ahhc4 ,,the ,,republican ,,defeat ,,in ,,ohio4 ,question4 ,what is your explanation of the ,republican disaster last ,tuesday8 ,answer4 ,too much praying and not enough paying1 is my explanation of the ,republican defeat4 ,first4 ,i think the attempt to pass the ,prohibition ,amendment lost thousands of votes4 ,the people of this country1 no matter how much they may deplore the evils of intemperance1 are not yet willing to set on foot a system of spying into each other's affairs4 ,they know that prohibition would need thousands of officers--that it would breed informers and spies and peekers and skulkers by the hundred in every county4 ,they know that laws do not of themselves make good people4 ,good people make good laws4 ,americans do not wish to be temperate upon compulsion4 ,the spirit that resents interference in these matters is the same spirit that made and keeps this a free country4 ,all this crusade and prayer-meeting business will not do in politics4 ,we must depend upon the countless influences of civilization1 upon science1 art1 music--upon the softening influences of kindness and argument4 ,as life becomes valuable people will take care of it4 ,temperance upon compulsion destroys something more valuable than itself--liberty4 ,i am for the largest liberty in all things4 ,second4 ,the ,prohibitionists1 in my opinion1 traded with ,democrats4 ,the ,democrats were smart enough to know that prohibition could not carry1 and that they could safely trade4 ,the ,prohibitionists were insane enough to vote for their worst enemies1 just for the sake of polling a large vote for prohibition1 and were fooled as usual4 ,thirdly4 ,certain personal hatreds of certain ,republican politicians4 ,these were the causes which led to ,republican defeat in ,ohio4 ,question4 ,will it necessitate the nomination of an ,ohio ,republican next year8 ,answer4 ,i do not think so4 ,defeat is apt to breed dissension1 and on account of that dissension the party will have to take a man from some other ,state4 ,one politician will say to another1 ,you did it1 and another will reply1 ,you are the man who ruined the party4 ,i think we have given ,ohio her share2 certainly she has given us ours4 ,question4 ,will this reverse seriously affect ,republican chances next year8 ,answer4 ,if the country is prosperous next year1 if the crops are good1 if prices are fair1 if ,pittsburg is covered with smoke1 if the song of the spindle is heard in ,lowell1 if stocks are healthy1 the ,republicans will again succeed4 ,if the reverse as to crops and forges and spindles1 then the ,democrats will win4 ,it is a question of chich-bugs1 and floods and drouths4 ,question4 ,who1 in your judgment1 would be the strongest man the ,republicans could put up8 ,answer4 ,last year ,i thought ,general ,sherman1 but he has gone to ,missouri1 and now ,i am looking around4 ,the first day ,i find out ,i will telegraph you4 --,the ,democrat1 ,dayton1 ,ohio1 ,october #ae1 #ahhc4 ,,the ,,civil ,,rights ,,bill4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the recent opinion of the ,supreme ,court touching the rights of the colored man8 ,answer4 ,i think it is all wrong4 ,the intention of the framers of the amendment1 by virtue of which the law was passed1 was that no distinction should be made in inns1 in hotels1 cars1 or in theatres2 in short1 in public places1 on account of color1 race1 or previous condition4 ,the object of the men who framed that amendment to the ,constitution was perfectly clear1 perfectly well known1 perfectly understood4 ,they intended to secure1 by an amendment to the fundamental law1 what had been fought for by hundreds of thousands of men4 ,they knew that the institution of slavery had cost rebellion2 the also knew that the spirit of caste was only slavery in another form4 ,they intended to kill that spirit4 ,their object was that the law1 like the sun1 should shine upon all1 and that no man keeping a hotel1 no corporation running cars1 no person managing a theatre should make any distinction on account of race or color4 ,this amendment is above all praise4 ,it was the result of a moral exaltation1 such as the world never before had seen4 ,there were years during the war1 and after1 when the ,american people were simply sublime2 when their generosity was boundless2 when they were willing to endure any hardship to make this an absolutely free country4 ,this decision of the ,supreme ,court puts the best people of the colored race at the mercy of the meanest portion of the white race4 ,it allows a contemptible white man to trample upon a good colored man4 ,i believe in drawing a line between good and bad1 between clean and unclean1 but ,i do not believe in drawing a color line which is as cruel as the lash of slavery4 ,i am willing to be on an equality in all hotels1 in all cars1 in all theatres1 with colored people4 ,i make no distinction of race4 ,those make the distinction who cannot afford not to4 ,if nature has made no distinction between me and some others1 ,i do not ask the aid of the ,legislature4 ,i am willing to associate with all good1 clean persons1 irrespective of complexion4 ,this decision virtually gives away one of the great principles for which the war was fought4 ,it carries the doctrine of ,state ,rights to the ,democratic extreme1 and renders necessary either another amendment or a new court4 ,i agree with ,justice ,harlan4 ,he has taken a noble and patriotic stand4 ,kentucky rebukes ,massachusetts6 ,i am waiting with some impatience--impatient because ,i anticipate a pleasure--for his dissenting opinion4 ,only a little while ago ,justice ,harlan took a very noble stand on the ,virginia ,coupon cases1 in which was involved the right of a ,state to repudiate its debts4 ,now he has taken a stand in favor of the civil rights of the colored man2 and in both instances ,i think he is right4 ,this decision may1 after all1 help the ,republican party4 ,a decision of the ,supreme ,court aroused the indignation of the entire ,north1 and ,i hope the present decision will have a like effect4 ,the good people of this country will not be satisfied until every man beneath the flag1 without the slightest respect to his complexion1 stands on a perfect equality before the law with every other4 ,any government that makes a distinction on account of color1 is a disgrace to the age in which we live4 ,the idea that a man like ,frederick ,douglass can be denied entrance to a car1 that the doors of a hotel can be shut in his face2 that he may be prevented from entering a theatre2 the idea that there shall be some ignominious corner into which such a man can be thrown simply by a decision of the ,supreme ,court6 ,this idea is simply absurd4 ,question4 ,what remains to be done now1 and who is going to do it8 ,answer4 ,for a good while people have been saying that the ,republican party has outlived its usefulness2 that there is very little difference now between the parties2 that there is hardly enough left to talk about4 ,this decision opens the whole question4 ,this decision says to the ,republican party1 ,your mission is not yet ended4 ,this is not a free country4 ,our flag does not protect the rights of a human being4 ,this decision is the tap of a drum4 ,the old veterans will fall into line4 ,this decision gives the issue for the next campaign1 and it may be that the ,supreme ,court has builded wiser than it knew4 ,this is a greater question than the tariff or free trade4 ,it is a question of freedom1 of human rights1 of the sacredness of humanity4 ,the real ,americans1 the real believers in ,liberty1 will give three cheers for ,judge ,harlan4 ,one word more4 ,the ,government is bound to protect its citizens1 not only when they are away from home1 but when they are under the flag4 ,in time of war the ,government has a right to draft any citizen2 to put that citizen in the line of battle1 and compel him to fight for the nation4 ,if the ,government when imperiled has the right to compel a citizen1 whether white or black1 to defend with his blood the flag1 that citizen1 when imperiled1 has the right to demand protection from the ,nation4 ,the ,nation cannot then say1 ,you must appeal to your ,state4 ,if the citizen must appeal to the ,state for redress1 then the citizen should defend the ,state and not the ,general ,government1 and the doctrine of ,state ,rights then becomes complete4 --,the ,national ,republican1 ,washington1 ,d4 ,c41 ,october #ag1 #ahhc4 ,,justice ,,harlan ,,and ,,the ,,civil ,,rights ,,bill4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,justice ,harlan's dissenting opinion in the ,civil ,rights case8 ,answer4 ,i have just read it and think it admirable in every respect4 ,it is unanswerable4 ,he has given to words their natural meaning4 ,he has recognized the intention of the framers of the recent amendments4 ,there is nothing in this opinion that is strained1 insincere1 or artificial4 ,it is frank and manly4 ,it is solid masonry1 without crack or flaw4 ,he does not resort to legal paint or putty1 or to verbal varnish or veneer4 ,he states the position of his brethren of the bench with perfect fairness1 and overturns it with perfect ease4 ,he has drawn an instructive parallel between the decisions of the olden time1 upholding the power of ,congress to deal with individuals in the interests of slavery1 and the power conferred on ,congress by the recent amendments4 ,he has shown by the old decisions1 that when a duty is enjoined upon ,congress1 ability to perform it is given2 that when a certain end is required1 all necessary means are granted4 ,he also shows that the ,fugitive ,slave ,acts of #agic and of #ahej1 rested entirely upon the implied power of ,congress to enforce a master's rights2 and that power was once implied in favor of slavery against human rights1 and implied from language shadowy1 feeble and uncertain when compared with the language of the recent amendments4 ,he has shown1 too1 that ,congress exercised the utmost ingenuity in devising laws to enforce the master's claim4 ,implication was held ample to deprive a human being of his liberty1 but to secure freedom1 the doctrine of implication is abandoned4 ,as a foundation for wrong1 implication was their rock4 ,as a foundation for right1 it is now sand4 ,implied power then was sufficient to enslave1 while power expressly given is now impotent to protect4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the use he has made of the ,dred ,scott decision8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i think he has shown conclusively that the present decision1 under the present circumstances1 is far worse than the ,dred ,scott decision was under the then circumstances4 ,the ,dred ,scott decision was a libel upon the best men of the ,revolutionary period4 ,that decision asserted broadly that our forefathers regarded the negroes as having no rights which white men were bound to respect2 that the negroes were merely merchandise1 and that that opinion was fixed and universal in the civilized portion of the white race1 and that no one thought of disputing it4 ,yet ,franklin contended that slavery might be abolished under the preamble of the ,constitution4 ,thomas ,jefferson said that if the slave should rise to cut the throat of his master1 ,god had no attribute that would side against the slave4 ,thomas ,paine attacked the institution with all the intensity and passion of his nature4 ,john ,adams regarded the institution with horror4 ,so did every civilized man1 ,south and ,north4 ,justice ,harlan shows conclusively that the ,thirteenth ,amendment was adopted in the light of the ,dred ,scott decision2 that it overturned and destroyed1 not simply the decision1 but the reasoning upon which it was based2 that it proceeded upon the ground that the colored people had rights that white men were bound to respect1 not only1 but that the ,nation was bound to protect4 ,he takes the ground that the amendment was suggested by the condition of that race1 which had been declared by the ,supreme ,court of the ,united ,states to have no rights which white men were bound to respect2 that it was made to protect people whose rights had been invaded1 and whose strong arms had assisted in the overthrow of the ,rebellion2 that it was made for the purpose of putting these men upon a legal authority with white citizens4 ,justice ,harland also shows that while legislation of ,congress to enforce a master's right was upheld by implication1 the rights of the negro do not depend upon that doctrine2 that the ,thirteenth ,amendment does not rest upon implication1 or upon inference2 that by its terms it places the power in ,congress beyond the possibility of a doubt--conferring the power to enforce the amendment by appropriate legislation in express terms2 and he also shows that the ,supreme ,court has admitted that legislation for that purpose may be direct and primary4 ,had not the power been given in express terms1 ,justice ,harlan contends that the sweeping declaration that neither slavery nor involuntary servitude shall exist would by implication confer the power4 ,he also shows conclusively that1 under the ,thirteenth ,amendment1 ,congress has the right by appropriate legislation to protect the colored people against the deprivation of any right on account of their race1 and that ,congress is not necessarily restricted1 under the ,thirteenth ,amendment1 to legislation against slavery as an institution1 but that power may be exerted to the extent of protecting the race from discrimination in respect to such rights as belong to freemen1 where such discrimination is based on race or color4 ,if ,justice ,harlan is wrong the amendments are left without force and ,congress without power4 ,no purpose can be assigned for their adoption4 ,no object can be guessed that was to be accomplished4 ,they become words1 so arranged that they sound like sense1 but when examined fall meaninglessly apart4 ,under the decision of the ,supreme ,court they are ,quaker cannon--cloud forts--property for political stage scenery--coats of mail made of bronzed paper-- shields of gilded pasteboard--swords of lath4 ,question4 ,do you wish to say anything as to the reasoning of ,justice ,harlan on the rights of colored people on railways1 in inns and theatres8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i do4 ,that part of the opinion is especially strong4 ,he shows conclusively that a common carrier is in the exercise of a sort of public office and has public duties to perform1 and that he cannot exonerate himself from the performance of these duties without the consent of the parties concerned4 ,he also shows that railroads are public highways1 and that the railway company is the agent of the ,state1 and that a railway1 although built by private capital1 is just as public in its nature as though constructed by the ,state itself4 ,he shows that the railway is devoted to public use1 and subject to be controlled by the ,state for the public benefit1 and that for these reasons the colored man has the same rights upon the railway that he has upon the public highway4 ,justice ,harlan shows that the same law is applicable to inns that is applicable to railways2 that an inn-keeper is bound to take all travelers if he can accommodate them2 that he is not to select his guests2 that he has not right to say to one you may come in1 and to another you shall not2 that every one who conducts himself in a proper manner has a right to be received4 ,he shows conclusively that an inn-keeper is a sort of public servant2 that he is in the exercise of a quasi public employment1 that he is given special privileges1 and charged with duties of a public character4 ,as to theatres1 ,i think his argument most happy4 ,it is this3 ,theatres are licensed by law4 ,the authority to maintain them comes from the public4 ,the colored race being a part of the public1 representing the power granting the license1 why should the colored people license a manager to open his doors to the white man and shut them in the face of the black man8 ,why should they be compelled to license that which they are not permitted to enjoy8 ,justice ,harlan shows that ,congress has the power to prevent discrimination on account of race or color on railways1 at inns1 and in places of public amusements1 and has this power under the ,thirteenth ,amendment4 ,in discussing the ,fourteenth ,amendment1 ,justice ,harlan points out that a prohibition upon a ,state is not a power in ,congress or the ,national ,government1 but is simply a denial of power to the ,state2 that such was the ,constitution before the ,fourteenth ,amendment4 ,he shows1 however1 that the ,fourteenth ,amendment presents the first instance in our history of the investiture of ,congress with affirmative power by legislation to enforce an express prohibition upon the ,states4 ,this is an important point4 ,it is stated with great clearness1 and defended with great force4 ,he shows that the first clause of the first section of the ,fourteenth ,amendment is of a distinctly affirmative character1 and that ,congress would have had the power to legislate directly as to that section simply by implication1 but that as to that as well as the express prohibitions upon the ,states1 express power to legislate was given4 ,there is one other point made by ,justice ,harlan which transfixes as with a spear the decision of the ,court4 ,it is this3 ,as soon as the ,thirteenth and ,fourteenth ,amendments were adopted the colored citizen was entitled to the protection of section two1 article four1 namely3 ,the citizens of each ,state shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens of the several ,states4 ,now1 suppose a colored citizen of ,mississippi moves to ,tennessee4 ,then1 under the section last quoted1 he would immediately become invested with all the privileges and immunities of a white citizen of ,tennessee4 ,although denied these privileges and immunities in the ,state from which he emigrated1 in the ,state to which he immigrates he could not be discriminated against on account of his color under the second section of the fourth article4 ,now1 is it possible that he gets additional rights by immigration8 ,is it possible that the ,general ,government is under a greater obligation to protect him in a ,state of which he is not a citizen than in a ,state of which he is a citizen8 ,must he leave home for protection1 and after he has lived long enough in the ,state to which he immigrates to become a citizen there1 must he again move in order to protect his rights8 ,must one adopt the doctrine of peripatetic protection--the doctrine that the ,constitution is good only in transitu1 and that when the citizen stops1 the ,constitution goes on and leaves him without protection8 ,justice ,harlan shows that ,congress had the right to legislate directly while that power was only implied1 but that the moment this power was conferred in express terms1 then according to the ,supreme ,court1 it was lost4 ,there is another splendid definition given by ,justice ,harlan--a line drawn as broad as the ,mississippi4 ,it is the distinction between the rights conferred by a ,state and rights conferred by the ,nation4 ,admitting that many rights conferred by a ,state cannot be enforced directly by ,congress1 ,justice ,harlan shows that rights granted by the ,nation to an individual may be protected by direct legislation4 ,this is a distinction that should not be forgotten1 and it is a definition clear and perfect4 ,justice ,harlan has shown that the ,supreme ,court failed to take into consideration the intention of the framers of the amendment2 failed to see that the powers of ,congress were given by express terms and did not rest upon implication2 failed to see that the ,thirteenth ,amendment was broad enough to cover the ,civil ,rights ,act2 failed to see that under the three amendments rights and privileges were conferred by the ,nation on citizens of the several ,states1 and that these rights are under the perpetual protection of the ,general ,government1 and that for their enforcement ,congress has the right to legislate directly2 failed to see that all implications are now in favor of liberty instead of slavery2 failed to comprehend that we have a new nation with a new foundation1 with different objects1 ends1 and aims1 for the attainment of which we use different means and have been clothed with greater powers2 failed to see that the ,republic changed front2 failed to appreciate the real reasons for the adoption of the amendments1 and failed to understand that the ,civil ,rights ,act was passed in order that a citizen of the ,united ,states might appeal from local prejudice to national justice4 ,justice ,harlan shows that it was the object to accomplish for the black man what had been accomplished for the white man--that is1 to protect all their rights as free men and citizens2 and that the one underlying purpose of the amendments and of the congressional legislation has been to clothe the black race with all the rights of citizenship1 and to compel a recognition of their rights by citizens and ,states--that the object was to do away with class tyranny1 the meanest and basest form of oppression4 ,if ,justice ,harlan was wrong in his position1 then1 it may truthfully be said of the three amendments that3 ,the law hath bubbles as the water has1 ,and these are of them4 ,the decision of the ,supreme ,court denies the protection of the ,nation to the citizens of the ,nation4 ,that decision has already borne fruit--the massacre at ,danville4 ,the protection of the ,nation having been withdrawn1 the colored man was left to the mercy of local prejudices and hatreds4 ,he is without appeal1 without redress4 ,the ,supreme ,court tells him that he must depend upon his enemies for justice4 ,question4 ,you seem to agree with all that ,justice ,harlan has said1 and to have the greatest admiration for his opinion8 ,answer4 ,yes1 a man rises from reading this dissenting opinion refreshed1 invigorated1 and strengthened4 ,it is a mental and moral tonic4 ,it was produced after a clear head had held conference with a good heart4 ,it will furnish a perfectly clear plank1 without knot or wind-shake1 for the next ,republican platform4 ,it is written in good plain ,english1 and ornamented with good sound sense4 ,the average man can and will understand its every word4 ,there is no subterfuge in it4 ,each position is taken in the open field4 ,there is no resort to quibbles or technicalities--no hiding4 ,nothing is secreted in the sleeve--no searching for blind paths--no stooping and looking for ancient tracks1 grass-grown and dim4 ,each argument travels the highway--the big road4 ,it is logical4 ,the facts and conclusions agree1 and fall naturally into line of battle4 ,it is sincere and candid--unpretentious and unanswerable4 ,it is a grand defence of human rights--a brave and manly plea for universal justice4 ,it leaves the decision of the ,supreme ,court without argument1 without reason1 and without excuse4 ,such an exhibition of independence1 courage and ability has won for ,justice ,harlan the respect and admiration of both sides1 and places him in the front rank of constitutional lawyers4 --,the ,inter-,ocean1 ,chicago1 ,illinois1 ,november #bi1 #ahhc4 ,,politics ,,and ,,theology4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,brewster's administration8 ,answer4 ,i hardly think ,i ought to say much about the administration of ,mr4 ,brewster4 ,of course many things have been done that ,i thought1 and still think1 extremely bad2 but whether ,mr4 ,brewster was responsible for the things done1 or not1 ,i do not pretend to say4 ,when he was appointed to his present position1 there was great excitement in the country about the ,star ,route cases1 and ,mr4 ,brewster was expected to prosecute everybody and everything to the extent of the law2 in fact1 ,i believe he was appointed by reason of having made such a promise4 ,at that time there were hundreds of people interested in exaggerating all the facts connected with the ,star ,route cases1 and when there were no facts to be exaggerated1 they made some1 and exaggerated them afterward4 ,it may be that the ,attorney-,general was misled1 and he really supposed that all he heard was true4 ,my objection to the administration of the ,department of ,justice is1 that a resort was had to spies and detectives4 ,the battle was not fought in the open field4 ,influences were brought to bear4 ,nearly all departments of the ,government were enlisted4 ,everything was done to create a public opinion in favor of the prosecution4 ,everything was done that the cases might be decided on prejudice instead of upon facts4 ,everything was done to demoralize1 frighten and overawe judges1 witnesses and jurors4 ,i do not pretend to say who was responsible1 possibly ,i am not an impartial judge4 ,i was deeply interested at the time1 and felt all of these things1 rather than reasoned about them4 ,possibly ,i cannot give a perfectly unbiased opinion4 ,personally1 ,i have no feeling now upon the subject4 ,the ,department of ,justice1 in spite of its methods1 did not succeed4 ,that was enough for me4 ,i think1 however1 when the country knows the facts1 that the people will not approve of what was done4 ,i do not believe in trying cases in the newspapers before they are submitted to jurors4 ,that is a little too early4 ,neither do ,i believe in trying them in the newspapers after the verdicts have been rendered4 ,that is a little too late4 ,question4 ,what are ,mr4 ,blaine's chances for the presidency8 ,answer4 ,my understanding is that ,mr4 ,blaine is not a candidate for the nomination2 that he does not wish his name to be used in that connection4 ,he ought to have been nominated in #ahgf1 and if he were a candidate1 he would probably have the largest following2 but my understanding is1 that he does not1 in any event1 wish to be a candidate4 ,he is a man perfectly familiar with the politics of this country1 knows its history by heart1 and is in every respect probably as well qualified to act as its ,chief ,magistrate as any man in the nation4 ,he is a man of ideas1 of action1 and has positive qualities4 ,he would not wait for something to turn up1 and things would not have to wait long for him to turn them up4 ,question4 ,who do you think will be nominated at ,chicago8 ,answer4 ,of course ,i have not the slightest idea who will be nominated4 ,i may have an opinion as to who ought to be nominated1 and yet ,i may be greatly mistaken in that opinion4 ,there are hundreds of men in the ,republican party1 any one of whom1 if elected1 would make a good1 substantial ,president1 and there are many thousands of men about whom ,i know nothing1 any one of whom would in all probability make a good ,president4 ,we do not want any man to govern this country4 ,this country governs itself4 ,we want a ,president who will honestly and faithfully execute the laws1 who will appoint postmasters and do the requisite amount of handshaking on public occasions1 and we have thousands of men who can discharge the duties of that position4 ,washington is probably the worst place to find out anything definite upon the subject of presidential booms4 ,i have thought for a long time that one of the most valuable men in the country was ,general ,sherman4 ,everybody knows who and what he is4 ,he has one great advantage--he is a frank and outspoken man4 ,he has opinions and he never hesitates about letting them be known4 ,there is considerable talk about ,judge ,harlan4 ,his dissenting opinion in the ,civil ,rights case has made every colored man his friend1 and ,i think it will take considerable public patronage to prevent a good many delegates from the ,southern ,states voting for him4 ,question4 ,what are your present views on theology8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i think my views have not undergone any change that ,i know of4 ,i still insist that observation1 reason and experience are the things to be depended upon in this world4 ,i still deny the existence of the supernatural4 ,i still insist that nobody can be good for you1 or bad for you2 that you cannot be punished for the crimes of others1 nor rewarded for their virtues4 ,i still insist that the consequences of good actions are always good1 and those of bad actions always bad4 ,i insist that nobody can plant thistles and gather figs2 neither can they plant figs and gather thistles4 ,i still deny that a finite being can commit an infinite sin2 but ,i continue to insist that a ,god who would punish a man forever is an infinite tyrant4 ,my views have undergone no change1 except that the evidence of that truth constantly increases1 and the dogmas of the church look1 if possible1 a little absurder every day4 ,theology1 you know1 is not a science4 ,it stops at the grave2 and faith is the end of theology4 ,ministers have not even the advantage of the doctors2 the doctors sometimes can tell by a post-mortem examination whether they killed the man or not2 but by cutting a man open after he is dead1 the wisest theologians cannot tell what has become of his soul1 and whether it was injured or helped by a belief in the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,theology depends on assertion for evidence1 and on faith for disciples4 --,the ,tribune1 ,denver1 ,colorado1 ,january #ag1 #ahhf4 ,,morality ,,and ,,immortality4 ,question4 ,i see that the clergy are still making all kinds of charges against you and your doctrines4 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,some of the charges are true and some of them are not4 ,i suppose that they intend to get in the vicinity of veracity1 and are probably stating my belief as it is honestly misunderstood by them4 ,i admit that ,i have said and that ,i still think that ,christianity is a blunder4 ,but the question arises1 ,what is ,christianity8 ,i do not mean1 when ,i say that ,christianity is a blunder1 that the morality taught by ,christians is a mistake4 ,morality is not distinctively ,christian1 any more than it is ,mohammedan4 ,morality is human1 it belongs to no ism1 and does not depend for a foundation upon the supernatural1 or upon any book1 or upon any creed4 ,morality is itself a foundation4 ,when ,i say that ,christianity is a blunder1 ,i mean all those things distinctively ,christian are blunders4 ,it is a blunder to say that an infinite being lived in ,palestine1 learned the carpenter's trade1 raised the dead1 cured the blind1 and cast out devils1 and that this ,god was finally assassinated by the ,jews4 ,this is absurd4 ,all these statements are blunders1 if not worse4 ,i do not believe that ,christ ever claimed that he was of supernatural origin1 or that he wrought miracles1 or that he would rise from the dead4 ,if he did1 he was mistaken--honestly mistaken1 perhaps1 but still mistaken4 ,the morality inculcated by ,mohammed is good4 ,the immorality inculcated by ,mohammed is bad4 ,if ,mohammed was a prophet of ,god1 it does not make the morality he taught any better1 neither does it make the immorality any better or any worse4 ,by this time the whole world ought to know that morality does not need to go into partnership with miracles4 ,morality is based upon the experience of mankind4 ,it does not have to learn of inspired writers1 or of gods1 or of divine persons4 ,it is a lesson that the whole human race has been learning and learning from experience4 ,he who upholds1 or believes in1 or teaches1 the miraculous1 commits a blunder4 ,now1 what is morality8 ,morality is the best thing to do under the circumstances4 ,anything that tends to the happiness of mankind is moral4 ,anything that tends to unhappiness is immoral4 ,we apply to the moral world rules and regulations as we do in the physical world4 ,the man who does justice1 or tries to do so--who is honest and kind and gives to others what he claims for himself1 is a moral man4 ,all actions must be judged by their consequences4 ,where the consequences are good1 the actions are good4 ,where the consequences are bad1 the actions are bad2 and all consequences are learned from experience4 ,after we have had a certain amount of experience1 we then reason from analogy4 ,we apply our logic and say that a certain course will bring destruction1 another course will bring happiness4 ,there is nothing inspired about morality--nothing supernatural4 ,it is simply good1 common sense1 going hand in hand with kindness4 ,morality is capable of being demonstrated4 ,you do not have to take the word of anybody2 you can observe and examine for yourself4 ,larceny is the enemy of industry1 and industry is good2 therefore larceny is immoral4 ,the family is the unit of good government2 anything that tends to destroy the family is immoral4 ,honesty is the mother of confidence2 it united1 combines and solidifies society4 ,dishonesty is disintegration2 it destroys confidence2 it brings social chaos2 it is therefore immoral4 ,i also admit that ,i regard the ,mosaic account of the creation as an absurdity--as a series of blunders4 ,probably ,moses did the best he could4 ,he had never talked with ,humboldt or ,laplace4 ,he knew nothing of geology or astronomy4 ,he had not the slightest suspicion of ,kepler's ,three ,laws4 ,he never saw a copy of ,newton's ,principia4 ,taking all these things into consideration1 ,i think ,moses did the best he could4 ,the religious people say now that days did not mean days4 ,of these six days they make a kind of telescope1 which you can push in or draw out at pleasure4 ,if the geologists find that more time was necessary they will stretch them out4 ,should it turn out that the world is not quite as old as some think1 they will push them up4 ,the six days can now be made to suit any period of time4 ,nothing can be more childish1 frivolous or contradictory4 ,only a few years ago the ,mosaic account was considered true1 and ,moses was regarded as a scientific authority4 ,geology and astronomy were measured by the ,mosaic standard4 ,the opposite is now true4 ,the church has changed2 and instead of trying to prove that modern astronomy and geology are false1 because they do not agree with ,moses1 it is now endeavoring to prove that the account by ,moses is true1 because it agrees with modern astronomy and geology4 ,in other words1 the standard has changed2 the ancient is measured by the modern1 and where the literal statement in the ,bible does not agree with modern discoveries1 they do not change the discoveries1 but give new meanings to the old account4 ,we are not now endeavoring to reconcile science with the ,bible1 but to reconcile the ,bible with science4 ,nothing shows the extent of modern doubt more than the eagerness with which ,christians search for some new testimony4 ,luther answered ,copernicus with a passage of ,scripture1 and he answered him to the satisfaction of orthodox ignorance4 ,the truth is that the ,jews adopted the stories of ,creation1 the ,garden of ,eden1 ,forbidden ,fruit1 and the ,fall of ,man4 ,they were told by older barbarians than they1 and the ,jews gave them to us4 ,i never said that the ,bible is all bad4 ,i have always admitted that there are many good and splendid things in the ,jewish ,scriptures1 and many bad things4 ,what ,i insist is that we should have the courage and the common sense to accept the good1 and throw away the bad4 ,evil is not good because found in good company1 and truth is still truth1 even when surrounded by falsehood4 ,question4 ,i see that you are frequently charged with disrespect toward your parents--with lack of reverence for the opinions of your father8 ,answer4 ,i think my father and mother upon several religious questions were mistaken4 ,in fact1 ,i have no doubt that they were2 but ,i never felt under the slightest obligation to defend my father's mistakes4 ,no one can defend what he thinks is a mistake1 without being dishonest4 ,that is a poor way to show respect for parents4 ,every ,protestant clergyman asks men and women who had ,catholic parents to desert the church in which they were raised4 ,they have no hesitation in saying to these people that their fathers and mothers were mistaken1 and that they were deceived by priests and popes4 ,the probability is that we are all mistaken about almost everything2 but it is impossible for a man to be respectable enough to make a mistake respectable4 ,there is nothing remarkably holy in a blunder1 or praiseworthy in stubbing the toe of the mind against a mistake4 ,is it possible that logic stands paralyzed in the presence of paternal absurdity8 ,suppose a man has a bad father2 is he bound by the bad father's opinion1 when he is satisfied that the opinion is wrong8 ,how good does a father have to be1 in order to put his son under obligation to defend his blunders8 ,suppose the father thinks one way1 and the mother the other2 what are the children to do8 ,suppose the father changes his opinion2 what then8 ,suppose the father thinks one way and the mother the other1 and they both die when the boy is young2 and the boy is bound out2 whose mistakes is he then bound to follow8 ,our missionaries tell the barbarian boy that his parents are mistaken1 that they know nothing1 and that the wooden god is nothing but a senseless idol4 ,they do not hesitate to tell this boy that his mother believed lies1 and hugged1 it may be to her dying heart1 a miserable delusion4 ,why should a barbarian boy cast reproach upon his parents8 ,i believe it was ,christ who commanded his disciples to leave father and mother2 not only to leave them1 but to desert them2 and not only to desert father and mother1 but to desert wives and children4 ,it is also told of ,christ that he said that he came to set fathers against children and children against fathers4 ,strange that a follower of his should object to a man differing in opinion from his parents6 ,the truth is1 logic knows nothing of consanguinity2 facts have no relatives but other facts2 and these facts do not depend upon the character of the person who states them1 or upon the position of the discoverer4 ,and this leads me to another branch of the same subject4 ,the ministers are continually saying that certain great men--kings1 presidents1 statesmen1 millionaires--have believed in the inspiration of the ,bible4 ,only the other day1 ,i read a sermon in which ,carlyle was quoted as having said that the ,bible is a noble book4 ,that all may be and yet the book not be inspired4 ,but what is the simple assertion of ,thomas ,carlyle worth8 ,if the assertion is based upon a reason1 then it is worth simply the value of the reason1 and the reason is worth just as much without the assertion1 but without the reason the assertion is worthless4 ,thomas ,carlyle thought1 and solemnly put the thought in print1 that his father was a greater man than ,robert ,burns4 ,his opinion did ,burns no harm1 and his father no good4 ,since reading his ,reminiscences1 ,i have no great opinion of his opinion4 ,in some respects he was undoubtedly a great man1 in others a small one4 ,no man should give the opinion of another as authority and in place of fact and reason1 unless he is willing to take all the opinions of that man4 ,an opinion is worth the warp and woof of fact and logic in it and no more4 ,a man cannot add to the truthfulness of truth4 ,in the ordinary business of life1 we give certain weight to the opinion of specialists--to the opinion of doctors1 lawyers1 scientists1 and historians4 ,within the domain of the natural1 we take the opinions of our fellow-men2 but we do not feel that we are absolutely bound by these opinions4 ,we have the right to re- examine them1 and if we find they are wrong we feel at liberty to say so4 ,a doctor is supposed to have studied medicine2 to have examined and explored the questions entering into his profession2 but we know that doctors are often mistaken4 ,we also know that there are many schools of medicine2 that these schools disagree with one another1 and that the doctors of each school disagree with one another4 ,we also know that many patients die1 and so far as we know1 these patients have not come back to tell us whether the doctors killed them or not4 ,the grave generally prevents a demonstration4 ,it is exactly the same with the clergy4 ,they have many schools of theology1 all despising each other4 ,probably no two members of the same church exactly agree4 ,they cannot demonstrate their propositions1 because between the premise and the logical conclusion or demonstration1 stands the tomb4 ,a gravestone marks the end of theology4 ,in some cases1 the physician can1 by a post- mortem examination1 find what killed the patient1 but there is no theological post-mortem4 ,it is impossible1 by cutting a body open1 to find where the soul has gone2 or whether baptism1 or the lack of it1 had the slightest effect upon final destiny4 ,the church1 knowing that there are no facts beyond the coffin1 relies upon opinions1 assertions and theories4 ,for this reason it is always asking alms of distinguished people4 ,some ,president wishes to be re-elected1 and thereupon speaks about the ,bible as the corner- stone of ,american ,liberty4 ,this sentence is a mouth large enough to swallow any church1 and from that time forward the religious people will be citing that remark of the politician to substantiate the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,the man who accepts opinions because they have been entertained by distinguished people1 is a mental snob4 ,when we blindly follow authority we are serfs4 ,when our reason is convinced we are freemen4 ,it is rare to find a fully rounded and complete man4 ,a man may be a great doctor and a poor mechanic1 a successful politician and a poor metaphysician1 a poor painter and a good poet4 ,the rarest thing in the world is a logician--that is to say1 a man who knows the value of a fact4 ,it is hard to find mental proportion4 ,theories may be established by names1 but facts cannot be demonstrated in that way4 ,very small people are sometimes right1 and very great people are sometimes wrong4 ,ministers are sometimes right4 ,in all the philosophies of the world there are undoubtedly contradictions and absurdities4 ,the mind of man is imperfect and perfect results are impossible4 ,a mirror1 in order to reflect a perfect picture1 a perfect copy1 must itself be perfect4 ,the mind is a little piece of intellectual glass the surface of which is not true1 not perfect4 ,in consequence of this1 every image is more or less distorted4 ,the less we know1 the more we imagine that we can know2 but the more we know1 the smaller seems the sum of knowledge4 ,the less we know1 the more we expect1 the more we hope for1 and the more seems within the range of probability4 ,the less we have1 the more we want4 ,there never was a banquet magnificent enough to gratify the imagination of a beggar4 ,the moment people begin to reason about what they call the supernatural1 they seem to lose their minds4 ,people seem to have lost their reason in religious matters1 very much as the dodo is said to have lost its wings2 they have been restricted to a little inspired island1 and by disuse their reason has been lost4 ,in the ,jewish ,scriptures you will find simply the literature of the ,jews4 ,you will find there the tears and anguish of captivity1 patriotic fervor1 national aspiration1 proverbs for the conduct of daily life1 laws1 regulations1 customs1 legends1 philosophy and folly4 ,these books1 of course1 were not written by one man1 but by many authors4 ,they do not agree1 having been written in different centuries1 under different circumstances4 ,i see that ,mr4 ,beecher has at last concluded that the ,old ,testament does not teach the doctrine of immortality4 ,he admits that from ,mount ,sinai came no hope for the dead4 ,it is very curious that we find in the ,old ,testament no funeral service4 ,no one stands by the dead and predicts another life4 ,in the ,old ,testament there is no promise of another world4 ,i have sometimes thought that while the ,jews were slaves in ,egypt1 the doctrine of immortality became hateful4 ,they built so many tombs2 they carried so many burdens to commemorate the dead2 the saw a nation waste its wealth to adorn its graves1 and leave the living naked to embalm the dead1 that they concluded the doctrine was a curse and never should be taught4 ,question4 ,if the ,jews did not believe in immortality1 how do you account for the allusions made to witches and wizards and things of that nature8 ,answer4 ,when ,saul visited the ,witch of ,endor1 and she1 by some magic spell1 called up ,samuel1 the prophet said3 ,why hast thou disquieted me1 to call me up8 ,he did not say3 ,why have you called me from another world8 ,the idea expressed is3 ,i was asleep1 why did you disturb that repose which should be eternal8 ,the ancient ,jews believed in witches and wizards and familiar spirits2 but they did not seem to think that these spirits had once been men and women4 ,they spoke to them as belonging to another world1 a world to which man would never find his way4 ,at that time it was supposed that ,jehovah and his angels lived in the sky1 but that region was not spoken of as the destined home of man4 ,jacob saw angels going up and down the ladder1 but not the spirits of those he had known4 ,there are two cases where it seems that men were good enough to be adopted into the family of heaven4 ,enoch was translated1 and ,elijah was taken up in a chariot of fire4 ,as it is exceedingly cold at the height of a few miles1 it is easy to see why the chariot was of fire1 and the same fact explains another circumstance--the dropping of the mantle4 ,the ,jews probably believed in the existence of other beings--that is to say1 in angels and gods and evil spirits --and that they lived in other worlds--but there is no passage showing that they believed in what we call the immortality of the soul4 ,question4 ,do you believe1 or disbelieve1 in the immortality of the soul8 ,answer4 ,i neither assert nor deny2 ,i simply admit that ,i do not know4 ,upon that subject ,i am absolutely without evidence4 ,this is the only world that ,i was ever in4 ,there may be spirits1 but ,i have never met them1 and do not know that ,i would recognize a spirit4 ,i can form no conception of what is called spiritual life4 ,it may be that ,i am deficient in imagination1 and that ministers have no difficulty in conceiving of angels and disembodied souls4 ,i have not the slightest idea how a soul looks1 what shape it is1 how it goes from one place to another1 whether it walks or flies4 ,i cannot conceive of the immaterial having form2 neither can ,i conceive of anything existing without form1 and yet the fact that ,i cannot conceive of a thing does not prove that the thing does not exist1 but it does prove that ,i know nothing about it1 and that being so1 ,i ought to admit my ignorance4 ,i am satisfied of a good many things that ,i do not know4 ,i am satisfied that there is no place of eternal torment4 ,i am satisfied that that doctrine has done more harm than all the religious ideas1 other than that1 have done good4 ,i do not want to take any hope from any human heart4 ,i have no objection to people believing in any good thing--no objection to their expecting a crown of infinite joy for every human being4 ,many people imagine that immortality must be an infinite good2 but1 after all1 there is something terrible in the idea of endless life4 ,think of a river that never reaches the sea2 of a bird that never folds its wings2 of a journey that never ends4 ,most people find great pleasure in thinking about and in believing in another world4 ,there the prisoner expects to be free2 the slave to find liberty2 the poor man expects wealth2 the rich man happiness2 the peasant dreams of power1 and the king of contentment4 ,they expect to find there what they lack here4 ,i do not wish to destroy these dreams4 ,i am endeavoring to put out the everlasting fires4 ,a good1 cool grave is infinitely better than the fiery furnace of ,jehovah's wrath4 ,eternal sleep is better than eternal pain4 ,for my part ,i would rather be annihilated than to be an angel1 with all the privileges of heaven1 and yet have within my breast a heart that could be happy while those who had loved me in this world were in perdition4 ,i most sincerely hope that the future life will fulfill all splendid dreams2 but in the religion of the present day there is no joy4 ,nothing is so devoid of comfort1 when bending above our dead1 as the assertions of theology unsupported by a single fact4 ,the promises are so far away1 and the dead are so near4 ,from words spoken eighteen centuries ago1 the echoes are so weak1 and the sounds of the clods on the coffin are so loud4 ,above the grave what can the honest minister say8 ,if the dead were not a ,christian1 what then8 ,what comfort can the orthodox clergyman give to the widow of an honest unbeliever8 ,if ,christianity is true1 the other world will be worse than this4 ,there the many will be miserable1 only the few happy2 there the miserable cannot better their condition2 the future has no star of hope1 and in the east of eternity there can never be a dawn4 ,question4 ,if you take away the idea of eternal punishment1 how do you propose to restrain men2 in what way will you influence conduct for good8 ,answer4 ,well1 the trouble with religion is that it postpones punishment and reward to another world4 ,wrong is wrong1 because it breeds unhappiness4 ,right is right1 because it tends to the happiness of man4 ,these facts are the basis of what ,i call the religion of this world4 ,when a man does wrong1 the consequences follow1 and between the cause and effect1 a ,redeemer cannot step4 ,forgiveness cannot form a breastwork between act and consequence4 ,there should be a religion of the body--a religion that will prevent deformity1 that will refuse to multiply insanity1 that will not propagate disease--a religion that is judged by its consequences in this world4 ,orthodox ,christianity has taught1 and still teaches1 that in this world the difference between the good and the bad is that the bad enjoy themselves1 while the good carry the cross of virtue with bleeding brows bound and pierced with the thorns of honesty and kindness4 ,all this1 in my judgment1 is immoral4 ,the man who does wrong carries a cross4 ,there is no world1 no star1 in which the result of wrong is real happiness4 ,there is no world1 no star1 in which the result of doing right is unhappiness4 ,virtue and vice must be the same everywhere4 ,vice must be vice everywhere1 because its consequences are evil2 and virtue must be virtue everywhere1 because its consequences are good4 ,there can be no such thing as forgiveness4 ,these facts are the only restraining influences possible--the innocent man cannot suffer for the guilty and satisfy the law4 ,question4 ,how do you answer the argument1 or the fact1 that the church is constantly increasing1 and that there are now four hundred millions of ,christians8 ,answer4 ,that is what ,i call the argument of numbers4 ,if that argument is good now1 it was always good4 ,if ,christians were at any time in the minority1 then1 according to this argument1 ,christianity was wrong4 ,every religion that has succeeded has appealed to the argument of numbers4 ,there was a time when ,buddhism was in a majority4 ,buddha not only had1 but has more followers then ,christ4 ,success is not a demonstration4 ,mohammed was a success1 and a success from the commencement4 ,upon a thousand fields he was victor4 ,of the scattered tribes of the desert1 he made a nation1 and this nation took the fairest part of ,europe from the followers of the cross4 ,in the history of the world1 the success of ,mohammed is unparalleled1 but this success does not establish that he was the prophet of ,god4 ,now1 it is claimed that there are some four hundred millions of ,christians4 ,to make that total ,i am counted as a ,christian2 ,i am one of the fifty or sixty millions of ,christians in the ,united ,states--excluding ,indians1 not taxed4 ,by this census report1 we are all going to heaven--we are all orthodox4 ,at the last great day we can refer with confidence to the ponderous volumes containing the statistics of the ,united ,states4 ,as a matter of fact1 how many ,christians are there in the ,united ,states--how many believers in the inspiration of the ,scriptures--how many real followers of ,christ8 ,i will not pretend to give the number1 but ,i will venture to say that there are not fifty millions4 ,how many in ,england8 ,where are the four hundred millions found8 ,to make this immense number1 they have counted all the ,heretics1 all the ,catholics1 all the ,jews1 ,spiritualists1 ,universalists and ,unitarians1 all the babes1 all the idiotic and insane1 all the ,infidels1 all the scientists1 all the unbelievers4 ,as a matter of fact1 they have no right to count any except the orthodox members of the orthodox churches4 ,there may be more members now than formerly1 and this increase of members is due to a decrease of religion4 ,thousands of members are only nominal ,christians1 wearing the old uniform simply because they do not wish to be charged with desertion4 ,the church1 too1 is a kind of social institution1 a club with a creed instead of by-laws1 and the creed is never defended unless attacked by an outsider4 ,no objection is made to the minister because he is liberal1 if he says nothing about it in his pulpit4 ,a man like ,mr4 ,beecher draws a congregation1 not because he is a ,christian1 but because he is a genius2 not because he is orthodox1 but because he has something to say4 ,he is an intellectual athlete4 ,he is full of pathos and poetry4 ,he has more description than divinity2 more charity than creed1 and altogether more common sense than theology4 ,for these reasons thousands of people love to hear him4 ,on the other hand1 there are many people who have a morbid desire for the abnormal--for intellectual deformities--for thoughts that have two heads4 ,this accounts for the success of some of ,mr4 ,beecher's rivals4 ,christians claim that success is a test of truth4 ,has any church succeeded as well as the ,catholic8 ,was the tragedy of the ,garden of ,eden a success8 ,who succeeded there8 ,the last best thought is not a success1 if you mean that only that is a success which has succeeded1 and if you mean by succeeding1 that it has won the assent of the majority4 ,besides there is no time fixed for the test4 ,is that true which succeeds to-day1 or next year1 or in the next century8 ,once the ,copernican system was not a success4 ,there is no time fixed4 ,the result is that we have to wait4 ,a thing to exist at all has to be1 to a certain extent1 a success4 ,a thing cannot even die without having been a success4 ,it certainly succeeded enough to have life4 ,presbyterians should remember1 while arguing the majority argument1 and the success argument1 that there are far more ,catholics than ,protestants1 and that the ,catholics can give a longer list of distinguished names4 ,my answer to all this1 however1 is that the history of the world shows that ignorance has always been in the majority4 ,there is one right road2 numberless paths that are wrong4 ,truth is one2 error is many4 ,when a great truth has been discovered1 one man has pitted himself against the world4 ,a few think2 the many believe4 ,the few lead2 the many follow4 ,the light of the new day1 as it looks over the window sill of the east1 falls at first on only one forehead4 ,there is another thing4 ,a great many people pass for ,christians who are not4 ,only a little while ago a couple of ladies were returning from church in a carriage4 ,they had listened to a good orthodox sermon4 ,one said to the other3 ,i am going to tell you something--,i am going to shock you--,i do not believe in the ,bible4 ,and the other replied3 ,neither do ,i4 --,the ,news1 ,detroit1 ,michigan1 ,january #f1 #ahhd4 ,,politics1 ,,mormonism ,,and ,,mr4 ,,beecher ,question4 ,what will be the main issues in the next presidential campaign8 ,answer4 ,i think that the principal issues will be civil rights and protection for ,american industries4 ,the ,democratic party is not a unit on the tariff question--neither is the ,republican2 but ,i think that a majority of the ,democrats are in favor of free trade and a majority of ,republicans in favor of a protective tariff4 ,the ,democratic ,congressmen will talk just enough about free trade to frighten the manufacturing interests of the country1 and probably not quite enough to satisfy the free traders4 ,the result will be that the ,democrats will talk about reforming the tariff1 but will do nothing but talk4 ,i think the tariff ought to be reformed in many particulars2 but as long as we need to raise a great revenue my idea is that it ought to be so arranged as to protect to the utmost1 without producing monopoly in ,american manufacturers4 ,i am in favor of protection because it multiplies industries2 and ,i am in favor of a great number of industries because they develop the brain1 because they give employment to all and allow us to utilize all the muscle and all the sense we have4 ,if we were all farmers we would grow stupid4 ,if we all worked at one kind of mechanic art we would grow dull4 ,but with a variety of industries1 with a constant premium upon ingenuity1 with the promise of wealth as the reward of success in any direction1 the people become intelligent1 and while we are protecting our industries we develop our brains4 ,so ,i am in favor of the protection of civil rights by the ,federal ,government1 and that1 in my judgment1 will be one of the great issues in the next campaign4 ,question4 ,i see that you say that one of the great issues in the coming campaign will be civil rights2 what do you mean by that8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i mean this4 ,the ,supreme ,court has recently decided that a colored man whose rights are trampled upon1 in a ,state1 cannot appeal to the ,federal ,government for protection4 ,the decision amounts to this3 ,that ,congress has no right until a ,state has acted1 and has acted contrary to the ,constitution4 ,now1 if a ,state refuses to do anything upon the subject1 what is the citizen to do8 ,my opinion is that the ,government is bound to protect its citizens1 and as a consideration for this protection1 the citizen is bound to stand by the ,government4 ,when the nation calls for troops1 the citizen of each ,state is bound to respond1 no matter what his ,state may think4 ,this doctrine must be maintained1 or the ,united ,states ceases to be a nation4 ,if a man looks to his ,state for protection1 then he must go with his ,state4 ,my doctrine is1 that there should be patriotism upon the one hand1 and protection upon the other4 ,if a ,state endeavors to secede from the ,union1 a citizen of that ,state should be in a position to defy the ,state and appeal to the ,nation for protection4 ,the doctrine now is1 that the ,general ,government turns the citizen over to the ,state for protection1 and if the ,state does not protect him1 that is his misfortune2 and the consequence of this doctrine will be to build up the old heresy of ,state ,sovereignty--a doctrine that was never appealed to except in the interest of thieving or robbery4 ,that doctrine was first appealed to when the ,constitution was formed1 because they were afraid the ,national ,government would interfere with the slave trade4 ,it was next appealed to1 to uphold the ,fugitive ,slave ,law4 ,it was next appealed to1 to give the territories of the ,united ,states to slavery4 ,then it was appealed to1 to support rebellion1 and now out of this doctrine they attempt to build a breastwork1 behind which they can trample upon the rights of free colored men4 ,i believe in the sovereignty of the ,nation4 ,a nation that cannot protect its citizens ought to stop playing nation4 ,in the old times the ,supreme ,court found no difficulty in supporting slavery by inference1 by intendment1 but now that liberty has become national1 the ,court is driven to less than a literal interpretation4 ,if the ,constitution does not support liberty1 it is of no use4 ,to maintain liberty is the only legitimate object of human government4 ,i hope the time will come when the judges of the ,supreme ,court will be elected1 say for a period of ten years4 ,i do not believe in the legal monk system4 ,i believe in judges still maintaining an interest in human affairs4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,mormon question8 ,answer4 ,i do not believe in the bayonet plan4 ,mormonism must be done away with by the thousand influences of civilization1 by education1 by the elevation of the people4 ,of course1 a gentleman would rather have one noble woman than a hundred females4 ,i hate the system of polygamy4 ,nothing is more infamous4 ,i admit that the ,old ,testament upholds it4 ,i admit that the patriarchs were mostly polygamists4 ,i admit that ,solomon was mistaken on that subject4 ,but notwithstanding the fact that polygamy is upheld by the ,jewish ,scriptures1 ,i believe it to be a great wrong4 ,at the same time if you undertake to get the idea out of the ,mormons by force you will not succeed4 ,i think a good way to do away with that institution would be for all the churches to unite1 bear the expense1 and send missionaries to ,utah2 let these ministers call the people together and read to them the lives of ,david1 ,solomon1 ,abraham and other patriarchs4 ,let all the missionaries be called home from foreign fields and teach these people that they should not imitate the only men with whom ,god ever condescended to hold intercourse4 ,let these frightful examples be held up to these people1 and if it is done earnestly1 it seems to me that the result would be good4 ,polygamy exists4 ,all laws upon the subject should take that fact into consideration1 and punishment should be provided for offences thereafter committed4 ,the children of ,mormons should be legitimized4 ,in other words1 in attempting to settle this question1 we should accomplish all the good possible1 with the least possible harm4 ,i agree mostly with ,mr4 ,beecher1 and ,i utterly disagree with the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,newman4 ,mr4 ,newman wants to kill and slay4 ,he does not rely upon ,christianity1 but upon brute force4 ,he has lost his confidence in example1 and appeals to the bayonet4 ,mr4 ,newman had a discussion with one of the ,mormon elders1 and was put to ignominious flight2 no wonder that he appeals to force4 ,having failed in argument1 he calls for artillery2 having been worsted in the appeal to ,scripture1 he asks for the sword4 ,he says1 failing to convert1 let us kill2 and he takes this position in the name of the religion of kindness and forgiveness4 ,strange that a minister now should throw away the ,bible and yell for a bayonet2 that he should desert the ,scriptures and call for soldiers2 that he should lose confidence in the power of the ,spirit and trust in a sword4 ,i recommend that ,mormonism be done away with by distributing the ,old ,testament throughout ,utah4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the investigation of the ,department of ,justice now going on8 ,answer4 ,the result1 in my judgment1 will depend on its thoroughness4 ,if ,mr4 ,springer succeeds in proving exactly what the ,department of ,justice did1 the methods pursued1 if he finds out what their spies and detectives and agents were instructed to do1 then ,i think the result will be as disastrous to the ,department as beneficial to the country4 ,the people seem to have forgotten that a little while after the first ,star ,route trial three of the agents of the ,department of ,justice were indicted for endeavoring to bribe the jury4 ,they forget that ,mr4 ,bowen1 an agent of the ,department of ,justice1 is a fugitive1 because he endeavored to bribe the foreman of the jury4 ,they seem to forget that the ,department of ,justice1 in order to cover its own tracks1 had the foreman of the jury indicted because one of its agents endeavored to bribe him4 ,probably this investigation will nudge the ribs of the public enough to make people remember these things4 ,personally1 ,i have no feelings on the subject4 ,it was enough for me that we succeeded in thwarting its methods1 in spite of the detectives1 spies1 and informers4 ,the ,department is already beginning to dissolve4 ,brewster ,cameron has left it1 and as a reward has been exiled to ,arizona4 ,mr4 ,brewster will probably be the next to pack his official valise4 ,a few men endeavored to win popularity by pursuing a few others1 and thus far they have been conspicuous failures4 ,mac,veagh and ,james are to-day enjoying the oblivion earned by misdirected energy1 and ,mr4 ,brewster will soon keep them company4 ,the history of the world does not furnish an instance of more flagrant abuse of power4 ,there never was a trial as shamelessly conducted by a government4 ,but1 as ,i said before1 ,i have no feeling now except that of pity4 ,question4 ,i see that ,mr4 ,beecher is coming round to your views on theology8 ,answer4 ,i would not have the egotism to say that he was coming round to my views1 but evidently ,mr4 ,beecher has been growing4 ,his head has been instructed by his heart2 and if a man will allow even the poor plant of pity to grow in his heart he will hold in infinite execration all orthodox religion4 ,the moment he will allow himself to think that eternal consequences depend upon human life2 that the few short years we live in the world determine for an eternity the question of infinite joy or infinite pain2 the moment he thinks of that he will see that it is an infinite absurdity4 ,for instance1 a man is born in ,arkansas and lives there to be seventeen or eighteen years of age1 is it possible that he can be truthfully told at the day of judgment that he had a fair chance8 ,just imagine a man being held eternally responsible for his conduct in ,delaware6 ,mr4 ,beecher is a man of great genius--full of poetry and pathos4 ,every now and then he is driven back by the orthodox members of his congregation toward the old religion1 and for the benefit of those weak disciples he will preach what is called a doctrinal sermon2 but before he gets through with it1 seeing that it is infinitely cruel1 he utters a cry of horror1 and protests with all the strength of his nature against the cruelty of the creed4 ,i imagine that he has always thought that he was under great obligation to ,plymouth ,church1 but the truth is that the church depends upon him2 that church gets its character from ,mr4 ,beecher4 ,he has done a vast deal to ameliorate the condition of the average orthodox mind4 ,he excites the envy of the mediocre minister1 and he excites the hatred of the really orthodox1 but he receives the approbation of good and generous men everywhere4 ,for my part1 ,i have no quarrel with any religion that does not threaten eternal punishment to very good people1 and that does not promise eternal reward to very bad people4 ,if orthodox ,christianity is true1 some of the best people ,i know are going to hell1 and some of the meanest ,i have ever known are either in heaven or on the road4 ,of course1 ,i admit that there are thousands and millions of good ,christians--honest and noble people1 but in my judgment1 ,mr4 ,beecher is the greatest man in the world who now occupies a pulpit4 99 99 99 99 99 ,speaking of a man's living in ,delaware1 a young man1 some time ago1 came up to me on the street1 in an ,eastern city and asked for money4 ,what is your business1 ,i asked4 ,i am a waiter by profession4 ,where do you come from8 ,delaware4 ,well1 what was the matter --did you drink1 or cheat your employer1 or were you idle8 ,no4 ,what was the trouble8 ,well1 the truth is1 the ,state is so small they don't need any waiters2 they all reach for what they want4 ,question4 ,do you not think there are some dangerous tendencies in ,liberalism8 ,answer4 ,i will first state this proposition3 ,the credit system in morals1 as in business1 breeds extravagance4 ,the cash system in morals1 as well as in business1 breeds economy4 ,we will suppose a community in which everybody is bound to sell on credit1 and in which every creditor can take the benefit of the bankrupt law every ,saturday night1 and the constable pays the costs4 ,in my judgment that community would be extravagant as long as the merchants lasted4 ,we will take another community in which everybody has to pay cash1 and in my judgment that community will be a very economical one4 ,now1 then1 let us apply this to morals4 ,christianity allows everybody to sin on a credit1 and allows a man who has lived1 we will say sixty-nine years1 what ,christians are pleased to call a worldly life1 an immoral life4 ,they allow him on his death-bed1 between the last dose of medicine and the last breath1 to be converted1 and that man who has done nothing except evil1 becomes an angel4 ,here is another man who has lived the same length of time1 doing all the good he possibly could do1 but not meeting with what they are pleased to call a change of heart2 he goes to a world of pain4 ,now1 my doctrine is that everybody must reap exactly what he sows1 other things being equal4 ,if he acts badly he will not be very happy2 if he acts well he will not be very sad4 ,i believe in the doctrine of consequences1 and that every man must stand the consequences of his own acts4 ,it seems to me that that fact will have a greater restraining influence than the idea that you can1 just before you leave this world1 shift your burden on to somebody else4 ,i am a believer in the restraining influences of liberty1 because responsibility goes hand in hand with freedom4 ,i do not believe that the gallows is the last step between earth and heaven4 ,i do not believe in the conversion and salvation of murderers while their innocent victims are in hell4 ,the church has taught so long that he who acts virtuously carries a cross1 and that only sinners enjoy themselves1 that it may be that for a little while after men leave the church they may go to extremes until they demonstrate for themselves that the path of vice is the path of thorns1 and that only along the wayside of virtue grow the flowers of joy4 ,the church has depicted virtue as a sour1 wrinkled termagant2 an old woman with nothing but skin and bones1 and a temper beyond description2 and at the same time vice has been painted in all the voluptuous outlines of a ,greek statue4 ,the truth is exactly the other way4 ,a thing is right because it pays2 a thing is wrong because it does not2 and when ,i use the word pays1 ,i mean in the highest and noblest sense4 --,the ,daily ,news1 ,denver1 ,colorado1 ,january #ag1 #ahhd4 ,,free ,,trade ,,and ,,christianity4 ,question4 ,who will be the ,republican nominee for ,president8 ,answer4 ,the correct answer to this question would make so many men unhappy that ,i have concluded not to give it4 ,question4 ,has not the ,democracy injured itself irretrievably by permitting the free trade element to rule it8 ,answer4 ,i do not think that the ,democratic party weakened itself by electing ,carlisle1 ,speaker4 ,i think him an excellent man1 an exceedingly candid man1 and one who will do what he believes ought to be done4 ,i have a very high opinion of ,mr4 ,carlisle4 ,i do not suppose any party in this country is really for free trade4 ,i find that all writers upon the subject1 no matter which side they are on1 are on that side with certain exceptions4 ,adam ,smith was in favor of free trade1 with a few exceptions1 and those exceptions were in matters where he thought it was for ,england's interest not to have free trade4 ,the same may be said of all writers4 ,so far as ,i can see1 the free traders have all the arguments and the protectionists all the facts4 ,the free trade theories are splendid1 but they will not work2 the results are disastrous4 ,we find by actual experiment that it is better to protect home industries4 ,it was once said that protection created nothing but monopoly2 the argument was that way1 but the facts are not4 ,take1 for instance1 steel rails2 when we bought them of ,england we paid one hundred and twenty-five dollars a ton4 ,i believe there was a tariff of twenty-eight or twenty-nine dollars a ton1 and yet in spite of all the arguments going to show that protection would simply increase prices in ,america1 would simply enrich the capitalists and impoverish the consumer1 steel rails are now produced1 ,i believe1 right here in ,colorado for forty-two dollars a ton4 ,after all1 it is a question of labor2 a question of prices that shall be paid the laboring man2 a question of what the laboring man shall eat2 whether he shall eat meat or soup made from the bones4 ,very few people take into consideration the value of raw material and the value of labor4 ,take1 for instance1 your ton of steel rails worth forty-two dollars4 ,the iron in the earth is not worth twenty-five cents4 ,the coal in the earth and the lime in the ledge together are not worth twenty-five cents4 ,now1 then1 of the forty-two dollars1 forty-one and a half is labor4 ,there is not two dollars' worth of raw material in a locomotive worth fifteen thousand dollars4 ,by raw material ,i mean the material in the earth4 ,there is not in the works of a watch which will sell for fifteen dollars1 raw material of the value of one-half cent4 ,all the rest is labor4 ,a ship1 a man-of-war that costs one million dollars-- the raw material in the earth is not worth1 in my judgment1 one thousand dollars4 ,all the rest is labor4 ,if there is any way to protect ,american labor1 ,i am in favor of it4 ,if the present tariff does not do it1 then ,i am in favor of changing to one that will4 ,if the ,democratic party takes a stand for free trade or anything like it1 they will need protection2 they will need protection at the polls2 that is to say1 they will meet only with defeat and disaster4 ,question4 ,what should be done with the surplus revenue8 ,answer4 ,my answer to that is1 reduce internal revenue taxation until the present surplus is exhausted1 and then endeavor so to arrange your tariff that you will not produce more than you need4 ,i think the easiest question to grapple with on this earth is a surplus of money4 ,i do not believe in distributing it among the ,states4 ,i do not think there could be a better certificate of the prosperity of our country than the fact that we are troubled with a surplus revenue2 that we have the machinery for collecting taxes in such perfect order1 so ingeniously contrived1 that it cannot be stopped2 that it goes right on collecting money1 whether we want it or not2 and the wonderful thing about it is that nobody complains4 ,if nothing else can be done with the surplus revenue1 probably we had better pay some of our debts4 ,i would suggest1 as a last resort1 to pay a few honest claims4 ,question4 ,are you getting nearer to or farther away from ,god1 ,christianity and the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 as ,mr4 ,locke so often remarked1 we will define our terms4 ,if by the word ,god is meant a person1 a being1 who existed before the creation of the universe1 and who controls all that is1 except himself1 ,i do not believe in such a being2 but if by the word ,god is meant all that is1 that is to say1 the universe1 including every atom and every star1 then ,i am a believer4 ,i suppose the word that would nearest describe me is ,pantheist4 ,i cannot believe that a being existed from eternity1 and who finally created this universe after having wasted an eternity in idleness2 but upon this subject ,i know just as little as anybody ever did or ever will1 and1 in my judgment1 just as much4 ,my intellectual horizon is somewhat limited1 and1 to tell you the truth1 this is the only world that ,i was ever in4 ,i am what might be called a representative of a rural district1 and1 as a matter of fact1 ,i know very little about the district4 ,i believe it was ,confucius who said3 ,how should ,i know anything about another world when ,i know so little of this8 ,the greatest intellects of the world have endeavored to find words to express their conception of ,god1 of the first cause1 or of the science of being1 but they have never succeeded4 ,i find in the old ,confession of ,faith1 in the old ,catechism1 for instance1 this description3 ,that ,god is a being without body1 parts or passions4 ,i think it would trouble anybody to find a better definition of nothing4 ,that describes a vacuum1 that is to say1 that describes the absence of everything4 ,i find that theology is a subject that only the most ignorant are certain about1 and that the more a man thinks1 the less he knows4 ,from the ,bible ,god1 ,i do not know that ,i am going farther and farther away4 ,i have been about as far as a man could get for many years4 ,i do not believe in the ,god of the ,old ,testament4 ,now1 as to the next branch of your question1 ,christianity4 ,the question arises1 ,what is ,christianity8 ,i have no objection to the morality taught as a part of ,christianity1 no objection to its charity1 its forgiveness1 its kindness2 no objection to its hope for this world and another1 not the slightest1 but all these things do not make ,christianity4 ,mohammed taught certain doctrines that are good1 but the good in the teachings of ,mohammed is not ,mohammedism4 ,when ,i speak of ,christianity ,i speak of that which is distinctly ,christian4 ,for instance1 the idea that the ,infinite ,god was born in ,palestine1 learned the carpenter's trade1 disputed with the parsons of his time1 excited the wrath of the theological bigots1 and was finally crucified2 that afterward he was raised from the dead1 and that if anybody believes this he will be saved and if he fails to believe it1 he will be lost2 in other words1 that which is distinctly ,christian in the ,christian system1 is its supernaturalism1 its miracles1 its absurdity4 ,truth does not need to go into partnership with the supernatural4 ,what ,christ said is worth the reason it contains4 ,if a man raises the dead and then says twice two are five1 that changes no rule in mathematics4 ,if a multiplication table was divinely inspired1 that does no good4 ,the question is1 is it correct8 ,so ,i think that in the world of morals1 we must prove that a thing is right or wrong by experience1 by analogy1 not by miracles4 ,there is no fact in physical science that can be supernaturally demonstrated4 ,neither is there any fact in the moral world that could be substantiated by miracles4 ,now1 then1 keeping in mind that by ,christianity ,i mean the supernatural in that system1 of course ,i am just as far away from it as ,i can get4 ,for the man ,christ ,i have respect4 ,he was an infidel in his day1 and the ministers of his day cried out blasphemy1 as they have been crying ever since1 against every person who has suggested a new thought or shown the worthlessness of an old one4 ,now1 as to the third part of the question1 the ,bible4 ,people say that the ,bible is inspired4 ,well1 what does inspiration mean8 ,did ,god write it8 ,no2 but the men who did write it were guided by the ,holy ,spirit4 ,very well4 ,did they write exactly what the ,holy ,spirit wanted them to write8 ,well1 religious people say1 yes4 ,at the same time they admit that the gentlemen who were collecting1 or taking down in shorthand what was said1 had to use their own words4 ,now1 we all know that the same words do not have the same meaning to all people4 ,it is impossible to convey the same thoughts to all minds by the same language1 and it is for that reason that the ,bible has produced so many sects1 not only disagreeing with each other1 but disagreeing among themselves4 ,we find1 then1 that it is utterly impossible for ,god 7admitting that there is one7 to convey the same thoughts in human language to all people4 ,no two persons understand the same language alike4 ,a man's understanding depends upon his experience1 upon his capacity1 upon the particular bent of his mind--in fact1 upon the countless influences that have made him what he is4 ,everything in nature tells everyone who sees it a story1 but that story depends upon the capacity of the one to whom it is told4 ,the sea says one thing to the ordinary man1 and another thing to ,shakespeare4 ,the stars have not the same language for all people4 ,the consequence is that no book can tell the same story to any two persons4 ,the ,jewish ,scriptures are like other books1 written by different men in different ages of the world1 hundreds of years apart1 filled with contradictions4 ,they embody1 ,i presume1 fairly enough1 the wisdom and ignorance1 the reason and prejudice1 of the times in which they were written4 ,they are worth the good that is in them1 and the question is whether we will take the good and throw the bad away4 ,there are good laws and bad laws4 ,there are wise and foolish sayings4 ,there are gentle and cruel passages1 and you can find a text to suit almost any frame of mind2 whether you wish to do an act of charity or murder a neighbor's babe1 you will find a passage that will exactly fit the case4 ,so that ,i can say that ,i am still for the reasonable1 for the natural2 and am still opposed to the absurd and supernatural4 ,question4 ,is there any better or more ennobling belief than ,christianity2 if so1 what is it8 ,answer4 ,there are many good things1 of course1 in every religion1 or they would not have existed2 plenty of good precepts in ,christianity1 but the thing that ,i object to more than all others is the doctrine of eternal punishment1 the idea of hell for many and heaven for the few4 ,take from ,christianity the doctrine of eternal punishment and ,i have no particular objection to what is generally preached4 ,if you will take that away1 and all the supernatural connected with it1 ,i have no objection2 but that doctrine of eternal punishment tends to harden the human heart4 ,it has produced more misery than all the other doctrines in the world4 ,it has shed more blood2 it has made more martyrs4 ,it has lighted the fires of persecution and kept the sword of cruelty wet with heroic blood for at least a thousand years4 ,there is no crime that that doctrine has not produced4 ,i think it would be impossible for the imagination to conceive of a worse religion than orthodox ,christianity--utterly impossible2 a doctrine that divides this world1 a doctrine that divides families1 a doctrine that teaches the son that he can be happy1 with his mother in perdition2 the husband that he can be happy in heaven while his wife suffers the agonies of hell4 ,this doctrine is infinite injustice1 and tends to subvert all ideas of justice in the human heart4 ,i think it would be impossible to conceive of a doctrine better calculated to make wild beasts of men than that2 in fact1 that doctrine was born of all the wild beast there is in man4 ,it was born of infinite revenge4 ,think of preaching that you must believe that a certain being was the son of ,god1 no matter whether your reason is convinced or not4 ,suppose one should meet1 we will say on ,london ,bridge1 a man clad in rags1 and he should stop us and say1 ,my friend1 ,i wish to talk with you a moment4 ,i am the rightful ,king of ,great ,britain1 and you should say to him1 ,well1 my dinner is waiting2 ,i have no time to bother about who the ,king of ,england is1 and then he should meet another and insist on his stopping while the pulled out some papers to show that he was the rightful ,king of ,england1 and the other man should say1 ,i have got business here1 my friend2 ,i am selling goods1 and ,i have no time to bother my head about who the ,king of ,england is4 ,no doubt you are the ,king of ,england1 but you don't look like him4 ,and then suppose he stops another man1 and makes the same statement to him1 and the other man should laugh at him and say1 ,i don't want to hear anything on this subject2 you are crazy2 you ought to go to some insane asylum1 or put something on your head to keep you cool4 ,and suppose1 after all1 it should turn out that the man was ,king of ,england1 and should afterward make his claim good and be crowned in ,westminster4 ,what would we think of that ,king if he should hunt up the gentlemen that he met on ,london ,bridge1 and have their heads cut off because they had no faith that he was the rightful heir8 ,and what would we think of a ,god now who would damn a man eighteen hundred years after the event1 because he did not believe that he was ,god at the time he was living in ,jerusalem2 not only damn the fellows that he met and who did not believe him1 but gentlemen who lived eighteen hundred years afterward1 and who certainly could have known nothing of the facts except from hearsay8 ,the best religion1 after all1 is common sense2 a religion for this world1 one world at a time1 a religion for to-day4 ,we want a religion that will deal in questions in which we are interested4 ,how are we to do away with crime8 ,how are we to do away with pauperism8 ,how are we to do away with want and misery in every civilized country8 ,england is a ,christian nation1 and yet about one in six in the city of ,london dies in almshouses1 asylums1 prisons1 hospitals and jails4 ,we1 ,i suppose1 are a civilized nation1 and yet all the penitentiaries are crammed2 there is want on every hand1 and my opinion is that we had better turn our attention to this world4 ,christianity is charitable2 ,christianity spends a great deal of money2 but ,i am somewhat doubtful as to the good that is accomplished4 ,there ought to be some way to prevent crime2 not simply to punish it4 ,there ought to be some way to prevent pauperism1 not simply to relieve temporarily a pauper1 and if the ministers and good people belonging to the churches would spend their time investigating the affairs of this world and let the ,new ,jerusalem take care of itself1 ,i think it would be far better4 ,the church is guilty of one great contradiction4 ,the ministers are always talking about worldly people1 and yet1 were it not for worldly people1 who would pay the salary8 ,how could the church live a minute unless somebody attended to the affairs of this world8 ,the best religion1 in my judgment1 is common sense going along hand in hand with kindness1 and not troubling ourselves about another world until we get there4 ,i am willing for one1 to wait and see what kind of a country it will be4 ,question4 ,does the question of the inspiration of ,scriptures affect the beauty and benefits of ,christianity here and hereafter8 ,answer4 ,a belief in the inspiration of the ,scriptures has done1 in my judgment1 great harm4 ,the ,bible has been the breastwork for nearly everything wrong4 ,the defenders of slavery relied on the ,bible4 ,the ,bible was the real auction block on which every negro stood when he was sold4 ,i never knew a minister to preach in favor of slavery that did not take his text from the ,bible4 ,the ,bible teaches persecution for opinion's sake4 ,the ,bible--that is the ,old ,testament--upholds polygamy1 and just to the extent that men1 through the ,bible1 have believed that slavery1 religious persecution1 wars of extermination and polygamy were taught by ,god1 just to that extent the ,bible has done great harm4 ,the idea of inspiration enslaves the human mind and debauches the human heart4 ,question4 ,is not ,christianity and the belief in ,god a check upon mankind in general and thus a good thing in itself8 ,answer4 ,this1 again1 brings up the question of what you mean by ,christianity1 but taking it for granted that you mean by ,christianity the church1 then ,i answer1 when the church had almost absolute authority1 then the world was the worst4 ,now1 as to the other part of the question1 ,is not a belief in ,god a check upon mankind in general8 ,that is owing to what kind of ,god the man believes in4 ,when mankind believed in the ,god of the ,old ,testament1 ,i think that belief was a bad thing2 the tendency was bad4 ,i think that ,john ,calvin patterned after ,jehovah as nearly as his health and strength would permit4 ,man makes ,god in his own image1 and bad men are not apt to have a very good ,god if they make him4 ,i believe it is far better to have a real belief in goodness1 in kindness1 in honesty and in mankind than in any supernatural being whatever4 ,i do not suppose it would do any harm for a man to believe in a real good ,god1 a ,god without revenge1 a ,god that was not very particular in having a man believe a doctrine whether he could understand it or not4 ,i do not believe that a belief of that kind would do any particular harm4 ,there is a vast difference between the ,god of ,john ,calvin and the ,god of ,henry ,ward ,beecher1 and a great difference between the ,god of ,cardinal ,pedro ,gonzales de ,mendoza and the ,god of ,theodore ,parker4 ,question4 ,well1 ,colonel1 is the world growing better or worse8 ,answer4 ,i think better in some respects and worse in others2 but on the whole1 better4 ,i think that while events1 like the pendulum of a clock1 go backward and forward1 man1 like the hands1 goes forward4 ,i think there is more reason and less religion1 more charity and less creed4 ,i think the church is improving4 ,ministers are ashamed to preach the old doctrines with the old fervor4 ,there was a time when the pulpit controlled the pews4 ,it is so no longer4 ,the pews know what they want1 and if the minister does not furnish it they discharge him and employ another4 ,he is no longer an autocrat2 he must bring to the market what his customers are willing to buy4 ,question4 ,what are you going to do to be saved8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i think ,i am safe1 anyway4 ,i suppose ,i have a right to rely on what ,matthew says1 that if ,i will forgive others ,god will forgive me4 ,i suppose if there is another world ,i shall be treated very much as ,i treat others4 ,i never expect to find perfect bliss anywhere2 maybe ,i should tire of it if ,i should4 ,what ,i have endeavored to do has been to put out the fires of an ignorant and cruel hell2 to do what ,i could to destroy that dogma2 to destroy the doctrine that makes the cradle as terrible as the coffin4 --,the ,denver ,republican1 ,denver1 ,colorado1 ,january #ag1 #ahhd4 ,,the ,,oath ,,question4 ,question4 ,i suppose that your attention has been called to the excitement in ,england over the oath question1 and you have probably wondered that so much should have been made of so little8 ,answer4 ,yes2 ,i have read a few articles upon the subject1 including one by ,cardinal ,newman4 ,it is wonderful that so many people imagine that there is something miraculous in the oath4 ,they seem to regard it as a kind of verbal fetich1 a charm1 an open sesame to be pronounced at the door of truth1 a spell1 a kind of moral thumbscrew1 by means of which falsehood itself is compelled to turn informer4 ,the oath has outlived its brother1 the wager of battle4 ,both were born of the idea that ,god would interfere for the right and for the truth4 ,trial by fire and by water had the same origin4 ,it was once believed that the man in the wrong could not kill the man in the right2 but1 experience having shown that he usually did1 the belief gradually fell into disrepute4 ,so it was once thought that a perjurer could not swallow a piece of sacramental bread2 but1 the fear that made the swallowing difficult having passed away1 the appeal to the corsned was abolished4 ,it was found that a brazen or a desperate man could eat himself out of the greatest difficulty with perfect ease1 satisfying the law and his own hunger at the same time4 ,the oath is a relic of barbarous theology1 of the belief that a personal ,god interferes in the affairs of men2 that some ,god protects innocence and guards the right4 ,the experience of the world has sadly demonstrated the folly of that belief4 ,the testimony of a witness ought to be believed1 not because it is given under the solemnities of an oath1 but because it is reasonable4 ,if unreasonable it ought to be thrown aside4 ,the question ought not to be1 ,has this been sworn to8 but1 ,is this true8 ,the moment evidence is tested by the standard of reason1 the oath becomes a useless ceremony4 ,let the man who gives false evidence be punished as the lawmaking power may prescribe4 ,he should be punished because he commits a crime against society1 and he should be punished in this world4 ,all honest men will tell the truth if they can2 therefore1 oaths will have no effect upon them4 ,dishonest men will not tell the truth unless the truth happens to suit their purpose2 therefore1 oaths will have no effect upon them4 ,we punish them1 not for swearing to a lie1 but for telling it1 and we can make the punishment for telling the falsehood just as severe as we wish4 ,if they are to be punished in another world1 the probability is that the punishment there will be for having told the falsehood here4 ,after all1 a lie is made no worse by an oath1 and the truth is made no better4 ,question4 ,you object then to the oath4 ,is your objection based on any religious grounds1 or on any prejudice against the ceremony because of its religious origin2 or what is your objection8 ,answer4 ,i care nothing about the origin of the ceremony4 ,the objection to the oath is this3 ,it furnishes a falsehood with a letter of credit4 ,it supplies the wolf with sheep's clothing and covers the hands of ,jacob with hair4 ,it blows out the light1 and in the darkness ,leah is taken for ,rachel4 ,it puts upon each witness a kind of theological gown4 ,this gown hides the moral rags of the depraved wretch as well as the virtues of the honest man4 ,the oath is a mask that falsehood puts on1 and for a moment is mistaken for truth4 ,it gives to dishonesty the advantage of solemnity4 ,the tendency of the oath is to put all testimony on an equality4 ,the obscure rascal and the man of sterling character both swear1 and jurors who attribute a miraculous quality to the oath1 forget the real difference in the men1 and give about the same weight to the evidence of each1 because both were sworn4 ,a scoundrel is delighted with the opportunity of going through a ceremony that gives importance and dignity to his story1 that clothes him for the moment with respectability1 loans him the appearance of conscience1 and gives the ring of true coin to the base metal4 ,to him the oath is a shield4 ,he is in partnership1 for a moment1 with ,god1 and people who have no confidence in the witness credit the firm4 ,question4 ,of course you know the religionists insist that people are more likely to tell the truth when sworn1 and that to take away the oath is to destroy the foundation of testimony8 ,answer4 ,if the use of the oath is defended on the ground that religious people need a stimulus to tell the truth1 then ,i am compelled to say that religious people have been so badly educated that they mistake the nature of the crime4 ,they should be taught that to defeat justice by falsehood is the real offence4 ,besides1 fear is not the natural foundation of virtue4 ,even with religious people fear cannot always last4 ,ananias and ,sapphira have been dead so long1 and since their time so many people have sworn falsely without affecting their health that the fear of sudden divine vengeance no longer pales the cheek of the perjurer4 ,if the vengeance is not sudden1 then1 according to the church1 the criminal will have plenty of time to repent2 so that the oath no longer affects even the fearful4 ,would it not be better for the church to teach that telling the falsehood is the real crime1 and that taking the oath neither adds to nor takes from its enormity8 ,would it not be better to teach that he who does wrong must suffer the consequences1 whether ,god forgives him or not8 ,he who tries to injure another may or may not succeed1 but he cannot by any possibility fail to injure himself4 ,men should be taught that there is no difference between truth-telling and truth-swearing4 ,nothing is more vicious than the idea that any ceremony or form of words--hand-lifting or book-kissing--can add1 even in the slightest degree1 to the perpetual obligation every human being is under to speak the truth4 ,the truth1 plainly told1 naturally commends itself to the intelligent4 ,every fact is a genuine link in the infinite chain1 and will agree perfectly with every other fact4 ,a fact asks to be inspected1 asks to be understood4 ,it needs no oath1 no ceremony1 no supernatural aid4 ,it is independent of all the gods4 ,a falsehood goes in partnership with theology1 and depends on the partner for success4 ,to show how little influence for good has been attributed to the oath1 it is only necessary to say that for centuries1 in the ,christian world1 no person was allowed to testify who had the slightest pecuniary interest in the result of a suit4 ,the expectation of a farthing in this world was supposed to outweigh the fear of ,god's wrath in the next4 ,all the pangs1 pains1 and penalties of perdition were considered as nothing when compared with pounds1 shillings and pence in this world4 ,question4 ,you know that in nearly all deliberative bodies--in parliaments and congresses--an oath or an affirmation is required to support what is called the ,constitution2 and that all officers are required to swear or affirm that they will discharge their duties2 do these oaths and affirmations1 in your judgment1 do any good8 ,answer4 ,men have sought to make nations and institutions immortal by oaths4 ,subjects have sworn to obey kings1 and kings have sworn to protect subjects1 and yet the subjects have sometimes beheaded a king2 and the king has often plundered the subjects4 ,the oaths enabled them to deceive each other4 ,every absurdity in religion1 and all tyrannical institutions1 have been patched1 buttressed1 and reinforced by oaths2 and yet the history of the world shows the utter futility of putting in the coffin of an oath the political and religious aspirations of the race4 ,revolutions and reformations care little for ,so help me ,god4 ,oaths have riveted shackles and sanctified abuses4 ,people swear to support a constitution1 and they will keep the oath as long as the constitution supports them4 ,in #aggf the colonists cared nothing for the fact that they had sworn to support the ,british crown4 ,all the oaths to defend the ,constitution of the ,united ,states did not prevent the ,civil ,war4 ,we have at last learned that ,states may be kept together for a little time1 by force2 permanently only by mutual interests4 ,we have found that the ,delilah of superstition cannot bind with oaths the secular ,samson4 ,why should a member of ,parliament or of ,congress swear to maintain the ,constitution8 ,if he is a dishonest man1 the oath will have no effect2 if he is an honest patriot1 it will have no effect4 ,in both cases it is equally useless4 ,if a member fails to support the ,constitution the probability is that his constituents will treat him as he does the ,constitution4 ,in this country1 after all the members of ,congress have sworn or affirmed to defend the ,constitution1 each political party charges the other with a deliberate endeavor to destroy that sacred instrument4 ,possibly the political oath was invented to prevent the free and natural development of a nation4 ,kings and nobles and priests wished to retain the property they had filched and clutched1 and for that purpose they compelled the real owners to swear that they would support and defend the law under color of which the theft and robbery had been accomplished4 ,so1 in the church1 creeds have been protected by oaths4 ,priests and laymen solemnly swore that they would1 under no circumstances1 resort to reason2 that they would overcome facts by faith1 and strike down demonstrations with the sword of the spirit4 ,professors of the theological seminary at ,andover1 ,massachusetts1 swear to defend certain dogmas and to attack others4 ,they swear sacredly to keep and guard the ignorance they have4 ,with them1 philosophy leads to perjury1 and reason is the road to crime4 ,while theological professors are not likely to make an intellectual discovery1 still it is unwise1 by taking an oath1 to render that certain which is only improbable4 ,if all witnesses sworn to tell the truth1 did so1 if all members of ,parliament and of ,congress1 in taking the oath1 became intelligent1 patriotic1 and honest1 ,i should be in favor of retaining the ceremony2 but we find that men who have taken the same oath advocate opposite ideas1 and entertain different opinions1 as to the meaning of constitutions and laws4 ,the oath adds nothing to their intelligence2 does not even tend to increase their patriotism1 and certainly does not make the dishonest honest4 ,question4 ,are not persons allowed to testify in the ,united ,states whether they believe in future rewards and punishments or not8 ,answer4 ,in this country1 in most of the ,states1 witnesses are allowed to testify whether they believe in perdition and paradise or not4 ,in some ,states they are allowed to testify even if they deny the existence of ,god4 ,we have found that religious belief does not compel people to tell the truth1 and than an utter denial of every ,christian creed does not even tend to make them dishonest4 ,you see1 a religious belief does not affect the senses4 ,justice should not shut any door that leads to truth4 ,no one will pretend that1 because you do not believe in hell1 your sight is impaired1 or your hearing dulled1 or your memory rendered less retentive4 ,a witness in a court is called upon to tell what he has seen1 what he has heard1 what he remembers1 not what he believes about gods and devils and hells and heavens4 ,a witness substantiates not a faith1 but a fact4 ,in order to ascertain whether a witness will tell the truth1 you might with equal propriety examine him as to his ideas about music1 painting or architecture1 as theology4 ,a man may have no ear for music1 and yet remember what he hears4 ,he may care nothing about painting1 and yet is able to tell what he sees4 ,so he may deny every creed1 and yet be able to tell the facts as he remembers them4 ,thomas ,jefferson was wise enough so to frame the ,constitution of ,virginia that no person could be deprived of any civil right on account of his religious or irreligious belief4 ,through the influence of men like ,paine1 ,franklin and ,jefferson1 it was provided in the ,federal ,constitution that officers elected under its authority could swear or affirm4 ,this was the natural result of the separation of church and state4 ,question4 ,i see that your ,presidents and ,governors issue their proclamations calling on the people to assemble in their churches and offer thanks to ,god4 ,how does this happen in a ,government where church and state are not united8 ,answer4 ,jefferson1 when ,president1 refused to issue what is known as the ,thanksgiving ,proclamation1 on the ground that the ,federal ,government had no right to interfere in religious matters2 that the people owed no religious duties to the ,government2 that the ,government derived its powers1 not from priests or gods1 but from the people1 and was responsible alone to the source of its power4 ,the truth is1 the framers of our ,constitution intended that the ,government should be secular in the broadest and best sense2 and yet there are thousands and thousands of religious people in this country who are greatly scandalized because there is no recognition of ,god in the ,federal ,constitution2 and for several years a great many ministers have been endeavoring to have the ,constitution amended so as to recognize the existence of ,god and the divinity of ,christ4 ,a man by the name of ,pollock was once superintendent of the mint of ,philadelphia4 ,he was almost insane about having ,god in the ,constitution4 ,failing in that1 he got the inscription on our money1 ,in ,god we ,trust4 ,as our silver dollar is now1 in fact1 worth only eighty-five cents1 it is claimed that the inscription means that we trust in ,god for the other fifteen cents4 ,there is a constant effort on the part of many ,christians to have their religion in some way recognized by law4 ,proclamations are now issued calling upon the people to give thanks1 and directing attention to the fact that1 while ,god has scourged or neglected other nations1 he has been remarkably attentive to the wants and wishes of the ,united ,states4 ,governors of ,states issue these documents written in a tone of pious insincerity4 ,the year may or may not have been prosperous1 yet the degree of thankfulness called for is always precisely the same4 ,a few years ago the ,governor of ,iowa issued an exceedingly rhetorical proclamation1 in which the people were requested to thank ,god for the unparalleled blessings he had showered upon them4 ,a private citizen1 fearing that the ,lord might be misled by official correspondence1 issued his proclamation1 in which he recounted with great particularity the hardships of the preceding year4 ,he insisted that the weather had been of the poorest quality2 that the spring came late1 and the frost early2 that the people were in debt2 that the farms were mortgaged2 that the merchants were bankrupt2 and that everything was in the worst possible condition4 ,he concluded by sincerely hoping that the ,lord would pay no attention to the proclamation of the ,governor1 but would1 if he had any doubt on the subject1 come down and examine the ,state for himself4 ,these proclamations have always appeared to me absurdly egotistical4 ,why should ,god treat us any better than he does the rest of his children8 ,why should he send pestilence and famine to ,china1 and health and plenty to us8 ,why give us corn1 and ,egypt cholera8 ,all these proclamations grow out of egotism and selfishness1 of ignorance and superstition1 and are based upon the idea that ,god is a capricious monster2 that he loves flattery2 that he can be coaxed and cajoled4 ,the conclusion of the whole matter with me is this3 ,for truth in courts we must depend upon the trained intelligence of judges1 the right of cross-examination1 the honesty and common sense of jurors1 and upon an enlightened public opinion4 ,as for members of ,congress1 we will trust to the wisdom and patriotism1 not only of the members1 but of their constituents4 ,in religion we will give to all the luxury of absolute liberty4 ,the alchemist did not succeed in finding any stone the touch of which transmuted baser things to gold2 and priests have not invented yet an oath with power to force from falsehood's desperate lips the pearl of truth4 --,secular ,review1 ,london1 ,england1 #ahhd4 ,,wendell ,,phillips1 ,,fitz ,,john ,,porter ,,and ,,bismarck4 ,question4 ,are you seeking to quit public lecturing on religious questions8 ,answer4 ,as long as ,i live ,i expect now and then to say my say against the religious bigotry and cruelty of the world4 ,as long as the smallest coal is red in hell ,i am going to keep on4 ,i never had the slightest idea of retiring4 ,i expect the church to do the retiring4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,wendell ,phillips as an orator8 ,answer4 ,he was a very great orator--one of the greatest that the world has produced4 ,he rendered immense service in the cause of freedom4 ,he was in the old days the thunderbolt that pierced the shield of the ,constitution4 ,one of the bravest soldiers that ever fought for human rights was ,wendell ,phillips4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the action of ,congress on ,fitz ,john ,porter8 ,answer4 ,i think ,congress did right4 ,i think they should have taken this action long before4 ,there was a question of his guilt1 and he should have been given the benefit of a doubt4 ,they say he could have defeated ,longstreet4 ,there are some people1 you know1 who would have it that an army could be whipped by a good general with six mules and a blunderbuss4 ,but we do not regard those people4 ,they know no more about it than a lady who talked to me about ,porter's case4 ,she argued the question of ,porter's guilt for half an hour4 ,i showed her where she was all wrong4 ,when she found she was beaten she took refuge with ,oh1 well1 anyhow he had no genius4 ,well1 if every man is to be shot who has no genius1 ,i want to go into the coffin business4 ,question4 ,what1 in your judgment1 is necessary to be done to insure ,republican success this fall8 ,answer4 ,it is only necessary for the ,republican party to stand by its principles4 ,we must be in favor of protecting ,american labor not only1 but of protecting ,american capital1 and we must be in favor of civil rights1 and must advocate the doctrine that the ,federal ,government must protect all citizens4 ,i am in favor of a tariff1 not simply to raise a revenue--that ,i regard as incidental4 ,the ,democrats regard protection as incidental4 ,the two principles should be1 protection to ,american industry and protection to ,american citizens4 ,so that1 after all1 there is but one issue--protection4 ,as a matter of fact1 that is all a government is for--to protect4 ,the ,republican party is stronger to-day than it was four years ago4 ,the ,republican party stands for the progressive ideas of the ,american people4 ,it has been said that the administration will control the ,southern delegates4 ,i do not believe it4 ,this administration has not been friendly to the ,southern ,republicans1 and my opinion is there will be as much division in the ,southern as in the ,northern ,states4 ,i believe ,blaine will be a candidate1 and ,i do not believe the ,prohibitionists will put a ticket in the field1 because they have no hope of success4 ,question4 ,what do you think generally of the revival of the bloody shirt8 ,do you think the investigations of the ,republicans of the ,danville and ,copiah massacres will benefit them8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i am in favor of the revival of that question just as often as a citizen of the ,republic is murdered on account of his politics4 ,if the ,south is sick of that question1 let it stop persecuting men because they are ,republicans4 ,i do not believe1 however1 in simply investigating the question and then stopping after the guilty ones are found4 ,i believe in indicting them1 trying them1 and convicting them4 ,if the ,government can do nothing except investigate1 we might as well stop1 and admit that we have no government4 ,thousands of people think that it is almost vulgar to take the part of the poor colored people in the ,south4 ,what part should you take if not that of the weak8 ,the strong do not need you4 ,and ,i can tell the ,southern people now1 that as long as they persecute for opinion's sake they will never touch the reins of political power in this country4 ,question4 ,how do you regard the action of ,bismarck in returning the ,lasker resolutions8 ,was it the result of his hatred of the ,jews8 ,answer4 ,bismarck opposed a bill to do away with the disabilities of the ,jews on the ground that ,prussia is a ,christian nation1 founded for the purpose of spreading the gospel of ,jesus ,christ4 ,i presume that it was his hatred of the ,jews that caused him to return the resolutions4 ,bismarck should have lived several centuries ago4 ,he belongs to the ,dark ,ages4 ,he is a believer in the sword and the bayonet--in brute force4 ,he was loved by ,germany simply because he humiliated ,france4 ,germany gave her liberty for revenge4 ,it is only necessary to compare ,bismarck with ,gambetta to see what a failure he really is4 ,germany was victorious and took from ,france the earnings of centuries2 and yet ,germany is to-day the least prosperous nation in ,europe4 ,france was prostrate1 trampled into the earth1 robbed1 and yet1 guided by ,gambetta1 is to-day the most prosperous nation in ,europe4 ,this shows the difference between brute force and brain4 --,the ,times1 ,chicago1 ,illinois1 ,february #ba1 #ahhd4 ,,general ,,subjects4 ,question4 ,do you enjoy lecturing8 ,answer4 ,of course ,i enjoy lecturing4 ,it is a great pleasure to drive the fiend of fear out of the hearts of men women and children4 ,it is a positive joy to put out the fires of hell4 ,question4 ,where do you meet with the bitterest opposition8 ,answer4 ,i meet with the bitterest opposition where the people are the most ignorant1 where there is the least thought1 where there are the fewest books4 ,the old theology is becoming laughable4 ,very few ministers have the impudence to preach in the old way4 ,they give new meanings to old words4 ,they subscribe to the same creed1 but preach exactly the other way4 ,the clergy are ashamed to admit that they are orthodox1 and they ought to be4 ,question4 ,do liberal books1 such as the works of ,paine and ,infidel scientists sell well8 ,answer4 ,yes1 they are about the only books on serious subjects that do sell well4 ,the works of ,darwin1 ,buckle1 ,draper1 ,haeckel1 ,tyndall1 ,humboldt and hundreds of others1 are read by intelligent people the world over4 ,works of a religious character die on the shelves4 ,the people want facts4 ,they want to know about the world1 about all forms of life4 ,they want the mysteries of every day solved4 ,they want honest thoughts about sensible questions4 ,they are tired of the follies of faith and the falsehoods of superstition4 ,they want a heaven here4 ,in a few years the old theological books will be sold to make paper on which to print the discoveries of science4 ,question4 ,in what section of the country do you find the most liberality8 ,answer4 ,i find great freedom of thought in ,boston1 ,new ,york1 ,chicago1 ,san ,francisco1 in fact1 all over what we call the ,north4 ,the ,west of course is liberal4 ,the truth is that all the intelligent part of the country is liberal4 ,the railroad1 the telegraph1 the daily paper1 electric light1 the telephone1 and freedom of thought belong together4 ,question4 ,is it true that you were once threatened with a criminal prosecution for libel on religion8 ,answer4 ,yes1 in ,delaware4 ,chief ,justice ,comegys instructed the grand jury to indict me for blasphemy4 ,i have taken by revenge on the ,state by leaving it in ignorance4 ,delaware is several centuries behind the times4 ,it is as bigoted as it is small4 ,compare ,kansas ,city with ,wilmington and you will see the difference between liberalism and orthodoxy4 ,question4 ,this is ,washington's birthday4 ,what do you think of ,general ,washington8 ,answer4 ,i suppose that ,washington was what was called religious4 ,he was not very strict in his conduct4 ,he tried to have church and state united in ,virginia and was defeated by ,jefferson4 ,it should make no difference with us whether ,washington was religious or not4 ,jefferson was by far the greater man4 ,in intellect there was no comparison between ,washington and ,franklin4 ,i do not prove the correctness of my ideas by names of dead people4 ,i depend upon reason instead of gravestones4 ,one fact is worth a cemetery full of distinguished corpses4 ,we ask not for the belief of somebody1 but for evidence1 for facts4 ,the church is a beggar at the door of respectability4 ,the moment a man becomes famous1 the church asks him for a certificate that the ,bible is true4 ,it passes its hat before generals and presidents1 and kings while they are alive4 ,it says nothing about thinkers and real philosophers while they live1 except to slander them1 but the moment they are dead it seeks among their words for a crumb of comfort4 ,question4 ,will ,liberalism ever organize in ,america8 ,answer4 ,i hope not4 ,organization means creed1 and creed means petrifaction and tyranny4 ,i believe in individuality4 ,i will not join any society except an anti-society society4 ,question4 ,do you consider the religion of ,bhagavat ,purana of the ,east as good as the ,christian8 ,answer4 ,it is far more poetic4 ,it has greater variety and shows vastly more thought4 ,like the ,hebrew1 it is poisoned with superstition1 but it has more beauty4 ,nothing can be more barren than the theology of the ,jews and ,christians4 ,one lonely ,god1 a heaven filled with thoughtless angels1 a hell with unfortunate souls4 ,nothing can be more desolate4 ,the ,greek mythology is infinitely better4 ,question4 ,do you think that the marriage institution is held in less respect by ,infidels than by ,christians8 ,answer4 ,no2 there was never a time when marriage was more believed in than now4 ,never were wives treated better and loved more2 never were children happier than now4 ,it is the ambition of the average ,american to have a good and happy home4 ,the fireside was never more popular than now4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,beecher8 ,answer4 ,he is a great man1 but the habit of his mind and the bent of his early education oppose his heart4 ,he is growing and has been growing every day for many years4 ,he has given up the idea of eternal punishment1 and that of necessity destroys it all4 ,the ,christian religion is founded upon hell4 ,when the foundation crumbles the fabric falls4 ,beecher was to have answered my article in the ,north ,american ,review1 but when it appeared and he saw it1 he agreed with so much of it that he concluded that an answer would be useless4 --,the ,times1 ,kansas ,city1 ,missouri1 ,february #bc1 #ahhd4 ,,reply ,,to ,,kansas ,,city ,,clergy4 ,question4 ,will you take any notice of ,mr4 ,magrath's challenge8 ,answer4 ,i do not think it worth while to discuss with ,mr4 ,magrath4 ,i do not say this in disparagement of his ability1 as ,i do not know the gentleman4 ,he may be one of the greatest of men4 ,i think1 however1 that ,mr4 ,magrath might better answer what ,i have already said4 ,if he succeeds in that1 then ,i will meet him in public discussion4 ,of course he is an eminent theologian or he would not think of discussing these questions with anybody4 ,i have never heard of him1 but for all that he may be the most intelligent of men4 ,question4 ,how have the recently expressed opinions of our local clergy impressed you8 ,answer4 ,i suppose you refer to the preachers who have given their opinion of me4 ,in the first place ,i am obliged to them for acting as my agents4 ,i think ,mr4 ,hogan has been imposed upon4 ,tacitus is a poor witness--about like ,josephus4 ,i say again that we have not a word about ,christ written by any human being who lived in the time of ,christ--not a solitary word1 and ,mr4 ,hogan ought to know it4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,matthews is mistaken4 ,if the ,bible proves anything1 it proves that the world was made in six days and that ,adam and ,eve were built on ,saturday4 ,the ,bible gives the age of ,adam when he died1 and then gives the ages of others down to the flood1 and then from that time at least to the return from the captivity4 ,if the genealogy of the ,bible is true it is about six thousand years since ,adam was made1 and the world is only five days older than ,adam4 ,it is nonsense to say that the days were long periods of time4 ,if that is so1 away goes the idea of ,sunday4 ,the only reason for keeping ,sunday given in the ,bible is that ,god made the world in six days and rested on the seventh4 ,mr4 ,mathews is not candid4 ,he knows that he cannot answer the arguments ,i have urged against the ,bible4 ,he knows that the ancient ,jews were barbarians1 and that the ,old ,testament is a barbarous book4 ,he knows that it upholds slavery and polygamy1 and he probably feels ashamed of what he is compelled to preach4 ,mr4 ,jardine takes a very cheerful view of the subject4 ,he expects the light to dawn on the unbelievers4 ,he speaks as though he were the superior of all ,infidels4 ,he claims to be a student of the evidences of ,christianity4 ,there are no evidences1 consequently ,mr4 ,jardine is a student of nothing4 ,it is amazing how dignified some people can get on a small capital4 ,mr4 ,haley has sense enough to tell the ministers not to attempt to answer me4 ,that is good advice4 ,the ministers had better keep still4 ,it is the safer way4 ,if they try to answer what ,i say1 the sheep will see how foolish the shepherds are4 ,the best way is for them to say1 that has been answered4 ,mr4 ,wells agrees with ,mr4 ,haley4 ,he1 too1 thinks that silence is the best weapon4 ,i agree with him4 ,let the clergy keep still2 that is the best way4 ,it is better to say nothing than to talk absurdity4 ,i am delighted to think that at last the ministers have concluded that they had better not answer ,infidels4 ,mr4 ,woods is fearful only for the young4 ,he is afraid that ,i will hurt the children4 ,he thinks that the mother ought to stoop over the cradle and in the ears of the babe shout1 ,hell6 ,so he thinks in all probability that the same word ought to be repeated at the grave as a consolation to mourners4 ,i am glad that ,mr4 ,mann thinks that ,i am doing neither good nor harm4 ,this gives me great hope4 ,if ,i do no harm1 certainly ,i ought not to be eternally damned4 ,it is very consoling to have an orthodox minister solemnly assert that ,i am doing no harm4 ,i wish ,i could say as much for him4 ,the truth is1 all these ministers have kept back their real thoughts4 ,they do not tell their doubts--they know that orthodoxy is doomed --they know that the old doctrine excites laughter and scorn4 ,they know that the fires of hell are dying out2 that the ,bible is ceasing to be an authority2 and that the pulpit is growing feebler and feebler every day4 ,poor parsons6 ,question4 ,would the ,catholicism of ,general ,sherman's family affect his chances for the presidency8 ,answer4 ,i do not think the religion of the family should have any weight one way or the other4 ,it would make no difference with me2 although ,i hate ,catholicism with all my heart1 ,i do not hate ,catholics4 ,some people might be so prejudiced that they would not vote for a man whose wife belongs to the ,catholic ,church2 but such people are too narrow to be consulted4 ,general ,sherman says that he wants no office4 ,in that he shows his good sense4 ,he is a great man and a great soldier4 ,he has won laurels enough for one brow4 ,he has the respect and admiration of the nation1 and does not need the presidency to finish his career4 ,he wishes to enjoy the honors he has won and the rest he deserves4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,matthew ,arnold8 ,answer4 ,he is a man of talent1 well educated1 a little fussy1 somewhat sentimental1 but he is not a genius4 ,he is not creative4 ,he is a critic--not an originator4 ,he will not compare with ,emerson4 --,the ,journal1 ,kansas ,city1 ,missouri1 ,february #bc1 #ahhd4 ,,swearing ,,and ,,affirming4 ,question4 ,what is the difference in the parliamentary oath of this country which saves us from such a squabble as they have had in ,england over the ,bradlaugh case8 ,answer4 ,our ,constitution provides that a member of ,congress may swear or affirm4 ,the consequence is that we can have no such controversy as they have had in ,england4 ,the framers of our ,constitution wished forever to divorce church and state4 ,they knew that it made no possible difference whether a man swore or affirmed1 or whether he swore and affirmed to support the ,constitution4 ,all the ,federal officers who went into the ,rebellion had sworn or affirmed to support the ,constitution4 ,all that did no good4 ,the entire oath business is a mistake4 ,i think it would be a thousand times better to abolish all oaths in courts of justice4 ,the oath allows a rascal to put on the garments of solemnity1 the mask of piety1 while he tells a lie4 ,in other words1 the oath allows the villain to give falsehood the appearance of truth4 ,i think it would be far better to let each witness tell his story and leave his evidence to the intelligence of the jury and judge4 ,the trouble about an oath is that its tendency is to put all witnesses on an equality2 the jury says1 ,why1 he swore to it4 ,now1 if the oath were abolished1 the jury would judge all testimony according to the witness1 and then the evidence of one man of good reputation would outweigh the lies of thousands of nobodies4 ,it was at one time believed that there was something miraculous in the oath1 that it was a kind of thumbscrew that would torture the truth out of a rascal1 and at one time they believed that if a man swore falsely he might be struck by lightning or paralyzed4 ,but so many people have sworn to lies without having their health impaired that the old superstition has very little weight with the average witness4 ,i think it would be far better to let every man tell his story2 let him be cross-examined1 let the jury find out as much as they can of his character1 of his standing among his neighbors--then weigh his testimony in the scale of reason4 ,the oath is born of superstition1 and everything born of superstition is bad4 ,the oath gives the lie currency2 it gives it for the moment the ring of true metal1 and the ordinary average juror is imposed upon and justice in many instances defeated4 ,nothing can be more absurd than the swearing of a man to support the ,constitution4 ,let him do what he likes4 ,if he does not support the ,constitution1 the probability is that his constituents will refuse to support him4 ,every man who swears to support the ,constitution swears to support it as he understands it1 and no two understand it exactly alike4 ,now1 if the oath brightened a man's intellect or added to his information or increased his patriotism or gave him a little more honesty1 it would be a good thing--but it doesn't4 ,and as a consequence it is a very useless and absurd proceeding4 ,nothing amuses me more in a court than to see one calf kissing the tanned skin of another4 --,the ,courier1 ,buffalo1 ,new ,york1 ,may #ai1 #ahhd4 ,,reply ,,to ,a ,,buffalo ,,critic4 ,question4 ,what have you to say in reply to the letter in to- day's ,times signed ,r4 ,h4 ,s48 ,answer4 ,i find that ,i am accused of four flagrant wrongs1 and while ,i am not as yet suffering from the qualms of conscience1 nor do ,i feel called upon to confess and be forgiven1 yet ,i have something to say in self-defence4 ,as to the first objection made by your correspondent1 namely1 that my doctrine deprives people of the hope that after this life is ended they will meet their fathers1 mothers1 sisters and brothers1 long since passed away1 in the land beyond the grave1 and there enjoy their company forever1 ,i have this to say3 ,if ,christianity is true we are not quite certain of meeting our relatives and friends where we can enjoy their company forever4 ,if ,christianity is true most of our friends will be in hell4 ,the ones ,i love best and whose memory ,i cherish will certainly be among the lost4 ,the trouble about ,christianity is that it is infinitely selfish4 ,each man thinks that if he can save his own little1 shriveled1 microscopic soul1 that is enough4 ,no matter what becomes of the rest4 ,christianity has no consolation for a generous man4 ,i do not wish to go to heaven if the ones who have given me joy are to be lost4 ,i would much rather go with them4 ,the only thing that makes life endurable in this world is human love1 and yet1 according to ,christianity1 that is the very thing we are not to have in the other world4 ,we are to be so taken up with ,jesus and the angels1 that we shall care nothing about our brothers and sisters that have been damned4 ,we shall be so carried away with the music of the harp that we shall not even hear the wail of father or mother4 ,such a religion is a disgrace to human nature4 ,as to the second objection1--that society cannot be held together in peace and good order without hell and a belief in eternal torment1 ,i would ask why an infinitely wise and good ,god should make people of so poor and mean a character that society cannot be held together without scaring them4 ,is it possible that ,god has so made the world that the threat of eternal punishment is necessary for the preservation of society8 ,the writer of the letter also says that it is necessary to believe that if a man commits murder here he is destined to be punished in hell for the offence4 ,this is ,christianity4 ,yet nearly every murderer goes directly from the gallows to ,god4 ,nearly every murderer takes it upon himself to lecture the assembled multitude who have gathered to see him hanged1 and invite them to meet him in heaven4 ,when the rope is about his neck he feels the wings growing4 ,that is the trouble with the ,christian doctrine4 ,every murderer is told he may repent and go to heaven1 and have the happiness of seeing his victim in hell4 ,should heaven at any time become dull1 the vein of pleasure can be re-thrilled by the sight of his victim wriggling on the gridiron of ,god's justice4 ,really1 ,christianity leads men to sin on credit4 ,it sells rascality on time and tells all the devils they can have the benefit of the gospel bankrupt act4 ,the next point in the letter is that ,i do not preach for the benefit of mankind1 but for the money which is the price of blood4 ,of course it makes no difference whether ,i preach for money or not4 ,that is to say1 it makes no difference to the preached4 ,the arguments ,i advance are either good or bad4 ,if they are bad they can easily be answered by argument4 ,if they are not they cannot be answered by personalities or by ascribing to me selfish motives4 ,it is not a personal matter4 ,it is a matter of logic1 of sense-- not a matter of slander1 vituperation or hatred4 ,the writer of the letter1 ,r4 ,h4 ,s41 may be an exceedingly good person1 yet that will add no weight to his or her argument4 ,he or she may be a very bad person1 but that would not weaken the logic of the letter1 if it had any logic to begin with4 ,it is not for me to say what my motives are in what ,i do or say2 it must be left to the judgment of mankind4 ,i presume ,i am about as bad as most folks1 and as good as some1 but my goodness or badness has nothing to do with the question4 ,i may have committed every crime in the world1 yet that does not make the story of the flood reasonable1 nor does it even tend to show that the three gentlemen in the furnace were not scorched4 ,i may be the best man in the world1 yet that does not go to prove that ,jonah was swallowed by the whale4 ,let me say right here that if there is another world ,i believe that every soul who finds the way to that shore will have an everlasting opportunity to do right--of reforming4 ,my objection to ,christianity is that it is infinitely cruel1 infinitely selfish1 and ,i might add infinitely absurd4 ,i deprive no one of any hope unless you call the expectation of eternal pain a hope4 ,question4 ,have you read the ,rev4 ,father ,lambert's ,notes on ,ingersoll1 and if so1 what have you to say of them or in reply to them8 ,answer4 ,i have read a few pages or paragraphs of that pamphlet1 and do not feel called upon to say anything4 ,mr4 ,lambert has the same right to publish his ideas that ,i have1 and the readers must judge4 ,people who believe his way will probably think that he has succeeded in answering me4 ,after all1 he must leave the public to decide4 ,i have no anxiety about the decision4 ,day by day the people are advancing1 and in a little while the sacred superstitions of to-day will be cast aside with the foolish myths and fables of the pagan world4 ,as a matter of fact there can be no argument in favor of the supernatural4 ,suppose you should ask if ,i had read the work of that gentleman who says that twice two are five4 ,i should answer you that no gentleman can prove that twice two are five2 and yet this is exactly as easy as to prove the existence of the supernatural4 ,there are no arguments in favor of the supernatural4 ,there are theories and fears and mistakes and prejudices and guesses1 but no arguments--plenty of faith1 but no facts2 plenty of divine revelation1 but no demonstration4 ,the supernatural1 in my judgment1 is a mistake4 ,i believe in the natural4 --,the ,times1 ,buffalo1 ,new ,york1 ,may #ai1 #ahhd4 ,,blasphemy499 99 ,if ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll indulges in blasphemy to-night in his lecture1 as he has in other places and in this city before1 he will be arrested before he leaves the city4 ,so spoke ,rev4 ,irwin ,h4 ,torrence1 ,general ,secretary of the ,pennsylvania ,bible ,society1 yesterday afternoon to a ,press reporter4 ,we have consulted counsel2 the law is with us1 and ,ingersoll has but to do what he has done before1 to find himself in a cell4 ,here is the act of ,march #ca1 #ahfj3 ',if any person shall willfully1 premeditatedly and despitefully blaspheme or speak loosely and profanely of ,almighty ,god1 ,christ ,jesus1 the ,holy ,spirit1 or the ,scriptures of ,truth1 such person1 on conviction thereof1 shall be sentenced to pay a fine not exceeding one hundred dollars1 and undergo an imprisonment not exceeding three months1 or either1 at the discretion of the court4' ,last evening ,colonel ,ingersoll sat in the dining room at ,guy's ,hotel1 just in from ,new ,york ,city4 ,when told of the plans of ,mr4 ,torrence and his friends1 he laughed and said3 ,i did not suppose that anybody was idiotic enough to want me arrested for blasphemy4 ,it seems to me that an infinite ,being can take care of himself without the aid of any agent of a ,bible society4 ,perhaps it is wrong for me to be here while the ,methodist ,conference is in session4 ,of course no one who differs from the ,methodist ministers should ever visit ,philadelphia while they are here4 ,i most humbly hope to be forgiven4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the law of #ahfj8 ,answer4 ,it is exceedingly foolish4 ,surely1 there is no need for the ,legislature of ,pennsylvania to protect an infinite ,god1 and why should the ,bible be protected by law8 ,the most ignorant priest can hold ,darwin up to orthodox scorn4 ,this talk of the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,torrence shows that my lectures are needed2 that religious people do not know what real liberty is4 ,i presume that the law of #ahfj is an old one re-enacted4 ,it is a survival of ancient ignorance and bigotry1 and no one in the ,legislature thought it worth while to fight it4 ,it is the same as the law against swearing1 both are dead letters and amount to nothing4 ,they are not enforced and should not be4 ,public opinion will regulate such matters4 ,if all who take the name of ,god in vain were imprisoned there would not be room in the jails to hold the ministers4 ,they speak of ,god in the most flippant and snap-your-fingers way that can be conceived of4 ,they speak to him as though he were an intimate chum1 and metaphorically slap him on the back in the most familiar way possible4 ,question4 ,have you ever had any similar experiences before8 ,answer4 ,oh1 yes--threats have been made1 but ,i never was arrested4 ,when ,mr4 ,torrence gets cool he will see that he has made a mistake4 ,people in ,philadelphia have been in the habit of calling the citizens of ,boston bigots--but there is more real freedom of thought and expression in ,boston than in almost any other city of the world4 ,i think that as ,i am to suffer in hell forever1 ,mr4 ,torrence ought to be satisfied and let me have a good time here4 ,he can amuse himself through all eternity by seeing me in hell1 and that ought to be enough to satisfy1 not only an agent1 but the whole ,bible society4 ,i never expected any trouble in this ,state1 and most sincerely hope that ,mr4 ,torrence will not trouble me and make the city a laughing stock4 ,philadelphia has no time to waste in such foolish things4 ,let the ,bible take its chances with other books4 ,let everybody feel that he has the right freely to express his opinions1 provided he is decent and kind about it4 ,certainly the ,christians now ought to treat ,infidels as well as ,penn did ,indians4 ,nothing could be more perfectly idiotic than in this day and generation to prosecute any man for giving his conclusions upon any religious subject4 ,mr4 ,torrence would have had ,huxley and ,haeckel and ,tyndall arrested2 would have had ,humboldt and ,john ,stuart ,mill and ,harriet ,martineau and ,george ,eliot locked up in the city jail4 ,mr4 ,torrence is a fossil from the old red sandstone of a mistake4 ,let him rest4 ,to hear these people talk you would suppose that ,god is some petty king1 some ,liliputian prince1 who was about to be dethroned1 and who was nearly wild for recruits4 ,question4 ,but what would you do if they should make an attempt to arrest you8 ,answer4 ,nothing1 except to defend myself in court4 --,philadelphia ,press1 ,may #bd1 #ahhd4 ,,politics ,,and ,,british ,,columbia4 ,question4 ,i understand that there was some trouble in connection with your lecture in ,victoria1 ,b4 ,c4 ,what are the facts8 ,answer4 ,the published accounts1 as circulated by the ,associated ,press1 were greatly exaggerated4 ,the affair was simply this3 ,the authorities endeavored to prevent the lecture4 ,they refused the license1 on the ground that the theatre was unsafe1 although it was on the ground floor1 had many exits and entrances1 not counting the windows4 ,the theatre was changed to meet the objections of the fire commissioner1 and the authorities expressed their satisfaction and issued the license4 ,afterward further objection was raised1 and on the night of the lecture1 when the building was about two- thirds full1 the police appeared and said that the lecture would not be allowed to be delivered1 because the house was unsafe4 ,after a good deal of talk1 the policeman in authority said that there should be another door1 whereupon my friends1 in a few minutes1 made another door with an ax and a saw1 the crowd was admitted and the lecture was delivered4 ,the audience was well-behaved1 intelligent and appreciative4 ,beyond some talking in the hall1 and the natural indignation of those who had purchased tickets and were refused admittance1 there was no disturbance4 ,i understand that those who opposed the lecture are now heartily ashamed of the course pursued4 ,question4 ,are you going to take any part in the campaign8 ,answer4 ,it is not my intention to make any political speeches4 ,i have made a good many in the past1 and1 in my judgment1 have done my part4 ,i have no other interest in politics than every citizen should have4 ,i want that party to triumph which1 in my judgment1 represents the best interests of the country4 ,i have no doubt about the issue of the election4 ,i believe that ,mr4 ,blaine will be the next ,president4 ,but there are plenty of talkers1 and ,i really think that ,i have earned a vacation4 ,question4 ,what do you think ,cleveland's chances are in ,new ,york8 ,answer4 ,at this distance it is hard to say4 ,the recent action of ,tammany complicates matters somewhat4 ,but my opinion is that ,blaine will carry the ,state4 ,i had a letter yesterday from that ,state1 giving the opinion of a gentleman well informed1 that ,blaine would carry ,new ,york by no less than fifty thousand majority4 ,question4 ,what figure will ,butler cut in the campaign8 ,answer4 ,i hardly think that ,butler will have many followers on the #dth of ,november4 ,his forces will gradually go to one side or the other4 ,it is only when some great principle is at stake that thousands of men are willing to vote with a known minority4 ,question4 ,but what about the ,prohibitionists8 ,answer4 ,they have a very large following4 ,they are fighting for something they believe to be of almost infinite consequence1 and ,i can readily understand how a ,prohibitionist is willing to be in the minority4 ,it may be well enough for me to say here1 that my course politically is not determined by my likes or dislikes of individuals4 ,i want to be governed by principles1 not persons4 ,if ,i really thought that in this campaign a real principle was at stake1 ,i should take part4 ,the only great question now is protection1 and ,i am satisfied that it is in no possible danger4 ,question4 ,not even in the case of a ,democratic victory8 ,answer4 ,not even in the event of a ,democratic victory4 ,no ,state in the ,union is for free trade4 ,every free trader has an exception4 ,these exceptions combined1 control the tariff legislation of this country1 and if the ,democrats were in power to-day1 with the control of the ,house and ,senate and ,executive1 the exceptions would combine and protect protection4 ,as long as the ,federal ,government collects taxes or revenue on imports1 just so long these revenues will be arranged to protect home manufactures4 ,question4 ,you said that if there were a great principle at stake1 you would take part in the campaign4 ,you think1 then1 that there is no great principle involved8 ,answer4 ,if it were a matter of personal liberty1 ,i should take part4 ,if the ,republican party had stood by the ,civil ,rights ,bill1 ,i should have taken part in the present campaign4 ,question4 ,still1 ,i suppose we can count on you as a ,republican8 ,answer4 ,certainly1 ,i am a ,republican4 --,evening ,post1 ,san ,francisco1 ,california1 ,september #af1 #ahhd4 ,,ingersoll ,,catechised4 ,question4 ,does ,christianity advance or retard civilization8 ,answer4 ,if by ,christianity you mean the orthodox church1 then ,i unhesitatingly answer that it does retard civilization1 always has retarded it1 and always will4 ,i can imagine no man who can be benefitted by being made a ,catholic or a ,presbyterian or a ,baptist or a ,methodist--or1 in other words1 by being made an orthodox ,christian4 ,but by ,christianity ,i do not mean morality1 kindness1 forgiveness1 justice4 ,those virtues are not distinctively ,christian4 ,they are claimed by ,mohammedans and ,buddhists1 by ,infidels and ,atheists--and practiced by some of all classes4 ,christianity consists of the miraculous1 the marvelous1 and the impossible4 ,the one thing that ,i most seriously object to in ,christianity is the doctrine of eternal punishment4 ,that doctrine subverts every idea of justice4 ,it teaches the infinite absurdity that a finite offence can be justly visited by eternal punishment4 ,another serious objection ,i have is1 that ,christianity endeavors to destroy intellectual liberty4 ,nothing is better calculated to retard civilization than to subvert the idea of justice4 ,nothing is better calculated to retain barbarism than to deny to every human being the right to think4 ,justice and ,liberty are the two wings that bear man forward4 ,the church1 for a thousand years1 did all within its power to prevent the expression of honest thought2 and when the church had power1 there was in this world no civilization4 ,we have advanced just in the proportion that ,christianity has lost power4 ,those nations in which the church is still powerful are still almost savage--,portugal1 ,spain1 and many others ,i might name4 ,probably no country is more completely under the control of the religious idea than ,russia4 ,the ,czar is the direct representative of ,god4 ,he is the head of the church1 as well as of the state4 ,in ,russia every mouth is a bastille and every tongue a convict4 ,this ,russian pope1 this representative of ,god1 has on earth his hell 7,siberia71 and he imitates the orthodox ,god to the extent of his health and strength4 ,everywhere man advances as the church loses power4 ,in my judgment1 ,ireland can never succeed until it ceases to be ,catholic2 and there can be no successful uprising while the confessional exists4 ,at one time in ,new ,england the church had complete power4 ,there was then no religious liberty4 ,and so we might make a tour of the world1 and find that superstition always has been1 is1 and forever will be1 inconsistent with human advancement4 ,question4 ,do not the evidences of design in the universe prove a ,creator8 ,answer4 ,if there were any evidences of design in the universe1 certainly they would tend to prove a designer1 but they would not prove a ,creator4 ,design does not prove creation4 ,a man makes a machine4 ,that does not prove that he made the material out of which the machine is constructed4 ,you find the planets arranged in accordance with what you call a plan4 ,that does not prove that they were created4 ,it may prove that they are governed1 but it certainly does not prove that they were created4 ,is it consistent to say that a design cannot exist without a designer1 but that a designer can8 ,does not a designer need a design as much as a design needs a designer8 ,does not a ,creator need a ,creator as much as the thing we think has been created8 ,in other words1 is not this simply a circle of human ignorance8 ,why not say that the universe has existed from eternity1 as well as to say that a ,creator has existed from eternity8 ,and do you not thus avoid at least one absurdity by saying that the universe has existed from eternity1 instead of saying that it was created by a ,creator who existed from eternity8 ,because if your ,creator existed from eternity1 and created the universe1 there was a time when he commenced2 and back of that1 according to ,shelley1 is an eternity of idleness4 ,some people say that ,god existed from eternity1 and has created eternity4 ,it is impossible to conceive of an act co-equal with eternity4 ,if you say that ,god has existed forever1 and has always acted1 then you make the universe eternal1 and you make the universe as old as ,god2 and if the universe be as old as ,god1 he certainly did not create it4 ,these questions of origin and destiny--of infinite gods--are beyond the powers of the human mind4 ,they cannot be solved4 ,we might as well try to travel fast enough to get beyond the horizon4 ,it is like a man trying to run away from his girdle4 ,consequently1 ,i believe in turning our attention to things of importance--to questions that may by some possibility be solved4 ,it is of no importance to me whether ,god exists or not4 ,i exist1 and it is important to me to be happy while ,i exist4 ,therefore ,i had better turn my attention to finding out the secret of happiness1 instead of trying to ascertain the secret of the universe4 ,i say with regard to ,god1 ,i do not know2 and therefore ,i am accused of being arrogant and egotistic4 ,religious papers say that ,i do know1 because ,webster told me4 ,they use ,webster as a witness to prove the divinity of ,christ4 ,they say that ,webster was on the ,god side1 and therefore ,i ought to be4 ,i can hardly afford to take ,webster's ideas of another world1 when his ideas about this were so bad4 ,when bloodhounds were pursuing a woman through the tangled swamps of the ,south--she hungry for liberty--,webster took the side of the bloodhounds4 ,such a man is no authority for me4 ,bacon denied the ,copernican system of astronomy2 he is an unsafe guide4 ,wesley believed in witches2 ,i cannot follow him4 ,no man should quote a name instead of an argument2 no man should bring forward a person instead of a principle1 unless he is willing to accept all the ideas of that person4 ,question4 ,is not a pleasant illusion preferable to a dreary truth--a future life being in question8 ,answer4 ,i think it is4 ,i think that a pleasing illusion is better then a terrible truth1 so far as its immediate results are concerned4 ,i would rather think the one ,i love living1 than to think her dead4 ,i would rather think that ,i had a large balance in bank than that my account was overdrawn4 ,i would rather think ,i was healthy than to know that ,i had a cancer4 ,but if we have an illusion1 let us have it pleasing4 ,the orthodox illusion is the worst that can possibly be conceived4 ,take hell out of that illusion1 take eternal pain away from that dream1 and say that the whole world is to be happy forever--then you might have an excuse for calling it a pleasant illusion2 but it is1 in fact1 a nightmare --a perpetual horror--a cross1 on which the happiness of man has been crucified4 ,question4 ,are not religion and morals inseparable8 ,answer4 ,religion and morality have nothing in common1 and yet there is no religion except the practice of morality4 ,but what you call religion is simply superstition4 ,religion as it is now taught teaches our duties toward ,god--our obligations to the ,infinite1 and the results of a failure to discharge those obligations4 ,i believe that we are under no obligations to the ,infinite2 that we cannot be4 ,all our obligations are to each other1 and to sentient beings4 ,believe in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ1 and thou shalt be saved1 has nothing to do with morality4 ,do unto other as ye would that others should do unto you has nothing to do with believing in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ4 ,baptism has nothing to do with morality4 ,pay your honest debts4 ,that has nothing to do with baptism4 ,what is called religion is simple superstition1 with which morality has nothing to do4 ,the churches do not prevent people from committing natural offences1 but restrain them from committing artificial ones4 ,as for instance1 the ,catholic ,church can prevent one of its members from eating meat on ,friday1 but not from whipping his wife4 ,the ,episcopal ,church can prevent dancing1 it may be1 in ,lent1 but not slander4 ,the ,presbyterian can keep a man from working on ,sunday1 but not from practicing deceit on ,monday4 ,and so ,i might go through the churches4 ,they lay the greater stress upon the artificial offences4 ,those countries that are the most religious are the most immoral4 ,when the world was under the control of the ,catholic ,church1 it reached the very pit of immorality1 and nations have advanced in morals just in proportion that they have lost ,christianity4 ,question4 ,it is frequently asserted that there is nothing new in your objections against ,christianity4 ,what is your reply to such assertions8 ,answer4 ,of course1 the editors of religious papers will say this2 ,christians will say this4 ,in my opinion1 an argument is new until it has been answered4 ,an argument is absolutely fresh1 and has upon its leaves the dew of morning1 until it has been refuted4 ,all men have experienced1 it may be1 in some degree1 what we call love4 ,millions of men have written about it4 ,the subject is of course old4 ,it is only the presentation that can be new4 ,thousands of men have attacked superstition4 ,the subject is old1 but the manner in which the facts are handled1 the arguments grouped--these may be forever new4 ,millions of men have preached ,christianity4 ,certainly there is nothing new in the original ideas4 ,nothing can be new except the presentation1 the grouping4 ,the ideas may be old1 but they may be clothed in new garments of passion2 they may be given additional human interest4 ,a man takes a fact1 or an old subject1 as a sculptor takes a rock2 the rock is not new4 ,of this rock he makes a statue2 the statue is new4 ,and yet some orthodox man might say there is nothing new about that statue3 ,i know the man that dug the rock2 ,i know the owner of the quarry4 ,substance is eternal2 forms are new4 ,so in the human mind certain ideas1 or in the human heart certain passions1 are forever old2 but genius forever gives them new forms1 new meanings2 and this is the perpetual originality of genius4 ,question4 ,do you consider that churches are injurious to the community8 ,answer4 ,in the exact proportion that churches teach falsehood2 in the exact proportion that they destroy liberty of thought1 the free action of the human mind2 in the exact proportion that they teach the doctrine of eternal pain1 and convince people of its truth--they are injurious4 ,in the proportion that they teach morality and justice1 and practice kindness and charity--in that proportion they are a benefit4 ,every church1 therefore1 is a mixed problem--part good and part bad4 ,in one direction it leads toward and sheds light2 in the other direction its influence is entirely bad4 ,now1 ,i would like to civilize the churches1 so that they will be able to do good deeds without building bad creeds4 ,in other words1 take out the superstitious and the miraculous1 and leave the human and the moral4 ,question4 ,why do you not respond to the occasional clergyman who replies to your lectures8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 no clergyman has ever replied to my lectures4 ,in the second place1 no clergyman ever will reply to my lectures4 ,he does not answer my arguments--he attacks me2 and the replies that ,i have seen are not worth answering4 ,they are far below the dignity of the question under discussion4 ,most of them are ill-mannered1 as abusive as illogical1 and as malicious as weak4 ,i cannot reply without feeling humiliated4 ,i cannot use their weapons1 and my weapons they do not understand4 ,i attack ,christianity because it is cruel1 and they account for all my actions by putting behind them base motives4 ,they make it at once a personal question4 ,they imagine that epithets are good enough arguments with which to answer an ,infidel4 ,a few years ago they would have imprisoned me4 ,a few years before that they would have burned me4 ,we have advanced4 ,now they only slander2 and ,i congratulate myself on the fact that even that is not believed4 ,ministers do not believe each other about each other4 ,the truth has never yet been ascertained in any trial by a church4 ,the longer the trial lasts1 the obscurer is the truth4 ,they will not believe each other1 even on oath2 and one of the most celebrated ministers of this country has publicly announced that there is no use in answering a lie started by his own church2 that if he does answer it--if he does kill it--forty more lies will come to the funeral4 ,in this connection we must remember that the priests of one religion never credit the miracles of another religion4 ,is this because priests instinctively know priests8 ,now1 when a ,christian tells a ,buddhist some of the miracles of the ,testament1 the ,buddhist smiles4 ,when a ,buddhist tells a ,christian the miracles performed by ,buddha1 the ,christian laughs4 ,this reminds me of an incident4 ,a man told a most wonderful story4 ,everybody present expressed surprise and astonishment1 except one man4 ,he said nothing2 he did not even change countenance4 ,one who noticed that the story had no effect on this man1 said to him3 ,you do not seem to be astonished in the least at this marvelous tale4 ,the man replied1 ,no2 ,i am a liar myself4 ,you see1 ,i am not trying to answer individual ministers4 ,i am attacking the whole body of superstition4 ,i am trying to kill the entire dog1 and ,i do not feel like wasting any time killing fleas on that dog4 ,when the dog dies1 the fleas will be out of provisions1 and in that way we shall answer them all at once4 ,so1 ,i do not bother myself answering religious newspapers4 ,in the first place1 they are not worth answering2 and in the second place1 to answer would only produce a new crop of falsehoods4 ,you know1 the editor of a religious newspaper1 as a rule1 is one who has failed in the pulpit2 and you can imagine the brains necessary to edit a religious weekly from this fact4 ,i have known some good religious editors4 ,by some ,i mean one4 ,i do not say that there are not others1 but ,i do say ,i do not know them4 ,i might add1 here1 that the one ,i did know is dead4 ,since ,i have been in this city there have been some replies to me4 ,they have been almost idiotic4 ,a ,catholic priest asked me how ,i had the impudence to differ with ,newton4 ,newton1 he says1 believed in a ,god2 and ,i ask this ,catholic priest how he has the impudence to differ with ,newton4 ,newton was a ,protestant4 ,this simply shows the absurdity of using men's names for arguments4 ,this same priest proves the existence of ,god by a pagan orator4 ,is it possible that ,god's last witness died with ,cicero8 ,if it is necessary to believe in a ,god now1 the witnesses ought to be on hand now4 ,another man1 pretending to answer me1 quotes ,le ,conte1 a geologist2 and according to this geologist we are getting very near to the splendors of the great white throne4 ,where is the great white throne8 ,can any one1 by studying geology1 find the locality of the great white throne8 ,to what stratum does it belong8 ,in what geologic period was the great white throne formed8 ,what on earth has geology to do with the throne of ,god8 ,the truth is1 there can be no reply to the argument that man should be governed by his reason2 that he should depend upon observation and experience2 that he should use the faculties he has for his own benefit1 and the benefit of his fellow-man4 ,there is no answer4 ,it is not within the power of man to substantiate the supernatural4 ,it is beyond the power of evidence4 ,question4 ,why do the theological seminaries find it difficult to get students8 ,answer4 ,i was told last spring1 at ,new ,haven1 that the theologs1 as they call the young men there being fitted for the ministry1 were not regarded as intellectual by all the other students4 ,the orthodox pulpit has no rewards for genius4 ,it has rewards only for stupidity1 for belief--not for investigation1 not for thought2 and the consequence is that young men of talent avoid the pulpit4 ,i think ,i heard the other day that of all the students at ,harvard only nine are preparing for the ministry4 ,the truth is1 the ministry is not regarded as an intellectual occupation4 ,the average church now consists of women and children4 ,men go to please their wives1 or stay at home and subscribe to please their wives2 and the wives are beginning to think1 and many of them are staying at home4 ,many of them now prefer the theatre or the opera or the park or the seashore or the forest or the companionship of their husbands and children at home4 ,question4 ,how does the religious state of ,california compare with the rest of the ,union8 ,answer4 ,i find that sensible people everywhere are about the same1 and the proportion of ,freethinkers depends on the proportion of sensible folks4 ,i think that ,california has her full share of sensible people4 ,i find everywhere the best people and the brightest people--the people with the most heart and the best brain--all tending toward free thought4 ,of course1 a man of brain cannot believe the miracles of the ,old and ,new ,testaments4 ,a man of heart cannot believe in the doctrine of eternal pain4 ,we have found that other religions are like ours1 with precisely the same basis1 the same idiotic miracles1 the same ,christ or ,saviour4 ,it will hardly do to say that all others like ours are false1 and ours the only true one1 when others substantially like it are thousands of years older4 ,we have at last found that a religion is simply an effort on the part of man to account for what he sees1 what he experiences1 what he feels1 what he fears1 and what he hopes4 ,every savage has his philosophy4 ,that is his religion and his science4 ,the religions of to-day are the sciences of the past2 and it may be that the sciences of to-day will be the religions of the future1 and that other sciences will be as far beyond them as the science of to-day is beyond the religion of to-day4 ,as a rule1 religion is a sanctified mistake1 and heresy a slandered fact4 ,in other words1 the human mind grows--and as it grows it abandons the old1 and the old gets its revenge by maligning the new4 --,the ,san ,franciscan1 ,san ,francisco1 ,october #d1 #ahhd4 ,,blaine',s ,,defeat4 ,question4 ,colonel1 the fact that you took no part in the late campaign1 is a subject for general comment1 and knowing your former enthusiastic advocacy and support of ,blaine1 the people are somewhat surprised1 and would like to know why8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 it was generally supposed that ,blaine needed no help4 ,his friends were perfectly confident4 ,they counted on a very large ,catholic support4 ,the ,irish were supposed to be spoiling to vote for ,blaine and ,logan4 ,all the ,protestant ministers were also said to be solid for the ticket4 ,under these circumstances it was hardly prudent for me to say much4 ,i was for ,blaine in #ahgf4 ,in #ahhj ,i was for ,garfield1 and in #ahhd ,i was for ,gresham or ,harlan4 ,i believed then and ,i believe now that either one of these men could have been elected4 ,blaine is an exceedingly able man1 but he made some mistakes and some very unfortunate utterances4 ,i took no part in the campaign2 first1 because there was no very important issue1 no great principle at stake1 and second1 ,i thought that ,i had done enough1 and1 third1 because ,i wanted to do something else4 ,question4 ,what1 in your opinion1 were the causes for ,blaine's defeat8 ,answer4 ,first1 because of dissension in the party4 ,second1 because party ties have grown weak4 ,third1 the ,prohibition vote4 ,fourth1 the ,delmonico dinner--too many rich men4 ,fifth1 the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,burchard with his ,rum1 ,romanism and ,rebellion4 ,sixth1 giving too much attention to ,ohio and not enough to ,new ,york4 ,seventh1 the unfortunate remark of ,mr4 ,blaine1 that the ,state cannot get along without the ,church4 ,eighth1 the weakness of the present administration4 ,ninth1 the abandonment by the party of the colored people of the ,south4 ,tenth1 the feeling against monopolies1 and not least1 a general desire for a change4 ,question4 ,what1 in your opinion1 will be the result of ,cleveland's election and administration upon the general political and business interests of the country8 ,answer4 ,the business interests will take care of themselves4 ,a dollar has the instinct of self-preservation largely developed4 ,the tariff will take care of itself4 ,no ,state is absolutely for free trade4 ,in each ,state there is an exception4 ,the exceptions will combine1 as they always have4 ,michigan will help ,pennsylvania take care of iron1 if ,pennsylvania will help ,michigan take care of salt and lumber4 ,louisiana will help ,pennsylvania and ,michigan if they help her take care of sugar4 ,colorado1 ,california and ,ohio will help the other ,states if they will help them about wool--and so ,i might make a tour of the ,states1 ending with ,vermont and maple sugar4 ,i do not expect that ,cleveland will do any great harm4 ,the ,democrats want to stay in power1 and that desire will give security for good behavior4 ,question4 ,will he listen to or grant any demands made of him by the alleged ,independent ,republicans of ,new ,york1 either in his appointments or policies8 ,answer4 ,of this ,i know nothing4 ,the ,independents--from what ,i know of them--will be too modest to claim credit or to ask office4 ,they were actuated by pure principle4 ,they did what they did to purify the party1 so that they could stay in it4 ,now that it has been purified they will remain1 and hate the ,democratic party as badly as ever4 ,i hardly think that ,cleveland would insult their motives by offering loaves and fishes4 ,all they desire is the approval of their own consciences4 --,the ,commonwealth1 ,topeka1 ,kansas1 ,november #ba1 #ahhd4 ,,blaine',s ,,defeat4 ,question4 ,how do you account for the defeat of ,mr4 ,blaine8 ,answer4 ,how do ,i account for the defeat of ,mr4 ,blaine8 ,i will answer3 ,st4 ,john1 the ,independents1 ,burchard1 ,butler and ,cleveland did it4 ,the truth is that during the war a majority of the people1 counting those in the ,south1 were opposed to putting down the ,rebellion by force4 ,it is also true that when the ,proclamation of ,emancipation was issued a majority of the people1 counting the whole country1 were opposed to it1 and it is also true that when the colored people were made citizens a majority of the people1 counting the whole country1 were opposed to it4 ,now1 while1 in my judgment1 an overwhelming majority of the whole people have honestly acquiesced in the result of the war1 and are now perfectly loyal to the ,union1 and have also acquiesced in the abolition of slavery1 ,i doubt very much whether they are really in favor of giving the colored man the right to vote4 ,of course they have not the power now to take that right away1 but they feel anything but kindly toward the party that gave the colored man that right4 ,that is the only result of the war that is not fully accepted by the ,south and by many ,democrats of the ,north4 ,another thing1 the ,republican party was divided--divided too by personal hatreds4 ,the party was greatly injured by the decision of the ,supreme ,court in which the ,civil ,rights ,bill was held void4 ,now1 a great many men who kept with the ,republican party1 did so because they believed that that party would protect the colored man in the ,south1 but as soon as the ,court decided that all the laws passed were unconstitutional1 these men felt free to vote for the other side1 feeling that it would make no difference4 ,they reasoned this way3 ,if the ,republican party cannot defend the colored people1 why make a pretence that excites hatred on one side and disarms the other8 ,if the colored people have to depend upon the ,state for protection1 and the ,federal ,government cannot interfere1 why say any more about it8 ,i think that these men made a mistake and our party made a mistake in accepting without protest a decision that was far worse than the one delivered in the case of ,dred ,scott4 ,by accepting this decision the most important issue was abandoned4 ,the ,republican party must take the old ground that it is the duty of the ,federal ,government to protect the citizens1 and that it cannot simply leave that duty to the ,state4 ,it must see to it that the ,state performs that duty4 ,question4 ,have you seen the published report that ,dorsey claims to have paid you one hundred thousand dollars for your services in the ,star ,route ,cases8 ,answer4 ,i have seen the report1 but ,dorsey never said anything like that4 ,question4 ,is there no truth in the statement1 then8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,dorsey never said anything of the kind4 ,question4 ,then you do not deny that you received such an enormous fee8 ,answer4 ,all ,i say is that ,dorsey did not say ,i did499 --,the ,commercial1 ,louisville1 ,kentucky1 ,october #bd1 #ahhd4 99 ,col4 ,ingersoll has been so criticised and maligned for defending ,mr4 ,dorsey in the ,star ,route cases1 and so frequently charged with having received an enormous fee1 that ,i think it but simple justice to his memory to say that he received no such fee1 and that the ridiculously small sums he did receive were much more than offset by the amount he had to pay as indorser of ,mr4 ,dorsey's paper4 --,c4 ,f4 ,,farrell4 ,,plagiarism ,,and ,,politics4 ,question4 ,what have you to say about the charges published in this morning's ,herald to the effect that you copied your lecture about ,mistakes of ,moses from a chapter bearing the same title in a book called ,hittell's ,evidences against ,christianity8 ,answer4 ,all ,i have to say is that the charge is utterly false4 ,i will give a thousand dollars reward to any one who will furnish a book published before my lecture1 in which that lecture can be found4 ,it is wonderful how malicious the people are who love their enemies4 ,this charge is wholly false1 as all others of like nature are4 ,i do not have to copy the writings of others4 ,the ,christians do not seem to see that they are constantly complimenting me by saying that what ,i write is so good that ,i must have stolen it4 ,poor old orthodoxy6 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the incoming administration1 and how will it affect the country8 ,answer4 ,i feel disposed to give ,cleveland a chance4 ,if he does the fair thing1 then it is the duty of all good citizens to say so4 ,i do not expect to see the whole country go to destruction because the ,democratic party is in power4 ,neither do ,i believe that business is going to suffer on that account4 ,the times are hard1 and ,i fear will be much harder1 but they would have been substantially the same if ,blaine had been elected4 ,i wanted the ,republican party to succeed and fully expected to see ,mr4 ,blaine ,president1 but ,i believe in making the best of what has happened4 ,i want no office1 ,i want good government--wise legislation4 ,i believe in protection1 but ,i want the present tariff reformed and ,i hope the ,democrats will be wise enough to do so4 ,question4 ,how will the ,democratic victory affect the colored people in the ,south8 ,answer4 ,certainly their condition will not be worse than it has been4 ,the ,supreme ,court decided that the ,civil ,rights ,bill was unconstitutional and that the ,federal ,government cannot interfere4 ,that was a bad decision and our party made a mistake in not protesting against it4 ,i believe it to be the duty of the ,federal ,government to protect all its citizens1 at home as well as abroad4 ,my hope is that there will be a division in the ,democratic party4 ,that party has something now to divide4 ,at last it has a bone1 and probably the fighting will commence4 ,i hope that some new issue will take color out of politics1 something about which both white and colored may divide4 ,of course nothing would please me better than to see the ,democratic party become great and grand enough to give the colored people their rights4 ,question4 ,why did you not take part in the campaign8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i was afraid of frightening the preachers away4 ,i might have done good by scaring one1 but ,i did not know ,burchard until it was too late4 ,seriously1 ,i did not think that ,i was needed4 ,i supposed that ,blaine had a walkover1 that he was certain to carry ,new ,york4 ,i had business of my own to attend to and did not want to interfere with the campaign4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the policy of nominating ,blaine in #ahhh1 as has been proposed8 ,answer4 ,i think it too early to say what will be done in #ahhh4 ,parties do not exist for one man4 ,parties have certain ends in view and they choose men as instruments to accomplish these ends4 ,parties belong to principles1 not persons4 ,no party can afford to follow anybody4 ,if in #ahhh ,mr4 ,blaine should appear to be the best man for the party then he will be nominated1 otherwise not4 ,i know nothing about any intention to nominate him again and have no idea whether he has that ambition4 ,the ,whig party was intensely loyal to ,henry ,clay and forgot the needs of the country1 and allowed the ,democrats to succeed with almost unknown men4 ,parties should not belong to persons1 but persons should belong to parties4 ,let us not be too previous--let us wait4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the course pursued by the ,rev4 ,drs4 ,ball and ,burchard8 ,answer4 ,in politics the preacher is somewhat dangerous4 ,he has a standard of his own2 he has queer ideas of evidence1 great reliance on hearsay2 he is apt to believe things against candidates1 just because he wants to4 ,the preacher thinks that all who differ with him are instigated by the ,devil--that their intentions are evil1 and that when they behave themselves they are simply covering the poison with sugar4 ,it would have been far better for the country if ,mr4 ,ball had kept still4 ,i do not pretend to say that his intentions were not good4 ,he likely thought it his duty to lift a warning voice1 to bawl aloud and to spare not1 but ,i think he made a mistake1 and he now probably thinks so himself4 ,mr4 ,burchard was bound to say a smart thing4 ,it sounded well1 and he allowed his ears to run away with his judgment4 ,as a matter of fact1 there is no connection between rum and ,romanism4 ,catholic countries do not use as much alcohol as ,protestant4 ,england has far more drunkards than ,spain4 ,scotland can discount ,italy or ,portugal in good1 square drinking4 ,so there is no connection between ,romanism and rebellion4 ,ten times as many ,methodists and twenty times as many ,baptists went into the ,rebellion as ,catholics4 ,thousands of ,catholics fought as bravely as ,protestants for the preservation of the ,union4 ,no doubt ,mr4 ,burchard intended well4 ,he thought he was giving ,blaine a battle-cry that would send consternation into the hearts of the opposition4 ,my opinion is that in the next campaign the preachers will not be called to the front4 ,of course they have the same right to express their views that other people have1 but other people have the right to avoid the responsibility of appearing to agree with them4 ,i think though that it is about time to let up on ,burchard4 ,he has already unloaded on the ,lord4 ,question4 ,do you think ,cleveland will put any ,southern men in his ,cabinet8 ,answer4 ,i do4 ,nothing could be in worse taste than to ignore the section that gave him three-fourths of his vote4 ,the people have put the ,democratic party in power4 ,they intended to do what they did1 and why should the ,south not be recognized8 ,garland would make a good ,attorney-,general2 ,lamar has the ability to fill any position in the ,cabinet4 ,i could name several others well qualified1 and ,i suppose that two or three ,southern men will be in the ,cabinet4 ,if they are good enough to elect a ,president they are good enough to be selected by a ,president4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,mr4 ,conkling's course8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,conkling certainly had the right to keep still4 ,he was under no obligation to the party4 ,the ,republican papers have not tried to secure his services4 ,he has been very generally and liberally denounced ever since his quarrel with ,mr4 ,garfield1 and it is only natural to resent what a man feels to be an injustice4 ,i suppose he has done what he honestly thought was1 under the circumstances1 his duty4 ,i believe him to be a man of stainless integrity1 and he certainly has as much independence of character as one man can carry4 ,it is time to put the party whip away4 ,people can be driven from1 but not to1 the ,republican party4 ,if we expect to win in #ahhh we must welcome recruits4 --,the ,plain ,dealer1 ,cleveland1 ,ohio1 ,dec4 #aa1 #ahhd4 ,,religious ,,prejudice4 ,question4 ,will a time ever come when political campaigns will be conducted independently of religious prejudice8 ,answer4 ,as long as men are prejudiced1 they will probably be religious1 and certainly as long as they are religious they will be prejudiced1 and every religionist who imagines the next world infinitely more important than this1 and who imagines that he gets his orders from ,god instead of from his own reason1 or from his fellow-citizens1 and who thinks that he should do something for the glory of ,god instead of for the benefit of his fellow-citizens --just as long as they believe these things1 just so long their prejudices will control their votes4 ,every good1 ignorant1 orthodox ,christian places his ,bible above laws and constitutions4 ,every good1 sincere and ignorant ,catholic puts pope above king and president1 as well as above the legally expressed will of a majority of his countrymen4 ,every ,christian believes ,god to be the source of all authority4 ,i believe that the authority to govern comes from the consent of the governed4 ,man is the source of power1 and to protect and increase human happiness should be the object of government4 ,i think that religious prejudices are growing weaker because religious belief is growing weaker4 ,and these prejudices --should men ever become really civilized--will finally fade away4 ,i think that a ,presbyterian1 to-day1 has no more prejudice against an ,atheist than he has against a ,catholic4 ,a ,catholic does not dislike an ,infidel any more than he does a ,presbyterian1 and ,i believe1 to-day1 that most of the ,presbyterians would rather see and ,atheist ,president than a pronounced ,catholic4 ,question4 ,is ,agnosticism gaining ground in the ,united ,states8 ,answer4 ,of course1 there are thousands and thousands of men who have now advanced intellectually to the point of perceiving the limit of human knowledge4 ,in other words1 at last they are beginning to know enough to know what can and cannot be known4 ,sensible men know that nobody knows whether an infinite ,god exists or not4 ,sensible men know that an infinite personality cannot1 by human testimony1 be established4 ,sensible men are giving up trying to answer the questions of origin and destiny1 and are paying more attention to what happens between these questions--that is to say1 to this world4 ,infidelity increases as knowledge increases1 as fear dies1 and as the brain develops4 ,after all1 it is a question of intelligence4 ,only cunning performs a miracle1 only ignorance believes it4 ,question4 ,do you think that evolution and revealed religion are compatible--that is to say1 can a man be an evolutionist and a ,christian8 ,answer4 ,evolution and ,christianity may be compatible1 provided you take the ground that ,christianity is only one of the links in the chain1 one of the phases of civilization4 ,but if you mean by ,christianity what is generally understood1 of course that and evolution are absolutely incompatible4 ,christianity pretends to be not only the truth1 but1 so far as religion is concerned1 the whole truth4 ,christianity pretends to give a history of religion and a prophecy of destiny4 ,as a philosophy1 it is an absolute failure4 ,as a history1 it is false4 ,there is no possible way by which ,darwin and ,moses can be harmonized4 ,there is an inexpressible conflict between ,christianity and ,science1 and both cannot long inhabit the same brain4 ,you cannot harmonize evolution and the atonement4 ,the survival of the fittest does away with original sin4 ,question4 ,from your knowledge of the religious tendency in the ,united ,states1 how long will orthodox religion be popular8 ,answer4 ,i do not think that orthodox religion is popular to-day4 ,the ministers dare not preach the creed in all its naked deformity and horror4 ,they are endeavoring with the vines of sentiment to cover up the caves and dens in which crawl the serpents of their creed4 ,very few ministers care now to speak of eternal pain4 ,they leave out the lake of fire and brimstone4 ,they are not fond of putting in the lips of ,christ the loving words1 ,depart from me1 ye cursed4 ,the miracles are avoided4 ,in short1 what is known as orthodoxy is already unpopular4 ,most ministers are endeavoring to harmonize what they are pleased to call science and ,christianity1 and nothing is now so welcome to the average ,christian as some work tending to show that1 after all1 ,joshua was an astronomer4 ,question4 ,what section of the ,united ,states1 ,east1 ,west1 ,north1 or ,south1 is the most advanced in liberal religious ideas8 ,answer4 ,that section of the country in which there is the most intelligence is the most liberal4 ,that section of the country where there is the most ignorance is the most prejudiced4 ,the least brain is the most orthodox4 ,there possibly is no more progressive city in the world1 no more liberal1 than ,boston4 ,chicago is full of liberal people4 ,so is ,san ,francisco4 ,the brain of ,new ,york is liberal4 ,every town1 every city1 is liberal in the precise proportion that it is intelligent4 ,question4 ,will the religion of humanity be the religion of the future8 ,answer4 ,yes2 it is the only religion now4 ,all other is superstition4 ,what they call religion rests upon a supposed relation between man and ,god4 ,in what they call religion man is asked to do something for ,god4 ,as ,god wants nothing1 and can by no possibility accept anything1 such a religion is simply superstition4 ,humanity is the only possible religion4 ,whoever imagines that he can do anything for ,god is mistaken4 ,whoever imagines that he can add to his happiness in the next world by being useless in this1 is also mistaken4 ,and whoever thinks that any ,god cares how he cuts his hair or his clothes1 or what he eats1 or whether he fasts1 or rings a bell1 or puts holy water on his breast1 or counts beads1 or shuts his eyes and says words to the clouds1 is laboring under a great mistake4 ,question4 ,a man in the ,swaim ,court ,martial case was excluded as a witness because he was an ,atheist4 ,do you think the law in the next decade will permit the affirmative oath8 ,answer4 ,if belief affected your eyes1 your ears1 any of your senses1 or your memory1 then1 of course1 no man ought to be a witness who had not the proper belief4 ,but unless it can be shown that ,atheism interferes with the sight1 the hearing1 or the memory1 why should justice shut the door to truth8 ,in most of the ,states of this ,union ,i could not give testimony4 ,should a man be murdered before my eyes ,i could not tell a jury who did it4 ,christianity endeavors to make an honest man an outlaw4 ,christianity has such a contemptible opinion of human nature that it does not believe a man can tell the truth unless frightened by a belief in ,god4 ,no lower opinion of the human race has ever been expressed4 ,question4 ,do you think that bigotry would persecute now for religious opinion's sake1 if it were not for the law and the press8 ,answer4 ,i think that the church would persecute to-day if it had the power1 just as it persecuted in the past4 ,we are indebted for nearly all our religious liberty to the hypocrisy of the church4 ,the church does not believe4 ,some in the church do1 and if they had the power1 they would torture and burn as of yore4 ,give the ,presbyterian ,church the power1 and it would not allow an ,infidel to live4 ,give the ,methodist ,church the power and the result would be the same4 ,give the ,catholic ,church the power--just the same4 ,no church in the ,united ,states would be willing that any other church should have the power4 ,the only men who are to be angels in the next world are the ones who cannot be trusted with human liberty in this2 and the man who are destined to live forever in hell are the only gentlemen with whom human liberty is safe4 ,why should ,christians refuse to persecute in this world1 when their ,god is going to in the next8 --,mail and ,express1 ,new ,york1 ,january #ab1 #ahhe4 ,,cleveland ,,and ,,his ,,cabinet4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,mr4 ,cleveland's ,cabinet8 ,answer4 ,it is a very good ,cabinet4 ,some objections have been made to ,mr4 ,lamar1 but ,i think he is one of the very best4 ,he is a man of ability1 of unquestioned integrity1 and is well informed on national affairs4 ,ever since he delivered his eulogy on the life and services of ,sumner1 ,i have had great respect for ,mr4 ,lamar4 ,he is far beyond most of his constituents1 and has done much to destroy the provincial prejudices of ,mississippi4 ,he will without doubt make an excellent ,secretary of the ,interior4 ,the ,south has no better representative man1 and ,i believe his appointment will1 in a little while1 be satisfactory to the whole country4 ,bayard stands high in his party1 and will certainly do as well as his immediate predecessor4 ,nothing could be better than the change in the ,department of ,justice4 ,garland is an able lawyer1 has been an influential ,senator and will1 in my judgment1 make an excellent ,attorney-,general4 ,the rest of the ,cabinet ,i know little about1 but from what ,i hear ,i believe they are men of ability and that they will discharge their duties well4 ,mr4 ,vilas has a great reputation in ,wisconsin1 and is one of the best and most forcible speakers in the country4 ,question4 ,will ,mr4 ,cleveland1 in your opinion1 carry out the civil service reform he professes to favor8 ,answer4 ,i have no reason to suspect even that he will not4 ,he has promised to execute the law1 and the promise is in words that do not admit of two interpretations4 ,of course he is sincere4 ,he knows that this course will save him a world of trouble1 and he knows that it makes no difference about the politics of a copyist4 ,all the offices of importance will in all probability be filled by ,democrats4 ,the ,president will not put himself in the power of his opponents4 ,if he is to be held responsible for the administration he must be permitted to choose his own assistants4 ,this is too plain to talk about4 ,let us give ,mr4 ,cleveland a fair show--and let us expect success instead of failure4 ,i admit that many ,presidents have violated their promises4 ,there seems to be something in the atmosphere of ,washington that breeds promise and prevents performance4 ,i suppose it is some kind of political malarial microbe4 ,i hope that some political ,pasteur will1 one of these days1 discover the real disease so that candidates can be vaccinated during the campaign4 ,until them1 presidential promises will be liable to a discount4 ,question4 ,is the ,republican party dead8 ,answer4 ,my belief is that the next ,president will be a ,republican1 and that both houses will be ,republican in #ahhi4 ,mr4 ,blaine was defeated by an accident--by the slip of another man's tongue4 ,but it matters little what party is in power if the ,government is administered upon correct principles1 and if the ,democracy adopt the views of the ,republicans and carry out ,republican measures1 it may be that they can keep in power--otherwise--otherwise4 ,if the ,democrats carry out real ,democratic measures1 then their defeat is certain4 ,question4 ,do you think that the era of good feeling between the ,north and the ,south has set in with the appointment of ex-rebels to the ,cabinet8 ,answer4 ,the war is over4 ,the ,south failed4 ,the ,nation succeeded4 ,we should stop talking about ,south and ,north4 ,we are one people1 and whether we agree or disagree one destiny awaits us4 ,we cannot divide4 ,we must live together4 ,we must trust each other4 ,confidence begets confidence4 ,the whole country was responsible for slavery4 ,slavery was rebellion4 ,slavery is dead--so is rebellion4 ,liberty has united the country and there is more real union1 national sentiment to-day1 ,north and ,south1 than ever before4 ,question4 ,it is hinted that ,mr4 ,tilden is really the power behind the throne4 ,do you think so8 ,answer4 ,i guess nobody has taken the hint4 ,of course ,mr4 ,tilden has retired from politics4 ,the probability is that many ,democrats ask his advice1 and some rely on his judgment4 ,he is regarded as a piece of ancient wisdom--a phenomenal persistence of the ,jeffersonian type--the connecting link with the framers1 founders and fathers4 ,the power behind the throne is the power that the present occupant supposes will determine who the next occupant shall be4 ,question4 ,with the introduction of the ,democracy into power1 what radical changes will take place in the ,government1 and what will be the result8 ,answer4 ,if the ,president carries out his inaugural promises there will be no radical changes1 and if he does not there will be a very radical change at the next presidential election4 ,the inaugural is a very good ,republican document4 ,there is nothing in it calculated to excite alarm4 ,there is no dangerous policy suggested--no conceited vagaries--nothing but a plain statement of the situation and the duty of the ,chief ,magistrate as understood by the ,president4 ,i think that the inaugural surprised the ,democrats and the ,republicans both1 and if the ,president carries out the program he has laid down he will surprise and pacify a large majority of the ,american people4 --,mail and ,express1 ,new ,york1 ,march #aj1 #ahhe4 ,,religion1 ,,prohibition1 ,,and ,,gen4 ,,grant4 ,question4 ,what do you think of prohibition1 and what do you think of its success in this ,state8 ,answer4 ,few people understand the restraining influence of liberty4 ,moderation walks hand in hand with freedom4 ,i do not mean the freedom springing from the sudden rupture of restraint4 ,that kind of freedom usually rushes to extremes4 ,people must be educated to take care of themselves1 and this education must commence in infancy4 ,self-restraint is the only kind that can always be depended upon4 ,of course intemperance is a great evil4 ,it causes immense suffering--clothes wives and children in rags1 and is accountable for many crimes1 particularly those of violence4 ,laws to be of value must be honestly enforced4 ,laws that sleep had better be dead4 ,laws to be enforced must be honestly approved of and believed in by a large majority of the people4 ,unpopular laws make hypocrites1 perjurers and official shirkers of duty4 ,and if to the violation of such laws severe penalties attach1 they are rarely enforced4 ,laws that create artificial crimes are the hardest to carry into effect4 ,you can never convince a majority of people that it is as bad to import goods without paying the legal duty as to commit larceny4 ,neither can you convince a majority of people that it is a crime or sin1 or even a mistake1 to drink a glass of wine or beer4 ,thousands and thousands of people in this ,state honestly believe that prohibition is an interference with their natural rights1 and they feel justified in resorting to almost any means to defeat the law4 ,in this way people become somewhat demoralized4 ,it is unfortunate to pass laws that remain unenforced on account of their unpopularity4 ,people who would on most subjects swear to the truth do not hesitate to testify falsely on a prohibition trial4 ,in addition to this1 every known device is resorted to1 to sell in spite of the law1 and when some want to sell and a great many want to buy1 considerable business will be done1 while there are fewer saloons and less liquor sold in them4 ,the liquor is poorer and the price is higher4 ,the consumer has to pay for the extra risk4 ,more liquor finds its way to homes1 more men buy by the bottle and gallon4 ,in old times nearly everybody kept a little rum or whiskey on the sideboard4 ,the great ,washingtonian temperance movement drove liquor out of the home and increased the taverns and saloons4 ,now we are driving liquor back to the homes4 ,in my opinion there is a vast difference between distilled spirits and the lighter drinks1 such as wine and beer4 ,wine is a fireside and whiskey a conflagration4 ,these lighter drinks are not unhealthful and do not1 as ,i believe1 create a craving for stronger beverages4 ,you will1 ,i think1 find it almost impossible to enforce the present law against wine and beer4 ,i was told yesterday that there are some sixty places in ,cedar ,rapids where whiskey is sold4 ,it takes about as much ceremony to get a drink as it does to join the ,masons1 but they seem to like the ceremony4 ,people seem to take delight in outwitting the ,state when it does not involve the commission of any natural offence1 and when about to be caught1 may not hesitate to swear falsely to the extent of don't remember1 or can't say positively1 or can't swear whether it was whiskey or not4 ,one great trouble in ,iowa is that the politicians1 or many of them who openly advocate prohibition1 are really opposed to it4 ,they want to keep the ,german vote1 and they do not want to lose native ,republicans4 ,they feel a divided duty to ride both horses4 ,this causes the contrast between their conversation and their speeches4 ,a few years ago ,i took dinner with a gentleman who had been elected ,governor of one of our ,states on the ,prohibition ticket4 ,we had four kinds of wine during the meal1 and a pony of brandy at the end4 ,prohibition will never be a success until it prohibits the ,prohibitionists4 ,and yet ,i most sincerely hope and believe that the time will come when drunkenness shall have perished from the earth4 ,let us cultivate the love of home4 ,let husbands and wives and children be companions4 ,let them seek amusements together4 ,if it is a good place for father to go1 it is a good place for mother and the children4 ,i believe that a home can be made more attractive than a saloon4 ,let the boys and girls amuse themselves at home--play games1 study music1 read interesting books1 and let the parents be their playfellows4 ,the best temperance lecture1 in the fewest words1 you will find in ,victor ,hugo's great novel ,les ,miserables4 ,the grave digger is asked to take a drink4 ,he refuses and gives this reason3 ,the hunger of my family is the enemy of my thirst4 ,question4 ,many people wonder why you are out of politics4 ,will you give your reasons8 ,answer4 ,a few years ago great questions had to be settled4 ,the life of the nation was at stake4 ,later the liberty of millions of slaves depended upon the action of the ,government4 ,afterward reconstruction and the rights of citizens pressed themselves upon the people for solution4 ,and last1 the preservation of national honor and credit4 ,these questions did not enter into the last campaign4 ,they had all been settled1 and properly settled1 with the one exception of the duty of the nation to protect the colored citizens4 ,the ,supreme ,court settled that1 at least for a time1 and settled it wrong4 ,but the ,republican party submitted to the civil rights decision1 and so1 as between the great parties1 that question did not arise4 ,this left only two questions--protection and office4 ,but as a matter of fact1 all ,republicans were not for our present system of protection1 and all ,democrats were not against it4 ,on that question each party was and is divided4 ,on the other question--office--both parties were and are in perfect harmony4 ,nothing remains now for the ,democrats to do except to give a working definition of offensive partisanship4 ,question4 ,do you think that the ,american people are seeking after truth1 or do they want to be amused8 ,answer4 ,we have all kinds4 ,thousands are earnestly seeking for the truth4 ,they are looking over the old creeds1 they are studying the ,bible for themselves1 they have the candor born of courage1 they are depending upon themselves instead of on the clergy4 ,they have found out that the clergy do not know2 that their sources of information are not reliable2 that1 like the politicians1 many ministers preach one way and talk another4 ,the doctrine of eternal pain has driven millions from the church4 ,people with good hearts cannot get consolation out of that cruel lie4 ,the ministers themselves are getting ashamed to call that doctrine the tidings of great joy4 ,the ,american people are a serious people4 ,they want to know the truth4 ,they fell that whatever the truth may be they have the courage to hear it4 ,the ,american people also have a sense of humor4 ,they like to see old absurdities punctured and solemn stupidity held up to laughter4 ,they are1 on the average1 the most intelligent people on the earth4 ,they can see the point4 ,their wit is sharp1 quick and logical4 ,nothing amuses them more that to see the mask pulled from the face of sham4 ,the average ,american is generous1 intelligent1 level-headed1 manly1 and good- natured4 ,question4 ,what1 in your judgment1 is the source of the greatest trouble among men8 ,answer4 ,superstition4 ,that has caused more agony1 more tears1 persecution and real misery than all other causes combined4 ,the other name for superstition is ignorance4 ,when men learn that all sin is a mistake1 that all dishonesty is a blunder1 that even intelligent selfishness will protect the rights of others1 there will be vastly more happiness in this world4 ,shakespeare says that ,there is no darkness but ignorance4 ,sometime man will learn that when he steals from another1 he robs himself--that the way to be happy is to make others so1 and that it is far better to assist his fellow-man than to fast1 say prayers1 count beads or build temples to the ,unknown4 ,some people tell us that selfishness is the only sin1 but selfishness grows in the soil of ignorance4 ,after all1 education is the great lever1 and the only one capable of raising mankind4 ,people ignorant of their own rights are ignorant of the rights of others4 ,every tyrant is the slave of ignorance4 ,question4 ,how soon do you think we would have the millennium if every person attended strictly to his own business8 ,answer4 ,now1 if every person were intelligent enough to know his own business--to know just where his rights ended and the rights of others commenced1 and then had the wisdom and honesty to act accordingly1 we should have a very happy world4 ,most people like to control the conduct of others4 ,they love to write rules1 and pass laws for the benefit of their neighbors1 and the neighbors are pretty busy at the same business4 ,people1 as a rule1 think that they know the business of other people better than they do their own4 ,a man watching others play checkers or chess always thinks he sees better moves than the players make4 ,when all people attend to their own business they will know that a part of their own business is to increase the happiness of others4 ,question4 ,what is causing the development of this country8 ,answer4 ,education1 the free exchange of ideas1 inventions by which the forces of nature become our servants1 intellectual hospitality1 a willingness to hear the other side1 the richness of our soil1 the extent of our territory1 the diversity of climate and production1 our system of government1 the free discussion of political questions1 our social freedom1 and above all1 the fact that labor is honorable4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the religious tendency of the people of this country8 ,answer4 ,using the word religion in its highest and best sense1 the people are becoming more religious4 ,we are far more religious --using the word in its best sense--than when we believed in human slavery1 but we are not as orthodox as we were then4 ,we have more principle and less piety4 ,we care more for the right and less for the creed4 ,the old orthodox dogmas are mouldy4 ,you will find moss on their backs4 ,they are only brought out when a new candidate for the ministry is to be examined4 ,only a little while ago in ,new ,york a candidate for the ,presbyterian pulpit was examined and the following is a part of the examination3 ,question4 ,do you believe in eternal punishment1 as set forth in the confession of faith8 ,answer4 7,with some hesitation7 ,yes1 ,i do4 ,question4 ,have you preached on that subject lately8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,i prepared a sermon on hell1 in which ,i took the ground that the punishment of the wicked will be endless1 and have it with me4 ,question4 ,did you deliver it8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,i thought that my congregation would not care to hear it4 ,the doctrine is rather unpopular where ,i have been preaching1 and ,i was afraid ,i might do harm1 so ,i have not delivered it yet4 ,question4 ,but you believe in eternal damnation1 do you not8 ,answer4 ,o yes1 with all my heart4 ,he was admitted1 and the admission proves the dishonesty of the examiners and the examined4 ,the new version of the ,old and ,new ,testaments has done much to weaken confidence in the doctrine of inspiration4 ,it has occurred to a good many that if ,god took the pains to inspire men to write the ,bible1 he ought to have inspired others to translate it correctly4 ,the general tendency today is toward science1 toward naturalism1 toward what is called ,infidelity1 but is in fact fidelity4 ,men are in a transition state1 and the people1 on the average1 have more real good1 sound sense to-day than ever before4 ,the church is losing its power for evil4 ,the old chains are wearing out1 and new ones are not being made4 ,the tendency is toward intellectual freedom1 and that means the final destruction of the orthodox bastille4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,general ,grant as he stands before the people to-day8 ,answer4 ,i have always regarded ,general ,grant as the greatest soldier this continent has produced4 ,he is to-day the most distinguished son of the ,republic4 ,the people have the greatest confidence in his ability1 his patriotism and his integrity4 ,the financial disaster impoverished ,general ,grant1 but he did not stain the reputation of the grand soldier who led to many victories the greatest army that ever fought for the liberties of man4 --,iowa ,state ,register1 ,may #bc1 #ahhe4 ,,hell ,,or ,,sheol ,,and ,,other ,,subjects4 ,question4 ,colonel1 have you read the revised ,testament8 ,answer4 ,yes1 but ,i don't believe the work has been fairly done4 ,the clergy are not going to scrape the butter off their own bread4 ,the clergy are offensive partisans1 and those of each denomination will interpret the ,scriptures their way4 ,no ,baptist minister would countenance a ,revision that favored sprinkling1 and no ,catholic priest would admit that any version would be correct that destroyed the dogma of the real presence4 ,so ,i might go through all the denominations4 ,question4 ,why was the word sheol introduced in place of hell1 and how do you like the substitute8 ,answer4 ,the civilized world has outgrown the vulgar and brutal hell of their fathers and founders of the churches4 ,the clergy are ashamed to preach about sulphurous flames and undying worms4 ,the imagination of the world has been developed1 the heart has grown tender1 and the old dogma of eternal pain shocks all civilized people4 ,it is becoming disgraceful either to preach or believe in such a beastly lie4 ,the clergy are beginning to think that it is hardly manly to frighten children with a detected falsehood4 ,sheol is a great relief4 ,it is not so hot as the old place4 ,the nights are comfortable1 and the society is quite refined4 ,the worms are dead1 and the air reasonably free from noxious vapors4 ,it is a much worse word to hold a revival with1 but much better for every day use4 ,it will hardly take the place of the old word when people step on tacks1 put up stoves1 or sit on pins2 but for use at church fairs and mite societies it will do about as well4 ,we do not need revision2 excision is what we want4 ,the barbarism should be taken out of the ,bible4 ,passages upholding polygamy1 wars of extermination1 slavery1 and religious persecution should not be attributed to a perfect ,god4 ,the good that is in the ,bible will be saved for man1 and man will be saved from the evil that is in that book4 ,why should we worship in ,god what we detest in man8 ,question4 ,do you think the use of the word sheol will make any difference to the preachers8 ,answer4 ,of course it will make no difference with ,talmage4 ,he will make sheol just as hot and smoky and uncomfortable as hell1 but the congregations will laugh instead of tremble4 ,the old shudder has gone4 ,beecher had demolished hell before sheol was adopted4 ,according to his doctrine of evolution hell has been slowly growing cool4 ,the cindered souls do not even perspire4 ,sheol is nothing to ,mr4 ,beecher but a new name for an old mistake4 ,as for the effect it will have on ,heber ,newton1 ,i cannot tell1 neither can he1 until he asks his bishop4 ,there are people who believe in witches and madstones and fiat money1 and centuries hence it may be that people will exist who will believe as firmly in hell as ,dr4 ,shedd does now4 ,question4 ,what about ,beecher's sermons on ,evolution8 ,answer4 ,beecher's sermons on ,evolution will do good4 ,millions of people believe that ,mr4 ,beecher knows at least as much as the other preachers1 and if he regards the atonement as a dogma with a mistake for a foundation1 they may conclude that the whole system is a mistake4 ,but whether ,mr4 ,beecher is mistaken or not1 people know that honesty is a good thing1 that gratitude is a virtue1 that industry supports the world1 and that whatever they believe about religion they are bound by every conceivable obligation to be just and generous4 ,mr4 ,beecher can no more succeed in reconciling science and religion1 than he could in convincing the world that triangles and circles are exactly the same4 ,there is the same relation between science and religion that there is between astronomy and astrology1 between alchemy and chemistry1 between orthodoxy and common sense4 ,question4 ,have you read ,miss ,cleveland's book8 ,she condemns ,george ,eliot's poetry on the ground that it has no faith in it1 nothing beyond4 ,do you imagine she would condemn ,burns or ,shelley for that reason8 ,answer4 ,i have not read ,miss ,cleveland's book2 but1 if the author condemns the poetry of ,george ,eliot1 she has made a mistake4 ,there is no poem in our language more beautiful than ,the ,lovers1 and none loftier or purer than ,the ,choir ,invisible4 ,there is no poetry in the beyond4 ,the poetry is here--here in this world1 where love is in the heart4 ,the poetry of the beyond is too far away1 a little too general4 ,shelley's ,skylark was in our sky1 the daisy of ,burns grew on our ground1 and between that lark and that daisy is room for all the real poetry of the earth4 --,evening ,record1 ,boston1 ,mass41 #ahhe4 ,,interviewing1 ,,politics ,,and ,,spiritualism4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the peculiar institution of ,american journalism known as interviewing8 ,answer4 ,if the interviewers are fair1 if they know how to ask questions of a public nature1 if they remember what is said1 or write it at the time1 and if the interviewed knows enough to answer questions in a way to amuse or instruct the public1 then interviewing is a blessing4 ,but if the representative of the press asks questions1 either impudent or unimportant1 and the answers are like the questions1 then the institution is a failure4 ,when the journalist fails to see the man he wishes to interview1 or when the man refuses to be interviewed1 and thereupon the aforesaid journalist writes up an interview1 doing the talking for both sides1 the institution is a success4 ,such interviews are always interesting1 and1 as a rule1 the questions are to the point and the answers perfectly responsive4 ,there is probably a little too much interviewing1 and to many persons are asked questions upon subjects about which they know nothing4 ,mr4 ,smith makes some money in stocks or pork1 visits ,london1 and remains in that city for several weeks4 ,on his return he is interviewd as to the institutions1 laws and customs of the ,british ,empire4 ,of course such an interview is exceedingly instructive4 ,lord ,affanaff lands at the dock in ,north ,river1 is driven to a hotel in a closed carriage1 is interviewed a few minutes after by a representative of the ,herald as to his view of the great ,republic based upon what he has seen4 ,such an interview is also instructive4 ,interviews with candidates as to their chances of election is another favorite way of finding out their honest opinion1 but people who rely on those interviews generally lose their bets4 ,the most interesting interviews are generally denied4 ,i have been expecting to see an interview with the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,leonard on the medicinal properties of champagne and toast1 or the relation between old ale and modern theology1 and as to whether prohibition prohibits the ,prohibitionists4 ,question4 ,have you ever been misrepresented in interviews8 ,answer4 ,several times4 ,as a general rule1 the clergy have selected these misrepresentations when answering me4 ,i never blamed them1 because it is much easier to answer something ,i did not say4 ,most reporters try to give my real words1 but it is difficult to remember4 ,they try to give the substance1 and in that way change or destroy the sense4 ,you remember the ,frenchman who translated ,shakespeare's great line in ,macbeth--,out1 brief candle6--into ,short candle1 go out6 ,another man1 trying to give the last words of ,webster--,i still live--said ,i aint dead yit4 ,so that when they try to do their best they often make mistakes4 ,now and then interviews appear not one word of which ,i ever said1 and sometimes when ,i really had an interview1 another one has appeared4 ,but generally the reporters treat me well1 and most of them succeed in telling about what ,i said4 ,personally ,i have no cause for complaint4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the administration of ,president ,cleveland8 ,answer4 ,i know but very little about it4 ,i suppose that he is doing the best he can4 ,he appears to be carrying out in good faith the principles laid down in the platform on which he was elected4 ,he is having a hard road to travel4 ,to satisfy an old ,democrat and a new mugwump is a difficult job4 ,cleveland appears to be the owner of himself--appears to be a man of great firmness and force of character4 ,the best thing that ,i have heard about him is that he went fishing on ,sunday4 ,we have had so much mock morality1 dude deportment and hypocritical respectability in public office1 that a man with courage enough to enjoy himself on ,sunday is a refreshing and healthy example4 ,all things considered ,i do not see but that ,cleveland is doing well enough4 ,the attitude of the administration toward the colored people is manly and fair so far as ,i can see4 ,question4 ,are you still a ,republican in political belief8 ,answer4 ,i believe that this is a ,nation4 ,i believe in the equality of all men before the law1 irrespective of race1 religion or color4 ,i believe that there should be a dollar's worth of silver in a silver dollar4 ,i believe in a free ballot and a fair count4 ,i believe in protecting those industries1 and those only1 that need protection4 ,i believe in unrestricted coinage of gold and silver4 ,i believe in the rights of the ,state1 the rights of the citizen1 and the sovereignty of the ,nation4 ,i believe in good times1 good health1 good crops1 good prices1 good wages1 good food1 good clothes and in the absolute and unqualified liberty of thought4 ,if such belief makes a ,republican1 than that is what ,i am4 ,question4 ,do you approve of ,john ,sherman's policy in the present campaign with reference to the bloody shirt1 which reports of his speeches show that he is waving8 ,answer4 ,i have not read ,senator ,sherman's speech4 ,it seems to me that there is a better feeling between the ,north and ,south than ever before--better than at any time since the ,revolutionary war4 ,i believe in cultivating that feeling1 and in doing and saying what we can to contribute to its growth4 ,we have hated long enough and fought enough4 ,the colored people never have been well treated but they are being better treated now than ever before4 ,it takes a long time to do away with prejudices that were based upon religion and rascality--that is to say1 inspiration and interest4 ,we must remember that slavery was the crime of the whole country4 ,now1 if ,senator ,sherman has made a speech calculated to excite the hatreds and prejudices of the ,north and ,south1 ,i think that he has made a mistake4 ,i do not say that he has made such a speech1 because ,i have not read it4 ,the war is over--it ended at ,appomattox4 ,let us hope that the bitterness born of the conflict died out forever at ,riverside4 ,the people are tired almost to death of the old speeches4 ,they have been worn out and patched1 and even the patches are threadbare4 ,the ,supreme ,court decided the ,civil ,rights ,bill to be unconstitutional1 and the ,republican party submitted4 ,i regarded the decision as monstrous1 but the ,republican party when in power said nothing and did nothing4 ,i most sincerely hope that the ,democratic party will protect the colored people at least as well as we did when we were in power4 ,but ,i am out of politics and intend to keep politics out of me4 ,question4 ,we have been having the periodical revival of interest in ,spiritualism4 ,what do you think of ,spiritualism1 as it is popularly termed8 ,answer4 ,i do not believe in the supernatural4 ,one who does not believe in gods would hardly believe in ghosts4 ,i am not a believer in any of the wonders and miracles whether ancient or modern4 ,there may be spirits1 but ,i do not believe there are4 ,they may communicate with some people1 but thus far they have been successful in avoiding me4 ,of course1 ,i know nothing for certain on the subject4 ,i know a great many excellent people who are thoroughly convinced of the truth of ,spiritualism4 ,christians laugh at the miracles to-day1 attested by folks they know1 but believe the miracles of long ago1 attested by folks that they did not know4 ,this is one of the contradictions in human nature4 ,most people are willing to believe that wonderful things happened long ago and will happen again in the far future2 with them the present is the only time in which nature behaves herself with becoming sobriety4 ,in old times nature did all kinds of juggling tricks1 and after a long while will do some more1 but now she is attending strictly to business1 depending upon cause and effect4 ,question4 ,who1 in your opinion1 is the greatest leader of the opposition yclept the ,christian religion8 ,answer4 ,i suppose that ,mr4 ,beecher is the greatest man in the pulpit1 but he thinks more of ,darwin than he does of ,david and has an idea that the ,old ,testament is just a little too old4 ,he has put evolution in the place of the atonement--has thrown away the ,garden of ,eden1 snake1 apples and all1 and is endeavoring to save enough of the orthodox wreck to make a raft4 ,i know of no other genius in the pulpit4 ,there are plenty of theological doctors and bishops and all kinds of titled humility in the sacred profession1 but men of genius are scarce4 ,all the ministers1 except ,messrs4 ,moody and ,jones1 are busy explaining away the contradiction between inspiration and demonstration4 ,question4 ,what books would you recommend for the perusal of a young man of limited time and culture with reference to helping him in the development of intellect and good character8 ,answer4 ,the works of ,darwin1 ,ernst ,haeckel1 ,draper's ,intellectual ,development of ,europe1 ,buckle's ,history of ,civilization in ,england1 ,lecky's ,history of ,european ,morals1 ,voltaire's ,philosophical ,dictionary1 ,buechner's ,force and ,matter1 ,the ,history of the ,christian ,religion by ,waite2 ,paine's ,age of ,reason1 ,d',holbach's ,system of ,nature1 and1 above all1 ,shakespeare4 ,do not forget ,burns1 ,shelley1 ,dickens and ,hugo4 ,question4 ,will you lecture the coming winter8 ,answer4 ,yes1 about the same as usual4 ,woe is me if ,i preach not my gospel4 ,question4 ,have you been invited to lecture in ,europe8 ,if so do you intend to accept the call8 ,answer4 ,yes1 often4 ,the probability is that ,i shall go to ,england and ,australia4 ,i have not only had invitations but most excellent offers from both countries4 ,there is1 however1 plenty to do here4 ,this is the best country in the world and our people are eager to hear the other side4 ,the old kind of preaching is getting superannuated4 ,it lags superfluous in the pulpit4 ,our people are outgrowing the cruelties and absurdities of the ancient ,jews4 ,the idea of hell has become shocking and vulgar4 ,eternal punishment is eternal injustice4 ,it is infinitely infamous4 ,most ministers are ashamed to preach the doctrine1 and the congregations are ashamed to hear it preached4 ,it is the essence of savagery4 --,plain ,dealer1 ,cincinnati1 ,ohio1 ,september #e1 #ahhe4 ,,my ,,belief4 ,question4 ,it is said that in the past four or five years you have changed or modified your views upon the subject of religion2 is this so8 ,answer4 ,it is not so4 ,the only change1 if that can be called a change1 is1 that ,i am more perfectly satisfied that ,i am right-- satisfied that what is called orthodox religion is a simple fabrication of mistaken men2 satisfied that there is no such thing as an inspired book and never will be2 satisfied that a miracle never was and never will be performed2 satisfied that no human being knows whether there is a ,god or not1 whether there is another life or not2 satisfied that the scheme of atonement is a mistake1 that the innocent cannot1 by suffering for the guilty1 atone for the guilt2 satisfied that the doctrine that salvation depends on belief1 is cruel and absurd2 satisfied that the doctrine of eternal punishment is infamously false2 satisfied that superstition is of no use to the human race2 satisfied that humanity is the only true and real religion4 ,no1 ,i have not modified my views4 ,i detect new absurdities every day in the popular belief4 ,every day the whole thing becomes more and more absurd4 ,of course there are hundreds and thousands of most excellent people who believe in orthodox religion2 people for whose good qualities ,i have the greatest respect2 people who have good ideas on most other subjects2 good citizens1 good fathers1 husbands1 wives and children--good in spite of their religion4 ,i do not attack people4 ,i attack the mistakes of people4 ,orthodoxy is getting weaker every day4 ,question4 ,do you believe in the existence of a ,supreme ,being8 ,answer4 ,i do not believe in any ,supreme personality or in any ,supreme ,being who made the universe and governs nature4 ,i do not say that there is no such ,being--all ,i say is that ,i do not believe that such a ,being exists4 ,i know nothing on the subject1 except that ,i know that ,i do not know and that nobody else knows4 ,but if there is such a ,being1 he certainly never wrote the ,old ,testament4 ,you will understand my position4 ,i do not say that a ,supreme ,being does not exist1 but ,i do say that ,i do not believe such a ,being exists4 ,the universe--embracing all that is--all atoms1 all stars1 each grain of sand and all the constellations1 each thought and dream of animal and man1 all matter and all force1 all doubt and all belief1 all virtue and all crime1 all joy and all pain1 all growth and all decay--is all there is4 ,it does not act because it is moved from without4 ,it acts from within4 ,it is actor and subject1 means and end4 ,it is infinite2 the infinite could not have been created4 ,it is indestructible and that which cannot be destroyed was not created4 ,i am a ,pantheist4 ,question4 ,don't you think the belief of the ,agnostic is more satisfactory to the believer than that of the ,atheist8 ,answer4 ,there is no difference4 ,the ,agnostic is an ,atheist4 ,the ,atheist is an ,agnostic4 ,the ,agnostic says3 ,i do not know1 but ,i do not believe there is any ,god4 ,the ,atheist says the same4 ,the orthodox ,christian says he knows there is a ,god2 but we know that he does not know4 ,he simply believes4 ,he cannot know4 ,the ,atheist cannot know that ,god does not exist4 ,question4 ,haven't you just the faintest glimmer of a hope that in some future state you will meet and be reunited to those who are dear to you in this8 ,answer4 ,i have no particular desire to be destroyed4 ,i am willing to go to heaven if there be such a place1 and enjoy myself for ever and ever4 ,it would give me infinite satisfaction to know that all mankind are to be happy forever4 ,infidels love their wives and children as well as ,christians do theirs4 ,i have never said a word against heaven--never said a word against the idea of immortality4 ,on the contrary1 ,i have said all ,i could truthfully say in favor of the idea that we shall live again4 ,i most sincerely hope that there is another world1 better than this1 where all the broken ties of love will be united4 ,it is the other place ,i have been fighting4 ,better that all of us should sleep the sleep of death forever than that some should suffer pain forever4 ,if in order to have a heaven there must be a hell1 then ,i say away with them both4 ,my doctrine puts the bow of hope over every grave2 my doctrine takes from every mother's heart the fear of hell4 ,no good man would enjoy himself in heaven with his friends in hell4 ,no good ,god could enjoy himself in heaven with millions of his poor1 helpless mistakes in hell4 ,the orthodox idea of heaven--with ,god an eternal inquisitor1 a few heartless angels and some redeemed orthodox1 all enjoying themselves1 while the vast multitude will weep in the rayless gloom of ,god's eternal dungeon--is not calculated to make man good or happy4 ,i am doing what ,i can to civilize the churches1 humanize the preachers and get the fear of hell out of the human heart4 ,in this business ,i am meeting with great success4 --,philadelphia ,times1 ,september #be1 #ahhe4 ,,some ,,live ,,topics4 ,question4 ,shall you attend the ,albany ,freethought ,convention8 ,answer4 ,i have agreed to be present not only1 but to address the convention1 on ,sunday1 the #acth of ,september4 ,i am greatly gratified to know that the interest in the question of intellectual liberty is growing from year to year4 ,everywhere ,i go it seems to be the topic of conversation4 ,no matter upon what subject people begin to talk1 in a little while the discussion takes a religious turn1 and people who a few moments before had not the slightest thought of saying a word about the churches1 or about the ,bible1 are giving their opinions in full4 ,i hear discussions of this kind in all the public conveyances1 at the hotels1 on the piazzas at the seaside--and they are not discussions in which ,i take any part1 because ,i rarely say anything upon these questions except in public1 unless ,i am directly addressed4 ,there is a general feeling that the church has ruled the world long enough4 ,people are beginning to see that no amount of eloquence1 or faith1 or erudition1 or authority1 can make the records of barbarism satisfactory to the heart and brain of this century4 ,they have also found that a falsehood in ,hebrew in no more credible than in plain ,english4 ,people at last are beginning to be satisfied that cruel laws were never good laws1 no matter whether inspired or uninspired4 ,the ,christian religion1 like every other religion depending upon inspired writings1 is wrecked upon the facts of nature4 ,so long as inspired writers confined themselves to the supernatural world2 so long as they talked about angels and ,gods and heavens and hells2 so long as they described only things that man has never seen1 and never will see1 they were safe1 not from contradiction1 but from demonstration4 ,but these writings had to have a foundation1 even for their falsehoods1 and that foundation was in ,nature4 ,the foundation had to be something about which somebody knew something1 or supposed they knew something4 ,they told something about this world that agreed with the then general opinion4 ,had these inspired writers told the truth about ,nature-- had they said that the world revolved on its axis1 and made a circuit about the sun--they could have gained no credence for their statements about other worlds4 ,they were forced to agree with their contemporaries about this world1 and there is where they made the fundamental mistake4 ,having grown in knowledge1 the world has discovered that these inspired men knew nothing about this earth2 that the inspired books are filled with mistakes--not only mistakes that we can contradict1 but mistakes that we can demonstrate to be mistakes4 ,had they told the truth in their day1 about this earth1 they would not have been believed about other worlds1 because their contemporaries would have used their own knowledge about this world to test the knowledge of these inspired men4 ,we pursue the same course2 and what we know about this world we use as the standard1 and by that standard we have found that the inspired men knew nothing about ,nature as it is4 ,finding that they were mistaken about this world1 we have no confidence in what they have said about another4 ,every religion has had its philosophy about this world1 and every one has been mistaken4 ,as education becomes general1 as scientific modes are adopted1 this will become clearer and clearer1 until ignorant as inspiration will be a comparison4 ,question4 ,have you seen the memorial to the ,new ,york ,legislature1 to be presented this winter1 asking for the repeal of such laws as practically unite church and state8 ,answer4 ,i have seen a memorial asking that church property be taxed like other property2 that no more money should be appropriated from the public treasury for the support of institutions managed by and in the interest of sectarian denominations2 for the repeal of all laws compelling the observance of ,sunday as a religious day4 ,such memorials ought to be addressed to the ,legislatures of all the ,states4 ,the money of the public should only be used for the benefit of the public4 ,public money should not be used for what a few gentlemen think is for the benefit of the public4 ,personally1 ,i think it would be for the benefit of the public to have ,infidel or scientific--which is the same thing--lectures delivered in every town1 in every ,state1 on every ,sunday2 but knowing that a great many men disagree with me on this point1 ,i do not claim that such lectures ought to be paid for with public money4 ,the ,methodist ,church ought not to be sustained by taxation1 nor the ,catholic1 nor any other church4 ,to relieve their property from taxation is to appropriate money1 to the extent of that tax1 for the support of that church4 ,whenever a burden is lifted from one piece of property1 it is distributed over the rest of the property of the ,state1 and to release one kind of property is to increase the tax on all other kinds4 ,there was a time when people really supposed the churches were saving souls from the eternal wrath of a ,god of infinite love4 ,being engaged in such a philanthropic work1 and at the time nobody having the courage to deny it--the church being all-powerful--all other property was taxed to support the church2 but now the more civilized part of the community1 being satisfied that a ,god of infinite love will not be eternally unjust1 feel as though the church should support herself4 ,to exempt the church from taxation is to pay a part of the priest's salary4 ,the ,catholic now objects to being taxed to support a school in which his religion is not taught4 ,he is not satisfied with the school that says nothing on the subject of religion4 ,he insists that it is an outrage to tax him to support a school where the teacher simply teaches what he knows4 ,and yet this same ,catholic wants his church exempted from taxation1 and the tax of an ,atheist or of a ,jew increased1 when he teaches in his untaxed church that the ,atheist and ,jew will both be eternally damned6 ,is it possible for impudence to go further8 ,i insist that no religion should be taught in any school supported by public money2 and by religion ,i mean superstition4 ,only that should be taught in a school that somebody can learn and that somebody can know4 ,in my judgment1 every church should be taxed precisely the same as other property4 ,the church may claim that it is one of the instruments of civilization and therefore should be exempt4 ,if you exempt that which is useful1 you exempt every trade and every profession4 ,in my judgment1 theatres have done more to civilize mankind than churches2 that is to say1 theatres have done something to civilize mankind--churches nothing4 ,the effect of all superstition has been to render men barbarous4 ,i do not believe in the civilizing effects of falsehood4 ,there was a time when ministers were supposed to be in the employ of ,god1 and it was thought that ,god selected them with great care --that their profession had something sacred about it4 ,these ideas are no longer entertained by sensible people4 ,ministers should be paid like other professional men1 and those who like their preaching should pay for the preach4 ,they should depend1 as actors do1 upon their popularity1 upon the amount of sense1 or nonsense1 that they have for sale4 ,they should depend upon the market like other people1 and if people do not want to hear sermons badly enough to build churches and pay for them1 and pay the taxes on them1 and hire the preacher1 let the money be diverted to some other use4 ,the pulpit should no longer be a pauper4 ,i do not believe in carrying on any business with the contribution box4 ,all the sectarian institutions ought to support themselves4 ,these should be no ,methodist or ,catholic or ,presbyterian hospitals or orphan asylums4 ,all these should be supported by the ,state4 ,there is no such thing as ,catholic charity1 or ,methodist charity4 ,charity belongs to humanity1 not to any particular form of faith or religion4 ,you will find as charitable people who never heard of religion1 as you can find in the church4 ,the ,state should provide for those who ought to be provided for4 ,a few ,methodists beg of everybody they meet--send women with subscription papers1 asking money from all classes of people1 and nearly everybody gives something from politeness1 or to keep from being annoyed2 and when the institution is finished1 it is pointed at as the result of ,methodism4 ,probably a majority of the people in this country suppose that there was no charity in the world until the ,christian religion was founded4 ,great men have repeated this falsehood1 until ignorance and thoughtlessness believe it4 ,there were orphan asylums in ,china1 in ,india1 and in ,egypt thousands of years before ,christ was born2 and there certainly never was a time in the history of the whole world when there was less charity in ,europe than during the centuries when the ,church of ,christ had absolute power4 ,there were hundreds of ,mohammedan asylums before ,christianity had built ten in the entire world4 ,all institutions for the care of unfortunate people should be secular--should be supported by the ,state4 ,the money for the purpose should be raised by taxation1 to the end that the burden may be borne by those able to bear it4 ,as it is now1 most of the money is paid1 not by the rich1 but by the generous1 and those most able to help their needy fellow citizens are the very ones who do nothing4 ,if the money is raised by taxation1 then the burden will fall where it ought to fall1 and these institutions will no longer be supported by the generous and emotional1 and the rich and stingy will no longer be able to evade the duties of citizenship and of humanity4 ,now1 as to the ,sunday laws1 we know that they are only spasmodically enforced4 ,now and then a few people are arrested for selling papers or cigars4 ,some unfortunate barber is grabbed by a policeman because he has been caught shaving a ,christian1 ,sunday morning4 ,now and then some poor fellow with a hack1 trying to make a dollar or two to feed his horses1 or to take care of his wife and children1 is arrested as though he were a murderer4 ,but in a few days the public are inconvenienced to that degree that the arrests stop and business goes on in its accustomed channels1 ,sunday and all4 ,now and then society becomes so pious1 so virtuous1 that people are compelled to enter saloons by the back door2 others are compelled to drink beer with the front shutters up2 but otherwise the stream that goes down the thirsty throats is unbroken4 ,the ministers have done their best to prevent all recreation on the ,sabbath4 ,they would like to stop all the boats on the ,hudson1 and on the sea-- stop all the excursion trains4 ,they would like to compel every human being that lives in the city of ,new ,york to remain within its limits twenty-four hours every ,sunday4 ,they hate the parks2 they hate music2 they hate anything that keeps a man away from church4 ,most of the churches are empty during the summer1 and now most of the ministers leave themselves1 and give over the entire city to the ,devil and his emissaries4 ,and yet if the ministers had their way1 there would be no form of human enjoyment except prayer1 signing subscription papers1 putting money in contribution boxes1 listening to sermons1 reading the cheerful histories of the ,old ,testament1 imagining the joys of heaven and the torments of hell4 ,the church is opposed to the theatre1 is the enemy of the opera1 looks upon dancing as a crime1 hates billiards1 despises cards1 opposes roller-skating1 and even entertains a certain kind of prejudice against croquet4 ,question4 ,do you think that the orthodox church gets its ideas of the ,sabbath from the teachings of ,christ8 ,answer4 ,i do not hold ,christ responsible for these idiotic ideas concerning the ,sabbath4 ,he regarded the ,sabbath as something made for man--which was a very sensible view4 ,the holiest day is the happiest day4 ,the most sacred day is the one in which have been done the most good deeds4 ,there are two reasons given in the ,bible for keeping the ,sabbath4 ,one is that ,god made the world in six days1 and rested on the seventh4 ,now that all the ministers admit that he did not make the world in six days1 but that he made it in six periods1 this reason is no longer applicable4 ,the other reason is that he brought the ,jews out of ,egypt with a mighty hand4 ,this may be a very good reason still for the observance of the ,sabbath by the ,jews1 but the real ,sabbath1 that is to say1 the day to be commemorated1 is our ,saturday1 and why should we commemorate the wrong day8 ,that disposes of the second reason4 ,nothing can be more inconsistent than the theories and practice of the churches about the ,sabbath4 ,the cars run ,sundays1 and out of the profits hundreds of ministers are supported4 ,the great iron and steel works fill with smoke and fire the ,sabbath air1 and the proprietors divide the profits with the churches4 ,the printers of the city are busy ,sunday afternoons and evenings1 and the presses during the nights1 so that the sermons of ,sunday can reach the heathen on ,monday4 ,the servants of the rich are denied the privileges of the sanctuary4 ,the coachman sits on the box out-doors1 while his employer kneels in church preparing himself for the heavenly chariot4 ,the iceman goes about on the holy day1 keeping believers cool1 they knowing at the same time that he is making it hot for himself in the world to come4 ,christians cross the ,atlantic1 knowing that the ship will pursue its way on the ,sabbath4 ,they write letters to their friends knowing that they will be carried in violation of ,jehovah's law1 by wicked men4 ,yet they hate to see a pale-faced sewing girl enjoying a few hours by the sea2 a poor mechanic walking in the fields2 or a tired mother watching her children playing on the grass4 ,nothing ever was1 nothing ever will be1 more utterly absurd and disgusting than a ,puritan ,sunday4 ,nothing ever did make a home more hateful than the strict observance of the ,sabbath4 ,it fills the house with hypocrisy and the meanest kind of petty tyranny4 ,the parents look sour and stern1 the children sad and sulky4 ,they are compelled to talk upon subjects about which they feel no interest1 or to read books that are thought good only because they are so stupid4 ,question4 ,what have you to say about the growth of ,catholicism1 the activity of the ,salvation ,army1 and the success of revivalists like the ,rev4 ,samuel ,jones8 ,is ,christianity really gaining a strong hold on the masses8 ,answer4 ,catholicism is growing in this country1 and it is the only country on earth in which it is growing4 ,its growth here depends entirely upon immigration1 not upon intellectual conquest4 ,catholic emigrants who leave their homes in the ,old ,world because they have never had any liberty1 and who are ,catholics for the same reason1 add to the number of ,catholics here1 but their children's children will not be ,catholics4 ,their children will not be very good ,catholics1 and even these immigrants themselves1 in a few years1 will not grovel quite so low in the presence of a priest4 ,the ,catholic ,church is gaining no ground in ,catholic countries4 ,the ,salvation ,army is the result of two things--the general belief in what are known as the fundamentals of ,christianity1 and the heartlessness of the church4 ,the church in ,england--that is to say1 the ,church of ,england--having succeeded--that is to say1 being supported by general taxation--that is to say1 being a successful1 well-fed parasite--naturally neglected those who did not in any way contribute to its support4 ,it became aristocratic4 ,splendid churches were built2 younger sons with good voices were put in the pulpits2 the pulpit became the asylum for aristocratic mediocrity1 and in this way the ,church of ,england lost interest in the masses and the masses lost interest in the ,church of ,england4 ,the neglected poor1 who really had some belief in religion1 and who had not been absolutely petrified by form and patronage1 were ready for the ,salvation ,army4 ,they were not at home in the church4 ,they could not pay4 ,they preferred the freedom of the street4 ,they preferred to attend a church where rags were no objection4 ,had the church loved and labored with the poor the ,salvation ,army never would have existed4 ,these people are simply giving their idea of ,christianity1 and in their way endeavoring to do what they consider good4 ,i don't suppose the ,salvation ,army will accomplish much4 ,to improve mankind you must change conditions4 ,it is not enough to work simply upon the emotional nature4 ,the surroundings must be such as naturally produce virtuous actions4 ,if we are to believe recent reports from ,london1 the ,church of ,england1 even with the assistance of the ,salvation ,army1 has accomplished but little4 ,it would be hard to find any country with less morality4 ,you would search long in the jungles of ,africa to find greater depravity4 ,i account for revivalists like the ,rev4 ,samuel ,jones in the same way4 ,there is in every community an ignorant class--what you might call a literal class--who believe in the real blood atonement2 who believe in heaven and hell1 and harps and gridirons2 who have never had their faith weakened by reading commentators or books harmonizing science and religion4 ,they love to hear the good old doctrine2 they want hell described2 they want it described so that they can hear the moans and shrieks2 they want heaven described2 they want to see ,god on a throne1 and they want to feel that they are finally to have the pleasure of looking over the battlements of heaven and seeing all their enemies among the damned4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,munger has suddenly become a revivalist4 ,according to the papers he is sought for in every direction4 ,his popularity seems to rest upon the fact that he brutally beat a girl twelve years old because she did not say her prayers to suit him4 ,muscular ,christianity is what the ignorant people want4 ,i regard all these efforts--including those made by ,mr4 ,moody and ,mr4 ,hammond--as evidence that ,christianity1 as an intellectual factor1 has almost spent its force4 ,it no longer governs the intellectual world4 ,question4 ,are not the ,catholics the least progressive8 ,and are they not1 in spite of their professions to the contrary1 enemies to republican liberty8 ,answer4 ,every church that has a standard higher than human welfare is dangerous4 ,a church that puts a book above the laws and constitution of its country1 that puts a book above the welfare of mankind1 is dangerous to human liberty4 ,every church that puts itself above the legally expressed will of the people is dangerous4 ,every church that holds itself under greater obligation to a pope than to a people is dangerous to human liberty4 ,every church that puts religion above humanity--above the well-being of man in this world--is dangerous4 ,the ,catholic ,church may be more dangerous1 not because its doctrines are more dangerous1 but because1 on the average1 its members more sincerely believe its doctrines1 and because that church can be hurled as a solid body in any given direction4 ,for these reasons it is more dangerous than other churches2 but the doctrines are no more dangerous than those of the ,protestant churches4 ,the man who would sacrifice the well- being of man to please an imaginary phantom that he calls ,god1 is also dangerous4 ,the only safe standard is the well-being of man in this world4 ,whenever this world is sacrificed for the sake of another1 a mistake has been made4 ,the only ,god that man can know is the aggregate of all beings capable of suffering and of joy within the reach of his influence4 ,to increase the happiness of such beings is to worship the only ,god that man can know4 ,question4 ,what have you to say to the assertion of ,dr4 ,deems that there were never so many ,christians as now8 ,answer4 ,i suppose that the population of the earth is greater now than at any other time within the historic period4 ,this being so1 there may be more ,christians1 so-called1 in this world than there were a hundred years ago4 ,of course1 the reverend doctor1 in making up his aggregate of ,christians1 counts all kinds and sects--,unitarians1 ,universalists1 and all the other ans and ists and ics and ites and ers4 ,but ,dr4 ,deems must admit that only a few years ago most of the persons he now calls ,christians would have been burnt as heretics and ,infidels4 ,let us compare the average ,new ,york ,christian with the ,christian of two hundred years ago4 ,it is probably safe to say that there is not now in the city of ,new ,york a genuine ,presbyterian outside of an insane asylum4 ,probably no one could be found who will to-day admit that he believes absolutely in the ,presbyterian ,confession of ,faith4 ,there is probably not an ,episcopalian who believes in the ,thirty-nine ,articles4 ,probably there is not an intelligent minister in the city of ,new ,york1 outside of the ,catholic ,church1 who believes that everything in the ,bible is true4 ,probably no clergyman1 of any standing1 would be willing to take the ground that everything in the ,old ,testament--leaving out the question of inspiration--is actually true4 ,very few ministers now preach the doctrine of eternal punishment4 ,most of them would be ashamed to utter that brutal falsehood4 ,a large majority of gentlemen who attend church take the liberty of disagreeing with the preacher4 ,they would have been very poor ,christians two hundred years ago4 ,a majority of the ministers take the liberty of disagreeing1 in many things1 with their ,presbyteries and ,synods4 ,they would have been very poor preachers two hundred years ago4 ,dr4 ,deems forgets that most ,christians are only nominally so4 ,very few believe their creeds4 ,very few even try to live in accordance with what they call ,christian doctrines4 ,nobody loves his enemies4 ,no ,christian when smitten on one cheek turns the other4 ,most ,christians do take a little thought for the morrow4 ,they do not depend entirely upon the providence of ,god4 ,most ,christians now have greater confidence in the average life-insurance company than in ,god--feel easier when dying to know that they have a policy1 through which they expect the widow will receive ten thousand dollars1 than when thinking of all the ,scripture promises4 ,even church-members do not trust in ,god to protect their own property4 ,they insult heaven by putting lightning rods on their temples4 ,they insure the churches against the act of ,god4 ,the experience of man has shown the wisdom of relying on something that we know something about1 instead of upon the shadowy supernatural4 ,the poor wretches to-day in ,spain1 depending upon their priests1 die like poisoned flies2 die with prayers between their pallid lips2 die in their filth and faith4 ,question4 ,what have you to say on the ,mormon question8 ,answer4 ,the institution of polygamy is infamous and disgusting beyond expression4 ,it destroys what we call1 and all civilized people call1 the family4 ,it pollutes the fireside1 and1 above all1 as ,burns would say1 petrifies the feeling4 ,it is1 however1 one of the institutions of ,jehovah4 ,it is protected by the ,bible4 ,it has inspiration on its side4 ,sinai1 with its barren1 granite peaks1 is a perpetual witness in its favor4 ,the beloved of ,god practiced it1 and1 according to the sacred word1 the wisest man had1 ,i believe1 about seven hundred wives4 ,this man received his wisdom directly from ,god4 ,it is hard for the average ,bible worshiper to attack this institution without casting a certain stain upon his own book4 ,only a few years ago slavery was upheld by the same ,bible4 ,slavery having been abolished1 the passages in the inspired volume upholding it have been mostly forgotten1 but polygamy lives1 and the polygamists1 with great volubility1 repeat the passages in their favor4 ,we send our missionaries to ,utah1 with their ,bibles1 to convert the ,mormons4 ,the ,mormons show1 by these very ,bibles1 that ,god is on their side4 ,nothing remain now for the missionaries except to get back their ,bibles and come home4 ,the preachers do not appeal to the ,bible for the purpose of putting down ,mormonism4 ,they say3 ,send the army4 ,if the people of this country could only be honest2 if they would only admit that the ,old ,testament is but the record of a barbarous people2 if the ,samson of the nineteenth century would not allow its limbs to be bound by the ,delilah of superstition1 it could with one blow destroy this monster4 ,what shall we say of the moral force of ,christianity1 when it utterly fails in the presence of ,mormonism8 ,what shall we say of a ,bible that we dare not read to a ,mormon as an argument against legalized lust1 or as an argument against illegal lust8 ,i am opposed to polygamy4 ,i want it exterminated by law2 but ,i hate to see the exterminators insist that ,god1 only a few thousand years ago1 was as bad as the ,mormons are to-day4 ,in my judgment1 such a ,god ought to be exterminated4 ,question4 ,what do you think of men like the ,rev4 ,henry ,ward ,beecher and the ,rev4 ,r4 ,heber ,newton8 ,do they deserve any credit for the course they have taken8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,beecher is evidently endeavoring to shore up the walls of the falling temple4 ,he sees the cracks2 he knows that the building is out of plumb2 he feels that the foundation is insecure4 ,lies can take the place of stones only so long as they are thoroughly believed4 ,mr4 ,beecher is trying to do something to harmonize superstition and science4 ,he is reading between the lines4 ,he has discovered that ,darwin is only a later ,saint ,paul1 or that ,saint ,paul was the original ,darwin4 ,he is endeavoring to make the ,new ,testament a scientific text-book4 ,of course he will fail4 ,but his intentions are good4 ,thousands of people will read the ,new ,testament with more freedom than heretofore4 ,they will look for new meanings2 and he who looks for new meanings will not be satisfied with the old ones4 ,mr4 ,beecher1 instead of strengthening the walls1 will make them weaker4 ,there is no harmony between religion and science4 ,when science was a child1 religion sought to strangle it in the cradle4 ,now that science has attained its youth1 and superstition is in its dotage1 the trembling1 palsied wreck says to the athlete3 ,let us be friends4 ,it reminds me of the bargain the cock wished to make with the horse3 ,let us agree not to step on each other's feet4 ,mr4 ,beecher1 having done away with hell1 substitutes annihilation4 ,his doctrine at present is that only a fortunate few are immortal1 and that the great mass return to dreamless dust4 ,this1 of course1 is far better than hell1 and is a great improvement on the orthodox view4 ,mr4 ,beecher cannot believe that ,god would make such a mistake as to make men doomed to suffer eternal pain4 ,why1 ,i ask1 should ,god give life to men whom he knows are unworthy of life8 ,why should he annihilate his mistakes8 ,why should he make mistakes that need annihilation8 ,it can hardly be said that ,mr4 ,beecher's idea is a new one4 ,it was taught1 with an addition1 thousands of years ago1 in ,india1 and the addition almost answers my objection4 ,the old doctrine was that only the soul that bears fruit1 only the soul that bursts into blossom1 will at the death of the body rejoin the ,infinite1 and that all other souls--souls not having blossomed--will go back into low forms and make the journey up to man once more1 and should they then blossom and bear fruit1 will be held worthy to join the ,infinite1 but should they again fail1 they again go back2 and this process is repeated until they do blossom1 and in this way all souls at last become perfect4 ,i suggest that ,mr4 ,beecher make at least this addition to his doctrine4 ,but allow me to say that1 in my judgment1 ,mr4 ,beecher is doing great good4 ,he may not convince many people that he is right1 but he will certainly convince a great many people that ,christianity is wrong4 ,question4 ,in what estimation do you hold ,charles ,watts and ,samuel ,putnam1 and what do you think of their labors in the cause of ,freethought8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,watts is an extremely logical man1 with a direct and straightforward manner and mind4 ,he has paid great attention to what is called ,secularism4 ,he thoroughly understands organization1 and he is undoubtedly one of the strongest debaters in the field4 ,he has had great experience4 ,he has demolished more divines than any man of my acquaintance4 ,i have read several of his debates4 ,in discussion he is quick1 pertinent1 logical1 and1 above all1 good natured4 ,there is not in all he says a touch of malice4 ,he can afford to be generous to his antagonists1 because he is always the victor1 and is always sure of the victory4 ,last winter wherever ,i went1 ,i heard the most favorable accounts of ,mr4 ,watts4 ,all who heard him were delighted4 ,mr4 ,putnam is one of the most thorough believers in intellectual liberty in the world4 ,he believes with all his heart1 is full of enthusiasm1 ready to make any sacrifice1 and to endure any hardship4 ,had he lived a few years ago1 he would have been a martyr4 ,he has written some of the most stirring appeals to the ,liberals of this country that ,i have ever read4 ,he believes that ,freethought has a future2 that the time is coming when the superstitions of the world will either be forgotten1 or remembered--some of them with smiles--most of them with tears4 ,mr4 ,putnam1 although endowed with a poetic nature1 with poetic insight1 clings to the known1 builds upon the experience of man1 and believes in fancies only when they are used as the wings of a fact4 ,i have never met a man who appeared to be more thoroughly devoted to the great cause of mental freedom4 ,i have read his books with great interest1 and find in them many pages filled with philosophy and pathos4 ,i have met him often and ,i never heard him utter a harsh word about any human being4 ,his good nature is as unfailing as the air4 ,his abilities are of the highest order4 ,it is a positive pleasure to meet him4 ,he is so enthusiastic1 so unselfish1 so natural1 so appreciative of others1 so thoughtful for the cause1 and so careless of himself1 that he compels the admiration of every one who really loves the just and true4 --,the ,truth ,seeker1 ,new ,york1 ,september #e1 #ahhe4 ,,the ,,president ,,and ,,senate4 ,question4 ,what have you to say with reference to the respective attitudes of the ,president and ,senate8 ,answer4 ,i don't think there is any doubt as to the right of the ,senate to call on the ,president for information4 ,of course that means for what information he has4 ,when a duty devolves upon two persons1 one of them has no right to withhold any facts calculated to throw any light on the question that both are to decide4 ,the ,president cannot appoint any officer who has to be confirmed by the ,senate2 he can simply nominate4 ,the ,senate cannot even suggest a name2 it can only pass upon the person nominated4 ,if it is called upon for counsel and advice1 how can it give advice without knowing the facts and circumstances8 ,the ,president must have a reason for wishing to make a change4 ,he should give that reason to the ,senate without waiting to be asked4 ,he has assured the country that he is a civil service reformer2 that no man is to be turned out because he is a ,republican1 and no man appointed because he is a ,democrat4 ,now1 the ,senate has given the ,president an opportunity to prove that he has acted as he has talked4 ,if the ,president feels that he is bound to carry out the civil-service law1 ought not the ,senate to feel in the same way8 ,is it not the duty of the ,senate to see to it that the ,president does not1 with its advice and consent1 violate the civil service law8 ,is the consent of the ,senate a mere matter of form8 ,in these appointments the ,president is not independent of or above the ,senate2 they are equal1 and each has the right to be honor bright with the other1 at least4 ,as long as this foolish law is unrepealed it must be carried out4 ,neither party is in favor of civil service reform1 and never was4 ,the ,republican party did not carry it out1 and did not intend to4 ,the ,president has the right to nominate4 ,under the law as it is now1 when the ,president wants to appoint a clerk1 or when one of his secretaries wants one1 four names are sent1 and from these four names a choice has to be made4 ,this is clearly an invasion of the rights of the ,executive4 ,if they have the right to compel the ,president to choose from four1 why not from three1 or two8 ,why not name the one1 and have done with it8 ,the law is worse than unconstitutional--it is absurd4 ,but in this contest the ,senate1 in my judgment1 is right4 ,in my opinion1 by the time ,cleveland goes out most of the offices will be filled with ,democrats4 ,if the ,republicans succeed next time1 ,i know1 and everybody knows1 that they will never rest easy until they get the ,democrats out4 ,they will shout offensive partisanship4 ,the truth is1 the theory is wrong4 ,every citizen should take an interest in politics4 ,a good man should not agree to keep silent just for the sake of an office4 ,a man owes his best thoughts to his country4 ,if he ought to defend his country in time of war1 and under certain circumstances give his life for it1 can we say that in time of peace he is under no obligation to discharge what he believes to be a duty1 if he happens to hold an office8 ,must he sell his birthright for the sake of being a doorkeeper8 ,the whole doctrine is absurd and never will be carried out4 ,question4 ,what do you think as to the presidential race8 ,answer4 ,that is a good way off4 ,i think the people can hardly be roused to enthusiasm by the old names4 ,our party must take another step forward4 ,we cannot live on what we have done2 we must seek power for the sake1 not of power1 but for the accomplishment of a purpose4 ,we must reform the tariff4 ,we must settle the question of silver4 ,we must have sense enough to know what the country needs1 and courage enough to tell it4 ,by reforming the tariff1 ,i mean protect that and that only that needs protection-- laws for the country and not for the few4 ,we want honest money2 we want a dollar's worth of gold in a silver dollar1 and a dollar's worth of silver in a gold dollar4 ,we want to make them of equal value4 ,bi-metallism does not mean that eighty cents' worth of silver is worth one hundred in gold4 ,the ,republican party must get back its conscience and be guided by it in deciding the questions that arise4 ,great questions are pressing for solution4 ,thousands of working people are in want4 ,business is depressed4 ,the future is filled with clouds4 ,what does the ,republican party propose8 ,must we wait for mobs to inaugurate reform8 ,must we depend on police or statesmen8 ,should we wait and crush by brute force or should we prevent8 ,the toilers demand that eight hours should constitute a day's work4 ,upon this question what does our party say8 ,labor saving machines ought to lighten the burdens of the laborers4 ,it will not do to say over production and keep on inventing machines and refuse to shorten the hours4 ,what does our party say8 ,the rich can take care of themselves if the mob will let them alone1 and there will be no mob if there is no widespread want4 ,hunger is a communist4 ,the next candidate of the ,republican party must be big enough and courageous enough to answer these questions4 ,if we find that kind of a candidate we shall succeed--if we do not1 we ought not4 --,chicago ,inter-,ocean1 ,february1 #ahhf4 ,,atheism ,,and ,,citizenship4 ,question4 ,have you noticed the decision of ,mr4 ,nathaniel ,jarvis1 ,jr41 clerk of the ,naturalization ,bureau of the ,court of ,common ,pleas1 that an ,atheist cannot become a citizen8 ,answer4 ,yes1 but ,i do not think it necessary for a man to be a theist in order to become or to remain a citizen of this country4 ,the various laws1 from #agij up to #ahbh1 provided that the person wishing to be naturalized might make oath or affirmation4 ,the first exception you will find in the ,revised ,statutes of the ,united ,states passed in #ahgc-gd1 section #b1afe1 as follows3--,an alien may be admitted to become a citizen of the ,united ,states in the following manner1 and not otherwise3--,first1 he shall declare on oath1 before a ,circuit or ,district ,court of the ,united ,states1 etc4 ,i suppose ,mr4 ,jarvis felt it to be his duty to comply with this section4 ,in this section there is nothing about affirmation --only the word oath is used--and ,mr4 ,jarvis came to the conclusion that an ,atheist could not take an oath1 and1 therefore1 could not declare his intention legally to become a citizen of the ,united ,states4 ,undoubtedly ,mr4 ,jarvis felt it his duty to stand by the law and to see to it that nobody should become a citizen of this country who had not a well defined belief in the existence of a being that he could not define and that no man has ever been able to define4 ,in other words1 that he should be perfectly convinced that there is a being without body1 parts or passions1 who presides over the destinies of this world1 and more especially those of ,new ,york in and about that part known as ,city ,hall ,park4 ,question4 ,was not ,mr4 ,jarvis right in standing by the law8 ,answer4 ,if ,mr4 ,jarvis is right1 neither ,humboldt nor ,darwin could have become a citizen of the ,united ,states4 ,wagner1 the greatest of musicians1 not being able to take an oath1 would have been left an alien4 ,under this ruling ,haeckel1 ,spencer and ,tyndall would be denied citizenship--that is to say1 the six greatest men produced by the human race in the nineteenth century1 were and are unfit to be citizens of the ,united ,states4 ,those who have placed the human race in debt cannot be citizens of the ,republic4 ,on the other hand1 the ignorant wife beater1 the criminal1 the pauper raised in the workhouse1 could take the necessary oath and would be welcomed by ,new ,york with arms outstretched as she would fly4 ,question4 ,you have quoted one statute4 ,is there no other applicable to this case8 ,answer4 ,i am coming to that4 ,if ,mr4 ,jarvis will take the pains to read not only the law of naturalization in section #b1afe of the ,revised ,statutes of the ,united ,states1 but the very first chapter in the book1 ,title ,i41 he will find in the very first section this sentence3 ,the requirements of any 'oath' shall be deemed complied with by making affirmation in official form4 ,this applies to section #b1afe4 ,of course an ,atheist can affirm1 and the statute provides that wherever an oath is required affirmation may be made4 ,question4 ,did you read the recent action of ,judge ,o',gorman1 of the ,superior ,court1 in refusing naturalization papers to an applicant because he had not read the ,constitution of the ,united ,states8 ,answer4 ,i did4 ,the ,united ,states ,constitution is a very important document1 a good1 sound document1 but it is talked about a great deal more than it is read4 ,i'll venture that you may commence at the ,battery to interview merchants and other business men about the ,constitution and you will talk with a hundred before you will find one who has ever read it4 --,new ,york ,herald1 ,august #h1 #ahhf4 ,,the ,,labor ,,question4 ,question4 ,what is your remedy1 ,colonel1 for the labor troubles of the day8 ,answer4 ,one remedy is this3 ,i should like to see the laboring men succeed4 ,i should like to see them have a majority in ,congress and with a ,president of their own4 ,i should like to see this so that they could satisfy themselves how little1 after all1 can be accomplished by legislation4 ,the moment responsibility should touch their shoulders they would become conservative4 ,they would find that making a living in this world is an individual affair1 and that each man must look out for himself4 ,they would soon find that the ,government cannot take care of the people4 ,the people must support the ,government4 ,everything cannot be regulated by law4 ,the factors entering into this problem are substantially infinite and beyond the intellectual grasp of any human being4 ,perhaps nothing in the world will convince the laboring man how little can be accomplished by law until there is opportunity of trying4 ,to discuss the question will do good1 so ,i am in favor of its discussion4 ,to give the workingmen a trial will do good1 so ,i am in favor of giving them a trial4 ,question4 ,but you have not answered my question3 ,i asked you what could be done1 and you have told me what could not be done4 ,now1 is there not some better organization of society that will help in this trouble8 ,answer4 ,undoubtedly4 ,unless humanity is a failure1 society will improve from year to year and from age to age4 ,there will be1 as the years go by1 less want1 less injustice1 and the gifts of nature will be more equally divided1 but there will never come a time when the weak can do as much as the strong1 or when the mentally weak can accomplish as much as the intellectually strong4 ,there will forever be inequality in society2 but1 in my judgment1 the time will come when an honest1 industrious person need not want4 ,in my judgment1 that will come1 not through governmental control1 not through governmental slavery1 not through what is called ,socialism1 but through liberty and through individuality4 ,i can conceive of no greater slavery than to have everything done by the ,government4 ,i want free scope given to individual effort4 ,in time some things that governments have done will be removed4 ,the creation of a nobility1 the giving of vast rights to corporations1 and the bestowment of privileges on the few will be done away with4 ,in other words1 governmental interference will cease and man will be left more to himself4 ,the future will not do away with want by charity1 which generally creates more want than it alleviates1 but by justice and intelligence4 ,shakespeare says1 ,there is no darkness but ignorance1 and it might be added that ignorance is the mother of most suffering4 --,the ,enquirer1 ,cincinnati1 ,ohio1 ,september #cj1 #ahhf4 ,,railroads ,,and ,,politics4 ,question4 ,you are intimately acquainted with the great railroad managers and the great railroad systems1 and what do you think is the great need of the railways to-day8 ,answer4 ,the great need of the railroads to-day is more business1 more cars1 better equipments1 better pay for the men and less gambling in ,wall ,street4 ,question4 ,is it your experience that public men usually ride on passes8 ,answer4 ,yes1 whenever they can get them4 ,passes are for the rich4 ,only those are expected to pay who can scarcely afford it4 ,nothing shortens a journey1 nothing makes the road as smooth1 nothing keeps down the dust and keeps out the smoke like a pass4 ,question4 ,don't you think that the pass system is an injustice --that is1 that ordinary travelers are taxed for the man who rides on a pass8 ,answer4 ,certainly1 those who pay1 pay for those who do not4 ,this is one of the misfortunes of the obscure4 ,it is so with everything4 ,the big fish live on the little ones4 ,question4 ,are not parallel railroads an evil8 ,answer4 ,no1 unless they are too near together4 ,competition does some good and some harm1 but it must exist4 ,all these things must be left to take care of themselves4 ,if the ,government interferes it is at the expense of the manhood and liberty of the people4 ,question4 ,but wouldn't it be better for the people if the railroads were managed by the ,government as is the ,post-,office8 ,answer4 ,no1 everything that individual can do should be left to them4 ,if the ,government takes charge of the people they become weak and helpless4 ,the people should take charge of the ,government4 ,give the folks a chance4 ,question4 ,in the next presidential contest what will be the main issue8 ,answer4 ,the ,maine issue6 ,question4 ,would you again refuse to take the stump for ,mr4 ,blaine if he should be renominated1 and if so1 why8 ,answer4 ,i do not expect to take the stump for anybody4 ,mr4 ,blaine is probably a candidate1 and if he is nominated there will be plenty of people on the stump--or fence--or up a tree or somewhere in the woods4 ,question4 ,what are the most glaring mistakes of ,cleveland's administration8 ,answer4 ,first1 accepting the nomination4 ,second1 taking the oath of office4 ,third1 not resigning4 --,times ,star1 ,cincinnati1 ,september #cj1 #ahhf4 ,,prohibition4 ,question4 ,how much importance do you attach to the present prohibition movement8 ,answer4 ,no particular importance4 ,i am opposed to prohibition and always have been1 and hope always to be4 ,i do not want the ,legislature to interfere in these matters4 ,i do not believe that the people can be made temperate by law4 ,men and women are not made great and good by the law4 ,there is no good in the world that cannot be abused4 ,prohibition fills the world with spies and tattlers1 and1 besides that1 where a majority of the people are not in favor of it the law will not be enforced2 and where a majority of the people are in favor of it there is not much need of the law4 ,where a majority are against it1 juries will violate their oath1 and witnesses will get around the truth1 and the result is demoralization4 ,take wine and malt liquors out of the world and we shall lose a vast deal of good fellowship2 the world would lose more than it would gain4 ,there is a certain sociability about wine that ,i should hate to have taken from the earth4 ,strong liquors the folks had better let alone4 ,if prohibition succeeds1 and wines and malt liquors go1 the next thing will be to take tobacco away1 and the next thing all other pleasures1 until prayer meetings will be the only places of enjoyment4 ,question4 ,do you care to say who your choice is for ,republican nominee for ,president in #ahhh8 ,answer4 ,i now promise that ,i will answer this question either in ,may or ,june1 #ahhh4 ,at present my choice is not fixed1 and is liable to change at any moment1 and ,i need to leave it free1 so that it can change from time to time as the circumstances change4 ,i will1 however1 tell you privately that ,i think it will probably be a new man1 somebody on whom the ,republicans can unite4 ,i have made a good many inquiries myself to find out who this man is to be1 but in every instance the answer has been determined by the location in which the gentleman lived who gave the answer4 ,let us wait4 ,question4 ,do you think the ,republican party should take a decided stand on the temperance issue8 ,answer4 ,i do2 and that decided stand should be that temperance is an individual question1 something with which the ,state and ,nation have nothing to do4 ,temperance is a thing that the law cannot control4 ,you might as well try to control music1 painting1 sculpture1 or metaphysics1 as the question of temperance4 ,as life becomes more valuable1 people will learn to take better care of it4 ,there is something more to be desired even than temperance1 and that is liberty4 ,i do not believe in putting out the sun because weeds grow4 ,i should rather have some weeds than go without wheat and corn4 ,the ,republican party should represent liberty and individuality2 it should keep abreast of the real spirit of the age2 the ,republican party ought to be intelligent enough to know that progress has been marked not by the enactment of new laws1 but by the repeal of old ones4 --,evening ,traveler1 ,boston1 ,october1 #ahhf4 ,,henry ,,george ,,and ,,labor4 ,question4 ,it is said1 ,colonel ,ingersoll1 that you are for ,henry ,george8 ,answer4 ,of course2 ,i think it the duty of the ,republicans to defeat the ,democracy--a solemn duty--and ,i believe that they have a chance to elect ,george2 that is to say1 an opportunity to take ,new ,york from their old enemy4 ,if the ,republicans stand by ,george he will succeed4 ,all the ,democratic factions are going to unite to beat the workingmen4 ,what a picture6 ,now is the time for the ,republicans to show that all their sympathies are not given to bankers1 corporations and millionaires4 ,they were on the side of the slave--they gave liberty to millions4 ,let them take another step and extend their hands to the sons of toil4 ,my heart beats with those who bear the burdens of this poor world4 ,question4 ,do you not think that capital is entitled to protection8 ,answer4 ,i am in favor of accomplishing all reforms in a legal and orderly way1 and ,i want the laboring people of this country to appeal to the ballot4 ,all classes and all interests must be content to abide the result4 ,i want the laboring people to show that they are intelligent enough to stand by each other4 ,henry ,george is their natural leader4 ,let them be true to themselves by being true to him4 ,the great questions between capital and labor must be settled peaceably4 ,there is no excuse for violence1 and no excuse for contempt and scorn4 ,no country can be prosperous while the workers want and the idlers waste4 ,those who do the most should have the most4 ,there is no civilized country1 so far as ,i know1 but ,i believe there will be1 and ,i want to hasten they day when the map of the world will give the boundaries of that blessed land4 ,question4 ,do you agree with ,george's principles8 ,do you believe in socialism8 ,answer4 ,i do not understand that ,george is a ,socialist4 ,he is on the side of those that work--so am ,i4 ,he wants to help those that need help--so do ,i4 ,the rich can take care of themselves4 ,i shed no tears over the miseries of capital4 ,i think of the men in mines and factories1 in huts1 hovels and cellars2 of the poor sewing women2 of the poor1 the hungry and the despairing4 ,the world must be made better through intelligence4 ,i do not go with the destroyers1 with those that hate the successful1 that hate the generous1 simply because they are rich4 ,wealth is the surplus produced by labor1 and the wealth of the world should keep the world from want4 --,new ,york ,herald1 ,october #ac1 #ahhf4 ,,labor ,,question ,,and ,,socialism4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,henry ,george for mayor8 ,answer4 ,several objections have been urged1 not to what ,mr4 ,george has done1 but to what ,mr4 ,george has thought1 and he is the only candidate up to this time against whom a charge of this character could be made4 ,among other things1 he seems to have entertained an idea to the effect that a few men should not own the entire earth2 that a child coming into the world has a right to standing room1 and that before he walks1 his mother has a right to standing room while she holds him4 ,he insists that if it were possible to bottle the air1 and sell it as we do mineral water1 it would be hardly fair for the capitalists of the world to embark in such a speculation1 especially where millions were allowed to die simply because they were not able to buy breath at pool prices4 ,mr4 ,george seems to think that the time will come when capital will be intelligent enough and civilized enough to take care of itself4 ,he has a dream that poverty and crime and all the evils that go hand in hand with partial famine1 with lack of labor1 and all the diseases born of living in huts and cellars1 born of poor food and poor clothing and of bad habits1 will disappear1 and that the world will be really fit to live in4 ,he goes so far as to insist that men ought to have more than twenty-three or twenty-four dollars a month for digging coal1 and that they ought not to be compelled to spend that money in the store or saloon of the proprietor of the mine4 ,he has also stated on several occasions that a man ought not to drive a street car for sixteen or eighteen hours a day--that even a street-car driver ought to have the privilege now and then of seeing his wife1 or at least one of the children1 awake4 ,and he has gone so far as to say that a letter-carrier ought not to work longer in each day for the ,united ,states than he would for a civilized individual4 ,to people that imagine that this world is already perfection2 that the condition of no one should be bettered except their own1 these ideas seem dangerous4 ,a man who has already amassed a million1 and who has no fear for the future1 and who says3 ,i will employ the cheapest labor and make men work as long as they can possibly endure the toil1 will regard ,mr4 ,george as an impractical man4 ,it is very probable that all of us will be dead before all the theories of ,mr4 ,george are put in practice4 ,some of them1 however1 may at some time benefit mankind2 and so far as ,i am concerned1 ,i am willing to help hasten the day1 although it may not come while ,i live4 ,i do not know that ,i agree with many of the theories of ,mr4 ,george4 ,i know that ,i do not agree with some of them4 ,but there is one thing in which ,i do agree with him1 and that is1 in his effort to benefit the human race1 in his effort to do away with some of the evils that now afflict mankind4 ,i sympathize with him in his endeavor to shorten the hours of labor1 to increase the well- being of laboring men1 to give them better houses1 better food1 and in every way to lighten the burdens that now bear upon their bowed backs4 ,it may be that very little can be done by law1 except to see that they are not absolutely abused2 to see that the mines in which they work are supplied with air and with means of escape in time of danger2 to prevent the deforming of children by forcing upon them the labor of men2 to shorten the hours of toil1 and to give all laborers certain liens1 above all other claims1 for their work4 ,it is easy to see that in this direction something may be done by law4 ,question4 ,colonel ,ingersoll1 are you a ,socialist8 ,answer4 ,i am an ,individualist instead of a ,socialist4 ,i am a believer in individuality and in each individual taking care of himself1 and ,i want the ,government to do just as little as it can consistently with the safety of the nation1 and ,i want as little law as possible--only as much as will protect life1 reputation and property by punishing criminals and by enforcing honest contracts4 ,but if a government gives privileges to a few1 the few must not oppress the many4 ,the ,government has no right to bestow any privilege upon any man or upon any corporation1 except for the public good4 ,that which is a special privilege to the few1 should be a special benefit to the many4 ,and whenever the privileged few abuse the privilege so that it becomes a curse to the many1 the privilege1 whatever it is1 should be withdrawn4 ,i do not pretend to know enough to suggest a remedy for all the evils of society4 ,i doubt if one human mind could take into consideration the almost infinite number of factors entering into such a problem4 ,and this fact that no one knows1 is the excuse for trying4 ,while ,i may not believe that a certain theory will work1 still1 if ,i feel sure it will do no harm1 ,i am willing to see it tried4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,mr4 ,george would make a good mayor8 ,answer4 ,i presume he would4 ,he is a thoughtful1 prudent man4 ,his reputation for honesty has never1 so far as ,i know1 been called in question4 ,it certainly does not take a genius to be mayor of ,new ,york4 ,if so1 there have been some years when there was hardly a mayor4 ,i take it that a clear-headed1 honest man1 whose only object is to do his duty1 and with courage enough to stand by his conscience1 would make a good mayor of ,new ,york or of any other city4 ,question4 ,are you in sympathy with the workingmen and their objects8 ,answer4 ,i am in sympathy with laboring men of all kinds1 whether they labor with hand or brain4 ,the ,knights of ,labor1 ,i believe1 do not allow a lawyer to become a member4 ,i am somewhat wider in my sympathies4 ,no men in the world struggle more heroically2 no men in the world have suffered more1 or carried a heavier cross1 or worn a sharper crown of thorns1 than those that have produced what we call the literature of our race4 ,so my sympathies extend all the way from hod-carriers to sculptors2 from well-diggers to astronomers4 ,if the objects of the laboring men are to improve their condition without injuring others2 to have homes and firesides1 and wives and children2 plenty to eat1 good clothes to wear2 to develop their minds1 to educate their children--in short1 to become prosperous and civilized1 ,i sympathize with them1 and hope they will succeed4 ,i have not the slightest sympathy with those that wish to accomplish all these objects through brute force4 ,a ,nihilist may be forgiven in ,russia--may even be praised in ,russia2 a ,socialist may be forgiven in ,germany2 and certainly a ,home-ruler can be pardoned in ,ireland1 but in the ,united ,states there is no place for ,anarchist1 ,socialist or ,dynamiter4 ,in this country the political power has been fairly divided4 ,poverty has just as many votes as wealth4 ,no man can be so poor as not to have a ballot2 no man is rich enough to have two2 and no man can buy another vote1 unless somebody is mean enough and contemptible enough to sell2 and if he does sell his vote1 he never should complain about the laws or their administration4 ,so the foolish and the wise are on an equality1 and the political power of this country is divided so that each man is a sovereign4 ,now1 the laboring people are largely in the majority in this country4 ,if there are any laws oppressing them1 they should have them repealed4 ,i want the laboring people--and by the word laboring now1 ,i include only the men that they include by that word--to unite2 ,i want them to show that they have the intelligence to act together1 and sense enough to vote for a friend4 ,i want them to convince both the other great parties that they cannot be purchased4 ,this will be an immense step in the right direction4 ,i have sometimes thought that ,i should like to see the laboring men in power1 so that they would realize how little1 after all1 can be done by law4 ,all that any man should ask1 so far as the ,government is concerned1 is a fair chance to compete with his neighbors4 ,personally1 ,i am for the abolition of all special privileges that are not for the general good4 ,my principal hope of the future is the civilization of my race2 the development not only of the brain1 but of the heart4 ,i believe the time will come when we shall stop raising failures1 when we shall know something of the laws governing human beings4 ,i believe the time will come when we shall not produce deformed persons1 natural criminals4 ,in other words1 ,i think the world is going to grow better and better4 ,this may not happen to this nation or to what we call our race1 but it may happen to some other race1 and all that we do in the right direction hastens that day and that race4 ,question4 ,do you think that the old parties are about to die8 ,answer4 ,it is very hard to say4 ,the country is not old enough for tables of mortality to have been calculated upon parties4 ,i suppose a party1 like anything else1 has a period of youth1 of manhood and decay4 ,the ,democratic party is not dead4 ,some men grow physically strong as they grow mentally weak4 ,the ,democratic party lived out of office1 and in disgrace1 for twenty-five years1 and lived to elect a ,president4 ,if the ,democratic party could live on disgrace for twenty-five years it now looks as though the ,republican party1 on the memory of its glory and of its wonderful and unparalleled achievements1 might manage to creep along for a few years more4 --,new ,york ,world1 ,october #bf1 #ahhf4 ,,henry ,,george ,,and ,,socialism4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the result of the election8 ,answer4 ,i find many dead on the field whose faces ,i recognize4 ,i see that ,morrison has taken a horizontal position4 ,free trade seems to have received an exceedingly black eye4 ,carlisle1 in my judgment1 one of the very best men in ,congress1 has been defeated simply because he is a free trader1 and ,i suppose you can account for ,hurd's defeat in the same way4 ,the people believe in protection although they generally admit that the tariff ought to be reformed4 ,i believe in protecting infant industries1 but ,i do not believe in rocking the cradle when the infant is seven feet high and wears number twelve boots4 ,question4 ,do you sympathize with the ,socialists1 or do you think that the success of ,george would promote socialism8 ,answer4 ,i have said frequently that if ,i lived in ,russia ,i should in all probability be a ,nihilist4 ,i can conceive of no government that would not be as good as that of ,russia1 and ,i would consider no government far preferable to that government4 ,any possible state of anarchy is better than organized crime1 because in the chaos of anarchy justice may be done by accident1 but in a government organized for the perpetuation of slavery1 and for the purpose of crushing out of the human brain every noble thought1 justice does not live4 ,in ,germany ,i would probably be a ,socialist--to this extent1 that ,i would want the political power honestly divided among the people4 ,i can conceive of no circumstance in which ,i could support ,bismarck4 ,i regard ,bismarck as a projection of the ,middle ,ages1 as a shadow that has been thrown across the sunlight of modern civilization1 and in that shadow grow all the bloodless crimes4 ,now1 in ,ireland1 of course1 ,i believe in home rule4 ,in this country ,i am an ,individualist4 ,the political power here is equally divided4 ,poverty and wealth have the same power at the ballot-box4 ,intelligence and ignorance are on an equality here1 simply because all men have a certain interest in the government where they live4 ,i hate above all other things the tyranny of a government4 ,i do not want a government to send a policeman along with me to keep me from buying eleven eggs for a dozen4 ,i will take care of myself4 ,i want the people to do everything they can do1 and the ,government to keep its hands off1 because if the ,government attends to all these matters the people lose manhood1 and in a little while become serfs1 and there will arise some strong mind and some powerful hand that will reduce them to actual slavery4 ,so ,i am in favor or personal liberty to the largest extent4 ,whenever the ,government grants privileges to the few1 these privileges should be for the benefit of the many1 and when they cease to be for the benefit of the many1 they should be taken from the few and used by the government itself for the benefit of the whole people4 ,and ,i want to see in this country the ,government so administered that justice will be done to all as nearly as human institutions can produce such a result4 ,now1 ,i understand that in any state of society there will be failures4 ,we have failures among the working people4 ,we have had some failures in ,congress4 ,i will not mention the names1 because your space is limited4 ,there have been failures in the pulpit1 at the bar2 in fact1 in every pursuit of life you will presume we shall have failures with us for a great while2 at least until the establishment of the religion of the body1 when we shall cease to produce failures2 and ,i have faith enough in the human race to believe that that time will come1 but ,i do not expect it during my life4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the income tax as a step toward the accomplishment of what you desire8 ,answer4 ,there are some objections to an income tax4 ,first1 the espionage that it produces on the part of the ,government4 ,second1 the amount of perjury that it annually produces4 ,men hate to have their business inquired into if they are not doing well4 ,they often pay a very large tax to make their creditors think they are prosperous4 ,others by covering up1 avoid the tax4 ,but ,i will say this with regard to taxation3 ,the great desideratum is stability4 ,if we tax only the land1 and that were the only tax1 in a little while every other thing1 and the value of every other thing1 would adjust itself in relation to that tax1 and perfect justice would be the result4 ,that is to say1 if it were stable long enough the burden would finally fall upon the right backs in every department4 ,the trouble with taxation is that it is continually changing--not waiting for the adjustment that will naturally follow provided it is stable4 ,i think the end1 so far as land is concerned1 could be reached by cumulative taxation--that is to say1 a man with a certain amount of land paying a very small per cent41 with more land1 and increased per cent41 and let that per cent4 increase rapidly enough so that no man could afford to hold land that he did not have a use for4 ,so ,i believe in cumulative taxation in regard to any kind of wealth4 ,let a man worth ten million dollars pay a greater per cent4 than one worth one hundred thousand1 because he is able to pay it4 ,the other day a man was talking to me about having the dead pay the expenses of the ,government2 that whenever a man died worth say five million dollars1 one million should go to the ,government2 that if he died worth ten million dollars1 three millions should go to the ,government2 if he died worth twenty million dollars1 eight million should go to the ,government1 and so on4 ,he said that in this way the expenses of the ,government could be borne by the dead4 ,i should be in favor of cumulative taxation upon legacies-- the greater the legacy1 the greater the per cent4 of taxation4 ,but1 of course1 ,i am not foolish enough to suppose that ,i understand these questions4 ,i am giving you a few guesses4 ,my only desire is to guess right4 ,i want to see the people of this world live for this world1 and ,i hope the time will come when a civilized man will understand that he cannot be perfectly happy while anybody else is miserable2 that a perfectly civilized man could not enjoy a dinner knowing that others were starving2 that he could not enjoy the richest robes if he knew that some of his fellow-men in rags and tatters were shivering in the blast4 ,in other words1 ,i want to carry out the idea there that ,i have so frequently uttered with regard to the other world2 that is1 that no gentleman angel could be perfectly happy knowing that somebody else was in hell4 ,question4 ,what are the chances for the ,republican party in #ahhh8 ,answer4 ,if it will sympathize with the toilers1 as it did with the slaves2 if it will side with the needy2 if it will only take the right side it will elect the next ,president4 ,the poor should not resort to violence2 the rich should appeal to the intelligence of the working people4 ,these questions cannot be settled by envy and scorn4 ,the motto of both parties should be3 ,come1 let us reason together4 ,the ,republican party was the grandest organization that ever existed4 ,it was brave1 intelligent and just4 ,it sincerely loved the right4 ,a certificate of membership was a patent of nobility4 ,if it will only stand by the right again1 its victorious banner will float over all the intelligent sons of toil4 --,the ,times1 ,chicago1 ,illinois1 ,november #d1 #ahhf4 ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,rev4 ,b4 ,f4 ,,morse499 99 ,at the usual weekly meeting of the ,baptist ministers at the ,publication ,rooms yesterday1 the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,b4 ,f4 ,morse read an essay on ,christianity vs4 ,materialism4 ,his contention was that all nature showed that design1 not evolution1 was its origin4 ,in his concluding remarks ,dr4 ,morse said that he knew from unquestionable authority1 that ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll did not believe what he uttered in his lectures1 and that to get out of a financial embarrassment he looked around for a money making scheme that could be put into immediate execution4 ,to lecture against ,christianity was the most rapid way of giving him the needed cash and1 what was quite as acceptable to him1 at the same time1 notoriety4 ,this aquatic or web-footed theologian who expects to go to heaven by diving is not worth answering4 ,nothing can be more idiotic than to answer an argument by saying he who makes it does not believe it4 ,belief has nothing to do with the cogency or worth of an argument4 ,there is another thing4 ,this man1 or rather this minister1 says that ,i attacked ,christianity simply to make money4 ,is it possible that1 after preachers have had the field for eighteen hundred years1 the way to make money is to attack the clergy8 ,is this intended as a slander against me or the ministers8 ,the trouble is that my arguments cannot be answered4 ,all the preachers in the world cannot prove that slavery is better than liberty4 ,they cannot show that all have not an equal right to think4 ,they cannot show that all have not an equal right to express their thoughts4 ,they cannot show that a decent ,god will punish a decent man for making the best guess he can4 ,this is all there is about it4 --,the ,herald1 ,new ,york1 ,december #ad1 #ahhf4 ,,ingersoll ,,on ,mc,g,l,y,n,n4 ,the attitude of the ,roman ,catholic ,church in ,dr4 ,mc,glynn's case is consistent with the history and constitution of the ,catholic ,church --perfectly consistent with its ends1 its objects1 and its means-- and just as perfectly inconsistent with intellectual liberty and the real civilization of the human race4 ,when a man becomes a ,catholic priest1 he has been convinced that he ought not to think for himself upon religious questions4 ,he has become convinced that the church is the only teacher--that he has a right to think only to enforce its teachings4 ,from that moment he is a moral machine4 ,the chief engineer resides at ,rome1 and he gives his orders through certain assistant engineers until the one is reached who turns the crank1 and the machine has nothing to do one way or the other4 ,this machine is paid for giving up his liberty by having machines under him who have also given up theirs4 ,while somebody else turns his crank1 he has the pleasure of turning a crank belonging to somebody below him4 ,of course1 the ,catholic ,church is supposed to be the only perfect institution on earth4 ,all others are not only imperfect1 but unnecessary4 ,all others have been made either by man1 or by the ,devil1 or by a partnership1 and consequently cannot be depended upon for the civilization of man4 ,the ,catholic ,church gets its power directly from ,god1 and is the only institution now in the world founded by ,god4 ,there was never any other1 so far as ,i know1 except polygamy and slavery and a crude kind of monarchy1 and they have been1 for the most part1 abolished4 ,the ,catholic ,church must be true to itself4 ,it must claim everything1 and get what it can4 ,it alone is infallible4 ,it alone has all the wisdom of this world4 ,it alone has the right to exist4 ,all other interests are secondary4 ,to be a ,catholic is of the first importance4 ,human liberty is nothing4 ,wealth1 position1 food1 clothing1 reputation1 happiness--all these are less than worthless compared with what the ,catholic ,church promises to the man who will throw all these away4 ,a priest must preach what his bishop tells him4 ,a bishop must preach what his archbishop tells him4 ,the pope must preach what he says ,god tells him4 ,dr4 ,mc,glynn cannot make a compromise with the ,catholic ,church4 ,it never compromises when it is in the majority4 ,i do not mean by this that the ,catholic ,church is worse than any other4 ,all are alike in this regard4 ,every sect1 no matter how insignificant2 every church1 no matter how powerful1 asks precisely the same thing from every member--that is to say1 a surrender of intellectual freedom4 ,the ,catholic ,church wants the same as the ,baptist1 the ,presbyterian1 and the ,methodist--it wants the whole earth4 ,it is ambitious to be the one supreme power4 ,it hopes to see the world upon its knees1 with all its tongues thrust out for wafers4 ,it has the arrogance of humility and the ferocity of universal forgiveness4 ,in this respect it resembles every other sect4 ,every religion is a system of slavery4 ,of course1 the religionists say that they do not believe in persecution2 that they do not believe in burning and hanging and whipping or loading with chains a man simply because he is an ,infidel4 ,they are willing to leave all this with ,god1 knowing that a being of infinite goodness will inflict all these horrors and tortures upon an honest man who differs with the church4 ,in case ,dr4 ,mc,glynn is deprived of his priestly functions1 it is hard to say what effect it will have upon his church and the labor party in the country4 ,so long as a man believes that a church has eternal joy in store for him1 so long as he believes that a church holds within its hand the keys of heaven and hell1 it will be hard to make him trade off the hope of everlasting happiness for a few good clothes and a little good food and higher wages here4 ,he finally thinks that1 after all1 he had better work for less and go a little hungry1 and be an angel forever4 ,i hope1 however1 that a good many people who have been supporting the ,catholic ,church by giving tithes of the wages of weariness will see1 and clearly see1 that ,catholicism is not their friend2 that the church cannot and will not support them2 that1 on the contrary1 they must support the church4 ,i hope they will see that all the prayers have to be paid for1 although not one has ever been answered4 ,i hope they will perceive that the church is on the side of wealth and power1 that the mitre is the friend of the crown1 that the altar is the sworn brother of the throne4 ,i hope they will finally know that the church cares infinitely more for the money of the millionaire than for the souls of the poor4 ,of course1 there are thousands of individual exceptions4 ,i am speaking of the church as an institution1 as a corporation--and when ,i say the church1 ,i include all churches4 ,it is said of corporations in general1 that they have no soul1 and it may truthfully be said of the church that it has less than any other4 ,it lives on alms4 ,it gives nothing for what it gets4 ,it has no sympathy4 ,beggars never weep over the misfortunes of other beggars4 ,nothing could give me more pleasure than to see the ,catholic ,church on the side of human freedom2 nothing more pleasure than to see the ,catholics of the world--those who work and weep and toil-- sensible enough to know that all the money paid for superstition is worse than lost4 ,i wish they could see that the counting of beads1 and the saying of prayers and celebrating of masses1 and all the kneelings and censer-swingings and fastings and bell-ringing1 amount to less than nothing--that all these things tend only to the degradation of mankind4 ,it is hard1 ,i know1 to find an antidote for a poison that was mingled with a mother's milk4 ,the laboring masses1 so far as the ,catholics are concerned1 are filled with awe and wonder and fear about the church4 ,this fear began to grow while they were being rocked in their cradles1 and they still imagine that the church has some mysterious power2 that it is in direct communication with some infinite personality that could1 if it desired1 strike then dead1 or damn their souls forever4 ,persons who have no such belief1 who care nothing for popes or priests or churches or heavens or hells or devils or gods1 have very little idea of the power of fear4 ,the old dogmas filled the brain with strange monsters4 ,the soul of the orthodox ,christian gropes and wanders and crawls in a kind of dungeon1 where the strained eyes see fearful shapes1 and the frightened flesh shrinks from the touch of serpents4 ,the good part of ,christianity--that is to say1 kindness1 morality --will never go down4 ,the cruel part ought to go down4 ,and by the cruel part ,i mean the doctrine of eternal punishment--of allowing the good to suffer for the bad--allowing innocence to pay the debt of guilt4 ,so the foolish part of ,christianity--that is to say1 the miraculous--will go down4 ,the absurd part must perish4 ,but there will be no war about it as there was in ,france4 ,nobody believes enough in the foolish part of ,christianity now to fight for it4 ,nobody believes with intensity enough in miracles to shoulder a musket4 ,there is probably not a ,christian in ,new ,york willing to fight for any story1 no matter if the story is so old that it is covered with moss4 ,no mentally brave and intelligent man believes in miracles1 and no intelligent man cares whether there was a miracle or not1 for the reason that every intelligent man knows that the miraculous has no possible connection with the moral4 ,thou shalt not steal1 is just as good a commandment if it should turn out that the flood was a drouth4 ,thou shalt not murder1 is a good and just and righteous law1 and whether any particular miracle was ever performed or not has nothing to do with the case4 ,there is no possible relation between these things4 ,i am on the side not only of the physically oppressed1 but of the mentally oppressed4 ,i hate those who put lashes on the body1 and ,i despise those who put the soul in chains4 ,in other words1 ,i am in favor of liberty4 ,i do not wish that any man should be the slave of his fellow-men1 or that the human race should be the slaves of any god1 real or imaginary4 ,man has the right to think for himself1 to work for himself1 to take care of himself1 to get bread for himself1 to get a home for himself4 ,he has a right to his own opinion about ,god1 and heaven and hell2 the right to learn any art or mystery or trade2 the right to work for whom he will1 for what he will1 and when he will4 ,the world belongs to the human race4 ,there is to be no war in this country on religious opinions1 except a war of words--a conflict of thoughts1 of facts2 and in that conflict the hosts of superstition will go down4 ,they may not be defeated to-day1 or to-morrow1 or next year1 or during this century1 but they are growing weaker day by day4 ,this priest1 ,mc,glynn1 has the courage to stand up against the propaganda4 ,what would have been his fate a few years ago8 ,what would have happened to him in ,spain1 in ,portugal1 in ,italy--in any other country that was ,catholic--only a few years ago8 ,yet he stands here in ,new ,york1 he refuses to obey ,god's vicegerent2 he freely gives his mind to an archbishop2 he holds the holy ,inquisition in contempt4 ,he has done a great thing4 ,he is undoubtedly an honest man4 ,he never should have been a ,catholic4 ,he has no business in that church4 ,he has ideas of his own--theories1 and seems to be governed by principles4 ,the ,catholic ,church is not his place4 ,if he remains1 he must submit1 he must kneel in the humility of abjectness2 he must receive on the back of his independence the lashes of the church4 ,if he remains1 he must ask the forgiveness of slaves for having been a man4 ,if he refuses to submit1 the church will not have him4 ,he will be driven to take his choice-- to remain a member1 humiliated1 shunned1 or go out into the great1 free world a citizen of the ,republic1 with the rights1 responsibilities1 and duties of an ,american citizen4 ,i believe that ,dr4 ,mc,glynn is an honest man1 and that he really believes in the land theories of ,mr4 ,george4 ,i have no confidence in his theories1 but ,i have confidence that he is actuated by the best and noblest motives4 ,question4 ,are you to go on the lecture platform again8 ,answer4 ,i expect to after a while4 ,i am now waiting for the church to catch up4 ,i got so far ahead that ,i began almost to sympathize with the clergy4 ,they looked so helpless and talked in such a weak1 wandering1 and wobbling kind of way that ,i felt as though ,i had been cruel4 ,from the papers ,i see that they are busy trying to find out who the wife of ,cain was4 ,i see that the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,robinson1 of ,new ,york1 is now wrestling with that problem4 ,he begins to be in doubt whether ,adam was the first man1 whether ,eve was the first woman2 suspects that there were other races1 and that ,cain did not marry his sister1 but somebody else's sister1 and that the somebody else was not ,cain's brother4 ,one can hardly over- estimate the importance of these questions1 they have such a direct bearing on the progress of the world4 ,if it should turn out that ,adam was the first man1 or that he was not the first man1 something might happen--,i am not prepared to say what1 but it might4 ,it is a curious kind of a spectacle to see a few hundred people paying a few thousand dollars a year for the purpose of hearing these great problems discussed3 ,was ,adam the first man8 ,who was ,cain's wife8 ,has anyone seen a map of the land of ,nod8 ,where are the four rivers that ran murmuring through the groves of ,paradise8 ,who was the snake8 ,how did he walk8 ,what language did he speak8 ,this turns a church into a kind of nursery1 makes a cradle of each pew1 and gives to each member a rattle with which he can amuse what he calls his mind4 ,the great theologians of ,andover--the gentlemen who wear the brass collars furnished by the dead founder--have been disputing among themselves as to what is to become of the heathen who fortunately died before meeting any missionary from that institution4 ,one can almost afford to be damned hereafter for the sake of avoiding the dogmas of ,andover here4 ,nothing more absurd and childish has ever happened--not in the intellectual1 but in the theological world4 ,there is no need of the ,freethinkers saying anything at present4 ,the work is being done by the church members themselves4 ,they are beginning to ask questions of the clergy4 ,they are getting tired of the old ideas--tired of the consolations of eternal pain--tired of hearing about hell--tired of hearing the ,bible quoted or talked about--tired of the scheme of redemption--tired of the ,trinity1 of the plenary inspiration of the barbarous records of a barbarous people--tired of the patriarchs and prophets--tired of ,daniel and the goats with three horns1 and the image with the clay feet1 and the little stone that rolled down the hill--tired of the mud man and the rib woman--tired of the flood of ,noah1 of the astronomy of ,joshua1 the geology of ,moses--tired of ,kings and ,chronicles and ,lamentations--tired of the lachrymose ,jeremiah--tired of the monstrous1 the malicious1 and the miraculous4 ,in short1 they are beginning to think4 ,they have bowed their necks to the yoke of ignorance and fear and impudence and superstition1 until they are weary4 ,they long to be free4 ,they are tired of the services-- tired of the meaningless prayers--tired of hearing each other say1 ,hear us1 good ,lord--tired of the texts1 tired of the sermons1 tired of the lies about spontaneous combustion as a punishment for blasphemy1 tired of the bells1 and they long to hear the doxology of superstition4 ,they long to have ,common ,sense lift its hands in benediction and dismiss the congregation4 --,brooklyn ,citizen1 ,april1 #ahhf4 ,,trial ,,of ,,the ,,chicago ,,anarchists4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the trial of the ,chicago ,anarchists and their chances for a new trial8 ,answer4 ,i have paid some attention to the evidence and to the rulings of the court1 and ,i have read the opinion of the ,supreme ,court of ,illinois1 in which the conviction is affirmed4 ,of course these men were tried during a period of great excitement--tried when the press demanded their conviction--when it was asserted that society was on the edge of destruction unless these men were hanged4 ,under such circumstances1 it is not easy to have a fair and impartial trial4 ,a judge should either sit beyond the reach of prejudice1 in some calm that storms cannot invade1 or he should be a kind of oak that before any blast he would stand erect4 ,it is hard to find such a place as ,i have suggested and not easy to find such a man4 ,we are all influenced more or less by our surroundings1 by the demands and opinions and feelings and prejudices of our fellow- citizens4 ,there is a personality made up of many individuals known as society4 ,this personality has prejudices like an individual4 ,it often becomes enraged1 acts without the slightest sense1 and repents at its leisure4 ,it is hard to reason with a mob whether organized or disorganized1 whether acting in the name of the law or of simple brute force4 ,but in any case1 where people refuse to be governed by reason1 they become a mob4 ,question4 ,do you not think that these men had a fair trial8 ,answer4 ,i have no doubt that the court endeavored to be fair-- no doubt that ,judge ,gary is a perfectly honest1 upright man1 but ,i think his instructions were wrong4 ,he instructed the jury to the effect that where men have talked in a certain way1 and where the jury believed that the result of such talk might be the commission of a crime1 that such men are responsible for that crime4 ,of course1 there is neither law nor sense in an instruction like this4 ,i hold that it must have been the intention of the man making the remark1 or publishing the article1 or doing the thing--it must have been his intention that the crime should be committed4 ,men differ as to the effect of words1 and a man may say a thing with the best intentions the result of which is a crime1 and he may say a thing with the worst of intentions and the result may not be a crime4 ,the ,supreme ,court of ,illinois seemed to have admitted that the instructions were wrong1 but took the ground that it made no difference with the verdict4 ,this is a dangerous course for the court of last resort to pursue2 neither is it very complimentary to the judge who tried the case1 that his instructions had no effect upon the jury4 ,under the instructions of the court below1 any man who had been arrested with the seven ,anarchists and of whom it could be proved that he had ever said a word in favor of any change in government1 or of other peculiar ideas1 no matter whether he knew of the meeting at the ,haymarket or not1 would have been convicted4 ,i am satisfied that the defendant ,fielden never intended to harm a human being4 ,as a matter of fact1 the evidence shows that he was making a speech in favor of peace at the time of the occurrence4 ,the evidence also shows that he was an exceedingly honest1 industrious1 and a very poor and philanthropic man4 ,question4 ,do you uphold the ,anarchists8 ,answer4 ,certainly not4 ,there is no place in this country for the ,anarchist4 ,the source of power here is the people1 and to attack the political power is to attack the people4 ,if the laws are oppressive1 it is the fault of the oppressed4 ,if the laws touch the poor and leave them without redress1 it is the fault of the poor4 ,they are in a majority4 ,the men who work for their living are the very men who have the power to make every law that is made in the ,united ,states4 ,there is no excuse for any resort to violence in this country4 ,the boycotting by trades unions and by labor organizations is all wrong4 ,let them resort to legal methods and to no other4 ,i have not the slightest sympathy with the methods that have been pursued by ,anarchists1 or by ,socialists1 or by any other class that has resorted to force or intimidation4 ,the ballot-box is the place to assemble4 ,the will of the people can be made known in that way1 and their will can be executed4 ,at the same time1 ,i think ,i understand what has produced the ,anarchist1 the ,socialist1 and the agitator4 ,in the old country1 a laboring man1 poorly clad1 without quite enough to eat1 with a wife in rags1 with a few children asking for bread--this laboring man sees the idle enjoying every luxury of this life2 he sees on the breast of my lady a bonfire of diamonds2 he sees my lord riding in his park2 he sees thousands of people who from the cradle to the grave do no useful act2 add nothing to the intellectual or the physical wealth of the world2 he sees labor living in the tenement house1 in the hut2 idleness and nobility in the mansion and the palace2 the poor man a trespasser everywhere except upon the street1 where he is told to move on1 and in the dusty highways of the country4 ,that man naturally hates the government--the government of the few1 the government that lives on the unpaid labor of the many1 the government that takes the child from the parents1 and puts him in the army to fight the child of another poor man and woman in some other country4 ,these ,anarchists1 these ,socialists1 these agitators1 have been naturally produced4 ,all the things of which ,i have spoken sow in the breast of poverty the seeds of hatred and revolution4 ,these poor men1 hunted by the officers of the law1 cornered1 captured1 imprisoned1 excite the sympathy of other poor men1 and if some are dragged to the gallows and hanged1 or beheaded by the guillotine1 they become saints and martyrs1 and those who sympathize with them feel that they have the power1 and only the power of hatred--the power of riot1 of destruction--the power of the torch1 of revolution1 that is to say1 of chaos and anarchy4 ,the injustice of the higher classes makes the lower criminal4 ,then there is another thing4 ,the misery of the poor excites in many noble breasts sympathy1 and the men who thus sympathize wish to better the condition of their fellows4 ,at first they depend upon reason1 upon calling the attention of the educated and powerful to the miseries of the poor4 ,nothing happens1 no result follows4 ,the ,juggernaut of society moves on1 and the wretches are still crushed beneath the great wheels4 ,these men who are really good at first1 filled with sympathy1 now become indignant--they are malicious1 then destructive and criminal4 ,i do not sympathize with these methods1 but ,i do sympathize with the general object that all good and generous people seek to accomplish--namely1 to better the condition of the human race4 ,only the other day1 in ,boston1 ,i said that we ought to take into consideration the circumstances under which the ,anarchists were reared2 that we ought to know that every man is necessarily produced2 that man is what he is1 not by accident1 but necessity2 that society raises its own criminals--that it plows the soil and cultivates and harvests the crop4 ,and it was telegraphed that ,i had defended anarchy4 ,nothing was ever further from my mind4 ,there is no place1 as ,i said before1 for anarchy in the ,united ,states4 ,in ,russia it is another question2 in ,germany another question4 ,every country that is governed by the one man1 or governed by the few1 is the victim of anarchy4 ,that is anarchy4 ,that is the worst possible form of socialism4 ,the definition of socialism given by its bitterest enemy is1 that idlers wish to live on the labor and on the money of others4 ,is not this definition--a definition given in hatred--a perfect definition of every monarchy and of nearly every government in the world8 ,that is to say3 ,the idle few live on the labor and the money of others4 ,question4 ,will the ,supreme ,court take cognizance of this case and prevent the execution of the judgment8 ,answer4 ,of course it is impossible for me to say4 ,at the same time1 judging from the action of ,justice ,miller in the case of ,the ,people vs4 ,maxwell1 it seems probable that the ,supreme ,court may interfere1 but ,i have not examined the question sufficiently to form an opinion4 ,my feeling about the whole matter is this3 ,that it will not tend to answer the ideas advanced by these men1 to hang them4 ,their execution will excite sympathy among thousands and thousands of people who have never examined and knew nothing of the theories advanced by the ,anarchists1 or the ,socialists1 or other agitators4 ,in my judgment1 supposing the men to be guilty1 it is far better to imprison them4 ,less harm will be done the cause of free government4 ,we are not on the edge of any revolution4 ,no other government is as firmly fixed as ours4 ,no other government has such a broad and splendid foundation4 ,we have nothing to fear4 ,courage and safety can afford to be generous--can afford to act without haste and without the feeling of revenge4 ,so1 for my part1 ,i hope that the sentence may be commuted1 and that these men1 if found guilty at last1 may be imprisoned4 ,this course is1 in my judgment1 the safest to pursue4 ,it may be that ,i am led to this conclusion1 because of my belief that every man does as he must4 ,this belief makes me charitable toward all the world4 ,this belief makes me doubt the wisdom of revenge4 ,this belief1 so far as ,i am concerned1 blots from our language the word punishment4 ,society has a right to protect itself1 and it is the duty of society to reform1 in so far as it may be possible1 any member who has committed what is called a crime4 ,where the criminal cannot be reformed1 and the safety of society can be secured by his imprisonment1 there is no possible excuse for destroying his life4 ,after these six or seven men have been1 in accordance with the forms of law1 strangled to death1 there will be a few pieces of clay1 and about them will gather a few friends1 a few admirers--and these pieces will be buried1 and over the grave will be erected a monument1 and those who were executed as criminals will be regarded by thousands as saints4 ,it is far better for society to have a little mercy4 ,the effect upon the community will be good4 ,if these men are imprisoned1 people will examine their teachings without prejudice4 ,if they are executed1 seen through the tears of pity1 their virtues1 their sufferings1 their heroism1 will be exaggerated2 others may emulate their deeds1 and the gulf between the rich and the poor will be widened--a gulf that may not close until it has devoured the noblest and the best4 --,the ,mail and ,express1 ,new ,york1 ,november #c1 #ahhg4 ,,the ,,stage ,,and ,,the ,,pulpit4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,methodist minister at ,nashville1 ,tenn41 who1 from his pulpit1 denounced the theatrical profession1 without exception1 as vicious1 and of the congregation which passed resolutions condemning ,miss ,emma ,abbott for rising in church and contradicting him1 and of the ,methodist bishop who likened her to a painted courtesan1 and invoked the aid of the law for the protection of public worship against strolling players8 ,answer4 ,the ,methodist minister of whom you speak1 without doubt uttered his real sentiments4 ,the church has always regarded the stage as a rival1 and all its utterances have been as malicious as untrue4 ,it has always felt that the money given to the stage was in some way taken from the pulpit4 ,it is on this principle that the pulpit wishes everything1 except the church1 shut up on ,sunday4 ,it knows that it cannot stand free and open competition4 ,all well-educated ministers know that the ,bible suffers by a comparison with ,shakespeare4 ,they know that there is nothing within the lids of what they call the sacred book that can for one moment stand side by side with ,lear or ,hamlet or ,julius ,caesar or ,antony and ,cleopatra or with any other play written by the immortal man4 ,they know what a poor figure the ,davids and the ,abrahams and the ,jeremiahs and the ,lots1 the ,jonahs1 the ,jobs and the ,noahs cut when on the stage with the great characters of ,shakespeare4 ,for these reasons1 among others1 the pulpit is malicious and hateful when it thinks of the glories of the stage4 ,what minister is there now living who could command the prices commanded by ,edwin ,booth or ,joseph ,jefferson2 and what two clergymen1 by making a combination1 could contend successfully with ,robson and ,crane8 ,how many clergymen would it take to command1 at regular prices1 the audiences that attend the presentation of ,wagner's operas8 ,it is very easy to see why the pulpit attacks the stage4 ,nothing could have been in more wretched taste than for the minister to condemn ,miss ,emma ,abbott for rising in church and defending not only herself1 but other good women who are doing honest work for an honest living4 ,of course1 no minister wishes to be answered2 no minister wishes to have anyone in the congregation call for the proof4 ,a few questions would break up all the theology in the world4 ,ministers can succeed only when congregations keep silent4 ,when superstition succeeds1 doubt must be dumb4 ,the ,methodist bishop who attacked ,miss ,abbott simply repeated the language of several centuries ago4 ,in the laws of ,england actors were described as sturdy vagrants1 and this bishop calls them strolling players4 ,if we only had some strolling preachers like ,garrick1 like ,edwin ,forrest1 or ,booth or ,barrett1 or some crusade sisters like ,mrs4 ,siddons1 ,madam ,ristori1 ,charlotte ,cushman1 or ,madam ,modjeska1 how fortunate the church would be6 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the relative merits of the pulpit and the stage1 preachers and actors8 ,answer4 ,we must remember that the stage presents an ideal life4 ,it is a world controlled by the imagination--a world in which the justice delayed in real life may be done1 and in which that may happen which1 according to the highest ideal1 should happen4 ,it is a world1 for the most part1 in which evil does not succeed1 in which the vicious are foiled1 in which the right1 the honest1 the sincere1 and the good prevail4 ,it cultivates the imagination1 and in this respect is far better than the pulpit4 ,the mission of the pulpit is to narrow and shrivel the human mind4 ,the pulpit denounces the freedom of thought and of expression2 but on the stage the mind is free1 and for thousands of years the poor1 the oppressed1 the enslaved1 have been permitted to witness plays wherein the slave was freed1 wherein the oppressed became the victor1 and where the downtrodden rose supreme4 ,and there is another thing4 ,the stage has always laughed at the spirit of caste4 ,the low-born lass has loved the prince4 ,all human distinctions in this ideal world have for the moment vanished1 while honesty and love have triumphed4 ,the stage lightens the cares of life4 ,the pulpit increases the tears and groans of man4 ,there is this difference3 ,the pretence of honesty and the honesty of pretence4 ,question4 ,how do you view the ,episcopalian scheme of building a six-million-dollar untaxed cathedral in this city for the purpose of uniting the sects1 and1 when that is accomplished1 unifying the world in the love of ,christ1 and thereby abolishing misery8 ,answer4 ,i regard the building of an ,episcopal cathedral simply as a piece of religious folly4 ,the world will never be converted by ,christian palaces and temples4 ,every dollar used in its construction will be wasted4 ,it will have no tendency to unite the various sects2 on the contrary1 it will excite the envy and jealousy of every other sect4 ,it will widen the gulf between the ,episcopalian and the ,methodist1 between the ,episcopalian and the ,presbyterian1 and this hatred will continue until the other sects build a cathedral just a little larger1 and then the envy and the hatred will be on the other side4 ,religion will never unify the world1 and never will give peace to mankind4 ,there has been more war in the last eighteen hundred years than during any similar period within historic times4 ,war will be abolished1 if it ever is abolished1 not by religion1 but by intelligence4 ,it will be abolished when the poor people of ,germany1 of ,france1 of ,spain1 of ,england1 and other countries find that they have no interest in war4 ,when those who pay1 and those who do the fighting1 find that they are simply destroying their own interests1 wars will cease4 ,there ought to be a national court to decide national difficulties4 ,we consider a community civilized when the individuals of that community submit their differences to a legal tribunal2 but there being no national court1 nations now sustain1 as to each other1 the relation of savages--that is to say1 each one must defend its rights by brute force4 ,the establishment of a national court civilizes nations1 and tends to do away with war4 ,christianity caused so much war1 so much bloodshed1 that ,christians were forced to interpolate a passage to account for their history1 and the interpolated passage is1 ,i came not to bring peace1 but a sword4 ,suppose that all the money wasted in cathedrals in the ,middle ,ages had been used for the construction of schoolhouses1 academies1 and universities1 how much better the world would have been6 ,suppose that instead of supporting hundreds of thousands of idle priests1 the money had been given to men of science1 for the purpose of finding out something of benefit to the human race here in this world4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,christian charity and the fatherhood of ,god as an economic polity for abolishing poverty and misery8 ,answer4 ,of course1 the world is not to be civilized and clothed and fed through charity4 ,ordinary charity creates more want than it alleviates4 ,the greatest possible charity is the greatest possible justice4 ,when proper wages are paid1 when every one is as willing to give what a thing is worth as he is now willing to get it for less1 the world will be fed and clothed4 ,i believe in helping people to help themselves4 ,i believe that corporations1 and successful men1 and superior men intellectually1 should do all within their power to keep from robbing their fellow- men4 ,the superior man should protect the inferior4 ,the powerful should be the shield of the weak4 ,to-day it is1 for the most part1 exactly the other way4 ,the failures among men become the food of success4 ,the world is to grow better and better through intelligence1 through a development of the brain1 through taking advantage of the forces of nature1 through science1 through chemistry1 and through the arts4 ,religion can do nothing except to sow the seeds of discord between men and nations4 ,commerce1 manufactures1 and the arts tend to peace and the well-being of the world4 ,what is known as religion --that is to say1 a system by which this world is wasted in preparation for another--a system in which the duties of men are greater to ,god than to his fellow-men--a system that denies the liberty of thought and expression--tends only to discord and retrogression4 ,of course1 ,i know that religious people cling to the ,bible on account of the good that is in it1 and in spite of the bad1 and ,i know that ,freethinkers throw away the ,bible on account of the bad that is in it1 in spite of the good4 ,i hope the time will come when that book will be treated like other books1 and will be judged upon its merits1 apart from the fiction of inspiration4 ,the church has no right to speak of charity1 because it is an object of charity itself4 ,it gives nothing2 all it can do is to receive4 ,at best1 it is only a respectable beggar4 ,i never care to hear one who receives alms pay a tribute to charity4 ,the one who gives alms should pay this tribute4 ,the amount of money expended upon churches and priests and all the paraphernalia of superstition1 is more than enough to drive the wolves from the doors of the world4 ,question4 ,have you noticed the progress ,catholics are making in the ,northwest1 discontinuing public schools1 and forcing people to send their children to the parochial schools2 also1 at ,pittsburg1 ,pa41 a ,roman ,catholic priest has been elected principal of a public school1 and he has appointed nuns as assistant teachers8 ,answer4 ,sectarian schools ought not to be supported by public taxation4 ,it is the very essence of religious tyranny to compel a ,methodist to support a ,catholic school1 or to compel a ,catholic to support a ,baptist academy4 ,nothing should be taught in the public schools that the teachers do not know4 ,nothing should be taught about any religion1 and nothing should be taught that can1 in any way1 be called sectarian4 ,the sciences are not religion4 ,there is no such thing as ,methodist mathematics1 or ,baptist botany4 ,in other words1 no religion has anything to do with facts4 ,the facts are all secular2 the sciences are all of this world4 ,if ,catholics wish to establish their own schools for the purpose of preserving their ignorance1 they have the right to do so2 so has any other denomination4 ,but in this country the ,state has no right to teach any form of religion whatever4 ,persons of all religions have the right to advocate and defend any religion in which they believe1 or they have the right to denounce all religions4 ,if the ,catholics establish parochial schools1 let them support such schools2 and if they do1 they will simply lessen or shorten the longevity of that particular superstition4 ,it has often been said that nothing will repeal a bad law as quickly as its enforcement4 ,so1 in my judgment1 nothing will destroy any church as certainly1 and as rapidly1 as for the members of that church to live squarely up to the creed4 ,the church is indebted to its hypocrisy to-day for its life4 ,no orthodox church in the ,united ,states dare meet for the purpose of revising the creed4 ,they know that the whole thing would fall to pieces4 ,nothing could be more absurd than for a ,roman ,catholic priest to teach a public school1 assisted by nuns4 ,the ,catholic ,church is the enemy of human progress2 it teaches every man to throw away his reason1 to deny his observation and experience4 ,question4 ,your opinions have frequently been quoted with regard to the ,anarchists--with regard to their trial and execution4 ,have you any objection to stating your real opinion in regard to the matter8 ,answer4 ,not in the least4 ,i am perfectly willing that all civilized people should know my opinions on any question in which others than myself can have any interest4 ,i was anxious1 in the first place1 that the defendants should have a fair and impartial trial4 ,the worst form of anarchy is when a judge violates his conscience and bows to a popular demand4 ,a court should care nothing for public opinion4 ,an honest judge decides the law1 not as it ought to be1 but as it is1 and the state of the public mind throws no light upon the question of what the law then is4 ,i thought that some of the rulings on the trial of the ,anarchists were contrary to law4 ,i think so still4 ,i have read the opinion of the ,supreme ,court of ,illinois1 and while the conclusion reached by that tribunal is the law of that case1 ,i was not satisfied with the reasons given1 and do not regard the opinion as good law4 ,there is no place for an ,anarchist in the ,united ,states4 ,there is no excuse for any resort to force2 and it is impossible to use language too harsh or too bitter in denouncing the spirit of anarchy in this country4 ,but1 no matter how bad a man is1 he has the right to be fairly tried2 and if he cannot be fairly tried1 then there is anarchy on the bench4 ,so ,i was opposed to the execution of these men4 ,i thought it would have been far better to commute the punishment to imprisonment1 and ,i said so2 and ,i not only said so1 but ,i wrote a letter to ,governor ,oglesby1 in which ,i urged the commutation of the death sentence4 ,in my judgment1 a great mistake was made4 ,i am on the side of mercy1 and if ,i ever make mistakes1 ,i hope they will all be made on that side4 ,i have not the slightest sympathy with the feeling of revenge4 ,neither have ,i ever admitted1 and ,i never shall1 that every citizen has not the right to give his opinion on all that may be done by any servant of the people1 by any judge1 or by any court1 by any officer--however small or however great4 ,each man in the ,united ,states is a sovereign1 and a king can freely speak his mind4 ,words were put in my mouth that ,i never uttered with regard to the ,anarchists4 ,i never said that they were saints1 or that they would be martyrs4 ,what ,i said was that they would be regarded as saints and martyrs by many people if they were executed1 and that has happened which ,i said would happen4 ,i am1 so far as ,i know1 on the side of the right4 ,i wish1 above all things1 for the preservation of human liberty4 ,this ,government is the best1 and we should not lose confidence in liberty4 ,property is of very little value in comparison with freedom4 ,a civilization that rests on slavery is utterly worthless4 ,i do not believe in sacrificing all there is of value in the human heart1 or in the human brain1 for the preservation of what is called property1 or rather1 on account of the fear that what is called property may perish4 ,property is in no danger while man is free4 ,it is the freedom of man that gives value to property4 ,it is the happiness of the human race that creates what we call value4 ,if we preserve liberty1 the spirit of progress1 the conditions of development1 property will take care of itself4 ,question4 ,the ,christian press during the past few months has been very solicitous as to your health1 and has reported you weak and feeble physically1 and not only so1 but asserts that there is a growing disposition on your part to lay down your arms1 and even to join the church4 ,answer4 ,i do not think the ,christian press has been very solicitous about my health4 ,neither do ,i think that my health will ever add to theirs4 ,the fact is1 ,i am exceedingly well1 and my throat is better than it has been for many years4 ,any one who imagines that ,i am disposed to lay down my arms can read by ,reply to ,dr4 ,field in the ,november number of the ,north ,american ,review4 ,i see no particular difference in myself1 except this2 that my hatred of superstition becomes a little more and more intense2 on the other hand1 ,i see more clearly1 that all the superstitions were naturally produced1 and ,i am now satisfied that every man does as he must1 including priests and editors of religious papers4 ,this gives me hope for the future4 ,we find that certain soil1 with a certain amount of moisture and heat1 produces good corn1 and we find when the soil is poor1 or when the ground is too wet1 or too dry1 that no amount of care can1 by any possibility1 produce good corn4 ,in other words1 we find that the fruit1 that is to say1 the result1 whatever it may be1 depends absolutely upon the conditions4 ,this being so1 we will in time find out the conditions that produce good1 intelligent1 honest men4 ,this is the hope for the future4 ,we shall know better than to rely on what is called reformation1 or regeneration1 or a resolution born of ignorant excitement4 ,we shall rely1 then1 on the eternal foundation--the fact in nature-- that like causes produce like results1 and that good conditions will produce good people4 ,question4 ,every now and then some one challenges you to a discussion1 and nearly every one who delivers lectures1 or speeches1 attacking you1 or your views1 says that you are afraid publicly to debate these questions4 ,why do you not meet these men1 and why do you not answer these attacks8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 it would be a physical impossibility to reply to all the attacks that have been made--to all the answers4 ,i receive these attacks1 and these answers1 and these lectures almost every day4 ,hundreds of them are delivered every year4 ,a great many are put in pamphlet form1 and1 of course1 copies are received by me4 ,some of them ,i read1 at least ,i look them over1 and ,i have never yet received one worthy of the slightest notice1 never one in which the writer showed the slightest appreciation of the questions under discussion4 ,all these pamphlets are about the same1 and they could1 for the matter1 have all been produced by one person4 ,they are impudent1 shallow1 abusive1 illogical1 and in most respects1 ignorant4 ,so far as the lecturers are concerned1 ,i know of no one who has yet said anything that challenges a reply4 ,i do not think a single paragraph has been produced by any of the gentlemen who have replied to me in public1 that is now remembered by reason of its logic or beauty4 ,i do not feel called upon to answer any argument that does not at least appear to be of value4 ,whenever any article appears worthy of an answer1 written in a kind and candid spirit1 it gives me pleasure to reply4 ,i should like to meet some one who speaks by authority1 some one who really understands his creed1 but ,i cannot afford to waste time on little priests or obscure parsons or ignorant laymen4 --,the ,truth ,seeker1 ,new ,york1 ,january #ad1 #ahhh4 ,,roscoe ,,conkling4 ,question4 ,what is ,mr4 ,conkling's place in the political history of the ,united ,states8 ,answer4 ,upon the great questions ,mr4 ,conkling has been right4 ,during the war he was always strong and clear1 unwavering and decided4 ,his position was always known4 ,he was right on reconstruction1 on civil rights1 on the currency1 and1 so far as ,i know1 on all important questions4 ,he will be remembered as an honest1 fearless man4 ,he was admired for his known integrity4 ,he was never even suspected of being swayed by an improper consideration4 ,he was immeasurably above purchase4 ,his popularity rested upon his absolute integrity4 ,he was not adapted for a leader1 because he would yield nothing4 ,he had no compromise in his nature4 ,he went his own road and he would not turn aside for the sake of company4 ,his individuality was too marked and his will too imperious to become a leader in a republic4 ,there is a great deal of individuality in this country1 and a leader must not appear to govern and must not demand obedience4 ,in the ,senate he was a leader4 ,he settled with no one4 ,question4 ,what essentially ,american idea does he stand for8 ,answer4 ,it is a favorite saying in this country that the people are sovereigns4 ,mr4 ,conkling felt this to be true1 and he exercised what he believed to be his rights4 ,he insisted upon the utmost freedom for himself4 ,he settled with no one but himself4 ,he stands for individuality--for the freedom of the citizen1 the independence of the man4 ,no lord1 no duke1 no king was ever prouder of his title or his place than ,mr4 ,conkling was of his position and his power4 ,he was thoroughly ,american in every drop of his blood4 ,question4 ,what have you to say about his having died with sealed lips8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,conkling was too proud to show wounds4 ,he did not tell his sorrows to the public4 ,it seemed sufficient to him to know the facts himself4 ,he seemed to have great confidence in time1 and he had the patience to wait4 ,of course he could have told many things that would have shed light on many important events1 but for my part ,i think he acted in the noblest way4 ,he was a striking and original figure in our politics4 ,he stood alone4 ,i know of no one like him4 ,he will be remembered as a fearless and incorruptible statesman1 a great lawyer1 a magnificent speaker1 and an honest man4 --,the ,herald1 ,new ,york1 ,april #ai1 #ahhh4 ,,the ,,church ,,and ,,the ,,stage4 ,question4 ,i have come to talk with you a little about the drama4 ,have you any decided opinions on that subject8 ,answer4 ,nothing is more natural than imitation4 ,the little child with her doll1 telling it stories1 putting words in its mouth1 attributing to it the feelings of happiness and misery1 is the simple tendency toward the drama4 ,little children always have plays1 they imitate their parents1 they put on the clothes of their elders1 they have imaginary parties1 carry on conversation with imaginary persons1 have little dishes filled with imaginary food1 pour tea and coffee out of invisible pots1 receive callers1 and repeat what they have heard their mothers say4 ,this is simply the natural drama1 an exercise of the imagination which always has been and which1 probably1 always will be1 a source of great pleasure4 ,in the early days of the world nothing was more natural than for the people to re-enact the history of their country--to represent the great heroes1 the great battles1 and the most exciting scenes the history of which has been preserved by legend4 ,i believe this tendency to re-enact1 to bring before the eyes the great1 the curious1 and pathetic events of history1 has been universal4 ,all civilized nations have delighted in the theatre1 and the greatest minds in many countries have been devoted to the drama1 and1 without doubt1 the greatest man about whom we know anything devoted his life to the production of plays4 ,question4 ,i would like to ask you why1 in your opinion as a student of history1 has the ,protestant ,church always been so bitterly opposed to the theatre8 ,answer4 ,i believe the early ,christians expected the destruction of the world4 ,they had no idea of remaining here1 in the then condition of things1 but for a few days4 ,they expected that ,christ would come again1 that the world would be purified by fire1 that all the unbelievers would be burned up and that the earth would become a fit habitation for the followers of the ,saviour4 ,protestantism became as ascetic as the early ,christians4 ,it is hard to conceive of anybody believing in the ,five ,points of ,john ,calvin going to any place of amusement4 ,the creed of ,protestantism made life infinitely sad and made man infinitely responsible4 ,according to this creed every man was liable at any moment to be summoned to eternal pain2 the most devout ,christian was not absolutely sure of salvation4 ,this life was a probationary one4 ,everybody was considered as waiting on the dock of time1 sitting on his trunk1 expecting the ship that was to bear him to an eternity of good or evil--probably evil4 ,they were in no state of mind to enjoy burlesque or comedy1 and1 so far as tragedy was concerned1 their own lives and their own creeds were tragic beyond anything that could by any possibility happen in this world4 ,a broken heart was nothing to be compared with a damned soul2 the afflictions of a few years1 with the flames of eternity4 ,this1 to say the least of it1 accounts1 in part1 for the hatred that ,protestantism always bore toward the stage4 ,of course1 the churches have always regarded the theatre as a rival and have begrudged the money used to support the stage4 ,you know that ,macaulay said the ,puritans objected to bear-baiting1 not because they pitied the bears1 but because they hated to see the people enjoy themselves4 ,there is in this at least a little truth4 ,orthodox religion has always been and always will be the enemy of happiness4 ,this world is not the place for enjoyment4 ,this is the place to suffer4 ,this is the place to practice self-denial1 to wear crowns of thorns2 the other world is the place for joy1 provided you are fortunate enough to travel the narrow1 grass-grown path4 ,of course1 wicked people can be happy here4 ,people who care nothing for the good of others1 who live selfish and horrible lives1 are supposed by ,christians to enjoy themselves2 consequently1 they will be punished in another world4 ,but whoever carried the cross of decency1 and whoever denied himself to that degree that he neither stole nor forged nor murdered1 will be paid for this self-denial in another world4 ,and whoever said that he preferred a prayer-meeting with five or six queer old men and two or three very aged women1 with one or two candles1 and who solemnly affirmed that he enjoyed that far more than he could a play of ,shakespeare1 was expected with much reason1 ,i think1 to be rewarded in another world4 ,question4 ,do you think that church people were justified in their opposition to the drama in the days when ,congreve1 ,wycherley and ,ben ,jonson were the popular favorites8 ,answer4 ,in that time there was a great deal of vulgarity in many of the plays4 ,many things were said on the stage that the people of this age would not care to hear1 and there was not very often enough wit in the saying to redeem it4 ,my principal objection to ,congreve1 ,wycherley and most of their contemporaries is that the plays were exceedingly poor and had not much in them of real1 sterling value4 ,the ,puritans1 however1 did not object on account of the vulgarity2 that was not the honest objection4 ,no play was ever put upon the ,english stage more vulgar then the ,table ,talk of ,martin ,luther1 and many sermons preached in that day were almost unrivaled for vulgarity4 ,the worst passages in the ,old ,testament were quoted with a kind of unction that showed a love for the vulgar4 ,and1 in my judgment1 the worst plays were as good as the sermons1 and the theatre of that time was better adapted to civilize mankind1 to soften the human heart1 and to make better men and better women1 than the pulpit of that day4 ,the actors1 in my judgment1 were better people than the preachers4 ,they had in them more humanity1 more real goodness and more appreciation of beauty1 of tenderness1 of generosity and of heroism4 ,probably no religion was ever more thoroughly hateful than ,puritanism4 ,but all religionists who believe in an eternity of pain would naturally be opposed to everything that makes this life better2 and1 as a matter of fact1 orthodox churches have been the enemies of painting1 of sculpture1 of music and the drama4 ,question4 ,what1 in your estimation1 is the value of the drama as a factor in our social life at the present time8 ,answer4 ,i believe that the plays of ,shakespeare are the most valuable things in the possession of the human race4 ,no man can read and understand ,shakespeare without being an intellectually developed man4 ,if ,shakespeare could be as widely circulated as the ,bible--if all the ,bible societies would break the plates they now have and print ,shakespeare1 and put ,shakespeare in all the languages of the world1 nothing would so raise the intellectual standard of mankind4 ,think of the different influence on men between reading ,deuteronomy and ,hamlet and ,king ,lear2 between studying ,numbers and the ,midsummer ,night's ,dream2 between pondering over the murderous crimes and assassinations in ,judges1 and studying ,the ,tempest or ,as ,you ,like ,it4 ,man advances as he develops intellectually4 ,the church teaches obedience4 ,the man who reads ,shakespeare has his intellectual horizon enlarged4 ,he begins to think for himself1 and he enjoys living in a new world4 ,the characters of ,shakespeare become his acquaintances4 ,he admires the heroes1 the philosophers2 he laughs with the clowns1 and he almost adores the beautiful women1 the pure1 loving1 and heroic women born of ,shakespeare's heart and brain4 ,the stage has amused and instructed the world4 ,it had added to the happiness of mankind4 ,it has kept alive all arts4 ,it is in partnership with all there is of beauty1 of poetry1 and expression4 ,it goes hand in hand with music1 with painting1 with sculpture1 with oratory1 with philosophy1 and history4 ,the stage has humor4 ,it abhors stupidity4 ,it despises hypocrisy4 ,it holds up to laughter the peculiarities1 the idiosyncrasies1 and the little insanities of mankind4 ,it thrusts the spear of ridicule through the shield of pretence4 ,it laughs at the lugubrious and it has ever taught and will1 in all probability1 forever teach1 that ,man is more than a title1 and that human love laughs at all barriers1 at all the prejudices of society and caste that tend to keep apart two loving hearts4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the progress of the drama in educating the artistic sense of the community as compared with the progress of the church as an educator of the moral sentiment8 ,answer4 ,of course1 the stage is not all good1 nor is--and ,i say this with becoming modesty--the pulpit all bad4 ,there have been bad actors and there have been good preachers4 ,there has been no improvement in plays since ,shakespeare wrote4 ,there has been great improvement in theatres1 and the tendency seems to me be toward higher artistic excellence in the presentation of plays4 ,as we become slowly civilized we will constantly demand more artistic excellence4 ,there will always be a class satisfied with the lowest form of dramatic presentation1 with coarse wit1 with stupid but apparent jokes1 and there will always be a class satisfied with almost anything2 but the class demanding the highest1 the best1 will constantly increase in numbers1 and the other classes will1 in all probability1 correspondingly decrease4 ,the church has ceased to be an educator4 ,in an artistic direction it never did anything except in architecture1 and that ceased long ago4 ,the followers of to-day are poor copyists4 ,the church has been compelled to be a friend of1 or rather to call in the assistance of1 music4 ,as a moral teacher1 the church always has been and always will be a failure4 ,the pulpit1 to use the language of ,frederick ,douglass1 has always echoed the cry of the street4 ,take our own history4 ,the church was the friend of slavery4 ,that institution was defended in nearly every pulpit4 ,the ,bible was the auction-block on which the slave-mother stood while her child was sold from her arms4 ,the church1 for hundreds of years1 was the friend and defender of the slave-trade4 ,i know of no crime that has not been defended by the church1 in one form or another4 ,the church is not a pioneer2 it accepts a new truth1 last of all1 and only when denial has become useless4 ,the church preaches the doctrine of forgiveness4 ,this doctrine sells crime on credit4 ,the idea that there is a ,god who rewards and punishes1 and who can reward1 if he so wishes1 the meanest and vilest of the human race1 so that he will be eternally happy1 and can punish the best of the human race1 so that he will be eternally miserable1 is subversive of all morality4 ,happiness ought to be the result of good actions4 ,happiness ought to spring from the seed a man sows himself4 ,it ought not to be a reward1 it ought to be a consequence1 and there ought to be no idea that there is any being who can step between action and consequence4 ,to preach that a man can abuse his wife and children1 rob his neighbors1 slander his fellow-citizens1 and yet1 a moment or two before he dies1 by repentance become a glorified angel is1 in my judgment1 immoral4 ,and to preach that a man can be a good man1 kind to his wife and children1 an honest man1 paying his debts1 and yet1 for the lack of a certain belief1 the moment after he is dead1 be sent to an eternal prison1 is also immoral4 ,so that1 according to my opinion1 while the church teaches men many good things1 it also teaches doctrines subversive of morality4 ,if there were not in the whole world a church1 the morality of man1 in my judgment1 would be the gainer4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the treatment of the actor by society in his social relations8 ,answer4 ,for a good many years the basis of society has been the dollar4 ,only a few years ago all literary men were ostracized because they had no money2 neither did they have a reading public4 ,if any man produced a book he had to find a patron--some titled donkey1 some lauded lubber1 in whose honor he could print a few well-turned lies on the fly-leaf4 ,if you wish to know the degradation of literature1 read the dedication written by ,lord ,bacon to ,james ,i41 in which he puts him beyond all kings1 living and dead--beyond ,caesar and ,marcus ,aurelius4 ,in those days the literary man was a servant1 a hack4 ,he lived in ,grub ,street4 ,he was only one degree above the sturdy vagrant and the escaped convict4 ,why was this8 ,he had no money and he lived in an age when money was the fountain of respectability4 ,let me give you another instance3 ,mozart1 whose brain was a fountain of melody1 was forced to eat at table with coachmen1 with footmen and scullions4 ,he was simply a servant who was commanded to make music for a pudding-headed bishop4 ,the same was true of the great painters1 and of almost all other men who rendered the world beautiful by art1 and who enriched the languages of mankind4 ,the basis of respectability was the dollar4 ,now that the literary man has an intelligent public he cares nothing for the ignorant patron4 ,the literary man makes money4 ,the world is becoming civilized and the literary man stands high4 ,in ,england1 however1 if ,charles ,darwin had been invited to dinner1 and there had been present some sprig of nobility1 some titled vessel holding the germs of hereditary disease1 ,darwin would have been compelled to occupy a place beneath him4 ,but ,i have hopes even for ,england4 ,the same is true of the artist4 ,the man who can now paint a picture by which he receives from five thousand to fifty thousand dollars1 is necessarily respectable4 ,the actor who may realize from one to two thousand dollars a night1 or even more1 is welcomed in the stupidest and richest society4 ,so with the singers and with all others who instruct and amuse mankind4 ,many people imagine that he who amuses them must be lower than they4 ,this1 however1 is hardly possible4 ,i believe in the aristocracy of the brain and heart2 in the aristocracy of intelligence and goodness1 and not only appreciate but admire the great actor1 the great painter1 the great sculptor1 the marvelous singer4 ,in other words1 ,i admire all people who tend to make this life richer1 who give an additional thought to this poor world4 ,question4 ,do you think this liberal movement1 favoring the better class of plays1 inaugurated by the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,abbott1 will tend to soften the sentiment of the orthodox churches against the stage8 ,answer4 ,i have not read what ,dr4 ,abbott has written on this subject4 ,from your statement of his position1 ,i think he entertains quite a sensible view1 and1 when we take into consideration that he is a minister1 a miraculously sensible view4 ,it is not the business of the dramatist1 the actor1 the painter or the sculptor to teach what the church calls morality4 ,the dramatist and the actor ought to be truthful1 ought to be natural--that is to say1 truthfully and naturally artistic4 ,he should present pictures of life properly chosen1 artistically constructed2 an exhibition of emotions truthfully done1 artistically done4 ,if vice is presented naturally1 no one will fall in love with vice4 ,if the better qualities of the human heart are presented naturally1 no one can fail to fall in love with them4 ,but they need not be presented for that purpose4 ,the object of the artist is to present truthfully and artistically4 ,he is not a ,sunday school teacher4 ,he is not to have the moral effect eternally in his mind4 ,it is enough for him to be truly artistic4 ,because1 as ,i have said1 a great many times1 the greatest good is done by indirection4 ,for instance1 a man lives a good1 noble1 honest and lofty life4 ,the value of that life would be destroyed if he kept calling attention to it--if he said to all who met him1 ,look at me6 he would become intolerable4 ,the truly artistic speaks of perfection2 that is to say1 of harmony1 not only of conduct1 but of harmony and proportion in everything4 ,the pulpit is always afraid of the passions1 and really imagines that it has some influence on men and women1 keeping them in the path of virtue4 ,no greater mistake was ever made4 ,eternally talking and harping on that one subject1 in my judgment1 does harm4 ,forever keeping it in the mind by reading passages from the ,bible1 by talking about the corruption of the human heart1 of the power of temptation1 of the scarcity of virtue1 of the plentifulness of vice--all these platitudes tend to produce exactly what they are directed against4 ,question4 ,i fear1 ,colonel1 that ,i have surprised you into agreeing with a clergyman4 ,the following are the points made by the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,abbott in his editorial on the theatre1 and it seems to me that you and he think very much alike--on that subject4 ,the points are these3 #a4 ,it is not the function of the drama to teach moral lessons4 #b4 ,a moral lesson neither makes nor mars either a drama or a novel4 #c4 ,the moral quality of a play does not depend upon the result4 #d4 ,the real function of the drama is like that of the novel--not to amuse1 not to excite2 but to portray life1 and so minister to it4 ,and as virtue and vice1 goodness and evil1 are the great fundamental facts of life1 they must1 in either serious story or serious play1 be portrayed4 ,if they are so portrayed that the vice is alluring and the virtue repugnant1 the play or story is immoral2 if so portrayed that the vice is repellant and the virtue alluring1 they play or story is moral4 #e4 ,the church has no occasion to ask the theatre to preach2 though if it does preach we have a right to demand that its ethical doctrines be pure and high4 ,but we have a right to demand that in its pictures of life it so portrays vice as to make it abhorrent1 and so portrays virtue as to make it attractive4 ,answer4 ,i agree in most of what you have read1 though ,i must confess that to find a minister agreeing with me1 or to find myself agreeing with a minister1 makes me a little uncertain4 ,all art1 in my judgment1 is for the sake of expression--equally true of the drama as of painting and sculpture4 ,no poem touches the human heart unless it touches the universal4 ,it must1 at some point1 move in unison with the great ebb and flow of things4 ,the same is true of the play1 of a piece of music or a statue4 ,i think that all real artists1 in all departments1 touch the universal and when they do the result is good2 but the result need not have been a consideration4 ,there is an old story that at first there was a temple erected upon the earth by ,god himself2 that afterward this temple was shivered into countless pieces and distributed over the whole earth1 and that all the rubies and diamonds and precious stones since found are parts of that temple4 ,now1 if we could conceive of a building1 or of anything involving all ,art1 and that it had been scattered abroad1 then ,i would say that whoever find and portrays truthfully a thought1 an emotion1 a truth1 has found and restored one of the jewels4 --,dramatic ,mirror1 ,new ,york1 ,april #ba1 #ahhh4 ,,protection ,,and ,,free ,,trade4 ,question4 ,do you take much interest in politics1 ,colonel ,ingersoll8 ,answer4 ,i take as much interest in politics as a ,republican ought who expects nothing and who wants nothing for himself4 ,i want to see this country again controlled by the ,republican party4 ,the present administration has not1 in my judgment1 the training and the political intelligence to decide upon the great economic and financial questions4 ,there are a great many politicians and but few statesmen4 ,here1 where men have to be elected every two or six years1 there is hardly time for the officials to study statesmanship--they are busy laying pipes and fixing fences for the next election4 ,each one feels much like a monkey at a fair1 on the top of a greased pole1 and puts in the most of his time dodging stones and keeping from falling4 ,i want to see the party in power best qualified1 best equipped1 to administer the ,government4 ,question4 ,what do you think will be the particular issue of the coming campaign8 ,answer4 ,that question has already been answered4 ,the great question will be the tariff4 ,mr4 ,cleveland imagines that the surplus can be gotten rid of by a reduction of the tariff4 ,if the reduction is so great as to increase the demand for foreign articles1 the probability is that the surplus will be increased4 ,the surplus can surely be done away with by either of two methods2 first make the tariff prohibitory2 second1 have no tariff4 ,but if the tariff is just at that point where the foreign goods could pay it and yet undersell the ,american so as to stop home manufactures1 then the surplus would increase4 ,as a rule we can depend on ,american competition to keep prices at a reasonable rate4 ,when that fails we have at all times the governing power in our hands--that is to say1 we can reduce the tariff4 ,in other words1 the tariff is not for the benefit of the manufacturer--the protection is not for the mechanic or the capitalist --it is for the whole country4 ,i do not believe in protecting silk simply to help the town of ,paterson1 but ,i am for the protection of the manufacture1 because1 in my judgment1 it helps the entire country1 and because ,i know that it has given us a far better article of silk at a far lower price than we obtained before the establishment of those factories4 ,i believe in the protection of every industry that needs it1 to the end that we may make use of every kind of brain and find use for all human capacities4 ,in this way we will produce greater and better people4 ,a nation of agriculturalists or a nation of mechanics would become narrow and small1 but where everything is done1 then the brain is cultivated on every side1 from artisan to artist4 ,that is to say1 we become thinkers as well as workers2 muscle and mind form a partnership4 ,i don't believe that ,england is particularly interested in the welfare of the ,united ,states4 ,it never seemed probable to me that men like ,godwin ,smith sat up nights fearing that we in some way might injure ourselves4 ,to use a phrase that will be understood by theologians at least1 we ought to copper all ,english advice4 ,the free traders say that there ought to be no obstructions placed by governments between buyers and sellers4 ,if we want to make the trade1 of course there should be no obstruction1 but if we prefer that ,americans should trade with ,americans--that ,americans should make what ,americans want--then1 so far as trading with foreigners is concerned1 there ought to be an obstruction4 ,i am satisfied that the ,united ,states could get along if the rest of the world should be submerged1 and ,i want to see this country in such a condition that it can be independent of the rest of mankind4 ,there is more mechanical genius in the ,united ,states than in the rest of the world1 and this genius has been fostered and developed by protection4 ,the ,democracy wish to throw all this away--to make useless this skill1 this ingenuity1 born of generations of application and thought4 ,these deft and marvelous hands that create the countless things of use and beauty to be worth no more than the common hands of ignorant delvers and shovelers4 ,to the extent that thought is mingled with labor1 labor becomes honorable and its burden lighter4 ,thousands of millions of dollars have been invested on the faith of this policy--millions and millions of people are this day earning their bread by reason of protection1 and they are better housed and better fed and better clothed than any other workmen on the globe4 ,the intelligent people of this country will not be satisfied with ,president ,cleveland's platform--with his free trade primer4 ,they believe in good wages for good work1 and they know that this is the richest nation in the world4 ,the ,republic is worth at least sixty billion dollars4 ,this vast sum is the result of labor1 and this labor has been protected either directly or indirectly4 ,this vast sum has been made by the farmer1 the mechanic1 the laborer1 the miner1 the inventor4 ,protection has given work and wages to the mechanic and a market to the farmer4 ,the interests of all laborers in ,america--all men who work--are identical4 ,if the farmer pays more for his plow he gets more for his plowing4 ,in old times1 when the ,south manufactured nothing and raised only raw material--for the reason that its labor was enslaved and could not be trusted with education enough to become skillful--it was in favor of free trade2 it wanted to sell the raw material to ,england and buy the manufactured article where it could buy the cheapest4 ,even under those circumstances it was a short-sighted and unpatriotic policy4 ,now everything is changing in the ,south4 ,they are beginning to see that he who simply raises raw material is destined to be forever poor4 ,for instance1 the farmer who sells corn will never get rich2 the farmer should sell pork and beef and horses4 ,so a nation1 a ,state1 that parts with its raw material1 loses nearly all the profits1 for the reason that the profit rises with the skill requisite to produce4 ,it requires only brute strength to raise cotton2 it requires something more to spin it1 to weave it1 and the more beautiful the fabric the greater the skill1 and consequently the higher the wages and the greater the profit4 ,in other words1 the more thought is mingled with labor the more valuable is the result4 ,besides all this1 protection is the mother of economy2 the cheapest at last1 no matter whether the amount paid is less or more4 ,it is far better for us to make glass than to sell sand to other countries2 the profit on sand will be exceedingly small4 ,the interests of this country are united2 they depend upon each other4 ,you destroy one and the effect upon all the rest may be disastrous4 ,suppose we had free trade to-day1 what would become of the manufacturing interests to-morrow8 ,the value of property would fall thousands of millions of dollars in an instant4 ,the fires would die out in thousands and thousands of furnaces1 innumerable engines would stop1 thousands and thousands would stop digging coal and iron and steel4 ,what would the city that had been built up by the factories be worth8 ,what would be the effect on farms in that neighborhood8 ,what would be the effect on railroads1 on freights1 on business--what upon the towns through which they passed8 ,stop making iron in ,pennsylvania1 and the ,state would be bankrupt in an hour4 ,give us free trade1 and ,new ,jersey1 ,connecticut and many other ,states would not be worth one dollar an acre4 ,if a man will think of the connection between all industries--of the dependence and inter-dependence of each on all2 of the subtle relations between all human pursuits--he will see that to destroy some of the grand interest makes financial ruin and desolation4 ,i am not talking now about a tariff that is too high1 because that tariff does not produce a surplus--neither am ,i asking to have that protected which needs no protection--,i am only insisting that all the industries that have been fostered and that need protection should be protected1 and that we should turn our attention to the interests of our own country1 letting other nations take care of themselves4 ,if every ,american would use only articles produced by ,americans--if they would wear only ,american cloth1 only ,american silk--if we would absolutely stand by each other1 the prosperity of this nation would be the marvel of human history4 ,we can live at home1 and we have now the ingenuity1 the intelligence1 the industry to raise from nature everything that a nation needs4 ,question4 ,what have you to say about the claim that ,mr4 ,cleveland does not propose free trade8 ,answer4 ,i suppose that he means what he said4 ,his argument was all for free trade1 and he endeavored to show to the farmer that he lost altogether more money by protection1 because he paid a higher price for manufactured articles and received no more for what he had to sell4 ,this certainly was an argument in favor of free trade4 ,and there is no way to decrease the surplus except to prohibit the importation of foreign articles1 which certainly ,mr4 ,cleveland is not in favor of doing1 or to reduce the tariff to a point so low that no matter how much may be imported the surplus will be reduced4 ,if the message means anything it means free trade1 and if there is any argument in it it is an argument in favor of absolutely free trade4 ,the party1 not willing to say free trade uses the word reform4 ,this is simply a mask and a pretence4 ,the party knows that the ,president made a mistake4 ,the party1 however1 is so situated that it cannot get rid of ,cleveland1 and consequently must take him with his mistake--they must take him with his message1 and then show that all he intended by free trade was reform4 ,question4 ,who do you think ought to be nominated at ,chicago8 ,answer4 ,personally1 ,i am for ,general ,gresham4 ,i am saying nothing against the other prominent candidates4 ,they have their friends1 and many of them are men of character and capacity1 and would make good ,presidents4 ,but ,i know of no man who has a better record than ,gresham1 and of no man who1 in my judgment1 would receive a larger number of votes4 ,i know of no ,republican who would not support ,judge ,gresham4 ,i have never heard one say that he had anything against him or know of any reason why he should not be voted for4 ,he is a man of great natural capacity4 ,he is candid and unselfish4 ,he has for many years been engaged in the examination and decision of important questions1 of good principles1 and consequently he has a trained mind4 ,he knows how to take hold of a question1 to get at a fact1 to discover in a multitude of complications the real principle--the heart of the case4 ,he has always been a man of affairs4 ,he is not simply a judge--that is to say1 a legal pair of scales--he knows the effect of his decision on the welfare of communities--he is not governed entirely by precedents--he has opinions of his own4 ,in the next place1 he is a man of integrity in all the relations of life4 ,he is not a seeker after place1 and1 so far as ,i know1 he has done nothing for the purpose of inducing any human being to favor his nomination4 ,i have never spoken to him on the subject4 ,in the ,west he has developed great strength1 in fact1 his popularity has astonished even his best friends4 ,the great mass of people want a perfectly reliable man--one who will be governed by his best judgment and by a desire to do the fair and honorable thing4 ,it has been stated that the great corporations might not support him with much warmth for the reason that he has failed to decide certain cases in their favor4 ,i believe that he has decided the law as he believed it to be1 and that he has never been influenced in the slightest degree1 by the character1 position1 or the wealth of the parties before him4 ,it may be that some of the great financiers1 the manipulators1 the creators of bonds and stocks1 the blowers of financial bubbles1 will not support him and will not contribute any money for the payment of election expenses1 because they are perfectly satisfied that they could not make any arrangements with him to get the money back1 together with interest thereon1 but the people of this country are intelligent enough to know what that means1 and they will be patriotic enough to see to it that no man needs to bow or bend or cringe to the rich to attain the highest place4 ,the possibility is that ,mr4 ,blaine could have been nominated had he not withdrawn1 but having withdrawn1 of course the party is released4 ,others were induced to become candidates1 and under these circumstances ,mr4 ,blaine has hardly the right to change his mind1 and certainly other persons ought not to change it for him4 ,question4 ,do you think that the friends of ,gresham would support ,blaine if he should be nominated8 ,answer4 ,undoubtedly they would4 ,if they go into convention they must abide the decision4 ,it would be dishonorable to do that which you would denounce in others4 ,whoever is nominated ought to receive the support of all good ,republicans4 ,no party can exist that will not be bound by its own decision4 ,when the platform is made1 then is the time to approve or reject4 ,the conscience of the individual cannot be bound by the action of party1 church or state4 ,but when you ask a convention to nominate your candidate1 you really agree to stand by the choice of the convention4 ,principles are of more importance than candidates4 ,as a rule1 men who refuse to support the nominee1 while pretending to believe in the platform1 are giving an excuse for going over to the enemy4 ,it is a pretence to cover desertion4 ,i hope that whoever may be nominated at ,chicago will receive the cordial support of the entire party1 of every man who believes in ,republican principles1 who believes in good wages for good work1 and has confidence in the old firms of ,mind and ,muscle1 of ,head and ,hand4 --,new ,york ,press1 ,may #bg1 #ahhh4 ,,labor1 ,,and ,,tariff ,,reform4 ,question4 ,what1 in your opinion1 is the condition of labor in this country as compared with that abroad8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 it is self-evident that if labor received more in other lands than in this the tide of emigration would be changed4 ,the workingmen would leave our shores4 ,people who believe in free trade are always telling us that the laboring man is paid much better in ,germany than in the ,united ,states1 and yet nearly every ship that comes from ,germany is crammed with ,germans1 who1 for some unaccountable reason1 prefer to leave a place where they are doing well and come to one where they must do worse4 ,the same thing can be said of ,denmark and ,sweden1 of ,england1 ,scotland1 ,ireland and of ,italy4 ,the truth is1 that in all those lands the laboring man can earn just enough to-day to do the work of to-morrow2 everything he earns is required to get food enough in his body and rags enough on his back to work from day to day1 to toil from week to week4 ,there are only three luxuries within his reach--air1 light1 and water2 probably a fourth might be added --death4 ,in those countries the few own the land1 the few have the capital1 the few make the laws1 and the laboring man is not a power4 ,his opinion in neither asked nor heeded4 ,the employers pay as little as they can4 ,when the world becomes civilized everybody will want to pay what things are worth1 but now capital is perfectly willing that labor shall remain at the starvation line4 ,competition on every hand tends to put down wages4 ,the time will come when the whole community will see that justice is economical4 ,if you starve laboring men you increase crime2 you multiply1 as they do in ,england1 workhouses1 hospitals and all kinds of asylums1 and these public institutions are for the purpose of taking care of the wrecks that have been produced by greed and stinginess and meanness--that is to say1 by the ignorance of capital4 ,question4 ,what effect has the protective tariff on the condition of labor in this country8 ,answer4 ,to the extent that the tariff keeps out the foreign article it is a direct protection to ,american labor4 ,everything in this country is on a larger scale than in any other4 ,there is far more generosity among the manufacturers and merchants and millionaires and capitalists of the ,united ,states than among those of any other country1 although they are bad enough and mean enough here4 ,but the great thing for the laboring man in the ,united ,states is that he is regarded as a man4 ,he is a unit of political power4 ,his vote counts just as much as that of the richest and most powerful4 ,the laboring man has to be consulted4 ,the candidate has either to be his friend or to pretend to be his friend1 before he can succeed4 ,a man running for the presidency could not say the slightest word against the laboring man1 or calculated to put a stain upon industry1 without destroying every possible chance of success4 ,generally1 every candidate tries to show that he is a laboring man1 or that he was a laboring man1 or that his father was before him4 ,there is in this country very little of the spirit of caste--the most infamous spirit that ever infested the heartless breast of the brainless head of a human being4 ,question4 ,what will be the effect on labor of a departure in ,american policy in the direction of free trade8 ,answer4 ,if free trade could be adopted to-morrow there would be an instant shrinkage of values in this country4 ,probably the immediate loss would equal twenty billion dollars--that is to say1 one-third of the value of the country4 ,no one can tell its extent4 ,all thing are so interwoven that to destroy one industry cripples another1 and the influence keeps on until it touches the circumference of human interests4 ,i believe that labor is a blessing4 ,it never was and never will be a curse4 ,it is a blessed thing to labor for your wife and children1 for your father and mother1 and for the ones you love4 ,it is a blessed thing to have an object in life--something to do-- something to call into play your best thoughts1 to develop your faculties and to make you a man4 ,how beautiful1 how charming1 are the dreams of the young mechanic1 the artist1 the musician1 the actor and the student4 ,how perfectly stupid must be the life of a young man with nothing to do1 no ambition1 no enthusiasm--that is to say1 nothing of the divine in him2 the young man with an object in life1 of whose brain a great thought1 a great dream has taken possession1 and in whose heart there is a great1 throbbing hope4 ,he looks forward to success--to wife1 children1 home--all the blessings and sacred joys of human life4 ,he thinks of wealth and fame and honor1 and of a long1 genial1 golden1 happy autumn4 ,work gives the feeling of independence1 of self-respect4 ,a man who does something necessarily puts a value on himself4 ,he feels that he is a part of the world's force4 ,the idler--no matter what he says1 no matter how scornfully he may look at the laborer--in his very heart knows exactly what he is2 he knows that he is a counterfeit1 a poor worthless imitation of a man4 ,but there is a vast difference between work and what ,i call toil4 ,what must be the life of a man who can earn only one dollar or two dollars a day8 ,if this man has a wife and a couple of children how can the family live8 ,what must they eat8 ,what must they wear8 ,from the cradle to the coffin they are ignorant of any luxury of life4 ,if the man is sick1 if one of the children dies1 how can doctors and medicines be paid for8 ,how can the coffin or the grave be purchased8 ,these people live on what might be called the snow line--just at that point where trees end and the mosses begin4 ,what are such lives worth8 ,the wages of months would hardly pay for the ordinary dinner of the family of a rich man4 ,the savings of a whole life would not purchase one fashionable dress1 or the lace on it4 ,such a man could not save enough during his whole life to pay for the flowers of a fashionable funeral4 ,and yet how often hundreds of thousands of persons1 who spend thousands of dollars every year on luxuries1 really wonder why the laboring people should complain4 ,they are astonished when a car driver objects to working fourteen hours a day4 ,men give millions of dollars to carry the gospel to the heathen1 and leave their own neighbors without bread2 and these same people insist on closing libraries and museums of art on ,sunday1 and yet ,sunday is the only day that these institutions can be visited by the poor4 ,they even want to stop the street cars so that these workers1 these men and women1 cannot go to the parks or the fields on ,sunday4 ,they want stages stopped on fashionable avenues so that the rich may not be disturbed in their prayers and devotions4 ,the condition of the workingman1 even in ,america1 is bad enough4 ,if free trade will not reduce wages what will8 ,if manufactured articles become cheaper the skilled laborers of ,america must work cheaper or stop producing the articles4 ,every one knows that most of the value of a manufactured article comes from labor4 ,think of the difference between the value of a pound of cotton and a pound of the finest cotton cloth2 between a pound of flax and enough point lace to weigh a pound2 between a few ounces of paint1 two or three yards of canvas and a great picture2 between a block of stone and a statue6 ,labor is the principal factor in price2 when the price falls wages must go down4 ,i do not claim that protection is for the benefit of any particular class1 but that it is for the benefit not only of that particular class1 but of the entire country4 ,in ,england the common laborer expects to spend his old age in some workhouse4 ,he is cheered through all his days of toil1 through all his years of weariness1 by the prospect of dying a respectable pauper4 ,the women work as hard as the men4 ,they toil in the iron mills4 ,they make nails1 they dig coal1 they toil in the fields4 ,in ,europe they carry the hod1 they work like beasts and with beasts1 until they lose almost the semblance of human beings--until they look inferior to the animals they drive4 ,on the labor of these deformed mothers1 of these bent and wrinkled girls1 of little boys with the faces of old age1 the heartless nobility live in splendor and extravagant idleness4 ,i am not now speaking of the ,french people1 as ,france is the most prosperous country in ,europe4 ,let us protect our mothers1 our wives and our children from the deformity of toil1 from the depths of poverty4 ,question4 ,is not the ballot an assurance to the laboring man that he can get fair treatment from his employer8 ,answer4 ,the laboring man in this country has the political power1 provided he has the intelligence to know it and the intelligence to use it4 ,in so far as laws can assist labor1 the workingman has it in his power to pass such laws2 but in most foreign lands the laboring man has really no voice4 ,it is enough for him to work and wait and suffer and emigrate4 ,he can take refuge in the grave or go to ,america4 ,in the old country1 where people have been taught that all blessing come from the king1 it is very natural for the poor to believe the other side of that proposition--that is to say1 all evils come from the king1 from the government4 ,they are rocked in the cradle of this falsehood4 ,so when they come to this country1 if they are unfortunate1 it is natural for them to blame the ,government4 ,the discussion of these questions1 however1 has already done great good4 ,the workingman is becoming more and more intelligent4 ,he is getting a better idea every day of the functions and powers and limitations of government1 and if the problem is ever worked out-- and by problem ,i mean the just and due relations that should exist between labor and capital--it will be worked out here in ,america4 ,question4 ,what assurance has the ,american laborer that he will not be ultimately swamped by foreign immigration8 ,answer4 ,most of the immigrants that come to ,american come because they want a home4 ,nearly every one of them is what you may call land hungry4 ,in his country1 to own a piece of land was to be respectable1 almost a nobleman4 ,the owner of a little land was regarded as the founder of a family--what you might call a village dynasty4 ,when they leave their native shores for ,america1 their dream is to become a land owner--to have fields1 to own trees1 and to listen to the music of their own brooks4 ,the moment they arrive the mass of them seek the ,west1 where land can be obtained4 ,the great ,northwest now is being filled with ,scandinavian farmers1 with persons from every part of ,germany--in fact from all foreign countries--and every year they are adding millions of acres to the plowed fields of the ,republic4 ,this land hunger1 this desire to own a home1 to have a field1 to have flocks and herds1 to sit under your own vine and fig tree1 will prevent foreign immigration from interfering to any hurtful degree with the skilled workmen of ,america4 ,these land owners1 these farmers1 become consumers of manufactured articles4 ,they keep the wheels and spindles turning and the fires in the forges burning4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,cleveland's message8 ,answer4 ,only the other day ,i read a speech made by the ,hon4 ,william ,d4 ,kelley1 of ,pennsylvania1 upon this subject1 in which he says in answer to what he calls the puerile absurdity of ,president ,cleveland's assumption that the duty is always added to the cost1 not only of imported commodities1 but to the price of like commodities produced in this country1 that the duties imposed by our ,government on sugar reduced to ad valorem were never so high as now1 and the price of sugar was never in this country so low as it is now4 ,he also showed that this tax on sugar has made it possible for us to produce sugar from other plants and he gives the facts in relation to corn sugar4 ,we are now using annually nineteen million bushels of corn for the purpose of making glucose or corn sugar4 ,he shows that in this industry alone there has been a capital invested of eleven million dollars2 that seven hundred and thirty-two thousand acres of land are required to furnish the supply1 and that this one industry now gives employment to about twenty-two thousand farmers1 about five thousand laborers in factories1 and that the annual value of this product of corn sugar is over seventeen million dollars4 ,he also shows what we may expect from the cultivation of the beet4 ,i advise every one to read that speech1 so that they may have some idea of the capabilities of this country1 of the vast wealth asking for development1 of the countless avenues opened for ingenuity1 energy and intelligence4 ,question4 ,does the protective tariff cheapen the prices of commodities to the laboring man8 ,answer4 ,in this there are involved two questions4 ,if the tariff is so low that the foreign article is imported1 of course this tariff is added to the cost and must be paid by the consumer2 but if the protective tariff is so high that the importer cannot pay it1 and as a consequence the article is produced in ,america1 then it depends largely upon competition whether the full amount of the tariff will be added to the article4 ,as a rule1 competition will settle that question in ,america1 and the article will be sold as cheaply as the producers can afford4 ,for instance3 ,if there is a tariff1 we will say of fifty cents on a pair of shoes1 and this tariff is so low that the foreign article can afford to pay it1 then that tariff1 of course1 must be paid by the consumer4 ,but suppose the tariff was five dollars on a pair of shoes--that is to say1 absolutely prohibitory--does any man in his senses say that five dollars would be added to each pair of ,american shoes8 ,of course1 the statement is the answer4 ,i think it is the duty of the laboring man in this country1 first1 thoroughly to post himself upon these great questions1 to endeavor to understand his own interest as well as the interest of his country1 and if he does1 ,i believe he will arrive at the conclusion that it is far better to have the country filled with manufacturers than to be employed simply in the raising of raw material4 ,i think he will come to the conclusion that we had better have skilled labor here1 and that it is better to pay for it than not to have it4 ,i think he will find that it is better for ,america to be substantially independent of the rest of the world4 ,i think he will conclude that nothing is more desirable than the development of ,american brain1 and that nothing better can be raised than great and splendid men and women4 ,i think he will conclude that the cloud coming from the factories1 from the great stacks and chimneys1 is the cloud on which will be seen1 and always seen1 the bow of ,american promise4 ,question4 ,what have you to say about tariff reform8 ,answer4 ,i have this to say3 ,that the tariff is for the most part the result of compromises--that is1 one ,state wishing to have something protected agrees to protect something else in some other ,state1 so that1 as a matter of fact1 many things are protected that need no protection1 and many things are unprotected that ought to be cared for by the ,government4 ,i am in favor of a sensible reform of the tariff--that is to say1 ,i do not wish to put it in the power of the few to practice extortion upon the many4 ,congress should always be wide awake1 and whenever there is any abuse it should be corrected4 ,at the same time1 next to having the tariff just--next in importance is to have it stable4 ,it does us great injury to have every dollar invested in manufactures frightened every time ,congress meets4 ,capital should feel secure4 ,insecurity calls for a higher interest1 wants to make up for the additional risk1 whereas1 when a dollar feels absolutely certain that it is well invested1 that it is not to be disturbed1 it is satisfied with a very low rate of interest4 ,the present agitation--the message of ,president ,cleveland upon these questions--will cost the country many hundred millions of dollars4 ,question4 ,i see that some one has been charging that ,judge ,gresham is an ,infidel8 ,answer4 ,i have known ,judge ,gresham for many years1 and of course have heard him talk upon many subjects1 but ,i do not remember ever discussing with him a religious topic4 ,i only know that he believes in allowing every man to express his opinions1 and that he does not hate a man because he differs with him4 ,i believe that he believes in intellectual hospitality1 and that he would give all churches equal rights1 and would treat them all with the utmost fairness4 ,i regard him as a fair-minded1 intelligent and honest man1 and that is enough for me4 ,i am satisfied with the way he acts1 and care nothing about his particular creed4 ,i like a manly man1 whether he agrees with me or not4 ,i believe that ,president ,garfield was a minister of the ,church of the ,disciples--that made no difference to me4 ,mr4 ,blaine is a member of some church in ,augusta--,i care nothing for that4 ,whether ,judge ,gresham belongs to any church1 ,i do not know4 ,i never asked him1 but ,i know he does not agree with me by a large majority4 ,in this country1 where a divorce has been granted between church and state1 the religious opinions of candidates should be let alone4 ,to make the inquiry is a piece of impertinence--a piece of impudence4 ,i have voted for men of all persuasions and expect to keep right on1 and if they are not civilized enough to give me the liberty they ask for themselves1 why ,i shall simply set them an example of decency4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the political outlook8 ,answer4 ,the people of this country have a great deal of intelligence4 ,tariff and free trade and protection and home manufactures and ,american industries--all these things will be discussed in every schoolhouse of the country1 and in thousands and thousands of political meetings1 and when next ,november comes you will see the ,democratic party overthrown and swept out of power by a cyclone4 ,all other questions will be lost sight of4 ,even the ,prohibitionists would rather drink beer in a prosperous country than burst with cold water and hard times4 ,the preservation of what we have will be the great question4 ,this is the richest country and the most prosperous country1 and ,i believe that the people have sense enough to continue the policy that has given them those results4 ,i never want to see the civilization of the ,old ,world1 or rather the barbarism of the ,old ,world1 gain a footing on this continent4 ,i am an ,american4 ,i believe in ,american ideas--that is to say1 in equal rights1 and in the education and civilization of all the people4 --,new ,york ,press1 ,june #c1 #ahhh4 ,,cleveland ,,and ,,thurman4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,democratic nominations8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 ,i hope that this campaign is to be fought on the issues involved1 and not on the private characters of the candidates4 ,all that they have done as politicians--all measures that they have favored or opposed--these are the proper subjects of criticism2 in all other respects ,i think it better to let the candidates alone4 ,i care but little about the private character of ,mr4 ,cleveland or of ,mr4 ,thurman4 ,the real question is1 what do they stand for8 ,what policy do they advocate8 ,what are the reasons for and against the adoption of the policy they propose8 ,i do not regard ,cleveland as personally popular4 ,he has done nothing1 so far as ,i know1 calculated to endear him to the popular heart4 ,he certainly is not a man of enthusiasm4 ,he has said nothing of a striking or forcible character4 ,his messages are exceedingly commonplace4 ,he is not a man of education1 of wide reading1 of refined tastes1 or of general cultivation4 ,he has some firmness and a good deal of obstinacy1 and he was exceedingly fortunate in his marriage4 ,four years ago he was distinctly opposed to a second term4 ,he was then satisfied that no man should be elected ,president more than once4 ,he was then fearful that a ,president might use his office1 his appointing power1 to further his own ends instead of for the good of the people4 ,he started1 undoubtedly1 with that idea in his mind4 ,he was going to carry out the civil service doctrine to the utmost4 ,but when he had been ,president a few months he was exceedingly unpopular with his party4 ,the ,democrats who elected him had been out of office for twenty-five years4 ,during all those years they had watched the ,republicans sitting at the national banquet4 ,their appetites had grown keener and keener1 and they expected when the #dth of ,march1 #ahhe1 came that the ,republicans would be sent from the table and that they would be allowed to tuck the napkins under their chins4 ,the moment ,cleveland got at the head of the table he told his hungry followers that there was nothing for them1 and he allowed the ,republicans to go on as usual4 ,in a little while he began to hope for a second term1 and gradually the civil service notion faded from his mind4 ,he stuck to it long enough to get the principal mugwump papers committed to him and to his policy2 long enough to draw their fire and to put them in a place where they could not honorably retreat without making themselves liable to the charge of having fought only for the loaves and fishes4 ,as a matter of fact1 no men were hungrier for office than the gentlemen who had done so much for civil service reform4 ,they were so earnest in the advocacy of that principle that they insisted that only their followers should have place2 but the real rank and file1 the men who had been ,democrats through all the disastrous years1 and who had prayed and fasted1 became utterly disgusted with ,mr4 ,cleveland's administration and they were not slow to express their feelings4 ,mr4 ,cleveland saw that he was in danger of being left with no supporters1 except a few who thought themselves too respectable really to join the ,democratic party4 ,so for the last two years1 and especially the last year1 he turned his attention to pacifying the real ,democrats4 ,he is not the choice of the ,democratic party4 ,although unanimously nominated1 ,i doubt if he was the unanimous choice of a single delegate4 ,another very great mistake1 ,i think1 has been made by ,mr4 ,cleveland4 ,he seems to have taken the greatest delight in vetoing pension bills1 and they seem to be about the only bills he has examined1 and he has examined them as a lawyer would examine the declaration1 brief or plea of his opponent4 ,he has sought for technicalities1 to the end that he might veto these bills4 ,by this course he has lost the soldier vote1 and there is no way by which he can regain it4 ,upon this point ,i regard the ,president as exceedingly weak4 ,he has shown about the same feeling toward the soldier now that he did during the war4 ,he was not with them then either in mind or body4 ,he is not with them now4 ,his sympathies are on the other side4 ,he has taken occasion to show his contempt for the ,democratic party again and again4 ,this certainly will not add to his strength4 ,he has treated the old leaders with great arrogance4 ,he has cared nothing for their advice1 for their opinions1 or for their feelings4 ,the principal vestige of monarchy or despotism in our ,constitution is the veto power1 and this has been more liberally used by ,mr4 ,cleveland than by any other ,president4 ,this shows the nature of the man and how narrow he is1 and through what a small intellectual aperture he views the world4 ,nothing is farther from true democracy than this perpetual application of the veto power4 ,as a matter of fact1 it should be abolished1 and the utmost that a ,president should be allowed to do1 would be to return a bill with his objections1 and the bill should then become a law upon being passed by both houses by a simple majority4 ,this would give the ,executive the opportunity of calling attention to the supposed defects1 and getting the judgment of ,congress a second time4 ,i am perfectly satisfied that ,mr4 ,cleveland is not popular with his party4 ,the noise and confusion of the convention1 the cheers and cries1 were all produced and manufactured for effect and for the purpose of starting the campaign4 ,now1 as to ,senator ,thurman4 ,during the war he occupied substantially the same position occupied by ,mr4 ,cleveland4 ,he was opposed to putting down the ,rebellion by force1 and as ,i remember it1 he rather justified the people of the ,south for going with their ,states4 ,ohio was in favor of putting down the ,rebellion1 yet ,mr4 ,thurman1 by some peculiar logic of his own1 while he justified ,southern people for going into rebellion because they followed their ,states1 justified himself for not following his ,state4 ,his ,state was for the ,union4 ,his ,state was in favor of putting down rebellion4 ,his ,state was in favor of destroying slavery4 ,certainly1 if a man is bound to follow his ,state1 he is equally bound when the ,state is right4 ,it is hardly reasonable to say that a man is only bound to follow his ,state when his ,state is wrong2 yet this was really the position of ,senator ,thurman4 ,i saw the other day that some gentlemen in this city had given as a reason for thinking that ,thurman would strengthen the ticket1 that he had always been right on the financial question4 ,now1 as a matter of fact1 he was always wrong4 ,when it was necessary for the ,government to issue greenbacks1 he was a hard money man--he believed in the mint drops--and if that policy had been carried out1 the ,rebellion could not have been suppressed4 ,after the suppression of the ,rebellion1 and when hundreds and hundreds of millions of greenbacks were afloat1 and the ,republican party proposed to redeem them in gold1 and to go back--as it always intended to do--to hard money--to a gold and silver basis--then ,senator ,thurman1 holding aloft the red bandanna1 repudiated hard money1 opposed resumption1 and came out for rag currency as being the best4 ,let him change his ideas--put those first that he had last--and you might say that he was right on the currency question2 but when the country needed the greenback he was opposed to it1 and when the country was able to redeem the greenback1 he was opposed to it4 ,it gives me pleasure to say that ,i regard ,senator ,thurman as a man of ability1 and ,i have no doubt that he was coaxed into his last financial position by the ,democratic party1 by the necessities of ,ohio1 and by the force and direction of the political wind4 ,no matter how much respectability he adds to the ticket1 ,i do not believe that he will give any great strength4 ,in the first place1 he is an old man4 ,he has substantially finished his career4 ,young men cannot attach themselves to him1 because he has no future4 ,his following is not an army of the young and ambitious--it is rather a funeral procession4 ,yet1 notwithstanding this fact1 he will furnish most of the enthusiasm for this campaign--and that will be done with his handkerchief4 ,the ,democratic banner is ,thurman's red bandanna4 ,i do not believe that it will be possible for the ,democracy to carry ,ohio by reason of ,thurman's nomination1 and ,i think the failure to nominate ,gray or some good man from that ,state1 will lose ,indiana4 ,so1 while ,i have nothing to say against ,senator ,thurman1 nothing against his integrity or his ability1 still1 under the circumstances1 ,i do not think his nomination a strong one4 ,question4 ,do you think that the nominations have been well received throughout the ,united ,states8 ,answer4 ,not as well as in ,england4 ,i see that all the ,tory papers regard the nominations as excellent--especially that of ,cleveland4 ,every ,englishman who wants ,ireland turned into a penitentiary1 and every ,irishman to be treated as a convict1 is delighted with the action of the ,st4 ,louis convention4 ,england knows what she wants4 ,her market is growing small4 ,a few years ago she furnished manufactured articles to a vast portion of the world4 ,millions of her customers have become ingenious enough to manufacture many things that they need1 so the next thing ,england did was to sell them the machinery4 ,now they are beginning to make their own machinery4 ,consequently1 ,english trade is falling off4 ,she must have new customers4 ,nothing would so gratify her as to have sixty millions of ,americans buy her wares4 ,if she could see our factories still and dead2 if she could put out the fires of our furnaces and forges2 there would come to her the greatest prosperity she has ever known4 ,she would fatten on our misfortunes --grow rich and powerful and arrogant upon our poverty4 ,we would become her servants4 ,we would raise the raw material with ignorant labor and allow her children to reap all the profit of its manufacture1 and in the meantime to become intelligent and cultured while we grew poor and ignorant4 ,the greatest blow that can be inflicted upon ,england is to keep her manufactured articles out of the ,united ,states4 ,sixty millions of ,americans buy and use more than five hundred millions of ,asiatics --buy and use more than all of ,china1 all of ,india and all of ,africa4 ,one civilized man has a thousand times the wants of a savage or of a semi-barbarian4 ,most of the customers of ,england want a few yards of calico1 some cheap jewelry1 a little powder1 a few knives and a few gallons of orthodox rum4 ,to-day the ,united ,states is the greatest market in the world4 ,the commerce between the ,states is almost inconceivable in its immensity4 ,in order that you may have some idea of the commerce of this country1 it is only necessary to remember one fact4 ,we have railroads enough engaged in this commerce to make six lines around the globe4 ,the addition of a million ,americans to our population gives us a better market than a monopoly of ten millions of ,asiatics4 ,england1 with her workhouses1 with her labor that barely exists1 wishes this market1 and wishes to destroy the manufactures of ,america1 and she expects ,irish-,americans to assist her in this patriotic business4 ,now1 as to the enthusiasm in this country4 ,i fail to see it4 ,the nominations have fallen flat4 ,it has been known for a long time that ,cleveland was to be nominated4 ,that has all been discounted1 and the nomination of ,judge ,thurman has been received in a quite matter-of-fact way4 ,it may be that his enthusiasm was somewhat dampened by what might be called the appearance above the horizon of the morning star of this campaign--,oregon4 ,what a star to rise over the work of the ,st4 ,louis convention6 ,what a prophecy for ,democrats to commence business with6 ,oregon1 with the free trade issue1 seven thousand to eight thousand ,republican majority--the largest ever given by that ,state--,oregon speaks for the ,pacific ,coast4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,democratic platform8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,watterson was kind enough to say that before they took the roof off of the house they were going to give the occupants a chance to get out4 ,by the house ,i suppose he means the great workshop of ,america4 ,by the roof he means protection2 and by the occupants the mechanics4 ,he is not going to turn them out at once1 or take the roof off in an instant1 but this is to be done gradually4 ,in other words1 they will remove it shingle by shingle or tile by tile1 until it becomes so leaky or so unsafe that the occupants-- that is to say1 the mechanics1 will leave the building4 ,the first thing in the platform is a reaffirmation of the platform of #ahhd1 and an unqualified endorsement of ,president ,cleveland's message on the tariff4 ,and if ,president ,cleveland's message has any meaning whatever1 it means free trade--not instantly1 it may be--but that is the object and the end to be attained4 ,all his reasoning1 if reasoning it can be called1 is in favor of absolute free trade4 ,the issue is fairly made--shall ,american labor be protected1 or must the ,american laborer take his chances with the labor market of the world8 ,must he stand upon an exact par with the laborers of ,belgium and ,england and ,germany1 not only1 but with the slaves and serfs of other countries8 ,must he be reduced to the diet of the old country8 ,is he to have meat on holidays and a reasonably good dinner on ,christmas1 and live the rest of the year on crusts1 crumbs1 scraps1 skimmed milk1 potatoes1 turnips1 and a few greens that he can steal from the corners of fences8 ,is he to rely for meat1 on poaching1 and then is he to be transported to some far colony for the crime of catching a rabbit8 ,are our workingmen to wear wooden shoes8 ,now1 understand me1 ,i do not believe that the ,democrats think that free trade would result in disaster4 ,their minds are so constituted that they really believe that free trade would be a great blessing4 ,i am not calling in question their honesty4 ,i am simply disputing the correctness of their theory4 ,it makes no difference1 as a matter of fact1 whether they are honest or dishonest4 ,free trade established by honest people would be just as injurious as if established by dishonest people4 ,so there is no necessity of raising the question of intention4 ,consequently1 ,i admit that they are doing the best they know now4 ,this is not admitting much1 but it is something1 as it tends to take from the discussion all ill feeling4 ,we all know that the tariff protects special interests in particular ,states4 ,louisiana is not for free trade4 ,it may be for free trade in everything except sugar4 ,it is willing that the rest of the country should pay an additional cent or two a pound on sugar for its benefit1 and while receiving the benefit it does not wish to bear its part of the burden4 ,if the other ,states protect the sugar interests in ,louisiana1 certainly that ,state ought to be willing to protect the wool interest in ,ohio1 the lead and hemp interest in ,missouri1 the lead and wool interest in ,colorado1 the lumber interest in ,minnesota1 the salt and lumber interest in ,michigan1 the iron interest in ,pennsylvania1 and so ,i might go on with a list of the ,states--because each one has something that it wishes to have protected4 ,it sounds a little strange to hear a ,democratic convention cry out that the party is in favor of the maintenance of an indissoluble union of free and indestructible ,states4 ,only a little while ago the ,democratic party regarded it as the height of tyranny to coerce a free ,state4 ,can it be said that a ,state is free that is absolutely governed by the ,nation8 ,is a ,state free that can make no treaty with any other ,state or country--that is not permitted to coin money or to declare war8 ,why should such a ,state be called free8 ,the truth is that the ,states are not free in that sense4 ,the ,republican party believes that this is a ,nation and that the national power is the highest1 and that every citizen owes the highest allegiance to the ,general ,government and not to his ,state4 ,in other words1 we are not ,virginians or ,mississippians or ,delawareans --we are ,americans4 ,the great ,republic is a free ,nation1 and the ,states are but parts of that ,nation4 ,the doctrine of ,state ,sovereignty was born of the institution of slavery4 ,in the history of our country1 whenever anything wrong was to be done1 this doctrine of ,state ,sovereignty was appealed to4 ,it protected the slave-trade until the year #ahjh4 ,it passed the ,fugitive ,slave ,law4 ,it made every citizen in the ,north a catcher of his fellow-man--made it the duty of free people to enslave others4 ,this doctrine of ,state ,rights was appealed to for the purpose of polluting the ,territories with the institution of slavery4 ,to deprive a man of his liberty1 to put him back into slavery1 ,state lines were instantly obliterated2 but whenever the ,government wanted to protect one of its citizens from outrage1 then the ,state lines became impassable barriers1 and the sword of justice fell in twain across the line of a ,state4 ,people forget that the ,national ,government is the creature of the people4 ,the real sovereign is the people themselves4 ,presidents and congressmen and judges are the creatures of the people4 ,if we had a governing class--if men were presidents or senators by virtue of birth--then we might talk about the danger of centralization2 but if the people are sufficiently intelligent to govern themselves1 they will never create a government for the destruction of their liberties1 and they are just as able to protect their rights in the ,general ,government as they are in the ,states4 ,if you say that the sovereignty of the ,state protects labor1 you might as well say that the sovereignty of the county protects labor in the ,state and that the sovereignty of the town protects labor in the county4 ,of all subjects in the world the ,democratic party should avoid speaking of a critical period of our financial affairs1 resulting from over taxation4 ,how did taxation become necessary8 ,who created the vast debt that ,american labor must pay8 ,who made this taxation of thousands of millions necessary8 ,why were the greenbacks issued8 ,why were the bonds sold8 ,who brought about a critical period of our financial affairs8 ,how has the ,democratic party averted disaster8 ,how could there be a disaster with a vast surplus in the treasury8 ,can you find in the graveyard of nations this epitaph3 ,died of a ,surplus8 ,has any nation ever been known to perish because it had too much gold and too much silver1 and because its credit was better than that of any other nation on the earth8 ,the ,democrats seem to think--and it is greatly to their credit--that they have prevented the destruction of the ,government when the treasury was full--when the vaults were overflowing4 ,what would they have done had the vaults been empty8 ,let them wrestle with the question of poverty2 let them then see how the ,democratic party would succeed4 ,when it is necessary to create credit1 to inspire confidence1 not only in our own people1 but in the nations of the world--which of the parties is best adapted for the task8 ,the ,democratic party congratulates itself that it has not been ruined by a ,republican surplus6 ,what good boys we are6 ,we have not been able to throw away our legacy6 ,is it not a little curious that the convention plumed itself on having paid out more for pensions and bounties to the soldiers and sailors of the ,republic than was ever paid before during an equal period8 ,it goes wild in its pretended enthusiasm for the ,president who has vetoed more pension bills than all the other ,presidents put together4 ,the platform informs us that the ,democratic party has adopted and consistently pursued and affirmed a prudent foreign policy1 preserving peace with all nations4 ,does it point with pride to the ,mexican fiasco1 or does it rely entirely upon the great fishery triumph8 ,what has the administration done--what has it accomplished in the field of diplomacy8 ,when we come to civil service1 about how many ,federal officials were at the ,st4 ,louis convention8 ,about how many have taken part in the recent nominations8 ,in other words1 who has been idle8 ,we have recently been told that the wages of workingmen are just as high in the old country as in this1 when you take into consideration the cost of living4 ,we have always been told by all the free trade papers and orators1 that the tariff has no bearing whatever upon wages1 and yet1 the ,democrats have not succeeded in convincing themselves4 ,i find in their platform this language3 ,a fair and careful revision of our tax laws1 with due allowance for the difference between the wages of ,american and foreign labor1 must promote and encourage every branch of such industries and enterprises by giving them the assurance of an extended market and steady and continuous operations4 ,it would seem from this that the ,democratic party admits that wages are higher here than in foreign countries4 ,certainly they do not mean to say that they are lower4 ,if they are higher here than in foreign countries1 the question arises1 why are they higher8 ,if you took off the tariff1 the presumption is that they would be as low here as anywhere else1 because this very ,democratic convention says3 ,a fair and careful revision of our tax laws1 with due allowance for the difference between wages4 ,in other words1 they would keep tariff enough on to protect our workingmen from the low wages of the foreigner--consequently1 we have the admission of the ,democratic party that in order to keep wages in this country higher than they are in ,belgium1 in ,italy1 in ,england and in ,germany1 we must protect home labor4 ,then follows the non sequitur1 which is a ,democratic earmark4 ,they tell us that by keeping a tariff1 making due allowance for the difference between wages1 all the industries and enterprises would be encouraged and promoted by giving them the assurance of an extended market4 ,what does the word extended mean8 ,if it means anything1 it means a market in other countries4 ,in other words1 we will put the tariff so low that the wages of ,american workingmen will be so low that he can compete with the laborers of other countries2 otherwise his market could not be extended4 ,what does this mean8 ,there is evidently a lack of thought here4 ,the two things cannot be accomplished in that way4 ,if the tariff raises ,american wages1 the ,american cannot compete in foreign markets with the men who work for half the price4 ,what may be the final result is another question4 ,american industry properly protected1 ,american genius properly fostered1 may invent ways and means--such wonderful machinery1 such quick1 inexpensive processes1 that in time ,american genius may produce at a less rate than any other country1 for the reason that the laborers of other countries will not be as intelligent1 will not be as independent1 will not have the same ambition4 ,fine phrases will not deceive the people of this country4 ,the ,american mechanic already has a market of sixty millions of people1 and1 as ,i said before1 the best market in the world4 ,this country is now so rich1 so prosperous1 that it is the greatest market of the earth1 even for luxuries4 ,it is the best market for pictures1 for works of art4 ,it is the best market for music and song4 ,it is the best market for dramatic genius1 and it is the best market for skilled labor1 the best market for common labor1 and in this country the poor man to-day has the best chance--he can look forward to becoming the proprietor of a home1 of some land1 to independence1 to respectability1 and to an old age without want and without disgrace4 ,the platform1 except upon this question of free trade1 means very little4 ,there are other features in it which ,i have not at present time to examine1 but shall do so hereafter4 ,i want to take it up point by point and find really what it means1 what its scope is1 and what the intentions were of the gentlemen who made it4 ,but it may be proper to say here1 that in my judgment it is a very weak and flimsy document1 as ,victor ,hugo would say1 badly cut and badly sewed4 ,of course1 ,i know that the country will exist whatever party may be in power4 ,i know that all our blessings do not come from laws1 or from the carrying into effect of certain policies1 and probably ,i could pay no greater compliment to any country than to say that even eight years of ,democratic rule cannot materially affect her destiny4 --,new ,york ,press1 ,june #aj1 #ahhh4 ,,the ,,republican ,,platform ,,of #ahhh4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the signs of the times so far as the campaign has progressed8 ,answer4 ,the party is now going through a period of misrepresentation4 ,every absurd meaning that can be given to any combination of words will be given to every plank of the platform4 ,in the heat of partisan hatred every plank will look warped and cracked4 ,a great effort is being made to show that the ,republican party is in favor of intemperance1--that the great object now is to lessen the price of all intoxicants and increase the cost of all the necessaries of life4 ,the papers that are for nothing but reform of everything and everybody except themselves1 are doing their utmost to show that the ,republican party is the enemy of honesty and temperance4 ,the other day1 at a ,republican ratification meeting1 ,i stated among other things1 that we could not make great men and great women simply by keeping them out of temptation--that nobody would think of tying the hands of a person behind them and then praise him for not picking pockets2 that great people were great enough to withstand temptation1 and in that connection ,i made this statement3 ,temperance goes hand in hand with liberty--the idea being that when a chain is taken from the body an additional obligation is perceived by the mind4 ,these good papers--the papers that believe in honest politics--stated that ,i said3 ,temperance goes hand in hand with liquor4 ,this was not only in the reports of the meeting1 but this passage was made the subject of several editorials4 ,it hardly seems possible that any person really thought that such a statement had been expressed4 ,the ,republican party does not want free whiskey --it wants free men2 and a great many people in the ,republican party are great enough to know that temperance does go hand in hand with liberty2 they are great enough to know that all legislation as to what we shall eat1 as to what we shall drink1 and as to wherewithal we shall be clothed1 partakes of the nature of petty1 irritating and annoying tyranny4 ,they also know that the natural result is to fill a country with spies1 hypocrites and pretenders1 and that when a law is not in accordance with an enlightened public sentiment1 it becomes either a dead letter1 or1 when a few fanatics endeavor to enforce it1 a demoralizer of courts1 of juries and of people4 ,the attack upon the platform by temperance people is doing no harm1 for the reason that long before ,november comes these people will see the mistake they have made4 ,it seems somewhat curious that the ,democrats should attack the platform if they really believe that it means free whiskey4 ,the tax was levied during the war4 ,it was a war measure4 ,the ,government was in extremis1 and for that reason was obliged to obtain a revenue from every possible article of value4 ,the war is over2 the necessity has disappeared2 consequently the ,government should return to the methods of peace4 ,we have too many ,government officials4 ,let us get rid of collectors and gaugers and inspectors4 ,let us do away with all this machinery1 and leave the question to be settled by the ,state4 ,if the temperance people themselves would take a second thought1 they would see that when the ,government collects eighty or ninety million dollars from a tax on whiskey1 the traffic becomes entrenched1 it becomes one of the pillars of the ,state1 one of the great sources of revenue4 ,let the ,states attend to this question1 and it will be a matter far easier to deal with4 ,the ,prohibitionists are undoubtedly honest1 and their object is to destroy the traffic1 to prevent the manufacture of whiskey4 ,can they do this as long as the ,government collects ninety million dollars per annum from that one source8 ,if there is anything whatever in this argument1 is it not that the traffic pays a bribe of ninety million dollars a year for its life8 ,will not the farmers say to the temperance men3 ,the distilleries pay the taxes1 the distilleries raise the price of corn2 is it not better for the ,general ,government to look to another direction for its revenues and leave the ,states to deal as they may see proper with this question8 ,with me1 it makes no difference what is done with the liquor-- whether it is used in the arts or not--it is a question of policy4 ,there is no moral principle involved on our side of the question1 to say the least of it4 ,if it is a crime to make and sell intoxicating liquors1 the ,government1 by licensing persons to make and sell1 becomes a party to the crime4 ,if one man poisons another1 no matter how much the poison costs1 the crime is the same2 and if the person from whom the poison was purchased knew how it was to be used1 he is also a murderer4 ,there have been many reformers in this world1 and they have seemed to imagine that people will do as they say4 ,they think that you can use people as you do bricks or stones2 that you can lay them up in walls and they will remain where they are placed2 but the truth is1 you cannot do this4 ,the bricks are not satisfied with each other--they go away in the night--in the morning there is no wall4 ,most of these reformers go up what you might call the ,mount ,sinai of their own egotism1 and there1 surrounded by the clouds of their own ignorance1 they meditate upon the follies and the frailties of their fellow-men and then come down with ten commandments for their neighbors4 ,all this talk about the ,republican platform being in favor of intemperance1 so far as the ,democratic party is concerned1 is pure1 unadulterated hypocrisy--nothing more1 nothing less4 ,so far as the ,prohibitionists are concerned1 they may be perfectly honest1 but1 if they will think a moment1 they will see how perfectly illogical they are4 ,no one can help sympathizing with any effort honestly made to do away with the evil of intemperance4 ,i know that many believe that these evils can be done away with by legislation4 ,while ,i sympathize with the objects that these people wish to attain1 ,i do not believe in the means they suggest4 ,as life becomes valuable1 people will become temperate1 because they will take care of themselves4 ,temperance is born of the countless influences of civilization4 ,character cannot be forced upon anybody2 it is a growth1 the seeds of which are within4 ,men cannot be forced into real temperance any more than they can be frightened into real morality4 ,you may frighten a man to that degree that he will not do a certain thing1 but you cannot scare him badly enough to prevent his wanting to do that thing4 ,reformation begins on the inside1 and the man refrains because he perceives that he ought to refrain1 not because his neighbors say that he ought to refrain4 ,no one would think of praising convicts in jail for being regular at their meals1 or for not staying out nights2 and it seems to me that when the ,prohibitionists--when the people who are really in favor of temperance--look the ground all over they will see that it is far better to support the ,republican party than to throw their votes away2 and the ,republicans will see that it is simply a proposition to go back to the original methods of collecting revenue for the ,government--that it is simply abandoning the measures made necessary by war1 and that it is giving to the people the largest liberty consistent with the needs of the ,government1 and that it is only leaving these questions where in time of peace they properly belong --to the ,states themselves4 ,question4 ,do you think that the ,knights of ,labor will cut any material figure in this election8 ,answer4 ,the ,knights of ,labor will probably occupy substantially the same position as other laborers and other mechanics4 ,if they clearly see that the policy advocated by the ,republican party is to their interest1 that it will give them better wages than the policy advocated by the ,democrats1 then they will undoubtedly support our ticket4 ,there is more or less irritation between employers and employed4 ,all men engaged in manufacturing and neither good nor generous4 ,many of them get work for as little as possible1 and sell its product for all they can get4 ,it is impossible to adopt a policy that will not by such people be abused4 ,many of them would like to see the working man toil for twelve hours or fourteen or sixteen in each day4 ,many of them wonder why they need sleep or food1 and are perfectly astonished when they ask for pay4 ,in some instances1 undoubtedly1 the working men will vote against their own interests simply to get even with such employers4 ,some laboring men have been so robbed1 so tyrannized over1 that they would be perfectly willing to feel for the pillars and take a certain delight in a destruction that brought ruin even to themselves4 ,such manufacturers1 however1 ,i believe to be in a minority1 and the laboring men1 under the policy of free trade1 would be far more in their power4 ,when wages fall below a certain point1 then comes degradation1 loss of manhood1 serfdom and slavery4 ,if any man has the right to vote for his own interests1 certainly the man who labors is that man1 and every working man having in his will a part of the sovereignty of this nation1 having within him a part of the lawmaking power1 should have the intelligence and courage to vote for his own interests2 he should vote for good wages2 he should vote for a policy that would enable him to lay something by for the winter of his life1 that would enable him to earn enough to educate his children1 enough to give him a home and a fireside4 ,he need not do this in anger or for revenge1 but because it is just1 because it is right1 and because the working people are in a majority4 ,they ought to control the world1 because they have made the world what it is4 ,they have given everything there is of value4 ,labor plows every field1 builds every house1 fashions everything of use1 and when that labor is guided by intelligence the world is prosperous4 ,he who thinks good thoughts is a laborer--one of the greatest4 ,the man who invented the reaper will be harvesting the fields for thousands of years to come4 ,if labor is abused in this country the laborers have it within their power to defend themselves4 ,all my sympathies are with the men who toil4 ,i shed very few tears over bankers and millionaires and corporations--they can take care of themselves4 ,my sympathies are with the man who has nothing to sell but his strength2 nothing to sell but his muscle and his intelligence2 who has no capital except that which his mother gave him--a capital he must sell every day2 my sympathies are with him2 and ,i want him to have a good market2 and ,i want it so that he can sell the work for more than enough to take care of him to-morrow4 ,i believe that no corporation should be allowed to exist except for the benefit of the whole people4 ,the ,government should always act for the benefit of all1 and when the ,government gives a part of its power to an aggregation of individuals1 the accomplishment of some public good should justify the giving of that power2 and whenever a corporation becomes subversive of the very end for which it was created1 the ,government should put an end to its life4 ,so ,i believe that after these matters1 these issues have been discussed--when something is understood about the effect of a tariff1 the effect of protection1 the laboring people of this country will be on the side of the ,republican party4 ,the ,republican party is always trying to do something--trying to take a step in advance4 ,persons who care for nothing except themselves--who wish to make no effort except for themselves--are its natural enemies4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,mr4 ,mills' ,fourth of ,july speech on his bill8 ,answer4 ,certain allowances should always be made for the ,fourth of ,july4 ,what ,mr4 ,mills says with regard to free trade depends1 ,i imagine1 largely on where he happens to be4 ,you remember the old story about the ,moniteur4 ,when ,napoleon escaped from ,elba that paper said3 ,the ogre has escaped4 ,and from that moment the epithets grew a little less objectionable as ,napoleon advanced1 and at last the ,moniteur cried out3 ,the ,emperor has reached ,paris4 ,i hardly believe that ,mr4 ,mills would call his bill in ,texas a war tariff measure4 ,he might commence in ,new ,york with that description1 but as he went ,south that language1 in my judgment1 would change1 and when he struck the ,brazos ,i think the bill would be described as the nearest possible approach to free trade4 ,mr4 ,mills takes the ground that if raw material comes here free of duty1 then we can manufacture that raw material and compete with other countries in the markets of the world--that is to say1 under his bill4 ,now1 other countries can certainly get the raw material as cheaply as we can1 especially those countries in which the raw material is raised2 and if wages are less in other countries than in ours1 the raw material being the same1 the product must cost more with us than with them4 ,consequently we cannot compete with foreign countries simply by getting the raw material at the same price2 we must be able to manufacture it as cheaply as they1 and we can do that only by cutting down the wages of the ,american workingmen4 ,because1 to have raw material at the same price as other nations1 is only a part of the problem4 ,the other part is how cheaply can we manufacture it8 ,and that depends upon wages4 ,if wages are twenty-five cents a day1 then we can compete with those nations where wages are twenty-five cents a day2 but if our wages are five or six times as high1 then the twenty-five cent labor will supply the market4 ,there is no possible way of putting ourselves on an equality with other countries in the markets of the world1 except by putting ,american labor on an equality with the other labor of the world4 ,consequently1 we cannot obtain a foreign market without lessening our wages4 ,no proposition can be plainer than this4 ,it cannot be said too often that the real prosperity of a country depends upon the well-being of those who labor4 ,that country is not prosperous where a few are wealthy and have all the luxuries that the imagination can suggest1 and where the millions are in want1 clothed in rags1 and housed in tenements not fit for wild beasts4 ,the value of our property depends on the civilization of our people4 ,if the people are happy and contented1 if the workingman receives good wages1 then our houses and our farms are valuable4 ,if the people are discontented1 if the workingmen are in want1 then our property depreciates from day to day1 and national bankruptcy will only be a question of time4 ,if ,mr4 ,mills has given a true statement with regard to the measure proposed by him1 what relation does that measure bear to the ,president's message8 ,what has it to do with the ,democratic platform8 ,if ,mr4 ,mills has made no mistake1 the ,president wrote a message substantially in favor of free trade4 ,the ,democratic party ratified and indorsed that message1 and at the same time ratified and indorsed the ,mills bill4 ,now1 the message was for free trade1 and the ,mills bill1 according to ,mr4 ,mills1 is for the purpose of sustaining the war tariff4 ,they have either got the wrong child or the wrong parents4 ,question4 ,i see that some people are objecting to your taking any part in politics1 on account of your religious opinion8 ,answer4 ,the ,democratic party has always been pious4 ,if it is noted for anything it is for its extreme devotion4 ,you have no idea how many ,democrats wear out the toes of their shoes praying4 ,i suppose that in this country there ought to be an absolute divorce between church and state and without any alimony being allowed to the church2 and ,i have always supposed that the ,republican party was perfectly willing that anybody should vote its ticket who believed in its principles4 ,the party was not established1 as ,i understand it1 in the interest of any particular denomination2 it was established to promote and preserve the freedom of the ,american citizen everywhere4 ,its first object was to prevent the spread of human slavery2 its second object was to put down the ,rebellion and preserve the ,union2 its third object was the utter destruction of human slavery everywhere1 and its fourth object is to preserve not only the fruit of all that it has won1 but to protect ,american industry to the end that the ,republic may not only be free1 but prosperous and happy4 ,in this great work all are invited to join1 no matter whether ,catholics or ,presbyterians or ,methodists or ,infidels--believers or unbelievers4 ,the object is to have a majority of the people of the ,united ,states in favor of human liberty1 in favor of justice and in favor of an intelligent ,american policy4 ,i am not what is called strictly orthodox1 and yet ,i am liberal enough to vote for a ,presbyterian1 and if a ,presbyterian is not liberal enough to stand by a ,republican1 no matter what his religious opinions may be1 then the ,presbyterian is not as liberal as the ,republican party1 and he is not as liberal as an unbeliever2 in other words1 he is not a manly man4 ,i object to no man who is running for office on the ticket of my party on account of his religious convictions4 ,i care nothing about the church of which he is a member4 ,that is his business4 ,that is an individual matter--something with which the ,state has no right to interfere--something with which no party can rightfully have anything to do4 ,these great questions are left open to discussion4 ,every church must take its chance in the open field of debate4 ,no belief has the right to draw the sword--no dogma the right to resort to force4 ,the moment a church asks for the help of the ,state1 it confesses its weakness1 it confesses its inability to answer the arguments against it4 ,i believe in the absolute equality before the law1 of all religions and all metaphysical theories2 and ,i would no more control those things by law than ,i would endeavor to control the arts and the sciences by legislation4 ,man admires the beautiful1 and what is beautiful to one may not be to another1 and this inequality or this difference cannot be regulated by law4 ,the same is true of what is called religious belief4 ,i am willing to give all others every right that ,i claim for myself1 and if they are not willing to give me the rights they claim for themselves1 they are not civilized4 ,no man acknowledges the truth of my opinions because he votes the same ticket that ,i do1 and ,i certainly do not acknowledge the correctness of the opinions of others because ,i vote the ,republican ticket4 ,we are ,republicans together4 ,upon certain political questions we agree1 upon other questions we disagree--and that is all4 ,only religious people1 who have made up their minds to vote the ,democratic ticket1 will raise an objection of this kind1 and they will raise the objection simply as a pretence1 simply for the purpose of muddying the water while they escape4 ,of course there may be some exceptions4 ,there are a great many insane people out of asylums4 ,if the ,republican party does not stand for absolute intellectual liberty1 it had better disband4 ,and why should we take so much pains to free the body1 and then enslave the mind8 ,i believe in giving liberty to both4 ,give every man the right to labor1 and give him the right to reap the harvest of his toil4 ,give every man the right to think1 and to reap the harvest of his brain--that is to say1 give him the right to express his thoughts4 --,new ,york ,press1 ,july #h1 #ahhh4 ,,james ,g4 ,,blaine ,,and ,,politics4 ,question4 ,i see that there has lately been published a long account of the relations between ,mr4 ,blaine and yourself1 and the reason given for your failure to support him for the nomination in #ahhd and #ahhh8 ,answer4 ,every little while some donkey writes a long article pretending to tell all that happened between ,mr4 ,blaine and myself4 ,i have never seen any article on the subject that contained any truth4 ,they are always the invention of the writer or of somebody who told him4 ,the last account is more than usually idiotic4 ,an unpleasant word has never passed between ,mr4 ,blaine and myself4 ,we have never had any falling out4 ,i never asked ,mr4 ,blaine's influence for myself4 ,i never asked ,president ,hayes or ,garfield or ,arthur for any position whatever1 and ,i have never asked ,mr4 ,cleveland for any appointment under the civil service4 ,with regard to the ,german ,mission1 about which so much has been said1 all that ,i ever did in regard to that was to call on ,secretary ,evarts and inform him that there was no place in the gift of the administration that ,i would accept4 ,i could not afford to throw away a good many thousand dollars a year for the sake of an office4 ,so ,i say again that ,i never asked1 or dreamed of asking1 any such favor of ,mr4 ,blaine4 ,the favors have been exactly the other way-- from me1 and not from him4 ,so there is not the slightest truth in the charge that there was some difference between our families4 ,i have great respect for ,mrs4 ,blaine1 have always considered her an extremely good and sensible woman2 our relations have been of the friendliest character1 and such relations have always existed between all the members of both families1 so far as ,i know4 ,nothing could be more absurd that the charge that there was some feeling growing out of our social relations4 ,we do not depend upon others to help us socially2 we need no help1 and if we did we would not accept it4 ,the whole story about there having been any lack of politeness or kindness is without the slightest foundation4 ,in #ahhd ,i did not think that ,mr4 ,blaine could be elected4 ,i thought the same at the ,chicago convention this year4 ,i know that he has a great number of ardent admirers and of exceedingly self-denying and unselfish friends4 ,i believe that he has more friends than any other man in the ,republican party2 but he also has very bitter enemies--enemies with influence4 ,taking this into consideration1 and believing that the success of the party was more important than the success of any individual1 ,i was in favor of nominating some man who would poll the entire ,republican vote4 ,this feeling did not grow out of any hostility to any man1 but simply out of a desire for ,republican success4 ,in other words1 ,i endeavored to take an unprejudiced view of the situation4 ,under no circumstances would ,i underrate the ability and influence of ,mr4 ,blaine1 nor would ,i endeavor to deprecate the services he has rendered to the ,republican party and to the country4 ,but by this time it ought to be understood that ,i belong to no man1 that ,i am the proprietor of myself4 ,there are two kinds of people that ,i have no use for--leaders and followers4 ,the leader should be principle2 the leader should be a great object to be accomplished4 ,the follower should be the man dedicated to the accomplishment of a noble end4 ,he who simply follows persons gains no honor and is incapable of giving honor even to the one he follows4 ,there are certain things to be accomplished and these things are the leaders4 ,we want in this country an ,american system2 we wish to carry into operation1 into practical effect1 ideas1 policies1 theories in harmony with our surroundings4 ,this is a great country filled with intelligent1 industrious1 restless1 ambitious people4 ,millions came here because they were dissatisfied with the laws1 the institutions1 the tyrannies1 the absurdities1 the poverty1 the wretchedness and the infamous spirit of caste found in the ,old ,world4 ,millions of these people are thinking for themselves1 and only the people who can teach1 who can give new facts1 who can illuminate1 should be regarded as political benefactors4 ,this country is1 in my judgment1 in all that constitutes true greatness1 the nearest civilized of any country4 ,only yesterday the ,german ,empire robbed a woman of her child2 this was done as a political necessity4 ,nothing is taken into consideration except some move on the political chess-board4 ,the feelings of a mother are utterly disregarded2 they are left out of the question2 they are not even passed upon4 ,they are naturally ignored1 because in these governments only the unnatural is natural4 ,in our political life we have substantially outgrown the duel4 ,there are some small1 insignificant people who still think it important to defend a worthless reputation on the field of honor1 but for respectable members of the ,senate1 of the ,house1 of the ,cabinet1 to settle a political argument with pistols would render them utterly contemptible in this country2 that is to say1 the opinion that governs1 that dominates in this country1 holds the duel in abhorrence and in contempt4 ,what could be more idiotic1 absurd1 childish1 than the duel between ,boulanger and ,floquet8 ,what was settled8 ,it needed no duel to convince the world that ,floquet is a man of courage4 ,the same may be said of ,boulanger4 ,he has faced death upon many fields4 ,why1 then1 resort to the duel8 ,if ,boulanger's wound proves fatal1 that certainly does not tend to prove that ,floquet told the truth1 and if ,boulanger recovers1 it does not tend to prove that he did not tell the truth4 ,nothing is settled4 ,two men controlled by vanity1 that individual vanity born of national vanity1 try to kill each other2 the public ready to reward the victor2 the cause of the quarrel utterly ignored2 the hands of the public ready to applaud the successful swordsman --and yet ,france is called a civilized nation4 ,no matter how serious the political situation may be1 no matter if everything depends upon one man1 that man is at the mercy of anyone in opposition who may see fit to challenge him4 ,the greatest general at the head of their armies may be forced to fight a duel with a nobody4 ,such ideas1 such a system1 keeps a nation in peril and makes every cause1 to a greater or less extent1 depend upon the sword or the bullet of a criminal4 --,the ,press1 ,new ,york1 ,july #af1 #ahhh4 ,,the ,,mills ,,bill4 ,question4 ,what1 in your opinion1 is the significance of the vote on the ,mills ,bill recently passed in the ,house8 ,in this ,i find there were one hundred and sixty-two for it1 and one hundred and forty-nine against it2 of these1 two ,republicans voted for1 and five ,democrats against4 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 ,i think it somewhat doubtful whether the bill could have been passed if ,mr4 ,randall had been well4 ,his sickness had much to do with this vote4 ,had he been present to have taken care of his side1 to have kept his forces in hand1 he1 in my judgment1 taking into consideration his wonderful knowledge of parliamentary tactics1 would have defeated this bill4 ,it is somewhat hard to get the average ,democrat1 in the absence of his leader1 to throw away the prospect of patronage4 ,most members of ,congress have to pay tolerably strict attention to their political fences4 ,the ,president1 although clinging with great tenacity to the phrase civil service1 has in all probability pulled every string he could reach for the purpose of compelling the ,democratic members not only to stand in line1 but to answer promptly to their names4 ,every ,democrat who has shown independence has been stepped on just to the extent he could be reached2 but many members1 had the leader been on the floor--and a leader like ,randall--would have followed him4 ,there are very few congressional districts in the ,united ,states not intensely ,democratic where the people want nothing protected4 ,there are a few districts where nothing grows except ancient politics1 where they cultivate only the memory of what never ought to have been1 where the subject of protection has not yet reached4 ,the impudence requisite to pass the ,mills ,bill is something phenomenal4 ,think of the ,representatives from ,louisiana saying to the ranchmen of the ,west and to the farmers of ,ohio that wool must be on the free list1 but that for the sake of preserving the sugar interest of ,louisiana and a little portion of ,texas1 all the rest of the ,united ,states must pay tribute4 ,everybody admits that ,louisiana is not very well adapted by nature for raising sugar1 for the reason that the cane has to be planted every year1 and every third year the frost puts in an appearance just a little before the sugar4 ,now1 while ,i think personally that the tariff on sugar has stimulated the inventive genius of the country to find other ways of producing that which is universally needed2 and while ,i believe that it will not be long until we shall produce every pound of sugar that we consume1 and produce it cheaper than we buy it now1 ,i am satisfied that in time and at no distant day sugar will be made in this country extremely cheap1 not only from beets1 but from sorghum and corn1 and it may be from other products4 ,at the same time this is no excuse for ,louisiana1 neither is it any excuse for ,south ,carolina asking for a tariff on rice1 and at the same time wishing to leave some other industry in the ,united ,states1 in which many more millions have been invested1 absolutely without protection4 ,understand1 ,i am not opposed to a reasonable tariff on rice1 provided it is shown that we can raise rice in this country cheaply and at a profit to such an extent as finally to become substantially independent of the rest of the world4 ,what ,i object to is the impudence of the gentleman who is raising the rice objecting to the protection of some other industry of far greater importance than his4 ,after all1 the whole thing must be a compromise4 ,we must act together for the common good4 ,if we wish to make something at the expense of another ,state we must allow that ,state to make something at our expense1 or at least we must be able to show that while it is for our benefit it is also for the benefit of the country at large4 ,everybody is entitled to have his own way up to the point that his way interferes with somebody else4 ,states are like individuals--their rights are relative--they are subordinated to the good of the whole country4 ,for many years it has been the ,american policy to do all that reasonably could be done to foster ,american industry1 to give scope to ,american ingenuity and a field for ,american enterprise--in other words1 a future for the ,united ,states4 ,the ,southern ,states were always in favor of something like free trade4 ,they wanted to raise cotton for ,great ,britain--raw material for other countries4 ,at that time their labor was slave labor1 and they could not hope ever to have skilled labor1 because skilled labor cannot be enslaved4 ,the ,southern people knew at that time that if a man was taught enough of mathematics to understand machinery1 to run locomotives1 to weave cloth2 it he was taught enough of chemistry even to color calico1 it would be impossible to keep him a slave4 ,education always was and always will be an abolitionist4 ,the ,south advocated a system of harmony with slavery1 in harmony with ignorance--that is to say1 a system of free trade1 under which it might raise its raw material4 ,it could not hope to manufacture1 because by making its labor intelligent enough to manufacture it would lose it4 ,in the ,north1 men are working for themselves1 and as ,i have often said1 they were getting their hands and heads in partnership4 ,every little stream that went singing to the sea was made to turn a thousand wheels2 the water became a spinner and a weaver2 the water became a blacksmith and ran a trip hammer2 the water was doing the work of millions of men4 ,in other words1 the free people of the ,north were doing what free people have always done1 going into partnership with the forces of nature4 ,free people want good tools1 shapely1 well made--tools with which the most work can be done with the least strain4 ,suppose the ,south had been in favor of protection2 suppose that all over the ,southern country there had been workshops1 factories1 machines of every kind2 suppose that her people had been as ingenious as the people of the ,north2 suppose that her hands had been as deft as those that had been accustomed to skilled labor2 then one of two things would have happened2 either the ,south would have been too intelligent to withdraw from the ,union1 or1 having withdrawn1 it would have had the power to maintain its position4 ,my opinion is that is would have been too intelligent to withdraw4 ,when the ,south seceded it had no factories4 ,the people of the ,south had ability1 but it was not trained in the direction then necessary4 ,they could not arm and equip their men2 they could not make their clothes2 they could not provide them with guns1 with cannon1 with ammunition1 and with the countless implements of destruction4 ,they had not the ingenuity2 they had not the means2 they could not make cars to carry their troops1 or locomotives to draw them2 they had not in their armies the men to build bridges or to supply the needed transportation4 ,they had nothing but cotton --that is to say1 raw material4 ,so that you might say that the ,rebellion has settled the question as to whether a country is better off and more prosperous1 and more powerful1 and more ready for war1 that is filled with industries1 or one that depends simply upon the production of raw material4 ,there is another thing in this connection that should never be forgotten--at least1 not until after the election in ,november1 and then if forgotten1 should be remembered at every subsequent election --and that is1 that the ,southern ,confederacy had in its ,constitution the doctrine of free trade4 ,among other things it was fighting for free trade4 ,as a matter of fact1 ,john ,c4 ,calhoun was fighting for free trade2 the nullification business was in the interest of free trade4 ,the ,southern people are endeavoring simply to accomplish1 with the aid of ,new ,york1 what they failed to accomplish on the field4 ,the ,south is as solid to-day as in #ahfc4 ,it is now for free trade1 and it purposes to carry the day by the aid of one or two ,northern ,states4 ,history is repeating itself4 ,it was the same for many years1 up to the election of ,abraham ,lincoln4 ,understand me1 ,i do not blame the ,south for acting in accordance with its convictions1 but the ,north ought not to be misled4 ,the ,north ought to understand what the issue is4 ,the ,south has a different idea of government--it is afraid of what it calls centralization--it is extremely sensitive about what are called ,state ,rights or the sovereignty of the ,state4 ,but the ,north believes in a ,union that is united4 ,the ,north does not expect to have any interest antagonistic to the ,union4 ,the ,north has no mental reservation4 ,the ,north believes in the ,government and in the ,federal system1 and the ,north believes that when a ,state is admitted into the ,union it becomes a part--an integral part--of the ,nation2 that there was a welding1 that the ,state1 so far as sovereignty is concerned1 is lost in the ,union1 and that the people of that ,state become citizens of the whole country4 ,question4 ,i see that by the vote two of the five ,democrats who voted for protection1 and one of the two ,republicans who voted for free trade1 were ,new ,yorkers4 ,what do you think is the significance of this fact in relation to the question as to whether ,new ,york will join the ,south in the opposition to the industries of the country8 ,answer4 ,in the city of ,new ,york there are a vast number of men --importers1 dealers in foreign articles1 representatives of foreign houses1 of foreign interests1 of foreign ideas4 ,of course most of these people are in favor of free trade4 ,they regard ,new ,york as a good market2 beyond that they have not the slightest interest in the ,united ,states4 ,they are in favor of anything that will give them a large profit1 or that will allow them to do the same business with less capital1 or that will do them any good without the slightest regard as to what the effect may be on this country as a nation4 ,they come from all countries1 and they expect to remain here until their fortunes are made or lost and all their ideas are moulded by their own interests4 ,then1 there are a great many natives who are merchants in ,new ,york and who deal in foreign goods1 and they probably think--some of them--that it would be to their interest to have free trade1 and they will probably vote according to the ledger4 ,with them it is a question of bookkeeping4 ,their greed is too great to appreciate the fact that to impoverish customers destroys trade4 ,at the same time1 ,new ,york1 being one of the greatest manufacturing ,states of the world1 will be for protection1 and the ,democrats of ,new ,york who voted for protection did so1 not only because the believed in it themselves1 but because their constituents believe in it1 and the ,republicans who voted the other way must have represented some district where the foreign influence controls4 ,the people of this ,state will protect their own industries4 ,question4 ,what will be the fate of the ,mills ,bill in the ,senate8 ,answer4 ,i think that unless the ,senate has a bill prepared embodying ,republican ideals1 a committee should be appointed1 not simply to examine the ,mills ,bill1 but to get the opinions and the ideas of the most intelligent manufacturers and mechanics in this country4 ,let the questions be thoroughly discussed1 and let the information thus obtained be given to the people2 let it be published from day to day2 let the laboring man have his say1 let the manufacturer give his opinion2 let the representatives of the principal industries be heard1 so that we may vote intelligently1 so that the people may know what they are doing4 ,a great many industries have been attacked4 ,let them defend themselves4 ,public property should not be taken for ,democratic use without due process of law4 ,certainly it is not the business of a ,republican ,senate to pull the donkey of the ,democrats out of the pit2 the dug the pit1 and we have lost no donkey4 ,i do not think the ,senate called upon to fix up this ,mills ,bill1 to rectify its most glaring mistakes1 and then for the sake of saving a little1 give up a great deal4 ,what we have got is safe until the ,democrats have the power to pass a bill4 ,we can protect our rights by not passing their bills4 ,in other words1 we do not wish to practice any great self-denial simply for the purpose of insuring ,democratic success4 ,if the bill is sent back to the ,house1 no matter in what form1 if it still has the name ,mills ,bill ,i think the ,democrats will vote for it simply to get out of their trouble4 ,they will have the ,president's message left4 ,but ,i do hope that the ,senate will investigate this business4 ,it is hardly fair to ask the ,senate to take decided and final action upon this bill in the last days of the session4 ,there is no time to consider it unless it is instantly defeated4 ,this would probably be a safe course1 and yet1 by accident1 there may be some good things in this bill that ought to be preserved1 and certainly the ,democratic party ought to regard it as a compliment to keep it long enough to read it4 ,the interests involved are great--there are the commercial and industrial interests of sixty millions of people4 ,these questions touch the prosperity of the ,republic4 ,every person under the flag has a direct interest in the solution of these questions4 ,the end that is now arrived at1 the policy now adopted1 may and probably will last for many years4 ,one can hardly overestimate the immensity of the interests at stake4 ,a man dealing with his own affairs should take time to consider2 he should give himself the benefit of his best judgment4 ,when acting for others he should do no less4 ,the ,senators represent1 or should represent1 not only their own views1 but above these things they represent the material interests of their constituents1 of their ,states1 and to this trust they must be true1 and in order to be true1 they must understand the material interests of their ,states1 and in order to be faithful1 they must understand how the proposed changes in the tariff will affect these interests4 ,this cannot be done in a moment4 ,in my judgment1 the best way is for the ,senate1 through the proper committee1 to hear testimony1 to hear the views of intelligent men1 of interested men1 of prejudiced men--that is to say1 they should look at the question from all sides4 ,question4 ,the ,senate is almost tied2 do you think that any ,republicans are likely to vote in the interest of the ,president's policy at this session8 ,answer4 ,of course ,i cannot pretend to answer that question from any special knowledge1 or on any information that others are not in possession of4 ,my idea is simply this3 ,that a majority of the ,senators are opposed to the ,president's policy4 ,a majority of the ,senate will1 in my judgment1 sustain the ,republican policy2 that is to say1 they will stand by the ,american system4 ,a majority of the ,senate1 ,i think1 know that it will be impossible for us to compete in the markets of the world with those nations in which labor is far cheaper than it is in the ,united ,states1 and that when you make the raw material just the same1 you have not overcome the difference in labor1 and until this is overcome we cannot successfully compete in the markets of the world with those countries where labor is cheaper4 ,and there are only two ways to overcome this difficulty--either the price of labor must go up in the other countries or must go down in this4 ,i do not believe that a majority of the ,senate can be induced to vote for a policy that will decrease the wages of ,american workingmen4 ,there is this curious thing3 ,the ,president started out blowing the trumpet of free trade4 ,it gave1 as the ,democrats used to say1 no uncertain sound4 ,he blew with all his might4 ,messrs4 ,morrison1 ,carlisle1 ,mills and many others joined the band4 ,when the ,mills ,bill was introduced it was heralded as the legitimate offspring of the ,president's message4 ,when the ,democratic convention at ,st4 ,louis met1 the declaration was made that the ,president's message1 the ,mills ,bill1 the ,democratic platform of #ahhd and the ,democratic platform of #ahhh1 were all the same--all segments of one circle2 in fact1 they were like modern locomotives--all the parts interchangeable4 ,as soon as the ,republican convention met1 made its platform and named its candidates1 it is not free trade1 but freer trade2 and now ,mr4 ,mills1 in the last speech that he was permitted to make in favor of his bill1 endeavored to show that it was a high protective tariff measure4 ,this is what lawyers call a departure in pleading4 ,that is to say1 it is a case that ought to be beaten on demurrer4 --,new ,york ,press1 ,july #bi1 #ahhh4 ,,society ,,and ,,its ,,criminals99 99 ,col4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll was greatly interested in securing for ,chiara ,cignarale a commutation of the death sentence to imprisonment for life4 ,in view of the fact that the great ,agnostic has made a close study of capital punishment1 a reporter for the ,world called upon him a day or two ago for an interview touching modern reformatory measures and the punishment of criminals4 ,speaking generally on the subject ,colonel ,ingersoll said3 ,i suppose that society--that is to say1 a state or a nation--has the right of self-defence4 ,it is impossible to maintain society-- that is to say1 to protect the rights of individuals in life1 in property1 in reputation1 and in the various pursuits known as trades and professions1 without in some way taking care of those who violate these rights4 ,the principal object of all government should be to protect those in the right from those in the wrong4 ,there are a vast number of people who need to be protected who are unable1 by reason of the defects in their minds and by the countless circumstances that enter into the question of making a living1 to protect themselves4 ,among the barbarians there was1 comparatively speaking1 but little difference4 ,a living was made by fishing and hunting4 ,these arts were simple and easily learned4 ,the principal difference in barbarians consisted in physical strength and courage4 ,as a consequence1 there were comparatively few failures4 ,most men were on an equality4 ,now that we are somewhat civilized1 life has become wonderfully complex4 ,there are hundreds of arts1 trades1 and professions1 and in every one of these there is great competition4 ,besides all this1 something is needed every moment4 ,civilized man has less credit than the barbarian4 ,there is something by which everything can be paid for1 including the smallest services4 ,everybody demands payment1 and he who fails to pay is a failure4 ,owing to the competition1 owing to the complexity of modern life1 owing to the thousand things that must be known in order to succeed in any direction1 on either side of the great highway that is called ,progress1 are innumerable wrecks4 ,as a rule1 failure in some honest direction1 or at least in some useful employment1 is the dawn of crime4 ,people who are prosperous1 people who by reasonable labor can make a reasonable living1 who1 having a little leisure can lay in a little for the winter that comes to all1 are honest4 ,as a rule1 reasonable prosperity is virtuous4 ,i don't say great prosperity1 because it is very hard for the average man to withstand extremes4 ,when people fail under this law1 or rather this fact1 of the survival of the fittest1 they endeavor to do by some illegal way that which they failed to do in accordance with law4 ,persons driven from the highway take to the fields1 and endeavor to reach their end or object in some shorter way1 by some quicker path1 regardless of its being right or wrong4 ,i have said this much to show that ,i regard criminals as unfortunates4 ,most people regard those who violate the law with hatred4 ,they do not take into consideration the circumstances4 ,they do not believe that man is perpetually acted upon4 ,they throw out of consideration the effect of poverty1 of necessity1 and above all1 of opportunity4 ,for these reasons they regard criminals with feelings of revenge4 ,they wish to see them punished4 ,they want them imprisoned or hanged4 ,they do not think the law has been vindicated unless somebody has been outraged4 ,i look at these things from an entirely different point of view4 ,i regard these people who are in the clutches of the law not only as unfortunates1 but1 for the most part1 as victims4 ,you may call them victims of nature1 or of nations1 or of governments2 it makes no difference1 they are victims4 ,under the same circumstances the very persons who punish them would be punished4 ,but whether the criminal is a victim or not1 the honest man1 the industrious man1 has the right to defend the product of his labor4 ,he who sows and plows should be allowed to reap1 and he who endeavors to take from him his harvest is what we call a criminal2 and it is the business of society to protect the honest from the dishonest4 ,without taking into account whether the man is or is not responsible1 still society has the right of self-defence4 ,whether that right of self-defence goes to the extent of taking life1 depends1 ,i imagine1 upon the circumstances in which society finds itself placed4 ,a thousand men on a ship form a society4 ,if a few men should enter into a plot for the destruction of the ship1 or for turning it over to pirates1 or for poisoning and plundering the most of the passengers--if the passengers found this out certainly they would have the right of self-defence4 ,they might not have the means to confine the conspirators with safety4 ,under such circumstances it might be perfectly proper for them to destroy their lives and to throw their worthless bodies into the sea4 ,but what society has the right to do depends upon the circumstances4 ,now1 in my judgment1 society has the right to do two things--to protect itself and to do what it can to reform the individual4 ,society has no right to take revenge2 no right to torture a convict2 no right to do wrong because some individual has done wrong4 ,i am opposed to all corporal punishment in penitentiaries4 ,i am opposed to anything that degrades a criminal or leaves upon him an unnecessary stain1 or puts upon him any stain that he did not put upon himself4 ,most people defend capital punishment on the ground that the man ought to be killed because he has killed another4 ,the only real ground for killing him1 even if that be good1 is not that he has killed1 but that he may kill4 ,what he has done simply gives evidence of what he may do1 and to prevent what he may do1 instead of to revenge what he has done1 should be the reason given4 ,now1 there is another view4 ,to what extent does it harden the community for the ,government to take life8 ,don't people reason in this way3 ,that man ought to be killed2 the ,government1 under the same circumstances1 would kill him1 therefore ,i will kill him8 ,does not the ,government feed the mob spirit--the lynch spirit8 ,does not the mob follow the example set by the ,government8 ,the ,government certainly cannot say that it hangs a man for the purpose of reforming him4 ,its feelings toward that man are only feelings of revenge and hatred4 ,these are the same feelings that animate the lowest and basest mob4 ,let me give you an example4 ,in the city of ,bloomington1 in the ,state of ,illinois1 a man confined in the jail1 in his efforts to escape1 shot and1 ,i believe1 killed the jailer4 ,he was pursued1 recaptured1 brought back and hanged by a mob4 ,the man who put the rope around his neck was then under indictment for an assault to kill and was out on bail1 and after the poor wretch was hanged another man climbed the tree and1 in a kind of derision1 put a piece of cigar between the lips of the dead man4 ,the man who did this had also been indicted for a penitentiary offence and was then out on bail4 ,i mention this simply to show the kind of people you find in mobs4 ,now1 if the ,government had a greater and nobler thought2 if the ,government said3 ,we will reform2 we will not destroy2 but if the man is beyond reformation we will simply put him where he can do no more harm1 then1 in my judgment1 the effect would be far better4 ,my own opinion is1 that the effect of an execution is bad upon the community--degrading and debasing4 ,the effect is to cheapen human life2 and1 although a man is hanged because he has taken human life1 the very fact that his life is taken by the ,government tends to do away with the idea that human life is sacred4 ,let me give you an illustration4 ,a man in the city of ,washington went to ,alexandria1 ,va41 for the purpose of seeing a man hanged who had murdered an old man and a woman for the purpose of getting their money4 ,on his return from that execution he came through what is called the ,smithsonian grounds4 ,this was on the same day1 late in the evening4 ,there he met a peddler1 whom he proceeded to murder for his money4 ,he was arrested in a few hours1 in a little while was tried and convicted1 and in a little while was hanged4 ,and another man1 present at this second execution1 went home on that same day1 and1 in passing by a butcher-shop near his house1 went in1 took from the shop a cleaver1 went into his house and chopped his wife's head off4 ,this1 ,i say1 throws a little light upon the effect of public executions4 ,in the ,cignarale case1 of course the sentence should have been commuted4 ,i think1 however1 that she ought not to be imprisoned for life4 ,from what ,i read of the testimony ,i think she should have been pardoned4 ,it is hard1 ,i suppose1 for a man fully to understand and enter into the feelings of a wife who has been trampled upon1 abused1 bruised1 and blackened by the man she loved--by the man who made to her the vows of eternal affection4 ,the woman1 as a rule1 is so weak1 so helpless4 ,of course1 it does not all happen in a moment4 ,it comes on as the night comes4 ,she notices that he does not act quite as affectionately as he formerly did4 ,day after day1 month after month1 she feels that she is entering a twilight4 ,but she hopes that she is mistaken1 and that the light will come again4 ,the gloom deepens1 and at last she is in midnight--a midnight without a star4 ,and this man1 whom she once worshiped1 is now her enemy-- one who delights to trample upon every sentiment she has--who delights in humiliating her1 and who is guilty of a thousand nameless tyrannies4 ,under these circumstances1 it is hardly right to hold that woman accountable for what she does4 ,it has always seemed to me strange that a woman so circumstanced--in such fear that she dare not even tell her trouble--in such fear that she dare not even run away--dare not tell a father or a mother1 for fear that she will be killed--,i say1 that in view of all this1 it has always seemed strange to me that so few husbands have been poisoned4 ,the probability is that society raises its own criminals4 ,it plows the land1 sows the seed1 and harvests the crop4 ,i believe that the shadow of the gibbet will not always fall upon the earth4 ,i believe the time will come when we shall know too much to raise criminals--know too much to crowd those that labor into the dens and dungeons that we call tenements1 while the idle live in palaces4 ,the time will come when men will know that real progress means the enfranchisement of the whole human race1 and that our interests are so united1 so interwoven1 that the few cannot be happy while the many suffer2 so that the many cannot be happy while the few suffer2 so that none can be happy while one suffers4 ,in other words1 it will be found that the human race is interested in each individual4 ,when that time comes we will stop producing criminals2 we will stop producing failures2 we will not leave the next generation to chance2 we will not regard the gutter as a proper nursery for posterity4 ,people imagine that if the thieves are sent to the penitentiary1 that is the last of the thieves2 that if those who kill others are hanged1 society is on a safe and enduring basis4 ,but the trouble is here3 ,a man comes to your front door and you drive him away4 ,you have an idea that that man's case is settled4 ,you are mistaken4 ,he goes to the back door4 ,he is again driven away4 ,but the case is not settled4 ,the next thing you know he enters at night4 ,he is a burglar4 ,he is caught2 he is convicted2 he is sent to the penitentiary1 and you imagine that the case is settled4 ,but it is not4 ,you must remember that you have to keep all the agencies alive for the purpose of taking care of these people4 ,you have to build and maintain your penitentiaries1 your courts of justice2 you have to pay your judges1 your district attorneys1 your juries1 you witnesses1 your detectives1 your police--all these people must be paid4 ,so that1 after all1 it is a very expensive way of settling this question4 ,you could have done it far more cheaply had you found this burglar when he was a child2 had you taken his father and mother from the tenement house1 or had you compelled the owners to keep the tenement clean2 or if you had widened the streets1 if you had planted a few trees1 if you had had plenty of baths1 if you had had a school in the neighborhood4 ,if you had taken some interest in this family--some interest in this child--instead of breaking into houses1 he might have been a builder of houses4 ,there is1 and it cannot be said too often1 no reforming influence in punishment2 no reforming power in revenge4 ,only the best of men should be in charge of penitentiaries2 only the noblest minds and the tenderest hearts should have the care of criminals4 ,criminals should see from the first moment that they enter a penitentiary that it is filled with the air of kindness1 full of the light of hope4 ,the object should be to convince every criminal that he has made a mistake2 that he has taken the wrong way2 that the right way is the easy way1 and that the path of crime never did and never can lead to happiness2 that that idea is a mistake1 and that the ,government wishes to convince him that he has made a mistake2 wishes to open his intellectual eyes2 wishes so to educate him1 so to elevate him1 that he will look back upon what he has done1 only with horror4 ,this is reformation4 ,punishment is not4 ,when the convict is taken to ,sing ,sing or to ,auburn1 and when a striped suit of clothes is put upon him--that is to say1 when he is made to feel the degradation of his position--no step has been taken toward reformation4 ,you have simply filled his heart with hatred4 ,then1 when he has been abused for several years1 treated like a wild beast1 and finally turned out again in the community1 he has no thought1 in a majority of cases1 except to get even with those who have persecuted him4 ,he feels that it is a persecution4 ,question4 ,do you think that men are naturally criminals and naturally virtuous8 ,answer4 ,i think that man does all that he does naturally--that is to say1 a certain man does a certain act under certain circumstances1 and he does this naturally4 ,for instance1 a man sees a five dollar bill1 and he knows that he can take it without being seen4 ,five dollars is no temptation to him4 ,under the circumstances it is not natural that he should take it4 ,the same man sees five million dollars1 and feels that he can get possession of it without detection4 ,if he takes it1 then under the circumstances1 that was natural to him4 ,and yet ,i believe there are men above all price1 and that no amount of temptation or glory or fame could mislead them4 ,still1 whatever man does1 is or was natural to him4 ,another view of the subject is this3 ,i have read that out of fifty criminals who had been executed it was found1 ,i believe1 in nearly all the cases1 that the shape of the skull was abnormal4 ,whether this is true or not1 ,i don't know2 but that some men have a tendency toward what we call crime1 ,i believe4 ,where this has been ascertained1 then1 it seems to me1 such men should be placed where they cannot multiply their kind4 ,women who have a criminal tendency should be placed where they cannot increase their kind4 ,for hardened criminals --that is to say1 for the people who make crime a business--it would probably be better to separate the sexes2 to send the men to one island1 the women to another4 ,let them be kept apart1 to the end that people with criminal tendencies may fade from the earth4 ,this is not prompted by revenge4 ,this would not be done for the purpose of punishing these people1 but for the protection of society --for the peace and happiness of the future4 ,my own belief is that the system in vogue now in regard to the treatment of criminals in many ,states produces more crime than it prevents4 ,take1 for instance1 the ,southern ,states4 ,there is hardly a chapter in the history of the world the reading of which could produce greater indignation than the history of the convict system in many of the ,southern ,states4 ,these convicts are hired out for the purpose of building railways1 or plowing fields1 or digging coal1 and in some instances the death-rate has been over twelve per cent4 a month4 ,the evidence shows that no respect was paid to the sexes--men and women were chained together indiscriminately4 ,the evidence also shows that for the slightest offences they were shot down like beasts4 ,they were pursued by hounds1 and their flesh was torn from their bones4 ,so in some of the ,northern prisons they have what they call the weighing machine--an infamous thing1 and he who uses it commits as great a crime as the convict he punishes could have committed4 ,all these things are degrading1 debasing1 and demoralizing4 ,there is no need of any such punishment in any penitentiary4 ,let the punishment be of such kind that the convict is responsible himself4 ,for instance1 if the convict refuses to obey a reasonable rule he can be put into a cell4 ,he can be fed when he obeys the rule4 ,if he goes hungry it is his own fault4 ,it depends upon himself to say when he shall eat4 ,or he may be placed in such a position that if he does not work--if he does not pump--the water will rise and drown him4 ,if the water does rise it is his fault4 ,nobody pours it upon him4 ,he takes his choice4 ,these are suggested as desperate cases1 but ,i can imagine no case where what is called corporal punishment should be inflicted1 and the reason ,i am against it is this3 ,i am opposed to any punishment that cannot be inflicted by a gentleman4 ,i am opposed to any punishment the infliction of which tends to harden and debase the man who inflicts it4 ,i am for no laws that have to be carried out by human curs4 ,take1 for instance1 the whipping-post4 ,nothing can be more degrading4 ,the man who applies the lash is necessarily a cruel and vulgar man1 and the oftener he applies it the more and more debased he will become4 ,the whole thing can be stated in the one sentence3 ,i am opposed to any punishment that cannot be inflicted by a gentleman1 and by gentleman ,i mean a self-respecting1 honest1 generous man4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the efficacy or the propriety of punishing criminals by solitary confinement8 ,answer4 ,solitary confinement is a species of torture4 ,i am opposed to all torture4 ,i think the criminal should not be punished4 ,he should be reformed1 if he is capable of reformation4 ,but1 whatever is done1 it should not be done as a punishment4 ,society should be too noble1 too generous1 to harbor a thought of revenge4 ,society should not punish1 it should protect itself only4 ,it should endeavor to reform the individual4 ,now1 solitary confinement does not1 ,i imagine1 tend to the reformation of the individual4 ,neither can the person in that position do good to any human being4 ,the prisoner will be altogether happier when his mind is engaged1 when his hands are busy1 when he has something to do4 ,this keeps alive what we call cheerfulness4 ,and let me say a word on this point4 ,i don't believe that the ,state ought to steal the labor of a convict4 ,here is a man who has a family4 ,he is sent to the penitentiary4 ,he works from morning till night4 ,now1 in my judgment1 he ought to be paid for the labor over and above what it costs to keep him4 ,that money should be sent to his family4 ,that money should be subject1 at least1 to his direction4 ,if he is a single man1 when he comes out of the penitentiary he should be given his earnings1 and all his earnings1 so that he would not have the feeling that he had been robbed4 ,a statement should be given to him to show what it had cost to keep him and how much his labor had brought and the balance remaining in his favor4 ,with this little balance he could go out into the world with something like independence4 ,this little balance would be a foundation for his honesty--a foundation for a resolution on his part to be a man4 ,but now each one goes out with the feeling that he has not only been punished for the crime which he committed1 but that he has been robbed of the results of his labor while there4 ,the idea is simply preposterous that the people sent to the penitentiary should live in idleness4 ,they should have the benefit of their labor1 and if you give them the benefit of their labor they will turn out as good work as if they were out of the penitentiary4 ,they will have the same reason to do their best4 ,consequently1 poor articles1 poorly constructed things1 would not come into competition with good articles made by free people outside of the walls4 ,now many mechanics are complaining because work done in the penitentiaries is brought into competition with their work4 ,but the only reason that convict work is cheaper is because the poor wretch who does it is robbed4 ,the only reason that the work is poor is because the man who does it has no interest in its being good4 ,if he had the profit of his own labor he would do the best that was in him1 and the consequence would be that the wares manufactured in the prisons would be as good as those manufactured elsewhere4 ,for instance1 we will say here are three or four men working together4 ,they are all free men4 ,one commits a crime and he is sent to the penitentiary4 ,is it possible that his companions would object to his being paid for honest work in the penitentiary8 ,and let me say right here1 all labor is honest4 ,whoever makes a useful thing1 the labor is honest1 no matter whether the work is done in a penitentiary or in a palace2 in a hovel or the open field4 ,wherever work is done for the good of others1 it is honest work4 ,if the laboring men would stop and think1 they would know that they support everybody4 ,labor pays all the taxes4 ,labor supports all the penitentiaries4 ,labor pays the warden4 ,labor pays everything1 and if the convicts are allowed to live in idleness labor must pay their board4 ,every cent of tax is borne by the back of labor4 ,no matter whether your tariff is put on champagne and diamonds1 it has to be paid by the men and women who work--those who plow in the fields1 who wash and iron1 who stand by the forge1 who run the cars and work in the mines1 and by those who battle with the waves of the sea4 ,labor pays every bill4 ,there is one little thing to which ,i wish to call the attention of all who happen to read this interview1 and that is this3 ,undoubtedly you think of all criminals with horror and when you hear about them you are1 in all probability1 filled with virtuous indignation4 ,but1 first of all1 ,i want you to think of what you have in fact done4 ,secondly1 ,i want you to think of what you have wanted to do4 ,thirdly1 ,i want you to reflect whether you were prevented from doing what you wanted to do by fear or by lack of opportunity4 ,then perhaps you will have more charity4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the new legislation in the ,state changing the death penalty to death by electricity8 ,answer4 ,if death by electricity is less painful than hanging1 then the law1 so far as that goes1 is good4 ,there is not the slightest propriety in inflicting upon the person executed one single unnecessary pang1 because that partakes of the nature of revenge--that is to say1 of hatred--and1 as a consequence1 the ,state shows the same spirit that the criminal was animated by when he took the life of his neighbor4 ,if the death penalty is to be inflicted1 let it be done in the most humane way4 ,for my part1 ,i should like to see the criminal removed1 if he must be removed1 with the same care and with the same mercy that you would perform a surgical operation4 ,why inflict pain8 ,who wants it inflicted8 ,what good can it1 by any possibility1 do8 ,to inflict unnecessary pain hardens him who inflicts it1 hardens each among those who witness it1 and tends to demoralize the community4 ,question4 ,is it not the fact that punishments have grown less and less severe for many years past8 ,answer4 ,in the old times punishment was the only means of reformation4 ,if anybody did wrong1 punish him4 ,if people still continued to commit the same offence1 increase the punishment2 and that went on until in what they call civilized countries they hanged people1 provided they stole the value of one shilling4 ,but larceny kept right on4 ,there was no diminution4 ,so1 for treason1 barbarous punishments were inflicted4 ,those guilty of that offence were torn asunder by horses2 their entrails were cut out of them while they were yet living and thrown into their faces2 their bodies were quartered and their heads were set on pikes above the gates of the city4 ,yet there was a hundred times more treason then than now4 ,every time a man was executed and mutilated and tortured in this way the seeds of other treason were sown4 ,so in the church there was the same idea4 ,no reformation but by punishment4 ,of course in this world the punishment stopped when the poor wretch was dead4 ,it was found that that punishment did not reform1 so the church said3 ,after death it will go right on1 getting worse and worse1 forever and forever4 ,finally it was found that this did not tend to the reformation of mankind4 ,slowly the fires of hell have been dying out4 ,the climate has been changing from year to year4 ,men have lost confidence in the power of the thumbscrew1 the fagot1 and the rack here1 and they are losing confidence in the flames of perdition hereafter4 ,in other words1 it is simply a question of civilization4 ,when men become civilized in matters of thought1 they will know that every human being has the right to think for himself1 and the right to express his honest thought4 ,then the world of thought will be free4 ,at that time they will be intelligent enough to know that men have different thoughts1 that their ways are not alike1 because they have lived under different circumstances1 and in that time they will also know that men act as they are acted upon4 ,and it is my belief that the time will come when men will no more think of punishing a man because he has committed the crime of larceny than they will think of punishing a man because he has the consumption4 ,in the first case they will endeavor to reform him1 and in the second case they will endeavor to cure him4 ,the intelligent people of the world1 many of them1 are endeavoring to find out the great facts in ,nature that control the dispositions of men4 ,so other intelligent people are endeavoring to ascertain the facts and conditions that govern what we call health1 and what we call disease1 and the object of these people is finally to produce a race without disease of flesh and without disease of mind4 ,these people look forward to the time when there need to be neither hospitals nor penitentiaries4 --,new ,york ,world1 ,august #e1 #ahhh4 ,,woman',s ,,right ,,to ,,divorce4 ,question4 ,col4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll1 the great ,agnostic1 has always been an ardent defender of the sanctity of the home and of the marriage relation4 ,apropos of the horrible account of a man's tearing out the eyes of his wife at ,far ,rockaway last week1 ,colonel ,ingersoll was asked what recourse a woman had under such circumstances8 ,answer4 ,i read the account1 and ,i don't remember of ever having read anything more perfectly horrible and cruel4 ,it is impossible for me to imagine such a monster1 or to account for such an inhuman human being4 ,how a man could deprive a human being of sight1 except where some religious question is involved1 is beyond my comprehension4 ,we know that for many centuries frightful punishments were inflicted1 and inflicted by the pious1 by the theologians1 by the spiritual minded1 and by those who loved their neighbors as themselves4 ,we read the accounts of how the lids of men's eyes were cut off and then the poor victims tied where the sum would shine upon their lifeless orbs2 of others who were buried alive2 of others staked out on the sands of the sea1 to be drowned by the rising tide2 of others put in sacks filled with snakes4 ,yet these things appeared far away1 and we flattered ourselves that1 to a great degree1 the world had outgrown these atrocities2 and now1 here1 near the close of the nineteenth century1 we find a man--a husband--cruel enough to put out the eyes of the woman he swore to love1 protect and cherish4 ,this man has probably been taught that there is forgiveness for every crime1 and now imagines that when he repents there will be more joy in heaven over him than over ninety and nine good and loving husbands who have treated their wives in the best possible manner1 and who1 instead of tearing out their eyes1 have filled their lives with content and covered their faces with kisses4 ,question4 ,you told me1 last week1 in a general way1 what society should do with the husband in such a case as that4 ,i would like to ask you to-day1 what you think society ought to do with the wife in such a case1 or what ought the wife to be permitted to do for herself8 ,answer4 ,when we take into consideration the crime of the man who blinded his wife1 it is impossible not to think of the right of divorce4 ,many people insist that marriage is an indissoluble tie2 that nothing can break it1 and that nothing can release either party from the bond4 ,now1 take this case at ,far ,rockaway4 ,one year ago the husband tore out one of his wife's eyes4 ,had she then good cause for divorce8 ,is it possible that an infinitely wise and good ,god would insist on this poor1 helpless woman remaining with the wild beast1 her husband8 ,can anyone imagine that such a course would add to the joy of ,paradise1 or even tend to keep one harp in tune8 ,can the good of society require the woman to remain8 ,she did remain1 and the result is that the other eye has been torn from its socket by the hands of the husband4 ,is she entitled to a divorce now8 ,and if she is granted one1 is virtue in danger1 and shall we lose the high ideal of home life8 ,can anything be more infamous than to endeavor to make a woman1 under such circumstances1 remain with such a man8 ,it may be said that she should leave him--that they should live separate and apart4 ,that is to say1 that this woman should be deprived of a home2 that she should not be entitled to the love of man2 that she should remain1 for the rest of her days1 worse than a widow4 ,that is to say1 a wife1 hiding1 keeping out of the way1 secreting herself from the hyena to whom she was married4 ,nothing1 in my judgment1 can exceed the heartlessness of a law or of a creed that would compel this woman to remain the wife of this monster4 ,and it is not only cruel1 but it is immoral1 low1 vulgar4 ,the ground has been taken that woman would lose her dignity if marriages were dissoluble4 ,is it necessary to lose your freedom in order to retain your character1 in order to be womanly or manly8 ,must a woman in order to retain her womanhood become a slave1 a serf1 with a wild beast for a master1 or with society for a master1 or with a phantom for a master8 ,has not the married woman the right of self-defence8 ,is it not the duty of society to protect her from her husband8 ,if she owes no duty to her husband2 if it is impossible for her to feel toward him any thrill of affection1 what is there of marriage left8 ,what part of the contract remains in force8 ,she is not to live with him1 because she abhors him4 ,she is not to remain in the same house with him1 for fear he may kill her4 ,what1 then1 are their relations8 ,do they sustain any relation except that of hunter and hunted--that is1 of tyrant and victim8 ,and is it desirable that this relation should be rendered sacred by a church8 ,is it desirable to have families raised under such circumstances8 ,are we really in need of the children born of such parents8 ,if the woman is not in fault1 does society insist that her life should be wrecked8 ,can the virtue of others be preserved only by the destruction of her happiness1 and by what might be called her perpetual imprisonment8 ,i hope the clergy who believe in the sacredness of marriage--in the indissolubility of the marriage tie--will give their opinions on this case4 ,i believe that marriage is the most important contract that human beings can make4 ,i always believe that a man will keep his contract2 that a woman1 in the highest sense1 will keep hers1 ,but suppose the man does not4 ,is the woman still bound8 ,is there no mutuality8 ,what is a contract8 ,it is where one party promises to do something in consideration that the other party will do something4 ,that is to say1 there is a consideration on both sides1 moving from one to the other4 ,a contract without consideration is null and void2 and a contract duly entered into1 where the consideration of one party is withheld1 is voidable1 and can be voided by the party who has kept1 or who is willing to keep1 the contract4 ,a marriage without love is bad enough4 ,but what can we say of a marriage where the parties hate each other8 ,is there any morality in this--any virtue8 ,will any decent person say that a woman1 true1 good and loving1 should be compelled to live with a man she detests1 compelled to be the mother of his children8 ,is there a woman in the world who would not shrink from this herself8 ,and is there a woman so heartless and so immoral that she would force another to bear what she would shudderingly avoid8 ,let us bring these questions home4 ,in other words1 let us have some sense1 some feeling1 some heart--and just a little brain4 ,marriages are made by men and women4 ,they are not made by the ,state1 and they are not made by the gods4 ,by this time people should learn that human happiness is the foundation of virtue--the foundation of morality4 ,nothing is moral that does not tend to the well-being of sentient beings4 ,nothing is virtuous the result of which is not a human good4 ,the world has always been living for phantoms1 for ghosts1 for monsters begotten by ignorance and fear4 ,the world should learn to live for itself4 ,man should1 by this time1 be convinced that all the reasons for doing right1 and all the reasons for doing wrong1 are right here in this world--all within the horizon of this life4 ,and besides1 we should have imagination to put ourselves in the place of another4 ,let a man suppose himself a helpless wife1 beaten by a brute who believes in the indissolubility of marriage4 ,would he want a divorce8 ,i suppose that very few people have any adequate idea of the sufferings of women and children2 of the number of wives who tremble when they hear the footsteps of a returning husband2 of the number of children who hide when they hear the voice of a father4 ,very few people know the number of blows that fall on the flesh of the helpless every day4 ,few know the nights of terror passed by mothers holding young children at their breasts4 ,compared with this1 the hardships of poverty1 borne by those who love each other1 are nothing4 ,men and women1 truly married1 bear the sufferings of poverty4 ,they console each other2 their affection gives to the heart of each perpetual sunshine4 ,but think of the others6 ,i have said a thousand times that the home is the unit of good government4 ,when we have kind fathers and loving mothers1 then we shall have civilized nations1 and not until then4 ,civilization commences at the hearthstone4 ,when intelligence rocks the cradle--when the house is filled with philosophy and kindness--you will see a world a peace4 ,justice will sit in the courts1 wisdom in the legislative halls1 and over all1 like the dome of heaven1 will be the spirit of ,liberty6 ,question4 ,what is your idea with regard to divorce8 ,answer4 ,my idea is this3 ,as ,i said before1 marriage is the most sacred contract--the most important contract--that human beings can make4 ,as a rule1 the woman dowers the husband with her youth--with all she has4 ,from this contract the husband should never be released unless the wife has broken a condition2 that is to say1 has failed to fulfill the contract of marriage4 ,on the other hand1 the woman should be allowed a divorce for the asking4 ,this should be granted in public1 precisely as the marriage should be in public4 ,every marriage should be known4 ,there should be witnesses1 to the end that the character of the contract entered into should be understood2 and as all marriage records should be kept1 so the divorce should be open1 public and known4 ,the property should be divided by a court of equity1 under certain regulations of law4 ,if there are children1 they should be provided for through the property and the parents4 ,people should understand that men and women are not virtuous by law4 ,they should comprehend the fact that law does not create virtue--that law is not the foundation1 the fountain1 of love4 ,they should understand that love is in the human heart1 and that real love is virtuous4 ,people who love each other will be true to each other4 ,the death of love is the commencement of vice4 ,besides this1 there is a public opinion that has great weight4 ,when that public opinion is right1 it does a vast amount of good1 and when wrong1 a great amount of harm4 ,people marry1 or should marry1 because it increases the happiness of each and all4 ,but where the marriage turns out to have been a mistake1 and where the result is misery1 and not happiness1 the quicker they are divorced the better1 not only for themselves1 but for the community at large4 ,these arguments are generally answered by some donkey braying about free love1 and by free love he means a condition of society in which there is no love4 ,the persons who make this cry are1 in all probability1 incapable of the sentiment1 of the feeling1 known as love4 ,they judge others by themselves1 and they imagine that without law there would be no restraint4 ,what do they say of natural modesty8 ,do they forget that people have a choice8 ,do they not understand something of the human heart1 and that true love has always been as pure as the morning star8 ,do they believe that by forcing people to remain together who despise each other they are adding to the purity of the marriage relation8 ,do they not know that all marriage is an outward act1 testifying to that which has happened in the heart8 ,still1 ,i always believe that words are wasted on such people4 ,it is useless to talk to anybody about music who is unable to distinguish one tune from another4 ,it is useless to argue with a man who regards his wife as his property1 and it is hardly worth while to suggest anything to a gentleman who imagines that society is so constructed that it really requires1 for the protection of itself1 that the lives of good and noble women should be wrecked1 ,i am a believer in the virtue of women1 in the honesty of man4 ,the average woman is virtuous2 the average man is honest1 and the history of the world shows it4 ,if it were not so1 society would be impossible4 ,i don't mean by this that most men are perfect1 but what ,i mean is this3 ,that there is far more good than evil in the average human being1 and that the natural tendency of most people is toward the good and toward the right4 ,and ,i most passionately deny that the good of society demands that any good person should suffer4 ,i do not regard government as a ,juggernaut1 the wheels of which must1 of necessity1 roll over and crush the virtuous1 the self-denying and the good4 ,my doctrine is the exact opposite of what is known as free love4 ,i believe in the marriage of true minds and of true hearts4 ,but ,i believe that thousands of people are married who do not love each other4 ,that is the misfortune of our century4 ,other things are taken into consideration--position1 wealth1 title and the thousand things that have nothing to do with real affection4 ,where men and women truly love each other1 that love1 in my judgment1 lasts as long as life4 ,the greatest line that ,i know of in the poetry of the world is in the #aafth sonnet of ,shakespeare3 ,love is not love which alters when it alteration finds4 ,question4 ,why do you make such a distinction between the rights of man and the rights of women8 ,answer4 ,the woman has1 as her capital1 her youth1 her beauty4 ,we will say that she is married at twenty or twenty-five4 ,in a few years she has lost her beauty4 ,during these years the man1 so far as capacity to make money is concerned--to do something--has grown better and better4 ,that is to say1 his chances have improved2 hers have diminished4 ,she has dowered him with the ,spring of her life1 and as her life advances her chances decrease4 ,consequently1 ,i would give her the advantage1 and ,i would not compel her to remain with him against her will4 ,it seems to me far worse to be a wife upon compulsion than to be a husband upon compulsion4 ,besides this1 ,i have a feeling of infinite tenderness toward mothers4 ,the woman that bears children certainly should not be compelled to live with a man whom she despises4 ,the suffering is enough when the father of the child is to her the one man of all the world4 ,many people who have a mechanical apparatus in their breasts that assists in the circulation of what they call blood1 regard these views as sentimental4 ,but when you take sentiment out of the world nothing is left worth living for1 and when you get sentiment out of the heart it is nothing more or less than a pump1 an old piece of rubber that has acquired the habit of contracting and dilating4 ,but ,i have this consolation3 ,the people that do not agree with me are those that do not understand me4 --,new ,york ,world1 #ahhh4 ,,secularism4 ,question4 ,colonel1 what is your opinion of ,secularism8 ,do you regard it as a religion8 ,answer4 ,i understand that the word ,secularism embraces everything that is of any real interest or value to the human race4 ,i take it for granted that everybody will admit that well-being is the only good2 that is to say1 that it is impossible to conceive of anything of real value that does not tend either to preserve or to increase the happiness of some sentient being4 ,secularism1 therefore1 covers the entire territory4 ,it fills the circumference of human knowledge and of human effort4 ,it is1 you may say1 the religion of this world2 but if there is another world1 it is necessarily the religion of that1 as well4 ,man finds himself in this world naked and hungry4 ,he needs food1 raiment1 shelter4 ,he finds himself filled with almost innumerable wants4 ,to gratify these wants is the principal business of life4 ,to gratify them without interfering with other people is the course pursued by all honest men4 ,secularism teaches us to be good here and now4 ,i know nothing better than goodness4 ,secularism teaches us to be just here and now4 ,it is impossible to be juster than just4 ,man can be as just in this world as in any other1 and justice must be the same in all worlds4 ,secularism teaches a man to be generous1 and generosity is certainly as good here as it can be anywhere else4 ,secularism teaches a man to be charitable1 and certainly charity is as beautiful in this world and in this short life as it could be were man immortal4 ,but orthodox people insist that there is something higher than ,secularism2 but1 as a matter of fact1 the mind of man can conceive of nothing better1 nothing higher1 nothing more spiritual1 than goodness1 justice1 generosity1 charity4 ,neither has the mind of men been capable of finding a nobler incentive to action than human love4 ,secularism has to do with every possible relation4 ,it says to the young man and to the young woman3 ,don't marry unless you can take care of yourselves and your children4 ,it says to the parents3 ,live for your children2 put forth every effort to the end that your children may know more than you--that they may be better and grander than you4 ,it says3 ,you have no right to bring children into the world that you are not able to educate and feed and clothe4 ,it says to those who have diseases that can be transmitted to children3 ,do not marry2 do not become parents2 do not perpetuate suffering1 deformity1 agony1 imbecility1 insanity1 poverty1 wretchedness4 ,secularism tells all children to do the best they can for their parents--to discharge every duty and every obligation4 ,it defines the relation that should exist between husband and wife2 between parent and child2 between the citizen and the ,nation4 ,and not only that1 but between nations4 ,secularism is a religion that is to be used everywhere1 and at all times--that is to be taught everywhere and practiced at all times4 ,it is not a religion that is so dangerous that it must be kept out of the schools2 it is not a religion that is so dangerous that it must be kept out of politics4 ,it belongs in the schools2 it belongs at the polls4 ,it is the business of ,secularism to teach every child2 to teach every voter4 ,it is its business to discuss all political problems1 and to decide all questions that affect the rights or the happiness of a human being4 ,orthodox religion is a firebrand2 it must be kept out of the schools2 it must be kept out of politics4 ,all the churches unite in saying that orthodox religion is not for every day use4 ,the ,catholics object to any ,protestant religion being taught to children4 ,protestants object to any ,catholic religion being taught to children4 ,but the ,secularist wants his religion taught to all2 and his religion can produce no feeling1 for the reason that it consists of facts--of truths4 ,and all of it is important2 important for the child1 important for the parent1 important for the politician --for the ,president--for all in power2 important to every legislator1 to every professional man1 to every laborer and every farmer--that is to say1 to every human being4 ,the great benefit of ,secularism is that is appeals to the reason of every man4 ,it asks every man to think for himself4 ,it does not threaten punishment if a man thinks1 but it offers a reward1 for fear that he will not think4 ,it does not say1 ,you will be damned in another world if you think4 ,but it says1 ,you will be damned in this world if you do not think4 ,secularism preserves the manhood and the womanhood of all4 ,it says to each human being3 ,stand upon your own feet4 ,count one6 ,examine for yourself4 ,investigate1 observe1 think4 ,express your opinion4 ,stand by your judgment1 unless you are convinced you are wrong1 and when you are convinced1 you can maintain and preserve your manhood or womanhood only by admitting that you were wrong4 ,it is impossible that the whole world should agree on one creed4 ,it may be impossible that any two human beings can agree exactly in religious belief4 ,secularism teaches that each one must take care of himself1 that the first duty of man is to himself1 to the end that he may be not only useful to himself1 but to others4 ,he who fails to take care of himself becomes a burden2 the first duty of man is not to be a burden4 ,every ,secularist can give a reason for his creed4 ,first of all1 he believes in work--taking care of himself4 ,he believes in the cultivation of the intellect1 to the end that he may take advantage of the forces of nature--to the end that he may be clothed and fed and sheltered4 ,he also believes in giving to every other human being every right that he claims for himself4 ,he does not depend on prayer4 ,he has no confidence in ghosts or phantoms4 ,he knows nothing of another world1 and knows just as little of a ,first ,cause4 ,but what little he does know1 he endeavors to use1 and to use for the benefit of himself and others4 ,he knows that he sustains certain relations to other sentient beings1 and he endeavors to add to the aggregate of human joy4 ,he is his own church1 his own priest1 his own clergyman and his own pope4 ,he decides for himself2 in other words1 he is a free man4 ,he also has a ,bible1 and this ,bible embraces all the good and true things that have been written1 no matter by whom1 or in what language1 or in what time4 ,he accepts everything that he believes to be true1 and rejects all that he thinks is false4 ,he knows that nothing is added to the probability of an event1 because there has been an account of it written and printed4 ,all that has been said that is true is part of his ,bible4 ,every splendid and noble thought1 every good word1 every kind action-- all these you will find in his ,bible4 ,and1 in addition to these1 all that is absolutely known--that has been demonstrated--belongs to the ,secularist4 ,all the inventions1 machines--everything that has been of assistance to the human race--belongs to his religion4 ,the ,secularist is in possession of everything that man has4 ,he is deprived only of that which man never had4 ,the orthodox world believes in ghosts and phantoms1 in dreams and prayers1 in miracles and monstrosities2 that is to say1 in modern theology4 ,but these things do not exist1 or if they do exist1 it is impossible for a human being to ascertain the fact4 ,secularism has no castles in ,spain4 ,it has no glorified fog4 ,it depends upon realities1 upon demonstrations2 and its end and aim is to make this world better every day--to do away with poverty and crime1 and to cover the world with happy and contended homes4 ,let me say1 right here1 that a few years ago the ,secular ,hall at ,leicester1 ,england1 was opened by a speech from ,george ,jacob ,holyoake1 entitled1 ,secularism as a ,religion4 ,i have never read anything better on the subject of ,secularism than this address4 ,it is so clear and so manly that ,i do not see how any human being can read it without becoming convinced1 and almost enraptured4 ,let me quote a few lies from this address3-- ,the mind of man would die if it were not for ,thought1 and were ,thought suppressed1 ,god would rule over a world of idiots4 ,nature feeds ,thought1 day and night1 with a million hands4 ,to think is a duty1 because it is a man's duty not to be a fool4 ,if man does not think himself1 he is an intellectual pauper1 living upon the truth acquired by others1 and making no contribution himself in return4 ,he has no ideas but such as he obtains by 'out- door relief1' and he goes about the world with a charity mind4 ,the more thinkers there are in the world1 the more truth there is in the world4 ,progress can only walk in the footsteps of ,conviction4 ,coercion in thought is not progress1 it reduces to ignominious pulp the backbone of the mind4 ,by ,religion ,i mean the simple creed of deed and duty1 by which a man seeks his own welfare in his own way1 with an honest and fair regard to the welfare and ways of others4 ,in these thinking and practical days1 men demand a religion of daily life1 which stands on a business footing4 ,i think nothing could be much better than the following1 which shows the exact relation that orthodox religion sustains to the actual wants of human beings3 ,the ,churches administer a system of ,foreign ,affairs4 ,secularism dwells in a land of its own4 ,it dwells in a land of ,certitude4 ,in the ,kingdom of ,thought there is no conquest over man1 but over foolishness only4 ,i will not quote more1 but hope all who read this will read the address of ,mr4 ,holyoake1 who has1 in my judgment1 defined ,secularism with the greatest possible clearness4 ,question4 ,what1 in your opinion1 are the best possible means to spread this gospel or religion of ,secularism8 ,answer4 ,this can only be done by the cultivation of the mind-- only through intelligence--because we are fighting only the monsters of the mind4 ,the phantoms whom we are endeavoring to destroy do not exist2 they are all imaginary4 ,they live in that undeveloped or unexplored part of the mind that belongs to barbarism4 ,i have sometimes thought that a certain portion of the mind is cultivated so that it rises above the surrounding faculties and is like some peak that has lifted itself above the clouds1 while all the valleys below are dark or dim with mist and cloud4 ,it is in this valley-region1 amid these mists1 beneath these clouds1 that these monsters and phantoms are born4 ,and there they will remain until the mind sheds light--until the brain is developed4 ,one exceedingly important thing is to teach man that his mind has limitations2 that there are walls that he cannot scale--that he cannot pierce1 that he cannot dig under4 ,when a man finds the limitations of his own mind1 he knows that other people's minds have limitations4 ,he1 instead of believing what the priest says1 he asks the priest questions4 ,in a few moments he finds that the priest has been drawing on his imagination for what is beyond the wall4 ,consequently he finds that the priest knows no more than he1 and it is impossible that he should know more than he4 ,an ignorant man has not the slightest suspicion of what a superior man may do4 ,consequently1 he is liable to become the victim of the intelligent and cunning4 ,a man wholly unacquainted with chemistry1 after having been shown a few wonders1 is ready to believe anything4 ,but a chemist who knows something of the limitations of that science--who knows what chemists have done and who knows the nature of things--cannot be imposed upon4 ,when no one can be imposed upon1 orthodox religion cannot exist4 ,it is an imposture1 and there must be impostors and there must be victims1 or the religion cannot be a success4 ,secularism cannot be a success1 universally1 as long as there is an impostor or a victim4 ,this is the difference3 ,the foundation of orthodox religion is imposture4 ,the foundation of ,secularism is demonstration4 ,just to the extent that a man knows1 he becomes a ,secularist4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the action of the ,knights of ,labor in ,indiana in turning out one of their members because he was an ,atheist1 and because he objected to the reading of the ,bible at lodge meetings8 ,answer4 ,in my judgment1 the ,knights of ,labor have made a great mistake4 ,they want liberty for themselves--they feel that1 to a certain extent1 they have been enslaved and robbed4 ,if they want liberty1 they should be willing to give liberty to others4 ,certainly one of their members has the same right to his opinion with regard to the existence of a ,god1 that the other members have to theirs4 ,i do not blame this man for doubting the existence of a ,supreme ,being1 provided he understands the history of liberty4 ,when a man takes into consideration the fact that for many thousands of years labor was unpaid1 nearly all of it being done by slaves1 and that millions and hundreds of millions of human beings were bought and sold the same as cattle1 and that during all that time the religions of the world upheld the practice1 and the priests of the countless unknown gods insisted that the institution of slavery was divine-- ,i do not wonder that he comes to the conclusion that1 perhaps1 after all1 there is no ,supreme ,being--at least none who pays any particular attention to the affairs of this world4 ,if one will read the history of the slave-trade1 of the cruelties practiced1 of the lives sacrificed1 of the tortures inflicted1 he will at least wonder why a ,god of infinite goodness and wisdom did not interfere just a little2 or1 at least1 why he did not deny that he was in favor of the trade4 ,here1 in our own country1 millions of men were enslaved1 and hundreds and thousands of ministers stood up in their pulpits1 with their ,bibles in front of them1 and proceeded to show that slavery was about the only institution that they were absolutely certain was divine4 ,and they proved it by reading passages from this very ,bible that the ,knights of ,labor in ,indiana are anxious to have read in their meetings4 ,for their benefit1 let me call their attention to a few passages1 and suggest that1 hereafter1 they read those passages at every meeting1 for the purpose of convincing all the ,knights that the ,lord is on the side of those who work for a living3-- ,both thy bondsmen and thy bondsmaids which thou shalt have1 shall be of the heathen round about you2 of them shall ye buy bondsmen and bondmaids4 ,moreover1 of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you1 of them shall ye buy1 and of their families which are with you1 which they begat in your land2 and they shall be your possession4 ,and ye shall take them as an inheritance1 for your children after you to inherit them for a possession4 ,they shall be your bondsmen forever4 ,nothing seems more natural to me than that a man who believes that labor should be free1 and that he who works should be free1 should come to the conclusion that the passages above quoted are not entirely on his side4 ,i don't see why people should be in favor of free bodies who are not also in favor of free minds4 ,if the mind is to remain in imprisonment1 it is hardly worth while to free the body4 ,if the man has the right to labor1 he certainly has the right to use his mind1 because without mind he can do no labor4 ,as a rule1 the more mind he has1 the more valuable his labor is1 and the freer his mind is the more valuable he is4 ,if the ,knights of ,labor expect to accomplish anything in this world1 they must do it by thinking4 ,they must have reason on their side1 and the only way they can do anything by thinking is to allow each other to think4 ,let all the men who do not believe in the inspiration of the ,bible1 leave the ,knights of ,labor and ,i do not know how many would be left4 ,but ,i am perfectly certain that those left will accomplish very little1 simply from their lack of sense4 ,intelligent clergymen have abandoned the idea of plenary inspiration4 ,the best ministers in the country admit that the ,bible is full of mistakes1 and while many of them are forced to say that slavery is upheld by the ,old ,testament they also insist that slavery was and is1 and forever will be wrong4 ,what had the ,knights of ,labor to do with a question of religion8 ,what business is it of theirs who believes or disbelieves in the religion of the day8 ,nobody can defend the rights of labor without defending the right to think4 ,i hope that in time these ,knights will become intelligent enough to read in their meetings something of importance2 something that applies to this century2 something that will throw a little light on questions under discussion at the present time4 ,the idea of men engaged in a kind of revolution reading from ,leviticus1 ,deuteronomy and ,haggai1 for the purpose of determining the rights of workingmen in the nineteenth century6 ,no wonder such men have been swallowed by the whale of monopoly4 ,and no wonder that1 while that are in the belly of this fish1 they insist on casting out a man with sense enough to understand the situation6 ,the ,knights of ,labor have made a mistake and the sooner they reverse their action the better for all concerned4 ,nothing should be taught in this world that somebody does not know4 --,secular ,thought1 ,toronto1 ,canada1 ,august #be1 #ahhh4 ,,summer ,,recreation--,,mr4 ,,gladstone4 ,question4 ,what is the best philosophy of summer recreation8 ,answer4 ,as a matter of fact1 no one should be overworked4 ,recreation becomes necessary only when a man has abused himself or has been abused4 ,holidays grew out of slavery4 ,an intelligent man ought not to work so hard to-day that he is compelled to rest to-morrow4 ,each day should have its labor and its rest4 ,but in our civilization1 if it can be called civilization1 every man is expected to devote himself entirely to business for the most of the year and by that means to get into such a state of body and mind that he requires1 for the purpose of recreation1 the inconveniences1 the poor diet1 the horrible beds1 the little towels1 the warm water1 the stale eggs and the tough beef of the average resort4 ,for the purpose of getting his mental and physical machinery in fine working order1 he should live in a room for two or three months that is about eleven by thirteen2 that is to say1 he should live in a trunk1 fight mosquitoes1 quarrel with strangers1 dispute bills1 and generally enjoy himself2 and this is supposed to be the philosophy of summer recreation4 ,he can do this1 or he can go to some extremely fashionable resort where his time is taken up in making himself and family presentable4 ,seriously1 there are few better summer resorts than ,new ,york ,city4 ,if there were no city here it would be the greatest resort for the summer on the continent2 with its rivers1 its bay1 with its wonderful scenery1 with the winds from the sea1 no better could be found4 ,but we cannot in this age of the world live in accordance with philosophy4 ,no particular theory can be carried out4 ,we must live as we must2 we must earn our bread and we must earn it as others do1 and1 as a rule1 we must work when others work4 ,consequently1 if we are to take any recreation we must follow the example of others2 go when they go and come when they come4 ,in other words1 man is a social being1 and if one endeavors to carry individuality to an extreme he must suffer the consequences4 ,so ,i have made up my mind to work as little as ,i can and to rest as much as ,i can4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,mr4 ,gladstone as a controversialist8 ,answer4 ,undoubtedly ,mr4 ,gladstone is a man of great talent1 of vast and varied information1 and undoubtedly he is1 politically speaking1 at least1 one of the greatest men in ,england--possibly the greatest4 ,as a controversialist1 and ,i suppose by that you mean on religious questions1 he is certainly as good as his cause4 ,few men can better defend the indefensible than ,mr4 ,gladstone4 ,few men can bring forward more probabilities in favor of the impossible1 then ,mr4 ,gladstone4 ,he is1 in my judgment1 controlled in the realm of religion by sentiment2 he was taught long ago certain things as absolute truths and he has never questioned them4 ,he has had all he can do to defend them4 ,it is of but little use to attack sentiment with argument1 or to attack argument with sentiment4 ,a question of sentiment can hardly be discussed2 it is like a question of taste4 ,a man is enraptured with a landscape by ,corot2 you cannot argue him out of his rapture2 the sharper the criticism the greater his admiration1 because he feels that it is incumbent upon him to defend the painter who has given him so much real pleasure4 ,some people imagine that what they think ought to exist must exist1 and that what they really desire to be true is true4 ,we must remember that ,mr4 ,gladstone has been what is called a deeply religions man all his life4 ,there was a time when he really believed it to be the duty of the government to see to it that the citizens were religious2 when he really believed that no man should hold any office or any position under the government who was not a believer in the established religion2 who was not a defender of the parliamentary faith4 ,i do not know whether he has ever changed his opinions upon these subjects or not4 ,there is not the slightest doubt as to his honesty1 as to his candor4 ,he says what he believes1 and for his belief he gives the reasons that are satisfactory to him4 ,to me it seems impossible that miracles can be defended4 ,i do not see how it is possible to bring forward any evidence that any miracle was ever performed2 and unless miracles have been performed1 ,christianity has no basis as a system4 ,mr4 ,hume took the ground that it was impossible to substantiate a miracle1 for the reason that it is more probable that the witnesses are mistaken1 or are dishonest1 than that a fact in nature should be violated4 ,for instance3 ,a man says that a certain time1 in a certain locality1 the attraction of gravitation was suspended2 that there were several moments during which a cannon ball weighed nothing1 during which when dropped from the hand1 or rather when released from the hand1 it refused to fall and remained in the air4 ,it is safe to say that no amount of evidence1 no number of witnesses1 could convince an intelligent man to-day that such a thing occurred4 ,we believe too thoroughly in the constancy of nature4 ,while men will not believe witnesses who testify to the happening of miracles now1 they seem to have perfect confidence in men whom they never saw1 who have been dead for two thousand years4 ,of course it is known that ,mr4 ,gladstone has published a few remarks concerning my religious views and that ,i have answered him the best ,i could4 ,i have no opinion to give as to that controversy2 neither would it be proper for me to say what ,i think of the arguments advanced by ,mr4 ,gladstone in addition to what ,i have already published4 ,i am willing to leave the controversy where it is1 or ,i am ready to answer any further objections that ,mr4 ,gladstone may be pleased to urge4 ,in my judgment1 the ,age of ,faith is passing away4 ,we are living in a time of demonstration4 ,,note3 ,from an unfinished interview found among ,colonel ,ingersoll's papers4 ,,prohibition4 ,it has been decided in many courts in various ,states that the traffic in liquor can be regulated--that it is a police question4 ,it has been decided by the courts in ,iowa that its manufacture and sale can be prohibited1 and1 not only so1 but that a distillery or a brewery may be declared a nuisance and may legally be abated1 and these decisions have been upheld by the ,supreme ,court of the ,united ,states4 ,consequently1 it has been settled by the highest tribunal that ,states have the power either to regulate or to prohibit the sale of intoxicating liquors1 and not only so1 but that ,states have the power to destroy breweries and distilleries without making any compensation to owners4 ,so it has always been considered within the power of the ,state to license the selling of intoxicating liquors4 ,in other words1 this question is one that the ,states can decide for themselves4 ,it is not1 and it should not be1 in my judgment1 a ,federal question4 ,it is something with which the ,united ,states has nothing to do4 ,it belongs to the ,states2 and where a majority of the people are in favor of prohibition and pass laws to that effect1 there is nothing in the ,constitution of the ,united ,states that interferes with such action4 ,the remaining question1 then1 is not a question of power1 but a question of policy1 and at the threshold of this question is another3 ,can prohibitory laws be enforced8 ,there are to-day in ,kansas1--a prohibition ,state--more saloons1 that is to say1 more places in which liquor is sold1 than there are in ,georgia1 a ,state without prohibition legislation4 ,there are more in ,nebraska1 according to the population1 more in ,iowa1 according to the population1 than in many of the ,states in which there is the old license system4 ,you will find that the ,united ,states has granted more licenses to wholesale and retail dealers in these prohibition ,states1--according to the population1--than in many others in which prohibition has not been adopted4 ,these facts tend to show that it is not enough for the ,legislature to say3 ,be it enacted4 ,behind every law there must be an intelligent and powerful public opinion4 ,a law1 to be enforced1 must be the expression of such powerful and intelligent opinion2 otherwise it becomes a dead letter2 it is avoided2 judges continue the cases1 juries refuse to convict1 and witnesses are not particular about telling the truth4 ,such laws demoralize the community1 or1 to put it in another way1 demoralized communities pass such laws4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the prohibitory movement on general principles8 ,answer4 ,the trouble is that when a few zealous men1 intending to reform the world1 endeavor to enforce unpopular laws1 they are compelled to resort to detectives1 to a system of espionage4 ,for the purpose of preventing the sale of liquors somebody has to watch4 ,eyes and ears must become acquainted with keyholes4 ,every neighbor suspects every other4 ,a man with a bottle or demijohn is followed4 ,those who drink get behind doors1 in cellars and garrets4 ,hypocrisy becomes substantially universal4 ,hundreds of people become suddenly afflicted with a variety of diseases1 for the cure of which alcohol in some form is supposed to be indispensable4 ,malaria becomes general1 and it is perfectly astonishing how long a few pieces of ,peruvian bark will last1 and how often the liquor can be renewed without absorbing the medicinal qualities of the bark4 ,the ,state becomes a paradise for patent medicine--the medicine being poor whiskey with a scientific name4 ,physicians become popular in proportion as liquor of some kind figures in their prescriptions4 ,then in the towns clubs are formed1 the principal object being to establish a saloon1 and in many instances the drug store becomes a favorite resort1 especially on ,sundays4 ,there is1 however1 another side to this question4 ,it is this3 ,nothing in the world is more important than personal liberty4 ,many people are in favor of blotting out the sun to prevent the growth of weeds4 ,this is the mistake of all prohibitory fanaticism4 ,question4 ,what is true temperance1 ,colonel ,ingersoll8 ,answer4 ,men have used stimulants for many thousand years1 and as much is used to-day in various forms as in any other period of the world's history4 ,they are used with more prudence now than ever before1 for the reason that the average man is more intelligent now than ever before4 ,intelligence has much to do with temperance4 ,the barbarian rushes to the extreme1 for the reason that but little1 comparatively1 depends upon his personal conduct or personal habits4 ,now the struggle for life is so sharp1 competition is so severe1 that few men can succeed who carry a useless burden4 ,the business men of our country are compelled to lead temperate lives1 otherwise their credit is gone4 ,men of wealth1 men of intelligence1 do not wish to employ intemperate physicians4 ,they are not willing to trust their health or their lives with a physician who is under the influence of liquor4 ,the same is true of business men in regard to their legal interests4 ,they insist upon having sober attorneys2 they want the counsel of a sober man4 ,so in every department4 ,on the railways it is absolutely essential that the engineer1 that the conductor1 the train dispatcher and every other employee1 in whose hands are the lives of men1 should be temperate4 ,the consequence is that under the law of the survival of the fittest1 the intemperate are slowly but surely going to the wall2 they are slowly but surely being driven out of employments of trust and importance4 ,as we rise in the scale of civilization we continually demand better and better service4 ,we are continually insisting upon better habits1 upon a higher standard of integrity1 of fidelity4 ,these are the causes1 in my judgment1 that are working together in the direction of true temperance4 ,question4 ,do you believe the people can be made to do without a stimulant8 ,answer4 ,the history of the world shows that all men who have advanced one step beyond utter barbarism have used some kind of stimulant4 ,man has sought for it in every direction4 ,every savage loves it4 ,everything has been tried4 ,opium has been used by many hundreds of millions4 ,hasheesh has filled countless brains with chaotic dreams1 and everywhere that civilization has gone the blood of the grape has been used4 ,nothing is easier now to obtain than liquor4 ,in one bushel of corn there are at least five gallons-- four can easily be extracted4 ,all starch1 all sugars1 can be changed almost instantly into alcohol4 ,every grain that grows has in it the intoxicating principle1 and1 as a matter of fact1 nearly all of the corn1 wheat1 sugar and starch that man eats is changed into alcohol in his stomach4 ,whether man can be compelled to do without a stimulant is a question that ,i am unable to answer4 ,of one thing ,i am certain3 ,he has never yet been compelled to do without one4 ,the tendency1 ,i think1 of modern times is toward a milder stimulant than distilled liquors4 ,whisky and brandies are too strong2 wine and beer occupy the middle ground4 ,wine is a fireside1 whisky a conflagration4 ,it seems to me that it would be far better if the ,prohibitionists would turn their attention toward distilled spirits4 ,if they were willing to compromise1 the probability is that they would have public opinion on their side4 ,if they would say3 ,you may have all the beer and all the wine and cider you wish1 and you can drink them when and where you desire1 but the sale of distilled spirits shall be prohibited1 it is possible that this could be carried out in good faith in many if not in most of the ,states--possibly in all4 ,we all know the effect of wine1 even when taken in excess1 is nothing near as disastrous as the effect of distilled spirits4 ,why not take the middle ground8 ,the wine drinkers of the old country are not drunkards4 ,they have been drinking wine for generations4 ,it is drunk by men1 women and children4 ,it adds to the sociability of the family4 ,it does not separate the husband from the rest1 it keeps them all together1 and in that view is rather a benefit than an injury4 ,good wine can be raised as cheaply here as in any part of the world4 ,in nearly every part of our country the grape grows and good wine can be made4 ,if our people had a taste for wine they would lose the taste for stronger drink1 and they would be disgusted with the surroundings of the stronger drink4 ,the same may be said in favor of beer4 ,as long as the ,prohibitionists make no distinction between wine and whisky1 between beer and brandy1 just so long they will be regarded by most people as fanatics4 ,the ,prohibitionists cannot expect to make this question a ,federal one4 ,the ,united ,states has no jurisdiction of this subject4 ,congress can pass no laws affecting this question that could have any force except in such parts of our country as are not within the jurisdiction of ,states4 ,it is a question for the ,states and not for the ,federal ,government4 ,the ,prohibitionists are simply throwing away their votes4 ,let us suppose that we had a ,prohibition ,congress and a ,prohibition ,president--what steps could be taken to do away with drinking in the city of ,new ,york8 ,what steps could be taken in any ,state of this ,union8 ,what could by any possibility be done8 ,a few years ago the ,prohibitionists demanded above all things that the tax be taken from distilled spirits1 claiming at that time that such a tax made the ,government a partner in vice4 ,now when the ,republican party proposes under certain circumstances to remove that tax1 the ,prohibitionists denounce the movement as one in favor of intemperance4 ,we have also been told that the tax on whisky should be kept for the reason that it increases the price1 and that an increased price tends to make a temperate people2 that if the tax is taken off1 the price will fall and the whole country start on the downward road to destruction4 ,is it possible that human nature stands on such slippery ground8 ,it is possible that our civilization to-day rests upon the price of alcohol1 and that1 should the price be reduced1 we would all go down together8 ,for one1 ,i cannot entertain such a humiliating and disgraceful view of human nature4 ,i believe that man is destined to grow greater1 grander and nobler4 ,i believe that no matter what the cost of alcohol may be1 life will grow too valuable to be thrown away4 ,men hold life according to its value4 ,men1 as a rule1 only throw away their lives when they are not worth keeping4 ,when life becomes worth living it will be carefully preserved and will be hoarded to the last grain of sand that falls through the glass of time4 ,question4 ,what is the reason for so much intemperance8 ,answer4 ,when many people are failures1 when they are distanced in the race1 when they fall behind1 when they give up1 when they lose ambition1 when they finally become convinced that they are worthless1 precisely as they are in danger of becoming dishonest4 ,in other words1 having failed in the race of life on the highway1 they endeavor to reach to goal by going across lots1 by crawling through the grass4 ,disguise this matter as we may1 all people are not successes1 all people have not the brain or the muscle or the moral stamina necessary to succeed4 ,some fall in one way1 some in another2 some in the net of strong drink1 some in the web of circumstances and others in a thousand ways1 and the world itself cannot grow better unless the unworthy fail4 ,the law is the survival of the fittest1 that is to say1 the destruction of the unfit4 ,there is no scheme of morals1 no scheme of government1 no scheme of charity1 that can reverse this law4 ,if it could be reversed1 then the result would be the survival of the unfittest1 the speedy end of which would be the extinction of the human race4 ,temperance men say that it is wise1 in so far as possible1 to remove temptation from our fellow-men4 ,let us look at this in regard to other matters4 ,how do we do away with larceny8 ,we cannot remove property4 ,we cannot destroy the money of the world to keep people from stealing some of it4 ,in other words1 we cannot afford to make the world valueless to prevent larceny4 ,all strength by which temptation is resisted must come from the inside4 ,virtue does not depend upon the obstacles to be overcome2 virtue depends upon what is inside of the man4 ,a man is not honest because the safe of the bank is perfectly secure4 ,upon the honest man the condition of the safe has no effect4 ,we will never succeed in raising great and splendid people by keeping them out of temptation4 ,great people withstand temptation4 ,great people have what may be called moral muscle1 moral force4 ,they are poised within themselves4 ,they understand their relations to the world4 ,the best possible foundation for honesty is the intellectual perception that dishonesty can1 under no circumstances1 be a good investment--that larceny is not only wicked1 but foolish--not only criminal1 but stupid--that crimes are committed only by fools4 ,on every hand there is what is called temptation4 ,every man has the opportunity of doing wrong4 ,every man1 in this country1 has the opportunity of drinking too much1 has the opportunity of acquiring the opium habit1 has the opportunity of taking morphine every day--in other words1 has the opportunity of destroying himself4 ,how are they to be prevented8 ,most of them are prevented--at least in a reasonable degree--and they are prevented by their intelligence1 by their surroundings1 by their education1 by their objects and aims in life1 by the people they love1 by the people who love them4 ,no one will deny the evils of intemperance1 and it is hardly to be wondered at that people who regard only one side--who think of the impoverished and wretched1 of wives and children in want1 of desolate homes--become the advocates of absolute prohibition4 ,at the same time1 there is a philosophic side1 and the question is whether more good cannot be done by moral influence1 by example1 by education1 by the gradual civilization of our fellow-men1 than in any other possible way4 ,the greatest things are accomplished by indirection4 ,in this way the idea of force1 of slavery1 is avoided4 ,the person influenced does not feel that he has been trampled upon1 does not regard himself as a victim--he feels rather as a pupil1 as one who receives a benefit1 whose mind has been enlarged1 whose life has been enriched--whereas the direct way of ,thou shalt not produces an antagonism--in other words1 produces the natural result of ,i will4 ,by removing one temptation you add strength to others4 ,by depriving a man of one stimulant1 as a rule1 you drive him to another1 and the other may be far worse than the one from which he has been driven4 ,we have hundreds of laws making certain things misdemeanors1 which are naturally right4 ,thousands of people1 honest in most directions1 delight in outwitting the ,government--derive absolute pleasure from getting in a few clothes and gloves and shawls without the payment of duty4 ,thousands of people buy things in ,europe for which they pay more than they would for the same things in ,america1 and then exercise their ingenuity in slipping them through the custom-house4 ,a law to have real force must spring from the nature of things1 and the justice of this law must be generally perceived1 otherwise it will be evaded4 ,the temperance people themselves are playing into the hands of the very party that would refuse to count their votes4 ,allow the ,democrats to remain in power1 allow the ,democrats to be controlled by the ,south1 and a large majority might be in favor of temperance legislation1 and yet the votes would remain uncounted4 ,the party of reform has a great interest in honest elections1 and honest elections must first be obtained as the foundation of reform4 ,the ,prohibitionists can take their choice between these parties4 ,would it not be far better for the ,prohibitionists to say3 ,we will vote for temperance men2 we will stand with the party that is the nearest in favor of what we deem to be the right8 ,they should also take into consideration that other people are as honest as they2 that others disbelieve in prohibition as honestly as they believe in it1 and that other people cannot leave their principles to vote for prohibition2 and they must remember1 that these other people are in the majority4 ,mr4 ,fisk knows that he cannot be elected ,president--knows that it is impossible for him to carry any ,state in the ,union4 ,he also knows that in nearly every ,state in the ,union--probably in all--a majority of the people believe in stimulants4 ,why not work with the great and enlightened majority8 ,why rush to the extreme for the purpose not only of making yourself useless but hurtful8 ,no man in the world is more opposed to intemperance than ,i am4 ,no man in the world feels more keenly the evils and the agony produced by the crime of drunkenness4 ,and yet ,i would not be willing to sacrifice liberty1 individuality1 and the glory and greatness of individual freedom1 to do away with all the evils of intemperance4 ,in other words1 ,i believe that slavery1 oppression and suppression would crowd humanity into a thousand deformities1 the result of which would be a thousand times more disastrous to the well-being of man4 ,i do not believe in the slave virtues1 in the monotony of tyranny1 in the respectability produced by force4 ,i admire the men who have grown in the atmosphere of liberty1 who have the pose of independence1 the virtues of strength1 of heroism1 and in whose hearts is the magnanimity1 the tenderness1 and the courage born of victory4 --,new ,york ,world1 ,october #ba1 #ahhh4 ,,robert ,,elsmere4 ,why do people read a book like ,robert ,elsmere1 and why do they take any interest in it8 ,simply because they are not satisfied with the religion of our day4 ,the civilized world has outgrown the greater part of the ,christian creed4 ,civilized people have lost their belief in the reforming power of punishment4 ,they find that whips and imprisonment have but little influence for good4 ,the truth has dawned upon their minds that eternal punishment is infinite cruelty--that it can serve no good purpose and that the eternity of hell makes heaven impossible4 ,that there can be in this universe no perfectly happy place while there is a perfectly miserable place--that no infinite being can be good who knowingly and1 as one may say1 willfully created myriads of human beings1 knowing that they would be eternally miserable4 ,in other words1 the civilized man is greater1 tenderer1 nobler1 nearer just than the old idea of ,god4 ,the ideal of a few thousand years ago is far below the real of to-day4 ,no good man now would do what ,jehovah is said to have done four thousand years ago1 and no civilized human being would now do what1 according to the ,christian religion1 ,christ threatens to do at the day of judgment4 ,question4 ,has the ,christian religion changed in theory of late years1 ,colonel ,ingersoll8 ,answer4 ,a few years ago the ,deists denied the inspiration of the ,bible on account of its cruelty4 ,at the same time they worshiped what they were pleased to call the ,god of ,nature4 ,now we are convinced that ,nature is as cruel as the ,bible2 so that1 if the ,god of ,nature did not write the ,bible1 this ,god at least has caused earthquakes and pestilence and famine1 and this ,god has allowed millions of his children to destroy one another4 ,so that now we have arrived at the question--not as to whether the ,bible is inspired and not as to whether ,jehovah is the real ,god1 but whether there is a ,god or not4 ,the intelligence of ,christendom to-day does not believe in an inspired art or an inspired literature4 ,if there be an infinite ,god1 inspiration in some particular regard would be a patch--it would be the puttying of a crack1 the hiding of a defect --in other words1 it would show that the general plan was defective4 ,question4 ,do you consider any religion adequate8 ,answer4 ,a good man1 living in ,england1 drawing a certain salary for reading certain prayers on stated occasions1 for making a few remarks on the subject of religion1 putting on clothes of a certain cut1 wearing a gown with certain frills and flounces starched in an orthodox manner1 and then looking about him at the suffering and agony of the world1 would not feel satisfied that he was doing anything of value for the human race4 ,in the first place1 he would deplore his own weakness1 his own poverty1 his inability to help his fellow-men4 ,he would long every moment for wealth1 that he might feed the hungry and clothe the naked--for knowledge1 for miraculous power1 that he might heal the sick and the lame and that he might give to the deformed the beauty of proportion4 ,he would begin to wonder how a being of infinite goodness and infinite power could allow his children to die1 to suffer1 to be deformed by necessity1 by poverty1 to be tempted beyond resistance2 how he could allow the few to live in luxury1 and the many in poverty and want1 and the more he wondered the more useless and ironical would seem to himself his sermons and his prayers4 ,such a man is driven to the conclusion that religion accomplishes but little--that it creates as much want as it alleviates1 and that it burdens the world with parasites4 ,such a man would be forced to think of the millions wasted in superstition4 ,in other words1 the inadequacy1 the uselessness of religion would be forced upon his mind4 ,he would ask himself the question3 ,is it possible that this is a divine institution8 ,is this all that man can do with the assistance of ,god8 ,is this the best8 ,question4 ,that is a perfectly reasonable question1 is it not1 ,colonel ,ingersoll8 ,answer4 ,the moment a man reaches the point where he asks himself this question he has ceased to be an orthodox ,christian4 ,it will not do to say that in some other world justice will be done4 ,if ,god allows injustice to triumph here1 why not there8 ,robert ,elsmere stands in the dawn of philosophy4 ,there is hardly light enough for him to see clearly2 but there is so much light that the stars in the night of superstition are obscured4 ,question4 ,you do not deny that a religious belief is a comfort8 ,answer4 ,there is one thing that it is impossible for me to comprehend4 ,why should any one1 when convinced that ,christianity is a superstition1 have or feel a sense of loss8 ,certainly a man acquainted with ,england1 with ,london1 having at the same time something like a heart1 must feel overwhelmed by the failure of what is known as ,christianity4 ,hundreds of thousands exist there without decent food1 dwelling in tenements1 clothed with rags1 familiar with every form of vulgar vice1 where the honest poor eat the crust that the vicious throw away4 ,when this man of intelligence1 of heart1 visits the courts2 when he finds human liberty a thing treated as of no value1 and when he hears the judge sentencing girls and boys to the penitentiary--knowing that a stain is being put upon them that all the tears of all the coming years can never wash away--knowing1 too1 and feeling that this is done without the slightest regret1 without the slightest sympathy1 as a mere matter of form1 and that the judge puts this brand of infamy upon the forehead of the convict just as cheerfully as a ,mexican brands his cattle2 and when this man of intelligence and heart knows that these poor people are simply the victims of society1 the unfortunates who stumble and over whose bodies rolls the ,juggernaut--he knows that there is1 or at least appears to be1 no power above or below working for righteousness--that from the heavens is stretched no protecting hand4 ,and when a man of intelligence and heart in ,england visits the workhouse1 the last resting place of honest labor2 when he thinks that the young man1 without any great intelligence1 but with a good constitution1 starts in the morning of his life for the workhouse1 and that it is impossible for the laboring man1 one who simply has his muscle1 to save anything2 that health is not able to lay anything by for the days of disease--when the man of intelligence and heart sees all this1 he is compelled to say that the civilization of to-day1 the religion of to-day1 the charity of to-day--no matter how much of good there may be behind them or in them1 are failures4 ,a few years ago people were satisfied when the minister said3 ,all this will be made even in another world2 a crust-eater here will sit at the head of the banquet there1 and the king here will beg for the crumbs that fall from the table there4 ,when this was said1 the poor man hoped and the king laughed4 ,a few years ago the church said to the slave3 ,you will be free in another world1 and your freedom will be made glorious by the perpetual spectacle of your master in hell4 ,but the people--that is1 many of the people--are no longer deceived by what once were considered fine phrases4 ,they have suffered so much that they no longer wish to see others suffer and no longer think of the suffering of others as a source of joy to themselves4 ,the poor see that the eternal starvation of kings and queens in another world will be no compensation for what they have suffered there4 ,the old religions appear vulgar and the ideas of rewards and punishments are only such as would satisfy a cannibal chief or one of his favorites4 ,question4 ,do you think the ,christian religion has made the world better8 ,answer4 ,for many centuries there has been preached and taught in an almost infinite number of ways a supernatural religion4 ,during all this time the world has been in the care of the ,infinite1 and yet every imaginable vice has flourished1 every imaginable pang has been suffered1 and every injustice has been done4 ,during all these years the priests have enslaved the minds1 and the kings the bodies1 of men4 ,the priests did what they did in the name of ,god1 and the kings appeal to the same source of authority4 ,man suffered as long as he could4 ,revolution1 reformation1 was simply a re- action1 a cry from the poor wretch that was between the upper and the nether millstone4 ,the liberty of man has increased just in the proportion that the authority of the gods has decreased4 ,in other words1 the wants of man1 instead of the wishes of ,god1 have inaugurated what we call progress1 and there is this difference3 ,theology is based upon the narrowest and intensest form of selfishness4 ,of course1 the theologian knows1 the ,christian knows1 that he can do nothing for ,god2 consequently all that he does must be and is for himself1 his object being to win the approbation of this ,god1 to the end that he may become a favorite4 ,on the other side1 men touched not only by their own misfortunes1 but by the misfortunes of others1 are moved not simply by selfishness1 but by a splendid sympathy with their fellow-men4 ,question4 ,christianity certainly fosters charity8 ,answer4 ,nothing is more cruel than orthodox theology1 nothing more heartless than a charitable institution4 ,for instance1 in ,england1 think for a moment of the manner in which charities are distributed1 the way in which the crust is flung at ,lazarus4 ,if that parable could be now retold1 the dogs would bite him4 ,the same is true in this country4 ,the institution has nothing but contempt for the one it relieves4 ,the people in charge regard the pauper as one who has wrecked himself4 ,they feel very much as a man would feel rescuing from the water some hare-brained wretch who had endeavored to swim the rapids of ,niagara--the moment they reach him they begin to upbraid him for being such a fool4 ,this course makes charity a hypocrite1 with every pauper for its enemy4 ,mrs4 ,ward compelled ,robert ,elsmere to perceive1 in some slight degree1 the failure of ,christianity to do away with vice and suffering1 with poverty and crime4 ,we know that the rich care but little for the poor4 ,no matter how religious the rich may be1 the sufferings of their fellows have but little effect upon them4 ,we are also beginning to see that what is called charity will never redeem this world4 ,the poor man willing to work1 eager to maintain his independence1 knows that there is something higher than charity--that is to say1 justice4 ,he finds that many years before he was born his country was divided out between certain successful robbers1 flatterers1 cringers and crawlers1 and that in consequence of such division not only he himself1 but a large majority of his fellow-men are tenants1 renters1 occupying the surface of the earth only at the pleasure of others4 ,he finds1 too1 that these people who have done nothing and who do nothing1 have everything1 and that those who do everything have but little4 ,he finds that idleness has the money and that the toilers are compelled to bow to the idlers4 ,he finds also that the young men of genius are bribed by social distinctions --unconsciously it may be--but still bribed in a thousand ways4 ,he finds that the church is a kind of waste-basket into which are thrown the younger sons of titled idleness4 ,question4 ,do you consider that society in general has been made better by religious influences8 ,answer4 ,society is corrupted because the laurels1 the titles1 are in the keeping and within the gift of the corrupters4 ,christianity is not an enemy of this system--it is in harmony with it4 ,christianity reveals to us a universe presided over by an infinite autocrat--a universe without republicanism1 without democracy--a universe where all power comes from one and the same source1 and where everyone using authority is accountable1 not to the people1 but to this supposed source of authority4 ,kings reign by divine right4 ,priests are ordained in a divinely appointed way--they do not get their office from man4 ,man is their servant1 not their master4 ,in the story of ,robert ,elsmere all there is of ,christianity is left except the miraculous4 ,theism remains1 and the idea of a protecting ,providence is left1 together with a belief in the immeasurable superiority of ,jesus ,christ4 ,that is to say1 the miracles are discarded for lack of evidence1 and only for lack of evidence2 not on the ground that they are impossible1 not on the ground that they impeach and deny the integrity of cause and effect1 not on the ground that they contradict the self-evident proposition that an effect must have an efficient cause1 but like the ,scotch verdict1 not proven4 ,it is an effort to save and keep in repair the dungeons of the ,inquisition for the sake of the beauty of the vines that have overrun them4 ,many people imagine that falsehoods may become respectable on account of age1 that a certain reverence goes with antiquity1 and that if a mistake is covered with the moss of sentiment it is altogether more credible than a parvenu fact4 ,they endeavor to introduce the idea of aristocracy into the world of thought1 believing1 and honestly believing1 that a falsehood long believed is far superior to a truth that is generally denied4 ,question4 ,if ,robert ,elsmere's views were commonly adopted what would be the effect8 ,answer4 ,the new religion of ,elsmere is1 after all1 only a system of outdoor relief1 an effort to get successful piracy to give up a larger per cent4 for the relief of its victims4 ,the abolition of the system is not dreamed of4 ,a civilized minority could not by any possibility be happy while a majority of the world were miserable4 ,a civilized majority could not be happy while a minority were miserable4 ,as a matter of fact1 a civilized world could not be happy while one man was really miserable4 ,at the foundation of civilization is justice--that is to say1 the giving of an equal opportunity to all the children of men4 ,secondly1 there can be no civilization in the highest sense until sympathy becomes universal4 ,we must have a new definition for success4 ,we must have new ideals4 ,the man who succeeds in amassing wealth1 who gathers money for himself1 is not a success4 ,it is an exceedingly low ambition to be rich to excite the envy of others1 or for the sake of the vulgar power it gives to triumph over others4 ,such men are failures4 ,so the man who wins fame1 position1 power1 and wins these for the sake of himself1 and wields this power not for the elevation of his fellow-men1 but simply to control1 is a miserable failure4 ,he may dispense thousands of millions in charity1 and his charity may be prompted by the meanest part of his nature--using it simply as a bait to catch more fish and to prevent the rising tide of indignation that might overwhelm him4 ,men who steal millions and then give a small percentage to the ,lord to gain the praise of the clergy and to bring the salvation of their souls within the possibilities of imagination1 are all failures4 ,robert ,elsmere gains our affection and our applause to the extent that he gives up what are known as orthodox views1 and his wife ,catherine retains our respect in the proportion that she lives the doctrine that ,elsmere preaches4 ,by doing what she believes to be right1 she gains our forgiveness for her creed4 ,one is astonished that she can be as good as she is1 believing as she does4 ,the utmost stretch of our intellectual charity is to allow the old wine to be put in a new bottle1 and yet she regrets the absence of the old bottle--she really believes that the bottle is the important thing--that the wine is but a secondary consideration4 ,she misses the label1 and not having perfect confidence in her own taste1 she does not feel quite sure that the wine is genuine4 ,question4 ,what1 on the whole1 is your judgment of the book8 ,answer4 ,i think the book conservative4 ,it is an effort to save something--a few shreds and patches and ravelings--from the wreck4 ,theism is difficult to maintain4 ,why should we expect an infinite ,being to do better in another world than he has done and is doing in this8 ,if he allows the innocent to suffer here1 why not there8 ,if he allows rascality to succeed in this world1 why not in the next8 ,to believe in ,god and to deny his personality is an exceedingly vague foundation for a consolation4 ,if you insist on his personality and power1 then it is impossible to account for what happens4 ,why should an infinite ,god allow some of his children to enslave others8 ,why should he allow a child of his to burn another child of his1 under the impression that such a sacrifice was pleasing to him8 ,unitarianism lacks the motive power4 ,orthodox people who insist that nearly everybody is going to hell1 and that it is their duty to do what little they can to save their souls1 have what you might call a spur to action4 ,we can imagine a philanthropic man engaged in the business of throwing ropes to persons about to go over the falls of ,niagara1 but we can hardly think of his carrying on the business after being convinced that there are no falls1 or that people go over them in perfect safety4 ,in this country the question has come up whether all the heathen are bound to be damned unless they believe in the gospel4 ,many admit that the heathen will be saved if they are good people1 and that they will not be damned for not believing something that they never heard4 ,the really orthodox people--that is to say1 the missionaries--instantly see that this doctrine destroys their business4 ,they take the ground that there is but one way to be saved--you must believe on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ--and they are willing to admit1 and cheerfully to admit1 that the heathen for many generations have gone in an unbroken column down to eternal wrath4 ,and they not only admit this1 but insist upon it1 to the end that subscriptions may not cease4 ,with them salary and salvation are convertible terms4 ,the tone of this book is not of the highest4 ,too much stress is laid upon social advantages--too much respect for fashionable folly and for ancient absurdity4 ,it is hard for me to appreciate the feelings of one who thinks it difficult to give up the consolations of the gospel4 ,what are the consolations of the ,church of ,england8 ,it is a religion imposed upon the people by authority4 ,it is the gospel at the mouth of a cannon1 at the point of a bayonet1 enforced by all authority1 from the beadle to the ,queen4 ,it is a parasite living upon tithes--these tithes being collected by the army and navy4 ,it produces nothing--is simply a beggar--or rather an aggregation of beggars4 ,it teaches nothing of importance4 ,it discovers nothing4 ,it is under obligation not to investigate4 ,it has agreed to remain stationary not only1 but to resist all innovation4 ,according to the creed of this church1 a very large proportion of the human race is destined to suffer eternal pain4 ,this does not interfere with the quiet1 with the serenity and repose of the average clergyman4 ,they put on their gowns1 they read the service1 they repeat the creed and feel that their duty has been done4 ,how any one can feel that he is giving up something of value when he finds that the ,episcopal creed is untrue is beyond my imagination4 ,i should think that every good man and woman would overflow with joy1 that every heart would burst into countless blossoms the moment the falsity of the ,episcopal creed was established4 ,christianity is the most heartless of all religions--the most unforgiving1 the most revengeful4 ,according to the ,episcopalian belief1 ,god becomes the eternal prosecutor of his own children4 ,i know of no creed believed by any tribe1 not excepting the tribes where cannibalism is practiced1 that is more heartless1 more inhuman than this4 ,to find that the creed is false is like being roused from a frightful dream1 in which hundreds of serpents are coiled about you1 in which their eyes1 gleaming with hatred1 are fixed on you1 and finding the world bathed in sunshine and the songs of birds in your ears and those you love about you4 --,new ,york ,world1 ,november #ah1 #ahhh4 ,,working ,,girls4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the work undertaken by the ,world in behalf of the city slave girl8 ,answer4 ,i know of nothing better for a great journal to do4 ,the average girl is so helpless1 and the greed of the employer is such1 that unless some newspaper or some person of great influence comes to her assistance1 she is liable not simply to be imposed upon1 but to be made a slave4 ,girls1 as a rule1 are so anxious to please1 so willing to work1 that they bear almost every hardship without complaint4 ,nothing is more terrible than to see the rich living on the work of the poor4 ,one can hardly imagine the utter heartlessness of a man who stands between the wholesale manufacturer and the wretched women who make their living--or rather retard their death--by the needle4 ,how a human being can consent to live on this profit1 stolen from poverty1 is beyond my imagination4 ,these men1 when known1 will be regarded as hyenas and jackals4 ,they are like the wild beasts which follow herds of cattle for the purpose of devouring those that are injured or those that have fallen by the wayside from weakness4 ,question4 ,what effect has unlimited immigration on the wages of women8 ,answer4 ,if our country were overpopulated1 the effect of immigration would be to lessen wages1 for the reason that the working people of ,europe are used to lower wages1 and have been in the habit of practicing an economy unknown to us4 ,but this country is not overpopulated4 ,there is plenty of room for several hundred millions more4 ,wages1 however1 are too low in the ,united ,states4 ,the general tendency is to leave the question of labor to what is called the law of supply and demand4 ,my hope is that in time we shall become civilized enough to know that there is a higher law1 or rather a higher meaning in the law of supply and demand1 than is now perceived4 ,year after year what are called the necessaries of life increase4 ,many things now regarded as necessaries were formerly looked upon as luxuries4 ,so1 as man becomes civilized1 he increases what may be called the necessities of his life4 ,when perfectly civilized1 one of the necessities of his life will be that the lives of others shall be of some value to them4 ,a good man is not happy so long as he knows that other good men and women suffer for raiment and for food1 and have no roof but the sky1 no home but the highway4 ,consequently what is called the law of supply and demand will then have a much larger meaning4 ,in nature everything lives upon something else4 ,life feeds upon life4 ,something is lying in wait for something else1 and even the victim is weaving a web or crouching for some other victim1 and the other victim is in the same business--watching for something else4 ,the same is true in the human world--people are living on each other2 the cunning obtain the property of the simple2 wealth picks the pockets of poverty2 success is a highwayman leaping from the hedge4 ,the rich combine1 the poor are unorganized1 without the means to act in concert1 and for that reason become the prey of combinations and trusts4 ,the great questions are3 ,will man ever be sufficiently civilized to be honest8 ,will the time ever come when it can truthfully be said that right is might8 ,the lives of millions of people are not worth living1 because of their ignorance and poverty1 and the lives of millions of others are not worth living1 on account of their wealth and selfishness4 ,the palace without justice1 without charity1 is as terrible as the hovel without food4 ,question4 ,what effect has the woman's suffrage movement had on the breadwinners of the country8 ,answer4 ,i think the women who have been engaged in the struggle for equal rights have done good for women in the direction of obtaining equal wages for equal work4 ,there has also been for many years a tendency among women in our country to become independent --a desire to make their own living--to win their own bread4 ,so many husbands are utterly useless1 or worse1 that many women hardly feel justified in depending entirely on a husband for the future4 ,they feel somewhat safer to know how to do something and earn a little money themselves4 ,if men were what they ought to be1 few women would be allowed to labor--that is to say1 to toil4 ,it should be the ambition of every healthy and intelligent man to take care of1 to support1 to make happy1 some woman4 ,as long as women bear the burdens of the world1 the human race can never attain anything like a splendid civilization4 ,there will be no great generation of men until there has been a great generation of women4 ,for my part1 ,i am glad to hear this question discussed--glad to know that thousands of women take some interest in the fortunes and in the misfortunes of their sisters4 ,the question of wages for women is a thousand times more important than sending missionaries to ,china or to ,india4 ,there is plenty for missionaries to do here4 ,and by missionaries ,i do not mean gentlemen and ladies who distribute tracts or quote ,scripture to people out of work4 ,if we are to better the condition of men and women we must change their surroundings4 ,the tenement house breeds a moral pestilence4 ,there can be in these houses no home1 no fireside1 no family1 for the reason that there is no privacy1 no walls between them and the rest of the world4 ,there is no sacredness1 no feeling1 this is ours4 ,question4 ,might not the rich do much8 ,answer4 ,it would be hard to overestimate the good that might be done by the millionaires if they would turn their attention to sending thousands and thousands into the country or to building them homes miles from the city1 where they could have something like privacy1 where the family relations could be kept with some sacredness4 ,think of the homes in which thousands and thousands of young girls are reared in our large cities4 ,think of what they see and what they hear2 of what they come in contact with4 ,how is it possible for the virtues to grow in the damp and darkened basements8 ,can we expect that love and chastity and all that is sweet and gentle will be produced in these surroundings1 in cellars and garrets1 in poverty and dirt8 ,the surroundings must be changed4 ,question4 ,are the fathers and brothers blameless who allow young girls to make coats1 cloaks and vests in an atmosphere poisoned by the ignorant and low-bred8 ,answer4 ,the same causes now brutalizing girls brutalize their fathers and brothers1 and the same causes brutalize the ignorant and low-lived that poison the air in which these girls are made to work4 ,it is hard to pick out one man and say that he is to blame1 or one woman and say that the fault is hers4 ,we must go back of all this4 ,in my opinion1 society raises its own failures1 its own criminals1 its own wretches of every sort and kind4 ,great pains are taken to raise these crops4 ,the seeds1 it may be1 were sown thousands of years ago1 but they were sown1 and the present is the necessary child of all the past4 ,if the future is to differ from the present1 the seeds must now be sown4 ,it is not simply a question of charity1 or a question of good nature1 or a question of what we call justice--it is a question of intelligence4 ,in the first place1 ,i suppose that it is the duty of every human being to support himself--first1 that he may not become a burden upon others1 and second1 that he may help others4 ,i think all people should be taught never1 under any circumstances1 if by any possibility they can avoid it1 to become a burden4 ,every one should be taught the nobility of labor1 the heroism and splendor of honest effort4 ,as long as it is considered disgraceful to labor1 or aristocratic not to labor1 the world will be filled with idleness and crime1 and with every possible moral deformity4 ,question4 ,has the public school system anything to do with the army of pupils who1 after six years of study1 willingly accept the injustice and hardship imposed by capital8 ,answer4 ,the great trouble with the public school is that many things are taught that are of no immediate use4 ,i believe in manual training schools4 ,i believe in the kindergarten system4 ,every person ought to be taught how to do something--ought to be taught the use of their hands4 ,they should endeavor to put in palpable form the ideas that they gain4 ,such an education gives them a confidence in themselves1 a confidence in the future--gives them a spirit and feeling of independence that they do not now have4 ,men go through college studying for many years1 and when graduated have not the slightest conception of how to make a living in any department of human effort4 ,thousands of them are to-day doing manual labor and doing it very poorly1 whereas1 if they had been taught the use of tools1 the use of their hands1 they would derive a certain pleasure from their work4 ,it is splendid to do anything well4 ,one can be just as poetic working with iron and wood as working with words and colors4 ,question4 ,what ought to be done1 or what is to be the end8 ,answer4 ,the great thing is for the people to know the facts4 ,there are thousands and millions of splendid and sympathetic people who would willingly help1 if they only knew2 but they go through the world in such a way that they know but little of it4 ,they go to their place of business2 they stay in their offices for a few hours2 they go home2 they spend the evening there or at a club2 they come in contact with the well-to-do1 with the successful1 with the satisfied1 and they know nothing of the thousands and millions on every side4 ,they have not the least idea how the world lives1 how it works1 how it suffers4 ,they read1 of course1 now and then1 some paragraph in which the misfortune of some wretch is set forth1 but the wretch is a kind of steel engraving1 an unreal shadow1 a something utterly unlike themselves4 ,the real facts should be brought home1 the sympathies of men awakened1 and awakened to such a degree that they will go and see how these people live1 see how they work1 see how they suffer4 ,question4 ,does exposure do any good8 ,answer4 ,i hope that ,the ,world will keep on4 ,i hope that it will express every horror that it can1 connected with the robbery of poor and helpless girls1 and ,i hope that it will publish the names of all the robbers it can find1 and the wretches who oppress the poor and who live upon the misfortunes of women4 ,the crosses of this world are mostly born by wives1 by mothers and by daughters4 ,their brows are pierced by thorns4 ,they shed the bitterest tears4 ,they live and suffer and die for others4 ,it is almost enough to make one insane to think of what woman1 in the years of savagery and civilization1 has suffered4 ,think of the anxiety and agony of motherhood4 ,maternity is the most pathetic fact in the universe4 ,think how helpless girls are4 ,think of the thorns in the paths they walk--of the trials1 the temptations1 the want1 the misfortune1 the dangers and anxieties that fill their days and nights4 ,every true man will sympathize with woman1 and will do all in his power to lighten her burdens and increase the sunshine of her life4 ,question4 ,is there any remedy8 ,answer4 ,i have always wondered that the great corporations have made no provisions for their old and worn out employees4 ,it seems to me that not only great railway companies1 but great manufacturing corporations1 ought to provide for their workmen4 ,many of them are worn out1 unable longer to work1 and they are thrown aside like old clothes4 ,they find their way to the poorhouses or die in tenements by the roadside4 ,this seems almost infinitely heartless4 ,men of great wealth1 engaged in manufacturing1 instead of giving five hundred thousand dollars for a library1 or a million dollars for a college1 ought to put this money aside1 invest it in bonds of the ,government1 and the interest ought to be used in taking care of the old1 of the helpless1 of those who meet with accidents in their work4 ,under our laws1 if an employee is caught in a wheel or in a band1 and his arm or leg is torn off1 he is left to the charity of the community1 whereas the profits of the business ought to support him in his old age4 ,if employees had this feeling--that they were not simply working for that day1 not simply working while they have health and strength1 but laying aside a little sunshine for the winter of age--if they only felt that they1 by their labor1 were creating a fireside in front of which their age and helplessness could sit1 the feeling between employed and employers would be a thousand times better4 ,on the great railways very few people know the number of the injured1 of those who lose their hands or feet1 of those who contract diseases riding on the tops of freight trains in snow and sleet and storm2 and yet1 when these men become old and helpless through accident1 they are left to shift for themselves4 ,the company is immortal1 but the employees become helpless4 ,now1 it seems to me that a certain per cent4 should be laid aside1 so that every brakeman and conductor could feel that he was providing for himself1 as well as for his fellow-workmen1 so that when the dark days came there would be a little light4 ,the men of wealth1 the men who control these great corporations-- these great mills--give millions away in ostentatious charity4 ,they send missionaries to foreign lands4 ,they endow schools and universities and allow the men who earned the surplus to die in want4 ,i believe in no charity that is founded on robbery4 ,i have no admiration for generous highwaymen or extravagant pirates4 ,at the foundation of charity should be justice4 ,let these men whom others have made wealthy give something to their workmen--something to those who created their fortunes4 ,this would be one step in the right direction4 ,do not let it be regarded as charity--let it be regarded as justice4 --,new ,york ,world1 ,december #b1 #ahhh4 ,,protection ,,for ,,american ,,actors4 ,question4 ,it is reported that you have been retained as counsel for the ,actors' ,order of ,friendship--the ,edwin ,forrest ,lodge of ,new ,york1 and the ,shakespeare ,lodge of ,philadelphia--for the purpose of securing the necessary legislation to protect ,american actors-- is that so8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i have been retained for that purpose1 and the object is simply that ,american actors may be put upon an equal footing with ,americans engaged in other employments4 ,there is a law now which prevents contractors going abroad and employing mechanics or skilled workmen1 and bringing them to this country to take the places of our citizens4 ,no one objects to the ,english1 ,german and ,french mechanics coming with their wives and children to this country and making their homes here4 ,our ports are open1 and have been since the foundation of this ,government4 ,wages are somewhat higher in this country than in any other1 and the man who really settles here1 who becomes1 or intends to become an ,american citizen1 will demand ,american wages4 ,but if a manufacturer goes to ,europe1 he can make a contract there and bring hundreds and thousands of mechanics to this country who will work for less wages than the ,american1 and a law was passed to prevent the ,american manufacturer1 who was protected by a tariff1 from burning the laborer's candle at both ends4 ,that is to say1 we do not wish to give him the ,american price1 by means of a tariff1 and then allow him to go to ,europe and import his labor at the ,european price4 ,in the law1 actors were excepted1 and we now find the managers are bringing entire companies from the old county1 making contracts with them there1 and getting them at much lower prices than they would have had to pay for ,american actors4 ,no one objects to a foreign actor coming here for employment1 but we do not want an ,american manager to go there1 and employ him to act here4 ,no one objects to the importation of a star4 ,we wish to see and hear the best actors in the world4 ,but the rest of the company--the support--should be engaged in the ,united ,states1 if the star speaks ,english4 ,i see that it is contended over in ,england1 that ,english actors are monopolizing the ,american stage because they speak ,english1 while the average ,american actor does not4 ,the real reason is that the ,english actor works for less money--he is the cheaper article4 ,certainly no one will accuse the average ,english actor of speaking ,english4 ,the hemming and hawing1 the aristocratic stutter1 the dropping of h's and picking them up at the wrong time1 have never been popular in the ,united ,states1 except by way of caricature4 ,nothing is more absurd than to take the ground that the ,english actors are superior to the ,american4 ,i know of no ,english actor who can for a moment be compared with ,joseph ,jefferson1 or with ,edwin ,booth1 or with ,lawrence ,barrett1 or with ,denman ,thompson1 and ,i could easily name others4 ,if ,english actors are so much better than ,american1 how is it that an ,american star is supported by the ,english8 ,mary ,anderson is certainly an ,american actress1 and she is supported by ,english actors4 ,is it possible that the superior support the inferior8 ,i do not believe that ,england has her equal as an actress4 ,her ,hermione is wonderful1 and the appeal to ,apollo sublime4 ,in ,perdita she takes the winds of ,march with beauty4 ,where is an actress on the ,english stage the superior of ,julia ,marlowe in genius1 in originality1 in naturalness8 ,is there any better ,mrs4 ,malaprop than ,mrs4 ,drew1 and better ,sir ,anthony than ,john ,gilbert8 ,no one denies that the ,english actors and actresses are great4 ,no one will deny that the plays of ,shakespeare are the greatest that have been produced1 and no one wishes in any way to belittle the genius of the ,english people4 ,in this country the average person speaks fairly good ,english1 and you will find substantially the same ,english spoken in most of the country2 whereas in ,england there is a different dialect in almost every county1 and most of the ,english people speak the language as if was not their native tongue4 ,i think it will be admitted that the ,english write a good deal better than they speak1 and that their pronunciation is not altogether perfect4 ,these things1 however1 are not worth speaking of4 ,there is no absolute standard4 ,they speak in the way that is natural to them1 and we in the way that is natural to us4 ,this difference furnishes no foundation for a claim of general superiority4 ,the ,english actors are not brought here on account of their excellence1 but on account of their cheapness4 ,it requires no great ability to play the minor parts1 or the leading roles in some plays1 for that matter4 ,and yet acting is a business1 a profession1 a means of getting bread4 ,we protect our mechanics and makers of locomotives and of all other articles4 ,why should we not protect1 by the same means1 the actor8 ,you may say that we can get along without actors4 ,so we can get along without painters1 without sculptors and without poets4 ,but a nation that gets along without these people of genius amounts to but little4 ,we can do without music1 without players and without composers2 but when we take art and poetry and music and the theatre out of the world1 it becomes an exceedingly dull place4 ,actors are protected and cared for in proportion that people are civilized4 ,if the people are intelligent1 educated1 and have imaginations1 they enjoy the world of the stage1 the creations of poets1 and they are thrilled by great music1 and1 as a consequence1 respect the dramatist1 the actor and the musician4 ,question4 ,it is claimed that an amendment to the law1 such as is desired1 will interfere with the growth of art8 ,answer4 ,no one is endeavoring to keep stars from this country4 ,if they have ,american support1 and the stars really know anything1 the ,american actors will get the benefit4 ,if they bring their support with them1 the ,american actor is not particularly benefitted1 and the star1 when the season is over1 takes his art and his money with him4 ,managers who insist on employing foreign support are not sacrificing anything for art4 ,their object is to make money4 ,they care nothing for the ,american actor--nothing for the ,american drama4 ,they look for the receipts4 ,it is the sheerest cant to pretend that they are endeavoring to protect art4 ,on the #bfth of ,february1 #ahhe1 a law was passed making it unlawful for any person1 company1 partnership or corporation1 in any manner whatsoever1 to prepay the transportation1 or in any way assist or encourage the importation or emigration of any alien or aliens into the ,united ,states1 under contract or agreement1 parol or special1 previous to the importation or emigration of such aliens to perform labor or services of any kind the ,united ,states4 ,by this act it was provided that its provisions should not apply to professional actors1 artists1 lecturers or singers1 in regard to persons employed strictly as personal or domestic servants4 ,the object now in view is so to amend the law that its provision shall apply to all actors except stars4 ,question4 ,in this connection there has been so much said about the art of acting--what is your idea as to that art8 ,answer4 ,above all things in acting1 there must be proportion4 ,there are no miracles in art or nature4 ,all that is done--every inflection and gesture--must be in perfect harmony with the circumstances4 ,sensationalism is based on deformity1 and bears the same relation to proportion that caricature does to likeness4 ,the stream that flows even with its banks1 making the meadows green1 delights us ever2 the one that overflows surprises for a moment4 ,but we do not want a succession of floods4 ,in acting there must be natural growth1 not sudden climax4 ,the atmosphere of the situation1 the relation sustained to others1 should produce the emotions4 ,nothing should be strained4 ,beneath domes there should be buildings1 and buildings should have foundations4 ,there must be growth4 ,there should be the bud1 the leaf1 the flower1 in natural sequence4 ,there must be no leap from naked branches to the perfect fruit4 ,most actors depend on climax--they save themselves for the supreme explosion4 ,the scene opens with a slow match and ends when the spark reaches the dynamite4 ,so1 most authors fill the first act with contradictions and the last with explanations4 ,plots and counter-plots1 violence and vehemence1 perfect saints and perfect villains--that is to say1 monsters1 impelled by improbable motives1 meet upon the stage1 where they are pushed and pulled for the sake of the situation1 and where everything is so managed that the fire reaches the powder and the explosion is the climax4 ,there is neither time1 nor climate1 nor soil1 in which the emotions and intentions may grow4 ,no land is plowed1 no seed is sowed1 no rain falls1 no light glows--the events are all orphans4 ,no one would enjoy a sudden sunset--we want the clouds of gold that float in the azure sea4 ,no one would enjoy a sudden sunrise--we are in love with the morning star1 with the dawn that modestly heralds the day and draws aside1 with timid hands1 the curtains of the night4 ,in other words1 we want sequence1 proportion1 logic1 beauty4 ,there are several actors in this country who are in perfect accord with nature--who appear to make no effort--whose acting seems to give them joy and rest4 ,we do well what we do easily4 ,it is a great mistake to exhaust yourself1 instead of the subject4 ,all great actors fill the stage because they hold the situation4 ,you see them and nothing else4 ,question4 ,speaking of ,american actors1 ,colonel1 ,i believe you are greatly interested in the playing of ,miss ,marlowe1 and have given your opinion of her as ,parthenia2 what do you think of her ,julia and ,viola8 ,answer4 ,a little while ago ,i saw ,miss ,marlowe as ,julia1 in ,the ,hunchback4 ,we must remember the limitations of the play4 ,nothing can excel the simplicity1 the joyous content of the first scene4 ,nothing could be more natural than the excitement produced by the idea of leaving what you feel to be simple and yet good1 for what you think is magnificent1 brilliant and intoxicating4 ,it is only in youth that we are willing to make this exchange4 ,one does not see so clearly in the morning of life when the sun shines in his eyes4 ,in the afternoon1 when the sun is behind him1 he sees better --he is no longer dazzled4 ,in old age we are not only willing1 but anxious1 to exchange wealth and fame and glory and magnificence1 for simplicity4 ,all the palaces are nothing compared with our little cabin1 and all the flowers of the world are naught to the wild rose that climbs and blossoms by the lowly window of content4 ,happiness dwells in the valleys with the shadows4 ,the moment ,julia is brought in contact with wealth1 she longs for the simple--for the true love of one true man4 ,wealth and station are mockeries4 ,these feelings1 these emotions1 ,miss ,marlowe rendered not only with look and voice and gesture1 but with every pose of her body2 and when assured that her nuptials with the ,earl could be avoided1 the only question in her mind was as to the absolute preservation of her honor--not simply in fact1 but in appearance1 so that even hatred could not see a speck upon the shining shield of her perfect truth4 ,in this scene she was perfect--everything was forgotten except the desire to be absolutely true4 ,so in the scene with ,master ,walter1 when he upbraids her for forgetting that she is about to meet her father1 when excusing her forgetfulness on the ground that he has been to her a father4 ,nothing could exceed the delicacy and tenderness of this passage4 ,every attitude expressed love1 gentleness1 and a devotion even unto death4 ,one felt that there could be no love left for the father she expected to meet--,master ,walter had it all4 ,a greater ,julia was never on the stage--one in whom so much passion mingled with so much purity4 ,miss ,marlowe never o'ersteps the modesty of nature4 ,she maintains proportion4 ,the river of her art flows even with the banks4 ,in ,viola1 we must remember the character--a girl just rescued from the sea--disguised as a boy--employed by the ,duke1 whom she instantly loves--sent as his messenger to woo another for him--,olivia enamored of the messenger--forced to a duel--mistaken for her brother by the ,captain1 and her brother taken for herself by ,olivia--and yet1 in the midst of these complications and disguises1 she remains a pure and perfect girl--these circumstances having no more real effect upon her passionate and subtle self than clouds on stars4 ,when ,malvolio follows and returns the ring the whole truth flashes upon her4 ,she is in love with ,orsino--this she knows4 ,olivia1 she believes1 is in love with her4 ,the edge of the situation1 the dawn of this entanglement1 excites her mirth4 ,in this scene she becomes charming--an impersonation of ,spring4 ,her laughter is as natural and musical as the song of a brook4 ,so1 in the scene with ,olivia in which she cries1 ,make me a willow cabin at your gate6 she is the embodiment of grace1 and her voice is as musical as the words1 and as rich in tone as they are in thought4 ,in the duel with ,sir ,andrew she shows the difference between the delicacy of woman and the cowardice of man4 ,she does the little that she can1 not for her own sake1 but for the sake of her disguise --she feels that she owes something to her clothes4 ,but ,i have said enough about this actress to give you an idea of one who is destined to stand first in her profession4 ,we will now come back to the real question4 ,i am in favor of protecting the ,american actor4 ,i regard the theatre as the civilizer of man4 ,all the arts united upon the stage1 and the genius of the race has been lavished on this mimic world4 --,new ,york ,star1 ,december #bc1 #ahhh4 ,,liberals ,,and ,,liberalism4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the prospects of ,liberalism in this country8 ,answer4 ,the prospects of ,liberalism are precisely the same as the prospects of civilization--that is to say1 of progress4 ,as the people become educated1 they become liberal4 ,bigotry is the provincialism of the mind4 ,men are bigoted who are not acquainted with the thoughts of others4 ,they have been taught one thing1 and have been made to believe that their little mental horizon is the circumference of all knowledge4 ,the bigot lives in an ignorant village1 surrounded by ignorant neighbors4 ,this is the honest bigot4 ,the dishonest bigot may know better1 but he remains a bigot because his salary depends upon it4 ,a bigot is like a country that has had no commerce with any other4 ,he imagines that in his little head there is everything of value4 ,when a man becomes an intellectual explorer1 an intellectual traveler1 he begins to widen1 to grow liberal4 ,he finds that the ideas of others are as good as and often better than his own4 ,the habits and customs of other people throw light on his own1 and by this light he is enabled to discover at least some of his own mistakes4 ,now the world has become acquainted4 ,a few years ago1 a man knew something of the doctrines of his own church4 ,now he knows the creeds of others1 and not only so1 but he has examined to some extent the religions of other nations4 ,he finds in other creeds all the excellencies that are in his own1 and most of the mistakes4 ,in this way he learns that all creeds have been produced by men1 and that their differences have been accounted for by race1 climate1 heredity--that is to say1 by a difference in circumstances4 ,so we now know that the cause of ,liberalism is the cause of civilization4 ,unless the race is to be a failure1 the cause of ,liberalism must succeed4 ,consequently1 ,i have the same faith in that cause that ,i have in the human race4 ,question4 ,where are the most ,liberals1 and in what section of the country is the best work for ,liberalism being done8 ,answer4 ,the most ,liberals are in the most intelligent section of the ,united ,states4 ,where people think the most1 there you will find the most ,liberals2 where people think the least1 you will find the most bigots4 ,bigotry is produced by feeling--,liberalism by thinking--that is to say1 the one is a prejudice1 the other a principle4 ,every geologist1 every astronomer1 every scientist1 is doing a noble work for ,liberalism4 ,every man who finds a fact1 and demonstrates it1 is doing work for the cause4 ,all the literature of our time that is worth reading is on the liberal side4 ,all the fiction that really interests the human mind is with us4 ,no one cares to read the old theological works4 ,essays written by professors of theological colleges are regarded1 even by ,christians1 with a kind of charitable contempt4 ,when any demonstration of science is attacked by a creed1 or a passage of ,scripture1 all the intelligent smile4 ,for these reasons ,i think that the best work for ,liberalism is being done where the best work for science is being done--where the best work for man is being accomplished4 ,every legislator that assists in the repeal of theological laws is doing a great work for ,liberalism4 ,question4 ,in your opinion1 what relation do ,liberalism and ,prohibition bear to each other8 ,answer4 ,i do not think they have anything to do with each other4 ,they have nothing in common except this3 ,the ,prohibitionists1 ,i presume1 are endeavoring to do what they can for temperance2 so all intelligent ,liberals are doing what they can for the cause of temperance4 ,the ,prohibitionist endeavors to accomplish his object by legislation--the ,liberalist by education1 by civilization1 by example1 by persuasion4 ,the method of the ,liberalist is good1 that of the ,prohibitionist chimerical and fanatical4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,liberals should undertake a reform in the marriage and divorce laws and relations8 ,answer4 ,i think that ,liberals should do all in their power to induce people to regard marriage and divorce in a sensible light1 and without the slightest reference to any theological ideas4 ,they should use their influence to the end that marriage shall be considered as a contract--the highest and holiest that men and women can make4 ,and they should also use their influence to have the laws of divorce based on this fundamental idea1--that marriage is a contract4 ,all should be done that can be done by law to uphold the sacredness of this relation4 ,all should be done that can be done to impress upon the minds of all men and all women their duty to discharge all the obligations of the marriage contract faithfully and cheerfully4 ,i do not believe that it is to the interest of the ,state or of the ,nation1 that people should be compelled to live together who hate each other1 or that a woman should be bound to a man who has been false and who refuses to fulfill the contract of marriage4 ,i do not believe that any man should call upon the police1 or upon the creeds1 or upon the church1 to compel his wife to remain under his roof1 or to compel a woman against her will to become the mother of his children4 ,in other words1 ,liberals should endeavor to civilize mankind1 and when men and women are civilized1 the marriage question1 and the divorce question1 will be settled4 ,question4 ,should ,liberals vote on ,liberal issues8 ,answer4 ,i think that1 other things being anywhere near equal1 ,liberals should vote for men who believe in liberty1 men who believe in giving to others the rights they claim for themselves--that is to say1 for civilized men1 for men of some breadth of mind4 ,liberals should do what they can to do away with all the theological absurdities4 ,question4 ,can1 or ought1 the ,liberals and ,spiritualists to unite8 ,answer4 ,all people should unite where they have objects in common4 ,they can vote together1 and act together1 without believing the same on all points4 ,a ,liberal is not necessarily a ,spiritualist1 and a ,spiritualist is not necessarily a ,liberal4 ,if ,spiritualists wish to liberalize the ,government1 certainly ,liberals would be glad of their assistance1 and if ,spiritualists take any step in the direction of freedom1 the ,liberals should stand by them to that extent4 ,question4 ,which is the more dangerous to ,american institutions --the ,national ,reform ,association 7,god-in-the-,constitution party7 or the ,roman ,catholic ,church8 ,answer4 ,the ,association and the ,catholic ,church are dangerous according to their power4 ,the ,catholic ,church has far more power than the ,reform ,association1 and is consequently far more dangerous4 ,the ,god-in-the-,constitution association is weak1 fanatical1 stupid1 and absurd4 ,what ,god are we to have in the ,constitution8 ,whose ,god8 ,if we should agree to-morrow to put ,god in the ,constitution1 the question would then be3 ,which ,god8 ,on that question1 the religious world would fall out4 ,in that direction there is no danger4 ,but the ,roman ,catholic ,church is the enemy of intellectual liberty4 ,it is the enemy of investigation4 ,it is the enemy of free schools4 ,that church always has been1 always will be1 the enemy of freedom4 ,it works in the dark4 ,when in a minority it is humility itself--when in power it is the impersonation of arrogance4 ,in weakness it crawls--in power it stands erect1 and compels its victims to fall upon their faces4 ,the most dangerous institution in this world1 so far as the intellectual liberty of man is concerned1 is the ,roman ,catholic ,church4 ,next to that is the ,protestant ,church4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the ,christian religion and the ,christian ,church8 ,answer4 ,my opinion upon this subject is certainly well known4 ,the ,christian ,church is founded upon miracles--that is to say1 upon impossibilities4 ,of course1 there is a great deal that is good in the creeds of the churches1 and in the sermons delivered by its ministers2 but mixed with this good is much that is evil4 ,my principal objection to orthodox religion is the dogma of eternal pain4 ,nothing can be more infamously absurd4 ,all civilized men should denounce it--all women should regard it with a kind of shuddering abhorrence4 --,secular ,thought1 ,toronto1 ,canada1 #ahhh4 ,,pope ,,leo ,,xiii4 ,question4 ,do you agree with the views of ,pope ,leo ,,xiii4 as expressed in ,the ,herald of last week8 ,answer4 ,i am not personally acquainted with ,leo ,,xiii41 but ,i have not the slightest idea that he loves ,americans or their country4 ,i regard him as an enemy of intellectual liberty4 ,he tells us that where the church is free it will increase1 and ,i say to him that where others are free it will not4 ,the ,catholic ,church has increased in this country by immigration and in no other way4 ,possibly the ,pope is willing to use his power for the good of the whole people1 ,protestants and ,catholics1 and to increase their prosperity and happiness1 because by this he means that he will use his power to make ,catholics out of ,protestants4 ,it is impossible for the ,catholic ,church to be in favor of mental freedom4 ,that church represents absolute authority4 ,its members have no right to reason--no right to ask questions--they are called upon simply to believe and to pay their subscriptions4 ,question4 ,do you agree with the ,pope when he says that the result of efforts which have been made to throw aside ,christianity and live without it can be seen in the present condition of society-- discontent1 disorder1 hatred and profound unhappiness8 ,answer4 ,undoubtedly the people of ,europe who wish to be free are discontented4 ,undoubtedly these efforts to have something like justice done will bring disorder4 ,those in power will hate those who are endeavoring to drive them from their thrones4 ,if the people now1 as formerly1 would bear all burdens cheerfully placed upon their shoulders by church and state--that is to say1 if they were so enslaved mentally that they would not even have sense enough to complain1 then there would be what the ,pope might call peace and happiness--that is to say1 the peace of ignorance1 and the happiness of those who are expecting pay in another world for their agonies endured in this4 ,of course1 the revolutionaries of ,europe are not satisfied with the ,catholic religion2 neither are they satisfied with the ,protestant4 ,both of these religions rest upon authority4 ,both discourage reason4 ,both say ,let him that hath ears to hear1 hear1 but neither say let him that hath brains to think1 think4 ,christianity has been thoroughly tried1 and it is a failure4 ,nearly every church has upheld slavery1 not only of the body1 but of the mind4 ,when ,christian missionaries invade what they call a heathen country1 they are followed in a little while by merchants and traders1 and in a few days afterward by the army4 ,the first real work is to kill the heathen or steal their lands1 or else reduce them to something like slavery4 ,i have no confidence in the reformation of this world by churches4 ,churches for the most part exist1 not for this world1 but for another4 ,they are founded upon the supernatural1 and they say3 ,take no thought for the morrow2 put your trust in your ,heavenly ,father and he will take care of you4 ,on the other hand1 science says3 ,you must take care of yourself1 live for the world in which you happen to be--if there is another1 live for that when you get there4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the plan to better the condition of the workingmen1 by committees headed by bishops of the ,catholic ,church1 in discussing their duties8 ,answer4 ,if the bishops wish to discuss with anybody about duties they had better discuss with the employers1 instead of the employed4 ,this discussion had better take place between the clergy and the capitalist4 ,there is no need of discussing this question with the poor wretches who cannot earn more than enough to keep their souls in their bodies4 ,if the ,catholic ,church has so much power1 and if it represents ,god on earth1 let it turn its attention to softening the hearts of capitalists1 and no longer waste its time in preaching patience to the poor slaves who are now bearing the burdens of the world4 ,question4 ,do you agree with the ,pope that3 ,sound rules of life must be founded on religion8 ,answer4 ,i do not4 ,sound rules of life must be founded on the experience of mankind4 ,in other words1 we must live for this world4 ,why should men throw away hundreds and thousands of millions of dollars in building cathedrals and churches1 and paying the salaries of bishops and priests1 and cardinals and popes1 and get no possible return for all this money except a few guesses about another world --those guesses being stated as facts--when every pope and priest and bishop knows that no one knows the slightest thing on the subject4 ,superstition is the greatest burden borne by the industry of the world4 ,the nations of ,europe to-day all pretend to be ,christian1 yet millions of men are drilled and armed for the purpose of killing other ,christians4 ,each ,christian nation is fortified to prevent other ,christians from devastating their fields4 ,there is already a debt of about twenty-five thousand millions of dollars which has been incurred by ,christian nations1 because each one is afraid of every other1 and yet all say3 ,it is our duty to love our enemies4 ,this world1 in my judgment1 is to be reformed through intelligence --through development of the mind--not by credulity1 but by investigation2 not by faith in the supernatural1 but by faith in the natural4 ,the church has passed the zenith of her power4 ,the clergy must stand aside4 ,scientists must take their places4 ,question4 ,do you agree with the ,pope in attacking the present governments of ,europe and the memories of ,mazzini and ,saffi8 ,answer4 ,i do not4 ,i think ,mazzini was of more use to ,italy than all the popes that ever occupied the chair of ,st4 ,peter--which1 by the way1 was not his chair4 ,i have a thousand times more regard for ,mazzini1 for ,garibaldi1 for ,cavour1 than ,i have for any gentleman who pretends to be the representative of ,god4 ,there is another objection ,i have to the ,pope1 and that is that he was so scandalized when a monument was reared in ,rome to the memory of ,giordano ,bruno4 ,bruno was murdered about two hundred and sixty years ago by the ,catholic ,church1 and such has been the development of the human brain and heart that on the very spot where he was murdered a monument rises to his memory4 ,but the vicar of ,god has remained stationary1 and he regards this mark of honor to one of the greatest and noblest of the human race as an act of blasphemy4 ,the poor old man acts as if ,america had never been discovered--as if the world were still flat--and as if the stars had been made out of little pieces left over from the creation of the world and stuck in the sky simply to beautify the night4 ,but1 after all1 ,i do not blame this ,pope4 ,he is the victim of his surroundings4 ,he was never married4 ,his heart was never softened by wife or children4 ,he was born that way1 and1 to tell you the truth1 he has my sincere sympathy4 ,let him talk about ,america and stay in ,italy4 --,the ,herald1 ,new ,york1 ,april #bb1 #ahij4 ,,the ,,sacredness ,,of ,,the ,,sabbath4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the sacredness of the ,sabbath8 ,answer4 ,i think all days1 all times and all seasons are alike sacred4 ,i think the best day in a man's life is the day that he is truly the happiest4 ,every day in which good is done to humanity is a holy day4 ,if ,i were to make a calendar of sacred days1 ,i would put down the days in which the greatest inventions came to the mind of genius2 the days when scattered tribes became nations2 the days when good laws were passed2 the days when bad ones were repealed2 the days when kings were dethroned1 and the people given their own2 in other words1 every day in which good has been done2 in which men and women have truly fallen in love1 days in which babes were born destined to change the civilization of the world4 ,these are all sacred days2 days in which men have fought for the right1 suffered for the right1 died for the right2 all days in which there were heroic actions for good4 ,the day when slavery was abolished in the ,united ,states is holier than any ,sabbath by reason of divine consecration4 ,of course1 ,i care nothing about the sacredness of the ,sabbath because it was hallowed in the ,old ,testament1 or because of that day ,jehovah is said to have rested from his labors4 ,a space of time cannot be sacred1 any more than a vacuum can be sacred1 and it is rendered sacred by deeds done in it1 and not in and of itself4 ,if we should finally invent some means of traveling by which we could go a thousand miles a day1 a man could escape ,sunday all his life by traveling ,west4 ,he could start ,monday1 and stay ,monday all the time4 ,or1 if he should some time get near the ,north ,pole1 he could walk faster than the earth turns and thus beat ,sunday all the while4 ,question4 ,should not the museums and art galleries be thrown open to the workingmen free on ,sunday8 ,answer4 ,undoubtedly4 ,in all civilized countries this is done1 and ,i believe it would be done in ,new ,york1 only it is said that money has been given on condition that the museums should be kept closed on ,sundays4 ,i have always heard it said that large sums will be withheld by certain old people who have the prospect of dying in the near future if the museums are open on ,sunday4 ,this1 however1 seems to me a very poor and shallow excuse4 ,money should not be received under such conditions4 ,one of the curses of our country has been the giving of gifts to colleges on certain conditions4 ,as1 for instance1 the money given to ,andover by the original founder on the condition that a certain creed be taught1 and other large amounts have been given on a like condition4 ,now1 the result of this is that the theological professor must teach what these donors have indicated1 or go out of the institution2 or --and this last or is generally the trouble--teach what he does not believe1 endeavoring to get around it by giving new meaning to old words4 ,i think the cause of intellectual progress has been much delayed by these conditions put in the wills of supposed benefactors1 so that after they are dead they can rule people who have the habit of being alive4 ,in my opinion1 a corpse is a poor ruler1 and after a man is dead he should keep quiet4 ,of course all that he did will live1 and should be allowed to have its natural effect4 ,if he was a great inventor or discoverer1 or if he uttered great truths1 these became the property of the world2 but he should not endeavor1 after he is dead1 to rule the living by conditions attached to his gifts4 ,all the museums and libraries should be opened1 not only to workingmen1 but to all others4 ,if to see great paintings1 great statues1 wonderful works of art2 if to read the thoughts of the greatest men--if these things tend to the civilization of the race1 then they should be put as nearly as possible within the reach of all4 ,the man who works eight or ten or twelve hours a day has not time during the six days of labor to visit libraries or museums4 ,sunday is his day of leisure1 his day of recreation1 and on that day he should have the privilege1 and he himself should deem it a right to visit all the public libraries and museums1 parks and gardens4 ,in other words1 ,i think the laboring man should have the same rights on ,sundays1 to say the least of it1 that wealthy people have on other days4 ,the man of wealth has leisure4 ,he can attend these places on any day he may desire2 but necessity being the master of the poor man1 ,sunday is his one day for such a purpose4 ,for men of wealth to close the museums and libraries on that day1 shows that they have either a mistaken idea as to the well-being of their fellow-men1 or that they care nothing about the rights of any except the wealthy4 ,personally1 ,i have no sort of patience with the theological snivel and drivel about the sacredness of the ,sabbath4 ,i do not understand why they do not accept the words of their own ,christ1 namely1 that the ,sabbath was made for man1 and not man for the ,sabbath4 ,the hypocrites of ,judea were great sticklers for the ,sabbath1 and the orthodox ,christians of ,new ,york are exactly the same4 ,my own opinion is that a man who has been at work all the week1 in the dust and heat1 can hardly afford to waste his ,sunday in hearing an orthodox sermon--a sermon that gives him the cheerful intelligence that his chances for being damned are largely in the majority4 ,i think it is far better for the workingman to go out with his family in the park1 into the woods1 to some ,german garden1 where he can hear the music of ,wagner1 or even the waltzes of ,strauss1 or to take a boat and go down to the shore of the sea4 ,i think than in summer a few waves of the ocean are far more refreshing then all the orthodox sermons of the world4 ,as a matter of fact1 ,i believe the preachers leave the city in the summer and let the ,devil do his worst4 ,whether it is believed that the ,devil has less power in warm weather1 ,i do not know4 ,but ,i do know that1 as the mercury rises1 the anxiety about souls decreases1 and the hotter ,new ,york becomes1 the cooler hell seems to be4 ,i want the workingman1 no matter what he works at--whether at doctoring people1 or trying law suits1 or running for office--to have a real good time on ,sunday4 ,he1 of course1 must be careful not to interfere with the rights of others4 ,he ought not to play draw-poker on the steps of a church2 neither should he stone a ,chinese funeral1 nor go to any excesses2 but all the week long he should have it in his mind3 ,next ,sunday ,i am going to have a good time4 ,my wife and ,i and the children are going to have a happy time4 ,i am going out with the girl ,i like2 or my young man is going to take me to the picnic4 ,and this thought1 and this hope1 of having a good time on ,sunday--of seeing some great pictures at the ,metropolitan ,art ,gallery--together with a good many bad ones-- will make work easy and lighten the burden on the shoulders of toil4 ,i take a great interest1 too1 in the working women--particularly in the working woman4 ,i think that every workingman should see to it that every working woman has a good time on ,sunday4 ,i am no preacher4 ,all ,i want is that everybody should enjoy himself in a way that he will not and does not interfere with the enjoyment of others4 ,it will not do to say that we cannot trust the people4 ,our ,government is based upon the idea that the people can be trusted1 and those who say that the workingmen cannot be trusted1 do not believe in ,republican or ,democratic institutions4 ,for one1 ,i am perfectly willing to trust the working people of the country4 ,i do1 every day4 ,i trust the engineers on the cars and steamers4 ,i trust the builders of houses4 ,i trust all laboring men every day of my life1 and if the laboring people of the country were not trustworthy--if they were malicious or dishonest--life would not be worth living4 --,the ,journal1 ,new ,york1 ,june #f1 #ahij4 ,,the ,,west ,,and ,,south4 ,question4 ,do you think the ,south will ever equal or surpass the ,west in point of prosperity8 ,answer4 ,i do not4 ,the ,west has better soil and more of the elements of wealth4 ,it is not liable to yellow fever2 its rivers have better banks2 the people have more thrift1 more enterprise1 more political hospitality2 education is more general2 the people are more inventive2 better traders1 and besides all this1 there is no race problem4 ,the ,southern people are what their surroundings made them1 and the influence of slavery has not yet died out4 ,in my judgment the climate of the ,west is superior to that of the ,south4 ,the ,west has good1 cold winters1 and they make people a little more frugal1 prudent and industrious4 ,winters make good homes1 cheerful firesides1 and1 after all1 civilization commences at the hearthstone4 ,the ,south is growing1 and will continue to grow1 but it will never equal the ,west4 ,the ,west is destined to dominate the ,republic4 ,question4 ,do you consider the new ballot-law adapted to the needs of our system of elections8 ,if not1 in what particulars does it require amendment8 ,answer4 ,personally ,i like the brave and open way4 ,the secret ballot lacks courage4 ,i want people to know just how ,i vote4 ,the old viva voce way was manly and looked well4 ,every ,american should be taught that he votes as a sovereign--an emperor--and he should exercise the right in a kingly way4 ,but if we must have the secret ballot1 then let it be secret indeed1 and let the crowd stand back while the king votes4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the service pension movement8 ,answer4 ,i see that there is a great deal of talk here in ,indiana about this service pension movement4 ,it has always seemed to me that the pension fund has been frittered away4 ,of what use is it to give a man two or three dollars a month8 ,if a man is rich why should he have any pension8 ,i think it would be better to give pensions only to the needy1 and then give them enough to support them4 ,if the man was in the army a day or a month1 and was uninjured1 and can make his own living1 or has enough1 why should he have a pension8 ,i believe in giving to the wounded and disabled and poor1 with a liberal hand1 but not to the rich4 ,i know that the nation could not pay the men who fought and suffered4 ,there is not money enough in the world to pay the heroes for what they did and endured --but there is money enough to keep every wounded and diseased soldier from want4 ,there is money enough to fill the lives of those who gave limbs or health for the sake of the ,republic1 with comfort and happiness4 ,i would also like to see the poor soldier taken care of whether he was wounded or not1 but ,i see no propriety in giving to those who do not need4 --,the ,journal1 ,indianapolis1 ,indiana1 ,june #ba1 #ahij4 ,,the ,,westminster ,,creed ,,and ,,other ,,subjects4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the revision of the ,westminster creed8 ,answer4 ,i think that the intelligence and morality of the age demand the revision4 ,the ,westminster creed is infamous4 ,it makes ,god an infinite monster1 and men the most miserable of beings4 ,that creed has made millions insane4 ,it has furrowed countless cheeks with tears4 ,under its influence the sentiments and sympathies of the heart have withered4 ,this creed was written by the worst of men4 ,the civilized ,presbyterians do not believe it4 ,the intelligent clergyman will not preach it1 and all good men who understand it1 hold it in abhorrence4 ,but the fact is that it is just as good as the creed of any orthodox church4 ,all these creeds must be revised4 ,young ,america will not be consoled by the doctrine of eternal pain4 ,yes1 the creeds must be revised or the churches will be closed4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the influence of the press on religion8 ,answer4 ,if you mean on orthodox religion1 then ,i say the press is helping to destroy it4 ,just to the extent that the press is intelligent and fearless1 it is and must be the enemy of superstition4 ,every fact in the universe is the enemy of every falsehood4 ,the press furnishes food for1 and excites thought4 ,this tends to the destruction of the miraculous and absurd4 ,i regard the press as the friend of progress and consequently the foe of orthodox religion4 ,the old dogmas do not make the people happy4 ,what is called religion is full of fear and grief4 ,the clergy are always talking about dying1 about the grave and eternal pain4 ,they do not add to the sunshine of life4 ,if they could have their way all the birds would stop singing1 the flowers would lose their color and perfume1 and all the owls would sit on dead trees and hoot1 ,broad is the road that leads to death4 ,question4 ,if you should write your last sentence on religious topics what would be your closing8 ,answer4 ,i now in the presence of death affirm and reaffirm the truth of all that ,i have said against the superstitions of the world4 ,i would say at least that much on the subject with my last breath4 ,question4 ,what1 in your opinion1 will be ,browning's position in the literature of the future8 ,answer4 ,lower than at present4 ,mrs4 ,browning was far greater than her husband4 ,he never wrote anything comparable to ,mother and ,poet4 ,browning lacked form1 and that is as great a lack in poetry as it is in sculpture4 ,he was the author of some great lines1 some great thoughts1 but he was obscure1 uneven and was always mixing the poetic with the commonplace4 ,to me he cannot be compared with ,shelley or ,keats1 or with our own ,walt ,whitman4 ,of course poetry cannot be very well discussed4 ,each man knows what he likes1 what touches his heart and what words burst into blossom1 but he cannot judge for others4 ,after one has read ,shakespeare1 ,burns and ,byron1 and ,shelley and ,keats2 after he has read the ,sonnets and the ,daisy and the ,prisoner of ,chillon and the ,skylark and the ,ode to the ,grecian ,urn--the ,flight of the ,duchess seems a little weak4 --,the ,post-,express1 ,rochester1 ,new ,york1 ,june #bc1 #ahij4 ,,shakespeare ,,and ,,bacon4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,ignatius ,donnelly as a literary man irrespective of his ,baconian theory8 ,answer4 ,i know that ,mr4 ,donnelly enjoys the reputation of being a man of decided ability and that he is regarded by many as a great orator4 ,he is known to me through his ,baconian theory1 and in that of course ,i have no confidence4 ,it is nearly as ingenious as absurd4 ,he has spent great time1 and has devoted much curious learning to the subject1 and has at last succeeded in convincing himself that ,shakespeare claimed that which he did not write1 and that ,bacon wrote that which he did not claim4 ,but to me the theory is without the slightest foundation4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,donnelly asks3 ,can you imagine the author of such grand productions retiring to that mud house in ,stratford to live without a single copy of the quarto that has made his name famous8 ,what do you say8 ,answer4 ,yes2 ,i can4 ,shakespeare died in #afaf1 and the quarto was published in #afbc1 seven years after he was dead4 ,under these circumstances ,i think ,shakespeare ought to be excused1 even by those who attack him with the greatest bitterness1 for not having a copy of the book4 ,there is1 however1 another side to his4 ,bacon did not die until long after the quarto was published4 ,did he have a copy8 ,did he mention the copy in his will8 ,did he ever mention the quarto in any letter1 essay1 or in any way8 ,he left a library1 was there a copy of the plays in it8 ,has there ever been found a line from any play or sonnet in his handwriting8 ,bacon left his writings1 his papers1 all in perfect order1 but no plays1 no sonnets1 said nothing about plays--claimed nothing on their behalf4 ,this is the other side4 ,now1 there is still another thing4 ,the edition of #afbc was published by ,shakespeare's friends1 ,heminge and ,condell4 ,they knew him--had been with him for years1 and they collected most of his plays and put them in book form4 ,ben ,jonson wrote a preface1 in which he placed ,shakespeare above all the other poets--declared that he was for all time4 ,the edition of #afbc was gotten up by actors1 by the friends and associates of ,shakespeare1 vouched for by dramatic writers--by those who knew him4 ,this is enough4 ,question4 ,how do you explain the figure3 ,his soul1 like ,mazeppa1 was lashed naked to the wild horse of every fear and love and hate8 ,mr4 ,donnelly does not understand you4 ,answer4 ,it hardly seems necessary to explain a thing as simple and plain as that4 ,men are carried away by some fierce passion-- carried away in spite of themselves as ,mazeppa was carried by the wild horse to which he was lashed4 ,whether the comparison is good or bad it is at least plain4 ,nothing could tempt me to call ,mr4 ,donnelly's veracity in question4 ,he says that he does not understand the sentence and ,i most cheerfully admit that he tells the exact truth4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,donnelly says that you said3 ,where there is genius1 education seems almost unnecessary1 and he denounces your doctrine as the most abominable doctrine ever taught4 ,what have you to say to that8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 ,i never made the remark4 ,in the next place1 it may be well enough to ask what education is4 ,much is taught in colleges that is of no earthly use2 much is taught that is hurtful4 ,there are thousands of educated men who never graduated from any college or university4 ,every observant1 thoughtful man is educating himself as long as he lives4 ,men are better then books4 ,observation is a great teacher4 ,a man of talent learns slowly4 ,he does not readily see the necessary relation that one fact bears to another4 ,a man of genius1 learning one fact1 instantly sees hundreds of others4 ,it is not necessary for such a man to attend college4 ,the world is his university4 ,every man he meets is a book--every woman a volume every fact a torch--and so without the aid of the so-called schools he rises to the very top4 ,shakespeare was such a man4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,donnelly says that3 ,the biggest myth ever on earth was ,shakespeare1 and that if ,francis ,bacon had said to the people1 ,i1 ,francis ,bacon1 a gentleman of gentlemen1 have been taking in secret my share of the coppers and shillings taken at the door of those low playhouses1 he would have been ruined4 ,if he had put the plays forth simply as poetry it would have ruined his legal reputation4 ,what do you think of this8 ,answer4 ,i hardly think that ,shakespeare was a myth4 ,he was certainly born1 married1 lived in ,london1 belonged to a company of actors2 went back to ,stratford1 where he had a family1 and died4 ,all these things do not as a rule happen to myths4 ,in addition to this1 those who knew him believed him to be the author of the plays4 ,bacon's friends never suspected him4 ,i do not think it would have hurt ,bacon to have admitted that he wrote ,lear and ,othello1 and that he was getting coppers and shillings to which he was justly entitled4 ,certainly not as much as for him to have written this1 which if fact1 though not in exact form1 he did write3 ,i1 ,francis ,bacon1 a gentleman of gentlemen1 have been taking coppers and shillings to which ,i was not entitled--but which ,i received as bribes while sitting as a judge4 ,he has been excused for two reasons4 ,first1 because his salary was small1 and1 second1 because it was the custom for judges to receive presents4 ,bacon was a lawyer4 ,he was charged with corruption--with having taken bribes1 with having sold his decisions4 ,he knew what the custom was and knew how small his salary was4 ,but he did not plead the custom in his defense4 ,he did not mention the smallness of the salary4 ,he confessed that he was guilty--as charged4 ,his confession was deemed too general and he was called upon by the ,lords to make a specific confession4 ,this he did4 ,he specified the cases in which he had received the money and told how much1 and begged for mercy4 ,he did not make his confession1 as ,mr4 ,donnelly is reported to have said1 to get his fine remitted4 ,the confession was made before the fine was imposed4 ,neither do ,i think that the theatre in which the plays of ,shakespeare were represented could or should be called a low play house4 ,the fact that ,othello1 ,lear1 ,hamlet1 ,julius ,caesar1 and the other great dramas were first played in that playhouse made it the greatest building in the world4 ,the gods themselves should have occupied seats in that theatre1 where for the first time the greatest productions of the human mind were put upon the stage4 --,the ,tribune1 ,minneapolis1 ,minn41 ,may #ca1 #ahia4 ,,growing ,,old ,,gracefully1 ,,and ,,presbyterianism4 ,question4 ,how have you acquired the art of growing old gracefully8 ,answer4 ,it is very hard to live a great while without getting old1 and it is hardly worth while to die just to keep young4 ,it is claimed that people with certain incomes live longer than those who have to earn their bread4 ,but the income people have a stupid kind of life1 and though they may hang on a good many years1 they can hardly be said to do much real living4 ,the best you can say is1 not that they lived so many years1 but that it took them so many years to die4 ,some people imagine that regular habits prolong life1 but that depends somewhat on the habits4 ,only the other day ,i read an article written by a physician1 in which regular habits --good ones1 were declared to be quite dangerous4 ,where life is perfectly regular1 all the wear and tear comes on the same nerves--every blow falls on the same place4 ,variety1 even in a bad direction1 is a great relief4 ,but living long has nothing to do with getting old gracefully4 ,good nature is a great enemy of wrinkles1 and cheerfulness helps the complexion4 ,if we could only keep from being annoyed at little things1 it would add to the luxury of living4 ,great sorrows are few1 and after all do not affect us as much as the many irritating1 almost nothings that attack from every side4 ,the traveler is bothered more with dust than mountains4 ,it is a great thing to have an object in life-- something to work for and think for4 ,if a man thinks only about himself1 his own comfort1 his own importance1 he will not grow old gracefully4 ,more and more his spirit1 small and mean1 will leave its impress on his face1 and especially in his eyes4 ,you look at him and feel that there is no jewel in the casket2 that a shriveled soul is living in a tumble-down house4 ,the body gets its grace from the mind4 ,i suppose that we are all more or less responsible for our looks4 ,perhaps the thinker of great thoughts1 the doer of noble deeds1 moulds his features in harmony with his life4 ,probably the best medicine1 the greatest beautifier in the world1 is to make somebody else happy4 ,i have noticed that good mothers have faces as serene as a cloudless day in ,june1 and the older the serener4 ,it is a great thing to know the relative importance of things1 and those who do1 get the most out of life4 ,those who take an interest in what they see1 and keep their minds busy are always young4 ,the other day ,i met a blacksmith who has given much attention to geology and fossil remains4 ,he told me how happy he was in his excursions4 ,he was nearly seventy years old1 and yet he had the enthusiasm of a boy4 ,he said he had some very fine specimens1 but1 said he1 nearly every night ,i dream of finding perfect ones4 ,that man will keep young as long as he lives4 ,as long as a man lives he should study4 ,death alone has the right to dismiss the school4 ,no man can get too much knowledge4 ,in that1 he can have all the avarice he wants1 but he can get too much property4 ,if the business men would stop when they got enough1 they might have a chance to grow old gracefully4 ,but the most of them go on and on1 until1 like the old stage horse1 stiff and lame1 they drop dead in the road4 ,the intelligent1 the kind1 the reasonably contented1 the courageous1 the self-poised1 grow old gracefully4 ,question4 ,are not the restraints to free religious thought being worn away1 as the world grows older1 and will not the recent attacks of the religious press and pulpit upon the unorthodoxy of ,dr4 ,briggs1 ,rev4 ,r4 ,heber ,newton and the prospective ,episcopal bishop of ,massachusetts1 ,dr4 ,phillips ,brooks1 and others1 have a tendency still further to extend this freedom8 ,answer4 ,of course the world is growing somewhat wiser--getting more sense day by day4 ,it is amazing to me that any human being or beings ever wrote the ,presbyterian creed4 ,nothing can be more absurd--more barbaric than that creed4 ,it makes man the sport of an infinite monster1 and yet good people1 men and women of ability1 who have gained eminence in almost every department of human effort1 stand by this creed as if it were filled with wisdom and goodness4 ,they really think that a good ,god damns his poor ignorant children just for his own glory1 and that he sends people to perdition1 not for any evil in them1 but to the praise of his glorious justice4 ,dr4 ,briggs has been wicked enough to doubt this phase of ,god's goodness1 and ,dr4 ,bridgman was heartless enough to drop a tear in hell4 ,of course they have no idea of what justice really is4 ,the ,presbyterian ,general ,assembly that has just adjourned stood by ,calvinism4 ,the ,five ,points are as sharp as ever4 ,the members of that assembly--most of them--find all their happiness in the creed4 ,they need no other amusement4 ,if they feel blue they read about total depravity--and cheer up4 ,in moments of great sorrow they think of the tale of non-elect infants1 and their hearts overflow with a kind of joy4 ,they cannot imagine why people wish to attend the theatre when they can read the ,confession of ,faith1 or why they should feel like dancing after they do read it4 ,it is very sad to think of the young men and women who have been eternally ruined by witnessing the plays of ,shakespeare1 and it is also sad to think of the young people1 foolish enough to be happy1 keeping time to the pulse of music1 waltzing to hell in loving pairs--all for the glory of ,god1 and to the praise of his glorious justice4 ,i think1 too1 of the thousands of men and women who1 while listening to the music of ,wagner1 have absolutely forgotten the ,presbyterian creed1 and who for a little while have been as happy as if the creed had never been written4 ,tear down the theatres1 burn the opera houses1 break all musical instruments1 and then let us go to church4 ,i am not at all surprised that the ,general ,assembly took up this progressive euchre matter4 ,the word progressive is always obnoxious to the ministers4 ,euchre under another name might go4 ,of course1 progressive euchre is a kind of gambling4 ,i knew a young man1 or rather heard of him1 who won at progressive euchre a silver spoon4 ,at first this looks like nothing1 almost innocent1 and yet that spoon1 gotten for nothing1 sowed the seed of gambling in that young man's brain4 ,he became infatuated with euchre1 then with cards in general1 then with draw-poker in particular1--then into ,wall ,street4 ,he is now a total wreck1 and has the impudence to say that is was all pre-ordained4 ,think of the thousands and millions that are being demoralized by games of chance1 by marbles --when they play for keeps--by billiards and croquet1 by fox and geese1 authors1 halma1 tiddledywinks and pigs in clover4 ,in all these miserable games1 is the infamous element of chance--the raw material of gambling4 ,probably none of these games could be played exclusively for the glory of ,god4 ,i agree with the ,presbyterian ,general ,assembly1 if the creed is true1 why should anyone try to amuse himself8 ,if there is a hell1 and all of us are going there1 there should never be another smile on the human face4 ,we should spend our days in sighs1 our nights in tears4 ,the world should go insane4 ,we find strange combinations--good men with bad creeds1 and bad men with good ones--and so the great world stumbles along4 --,the ,blade1 ,toledo1 ,ohio1 ,june #d1 #ahia4 ,,creeds4 ,there is a natural desire on the part of every intelligent human being to harmonize his information--to make his theories agree--in other words1 to make what he knows1 or thinks he knows1 in one department1 agree and harmonize with what he knows1 or thinks he knows1 in every other department of human knowledge4 ,the human race has not advanced in line1 neither has it advanced in all departments with the same rapidity4 ,it is with the race as it is with an individual4 ,a man may turn his entire attention to some one subject--as1 for instance1 to geology--and neglect other sciences4 ,he may be a good geologist1 but an exceedingly poor astronomer2 or he may know nothing of politics or of political economy4 ,so he may be a successful statesman and know nothing of theology4 ,but if a man1 successful in one direction1 takes up some other question1 he is bound to use the knowledge he has on one subject as a kind of standard to measure what he is told on some other subject4 ,if he is a chemist1 it will be natural for him1 when studying some other question1 to use what he knows in chemistry2 that is to say1 he will expect to find cause and effect everywhere --succession and resemblance4 ,he will say3 ,it must be in all other sciences as in chemistry--there must be no chance4 ,the elements have no caprice4 ,iron is always the same4 ,gold does not change4 ,prussic acid is always poison--it has no freaks4 ,so he will reason as to all facts in nature4 ,he will be a believer in the atomic integrity of all matter1 in the persistence of gravitation4 ,being so trained1 and so convinced1 his tendency will be to weigh what is called new information in the same scales that he has been using4 ,now1 for the application of this4 ,progress in religion is the slowest1 because man is kept back by sentimentality1 by the efforts of parents1 by old associations4 ,a thousand unseen tendrils are twining about him that he must necessarily break if he advances4 ,in other departments of knowledge inducements are held out and rewards are promised to the one who does succeed--to the one who really does advance--to the one who discovers new facts4 ,but in religion1 instead of rewards being promised1 threats are made4 ,the man is told that he must not advance2 that if he takes a step forward1 it is at the peril of his soul2 that if he thinks and investigates1 he is in danger of exciting the wrath of ,god4 ,consequently religion has been of the slowest growth4 ,now1 in most departments of knowledge1 man has advanced2 and coming back to the original statement--a desire to harmonize all that we know--there is a growing desire on the part of intelligent men to have a religion fit to keep company with the other sciences4 ,our creeds were made in times of ignorance4 ,they suited very well a flat world1 and a ,god who lived in the sky just above us and who used the lightning to destroy his enemies4 ,this ,god was regarded much as a savage regarded the head of his tribe--as one having the right to reward and punish4 ,and this ,god1 being much greater than a chief of the tribe1 could give greater rewards and inflict greater punishments4 ,they knew that the ordinary chief1 or the ordinary king1 punished the slightest offence with death4 ,they also knew that these chiefs and kings tortured their victims as long as the victims could bear the torture4 ,so when they described their ,god1 they gave this ,god power to keep the tortured victim alive forever --because they knew that the earthly chief1 or the earthly king1 would prolong the life of the tortured for the sake of increasing the agonies of the victim4 ,in those savage days they regarded punishment as the only means of protecting society4 ,in consequence of this they built heaven and hell on an earthly plan1 and they put ,god--that is to say the chief1 that is to say the king--on a throne like an earthly king4 ,of course1 these views were all ignorant and barbaric2 but in that blessed day their geology and astronomy were on a par with their theology4 ,there was a harmony in all departments of knowledge1 or rather of ignorance4 ,since that time there has been a great advance made in the idea of government--the old idea being that the right to govern came from ,god to the king1 and from the king to his people4 ,now intelligent people believe that the source of authority has been changed1 and that all just powers of government are derived from the consent of the governed4 ,so there has been a great advance in the philosophy of punishment--in the treatment of criminals4 ,so1 too1 in all the sciences4 ,the earth is no longer flat2 heaven is not immediately above us2 the universe has been infinitely enlarged1 and we have at last found that our earth is but a grain of sand1 a speck on the great shore of the infinite4 ,consequently there is a discrepancy1 a discord1 a contradiction between our theology and the other sciences4 ,men of intelligence feel this4 ,dr4 ,briggs concluded that a perfectly good and intelligent ,god could not have created billions of sentient beings1 knowing that they were to be eternally miserable4 ,no man could do such a thing1 had he the power1 without being infinitely malicious4 ,dr4 ,briggs began to have a little hope for the human race--began to think that maybe ,god is better than the creed describes him4 ,and right here it may be well enough to remark that no one has ever been declared a heretic for thinking ,god bad4 ,heresy has consisted in thinking ,god better than the church said he was4 ,the man who said ,god will damn nearly everybody1 was orthodox4 ,the man who said ,god will save everybody1 was denounced as a blaspheming wretch1 as one who assailed and maligned the character of ,god4 ,i can remember when the ,universalists were denounced as vehemently and maliciously as the ,atheists are to-day4 ,now1 ,dr4 ,briggs is undoubtedly an intelligent man4 ,he knows that nobody on earth knows who wrote the five books of ,moses4 ,he knows that they were not written until hundreds of years after ,moses was dead4 ,he knows that two or more persons were the authors of ,isaiah4 ,he knows that ,david did not write to exceed three or four of the ,psalms4 ,he knows that the ,book of ,job is not a ,jewish book4 ,he knows that the ,songs of ,solomon were not written by ,solomon4 ,he knows that the ,book of ,ecclesiastes was written by a ,freethinker4 ,he also knows that there is not in existence to-day--so far as anybody knows--any of the manuscripts of the ,old or ,new ,testaments4 ,so about the ,new ,testament1 ,dr4 ,briggs knows that nobody lives who has ever seen an original manuscript1 or who ever saw anybody that did see one1 or that claims to have seen one4 ,he knows that nobody knows who wrote ,matthew or ,mark or ,luke or ,john4 ,he knows that ,john did not write ,john1 and that that gospel was not written until long after ,john was dead4 ,he knows that no one knows who wrote the ,hebrews4 ,he also knows that the ,book of ,revelation is an insane production4 ,dr4 ,briggs also knows the way in which these books came to be canonical1 and he knows that the way was no more binding than a resolution passed by a political convention4 ,he also knows that many books were left out that had for centuries equal authority with those that were put in4 ,he also knows that many passages-- and the very passages upon which many churches are founded--are interpolations4 ,he knows that the last chapter of ,mark1 beginning with the sixteenth verse to the end1 is an interpolation2 and he also knows that neither ,matthew nor ,mark nor ,luke ever said one word about the necessity of believing on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ1 or of believing anything--not one word about believing the ,bible or joining the church1 or doing any particular thing in the way of ceremony to insure salvation4 ,he knows that according to ,matthew1 ,god agreed to forgive us when we would forgive others4 ,consequently he knows that there is not one particle of what is called modern theology in ,matthew1 ,mark1 or ,luke4 ,he knows that the trouble commenced in ,john1 and that ,john was not written until probably one hundred and fifty years--possibly two hundred years--after ,christ was dead4 ,so he also knows that the sin against the ,holy ,ghost is an interpolation2 that ,i came not to bring peace but a sword1 if not an interpolation1 is an absolute contradiction4 ,so1 too1 he knows that the promise to forgive in heaven what the disciples should forgive on earth1 is an interpolation2 and that if its not an interpolation1 it is without the slightest sense in fact4 ,knowing these things1 and knowing1 in addition to what ,i have stated1 that there are thirty thousand or forty thousand mistakes in the ,old ,testament1 that there are a great many contradictions and absurdities1 than many of the laws are cruel and infamous1 and could have been made only by a barbarous people1 ,dr4 ,briggs has concluded that1 after all1 the torch that sheds the serenest and divinest light is the human reason1 and that we must investigate the ,bible as we do other books4 ,at least1 ,i suppose he has reached some such conclusion4 ,he may imagine that the pure gold of inspiration still runs through the quartz and porphyry of ignorance and mistake1 and that all we have to do is to extract the shining metal by some process that may be called theological smelting2 and if so ,i have no fault to find4 ,dr4 ,briggs has taken a step in advance--that is to say1 the tree is growing1 and when the tree grows1 the bark splits2 when the new leaves come the old leaves are rotting on the ground4 ,the ,presbyterian creed is a very bad creed4 ,it has been the stumbling-block1 not only of the head1 but of the heart for many generations4 ,i do not know that it is1 in fact1 worse than any other orthodox creed2 but the bad features are stated with an explicitness and emphasized with a candor that render the creed absolutely appalling4 ,it is amazing to me that any man ever wrote it1 or that any set of men ever produced it4 ,it is more amazing to me that any human being ever believed in it4 ,it is still more amazing that any human being ever thought it wicked not to believe it4 ,it is more amazing still1 than all the others combined1 that any human being ever wanted it to be true4 ,this creed is a relic of the ,middle ,ages4 ,it has in it the malice1 the malicious logic1 the total depravity1 the utter heartlessness of ,john ,calvin1 and it gives me great pleasure to say that no ,presbyterian was ever as bad as his creed4 ,and here let me say1 as ,i have said many times1 that ,i do not hate ,presbyterians--because among them ,i count some of my best friends--but ,i hate ,presbyterianism4 ,and ,i cannot illustrate this any better than by saying1 ,i do not hate a man because he has the rheumatism1 but ,i hate the rheumatism because it has a man4 ,the ,presbyterian ,church is growing1 and is growing because1 as ,i said at first1 there is a universal tendency in the mind of man to harmonize all that he knows or thinks he knows4 ,this growth may be delayed4 ,the buds of heresy may be kept back by the north wind of ,princeton and by the early frost called ,patton4 ,in spite of these souvenirs of the ,dark ,ages1 the church must continue to grow4 ,the theologians who regard theology as something higher than a trade1 tend toward ,liberalism4 ,those who regard preaching as a business1 and the inculcation of sentiment as a trade1 will stand by the lowest possible views4 ,they will cling to the letter and throw away the spirit4 ,they prefer the dead limb to a new bud or to a new leaf4 ,they want no more sap4 ,they delight in the dead tree1 in its unbending nature1 and they mistake the stiffness of death for the vigor and resistance of life4 ,now1 as with ,dr4 ,briggs1 so with ,dr4 ,bridgman1 although it seems to me that he has simply jumped from the frying-pan into the fire2 and why he should prefer the ,episcopal creed to the ,baptist1 is more than ,i can imagine4 ,the ,episcopal creed is1 in fact1 just as bad as the ,presbyterian4 ,it calmly and with unruffled brow1 utters the sentence of eternal punishment on the majority of the human race1 and the ,episcopalian expects to be happy in heaven1 with his son or daughter or his mother or wife in hell4 ,dr4 ,bridgman will find himself exactly in the position of the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,newton1 provided he expresses his thought4 ,but ,i account for the ,bridgmans and for the ,newtons by the fact that there is still sympathy in the human heart1 and that there is still intelligence in the human brain4 ,for my part1 ,i am glad to see this growth in the orthodox churches1 and the quicker they revise their creeds the better4 ,i oppose nothing that is good in any creed--,i attack only that which is ignorant1 cruel and absurd1 and ,i make the attack in the interest of human liberty1 and for the sake of human happiness4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the action of the ,presbyterian ,general ,assembly at ,detroit1 and what effect do you think it will have on religious growth8 ,answer4 ,that ,general ,assembly was controlled by the orthodox within the church1 by the strict constructionists and by the ,calvinists2 by gentlemen who not only believe the creed1 not only believe that a vast majority of people are going to hell1 but are really glad of it2 by gentlemen who1 when they feel a little blue1 read about total depravity to cheer up1 and when they think of the mercy of ,god as exhibited in their salvation1 and the justice of ,god as illustrated by the damnation of others1 their hearts burst into a kind of efflorescence of joy4 ,these gentlemen are opposed to all kinds of amusements except reading the ,bible1 the ,confession of ,faith1 and the creed1 and listening to ,presbyterian sermons and prayers4 ,all these things they regard as the food of cheerfulness4 ,they warn the elect against theatres and operas1 dancing and games of chance4 ,well1 if their doctrine is true1 there ought to be no theatres1 except exhibitions of hell2 there ought to be no operas1 except where the music is a succession of wails for the misfortunes of man4 ,if their doctrine is true1 ,i do not see how any human being could ever smile again--,i do not see how a mother could welcome her babe2 everything in nature would become hateful2 flowers and sunshine would simply tell us of our fate4 ,my doctrine is exactly the opposite of this4 ,let us enjoy ourselves every moment that we can4 ,the love of the dramatic is universal4 ,the stage has not simply amused1 but it has elevated mankind4 ,the greatest genius of our world poured the treasures of his soul into the drama4 ,i do not believe that any girl can be corrupted1 or that any man can be injured1 by becoming acquainted with ,isabella or ,miranda or ,juliet or ,imogen1 or any of the great heroines of ,shakespeare4 ,so ,i regard the opera as one of the great civilizers4 ,no one can listen to the symphonies of ,beethoven1 or the music of ,schubert1 without receiving a benefit4 ,and no one can hear the operas of ,wagner without feeling that he has been ennobled and refined4 ,why is it the ,presbyterians are so opposed to music in the world1 and yet expect to have so much in heaven8 ,is not music just as demoralizing in the sky as on the earth1 and does anybody believe that ,abraham or ,isaac or ,jacob1 ever played any music comparable to ,wagner8 ,why should we postpone our joy to another world8 ,thousands of people take great pleasure in dancing1 and ,i say let them dance4 ,dancing is better than weeping and wailing over a theology born of ignorance and superstition4 ,and so with games of chance4 ,there is a certain pleasure in playing games1 and the pleasure is of the most innocent character4 ,let all these games be played at home and children will not prefer the saloon to the society of their parents4 ,i believe in cards and billiards1 and would believe in progressive euchre1 were it more of a game--the great objection to it is its lack of complexity4 ,my idea is to get what little happiness you can out of this life1 and to enjoy all sunshine that breaks through the clouds of misfortune4 ,life is poor enough at best4 ,no one should fail to pick up every jewel of joy that can be found in his path4 ,every one should be as happy as he can1 provided he is not happy at the expense of another1 and no person rightly constituted can be happy at the expense of another4 ,so let us get all we can of good between the cradle and the grave2 all that we can of the truly dramatic2 all that we can of music2 all that we can of art2 all that we can of enjoyment2 and if1 when death comes1 that is the end1 we have at least made the best of this life2 and if there be another life1 let us make the best of that4 ,i am doing what little ,i can to hasten the coming of the day when the human race will enjoy liberty--not simply of body1 but liberty of mind4 ,and by liberty of mind ,i mean freedom from superstition1 and added to that1 the intelligence to find out the conditions of happiness2 and added to that1 the wisdom to live in accordance with those conditions4 --,the ,morning ,advertiser1 ,new ,york1 ,june #ab1 #ahia4 ,,the ,,tendency ,,of ,,modern ,,thought4 ,question4 ,do you regard the ,briggs trial as any evidence of the growth of ,liberalism in the church itself8 ,answer4 ,when men get together1 and make what they call a creed1 the supposition is that they then say as nearly as possible what they mean and what they believe4 ,a written creed1 of necessity1 remains substantially the same4 ,in a few years this creed ceases to give exactly the new shade of thought4 ,then begin two processes1 one of destruction and the other of preservation4 ,in every church1 as in every party1 and as you may say in every corporation1 there are two wings--one progressive1 the other conservative4 ,in the church there will be a few1 and they will represent the real intelligence of the church1 who become dissatisfied with the creed1 and who at first satisfy themselves by giving new meanings to old words4 ,on the other hand1 the conservative party appeals to emotions1 to memories1 and to the experiences of their fellow- members1 for the purpose of upholding the old dogmas and the old ideas2 so that each creed is like a crumbling castle4 ,the conservatives plant ivy and other vines1 hoping that their leaves will hide the cracks and erosions of time2 but the thoughtful see beyond these leaves and are satisfied that the structure itself is in the process of decay1 and that no amount of ivy can restore the crumbling stones4 ,the old ,presbyterian creed1 when it was first formulated1 satisfied a certain religious intellect4 ,at that time people were not very merciful4 ,they had no clear conceptions of justice4 ,their lives were for the most part hard2 most of them suffered the pains and pangs of poverty2 nearly all lived in tyrannical governments and were the sport of nobles and kings4 ,their idea of ,god was born of their surroundings4 ,god1 to them1 was an infinite king who delighted in exhibitions of power4 ,at any rate1 their minds were so constructed that they conceived of an infinite being who1 billions of years before the world was1 made up his mind as to whom he would save and whom he would damn4 ,he not only made up his mind as to the number he would save1 and the number that should be lost1 but he saved and damned without the slightest reference to the character of the individual4 ,they believed then1 and some pretend to believe still1 that ,god damns a man not because he is bad1 and that he saves a man not because he is good1 but simply for the purpose of self-glorification as an exhibition of his eternal justice4 ,it would be impossible to conceive of any creed more horrible than that of the ,presbyterians4 ,although ,i admit--and ,i not only admit but ,i assert--that the creeds of all orthodox ,christians are substantially the same1 the ,presbyterian creed says plainly what it means4 ,there is no hesitation1 no evasion4 ,the horrible truth1 so-called1 is stated in the clearest possible language4 ,one would think after reading this creed1 that the men who wrote it not only believed it1 but were really glad it was true4 ,ideas of justice1 of the use of power1 of the use of mercy1 have greatly changed in the last century4 ,we are beginning dimly to see that each man is the result of an infinite number of conditions1 of an infinite number of facts1 most of which existed before he was born4 ,we are beginning dimly to see that while reason is a pilot1 each soul navigates the mysterious sea filled with tides and unknown currents set in motion by ancestors long since dust4 ,we are beginning to see that defects of mind are transmitted precisely the same as defects of body1 and in my judgment the time is coming when we shall not more think of punishing a man for larceny than for having the consumption4 ,we shall know that the thief is a necessary and natural result of conditions1 preparing1 you may say1 the field of the world for the growth of man4 ,we shall no longer depend upon accident and ignorance and providence4 ,we shall depend upon intelligence and science4 ,the ,presbyterian creed is no longer in harmony with the average sense of man4 ,it shocks the average mind4 ,it seems too monstrous to be true2 too horrible to find a lodgment in the mind of the civilized man4 ,the ,presbyterian minister who thinks1 is giving new meanings to the old words4 ,the ,presbyterian minister who feels1 also gives new meanings to the old words4 ,only those who neither think nor feel remain orthodox4 ,for many years the ,christian world has been engaged in examining the religions of other peoples1 and the ,christian scholars have had but little trouble in demonstrating the origin of ,mohammedanism and ,buddhism and all other isms except ours4 ,after having examined other religions in the light of science1 it occurred to some of our theologians to examine their own doctrine in the same way1 and the result has been exactly the same in both cases4 ,dr4 ,briggs1 as ,i believe1 is a man of education4 ,he is undoubtedly familiar with other religions1 and has1 to some extent at least1 made himself familiar with the sacred books of other people4 ,dr4 ,briggs knows that no human being knows who wrote a line of the ,old ,testament4 ,he knows as well as he can know anything1 for instance1 that ,moses never wrote one word of the books attributed to him4 ,he knows that the book of ,genesis was made by putting two or three stories together4 ,he also knows that it is not the oldest story1 but was borrowed4 ,he knows that in this book of ,genesis there is not one word adapted to make a human being better1 or to shed the slightest light on human conduct4 ,he knows1 if he knows anything1 that the ,mosaic ,code1 so-called1 was1 and is1 exceedingly barbarous and not adapted to do justice between man and man1 or between nation and nation4 ,he knows that the ,jewish people pursued a course adapted to destroy themselves2 that they refused to make friends with their neighbors2 that they had not the slightest idea of the rights of other people2 that they really supposed that the earth was theirs1 and that their ,god was the greatest ,god in the heavens4 ,he also knows that there are many thousands of mistakes in the ,old ,testament as translated4 ,he knows that the book of ,isaiah is made up of several books4 ,he knows the same thing in regard to the ,new ,testament4 ,he also knows that there were many other books that were once considered sacred that have been thrown away1 and that nobody knows who wrote a solitary line of the ,new ,testament4 ,besides all this1 ,dr4 ,briggs knows that the ,old and ,new ,testaments are filled with interpolations1 and he knows that the passages of ,scripture which have been taken as the foundation stones for creeds1 were written hundreds of years after the death of ,christ4 ,he knows well enough that ,christ never said3 ,i came not to bring peace1 but a sword4 ,he knows that the same being never said3 ,thou art ,peter1 and on this rock will ,i build my church4 ,he knows1 too1 that ,christ never said3 ,whosoever believes shall be saved1 and whosoever believes not shall be damned4 ,he knows that these were interpolations4 ,he knows that the sin against the ,holy ,ghost is another interpolation4 ,he knows1 if he knows anything1 that the gospel according to ,john was written long after the rest1 and that nearly all of the poison and superstition of orthodoxy is in that book4 ,he knows also1 if he knows anything1 that ,st4 ,paul never read one of the four gospels4 ,knowing all these things1 ,dr4 ,briggs has had the honesty to say that there was some trouble about taking the ,bible as absolutely inspired in word and punctuation4 ,i do not think1 however1 that he can maintain his own position and still remain a ,presbyterian or anything like a ,presbyterian4 ,he takes the ground1 ,i believe1 that there are three sources of knowledge3 ,first1 the ,bible2 second1 the church2 third1 reason4 ,it seems to me that reason should come first1 because if you say the ,bible is a source of authority1 why do you say it8 ,do you say this because your reason is convinced that it is8 ,if so1 then reason is the foundation of that belief4 ,if1 again1 you say the church is a source of authority1 why do you say so8 ,it must be because its history convinces your reason that it is4 ,consequently1 the foundation of that idea is reason4 ,at the bottom of this pyramid must be reason1 and no man is under any obligation to believe that which is unreasonable to him4 ,he may believe things that he cannot prove1 but he does not believe them because they are unreasonable4 ,he believes them because he thinks they are not unreasonable1 not impossible1 not improbable4 ,but1 after all1 reason is the crucible in which every fact must be placed1 and the result fixes the belief of the intelligent man4 ,it seems to me that the whole ,presbyterian creed must come down together4 ,it is a scheme based upon certain facts1 so-called4 ,there is in it the fall of man4 ,there is in it the scheme of the atonement1 and there is the idea of hell1 eternal punishment1 and the idea of heaven1 eternal reward2 and yet1 according to their creed1 hell is not a punishment and heaven is not a reward4 ,now1 if we do away with the fall of man we do away with the atonement2 then we do away with all supernatural religion4 ,then we come back to human reason4 ,personally1 ,i hope that the ,presbyterian ,church will be advanced enough and splendid enough to be honest1 and if it is honest1 all the gentlemen who amount to anything1 who assist in the trial of ,dr4 ,briggs1 will in all probability agree with him1 and he will be acquitted4 ,but if they throw aside their reason1 and remain blindly orthodox1 then he will be convicted4 ,to me it is simply miraculous that any man should imagine that the ,bible is the source of truth4 ,there was a time when all scientific facts were measured by the ,bible4 ,that time is past1 and now the believers in the ,bible are doing their best to convince us that it is in harmony with science4 ,in other words1 ,i have lived to see a change of standards4 ,when ,i was a boy1 science was measured by the ,bible4 ,now the ,bible is measured by science4 ,this is an immense step4 ,so it is impossible for me to conceive what kind of a mind a man has1 who finds in the history of the church the fact that it has been a source of truth4 ,how can any one come to the conclusion that the ,catholic ,church has been a source of truth1 a source of intellectual light8 ,how can anyone believe that the church of ,john ,calvin has been a source of truth8 ,if its creed is not true1 if its doctrines are mistakes1 if its dogmas are monstrous delusions1 how can it be said to have been a source of truth8 ,my opinion is that ,dr4 ,briggs will not be satisfied with the step he has taken4 ,he has turned his face a little toward the light4 ,the farther he walks the harder it will be for him to turn back4 ,the probability is that the orthodox will turn him out1 and the process of driving out men of thought and men of genius will go on until the remnant will be as orthodox as they are stupid4 ,question4 ,do you think mankind is drifting away from the supernatural8 ,answer4 ,my belief is that the supernatural has had its day4 ,the church must either change or abdicate4 ,that is to say1 it must keep step with the progress of the world or be trampled under foot4 ,the church as a power has ceased to exist4 ,to-day it is a matter of infinite indifference what the pulpit thinks unless there comes the voice of heresy from the sacred place4 ,every orthodox minister in the ,united ,states is listened to just in proportion that he preaches heresy4 ,the real1 simon-pure1 orthodox clergyman delivers his homilies to empty benches1 and to a few ancient people who know nothing of the tides and currents of modern thought4 ,the orthodox pulpit to-day has no thought1 and the pews are substantially in the same condition4 ,there was a time when the curse of the church whitened the face of a race1 but now its anathema is the food of laughter4 ,question4 ,what1 in your judgment1 is to be the outcome of the present agitation in religious circles8 ,answer4 ,my idea is that people more and more are declining the postponement of happiness to another world4 ,the general tendency is to enjoy the present4 ,all religions have taught men that the pleasures of this world are of no account2 that they are nothing but husks and rags and chaff and disappointment2 that whoever expects to be happy in this world makes a mistake2 that there is nothing on the earth worth striving for2 that the principal business of mankind should be to get ready to be happy in another world2 that the great occupation is to save your soul1 and when you get it saved1 when you are satisfied that you are one of the elect1 then pack up all your worldly things in a very small trunk1 take it to the dock of time that runs out into the ocean of eternity1 sit down on it1 and wait for the ship of death4 ,and of course each church is the only one that sells a through ticket which can be depended on4 ,in all religions1 as far as ,i know1 is an admixture of asceticism1 and the greater the quantity1 the more beautiful the religion has been considered1 ,the tendency of the world to- day is to enjoy life while you have it2 it is to get something out of the present moment2 and we have found that there are things worth living for even in this world4 ,we have found that a man can enjoy himself with wife and children2 that he can be happy in the acquisition of knowledge2 that he can be very happy in assisting others2 in helping those he loves2 that there is some joy in poetry1 in science and in the enlargement and development of the mind2 that there is some delight in music and in the drama and in the arts4 ,we are finding1 poor as the world is1 that it beats a promise the fulfillment of which is not to take place until after death4 ,the world is also finding out another thing1 and that is that the gentlemen who preach these various religions1 and promise these rewards1 and threaten the punishments1 know nothing whatever of the subject2 that they are as blindly ignorant as the people they pretend to teach1 and the people are as blindly ignorant as the animals below them4 ,we have finally concluded that no human being has the slightest conception of origin or of destiny1 and that this life1 not only in its commencement but in its end1 is just as mysterious to-day as it was to the first man whose eyes greeted the rising sun4 ,we are no nearer the solution of the problem than those who lived thousands of years before us1 and we are just as near it as those who will live millions of years after we are dead4 ,so many people having arrived at the conclusion that nobody knows and that nobody can know1 like sensible folks they have made up their minds to enjoy life4 ,i have often said1 and ,i say again1 that ,i feel as if ,i were on a ship not knowing the port from which it sailed1 not knowing the harbor to which it was going1 not having a speaking acquaintance with any of the officers1 and ,i have made up my mind to have as good a time with the other passengers as possible under the circumstances4 ,if this ship goes down in mid- sea ,i have at least made something1 and if it reaches a harbor of perpetual delight ,i have lost nothing1 and ,i have had a happy voyage4 ,and ,i think millions and millions are agreeing with me4 ,now1 understand1 ,i am not finding fault with any of these religions or with any of these ministers4 ,these religions and these ministers are the necessary and natural products of sufficient causes4 ,mankind has traveled from barbarism to what we now call civilization1 by many paths1 all of which under the circumstances1 were absolutely necessary2 and while ,i think the individual does as he must1 ,i think the same of the church1 of the corporation1 and of the nation1 and not only of the nation1 but of the whole human race4 ,consequently ,i have no malice and no prejudices4 ,i have likes and dislikes4 ,i do not blame a gourd for not being a cantaloupe1 but ,i like cantaloupes4 ,so ,i do not blame the old hard-shell ,presbyterian for not being a philosopher1 but ,i like philosophers4 ,so to wind it all up with regard to the tendency of modern thought1 or as to the outcome of what you call religion1 my own belief is that what is known as religion will disappear from the human mind4 ,and by religion ,i mean the supernatural4 ,by religion ,i mean living in this world for another1 or living in this world to gratify some supposed being1 whom we never saw and about whom we know nothing1 and of whose existence we know nothing4 ,in other words1 religion consists of the duties we are supposed to owe to the first great cause1 and of certain things necessary for us to do here to insure happiness hereafter4 ,these ideas1 in my judgment1 are destined to perish1 and men will become convinced that all their duties are within their reach1 and that obligations can exist only between them and other sentient beings4 ,another idea1 ,i think1 will force itself upon the mind1 which is this3 ,that he who lives the best for this world lives the best for another if there be one4 ,in other words1 humanity will take the place of what is called religion4 ,science will displace superstition1 and to do justice will be the ambition of man4 ,my creed is this3 ,happiness is the only good4 ,the place to be happy is here4 ,the time to be happy is now4 ,the way to be happy is to make others so4 ,question4 ,what is going to take the place of the pulpit8 ,answer4 ,i have for a long time wondered why somebody didn't start a church on a sensible basis4 ,my idea is this3 ,there are1 of course1 in every community1 lawyers1 doctors1 merchants1 and people of all trades and professions who have not the time during the week to pay any particular attention to history1 poetry1 art1 or song4 ,now1 it seems to me that it would be a good thing to have a church and for these men to employ a man of ability1 of talent1 to preach to them ,sundays1 and let this man say to his congregation3 ,now1 ,i am going to preach to you for the first few ,sundays--eight or ten or twenty1 we will say--on the art1 poetry1 and intellectual achievements of the ,greeks4 ,let this man study all the week and tell his congregation ,sunday what he has ascertained4 ,let him give to his people the history of such men as ,plato1 as ,socrates1 what they did2 of ,aristotle1 of his philosophy2 of the great ,greeks1 their statesmen1 their poets1 actors1 and sculptors1 and let him show the debt that modern civilization owes to these people4 ,let him1 too1 give their religions1 their mythology--a mythology that has sown the seed of beauty in every land4 ,then let him take up ,rome4 ,let him show what a wonderful and practical people they were2 let him give an idea of their statesmen1 orators1 poets1 lawyers--because probably the ,romans were the greatest lawyers4 ,and so let him go through with nation after nation1 biography after biography1 and at the same time let there be a ,sunday school connected with this church where the children shall be taught something of importance4 ,for instance1 teach them botany1 and when a ,sunday is fair1 clear1 and beautiful1 let them go into the fields and woods with their teachers1 and in a little while they will become acquainted with all kinds of tress and shrubs and flowering plants4 ,they could also be taught entomology1 so that every bug would be interesting1 for they would see the facts in science-- something of use to them4 ,i believe that such a church and such a ,sunday school would at the end of a few years be the most intelligent collection of people in the ,united ,states4 ,to teach the children all of these things and to teach their parents1 too1 the outlines of every science1 so that every listener would know something of geology1 something of astronomy1 so that every member could tell the manner in which they find the distance of a star-- how much better that would be than the old talk about ,abraham1 ,isaac1 and ,jacob1 and quotations from ,haggai and ,zephaniah1 and all this eternal talk about the fall of man and the ,garden of ,eden1 and the flood1 and the atonement1 and the wonders of ,revelation6 ,even if the religious scheme be true1 it can be told and understood as well in one day as in a hundred years4 ,the church says1 ,he that hath ears to hear let him hear4 ,i say3 ,he that hath brains to think1 let him think4 ,so1 too1 the pulpit is being displaced by what we call places of amusement1 which are really places where men go because they find there is something which satisfies in a greater or less degree the hunger of the brain4 ,never before was the theatre as popular as it is now4 ,never before was so much money lavished upon the stage as now4 ,very few men having their choice would go to hear a sermon1 especially of the orthodox kind1 when they had a chance to see a great actor4 ,the man must be a curious combination who would prefer an orthodox sermon1 we will say1 to a concert given by ,theodore ,thomas4 ,and ,i may say in passing that ,i have great respect for ,theodore ,thomas1 because it was he who first of all opened to the ,american people the golden gates of music4 ,he made the ,american people acquainted with the great masters1 and especially with ,wagner1 and it is a debt that we shall always owe him4 ,in this day the opera--that is to say1 music in every form--is tending to displace the pulpit4 ,the pulpits have to go in partnership with music now4 ,hundreds of people have excused themselves to me for going to church1 saying they have splendid music4 ,long ago the ,catholic ,church was forced to go into partnership not only with music1 but with painting and with architecture4 ,the ,protestant ,church for a long time thought it could do without these beggarly elements1 and the ,protestant ,church was simply a dry-goods box with a small steeple on top of it1 its walls as bleak and bare and unpromising as the creed4 ,but even ,protestants have been forced to hire a choir of ungodly people who happen to have beautiful voices1 and they1 too1 have appealed to the organ4 ,music is taking the place of creed1 and there is more real devotional feeling summoned from the temple of the mind by great music than by any sermon ever delivered4 ,music1 of all other things1 gives wings to thought and allows the soul to rise above all the pains and troubles of this life1 and to feel for a moment as if it were absolutely free1 above all clouds1 destined to enjoy forever4 ,so1 too1 science is beckoning with countless hands4 ,men of genius are everywhere beckoning men to discoveries1 promising them fortunes compared with which ,aladdin's lamp was weak and poor4 ,all these things take men from the church2 take men from the pulpit4 ,in other words1 prosperity is the enemy of the pulpit4 ,when men enjoy life1 when they are prosperous here1 they are in love with the arts1 with the sciences1 with everything that gives joy1 with everything that promises plenty1 and they care nothing about the prophecies of evil that fall from the solemn faces of the parsons4 ,they look in other directions4 ,they are not thinking about the end of the world4 ,they hate the lugubrious1 and they enjoy the sunshine of to-day4 ,and this1 in my judgment1 is the highest philosophy3 ,first1 do not regret having lost yesterday2 second1 do not fear that you will lose to-morrow2 third1 enjoy to- day4 ,astrology was displaced by astronomy4 ,alchemy and the black art gave way to chemistry4 ,science is destined to take the place of superstition4 ,in my judgment1 the religion of the future will be ,reason4 --,the ,tribune1 ,chicago1 ,illinois1 ,november1 #ahia4 ,,woman ,,suffrage1 ,,horse ,,racing1 ,,and ,,money4 ,question4 ,what are your opinions on the woman's suffrage question8 ,answer4 ,i claim no right that ,i am not willing to give to my wife and daughters1 and to the wives and daughters of other men4 ,we shall never have a generation of great men until we have a generation of great women4 ,i do not regard ignorance as the foundation of virtue1 or uselessness as one of the requisites of a lady4 ,i am a believer in equal rights4 ,those who are amenable to the laws should have a voice in making the laws4 ,in every department where woman has had an equal opportunity with man1 she has shown that she has equal capacity4 ,george ,sand was a great writer1 ,george ,eliot one of the greatest1 ,mrs4 ,browning a marvelous poet--and the lyric beauty of her ,mother and ,poet is greater than anything her husband ever wrote--,harriet ,martineau a wonderful woman1 and ,ouida is probably the greatest living novelist1 man or woman4 ,give the women a chance4 ,the ,colonel's recent election as a life member of the ,manhattan ,athletic ,club1 due strangely enough to a speech of his denouncing certain forms of sport1 was referred to1 and this led him to express his contempt for prize-fighting1 and then he said on the subject of horse-racing3 ,the only objection ,i have to horse racing is its cruelty4 ,the whip and spur should be banished from the track4 ,as long as these are used1 the race track will breed a very low and heartless set of men4 ,i hate to see a brute whip and spur a noble animal4 ,the good people object to racing1 because of the betting1 but bad people1 like myself1 object to the cruelty4 ,men are not forced to bet4 ,that is their own business1 but the poor horse1 straining every nerve1 does not ask for the lash and iron4 ,abolish torture on the track and let the best horse win4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,chilian insult to the ,united ,states flag8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 ,i think that our ,government was wrong in taking the part of ,balmaceda4 ,in the next place1 we made a mistake in seizing the ,itata4 ,america should always side with the right4 ,we should care nothing for the pretender in power1 and ,balmaceda was a cruel1 tyrannical scoundrel4 ,we should be with the people everywhere4 ,i do not blame ,chili for feeling a little revengeful4 ,we ought to remember that ,chili is weak1 and nations1 like individuals1 are sensitive in proportion that they are weak4 ,let us trust ,chili just as we would ,england4 ,we are too strong to be unjust4 ,question4 ,how do you stand on the money question8 ,answer4 ,i am with the ,republican party on the question of money4 ,i am for the use of gold and silver both1 but ,i want a dollar's worth of silver in a silver dollar4 ,i do not believe in light money1 or in cheap money1 or in poor money4 ,these are all contradictions in terms4 ,congress cannot fix the value of money4 ,the most it can do is to fix its debt paying power4 ,it is beyond the power of any ,congress to fix the purchasing value of what it may be pleased to call money4 ,nobody knows1 so far as ,i know1 why people want gold4 ,i do not know why people want silver4 ,i do not know how gold came to be money2 neither do ,i understand the universal desire1 but it exists1 and we take things as we find them4 ,gold and silver make up1 you may say1 the money of the world1 and ,i believe in using the two metals4 ,i do not believe in depreciating any ,american product2 but as value cannot be absolutely fixed by law1 so far as the purchasing power is concerned1 and as the values of gold and silver vary1 neither being stable any more than the value of wheat or corn is stable1 ,i believe that legislation should keep pace within a reasonable distance at least1 of the varying values1 and that the money should be kept as nearly equal as possible4 ,of course1 there is one trouble with money to-day1 and that is the use of the word dollar4 ,it has lost its meaning4 ,so many governments have adulterated their own coin1 and as many have changed weights1 that the word dollar has not to-day an absolute1 definite1 specific meaning4 ,like individuals1 nations have been dishonest4 ,the only time the papal power had the right to coin money--,i believe it was under ,pius ,,ix41 when ,antonelli was his minister--the coin of the papacy was so debased that even orthodox ,catholics refused to take it1 and it had to be called in and minted by the ,french ,empire1 before even the ,italians recognized it as money4 ,my own opinion is1 that either the dollar must be absolutely defined--it must be the world over so many grains of pure gold1 or so many grains of pure silver--or we must have other denominations for our money1 as for instance1 ounces1 or parts of ounces1 and the time will come1 in my judgment1 when there will be a money of the world1 the same everywhere2 because each coin will contain upon its face the certificate of a government that it contains such a weight--so many grains or so many ounces--of a certain metal4 ,i1 for one1 want the money of the ,united ,states to be as good as that of any other country4 ,i want its gold and silver exactly what they purport to be2 and ,i want the paper issued by the ,government to be the same as gold4 ,i want its credit so perfectly established that it will be taken in every part of the habitable globe4 ,i am with the ,republican party on the question of money1 also on the question of protection1 and all ,i hope is that the people of this country will have sense enough to defend their own interests4 --,the ,inter-,ocean1 ,chicago1 ,illinois1 ,october #bg1 #ahia4 ,,missionaries4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of foreign missions8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 there seems to be a pretty good opening in this country for missionary work4 ,we have a good many ,indians who are not ,methodists4 ,i have never known one to be converted4 ,a good many have been killed by ,christians1 but their souls have not been saved4 ,maybe the ,methodists had better turn their attention to the heathen of our own country4 ,then we have a good many ,mormons who rely on the truth of the ,old ,testament and follow the example of ,abraham1 ,isaac and ,jacob4 ,it seems to me that the ,methodists better convert the ,mormons before attacking the tribes of ,central ,africa4 ,there is plenty of work to be done right here4 ,a few good bishops might be employed for a time in converting ,dr4 ,briggs and ,professor ,swing1 to say nothing of other heretical ,presbyterians4 ,there is no need of going to ,china to convert the ,chinese4 ,there are thousands of them here4 ,in ,china our missionaries will tell the followers of ,confucius about the love and forgiveness of ,christians1 and when the ,chinese come here they are robbed1 assaulted1 and often murdered4 ,would it not be a good thing for the ,methodists to civilize our own ,christians to such a degree that they would not murder a man simply because he belongs to another race and worships other gods8 ,so1 too1 ,i think it would be a good thing for the ,methodists to go ,south and persuade their brethren in that country to treat the colored people with kindness4 ,a few efforts might be made to convert the ,white-caps in ,ohio1 ,indiana and some other ,states4 ,my advice to the ,methodists is to do what little good they can right here and now4 ,it seems cruel to preach to the heathen a gospel that is dying out even here1 and fill their poor minds with the absurd dogmas and cruel creeds that intelligent men have outgrown and thrown away4 ,honest commerce will do a thousand times more good than all the missionaries on earth4 ,i do not believe that an intelligent ,chinaman or an intelligent ,hindoo has ever been or ever will be converted into a ,methodist4 ,if ,methodism is good we need it here1 and if it is not good1 do not fool the heathen with it4 --,the ,press1 ,cleveland1 ,ohio1 ,november #ab1 #ahia4 ,,my ,,belief ,,and ,,unbelief499 99 ,col4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll was in ,toledo for a few hours yesterday afternoon on railroad business4 ,whatever ,mr4 ,ingersoll says is always read with interest1 for besides the independence of his averments1 his ideas are worded in a way that in itself is attractive4 ,while in the court room talking with some of the officials and others1 he was saying that in this world there is rather an unequal distribution of comforts1 rewards1 and punishments4 ,for himself1 he had fared pretty well4 ,he stated that during the thirty years he has been married there have been fifteen to twenty of his relatives under the same roof1 but never had there been in his family a death or a night's loss of sleep on account of sickness4 ,the ,lord has been pretty good to you1 suggested ,marshall ,wade4 ,well1 ,i've been pretty good to him1 he answered4 ,question4 ,i have heard people in discussing yourself and your views1 express the belief that way down in the depths of your mind you are not altogether a disbeliever4 ,are they in any sense correct8 ,answer4 ,i am an unbeliever1 and ,i am a believer4 ,i do not believe in the miraculous1 the supernatural1 or the impossible4 ,i do not believe in the ,mosaic account of the creation1 or in the flood1 or the ,tower of ,babel1 or that ,general ,joshua turned back the sun or stopped the earth4 ,i do not believe in the ,jonah story1 or that ,god and the ,devil troubled poor ,job4 ,neither do ,i believe in the ,mt4 ,sinai business1 and ,i have my doubts about the broiled quails furnished in the wilderness4 ,neither do ,i believe that man is wholly depraved4 ,i have not the least faith in the ,eden1 snake and apple story4 ,neither do ,i believe that ,god is an eternal jailer2 that he is going to be the warden of an everlasting penitentiary in which the most of men are to be eternally tormented4 ,i do not believe that any man can be justly punished or rewarded on account of his belief4 ,but ,i do believe in the nobility of human nature4 ,i believe in love and home1 and kindness and humanity4 ,i believe in good fellowship and cheerfulness1 in making wife and children happy4 ,i believe in good nature1 in giving to others all the rights that you claim for yourself4 ,i believe in free thought1 in reason1 observation and experience4 ,i believe in self-reliance and in expressing your honest thought4 ,i have hope for the whole human race4 ,what will happen to one1 will1 ,i hope1 happen to all1 and that1 ,i hope1 will be good4 ,above all1 ,i believe in ,liberty4 --,the ,blade1 ,toledo1 ,ohio1 ,january #i1 #ahib4 ,,must ,,religion ,,go8 ,question4 ,what is your idea as to the difference between honest belief1 as held by honest religious thinkers1 and heterodoxy8 ,answer4 ,of course1 ,i believe that there are thousands of men and women who honestly believe not only in the improbable1 not only in the absurd1 but in the impossible4 ,heterodoxy1 so-called1 occupies the half-way station between superstition and reason4 ,a heretic is one who is still dominated by religion1 but in the east of whose mind there is a dawn4 ,he is one who has seen the morning star2 he has not entire confidence in the day1 and imagines in some way that even the light he sees was born of the night4 ,in the mind of the heretic1 darkness and light are mingled1 the ties of intellectual kindred bind him to the night1 and yet he has enough of the spirit of adventure to look toward the east4 ,of course1 ,i admit that ,christians and heretics are both honest2 a real ,christian must be honest and a real heretic must be the same4 ,all men must be honest in what they think2 but all men are not honest in what they say4 ,in the invisible world of the mind every man is honest4 ,the judgment never was bribed4 ,speech may be false1 but conviction is always honest4 ,so that the difference between honest belief1 as shared by honest religious thinkers and heretics1 is a difference of intelligence4 ,it is the difference between a ship lashed to the dock1 and on making a voyage2 it is the difference between twilight and dawn--that is to say1 the coming of the sight and the coming of the morning4 ,question4 ,are women becoming freed from the bonds of sectarianism8 ,answer4 ,women are less calculating than men4 ,as a rule they do not occupy the territory of compromise4 ,they are natural extremists4 ,the woman who is not dominated by superstition is apt to be absolutely free1 and when a woman has broken the shackles of superstition1 she has no apprehension1 no fears4 ,she feels that she is on the open sea1 and she cares neither for wind nor wave4 ,an emancipated woman never can be re-enslaved4 ,her heart goes with her opinions1 and goes first4 ,question4 ,do you consider that the influence of religion is better than the influence of ,liberalism upon society1 that is to say1 is society less or more moral1 is vice more or less conspicuous8 ,answer4 ,whenever a chain is broken an obligation takes its place4 ,there is and there can be no responsibility without liberty4 ,the freer a man is1 the more responsible1 the more accountable he feels2 consequently the more liberty there is1 the more morality there is4 ,believers in religion teach us that ,god will reward men for good actions1 but men who are intellectually free1 know that the reward of a good action cannot be given by any power1 but that it is the natural result of the good action4 ,the free man1 guided by intelligence1 knows that his reward is in the nature of things1 and not in the caprice even of the ,infinite4 ,he is not a good and faithful servant1 he is an intelligent free man4 ,the vicious are ignorant2 real morality is the child of intelligence2 the free and intelligent man knows that every action must be judged by its consequences2 he knows that if he does good he reaps a good harvest2 he knows that if he does evil he bears a burden1 and he knows that these good and evil consequences are not determined by an infinite master1 but that they live in and are produced by the actions themselves4 --,evening ,advertiser1 ,new ,york1 ,february #f1 #ahib4 ,,word ,,painting ,,and ,,college ,,education4 ,question4 ,what is the history of the speech delivered here in #ahgf8 ,was it extemporaneous8 ,answer4 ,it was not born entirely of the occasion4 ,it took me several years to put the thoughts in form--to paint the pictures with words4 ,no man can do his best on the instant4 ,iron to be beaten into perfect form has to be heated several times and turned upon the anvil many more1 and hammered long and often4 ,you might as well try to paint a picture with one sweep of the brush1 or chisel a statue with one stroke1 as to paint many pictures with words1 without great thought and care4 ,now and then1 while a man is talking1 heated with his subject1 a great thought1 sudden as a flash of lightning1 illumines the intellectual sky1 and a great sentence clothed in words of purple1 falls1 or rather rushes1 from his lips--but a continuous flight is born1 not only of enthusiasm1 but of long and careful thought4 ,a perfect picture requires more details1 more lights and shadows1 than the mind can grasp at once1 or on the instant4 ,thoughts are not born of chance4 ,they grow and bud and blossom1 and bear the fruit of perfect form4 ,genius is the soil and climate1 but the soil must be cultivated1 and the harvest is not instantly after the planting4 ,it takes time and labor to raise and harvest a crop from that field called the brain4 ,question4 ,do you think young men need a college education to get along8 ,answer4 ,probably many useless things are taught in colleges4 ,i think1 as a rule1 too much time is wasted learning the names of the cards without learning to play a game4 ,i think a young man should be taught something that he can use--something he can sell4 ,after coming from college he should be better equipped to battle with the world--to do something of use4 ,a man may have his brain stuffed with ,greek and ,latin without being able to fill his stomach with anything of importance4 ,still1 ,i am in favor of the highest education4 ,i would like to see splendid schools in every ,state1 and then a university1 and all scholars passing a certain examination sent to the ,state university free1 and then a ,united ,states university1 the best in the world1 and all graduates of the ,state universities passing a certain examination sent to the ,united ,states university free4 ,we ought to have in this country the best library1 the best university1 the best school of design in the world2 and so ,i say1 more money for the mind4 ,question4 ,was the peculiar conduct of the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,parkhurst1 of ,new ,york1 justifiable1 and do you think that it had a tendency to help morality8 ,answer4 ,if ,christ had written a decoy letter to the woman to whom he said3 ,go and sin no more1 and if he had disguised himself and visited her house and had then lodged a complaint against her before the police and testified against her1 taking one of his disciples with him1 ,i do not think he would have added to his reputation4 --,the ,news1 ,indianapolis1 ,indiana1 ,february #ah1 #ahib4 ,,personal ,,magnetism ,,and ,,the ,,sunday ,,question4 ,colonel ,ingersoll was a picturesque figure as he sat in his room at the ,gibson ,house yesterday1 while the balmy ,may breeze blew through the open windows1 fluttered the lace curtains and tossed the great ,infidel's snowy hair to and fro4 ,the ,colonel had come in from ,new ,york during the morning and the keen white sunlight of a lovely ,may day filled his heart with gladness4 ,after breakfast1 the man who preaches the doctrine of the ,golden ,rule and the ,gospel of ,humanity and the while chaffs the gentlemen of the clerical profession1 was in a fine humor4 ,he was busy with cards and callers1 but not too busy to admire the vase full of freshly-picked spring flowers that stood on the mantel1 and wrestled with clouds of cigar smoke1 to see which fragrance should dominate the atmosphere4 ,to a reporter of ,the ,commercial ,gazette1 the ,colonel spoke freely and interestingly upon a variety of subjects1 from personal magnetism in politics to mob rule in ,tennessee4 ,he had been interested in ,colonel ,weir's statement about the lack of gas in ,exposition ,hall1 at the #ahgf convention1 and when asked if he believed there was any truth in the stories that the gas supply had been manipulated so as to prevent the taking of a ballot after he had placed ,james ,g4 ,blaine in nomination1 he replied3 ,all ,i can say is1 that ,i heard such a story the day after the convention1 but ,i do not know whether or not it is true4 ,i have always believed1 that if a vote had been taken that evening1 ,blaine would have been nominated1 possibly not as the effect of my speech1 but the night gave time for trafficking1 and that is always dangerous in a convention4 ,i believed then that ,blaine ought to have been nominated1 and that it would have been a very wise thing for the party to have done4 ,that he was not the candidate was due partly to accident and partly to political traffic1 but that is one of the bygones1 and ,i believe there is an old saying to the effect that even the gods have no mastery over the past4 ,question4 ,do you think that eloquence is potent in a convention to set aside the practical work of politics and politicians8 ,answer4 ,i think that all the eloquence in the world cannot affect a trade if the parties to the contract stand firm1 and when people have made a political trade they are not the kind of people to be affected by eloquence4 ,the practical work of the world has very little to do with eloquence4 ,there are a great many thousand stone masons to one sculptor1 and houses and walls are not constructed by sculptors1 but by masons4 ,the daily wants of the world are supplied by the practical workers1 by men of talent1 not by men of genius1 although in the world of invention1 genius has done more1 it may be1 than the workers themselves4 ,i fancy the machinery now in the world does the work of many hundreds of millions2 that there is machinery enough now to do several times the work that could be done by all the men1 women and children of the earth4 ,the genius who invented the reaper did more work and will do more work in the harvest field than thousands of millions of men1 and the same may be said of the great engines that drive the locomotives and the ships4 ,all these marvelous machines were made by men of genius1 but they are not the men who in fact do the work4 ,this led the ,colonel to pay a brilliant tribute to the great orators of ancient and modern times1 the peer of all of them being ,cicero4 ,he dissected and defined oratory and eloquence1 and explained with picturesque figures1 wherein the difference between them lay4 ,as he mentioned the magnetism of public speakers1 he was asked as to his opinion of the value of personal magnetism in political life4 ,it may be difficult to define what personal magnetism is1 but ,i think it may be defined in this way3 ,you don't always feel like asking a man whom you meet on the street what direction you should take to reach a certain point4 ,you often allow three or four to pass1 before you meet one who seems to invite the question4 ,so1 too1 there are men by whose side you may sit for hours in the cars without venturing a remark as to the weather1 and there are others to whom you will commence talking the moment you sit down4 ,there are some men who look as if they would grant a favor1 men toward whom you are unconsciously drawn1 men who have a real human look1 men with whom you seem to be acquainted almost before you speak1 and that you really like before you know anything about them4 ,it may be that we are all electric batteries2 that we have our positive and our negative poles2 it may be that we need some influence that certain others impart1 and it may be that certain others have that which we do not need and which we do not want1 and the moment you think that1 you feel annoyed and hesitate1 and uncomfortable1 and possibly hateful4 ,i suppose there is a physical basis for everything4 ,possibly the best test of real affection between man and woman1 or of real friendship between man and woman1 is that they can sit side by side1 for hours maybe1 without speaking1 and yet be having a really social time1 each feeling that the other knows exactly what they are thinking about4 ,now1 the man you meet and whom you would not hesitate a moment to ask a favor of1 is what ,i call a magnetic man4 ,this magnetism1 or whatever it may be1 assists in making friends1 and of course is a great help to any one who deals with the public4 ,men like a magnetic man even without knowing him1 perhaps simply having seen him4 ,there are other men1 whom the moment you shake hands with them1 you feel you want no more2 you have had enough4 ,a sudden chill runs up the arm the moment your hand touches theirs1 and finally reaches the heart2 you feel1 if you had held that hand a moment longer1 an icicle would have formed in the brain4 ,such people lack personal magnetism4 ,these people now and then thaw out when you get thoroughly acquainted with them1 and you find that the ice is all on the outside1 and then you come to like them very well1 but as a rule first impressions are lasting4 ,magnetism is what you might call the climate of a man4 ,some men1 and some women1 look like a perfect ,june day1 and there are others who1 while the look quite smiling1 yet you feel that the sky is becoming overcast1 and the signs all point to an early storm4 ,there are people who are autumnal--that is to say1 generous4 ,they have had their harvest1 and have plenty to spare4 ,others look like the end of an exceedingly hard winter--between the hay and grass1 the hay mostly gone and the grass not yet come up4 ,so you will see that ,i think a great deal of this thing that is called magnetism4 ,as ,i said1 there are good people who are not magnetic1 but ,i do not care to make an ,arctic expedition for the purpose of discovering the north pole of their character4 ,i would rather stay with those who make me feel comfortable at the first4 ,from personal magnetism to the lynching ,saturday morning down at ,nashville1 ,tennessee1 was a far cry1 but when ,colonel ,ingersoll was asked what he thought of mob law1 whether there was any extenuation1 any propriety and moral effect resultant from it1 he quickly answered3 ,i do not believe in mob law at any time1 among any people4 ,i believe in justice being meted out in accordance with the forms of law4 ,if a community violates that law1 why should not the individual8 ,the example is bad4 ,besides all that1 no punishment inflicted by a mob tends to prevent the commission of crime4 ,horrible punishment hardens the community1 and that in itself produces more crime4 ,there seems to be a sort of fascination in frightful punishments1 but1 to say the least of it1 all these things demoralize the community4 ,in some countries1 you know1 they whip people for petty offences4 ,the whipping1 however1 does no good1 and on the other hand it does harm2 it hardens those who administer the punishment and those who witness it1 and it degrades those who receive it4 ,there will be but little charity in the world1 and but little progress until men see clearly that there is no chance in the world of conduct any more than in the physical world4 ,back of every act and dream and thought and desire and virtue and crime is the efficient cause4 ,if you wish to change mankind1 you must change the conditions4 ,there should be no such thing as punishment4 ,we should endeavor to reform men1 and those who cannot be reformed should be placed where they cannot injure their fellows4 ,the ,state should never take revenge any more than the community should form itself into a mob and take revenge4 ,this does harm1 not good4 ,the time will come when the world will no more think of sending men to the penitentiary for stealing1 as a punishment1 that it will for sending a man to the penitentiary because he has consumption4 ,when that time comes1 the object will be to reform men2 to prevent crime instead of punishing it1 and the object then will be to make the conditions such that honest people will be the result1 but as long as hundreds of thousands of human beings live in tenements1 as long as babes are raised in gutters1 as long as competition is so sharp that hundreds of thousands must of necessity be failures1 just so long as society gets down on its knees before the great and successful thieves1 before the millionaire thieves1 just so long will it have to fill the jails and prisons with the little thieves4 ,when the good time comes1 men will not be judged by the money they have accumulated1 but by the uses they make of it4 ,so men will be judged1 not according to their intelligence1 but by what they are endeavoring to accomplish with their intelligence4 ,in other words1 the time will come when character will rise above all4 ,there is a great line in ,shakespeare that ,i have often quoted1 and that cannot be quoted too often3 ,there is no darkness but ignorance4 ,let the world set itself to work to dissipate this darkness2 let us flood the world with intellectual light4 ,this cannot be accomplished by mobs or lynchers4 ,it must be done by the noblest1 by the greatest1 and by the best4 ,the conversation shifting around to the ,sunday question2 the opening of the ,world's ,fair on ,sunday1 the attacks of the pulpit upon the ,sunday newspapers1 the opening of parks and museums and libraries on ,sunday1 ,colonel ,ingersoll waxed eloquent1 and in answer to many questions uttered these paragraphs3 ,of course1 people will think that ,i have some prejudice against the parsons1 but really ,i think the newspaper press is of far more importance in the world than the pulpit4 ,if ,i should admit in a kind of burst of generosity1 and simply for the sake of making a point1 that the pulpit can do some good1 how much can it do without the aid of the press8 ,here is a parson preaching to a few ladies and enough men1 it may be1 to pass the contribution box1 and all he says dies within the four walls of that church4 ,how many ministers would it take to reform the world1 provided ,i again admit in a burst of generosity1 that there is any reforming power in what they preach1 working along that line8 ,the ,sunday newspaper1 ,i think1 is the best of any day in the week4 ,that paper keeps hundreds and thousands at home4 ,you can find in it information about almost everything in the world4 ,one of the great ,sunday papers will keep a family busy reading almost all day4 ,now1 ,i do not wonder that the ministers are so opposed to the ,sunday newspaper1 and so they are opposed to anything calculated to decrease the attendance at church4 ,why1 they want all the parks1 all the museums1 all the libraries closed on ,sunday1 and they want the ,world's ,fair closed on ,sunday4 ,now1 ,i am in favor of ,sunday2 in fact1 ,i am perfectly willing to have two of them a week1 but ,i want ,sunday as a day of recreation and pleasure4 ,the fact is we ought not to work hard enough during the week to require a day of rest4 ,every day ought to be so arranged that there would be time for rest from the labor of that day4 ,sunday is a good day to get business out of your mind1 to forget the ledger and the docket and the ticker1 to forget profits and losses1 and enjoy yourself4 ,it is a good day to go to the art museums1 to look at pictures and statues and beautiful things1 so that you may feel that there is something in this world besides money and mud4 ,it is a good day1 is ,sunday1 to go to the libraries and spend a little time with the great and splendid dead1 and to go to the cemetery and think of those who are sleeping there1 and to give a little thought to the time when you1 too1 like them1 will fall asleep4 ,i think it is a good day for almost anything except going to church4 ,there is no need of that2 everybody knows the story1 and if a man has worked hard all the week1 you can hardly call it recreation if he goes to church ,sunday and hears that his chances are ninety-nine in a hundred in favor of being eternally damned4 ,so it is ,i am in favor of having the ,world's ,fair open on ,sunday4 ,it will be a good day to look at the best the world has produced2 a good day to leave the saloons and commune for a little while with the mighty spirits that have glorified this world4 ,sunday is a good day to leave the churches1 where they teach that man has become totally depraved1 and look at the glorious things that have been wrought by these depraved beings4 ,besides all this1 it is the day of days for the working man and working woman1 for those who have to work all the week4 ,in ,new ,york an attempt was made to open the ,metropolitan ,museum of ,art on ,sunday1 and the pious people opposed it4 ,they thought it would interfere with the joy of heaven if people were seen in the park enjoying themselves on ,sunday1 and they also held that nobody would visit the ,museum if it were opened on ,sunday2 that the common people had no love for pictures and statues and cared nothing about art4 ,the doors were opened1 and it was demonstrated that the poor people1 the toilers and workers1 did want to see such things on ,sunday1 and now more people visit the ,museum on ,sunday than on all the other days of the week put together4 ,the same is true of the public libraries4 ,there is something to me infinitely pharisaical1 hypocritical and farcical in this ,sunday nonsense4 ,the rich people who favor keeping ,sunday holy1 have their coachman drive them to church and wait outside until the services end4 ,what do they care about the coachman's soul8 ,while they are at church their cooks are busy at home getting dinner ready4 ,what do they care for the souls of cooks8 ,the whole thing is pretence1 and nothing but pretence4 ,it is the instinct of business4 ,it is the competition of the gospel shop with other shops and places of resort4 ,the ministers1 of course1 are opposed to all shows except their own1 for they know that very few will come to see or hear them and the choice must be the church or nothing4 ,i do not believe that one day can be more holy than another unless more joyous than another4 ,the holiest day is the happiest day-- the day on which wives and children and men are happiest4 ,in that sense a day can be holy4 ,our idea of the ,sabbath is from the ,puritans1 and they imagined that a man has to be miserable in order to excite the love of ,god4 ,we have outgrown the old ,new ,england ,sabbath--the old ,scotch horror4 ,the ,germans have helped us and have set a splendid example4 ,i do not see how a poor workingman can go to church for recreation--,i mean an orthodox church4 ,a man who has hell here cannot be benefitted by being assured that he is likely to have hell hereafter4 ,the whole business ,i hold in perfect abhorrence4 ,they tell us that ,god will not prosper us unless we observe the ,sabbath4 ,the ,jews kept the ,sabbath and yet ,jehovah deserted them1 and they are a people without a nation4 ,the ,scotch kept ,sunday2 they are not independent4 ,the ,french never kept ,sunday1 and yet they are the most prosperous nation in ,europe4 --,commercial ,gazette1 ,cincinnati1 ,ohio1 ,may #b1 #ahib4 ,,authors4 ,question4 ,who1 in your opinion1 is the greatest novelist who has written in the ,english language8 ,answer4 ,the greatest novelist1 in my opinion1 who has ever written in the ,english language1 was ,charles ,dickens4 ,he was the greatest observer since ,shakespeare4 ,he had the eyes that see1 the ears that really hear4 ,i place him above ,thackeray4 ,dickens wrote for the home1 for the great public4 ,thackeray wrote for the clubs4 ,the greatest novel in our language--and it may be in any other--is1 according to my ideas1 ,a ,tale of ,two ,cities4 ,in that1 are philosophy1 pathos1 self-sacrifice1 wit1 humor1 the grotesque and the tragic4 ,i think it is the most artistic novel that ,i have read4 ,the creations of ,dickens' brain have become the citizens of the world4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,american writers8 ,answer4 ,i think ,emerson was a fine writer1 and he did this world a great deal of good1 but ,i do not class him with the first4 ,some of his poetry is wonderfully good and in it are some of the deepest and most beautiful lines4 ,i think he was a poet rather than a philosopher4 ,his doctrine of compensation would be delightful if it had the facts to support it4 ,of course1 ,hawthorne was a great writer4 ,his style is a little monotonous1 but the matter is good4 ,the ,marble ,faun is by far his best effort4 ,i shall always regret that ,hawthorne wrote the life of ,franklin ,pierce4 ,walt ,whitman will hold a high place among ,american writers4 ,his poem on the death of ,lincoln1 entitled ,when ,lilacs ,last in the ,dooryard ,bloom'd1 is the greatest ever written on this continent4 ,he was a natural poet and wrote lines worthy of ,america4 ,he was the poet of democracy and individuality1 and of liberty4 ,he was worthy of the great ,republic4 ,question4 ,what about ,henry ,george's books8 ,answer4 ,henry ,george wrote a wonderful book and one that arrested the attention of the world--one of the greatest books of the century4 ,while ,i do not believe in his destructive theories1 ,i gladly pay a tribute to his sincerity and his genius4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,bellamy8 ,answer4 ,i do not think what is called nationalism of the ,bellamy kind is making any particular progress in this country4 ,we are believers in individual independence1 and will be1 ,i hope1 forever4 ,boston was at one time the literary center of the country1 but the best writers are not living here now4 ,the best novelists of our country are not far from ,boston4 ,edgar ,fawcett lives in ,new ,york4 ,howells was born1 ,i believe1 in ,ohio1 and ,julian ,hawthorne lives in ,new ,jersey or in ,long ,island4 ,among the poets1 ,james ,whitcomb ,riley is a native of ,indiana1 and he has written some of the daintiest and sweetest things in ,american literature4 ,edgar ,fawcett is a great poet4 ,his ,magic ,flower is as beautiful as anything ,tennyson has ever written4 ,eugene ,field of ,chicago1 has written some charming things1 natural and touching4 ,westward the star of literature takes its course4 --,the ,star1 ,kansas ,city1 ,mo41 ,may #bf1 #ahib4 ,,inebriety499 99 ,published from notes found among ,colonel ,ingersoll's papers1 evidently written soon after the discovery of the ,keeley ,cure4 ,question4 ,do you consider inebriety a disease1 or the result of diseased conditions8 ,answer4 ,i believe that by a long and continuous use of stimulants1 the system gets in such a condition that it imperatively demands not only the usual1 but an increased stimulant4 ,after a time1 every nerve becomes hungry1 and there is in the body of the man a cry1 coming from every nerve1 for nourishment4 ,there is a kind of famine1 and unless the want is supplied1 insanity is the result4 ,this hunger of the nerves drowns the voice of reason--cares nothing for argument--nothing for experience--nothing for the sufferings of others--nothing for anything1 except for the food it requires4 ,words are wasted1 advice is of no possible use1 argument is like reasoning with the dead4 ,the man has lost the control of his will --it has been won over to the side of the nerves4 ,he imagines that if the nerves are once satisfied he can then resume the control of himself4 ,of course1 this is a mistake1 and the more the nerves are satisfied1 the more imperative is their demand4 ,arguments are not of the slightest force4 ,the knowledge--the conviction--that the course pursued is wrong1 has no effect4 ,the man is in the grasp of appetite4 ,he is like a ship at the mercy of wind and wave and tide4 ,the fact that the needle of the compass points to the north has no effect--the compass is not a force--it cannot battle with the wind and tide--and so1 in spite of the fact that the needle points to the north1 the ship is stranded on the rocks4 ,so the fact that the man knows that he should not drink has not the slightest effect upon him4 ,the sophistry of passion outweighs all that reason can urge4 ,in other words1 the man is the victim of disease1 and until the disease is arrested1 his will is not his own4 ,he may wish to reform1 but wish is not will4 ,he knows all of the arguments in favor of temperance--he knows all about the distress of wife and child--all about the loss of reputation and character--all about the chasm toward which he is drifting--and yet1 not being the master of himself1 he goes with the tide4 ,for thousands of years society has sought to do away with inebriety by argument1 by example1 by law2 and yet millions and millions have been carried away and countless thousands have become victims of alcohol4 ,in this contest words have always been worthless1 for the reason that no argument can benefit a man who has lost control of himself4 ,question4 ,as a lawyer1 will you express an opinion as to the moral and legal responsibility of a victim of alcoholism8 ,answer4 ,personally1 ,i regard the moral and legal responsibility of all persons as being exactly the same4 ,all persons do as they must4 ,if you wish to change the conduct of an individual you must change his conditions--otherwise his actions will remain the same4 ,we are beginning to find that there is no effect without a cause1 and that the conduct of individuals is not an exception to this law4 ,every hope1 every fear1 every dream1 every virtue1 every crime1 has behind it an efficient cause4 ,men do neither right nor wrong by chance4 ,in the world of fact and in the world of conduct1 as well as in the world of imagination1 there is no room1 no place1 for chance4 ,question4 ,in the case of an inebriate who has committed a crime1 what do you think of the common judicial opinion that such a criminal is as deserving of punishment as a person not inebriated8 ,answer4 ,i see no difference4 ,believing as ,i do that all persons act as they must1 it makes not the slightest difference whether the person so acting is what we call inebriated1 or sane1 or insane --he acts as he must4 ,there should be no such thing as punishment4 ,society should protect itself by such means as intelligence and humanity may suggest1 but the idea of punishment is barbarous4 ,no man ever was1 no man ever will be1 made better by punishment4 ,society should have two objects in view3 ,first1 the defence of itself1 and second1 the reformation of the so-called criminal4 ,the world has gone on fining1 imprisoning1 torturing and killing the victims of condition and circumstance1 and condition and circumstance have gone on producing the same kind of men and women year after year and century after century--and all this is so completely within the control of cause and effect1 within the scope and jurisdiction of universal law1 that we can prophesy the number of criminals for the next year--the thieves and robbers and murderers --with almost absolute certainty4 ,there are just so many mistakes committed every year--so many crimes --so many heartless and foolish things done--and it does not seem to be--at least by the present methods--possible to increase or decrease the number4 ,we have thousands and thousands of pulpits1 and thousands of moralists1 and countless talkers and advisers1 but all these sermons1 and all the advice1 and all the talk1 seem utterly powerless in the presence of cause and effect4 ,mothers may pray1 wives may weep1 children may starve1 but the great procession moves on4 ,for thousands of years the world endeavored to save itself from disease by ceremonies1 by genuflections1 by prayers1 by an appeal to the charity and mercy of heaven--but the diseases flourished and the graveyards became populous1 and all the ceremonies and all the prayers were without the slightest effect4 ,we must at last recognize the fact1 that not only life1 but conduct1 has a physical basis4 ,we must at last recognize the fact that virtue and vice1 genius and stupidity1 are born of certain conditions4 ,question4 ,in which way do you think the reformation or reconstruction of the inebriate is to be effected--by punishment1 by moral suasion1 by seclusion1 or by medical treatment8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 punishment simply increases the disease4 ,the victim1 without being able to give the reasons1 feels that punishment is unjust1 and thus feeling1 the effect of the punishment cannot be good4 ,you might as well punish a man for having the consumption which he inherited from his parents1 or for having a contagious disease which was given to him without his fault1 as to punish him for drunkenness4 ,no one wishes to be unhappy--no one wishes to destroy his own well-being4 ,all persons prefer happiness to unhappiness1 and success to failure1 ,consequently1 you might as well punish a man for being unhappy1 and thus increase his unhappiness1 as to punish him for drunkenness4 ,in neither case is he responsible for what he suffers4 ,neither can you cure this man by what is called moral suasion4 ,moral suasion1 if it amounts to anything1 is the force of argument --that is to say1 the result of presenting the facts to the victim4 ,now1 of all persons in the world1 the victim knows the facts4 ,he knows not only the effect upon those who love him1 but the effect upon himself4 ,there are no words that can add to his vivid appreciation of the situation4 ,there is no language so eloquent as the sufferings of his wife and children4 ,all these things the drunkard knows1 and knows perfectly1 and knows as well as any other human being can know4 ,at the same time1 he feels that the tide and current of passion are beyond his power4 ,he feels that he cannot row against the stream4 ,there is but one way1 and that is1 to treat the drunkard as the victim of a disease--treat him precisely as you would a man with a fever1 as a man suffering from smallpox1 or with some form of indigestion4 ,it is impossible to talk a man out of consumption1 or to reason him out of typhoid fever4 ,you may tell him that he ought not to die1 that he ought to take into consideration the condition in which he would leave his wife4 ,you may talk to him about his children--the necessity of their being fed and educated --but all this will have nothing to do with the progress of the disease4 ,the man does not wish to die--he wishes to live--and yet1 there will come a time in his disease when even that wish to live loses its power to will1 and the man drifts away on the tide1 careless of life or death4 ,so it is with drink4 ,every nerve asks for a stimulant4 ,every drop of blood cries out for assistance1 and in spite of all argument1 in spite of all knowledge1 in this famine of the nerves1 a man loses the power of will4 ,reason abdicates the throne1 and hunger takes its place4 ,question4 ,will you state your reasons for your belief8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 ,i will give a reason for my unbelief in what is called moral suasion and in legislation4 ,as ,i said before1 for thousands and thousands of years1 fathers and mothers and daughters and sisters and brothers have been endeavoring to prevent the ones they love from drink1 and yet1 in spite of everything1 millions have gone on and filled at last a drunkard's grave4 ,so1 societies have been formed all over the world4 ,but the consumption of ardent spirits has steadily increased4 ,laws have been passed in nearly all the nations of the world upon the subject1 and these laws1 so far as ,i can see1 have done but little1 if any1 good4 ,and the same old question is upon us now3 ,what shall be done with the victims of drink8 ,there have been probably many instances in which men have signed the pledge and have reformed4 ,i do not say that it is not possible to reform many men1 in certain stages1 by moral suasion4 ,possibly1 many men can be reformed in certain stages1 by law2 but the per cent4 is so small that1 in spite of that per cent41 the average increases4 ,for these reasons1 ,i have lost confidence in legislation and in moral suasion4 ,i do not say what legislation may do by way of prevention1 or what moral suasion may do in the same direction1 but ,i do say that after man have become the victims of alcohol1 advice and law seem to have lost their force4 ,i believe that science is to become the savior of mankind4 ,in other words1 every appetite1 every excess1 has a physical basis1 and if we only knew enough of the human system--of the tides and currents of thought and will and wish--enough of the storms of passion--if we only knew how the brain acts and operates--if we only knew the relation between blood and thought1 between thought and act--if we only knew the conditions of conduct1 then we could1 through science1 control the passions of the human race4 ,when ,i first heard of the cure of inebriety through scientific means1 ,i felt that the morning star had risen in the east--,i felt that at last we were finding solid ground4 ,i did not accept--being of a skeptical turn of mind--all that ,i heard as true4 ,i preferred to hope1 and wait4 ,i have waited1 until ,i have seen men1 the victims of alcohol1 in the very gutter of disgrace and despair1 lifted from the mire1 rescued from the famine of desire1 from the grasp of appetite4 ,i have seen them suddenly become men--masters and monarchs of themselves4 ,,miracles1 ,,theosophy ,,and ,,spiritualism4 ,question4 ,do you believe that there is such a thing as a miracle1 or that there has ever been8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,locke was in the habit of saying3 ,define your terms4 ,so the first question is1 ,what is a miracle8 ,if it is something wonderful1 unusual1 inexplicable1 then there have been many miracles4 ,if you mean simply that which is inexplicable1 then the world is filled with miracles2 but if you mean by a miracle1 something contrary to the facts in nature1 then it seems to me that the miracle must be admitted to be an impossibility4 ,it is like twice two are eleven in mathematics4 ,if1 again1 we take the ground of some of the more advanced clergy1 that a miracle is in accordance with the facts in nature1 but with facts unknown to man1 then we are compelled to say that a miracle is performed by a divine sleight-of-hand2 as1 for instance1 that our senses are deceived2 or1 that it is perfectly simple to this higher intelligence1 while inexplicable to us4 ,if we give this explanation1 then man has been imposed upon by a superior intelligence4 ,it is as though one acquainted with the sciences--with the action of electricity--should excite the wonder of savages by sending messages to his partner4 ,the savage would say1 ,a miracle2 but the one who sent the message would say1 ,there is no miracle2 it is in accordance with facts in nature unknown to you4 ,so that1 after all1 the word miracle grows in the soil of ignorance4 ,the question arises whether a superior intelligence ought to impose upon the inferior4 ,i believe there was a ,french saint who had his head cut off by robbers1 and this saint1 after the robbers went away1 got up1 took his head under his arm and went on his way until he found friends to set it on right4 ,a thing like this1 if it really happened1 was a miracle4 ,so it may be said that nothing is much more miraculous than the fact that intelligent men believe in miracles4 ,if we read in the annals of ,china that several thousand years ago five thousand people were fed on one sandwich1 and that several sandwiches were left over after the feast1 there are few intelligent men--except1 it may be1 the editors of religious weeklies--who would credit the statement4 ,but many intelligent people1 reading a like story in the ,hebrew1 or in the ,greek1 or in a mistranslation from either of these languages1 accept the story without a doubt4 ,so if we should find in the records of the ,indians that a celebrated medicine-man of their tribe used to induce devils to leave crazy people and take up their abode in wild swine1 very few people would believe the story4 ,i believe it is true that the priest of one religion has never had the slightest confidence in the priest of any other religion4 ,my own opinion is1 that nature is just as wonderful one time as another2 that that which occurs to-day is just as miraculous as anything that ever happened2 that nothing is more wonderful than that we live--that we think--that we convey our thoughts by speech1 by gestures1 by pictures4 ,nothing is more wonderful than the growth of grass--the production of seed--the bud1 the blossom and the fruit4 ,in other words1 we are surrounded by the inexplicable4 ,all that happens in conformity with what we know1 we call natural2 and that which is said to have happened1 not in conformity with what we know1 we say is wonderful2 and that which we believe to have happened contrary to what we know1 we call the miraculous4 ,i think the truth is1 that nothing ever happened except in a natural way2 that behind every effect has been an efficient cause1 and that this wondrous procession of causes and effects has never been1 and never will be1 broken4 ,in other words1 there is nothing superior to the universe--nothing that can interfere with this procession of causes and effects4 ,i believe in no miracles in the theological sense4 ,my opinion is that the universe is1 forever has been1 and forever will be1 perfectly natural4 ,whenever a religion has been founded among barbarians and ignorant people1 the founder has appealed to miracle as a kind of credential --as an evidence that he is in partnership with some higher power4 ,the credulity of savagery made this easy4 ,but at last we have discovered that there is no necessary relation between the miraculous and the moral4 ,whenever a man's reason is developed to that point that he sees the reasonableness of a thing1 he needs no miracle to convince him4 ,it is only ignorance or cunning that appeals to the miraculous4 ,there is another thing1 and that is this3 ,truth relies upon itself --that is to say1 upon the perceived relation between itself and all other truths4 ,if you tell the facts1 you need not appeal to a miracle4 ,it is only a mistake or a falsehood1 that needs to be propped and buttressed by wonders and miracles4 ,question4 ,what is your explanation of the miracles referred to in the ,old and ,new ,testaments8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 a miracle cannot be explained4 ,if it is a real miracle1 there is no explanation4 ,if it can be explained1 then the miracle disappears1 and the thing was done in accordance with the facts and forces of nature4 ,in a time when not one it may be in thousands could read or write1 when language was rude1 and when the signs by which thoughts were conveyed were few and inadequate1 it was very easy to make mistakes1 and nothing is more natural than for a mistake to grow into a miracle4 ,in an ignorant age1 history for the most part depended upon memory4 ,it was handed down from the old in their dotage1 to the young without judgment4 ,the old always thought that the early days were wonderful--that the world was wearing out because they were4 ,the past looked at through the haze of memory1 became exaggerated1 gigantic4 ,their fathers were stronger than they1 and their grandfathers far superior to their fathers1 and so on until they reached men who had the habit of living about a thousand years4 ,in my judgment1 everything in the ,old ,testament contrary to the experience of the civilized world1 is false4 ,i do not say that those who told the stories knew that they were false1 or that those who wrote them suspected that they were not true4 ,thousands and thousands of lies are told by honest stupidity and believed by innocent credulity4 ,then again1 cunning takes advantage of ignorance1 and so far as ,i know1 though all the history of the world a good many people have endeavored to make a living without work4 ,i am perfectly convinced of the integrity of nature--that the elements are eternally the same--that the chemical affinities and hatreds know no shadow of turning--that just so many atoms of one kind combine with so many atoms of another1 and that the relative numbers have never changed and never will change4 ,i am satisfied that the attraction of gravitation is a permanent institution2 that the laws of motion have been the same that they forever will be4 ,there is no chance1 there is no caprice4 ,behind every effect is a cause1 and every effect must in its turn become a cause1 and only that is produced which a cause of necessity produces4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,madame ,blavatsky and her school of ,theosophists8 ,do you believe ,madame ,blavatsky does or has done the wonderful things related of her8 ,have you seen or known of any ,theosophical or esoteric marvels8 ,answer4 ,i think wonders are about the same in this country that they are in ,india1 and nothing appears more likely to me simply because it is surrounded with the mist of antiquity4 ,in my judgment1 ,madame ,blavatsky has never done any wonderful things--that is to say1 anything not in perfect accordance with the facts of nature4 ,i know nothing of esoteric marvels4 ,in one sense1 everything that exists is a marvel1 and the probability is that if we knew the history of one grain of sand we would know the history of the universe4 ,i regard the universe as a unit4 ,everything that happens is only a different aspect of that unit4 ,there is no room for the marvelous--there is no space in which it can operate--there is no fulcrum for its lever4 ,the universe is already occupied with the natural4 ,the ground is all taken4 ,it may be that all these people are perfectly honest1 and imagine that they have had wonderful experiences4 ,i know but little of the ,theosophists--but little of the ,spiritualists4 ,it has always seemed to me that the messages received by ,spiritualists are remarkably unimportant--that they tell us but little about the other world1 and just as little about this--that if all the messages supposed to have come from angelic lips1 or spiritual lips1 were destroyed1 certainly the literature of the world would lose but little4 ,some of these people are exceedingly intelligent1 and whenever they say any good thing1 ,i imagine that it was produced in their brain1 and that it came from no other world4 ,i have no right to pass upon their honesty4 ,most of them may be sincere4 ,it may be that all the founders of religions have really supposed themselves to be inspired--believed that they held conversations with angels and ,gods4 ,it seems to be easy for some people to get in such a frame of mind that their thoughts become realities1 their dreams substances1 and their very hopes palpable4 ,personally1 ,i have no sort of confidence in these messages from the other world4 ,there may be mesmeric forces--there may be an odic force4 ,it may be that some people can tell of what another is thinking4 ,i have seen no such people--at least ,i am not acquainted with them--and my own opinion is that no such persons exist4 ,question4 ,do you believe the spirits of the dead come back to earth8 ,answer4 ,i do not4 ,i do not say that the spirits do not come back4 ,i simply say that ,i know nothing on the subject4 ,i do not believe in such spirits1 simply for the reason that ,i have no evidence upon which to base such a belief4 ,i do not say there are no such spirits1 for the reason that my knowledge is limited1 and ,i know of no way of demonstrating the non-existence of spirits4 ,it may be that man lives forever1 and it may be that what we call life ends with what we call death4 ,i have had no experience beyond the grave1 and very little back of birth4 ,consequently1 ,i cannot say that ,i have a belief on this subject4 ,i can simply say that ,i have no knowledge on this subject1 and know of no fact in nature that ,i would use as the corner-stone of a belief4 ,question4 ,do you believe in the resurrection of the body8 ,answer4 ,my answer to that is about the same as to the other question4 ,i do not believe in the resurrection of the body4 ,it seems to me an exceedingly absurd belief--and yet ,i do not know4 ,i am told1 and ,i suppose ,i believe1 that the atoms that are in me have been in many other people1 and in many other forms of life1 and ,i suppose at death the atoms forming my body go back to the earth and are used in countless forms4 ,these facts1 or what ,i suppose to be facts1 render a belief in the resurrection of the body impossible to me4 ,we get atoms to support our body from what we eat4 ,now1 if a cannibal should eat a missionary1 and certain atoms belonging to the missionary should be used by the cannibal in his body1 and the cannibal should then die while the atoms of the missionary formed part of his flesh1 to whom would these atoms belong in the morning of the resurrection8 ,then again1 science teaches us that there is a kind of balance between animal and vegetable life1 and that probably all men and all animals have been trees1 and all trees have been animals2 so that the probability is that the atoms that are now in us have been1 as ,i said in the first place1 in millions of other people4 ,now1 if this be so1 there cannot be atoms enough in the morning of the resurrection1 because1 if the atoms are given to the first men1 that belonged to the first men when they died1 there will certainly be no atoms for the last men4 ,consequently1 ,i am compelled to say that ,i do not believe in the resurrection of the body499 99 ,from notes found among ,colonel ,ingersoll's papers4 ,,tolstoy ,,and ,,literature4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,count ,leo ,tolstoy8 ,answer4 ,i have read ,tolstoy4 ,he is a curious mixture of simplicity and philosophy4 ,he seems to have been carried away by his conception of religion4 ,he is a non-resistant to such a degree that he asserts that he would not1 if attacked1 use violence to preserve his own life or the life of a child4 ,upon this question he is undoubtedly insane4 ,so he is trying to live the life of a peasant and doing without the comforts of life6 ,this is not progress4 ,civilization should not endeavor to bring about equality by making the rich poor or the comfortable miserable4 ,this will not add to the pleasures of the rich1 neither will it feed the hungry1 not clothe the naked4 ,the civilized wealthy should endeavor to help the needy1 and help them in a sensible way1 not through charity1 but through industry2 through giving them opportunities to take care of themselves4 ,i do not believe in the equality that is to be reached by pulling the successful down1 but ,i do believe in civilization that tends to raise the fallen and assists those in need4 ,should we all follow ,tolstoy's example and live according to his philosophy the world would go back to barbarism2 art would be lost2 that which elevates and refines would be destroyed2 the voice of music would become silent1 and man would be satisfied with a rag1 a hut1 a crust4 ,we do not want the equality of savages4 ,no1 in civilization there must be differences1 because there is a constant movement forward4 ,the human race cannot advance in line4 ,there will be pioneers1 there will be the great army1 and there will be countless stragglers4 ,it is not necessary for the whole army to go back to the stragglers1 it is better that the army should march forward toward the pioneers4 ,it may be that the sale of ,tolstoy's works is on the increase in ,america1 but certainly the principles of ,tolstoy are gaining no foothold here4 ,we are not a nation of non-resistants4 ,we believe in defending our homes4 ,nothing can exceed the insanity of non- resistance4 ,this doctrine leaves virtue naked and clothes vice in armor2 it gives every weapon to the wrong and takes every shield from the right4 ,i believe that goodness has the right of self- defence4 ,as a matter of fact1 vice should be left naked and virtue should have all the weapons4 ,the good should not be a flock of sheep at the mercy of every wolf4 ,so1 ,i do not accept ,tolstoy's theory of equality as a sensible solution of the labor problem4 ,the hope of this world is that men will become civilized to that degree that they cannot be happy while they know that thousands of their fellow-men are miserable4 ,the time will come when the man who dwells in a palace will not be happy if ,want sits upon the steps at his door4 ,no matter how well he is clothed himself he will not enjoy his robes if he sees others in rags1 and the time will come when the intellect of this world will be directed by the heart of this world1 and when men of genius and power will do what they can for the benefit of their fellow- men4 ,all this is to come through civilization1 through experience4 ,men1 after a time1 will find the worthlessness of great wealth2 they will find it is not splendid to excite envy in others4 ,so1 too1 they will find that the happiness of the human race is so interdependent and so interwoven1 that finally the interest of humanity will be the interest of the individual4 ,i know that at present the lives of many millions are practically without value1 but in my judgment1 the world is growing a little better every day4 ,on the average1 men have more comforts1 better clothes1 better food1 more books and more of the luxuries of life than ever before4 ,question4 ,it is said that properly to appreciate ,rousseau1 ,voltaire1 ,hugo and other ,french classics1 a thorough knowledge of the ,french language is necessary4 ,what is your opinion8 ,answer4 ,no2 to say that a knowledge of ,french is necessary in order to appreciate ,voltaire or ,hugo is nonsensical4 ,for a student anxious to study the works of these masters1 to set to work to learn the language of the writers would be like my building a flight of stairs to go down to supper4 ,the stairs are already there4 ,some other person built them for me and others who choose to use them4 ,men have spent their lives in the study of the ,french and ,english1 and have given us ,voltaire1 ,hugo and all other works of ,french classics1 perfect in sentiment and construction as the originals are4 ,macaulay was a great linguist1 but he wrote no better than ,shakespeare1 and ,burns wrote perfect ,english1 though virtually uneducated4 ,good writing is a matter of genius and heart2 reading is application and judgment4 ,i am of the opinion that ,wilbur's ,english translation of ,les ,miserables is better than ,hugo's original1 as a literary masterpiece4 ,what a grand novel it is6 ,what characters1 ,jean ,valjean and ,javert6 ,question4 ,which in your opinion is the greatest ,english novel8 ,answer4 ,i think the greatest novel ever written in ,english is ,a ,tale of ,two ,cities1 by ,dickens4 ,it is full of philosophy2 its incidents are dramatically grouped4 ,sidney ,carton1 the hero1 is a marvelous creation and a marvelous character4 ,lucie ,manette is as delicate as the perfume of wild violets1 and cell #aje1 ,north ,tower1 and scenes enacted there1 almost touch the region occupied by ,lear4 ,there1 too1 ,mme4 ,defarge is the impersonation of the ,french ,revolution1 and the nobleman of the chateau with his fine features changed to stone1 and the messenger at ,tellson's ,bank gnawing the rust from his nails2 all there are the creations of genius1 and these children of fiction will live as long as ,imagination spreads her many-colored wings in the mind of man4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,pope8 ,answer4 ,pope6 ,alexander ,pope1 the word-carpenter1 a mechanical poet1 or stay--rather a digital poet2 that fits him best--one of those fellows who counts his fingers to see that his verse is in perfect rhythm4 ,his ,essay on ,man strikes me as being particularly defective4 ,for instance3 ,all discord1 harmony not understood1 ,all partial evil1 universal good1 from the first epistle of his ,essay on ,man4 ,anything that is evil cannot by any means be good1 and anything partial cannot be universal4 ,we see in libraries ponderous tomes labeled ,burke's ,speeches4 ,no person ever seems to read them1 but he is now regarded as being in his day a great speaker1 because now no one has pluck enough to read his speeches4 ,why1 for thirty years ,burke was known in ,parliament as the ,dinner ,bell--whenever he rose to speak1 everybody went to dinner4 --,the ,evening ,express1 ,buffalo1 ,new ,york1 ,october #f1 #ahib4 ,,woman ,,in ,,politics4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the influence of women in politics8 ,answer4 ,i think the influence of women is always good in politics1 as in everything else4 ,i think it the duty of every woman to ascertain what she can in regard to her country1 including its history1 laws and customs4 ,woman above all others is a teacher4 ,she1 above all others1 determines the character of children2 that is to say1 of men and women4 ,there is not the slightest danger of women becoming too intellectual or knowing too much4 ,neither is there any danger of men knowing too much4 ,at least1 ,i know of no men who are in immediate peril from that source4 ,i am a firm believer in the equal rights of human beings1 and no matter what ,i think as to what woman should or should not do1 she has the same right to decide for herself that ,i have to decide for myself4 ,if women wish to vote1 if they wish to take part in political matters1 if they wish to run for office1 ,i shall do nothing to interfere with their rights4 ,i most cheerfully admit that my political rights are only equal to theirs4 ,there was a time when physical force or brute strength gave pre- eminence4 ,the savage chief occupied his position by virtue of his muscle1 of his courage1 on account of the facility with which he wielded a club4 ,as long as nations depend simply upon brute force1 the man1 in time of war1 is1 of necessity1 of more importance to the nation than woman1 and as the dispute is to be settled by strength1 by force1 those who have the strength and force naturally settle it4 ,as the world becomes civilized1 intelligence slowly takes the place of force1 conscience restrains muscle1 reason enters the arena1 and the gladiator retires4 ,a little while ago the literature of the world was produced by men1 and men were not only the writers1 but the readers4 ,at that time the novels were coarse and vulgar4 ,now the readers of fiction are women1 and they demand that which they can read1 and the result is that women have become great writers4 ,the women have changed our literature1 and the change has been good4 ,in every field where woman has become a competitor of man she has either become1 or given evidence that she is to become1 his equal4 ,my own opinion is that woman is naturally the equal of man and that in time1 that is to say1 when she has had the opportunity and the training1 she will produce in the world of art as great pictures1 as great statues1 and in the world of literature as great books1 dramas and poems as man has produced or will produce4 ,there is nothing very hard to understand in the politics of a country4 ,the general principles are for the most part simple4 ,it is only in the application that the complexity arises1 and woman1 ,i think1 by nature1 is as well fitted to understand these things as man4 ,in short1 ,i have no prejudice on this subject4 ,at first1 women will be more conservative than men2 and this is natural4 ,women have1 through many generations1 acquired the habit of submission1 of acquiescence4 ,they have practiced what may be called the slave virtues--obedience1 humility--so that some time will be required for them to become accustomed to the new order of things1 to the exercise of greater freedom1 acting in accordance with perceived obligation1 independently of authority4 ,so ,i say equal rights1 equal education1 equal advantages4 ,i hope that woman will not continue to be the serf of superstition2 that she will not be the support of the church and priest2 that she will not stand for the conservation of superstition1 but that in the east of her mind the sun of progress will rise4 ,question4 ,in your lecture on ,voltaire you made a remark about the government of ministers1 and you stated that if the ministers of the city of ,new ,york had to power to make the laws most people would prefer to live in a well regulated penitentiary4 ,what do you mean by this8 ,answer4 ,well1 as a rule1 ministers are quite severe4 ,they have little patience with human failures4 ,they are taught1 and they believe and they teach1 that man is absolutely master of his own fate4 ,besides1 they are believers in the inspiration of the ,scriptures1 and the laws of the ,old ,testament are exceedingly severe4 ,nearly every offence was punished by death4 ,every offence was regarded as treason against ,jehovah4 ,in the ,pentateuch there is no pity4 ,if a man committed some offence justice was not satisfied with his punishment1 but proceeded to destroy his wife and children4 ,jehovah seemed to think that crime was in the blood2 that it was not sufficient to kill the criminal1 but to prevent future crimes you should kill his wife and babes4 ,the reading of the ,old ,testament is calculated to harden the heart1 to drive the angel of pity from the breast1 and to make man a religious savage4 ,the clergy1 as a rule1 do not take a broad and liberal view of things4 ,they judge every offence by what they consider would be the result if everybody committed the same offence4 ,they do not understand that even vice creates obstructions for itself1 and that there is something in the nature of crime the tendency of which is to defeat crime1 and ,i might add in this place that the same seems to be true of excessive virtue4 ,as a rule1 the clergy clamor with great zeal for the execution of cruel laws4 ,let me give an instance in point3 ,in the time of ,george ,,iii41 in ,england1 there were two hundred and twenty-three offences punishable with death4 ,from time to time this cruel code was changed by ,act of ,parliament1 yet no bishop sitting in the ,house of ,lords ever voted in favor of any one of these measures4 ,the bishops always voted for death1 for blood1 against mercy and against the repeal of capital punishment4 ,during all these years there were some twenty thousand or more of the established clergy1 and yet1 according to ,john ,bright1 no voice was ever raised in any ,english pulpit against the infamous criminal code4 ,another thing3 ,the orthodox clergy teach that man is totally depraved2 that his inclination is evil2 that his tendency is toward the ,devil4 ,starting from this as a foundation1 of course every clergyman believes every bad thing said of everybody else4 ,so1 when some man is charged with a crime1 the clergyman taking into consideration the fact that the man is totally depraved1 takes it for granted that he must be guilty4 ,i am not saying this for the purpose of exciting prejudice against the clergy4 ,i am simply showing what is the natural result of a certain creed1 of a belief in universal depravity1 or a belief in the power and influence of a personal ,devil4 ,if the clergy could have their own way they would endeavor to reform the world by law4 ,they would re-enact the old statutes of the ,puritans4 ,joy would be a crime4 ,love would be an offence4 ,every man with a smile on his face would be suspected1 and a dimple in the cheek would be a demonstration of depravity4 ,in the trial of a cause it is natural for a clergyman to start with the proposition1 ,the defendant is guilty2 and then he says to himself1 ,let him prove himself innocent4 ,the man who has not been poisoned with the creed starts out with the proposition1 ,the defendant is innocent2 let the ,state prove that he is guilty4 ,consequently1 ,i say that if ,i were defending a man whom ,i knew to be innocent1 ,i would not have a clergyman on the jury if ,i could help it4 --,new ,york ,advertiser1 ,december #bd1 #ahic4 ,,spiritualism4 ,question4 ,have you investigated ,spiritualism1 and what has been your experience8 ,answer4 ,a few years ago ,i paid some attention to what is called ,spiritualism1 and was present when quite mysterious things were supposed to have happened4 ,the most notable seance that ,i attended was given by ,slade1 at which slate-writing was done4 ,two slates were fastened together1 with a pencil between them1 and on opening the slates certain writing was found4 ,when the writing was done it was impossible to tell4 ,so1 ,i have been present when it was claimed that certain dead people had again clothed themselves in flesh and were again talking in the old way4 ,in one instance1 ,i think1 ,george ,washington claimed to be present4 ,on the same evening ,shakespeare put in an appearance4 ,it was hard to recognize ,shakespeare from what the spirit said1 still ,i was assured by the medium that there was no mistake as to the identity4 ,question4 ,can you offer any explanation of the extraordinary phenomena such as ,henry ,j4 ,newton has had produced at his own house under his own supervision8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 ,i don't believe that anything such as you describe has ever happened4 ,i do not believe that a medium ever passed into and out of a triple-locked iron cage4 ,neither do ,i believe that any spirits were able to throw shoes and wraps out of the cage2 neither do ,i believe that any apparitions ever rose from the floor1 or that anything you relate has ever happened4 ,the best explanation ,i can give of these wonderful occurrences is the following3 ,a little boy and girl were standing in a doorway holding hands4 ,a gentleman passing1 stopped for a moment and said to the little girl3 ,what relation is the little boy to you8 and she replied1 ,we had the same father and we had the same mother1 but ,i am not his sister and he is not my brother4 ,this at first seemed to be quite a puzzle1 but it was exceedingly plain when the answer was known3 ,the little girl lied4 ,question4 ,have you had any experience with spirit photography1 spirit physicians1 or spirit lawyers8 ,answer4 ,i was shown at one time several pictures said to be the photographs of living persons surrounded by the photographs of spirits4 ,i examined them very closely1 and ,i found evidence in the photographs themselves that they were spurious4 ,i took it for granted that light is the same everywhere1 and that it obeys the angle of incidence in all worlds and at all times4 ,in looking at the spirit photographs ,i found1 for instance1 that in the photograph of the living person the shadows fell to the right1 and that in the photographs of the ghosts1 or spirits1 supposed to have been surrounding the living person at the time the picture was taken1 the shadows did not fall in the same direction1 sometimes in the opposite direction1 never at the same angle even when the general direction was the same4 ,this demonstrated that the photographs of the spirits and of the living persons were not taken at the same time4 ,so much for photographs4 ,i have had no experience with spirit physicians4 ,i was once told by a lawyer who came to employ me in a will case1 that a certain person had made a will giving a large amount of money for the purpose of spreading the gospel of ,spiritualism1 but that the will had been lost and than an effort was then being made to find it1 and they wished me to take certain action pending the search1 and wanted my assistance4 ,i said to him3 ,if ,spiritualism be true1 why not ask the man who made the will what it was and also what has become of it4 ,if you can find that out from the departed1 ,i will gladly take a retainer in the case2 otherwise1 ,i must decline4 ,i have had no other experience with the lawyers4 ,question4 ,if you were to witness phenomena that seemed inexplicable by natural laws1 would you be inclined to favor ,spiritualism8 ,answer4 ,i would not4 ,if ,i should witness phenomena that ,i could not explain1 ,i would leave the phenomena unexplained4 ,i would not explain them because ,i did not understand them1 and say they were or are produced by spirits4 ,that is no explanation1 and1 after admitting that we do not know and that we cannot explain1 why should we proceed to explain8 ,i have seen ,mr4 ,kellar do things for which ,i cannot account4 ,why should ,i say that he has the assistance of spirits8 ,all ,i have a right to say is that ,i know nothing about how he does them4 ,so ,i am compelled to say with regard to many spiritualistic feats1 that ,i am ignorant of the ways and means4 ,at the same time1 ,i do not believe that there is anything supernatural in the universe4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of ,spiritualism and ,spiritualists8 ,answer4 ,i think the ,spiritualism of the present day is certainly in advance of the ,spiritualism of several centuries ago4 ,persons who now deny ,spiritualism and hold it in utter contempt insist that some eighteen or nineteen centuries ago it had possession of the world2 that miracles were of daily occurrence2 that demons1 devils1 fiends1 took possession of human beings1 lived in their bodies1 dominated their minds4 ,they believe1 too1 that devils took possession of the bodies of animals4 ,they also insist that a wish could multiply fish4 ,and1 curiously enough1 the ,spiritualists of our time have but little confidence in the phenomena of eighteen hundred years ago2 and1 curiously enough1 those who believe in the ,spiritualism of eighteen hundred years ago deny the ,spiritualism of to-day4 ,i think the ,spiritualists of to-day have far more evidence of their phenomena than those who believe in the wonderful things of eighteen centuries ago4 ,the ,spiritualists of to-day have living witnesses1 which is something4 ,i know a great many ,spiritualists that are exceedingly good people1 and are doing what they can to make the world better4 ,but ,i think they are mistaken4 ,question4 ,do you believe in spirit entities1 whether manifestible or not8 ,answer4 ,i believe there is such a thing as matter4 ,i believe there is a something called force4 ,the difference between force and matter ,i do not know4 ,so there is something called consciousness4 ,whether we call consciousness an entity or not makes no difference as to what it really is4 ,there is something that hears1 sees and feels1 a something that takes cognizance of what happens in what we call the outward world4 ,no matter whether we call this something matter or spirit1 it is something that we do not know1 to say the least of it1 all about4 ,we cannot understand what matter is4 ,it defies us1 and defies definitions4 ,so1 with what we call spirit1 we are in utter ignorance of what it is4 ,we have some little conception of what we mean by it1 and of what others mean1 but as to what it really is no one knows4 ,it makes no difference whether we call ourselves ,materialists or ,spiritualists1 we believe in all there is1 no matter what you call it4 ,if we call it all matter1 then we believe that matter can think and hope and dream4 ,if we call it all spirit1 then we believe that spirit has force1 that it offers a resistance2 in other words1 that it is1 in one of its aspects1 what we call matter4 ,i cannot believe that everything can be accounted for by motion or by what we call force1 because there is something that recognizes force4 ,there is something that compares1 that thinks1 that remembers2 there is something that suffers and enjoys2 there is something that each one calls himself or herself1 that is inexplicable to himself or herself1 and it makes no difference whether we call this something mind or soul1 effect or entity1 it still eludes us1 and all the words we have coined for the purpose of expressing our knowledge of this something1 after all1 express only our desire to know1 and our efforts to ascertain4 ,it may be that if we would ask some minister1 some one who has studied theology1 he would give us a perfect definition4 ,the scientists know nothing about it1 and ,i know of no one who does1 unless it be a theologian4 --,the ,globe-,democrat1 ,st4 ,louis1 ,mo41 #ahic4 ,,plays ,,and ,,players4 ,illustration3 ,chatham ,street ,theater ,chatham ,street ,theater1 ,new ,york ,city1 ,n4 ,y41 where ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll was baptized in #ahcf by his father1 the ,rev4 ,john ,ingersoll1 who temporarily preached at the theatre1 his church having been destroyed by fire4 ,question4 ,what place does the theatre hold among the arts8 ,answer4 ,nearly all the arts unite in the theatre1 and it is the result of the best1 the highest1 the most artistic1 that man can do4 ,in the first place1 there must be the dramatic poet4 ,dramatic poetry is the subtlest1 profoundest1 the most intellectual1 the most passionate and artistic of all4 ,then the stage must be prepared1 and there is work for the architect1 the painter and sculptor4 ,then the actors appear1 and they must be gifted with imagination1 with a high order of intelligence2 they must have sympathies quick and deep1 natures capable of the greatest emotion1 dominated by passion4 ,they must have impressive presence1 and all that is manly should meet and unite in the actor2 all that is womanly1 tender1 intense and admirable should be lavishly bestowed on the actress4 ,in addition to all this1 actors should have the art of being natural4 ,let me explain what ,i mean by being natural4 ,when ,i say that an actor is natural1 ,i mean that he appears to act in accordance with his ideal1 in accordance with his nature1 and that he is not an imitator or a copyist--that he is not made up of shreds and patches taken from others1 but that all he does flows from interior fountains and is consistent with his own nature1 all having in a marked degree the highest characteristics of the man4 ,that is what ,i mean by being natural4 ,the great actor must be acquainted with the heart1 must know the motives1 ends1 objects and desires that control the thoughts and acts of men4 ,he must be familiar with many people1 including the lowest and the highest1 so that he may give to others1 clothed with flesh and blood1 the characters born of the poet's brain4 ,the great actor must know the relations that exist between passion and voice1 gesture and emphasis1 expression and pose4 ,he must speak not only with his voice1 but with his body4 ,the great actor must be master of many arts4 ,then comes the musician4 ,the theatre has always been the home of music1 and this music must be appropriate2 must1 or should1 express or supplement what happens on the stage2 should furnish rest and balm for minds overwrought with tragic deeds4 ,to produce a great play1 and put it worthily upon the stage1 involves most arts1 many sciences and nearly all that is artistic1 poetic and dramatic in the mind of man4 ,question4 ,should the drama teach lessons and discuss social problems1 or should it give simply intellectual pleasure and furnish amusement8 ,answer4 ,every great play teaches many lessons and touches nearly all social problems4 ,but the great play does this by indirection4 ,every beautiful thought is a teacher2 every noble line speaks to the brain and heart4 ,beauty1 proportion1 melody suggest moral beauty1 proportion in conduct and melody in life4 ,in a great play the relations of the various characters1 their objects1 the means adopted for their accomplishment1 must suggest1 and in a certain sense solve or throw light on many social problems1 so that the drama teaches lessons1 discusses social problems and gives intellectual pleasure4 ,the stage should not be dogmatic2 neither should its object be directly to enforce a moral4 ,the great thing for the drama to do1 and the great thing it has done1 and is doing1 is to cultivate the imagination4 ,this is of the utmost importance4 ,the civilization of man depends upon the development1 not only of the intellect1 but of the imagination4 ,most crimes of violence are committed by people who are destitute of imagination4 ,people without imagination make most of the cruel and infamous creeds4 ,they were the persecutors and destroyers of their fellow-men4 ,by cultivating the imagination1 the stage becomes one of the greatest teachers4 ,it produces the climate in which the better feelings grow2 it is the home of the ideal4 ,all beautiful things tend to the civilization of man4 ,the great statues plead for proportion in life1 the great symphonies suggest the melody of conduct1 and the great plays cultivate the heart and brain4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,french drama as compared with the ,english1 morally and artistically considered8 ,answer4 ,the modern ,french drama1 so far as ,i am acquainted with it1 is a disease4 ,it deals with the abnormal4 ,it is fashioned after ,balzac4 ,it exhibits moral tumors1 mental cancers and all kinds of abnormal fungi1--excrescences4 ,everything is stood on its head2 virtue lives in the brothel2 the good are the really bad and the worst are1 after all1 the best4 ,it portrays the exceptional1 and mistakes the scum-covered bayou for the great river4 ,the ,french dramatists seem to think that the ceremony of marriage sows the seed of vice4 ,they are always conveying the idea that the virtuous are uninteresting1 rather stupid1 without sense and spirit enough to take advantage of their privilege4 ,between the greatest ,french plays and the greatest ,english plays of course there is no comparison4 ,if a ,frenchman had written the plays of ,shakespeare1 ,desdemona would have been guilty1 ,isabella would have ransomed her brother at the ,duke's price1 ,juliet would have married the ,county ,paris1 run away from him1 and joined ,romeo in ,mantua1 and ,miranda would have listened coquettishly to the words of ,caliban4 ,the ,french are exceedingly artistic4 ,they understand stage effects1 love the climax1 delight in surprises1 especially in the improbable2 but their dramatists lack sympathy and breadth of treatment4 ,they are provincial4 ,with them ,france is the world4 ,they know little of other countries4 ,their plays do not touch the universal4 ,question4 ,what are your feelings in reference to idealism on the stage8 ,answer4 ,the stage ought to be the home of the ideal2 in a word1 the imagination should have full sway4 ,the great dramatist is a creator2 he is the sovereign1 and governs his own world4 ,the realist is only a copyist4 ,he does not need genius4 ,all he wants is industry and the trick of imitation4 ,on the stage1 the real should be idealized1 the ordinary should be transfigured2 that is1 the deeper meaning of things should be given4 ,as we make music of common air1 and statues of stone1 so the great dramatist should make life burst into blossom on the stage4 ,a lot of words1 facts1 odds and ends divided into acts and scenes do not make a play4 ,these things are like old pieces of broken iron that need the heat of the furnace so that they may be moulded into shape4 ,genius is that furnace1 and in its heat and glow and flame these pieces1 these fragments1 become molten and are cast into noble and heroic forms4 ,realism degrades and impoverishes the stage4 ,question4 ,what attributes should an actor have to be really great8 ,answer4 ,intelligence1 imagination1 presence2 a mobile and impressive face2 a body that lends itself to every mood in appropriate pose1 one that is oak or willow1 at will2 self-possession2 absolute ease2 a voice capable of giving every shade of meaning and feeling1 an intuitive knowledge or perception of proportion1 and above all1 the actor should be so sincere that he loses himself in the character he portrays4 ,such an actor will grow intellectually and morally4 ,the great actor should strive to satisfy himself--to reach his own ideal4 ,question4 ,do you enjoy ,shakespeare more in the library than ,shakespeare interpreted by actors now on the boards8 ,answer4 ,i enjoy ,shakespeare everywhere4 ,i think it would give me pleasure to hear those wonderful lines spoken even by phonographs4 ,but ,shakespeare is greatest and best when grandly put upon the stage4 ,there you know the connection1 the relation1 the circumstances1 and these bring out the appropriateness and the perfect meaning of the text4 ,nobody in this country now thinks of ,hamlet without thinking of ,booth4 ,for this generation at least1 ,booth is ,hamlet4 ,it is impossible for me to read the words of ,sir ,toby without seeing the face of ,w4 ,f4 ,owen4 ,brutus is ,davenport1 ,cassius is ,lawrence ,barrett1 and ,lear will be associated always in my mind with ,edwin ,forrest4 ,lady ,macbeth is to me ,adelaide ,ristori1 the greatest actress ,i ever saw4 ,if ,i understood music perfectly1 ,i would much rather hear ,seidl's orchestra play ,tristan1 or hear ,remenyi's matchless rendition of ,schubert's ,ave ,maria1 than to read the notes4 ,most people love the theatre4 ,everything about it from stage to gallery attracts and fascinates4 ,the mysterious realm1 behind the scenes1 from which emerge kings and clowns1 villains and fools1 heroes and lovers1 and in which they disappear1 is still a fairyland4 ,as long as man is man he will enjoy the love and laughter1 the tears and rapture of the mimic world4 ,question4 ,is it because we lack men of genius or because our life is too material that no truly great ,american plays have been written8 ,answer4 ,no great play has been written since ,shakespeare2 that is1 no play has been written equal to his4 ,but there is the same reason for that in all other countries1 including ,england1 that there is in this country1 and that reason is that ,shakespeare has had no equal4 ,america has not failed because life in the ,republic is too material4 ,germany and ,france1 and1 in fact1 all other nations1 have failed in the same way4 ,in the sense in which ,i am speaking1 ,germany has produced no great play4 ,in the dramatic world ,shakespeare stands alone4 ,compared with him1 even the classic is childish4 ,there is plenty of material for plays4 ,the ,republic has lived a great play--a great poem--a most marvelous drama4 ,here1 on our soil1 have happened some of the greatest events in the history of the world4 ,all human passions have been and are in full play here1 and here as elsewhere1 can be found the tragic1 the comic1 the beautiful1 the poetic1 the tears1 the smiles1 the lamentations and the laughter that are the necessary warp and woof with which to weave the living tapestries that we call plays4 ,we are beginning4 ,we have found that ,american plays must be ,american in spirit4 ,we are tired of imitations and adaptations4 ,we want plays worthy of the great ,republic4 ,some good work has recently been done1 giving great hope for the future4 ,of course the realistic comes first2 afterward the ideal4 ,but here in ,america1 as in all other lands1 love is the eternal passion that will forever hold the stage4 ,around that everything else will move4 ,it is the sun4 ,all other passions are secondary4 ,their orbits are determined by the central force from which they receive their light and meaning4 ,love1 however1 must be kept pure4 ,the great dramatist is1 of necessity1 a believer in virtue1 in honesty1 in courage and in the nobility of human nature4 ,he must know that there are men and women that even a ,god could not corrupt2 such knowledge1 such feeling1 is the foundation1 and the only foundation1 that can support the splendid structure1 the many pillared stories and the swelling dome of the great drama4 --,the ,new ,york ,dramatic ,mirror1 ,december #bf1 #ahia4 ,,woman4 ,it takes a hundred men to make an encampment1 but one woman can make a home4 ,i not only admire woman as the most beautiful object ever created1 but ,i reverence her as the redeeming glory of humanity1 the sanctuary of all the virtues1 the pledge of all perfect qualities of heart and head4 ,it is not just or right to lay the sins of men at the feet of women4 ,it is because women are so much better than men that their faults are considered greater4 ,the one thing in this world that is constant1 the one peak that rises above all clouds1 the one window in which the light forever burns1 the one star that darkness cannot quench1 is woman's love4 ,it rises to the greatest heights1 it sinks to the lowest depths1 it forgives the most cruel injuries4 ,it is perennial of life1 and grows in every climate4 ,neither coldness nor neglect1 harshness nor cruelty1 can extinguish it4 ,a woman's love is the perfume of the heart4 ,this is the real love that subdues the earth2 the love that has wrought all the miracles of art1 that gives us music all the way from the cradle song to the grand closing symphony that bears the soul away on wings of fire4 ,a love that is greater than power1 sweeter than life and stronger than death4 ,,strikes1 ,,expansion ,,and ,,other ,,subjects4 ,question4 ,what have you to say in regard to the decision of ,judge ,billings in ,new ,orleans1 that strikes which interfere with interstate commerce1 are illegal8 ,answer4 ,as a rule1 men have a right to quit work at any time unless there is some provision to the contrary in their contracts4 ,they have not the right to prevent other men from taking their places4 ,of course ,i do not mean by this that strikers may not use persuasion and argument to prevent other men from filling their places4 ,all blacklisting and refusing to work with other men is illegal and punishable4 ,of course men may conspire to quit work1 but how is it to be proved8 ,one man can quit1 or five hundred men can quit together1 and nothing can prevent them4 ,the decisions of ,judge ,ricks and ,judge ,billings are an acknowledgment1 at least1 of the principle of public control or regulation of railroads and of commerce generally4 ,the railroads1 which run for private profit1 are public carriers1 and the public has a vested interest in them as such4 ,the same principle applies to the commerce of the country and can be dealt with by the courts in the same way4 ,it is unlikely1 however1 that ,judge ,billings' decision will have any lasting effect upon organized labor4 ,law cannot be enforced against such vast numbers of people1 especially when they have the general sympathy4 ,nearly all strikes have been illegal1 but the numbers involved have made the courts powerless4 ,question4 ,are you in favor of the annexation of ,canada8 ,answer4 ,yes1 if ,canada is4 ,we do not want that country unless that country wants us4 ,i do not believe it to the interests of ,canada to remain a province4 ,canada should either be an independent nation1 or a part of a nation4 ,now ,canada is only a province--with no career--with nothing to stimulate either patriotism or great effort4 ,yes1 ,i hope that ,canada will be annexed4 ,by all means annex the ,sandwich ,islands1 too4 ,i believe in territorial expansion4 ,a prosperous farmer wants the land next him1 and a prosperous nation ought to grow4 ,i believe that we ought to hold the key to the ,pacific and its commerce4 ,we want to be prepared at all points to defend our interests from the greed and power of ,england4 ,we are going to have a navy1 and we want that navy to be of use in protecting our interests the world over4 ,and we want interests to protect4 ,it is a splendid feeling--this feeling of growth4 ,by the annexation of these islands we open new avenues to ,american adventure1 and the tendency is to make our country greater and stronger4 ,the ,west ,indian ,islands ought to be ours1 and some day our flag will float there4 ,this country must not stop growing4 ,question4 ,is the spirit of patriotism declining in ,america8 ,answer4 ,there has been no decline in the spirit of ,american patriotism2 in fact1 it has increased rather then otherwise as the nation has grown older1 stronger1 more prosperous1 more glorious4 ,if there were occasion to demonstrate the truth of this statement it would be quickly demonstrated4 ,let an attack be made upon the ,american flag1 and you will very quickly find out how genuine is the patriotic spirit of ,americans4 ,i do not think either that there has been a decline in the celebration of the ,fourth of ,july4 ,the day is probably not celebrated with as much burning of gunpowder and shooting of fire crackers in the large cities as formerly1 but it is celebrated with as much enthusiasm as ever all through the ,west1 and the feeling of rejoicing over the anniversary of the day is as great and strong as ever4 ,the people are tired of celebrating with a great noise and ,i am glad of it4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,congress of ,religions1 to be held in ,chicago during the ,world's ,fair8 ,answer4 ,it will do good1 if they will honestly compare their creeds so that each one can see just how foolish all the rest are4 ,they ought to compare their sacred books1 and their miracles1 and their mythologies1 and if they do so they will probably see that ignorance is the mother of them all4 ,let them have a ,congress1 by all means1 and let them show how priests live on the labor of those they deceive4 ,it will do good4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,cleveland's course as to appointments has strengthened him with the people8 ,answer4 ,patronage is a two-edged sword with very little handle4 ,it takes an exceedingly clever ,president to strengthen himself by its exercise4 ,when a man is running for ,president the twenty men in every town who expect to be made postmaster are for him heart and soul4 ,only one can get the office1 and the nineteen who do not1 feel outraged1 and the lucky one is mad on account of the delay4 ,so twenty friends are lost with one place4 ,question4 ,is the ,age of ,chivalry dead8 ,answer4 ,the ,age of ,chivalry never existed except in the imagination4 ,the ,age of ,chivalry was the age of cowardice and crime4 ,there is more chivalry to-day than ever4 ,men have a better1 a clearer idea of justice1 and pay their debts better1 and treat their wives and children better than ever before4 ,the higher and better qualities of the soul have more to do with the average life4 ,to-day men have greater admiration and respect for women1 greater regard for the social and domestic obligations than their fathers had4 ,question4 ,what led you to begin lecturing on your present subject1 and what was your first lecture8 ,answer4 ,my first lecture was entitled ,progress4 ,i began lecturing because ,i thought the creeds of the orthodox church false and horrible1 and because ,i thought the ,bible cruel and absurd1 and because ,i like intellectual liberty4 --,new ,york1 ,may #e1 #ahic4 ,,sunday ,a ,,day ,,of ,,pleasure4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the religious spirit that seeks to regulate by legislation the manner in which the people of this country shall spend their ,sundays8 ,answer4 ,the church is not willing to stand alone1 not willing to base its influence on reason and on the character of its members4 ,it seeks the aid of the ,state4 ,the cross is in partnership with the sword4 ,people should spend ,sundays as they do other days2 that is to say1 as they please4 ,no one has the right to do anything on ,monday that interferes with the rights of his neighbors1 and everyone has the right to do anything he pleases on ,sunday that does not interfere with the rights of his neighbors4 ,sunday is a day of rest1 not of religion4 ,we are under obligation to do right on all days4 ,nothing can be more absurd than the idea that any particular space of time is sacred4 ,everything in nature goes on the same on ,sunday as on other days1 and if beyond nature there be a ,god1 then ,god works on ,sunday as he does on all other days4 ,there is no rest in nature4 ,there is perpetual activity in every possible direction4 ,the old idea that ,god made the world and then rested1 is idiotic4 ,there were two reasons given to the ,hebrews for keeping the ,sabbath --one because ,jehovah rested on that day1 the other because the ,hebrews were brought out of ,egypt4 ,the first reason1 we know1 is false1 and the second reason is good only for the ,hebrews4 ,according to the ,bible1 ,sunday1 or rather the ,sabbath1 was not for the world1 but for the ,hebrews1 and the ,hebrews alone4 ,our ,sunday is pagan and is the day of the sun1 as ,monday is the day of the moon4 ,all our day names are pagan4 ,i am opposed to all ,sunday legislation4 ,question4 ,why should ,sunday be observed otherwise than as a day of recreation8 ,answer4 ,sunday is a day of recreation1 or should be2 a day for the laboring man to rest1 a day to visit museums and libraries1 a day to look at pictures1 a day to get acquainted with your wife and children1 a day for poetry and art1 a day on which to read old letters and to meet friends1 a day to cultivate the amenities of life1 a day for those who live in tenements to feel the soft grass beneath their feet4 ,in short1 ,sunday should be a day of joy4 ,the church endeavors to fill it with gloom and sadness1 with stupid sermons and dyspeptic theology4 ,nothing could be more cowardly than the effort to compel the observance of the ,sabbath by law4 ,we of ,america have outgrown the childishness of the last century2 we laugh at the superstitions of our fathers4 ,we have made up our minds to be as happy as we can be1 knowing that the way to be happy is to make others so1 that the time to be happy is now1 whether that now is ,sunday or any other day in the week4 ,question4 ,under a ,federal ,constitution guaranteeing civil and religious liberty1 are the so-called ,blue ,laws constitutional8 ,answer4 ,no1 they are not4 ,but the probability is that the ,supreme ,courts of most of the ,states would decide the other way4 ,and yet all these laws are clearly contrary to the spirit of the ,federal ,constitution and the constitutions of most of the ,states4 ,i hope to live until all these foolish laws are repealed and until we are in the highest and noblest sense a free people4 ,and by free ,i mean each having the right to do anything that does not interfere with the rights or with the happiness of another4 ,i want to see the time when we live for this world and when all shall endeavor to increase1 by education1 by reason1 and by persuasion1 the sum of human happiness4 --,new ,york ,times1 ,july #ba1 #ahic4 ,,the ,,parliament ,,of ,,religions4 ,question4 ,the ,parliament of ,religions was called with a view to discussing the great religions of the world on the broad platform of tolerance4 ,supposing this to have been accomplished1 what effect is it likely to have on the future of creeds8 ,answer4 ,it was a good thing to get the representatives of all creeds to meet and tell their beliefs4 ,the tendency1 ,i think1 is to do away with prejudice1 with provincialism1 with egotism4 ,we know that the difference between the great religions1 so far as belief is concerned1 amounts to but little4 ,their gods have different names1 but in other respects they differ but little4 ,they are all cruel and ignorant4 ,question4 ,do you think likely that the time is coming when all the religions of the world will be treated with the liberality that is now characterizing the attitude of one sect toward another in ,christendom8 ,answer4 ,yes1 because ,i think that all religions will be found to be of equal authority1 and because ,i believe that the supernatural will be discarded and that man will give up his vain and useless efforts to get back of nature--to answer the questions of whence and whither8 ,as a matter of fact1 the various sects do not love one another4 ,the keenest hatred is religious hatred4 ,the most malicious malice is found in the hearts of those who love their enemies4 ,question4 ,bishop ,newman1 in replying to a learned ,buddhist at the ,parliament of ,religions1 said that ,buddhism had given to the world no helpful literature1 no social system1 and no heroic virtues4 ,is this true8 ,answer4 ,bishop ,newman is a very prejudiced man4 ,probably he got his information from the missionaries4 ,buddha was undoubtedly a great teacher4 ,long before ,christ lived ,buddha taught the brotherhood of man4 ,he said that intelligence was the only lever capable of raising mankind4 ,his followers1 to say the least of them1 are as good as the followers of ,christ4 ,bishop ,newman is a ,methodist--a follower of ,john ,wesley--and he has the prejudices of the sect to which he belongs4 ,we must remember that all prejudices are honest4 ,question4 ,is ,christian society1 or rather society in ,christian countries1 cursed with fewer robbers1 assassins1 and thieves1 proportionately1 then countries where heathen religions predominate8 ,answer4 ,i think not4 ,i do not believe that there are more lynchings1 more mob murders in ,india or ,turkey or ,persia than in some ,christian ,states of the great ,republic4 ,neither will you find more train robbers1 more forgers1 more thieves in heathen lands than in ,christian countries4 ,here the jails are full1 the penitentiaries are crowded1 and the hangman is busy4 ,all over ,christendom1 as many assert1 crime is on the increase1 going hand in hand with poverty4 ,the truth is1 that some of the wisest and best men are filled with apprehension for the future1 but ,i believe in the race and have confidence in man4 ,question4 ,how can society be so reconstructed that all this horrible suffering1 resultant from poverty and its natural associate1 crime1 may be abolished1 or at least reduced to a minimum8 ,answer4 ,in the first place we should stop supporting the useless4 ,the burden of superstition should be taken from the shoulders of industry4 ,in the next place men should stop bowing to wealth instead of worth4 ,men should be judged by what they do1 by what they are1 instead of by the property they have4 ,only those able to raise and educate children should have them4 ,children should be better born--better educated4 ,the process of regeneration will be slow1 but it will be sure4 ,the religion of our day is supported by the worst1 by the most dangerous people in society4 ,i do not allude to murderers or burglars1 or even to the little thieves4 ,i mean those who debauch courts and legislatures and elections-- those who make millions by legal fraud4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the ,theosophists8 ,are they sincere--have they any real basis for their psychological theories8 ,answer4 ,the ,theosophists may be sincere4 ,i do not know4 ,but ,i am perfectly satisfied that their theories are without any foundation in fact--that their doctrines are as unreal as their astral bodies1 and as absurd as a contradiction in mathematics4 ,we have had vagaries and theories enough4 ,we need the religion of the real1 the faith that rests on fact4 ,let us turn our attention to this world--the world in which we live4 --,new ,york ,herald1 ,september1 #ahic4 ,,cleveland',s ,,hawaiian ,,policy4 ,question4 ,colonel1 what do you think about ,mr4 ,cleveland's ,hawaiian policy8 ,answer4 ,i think it exceedingly laughable and a little dishonest --with the further fault that it is wholly unconstitutional4 ,this is not a one-man ,government1 and while ,liliuokalani may be ,queen1 ,cleveland is certainly not a king4 ,the worst thing about the whole matter1 as it appears to me1 is the bad faith that was shown by ,mr4 ,cleveland--the double-dealing4 ,he sent ,mr4 ,willis as ,minister to the ,provisional ,government and by that act admitted the existence1 and the rightful existence1 of the ,provisional ,government of the ,sandwich ,islands4 ,when ,mr4 ,willis started he gave him two letters4 ,one was addressed to ,dole1 ,president of the ,provisional ,government1 in which he addressed ,dole as ,great and good friend1 and at the close1 being a devout ,christian1 he asked ,god to take care of ,dole4 ,this was the first letter4 ,the letter of one ,president to another2 of one friend to another4 ,the second letter was addressed to ,mr4 ,willis1 in which ,mr4 ,willis was told to upset ,dole at the first opportunity and put the deposed ,queen back on her throne4 ,this may be diplomacy1 but it is no kin to honesty4 ,in my judgment1 it is the worst thing connected with the ,hawaiian affair4 ,what must the great and good ,dole think of our great and good ,president8 ,what must other nations think when they read the two letters and mentally exclaim1 ,look upon this and then upon that8 ,i think ,mr4 ,cleveland has acted arrogantly1 foolishly1 and unfairly4 ,i am in favor of obtaining the ,sandwich ,islands--of course by fair means4 ,i favor this policy because ,i want my country to become a power in the ,pacific4 ,all my life ,i have wanted this country to own the ,west ,indies1 the ,bermudas1 the ,bahamas and ,barbadoes4 ,they are our islands4 ,they belong to this continent1 and for any other nation to take them or claim them was1 and is1 a piece of impertinence and impudence4 ,so ,i would like to see the ,sandwich ,islands annexed to the ,united ,states4 ,they are a good way from ,san ,francisco and our ,western shore1 but they are nearer to us than they are to any other nation4 ,i think they would be of great importance4 ,they would tend to increase the ,asiatic trade1 and they certainly would be important in case of war4 ,we should have fortifications on those islands that no naval power could take4 ,some objection has been made on the ground that under our system the people of those islands would have to be represented in ,congress4 ,i say yes1 represented by a delegate until the islands become a real part of the country1 and by that time1 there would be several hundred thousand ,americans living there1 capable of sending over respectable members of ,congress4 ,now1 ,i think that ,mr4 ,cleveland has made a very great mistake4 ,first1 ,i think he was mistaken as to the facts in the ,sandwich ,islands2 second1 as to the ,constitution of the ,united ,states1 and thirdly1 as to the powers of the ,president of the ,united ,states4 ,question4 ,in your experience as a lawyer what was the most unique case in which you were ever engaged8 ,answer4 ,the ,star ,route trial4 ,every paper in the country1 but one1 was against the defence1 and that one was a little sheet owned by one of the defendants4 ,i received a note from a man living in a little town in ,ohio criticizing me for defending the accused4 ,in reply ,i wrote that ,i supposed he was a sensible man and that he1 of course1 knew what he was talking about when he said the accused were guilty2 that the ,government needed just such men as he1 and that he should come to the trial at once and testify4 ,the man wrote back3 ,dear ,colonel3 ,i am a ---- fool4 ,question4 ,will the church and the stage ever work together for the betterment of the world1 and what is the province of each8 ,answer4 ,the church and stage will never work together4 ,the pulpit pretends that fiction is fact4 ,the stage pretends that fiction is fact4 ,the pulpit pretence is dishonest--that of the stage is sincere4 ,the actor is true to art1 and honestly pretends to be what he is not4 ,the actor is natural1 if he is great1 and in this naturalness is his truth and his sincerity4 ,the pulpit is unnatural1 and for that reason untrue4 ,the pulpit is for another world1 the stage for this4 ,the stage is good because it is natural1 because it portrays real and actual life2 because it holds the mirror up to nature4 ,the pulpit is weak because it too often belittles and demeans this life2 because it slanders and calumniates the natural and is the enemy of joy4 --,the ,inter-,ocean1 ,chicago1 ,february #b1 #ahid4 ,,orators ,,and ,,oratory499 99 ,it was at his own law office in ,new ,york ,city that ,i had my talk with that very notable ,american1 ,col4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,bob ,ingersoll1 ,americans call him affectionately2 in a company of friends it is ,the ,colonel4 ,a more interesting personality it would be hard to find1 and those who know even a little of him will tell you that a bigger-hearted man probably does not live4 ,suppose a well- knit frame1 grown stouter than it once was1 and a fine1 strong face1 with a vivid gleam in the eyes1 a deep1 uncommonly musical voice1 clear cut1 decisive1 and a manner entirely delightful1 yet tinged with a certain reserve4 ,introduce a smoking cigar1 the smoke rising in little curls and billows1 then imagine a rugged sort of picturesqueness in dress1 and you get1 not by any means the man1 but1 still1 some notion of ,bob ,ingersoll4 ,colonel ,ingersoll stands at the front of ,american orators4 ,the natural thing1 therefore1 was that ,i should ask him--a master in the art--about oratory4 ,what he said ,i shall give in his own words precisely as ,i took them down from his lips1 for in the case of such a good commander of the old ,english tongue that is of some importance4 ,but the wonderful limpidness1 the charming pellucidness of ,ingersoll can only be adequately understood when you also have the finishing touch of his facile voice4 ,question4 ,i should be glad if you would tell me what you think the differences are between ,english and ,american oratory8 ,answer4 ,there is no difference between the real ,english and the real ,american orator4 ,oratory is the same the world over4 ,the man who thinks on his feet1 who has the pose of passion1 the face that thought illumines1 a voice in harmony with the ideals expressed1 who has logic like a column and poetry like a vine1 who transfigures the common1 dresses the ideals of the people in purple and fine linen1 who has the art of finding the best and noblest in his hearers1 and who in a thousand ways creates the climate in which the best grows and flourishes and bursts into blossom--that man is an orator1 no matter of what time1 of what country4 ,question4 ,if you were to compare individual ,english and ,american orators--recent or living orators in particular--what would you say8 ,answer4 ,i have never heard any of the great ,english speakers1 and consequently can pass no judgment as to their merits1 except such as depends on reading4 ,i think1 however1 the finest paragraph ever uttered in ,great ,britain was by ,curran in his defence of ,rowan4 ,i have never read one of ,mr4 ,gladstone's speeches1 only fragments4 ,i think he lacks logic4 ,bright was a great speaker1 but he lacked imagination and the creative faculty4 ,disraeli spoke for the clubs1 and his speeches were artificial4 ,we have had several fine speakers in ,america4 ,i think that ,thomas ,corwin stands at the top of the natural orators4 ,sergeant ,s4 ,prentiss1 the lawyer1 was a very great talker2 ,henry ,ward ,beecher was the greatest orator that the pulpit has produced4 ,theodore ,parker was a great orator4 ,in this country1 however1 probably ,daniel ,webster occupies the highest place in general esteem4 ,question4 ,which would you say are the better orators1 speaking generally1 the ,american people or the ,english people8 ,answer4 ,i think ,americans are1 on the average1 better talkers than the ,english4 ,i think ,england has produced the greatest literature of the world2 but ,i do not think ,england has produced the greatest orators of the world4 ,i know of no ,english orator equal to ,webster or ,corwin or ,beecher4 ,question4 ,would you mind telling me how it was you came to be a public speaker1 a lecturer1 an orator8 ,answer4 ,we call this ,america of ours free1 and yet ,i found it was very far from free4 ,our writers and our speakers declared that here in ,america church and state were divorced4 ,i found this to be untrue4 ,i found that the church was supported by the state in many ways1 that people who failed to believe certain portions of the creeds were not allowed to testify in courts or to hold office4 ,it occurred to me that some one ought to do something toward making this country intellectually free1 and after a while ,i thought that ,i might as well endeavor to do this as wait for another4 ,this is the way in which ,i came to make speeches2 it was an action in favor of liberty4 ,i have said things because ,i wanted to say them1 and because ,i thought they ought to be said4 ,question4 ,perhaps you will tell me your methods as a speaker1 for ,i'm sure it would be interesting to know them8 ,answer4 ,sometimes1 and frequently1 ,i deliver a lecture several times before it is written4 ,i have it taken by a shorthand writer1 and afterward written out4 ,at other times ,i have dictated a lecture1 and delivered it from manuscript4 ,the course pursued depends on how ,i happen to feel at the time4 ,sometimes ,i read a lecture1 and sometimes ,i deliver lectures without any notes--this1 again1 depending much on how ,i happen to feel4 ,so far as methods are concerned1 everything should depend on feeling4 ,attitude1 gestures1 voice1 emphasis1 should all be in accord with and spring from feeling1 from the inside4 ,question4 ,is there any possibility of your coming to ,england1 and1 ,i need hardly add1 of your coming to speak8 ,answer4 ,i have thought of going over to ,england1 and ,i may do so4 ,there is an ,england in ,england for which ,i have the highest possible admiration1 the ,england of culture1 of art1 of principle4 --,the ,sketch1 ,london1 ,eng41 ,march #ba1 #ahid4 ,,catholicism ,,and ,,protestantism4 ,,the ,,pope1 ,,the ,a4 ,p4 ,a41 ,,agnosticism ,,and ,,the ,,church4 ,question4 ,which do you regard as the better1 ,catholicism or ,protestantism8 ,answer4 ,protestantism is better than ,catholicism because there is less of it4 ,protestantism does not teach that a monk is better than a husband and father1 that a nun is holier than a mother4 ,protestants do not believe in the confessional4 ,neither do they pretend that priests can forgive sins4 ,protestantism has fewer ceremonies and less opera bouffe1 clothes1 caps1 tiaras1 mitres1 crooks and holy toys4 ,catholics have an infallible man--an old ,italian4 ,protestants have an infallible book1 written by ,hebrews before they were civilized4 ,the infallible man is generally wrong1 and the infallible book is filled with mistakes and contradictions4 ,catholics and ,protestants are both enemies of intellectual freedom --of real education1 but both are opposed to education enough to make free men and women4 ,between the ,catholics and ,protestants there has been about as much difference as there is between crocodiles and alligators4 ,both have done the worst they could1 both are as bad as they can be1 and the world is getting tired of both4 ,the world is not going to choose either--both are to be rejected4 ,question4 ,are you willing to give your opinion of the ,pope8 ,answer4 ,it may be that the ,pope thinks he is infallible1 but ,i doubt it4 ,he may think that he is the agent of ,god1 but ,i guess not4 ,he may know more than other people1 but if he does he has kept it to himself4 ,he does not seem satisfied with standing in the place and stead of ,god in spiritual matters1 but desires temporal power4 ,he wishes to be ,pope and ,king4 ,he imagines that he has the right to control the belief of all the world2 that he is the shepherd of all sheep and that the fleeces belong to him4 ,he thinks that in his keeping is the conscience of mankind4 ,so he imagines that his blessing is a great benefit to the faithful and that his prayers can change the course of natural events4 ,he is a strange mixture of the serious and comical4 ,he claims to represent ,god1 and admits that he is almost a prisoner4 ,there is something pathetic in the condition of this pontiff4 ,when ,i think of him1 ,i think of ,lear on the heath1 old1 broken1 touched with insanity1 and yet1 in his own opinion1 every inch a king4 ,the ,pope is a fragment1 a remnant1 a shred1 a patch of ancient power and glory4 ,he is a survival of the unfittest1 a souvenir of theocracy1 a relic of the supernatural4 ,of course he will have a few successors1 and they will become more and more comical1 more and more helpless and impotent as the world grows wise and free4 ,i am not blaming the ,pope4 ,he was poisoned at the breast of his mother4 ,superstition was mingled with her milk4 ,he was poisoned at school--taught to distrust his reason and to live by faith4 ,and so it may be that his mind was so twisted and tortured out of shape that he now really believes that he is the infallible agent of an infinite ,god4 ,question4 ,are you in favor of the ,a4 ,p4 ,a48 ,answer4 ,in this country ,i see no need of secret political societies4 ,i think it better to fight in the open field4 ,i am a believer in religious liberty1 in allowing all sects to preach their doctrines and to make as many converts as they can4 ,as long as we have free speech and a free press ,i think there is no danger of the country being ruled by any church4 ,the ,catholics are much better than their creed1 and the same can be said of nearly all members of orthodox churches4 ,a majority of ,american ,catholics think a great deal more of this country than they do of their church4 ,when they are in good health they are on our side4 ,it is only when they are very sick that they turn their eyes toward ,rome4 ,if they were in the majority1 of course1 they would destroy all other churches and imprison1 torture and kill all ,infidels4 ,but they will never be in the majority4 ,they increase now only because ,catholics come in from other countries4 ,in a few years that supply will cease1 and then the ,catholic ,church will grow weaker every day4 ,the free secular school is the enemy of priestcraft and superstition1 and the people of this country will never consent to the destruction of that institution4 ,i want no man persecuted on account of his religion4 ,question4 ,if there is no beatitude1 or heaven1 how do you account for the continual struggle in every natural heart for its own betterment8 ,answer4 ,man has many wants1 and all his efforts are the children of wants4 ,if he wanted nothing he would do nothing4 ,we civilize the savage by increasing his wants1 by cultivating his fancy1 his appetites1 his desires4 ,he is then willing to work to satisfy these new wants4 ,man always tries to do things in the easiest way4 ,his constant effort is to accomplish more with less work4 ,he invents a machine2 then he improves it1 his idea being to make it perfect4 ,he wishes to produce the best4 ,so in every department of effort and knowledge he seeks the highest success1 and he seeks it because it is for his own good here in this world4 ,so he finds that there is a relation between happiness and conduct1 and he tries to find out what he must do to produce the greatest enjoyment4 ,this is the basis of morality1 of law and ethics4 ,we are so constituted that we love proportion1 color1 harmony4 ,this is the artistic man4 ,morality is the harmony and proportion of conduct-- the music of life4 ,man continually seeks to better his condition --not because he is immortal--but because he is capable of grief and pain1 because he seeks for happiness4 ,man wishes to respect himself and to gain the respect of others4 ,the brain wants light1 the heart wants love4 ,growth is natural4 ,the struggle to overcome temptation1 to be good and noble1 brave and sincere1 to reach1 if possible1 the perfect1 is no evidence of the immortality of the soul or of the existence of other worlds4 ,men live to excel1 to become distinguished1 to enjoy1 and so they strive1 each in his own way1 to gain the ends desired4 ,question4 ,do you believe that the race is growing moral or immoral8 ,answer4 ,the world is growing better4 ,there is more real liberty1 more thought1 more intelligence than ever before4 ,the world was never so charitable or generous as now4 ,we do not put honest debtors in prison1 we no longer believe in torture4 ,punishments are less severe4 ,we place a higher value on human life4 ,we are far kinder to animals4 ,to this1 however1 there is one terrible exception4 ,the vivisectors1 those who cut1 torture1 and mutilate in the name of science1 disgrace our age4 ,they excite the horror and indignation of all good people4 ,leave out the actions of those wretches1 and animals are better treated than ever before4 ,so there is less beating of wives and whipping of children4 ,the whip in no longer found in the civilized home4 ,intelligent parents now govern by kindness1 love and reason4 ,the standard of honor is higher than ever4 ,contracts are more sacred1 and men do nearer as they agree4 ,man has more confidence in his fellow-man1 and in the goodness of human nature4 ,yes1 the world is getting better1 nobler and grander every day4 ,we are moving along the highway of progress on our way to the ,eden of the future4 ,question4 ,are the doctrines of ,agnosticism gaining ground1 and what1 in your opinion1 will be the future of the church8 ,answer4 ,the ,agnostic is intellectually honest4 ,he knows the limitations of his mind4 ,he is convinced that the questions of origin and destiny cannot be answered by man4 ,he knows that he cannot answer these questions1 and he is candid enough to say so4 ,the ,agnostic has good mental manners4 ,he does not call belief or hope or wish1 a demonstration4 ,he knows the difference between hope and belief--between belief and knowledge--and he keeps these distinctions in his mind4 ,he does not say that a certain theory is true because he wishes it to be true4 ,he tries to go according to evidence1 in harmony with facts1 without regard to his own desires or the wish of the public4 ,he has the courage of his convictions and the modesty of his ignorance4 ,the theologian is his opposite4 ,he is certain and sure of the existence of things and beings and worlds of which there is1 and can be1 no evidence4 ,he relies on assertion1 and in all debate attacks the motive of his opponent instead of answering his arguments4 ,all savages know the origin and destiny of man4 ,about other things they know but little4 ,the theologian is much the same4 ,the ,agnostic has given up the hope of ascertaining the nature of the ,first ,cause--the hope of ascertaining whether or not there was a ,first ,cause4 ,he admits that he does not know whether or not there is an infinite ,being4 ,he admits that these questions cannot be answered1 and so he refuses to answer4 ,he refuses also to pretend4 ,he knows that the theologian does not know1 and he has the courage to say so4 ,he knows that the religious creeds rest on assumption1 supposition1 assertion--on myth and legend1 on ignorance and superstition1 and that there is no evidence of their truth4 ,the ,agnostic bends his energies in the opposite direction4 ,he occupies himself with this world1 with things that can be ascertained and understood4 ,he turns his attention to the sciences1 to the solution of questions that touch the well-being of man4 ,he wishes to prevent and cure diseases2 to lengthen life2 to provide homes and raiment and food for man2 to supply the wants of the body4 ,he also cultivates the arts4 ,he believes in painting and sculpture1 in music and the drama--the needs of the soul4 ,the ,agnostic believes in developing the brain1 in cultivating the affections1 the tastes1 the conscience1 the judgment1 to the end that man may be happy in this world4 ,he seeks to find the relation of things1 the condition of happiness4 ,he wishes to enslave the forces of nature to the end that they may perform the work of the world4 ,back of all progress are the real thinkers2 the finders of facts1 those who turn their attention to the world in which we live4 ,the theologian has never been a help1 always a hindrance4 ,he has always kept his back to the sunrise4 ,with him all wisdom was in the past4 ,he appealed to the dead4 ,he was and is the enemy of reason1 of investigation1 of thought and progress4 ,the church has never given sanctuary to a persecuted truth4 ,there can be no doubt that the ideas of the ,agnostic are gaining ground4 ,the scientific spirit has taken possession of the intellectual world4 ,theological methods are unpopular to-day1 even in theological schools4 ,the attention of men everywhere is being directed to the affairs of this world1 this life4 ,the gods are growing indistinct1 and1 like the shapes of clouds1 they are changing as they fade4 ,the idea of special providence has been substantially abandoned4 ,people are losing1 and intelligent people have lost1 confidence in prayer4 ,to-day no intelligent person believes in miracles--a violation of the facts in nature4 ,they may believe that there used to be miracles a good while ago1 but not now4 ,the supernatural is losing its power1 its influence1 and the church is growing weaker every day4 ,the church is supported by the people1 and in order to gain the support of the people it must reflect their ideas1 their hopes and fears4 ,as the people advance1 the creeds will be changed1 either by changing the words or giving new meanings to the old words4 ,the church1 in order to live1 must agree substantially with those who support it1 and consequently it will change to any extent that may be necessary4 ,if the church remains true to the old standards then it will lose the support of progressive people1 and if the people generally advance the church will die4 ,but my opinion is that it will slowly change1 that the minister will preach what the members want to hear1 and that the creed will be controlled by the contribution box4 ,one of these days the preachers may become teachers1 and when that happens the church will be of use4 ,question4 ,what do you regard as the greatest of all themes in poetry and song8 ,answer4 ,love and ,death4 ,the same is true of the greatest music4 ,in ,tristan and ,isolde is the greatest music of love and death4 ,in ,shakespeare the greatest themes are love and death4 ,in all real poetry1 in all real music1 the dominant1 the triumphant tone1 is love1 and the minor1 the sad refrain1 the shadow1 the background1 the mystery1 is death4 ,question4 ,what would be your advice to an intelligent young man just starting out in life8 ,answer4 ,i would say to him3 ,be true to your ideal4 ,cultivate your heart and brain4 ,follow the light of your reason4 ,get all the happiness out of life that you possibly can4 ,do not care for power1 but strive to be useful4 ,first of all1 support yourself so that you may not be a burden to others4 ,if you are successful1 if you gain a surplus1 use it for the good of others4 ,own yourself and live and die a free man4 ,make your home a heaven1 love your wife and govern your children by kindness4 ,be good natured1 cheerful1 forgiving and generous4 ,find out the conditions of happiness1 and then be wise enough to live in accordance with them4 ,cultivate intellectual hospitality1 express your honest thoughts1 love your friends1 and be just to your enemies4 --,new ,york ,herald1 ,september #af1 #ahid4 ,,woman ,,and ,,her ,,domain4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the effect of the multiplicity of women's clubs as regards the intellectual1 moral and domestic status of their members8 ,answer4 ,i think that women should have clubs and societies1 that they should get together and exchange ideas4 ,women1 as a rule1 are provincial and conservative4 ,they keep alive all the sentimental mistakes and superstitions4 ,now1 if they can only get away from these1 and get abreast with the tide of the times1 and think as well as feel1 it will be better for them and their children4 ,you know ,st4 ,paul tells women that if they want to know anything they must ask their husbands4 ,for many centuries they have followed this orthodox advice1 and of course they have not learned a great deal1 because their husbands could not answer their questions4 ,husbands1 as a rule1 do not know a great deal1 and it will not do for every wife to depend on the ignorance of her worst half4 ,the women of to-day are the great readers1 and no book is a great success unless it pleases the women4 ,as a result of this1 all the literature of the world has changed1 so that now in all departments the thoughts of women are taken into consideration1 and women have thoughts1 because they are the intellectual equals of men4 ,there are no statesmen in this country the equals of ,harriet ,martineau2 probably no novelists the equals of ,george ,eliot or ,george ,sand1 and ,i think ,ouida the greatest living novelist4 ,i think her ,ariadne is one of the greatest novels in the ,english language4 ,there are few novels better than ,consuelo1 few poems better than ,mother and ,poet4 ,so in all departments women are advancing2 some of them have taken the highest honors at medical colleges2 others are prominent in the sciences1 some are great artists1 and there are several very fine sculptors1 c41 c4 ,so you can readily see what my opinion is on that point4 ,i am in favor of giving woman all the domain she conquers1 and as the world becomes civilized the domain that she can conquer will steadily increase4 ,question4 ,but1 ,colonel1 is there no danger of greatly interfering with a woman's duties as wife and mother8 ,answer4 ,i do not think that it is dangerous to think1 or that thought interferes with love or the duties of wife or mother4 ,i think the contrary is the truth2 the greater the brain the greater the power to love1 the greater the power to discharge all duties and obligations1 so ,i have no fear for the future4 ,about women voting ,i don't care2 whatever they want to do they have my consent4 --,the ,democrat1 ,grand ,rapids1 ,michigan1 #ahid4 ,,professor ,,swing4 ,question4 ,since you were last in this city1 ,colonel1 a distinguished man has passed away in the person of ,professor ,swing4 ,the public will be interested to have your opinion of him4 ,answer4 ,i think ,professor ,swing did a great amount of good4 ,he helped to civilize the church and to humanize the people4 ,his influence was in the right direction--toward the light4 ,in his youth he was acquainted with toil1 poverty1 and hardship2 his road was filled with thorns1 and yet he lived and scattered flowers in the paths of many people4 ,at first his soul was in the dungeon of a savage creed1 where the windows were very small and closely grated1 and though which struggled only a few rays of light4 ,he longed for more light and for more liberty1 and at last his fellow- prisoners drove him forth1 and from that time until his death he did what he could to give light and liberty to the souls of men4 ,he was a lover of nature1 poetic in his temperament1 charitable and merciful4 ,as an orator he may have lacked presence1 pose and voice1 but he did not lack force of statement or beauty of expression4 ,he was a man of wide learning1 of great admiration of the heroic and tender4 ,he did what he could to raise the standard of character1 to make his fellow-men just and noble4 ,he lost the provincialism of his youth and became in a very noble sense a citizen of the world4 ,he understood that all the good is not in our race or in our religion--that in every land there are good and noble men1 self- denying and lovely women1 and that in most respects other religions are as good as ours1 and in many respects better4 ,this gave him breadth of intellectual horizon and enlarged his sympathy for the failures of the world4 ,i regard his death as a great loss1 and his life as a lesson and inspiration4 --,inter-,ocean1 ,chicago1 ,october #ac1 #ahid4 ,,senator ,,sherman ,,and ,,his ,,book499 99 ,no one is better qualified than ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll to talk about ,senator ,sherman's book and the questions it raises in political history4 ,mr4 ,ingersoll was for years a resident of ,washington and a next-door neighbor to ,mr4 ,sherman2 he was for an even longer period the intimate personal friend of ,james ,g4 ,blaine2 he knew ,garfield from almost daily contact1 and of the ,republican ,national ,conventions concerning which ,senator ,sherman has raised points of controversy ,mr4 ,ingersoll can say1 as the ,north ,carolinian said of the ,confederacy3 ,part of whom ,i am which4 ,he placed ,blaine's name before the convention at ,cincinnati in #ahgf4 ,he made the first of the three great nominating speeches in convention history1 ,conkling and ,garfield making the others in #ahhj4 ,the figure of the ,plumed ,knight which ,mr4 ,ingersoll created to characterize ,mr4 ,blaine is part of the latter's memory4 ,at ,chicago1 four years later1 when ,garfield1 dazed by the irresistible doubt of the convention1 was on the point of refusing that in the acceptance of which he had no voluntary part1 ,ingersoll was the adviser who showed him that duty to ,sherman required no such action4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,senator ,sherman's book--especially the part about ,garfield8 ,answer4 ,of course1 ,i have only read a few extracts from ,mr4 ,sherman's reminiscences1 but ,i am perfectly satisfied that the ,senator is mistaken about ,garfield's course4 ,the truth is that ,garfield captured the convention by his course from day to day1 and especially by the speech he made for ,sherman4 ,after that speech1 and it was a good one1 the best ,garfield ever made1 the convention said1 ,speak for yourself1 ,john4 ,it was perfectly apparent that if the ,blaine and ,sherman forces should try to unite1 ,grant would be nominated4 ,it had to be ,grant or a new man1 and that man was ,garfield4 ,it all came about without ,garfield's help1 except in the way ,i have said4 ,garfield even went so far as to declare that under no circumstances could he accept1 because he was for ,sherman1 and honestly for him4 ,he told me that he would not allow his name to go before the convention4 ,just before he was nominated ,i wrote him a note in which ,i said he was about to be nominated1 and that he must not decline4 ,i am perfectly satisfied that he acted with perfect honor1 and that he did his best for ,sherman4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,sherman expresses the opinion that if he had had the moral strength of the ,ohio delegation in his support he would have been nominated8 ,answer4 ,we all know that while ,senator ,sherman had many friends1 and that while many thought he would make an excellent ,president1 still there was but little enthusiasm among his followers4 ,sherman had the respect of the party1 but hardly the love4 ,question4 ,in his book the ,senator expresses the opinion that he was quite close to the nomination in #ahhh1 when ,mr4 ,quay was for him4 ,do you think that is so1 ,mr4 ,ingersoll8 ,answer4 ,i think ,mr4 ,sherman had a much better chance in #ahhh than in #ahhj1 but as a matter of fact1 he never came within hailing distance of success at any time4 ,he is not of the nature to sway great bodies of men4 ,he lacks the power to impress himself upon others to such an extent as to make friends of enemies and devotees of friends4 ,mr4 ,sherman has had a remarkable career1 and ,i think that he ought to be satisfied with what he has achieved4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,ingersoll1 what do you think defeated ,blaine for the nomination in #ahgf8 ,answer4 ,on the first day of the convention at ,cincinnati it was known that ,blaine was the leading candidate4 ,all of the enthusiasm was for him4 ,it was soon known that ,conkling1 ,bristow or ,morton could not be nominated1 and that in all probability ,blaine would succeed4 ,the fact that ,blaine had been attacked by vertigo1 or had suffered from a stroke of apoplexy1 gave an argument to those who opposed him1 and this was used with great effect4 ,after ,blaine was put in nomination1 and before any vote was taken1 the convention adjourned1 and during the night a great deal of work was done4 ,the ,michigan delegation was turned inside out and the ,blaine forces raided in several ,states4 ,hayes1 the dark horse1 suddenly developed speed1 and the scattered forces rallied to his support4 ,i have always thought that if a ballot could have been taken on the day ,blaine was put in nomination he would have succeeded1 and yet he might have been defeated for the nomination anyway4 ,blaine had the warmest friends and the bitterest enemies of any man in the party4 ,people either loved or hated him4 ,he had no milk-and-water friends and no milk-and-water enemies4 ,question4 ,if ,blaine had been nominated at ,cincinnati in #ahgf would he have made a stronger candidate than ,hayes did8 ,answer4 ,if he had been nominated then1 ,i believe that he would have been triumphantly elected4 ,mr4 ,blaine's worst enemies would not have supported ,tilden1 and thousands of moderate ,democrats would have given their votes to ,blaine4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,ingersoll1 do you think that ,mr4 ,blaine wanted the nomination in #ahhd1 when he got it8 ,answer4 ,in #ahhc1 ,mr4 ,blaine told me that he did not want the nomination4 ,i said to him3 ,is that honest8 ,he replied that he did not want it1 that he was tired of the whole business4 ,i said3 ,if you do not want it2 if you have really reached that conclusion1 then ,i think you will get it4 ,he laughed1 and again said3 ,i do not want it4 ,i believe that he spoke exactly as he then felt4 ,question4 ,what do you think defeated ,mr4 ,blaine at the polls in #ahhd8 ,answer4 ,blaine was a splendid manager for another man1 a great natural organizer1 and when acting for others made no mistake2 but he did not manage his own campaign with ability4 ,he made a succession of mistakes4 ,his suit against the ,indianapolis editor2 his letter about the ownership of certain stocks2 his reply to ,burchard and the preachers1 in which he said that history showed the church could get along without the state1 but the state could not get along without the church1 and this in reply to the ,rum1 ,romanism and ,rebellion nonsense2 and last1 but not least1 his speech to the millionaires in ,new ,york--all of these things weakened him4 ,as a matter of fact many ,catholics were going to support ,blaine1 but when they saw him fooling with the ,protestant clergy1 and accepting the speech of ,burchard1 they instantly turned against him4 ,if he had never met ,burchard1 ,i think he would have been elected4 ,his career was something like that of ,mr4 ,clay2 he was the most popular man of his party and yet---- ,question4 ,how do you account for ,mr4 ,blaine's action in allowing his name to go before the convention at ,minneapolis in #ahib8 ,answer4 ,in #ahib1 ,mr4 ,blaine was a sick man1 almost worn out2 he was not his former self1 and he was influenced by others4 ,he seemed to have lost his intuition2 he was misled1 yet in spite of all defeats1 no name will create among ,republicans greater enthusiasm than that of ,james ,g4 ,blaine4 ,millions are still his devoted1 unselfish and enthusiastic friends and defenders4 --,the ,globe-,democrat1 ,st4 ,louis1 ,october #bg1 #ahie4 ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,christian ,,endeavorers4 ,question4 ,how were you affected by the announcement that the united prayers of the ,salvationists and ,christian ,endeavorers were to be offered for your conversion8 ,answer4 ,the announcement did not affect me to any great extent4 ,i take it for granted that the people praying for me are sincere and that they have a real interest in my welfare4 ,of course1 ,i thank them one and all4 ,at the same time ,i can hardly account for what they did4 ,certainly they would not ask ,god to convert me unless they thought the prayer could be answered4 ,and if their ,god can convert me of course he can convert everybody4 ,then the question arises why he does not do it4 ,why does he let millions go to hell when he can convert them all4 ,why did he not convert them all before the flood and take them all to heaven instead of drowning them and sending them all to hell4 ,of course these questions can be answered by saying that ,god's ways are not our ways4 ,i am greatly obliged to these people4 ,still1 ,i feel about the same1 so that it would be impossible to get up a striking picture of before and after4 ,it was good-natured on their part to pray for me1 and that act alone leads me to believe that there is still hope for them4 ,the trouble with the ,christian ,endeavorers is that they don't give my arguments consideration4 ,if they did they would agree with me4 ,it seemed curious that they would advise divine wisdom what to do1 or that they would ask infinite mercy to treat me with kindness4 ,if there be a ,god1 of course he knows what ought to be done1 and will do it without any hints from ignorant human beings4 ,still1 the ,endeavorers and the ,salvation people may know more about ,god than ,i do4 ,for all ,i know1 this ,god may need a little urging4 ,he may be powerful but a little slow2 intelligent but sometimes a little drowsy1 and it may do good now and then to call his attention to the facts4 ,the prayers did not1 so far as ,i know1 do me the least injury or the least good4 ,i was glad to see that the ,christians are getting civilized4 ,a few years ago they would have burned me4 ,now they pray for me4 ,suppose ,god should answer the prayers and convert me1 how would he bring the conversion about8 ,in the first place1 he would have to change my brain and give me more credulity--that is1 he would be obliged to lessen my reasoning power4 ,then ,i would believe not only without evidence1 but in spite of evidence4 ,all the miracles would appear perfectly natural4 ,it would then seem as easy to raise the dead as to waken the sleeping4 ,in addition to this1 ,god would so change my mind that ,i would hold all reason in contempt and put entire confidence in faith4 ,i would then regard science as the enemy of human happiness1 and ignorance as the soil in which virtues grow4 ,then ,i would throw away ,darwin and ,humboldt1 and rely on the sermons of orthodox preachers4 ,in other words1 ,i would become a little child and amuse myself with a religious rattle and a ,gabriel horn4 ,then ,i would rely on a man who has been dead for nearly two thousand years to secure me a seat in ,paradise4 ,after conversion1 it is not pretended that ,i will be any better so far as my actions are concerned2 no more charitable1 no more honest1 no more generous4 ,the great difference will be that ,i will believe more and think less4 ,after all1 the converted people do not seem to be better than the sinners4 ,i never heard of a poor wretch clad in rags1 limping into a town and asking for the house of a ,christian4 ,i think that ,i had better remain as ,i am4 ,i had better follow the light of my reason1 be true to myself1 express my honest thoughts1 and do the little ,i can for the destruction of superstition1 the little ,i can for the development of the brain1 for the increase of intellectual hospitality and the happiness of my fellow-beings4 ,one world at a time4 --,new ,york ,journal1 ,december #ae1 #ahie4 ,,spiritualism4 ,there are several good things about ,spiritualism4 ,first1 they are not bigoted2 second1 they do not believe in salvation by faith2 third1 they don't expect to be happy in another world because ,christ was good in this2 fourth1 they do not preach the consolation of hell2 fifth1 they do not believe in ,god as an infinite monster2 sixth1 the ,spiritualists believe in intellectual hospitality4 ,in these respects they differ from our ,christian brethren1 and in these respects they are far superior to the saints4 ,i think that the ,spiritualists have done good4 ,they believe in enjoying themselves--in having a little pleasure in this world4 ,they are social1 cheerful and good-natured4 ,they are not the slaves of a book4 ,their hands and feet are not tied with passages of ,scripture4 ,they are not troubling themselves about getting forgiveness and settling their heavenly debts for a cent on the dollar4 ,their belief does not make then mean or miserable4 ,they do not persecute their neighbors4 ,they ask no one to have faith or to believe without evidence4 ,they ask all to investigate1 and then to make up their minds from the evidence4 ,hundreds and thousands of well-educated1 intelligent people are satisfied with the evidence and firmly believe in the existence of spirits4 ,for all ,i know1 they may be right--but---- ,question4 ,the ,spiritualists have indirectly claimed1 that you were in many respects almost one of them4 ,have you given them reason to believe so8 ,answer4 ,i am not a ,spiritualist1 and have never pretended to be4 ,the ,spiritualists believe in free thought1 in freedom of speech1 and they are willing to hear the other side--willing to hear me4 ,the best thing about the ,spiritualists is that they believe in intellectual hospitality4 ,question4 ,is ,spiritualism a religion or a truth8 ,answer4 ,i think that ,spiritualism may properly be called a religion4 ,it deals with two worlds--teaches the duty of man to his fellows--the relation that this life bears to the next4 ,it claims to be founded on facts4 ,it insists that the dead converse with the living1 and that information is received from those who once lived in this world4 ,of the truth of these claims ,i have no sufficient evidence4 ,question4 ,are all mediums impostors8 ,answer4 ,i will not say that all mediums are impostors1 because ,i do not know4 ,i do not believe that these mediums get any information or help from spirits4 ,i know that for thousands of years people have believed in mediums--in ,spiritualism4 ,a spirit in the form of a man appeared to ,samson's mother1 and afterward to his father4 ,spirits1 or angels1 called on ,abraham4 ,the witch of ,endor raised the ghost of ,samuel4 ,an angel appeared with three men in the furnace4 ,the handwriting on the wall was done by a spirit4 ,a spirit appeared to ,joseph in a dream1 to the wise men and to ,joseph again4 ,so a spirit1 an angel or a god1 spoke to ,saul1 and the same happened to ,mary ,magdalene4 ,the religious literature of the world is filled with such things4 ,take ,spiritualism from ,christianity and the whole edifice crumbles4 ,all religions1 so far as ,i know1 are based on ,spiritualism--on communications received from angels1 from spirits4 ,i do not say that all the mediums1 ancient and modern1 were1 and are1 impostors--but ,i do think that all the honest ones were1 and are1 mistaken4 ,i do not believe that man has ever received any communication from angels1 spirits or gods4 ,no whisper1 as ,i believe1 has ever come from any other world4 ,the lips of the dead are always closed4 ,from the grave there has come no voice4 ,for thousands of years people have been questioning the dead4 ,they have tried to catch the whisper of a vanished voice4 ,many say that they have succeeded4 ,i do not know4 ,question4 ,what is the explanation of the startling knowledge displayed by some so-called mediums of the history and personal affairs of people who consult them8 ,is there any such thing as mind-reading or thought-transference8 ,answer4 ,in a very general way1 ,i suppose that one person may read the thought of another--not definitely1 but by the expression of the face1 by the attitude of the body1 some idea may be obtained as to what a person thinks1 what he intends4 ,so thought may be transferred by look or language1 but not simply by will4 ,everything that is1 is natural4 ,our ignorance is the soil in which mystery grows4 ,i do not believe that thoughts are things that can been seen or touched4 ,each mind lives in a world of its own1 a world that no other mind can enter4 ,minds1 like ships at sea1 give signs and signals to each other1 but they do not exchange captains4 ,question4 ,is there any such thing as telepathy8 ,what is the explanation of the stories of mental impressions received at long distances8 ,answer4 ,there are curious coincidences4 ,people sometimes happen to think of something that is taking place at a great distance4 ,the stories about these happenings are not very well authenticated1 and seem never to have been of the least use to anyone4 ,question4 ,can these phenomena be considered aside from any connection with1 or form of1 superstition8 ,answer4 ,i think that mistake1 emotion1 nervousness1 hysteria1 dreams1 love of the wonderful1 dishonesty1 ignorance1 grief and the longing for immortality--the desire to meet the loved and lost1 the horror of endless death--account for these phenomena4 ,people often mistake their dreams for realities--often think their thoughts have happened4 ,they live in a mental mist1 a mirage4 ,the boundary between the actual and the imagined becomes faint1 wavering and obscure4 ,they mistake clouds for mountains4 ,the real and the unreal mix and mingle until the impossible becomes common1 and the natural absurd4 ,question4 ,do you believe that any sane man ever had a vision8 ,answer4 ,of course1 the sane and insane have visions1 dreams4 ,i do not believe that any man1 sane or insane1 was ever visited by an angel or spirit1 or ever received any information from the dead4 ,question4 ,setting aside from consideration the so-called physical manifestations of the mediums1 has ,spiritualism offered any proof of the immortality of the soul8 ,answer4 ,of course ,spiritualism offers what it calls proof of immortality4 ,that is its principal business4 ,thousands and thousands of good1 honest1 intelligent people think the proof sufficient4 ,they receive what they believe to be messages from the departed1 and now and then the spirits assume their old forms --including garments--and pass through walls and doors as light passes through glass4 ,do these things really happen8 ,if the spirits of the dead do return1 then the fact of another life is established4 ,it all depends on the evidence4 ,our senses are easily deceived1 and some people have more confidence in their reason than in their senses4 ,question4 ,do you not believe that such a man as ,robert ,dale ,owen was sincere8 ,what was the real state of mind of the author of ,footfalls on the ,boundaries of ,another ,world8 ,answer4 ,without the slightest doubt1 ,robert ,dale ,owen was sincere4 ,he was one of the best of men4 ,his father labored all his life for the good of others4 ,robert ,owen1 the father1 had a debate1 in ,cincinnati1 with the ,rev4 ,alexander ,campbell1 the founder of the ,campbellite ,church4 ,campbell was no match for ,owen1 and yet the audience was almost unanimously against ,owen4 ,robert ,dale ,owen was an intelligent1 thoughtful1 honest man4 ,he was deceived by several mediums1 but remained a believer4 ,he wanted ,spiritualism to be true4 ,he hungered and thirsted for another life4 ,he explained everything that was mysterious or curious by assuming the interference of spirits4 ,he was a good man1 but a poor investigator4 ,he thought that people were all honest4 ,question4 ,what do you understand the ,spiritualist means when he claims that the soul goes to the ,summer land1 and there continues to work and evolute to higher planes8 ,answer4 ,no one pretends to know where heaven is4 ,the celestial realm is the blessed somewhere in the unknown nowhere4 ,so far as ,i know1 the ,summer land has no metes and bounds1 and no one pretends to know exactly or inexactly where it is4 ,after all1 the ,summer land is a hope--a wish4 ,spiritualists believe that a soul leaving this world passes into another1 or into another state1 and continues to grow in intelligence and virtue1 if it so desires4 ,spiritualists claim to prove that there is another life4 ,christians believe this1 but their witnesses have been dead for many centuries4 ,they take the hearsay of legend and ancient gossip2 but ,spiritualists claim to have living witnesses2 witnesses that can talk1 make music2 that can take to themselves bodies and shake hands with the people they knew before they passed to the other shore4 ,question4 ,has ,spiritualism1 through its mediums1 ever told the world anything useful1 or added to the store of the world's knowledge1 or relieved its burdens8 ,answer4 ,i do not know that any medium has added to the useful knowledge of the world1 unless mediums have given evidence of another life4 ,mediums have told us nothing about astronomy1 geology or history1 have made no discoveries1 no inventions1 and have enriched no art4 ,the same may be said of every religion4 ,all the orthodox churches believe in ,spiritualism4 ,every now and then the ,virgin appears to some peasant1 and in the old days the darkness was filled with evil spirits4 ,christ was a ,spiritualist1 and his principal business was the casting out of devils4 ,all of his disciples1 all of the church fathers1 all of the saints were believers in ,spiritualism of the lowest and most ignorant type4 ,during the ,middle ,ages people changed themselves1 with the aid of spirits1 into animals4 ,they became wolves1 dogs1 cats and donkeys4 ,in those day all the witches and wizards were mediums4 ,so animals were sometimes taken possession of by spirits1 the same as ,balaam's donkey and ,christ's swine4 ,nothing was too absurd for the ,christians4 ,question4 ,has not ,spiritualism added to the world's stock of hope8 ,and in what way has not ,spiritualism done good8 ,answer4 ,the mother holding in her arms her dead child1 believing that the babe has simply passed to another life1 does not weep as bitterly as though she thought that death was the eternal end4 ,a belief in ,spiritualism must be a consolation4 ,you see1 the ,spiritualists do not believe in eternal pain1 and consequently a belief in immortality does not fill their hearts with fear4 ,christianity makes eternal life an infinite horror1 and casts the glare of hell on almost every grave4 ,the ,spiritualists appear to be happy in their belief4 ,i have never known a happy orthodox ,christian4 ,it is natural to shun death1 natural to desire eternal life4 ,with all my heart ,i hope for everlasting life and joy--a life without failures1 without crimes and tears4 ,if immortality could be established1 the river of life would overflow with happiness4 ,the faces of prisoners1 of slaves1 of the deserted1 of the diseased and starving would be radiant with smiles1 and the dull eyes of despair would glow with light4 ,if it could be established4 ,let us hope4 --,the ,journal1 ,new ,york1 ,july #bf1 #ahif4 ,a ,,little ,,of ,,everything4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the position taken by the ,united ,states in the ,venezuelan dispute8 ,how should the dispute be settled8 ,answer4 ,i do not think that we have any interest in the dispute between ,venezuela and ,england4 ,it was and is none of our business4 ,the ,monroe doctrine was not and is not in any way involved4 ,mr4 ,cleveland made a mistake and so did ,congress4 ,question4 ,what should be the attitude of the church toward the stage8 ,answer4 ,it should be1 what it always has been1 against it4 ,if the orthodox churches are right1 then the stage is wrong4 ,the stage makes people forget hell2 and this puts their souls in peril4 ,there will be forever a conflict between ,shakespeare and the ,bible4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the new woman8 ,answer4 ,i like her4 ,question4 ,where rests the responsibility for the ,armenian atrocities8 ,answer4 ,religion is the cause of the hatred and bloodshed4 ,question4 ,what do you think of international marriages1 as between titled foreigners and ,american heiresses8 ,answer4 ,my opinion is the same as is entertained by the ,american girl after the marriages4 ,it is a great mistake4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,england's ,poet ,laureate1 ,alfred ,austin8 ,answer4 ,i have only read a few of his lines and they were not poetic4 ,the office of ,poet ,laureate should be abolished4 ,men cannot write poems to order as they could deliver cabbages or beer4 ,by poems ,i do not mean jingles of words4 ,i mean great thoughts clothed in splendor4 ,question4 ,what is your estimate of ,susan ,b4 ,anthony8 ,answer4 ,miss ,anthony is one of the most remarkable women in the world4 ,she has the enthusiasm of youth and spring1 the courage and sincerity of a martyr4 ,she is as reliable as the attraction of gravitation4 ,she is absolutely true to her conviction1 intellectually honest1 logical1 candid and infinitely persistent4 ,no human being has done more for women than ,miss ,anthony4 ,she has won the respect and admiration of the best people on the earth4 ,and so ,i say3 ,good luck and long life to ,susan ,b4 ,anthony4 ,question4 ,which did more for his country1 ,george ,washington or ,abraham ,lincoln8 ,answer4 ,in my judgment1 ,lincoln was the greatest man ever ,president4 ,i put him above ,washington and ,jefferson4 ,he had the genius of goodness2 and he was one of the wisest and shrewdest of men4 ,lincoln towers above them all4 ,question4 ,what gave rise to the report that you had been converted --did you go to church somewhere8 ,answer4 ,i visited the ,people's ,church in ,kalamazoo1 ,michigan4 ,this church has no creed4 ,the object is to make people happy in this world4 ,miss ,bartlett is the pastor4 ,she is a remarkable woman and is devoting her life to good work4 ,i liked her church and said so4 ,this is all4 ,question4 ,are there not some human natures so morally weak or diseased that they cannot keep from sin without the aid of some sort of religion8 ,answer4 ,i do not believe that the orthodox religion helps anybody to be just1 generous or honest4 ,superstition is not the soil in which goodness grows4 ,falsehood is poor medicine4 ,question4 ,would you consent to live in any but a ,christian community8 ,if you would1 please name one4 ,answer4 ,i would not live in a community where all were orthodox ,christians4 ,i would rather dwell in ,central ,africa4 ,if ,i could have my choice ,i would rather live among people who were free1 who sought for truth and lived according to reason4 ,sometime there will be such a community4 ,question4 ,is the noun ,united ,states singular or plural1 as you use ,english8 ,answer4 ,i use it in the singular4 ,question4 ,have you read ,nordau's ,degeneracy8 ,if so1 what do you think of it8 ,answer4 ,i think it is substantially insane4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,bishop ,doane's advocacy of free rum as a solution of the liquor problem8 ,answer4 ,i am a believer in liberty4 ,all the temperance legislation1 all the temperance societies1 all the agitation1 all these things have done no good4 ,question4 ,do you agree with ,mr4 ,carnegie that a college education is of little or no practical value to a man8 ,answer4 ,a man must have education4 ,it makes no difference where or how he gets it4 ,to study the dead languages is time wasted so far as success in business is concerned4 ,most of the colleges in this country are poor because controlled by theologians4 ,question4 ,what suggestion would you make for the improvement of the newspapers of this country8 ,answer4 ,every article in a newspaper should be signed by the writer4 ,and all writers should do their best to tell the exact facts4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,niagara ,falls8 ,answer4 ,it is a dangerous place4 ,those great rushing waters-- there is nothing attractive to me in them4 ,there is so much noise2 so much tumult4 ,it is simply a mighty force of nature--one of those tremendous powers that is to be feared for its danger4 ,what ,i like in nature is a cultivated field1 where men can work in the free open air1 where there is quiet and repose--no turmoil1 no strife1 no tumult1 no fearful roar or struggle for mastery4 ,i do not like the crowded1 stuffy workshop1 where life is slavery and drudgery4 ,give me the calm1 cultivated land of waving grain1 of flowers1 of happiness4 ,question4 ,what is worse than death8 ,answer4 ,oh1 a great many things4 ,to be dishonored4 ,to be worthless4 ,to feel that you are a failure4 ,to be insane4 ,to be constantly afraid of the future4 ,to lose the ones you love4 --,the ,herald1 ,rochester1 ,new ,york1 ,february #be1 #ahif4 ,,is ,,life ,,worth ,,living--,,christian ,,science ,,and ,,politics4 ,question4 ,with all your experiences1 the trials1 the responsibilities1 the disappointments1 the heartburnings1 ,colonel1 is life worth living8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i can only answer for myself4 ,i like to be alive1 to breathe the air1 to look at the landscape1 the clouds and stars1 to repeat old poems1 to look at pictures and statues1 to hear music1 the voices of the ones ,i love4 ,i like to talk with my wife1 my girls1 my grandchildren4 ,i like to sleep and to dream4 ,yes1 you can say that life1 to me1 is worth living4 ,question4 ,colonel1 did you ever kill any game8 ,answer4 ,when ,i was a boy ,i killed two ducks1 and it hurt me as much as anything ,i ever did4 ,no1 ,i would not kill any living creature4 ,i am sometimes tempted to kill a mosquito on my hand1 but ,i stop and think what a wonderful construction it has1 and shoo it away4 ,question4 ,what do you think of political parties1 ,colonel8 ,answer4 ,in a country where the sovereignty is divided among the people1 that is to say1 among the men1 in order to accomplish anything1 many must unite1 and ,i believe in joining the party that is going the nearest your way4 ,i do not believe in being the slave or serf or servant of a party4 ,go with it if it is going your road1 and when the road forks1 take the one that leads to the place you wish to visit1 no matter whether the party goes that way or not4 ,i do not believe in belonging to a party or being the property of any organization4 ,i do not believe in giving a mortgage on yourself or a deed of trust for any purpose whatever4 ,it is better to be free and vote wrong than to be a slave and vote right4 ,i believe in taking the chances4 ,at the same time1 as long as a party is going my way1 ,i believe in placing that party above particular persons1 and if that party nominates a man that ,i despise1 ,i will vote for him if he is going my way4 ,i would rather have a bad man belonging to my party in place1 than a good man belonging to the other1 provided my man believes in my principles1 and to that extent ,i believe in party loyalty4 ,neither do ,i join in the general hue and cry against bosses4 ,there has always got to be a leader1 even in a flock of wild geese4 ,if anything is to be accomplished1 no matter what1 somebody takes the lead and the others allow him to go on4 ,in that way political bosses are made1 and when you hear a man howling against bosses at the top of his lungs1 distending his cheeks to the bursting point1 you may know that he has ambition to become a boss4 ,i do not belong to the ,republican party1 but ,i have been going with it1 and when it goes wrong ,i shall quit1 unless the other is worse4 ,there is no office1 no place1 that ,i want1 and as it does not cost anything to be right1 ,i think it better to be that way4 ,question4 ,what is your idea of ,christian ,science8 ,answer4 ,i think it is superstition1 pure and unadulterated4 ,i think that soda will cure a sour stomach better than thinking4 ,in my judgment1 quinine is a better tonic than meditation4 ,of course cheerfulness is good and depression bad1 but if you can absolutely control the body and all its functions by thought1 what is the use of buying coal8 ,let the mercury go down and keep yourself hot by thinking4 ,what is the use of wasting money for food8 ,fill your stomach with think4 ,according to these ,christian ,science people all that really exists is an illusion1 and the only realities are the things that do not exist4 ,they are like the old fellow in ,india who said that all things were illusions4 ,one day he was speaking to a crowd on his favorite hobby4 ,just as he said all is illusion a fellow on an elephant rode toward him4 ,the elephant raised his trunk as though to strike1 thereupon the speaker ran away4 ,then the crowd laughed4 ,in a few moments the speaker returned4 ,the people shouted3 ,if all is illusion1 what made you run away8 ,the speaker replied3 ,my poor friends1 ,i said all is illusion4 ,i say so still4 ,there was no elephant4 ,i did not run away4 ,you did not laugh1 and ,i am not explaining now4 ,all is illusion4 ,that man must have been a ,christian ,scientist4 --,the ,inter-,ocean1 ,chicago1 ,november1 #ahig4 ,,vivisection4 ,question4 ,why are you so utterly opposed to vivisection8 ,answer4 ,because1 as it is generally practiced1 it is an unspeakable cruelty4 ,because it hardens the hearts and demoralizes those who inflict useless and terrible pains on the bound and helpless4 ,if these vivisectionists would give chloroform or ether to the animals they dissect2 if they would render them insensible to pain1 and if1 by cutting up these animals1 they could learn anything worth knowing1 no one would seriously object4 ,the trouble is that these doctors1 these students1 these professors1 these amateurs1 do not give anesthetics4 ,they insist that to render the animal insensible does away with the value of the experiment4 ,they care nothing for the pain they inflict4 ,they are so eager to find some fact that will be of benefit to the human race1 that they are utterly careless of the agony endured4 ,now1 what ,i say is that no decent man1 no gentleman1 no civilized person1 would vivisect an animal without first having rendered that animal insensible to pain4 ,the doctor1 the scientist1 who puts his knives1 forceps1 chisels and saws into the flesh1 bones and nerves of an animal without having used an anesthetic1 is a savage1 a pitiless1 heartless monster4 ,when he says he does this for the good of man1 because he wishes to do good1 he says what is not true4 ,no such man wants to do good2 he commits the crime for his own benefit and because he wishes to gratify an insane cruelty or to gain a reputation among like savages4 ,these scientists now insist that they have done some good4 ,they do not tell exactly what they have done4 ,the claim is general in its character--not specific4 ,if they have done good1 could they not have done just as much if they had used anesthetics8 ,good is not the child of cruelty4 ,question4 ,do you think that the vivisectionists do their work without anesthetics8 ,do they not1 as a rule1 give something to deaden pain8 ,answer4 ,here is what the trouble is4 ,now and then one uses chloroform1 but the great majority do not4 ,they claim that it interferes with the value of the experiment1 and1 as ,i said before1 they object to the expense4 ,why should they care for what the animals suffer8 ,they inflict the most horrible and useless pain1 and they try the silliest experiments--experiments of no possible use or advantage4 ,for instance3 ,they flay a dog to see how long he can live without his skin4 ,is this trifling experiment of any importance8 ,suppose the dog can live a week or a month or a year1 what then8 ,what must the real character of the scientific wretch be who would try an experiment like this8 ,is such a man seeking the good of his fellow- men8 ,so1 these scientists starve animals until they slowly die2 watch them from day to day as life recedes from the extremities1 and watch them until the final surrender1 to see how long the heart will flutter without food2 without water4 ,they keep a diary of their sufferings1 of their whinings and moanings1 of their insanity4 ,and this diary is published and read with joy and eagerness by other scientists in like experiments4 ,of what possible use is it to know how long a dog or horse can live without food8 ,so1 they take animals1 dogs and horses1 cut through the flesh with the knife1 remove some of the back bone with the chisel1 then divide the spinal marrow1 then touch it with red hot wires for the purpose of finding1 as they say1 the connection of nerves2 and the animal1 thus vivisected1 is left to die4 ,a good man will not voluntarily inflict pain4 ,he will see that his horse has food1 if he can procure it1 and if he cannot procure the food1 he will end the sufferings of the animal in the best and easiest way4 ,so1 the good man would rather remain in ignorance as to how pain is transmitted than to cut open the body of a living animal1 divide the marrow and torture the nerves with red hot iron4 ,of what use can it be to take a dog1 tie him down and cut out one of his kidneys to see if he can live with the other8 ,these horrors are perpetrated only by the cruel and the heartless --so cruel and so heartless that they are utterly unfit to be trusted with a human life4 ,they inoculate animals with a virus of disease2 they put poison in their eyes until rottenness destroys the sight2 until the poor brutes become insane4 ,they given them a disease that resembles hydrophobia1 that is accompanied by the most frightful convulsions and spasms4 ,they put them in ovens to see what degree of heat it is that kills4 ,they also try the effect of cold2 they slowly drown them2 they poison them with the venom of snakes2 they force foreign substances into their blood1 and1 by inoculation1 into their eyes2 and then watch and record their agonies2 their sufferings4 ,question4 ,don't you think that some good has been accomplished1 some valuable information obtained1 by vivisection8 ,answer4 ,i don't think any valuable information has been obtained by the vivisection of animals without chloroform that could not have been obtained with chloroform4 ,and to answer the question broadly as to whether any good has been accomplished by vivisection1 ,i say no4 ,according to the best information that ,i can obtain1 the vivisectors have hindered instead of helped4 ,lawson ,tait1 who stands at the head of his profession in ,england1 the best surgeon in ,great ,britain1 says that all this cutting and roasting and freezing and torturing of animals has done harm instead of good4 ,he says publicly that the vivisectors have hindered the progress of surgery4 ,he declares that they have not only done no good1 but asserts that they have done only harm4 ,the same views according to ,doctor ,tait1 are entertained by ,bell1 ,syme and ,fergusson4 ,many have spoken of ,darwin as though he were a vivisector4 ,this is not true4 ,all that has been accomplished by these torturers of dumb and helpless animals amounts to nothing4 ,we have obtained from these gentlemen ,koch's cure for consumption1 ,pasteur's factory of hydrophobia and ,brown-,sequard's elixir of life4 ,these three failures1 gigantic1 absurd1 ludicrous1 are the great accomplishment of vivisection4 ,surgery has advanced1 not by the heartless tormentors of animals1 but by the use of anesthetics--that is to say1 chloroform1 ether and cocaine4 ,the cruel wretches1 the scientific assassins1 have accomplished nothing4 ,hundreds of thousands of animals have suffered every pain that nerves can feel1 and all for nothing--nothing except to harden the heart and to make criminals of men4 ,they have not given anesthetics to these animals1 but they have been guilty of the last step in cruelty4 ,they have given curare1 a drug that attacks the centers of motion1 that makes it impossible for the animal to move1 so that when under its influence1 no matter what the pain may be1 the animal lies still4 ,this curare not only destroys the power of motion1 but increases the sensitiveness of the nerves4 ,to give this drug and then to dissect the living animal is the extreme of cruelty4 ,beyond this1 heartlessness cannot go4 ,question4 ,do you know that you have been greatly criticized for what you have said on this subject8 ,answer4 ,yes2 ,i have read many criticisms2 but what of that4 ,it is impossible for the ingenuity of man to say anything in defence of cruelty--of heartlessness4 ,so1 it is impossible for the defenders of vivisection to show any good that has been accomplished without the use of anesthetics4 ,the chemist ought to be able to determine what is and what is not poison4 ,there is no need of torturing the animals4 ,so1 this giving to animals diseases is of no importance to man--not the slightest2 and nothing has been discovered in bacteriology so far that has been of use or that is of benefit4 ,personally1 ,i admit that all have the right to criticise2 and my answer to the critics is1 that they do not know the facts2 or1 knowing them1 they are interested in preventing a knowledge of these facts coming to the public4 ,vivisection should be controlled by law4 ,no animal should be allowed to be tortured4 ,and to cut up a living animal not under the influence of chloroform or ether1 should be a penitentiary offence4 ,a perfect reply to all the critics who insist that great good has been done is to repeat the three names--,koch1 ,pasteur and ,brown- ,sequard4 ,the foundation of civilization is not cruelty2 it is justice1 generosity1 mercy4 --,evening ,telegram1 ,new ,york1 ,september #cj1 #ahic4 ,,divorce4 ,question4 ,the ,herald would like to have you give your ideas on divorce4 ,on last ,sunday in your lecture you said a few words on the subject1 but only a few4 ,do you think the laws governing divorce ought to be changed8 ,answer4 ,we obtained our ideas about divorce from the ,hebrews-- from the ,new ,testament and the church4 ,in the ,old ,testament woman is not considered of much importance4 ,the wife was the property of the husband4 ,thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's ox or his wife4 ,in this commandment the wife is put on an equality with other property1 so under certain conditions the husband could put away his wife1 but the wife could not put away her husband4 ,in the ,new ,testament there is little in favor of marriage1 and really nothing as to the rights of wives4 ,christ said nothing in favor of marriage1 and never married4 ,so far as ,i know1 none of the apostles had families4 ,st4 ,paul was opposed to marriage1 and allowed it only as a choice of evils4 ,in those days it was imagined by the ,christians that the world was about to be purified by fire1 and that they would be changed into angels4 ,the early ,christians were opposed to marriage1 and the fathers looked upon woman as the source of all evil4 ,they did not believe in divorces4 ,they thought that if people loved each other better than they did ,god1 and got married1 they ought to be held to the bargain1 no matter what happened4 ,these fathers were1 for the most part1 ignorant and hateful savages1 and had no more idea of right and wrong than wild beasts4 ,the church insisted that marriage was a sacrament1 and that ,god1 in some mysterious way1 joined husband and wife in marriage--that he was one of the parties to the contract1 and that only death could end it4 ,of course1 this supernatural view of marriage is perfectly absurd4 ,if there be a ,god1 there certainly have been marriages he did not approve1 and certain it is that ,god can have no interest in keeping husbands and wives together who never should have married4 ,some of the preachers insist that ,god instituted marriage in the ,garden of ,eden4 ,we now know that there was no ,garden of ,eden1 and that woman was not made from the first man's rib4 ,nobody with any real sense believes this now4 ,the institution of marriage was not established by ,jehovah4 ,neither was it established by ,christ1 not any of his apostles4 ,in considering the question of divorce1 the supernatural should be discarded4 ,we should take into consideration only the effect upon human beings4 ,the gods should be allowed to take care of themselves4 ,is it to the interest of a husband and wife to live together after love has perished and when they hate each other8 ,will this add to their happiness8 ,should a woman be compelled to remain the wife of a man who hates and abuses her1 and whom she loathes8 ,has society any interest in forcing women to live with men they hate8 ,there is no real marriage without love1 and in the marriage state there is no morality without love4 ,a woman who remains the wife of a man whom she despises1 or does not love1 corrupts her soul4 ,she becomes degraded1 polluted1 and feels that her flesh has been soiled4 ,under such circumstances a good woman suffers the agonies of moral death4 ,it may be said that the woman can leave her husband2 that she is not compelled to live in the same house or to occupy the same room4 ,if she has the right to leave1 has she the right to get a new house8 ,should a woman be punished for having married8 ,women do not marry the wrong men on purpose4 ,thousands of mistakes are made--are these mistakes sacred8 ,must they be preserved to please ,god8 ,what good can it do ,god to keep people married who hate each other8 ,what good can it do the community to keep such people together8 ,question4 ,do you consider marriage a contract or a sacrament8 ,answer4 ,marriage is the most important contract that human beings can make4 ,no matter whether it is called a contract or a sacrament1 it remains the same4 ,a true marriage is a natural concord or agreement of souls--a harmony in which discord is not even imagined4 ,it is a mingling so perfect that only one seems to exist4 ,all other considerations are lost4 ,the present seems eternal4 ,in this supreme moment there is no shadow1 or the shadow is as luminous as light4 ,when two beings thus love1 thus united1 this is the true marriage of soul and soul4 ,the idea of contract is lost4 ,duty and obligation are instantly changed into desire and joy1 and two lives1 like uniting streams1 flow on as one4 ,this is real marriage4 ,now1 if the man turns out to be a wild beast1 if he destroys the happiness of the wife1 why should she remain his victim8 ,if she wants a divorce1 she should have it4 ,the divorce will not hurt ,god or the community4 ,as a matter of fact1 it will save a life4 ,no man not poisoned by superstition will object to the release of an abused wife4 ,in such a case only savages can object to divorce4 ,the man who wants courts and legislatures to force a woman to live with him is a monster4 ,question4 ,do you believe that the divorced should be allowed to marry again8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,has the woman whose rights have been outraged no right to build another home8 ,must this woman1 full of kindness1 affection and health1 be chained until death releases her8 ,is there no future for her8 ,must she be an outcast forever8 ,can she never sit by her own hearth1 with the arms of her children about her neck1 and by her side a husband who loves and protects her8 ,there are no two sides to this question4 ,all human beings should be allowed to correct their mistakes4 ,if the wife has flagrantly violated the contract of marriage1 the husband should be given a divorce4 ,if the wife wants a divorce1 if she loathes her husband1 if she no longer loves him1 then the divorce should be granted4 ,it is immoral for a woman to live as the wife of a man whom she abhors4 ,the home should be pure4 ,children should be well-born4 ,their parents should love one another4 ,marriages are made by men and women1 not by society1 not by the state1 not by the church1 not by the gods4 ,nothing is moral1 that does not tend to the well-being of sentient beings4 ,the good home is the unit of good government4 ,the hearthstone is the corner-stone of civilization4 ,society is not interested in the preservation of hateful homes4 ,it is not to the interest of society that good women should be enslaved or that they should become mothers by husbands whom they hate4 ,most of the laws about divorce are absurd or cruel1 and ought to be repealed4 --,the ,herald1 ,new ,york1 ,february1 #ahig4 ,,music1 ,,newspapers1 ,,lynching ,,and ,,arbitration4 ,question4 ,how do you enjoy staying in ,chicago8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i am about as happy as a man can be when he is away from home4 ,i was at the opera last night4 ,i am always happy when ,i hear the music of ,wagner interpreted by such a genius as ,seidl4 ,i do not believe there is a man in the world who has in his brain and heart more of the real spirit of ,wagner than ,anton ,seidl4 ,he knows how to lead1 how to phrase and shade1 how to rush and how to linger1 and to express every passion and every mood4 ,so ,i was happy last night to hear him4 ,then ,i heard ,edouard de ,reszke1 the best of bass singers1 with tones of a great organ1 and others soft and liquid1 and ,jean de ,reszke1 a great tenor1 who sings the ,swan ,song as though inspired2 and ,i liked ,bispham1 but hated his part4 ,he is a great singer2 so is ,mme4 ,litvinne4 ,so1 ,i can say that ,i am enjoying ,chicago4 ,in fact1 ,i always did4 ,i was here when the town was small1 not much more than huts and hogs1 lumber and mud2 and now it is one of the greatest of cities4 ,it makes me happy just to think of the difference4 ,i was born the year ,chicago was incorporated4 ,in my time matches were invented4 ,steam navigation became really useful4 ,the telegraph was invented4 ,gas was discovered and applied to practical uses1 and electricity was made known in its practical workings to mankind4 ,thus1 it is seen the world is progressing2 men are becoming civilized4 ,but the process of civilization even now is slow4 ,in one or two thousand years we may hope to see a vast improvement in man's condition4 ,we may expect to have the employer so far civilized that he will not try to make money for money's sake1 but in order that he may apply it to good uses1 to the amelioration of his fellow-man's condition4 ,we may also expect the see the workingman1 the employee1 so far civilized that he will know it is impossible and undesirable for him to attempt to fix the wages paid by his employer4 ,we may in a thousand or more years reasonably expect that the employee will be so far civilized and become sufficiently sensible to know that strikes and threats and mob violence can never improve his condition4 ,altruism is nonsense1 craziness4 ,question4 ,is ,chicago as liberal1 intellectually1 as ,new ,york8 ,answer4 ,i think so4 ,of course you will find thousands of free1 thoughtful people in ,new ,york--people who think and want others to do the same4 ,so1 there are thousands of respectable people who are centuries behind the age4 ,in other words1 you will find all kinds4 ,i presume the same is true of ,chicago4 ,i find many liberal people here1 and some not quite so liberal4 ,some of the papers here seem to be edited by real pious men4 ,on last ,tuesday the ,times-,herald asked pardon of its readers for having given a report of my lecture4 ,that editor must be pious4 ,in the same paper1 columns were given to the prospective prize- fight at ,carson ,city4 ,all the news about the good ,corbett and the orthodox ,fitzsimmons--about the training of the gentlemen who are going to attack each others' jugulars and noses2 who are expected to break jaws1 blacken eyes1 and peel foreheads in a few days1 to settle the question of which can bear the most pounding4 ,in this great contest and in all its vulgar details1 the readers of the ,times-,herald are believed by the editor of that religious daily to take great interest4 ,the editor did not ask the pardon of his readers for giving so much space to the nose-smashing sport4 ,no6 ,he knew that would fill their souls with delight1 and1 so knowing1 he reached the correct conclusion that such people would not enjoy anything ,i had said4 ,the editor did a wise thing and catered to a large majority of his readers4 ,i do not think that we have as religious a daily paper in ,new ,york as the ,times-,herald4 ,so the editor of the ,times- ,herald took the ground that men with little learning1 in youth1 might be agnostic1 but as they grew sensible they would become orthodox4 ,when he wrote that he was probably thinking of ,humboldt and ,darwin1 of ,huxley and ,haeckel4 ,may be ,herbert ,spencer was in his mind1 but ,i think that he must have been thinking of a few boys in his native village4 ,question4 ,what do you think about prize-fighting anyway8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i think that prize-fighting is worse1 if possible1 than revival meetings4 ,next to fighting to kill1 as they did in the old ,roman days1 ,i think the modern prize-fight is the most disgusting and degrading of exhibitions4 ,all fights1 whether cock- fights1 bull-fights or pugilistic encounters1 are practiced and enjoyed only by savages4 ,no matter what office they hold1 what wealth or education they have1 they are simply savages4 ,under no possible circumstances would ,i witness a prize-fight or a bull- fight or a dog-fight4 ,the ,marquis of ,queensbury was once at my house1 and ,i found his opinions were the same as mine4 ,everyone thinks that he had something to do with the sport of prize-fighting1 but he did not1 except to make some rules once for a college boxing contest4 ,he told me that he never saw but one prize-fight in his life1 and that it made him sick4 ,question4 ,how are you on the arbitration treaty8 ,answer4 ,i am for it with all my heart4 ,i have read it1 and read it with care1 and to me it seems absolutely fair4 ,england and ,america should set an example to the world4 ,the ,english-speaking people have reason enough and sense enough1 ,i hope1 to settle their differences by argument--by reason4 ,let us get the wild beast out of us4 ,two great nations like ,england and ,america appealing to force1 arguing with shot and shell6 ,what is education worth8 ,is what we call civilization a sham8 ,yes1 ,i believe in peace1 in arbitration1 in settling disputes like reasonable1 human beings4 ,all that war can do is to determine who is the stronger4 ,it throws no light on any question1 addresses no argument4 ,there is a point to a bayonet1 but no logic4 ,after the war is over the victory does not tell which nation was right4 ,civilized men take their differences to courts or arbitrators4 ,civilized nations should do the same4 ,there ought to be an international court4 ,let every man do all he can to prevent war--to prevent the waste1 the cruelties1 the horrors that follow every flag on every field of battle4 ,it is time that man was human--time that the beast was out of his heart4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,mc,kinley's inaugural8 ,answer4 ,it is good1 honest1 clear1 patriotic and sensible4 ,there is one thing in it that touched me2 ,i agree with him that lynching has to be stopped4 ,you see that now we are citizens of the ,united ,states1 not simply of the ,state in which we happen to live4 ,i take the ground that it is the business of the ,united ,states to protect its citizens1 not only when they are in some other country1 but when they are at home4 ,the ,united ,states cannot discharge this obligation by allowing the ,states to do as they please4 ,where citizens are being lynched the ,government should interfere4 ,if the ,governor of some barbarian ,state says that he cannot protect the lives of citizens1 then the ,united ,states should1 if it took the entire ,army and ,navy4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of charity organizations8 ,answer4 ,i think that the people who support them are good and generous--splendid--but ,i have a poor opinion of the people in charge4 ,as a rule1 ,i think they are cold1 impudent and heartless4 ,there is too much circumlocution1 or too many details and too little humanity4 ,the ,jews are exceedingly charitable4 ,i think that in ,new ,york the men who are doing the most for their fellow-men are ,jews4 ,nathan ,strauss is trying to feed the hungry1 warm the cold1 and clothe the naked4 ,for the most part1 organized charities are1 ,i think1 failures4 ,a real charity has to be in the control of a good man1 a real sympathetic1 a sensible man1 one who helps others to help themselves4 ,let a hungry man go to an organized society and it requires several days to satisfy the officers that the man is hungry4 ,meanwhile he will probably starve to death4 ,question4 ,do you believe in free text-books in the public schools8 ,answer4 ,i do not care about the text-book question4 ,but ,i am in favor of the public school4 ,nothing should be taught that somebody does not know4 ,no superstitions--nothing but science4 ,question4 ,there has been a good deal said lately about your suicide theology1 ,colonel4 ,do you still believe that suicide is justifiable8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,when a man is useless to himself and to others he has a right to determine what he will do about living4 ,the only thing to be considered is a man's obligation to his fellow- beings and to himself4 ,i don't take into consideration any supernatural nonsense4 ,if ,god wants a man to stay here he ought to make it more comfortable for him4 ,question4 ,since you expounded your justification of suicide1 ,colonel1 ,i believe you have had some cases of suicide laid at your door8 ,answer4 ,oh1 yes4 ,every suicide that has happened since that time has been charged to me4 ,i don't know how the people account for the suicides before my time4 ,i have not yet heard of my being charged with the death of ,cato1 but that may yet come to pass4 ,i was reading the other day that the rate of suicide in ,germany is increasing4 ,i suppose my article has been translated into ,german4 ,question4 ,how about lying1 ,colonel8 ,is it ever right to lie8 ,answer4 ,of course1 sometimes4 ,in war when a man is captured by the enemy he ought to lie to them to mislead them4 ,what we call strategy is nothing more than lies4 ,for the accomplishment of a good end1 for instance1 the saving of a woman's reputation1 it is many times perfectly right to lie4 ,as a rule1 people ought to tell the truth4 ,if it is right to kill a man to save your own life it certainly ought to be right to fool him for the same purpose4 ,i would rather be deceived than killed1 wouldn't you8 --,the ,inter-,ocean1 ,chicago1 ,illinois1 ,march1 #ahig4 ,a ,,visit ,,to ,,shaw',s ,,garden4 ,question4 ,i was told that you came to ,st4 ,louis on your wedding trip some thirty years ago and went to ,shaw's ,garden8 ,answer4 ,yes2 we were married on the #acth of ,february1 #ahfb4 ,we were here in ,st4 ,louis1 and we did visit ,shaw's ,garden1 and we thought it perfectly beautiful4 ,afterward we visited the ,kew ,gardens in ,london1 but our remembrance of ,shaw's left ,kew in the shade4 ,of course1 ,i have been in ,st4 ,louis many times1 my first visit being1 ,i think1 in #ahed4 ,i have always liked the town4 ,i was acquainted at one time with a great many of your old citizens4 ,most of them have died1 and ,i know but few of the present generation4 ,i used to stop at the old ,planter's ,house1 and ,i was there quite often during the war4 ,in those days ,i saw ,hackett as ,falstaff1 the best ,falstaff that ever lived4 ,ben de ,bar was here then1 and the ,maddern sisters1 and now the daughter of one of the sisters1 ,minnie ,maddern ,fiske1 is one of the greatest actresses in the world4 ,she has made a wonderful hit in ,new ,york this season4 ,and so the ebb and flow of life goes on--the old pass and the young arrive4 ,death and progress6 ,it may be that death is1 after all1 a great blessing4 ,maybe it gives zest and flavor to life1 ardor and flame to love4 ,at the same time ,i say1 long life to all my friends4 ,i want to live--,i get great happiness out of life4 ,i enjoy the company of my friends4 ,i enjoy seeing the faces of the ones ,i love4 ,i enjoy art and music4 ,i love ,shakespeare and ,burns2 love to hear the music of ,wagner2 love to see a good play4 ,i take pleasure in eating and sleeping4 ,the fact is1 ,i like to breathe4 ,i want to get all the happiness out of life that ,i can4 ,i want to suck the orange dry1 so that when death comes nothing but the peelings will be left1 and so ,i say3 ,long life6 --,the ,republic1 ,st4 ,louis1 ,april #aa1 #ahig4 ,,the ,,venezuelan ,,boundary ,,discussion ,,and ,,the ,,whipping-,,post4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion as to the action of the ,president on the ,venezuelan matter8 ,answer4 ,in my judgment1 the ,president acted in haste and without thought4 ,it may be said that it would have been well enough for him to have laid the correspondence before ,congress and asked for an appropriation for a commission to ascertain the facts1 to the end that our ,government might intelligently act4 ,there was no propriety in going further than that4 ,to almost declare war before the facts were known was a blunder--almost a crime4 ,for my part1 ,i do not think the ,monroe doctrine has anything to do with the case4 ,mr4 ,olney reasons badly1 and it is only by a perversion of facts1 and an exaggeration of facts1 and by calling in question the motives of ,england that it is possible to conclude that the ,monroe doctrine has or can have anything to do with the controversy4 ,the ,president went out of his way to find a cause of quarrel4 ,nobody doubts the courage of the ,american people1 and we for that reason can afford to be sensible and prudent4 ,valor and discretion should go together4 ,nobody doubts the courage of ,england4 ,america and ,england are the leading nations1 and in their keeping1 to a great extent1 is the glory of the future4 ,they should be at peace4 ,should a difference arise it should be settled without recourse to war4 ,fighting settles nothing but the relative strength4 ,no light is thrown on the cause of the conflict--on the question or fact that caused the war4 ,question4 ,do you think that there is any danger of war8 ,answer4 ,if the members of ,congress really represent the people1 then there is danger4 ,but ,i do not believe the people will really want to fight about a few square miles of malarial territory in ,venezuela--something in which they have no earthly or heavenly interest4 ,the people do not wish to fight for fight's sake4 ,when they understand the question they will regard the administration as almost insane4 ,the message has already cost us more than the ,war of #ahab or the ,mexican war1 or both4 ,stocks and bonds have decreased in value several hundred millions1 and the end is not yet4 ,it may be that it will1 on account of the panic1 be impossible for the ,government to maintain the gold standard--the reserve4 ,then gold would command a premium1 the ,government would be unable to redeem the greenbacks1 and the result would be financial chaos1 and all this the result of ,mr4 ,cleveland's curiosity about a boundary line between two countries1 in neither of which we have any interest1 and this curiosity has already cost us more than both countries1 including the boundary line1 are worth4 ,the ,president made a great mistake4 ,so did the ,house and ,senate1 and the poor people have paid a part of the cost4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the ,gerry ,whipping ,post bill8 ,answer4 ,i see that it has passed the ,senate1 and yet ,i think it is a disgrace to the ,state4 ,how the ,senators can go back to torture1 to the ,dark ,ages1 to the custom of savagery1 is beyond belief4 ,i hope that the ,house is nearer civilized1 and that the infamous bill will be defeated4 ,if1 however1 the bill should pass1 then ,i hope ,governor ,morton will veto it4 ,nothing is more disgusting1 more degrading1 than the whipping-post4 ,it degrades the whipped and the whipper4 ,it degrades all who witness the flogging4 ,what kind of a person will do the whipping8 ,men who would apply the lash to the naked backs of criminals would have to be as low as the criminals1 and probably a little lower4 ,the shadow of the whipping-post does not fall on any civilized country1 and never will4 ,the next thing we know ,mr4 ,gerry will probably introduce some bill to brand criminals on the forehead or cut off their ears and slit their noses4 ,this is in the same line1 and is born of the same hellish spirit4 ,there is no reforming power in torture1 in bruising and mangling the flesh4 ,if the bill becomes a law1 ,i hope it will provide that the lash shall be applied by ,mr4 ,gerry and his successors in office4 ,let these pretended enemies of cruelty enjoy themselves4 ,if the bill passes1 ,i presume ,mr4 ,gerry could get a supply of knouts from ,russia1 as that country has just abolished the whipping-post4 --,the ,journal1 ,new ,york1 ,december #bd1 #ahie4 ,,colonel ,,shepard',s ,,stage ,,horses499 99 ,one of ,colonel ,shepard's equine wrecks was picked up on ,fifth avenue yesterday by the ,prevention of ,cruelty ,society1 and was laid up for repairs4 ,the horse was about twenty- eight years old1 badly foundered1 and its leg was cut and bleeding4 ,it was the leader of three that had been hauling a ,fifth avenue stage1 and1 according to the ,society's agents1 was in about as bad a condition as a horse could be and keep on his feet4 ,the other two horses were little better1 neither of them being fit to drive4 ,colonel ,shepard's scrawny nags have long been an eyesore to ,colonel ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll1 who is compelled to see them from his windows at number #djj ,fifth avenue4 ,he said last night3 ,it might not be in good taste for me to say anything about ,colonel ,shepard's horses4 ,he might think me prejudiced4 ,but ,i am satisfied horses cannot live on faith or on the substance of things hoped for4 ,it is far better for the horse1 to feed him without praying1 than to pray without feeding him4 ,it is better to be kind even to animals1 than to quote ,scripture in small capitals4 ,now1 ,i am not saying anything against ,colonel ,shepard4 ,i do not know how he feeds his horses4 ,if he is as good and kind as he is pious1 then ,i have nothing to say4 ,maybe he does not allow the horses to break the ,sabbath by eating4 ,they are so slow that they make one think of a fast4 ,they put me in mind of the ,garden of ,eden--the rib story4 ,when ,i watch them on the avenue ,i1 too1 fall to quoting ,scripture1 and say1 ,can these dry bones live8 ,still1 ,i have a delicacy on this subject2 ,i hate to think about it1 and ,i think the horses feel the same way4 --,morning ,advertiser1 ,new ,york1 ,january #ba1 #ahib4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,rev4 ,l4 ,a4 ,,banks4 ,question4 ,have you read the remarks made about you by the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,banks1 and what do you think of what he said8 ,answer4 ,the reverend gentleman pays me a great compliment by comparing me to a circus4 ,everybody enjoys the circus4 ,they love to see the acrobats1 the walkers on the tight rope1 the beautiful girls on the horses1 and they laugh at the wit of the clowns4 ,they are delighted with the jugglers1 with the music of the band4 ,they drink the lemonade1 eat the colored popcorn and laugh until they nearly roll off their seats4 ,now the circus has a few animals so that ,christians can have an excuse for going4 ,think of the joy the circus gives to the boys and girls4 ,they look at the show bills1 see the men and women flying through the air1 bursting through paper hoops1 the elephants standing on their heads1 and the clowns1 in curious clothes1 with hands on their knees and open mouths1 supposed to be filled with laughter4 ,all the boys and girls for many miles around know the blessed day4 ,they save their money1 obey their parents1 and when the circus comes they are on hand4 ,they see the procession and then they see the show4 ,they are all happy4 ,no sermon ever pleased them as much1 and in comparison even the ,sunday school is tame and dull4 ,to feel that ,i have given as much joy as the circus fills me with pleasure4 ,what chance would the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,banks stand against a circus8 ,the reverend gentleman has done me a great honor1 and ,i tender him my sincere thanks4 ,question4 ,dr4 ,banks says that you write only one lecture a year1 while preachers write a brand new one every week--that if you did that people would tire of you4 ,what have you to say to that8 ,answer4 ,it may be that great artists paint only one picture a year1 and it may be that sign painters can do several jobs a day4 ,still1 ,i would not say that the sign painters were superior to the artists4 ,there is quite a difference between a sculptor and a stone-cutter4 ,there are thousands of preachers and thousands and thousands of sermons preached every year4 ,has any orthodox minister in the year #ahih given just one paragraph to literature8 ,has any orthodox preacher uttered one great thought1 clothed in perfect ,english that thrilled the hearers like music--one great strophe that became one of the treasures of memory8 ,i will make the question a little clearer4 ,has any orthodox preacher1 or any preacher in an orthodox pulpit uttered a paragraph of what may be called sculptured speech since ,henry ,ward ,beecher died8 ,i do not wonder that the sermons are poor4 ,their doctrines have been discussed for centuries4 ,there is little chance for originality2 they not only thresh old straw1 but the thresh straw that has been threshed a million times--straw in which there has not been a grain of wheat for hundreds of years4 ,no wonder that they have nervous prostration4 ,no wonder that they need vacations1 and no wonder that their congregations enjoy the vacations as keenly as the ministers themselves4 ,better deliver a real good address fifty-two times than fifty-two poor ones--just for the sake of variety4 ,question4 ,dr4 ,banks says that the tendency at present is not toward ,agnosticism1 but toward ,christianity4 ,what is your opinion8 ,answer4 ,when ,i was a boy ,infidels were very rare4 ,a man who denied the inspiration of the ,bible was regarded as a monster4 ,now there are in this country millions who regard the ,bible as the work of ignorant and superstitious men4 ,a few years ago the ,bible was the standard4 ,all scientific theories were tested by the ,bible4 ,now science is the standard and the ,bible is tested by that4 ,dr4 ,banks did not mention the names of the great scientists who are or were ,christians1 but he probably thought of ,laplace1 ,humboldt1 ,haeckel1 ,huxley1 ,spencer1 ,tyndall1 ,darwin1 ,helmholtz and ,draper4 ,when he spoke of ,christian statesmen he likely thought of ,jefferson1 ,franklin1 ,washington1 ,paine and ,lincoln--or he may have thought of ,pierce1 ,fillmore and ,buchanan4 ,but1 after all1 there is no argument in names4 ,a man is not necessarily great because he holds office or wears a crown or talks in a pulpit4 ,facts1 reasons1 are better than names4 ,but it seems to me that nothing can be plainer than that the church is losing ground--that the people are discarding the creeds and that superstition has passed the zenith of its power4 ,question4 ,dr4 ,banks says that ,christ did not mention the ,western ,hemisphere because ,god does nothing for men that they can do for themselves4 ,what have you to say8 ,answer4 ,christ said nothing about the ,western ,hemisphere because he did not know that it existed4 ,he did not know the shape of the earth4 ,he was not a scientist--never even hinted at any science-- never told anybody to investigate--to think4 ,his idea was that this life should be spent in preparing for the next4 ,for all the evils of this life1 and the next1 faith was his remedy4 ,i see from the report in the paper that ,dr4 ,banks1 after making the remarks about me preached a sermon on ,herod the ,villain in the ,drama of ,christ4 ,who made ,herod8 ,dr4 ,banks will answer that ,god made him4 ,did ,god know what ,herod would do8 ,yes4 ,did he know that he would cause the children to be slaughtered in his vain efforts to kill the infant ,christ8 ,yes4 ,dr4 ,banks will say that ,god is not responsible for ,herod because he gave ,herod freedom4 ,did ,god know how ,herod would use his freedom8 ,did he know that he would become the villain in the drama of ,christ8 ,yes4 ,who1 then1 is really responsible for the acts of ,herod8 ,if ,i could change a stone into a human being1 and if ,i could give this being freedom of will1 and if ,i knew that if ,i made him he would murder a man1 and if with that knowledge ,i made him1 and he did commit a murder1 who would be the real murderer8 ,will ,dr4 ,banks in his fifty-two sermons of next year show that his ,god is not responsible for the crimes of ,herod8 ,no doubt ,dr4 ,banks is a good man1 and no doubt he thinks that liberty of thought leads to hell1 and honestly believes that all doubt comes from the ,devil4 ,i do not blame him4 ,he thinks as he must4 ,he is a product of conditions4 ,he ought to be my friend because ,i am doing the best ,i can to civilize his congregation4 --,the ,plain ,dealer1 ,cleveland1 ,ohio1 #ahih4 ,,cuba--,,zola ,,and ,,theosophy4 ,question4 ,what do you think1 ,colonel1 of the ,cuban question8 ,answer4 ,what ,i know about this question is known by all4 ,i suppose that the ,president has information that ,i know nothing about4 ,of course1 all my sympathies are with the ,cubans4 ,they are making a desperate--an heroic struggle for their freedom4 ,for many years they have been robbed and trampled under foot4 ,spain is1 and always has been1 a terrible master--heartless and infamous4 ,there is no language with which to tell what ,cuba has suffered4 ,in my judgment1 this country should assist the ,cubans4 ,we ought to acknowledge the independence of that island1 and we ought to feed the starving victims of ,spain4 ,for years we have been helping ,spain4 ,cleveland did all he could to prevent the ,cubans from getting arms and men4 ,this was a criminal mistake--a mistake that even ,spain did not appreciate4 ,all this should instantly be reversed1 and we should give aid to ,cuba4 ,the war that ,spain is waging shocks every civilized man4 ,spain has always been the same4 ,in ,holland1 in ,peru1 in ,mexico1 she was infinitely cruel1 and she is the same to-day4 ,she loves to torture1 to imprison1 to degrade1 to kill4 ,her idea of perfect happiness is to shed blood4 ,spain is a legacy of the ,dark ,ages4 ,she belongs to the den1 the cave period4 ,she has no business to exist4 ,she is a blot1 a stain on the map of the world4 ,of course there are some good ,spaniards1 but they are not in control4 ,i want ,cuba to be free4 ,i want ,spain driven from the ,western ,world4 ,she has already starved five hundred thousand ,cubans--poor1 helpless non-combatants4 ,among the helpless she is like a hyena--a tiger among lambs4 ,this country ought to stop this gigantic crime4 ,we should do this in the name of humanity--for the sake of the starving1 the dying4 ,question4 ,do you think we are going to have war with ,spain8 ,answer4 ,i do not think there will be war4 ,unless ,spain is insane1 she will not attack the ,united ,states4 ,she is bankrupt4 ,no nation will assist her4 ,a civilized nation would be ashamed to take her hand1 to be her friend4 ,she has not the power to put down the rebellion in ,cuba4 ,how then can she hope to conquer this country8 ,she is full of brag and bluster4 ,of course she will play her hand for all it is worth1 so far as talk goes4 ,she will double her fists and make motions4 ,she will assume the attitude of war1 but she will never fight4 ,should she commence hostilities1 the war would be short4 ,she would lose her navy4 ,the little commerce she has would be driven from the sea4 ,she would drink to the dregs the cup of humiliation and disgrace4 ,i do not believe that ,spain is insane enough to fire upon our flag4 ,i know that there is nothing too mean1 too cruel for her to do1 but still she must have sense enough to try and save her own life4 ,no1 ,i think there will be no war1 but ,i believe that ,cuba will be free4 ,my opinion is that the ,maine was blown up from the outside--blown up by ,spanish officers1 and ,i think the report of the ,board will be to that effect4 ,such a crime ought to redden even the cheeks of ,spain4 ,as soon as this fact is known1 other nations will regard ,spain with hatred and horror4 ,if the ,maine was destroyed by ,spain we will ask for indemnity4 ,the people insist that the account be settled and at once4 ,possibly we may attack ,spain4 ,there is the only danger of war4 ,we must avenge that crime4 ,the destruction of two hundred and fifty-nine ,americans must be avenged4 ,free ,cuba must be their monument4 ,i hope for the sake of human nature that the ,spanish did not destroy the ,maine4 ,i hope it was the result of an accident4 ,i hope there is to be no war1 but ,spain must be driven from the ,new ,world4 ,question4 ,what about ,zola's trial and conviction8 ,answer4 ,it was one of the most infamous trials in the history of the world4 ,zola is a great man1 a genius1 the best man in ,france4 ,his trial was a travesty on justice4 ,the judge acted like a bandit4 ,the proceedings were a disgrace to human nature4 ,the jurors must have been ignorant beasts4 ,the ,french have disgraced themselves4 ,long live ,zola4 ,question4 ,having expressed yourself less upon the subject of ,theosophy than upon other religious beliefs1 and as ,theosophy denies the existence of a ,god as worshiped by ,christianity1 what is your idea of the creed8 ,answer4 ,insanity4 ,i think it is a mild form of delusion and illusion2 vague1 misty1 obscure1 half dream1 mixed with other mistakes and fragments of facts--a little philosophy1 absurdity-- a few impossibilities--some improbabilities--some accounts of events that never happened--some prophecies that will not come to pass-- a structure without foundation4 ,but the ,theosophists are good people2 kind and honest4 ,theosophy is based on the supernatural and is just as absurd as the orthodox creeds4 --,the ,courier-,journal1 ,louisville1 ,ky41 ,february1 #ahih4 ,,how ,,to ,,become ,,an ,,orator4 ,question4 ,what advice would you give to a young man who was ambitious to become a successful public speaker or orator8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 ,i would advise him to have something to say--something worth saying--something that people would be glad to hear4 ,this is the important thing4 ,back of the art of speaking must be the power to think4 ,without thoughts words are empty purses4 ,most people imagine that almost any words uttered in a loud voice and accompanied by appropriate gestures1 constitute an oration4 ,i would advise the young man to study his subject1 to find what others had thought1 to look at it from all sides4 ,then ,i would tell him to write out his thoughts or to arrange them in his mind1 so that he would know exactly what he was going to say4 ,waste no time on the how until you are satisfied with the what4 ,after you know what you are to say1 then you can think of how it should be said4 ,then you can think about tone1 emphasis1 and gesture2 but if you really understand what you say1 emphasis1 tone1 and gesture will take care of themselves4 ,all these should come from the inside4 ,they should be in perfect harmony with the feelings4 ,voice and gesture should be governed by the emotions4 ,they should unconsciously be in perfect agreement with the sentiments4 ,the orator should be true to his subject1 should avoid any reference to himself4 ,the great column of his argument should be unbroken4 ,he can adorn it with vines and flowers1 but they should not be in such profusion as to hide the column4 ,he should give variety of episode by illustrations1 but they should be used only for the purpose of adding strength to the argument4 ,the man who wishes to become an orator should study language4 ,he should know the deeper meaning of words4 ,he should understand the vigor and velocity of verbs and the color of adjectives4 ,he should know how to sketch a scene1 to paint a picture1 to give life and action4 ,he should be a poet and a dramatist1 a painter and an actor4 ,he should cultivate his imagination4 ,he should become familiar with the great poetry and fiction1 with splendid and heroic deeds4 ,he should be a student of ,shakespeare4 ,he should read and devour the great plays4 ,from ,shakespeare he could learn the art of expression1 of compression1 and all the secrets of the head and heart4 ,the great orator is full of variety--of surprises4 ,like a juggler1 he keeps the colored balls in the air4 ,he expresses himself in pictures4 ,his speech is a panorama4 ,by continued change he holds the attention4 ,the interest does not flag4 ,he does not allow himself to be anticipated4 ,a picture is shown but once4 ,so1 an orator should avoid the commonplace4 ,there should be no stuffing1 no filling4 ,he should put no cotton with his silk1 no common metals with his gold4 ,he should remember that gilded dust is not as good as dusted gold4 ,the great orator is honest1 sincere4 ,he does not pretend4 ,his brain and heart go together4 ,every drop of his blood is convinced4 ,nothing is forced4 ,he knows exactly what he wishes to do--knows when he has finished it1 and stops4 ,only a great orator knows when and how to close4 ,most speakers go on after they are through4 ,they are satisfied only with a lame and impotent conclusion4 ,most speakers lack variety4 ,they travel a straight and dusty road4 ,the great orator is full of episode4 ,he convinces and charms by indirection4 ,he leaves the road1 visits the fields1 wanders in the woods1 listens to the murmurs of springs1 the songs of birds4 ,he gathers flowers1 scales the crags and comes back to the highway refreshed1 invigorated4 ,he does not move in a straight line4 ,he wanders and winds like a stream4 ,of course1 no one can tell a man what to do to become an orator4 ,the great orator has that wonderful thing called presence4 ,he has that strange something known as magnetism4 ,he must have a flexible1 musical voice1 capable of expressing the pathetic1 the humorous1 the heroic4 ,his body must move in unison with his thought4 ,he must be a reasoner1 a logician4 ,he must have a keen sense of humor --of the laughable4 ,he must have wit1 sharp and quick4 ,he must have sympathy4 ,his smiles should be the neighbors of his tears4 ,he must have imagination4 ,he should give eagles to the air1 and painted moths should flutter in the sunlight4 ,while ,i cannot tell a man what to do to become an orator1 ,i can tell him a few things not to do4 ,there should be no introduction to an oration4 ,the orator should commence with his subject4 ,there should be no prelude1 no flourish1 no apology1 no explanation4 ,he should say nothing about himself4 ,like a sculptor1 he stands by his block of stone4 ,every stroke is for a purpose4 ,as he works the form begins to appear4 ,when the statue is finished the workman stops4 ,nothing is more difficult than a perfect close4 ,few poems1 few pieces of music1 few novels end well4 ,a good story1 a great speech1 a perfect poem should end just at the proper point4 ,the bud1 the blossom1 the fruit4 ,no delay4 ,a great speech is a crystallization in its logic1 an efflorescence in its poetry4 ,i have not heard many speeches4 ,most of the great speakers in our country were before my time4 ,i heard ,beecher1 and he was an orator4 ,he had imagination1 humor and intensity4 ,his brain was as fertile as the valleys of the tropics4 ,he was too broad1 too philosophic1 too poetic for the pulpit4 ,now and then1 he broke the fetters of his creed1 escaped from his orthodox prison1 and became sublime4 ,theodore ,parker was an orator4 ,he preached great sermons4 ,his sermons on ,old ,age and ,webster1 and his address on ,liberty were filled with great thoughts1 marvelously expressed4 ,when he dealt with human events1 with realities1 with things he knew1 he was superb4 ,when he spoke of freedom1 of duty1 of living to the ideal1 of mental integrity1 he seemed inspired4 ,webster ,i never heard4 ,he had great qualities2 force1 dignity1 clearness1 grandeur2 but1 after all1 he worshiped the past4 ,he kept his back to the sunrise4 ,there was no dawn in his brain4 ,he was not creative4 ,he had no spirit of prophecy4 ,he lighted no torch4 ,he was not true to his ideal4 ,he talked sometimes as though his head was among the stars1 but he stood in the gutter4 ,in the name of religion he tried to break the will of ,stephen ,girard--to destroy the greatest charity in all the world2 and in the name of the same religion he defended the ,fugitive ,slave ,law4 ,his purpose was the same in both cases4 ,he wanted office4 ,yet he uttered a few very great paragraphs1 rich with thought1 perfectly expressed4 ,clay ,i never heard1 but he must have had a commanding presence1 a chivalric bearing1 an heroic voice4 ,he cared little for the past4 ,he was a natural leader1 a wonderful talker--forcible1 persuasive1 convincing4 ,he was not a poet1 not a master of metaphor1 but he was practical4 ,he kept in view the end to be accomplished4 ,he was the opposite of ,webster4 ,clay was the morning1 ,webster the evening4 ,clay had large views1 a wide horizon4 ,he was ample1 vigorous1 and a little tyrannical4 ,benton was thoroughly commonplace4 ,he never uttered an inspired word4 ,he was an intense egoist4 ,no subject was great enough to make him forget himself4 ,calhoun was a political ,calvinist--narrow1 logical1 dogmatic4 ,he was not an orator4 ,he delivered essays1 not orations4 ,i think it was in #ahea that ,kossuth visited this country4 ,he was an orator4 ,there was no man1 at that time1 under our flag1 who could speak ,english as well as he4 ,in the first speech ,i read of ,kossuth's was this line3 ,russia is the rock against which the sigh for freedom breaks4 ,in this you see the poet1 the painter1 the orator4 ,s4 ,s4 ,prentiss was an orator1 but1 with the recklessness of a gamester1 he threw his life away4 ,he said profound and beautiful things1 but he lacked application4 ,he was uneven1 disproportioned1 saying ordinary things on great occasions1 and now and then1 without the slightest provocation1 uttering the sublimest and most beautiful thoughts4 ,in my judgment1 ,corwin was the greatest orator of them all4 ,he had more arrows in his quiver4 ,he had genius4 ,he was full of humor1 pathos1 wit1 and logic4 ,he was an actor4 ,his body talked4 ,his meaning was in his eyes and lips4 ,gov4 ,o4 ,p4 ,morton of ,indiana had the greatest power of statement of any man ,i ever heard4 ,all the argument was in his statement4 ,the facts were perfectly grouped4 ,the conclusion was a necessity4 ,the best political speech ,i ever heard was made by ,gov4 ,richard ,j4 ,oglesby of ,illinois4 ,it had every element of greatness--reason1 humor1 wit1 pathos1 imagination1 and perfect naturalness4 ,that was in the grand years1 long ago4 ,lincoln had reason1 wonderful humor1 and wit1 but his presence was not good4 ,his voice was poor1 his gestures awkward--but his thoughts were profound4 ,his speech at ,gettysburg is one of the masterpieces of the world4 ,the word here is used four or five times too often4 ,leave the heres out1 and the speech is perfect4 ,of course1 ,i have heard a great many talkers1 but orators are few and far between4 ,they are produced by victorious nations--born in the midst of great events1 of marvelous achievements4 ,they utter the thoughts1 the aspirations of their age4 ,they clothe the children of the people in the gorgeous robes of giants4 ,the interpret the dreams4 ,with the poets1 they prophesy4 ,they fill the future with heroic forms1 with lofty deeds4 ,they keep their faces toward the dawn--toward the ever-coming day4 --,new ,york ,sun1 ,april1 #ahih4 ,,john ,,russell ,,young ,,and ,,expansion4 ,question4 ,you knew ,john ,russell ,young1 ,colonel8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i knew him well and we were friends for many years4 ,he was a wonderfully intelligent man--knew something about everything1 had read most books worth reading4 ,he was one of the truest friends4 ,he had a genius for friendship4 ,he never failed to do a favor when he could1 and he never forgot a favor4 ,he had the genius of gratitude4 ,his mind was keen1 smooth1 clear1 and he really loved to think4 ,i had the greatest admiration for his character and ,i was shocked when ,i read of his death4 ,i did not know that he had been ill4 ,all my heart goes out to his wife--a lovely woman1 now left alone with her boy4 ,after all1 life is a fearful thing at best4 ,the brighter the sunshine the deeper the shadow4 ,question4 ,are you in favor of expansion8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i have always wanted more--,i love to see the ,republic grow4 ,i wanted the ,sandwich ,islands1 wanted ,porto ,rico1 and ,i want ,cuba if the ,cubans want us4 ,i want the ,philippines if the ,filipinos want us--,i do not want to conquer and enslave those people4 ,the war on the ,filipinos is a great mistake--a blunder--almost a crime4 ,if the ,president had declared his policy1 then1 if his policy was right1 there was no need of war4 ,the ,president should have told the ,filipinos just exactly what he wanted4 ,it is a small business1 after ,dewey covered ,manila ,bay with glory1 to murder a lot of half- armed savages4 ,we had no right to buy1 because ,spain had no right to sell the ,philippines4 ,we acquired no rights on those islands by whipping ,spain4 ,question4 ,do you think the ,president should have stated his policy in ,boston the other day8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i think it would be better if he would unpack his little budget--,i like ,mc,kinley1 but ,i liked him just as well before he was ,president4 ,he is a good man1 not because he is ,president1 but because he is a man--you know that real honor must be earned-- people cannot give honor--honor is not alms--it is wages4 ,so1 when a man is elected ,president the best thing he can do is to remain a natural man4 ,yes1 ,i wish ,mc,kinley would brush all his advisers to one side and say his say2 ,i believe his say would be right4 ,now1 don't change this interview and make me say something mean about ,mc,kinley1 because ,i like him4 ,the other day1 in ,chicago1 ,i had an interview and ,i wrote it out4 ,in that interview ,i said a few things about the position of ,senator ,hoar4 ,i tried to show that he was wrong--but ,i took pains to express by admiration for ,senator ,hoar4 ,when the interview was published ,i was made to say that ,senator ,hoar was a mud-head4 ,i never said or thought anything of the kind4 ,don't treat me as that ,chicago reporter did4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,atkinson's speech8 ,answer4 ,well1 some of it is good--but ,i never want to see the soldiers of the ,republic whipped4 ,i am always on our side4 --,the ,press1 ,philadelphia1 ,february #bj1 #ahii4 ,,psychical ,,research ,,and ,,the ,,bible499 99 ,as an incident in the life of any one favored with the privilege1 a visit to the home of ,col4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll is certain to be recalled as a most pleasant and profitable experience4 ,although not a sympathizer with the great ,agnostic's religious views1 yet ,i have long admired his ability1 his humor1 his intellectual honesty and courage4 ,and it was with gratification that ,i accepted the good offices of a common friend who recently offered to introduce me to the ,ingersoll domestic circle in ,gramercy ,park4 ,here ,i found the genial ,colonel1 surrounded by his children1 his grandchildren1 and his amiable wife1 whose smiling greeting dispelled formality and breathed ,welcome in every syllable4 ,the family relationship seemed absolutely ideal-- the very walls emitting an atmosphere of art and music1 of contentment and companionship1 of mutual trust1 happiness and generosity4 ,but my chief desire was to elicit ,colonel ,ingersoll's personal views on questions related to the ,new ,thought and its attitude on matters on which he is known to have very decided opinions4 ,my request for a private chat was cordially granted4 ,during the conversation that ensued--7the substance of which is presented to the readers of ,mind in the following paragraphs1 with the ,colonel's consent7--,i was impressed most deeply1 not by the force of his arguments1 but by the sincerity of his convictions4 ,among some of his more violent opponents1 who presumably lack other opportunities of becoming known1 it is the fashion to accuse ,ingersoll of having really no belief in his own opinions4 ,but1 if he convinced me of little else1 he certainly1 without effort1 satisfied my mind that this accusation is a slander4 ,utterly mistaken in his views he may be2 but if so1 his errors are more honest than many of those he points out in the ,king ,james version of the ,bible4 ,if his pulpit enemies could talk with this man by his own fireside1 they would pay less attention to ,ingersoll himself and more to what he says4 ,they would consider his meaning1 rather than his motive4 ,as the ,colonel is the most conspicuous denunciator of intolerance and bigotry in ,america1 he has been inevitably the greatest victim of these obstacles to mental freedom4 ,to answer ,ingersoll is the pet ambition of many a young clergyman--the older ones have either acquired prudence or are broad enough to concede the utility of even ,agnostics in the economy of evolution4 ,it was with the very subject that we began our talk--the uncharitableness of men1 otherwise good1 in their treatment of those whose religious views differ from their own4 ,question4 ,what is your conception of true intellectual hospitality8 ,as ,truth can brook no compromises1 has it not the same limitations that surround social and domestic hospitality8 ,answer4 ,in the republic of mind we are all equals4 ,each one is sceptered and crowned4 ,each one is the monarch of his own realm4 ,by intellectual hospitality ,i mean the right of every one to think and to express his thought4 ,it makes no difference whether his thought is right or wrong4 ,if you are intellectually hospitable you will admit the right of every human being to see for himself2 to hear with his own ears1 see with his own eyes1 and think with his own brain4 ,you will not try to change his thought by force1 by persecution1 or by slander4 ,you will not threaten him with punishment--here or hereafter4 ,you will give him your thought1 your reasons1 your facts2 and there you will stop4 ,this is intellectual hospitality4 ,you do not give up what you believe to be the truth2 you do not compromise4 ,you simply give him the liberty you claim for yourself4 ,the truth is not affected by your opinion or by his4 ,both may be wrong4 ,for many years the church has claimed to have the truth1 and has also insisted that it is the duty of every man to believe it1 whether it is reasonable to him or not4 ,this is bigotry in its basest form4 ,every man should be guided by his reason2 should be true to himself2 should preserve the veracity of his soul4 ,each human being should judge for himself4 ,the man that believes that all men have this right is intellectually hospitable4 ,question4 ,in the sharp distinction between theology and religion that is now recognized by many theologians1 and in the liberalizing of the church that has marked the last two decades1 are not most of your contentions already granted8 ,is not the lake of fire and brimstone an obsolete issue8 ,answer4 ,there has been in the last few years a great advance4 ,the orthodox creeds have been growing vulgar and cruel4 ,civilized people are shocked at the dogma of eternal pain1 and the belief in hell has mostly faded away4 ,the churches have not changed their creeds4 ,they still pretend to believe as they always have--but they have changed their tone4 ,god is now a father--a friend4 ,he is no longer the monster1 the savage1 described in the ,bible4 ,he has become somewhat civilized4 ,he no longer claims the right to damn us because he made us4 ,but in spite of all the errors and contradictions1 in spite of the cruelties and absurdities found in the ,scriptures1 the churches still insist that the ,bible is inspired4 ,the educated ministers admit that the ,pentateuch was not written by ,moses2 that the ,psalms were not written by ,david2 that ,isaiah was the work of at least three2 that ,daniel was not written until after the prophecies mentioned in that book had been fulfilled2 that ,ecclesiastes was not written until the second century after ,christ2 that ,solomon's ,song was not written by ,solomon2 that the book of ,esther is of no importance2 and that no one knows1 or pretends to know1 who were the authors of ,kings1 ,samuel1 ,chronicles1 or ,job4 ,and yet these same gentlemen still cling to the dogma of inspiration6 ,it is no longer claimed that the ,bible is true--but inspired4 ,question4 ,yet the sacred volume1 no matter who wrote it1 is a mine of wealth to the student and the philosopher1 is it not8 ,would you have us discard it altogether8 ,answer4 ,inspiration must be abandoned1 and the ,bible must take its place among the books of the world4 ,it contains some good passages1 a little poetry1 some good sense1 and some kindness2 but its philosophy is frightful4 ,in fact1 if the book had never existed ,i think it would have been far better for mankind4 ,it is not enough to give up the ,bible2 that is only the beginning4 ,the supernatural must be given up4 ,it must be admitted that ,nature has no master2 that there never has been any interference from without2 that man has received no help from heaven2 and that all the prayers that have ever been uttered have died unanswered in the heedless air4 ,the religion of the supernatural has been a curse4 ,we want the religion of usefulness4 ,question4 ,but have you no use whatever for prayer--even in the sense of aspiration--or for faith1 in the sense of confidence in the ultimate triumph of the right8 ,answer4 ,there is a difference between wishing1 hoping1 believing1 and--knowing4 ,we can wish without evidence or probability1 and we can wish for the impossible--for what we believe can never be4 ,we cannot hope unless there is in the mind a possibility that the thing hoped for can happen4 ,we can believe only in accordance with evidence1 and we know only that which has been demonstrated4 ,i have no use for prayer2 but ,i do a good deal of wishing and hoping4 ,i hope that some time the right will triumph--that ,truth will gain the victory2 but ,i have no faith in gaining the assistance of any god1 or of any supernatural power4 ,i never pray4 ,question4 ,however fully materialism1 as a philosophy1 may accord with the merely human reason1 is it not wholly antagonistic to the instinctive faculties of the mind8 ,answer4 ,human reason is the final arbiter4 ,any system that does not commend itself to the reason must fall4 ,i do not know exactly what you mean by materialism4 ,i do not know what matter is4 ,i am satisfied1 however1 that without matter there can be no force1 no life1 no thought1 no reason4 ,it seems to me that mind is a form of force1 and force cannot exist apart from matter4 ,if it is said that ,god created the universe1 then there must have been a time when he commenced to create4 ,if at that time there was nothing in existence but himself1 how could he have exerted any force8 ,force cannot be exerted except in opposition to force4 ,if ,god was the only existence1 force could not have been exerted4 ,question4 ,but don't you think1 ,colonel1 that the materialistic philosophy1 even in the light of your own interpretation1 is essentially pessimistic8 ,answer4 ,i do not consider it so4 ,i believe that the pessimists and the optimists are both right4 ,this is the worst possible world1 and this is the best possible world--because it is as it must be4 ,the present is the child1 and the necessary child1 of all the past4 ,question4 ,what have you to say concerning the operations of the ,society for ,psychical ,research8 ,do not its facts and conclusions prove1 if not immortality1 at least the continuity of life beyond the grave8 ,are the millions of ,spiritualists deluded8 ,answer4 ,of course ,i have heard and read a great deal about the doings of the ,society2 so1 ,i have some knowledge as to what is claimed by ,spiritualists1 by ,theosophists1 and by all other believers in what are called spiritual manifestations4 ,thousands of wonderful tings have been established by what is called evidence --the testimony of good men and women4 ,i have seen things done that ,i could not explain1 both by mediums and magicians4 ,i also know that it is easy to deceive the senses1 and that the old saying that seeing is believing is subject to many exceptions4 ,i am perfectly satisfied that there is1 and can be1 no force without matter2 that everything that is--all phenomena--all actions and thoughts1 all exhibitions of force1 have a material basis--that nothing exists1--ever did1 or ever will exist1 apart from matter4 ,so ,i am satisfied that no matter ever existed1 or ever will1 apart from force4 ,we think with the same force with which we walk4 ,for every action and for every thought1 we draw upon the store of force that we have gained from air and food4 ,we create no force2 we borrow it all4 ,as force cannot exist apart from matter1 it must be used with matter4 ,it travels only on material roads4 ,it is impossible to convey a thought to another without the assistance of matter4 ,no one can conceive of the use of one of our senses without substance4 ,no one can conceive of a thought in the absence of the senses4 ,with these conclusions in my mind--in my brain--,i have not the slightest confidence in spiritual manifestations1 and do not believe that any message has ever been received from the dead4 ,the testimony that ,i have heard--that ,i have read--coming even from men of science--has not the slightest weight with me4 ,i do not pretend to see beyond the grave4 ,i do not say that man is1 or is not1 immortal4 ,all ,i say is that there is no evidence that we live again1 and no demonstration that we do not4 ,it is better ignorantly to hope than dishonestly to affirm4 ,question4 ,and what do you think of the modern development of metaphysics--as expressed outside of the emotional and semi- ecclesiastical schools8 ,i refer especially to the power of mind in the curing of disease--as demonstrated by scores of drugless healers4 ,answer4 ,i have no doubt that the condition of the mind has some effect upon the health4 ,the blood1 the heart1 the lungs answer-- respond to--emotion4 ,there is no mind without body1 and the body is affected by thought--by passion1 by cheerfulness1 by depression4 ,still1 ,i have not the slightest confidence in what is called mind cure4 ,i do not believe that thought1 or any set of ideas1 can cure a cancer1 or prevent the hair from falling out1 or remove a tumor1 or even freckles4 ,at the same time1 ,i admit that cheerfulness is good and depression bad4 ,but ,i have no confidence in what you call drugless healers4 ,if the stomach is sour1 soda is better than thinking4 ,if one is in great pain1 opium will beat meditation4 ,i am a believer in what you call drugs1 and when ,i am sick ,i send for a physician4 ,i have no confidence in the supernatural4 ,magic is not medicine4 ,question4 ,one great object of this movement1 is to make religion scientific--an aid to intellectual as well as spiritual progress4 ,is it not thus to be encouraged1 and destined to succeed--even though it prove the reality and supremacy of the spirit and the secondary importance of the flesh8 ,answer4 ,when religion becomes scientific1 it ceases to be religion and becomes science4 ,religion is not intellectual--it is emotional4 ,it does not appeal to the reason4 ,the founder of a religion has always said3 ,let him that hath ears to hear1 hear6 ,no founder has said3 ,let him that hath brains to think1 think6 ,besides1 we need not trouble ourselves about spirit and flesh4 ,we know that we know of no spirit--without flesh4 ,we have no evidence that spirit ever did or ever will exist apart from flesh4 ,such existence is absolutely inconceivable4 ,if we are going to construct what you call a religion1 it must be founded on observed and known facts4 ,theories1 to be of value1 must be in accord with all the facts that are known2 otherwise they are worthless4 ,we need not try to get back of facts or behind the truth4 ,the why will forever elude us4 ,you cannot move your hand quickly enough to grasp your image back of the mirror4 --,mind1 ,new ,york1 ,march1 #ahii4 ,,this ,,century',s ,,glories4 ,the laurel of the nineteenth century is on ,darwin's brow4 ,this century has been the greatest of all4 ,the inventions1 the discoveries1 the victories on the fields of thought1 the advances in nearly every direction of human effort are without parallel in human history4 ,in only two directions have the achievements of this century been excelled4 ,the marbles of ,greece have not been equalled4 ,they still occupy the niches dedicated to perfection4 ,they sculptors of our century stand before the miracles of the ,greeks in impotent wonder4 ,they cannot even copy4 ,they cannot give the breath of life to stone and make the marble feel and think4 ,the plays of ,shakespeare have never been approached4 ,he reached the summit1 filled the horizon4 ,in the direction of the dramatic1 the poetic1 the human mind1 in my judgment1 in ,shakespeare's plays reached its limit4 ,the field was harvested1 all the secrets of the heart were told4 ,the buds of all hopes blossomed1 all seas were crossed and all the shores were touched4 ,with these two exceptions1 the ,grecian marbles and the ,shakespeare plays1 the nineteenth century has produced more for the benefit of man than all the centuries of the past4 ,in this century1 in one direction1 ,i think the mind has reached the limit4 ,i do not believe the music of ,wagner will ever be excelled4 ,he changed all passions1 longing1 memories and aspirations into tones1 and with subtle harmonies wove tapestries of sound1 whereon were pictured the past and future1 the history and prophecy of the human heart4 ,of course ,copernicus1 ,galileo1 ,newton and ,kepler laid the foundations of astronomy4 ,it may be that the three laws of ,kepler mark the highest point in that direction that the mind has reached4 ,in the other centuries there is now and then a peak1 but through ours there runs a mountain range with ,alp on ,alp--the steamship that has conquered all the seas2 the railway1 with its steeds of steel with breath of flame1 covers the land2 the cables and telegraphs1 along which lightning is the carrier of thought1 have made the nations neighbors and brought the world to every home2 the making of paper from wood1 the printing presses that made it possible to give the history of the human race each day2 the reapers1 mowers and threshers that superseded the cradles1 scythes and flails2 the lighting of streets and houses with gas and incandescent lamps1 changing night into day2 the invention of matches that made fire the companion of man2 the process of making steel1 invented by ,bessemer1 saving for the world hundreds of millions a year2 the discovery of anesthetics1 changing pain to happy dreams and making surgery a science2 the spectrum analysis1 that told us the secrets of the suns2 the telephone1 that transports speech1 uniting lips and ears2 the phonograph1 that holds in dots and marks the echoes of our words2 the marvelous machines that spin and weave1 that manufacture the countless things of use1 the marvelous machines1 whose wheels and levers seem to think2 the discoveries in chemistry1 the wave theory of light1 the indestructibility of matter and force2 the discovery of microbes and bacilli1 so that now the plague can be stayed without the assistance of priests4 ,the art of photography became known1 the sun became an artist1 gave us the faces of our friends1 copies of the great paintings and statues1 pictures of the world's wonders1 and enriched the eyes of poverty with the spoil of travel1 the wealth of art4 ,the cell theory was advanced1 embryology was studied and science entered the secret house of life4 ,the biologists1 guided by fossil forms1 followed the paths of life from protoplasm up to man4 ,then came ,darwin with the ,origin of ,species1 ,natural ,selection1 and the ,survival of the ,fittest4 ,from his brain there came a flood of light4 ,the old theories grew foolish and absurd4 ,the temple of every science was rebuilt4 ,that which had been called philosophy became childish superstition4 ,the prison doors were opened and millions of convicts1 of unconscious slaves1 roved with joy over the fenceless fields of freedom4 ,darwin and ,haeckel and ,huxley and their fellow-workers filled the night of ignorance with the glittering stars of truth4 ,this is ,darwin's victory4 ,he gained the greatest victory1 the grandest triumph4 ,the laurel of the nineteenth century is on his brow4 ,question4 ,how does the literature of to-day compare with that of the first half of the century1 in your opinion8 ,answer4 ,there is now no poet of laughter and tears1 of comedy and pathos1 the equal of ,hood4 ,there is none with the subtle delicacy1 the aerial footstep1 the flame-like motion of ,shelley2 none with the amplitude1 sweep and passion1 with the strength and beauty1 the courage and royal recklessness of ,byron4 ,the novelists of our day are not the equals of ,dickens4 ,in my judgment1 ,dickens wrote the greatest of all novels4 ,the ,tale of ,two ,cities is the supreme work of fiction4 ,its philosophy is perfect4 ,the characters stand out like living statues4 ,in its pages you find the blood and flame1 the ferocity and self-sacrifice of the ,french ,revolution4 ,in the bosom of the ,vengeance is the heart of the horror4 ,in #aje1 ,north ,tower1 sits one whom sorrow drove beyond the verge1 rescued from death by insanity1 and we see the spirit of ,dr4 ,manette tremblingly cross the great gulf that lies between the night of dreams and the blessed day1 where things are as they seem1 as a tress of golden hair1 while on his hands and cheeks fall ,lucie's blessed tears4 ,the story is filled with lights and shadows1 with the tragic and grotesque4 ,while the woman knits1 while the heads fall1 ,jerry ,cruncher gnaws his rusty nails and his poor wife flops against his business1 and prim ,miss ,pross1 who in the desperation and terror of love held ,mme4 ,defarge in her arms and who in the flash and crash found that her burden was dead1 is drawn by the hand of a master4 ,and what shall ,i say of ,sidney ,carton8 ,of his last walk8 ,of his last ride1 holding the poor girl by the hand8 ,is there a more wonderful character in all the realm of fiction8 ,sidney ,carton1 the perfect lover1 going to his death for the love of one who loves another4 ,to me the three greatest novels are ,the ,tale of ,two ,cities1 by ,dickens1 ,les ,miserables1 by ,hugo1 and ,ariadne1 by ,ouida4 ,les ,miserables is full of faults and perfections4 ,the tragic is sometimes pushed to the grotesque1 but from the depths it brings the pearls of truth4 ,a convict becomes holier than the saint1 a prostitute purer than the nun4 ,this book fills the gutter with the glory of heaven1 while the waters of the sewer reflect the stars4 ,in ,ariadne you find the aroma of all art4 ,it is a classic dream4 ,and there1 too1 you find the hot blood of full and ample life4 ,ouida is the greatest living writer of fiction4 ,some of her books ,i do not like4 ,if you wish to know what ,ouida really is1 read ,wanda1 ,the ,dog of ,flanders1 ,the ,leaf in a ,storm4 ,in these you will hear the beating of her heart4 ,most of the novelists of our time write good stories4 ,they are ingenious1 the characters are well drawn1 but they lack life1 energy4 ,they do not appear to act for themselves1 impelled by inner force4 ,they seem to be pushed and pulled4 ,the same may be said of the poets4 ,tennyson belongs to the latter half of our century4 ,he was undoubtedly a great writer4 ,he had no flame or storm1 no tidal wave1 nothing volcanic4 ,he never overflowed the banks4 ,he wrote nothing as intense1 as noble and pathetic as the ,prisoner of ,chillon2 nothing as purely poetic as ,the ,skylark2 nothing as perfect as the ,grecian ,urn1 and yet he was one of the greatest of poets4 ,viewed from all sides he was far greater than ,shelley1 far nobler than ,keats4 ,in a few poems ,shelley reached almost the perfect1 but many are weak1 feeble1 fragmentary1 almost meaningless4 ,so ,keats in three poems reached a great height--in ,st4 ,agnes' ,eve1 ,the ,grecian ,urn1 and ,the ,nightingale--but most of his poetry is insipid1 without thought1 beauty or sincerity4 ,we have had some poets ourselves4 ,emerson wrote many poetic and philosophic lines4 ,he never violated any rule4 ,he kept his passions under control and generally kept off the grass4 ,but he uttered some great and splendid truths and sowed countless seeds of suggestion4 ,when we remember that he came of a line of ,new ,england preachers we are amazed at the breadth1 the depth and the freedom of his thought4 ,walt ,whitman wrote a few great poems1 elemental1 natural--poems that seem to be a part of nature1 ample as the sky1 having the rhythm of the tides1 the swing of a planet4 ,whitcomb ,riley has written poems of hearth and home1 of love and labor worthy of ,robert ,burns4 ,he is the sweetest1 strongest singer in our country and ,i do not know his equal in any land4 ,but when we compare the literature of the first half of this century with that of the last1 we are compelled to say that the last1 taken as a whole1 is best4 ,think of the volumes that science has given to the world4 ,in the first half of this century1 sermons1 orthodox sermons1 were published and read4 ,now reading sermons is one of the lost habits4 ,taken as a whole1 the literature of the latter half of our century is better than the first4 ,i like the essays of ,prof4 ,clifford4 ,they are so clear1 so logical that they are poetic4 ,herbert ,spencer is not simply instructive1 he is charming4 ,he is full of true imagination4 ,he is not the slave of imagination4 ,imagination is his servant4 ,huxley wrote like a trained swordsman4 ,his thrusts were never parried4 ,he had superb courage4 ,he never apologized for having an opinion4 ,there was never on his soul the stain of evasion4 ,he was as candid as the truth4 ,haeckel is a great writer because he reveres a fact1 and would not for his life deny or misinterpret one4 ,he tells what he knows with the candor of a child and defends his conclusions like a scientist1 a philosopher4 ,he stands next to ,darwin4 ,coming back to fiction and poetry1 ,i have great admiration for ,edgar ,fawcett4 ,there is in his poetry thought1 beauty and philosophy4 ,he has the courage of his thought4 ,he knows our language1 the energy of verbs1 the color of adjectives4 ,he is in the highest sense an artist4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,hall ,caine's recent efforts to bring about a closer union between the stage and pulpit8 ,answer4 ,of course1 ,i am not certain as to the intentions of ,mr4 ,caine4 ,i saw ,the ,christian1 and it did not seem to me that the author was trying to catch the clergy4 ,there is certainly nothing in the play calculated to please the pulpit4 ,there is a clergyman who is pious and heartless4 ,john ,storm is the only ,christian1 and he is crazy4 ,when ,glory accepts him at last1 you not only feel1 but you know she has acted the fool4 ,the lord in the piece is a dog1 and the real gentleman is the chap that runs the music hall4 ,how the play can please the pulpit ,i do not see4 ,storm's whole career is a failure4 ,his followers turn on him like wild beasts4 ,his religion is a divine and diabolical dream4 ,with him murder is one of the means of salvation4 ,mr4 ,caine has struck ,christianity a stinging blow between the eyes4 ,he has put two preachers on the stage1 one a heartless hypocrite and the other a madman4 ,certainly ,i am not prejudiced in favor of ,christianity1 and yet ,i enjoyed the play4 ,if ,mr4 ,caine says he is trying to bring the stage and the pulpit together1 then he is a humorist1 with the humor of ,rabelais4 ,question4 ,what do recent exhibitions in this city1 of scenes from the life of ,christ1 indicate with regard to the tendencies of modern art8 ,answer4 ,nothing4 ,some artists love the sombre1 the melancholy1 the hopeless4 ,they enjoy painting the bowed form1 the tear-filled eyes4 ,to them grief is a festival4 ,there are people who find pleasure in funerals4 ,they love to watch the mourners4 ,the falling clods make music4 ,they love the silence1 the heavy odors1 the sorrowful hymns and the preacher's remarks4 ,the feelings of such people do not indicate the general trend of the human mind4 ,even a poor artist may hope for success if he represents something in which many millions are deeply interested1 around which their emotions cling like vines4 ,a man need not be an orator to make a patriotic speech1 a speech that flatters his audience4 ,so1 an artist need not be great in order to satisfy1 if his subject appeals to the prejudice of those who look at his pictures4 ,i have never seen a good painting of ,christ4 ,all the ,christs that ,i have seen lack strength and character4 ,they look weak and despairing4 ,they are all unhealthy4 ,they have the attitude of apology1 the sickly smile of non-resistance4 ,i have never seen an heroic1 serene and triumphant ,christ4 ,to tell the truth1 ,i never saw a great religious picture4 ,they lack sincerity4 ,all the angels look almost idiotic4 ,in their eyes is no thought1 only the innocence of ignorance4 ,i think that art is leaving the celestial1 the angelic1 and is getting in love with the natural1 the human4 ,troyon put more genius in the representation of cattle than ,angelo and ,raphael did in angels4 ,no picture has been painted of heaven that is as beautiful as a landscape by ,corot4 ,the aim of art is to represent the realities1 the highest and noblest1 the most beautiful4 ,the ,greeks did not try to make men like gods1 but they made gods like men4 ,so that great artists of our day go to nature4 ,question4 ,is it not strange that1 with one exception1 the most notable operas written since ,wagner are by ,italian composers instead of ,german8 ,answer4 ,for many years ,german musicians insisted that ,wagner was not a composer4 ,they declared that he produced only a succession of discordant noises4 ,i account for this by the fact that the music of ,wagner was not ,german4 ,his countrymen could not understand it4 ,they had to be educated4 ,there was no orchestra in ,germany that could really play ,tristan and ,isolde4 ,its eloquence1 its pathos1 its shoreless passion was beyond them4 ,there is no reason to suppose that ,germany is to produce another ,wagner4 ,is ,england expected to give us another ,shakespeare8 --,the ,sun1 ,new ,york1 ,march #ai1 #ahii4 ,,capital ,,punishment ,,and ,,the ,,whipping-,,post4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,governor ,roosevelt's decision in the case of ,mrs4 ,place8 ,answer4 ,i think the refusal of ,governor ,roosevelt to commute the sentence of ,mrs4 ,place is a disgrace to the ,state4 ,what a spectacle of man killing a woman--taking a poor1 pallid1 frightened woman1 strapping her to a chair and then arranging the apparatus so she can be shocked to death4 ,many call this a ,christian country4 ,a good many people who believe in hell would naturally feel it their duty to kill a wretched1 insane woman4 ,society has a right to protect itself1 but this can be done by imprisonment1 and it is more humane to put a criminal in a cell than in a grave4 ,capital punishment degrades and hardens a community and it is a work of savagery4 ,it is savagery4 ,capital punishment does not prevent murder1 but sets an example--an example by the ,state--that is followed by its citizens4 ,the ,state murders its enemies and the citizen murders his4 ,any punishment that degrades the punished1 must necessarily degrade the one inflicting the punishment4 ,no punishment should be inflicted by a human being that could not be inflicted by a gentleman4 ,for instance1 take the whipping-post4 ,some people are in favor of flogging because they say that some offences are of such a frightful nature that flogging is the only punishment4 ,they forget that the punishment must be inflicted by somebody1 and that somebody is a low and contemptible cur4 ,i understand that ,john ,g4 ,shortall1 president of the ,humane ,society of ,illinois1 has had a bill introduced into the ,legislature of the ,state for the establishment of the whipping-post4 ,the shadow of that post would disgrace and darken the whole ,state4 ,nothing could be more infamous1 and yet this man is president of the ,humane ,society4 ,now1 the question arises1 what is humane about this society8 ,certainly not its president4 ,undoubtedly he is sincere4 ,certainly no man would take that position unless he was sincere4 ,nobody deliberately pretends to be bad1 but the idea of his being president of the ,humane ,society is simply preposterous4 ,with his idea about the whipping-post he might join a society of hyenas for the cultivation of ferocity1 for certainly nothing short of that would do justice to his bill4 ,i have too much confidence in the legislators of that ,state1 and maybe my confidence rests in the fact that ,i do not know them1 to think that the passage of such a bill is possible4 ,if it were passed ,i think ,i would be justified in using the language of the old ,marylander1 who said1 ,i have lived in ,maryland fifty years1 but ,i have never counted them1 and my hope is1 that ,god won't4 ,question4 ,what did you think of the late ,joseph ,medill8 ,answer4 ,i was not very well acquainted with ,mr4 ,medill4 ,i had a good many conversations with him1 and ,i was quite familiar with his work4 ,i regard him as the greatest editor of the ,northwestern ,states and ,i am not sure that there was a greater one in the country4 ,he was one of the builders of the ,republican party4 ,he was on the right side of the great question of ,liberty4 ,he was a man of strong likes and ,i may say dislikes4 ,he never surrendered his personality4 ,the atom called ,joseph ,medill was never lost in the aggregation known as the ,republican party4 ,he was true to that party when it was true to him4 ,as a rule he traveled a road of his own and he never seemed to have any doubt about where the road led4 ,i think that he was an exceedingly useful man4 ,i think the only true religion is usefulness4 ,he was a very strong writer1 and when touched by friendship for a man1 or a cause1 he occasionally wrote very great paragraphs1 and paragraphs full of force and most admirably expressed4 --,the ,tribune1 ,chicago1 ,march #ai1 #ahii4 ,,expansion ,,and ,,trusts499 99 ,this was ,colonel ,ingersoll's last interview4 ,i am an expansionist4 ,the country has the land hunger and expansion is popular4 ,i want all we can honestly get4 ,but ,i do not want the ,philippines unless the ,filipinos want us1 and ,i feel exactly the same about the ,cubans4 ,we paid twenty millions of dollars to ,spain for the ,philippine ,islands1 and we knew that ,spain had no title to them4 ,the question with me is not one of trade or convenience2 it is a question of right or wrong4 ,i think the best patriot is the man who wants his country to do right4 ,the ,philippines would be a very valuable possession to us1 in view of their proximity to ,china4 ,but1 however desirable they may be1 that cuts no figure4 ,we must do right4 ,we must act nobly toward the ,filipinos1 whether we get the islands or not4 ,i would like to see peace between us and the ,filipinos2 peace honorable to both2 peace based on reason instead of force4 ,if control had been given to ,dewey1 if ,miles had been sent to ,manila1 ,i do not believe that a shot would have been fired at the ,filipinos1 and that they would have welcomed the ,american flag4 ,question4 ,although you are not in favor of taking the ,philippines by force1 how do you regard the administration in its conduct of the war8 ,answer4 ,they have made many mistakes at ,washington1 and they are still making many4 ,if it has been decided to conquer the ,filipinos1 then conquer them at once4 ,let the struggle not be drawn out and the drops of blood multiplied4 ,the ,republican party is being weakened by inaction at the ,capital4 ,if the war is not ended shortly1 the party in power will feel the evil effects at the presidential election4 ,question4 ,in what light do you regard the ,philippines as an addition to the territory of the ,united ,states8 ,answer4 ,probably in the future1 and possibly in the near future1 the value of the islands to this country could hardly be calculated4 ,the division of ,china which is bound to come1 will open a market of four hundred millions of people4 ,naturally a possession close to the open doors of the ,east would be of an almost incalculable value to this country4 ,it might perhaps take a long time to teach the ,chinese that they need our products4 ,but suppose that the ,chinese came to look upon wheat in the same light that other people look upon wheat and its product1 bread8 ,what an immense amount of grain it would take to feed four hundred million hungry ,chinamen6 ,the same would be the case with the rest of our products4 ,so you will perhaps agree with me in my view of the immense value of the islands if they could but be obtained by honorable means4 ,question4 ,if the ,democratic party makes anti-imperialism the prominent plank in its platform1 what effect will it have on the party's chance for success8 ,answer4 ,anti-imperialism1 as the ,democratic battle-cry1 would greatly weaken a party already very weak4 ,it is the most unpopular issue of the day4 ,the people want expansion4 ,the country is infected with patriotic enthusiasm4 ,the party that tries to resist the tidal wave will be swept away4 ,anybody who looks can see4 ,let a band at any of the summer resorts or at the suburban breathing spots play a patriotic air4 ,the listeners are electrified1 and they rise and off go their hats when ,the ,star-,spangled ,banner is struck up4 ,imperialism cannot be fought with success4 ,question4 ,will the ,democratic party have a strong issue in its anti-trust cry8 ,answer4 ,in my opinion1 both parties will nail anti-trust planks in their platforms4 ,but this talk is all bosh with both parties4 ,neither one is honest in its cry against trusts4 ,the one making the more noise in this direction may get the votes of some unthinking persons1 but every one who is capable of reading and digesting what he reads1 knows full well that the leaders of neither party are sincere and honest in their demonstrations against the trusts4 ,why should the ,democratic party lay claim to any anti-trust glory8 ,is it not a ,republican administration that is at present investigating the alleged evils of trusts8 --,the ,north ,american1 ,philadelphia1 ,june #bb1 #ahii4