,,the ,,works ,,of ,,robert ,g4 ,,ingersoll ,by ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll ,,every ,,brain ,,is ,a ,,field ,,where ,,nature ,,sows ,,the ,,seeds ,,of ,,thought1 ,,and ,,the ,,crop ,,depends ,,upon ,,the ,,soil4 ,in ,twelve ,volumes1 ,volume ,,vii4 ,,discussions ,dresden ,edition #aijj ,,contents ,,of ,,volume ,,vii4 ,,my ,,reviewers ,,reviewed4 7#ahgg47 ,answer to ,san ,francisco ,clergymen--,definition of ,liberty1 ,physical and ,mental--,the ,right to ,compel ,belief--,woman the ,equal of ,man--,the ,ghosts--,immortality--,slavery--,witchc raft--,aristocracy of the ,air--,unfairness of ,clerical ,critics--,force and ,matter--,doctrine of ,negation--,confident ,deaths of ,murderers--,childhood ,scenes returned to by the ,dying--,death-bed of ,voltaire--,thomas ,paine--,the ,first ,sectarians ,were ,heretics--,reply to ,rev4 ,mr4 ,guard--,slaughter of the ,canaanites--,reply to ,rev4 ,samuel ,robinson--,protestant ,persecutions--,toleration--,infidelity and ,progress--,the ,occident--,calvinism--,religious ,editors--,reply to the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,ijams--,does the ,bible teach ,man to ,enslave his ,brothers8--,reply to ,california ,christian ,advocate--,self-,government of ,french ,people at and ,since the ,revolution--,on the ,site of the ,bastile--,french ,peasant's ,cheers for ,jesus ,christ--,was the ,world created in ,six ,days--,geology--,what is the ,astronomy of the ,bible8--,the ,earth the ,centre of the ,universe--,joshua's ,miracle--,change of ,motion into ,heat--,geography and ,astronomy of ,cosmas--,does the ,bible teach the ,existence of that ,impossible ,crime called ,witchcraft8--,saul and the ,woman of ,endor--,familiar ,spirits--,demonology of the ,new ,testament--,temptation of ,jesus--,possession by ,devils--,gadarene ,swine ,story--,test of ,belief--,bible ,idea of the ,rights of ,children--,punishment of the ,rebellious ,son--,jephthah's ,vow and ,sacrifice--,persecution of ,job--,the ,gallantry of ,god--,bible ,idea of the ,rights of ,women--,paul's ,instructions to ,wives--,permission given to ,steal ,wives--,does the ,bible ,sanction ,polygamy and ,concubinage8--,does the ,bible ,uphold and ,justify ,political ,tyranny8--,powers that be ,ordained of ,god--,religious ,liberty of ,god--,sun-,worship punishable with ,death--,unbelievers to be damned--,does the ,bible describe a ,god of ,mercy8--,massacre ,commanded--,eternal ,punishment ,taught in the ,new ,testament--,the ,plan of ,salvation--,fall and ,atonement ,moral ,bankruptcy--,other ,religions--,parsee ,sect--,brahmins--,confucians--,heretics and ,orthodox4 ,,my ,,chicago ,,bible ,,class4 7#ahgi47 ,rev4 ,robert ,collyer--,inspiration of the ,scriptures--,rev4 ,dr4 ,thomas--,formation of the ,old ,testament--,rev4 ,dr4 ,kohler--,rev4 ,mr4 ,herford--,prof4 ,swing--,rev4 ,dr4 ,ryder4 ,,to ,,the ,,indianapolis ,,clergy4 7#ahhb47 ,rev4 ,david ,walk--,character of ,jesus--,two or ,three ,christs ,described in the ,gospels--,christ's ,change of ,opinions--,gospels ,later than the ,epistles--,divine ,parentage of ,christ a ,late ,belief--,the ,man ,christ probably a ,historical ,character--,jesus ,belittled by his ,worshipers--,he never ,claimed to be ,divine--,christ's ,omissions--,difference between ,christian and other ,modern ,civilizations--,civilization not ,promoted by ,religion--,inventors--,french and ,american ,civilization3 ,how ,produced--,intemperance and ,slavery in ,christian ,nations--,advance due to ,inventions and ,discoveries--,missionaries--,christian ,nations ,preserved by ,bayonet and ,ball--,dr4 ,t4 ,b4 ,taylor--,origin of ,life on this ,planet--,sir ,william ,thomson--,origin of ,things ,undiscoverable--,existence after ,death--,spiritualists--,if the ,dead ,return--,our ,calendar--,christ and ,christmas-,the ,existence of ,pain--,plato's ,theory of ,evil--,will ,god do ,better in ,another ,world than he does in this8--,consolation--,life ,not a ,probationary ,stage--,rev4 ,d4,o',donaghue--,the ,case of ,archibald ,armstrong and ,jonathan ,newgate--,inequalities of ,life--,can ,criminals live a ,contented ,life8--,justice of the ,orthodox ,god ,illustrated4 ,,the ,,brooklyn ,,divines4 7#ahhc47 ,are the ,books of ,atheistic or ,infidel ,writers ,extensively ,read8--,increase in the ,number of ,infidels--,spread of ,scientific ,literature--,rev4 ,dr4 ,eddy--,rev4 ,dr4 ,hawkins--,rev4 ,dr4 ,haynes--,rev4 ,mr4 ,pullman--,rev4 ,mr4 ,foote--,rev4 ,mr4 ,wells--,rev4 ,dr4 ,van ,dyke--,rev4 ,carpenter--,rev4 ,mr4 ,reed--,rev4 ,dr4 ,mc,clelland--,ministers ,opposed to ,discussion--,whipping ,children--,worldliness as a ,foe of the ,church--,the ,drama--,human ,love--,fires1 ,cyclones1 and ,other ,afflictions as ,promoters of ,spirituality--,class ,distinctions--,rich and ,poor--,aristocracies--,the ,right to ,choose ,one's ,associates--,churches ,social ,affairs--,progress of the ,roman ,catholic ,church--,substitutes for the ,churches--,henry ,ward ,beecher--,how far ,education is ,favored by the ,sects--,rivals of the ,pulpit--,christianity ,now and ,one ,hundred ,years ,ago--,french ,revolution produced by the ,priests--,why the ,revolution was a ,failure--,infidelity of ,one ,hundred ,years ,ago--,ministers not more ,intellectual than a ,century ,ago--,great ,preachers of the ,past--,new ,readings of ,old ,texts--,clerical ,answerers of ,infidelity--,rev4 ,dr4 ,baker--,father ,fransiola--,faith and ,reason--,democracy of ,kindness--,moral ,instruction--,morality ,born of ,human ,needs--,the ,conditions of ,happiness--,the ,chief ,end of ,man4 ,,the ,,limitations ,,of ,,toleration4 7#ahhh47 ,discussion between ,col4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll1 ,hon4 ,frederic ,r4 ,coudert1 and ex-,gov4 ,stewart ,l4 ,woodford before the ,nineteenth ,century ,club of ,new ,york--,propositions--,toleration not a ,disclaimer but a ,waiver of the ,right to ,persecute--,remarks of ,courtlandt ,palmer--,no ,responsibility for ,thought--,intellectual ,hospitality--,right of ,free ,speech--,origin of the term ,toleration--,slander and ,false ,witness--,nobody can ,control his own ,mind3 ,anecdote--,remarks of ,mr4 ,coudert--,voltaire1 ,rousseau1 ,hugo1 and ,ingersoll--,general ,woodford's ,speech--,reply by ,colonel ,ingersoll--,a ,catholic ,compelled to ,pay a ,compliment to ,voltaire--,responsibility for ,thoughts--,the ,mexican ,unbeliever and his ,reception in the ,other ,country4 ,a ,,christmas ,,sermon4 7#ahia47 ,christianity's ,message of ,grief--,christmas a ,pagan ,festival--,reply to ,dr4 ,buckley--,charges by the ,editor of the ,christian ,advocate--,the ,tidings of ,christianity--,in what the ,message of ,grief ,consists--,fear and ,flame--,an ,everlasting ,siberia--,dr4 ,buckley's ,proposal to ,boycott the ,telegram--,reply to ,rev4 ,j4 ,m4 ,king and ,rev4 ,thomas ,dixon1 ,jr4 ,cana ,day be ,blasphemed8--,hurting ,christian feelings--,for ,revenue only ,what is ,blasphemy8--,balaam's ,ass wiser than the ,prophet--,the ,universalists--,can ,god do ,nothing for this ,world8--,the ,universe a ,blunder if ,christianity is true--,the ,duty of a ,newspaper--,facts ,not ,sectarian--,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,peters--,what ,infidelity ,has ,done--,public ,school ,system not ,christian--,orthodox ,universities--,bruno on ,oxford--,as to ,public ,morals--,no ,rewards or ,punishments in the ,universe--,the ,atonement ,immoral--,as to ,sciences and ,art--,bruno1 ,humboldt1 ,darwin--,scientific ,writers ,opposed by the ,church--,as to the ,liberation of ,slaves--,as to the ,reclamation of ,inebriates--,rum and ,religion--,the ,humanity of ,infidelity--,what ,infidelity says to the ,dying--,the ,battle ,continued--,morality not ,assailed by an ,attack on ,christianity--,the ,inquisition and ,religious ,persecution--,human ,nature ,derided by ,christianity--,dr4 ,da,costa--,human ,brotherhood as exemplified by the ,history of the ,church--,the ,church and ,science1 ,art and ,learning----,astronomy's ,revenge--,galileo and ,kepler--,mrs4 ,browning3 ,science ,thrust into the ,brain of ,europe--,our ,numerals--,christianity and ,literature--,institution's of ,learning--,stephen ,girard--,james ,lick--,our ,chronology--,historians--,natural ,philosophy--,philology--,metaphysical ,research--,intelligence1 ,hindoo1 ,egyptian--,inventions--,john ,ericsson--,emancipators--,rev4 ,mr4 ,ballou--,the ,right of ,goa to ,punish--,rev4 ,dr4 ,hillier--,rev4 ,mr4 ,haldeman--,george ,a4 ,locey--,the ,great ,physician--,rev4 ,mr4 ,talmage--,rev4 ,j4 ,benson ,hamilton--,how ,voltaire ,died--,the ,death-bed of ,thomas ,paine--,rev4 ,mr4 ,holloway--,original ,sin--,rev4 ,dr4 ,tyler--,the ,good ,samaritan a ,heathen--,hospitals and ,asylums--,christian ,treatment of the ,insane--,rev4 ,dr4 ,buckley--,the ,north ,american ,review ,discussion--,judge ,black1 ,dr4 ,field1 ,mr4 ,gladstone--,circulation of ,obscene ,literature--,eulogy of ,whiskey--,eulogy of ,tobacco--,human ,stupidity that ,defies the ,gods--,rev4 ,charles ,deems--,jesus a ,believer in a ,personal ,devil--,the ,man ,christ4 ,,suicide ,,of ,,judge ,,normile4 7#ahib47 ,reply to the ,western ,watchman--,henry ,d',arcy--,peter's ,prevarication-,some ,excellent ,pagans-,heartlessness of a ,catholic--,wishes do not ,affect the ,judgment--,devout ,robbers--,penitent ,murderers--,reverential ,drunkards--,luther's ,distich--,judge ,normile--,self-destruction4 ,,is ,,suicide ,a ,,sin8 7#ahid47 ,col4 ,ingersoll's ,first ,letter in ,the ,new ,york ,world--,under what ,circumstances a ,man has the ,right to take his ,own ,life--,medicine and the ,decrees of ,god--,case of the ,betrayed ,girl--,suicides not ,cowards--,suicide under ,roman ,law--,many ,suicides ,insane--,insanity ,caused by ,religion--,the ,law against ,suicide ,cruel and ,idiotic--,natural and ,sufficient ,cause for ,self-destruction--,christ's ,death a ,suicide--,col4 ,ingersoll's ,reply to his ,critics--,is ,suffering the ,work of ,god8--,it is not ,man's ,duty to ,endure ,hopeless ,suffering--,when ,suicide is ,justifiable--,the ,inquisition--,alleged ,cowardice of ,suicides--,propositions ,demonstrated--,suicide the ,foundation of the ,christian ,religion--,redemption and ,atonement--,the ,clergy on ,infidelity and ,suicide--,morality and ,unbelief--,better injure yourself than ,another--,misquotation by ,opponents--,cheerful ,view the ,best--,the ,wonder is that ,men endure--,suicide a ,sin 7,interview in ,the ,new ,york ,journal7--,causes of ,suicide--,col4 ,ingersoll ,does ,not ,advise ,suicide--,suicides with ,tracts or ,bibles in their ,pockets--,suicide a ,sin 7,interview in ,the ,new ,york ,herald7--,comments on ,rev4 ,alerle ,st4 ,croix ,wright's ,sermon--,suicide and ,sanity 7,interview in ,the ,york ,world7--,as to the ,cowardice of ,suicide--,germany and the ,prevalence of ,suicide--,killing of ,idiots and ,defective ,infants--,virtue1 ,morality1 and ,religion4 ,,is ,,avarice ,,triumphant8 7#ahia47 ,reply to ,general ,rush ,hawkins' ,article1 ,brutality and ,avarice ,triumphant--,croakers and ,prophets of ,evil--,medical ,treatment for ,believers in ,universal ,evil--,alleged ,fraud in ,army ,contracts--,congressional ,extravagance--,railroad ,wreckers--,how ,stockholders in ,some ,roads ,lost ,their ,money--,the ,star-,route ,trials--,timber and ,public ,lands--,watering ,stock--,the ,formation of ,trusts--,unsafe ,hotels3 ,european ,game and ,singing ,birds--,seal ,fisheries--,cruelty to ,animals--,our ,indians--,sensible and ,manly ,patriotism--,days of ,brutality--,defence of ,slavery by the ,websters1 ,bentons1 and ,clays--,thirty ,years' ,accomplishment--,ennobling ,influence of ,war for the ,right--,the ,lady ana the ,brakeman--,american ,esteem of ,honesty in ,business--,republics do not ,tend to ,official ,corruption--,this the ,best ,country in the ,world4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,cincinnati ,,gazette ,,and ,,catholic ,,telegraph4 7#ahgh47 ,defence of the ,lecture on ,moses--,how ,biblical ,miracles are sought to be ,proved--,some ,non ,sequiturs--,a ,grammatical ,criticism--,christianity ,destructive of ,manners--,cuvier and ,agassiz on ,mosaic ,cosmogony--,clerical ,advance agents--,christian ,threats and ,warnings--,catholicism the ,upas ,tree--,hebrew ,scholarship as a ,qualification for ,deciding ,probababilities --,contradictions and ,mistranslations of the ,bible--,number of ,errors in the ,scriptures--,the ,sunday ,question4 ,,an ,,interview ,,on ,,chief ,,justice ,,comegys4 7#ahha47 ,charged with ,blasphemy in the ,state of ,delaware--,can a ,conditionless ,deity be ,injured8--,injustice the only ,blasphemy--,the ,lecture in ,delaware--,laws of that ,state--,all ,sects in turn ,charged with ,blasphemy--,heresy ,consists in making ,god ,better than he is ,thought to ,be--,a ,fatal ,biblical ,passage--,judge ,comegys--,wilmington ,preachers--,states with ,laws against ,blasphemy--,no ,danger of ,infidel ,mobs--,no ,attack on the ,state of ,delaware ,contemplated--,comegys a ,resurrection--,grand ,jury's ,refusal to ,indict--,advice about the ,cutting out of ,heretics' ,tongues--,objections to the ,whipping-post--,mr4 ,bergh's ,bill--,one ,remedy for ,wife-beating4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,rev4 ,,drs4 ,,thomas ,,and ,,lorimer4 7#hhhb47 ,solemnity--,charged with ,being ,insincere--,irreverence--,old ,testament ,better than the ,new--,why ,hurt our ,feelings8--,involuntary ,action of the ,brain--,source of our ,conceptions of ,space--,good and ,bad--,right and ,wrong--,the ,minister1 the ,horse and the ,lord's ,prayer--,men ,responsible for their ,actions--,the ,gradual ,theory ,not ,applicable to the ,omniscient--,prayer ,powerless to ,alter ,results--,religious ,persecution--,orthodox ,ministers ,made ,ashamed of their ,creed--,purgatory--,infidelity and ,baptism ,contrasted--,modern ,conception of the ,universe--,the ,golden ,bridge of ,life--,the ,only ,salutation--,the ,test for ,admission to ,heaven--,scurrility4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,rev4 ,,john ,,hall ,,and ,,warner ,,van ,,norden4 7#ahib47 ,dr4 ,hall has no ,time to ,discuss the subject of ,starving ,workers--,cloakmakers' ,strike--,warner ,van ,norden of the ,church ,extension ,society--,the ,uncharitableness of ,organized ,charity--,defence of the ,cloakmakers--,life of the ,underpaid--,on the ,assertion that ,assistance encourages ,idleness and ,crime--,the ,man without ,pity an ,intellectual ,beast--,tendency of ,prosperity to ,breed ,selfishness--,thousands ,idle without ,fault--,egotism of ,riches--,van ,norden's ,idea of ,happiness--,the ,worthy ,poor4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,rev4 ,,dr4 ,,plumb4 7#ahih47 ,interview in a ,boston ,paper--,why should a ,minister call this a ,poor ,world8--,would an ,infinite ,god make ,people who ,need a ,redeemer8--,gospel ,gossip--,christ's ,sayings ,repetitions--,the ,philosophy of ,confucius--,rev4 ,mr4 ,mills--,the ,charge of ,robbery--,the ,divine ,plan4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,new ,,york ,,clergy ,,on ,,superstition4 7#ahih47 ,interview in the ,new ,york ,journal--,rev4 ,roberts4 ,mac,arthur--,a ,personal ,devil--,devils who held ,conversations with ,christ not simply personifications of ,evil--,the ,temptation--,the ,man of ,straw--,christ's ,mission authenticated by the ,casting ,out of ,devils--,spain--,god ,responsible for the ,actions of ,man--,rev4 ,dr4 ,j4 ,lewis ,parks--,rev4 ,dr4 ,e4 ,f4 ,moldehnke--,patience amidst the ,misfortunes of ,others--,yellow ,fever as a ,divine ,agent--,the ,doctrine that ,all is for the ,best--,rev4 ,mr4 ,hamlin--,why ,did ,god ,create a ,successful ,rival8--,a ,compliment by the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,belcher--,rev4 ,w4 ,c4 ,buchanan--,no ,argument ,old until it is ,answered--,why should ,god ,create sentient ,beings to be ,damned8--,rev4 ,j4 ,w4 ,campbell--,rev4 ,henry ,frank--,rev4 ,e4 ,c4,j4 ,kraeling on ,christ and the ,devil--,would he make a ,world like ,this8 ,,my ,,reviewers ,,reviewed4 99 ,this lecture was delivered by ,col4 ,ingersoll in ,san ,francisco ,cal41 ,june #bg1 #ahgg4 ,it was a reply to various clergymen of that city1 who had made violent attacks upon him after the delivery of his lectures1 ,the ,liberty of ,man1 ,woman and ,child1 and ,the ,ghosts4 ,i4 ,,against the aspersions of the pulpit and the religious press1 ,i offer in evidence this magnificent audience4 ,although ,i represent but a small part of the holy cause of intellectual liberty1 even that part shall not be defiled or smirched by a single personality4 ,whatever ,i say1 ,i shall say because ,i believe it will tend to make this world grander1 man nearer just1 the father kinder1 the mother more loving1 the children more affectionate1 and because ,i believe it will make an additional flower bloom in the pathway of every one who hears me4 ,in the first place1 what have ,i said8 ,what has been my offence8 ,what have ,i done8 ,i am spoken of by the clergy as though ,i were a wolf that in the absence of the good shepherd had fattened upon his innocent flock4 ,what have ,i said8 ,i delivered a lecture entitled1 ,the ,liberty of ,man1 ,woman and ,child4 ,in that lecture ,i said that man was entitled to physical and intellectual liberty4 ,i defined physical liberty to be the right to do right2 the right to do anything that did not interfere with the real happiness of others4 ,i defined intellectual liberty to be the right to think right1 and the right to think wrong--provided you did your best to think right4 ,this must be so1 because thought is only an instrumentality by which we seek to ascertain the truth4 ,every man has the right to think1 whether his thought is in reality right or wrong2 and he cannot be accountable to any being for thinking wrong4 ,there is upon man1 so far as thought is concerned1 the obligation to think the best he can1 and to honestly express his best thought4 ,whenever he finds what is right1 or what he honestly believes to be the right1 he is less than a man if he fears to express his conviction before an assembled world4 ,the right to do right is my definition of physical liberty4 ,the right of one human being ceases where the right of another commences4 ,my definition of intellectual liberty is1 the right to think1 whether you think right or wrong1 provided you do your best to think right4 ,i believe in ,liberty1 ,fraternity and ,equality--the ,blessed ,trinity of ,humanity4 ,i believe in ,observation1 ,reason and ,experience--the ,blessed ,trinity of ,science4 ,i believe in ,man1 ,woman and ,child--the ,blessed ,trinity of ,life and ,joy4 ,i have said1 and still say1 that you have no right to endeavor by force to compel another to think your way--that man has no right to compel his fellow-man to adopt his creed1 by torture or social ostracism4 ,i have said1 and still say1 that even an infinite ,god has and can have no right to compel by force or threats even the meanest of mankind to accept a dogma abhorrent to his mind4 ,as a matter of fact such a power is incapable of being exercised4 ,you may compel a man to say that he has changed his mind4 ,you may force him to say that he agrees with you4 ,in this way1 however1 you make hypocrites1 not converts4 ,is it possible that a god wishes the worship of a slave8 ,does a god desire the homage of a coward8 ,does he really long for the adoration of a hypocrite8 ,is it possible that he requires the worship of one who dare not think8 ,if ,i were a god it seems to me that ,i had rather have the esteem and love of one grand1 brave man1 with plenty of heart and plenty of brain1 than the blind worship1 the ignorant adoration1 the trembling homage of a universe of men afraid to reason4 ,and yet ,i am warned by the orthodox guardians of this great city not to think4 ,i am told that ,i am in danger of hell2 that for me to express my honest convictions is to excite the wrath of ,god4 ,they inform me that unless ,i believe in a certain way1 meaning their way1 ,i am in danger of everlasting fire4 ,there was a time when these threats whitened the faces of men with fear4 ,that time has substantially passed away4 ,for a hundred years hell has been gradually growing cool1 the flames have been slowly dying out1 the brimstone is nearly exhausted1 the fires have been burning lower and lower1 and the climate gradually changing4 ,to such an extent has the change already been effected that if ,i were going there to-night ,i would take an overcoat and a box of matches4 ,they say that the eternal future of man depends upon his belief4 ,i deny it4 ,a conclusion honestly arrived at by the brain cannot possibly be a crime2 and the man who says it is1 does not think so4 ,the god who punishes it as a crime is simply an infamous tyrant4 ,as for me1 ,i would a thousand times rather go to perdition and suffer its torments with the brave1 grand thinkers of the world1 than go to heaven and keep the company of a god who would damn his children for an honest belief4 ,the next thing ,i have said is1 that woman is the equal of man2 that she has every right that man has1 and one more--the right to be protected1 because she is the weaker4 ,i have said that marriage should be an absolutely perfect partnership of body and soul2 that a man should treat his wife like a splendid flower1 and that she should fill his life with perfume and with joy4 ,i have said that a husband had no right to be morose2 that he had no right to assassinate the sunshine and murder the joy of life4 ,i have said that when he went home he should go like a ray of light1 and fill his house so full of joy that it would burst out of the doors and windows and illumine even the darkness of night4 ,i said that marriage was the holiest1 highest1 the most sacred institution among men2 that it took millions of years for woman to advance from the condition of absolute servitude1 from the absolute slavery where the ,bible found her and left her1 up to the position she occupies at present4 ,i have pleaded for the rights of woman1 for the rights of wives1 and what is more1 for the rights of little children4 ,i have said that they could be governed by affection1 by love1 and that my heart went out to all the children of poverty and of crime2 to the children that live in the narrow streets and in the sub-cellars2 to the children that run and hide when they hear the footsteps of a brutal father1 the children that grow pale when they hear their names pronounced even by a mother2 to all the little children1 the flotsam and jetsam upon the wide1 rude sea of life4 ,i have said that my heart goes out to them one and all2 ,i have asked fathers and mothers to cease beating their own flesh and blood4 ,i have said to them1 ,when your child does wrong1 put your arms around him2 let him feel your heart beat against his4 ,it is easier to control your child with a kiss than with a club4 ,for expressing these sentiments1 ,i have been denounced by the religious press and by ministers in their pulpits as a demon1 as an enemy of order1 as a fiend1 as an infamous man4 ,of this1 however1 ,i make no complaint4 ,a few years ago they would have burned me at the stake and ,i should have been compelled to look upon their hypocritical faces through flame and smoke4 ,they cannot do it now or they would4 ,one hundred years ago ,i would have been burned1 simply for pleading for the rights of men4 ,fifty years ago ,i would have been imprisoned4 ,fifty years ago my wife and my children would have been torn from my arms in the name of the most merciful ,god4 ,twenty-five years ago ,i could not have made a living in the ,united ,states at the practice of law2 but ,i can now4 ,i would not then have been allowed to express my thought2 but ,i can now1 and ,i will4 ,and when ,i think about the liberty ,i now enjoy1 the whole horizon is illuminated with glory and the air is filled with wings4 ,i then delivered another lecture entitled ,ghosts1 in which ,i sought to show that man had been controlled by phantoms of his own imagination2 in which ,i sought to show these imps of darkness1 these devils1 had all been produced by superstition2 in which ,i endeavored to prove that man had groveled in the dust before monsters of his own creation2 in which ,i endeavored to demonstrate that the many had delved in the soil that the few might live in idleness1 that the many had lived in caves and dens that the few might dwell in palaces of gold2 in which ,i endeavored to show that man had received nothing from these ghosts except hatred1 except ignorance1 except unhappiness1 and that in the name of phantoms man had covered the face of the world with tears4 ,and for this1 ,i have been assailed1 in the name1 ,i presume1 of universal forgiveness4 ,so far as any argument ,i have produced is concerned1 it cannot in any way make the slightest difference whether ,i am a good or a bad man4 ,it cannot in any way make the slightest difference whether my personal character is good or bad4 ,that is not the question1 though1 so far as ,i am concerned1 ,i am willing to stake the whole question upon that issue4 ,that is not1 however1 the thing to be discussed1 nor the thing to be decided4 ,the question is1 whether what ,i said is true4 ,i did say that from ghosts we had obtained certain things--among other things a book known as the ,bible4 ,from the ghosts we received that book2 and the believers in ghosts pretend that upon that book rests the doctrine of the immortality of the human soul4 ,this ,i deny4 ,whether or not the soul is immortal is a fact in nature and cannot be changed by any book whatever4 ,if ,i am immortal1 ,i am4 ,if am not1 no book can render me so4 ,it is no mure wonderful that ,i should live again than that ,i do live4 ,the doctrine of immortality is not based upon any book4 ,the foundation of that idea is not a creed4 ,the idea of immortality1 which1 like a sea1 has ebbed and flowed in the human heart1 beating with its countless waves of hope and fear against the shores and rocks of fate and time1 was not born of any book1 was not born of a creed4 ,it is not the child of any religion4 ,it was born of human affection2 and it will continue to ebb and flow beneath the mists and clouds of doubt and darkness as long as love kisses the lips of death4 ,it is the eternal bow--,hope shining upon the tears of ,grief4 ,i did say that these ghosts taught that human slavery was right4 ,if there is a crime beneath the shining stars it is the crime of enslaving a human being4 ,slavery enslaves not only the slave1 but the master as well4 ,when you put a chain upon the limbs of another1 you put a fetter also upon your own brain4 ,i had rather be a slave than a slaveholder4 ,the slave can at least be just--the slaveholder cannot4 ,i had rather be robbed than be a robber4 ,i had rather be stolen from than to be a thief4 ,i have said1 and ,i do say1 that the ,bible upheld1 sustained and sanctioned the institution of human slavery2 and before ,i get through ,i will prove it4 ,i said that to the same book we are indebted1 to a great degree1 for the doctrine of witchcraft4 ,relying upon its supposed sacred texts1 people were hanged and their bodies burned for getting up storms at sea with the intent of drowning royal vermin4 ,every possible offence was punished under the name of witchcraft1 from souring beer to high treason4 ,i also said1 and ,i still say1 that the book we obtained from the ghosts1 for the guidance of man1 upheld the infamy of infamies1 called polygamy2 and ,i will also prove that4 ,and the same book teaches1 not political liberty1 but political tyranny4 ,i also said that the author of the book given us by the ghosts knew nothing about astronomy1 still less about geology1 still less1 if possible1 about medicine1 and still less about legislation4 ,this is what ,i have said concerning the aristocracy of the air4 ,i am well aware that having said it ,i ought to be able to prove the truth of my words4 ,i have said these things4 ,no one ever said them in better nature than ,i have4 ,i have not the slightest malice--a victor never felt malice4 ,as soon as ,i had said these things1 various gentlemen felt called upon to answer me4 ,i want to say that if there is anything ,i like in the world it is fairness4 ,and one reason ,i like it so well is that ,i have had so little of it4 ,i can say1 if ,i wish1 extremely mean and hateful things4 ,i have read a great many religious papers and discussions and think that ,i now know all the infamous words in our language4 ,i know how to account for every noble action by a mean and wretched motive1 and that1 in my judgment1 embraces nearly the entire science of modern theology4 ,the moment ,i delivered a lecture upon ,the ,liberty of ,man1 ,woman and ,child1 ,i was charged with having said that there is nothing back of nature1 and that nature with its infinite arms embraces everything2 and thereupon ,i was informed that ,i believed in nothing but matter and force1 that ,i believed only in earth1 that ,i did not believe in spirit4 ,if by spirit you mean that which thinks1 then ,i am a believer in spirit4 ,if you mean by spirit the something that says ,i1 the something that reasons1 hopes1 loves and aspires1 then ,i am a believer in spirit4 ,whatever spirit there is in the universe must be a natural thing1 and not superimposed upon nature4 ,all that ,i can say is1 that whatever is1 is natural4 ,and there is as much goodness1 in my judgment1 as much spirit in this world as in any other2 and you are just as near the heart of the universe here as you can be anywhere4 ,one of your clergymen says in answer1 as he supposes1 to me1 that there is matter and force and spirit4 ,well1 can matter exist without force8 ,what would keep it together8 ,what would keep the finest possible conceivable atom together unless there was force8 ,can you imagine such a thing as matter without force8 ,can you conceive of force without matter8 ,can you conceive of force floating about attached to nothing8 ,can you possibly conceive of this8 ,no human being can conceive of force without matter4 ,you cannot conceive of force being harnessed or hitched to matter as you would hitch horses to a carriage4 ,you cannot4 ,now1 what is spirit8 ,they say spirit is the first thing that was4 ,it seems to me1 however1 as though spirit was the blossom1 the fruit of all1 not the commencement4 ,they say it was first4 ,very well4 ,spirit without force1 a spirit without any matter--what would that spirit do8 ,no force1 no matter6--a spirit living in an infinite vacuum4 ,what would such a spirit turn its particular attention to8 ,this spirit1 according to these theologians1 created the world1 the universe2 and if it did1 there must have been a time when it commenced to create2 and back of that there must have been an eternity spent in absolute idleness4 ,now1 is it possible that a spirit existed during an eternity without any force and without any matter8 ,is it possible that force could exist without matter or spirit8 ,is it possible that matter could exist alone1 if by matter you mean something without force8 ,the only answer ,i can give to all these questions is1 ,i do not know4 ,for my part1 ,i do not know what spirit is1 if there is any4 ,i do not know what matter is1 neither am ,i acquainted with the elements of force4 ,if you mean by matter that which ,i can touch1 that which occupies space1 then ,i believe in matter4 ,if you mean by force anything that can overcome weight1 that can overcome what we call gravity or inertia2 if you mean by force that which moves the molecules of matter1 or the movement itself1 then ,i believe in force4 ,if you mean by spirit that which thinks and loves1 then ,i believe in spirit4 ,there is1 however1 no propriety in wasting any time about the science of metaphysics4 ,i will give you my definition of metaphysics3 ,two fools get together2 each admits what neither can prove1 and thereupon both of them say1 hence we infer4 ,that is all there is of metaphysics4 ,these gentlemen1 however1 say to me that all my doctrine about the treatment of wives and children1 all my ideas of the rights of man1 all these are wrong1 because ,i am not exactly correct as to my notion #ja spirit4 ,they say that spirit existed first1 at least an eternity before there was any force or any matter4 ,exactly how spirit could act without force we do not understand4 ,that we must take upon credit4 ,how spirit could create matter without force is a serious question1 and we are too reverent to press such an inquiry4 ,we are bound to be satisfied1 however1 that spirit is entirely independent of force and matter1 and any man who denies this must be a malevolent and infamous wretch4 ,another reverend gentleman proceeds to denounce all ,i have said as the doctrine of negation4 ,and we are informed by him--speaking ,i presume from experience--that negation is a poor thing to die by4 ,he tells us that the last hours are the grand testing hours4 ,they are the hours when atheists disown their principles and infidels bewail their folly--that ,voltaire and ,thomas ,paine wrote sharply against ,christianity1 but their death-bed scenes are too harrowing for recital--,he also states that another ,french infidel philosopher tried in vain to fortify ,voltaire1 but that a stronger man than ,voltaire had taken possession of him1 and he cried ',retire6 it is you that have brought me to my present state--,begone6 what a rich glory you have brought me4' ,this1 my friends1 is the same old1 old falsehood that has been repeated again and again by the lips of hatred and hypocrisy4 ,there is not in one of these stories a solitary word of truth2 and every intelligent man knows all these death-bed accounts to be entirely and utterly false4 ,they are taken1 however1 by the mass of the church as evidence that all opposition to ,christianity1 so-called1 fills the bed of the dying infidel and scoffer with serpents and scorpions4 ,so far as my experience goes1 the bad die in many instances as placidly as the good4 ,i have sometimes thought that a hardened wretch1 upon whose memory is engraved the record of nearly every possible crime1 dies without a shudder1 without a tremor1 while some grand1 good man1 remembering during his last moments an unkind word spoken to a stranger1 it may be in the heat of anger1 dies with remorseful words upon his lips4 ,nearly every murderer who is hanged1 dies with an immensity of nerve1 but ,i never thought it proved that he had lived a good and useful life4 ,neither have ,i imagined that it sanctified the crime for which he suffered death4 ,the fact is1 that when man approaches natural death1 his powers1 his intellectual faculties fail and grow dim4 ,he becomes a child4 ,he has less and less sense4 ,and just in proportion as he loses his reasoning powers1 he goes back to the superstitions of his childhood4 ,the scenes of youth cluster about him and he is again in the lap of his mother4 ,of this very fact1 there is not a more beautiful description than that given by ,shakespeare when he takes that old mass of wit and filth1 ,jack ,falstaff1 in his arms1 and ,mrs ,quickly says3 ,a' made a finer end1 and went away1 an it had been my christom child2 a' parted ev'n just between twelve and one1 ev'n at the turning o' the tide2 for after ,i saw him fumble with the sheets1 and play with flowers1 and smile upon his fingers' end1 ,i knew there was but one way2 for his nose was as sharp as a pen1 and a' babbled of green fields4 ,as the genius of ,shakespeare makes ,falstaff a child again upon sunny slopes1 decked with daisies1 so death takes the dying back to the scenes of their childhood1 and they are clasped once more to the breasts of mothers4 ,they go back1 for the reason that nearly every superstition in the world has been sanctified by some sweet and placid mother4 ,remember1 the superstition has never sanctified the mother1 but the mother has sanctified the superstition4 ,the young ,mohammedan1 who now lies dying upon some field of battle1 thinks sweet and tender thoughts of home and mother1 and will1 as the blood oozes from his veins1 repeat some holy verse from the blessed ,koran4 ,every superstition in the world that is now held sacred has been made so by mothers1 by fathers1 by the recollections of home4 ,i know what it has cost the noble1 the brave1 the tender1 to throw away every superstition1 although sanctified by the memory of those they loved4 ,whoever has thrown away these superstitions has been pursued by his fellow-men1 ,from the day of the death of ,voltaire the church has pursued him as though he had been the vilest criminal4 ,a little over one hundred years ago1 ,catholicism1 the inventor of instruments of torture1 red with the innocent blood of millions1 felt in its heartless breast the dagger of ,voltaire4 ,from that blow the ,catholic ,church never can recover4 ,livid with hatred she launched at her assassin the curse of ,rome1 and ignorant ,protestants have echoed that curse4 ,for myself1 ,i like ,voltaire1 and whenever ,i think of that name1 it is to me as a plume floating above some grand knight--a knight who rides to a walled city and demands an unconditional surrender4 ,i like him4 ,he was once imprisoned in the ,bastile1 and while in that frightful fortress--and ,i like to tell it--he changed his name4 ,his name was ,francois ,marie ,arouet4 ,in his gloomy cell he changed this name to ,voltaire1 and when some sixty years afterward the ,bastile was torn down to the very dust1 ,voltaire was the battle cry of the destroyers who did it4 ,i like him because he did more for religious toleration than any other man who ever lived or died4 ,i admire him because he did more to do away with torture in civil proceedings than any other man4 ,i like him because he was always upon the side of justice1 upon the side of progress4 ,i like him in spite of his faults1 because he had many and splendid virtues4 ,i like him because his doctrines have never brought unhappiness to any country4 ,i like him because he hated tyranny2 and when he died he died as serenely as ever mortal died2 he spoke to his servant recognizing him as a man4 ,he said to him1 calling him by name3 ,my friend1 farewell4 ,these were the last words of ,voltaire4 ,and this was the only frightful scene enacted at his bed of death4 ,i like ,voltaire1 because for half a century he was the intellectual emperor of ,europe4 ,i like him1 because from his throne at the foot of the ,alps he pointed the finger of scorn at every hypocrite in ,christendom4 ,i will give to any clergyman in the city of ,san ,francisco a thousand dollars in gold to substantiate the story that the death of ,voltaire was not as peaceful as the coming of the dawn4 ,the same absurd story is told of ,thomas ,paine4 ,thomas ,paine was a patriot--he was the first man in the world to write these words3 ,the ,free and ,independent ,states of ,america4 ,he was the first man to convince the ,american people that they ought to separate themselves from ,great ,britain4 ,his pen did as much1 to say the least1 for the liberty of ,america1 as the sword of ,washington4 ,the men who have enjoyed the benefit of his heroic services repay them with slander and calumny4 ,if there is in this world a crime1 ingratitude is a crime4 ,and as for myself1 ,i am not willing to receive anything from any man without making at least an acknowledgment of my obligation4 ,y et these clergymen1 whose very right to stand in their pulpits and preach1 was secured to them by such men as ,thomas ,paine1 delight in slandering the reputation of that great man4 ,they tell their hearers that he died in fear1--that he died in agony1 hearing devils rattle chains1 and that the infinite ,god condescended to frighten a dying man4 ,i will give one thousand dollars in gold to any clergyman in ,san ,francisco who will substantiate the truth of the absurd stories concerning the death of ,thomas ,paine4 ,there is not one word of truth in these accounts2 not one word4 ,let me ask one thing1 and let me ask it1 if you please1 in what is called a reverent spirit4 ,suppose that ,voltaire and ,thomas ,paine1 and ,volney and ,hume and ,hobbes had cried out when dying ,my ,god1 ,my ,god1 why hast thou forsaken me8 what would the clergymen of this city then have said8 ,to resort to these foolish calumnies about the great men who have opposed the superstitions of the world1 is in my judgment1 unbecoming any intelligent man4 ,the real question is not1 who is afraid to die8 ,the question is1 who is right8 ,the great question is not1 who died right1 but who lived right8 ,there is infinitely more responsibility in living than in dying4 ,the moment of death is the most unimportant moment of life4 ,nothing can be done then4 ,you cannot even do a favor for a friend1 except to remember him in your will4 ,it is a moment when life ceases to be of value4 ,while living1 while you have health and strength1 you can augment the happiness of your fellow-men2 and the man who has made others happy need not be afraid to die4 ,yet these believers1 as they call themselves1 these believers who hope for immortality--thousands of them1 will rob their neighbors1 thousands of them will do numberless acts of injustice1 when1 according to their belief1 the witnesses of their infamy will live forever2 and the men whom they have injured and outraged1 will meet them in every glittering star through all the ages yet to be4 ,as for me1 ,i would rather do a generous action1 and read the record in the grateful faces of my fellow-men4 ,these gentlemen who attack me are orthodox now1 but the men who started their churches were heretics4 ,the first ,presbyterian was a heretic4 ,the first ,baptist was a heretic4 ,the first ,congregationalist was a heretic4 ,the first ,christian was denounced as a blasphemer4 ,and yet these heretics1 the moment they get numerous enough to be in the majority in some locality1 begin to call themselves orthodox4 ,can there be any impudence beyond this8 ,the first ,baptist1 as ,i said before1 was a heretic2 and he was the best ,baptist that ,i have ever heard anything about4 ,i always liked him4 ,he was a good man--,roger ,williams4 ,he was the first man1 so far as ,i know1 in this country1 who publicly said that the soul of man should be free4 ,and it was a wonder to me that a man who had sense enough to say that1 could think that any particular form of baptism was necessary to salvation4 ,it does strike me that a man of great brain and thought could not possibly think the eternal welfare of a human being1 the question whether he should dwell with angels1 or be tossed upon eternal waves of fire1 should be settled by the manner in which he had been baptized4 ,that seems1 to me so utterly destitute of thought and heart1 that it is a matter of amazement to me that any man ever looked upon the ordinance of baptism as of any importance whatever4 ,if we were at the judgment seat to-night1 and the ,supreme ,being1 in our hearing1 should ask a man3 ,have you been a good man8 and the man replied3 ,tolerably good4 ,did you love your wife and children8 ,yes4 ,did you try and make them happy8 ,yes4 ,did you try and make your neighbors happy8 ,yes1 ,i paid my debts3 ,i gave heaping measure1 and ,i never cared whether ,i was thanked for it or not4 ,suppose the ,supreme ,being then should say3 ,were you ever baptized8 and the man should reply3 ,i am sorry to say ,i never was4 ,could a solitary person of sense hear that question asked1 by the ,supreme ,being1 without laughing1 even if he knew that his own case was to be called next8 ,i happened to be in the company of six or seven ,baptist elders--how ,i ever got into such bad company1 ,i don't know1--and one of them asked what ,i thought about baptism4 ,well1 ,i never thought much about it2 did not know much about it2 didn't want to say anything1 but they insisted upon it4 ,i said1 ,well1 ,i'll give you my opinion--with soap1 baptism is a good thing4 ,the ,reverend ,mr4 ,guard has answered me1 as ,i am informed1 upon several occasions4 ,i have read the reports of his remarks1 and have boiled them down4 ,he said some things about me not entirely pleasant1 which ,i do not wish to repeat4 ,in his reply he takes the ground3 ,first4 ,that the ,bible is not an immoral book1 because he swore upon it or by it when he joined the ,masons4 ,second4 ,he excuses ,solomon for all his crimes upon the supposition that he had softening of the brain1 or a fatty degeneration of the heart4 ,third4 ,that the ,hebrews had the right to slay all the inhabitants of ,canaan1 according to the doctrine of the survival of the fittest4 ,he takes the ground that the destruction of these ,canaanites1 the ripping open of women with child by the sword of war1 was an act of sublime mercy4 ,he justifies a war of extermination2 he applauds every act of cruelty and murder4 ,he says that the ,canaanites ought to have been turned from their homes2 that men guilty of no crime except fighting for their country1 old men with gray hairs1 old mothers and little1 dimpled1 prattling children1 ought to have been sacrificed upon the altar of war2 that it was an act of sublime mercy to plunge the sword of religious persecution into the bodies of all1 old and young4 ,this is what the reverend gentleman is pleased to call mercy4 ,if this is mercy let us have injustice4 ,if there is in the heavens such a ,god ,i am sorry that man exists4 ,all this1 however1 is justified upon the ground that ,god has the right to do as he pleases with the being he has created4 ,this ,i deny4 ,such a doctrine is infamously false4 ,suppose ,i could take a stone and in one moment change it into a sentient1 hoping1 loving human being1 would ,i have the right to torture it8 ,would ,i have the right to give it pain8 ,no one but a fiend would either exercise or justify such a right4 ,even if there is a ,god who created us all he has no such right4 ,above any ,god that can exist1 in the infinite serenity forever sits the figure of justice2 and this ,god1 no matter how great and infinite he may be1 is bound to do justice4 ,fourth4 ,that ,god chose the ,jews and governed them personally for thousands of years1 and drove out the ,canaanites in order that his peculiar people might not be corrupted by the example of idolaters2 that he wished to make of the ,hebrews a great nation1 and that1 consequently1 he was justified in destroying the original inhabitants of that country4 ,it seems to me that the end hardly justified the means4 ,according to the account1 ,god governed the ,jews personally for many ages and succeeded in civilizing them to that degree1 that they crucified him the first opportunity they had4 ,such an administration can hardly be called a success4 ,fifth4 ,the reverend gentleman seems to think that the practice of polygamy after all is not a bad thing when compared with the crime of exhibiting a picture of ,antony and ,cleopatra4 ,upon the corrupting influence of such pictures he descants at great length1 and attacks with all the bitterness of the narrow theologian the masterpieces of art4 ,allow me to say one word about art4 ,that is one of the most beautiful words in our language--,art4 ,and it never seemed to me necessary for art to go in partnership with a rag4 ,i like the paintings of ,angelo1 of ,raffaelle4 ,i like the productions of those splendid souls that put their ideas of beauty upon the canvas uncovered4 ,there are brave souls in every land ,who worship nature1 grand and nude1 ,and who with swift indignant hand ,tear off the fig leaves of the prude4 ,sixth4 ,that it may be true that the ,bible sanctions slavery1 but that it is not an immoral book even if it does4 ,i can account for these statements1 for these arguments1 only as the reverend gentleman has accounted for the sins of ,solomon--by a softening of the brain1 or a fatty degeneration of the heart4 ,it does seem to me that if ,i were a ,christian1 and really thought my fellow-man was going down to the bottomless pit2 that he was going to misery and agony forever1 it does seem to me that ,i would try and save him4 ,it does seem to me1 that instead of having my mouth filled with epithets and invectives2 instead of drawing the lips of malice back from the teeth of hatred1 it seems to me that my eyes would be filled with tears4 ,it seems to me that ,i would do what little ,i could to reclaim him4 ,i would talk to him and of him1 in kindness4 ,i would put the arms of affection about him4 ,i would not speak of him as though he were a wild beast4 ,i would not speak to him as though he were a brute4 ,i would think of him as a man1 as a man liable to eternal torture among the damned1 and my heart would be filled with sympathy1 not hatred--my eyes with tears1 not scorn4 ,if there is anything pitiable1 it is to see a man so narrowed and withered by the blight and breath of superstition1 as cheerfully to defend the most frightful crimes of which we have a record--a man so hardened and petrified by creed and dogma that he hesitates not to defend even the institution of human slavery--so lost to all sense of pity that he applauds murder and rapine as though they were acts of the loftiest self-denial4 ,the next gentleman who has endeavored to answer what ,i have said1 is the ,rev4 ,samuel ,robinson4 ,this he has done in his sermon entitled ,ghosts against ,god or ,ingersoll against ,honesty4 ,i presume he imagines himself to be the defendant in both cases4 ,this gentleman apologized for attending an infidel lecture1 upon the ground that he had to contribute to the support of a materialistic demon4 ,to say the least1 this is not charitable4 ,but ,i am satisfied4 ,i am willing to exchange facts for epithets4 ,i fare so much better than did the infidels in the olden time that ,i am more than satisfied4 ,it is a little thing that ,i bear4 ,the brave men of the past endured the instruments of torture4 ,they were stretched upon racks2 their feet were crushed in iron boots2 they stood upon the shores of exile and gazed with tearful eyes toward home and native land4 ,they were taken from their firesides1 from their wives1 from their children2 they were taken to the public square2 they were chained to stakes1 and their ashes were scattered by the countless hands of hatred4 ,i am satisfied4 ,the disciples of fear cannot touch me4 ,this gentlemen hated to contribute a cent to the support of a materialistic demon4 ,when ,i saw that statement ,i will tell you what ,i did4 ,i knew the man's conscience must be writhing in his bosom to think that he had contributed a dollar toward my support1 toward the support of a materialistic demon4 ,i wrote him a letter and ,i said3 ,my ,dear ,sir3 ,in order to relieve your conscience of the crime of having contributed to the support of an unbeliever in ghosts1 ,i hereby enclose the amount you paid to attend my lecture4 ,i then gave him a little good advice4 ,i advised him to be charitable1 to be kind1 and regretted exceedingly that any man could listen to one of my talks for an hour and a half and not go away satisfied that all men had the same right to think4 ,this man denied having received the money1 but it was traced to him through a blot on the envelope4 ,this gentleman avers that everything that ,i said about persecution is applicable to the ,catholic ,church only4 ,that is what he says4 ,the ,catholics have probably persecuted more than any other church1 simply because that church has had more power1 simply because it has been more of a church4 ,it has to-day a better organization1 and as a rule1 the ,catholics come nearer believing what they say about their church than other ,christians do4 ,was it a ,catholic persecution that drove the ,puritan fathers from ,england8 ,was it not the storm of ,episcopal persecution that filled the sails of the ,mayflower8 ,was it not a ,protestant persecution that drove the ,ark and ,dove to ,america8 ,let us be honest4 ,who went to ,scotland and persecuted the ,presbyterians8 ,who was it that chained to the stake that splendid girl by the sands of the sea for not saying ,god save the king8 ,she was worthy to have been the mother of ,caesar4 ,she would not say ,god save the king1 but she would say ,god save the king1 if it be ,god's will4 ,protestants ordered her to say ,god save the king1 and no more4 ,she said1 ,i will not1 and they chained her to a stake in the sand and allowed her to be drowned by the rising of the inexorable tide4 ,who did this8 ,protestants4 ,who drove ,roger ,williams from ,massachusetts8 ,protestants4 ,who sold white ,quaker children into slavery8 ,protestants4 ,who cut out the tongues of ,quakers8 ,who burned and destroyed men and women and children charged with impossible crimes8 ,protestants4 ,the ,protestants have persecuted exactly to the extent of their power4 ,the ,catholics have done the same4 ,i want1 however1 to be just4 ,the first people to pass an act of religious toleration in the ,new ,world were the ,catholics of ,maryland4 ,the next were the ,baptists of ,rhode ,island1 led by ,roger ,williams4 ,the ,catholics passed the act of religious toleration1 and after the ,protestants got into power again in ,england1 and also in the colony of ,maryland1 they repealed the law of toleration and passed another law declaring the ,catholics from under the protection of all law4 ,afterward1 the ,catholics again got into power and had the generosity and magnanimity to re-enact the old law4 ,and1 so far as ,i know1 it is the only good record upon the subject of religious toleration the ,catholics have in this world1 and ,i am always willing to give them credit for it4 ,this gentleman also says that infidelity has done nothing for the world in the development of the arts and sciences4 ,does he not know that nearly every man who took a forward step was denounced by the church as a heretic and infidel8 ,does he not know that the church has in all ages persecuted the astronomers1 the geologists1 the logicians8 ,does he not know that even to-day the church slanders and maligns the foremost men8 ,has he ever heard of ,tyndall1 of ,huxley8 ,is he acquainted with ,john ,w4 ,draper1 one of the leading minds of the world8 ,did he ever hear of ,auguste ,comte1 the great ,frenchman8 ,did he ever hear of ,descartes1 of ,laplace1 of ,spinoza8 ,in short1 has he ever heard of a man who took a step in advance of his time8 ,orthodoxy never advances4 ,when it advances1 it ceases to be orthodoxy and becomes heresy4 ,orthodoxy is putrefaction4 ,it is intellectual cloaca2 it cannot advance4 ,what the church calls infidelity is simply free thought4 ,every man who really owns his own brain is1 in the estimation of the church1 an infidel4 ,there is a paper published in this city called ,the ,occident4 ,the ,editor has seen fit to speak of me1 and of the people who have assembled to hear me1 in the lowest1 vilest and most scurrilous terms possible4 ,i cannot afford to reply in the same spirit4 ,he alleges that the people who assemble to hear me are the low1 the debauched and the infamous4 ,the man who reads that paper ought to read it with tongs4 ,it is a ,presbyterian sheet2 and would gladly treat me as ,john ,calvin treated ,castalio4 ,castalio was the first minister in the history of ,christendom who acknowledged the innocence of honest error1 and ,john ,calvin followed him like a sleuth-hound of perdition4 ,he called him a dog of ,satan2 said that he had crucified ,christ afresh2 and pursued him to the very grave4 ,the editor of this paper is still warming his hands at the fire that burned ,servetus4 ,he has in his heart the same fierce hatred of everything that is free4 ,but what right have we to expect anything good of a man who believes in the eternal damnation of infants8 ,there may have been sometime in the history of the world a worse religion than ,old ,school ,presbyterianism1 but if there ever was1 from cannibalism to civilization1 ,i have never heard of it4 ,i make a distinction between the members and the creed of that church4 ,i know many who are a thousand times better than the creed--good1 warm and splendid friends of mine4 ,i would do anything in the world for them4 ,and ,i have said to them a hundred times1 ,you are a thousand times better than your creed4 ,but when you come down to the doctrine of the damnation of infants1 it is the deformity of deformities4 ,the editor of this paper is engaged in giving the world the cheerful doctrines of fore-ordination and damnation--those twin comforts of the ,presbyterian creed1 and warning them against the frightful effects of reasoning in any manner for themselves4 ,he regards the intellectually free as the lowest1 the vilest and the meanest1 as men who wish to sin1 as men who are longing to commit crime1 men who are anxious to throw off all restraint4 ,my friends1 every chain thrown from the body puts an additional obligation upon the soul4 ,every man who is free1 puts a responsibility upon his brain and upon his heart4 ,you1 who never want responsibility1 give your souls to some church4 ,you1 who never want the feeling that you are under obligation to yourselves1 give your souls away4 ,but if you are willing to feel and meet responsibility2 if you feel that you must give an account not only to yourselves but to every human being whom you injure1 then you must be free4 ,where there is no freedom1 there can be no responsibility4 ,it is a mystery to me why the editors of religious papers are so malicious1 why they endeavor to answer argument with calumny4 ,is it because they feel the sceptre slowly slipping from their hands8 ,is it the result of impotent rage8 ,is it because there is being written upon every orthodox brain a certificate of intellectual inferiority8 ,this same editor assures his readers that what ,i say is not worth answering1 and yet he devotes column after column of his journal to that very purpose4 ,he states that ,i am no speaker1 no orator2 and upon the same page admits that he did not hear me1 giving as a reason that he does not think it right to pay money for such a purpose4 ,recollect1 that in a religious paper1 a man who professes honesty1 criticises a statue or a painting1 condemns it1 and at the end of the criticism says that he never saw it4 ,he criticises what he calls the oratory of a man1 and at the end says1 ,i never heard him1 and ,i never saw him4 ,as a matter of fact1 ,i have never heard of any of these gentlemen who thought it necessary to hear what any man said in order to answer him4 ,the next gentleman who answered me is the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,ijams4 ,and ,i must say1 so far as ,i can see1 in his argument1 or in his mode of treatment1 he is a kind and considerate gentleman4 ,he makes several mistakes as to what ,i really said1 but the fault ,i suppose must have been in the report4 ,i am made to say in the report of his sermon1 ,there is no sacred place in all the universe4 ,what ,i did say was1 ,there is no sacred place in all the universe of thought4 ,there is nothing too holy to be investigated1 nothing too divine to be understood4 ,the fields of thought are fenceless1 and without a wall4 ,i say this to-night4 ,mr4 ,ijams also says that ,i had declared that man had not only the right to do right1 but also the right to do wrong4 ,what ,i really said was1 man has the right to do right1 and the right to think right1 and the right to think wrong4 ,thought is a means of ascertaining truth1 a mode by which we arrive at conclusions4 ,and if no one has a right to think1 unless he thinks right1 he would only have the right to think upon self-evident propositions4 ,in all respects1 with the exception of these misstatements to which ,i have called your attention1 so far as ,i can see1 ,mr4 ,ijams was perfectly fair1 and treated me as though ,i had the ordinary rights of a human being4 ,i take this occasion to thank him4 ,a great many papers1 a great many people1 a good many ministers and a multitude of men1 have had their say1 and have expressed themselves with the utmost freedom4 ,i cannot reply to them all4 ,i can only reply to those who have made a parade of answering me4 ,many have said it is not worth answering1 and then proceeded to answer4 ,they have said1 he has produced no argument1 and then have endeavored to refute it4 ,they have said it is simply the old straw that has been thrashed over and over again for years and years4 ,if all ,i have said is nothing1 if it is all idle and foolish1 why do they take up the time of their fellow-men replying to me8 ,why do they fill their religious papers with criticisms1 if all ,i have said and done reminds them1 according to the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,guard1 of some little dog barking at a railway train8 ,why stop the train1 why send for the directors1 why hold a consultation and finally say1 we must settle with that dog or stop running these cars8 ,probably the best way to answer them all1 is to prove beyond cavil the truth of what ,i have said4 ,,does ,,the ,,bible ,,teach ,,man ,,to ,,enslave ,,his ,,brother8 ,,ii4 ,,if this sacred book teaches man to enslave his brother1 it is not inspired4 ,a god who would establish slavery is as cruel and heartless as any devil could be4 ,moreover1 of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you1 of them shall ye buy1 and of their families that are with you1 which they begat in your land1 and they shall be your possession4 ,and ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you1 to inherit them for a possession4 ,they shall be your bondmen forever4 ,both thy bondmen1 and thy bondmaids1 which thou shalt have1 shall be of the heathen that are round about you2 of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids4--,leviticus xxv4 ,this is white slavery4 ,this allows one white man to buy another1 to buy a woman1 to separate families and rob a mother of her child4 ,this makes the whip upon the naked backs of men and women a legal tender for labor performed4 ,this is the kind of slavery established by the most merciful ,god4 ,the reason given for all this1 is1 that the persons whom they enslaved were heathen4 ,you may enslave them because they are not orthodox4 ,if you can find anybody who does not believe in me1 the ,god of the ,jews1 you may steal his wife from his arms1 and her babe from the cradle4 ,if you can find a woman that does not believe in the ,hebrew ,jehovah1 you may steal her prattling child from her breast4 ,can any one conceive of anything more infamous8 ,can any one find in the literature of this world more frightful words ascribed even to a demon8 ,and all this is found in that most beautiful and poetic chapter known as the #beth of ,leviticus--from the ,bible--from this sacred gift of ,god--this ,magna ,charta of human freedom4 #b4 ,if thou buy an ,hebrew servant1 six years he shall serve2 and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing4 #c4 ,if he came in by himself1 he shall go out by himself3 if he were married1 then his wife shall go out with him4 #d4 ,if his master have given him a wife1 and she hath borne him sons or daughters2 the wife and her children shall be her master's1 and he shall go out by himself4 #e4 ,and if the servant shall plainly say1 ,i love my master1 my wife1 and children2 ,i w ill not go out free3 #f4 ,then his master shall bring him unto the judges3 he shall also bring him to the door1 or unto the door-post2 and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl2 and he shall serve him forever4--,exodus1 xxi4 ,the slave is allowed to have his liberty if he will give up his wife and children4 ,he must remain in slavery for the sake of wife and child4 ,this is another of the laws of the most merciful ,god4 ,this ,god changes even love into a chain4 ,children are used by him as manacles and fetters1 and wives become the keepers of prisons4 ,any man who believes that such hideous laws were made by an infinitely wise and benevolent ,god is1 in my judgment1 insane or totally depraved4 ,these are the doctrines of the ,old ,testament4 ,what is the doctrine of the ,new8 ,what message had he who came from heaven's throne for the oppressed of earth8 ,what words of sympathy1 what words of cheer1 for those who labored and toiled without reward8 ,let us see3 ,servants1 be obedient to them that are your masters1 according to the flesh1 with fear and trembling1 in singleness of your heart1 as unto ,christ4--,ephesians1 vi4 ,this is the salutation of the most merciful ,god to a slave1 to a woman who has been robbed of her child--to a man tracked by hounds through lonely swamps--to a girl with flesh torn and bleeding--to a mother weeping above an empty cradle4 ,servants1 be subject to your masters with all fear2 not only to the good and gentle1 but also to the fro ward4--,i ,peter ii41 #ah4 ,for this is thankworthy1 if a man for conscience toward ,god endure grief1 suffering wrongfully4--,i ,peter ii41 #ai4 ,it certainly must be an immense pleasure to ,god to see a man work patiently for nothing4 ,it must please the ,most ,high to see a slave with his wife and child sold upon the auction block4 ,if this slave escapes from slavery and is pursued1 how musical the baying of the bloodhound must be to the ears of this most merciful ,god4 ,all this is simply infamous4 ,on the throne of this universe there sits no such monster4 ,servants1 obey in all things your masters1 according to the flesh2 not with eye-service1 as men pleasers2 but in singleness of heart1 fearing ,god4--,col4 iii41 #bb4 ,the apostle here seems afraid that the slave would not work every moment that his strength permitted4 ,he really seems to have feared that he might not at all times do the very best he could to promote the interests of the thief who claimed to own him4 ,and speaking to all slaves1 in the name of the ,father of ,all1 this apostle says3 ,obey in all things your masters1 not with eye-service1 but with singleness of heart1 fearing ,god4 ,he says to them in substance1 ,there is no way you can so well please ,god as to work honestly for a thief4 #a4 ,let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor1 that the name of ,god and his doctrine be not blasphemed4 ,think of serving ,god by honoring a robber6 ,think of bringing the name and doctrine of ,god into universal contempt by claiming to own yourself6 #b4 ,and they that have believing masters1 let them not despise them1 because they are brethren2 but rather do them service1 because they are faithful and beloved1 partakers of the benefit4 ,these things teach and exhort4 ,that is to say1 do not despise ,christians who steal the labor of others4 ,do not hold in contempt the faithful and beloved1 partakers of the benefit1 who turn the cross of ,christ into a whipping post4 #c4 ,if any man teach otherwise1 and consent not to wholesome words even to words of our ,lord ,jesus ,christ1 and to the doctrine which is according to godliness4 #d4 ,he is proud1 knowing nothing1 but doting about questions and strifes of words1 whereof cometh envy1 strife1 railings1 evil surmisings1 #e4 ,perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds1 and destitute of the truth1 supposing that gain is godliness3 from such withdraw thyself4 ,this seems to be the opinion the apostles entertained of the early abolitionists4 ,seeking to give human beings their rights1 seeking to give labor its just reward1 seeking to clothe all men with that divine garment of the soul1 ,liberty1--all this was denounced by the apostle as a simple strife of words1 whereof cometh envy1 railings1 evil surmisings and perverse disputing1 destitute of truth4 #f4 ,but godliness with contentment is great gain4 #g4 ,for we brought nothing into this world1 and it is certain we can carry nothing out4 #h4 ,and having food and raiment let us be therewith content4--,i ,tim41 vi4 ,this was intended to make a slave satisfied to hear the clanking of his chains4 ,this is the reason he should never try to better his condition4 ,he should be contented simply with the right to work for nothing4 ,if he only had food and raiment1 and a thief to work for1 he should be contented4 ,he should solace himself with the apostolic reflection1 that as he brought nothing into the world1 he could carry nothing out1 and that when dead he would be as happily situated as his master4 ,in order to show you what the inspired writer meant by the word servant1 ,i will read from the #bast chapter of ,exodus1 verses #bj and #ba3 ,and if a man smite his servant1 or his maid1 with a rod1 and he die under his hand2 he shall be surely punished4 ,notwithstanding1 if he continue a day or two1 he shall not be punished3 for he is his money4 ,yet1 notwithstanding these passages the ,christian ,advocate says1 the ,bible is the ,magna ,charta of our liberty4 ,after reading that1 ,i was not surprised by the following in the same paper3 ,we regret to record that ,ingersoll is on a low plane of infidelity and atheism1 not less offensive to good morals than have been the teachings of infidelity during the last century4 ,france has been cursed with such teachings for a hundred years1 and because of it1 to-day her citizens are incapable of self-government4 ,what was the condition of ,france a century ago8 ,were they capable of self-government then8 ,for fourteen hundred years the common people of ,france had suffered4 ,for fourteen hundred years they had been robbed by the altar and by the throne4 ,they had been the prey of priests and nobles4 ,all were exempt from taxation1 except the common people4 ,the cup of their suffering was full1 and the ,french people arose in fury and frenzy1 and tore the drapery from the altars of ,god1 and filled the air with the dust of thrones4 ,surely1 the slavery of fourteen centuries had not been produced by the teachings of ,voltaire4 ,i stood only a little while ago at the place where once stood the ,bastile4 ,in my imagination ,i saw that prison standing as it stood of yore4 ,i could see it attacked by the populace4 ,i could see their stormy faces and hear their cries4 ,and ,i saw that ancient fortification of tyranny go down forever4 ,and now where once stood the ,bastile stands the ,column of ,july4 ,upon its summit is a magnificent statue of ,liberty1 holding in one hand a banner1 in the other a broken chain1 and upon its shining forehead is the star of progress4 ,there it stands where once stood the ,bastile4 ,and ,france is as much superior to what it was when ,voltaire was born1 as that statue1 surmounting the ,column of ,july1 is more beautiful than the ,bastile that stood there once with its cells of darkness1 and its dungeons of horror4 ,and yet we are now told that the ,french people have rendered themselves incapable of government1 simply because they have listened to the voice of progress4 ,there are magnificent men in ,france4 ,from that country have come to the human race some of the grandest and holiest messages the ear of man has ever heard4 ,the ,french people have given to history some of the most touching acts of self-sacrifice ever performed beneath the amazed stars4 ,for my part1 ,i admire the ,french people4 ,i cannot forget the ,rue ,san ,antoine1 nor the red cap of liberty4 ,i can never cease to remember that the tricolor was held aloft in ,paris1 while ,europe was in chains1 and while liberty1 with a bleeding breast1 was in the ,inquisition of ,spain4 ,and yet we are now told by a religious paper1 that ,france is not capable of self-government4 ,i suppose it was capable of self-government under the old regime1 at the time of the massacre of ,st4 ,bartholomew4 ,i suppose it was capable of self-government when women were seen yoked with cattle pulling plows4 ,i suppose it was capable of self-government when all who labored were in a condition of slavery4 ,in the old times1 even among the priests1 there were some good1 some sincere and most excellent men4 ,i have read somewhere of a sermon preached by one of these in the ,cathedral of ,notre ,dame4 ,this old priest1 among other things1 said that the soul of a beggar was as dear to ,god as the soul of the richest of his people1 and that ,jesus ,christ died as much for a beggar as for a prince4 ,one ,french peasant1 rough with labor1 cried out3 ,i propose three cheers for ,jesus ,christ4 ,i like such things4 ,i like to hear of them4 ,i like to repeat them4 ,paris has been a kind of volcano1 and has made the heavens lurid with its lava of hatred1 but it has also contributed more than any other city to the intellectual development of man4 ,france has produced some infamous men1 among others ,john ,calvin1 but for one ,calvin1 she has produced a thousand benefactors of the human race4 ,the moment the ,french people rise above the superstitions of the church1 they will be in the highest sense capable of self-government4 ,the moment ,france succeeds in releasing herself from the coils of ,catholicism--from the shadows of superstition--from the foolish forms and mummeries of the church--from the intellectual tyranny of a thousand years--she will not only be capable of self-government1 but will govern herself4 ,let the priests be usefully employed4 ,we want no overseers of the mind2 no slave-drivers for the soul4 ,we cannot afford to pay hypocrites for depriving us of liberty4 ,it is a waste of money to pay priests to frighten our children1 and paralyze the intellect of women4 ,,was ,,the ,,world ,,created ,,in ,,six ,,days8 ,,iii4 ,,for hundreds of years it was contended by all ,christians that the earth was made in six days1 literal days of twenty-four hours each1 and that on the seventh day the ,lord rested from his labor4 ,geologists have driven the church from this position1 and it is now claimed that the days mentioned in the ,bible are periods of time4 ,this is a simple evasion1 not in any way supported by the ,scriptures4 ,the ,bible distinctly and clearly says that the world was created in six days4 ,there is not within its lids a clearer statement4 ,it does not say six periods4 ,it was made according to that book in six days3 #ca4 ,and ,god saw everything that he had made1 and1 behold1 it was very good4 ,and the evening and the morning were the sixth day4--,genesis i4 #a4 ,thus the heavens and the earth were finished1 and all the host of them4 #b4 ,and on the seventh day ,god ended his work which he had made2 and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made4 #c4 ,and ,god blessed the seventh day 7not seventh period71 and sanctified it2 because that in it he had rested from all his work which ,god created and made4--,genesis ii4 ,from the following passages it seems clear what was meant by the word days3 #ae4 ,six days may work be done2 but in the seventh is the ,sabbath of rest1 holy to the ,lord3 whosoever doeth any work in the ,sabbath day1 he shall surely be put to death4--,served him right6 #af4 ,wherefore1 the children of ,israel shall keep the ,sabbath1 to observe the ,sabbath1 throughout their generations1 for a perpetual covenant4 #ag4 ,it is a sign between me and the children of ,israel forever2 for in six days the ,lord made heaven and earth1 and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed4 #ah4 ,and he gave unto ,moses1 when he had made an end of communing with him upon ,mount ,sinai1 two tables of testimony1 tables of stone1 written with the finger of ,god4--,exodus xxxi4 #ab4 ,then spake ,joshua to the ,lord in the day when the ,lord delivered up the ,amorites before the children of ,israel1 and he said in the sight of ,israel1 ,sun1 stand thou still upon ,gibeon1 and thou1 ,moon1 in the valley of ,ajalon4 #ac4 ,and the sun stood still1 and the moon stayed1 until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies4 ,is not this written in the book of ,jasher8 ,so the sun stood still in the midst of heaven2 and hasted not to go down about a whole day4 #ad4 ,and there was no day like that before it or after it1 that the ,lord hearkened unto the voice of a man3 for the ,lord fought for ,israel4--,josh4 x4 ,these passages must certainly convey the idea that this world was made in six days1 not six periods4 ,and the reason why they were to keep the ,sabbath was because the ,creator rested on the seventh day--not period4 ,if you say six periods1 instead of six days1 what becomes of your ,sabbath8 ,the only reason given in the ,bible for observing the ,sabbath is that ,god observed it--that he rested from his work that day and was refreshed4 ,take this reason away and the sacredness of that day has no foundation in the ,scriptures4 ,,what ,,is ,,the ,,astronomy ,,of ,,the ,,bible8 ,,iv4 ,,when people were ignorant of all the sciences the ,bible was understood by those who read it the same as by those who wrote it4 ,from time to time discoveries were made that seemed inconsistent with the ,scriptures4 ,at first1 theologians denounced the discoverers of all facts inconsistent with the ,bible1 as atheists and scoffers4 ,the ,bible teaches us that the earth is the centre of the universe2 that the sun and moon and stars revolve around this speck called the earth4 ,the men who discovered that all this was a mistake were denounced by the ignorant clergy of that day1 precisely as the ignorant clergy of our time denounce the advocates of free thought4 ,when the doctrine of the earth's place in the solar system was demonstrated2 when persecution could no longer conceal the mighty truth1 then it was that the church made an effort to harmonize the ,scriptures with the discoveries of science4 ,when the utter absurdity of the ,mosaic account of creation became apparent to all thoughtful men1 the church changed the reading of the ,bible4 ,then it was pretended that the days of creation were vast periods of time4 ,when it was shown to be utterly impossible that the sun revolved around the earth1 then the account given by ,joshua of the sun standing still for the space of a whole day1 was changed into a figure of speech4 ,it was said that ,joshua merely conformed to the mode of speech common in his day2 and that when he said the sun stood still1 he merely intended to convey the idea that the earth ceased turning upon its axis4 ,they admitted that stopping the sun could not lengthen the day1 and for that reason it must have been the earth that stopped4 ,but you will remember that the moon stood still in the valley of ,ajalon--that the moon stayed until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies4 ,one would naturally suppose that the sun would have given sufficient light to enable the ,jews to avenge themselves upon their enemies without any assistance from the moon4 ,of course1 if the moon had not stopped1 the relations between the earth and moon would have been changed4 ,is there a sensible man in the world who believes this wretched piece of ignorance8 ,is it possible that the religion of this nineteenth century has for its basis such childish absurdities8 ,according to this account1 what was the sun1 or rather the earth1 stopped for8 ,it was stopped in order that the ,hebrews might avenge themselves upon the ,amorites4 ,for the accomplishment of such a purpose the earth was made to pause4 ,why should an almost infinite force be expended simply for the purpose of destroying a handful of men8 ,why this waste of force8 ,let me explain4 ,i strike my hands together4 ,they feel a sudden ,heat4 ,where did the heat come from8 ,motion has been changed into heat4 ,you will remember that there can be no destruction of force4 ,it disappears in one form only to reappear in another4 ,the earth1 rotating at the rate of one thousand miles an hour1 was stopped4 ,the motion of this vast globe would have instantly been changed into heat4 ,it has been calculated by one of the greatest scientists of the present day that to stop the earth would generate as much heat as could be produced by burning a world as large as this of solid coal4 ,and yet1 all this force was expended for the paltry purpose of defeating a few poor barbarians4 ,the employment of so much force for the accomplishment of so insignificant an object would be as useless as bringing all the intellect of a great man to bear in answering the arguments of the clergymen of ,san ,francisco4 ,the waste of that immense force in stopping the planets in their grand courses1 for the purpose claimed1 would be like using a ,krupp gun to destroy an insect to which a single drop of water is an unbounded world4 ,how is it possible for men of ordinary intellect1 not only to endorse such ignorant falsehoods1 but to malign those who do not8 ,can anything be more debasing to the intellect of man than a belief in the astronomy of the ,bible8 ,according to the ,scriptures1 the world was made out of nothing1 and the sun1 moon1 and stars1 of the nothing that happened to be left4 ,to the writers of the ,bible the firmament was solid1 and in it were grooves along which the stars were pushed by angels4 ,from the ,bible ,cosmas constructed his geography and astronomy4 ,his book was passed upon by the church1 and was declared to be the truth concerning the subjects upon which he treated4 ,this eminent geologist and astronomer1 taking the ,bible as his guide1 found and taught3 ,first1 that the earth was flat2 second1 that it was a vast parallelogram2 third1 that in the middle there was a vast body of land1 then a strip of water all around it1 then a strip of land4 ,he thought that on the outer strip of land people lived before the flood--that at the time of the flood1 ,noah in his ,ark crossed the strip of water and landed on the shore of the country1 in the middle of the world1 where we now are4 ,this great biblical scholar informed the true believers of his day that in the outer strip of land were mountains1 around which the sun and moon revolved2 that when the sun was on the side of the mountain next the land occupied by man1 it was day1 and when on the other side1 it was night4 ,mr4 ,cosmas believed the ,bible1 and regarded ,joshua as the most eminent astronomer of his day4 ,he also taught that the firmament was solid1 and that the angels pushed and drew the stars4 ,he tells us that these angels attended strictly to their business1 that each one watched the motions of all the others so that proper distances might always be maintained1 and all confusion avoided4 ,all this was believed by the gentlemen who made most of our religion4 ,the great argument made by ,cosmas to show that the earth must be flat1 was the fact that the ,bible stated that when ,christ should come the second time1 in glory1 the whole world should see him4 ,now1 said ,cosmas1 if the world is round1 how could the people on the other side see the ,lord when he comes8 ,this settled the question4 ,these were the ideas of the fathers of the church4 ,these men have been for centuries regarded as almost divinely inspired4 ,long after they had become dust they governed the world4 ,the superstitions they planted1 their descendants watered with the best and bravest blood4 ,to maintain their ignorant theories1 the brain of the world was dwarfed for a thousand years1 and the infamous work is still being prosecuted4 ,the ,bible was regarded as not only true1 but as the best of all truth4 ,any new theory advanced1 was immediately examined in the light1 or rather in the darkness1 of revelation1 and if according to that test it was false1 it was denounced1 and the person bringing it forward forced to recant4 ,it would have been a far better course to have discovered every theory found to be in harmony with the ,scriptures4 ,and yet we are told by the clergy and religious press of this city1 that the ,bible is the foundation of all science4 ,,does ,,the ,,bible ,,teach ,,the ,,existence ,,of ,,that ,,impossible ,,crime ,,called ,,witchcraft8 ,v4 ,,it was said by ,sir ,thomas ,more that to give up witchcraft was to give up the ,bible itself4 ,this idea was entertained by nearly all the eminent theologians of a hundred years ago4 ,in my judgment1 they were right4 ,to give up witchcraft is to give up1 in a great degree at least1 the supernatural4 ,to throw away the little ghosts simply prepares the mind of man to give up the great ones4 ,the founders of nearly all creeds1 and of all religions properly so called1 have taught the existence of good and evil spirits4 ,they have peopled the dark with devils and the light with angels4 ,they have crowded hell with demons and heaven with seraphs4 ,the moment these good and evil spirits1 these angels and fiends1 disappear from the imaginations of men1 and phenomena are accounted for by natural rather than by supernatural means1 a great step has been taken in the direction of what is now known as materialism4 ,while the church believes in witchcraft1 it is in a greatly modified form4 ,the evil spirits are not as plenty as in former times1 and more phenomena are accounted for by natural means4 ,just to the extent that belief has been lost in spirits1 just to that extent the church has lost its power and authority4 ,when men ceased to account for the happening of any event by ascribing it to the direct action of good or evil spirits1 and began to reason from known premises1 the chains of superstition began to grow weak4 ,into such disrepute has witchcraft at last fallen that many ,christians not only deny the existence of these evil spirits1 but take the ground that no such thing is taught in the ,scriptures4 ,let us see3 ,thou shalt not suffer a witch to live4--,exodus xxii41 #ah4 #g4 ,then said ,saul unto his servants1 ,seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit1 that ,i may go to her1 and enquire of her4 ,and his servants said to him1 ,behold1 there is a woman that hath a spirit at ,endor4 #h4 ,and ,saul disguised himself1 and put on other raiment1 and he went1 and two men with him1 and they came to the woman by night2 and he said1 ,i pray thee1 divine unto me by the familiar spirit1 and bring me him up1 whom ,i shall name unto thee4 #i4 ,and the woman said unto him1 ,behold1 thou knowest what ,saul hath done1 how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits1 and the wizards out of the land2 wherefore1 then1 layest thou a snare for my life1 to cause me to die8 #aj4 ,and ,saul sware to her by the ,lord1 saying1 ,as the ,lord liveth1 there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing4 #aa4 ,then said the woman1 ,whom shall ,i bring up unto thee8 ,and he said1 ,bring me up ,samuel4 #ab4 ,and when the woman saw ,samuel she cried with a loud voice3 and the woman spake to ,saul1 saying1 ,why hast thou deceived me8 for thou art ,saul4 #ac4 ,and the king said unto her1 ,be not afraid3 for what sawest thou8 ,and the woman said unto ,saul1 ,i saw gods ascending out of the earth4 #ad4 ,and he said unto her1 ,what form is he of8 ,and she said1 ,an old man cometh up2 and he is covered with a mantle4 ,and ,saul perceived that it was ,samuel1 and he stooped with his face to the ground1 and bowed himself4 #ae4 ,and ,samuel said to ,saul1 ,why hast thou disquieted me to bring me up8--#b ,samuels xxviii4 ,this reads very much like an account of a modern spiritual seance4 ,is it not one of the wonderful things of the world that men and women who believe this account of the witch of ,endor1 who believe all the miracles and all the ghost stories of the ,bible1 deny with all their force the truth of modern ,spiritualism4 ,so far as ,i am concerned1 ,i would rather believe some one who has heard what he relates1 who has seen what he tells1 or at least thinks he has seen what he tells4 ,i would rather believe somebody ,i know1 whose reputation for truth is good among those who know him4 ,i would rather believe these people than to take the words of those who have been in their graves for four thousand years1 and about whom ,i know nothing4 #ca ,regard not them that have familiar spirits1 neither seek after wizards1 to be defiled by them2 ,i am the ,lord1 your ,god4--,leviticus xix4 #f ,and the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits1 and after wizards1 ,i will even set my face against that soul1 and will cut him off from among his people4--,leviticus xx4 #aj4 ,there shall not be found among you any one that useth divination1 or an observer of times1 or an enchanter1 or a witch1 #aa4 ,or a charmer1 or a consulter with familiar spirits1 or a wizard1 or a necromancer4 #ab4 ,for all that do these things are an abomination unto the ,lord4--,deut4 xviii4 ,i have given you a few of the passages found in the ,old ,testament upon this subject1 showing conclusively that the ,bible teaches the existence of witches1 wizards and those who have familiar spirits4 ,in the ,new ,testament there are passages equally strong1 showing that the ,savior himself was a believer in the existence of evil spirits1 and in the existence of a personal devil4 ,nothing can be plainer than the teaching of the following3 #a4 ,then was ,jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil4 #b4 ,and when he had fasted forty days and forty nights1 he was afterward an hungered4 #c4 ,and when the tempter came to him1 he said1 ,if thou be the ,son of ,god1 command that these stones be made bread4 #d4 ,but he answered and said1 ,it is written1 ,man shall not live by bread alone1 but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of ,god4 #e4 ,then the devil taketh him up into the holy city1 and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple4 #f4 ,and saith unto him1 ,if thou be the ,son of ,god1 cast thyself down3 for it is written1 ,he shall give his angels charge concerning thee3 and in their hands they shall bear thee up1 lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone4 #g4 ,jesus said unto him1 ,it is written again1 ,thou shalt not tempt the ,lord1 thy ,god4 #h4 ,again1 the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain1 and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world1 and the glory of them4 #i4 ,and saith unto him1 ,all these things will ,i give thee1 if thou wilt fall down and worship me4 #aj4 ,then saith ,jesus unto him1 ,get thee hence1 ,satan3 for it is written1 ,thou shalt worship the ,lord thy ,god1 and him only shalt thou serve4 #aa4 ,then the devil leaveth him1 and1 behold1 angels came and ministered unto him4--,matt4 iv4 ,if this does not teach the existence of a personal devil1 there is nothing within the lids of the ,scriptures teaching the existence of a personal ,god4 ,if this does not teach the existence of evil spirits1 there is nothing in the ,bible going to show that good spirits exist either in this world or the next4 #af4 ,when the even was come they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils3 and he cast out the spirits with his word1 and healed all that were sick4--,matt4 vii4 #a4 ,and they came over unto the other side of the sea1 into the country of the ,gadarenes4 #b4 ,and when he was come out of the ship1 immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit1 #c4 ,who had his dwelling among the tombs2 and no man could bind him1 no1 not with chains3 #d4 ,because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains1 and the chains had been plucked asunder by him1 and the fetters broken in pieces3 neither could any man tame him4 #e4 ,and always1 night and day1 he was in the mountains1 and in the tombs1 crying and cutting himself with stones4 #f4 ,but when he saw ,jesus afar off1 he ran and worshipped him1 #g4 ,and cried with a loud voice1 and said1 ,what have ,i to do with thee1 ,jesus1 thou son of the most high ,god8 ,i adjure thee by ,god1 that thou torment me not4 #h4 ,for he said unto him1 ,come out of the man1 thou unclean spirit4 #i4 ,and he asked him1 ,what is thy name8 ,and he answered1 saying1 ,my name is ,legion1 for we are many4 #aa4 ,now1 there was nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding4 #ab4 ,and all the devils besought him1 saying1 ,send us into the swine1 that we may enter into them4 #ac4 ,and forthwith ,jesus gave them leave4 ,and the unclean spirits went out1 and entered into the swine2 and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea1 and they were about two thousand2 and were choked in the sea4--,mark v4 ,the doctrine of witchcraft does not stop here4 ,the power of casting out devils was bequeathed by the ,savior to his apostles and followers1 and to all who might believe in him throughout all the coming time3 #ag4 ,and these signs shall follow them that believe3 ,in my name shall they cast out devils2 they shall speak with new tongues4 #ah4 ,and they shall take up serpents2 and if they drink any deadly thing1 it shall not hurt them2 they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover4--,mark xvi4 ,i would like to see the clergy who have been answering me1 tested in this way3 ,let them drink poison1 let them take up serpents1 let them cure the sick by the laying on of hands1 and ,i will then believe that they believe4 ,i deny the witchcraft stories of the world4 ,witches are born in the ignorant1 frightened minds of men4 ,reason will exorcise them4 ,they are tales told by an idiot1 full of sound and fury1 signifying nothing4 ,these devils have covered the world with blood and tears4 ,they have filled the earth with fear4 ,they have filled the lives of children with darkness and horror4 ,they have peopled the sweet world of imagination with monsters4 ,they have made religion a strange mingling of fear and ferocity4 ,i am doing what ,i can to reave the heavens of these monsters4 ,for my part1 ,i laugh at them all4 ,i hold them all in contempt1 ancient and modern1 great and small4 ,,the ,,bible ,,idea ,,of ,,the ,,rights ,,of ,,children4 ,,vi4 ,,all religion has for its basis the tyranny of ,god and the slavery of man4 #ah4 ,if a man have a stubborn and rebellious son1 which will not obey the voice of his father1 or the voice of his mother1 and that1 when they have chastened him1 will not hearken unto them4 #ai4 ,then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him1 and bring him out unto the elders of his city1 and unto1 the gate of his place4 #bj4 ,and they shall say unto the elders of his city1 ,this our son is stubborn and rebellious1 he will not obey our voice1 he is a glutton and a drunkard4 #ba4 ,and all the men of his city shall stone him with stones1 that he die2 so shalt thou put evil away from among you2 and all ,israel shall hear1 and fear4--,deut4 xxi4 ,abraham was commanded to offer his son ,isaac as a sacrifice4 ,he proceeded to obey4 ,and the boy1 being then about thirty years of age1 was not consulted4 ,at the command of a phantom of the air1 a man was willing to offer upon the altar his only son4 ,and such was the slavery of children1 that the only son had not the spirit to resist4 ,have you ever read the story of ,jephthah8 #cj ,and ,jephthah vowed a vow unto the ,lord1 and said1 ,if thou shalt without fail deliver the children of ,ammon into mine hands1 #ca4 ,then it shall be1 that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me1 when ,i return in peace from the children of ,ammon1 shall surely be the ,lord's1 and ,i will offer it up for a burnt offering4 #cb4 ,so ,jephthah passed over unto the children of ,ammon to fight against them2 and the ,lord delivered them into his hands4 #cc4 ,and he smote them from ,aroer1 even till thou come to ,minnith1 even twenty cities1 and unto the plain of the vineyards1 with a very great slaughter4 ,thus the children of ,ammon were subdued before the children of ,israel4 #cd4;,and ,jephthah came to ,mizpeh unto his house1 and behold1 his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances2 and she was his only child2 beside her he had neither son nor daughter4 #ce4 ,and it came to pass1 when he saw her1 that he rent his clothes1 and said1 ,alas1 my daughter6 thou hast brought me very low1 and thou art one of them that trouble me3 for ,i have opened my mouth unto the ,lord1 and ,i cannot go back4444 #ci4 ,and it came to pass at the end of two months1 that she returned unto her father1 who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed4--,judges xi4 ,is there in the history of the world a sadder thing than this8 ,what can we think of a father who would sacrifice his daughter to a demon ,god8 ,and what can we think of a ,god who would accept such a sacrifice8 ,can such a ,god be worthy of the worship of man8 ,i plead for the rights of children4 ,i plead for the government of kindness and love4 ,i plead for the republic of home1 the democracy of the fireside4 ,i plead for affection4 ,and for this ,i am pursued by invective4 ,for this ,i am called a fiend1 a devil1 a monster1 by ,christian editors and clergymen1 by those who pretend to love their enemies and pray for those that despitefully use them4 ,allow me to give you another instance of affection related in the ,scriptures4 ,there was1 it seems1 a most excellent man by the name of ,job4 ,the ,lord was walking up and down1 and happening to meet ,satan1 said to him3 ,are you acquainted with my servant ,job8 ,have you noticed what an excellent man he is8 ,and ,satan replied to him and said3 ,why should he not be an excellent man--you have given him everything he wants8 ,take from him what he has and he will curse you4 ,and thereupon the ,lord gave ,satan the power to destroy the property and children of ,job4 ,in a little while these high contracting parties met again2 and the ,lord seemed somewhat elated with his success1 and called again the attention of ,satan to the sinlessness of ,job4 ,satan then told him to touch his body and he would curse him4 ,and thereupon power was given to ,satan over the body of ,job1 and he covered his body with boils4 ,yet in all this1 ,job did not sin with his lips4 ,this book seems to have been written to show the excellence of patience1 and to prove that at last ,god will reward all who will bear the afflictions of heaven with fortitude and without complaint4 ,the sons and daughters of ,job had been slain1 and then the ,lord1 in order to reward ,job1 gave him other children1 other sons and other daughters--not the same ones he had lost2 but others4 ,and this1 according to the writer1 made ample amends4 ,is that the idea we now have of love8 ,if ,i have a child1 no matter how deformed that child may be1 and if it dies1 nobody can make the loss to me good by bringing a more beautiful child4 ,i want the one ,i loved and the one ,i lost4 ,,the ,,gallantry ,,of ,,god4 ,,vii4 ,i ,,have said that the ,bible is a barbarous book2 that it has no respect for the rights of woman4 ,now ,i propose to prove it4 ,it takes something besides epithets and invectives to prove or disprove anything4 ,let us see what the sacred volume says concerning the mothers and daughters of the human race4 ,a man who does not in his heart of hearts respect woman1 who has not there an altar at which he worships the memory of mother1 is less than a man4 #aa4 ,let the woman learn in silence with all subjection4 #ab4 ,but ,i suffer not a woman to teach1 nor to usurp authority over the man1 but to be in silence4 ,the reason given for this1 and the only reason that occurred to the sacred writer1 was3 #ac4 ,for ,adam was first formed1 then ,eve4 #ad4 ,and ,adam was not deceived1 but the woman being deceived was in the transgression4 #ae4 ,notwithstanding1 she shall be saved in child-bearing1 if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety4--#a ,tim4 ii4 #c4 ,but ,i would have you know1 that the head of every man is ,christ2 and the head of the woman is the man2 and the head of ,christ is ,god4 ,that is to say1 the woman sustains the same relation to the man that man does to ,christ1 and man sustains the same relation to ,christ that ,christ does to ,god4 ,this places the woman infinitely below the man4 ,and yet this barbarous idiocy is regarded as divinely inspired4 ,how can any woman look other than with contempt upon such passages8 ,how can any woman believe that this is the will of a most merciful ,god8 #g4 ,for a man1 indeed1 ought not to cover his head1 forasmuch as he is the image and glory of ,god2 but the woman is the glory of man4 ,and this is justified from the remarkable fact set forth in the next verse3 #h4 ,for the man is not of the woman2 but the woman of the man4 ,this same chivalric gentleman also says3 #i4 ,neither was the man created for the woman2 but the woman for the man4--#a ,cor4 xi4 #bb4 ,wives1 submit yourselves unto your own husbands1 as unto the ,lord4 ,is it possible for abject obedience to go beyond this8 #bc4 ,for the husband is the head of the wife1 even as ,christ is the head of the ,church1 and he is the saviour of the body4 #bd4 ,therefore1 as the ,church is subject unto ,christ1 so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything4--,eph4 v4 ,even the ,savior did not put man and woman upon an equality4 ,a man could divorce his wife1 but the wife could not divorce her husband4 ,every noble woman should hold such apostles and such ideas in contempt4 ,according to the ,old ,testament1 woman had to ask pardon and had to be purified from the crime of having born sons and daughters4 ,to make love and maternity crimes is infamous4 #aj4 ,when thou goest forth to war against thine enemies1 and the ,lord thy ,god hath delivered them into thine hands1 and thou hast taken them captive1 #aa4 ,and seest among the captives a beautiful woman1 and hast a desire unto her1 that thou wouldest have her to thy wife1 #ab4 ,then thou shalt bring her home to thy house2 and she shall shave her head1 and pare her nails4--,deut4 xxi4 ,this is barbarism1 no matter whether it came from heaven or from hell1 from a ,god or from a devil1 from the golden streets of the ,new ,jerusalem or from the very ,sodom of perdition4 ,it is barbarism complete and utter4 ,,does ,,the ,,bible ,,sanction ,,polygamy ,,and ,,concubinage8 ,,viii4 ,,read the infamous order of ,moses in the #cast chapter of ,numbers--an order unfit to be reproduced in print--an order which ,i am unwilling to repeat4 ,read the #ca st chapter of ,exodus4 ,read the #ba st chapter of ,deuteronomy4 ,read the-life of ,abraham1 of ,david1 of ,solomon1 of ,jacob1 and then tell me the sacred ,bible does not teach polygamy and concubinage4 ,all the languages of the world are insufficient to express the filth of polygamy4 ,it makes man a beast--woman a slave4 ,it destroys the fireside4 ,it makes virtue an outcast4 ,it makes home a lair of wild beasts4 ,it is the infamy of infamies4 ,yet this is the doctrine of the ,bible--a doctrine defended even by ,luther and ,melancthon4 ,it is by the ,bible that ,brigham ,young justifies the practice of this beastly horror4 ,it takes from language those sweetest words1 husband1 wife1 father mother1 child and lover4 ,it takes us back to the barbarism of animals1 and leaves the heart a den in which crawl and hiss the slimy serpents of loathsome lust4 ,yet the book justifying this infamy is the book upon which rests the civilization of the nineteenth century4 ,and because ,i denounce this frightful thing1 the clergy denounce me as a demon1 and the infamous ,christian ,advocate says that the moral sentiment of this ,state ought to denounce this ,illinois ,catiline for his blasphemous utterances and for his base and debasing scurrility4 ,,does ,,the ,,bible ,,uphold ,,and ,,justify ,,political ,,tyranny8 ,,ix4 ,,for my part1 ,i insist that man has not only the capacity1 but the right to govern himself4 ,all political authority is vested in the people themselves1 ,they have the right to select their officers and agents1 and these officers and agents are responsible to the people4 ,political authority does not come from the clouds4 ,man should not be governed by the aristocracy of the air4 ,the ,bible is not a ,republican or ,democratic book4 ,exactly the opposite doctrine is taught4 ,from that volume we learn that the people have no power whatever2 that all power and political authority comes from on high1 and that all the kings1 all the potentates and powers1 have been ordained of ,god2 that all the ignorant and cruel kings have been placed upon the world's thrones by the direct act of ,deity4 ,the ,scriptures teach us that the common people have but one duty--the duty of obedience4 ,let me read to you some of the political ideas in the great ,magna ,charta of human liberty4 #a4 ,let every soul be subject unto the higher powers4 ,for there is no power but of ,god2 the powers that be are ordained of ,god4 #b4 ,whosoever1 therefore1 resisteth the power1 resisteth the ordinance of ,god3 and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation4 ,according to this1 ,george ,,iii4 was ordained of ,god4 ,he was ,king of ,great ,britian by divine right1 and by divine right was the lawful ,king of the ,american ,colonies4 ,the leaders in the ,revolutionary struggle resisted the power1 and according to these passages1 resisted the ordinances of ,god2 and for that resistance they are promised the eternal recompense of damnation4 #c4 ,for rulers are not a terror to good works1 but to the evil4 ,wilt thou then not be afraid of the power8 do that which is good1 and thou shalt have praise of the same4444 #e4 ,wherefore1 ye must needs be subject1 not only for wrath1 but also for conscience sake4 #f4 ,for1 for this cause pay ye tribute also2 for they are ,god's ministers1 attending continually upon this very thing4--,romans1 xiii4 #ac4 ,submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the ,lord's sake2 whether it be to the king as supreme4 #ad4 ,or unto governors1 as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evil-doers1 and for the praise of them that do well4 #ae4 ,for so is the will of ,god4--#a ,pet4 ii4 ,had these ideas been carried out1 political progress in the world would have been impossible4 ,upon the necks of the people still would have been the feet of kings4 ,i deny this wretched1 this infamous doctrine4 ,whether higher powers are ordained of ,god or not1 if those higher powers endeavor to destroy the rights of man1 ,i for one shall resist4 ,whenever and wherever the sword of rebellion is drawn in support of a human right1 ,i am a rebel4 ,the despicable doctrine of submission to titled wrong and robed injustice finds no lodgment in the brain of a man4 ,the real rulers are the people1 and the rulers so-called are but the servants of the people4 ,they are not ordained of any ,god4 ,all political power comes from and belongs to man4 ,upon these texts of ,scripture rest the thrones of ,europe4 ,for fifteen hundred years these verses have been repeated by brainless kings and heardess priests4 ,for fifteen hundred years each one of these texts has been a bastile in which has been imprisoned the pioneers of progress4 ,each one of these texts has been an obstruction on the highway of humanity4 ,each one has been a fortification behind which have crouched the sainted hypocrites and the titled robbers4 ,according to these texts1 a robber gets his right to rob from ,god4 ,and it is the duty of the robbed to submit4 ,the thief gets his right to steal from ,god4 ,the king gets his right to trample upon human liberty from ,god4 ,i say1 fight the king--fight the priest4 ,,the ,,religious ,,liberty ,,of ,,god4 ,x4 ,,the ,bible denounces religious liberty4 ,after covering the world with blood1 after having made it almost hollow with graves1 ,christians are beginning to say that men have a right to differ upon religious questions provided the questions about which they differ are not considered of great importance4 ,the motto of the ,evangelical ,alliance is3 ,in non-essentials1 ,liberty2 in essentials1 ,unity4 ,the ,christian world have condescended to say that upon all non-essential points we shall have the right to think for ourselves2 but upon matters of the least importance1 they will think and speak for us4 ,in this they are consistent4 ,they but follow the teachings of the ,god they worship4 ,they but adhere to the precepts and commands of the sacred ,scriptures4 ,within that volume there is no such thing as religious toleration4 ,within that volume there is not one particle of mercy for an unbeliever4 ,for all who think for themselves1 for all who are the owners of their own souls1 there are threatenings1 curses and anathemas4 ,any ,christian who to-day exercises the least toleration is to that extent false to his religion4 ,let us see what the ,magna ,charta of liberty says upon this subject3 #f4 ,if thy brother1 the son of thy mother1 or thy son1 or thy daughter1 or the wife of thy bosom1 or thy friend1 which is as thine own soul1 entice thee secretly1 saying1 ,let us go and serve other gods1 which thou hast not known1 thou1 nor thy fathers4 #g4 ,namely of the gods of the people which are round about you1 nigh unto thee1 or afar off from thee1 from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth4 #h4 ,thou shalt not consent unto him2 nor hearken unto him2 neither shall thine eye pity him2 neither shalt thou spare1 neither shalt thou conceal him4 #i4 ,but thou shalt surely kill him2 thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death1 and afterwards the hand of all the people4 #aj4 ,and thou shalt stone him with stones1 that he die2 because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the ,lord thy ,god1 which brought thee out of the land of ,egypt1 from the house of bondage4--,deut4 xiii4 ,that is the religious liberty of the ,bible4 ,if the wife of your bosom had said1 ,i like the religion of ,india better than the religion of ,palestine1 it was then your duty to kill her1 and the merciful ,most ,high--understand me1 ,i do not believe in any merciful ,most ,high--said3 ,thou shalt not pity her but thou shalt surely kill2 thy hand shall be the first upon her to put her to death4 ,this ,i denounce as infamously infamous4 ,if it is necessary to believe in such a ,god1 if it is necessary to adore such a ,deity in order to be saved1 ,i will take my part joyfully in perdition4 ,let me read you a few more extracts from the ,magna ,charta of human liberty4 #b4 ,if there be found among you1 within any of thy gates which the ,lord thy ,god giveth thee1 man or woman that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the ,lord thy ,god1 in transgressing his covenant1 #c4 ,and hath gone and served other gods1 and worshipped them1 either the sun1 or moon1 or any of the host of heaven1 which ,i have not commanded4 #d4 ,and it be told thee1 and thou hast heard of it1 and enquired diligently1 and behold1 it be true1 and the thing certain1 that such abomination is wrought in ,israel4 #e4 ,then shalt thou bring forth that man1 or that woman1 which have committed that wicked thing1 unto thy gates1 even that man or that woman1 and shalt stone them with stones till they die4 ,under this law if the woman you loved had said3 ,let us worship the sun2 ,i am tired of this jealous and bloodthirsty ,jehovah2 let us worship the sun2 let us kneel to it as it rises over the hills1 filling the world with light and love1 when the dawn stands jocund on the mountain's misty top2 it is the sun whose beams illumine and cover the earth with verdure and with beauty2 it is the sun that covers the trees with leaves1 that carpets the earth with grass and adorns the world with flowers2 ,i adore the sun because in its light ,i have seen your eyes2 it has given to me the face of my babe2 it has clothed my life with joy2 let us in gratitude fall down and worship the glorious beams of the sun4 ,for this offence she deserved not only death1 but death at your hands3 ,thine eye shall not pity her2 neither shalt thou spare2 neither shalt thou conceal her4 ,but thou shalt surely kill her3 thy hand shall be the first upon her to put her to death1 and afterwards the hand of all the people4 ,and thou shalt stone her with stones that she die4 ,for my part ,i had a thousand times rather worship the sun than a ,god who would make such a law or give such a command4 ,this you may say is the doctrine of the ,old ,testament--what is the doctrine of the ,new8 ,he that believes and is baptized shall be saved2 and he that believeth not shall be damned4 ,that is the religious liberty of the ,new ,testament4 ,that is the tidings of great joy4 ,every one of these words has been a chain upon the limbs1 a whip upon the backs of men4 ,every one has been a fagot4 ,every one has been a sword4 ,every one has been a dungeon1 a scaffold1 a rack4 ,every one has been a fountain of tears4 ,these words have filled the hearts of men with hatred4 ,these words invented all the instruments of torture4 ,these words covered the earth with blood4 ,for the sake of argument1 suppose that the ,bible is an inspired book4 ,if then1 as is contended1 ,god gave these frightful laws commanding religious intolerance to his chosen people1 and afterward this same ,god took upon himself flesh1 and came among the ,jews and taught a different religion1 and they crucified him1 did he not reap what he had sown8 ,,does ,,the ,,bible ,,describe ,a ,,god ,,of ,,mercy8 ,,xi4 ,,is it possible to conceive of a more jealous1 revengeful1 changeable1 unjust1 unreasonable1 cruel being than the ,jehovah of the ,hebrews8 ,is it possible to read the words said to have been spoken by this ,deity1 without a shudder8 ,is it possible to contemplate his character without hatred8 ,i will make mine arrows drunk with blood and my sword shall devour flesh4--,deut4 xxxii4 ,is this the language of an infinitely kind and tender parent to his weak1 his wandering and suffering children8 ,thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies1 and the tongue of thy dogs in the same4 ,psalms1 lxviii4 ,is it possible that a ,god takes delight in seeing dogs lap the blood of his children8 #bb4 ,and the ,lord thy ,god will put out those nations before thee by little and little2 thou mayest not consume them at once1 lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee4 #bc4 ,but the ,lord thy ,god shall deliver them unto thee1 and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction1 until they be destroyed4 #bd4 ,and he shall deliver their kings into thine hand1 and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven2 there shall no man be able to stand before thee1 until thou have destroyed them4--,deut4 vii4 ,if these words had proceeded from the mouth of a demon1 if they had been spoken by some enraged and infinitely malicious fiend1 ,i should not have been surprised4 ,but these things are attributed to a ,god of infinite mercy4 #dj4 ,so ,joshua smote all the country of the hills1 and of the south1 and of the vale1 and of the springs1 and all their kings2 he left none remaining1 but utterly destroyed all that breathed1 as the ,lord ,god of ,israel commanded4--,josh1 x4 #ad4 ,and all the spoil of these cities1 and the cattle1 the children of ,israel took for a prey unto themselves2 but every man they smote with the edge of the sword until they had destroyed them1 neither left they any to breathe4--,josh4 xi4 #ai4 ,there was not a city that made peace with the children of ,israel1 save the ,hivites1 the inhabitants of ,gibeon2 all other they took in battle4 #bj4 ,for it was of the ,lord to harden their hearts that they should come against ,israel in battle1 that he might destroy them utterly1 and that they might have no favor1 but that he might destroy them1 as the ,lord commanded ,moses4--,josh4 xi4 ,there are no words in our language with which to express the indignation ,i feel when reading these cruel and heartless words4 ,when thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it1 then proclaim peace unto it4 ,and it shall be if it make thee answer of peace1 and open unto thee1 then it shall be that all the people therein shall be tributaries unto thee1 and they shall serve thee4 ,and if it will make no peace with thee1 but will make war against thee1 then thou shalt besiege it4 ,and when the ,lord thy ,god hath delivered it into thy hands1 thou shalt smite every male thereof with the sword4 ,but the women1 and the little ones1 and the cattle1 and all that is in the city1 even the spoil thereof1 shalt thou take unto thyself1 and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies1 which the ,lord thy ,god hath given thee4 ,thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee1 which are not of the cities of these nations4 ,but of the cities of these people which the ,lord thy ,god doth give thee for an inheritance1 thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth4 ,these terrible instructions were given to an army of invasion4 ,the men who were thus ruthlessly murdered were fighting for their homes1 their firesides1 for their wives and for their little children4 ,yet these things1 by the clergy of ,san ,francisco1 are called acts of sublime mercy4 ,all this is justified by the doctrine of the survival of the fittest4 ,the ,old ,testament is filled with anathemas1 with curses1 with words of vengeance1 of revenge1 of jealousy1 of hatred and of almost infinite brutality4 ,do not1 ,i pray you1 pluck from the heart the sweet flower of pity and trample it in the bloody dust of superstition4 ,do not1 ,i beseech you1 justify the murder of women1 the assassination of dimpled babes4 ,do not let the gaze of the gorgon of superstition turn your hearts to stone4 ,is there an intelligent ,christian in the world who would not with joy and gladness receive conclusive testimony to the effect that all the passages in the ,bible upholding and sustaining polygamy and concubinage1 political tyranny1 the subjection of woman1 the enslavement of children1 establishing domestic and political tyranny1 and that all the commands to destroy men1 women and children1 are but interpolations of kings and priests1 made for the purpose of subjugating mankind through the instrumentality of fear8 ,is there a ,christian in the world who would not think vastly more of the ,bible if all these infamous things were eliminated from it8 ,surely the good things in that book are not rendered more sacred from the fact that in the same volume are found the frightful passages ,i have quoted4 ,in my judgment the ,bible should be read and studied precisely as we read and study any book whatever4 ,the good in it should be preserved and cherished1 and that which shocks the human heart should be cast aside forever4 ,while the ,old ,testament threatens men1 women and children with disease1 famine1 war1 pestilence and death1 there are no threatenings of punishment beyond this life4 ,the doctrine of eternal punishment is a dogma of the ,new ,testament4 ,this doctrine1 the most cruel1 the most infamous of which the human mind can conceive1 is taught1 if taught at all1 in the ,bible--in the ,new ,testament4 ,one cannot imagine what the human heart has suffered by reason of the frightful doctrine of eternal damnation4 ,it is a doctrine so abhorrent to every drop of my blood1 so infinitely cruel1 that it is impossible for me to respect either the head or heart of any human being who teaches or fears it4 ,this doctrine necessarily subverts all ideas of justice4 ,to inflict infinite punishment for finite crimes1 or rather for crimes committed by finite beings1 is a proposition so monstrous that ,i am astonished it ever found lodgment in the brain of man4 ,whoever says that we can be happy in heaven while those we loved on earth are suffering infinite torments in eternal fire1 defames and calumniates the human heart4 ,,the ,,plan ,,of ,,salvation4 ,,xii4 ,,we are told1 however1 that a way has been provided for the salvation of all men1 and that in this plan the infinite mercy of ,god is made manifest to the children of men4 ,according to the great scheme of the atonement1 the innocent suffers for the guilty in order to satisfy a law4 ,what kind of law must it be that is satisfied with the agony of innocence8 ,who made this law8 ,if ,god made it he must have known that the innocent would have to suffer as a consequence4 ,the whole scheme is to me a medley of contradictions1 impossibilities and theological conclusions4 ,we are told that if ,adam and ,eve had not sinned in the ,garden of ,eden death never would have entered the world4 ,we are further informed that had it not been for the devil1 ,adam and ,eve would not have been led astray2 and if they had not1 as ,i said before1 death never would have touched with its icy hand the human heart4 ,if our first parents had never sinned1 and death never had entered the world1 you and ,i never would have existed4 ,the earth would have been filled thousands of generations before you and ,i were born4 ,at the feast of life1 death made seats vacant for us4 ,according to this doctrine1 we are indebted to the devil for our existence4 ,had he not tempted ,eve--no sin4 ,if there had been no sin--no death4 ,if there had been no death the world would have been filled ages before you and ,i were born4 ,therefore1 we owe our existence to the devil4 ,we are further informed that as a consequence of original sin the scheme called the atonement became necessary2 and that if the ,savior had not taken upon himself flesh and come to this atom called the earth1 and if he had not been crucified for us1 we should all have been cast forever into hell4 ,had it not been for the bigotry of the ,jews and the treachery of ,judas ,iscariot1 ,christ would not have been crucified2 and if he had not been crucified1 all of us would have had our portion in the lake that burneth with eternal fire4 ,according to this great doctrine1 according to this vast and most wonderful scheme1 we owe1 as ,i said before1 our existence to the devil1 our salvation to ,judas ,iscariot and the bigotry of the ,jews4 ,so far as ,i am concerned1 ,i fail to see any mercy in the plan of salvation4 ,is it mercy to reward a man forever in consideration of believing a certain thing1 of the truth of which there is1 to his mind1 ample testimony8 ,is it mercy to punish a man with eternal fire simply because there is not testimony enough to satisfy his mind8 ,can there be such a thing as mercy in eternal punishment8 ,and yet this same ,deity says to me1 resist not evil2 pray for those that despitefully use you2 love your enemies1 but ,i will eternally damn mine4 ,it seems to me that even gods should practice what they preach4 ,all atonement1 after all1 is a kind of moral bankruptcy4 ,under its provisions1 man is allowed the luxury of sinning upon a credit4 ,whenever he is guilty of a wicked action he says1 charge it4 ,this kind of bookkeeping1 in my judgment1 tends to breed extravagance in sin4 ,the truth is1 most ,christians are better than their creeds2 most creeds are better than the ,bible1 and most men are better than their ,god4 ,,other ,,religions4 ,,xiii4 ,,we must remember that ours is not the only religion4 ,man has in all ages endeavored to answer the great questions ,whence8 and ,whither8 ,he has endeavored to read his destiny in the stars1 to pluck the secret of his existence from the night4 ,he has questioned the spectres of his own imagination4 ,he has explored the mysterious avenues of dreams4 ,he has peopled the heavens with spirits4 ,he has mistaken his visions for realities4 ,in the twilight of ignorance he has mistaken shadows for gods4 ,in all ages he has been the slave of misery1 the dupe of superstition and the fool of hope4 ,he has suffered and aspired4 ,religion is a thing of growth1 of development4 ,as we advance we throw aside the grosser and absurder forms of faith--practically at first by ceasing to observe them1 and lastly1 by denying them altogether4 ,every church necessarily by its constitution endeavors to prevent this natural growth or development4 ,what has happened to other religions must happen to ours4 ,ours is not superior to many that have passed1 or are passing away4 ,other religions have been lived for and died for by men as noble as ours can boast4 ,their dogmas and doctrines have1 to say the least1 been as reasonable1 as full of spiritual grandeur1 as ours4 ,man has had beautiful thoughts4 ,man has tried to solve these questions in all the countries of the world1 and ,i respect all such men and women2 but let me tell you one little thing4 ,i want to show you that in other countries there is something4 ,the ,parsee sect of ,persia say3 ,a ,persian saint ascended the three stairs that lead to heaven's gate1 and knocked2 a voice said3 ,who is there8 ,thy servant1 ,o ,god6 ,but the gates would not open4 ,for seven years he did every act of kindness2 again he came1 and the voice said3 ,who is there8 ,and he replied3 ,thy slave1 ,o ,god6 ,yet the gates were shut4 ,yet seven other years of kindness1 and the man again knocked2 and the voice cried and said3 ,who is there8 ,thyself1 ,o ,god6 ,and the gates wide open flew4 ,i say there is no more beautiful ,christian poem than this4 ,a ,persian after having read our religion1 with its frightful descriptions of perdition1 wrote these words3 ,two angels flying out from the blissful city of ,god--the angel of love and the angel of pity--hovered over the eternal pit where suffered the captives of hell4 ,one smile of love illumined the darkness and one tear of pity extinguished all the fires4 ,has orthodoxy produced anything as generously beautiful as this8 ,let me read you this3 ,sectarians1 hear this3 ,believers in eternal damnation1 hear this3 ,clergy of ,america who expect to have your happiness in heaven increased by seeing me burning in hell1 hear this3 ,this is the prayer of the ,brahmins--a prayer that has trembled from human lips toward heaven for more than four thousand years3 ,never will ,i seek or receive private individual salvation4 ,never will ,i enter into final bliss alone4 ,but forever and everywhere will ,i labor and strive for the final redemption of every creature throughout all worlds1 and until all are redeemed4 ,never will ,i wrongly leave this world to sin1 sorrow and struggle1 but will remain and work and suffer where ,i am4 ,has the orthodox religion produced a prayer like this8 ,see the infinite charity1 not only for every soul in this world1 but of all the shining worlds of the universe4 ,think of that1 ye parsons who imagine that a large majority are going to eternal ruin4 ,compare it with the sermons of ,jonathan ,edwards1 and compare it with the imprecation of ,christ3 ,depart ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels2 with the ideas of ,jeremy ,taylor1 with the creeds of ,christendom1 with all the prayers of all the saints1 and in no church except the ,universalist will you hear a prayer like this4 ,when thou art in doubt as to whether an action is good or bad1 abstain from it4 ,since the days of ,zoroaster has there been any rule for human conduct given superior to this8 ,are the principles taught by us superior to those of ,confucius8 ,he was asked if there was any single word comprising the duties of man4 ,he replied3 ,reciprocity4 ,upon being asked what he thought of the doctrine of returning benefits for injuries1 he replied3 ,that is not my doctrine4 ,if you return benefits for injuries what do you propose for benefits8 ,my doctrine is2 ,for benefits return benefits2 for injuries return justice without any admixture of revenge4 ,to return good for evil is to pay a premium upon wickedness4 ,i cannot put a man under obligation to do me a favor by doing him an injury4 ,now1 to-day1 right now1 what is the church doing8 ,what is it doing1 ,i ask you honestly8 ,does it satisfy the craving hearts of the nineteenth century8 ,are we satisfied8 ,i am not saying this except from the honesty of my heart4 ,are we satisfied8 ,is it a consolation to us now8 ,is it even a consolation when those we love die8 ,the dead are so near and the promises are so far away4 ,it is covered with the rubbish of the past4 ,i ask you1 is it all that is demanded by the brain and heart of the nineteenth century8 ,we want something better2 we want something grander2 we want something that has more brain in it1 and more heart in it4 ,we want to advance--that is what we want2 and you cannot advance without being a heretic--you cannot do it4 ,nearly all these religions have been upheld by persecution and bloodshed4 ,they have been rendered stable by putting fetters upon the human brain4 ,they have all1 however1 been perfectly natural productions1 and under similar circumstances would all be reproduced4 ,only by intellectual development are the old superstitions outgrown4 ,as only the few intellectually advance1 the majority is left on the side of superstition1 and remains there until the advanced ideas of the few thinkers become general2 and by that time there are other thinkers still in advance4 ,and so the work of development and growth slowly and painfully proceeds from age to age4 ,the pioneers are denounced as heretics1 and the heretics denounce their denouncers as the disciples of superstition and ignorance4 ,christ was a heretic4 ,herod was orthodox4 ,socrates was a blasphemer4 ,anytus worshiped all the gods4 ,luther was a skeptic1 while the sellers of indulgences were the best of ,catholics4 ,roger ,williams was a heretic1 while the ,puritans who drove him from ,massachusetts were all orthodox4 ,every step in advance in the religious history of the world has been taken by heretics4 ,no superstition has been destroyed except by a heretic4 ,no creed has been bettered except by a heretic4 ,heretic is the name that the orthodox laggard hurls at the disappearing pioneer4 ,it is shouted by the dwellers in swamps to the people upon the hills4 ,it is the opinion that midnight entertains of the dawn4 ,it is what the rotting says of the growing4 ,heretic is the name that a stench gives to a perfume4 ,with this word the coffin salutes the cradle4 ,it is taken from the lips of the dead4 ,orthodoxy is a shroud--heresy is a banner4 ,orthodoxy is an epitaph--heresy is a prophecy4 ,orthodoxy is a cloud1 a fog1 a mist--heresy the star shining forever above the child of truth4 ,i am a believer in the eternity of progress4 ,i do not believe that ,want will forever extend its withered hand1 its wan and shriveled palms1 for charity4 ,i do not believe that the children will forever be governed by cruelty and brute force4 ,i do not believe that poverty will dwell with man forever4 ,i do not believe that prisons will forever cover the earth1 or that the shadow of the gallows will forever fall upon the ground4 ,i do not believe that injustice will sit forever upon the bench1 or that malice and superstition will forever stand in the pulpit4 ,i believe the time will come when there will be charity in every heart1 when there will be love in every family1 and when law and liberty and justice1 like the atmosphere1 will surround this world4 ,we have worshiped the ghosts long enough4 ,we have prostrated ourselves before the ignorance of the past4 ,let us stand erect and look with hopeful eyes toward the brightening future4 ,let us stand by our convictions4 ,let us not throw away our idea of justice for the sake of any book or of any religion whatever4 ,let us live according to our highest and noblest and purest ideal4 ,by this time we should know that the real ,bible has not been written4 ,the real ,bible is not the work of inspired men1 or prophets1 or apostles1 or evangelists1 or of ,christs4 ,every man who finds a fact1 adds1 as it were1 a word to this great book4 ,it is not attested by prophecy1 by miracles1 or signs4 ,it makes no appeal to faith1 to ignorance1 to credulity or fear4 ,it has no punishment for unbelief1 and no reward for hypocrisy4 ,it appeals to man in the name of demonstration4 ,it has nothing to conceal4 ,it has no fear of being read1 of being contradicted1 of being investigated and understood4 ,it does not pretend to be holy1 or sacred2 it simply claims to be true4 ,it challenges the scrutiny of all1 and implores every reader to verify every line for himself4 ,it is incapable of being blasphemed4 ,this book appeals to all the surroundings of man4 ,each thing that exists testifies to its perfection4 ,the earth1 with its heart of fire and crowns of snow2 with its forests and plains1 its rocks and seas2 with its every wave and cloud2 with its every leaf and bud and flower1 confirms its every word1 and the solemn stars1 shining in the infinite abysses1 are the eternal witnesses of its truth4 ,ladies and gentlemen you cannot tell how ,i thank you this evening2 you cannot tell how ,i feel toward the intellectual hospitality of this great city by the ,pacific sea4 ,ladies and gentlemen1 ,i thank you--,i thank you again and again1 a thousand times4 ,,my ,,chicago ,,bible ,,class4 99 ,chicago ,times1 #ahgi4 ,to the ,editor3-- ,,nothing is more gratifying than to see ideas that were received with scorn1 flourishing in the sunshine of approval4 ,only a few weeks ago1 ,i stated that the ,bible was not inspired2 that ,moses was mistaken2 that the flood was a foolish myth2 that the ,tower of ,babel existed only in credulity2 that ,god did not create the universe from nothing1 that he did not start the first woman with a rib2 that he never upheld slavery2 that he was not a polygamist2 that he did not kill people for making hair-oil2 that he did not order his generals to kill the dimpled babes2 that he did not allow the roses of love and the violets of modesty to be trodden under the brutal feet of lust2 that the ,hebrew language was written without vowels2 that the ,bible was composed of many books1 written by unknown men2 that all translations differed from each other2 and that this book had filled the world with agony and crime4 ,at that time ,i had not the remotest idea that the most learned clergymen in ,chicago would substantially agree with me--in public4 ,i have read the replies of the ,rev4 ,robert ,collyer1 ,dr4 ,thomas1 ,rabbi ,kohler1 ,rev4 ,brooke ,herford1 ,prof4 ,swing and ,dr4 ,ryder1 and will now ask them a few questions1 answering them in their own words4 ,first4 ,rev4 ,robert ,collyer4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,it is a splendid book4 ,it makes the noblest type of ,catholics and the meanest bigots4 ,through this book men give their hearts for good to ,god1 or for evil to the devil4 ,the best argument for the intrinsic greatness of the book is that it can touch such wide extremes1 and seem to maintain us in the most unparalleled cruelty1 as well as the most tender mercy2 that it can inspire purity like that of the great saints1 and afford arguments in favor of polygamy4 ,the ,bible is the text book of ironclad ,calvinism and sunny ,universalism4 ,it makes the ,quaker quiet1 and the ,millerite crazy4 ,it inspired the ,union soldier to live and grandly die for the right1 and ,stonewall ,jackson to live nobly1 and die grandly for the wrong4 ,question4 ,but1 ,mr4 ,collyer1 do you really think that a book with as many passages in favor of wrong as right1 is inspired8 ,answer4 ,i look upon the ,old ,testament as a rotting tree4 ,when it falls it will fertilize a bank of violets4 ,question4 ,do you believe that ,god upheld slavery and polygamy8 ,do you believe that he ordered the killing of babes and the violation of maidens8 ,answer4 ,there is threefold inspiration in the ,bible1 the first1 peerless and perfect1 the word of ,god to man2 the second1 simply and purely human1 and then below this again1 there is an inspiration born of an evil heart1 ruthless and savage there and then as anything well can be4 ,a threefold inspiration1 of heaven first1 then of the earth1 and then of hell1 all in the same book1 all sometimes in the same chapter1 and then1 besides1 a great many things that need no inspiration4 ,question4 ,then after all you do not pretend that the ,scriptures are really inspired8 ,answer4 ,the ,scriptures make no such claim for themselves as the church makes for them4 ,they leave me free to say this is false1 or this is true4 ,the truth even within the ,bible1 dies and lives1 makes on this side and loses on that4 ,question4 ,what do you say to the last verse in the ,bible1 where a curse is threatened to any man who takes from or adds to the book8 ,answer4 ,i have but one answer to this question1 and it is3 ,let who will have written this1 ,i cannot for an instant believe that it was written by a divine inspiration4 ,such dogmas and threats as these are not of ,god1 but of man1 and not of any man of a free spirit and heart eager for the truth1 but a narrow man who would cripple and confine the human soul in its quest after the whole truth of ,god1 and back those who have done the shameful things in the name of the most high4 ,question4 ,do you not regard such talk as slang8 7,supposed7 ,answer4 ,if an infidel had said that the writer of ,revelation was narrow and bigoted1 ,i might have denounced his discourse as slang1 but ,i think that ,unitarian ministers can do so with the greatest propriety4 ,question4 ,do you believe in the stories of the ,bible1 about ,jael1 and the sun standing still1 and the walls falling at the blowing of horns8 ,answer4 ,they may be legends1 myths1 poems1 or what they will1 but they are not the word of ,god4 ,so ,i say again1 it was not the ,god and ,father of us all1 who inspired the woman to drive that nail crashing through the king's temple after she had given him that bowl of milk and bid him sleep in safety1 but a very mean devil of hatred and revenge1 that ,i should hardly expect to find in a squaw on the plains4 ,it was not the ram's horns and the shouting before which the walls fell flat4 ,if they went down at all1 it was through good solid pounding4 ,and not for an instant did the steady sun stand still or let his planet stand still while barbarian fought barbarian4 ,he kept just the time then he keeps now4 ,they might believe it who made the record4 ,i do not4 ,and since the whole ,christian world might believe it1 still we do not who gather in this church4 ,a free and reasonable mind stands right in our way4 ,newton might believe it as a ,christian1 and disbelieve it as a philosopher4 ,we stand then with the philosopher against the ,christian1 for we must believe what is true to us in the last test1 and these things are not true4 ,second4 ,rev4 ,dr4 ,thomas4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the ,old ,testament8 ,answer4 ,my opinion is that it is not one book1 but many--thirty-nine books bound up in one4 ,the date and authorship of most of these books are wholly unknown4 ,the ,hebrews wrote without vowels1 and without dividing the letters into syllables1 words1 or sentences4 ,the books were gathered up by ,ezra4 ,at that time only two of the ,jewish tribes remained4 ,all progress has ceased4 ,in gathering up the sacred book1 copyists exercised great liberty in making changes and additions4 ,question4 ,yes1 we know all that1 but is the ,old ,testament inspired8 ,answer4 ,there maybe the inspiration of art1 of poetry1 or oratory2 of patriotism--and there are such inspirations4 ,there are moments when great truths and principles come to men4 ,they seek the man1 and not the man them4 ,question4 ,yes1 we all admit that1 but is the ,bible inspired8 ,answer4 ,but still ,i know of no way to convince anyone of spirit1 and inspiration1 and ,god1 only as his reason may take hold of these things4 ,question4 ,do you think the ,old ,testament true8 ,answer4 ,the story of ,eden may be an allegory4 ,the history of the children of ,israel may have mistakes4 ,question4 ,must inspiration claim infallibility8 ,answer4 ,it is a mistake to say that if you believe one part of the ,bible you must believe all4 ,some of the thirty-nine books may be inspired1 others not2 or there may be degrees of inspiration4 ,question4 ,do you believe that ,god commanded the soldiers to kill the children and the married women1 and save for themselves1 the maidens1 as recorded in ,numbers xxxi1 #b1 ,do you believe that ,god upheld slavery8 ,do you believe that ,god upheld polygamy8 ,answer4 ,the ,bible may be wrong in some statements4 ,god and right cannot be wrong4 ,we must not exalt the ,bible above ,god4 ,it may be that we have claimed too much for the ,bible1 and thereby given not a little occasion for such men as ,mr4 ,ingersoll to appear at the other extreme1 denying too much4 ,question4 ,what then shall be done8 ,answer4 ,we must take a middle ground4 ,it is not necessary to believe that the bears devoured the forty-two children1 nor that ,jonah was swallowed by the whale4 ,third4 ,rev4 ,dr4 ,kohler4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion about the ,old ,testament8 ,answer4 ,i will not make futile attempts of artificially interpreting the letter of the ,bible so as to make it reflect the philosophical1 moral and scientific views of our time4 ,the ,bible is a sacred record of humanity's childhood4 ,question4 ,are you an orthodox ,christian8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,orthodoxy1 with its face turned backward to a ruined temple or a dead ,messiah1 is fast becoming like ,lot's wife1 a pillar of salt4 ,question4 ,do you really believe the ,old ,testament was inspired8 ,answer4 ,i greatly acknowledge our indebtedness to men like ,voltaire and ,thomas ,paine1 whose bold denial and cutting wit were so instrumental in bringing about this glorious era of freedom1 so congenial and blissful1 particularly to the long-abused ,jewish race4 ,question4 ,do you believe in the inspiration of the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,of course there is a destructive axe needed to strike down the old building in order to make room for the grander new4 ,the divine origin claimed by the ,hebrews for their national literature1 was claimed by all nations for their old records and laws as preserved by the priesthood4 ,as ,moses1 the ,hebrew law-giver1 is represented as having received the law from ,god on the holy mountain1 so is ,zoroaster the ,persian1 ,manu the ,hindoo1 ,minos the ,cretan1 ,lycurgus the ,spartan1 and ,numa the ,roman4 ,question4 ,do you believe all the stories in the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,all that can and must be said against them is that they have been too long retained around the arms and limbs of grown-up manhood1 to check the spiritual progress of religion2 that by ,jewish ritualism and ,christian dogmatism they became fetters unto the soul1 turning the light of heaven into a misty haze to blind the eye1 and even into a hell-fire of fanaticism to consume souls4 ,question4 ,is the ,bible inspired8 ,answer4 ,true1 the ,bible is not free from errors1 nor is any work of man and time4 ,it abounds in childish views and offensive matter4 ,i trust that it will in a time not far off be presented for common use in families1 schools1 synagogues and churches1 in a refined shape1 cleansed from all dross and chaff1 and stumbling blocks in which the scoffer delights to dwell4 ,fourth4 ,rev4 ,mr4 ,herford4 ,question4 ,is the ,bible true8 ,answer4 ,ingersoll is very fond of saying ',the question is not1 is the ,bible inspired1 but is it true8' ,that sounds very plausible1 but you know as applied to any ancient book it is simply nonsense4 ,question4 ,do you think the stories in the ,bible exaggerated8 ,answer4 ,i dare say the numbers are immensely exaggerated4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,god upheld polygamy8 ,answer4 ,the truth of which simply is1 that four thousand years ago polygamy existed among the ,jews1 as everywhere else on earth then1 and even their prophets did not come to the idea of its being wrong4 ,but what is there to be indignant about in that8 ,question4 ,and so you really wonder why any man should be indignant at the idea that ,god upheld and sanctioned that beastliness called polygamy8 ,answer4 ,what is there to be indignant about in that8 ,fifth4 ,prof4 ,swing4 ,question4 ,what is your idea of the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,i think it is a poem4 ,sixth4 ,rev4 ,dr4 ,ryder4 ,question4 ,and what is your idea of the sacred ,scriptures8 ,answer4 ,like other nations1 the ,hebrews had their patriotic1 descriptive1 didactic and lyrical poems in the same varieties as other nations2 but with them1 unlike other nations1 whatever may be the form of their poetry1 it always possesses the characteristic of religion4 ,question4 ,i suppose you fully appreciate the religious characteristics of the ,song of ,solomon4 ,no answer4 ,question4 ,does the ,bible uphold polygamy8 ,answer4 ,the law of ,moses did not forbid it1 but contained many provisions against its worst abuses1 and such as were intended to restrict it within narrow limits4 ,question4 ,so you think ,god corrected some of the worst abuses of polygamy1 but preserved the institution itself8 ,i might question many others1 but have concluded not to consider those as members of my ,bible ,class who deal in calumnies and epithets4 ,from the so-called replies of such ministers1 it appears that while ,christianity changes the heart1 it does not improve the manners1 and that one can get into heaven in the next world without having been a gentleman in this4 ,it is difficult for me to express the deep and thrilling satisfaction ,i have experienced in reading the admissions of the clergy of ,chicago4 ,surely1 the battle of intellectual liberty is almost won1 when ministers admit that the ,bible is filled with ignorant and cruel mistakes2 that each man has the right to think for himself1 and that it is not necessary to believe the ,scriptures in order to be saved4 ,from the bottom of my heart ,i congratulate my pupils on the advance they have made1 and hope soon to meet them on the serene heights of perfect freedom4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,washington1 ,d4 ,c41 ,may #g1 #ahgi4 ,,to ,,the ,,indianapolis ,,clergy4 99 ,the ,iconoclast1 ,indianapolis1 ,indiana4 #ahhc4 ,,the following questions have been submitted to me by the ,rev4 ,david ,walk1 ,dr4 ,t4 ,b4 ,taylor1 the ,rev4 ,myron ,w4 ,reed1 and the ,rev4 ,d4 ,o',donaghue1 of ,indianapolis1 with the request that ,i answer4 ,question4 ,is the ,character of ,jesus of ,nazareth1 as described in the ,four ,gospels1 ,fictional or ,real8--,rev4 ,david ,walk4 ,answer4 ,in all probability1 there was a man by the name of ,jesus ,christ1 who was1 in his day and generation1 a reformer--a man who was infinitely shocked at the religion of ,jehovah--who became almost insane with pity as he contemplated the sufferings of the weak1 the poor1 and the ignorant at the hands of an intolerant1 cruel1 hypocritical1 and bloodthirsty church4 ,it is no wonder that such a man predicted the downfall of the temple4 ,in all probability1 he hated1 at last1 every pillar and stone in it1 and despised even the ,holy of ,holies4 ,this man1 of course1 like other men1 grew4 ,he did not die with the opinion he held in his youth4 ,he changed his views from time to time--fanned the spark of reason into a flame1 and as he grew older his horizon extended and widened1 and he became gradually a wiser1 greater1 and better man4 ,i find two or three ,christs described in the four ,gospels4 ,in some portions you would imagine that he was an exceedingly pious ,jew4 ,when he says that people must not swear by ,jerusalem1 because it is ,god's holy city1 certainly no ,pharisee could have gone beyond that expression4 ,so1 too1 when it is recorded that he drove the money changers from the temple4 ,this1 had it happened1 would have been the act simply of one who had respect for this temple and not for the religion taught in it4 ,it would seem that1 at first1 ,christ believed substantially in the religion of his time2 that afterward1 seeing its faults1 he wished to reform it2 and finally1 comprehending it in all its enormity1 he devoted his life to its destruction4 ,this view shows that he increased in stature and grew in knowledge4 ,this view is also supported by the fact that1 at first1 according to the account1 ,christ distinctly stated that his gospel was not for the ,gentiles4 ,at that time he had altogether more patriotism than philosophy4 ,in my own opinion1 he was driven to like the ,gentiles by the persecution he endured at home4 ,he found1 as every ,freethinker now finds1 that there are many saints not in churches and many devils not out4 ,the character of ,christ1 in many particulars1 as described in the ,gospels1 depends upon who wrote the ,gospels4 ,each one endeavored to make a ,christ to suit himself4 ,so that ,christ1 after all1 is a growth2 and since the ,gospels were finished1 millions of men have been adding to and changing the character of ,christ4 ,there is another thing that should not be forgotten1 and that is that the ,gospels were not written until after the ,epistles4 ,i take it for granted that ,paul never saw any of the ,gospels1 for the reason that he quotes none of them4 ,there is also this remarkable fact3 ,paul quotes none of the miracles of the ,new ,testament4 ,he says not one word about the multitude being fed miraculously1 not one word about the resurrection of ,lazarus1 nor of the widow's son4 ,he had never heard of the lame1 the halt1 and the blind that had been cured2 or if he had1 he did not think these incidents of enough importance to be embalmed in an epistle4 ,so we find that none of the early fathers ever quoted from the four ,gospels4 ,nothing can be more certain than that the four ,gospels were not written until after the ,epistles1 and nothing can be more certain than that the early ,christians knew nothing of what we call the ,gospels of ,matthew1 ,mark1 ,luke1 and ,john4 ,all these things have been growths4 ,at first it was believed that ,christ was a direct descendant from ,david4 ,at that time the disciples of ,christ1 of course1 were ,jews4 ,the ,messiah was expected through the blood of ,david4--,for that reason1 the genealogy of ,joseph1 a descendant of ,david1 was given4 ,it was not until long after1 that the idea came into the minds of ,christians that ,christ was the son of the ,holy ,ghost4 ,if they1 at the time the genealogy was given1 believed that ,christ was in fact the son of the ,holy ,ghost1 why did they give the genealogy of ,joseph to show that ,christ was related to ,david8 ,in other words1 why should the son of ,god attempt to get glory out of the fact that he had in his veins the blood of a barbarian king8 ,there is only one answer to this4 ,the ,jews expected the ,messiah through ,david1 and in order to prove that ,christ was the ,messiah1 they gave the genealogy of ,joseph4 ,afterward1 the idea became popularized that ,christ was the son of ,god1 and then were interpolated the words as was supposed in the genealogy of ,christ4 ,it was a long time before the disciples became great enough to include the world in their scheme1 and before they thought it proper to tell the glad tidings of great joy beyond the limits of ,judea4 ,my own opinion is that the man called ,christ lived2 but whether he lived in ,palestine1 or not1 is of no importance4 ,his life is worth its example1 its moral force1 its benevolence1 its self-denial and heroism4 ,it is of no earthly importance whether he changed water into wine or not4 ,all his miracles are simply dust and darkness compared with what he actually said and actually did4 ,we should be kind to each other whether ,lazarus was raised or not4 ,we should be just and forgiving whether ,christ lived or not4 ,all the miracles in the world are of no use to virtue1 morality1 or justice4 ,miracles belong to superstition1 to ignorance1 to fear and folly4 ,neither does it make any difference who wrote the ,gospels4 ,they are worth the truth that is in them and no more4 ,the words of ,paul are often quoted1 that all scripture is given by inspiration of ,god4 ,of course that could not have applied to anything written after that time4 ,it could have applied only to the ,scriptures then written and then known4 ,it is perfectly clear that the four ,gospels were not at that time written1 and therefore this statement of ,paul's does not apply to the four ,gospels4 ,neither does it apply to anything written after that statement was written4 ,neither does it apply to that statement4 ,if it applied to anything it was the ,old ,testament1 and not the ,new4 ,christ has been belittled by his worshipers4 ,when stripped of the miraculous2 when allowed to be1 not divine but divinely human1 he will have gained a thousandfold in the estimation of mankind4 ,i think of him as ,i do of ,buddha1 as ,i do of ,confucius1 of ,epictetus1 of ,bruno4 ,i place him with the great1 the generous1 the self-denying of the earth1 and for the man ,christ1 ,i feel only admiration and respect4 ,i think he was in many things mistaken4 ,his reliance upon the goodness of ,god was perfect4 ,he seemed to believe that his father in heaven would protect him4 ,he thought that if ,god clothed the lilies of the field in beauty1 if he provided for the sparrows1 he would surely protect a perfectly just and loving man4 ,in this he was mistaken2 and in the darkness of death1 overwhelmed1 he cried out3 ,why hast thou forsaken me8 ,i do not believe that ,christ ever claimed to be divine2 ever claimed to be inspired2 ever claimed to work a miracle4 ,in short1 ,i believe that he was an honest man4 ,these claims were all put in his mouth by others--by mistaken friends1 by ignorant worshipers1 by zealous and credulous followers1 and sometimes by dishonest and designing priests4 ,this has happened to all the great men of the world4 ,all historical characters are1 in part1 deformed or reformed by fiction4 ,there was a man by the name of ,george ,washington1 but no such ,george ,washington ever existed as we find portrayed in history4 ,the historical ,caesar never lived4 ,the historical ,mohammed is simply a myth4 ,it is the task of modern criticism to rescue these characters1 and in the mass of superstitious rubbish to find the actual man4 ,christians borrowed the old clothes of the ,olympian gods and gave them to ,christ4 ,to me1 ,christ the man is far greater than ,christ the god4 ,to me1 it has always been a matter of wonder that ,christ said nothing as to the obligation man is under to his country1 nothing as to the rights of the people as against the wish and will of kings1 nothing against the frightful system of human slavery--almost universal in his time4 ,what he did not say is altogether more wonderful than what he did say4 ,it is marvelous that he said nothing upon the subject of intemperance1 nothing about education1 nothing about philosophy1 nothing about nature1 nothing about art4 ,he said nothing in favor of the home1 except to offer a reward to those who would desert their wives and families4 ,of course1 ,i do not believe that he said the words that were attributed to him1 in which a reward is offered to any man who will desert his kindred4 ,but if we take the account given in the four ,gospels as the true account1 then ,christ did offer a reward to a father who would desert his children4 ,it has always been contended that he was a perfect example of mankind1 and yet he never married4 ,as a result of what he did not teach in connection with what he did teach1 his followers saw no harm in slavery1 no harm in polygamy4 ,they belittled this world and exaggerated the importance of the next4 ,they consoled the slave by telling him that in a little while he would exchange his chains for wings4 ,they comforted the captive by saying that in a few days he would leave his dungeon for the bowers of ,paradise4 ,his followers believed that he had said that ,whosoever believeth not shall be damned4 ,this passage was the cross upon which intellectual liberty was crucified4 ,if ,christ had given us the laws of health2 if he had told us how to cure disease by natural means2 if he had set the captive free2 if he had crowned the people with their rightful power2 if he had placed the home above the church2 if he had broken all the mental chains2 if he had flooded all the caves and dens of fear with light1 and filled the future with a common joy1 he would in truth have been the ,savior of this world4 ,question4 ,how do you account for the difference between the ,christian and other modern civilizations8 ,answer4 ,i account for the difference between men by the difference in their ancestry and surroundings--the difference in soil1 climate1 food1 and employment4 ,there would be no civilization in ,england were it not for the ,gulf ,stream4 ,there would have been very little here had it not been for the discovery of ,columbus4 ,and even now on this continent there would be but little civilization had the soil been poor4 ,i might ask3 ,how do you account for the civilization of ,egypt8 ,at one time that was the greatest civilization in the world4 ,did that fact prove that the ,egyptian religion was of divine origin8 ,so1 too1 there was a time when the civilization of ,india was beyond all others4 ,does that prove that ,vishnu was a ,god8 ,greece dominated the intellectual world for centuries4 ,does that fact absolutely prove that ,zeus was the creator of heaven and earth8 ,the same may be said of ,rome4 ,there was a time when ,rome governed the world1 and yet ,i have always had my doubts as to the truth of the ,roman mythology4 ,as a matter of fact1 ,rome was far better than any ,christian nation ever was to the end of the seventeenth century4 ,a thousand years of ,christian rule produced no fellow for the greatest of ,rome4 ,there were no poets the equals of ,horace or ,virgil1 no philosophers as great as ,lucretius1 no orators like ,cicero1 no emperors like ,marcus ,aurelius1 no women like the mothers of ,rome4 ,the civilization of a country may be hindered by a religion1 but it has never been increased by any form of superstition4 ,when ,america was discovered it had the same effect upon ,europe that it would have1 for instance1 upon the city of ,chicago to have ,lake ,michigan put the other side of it4 ,the ,mediterranean lost its trade4 ,the centers of commerce became deserted4 ,the prow of the world turned westward1 and1 as a result1 ,france1 ,england1 and all countries bordering on the ,atlantic became prosperous4 ,the world has really been civilized by discoverers--by thinkers4 ,the man who invented powder1 and by that means released hundreds of thousands of men from the occupations of war1 did more for mankind than religion4 ,the inventor of paper--and he was not a ,christian--did more than all the early fathers for mankind4 ,the inventors of plows1 of sickles1 of cradles1 of reapers2 the inventors of wagons1 coaches1 locomotives2 the inventors of skiffs1 sail-vessels1 steamships2 the men who have made looms--in short1 the inventors of all useful things--they are the civilizers taken in connection with the great thinkers1 the poets1 the musicians1 the actors1 the painters1 the sculptors4 ,the men who have invented the useful1 and the men who have made the useful beautiful1 are the real civilizers of mankind4 ,the priests1 in all ages1 have been hindrances--stumbling-blocks4 ,they have prevented man from using his reason4 ,they have told ghost stories to courage until courage became fear4 ,they have done all in their power to keep men from growing intellectually1 to keep the world in a state of childhood1 that they themselves might be deemed great and good and wise4 ,they have always known that their reputation for wisdom depended upon the ignorance of the people4 ,i account for the civilization of ,france by such men as ,voltaire4 ,he did good by assisting to destroy the church4 ,luther did good exactly in the same way4 ,he did harm in building another church4 ,i account1 in part1 for the civilization of ,england by the fact that she had interests greater than the church could control2 and by the further fact that her greatest men cared nothing for the church4 ,i account in part for the civilization of ,america by the fact that our fathers were wise enough1 and jealous of each other enough1 to absolutely divorce church and state4 ,they regarded the church as a dangerous mistress--one not fit to govern a president4 ,this divorce was obtained because men like ,jefferson and ,paine were at that time prominent in the councils of the people4 ,there is this peculiarity in our country--the only men who can be trusted with human liberty are the ones who are not to be angels hereafter4 ,liberty is safe so long as the sinners have an opportunity to be heard4 ,neither must we imagine that our civilization is the only one in the world4 ,they had no locks and keys in ,japan until that country was visited by ,christians1 and they are now used only in those ports where ,christians are allowed to enter4 ,it has often been claimed that there is but one way to make a man temperate1 and that is by making him a ,christian2 and this is claimed in face of the fact that ,christian nations are the most intemperate in the world4 ,for nearly thirteen centuries the followers of ,mohammed have been absolute teetotalers--not one drunkard under the flag of the star and crescent4 ,wherever1 in ,turkey1 a man is seen under the influence of liquor1 they call him a ,christian4 ,you must also remember that almost every ,christian nation has held slaves4 ,only a few years ago ,england was engaged in the slave trade4 ,a little while before that our ,puritan ancestors sold white ,quaker children in the ,barbadoes1 and traded them for rum1 sugar1 and negro slaves4 ,even now the latest champion of ,christianity upholds slavery1 polygamy1 and wars of extermination4 ,sometimes ,i suspect that our own civilization is not altogether perfect4 ,when ,i think of the penitentiaries crammed to suffocation1 and of the many who ought to be in2 of the want1 the filth1 the depravity of the great cities2 of the starvation in the manufacturing centers of ,great ,britain1 and1 in fact1 of all ,europe2 when ,i see women working like beasts of burden1 and little children deprived1 not simply of education1 but of air1 light and food1 there is a suspicion in my mind that ,christian civilization is not a complete and overwhelming success4 ,after all1 ,i am compelled to account for the advance that we have made1 by the discoveries and inventions of men of genius4 ,for the future ,i rely upon the sciences2 upon the cultivation of the intellect4 ,i rely upon labor2 upon human interests in this world2 upon the love of wife and children and home4 ,i do not rely upon sacred books1 but upon good men and women4 ,i do not rely upon superstition1 but upon knowledge2 not upon miracles1 but upon facts2 not upon the dead1 but upon the living2 and when we become absolutely civilized1 we shall look back upon the superstitions of the world1 not simply with contempt1 but with pity4 ,neither do ,i rely upon missionaries to convert those whom we are pleased to call the heathen4 ,honest commerce is the great civilizer4 ,we exchange ideas when we exchange fabrics4 ,the effort to force a religion upon the people always ends in war4 ,commerce1 founded upon mutual advantage1 makes peace4 ,an honest merchant is better than a missionary4 ,spain was blessed with what is called ,christian civilization1 and yet1 for hundreds of years1 that government was simply an organized crime4 ,when one pronounces the name of ,spain1 he thinks of the invasion of the ,new ,world1 the persecution in the ,netherlands1 the expulsion of the ,jews1 and the ,inquisition4 ,even to-day1 the ,christian nations of ,europe preserve themselves from each other by bayonet and ball4 ,prussia has a standing army of six hundred thousand men1 ,france a half million1 and all their neighbors a like proportion4 ,these countries are civilized4 ,they are in the enjoyment of ,christian governments--have their hundreds of a thousands of ministers1 and the land covered with cathedrals and churches--and yet every nation is nearly beggared by keeping armies in the field4 ,christian kings have no confidence in the promises of each other4 ,what they call peace is the little time necessarily spent in reloading their guns4 ,england has hundreds of ships of war to protect her commerce from other ,christians1 and to force ,china to open her ports to the opium trade4 ,only the other day the ,prime ,minister of ,china1 in one of his dispatches to the ,english government1 used substantially the following language3 ,england regards the opium question simply as one of trade1 but to ,china1 it has a moral aspect4 ,think of ,christian ,england carrying death and desolation to hundreds of thousands in the name of trade4 ,then think of heathen ,china protesting in the name of morality4 ,at the same time ,england has the impudence to send missionaries to ,china4 ,what has been called ,christianity has been a disturber of the public peace in all countries and at all times4 ,nothing has so alienated nations1 nothing has so destroyed the natural justice of mankind1 as what has been known as religion4 ,the idea that all men must worship the same ,god1 believe the same dogmas1 has for thousands of years plucked with bloody hands the flower of pity from the human heart4 ,our civilization is not ,christian4 ,it does not come from the skies4 ,it is not a result of inspiration4 ,it is the child of invention1 of discovery1 of applied knowledge--that is to say1 of science4 ,when man becomes great and grand enough to admit that all have equal rights2 when thought is untrammeled2 when worship shall consist in doing useful things2 when religion means the discharge of obligations to our fellow-men1 then1 and not until then1 will the world be civilized4 ,question4 ,since ,laplace and other most distinguished astronomers hold to the theory that the earth was originally in a gaseous state1 and then a molten mass in which the germs1 even1 of vegetable or animal life1 could not exist1 how do you account for the origin of life on this planet without a ,creator8--,dr4 ,t4 ,b4 ,taylor4 ,answer4 ,whether or not the earth was originally in a gaseous state and afterwards a molten mass in which the germs of vegetable and animal life could not exist1 ,i do not know4 ,my belief is that the earth as it is1 and as it was1 taken in connection with the influence of the sun1 and of other planets1 produced whatever has existed or does exist on the earth4 ,i do not see why gas would not need a creator as much as a vegetable4 ,neither can ,i imagine that there is any more necessity for some one to start life than to start a molten mass4 ,there may be now portions of the world in which there is not one particle of vegetable life4 ,it may be that on the wide waste fields of the ,arctic zone there are places where no vegetable life exists1 and there may be many thousand miles where no animal life can be found4 ,but if the poles of the earth could be changed1 and if the ,arctic zone could be placed in a different relative position to the sun1 the snows would melt1 the hills would appear1 and in a little while even the rocks would be clothed with vegetation4 ,after a time vegetation would produce more soil1 and in a few thousand years forests would be filled with beasts and birds4 ,i think it was ,sir ,william ,thomson who1 in his effort to account for the origin of life upon this earth1 stated that it might have come from some meteoric stone falling from some other planet having in it the germs of life4 ,what would you think of a farmer who would prepare his land and wait to have it planted by meteoric stones8 ,so1 what would you think of a ,deity who would make a world like this1 and allow it to whirl thousands and millions of years1 barren as a gravestone1 waiting for some vagrant comet to sow the seeds of life8 ,i believe that back of animal life is the vegetable1 and back of the vegetable1 it may be1 is the mineral4 ,it may be that crystallization is the first step toward what we call life1 and yet ,i believe life is back of that4 ,in my judgment1 if the earth ever was in a gaseous state1 it was filled with life4 ,these are subjects about which we know but little4 ,how do you account for chemistry8 ,how do you account for the fact that just so many particles of one kind seek the society of just so many particles of another1 and when they meet they instantly form a glad and lasting union8 ,how do you know but atoms have love and hatred8 ,how do you know that the vegetable does not enjoy growing1 and that crystallization itself is not an expression of delight8 ,how do you know that a vine bursting into flower does not feel a thrill8 ,we find sex in the meanest weeds--how can you say they have no loves8 ,after all1 of what use is it to search for a creator8 ,the difficulty is not thus solved4 ,you leave your creator as much in need of a creator as anything your creator is supposed to have created4 ,the bottom of your stairs rests on nothing1 and the top of your stairs leans upon nothing4 ,you have reached no solution4 ,the word ,god is simply born of our ignorance4 ,we go as far as we can1 and we say the rest of the way is ,god4 ,we look as far as we can1 and beyond the horizon1 where there is nought so far as we know but blindness1 we place our ,deity4 ,we see an infinitesimal segment of a circle1 and we say the rest is ,god4 ,man must give up searching for the origin of anything4 ,no one knows the origin of life1 or of matter1 or of what we call mind4 ,the whence and the whither are questions that no man can answer4 ,in the presence of these questions all intellects are upon a level4 ,the barbarian knows exactly the same as the scientist1 the fool as the philosopher4 ,only those who think that they have had some supernatural information pretend to answer these questions1 and the unknowable1 the impossible1 the unfathomable1 is the realm wholly occupied by the inspired4 ,we are satisfied that all organized things must have had a beginning1 but we cannot conceive that matter commenced to be4 ,forms change1 but substance remains eternally the same4 ,a beginning of substance is unthinkable4 ,it is just as easy to conceive of anything commencing to exist without a cause as with a cause4 ,there must be something for cause to operate upon4 ,cause operating upon nothing--were such a thing possible--would produce nothing4 ,there can be no relation between cause and nothing4 ,we can understand how things can be arranged1 joined or separated--and how relations can be changed or destroyed1 but we cannot conceive of creation--of nothing being changed into something1 nor of something being made--except from preexisting materials4 ,question4 ,since the universal testimony of the ages is in the affirmative of phenomena that attest the continued existence of man after death--which testimony is overwhelmingly sustained by the phenomena of the nineteenth century--what further evidence should thoughtful people require in order to settle the question1 ,does death end all8 ,answer4 ,i admit that in all ages men have believed in spooks and ghosts and signs and wonders4 ,this1 however1 proves nothing4 ,men have for thousands of ages believed the impossible1 and worshiped the absurd4 ,our ancestors have worshiped snakes and birds and beasts4 ,i do not admit that any ghost ever existed4 ,i know that no miracle was ever performed except in imagination2 and what you are pleased to call the phenomena of the nineteenth century1 ,i fear are on an exact equality with the phenomena of the ,dark ,ages4 ,we do not yet understand the action of the brain4 ,no one knows the origin of a thought4 ,no one knows how he thinks1 or why he thinks1 any more than one knows why or how his heart beats4 ,people1 ,i imagine1 have always had dreams4 ,in dreams they often met persons whom they knew to be dead1 and it may be that much of the philosophy of the present was born of dreams4 ,i cannot admit that anything supernatural ever has happened or ever will happen4 ,i cannot admit the truth of what you call the phenomena of the nineteenth century1 if by such phenomena you mean the reappearance of the dead4 ,i do not deny the existence of a future state1 because ,i do not know4 ,neither do ,i aver that there is one1 because ,i do not know4 ,upon this question ,i am simply honest4 ,i find that people who believe in immortality--or at least those who say they do--are just as afraid of death as anybody else4 ,i find that the most devout ,christian weeps as bitterly above his dead1 as the man who says that death ends all4 ,you see the promises are so far away1 and the dead are so near4 ,still1 ,i do not say that man is not immortal2 but ,i do say that there is nothing in the ,bible to show that he is4 ,the ,old ,testament has not a word upon the subject--except to show us how we lost immortality4 ,according to that book1 man was driven from the ,garden of ,eden1 lest he should put forth his hand and eat of the fruit of the tree of life and live forever4 ,so the fact is1 the ,old ,testament shows us how we lost immortality4 ,in the ,new ,testament we are told to seek for immortality1 and it is also stated that ,god alone hath immortality4 ,there is this curious thing about ,christians and ,spiritualists3 ,the ,spiritualists laugh at the ,christians for believing the miracles of the ,new ,testament2 they laugh at them for believing the story about the witch of ,endor4 ,and then the ,christians laugh at the ,spiritualists for believing that the same kind of things happen now4 ,as a matter of fact1 the ,spiritualists have the best of it1 because their witnesses are now living1 whereas the ,christians take simply the word of the dead--of men they never saw and of men about whom they know nothing4 ,the ,spiritualist1 at least1 takes the testimony of men and women that he can cross-examine4 ,it would seem as if these gentlemen ought to make common cause4 ,then the ,christians could prove their miracles by the ,spiritualists1 and the ,spiritualists could prove their phenomena by the ,christians4 ,i believe that thoughtful people require some additional testimony in order to settle the question1 ,does death end all8 ,if the dead return to this world they should bring us information of value4 ,there are thousands of questions that studious historians and savants are endeavoring to settle--questions of history1 of philosophy1 of law1 of art1 upon which a few intelligent dead ought to be able to shed a flood of light4 ,all the questions of the past ought to be settled4 ,some modern ghosts ought to get acquainted with some of the ,pharaohs1 and give us an outline of the history of ,egypt4 ,they ought to be able to read the arrow-headed writing and all the records of the past4 ,the hieroglyphics of all ancient peoples should be unlocked1 and thoughts and facts that have been imprisoned for so many thousand years should be released and once again allowed to visit brains4 ,the ,spiritualists ought to be able to give us the history of buried cities4 ,they should clothe with life the dust of all the past4 ,if they could only bring us valuable information2 if they could only tell us about some steamer in distress so that succor could be sent2 if they could only do something useful1 the world would cheerfully accept their theories and admit their facts4 ,i think that thoughtful people have the right to demand such evidence4 ,i would like to have the spirits give us the history of all the books of the ,new ,testament and tell us who first told of the miracles4 ,if they could give us the history of any religion1 or nation1 or anything1 ,i should have far more confidence in the phenomena of the nineteenth century4 ,there is one thing about the ,spiritualists ,i like1 and that is1 they are liberal4 ,they give to others the rights they claim for themselves4 ,they do not pollute their souls with the dogma of eternal pain4 ,they do not slander and persecute even those who deny their phenomena4 ,but ,i cannot admit that they have furnished conclusive evidence that death does not end all4 ,beyond the horizon of this life we have not seen4 ,from the mysterious beyond no messenger has come to me4 ,for the whole world ,i would not blot from the sky of the future a single star4 ,arched by the bow of hope let the dead sleep4 ,question4 ,how1 when1 where1 and by whom was our present calendar originated1--that is ,anno ,domini1--and what event in the history of the nations does it establish as a fact1 if not the birth of ,jesus of ,nazareth8 ,answer4 ,i have already said1 in answer to a question by another gentleman1 that ,i believe the man ,jesus ,christ existed1 and we now date from somewhere near his birth4 ,i very much doubt about his having been born on ,christmas1 because in reading other religions1 ,i find that that time has been celebrated for thousands of years1 and the cause of it is this3 ,about the #bast or #bb;d of ,december is the shortest day4 ,after that the days begin to lengthen and the sun comes back1 and for many centuries in most nations they had a festival in commemoration of that event4 ,the ,christians1 ,i presume1 adopted this day1 and made the birth of ,christ fit it4 ,three months afterward--the #bast of ,march--the days and nights again become equal1 and the day then begins to lengthen4 ,for centuries the nations living in the temperate zones have held festivals to commemorate the coming of spring--the yearly miracle of leaf1 of bud and flower4 ,this is the celebration known as ,easter1 and the ,christians adopted that in commemoration of ,christ's resurrection4 ,so that1 as a matter of fact1 these festivals of ,christmas and ,easter do not even tend to show that they stand for or are in any way connected with the birth or resurrection of ,christ4 ,in fact the evidence is overwhelmingly the other way4 ,while we are on the calendar business it may be well enough to say that we get our numerals from the ,arabs1 from whom also we obtained our ideas of algebra4 ,the higher mathematics came to us from the same source4 ,so from the ,arabs we receive chemistry1 and our first true notions of geography4 ,they gave us also paper and cotton4 ,owing to the fact that the earth does not make its circuit in the exact time of three hundred and sixty-five days and a quarter1 and owing to the fact that it was a long time before any near approach was made to the actual time1 all calendars after awhile became too inaccurate for general use1 and they were from time to time changed4 ,right here1 it may be well enough to remark1 that all the monuments and festivals in the world are not sufficient to establish an impossible event4 ,no amount of monumental testimony1 no amount of living evidence1 can substantiate a miracle4 ,the monument only proves the belief of the builders4 ,if we rely upon the evidence of monuments1 calendars1 dates1 and festivals1 all the religions on the earth can be substantiated4 ,turkey is filled with such monuments and much of the time wasted in such festivals4 ,we celebrate the ,fourth of ,july1 but such celebration does not even tend to prove that ,god1 by his special providence1 protected ,washington from the arrows of an ,indian4 ,the ,hebrews celebrate what is called the ,passover1 but this celebration does not even tend to prove that the angel of the ,lord put blood on the door-posts in ,egypt4 ,the ,mohammedans celebrate to-day the flight of ,mohammed1 but that does not tend to prove that ,mohammed was inspired and was a prophet of ,god4 ,nobody can change a falsehood to a truth by the erection of a monument4 ,monuments simply prove that people endeavor to substantiate truths and falsehoods by the same means4 ,question4 ,letting the question as to hell hereafter rest for the present1 how do you account for the hell here--namely1 the existence of pain8 ,there are people who1 by no fault of their own1 are at this present time in misery4 ,if for these there is no life to come1 their existence is a mistake2 but if there is a life to come1 it may be that the sequel to the acts of the play to come will justify the pain and misery of this present time8--,rev4 ,myron ,w4 ,reed4 ,answer4 ,there are four principal theories3 ,first--,that there is behind the universe a being of infinite power and wisdom1 kindness1 and justice4 ,second--,that the universe has existed from eternity1 and that it is the only eternal existence1 and that behind it is no creator4 ,third--,that there is a ,god who made the universe1 but who is not all-powerful and who is1 under the circumstances1 doing the best he can4 ,fourth--,that there is an all-powerful ,god who made the universe1 and that there is also a nearly all-powerful devil1 and this devil ravels about as fast as this ,god knits4 ,by the last theory1 as taught by ,plato1 it is extremely easy to account for the misery in this world4 ,if we admit that there is a malevolent being with power enough1 and with cunning enough1 to frequently circumvent ,god1 the problem of evil becomes solved so far as this world is concerned4 ,but why this being was evil is still unsolved2 why the devil is malevolent is still a mystery4 ,consequently you will have to go back of this world1 on that theory1 to account for the origin of evil4 ,if this devil always existed1 then1 of course1 the universe at one time was inhabited only by this ,god and this devil4 ,if the third theory is correct1 we can account for the fact that ,god does not see to it that justice is always done4 ,if the second theory is true1 that the universe has existed from eternity1 and is without a creator1 then we must account for the existence of evil and good1 not by personalities behind the universe1 but by the nature of things4 ,if there is an infinitely good and wise being who created all1 it seems to me that he should have made a world in which innocence should be a sufficient shield4 ,he should have made a world where the just man should have nothing to fear4 ,my belief is this3 ,we are surrounded by obstacles4 ,we are filled with wants4 ,we must have clothes4 ,we must have food4 ,we must protect ourselves from sun and storm1 from heat and cold4 ,in our conflict with these obstacles1 with each other1 and with what may be called the forces of nature1 all do not succeed4 ,it is a fact in nature that like begets like2 that man gives his constitution1 at least in part1 to his children2 that weakness and strength are in some degree both hereditary4 ,this is a fact in nature4 ,i do not hold any god responsible for this fact--filled as it is with pain and joy4 ,but it seems to me that an infinite ,god should so have arranged matters that the bad would not pass--that it would die with its possessor--that the good should survive1 and that the man should give to his son1 not the result of his vices1 but the fruit of his virtues4 ,i cannot see why we should expect an infinite ,god to do better in another world than he does in this4 ,if he allows injustice to prevail here1 why will he not allow the same thing in the world to come8 ,if there is any being with power to prevent it1 why is crime permitted8 ,if a man standing upon the railway should ascertain that a bridge had been carried off by a flood1 and if he also knew that the train was coming filled with men1 women1 and children2 with husbands going to their wives1 and wives rejoining their families2 if he made no effort to stop that train2 if he simply sat down by the roadside to witness the catastrophe1 and so remained until the train dashed off the precipice1 and its load of life became a mass of quivering flesh1 he would be denounced by every good man as the most monstrous of human beings4 ,and yet this is exactly what the supposed ,god does4 ,he1 if he exists1 sees the train rushing to the gulf4 ,he gives no notice4 ,he sees the ship rushing for the hidden rock4 ,he makes no sign4 ,and he so constructed the world that assassins lurk in the air--hide even in the sunshine--and when we imagine that we are breathing the breath of life1 we are taking into ourselves the seeds of death4 ,there are two facts inconsistent in my mind--a martyr and a ,god4 ,injustice upon earth renders the justice of heaven impossible4 ,i would not take from those suffering in this world the hope of happiness hereafter4 ,my principal object has been to take away from them the fear of eternal pain hereafter4 ,still1 it is impossible for me to explain the facts by which ,i am surrounded1 if ,i admit the existence of an infinite ,being4 ,i find in this world that physical and mental evils afflict the good4 ,it seems to me that ,i have the same reason to expect the bad to be rewarded hereafter4 ,i have no right to suppose that infinite wisdom will ever know any more1 or that infinite benevolence will increase in kindness1 or that the justice of the eternal can change4 ,if1 then1 this eternal being allows the good to suffer pain here1 what right have we to say that he will not allow them to suffer forever8 ,some people have insisted that this life is a kind of school for the production of self-denying men and women--that is1 for the production of character4 ,the statistics show that a large majority die under five years of age4 ,what would we think of a schoolmaster who killed the most of his pupils the first day8 ,if this doctrine is true1 and if manhood cannot be produced in heaven1 those who die in childhood are infinitely unfortunate4 ,i admit that1 although ,i do not understand the subject1 still1 all pain1 all misery may be for the best4 ,i do not know4 ,if there is an infinitely wise ,being1 who is also infinitely powerful1 then everything that happens must be for the best4 ,that philosophy of special providence1 going to the extreme1 is infinitely better than most of the ,christian creeds4 ,there seems to be no half-way house between special providence and atheism4 ,you know some of the ,buddhists say that when a man commits murder1 that is the best thing he could have done1 and that to be murdered was the best thing that could have happened to the killed4 ,they insist that every step taken is the necessary step and the best step2 that crimes are as necessary as virtues1 and that the fruit of crime and virtue is finally the same4 ,but whatever theories we have1 we have at last to be governed by the facts4 ,we are in a world where vice1 deformity1 weakness1 and disease are hereditary4 ,in the presence of this immense and solemn truth rises the religion of the body4 ,every man should refuse to increase the misery of this world4 ,and it may be that the time will come when man will be great enough and grand enough utterly to refrain from the propagation of disease and deformity1 and when only the healthy will be fathers and mothers4 ,we do know that the misery in this world can be lessened2 consequently ,i believe in the religion of this world4 ,and whether there is a heaven or hell here1 or hereafter1 every good man has enough to do to make this world a little better than it is4 ,millions of lives are wasted in the vain effort to find the origin of things1 and the destiny of man4 ,this world has been neglected4 ,we have been taught that life should be merely a preparation for death4 ,to avoid pain we must know the conditions of health4 ,for the accomplishment of this end we must rely upon investigation instead of faith1 upon labor in place of prayer4 ,most misery is produced by ignorance4 ,passions sow the seeds of pain4 ,question4 ,state with what words you can comfort those who have1 by their own fault1 or by the fault of others1 found this life not worth living8 ,answer4 ,if there is no life beyond this1 and so believing ,i come to the bedside of the dying--of one whose life has been a failure--a life not worth living1 ,i could at least say to such an one1 ,your failure ends with your death4 ,beyond the tomb there is nothing for you--neither pain nor misery1 neither grief nor joy4 ,but if ,i were a good orthodox ,christen1 then ,i would have to say to this man1 ,your life has been a failure2 you have not been a ,christian1 and the failure will be extended eternally2 you have not only been a failure for a time1 but you will be a failure forever4 ,admitting that there is another world1 and that the man's life had been a failure in this1 then ,i should say to him1 ,if you live again1 you will have the eternal opportunity to reform4 ,there will be no time1 no date1 no matter how many millions and billions of ages may have passed away1 at which you will not have the opportunity of doing right4 ,under no circumstances could ,i consistently say to this man3 ,although your life has been a failure2 although you have made hundreds and thousands of others suffer2 although you have deceived and betrayed the woman who loved you2 although you have murdered your benefactor2 still1 if you will now repent and believe a something that is unreasonable or reasonable to your mind1 you will1 at the moment of death1 be transferred to a world of eternal joy4 ,this ,i could not say4 ,i would tell him1 ,if you die a bad man here1 you will commence the life to come with the same character you leave this4 ,character cannot be made by another for you4 ,you must be the architect of your own4 ,there is to me unspeakably more comfort in the idea that every failure ends here1 than that it is to be perpetuated forever4 ,how can a ,christian comfort the mother of a girl who has died without believing in ,christ8 ,what doctrine is there in ,christianity to wipe away her tears8 ,what words of comfort can you offer to the mother whose brave boy fell in defence of his country1 she knowing and you knowing1 that the boy was not a ,christian1 that he did not believe in the ,bible1 and had no faith in the blood of the atonement8 ,what words of comfort have you for such fathers and for such mothers8 ,to me1 there is no doctrine so infinitely absurd as the idea that this life is a probationary state--that the few moments spent here decide the fate of a human soul forever4 ,nothing can be conceived more merciless1 more unjust4 ,i am doing all ,i can to destroy that doctrine4 ,i want1 if possible1 to get the shadow of hell from the human heart4 ,why has any life been a failure here8 ,if ,god is a being of infinite wisdom and kindness1 why does he make failures8 ,what excuse has infinite wisdom for peopling the world with savages8 ,why should one feel grateful to ,god for having made him with a poor1 weak and diseased brain2 for having allowed him to be the heir of consumption1 of scrofula1 or of insanity8 ,why should one thank ,god1 who lived and died a slave8 ,after all1 is it not of more importance to speak the absolute truth8 ,is it not manlier to tell the fact than to endeavor to convey comfort through falsehood8 ,people must reap not only what they sow1 but what others have sown4 ,the people of the whole world are united in spite of themselves4 ,next to telling a man1 whose life has been a failure1 that he is to enjoy an immortality of delight--next to that1 is to assure him that a place of eternal punishment does not exist4 ,after all1 there are but few lives worth living in any great and splendid sense4 ,nature seems filled with failure1 and she has made no exception in favor of man4 ,to the greatest1 to the most successful1 there comes a time when the fevered lips of life long for the cool1 delicious kiss of death--when1 tired of the dust and glare of day1 they hear with joy the rustling garments of the night4 ,archibald ,armstrong and ,jonathan ,newgate were fast friends4 ,their views in regard to the question of a future life1 and the existence of a ,god1 were in perfect accord4 ,they said3 ',we know so little about these matters that we are not justified in giving them any serious consideration4 ,our motto and rule of life shall be for each one to make himself as comfortable as he can1 and enjoy every pleasure within his reach1 not allowing himself to be influenced at all by thoughts of a future life4' ,both had some money4 ,archibald had a large amount4 ,once upon a time when no human eye saw him--and he had no belief in a ,god--,jonathan stole every dollar of his friend's wealth1 leaving him penniless4 ,he had no fear1 no remorse2 no one saw him do the deed4 ,he became rich1 enjoyed life immensely1 lived in contentment and pleasure1 until in mellow old age he went the way of all flesh4 ,archibald fared badly4 ,the odds were against him4 ,his money was gone4 ,he lived in penury and discontent1 dissatisfied with mankind and with himself1 until at last1 overcome by misfortune1 and depressed by an incurable malady1 he sought rest in painless suicide4 ,question4 ,what are we to think of the rule of life laid down by these men8 ,was either of them inconsistent or illogical8 ,is there no remedy to correct such irregularities8--,rev4 ,d4 ,o',donaghue4 ,answer4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,o',donaghue seems to entertain strange ideas as to right and wrong4 ,he tells us that ,archibald ,armstrong and ,jonathan ,newgate concluded to make themselves as comfortable as they could and enjoy every pleasure within their reach1 and the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,o',donaghue states that one of the pleasures within the reach of ,mr4 ,newgate was to steal what little money ,mr4 ,armstrong had4 ,does the reverend gentleman think that ,mr4 ,newgate made or could make himself comfortable in that way8 ,he tells us that ,mr4 ,newgate had no remorse1--that he became rich and enjoyed life immensely1--that he lived in contentment and pleasure1 until1 in mellow old age1 he went the way of all flesh4 ,does the reverend gentleman really believe that a man can steal without fear1 without remorse8 ,does he really suppose that one can enjoy the fruits of theft1 that a criminal can live a contented and happy life1 that one who has robbed his friend can reach a mellow and delightful old age8 ,is this the philosophy of the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,o',donaghue8 ,and right here ,i may be permitted to ask1 ,why did the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,o',donaghue's ,god allow a thief to live without fear1 without remorse1 to enjoy life immensely and to reach a mellow old age8 ,and why did he allow ,mr4 ,armstrong1 who had been robbed1 to live in penury and discontent1 until at last1 overcome by misfortune1 he sought rest in suicide8 ,does the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,o',donaghue mean to say that if there is no future life it is wise to steal in this8 ,if the grave is the eternal home1 would the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,o',donaghue advise people to commit crimes in order that they may enjoy this life8 ,such is not my philosophy4 ,whether there is a ,god or not1 truth is better than falsehood4 ,whether there is a heaven or hell1 honesty is always the best policy4 ,there is no world1 and can be none1 where vice can sow the seed of crime and reap the sheaves of joy4 ,according to my view1 ,mr4 ,armstrong was altogether more fortunate than ,mr4 ,newgate4 ,i had rather be robbed than to be a robber1 and ,i had rather be of such a disposition that ,i would be driven to suicide by misfortune than to live in contentment upon the misfortunes of others4 ,the reverend gentleman1 however1 should have made his question complete--he should have gone the entire distance4 ,he should have added that ,mr4 ,newgate1 after having reached a mellow old age1 was suddenly converted1 joined the church1 and died in the odor of sanctity on the very day that his victim committed suicide4 ,but ,i will answer the fable of the reverend gentleman with a fact4 ,a young man was in love with a girl4 ,she was young1 beautiful1 and trustful4 ,she belonged to no church--knew nothing about a future world--basked in the sunshine of this4 ,all her life had been filled with gentle deeds4 ,the tears of pity had sanctified her cheeks4 ,she believed in no religion1 worshiped no ,god1 believed no ,bible1 but loved everything4 ,her lover in a fit of jealous rage murdered her4 ,he was tried2 convicted2 a motion for a new trial overruled and a pardon refused4 ,in his cell1 in the shadow of death1 he was converted--he became a ,catholic4 ,with the white lips of fear he confessed to a priest4 ,he received the sacrament4 ,he was hanged1 and from the rope's end winged his way to the realms of bliss4 ,for months the murdered girl had suffered all the pains and pangs of hell4 ,the poor girl will endure the agony of the damned forever1 while her murderer will be ravished with angelic chant and song4 ,such is the justice of the orthodox ,god4 ,allow me to use the language of the reverend gentleman3 ,is there no remedy to correct such irregularities8 ,as long as the idea of eternal punishment remains a part of the ,christian system1 that system will be opposed by every man of heart and brain4 ,of all religious dogmas it is the most shocking1 infamous1 and absurd4 ,the preachers of this doctrine are the enemies of human happiness2 they are the assassins of natural joy4 ,every father1 every mother1 every good man1 every loving woman1 should hold this doctrine in abhorrence2 they should refuse to pay men for preaching it2 they should not build churches in which this infamy is taught2 they should teach their little children that it is a lie2 they should take this horror from childhood's heart--a horror that makes the cradle as terrible as the coffin4 ,,the ,,brooklyn ,,divines4 99 ,brooklyn ,union1 #ahhc4 ,question4 ,the clergymen who have been interviewed1 almost unanimously have declared that the church is suffering very little from the skepticism of the day1 and that the influence of the scientific writers1 whose opinions are regarded as atheistic or infidel1 is not great2 and that the books of such writers are not read as much as some people think they are4 ,what is your opinion with regard to that subject8 ,answer4 ,it is natural for a man to defend his business1 to stand by his class1 his caste1 his creed4 ,and ,i suppose this accounts for the ministers all saying that infidelity is not on the increase4 ,by comparing long periods of time1 it is very easy to see the progress that has been made4 ,only a few years ago men who are now considered quite orthodox would have been imprisoned1 or at least mobbed1 for heresy4 ,only a few years ago men like ,huxley and ,tyndall and ,spencer and ,darwin and ,humboldt would have been considered as the most infamous of monsters4 ,only a few years ago science was superstition's hired man4 ,the scientific men apologized for every fact they happened to find4 ,with hat in hand they begged pardon of the parson for finding a fossil1 and asked the forgiveness of ,god for making any discovery in nature4 ,at that time every scientific discovery was something to be pardoned4 ,moses was authority in geology1 and ,joshua was considered the first astronomer of the world4 ,now everything has changed1 and everybody knows it except the clergy4 ,now religion is taking off its hat to science4 ,religion is finding out new meanings for old texts4 ,we are told that ,god spoke in the language of the common people2 that he was not teaching any science2 that he allowed his children not only to remain in error1 but kept them there4 ,it is now admitted that the ,bible is no authority on any question of natural fact2 it is inspired only in morality1 in a spiritual way4 ,all1 except the ,brooklyn ministers1 see that the ,bible has ceased to be regarded as authority4 ,nobody appeals to a passage to settle a dispute of fact4 ,the most intellectual men of the world laugh at the idea of inspiration4 ,men of the greatest reputations hold all supernaturalism in contempt4 ,millions of people are reading the opinions of men who combat and deny the foundation of orthodox ,christianity4 ,humboldt stands higher than all the apostles4 ,darwin has done more to change human thought than all the priests who have existed4 ,where there was one infidel twenty-five years ago1 there are one hundred now4 ,i can remember when ,i would be the only infidel in the town4 ,now ,i meet them thick as autumn leaves2 they are everywhere4 ,in all the professions1 trades1 and employments1 the orthodox creeds are despised4 ,they are not simply disbelieved2 they are execrated4 ,they are regarded1 not with indifference1 but with passionate hatred4 ,thousands and hundreds of thousands of mechanics in this country abhor orthodox ,christianity4 ,millions of educated men hold in immeasurable contempt the doctrine of eternal punishment4 ,the doctrine of atonement is regarded as absurd by millions4 ,so with the dogma of imputed guilt1 vicarious virtue1 and vicarious vice4 ,i see that the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,eddy advises ministers not to answer the arguments of infidels in the pulpit1 and gives this wonderful reason3 ,that the hearers will get more doubts from the answer than from reading the original arguments4 ,so the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,hawkins admits that he cannot defend ,christianity from infidel attacks without creating more infidelity4 ,so the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,haynes admits that he cannot answer the theories of ,robertson ,smith in popular addresses4 ,the only minister who feels absolutely safe on this subject1 so far as his congregation is concerned1 seems to be the ,rev4 ,joseph ,pullman4 ,he declares that the young people in his church don't know enough to have intelligent doubts1 and that the old people are substantially in the same condition4 ,mr4 ,pullman feels that he is behind a breastwork so strong that other defence is unnecessary4 ,so the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,foote thinks that infidelity should never be refuted in the pulpit4 ,i admit that it never has been successfully done1 but ,i did not suppose so many ministers admitted the impossibility4 ,mr4 ,foote is opposed to all public discussion4 ,dr4 ,wells tells us that scientific atheism should be ignored2 that it should not be spoken of in the pulpit4 ,the ,rev1 ,dr4 ,van ,dyke has the same feeling of security enjoyed by ,dr4 ,pullman1 and he declares that the great majority of the ,christian people of to-day know nothing about current infidel theories4 ,his idea is to let them remain in ignorance2 that it would be dangerous for the ,christian minister even to state the position of the infidel2 that1 after stating it1 he might not1 even with the help of ,god1 successfully combat the theory4 ,these ministers do not agree4 ,dr4 ,carpenter accounts for infidelity by nicotine in the blood4 ,it is all smoke4 ,he thinks the blood of the human family has deteriorated4 ,he thinks that the church is safe because the ,christians read4 ,he differs with his brothers ,pullman and ,van ,dyke4 ,so the ,rev4 ,george ,e4 ,reed believes that infidelity should be discussed in the pulpit4 ,he has more confidence in his general and in the weapons of his warfare than some of his brethren4 ,his confidence may arise from the fact that he has never had a discussion4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,mc,clelland thinks the remedy is to stick by the catechism2 that there is not now enough of authority2 not enough of the brute force2 thinks that the family1 the church1 and the state ought to use the rod2 that the rod is the salvation of the world2 that the rod is a divine institution2 that fathers ought to have it for their children2 that mothers ought to use it4 ,this is a part of the religion of universal love4 ,the man who cannot raise children without whipping them ought not to have them4 ,the man who would mar the flesh of a boy or girl is unfit to have the control of a human being4 ,the father who keeps a rod in his house keeps a relic of barbarism in his heart4 ,there is nothing reformatory in punishment2 nothing reformatory in fear4 ,kindness1 guided by intelligence1 is the only reforming force4 ,an appeal to brute force is an abandonment of love and reason1 and puts father and child upon a savage equality2 the savageness in the heart of the father prompting the use of the rod or club1 produces a like savageness in the victim2 ,the old idea that a child's spirit must be broken is infamous4 ,all this is passing away1 however1 with orthodox ,christianity4 ,that children are treated better than formerly shows conclusively the increase of what is called infidelity4 ,infidelity has always been a protest against tyranny in the state1 against intolerance in the church1 against barbarism in the family4 ,it has always been an appeal for light1 for justice1 for universal kindness and tenderness4 ,question4 ,the ministers say1 ,i believe1 ,colonel1 that worldliness is the greatest foe to the church1 and admit that it is on the increase8 ,answer4 ,i see that all the ministers you have interviewed regard worldliness as the great enemy of the church4 ,what is worldliness8 ,i suppose worldliness consists in paying attention to the affairs of this world2 getting enjoyment out of this life2 gratifying the senses1 giving the ears music1 the eyes painting and sculpture1 the palate good food2 cultivating the imagination2 playing games of chance2 adorning the person2 developing the body2 enriching the mind2 investigating the facts by which we are surrounded2 building homes2 rocking cradles2 thinking2 working2 inventing2 buying2 selling2 hoping--all this1 ,i suppose1 is worldliness4 ,these worldly people have cleared the forests1 plowed the land1 built the cities1 the steamships1 the telegraphs1 and have produced all there is of worth and wonder in the world4 ,yet the preachers denounce them4 ,were it not for worldly people how would the preachers get along8 ,who would build the churches8 ,who would fill the contribution boxes and plates1 and who 7most serious of all questions7 would pay the salaries8 ,it is the habit of the ministers to belittle men who support them--to slander the spirit by which they live4 ,it is as though the mouth should tear the hand that feeds it4 ,the nobility of the ,old ,world hold the honest workingman in contempt1 and yet are so contemptible themselves that they are willing to live upon his labor4 ,and so the minister pretending to be spiritual--pretending to be a spiritual guide--looks with contempt upon the men who make it possible for him to live4 ,it may be said by worldliness they only mean enjoyment--that is1 hearing music1 going to the theater and the opera1 taking a ,sunday excursion to the silvery margin of the sea4 ,of course1 ministers look upon theaters as rival attractions1 and most of their hatred is born of business views4 ,they think people ought to be driven to church by having all other places closed4 ,in my judgment the theater has done good1 while the church has done harm4 ,the drama never has insisted upon burning anybody4 ,persecution is not born of the stage4 ,on the contrary1 upon the stage have forever been found impersonations of patriotism1 heroism1 courage1 fortitude1 and justice1 and these impersonations have always been applauded1 and have been represented that they might be applauded4 ,in the pulpit1 hypocrites have been worshiped2 upon the stage they have been held up to derision and execration4 ,shakespeare has done far more for the world than the ,bible4 ,the ministers keep talking about spirituality as opposed to worldliness4 ,nothing can be more absurd than this talk of spirituality4 ,as though readers of the ,bible1 repeaters of texts1 and sayers of prayers were engaged in a higher work than honest industry4 ,is there anything higher than human love8 ,a man is in love with a girl1 and he has determined to work for her and to give his life that she may have a life of joy4 ,is there anything more spiritual than that--anything higher8 ,they marry4 ,he clears some land4 ,he fences a field4 ,he builds a cabin2 and she1 of this hovel1 makes a happy home4 ,she plants flowers1 puts a few simple things of beauty upon the walls4 ,this is what the preachers call worldliness4 ,is there anything more spiritual8 ,in a little while1 in this cabin1 in this home1 is heard the drowsy rhythm of the cradle's rock1 while softly floats the lullaby upon the twilight air4 ,is there anything more spiritual1 is there anything more infinitely tender than to see husband and wife bending1 with clasped hands1 over a cradle1 gazing upon the dimpled miracle of love8 ,i say it is spiritual to work for those you love2 spiritual to improve the physical condition of mankind--for he who improves the physical condition improves the mental4 ,i believe in the plowers instead of the prayers4 ,i believe in the new firm of ,health ,heresy rather than the old partnership of ,disease ,divinity1 doing business at the old sign of the ,skull ,crossbones4 ,some of the ministers that you have interviewed1 or at least one of them1 tells us the cure for worldliness4 ,he says that ,god is sending fires1 and cyclones1 and things of that character for the purpose of making people spiritual2 of calling their attention to the fact that everything in this world is of a transitory nature4 ,the clergy have always had great faith in famine1 in affliction1 in pestilence4 ,they know that a man is a thousand times more apt to thank ,god for a crust or a crumb than for a banquet4 ,they know that prosperity has the same effect on the average ,christian that thick soup has1 according to ,bumble1 on the ,english pauper3 ,it makes 'em impudent4 ,the devil made a mistake in not doubling ,job's property instead of leaving him a pauper4 ,in prosperity the ministers think that we forget death and are too happy4 ,in the arms of those we love1 the dogma of eternal fire is for the moment forgotten4 ,according to the ministers1 ,god kills our children in order that we may not forget him4 ,they imagine that the man who goes into ,dakota1 cultivates the soil and rears him a little home1 is getting too worldly4 ,and so ,god starts a cyclone to scatter his home and the limbs of wife and children upon the desolate plains1 and the ministers in ,brooklyn say this is done because we are getting too worldly4 ,they think we should be more spiritual2 that is to say1 willing to live upon the labor of others2 willing to ask alms1 saying1 in the meantime1 ,it is more blessed to give than to receive4 ,if this is so1 why not give the money back8 ,spiritual people are those who eat oatmeal and prunes1 have great confidence in dried apples1 read ,cowper's ,task and ,pollok's ,course of ,time1 laugh at the jokes in ,harper's ,monthly1 wear clothes shiny at the knees and elbows1 and call all that has elevated the world beggarly elements4 ,question4 ,some of the clergymen who have been interviewed admit that the rich and poor no longer meet together1 and deprecate the establishment of mission chapels in connection with the large and fashionable churches4 ,answer4 ,the early ,christians supposed that the end of the world was at hand4 ,they were all sitting on the dock waiting for the ship4 ,in the presence of such a belief what are known as class distinctions could not easily exist4 ,most of them were exceedingly poor1 and poverty is a bond of union4 ,as a rule1 people are hospitable in the proportion that they lack wealth4 ,in old times1 in the ,west1 a stranger was always welcome4 ,he took in part the place of the newspaper4 ,he was a messenger from the older parts of the country4 ,life was monotonous4 ,the appearance of the traveler gave variety4 ,as people grow wealthy they grow exclusive4 ,as they become educated there is a tendency to pick their society4 ,it is the same in the church4 ,the church no longer believes the creed1 no longer acts as though the creed were true4 ,if the rich man regarded the sermon as a means of grace1 as a kind of rope thrown by the minister to a man just above the falls2 if he regarded it as a lifeboat1 or as a lighthouse1 he would not allow his coachman to remain outside4 ,if he really believed that the coachman had an immortal soul1 capable of eternal joy1 liable to everlasting pain1 he would do his utmost to make the calling and election of the said coachman sure4 ,as a matter of fact the rich man now cares but little for servants4 ,they are not included in the scheme of salvation1 except as a kind of job lot4 ,the church has become a club4 ,it is a social affair1 and the rich do not care to associate in the week days with the poor they may happen to meet at church4 ,as they expect to be in heaven together forever1 they can afford to be separated here4 ,there will certainly be time enough there to get acquainted4 ,another thing is the magnificence of the churches4 ,the church depends absolutely upon the rich4 ,poor people feel out of place in such magnificent buildings4 ,they drop into the nearest seat2 like poor relations1 they sit on the extreme edge of the chair4 ,at the table of ,christ they are below the salt4 ,they are constantly humiliated4 ,when subscriptions are asked for they feel ashamed to have their mite compared with the thousands given by the millionaire4 ,the pennies feel ashamed to mingle with the silver in the contribution plate4 ,the result is that most of them avoid the church4 ,it costs too much to worship ,god in public4 ,good clothes are necessary1 fashionably cut4 ,the poor come in contact with too much silk1 too many jewels1 too many evidences of what is generally assumed to be superiority4 ,question4 ,would this state of affairs be remedied if1 instead of churches1 we had societies of ethical culture8 ,would not the rich there predominate and the poor be just as much out of place8 ,answer4 ,i think the effect would be precisely the same1 no matter what the society is1 what object it has1 if composed of rich and poor4 ,class distinctions1 to a greater or less extent1 will creep in--in fact1 they do not have to creep in4 ,they are there at the commencement1 and they are born of the different conditions of the members4 ,these class distinctions are not always made by men of wealth4 ,for instance1 some men obtain money1 and are what we call snobs4 ,others obtain it and retain their democratic principles1 and meet men according to the law of affinity1 or general intelligence1 on intellectual grounds1 for instance4 ,there is not only the distinction produced by wealth and power1 but there are the distinctions born of intelligence1 of culture1 of character1 of end1 object1 aim in life4 ,no one can blame an honest mechanic for holding a wealthy snob in utter contempt4 ,neither can any one blame respectable poverty for declining to associate with arrogant wealth4 ,the right to make the distinction is with all classes1 and with the individuals of all classes4 ,it is impossible to have any society for any purpose--that is1 where they meet together--without certain embarrassments being produced by these distinctions4 ,nowt for instance1 suppose there should be a society simply of intelligent and cultured people4 ,there1 wealth1 to a great degree1 would be disregarded4 ,but1 after all1 the distinction that intelligence draws between talent and genius is as marked and cruel as was ever drawn between poverty and wealth4 ,wherever the accomplishment of some object is deemed of such vast importance that1 for the moment1 all minor distinctions are forgotten1 then it is possible for the rich and poor1 the ignorant and intelligent1 to act in concert4 ,this happens in political parties1 in time of war1 and it has also happened whenever a new religion has been founded4 ,whenever the rich wish the assistance of the poor1 distinctions are forgotten4 ,it is upon the same principle that we gave liberty to the slave during the ,civil war1 and clad him in the uniform of the nation2 we wanted him1 we needed him2 and1 for the time1 we were perfectly willing to forget the distinction of color4 ,common peril produces pure democracy4 ,it is with societies as with individuals4 ,a poor young man coming to ,new ,york1 bent upon making his fortune1 begins to talk about the old fogies2 holds in contempt many of the rules and regulations of the trade2 is loud in his denunciation of monopoly2 wants competition2 shouts for fair play1 and is a real democrat4 ,but let him succeed2 let him have a palace in ,fifth ,avenue1 with his monogram on spoons and coaches2 then1 instead of shouting for liberty1 he will call for more police4 ,he will then say3 ,we want protection2 the rabble must be put down4 ,we have an aristocracy of wealth4 ,in some parts of our country an aristocracy of literature--men and women who imagine themselves writers and who hold in contempt all people who cannot express commonplaces in the most elegant diction--people who look upon a mistake in grammar as far worse than a crime4 ,so1 in some communities we have an aristocracy of muscle4 ,the only true aristocracy1 probably1 is that of kindness4 ,intellect1 without heart1 is infinitely cruel2 as cruel as wealth without a sense of justice2 as cruel as muscle without mercy4 ,so that1 after all1 the real aristocracy must be that of goodness where the intellect is directed by the heart4 ,question4 ,you say that the aristocracy of intellect is quite as cruel as the aristocracy of wealth--what do you mean by that8 ,answer4 ,by intellect1 ,i mean simply intellect2 that is to say1 the aristocracy of education--of simple brain--expressed in innumerable ways--in invention1 painting1 sculpture1 literature4 ,and ,i meant to say that that aristocracy was as cruel as that of simple arrogant wealth4 ,after all1 why should a man be proud of something given him by nature--something that he did not earn1 did not produce--something that he could not help8 ,is it not more reasonable to be proud of wealth which you have accumulated than of brain which nature gave you8 ,and1 to carry this idea clearly out1 why should we be proud of anything8 ,is there any proper occasion on which to crow8 ,if you succeed1 your success crows for you2 if you fail1 certainly crowing is not in the best of taste4 ,and why should a man be proud of brain8 ,why should he be proud of disposition or of good acts8 ,question4 ,you speak of the cruelty of the intellect1 and yet1 of course1 you must recognize the right of every one to select his own companions4 ,would it be arrogant for the intellectual man to prefer the companionship of people of his own class in preference to commonplace and unintelligent persons8 ,answer4 ,all men should have the same rights1 and one right that every man should have is to associate with congenial people4 ,there are thousands of good men whose society ,i do not covet4 ,they may be stupid1 or they may be stupid only in the direction in which ,i am interested1 and may be exceedingly intelligent as to matters about which ,i care nothing4 ,in either case they are not congenial4 ,they have the right to select congenial company2 so have ,i4 ,and while distinctions are thus made1 they are not cruel2 they are not heartless4 ,they are for the good of all concerned1 spring naturally from the circumstances1 and are consistent with the highest philanthropy4 ,why we notice these distinctions in the church more than we do in the club is that the church talks one way and acts another2 because the church insists that a certain line of conduct is essential to salvation1 and that every human being is in danger of eternal pain4 ,if the creed were true1 then1 in the presence of such an infinite verity1 all earthly distinctions should instantly vanish4 ,every ,christian should exert himself for the salvation of the soul of a beggar with the same degree of earnestness that he would show to save a king4 ,the accidents of wealth1 education1 social position1 should be esteemed as naught1 and the richest should gladly work side by side with the poorest4 ,the churches will never reach the poor as long as they sell pews2 as long as the rich members wear their best clothes on ,sunday4 ,as long as the fashions of the drawing-room are taken to the table of the last supper1 the poor will remain in the highways and hedges4 ,present fashion is more powerful than faith4 ,so long as the ministers shut up their churches1 and allow the poor to go to hell in summer2 as long as they leave the devil without a competitor for three months in the year1 the churches will not materially impede the march of human progress4 ,people often1 unconsciously and without any malice1 say something or do something that throws an unexpected light upon a question4 ,the other day1 in one of the ,new ,york comic papers1 there was a picture representing the foremost preachers of the country at the seaside together4 ,it was regarded as a joke that they could enjoy each others society4 ,these ministers are supposed to be the apostles of the religion of kindness4 ,they tell us to love even our enemies1 and yet the idea that they could associate happily together is regarded as a joke6 ,after all1 churches are like other institutions1 they have to be managed1 and they now rely upon music and upon elocution rather than upon the gospel4 ,they are becoming social affairs4 ,they are giving up the doctrine of eternal punishment1 and have consequently lost their hold4 ,the orthodox churches used to tell us there was to be a fire1 and they offered to insure2 and as long as the fire was expected the premiums were paid and the policies were issued4 ,then came the ,universalist ,church1 saying that there would be no fire1 and yet asking the people to insure4 ,for such a church there is no basis4 ,it undoubtedly did good by its influence upon other churches4 ,so with the ,unitarian4 ,that church has no basis for organization2 no reason1 because no hell is threatened1 and heaven is but faintly promised4 ,just as the churches have lost their belief in eternal fire1 they have lost their influence1 and the reason they have lost their belief is on account of the diffusion of knowledge4 ,that doctrine is becoming absurd and infamous4 ,intelligent people are ashamed to broach it4 ,intelligent people can no longer believe it4 ,it is regarded with horror1 and the churches must finally abandon it1 and when they do1 that is the end of the church militant4 ,question4 ,what do you say to the progress of the ,roman ,catholic ,church1 in view of the fact that they have not changed their belief1 in any particular1 in regard to future punishment8 ,answer4 ,neither ,catholicism nor ,protestantism will ever win another battle4 ,the last victory of ,protestantism was won in ,holland4 ,nations have not been converted since then4 ,the time has passed to preach with sword and gun1 and for that reason ,catholicism can win no more victories4 ,that church increases in this country mostly from immigration4 ,catholicism does not belong to the ,new ,world4 ,it is at war with the idea of our ,government1 antagonistic to true republicanism1 and is in every sense anti-,american4 ,the ,catholic ,church does not control its members4 ,that church prevents no crime4 ,it is not in favor of education4 ,it is not the friend of liberty4 ,in ,europe it is now used as a political power1 but here it dare not assert itself4 ,there are thousands of good ,catholics4 ,as a rule they probably believe the creed of the church4 ,that church has lost the power to anathematize4 ,it can no longer burn4 ,it must now depend upon other forces--upon persuasion1 sophistry1 ignorance1 fear1 and heredity4 ,question4 ,you have stated your objections to the churches1 what would you have to take their place8 ,answer4 ,there was a time when men had to meet together for the purpose of being told the law4 ,this was before printing1 and for hundreds and hundreds of years most people depended for their information on what they heard4 ,the ear was the avenue to the brain4 ,there was a time1 of course1 when ,freemasonry was necessary1 so that a man could carry1 not only all over his own country1 but to another1 a certificate that he was a gentleman2 that he was an honest man4 ,there was a time1 and it was necessary1 for the people to assemble4 ,they had no books1 no papers1 no way of reaching each other4 ,but now all that is changed4 ,the daily press gives you the happenings of the world4 ,the libraries give you the thoughts of the greatest and best4 ,every man of moderate means can command the principal sources of information4 ,there is no necessity for going to the church and hearing the same story forever4 ,let the minister write what he wishes to say4 ,let him publish it4 ,if it is worth buying1 people will read it4 ,it is hardly fair to get them in a church in the name of duty and there inflict upon them a sermon that under no circumstances they would read4 ,of course1 there will always be meetings1 occasions when people come together to exchange ideas1 to hear what a man has to say upon some questions1 but the idea of going fifty-two days in a year to hear anybody on the same subject is absurd4 ,question4 ,would you include a man like ,henry ,ward ,beecher in that statement8 ,answer4 ,beecher is interesting just in proportion that he is not orthodox1 and he is altogether more interesting when talking against his creed4 ,he delivered a sermon the other day in ,chicago1 in which he takes the ground that ,christianity is kindness1 and that1 consequently1 no one could be an infidel4 ,every one believes in kindness1 at least theoretically4 ,in that sermon he throws away all creed1 and comes to the conclusion that ,christianity is a life1 not an aggregation of intellectual convictions upon certain subjects4 ,the more sermons like that are preached1 probably the better4 ,what ,i intended was the eternal repetition of the old story3 ,that ,god made the world and a man1 and then allowed the devil to tempt him1 and then thought of a scheme of salvation1 of vicarious atonement1 #aejj years afterwards2 drowned everybody except ,noah and his family1 and afterward1 when he failed to civilize the ,jewish people1 came in person and suffered death1 and announced the doctrine that all who believed on him would be saved1 and those who did not1 eternally lost4 ,now1 this story1 with occasional references to the patriarchs and the ,new ,jerusalem1 and the exceeding heat of perdition1 and the wonderful joys of ,paradise1 is the average sermon1 and this story is told again1 again1 and again1 by the same men1 listened to by the same people without any effect except to tire the speaker and the hearer4 ,if all the ministers would take their texts from ,shakespeare2 if they would read every ,sunday a selection from some of the great plays1 the result would be infinitely better4 ,they would all learn something2 the mind would be enlarged1 and the sermon would appear short4 ,nothing has shown more clearly the intellectual barrenness of the pulpit than baccalaureate sermons lately delivered4 ,the dignified dullness1 the solemn stupidity of these addresses has never been excelled4 ,no question was met4 ,the poor candidates for the ministry were given no new weapons4 ,armed with the theological flintlock of a century ago1 they were ordered to do battle for doctrines older than their weapons4 ,they were told to rely on prayer1 to answer all arguments by keeping out of discussions1 and to overwhelm the skeptic by ignoring the facts4 ,there was a time when the ,protestant clergy were in favor of education2 that is to say1 education enough to make a ,catholic a ,protestant1 but not enough to make a ,protestant a philosopher4 ,the ,catholics are also in favor of education enough to make a savage a ,catholic1 and there they stop4 ,the ,christian should never unsettle his belief4 ,if he studies1 if he reads1 he is in danger4 ,a new idea is a doubt2 a doubt is the threshold of infidelity4 ,the young ministers are warned against inquiry4 ,they are educated like robins2 they swallow whatever is thrown in the mouth1 worms or shingle-nails1 it makes no difference1 and they are expected to get their revenge by treating their flocks precisely as the professors treated them4 ,the creeds of the churches are being laughed at4 ,thousands of young men say nothing1 because they do not wish to hurt the feelings of mothers and maiden aunts4 ,thousands of business men say nothing1 for fear it may interfere with trade4 ,politicians keep quiet for fear of losing influence4 ,but when you get at the real opinions of people1 a vast majority have outgrown the doctrines of orthodox ,christianity4 ,some people think these things good for women and children1 and use the ,lord as an immense policeman to keep order4 ,every day ministers are uttering a declaration of independence4 ,they are being examined by synods and committees of ministers1 and they are beginning everywhere to say that they do not regard this life as a probationary stage2 that the doctrine of eternal punishment is too bad2 that the ,bible is1 in many things1 foolish1 absurd1 and infamous2 that it must have been written by men4 ,and the people at large are beginning to find that the ministers have kept back the facts2 have not told the history of the ,bible2 have not given to their congregations the latest advices1 and so the feeling is becoming almost general that orthodox ,christianity has outlived its usefulness4 ,the church has a great deal to contend with4 ,the scientific men are not religious4 ,geology laughs at ,genesis1 and astronomy has concluded that ,joshua knew but very little of the motions of heavenly bodies4 ,statesmen do not approve of the laws of ,moses2 the intellect of the world is on the other side4 ,there is something besides preaching on ,sunday4 ,the newspaper is the rival of the pulpit4 ,nearly all the cars are running on that blessed day4 ,steamers take hundreds of thousands of excursionists4 ,the man who has been at work all the week seeks the sight of the sea1 and this has become so universal that the preacher is following his example4 ,the flock has ceased to be afraid of the wolf1 and the shepherd deserts the sheep4 ,in a little while all the libraries will be open--all the museums4 ,there will be music in the public parks2 the opera1 the theater4 ,and what will churches do then8 ,the cardinal points will be demonstrated to empty pews1 unless the church is wise enough to meet the intellectual demands of the present4 ,question4 ,you speak as if the influences working against ,christianity to-day will tend to crush it out of existence4 ,do you think that ,christianity is any worse off now than it was during the ,french ,revolution1 when the priests were banished from the country and reason was worshiped2 or in ,england1 a hundred years ago1 when ,hume1 ,bolingbroke1 and others made their attacks upon it8 ,answer4 ,you must remember that the ,french ,revolution was produced by ,catholicism2 that it was a reaction2 that it went to infinite extremes2 that it was a revolution seeking revenge4 ,it is not hard to understand those times1 provided you know the history of the ,catholic ,church4 ,the seeds of the ,french ,revolution were sown by priests and kings4 ,the people had suffered the miseries of slavery for a thousand years1 and the ,french ,revolution came because human nature could bear the wrongs no longer4 ,it was something not reasoned2 it was felt4 ,only a few acted from intellectual convictions4 ,the most were stung to madness1 and were carried away with the desire to destroy4 ,they wanted to shed blood1 to tear down palaces1 to cut throats1 and in some way avenge the wrongs of all the centuries4 ,catholicism has never recovered--it never will4 ,the dagger of ,voltaire struck the heart2 the wound was mortal4 ,catholicism has staggered from that day to this4 ,it has been losing power every moment4 ,at the death of ,voltaire there were twenty millions less ,catholics than when he was born4 ,in the ,french ,revolution muscle outran mind2 revenge anticipated reason4 ,there was destruction without the genius of construction4 ,they had to use materials that had been rendered worthless by ages of ,catholicism4 ,the ,french ,revolution was a failure because the ,french people were a failure1 and the ,french people were a failure because ,catholicism had made them so4 ,the ministers attack ,voltaire without reading him4 ,probably there are not a dozen orthodox ministers in the world who have read the works of ,voltaire4 ,i know of no one who has4 ,only a little while ago1 a minister told me he had read ,voltaire4 ,i offered him one hundred dollars to repeat a paragraph1 or to give the title1 even1 of one of ,voltaire's volumes4 ,most ministers think he was an atheist4 ,the trouble with the infidels in ,england a hundred years ago was that they did not go far enough4 ,it may be that they could not have gone further and been allowed to live4 ,most of them took the ground that there was an infinite1 all-wise1 beneficent ,god1 creator of the universe1 and that this all-wise1 beneficent ,god certainly was too good to be the author of the ,bible4 ,they1 however1 insisted that this good ,god was the author of nature1 and the theologians completely turned the tables by showing that this god of nature was in the pestilence and plague business1 manufactured earthquakes1 overwhelmed towns and cities1 and was1 of necessity1 the author of all pain and agony4 ,in my judgment1 the ,deists were all successfully answered4 ,the god of nature is certainly as bad as the ,god of the ,old ,testament4 ,it is only when we discard the idea of a deity1 the idea of cruelty or goodness in nature1 that we are able ever to bear with patience the ills of life4 ,i feel that ,i am neither a favorite nor a victim4 ,nature neither loves nor hates me4 ,i do not believe in the existence of any personal god4 ,i regard the universe as the one fact1 as the one existence--that is1 as the absolute thing4 ,i am a part of this4 ,i do not say that there is no ,god2 ,i simply say that ,i do not believe there is4 ,there may be millions of them4 ,neither do ,i say that man is not immortal4 ,upon that point ,i admit that ,i do not know1 and the declarations of all the priests in the world upon that subject give me no light1 and do not even tend to add to my information on the subject1 because ,i know that they know that they do not know4 ,the infidelity of a hundred years ago knew nothing1 comparatively speaking1 of geology2 nothing of astronomy2 nothing of the ideas of ,lamarck and ,darwin2 nothing of evolution2 nothing1 comparatively speaking1 of other religions2 nothing of ,india1 that womb of metaphysics2 in other words1 the infidels of a hundred years ago knew the creed of orthodox ,christianity to be false1 but had not the facts to demonstrate it4 ,the infidels of to-day have the facts2 that is the difference4 ,a hundred years ago it was a guessing prophecy2 to-day it is the fact and fulfillment4 ,everything in nature is working against superstition to-day4 ,superstition is like a thorn in the flesh1 and everything1 from dust to stars1 is working together to destroy the false4 ,the smallest pebble answers the greatest parson4 ,one blade of grass1 rightly understood1 destroys the orthodox creed4 ,question4 ,you say that the pews will be empty in the future unless the church meets the intellectual demands of the present4 ,are not the ministers of to-day1 generally speaking1 much more intellectual than those of a hundred years ago1 and are not the liberal views in regard to the inspiration of the ,bible1 the atonement1 future punishment1 the fall of man1 and the personal divinity of ,christ which openly prevail in many churches1 an indication that the church is meeting the demands of many people who do not care to be classed as out-and-out disbelievers in ,christianity1 but who have advanced views on those and other questions8 ,answer4 ,as to the first part of this question1 ,i do not think the ministers of to-day are more intellectual than they were a hundred years ago2 that is1 ,i do not think they have greater brain capacity1 but ,i think on the average1 the congregations have a higher amount4 ,the amelioration of orthodox ,christianity is not by the intelligence in the pulpit1 but by the brain in the pews4 ,another thing3 ,one hundred years ago the church had intellectual honors to bestow4 ,the pulpit opened a career4 ,not so now4 ,there are too many avenues to distinction and wealth--too much worldliness4 ,the best minds do not go into the pulpit4 ,martyrs had rather be burned than laughed at4 ,most ministers of to-day are not naturally adapted to other professions promising eminence4 ,there are some great exceptions1 but those exceptions are the ministers nearest infidels4 ,theodore ,parker was a great man4 ,henry ,ward ,beecher is a great man--not the most consistent man in the world--but he is certainly a man of mark1 a remarkable genius4 ,if he could only get rid of the idea that ,plymouth ,church is necessary to him--after that time he would not utter an orthodox word4 ,chapin was a man of mind4 ,i might mention some others1 but1 as a rule1 the pulpit is not remarkable for intelligence4 ,the intelligent men of the world do not believe in orthodox ,christianity4 ,it is to-day a symptom of intellectual decay4 ,the conservative ministers are the stupid ones4 ,the conservative professors are those upon whose ideas will be found the centuries' moss1 old red sandstone theories1 pre-historic silurian4 ,now1 as to the second part of the question3 ,the views of the church are changing1 the clergy of ,brooklyn to the contrary1 notwithstanding4 ,orthodox religion is a kind of boa-constrictor2 anything it can not dodge it will swallow4 ,the church is bound to have something for sale that somebody wants to buy4 ,according to the pew demand will be the pulpit supply4 ,in old times the pulpit dictated to the pews4 ,things have changed4 ,theology is now run on business principles4 ,the gentleman who pays for the theories insists on having them suit him4 ,ministers are intellectual gardeners1 and they must supply the market with such religious vegetables as the congregations desire4 ,thousands have given up belief in the inspiration of the ,bible1 the divinity of ,christ1 the atonement idea and original sin4 ,millions believe now1 that this is not a state of probation2 that a man1 provided he is well off and has given liberally to the church1 or whose wife has been a regular attendant1 will1 in the next world1 have another chance2 that he will be permitted to file a motion for a new trial4 ,others think that hell is not as warm as it used to be supposed2 that1 while it is very hot in the middle of the day1 the nights are cool2 and that1 after all1 there is not so much to fear from the future4 ,they regard the old religion as very good for the poor1 and they give them the old ideas on the same principle that they give them their old clothes4 ,these ideas1 out at the elbows1 out at the knees1 buttons off1 somewhat raveled1 will1 after all1 do very well for paupers4 ,there is a great trade of this kind going on now--selling old theological clothes to the colored people in the ,south4 ,all ,i have said applies to all churches4 ,the ,catholic ,church changes every day4 ,it does not change its ceremonies2 but the spirit that begot the ceremonies1 the spirit that clothed the skeleton of ceremony with the flesh and blood and throb of life and love1 is gone4 ,the spirit that built the cathedrals1 the spirit that emptied the wealth of the world into the lap of ,rome1 has turned in another direction4 ,of course1 the churches are all going to endeavor to meet the demands of the hour4 ,they will find new readings for old texts4 ,they will re-punctuate and re-parse the ,old ,testament4 ,they will find that flat meant a little rounding2 that six days meant six long times2 that the word flood should have been translated dampness1 dew1 or threatened rain2 that ,daniel in the lion's den was an historical myth2 that ,samson and his foxes had nothing to do with this world4 ,all these things will be gradually explained and made to harmonize with the facts of modern science4 ,they will not change the words of the creed2 they will simply give new meanings and the highest criticism to-day is that which confesses and avoids4 ,in other words1 the churches will change as the people change4 ,they will keep for sale that which can be sold4 ,already the old goods are being marked down4 ,if1 however1 the church should fail1 why then it must go4 ,i see no reason1 myself1 for its existence4 ,it apparently does no good2 it devours without producing2 it eats without planting1 and is a perpetual burden4 ,it teaches nothing of value4 ,it misleads1 mystifies1 and misrepresents4 ,it threatens without knowledge and promises without power4 ,in my judgment1 the quicker it goes the better for all mankind4 ,but if it does not go in name1 it must go in fact1 because it must change2 and1 therefore1 it is only a question of time when it ceases to divert from useful channels the blood and muscle of the world4 ,question4 ,you say that in the baccalaureate sermons delivered lately the theological students were told to answer arguments by keeping out of discussion4 ,is it not the fact that ministers have of late years preached very largely on scientific disbelief1 agnosticism1 and infidelity1 so much so as to lead to their being reprimanded by some of their more conservative brethren8 ,answer4 ,of course there are hundreds of thousands of ministers perpetually endeavoring to answer infidelity4 ,their answers have done so much harm that the more conservative among the clergy have advised them to stop4 ,thousands have answered me1 and their answers1 for the most part1 are like this3 ,paine was a blackguard1 therefore the geology of ,genesis is on a scientific basis4 ,we know the doctrine of the atonement is true1 because in the ,french ,revolution they worshiped reason4 ,and we know1 too1 all about the fall of man and the ,garden of ,eden because ,voltaire was nearly frightened to death when he came to die4 ,these are the usual arguments1 supplemented by a few words concerning myself4 ,and1 in my view1 they are the best that can be made4 ,failing to answer a man's argument1 the next best thing is to attack his character4 ,you have no case1 said an attorney to the plaintiff4 ,no matter1 said the plaintiff1 ,i want you to give the defendant the devil4 ,question4 ,what have you to say to the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,baker's statement that he generally buys five or six tickets for your lectures and gives them to young men1 who are shocked at the flippant way in which you are said to speak of the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,well1 as to that1 ,i have always wondered why ,i had such immense audiences in ,brooklyn and ,new ,york4 ,this tends to clear away the mystery4 ,if all the clergy follow the example of ,dr4 ,baker1 that accounts for the number seeking admission4 ,of course1 ,dr4 ,baker would not misrepresent a thing like that1 and ,i shall always feel greatly indebted to him1 shall hereafter regard him as one of my agents1 and take this occasion to return my thanks4 ,he is certainly welcome to all the converts to ,christianity made by hearing me4 ,still1 ,i hardly think it honest in young men to play a game like that on the doctor4 ,question4 ,you speak of the eternal repetition of the old story of ,christianity and say that the more sermons like the one ,mr4 ,beecher preached lately the better4 ,is it not the fact that ministers1 at the present time1 do preach very largely on questions of purely moral1 social1 and humanitarian interest1 so much so1 indeed1 as to provoke criticism on the part of the secular newspaper press8 ,answer4 ,i admit that there is a general tendency in the pulpit to preach about things happening in this world2 in other words1 that the preachers themselves are beginning to be touched with worldliness4 ,they find that the ,new ,jerusalem has no particular interest for persons dealing in real estate in this world4 ,and thousands of people are losing interest in ,abraham1 in ,david1 ,haggai1 and take more interest in gentlemen who have the cheerful habit of living4 ,they also find that their readers do not wish to be reminded perpetually of death and coffins2 and worms and dust and gravestones and shrouds and epitaphs and hearses1 biers1 and cheerful subjects of that character4 ,that they prefer to hear the minister speak about a topic in which they have a present interest1 and about which something cheerful can be said4 ,in fact1 it is a relief to hear about politics1 a little about art1 something about stocks or the crops1 and most ministers find it necessary to advertise that they are going to speak on something that has happened within the last eighteen hundred years1 and that1 for the time being1 ,shadrach1 ,meshech1 and ,abednego will be left in the furnace4 ,of course1 ,i think that most ministers are reasonably honest4 ,maybe they don't tell all their doubts1 but undoubtedly they are endeavoring to make the world better1 and most of the church members think that they are doing the best that can be done4 ,i am not criticising their motives1 but their methods4 ,i am not attacking the character or reputation of ministers1 but simply giving my ideas1 avoiding anything personal4 ,i do not pretend to be very good1 nor very bad---just fair to middling4 ,question4 ,you say that ,christians will not read for fear that they will unsettle their belief4 ,father ,fransiola 7,roman ,catholic7 said in the interview ,i had with him3 ,if you do not allow man to reason you crush his manhood4 ,therefore1 he has to reason upon the credibility of his faith1 and through reason1 guided by faith1 he discovers the truth1 and so satisfies his wants4 ,answer4 ,without calling in question the perfect sincerity of ,father ,fransiola1 ,i think his statement is exactly the wrong end to4 ,i do not think that reason should be guided by faith2 ,i think that faith should be guided by reason4 ,after all1 the highest possible conception of faith would be the science of probabilities1 and the probable must not be based on what has not happened1 but upon what has2 not upon something we know nothing about1 but the nature of the things with which we are acquainted4 ,the foundation we must know something about1 and whenever we reason1 we must have something as a basis1 something secular1 something that we think we know4 ,about these facts we reason1 sometimes by analogy1 and we say thus and so has happened1 therefore thus and so may happen4 ,we do not say thus and so may happen1 therefore something else has happened4 ,we must reason from the known to the unknown1 not from the unknown to the known4 ,this ,father admits that if you do not allow a man to reason you crush his manhood4 ,at the same time he says faith must govern reason4 ,who makes the faith8 ,the church4 ,and the church tells the man that he must take the faith1 reason or no reason1 and that he may afterward reason1 taking the faith as a fact4 ,this makes him an intellectual slave1 and the poor devil mistakes for liberty the right to examine his own chains4 ,these gentlemen endeavor to satisfy their prisoners by insisting that there is nothing beyond the walls4 ,question4 ,you criticise the church for not encouring the poor to mingle with the rich1 and yet you defend the right of a man to choose his own company4 ,are not these same distinctions made by non-confessing ,christians in real life1 and will not there always be some greater1 richer1 wiser1 than the rest8 ,answer4 ,i do not blame the church because there are these distinctions based on wealth1 intelligence1 and culture4 ,what ,i blame the church for is pretending to do away with these distinctions4 ,these distinctions in men are inherent2 differences in brain1 in race1 in blood1 in education1 and they are differences that will eternally exist--that is1 as long as the human race exists4 ,some will be fortunate1 some unfortunate1 some generous1 some stingy1 some rich1 some poor4 ,what ,i wish to do away with is the contempt and scorn and hatred existing between rich and poor4 ,i want the democracy of kindness--what you might call the republicanism of justice4 ,i do not have to associate with a man to keep from robbing him4 ,i can give him his rights without enjoying his company1 and he can give me my rights without inviting me to dinner4 ,why should not poverty have rights8 ,and has not honest poverty the right to hold dishonest wealth in contempt1 and will it not do it1 whether it belongs to the same church or not8 ,we cannot judge men by their wealth1 or by the position they hold in society4 ,i like every kind man2 ,i hate every cruel one4 ,i like the generous1 whether they are poor or rich1 ignorant or cultivated4 ,i like men that love their families1 that are kind to their wives1 gentle with their children1 no matter whether they are millionaires or mendicants4 ,and to me the blossom of benevolence1 of charity1 is the fairest flower1 no matter whether it blooms by the side of a hovel1 or bursts from a vine climbing the marble pillar of a palace4 ,i respect no man because he is rich2 ,i hold in contempt no man because he is poor4 ,question4 ,some of the clergymen say that the spread of infidelity is greatly exaggerated2 that it makes more noise and creates more notice than conservative ,christianity simply on account of its being outside of the accepted line of thought4 ,answer4 ,there was a time when an unbeliever1 open and pronounced1 was a wonder4 ,at that time the church had great power2 it could retaliate2 it could destroy4 ,the church abandoned the stake only when too many men objected to being burned4 ,at that time infidelity was clad not simply in novelty1 but often in fire4 ,of late years the thoughts of men have been turned1 by virtue of modern discoveries1 as the result of countless influences1 to an investigation of the foundation of orthodox religion4 ,other religions were put in the crucible of criticism1 and nothing was found but dross4 ,at last it occurred to the intelligent to examine our own religion1 and this examination has excited great interest and great comment4 ,people want to hear1 and they want to hear because they have already about concluded themselves that the creeds are founded in error4 ,thousands come to hear me because they are interested in the question1 because they want to hear a man say what they think4 ,they want to hear their own ideas from the lips of another4 ,the tide has turned1 and the spirit of investigation1 the intelligence1 the intellectual courage of the world is on the other side4 ,a real good old-fashioned orthodox minister who believes the ,thirty-nine articles with all his might1 is regarded to-day as a theological mummy1 a kind of corpse acted upon by the galvanic battery of faith1 making strange motions1 almost like those of life--not quite4 ,question4 ,how would you convey moral instruction from youth up1 and what kind of instruction would you give8 ,answer4 ,i regard ,christianity as a failure4 ,now1 then1 what is ,christianity8 ,i do not include in the word ,christianity the average morality of the world or the morality taught in all systems of religion2 that is1 as distinctive ,christianity4 ,christianity is this3 ,a belief in the inspiration of the ,scriptures1 the atonement1 the life1 death1 and resurrection of ,christ1 an eternal reward for the believers in ,christ1 and eternal punishment for the rest of us4 ,now1 take from ,christianity its miracles1 its absurdities of the atonement and fall of man and the inspiration of the ,scriptures1 and ,i have no objection to it as ,i understand it4 ,i believe1 in the main1 in the ,christianity which ,i suppose ,christ taught1 that is1 in kindness1 gentleness1 forgiveness4 ,i do not believe in loving enemies2 ,i have pretty hard work to love my friends4 ,neither do ,i believe in revenge4 ,no man can afford to keep the viper of revenge in his heart4 ,but ,i believe in justice1 in self-defence4 ,christianity--that is1 the miraculous part--must be abandoned4 ,as to morality--morality is born1 is born of the instinct of self-preservation4 ,if man could not suffer1 the word conscience never would have passed his lips4 ,self-preservation makes larceny a crime4 ,murder will be regarded as a bad thing as long as a majority object to being murdered4 ,morality does not come from the clouds2 it is born of human want and human experience4 ,we need no inspiration1 no inspired work4 ,the industrious man knows that the idle has no right to rob him of the product of his labor1 and the idle man knows that he has no right to do it4 ,it is not wrong because we find it in the ,bible1 but ,i presume it was put in the ,bible because it is wrong4 ,then1 you find in the ,bible other things upheld that are infamous4 ,and why8 ,because the writers of the ,bible were barbarians1 in many things1 and because that book is a mixture of good and evil4 ,i see no trouble in teaching morality without miracle4 ,i see no use of miracle4 ,what can men do with it8 ,credulity is not a virtue4 ,the credulous are not necessarily charitable4 ,wonder is not the mother of wisdom4 ,i believe children should be taught to investigate and to reason for themselves1 and that there are facts enough to furnish a foundation for all human virtue4 ,we will take two families2 in the one1 the father and mother are both ,christians1 and they teach their children their creed2 teach them that they are naturally totally depraved2 that they can only hope for happiness in a future life by pleading the virtues of another1 and that a certain belief is necessary to salvation2 that ,god punishes his children forever4 ,such a home has a certain atmosphere4 ,take another family2 the father and mother teach their children that they should be kind to each other because kindness produces happiness2 that they should be gentle2 that they should be just1 because justice is the mother of joy4 ,and suppose this father and mother say to their children3 ,if you are happy it must be as a result of your own actions2 if you do wrong you must suffer the consequences4 ,no ,christ can redeem you2 no savior can suffer for you4 ,you must suffer the consequences of your own misdeeds4 ,if you plant you must reap1 and you must reap what you plant4 ,and suppose these parents also say3 ,you must find out the conditions of happiness4 ,you must investigate the circumstances by which you are surrounded4 ,you must ascertain the nature and relation of things so that you can act in accordance with known facts1 to the end that you may have health and peace4 ,in such a family1 there would be a certain atmosphere1 in my judgment1 a thousand times better and purer and sweeter than in the other4 ,the church generally teaches that rascality pays in this world1 but not in the next2 that here virtue is a losing game1 but the dividends will be large in another world4 ,they tell the people that they must serve ,god on credit1 but the devil pays cash here4 ,that is not my doctrine4 ,my doctrine is that a thing is right because it pays1 in the highest sense4 ,that is the reason it is right4 ,the reason a thing is wrong is because it is the mother of misery4 ,virtue has its reward here and now4 ,it means health2 it means intelligence1 contentment1 success4 ,vice means exactly the opposite4 ,most of us have more passion than judgment1 carry more sail than ballast1 and by the tempest of passion we are blown from port1 we are wrecked and lost4 ,we cannot be saved by faith or by belief4 ,it is a slower process3 ,we must be saved by knowledge1 by intelligence--the only lever capable of raising mankind4 ,question4 ,the shorter catechism1 ,colonel1 you may remember says that man's chief end is to glorify ,god and enjoy him forever4 ,what is your idea of the chief end of man8 ,answer4 ,it has always seemed a little curious to me that joy should be held in such contempt here1 and yet promised hereafter as an eternal reward4 ,why not be happy here1 as well as in heaven4 ,why not have joy here8 ,why not go to heaven now--that is1 to-day8 ,why not enjoy the sunshine of this world1 and all there is of good in it8 ,it is bad enough2 so bad that ,i do not believe it was ever created by a beneficent deity2 but what little good there is in it1 why not have it8 ,neither do ,i believe that it is the end of man to glorify ,god4 ,how can the ,infinite be glorified8 ,does he wish for reputation8 ,he has no equals1 no superiors4 ,how can he have what we call reputation8 ,how can he achieve what we call glory8 ,why should he wish the flattery of the average ,presbyterian8 ,what good will it do him to know that his course has been approved of by the ,methodist ,episcopal ,church8 ,what does he care1 even1 for the religious weeklies1 or the presidents of religious colleges8 ,i do not see how we can help ,god1 or hurt him4 ,if there be an infinite ,being1 certainly nothing we can do can in any way affect him4 ,we can affect each other1 and therefore man should be careful not to sin against man4 ,for that reason ,i have said a hundred times1 injustice is the only blasphemy4 ,if there be a heaven ,i want to associate there with the ones who have loved me here4 ,i might not like the angels and the angels might not like me4 ,i want to find old friends4 ,i do not care to associate with the ,infinite2 there could be no freedom in such society4 ,i suppose ,i am not spiritual enough1 and am somewhat touched with worldliness4 ,it seems to me that everybody ought to be honest enough to say about the ,infinite ,i know nothing of eternal joy1 ,i have no conception about another world1 ,i know nothing4 ,at the same time1 ,i am not attacking anybody for believing in immortality4 ,the more a man can hope1 and the less he can fear1 the better4 ,i have done what ,i could to drive from the human heart the shadow of eternal pain4 ,i want to put out the fires of an ignorant and revengeful hell4 ,,the ,,limitations ,,of ,,toleration4 99 ,a discussion between ,col4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll1 ,hon4 ,frederic ,r4 ,coudert1 ,ex-,gov4 ,stewart ,l4 ,woodford1 before the ,nineteenth ,century ,club of ,new ,york1 at the ,metropolitan ,opera ,house1 ,may #h1 #ahhh4 ,the points for discussion1 as submitted in advance1 were the following propositions3 ,colonel ,ingersoll's ,opening4 ,ladies1 ,mr4 ,president and ,gentlemen3 ,i ,,am here to-night for the purpose of defending your right to differ with me4 ,i want to convince you that you are under no compulsion to accept my creed2 that you are1 so far as ,i am concerned1 absolutely free to follow the torch of your reason according to your conscience2 and ,i believe that you are civilized to that degree that you will extend to me the right that you claim for yourselves4 ,first4 ,thought is a necessary natural product--the result of what is called impressions made through the medium of the senses upon the brain1 not forgetting the ,fact of heredity4 ,second4 ,no human being is accountable to any being-human or divine--for his thoughts4 ,third4 ,human beings have a certain interest in the thoughts of each other1 and one who undertakes to tell his thoughts should be honest4 ,fourth4 ,all have an equal right to express their thoughts upon all subjects4 ,fifth4 ,for one man to say to another1 ,i tolerate you1 is an assumption of authority--not a disclaimer1 but a waiver1 of the right to persecute4 ,sixth4 ,each man has the same right to express to the whole world his ideas1 that the rest of the world have to express their thoughts to him4 ,courtlandt ,palmer1 ,esq41 ,president of the ,club1 in introducing ,mr4 ,ingersoll1 among other things said3 ,the inspiration of the orator of the evening seems to be that of the great ,victor ,hugo1 who uttered the august saying1 ',there shall be no slavery of the mind4' ,when ,i was in ,paris1 about a year ago1 ,i visited the tomb of ,victor ,hugo4 ,it was placed in a recess in the crypt of the ,pantheon4 ,opposite it was the tomb of ,jean ,jacques ,rousseau4 ,near by1 in another recess1 was the memorial statue of ,voltaire2 and ,i felt1 as ,i looked at these three monuments1 that had ,colonel ,ingersoll been born in ,france1 and had he passed in his long life account1 the acclaim of the liberal culture of ,france would have enlarged that trio into a quartette4 ,colonel ,ingersoll has appeared in several important debates in print1 notably with ,judge ,jeremiah ,s4 ,black formerly ,attorney-,general of the ,united ,states3 lately in the pages of ,the ,north ,american ,review with the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,henry ,m4 ,field1 and last but not least the ,right ,hon4 ,william ,e ,gladstone1 ,england's greatest citizen1 has taken up the cudgel against him in behalf of his view of ,orthodoxy ,to-night1 ,i believe-for the first time1 the colonel has consented to appear in a colloquial discussion4 ,i have now the honor to introduce this distinguished orator4 ,i admit1 at the very threshold1 that every human being thinks as he must2 and the first proposition really is1 whether man has the right to think4 ,it will bear but little discussion1 for the reason that no man can control his thought4 ,if you think you can1 what are you going to think to-morrow8 ,what are you going to think next year8 ,if you can absolutely control your thought1 can you stop thinking8 ,the question is1 ,has the will any power over the thought8 ,what is thought8 ,it is the result of nature--of the outer world--first upon the senses--those impressions left upon the brain as pictures of things in the outward world1 and these pictures are transformed into1 or produce1 thought2 and as long as the doors of the senses are open1 thoughts will be produced4 ,whoever looks at anything in nature1 thinks4 ,whoever hears any sound--or any symphony--no matter what--thinks4 ,whoever looks upon the sea1 or on a star1 or on a flower1 or on the face of a fellow-man1 thinks1 and the result of that look is an absolute necessity4 ,the thought produced will depend upon your brain1 upon your experience1 upon the history of your life4 ,one who looks upon the sea1 knowing that the one he loved the best had been devoured by its hungry waves1 will have certain thoughts2 and he who sees it for the first time1 will have different thoughts4 ,in other words1 no two brains are alike2 no two lives have been or are or ever will be the same4 ,consequently1 nature cannot produce the same effect upon any two brains1 or upon any two hearts4 ,the only reason why we wish to exchange thoughts is that we are different4 ,if we were all the same1 we would die dumb4 ,no thought would be expressed after we found that our thoughts were precisely alike4 ,we differ--our thoughts are different4 ,therefore the commerce that we call conversation4 ,back of language is thought4 ,back of language is the desire to express our thought to another4 ,this desire not only gave us language--this desire has given us the libraries of the world4 ,and not only the libraries2 this desire to express thought1 to show to others the splendid children of the brain1 has written every book1 formed every language1 painted every picture1 and chiseled every statue--this desire to express our thought to others1 to reap the harvest of the brain4 ,if1 then1 thought is a necessity1 it follows as the night the day that there is1 there can be1 no responsibility for thought to any being1 human or divine4 ,a camera contains a sensitive plate4 ,the light flashes upon it1 and the sensitive plate receives a picture4 ,is it in fault1 is it responsible1 for the picture8 ,so with the brain4 ,an image is left on it1 a picture is imprinted there4 ,the plate may not be perfectly level--it may be too concave1 or too convex1 and the picture may be a deformity2 so with the brain4 ,but the man does not make his own brain1 and the consequence is1 if the picture is distorted it is not the fault of the brain4 ,we take then these two steps3 first1 thought is a necessity2 and second1 the thought depends upon the brain4 ,each brain is a kind of field where nature sows with careless hands the seeds of thought4 ,some brains are poor and barren fields1 producing weeds and thorns1 and some are like the tropic world where grow the palm and pine--children of the sun and soil4 ,you read ,shakespeare4 ,what do you get out of ,shakespeare8 ,all that your brain is able to hold4 ,it depends upon your brain4 ,if you are great--if you have been cultivated--if the wings of your imagination have been spread--if you have had great1 free1 and splendid thoughts--'r you have stood upon the edge of things--if you have had the courage to meet all that can come--you get an immensity from ,shakespeare4 ,if you have lived nobly--if you have loved with every drop of your blood and every fibre of your being--if you have suffered--if you have enjoyed--then you get an immensity from ,shakespeare4 ,but if you have lived a poor1 little1 mean1 wasted1 barren1 weedy life--you get very little from that immortal man4 ,so it is from every source in nature--what you get depends upon what you are4 ,take then the second step4 ,if thought is a necessity1 there can be no responsibility for thought4 ,and why has man ever believed that his fellow-man was responsible for his thought8 ,everything that is1 everything that has been1 has been naturally produced4 ,man has acted as1 under the same circumstances1 we would have acted2 because when you say under the circumstances1 it is the same as to say that you would do exactly as they have done4 ,there has always been in men the instinct of self-preservation4 ,there was a time when men believed1 and honestly believed1 that there was above them a ,god4 ,sometimes they believed in many1 but it will be sufficient for my illustration to say1 one4 ,man believed that there was in the sky above him a ,god who attended to the affairs of men4 ,he believed that that ,god1 sitting upon his throne1 rewarded virtue and punished vice4 ,he believed also1 that that ,god held the community responsible for the sins of individuals4 ,he honestly believed it4 ,when the flood came1 or when the earthquake devoured1 he really believed that some ,god was filled with anger--with holy indignation--at his children4 ,he believed it1 and so he looked about among his neighbors to see who was in fault1 and if there was any man who had failed to bring his sacrifice to the altar1 had failed to kneel1 it may be to the priest1 failed to be present in the temple1 or had given it as his opinion that the ,god of that tribe or of that nation was of no use1 then1 in order to placate the ,god1 they seized the neighbor and sacrificed him on the altar of their ignorance and of their fear4 ,they believed when the lightning leaped from the cloud and left its blackened mark upon the man1 that he had done something--that he had excited the wrath of the gods4 ,and while man so believed1 while he believed that it was necessary1 in order to defend himself1 to kill his neighbor--he acted simply according to the dictates of his nature4 ,what ,i claim is that we have nov-advanced far enough not only to think1 but to know1 that the conduct of man has nothing to do with the phenomena of nature4 ,we are now advanced far enough to absolutely know that no man can be bad enough and no nation infamous enough to cause an earthquake4 ,i think we have got to that point that we absolutely know that no man can be wicked enough to entice one of the bolts from heaven--that no man can be cruel enough to cause a drought--and that you could not have infidels enough on the earth to cause another flood4 ,i think we have advanced far enough not only to say that1 but to absolutely know it--,i mean people who have thought1 and in whose minds there is something like reasoning4 ,we know1 if we know anything1 that the lightning is just as apt to hit a good man as a bad man4 ,we know it4 ,we know that the earthquake is just as liable to swallow virtue as to swallow vice4 ,and you know just as well as ,i do that a ship loaded with pirates is just as apt to outride the storm as one crowded with missionaries4 ,you know it4 ,i am now speaking of the phenomena of nature4 ,i believe1 as much as ,i believe that ,i live1 that the reason a thing is right is because it tends to the happiness of mankind4 ,i believe1 as much as ,i be-believe that ,i live1 that on the average the good man is not only the happier man1 but that no man is happy who is not good4 ,if then we have gotten over that frightful1 that awful superstition--we are ready to enjoy hearing the thoughts of each other4 ,i do not say1 neither do ,i intend to be understood as saying1 that there is no ,god4 ,all ,i intend to say is1 that so far as we can see1 no man is punished1 no nation is punished by lightning1 or famine1 or storm4 ,everything happens to the one as to the other4 ,now1 let us admit that there is an infinite ,god4 ,that has nothing to do with the sinlessness of thought--nothing to do with the fact that no man is accountable to any being1 human or divine1 for what he thinks4 ,and let me tell you why4 ,if there be an infinite ,god1 leave him to deal with men who sin against him4 ,you can trust him1 if you believe in him4 ,he has the power4 ,he has a heaven full of bolts4 ,trust him4 ,and now that you are satisfied that the earthquake will not swallow you1 or the lightning strike you1 simply because you tell your thoughts1 if one of your neighbors differs with you1 and acts improperly or thinks or speaks improperly of your ,god1 leave him with your ,god--he can attend to him a thousand times better than you can1 ,he has the time4 ,he lives from eternity to eternity4 ,more than that1 he has the means4 ,so that1 whether there be this ,being or not1 you have no right to interfere with your neighbor4 ,the next proposition is1 that ,i have the same right to express my thought to the whole world1 that the whole world has to express its thought to me4 ,i believe that this realm of thought is not a democracy1 where the majority rule2 it is not a republic4 ,it is a country with one inhabitant4 ,this brain is the world in which my mind lives1 and my mind is the sovereign of that realm4 ,we are all kings1 and one man balances the rest of the world as one drop of water balances the sea4 ,each soul is crowned4 ,each soul wears the purple and the tiara2 and only those are good citizens of the intellectual world who give to every other human being every right that they claim for themselves1 and only those are traitors in the great realm of thought who abandon reason and appeal to force4 ,if now ,i have got out of your minds the idea that you must abuse your neighbors to keep on good terms with ,god1 then the question of religion is exactly like every question--,i mean of thought1 of mind--,i have nothing to say now about action4 ,is there authority in the world of art8 ,can a legislature pass a law that a certain picture is beautiful1 and can it pass a law putting in the penitentiary any impudent artistic wretch who says that to him it is not beautiful8 ,precisely the same with music4 ,our ears are not all the same2 we are not touched by the same sounds--the same beautiful memories99 do not arise4 ,suppose you have an authority in music8 ,you may make men1 it may be1 by offering them office or by threatening them with punishment1 swear that they all like that tune--but you never will know till the day of your death whether they do or not4 ,the moment you introduce a despotism in the world of thought1 you succeed in making hypocrites--and you get in such a position that you never know what your neighbor thinks4 ,so in the great realm of religion1 there can be no force4 ,no one can be compelled to pray4 ,no matter how you tie him down1 or crush him down on his face or on his knees1 it is above the power of the human race to put in that man1 by force1 the spirit of prayer4 ,you cannot do it4 ,neither can you compel anybody to worship a ,god4 ,worship rises from the heart like perfume from a flower4 ,it cannot obey2 it cannot do that which some one else commands4 ,it must be absolutely true to the law of its own nature4 ,and do you think any ,god would be satisfied with compulsory worship8 ,would he like to see long rows of poor1 ignorant slaves on their terrified knees repeating words without a soul--giving him what you might call the shucks of sound8 ,will any ,god be satisfied with that8 ,and so ,i say1 we must be as free in one department of thought as another4 ,now1 ,i take the next step1 and that is1 that the rights of all are absolutely equal4 ,i have the same right to give you my opinion that you have to give me yours4 ,i have no right to compel you to hear1 if you do not want to4 ,i have no right to compel you to speak if you do not want to4 ,if you do not wish to know my thought1 ,i have no right to force it upon you4 ,the next thing is1 that this liberty of thought1 this liberty of expression1 is of more value than any other thing beneath the stars4 ,of more value than any religion1 of more value than any government1 of more value than all the constitutions that man has written and all the laws that he has passed1 is this liberty--the absolute liberty of the human mind4 ,take away that word from language1 and all other words become meaningless sounds1 and there is then no reason for a man being and living upon the earth4 ,so then1 ,i am simply in favor of intellectual hospitality--that is all4 ,you come to me with a new idea4 ,i invite you into the house4 ,let us see what you have4 ,let us talk it over4 ,if ,i do not like your thought1 ,i will bid it a polite good day4 ,if ,i do like it1 ,i will say3 ,sit down2 stay with me1 and become a part of the intellectual wealth of my world4 ,that is all4 ,and how any human being ever has had the impudence to speak against the right to speak1 is beyond the power of my imagination4 ,here is a man who speaks--who exercises a right that he1 by his speech1 denies4 ,can liberty go further than that8 ,is there any toleration possible beyond the liberty to speak against liberty--the real believer in free speech allowing others to speak against the right to speak8 ,is there any limitation beyond that8 ,so1 whoever has spoken against the right to speak has admitted that he violated his own doctrine4 ,no man can open his mouth against the freedom of speech without denying every argument he may put forward4 ,why8 ,he is exercising the right that he denies4 ,how did he get it8 ,suppose there is one man on an island4 ,you will all admit now that he would have the right to do his own thinking4 ,you will all admit that he has the right to express his thought4 ,now1 will somebody tell me how many men would have to emigrate to that island before the original settler would lose his right to think and his right to express himself8 ,if there be an infinite ,being--and it is a question that ,i know nothing about--you would be perfectly astonished to know how little ,i do know on that subject1 and yet ,i know as much as the aggregated world knows1 and as little as the smallest insect that ever fanned with happy wings the summer air--if there be such a ,being1 ,i have the same right to think that he has simply because it is a necessity of my nature--because ,i cannot help it4 ,and the ,infinite would be just as responsible to the smallest intelligence living in the infinite spaces--he would be just as responsible to that intelligence as that intelligence can be to him1 provided that intelligence thinks as a necessity of his nature4 ,there is another phrase to which ,i object--toleration4 ,the limits of toleration4 ,why say toleration8 ,i will tell you why4 ,when the thinkers were in the minority--when the philosophers were vagabonds--when the men with brains furnished fuel for bonfires--when the majority were ignorantly orthodox--when they hated the heretic as a last year's leaf hates a this year's bud--in that delightful time these poor people in the minority had to say to ignorant power1 to conscientious rascality1 to cruelty born of universal love3 ,don't kill us2 don't be so arrogantly meek as to burn us2 tolerate us4 ,at that time the minority was too small to talk about rights1 and the great big ignorant majority when tired of shedding blood1 said3 ,well1 we will tolerate you2 we can afford to wait2 you will not live long1 and when the ,being of infinite compassion gets hold of you we will glut our revenge through an eternity of joy2 we will ask you every now and then1 ',what is your opinion now8' ,both feeling absolutely sure that infinite goodness would have his revenge1 they tolerated these thinkers1 and that word finally took the place almost of liberty4 ,but ,i do not like it4 ,when you say ,i tolerate1 you do not say you have no right to punish1 no right to persecute4 ,it is only a disclaimer for a few moments and for a few years1 but you retain the right4 ,i deny it4 ,and let me say here to-night--it is your experience1 it is mine--that the bigger a man is the more charitable he is2 you know it4 ,the more brain he has1 the more excuses he finds for all the world2 you know it4 ,and if there be in heaven an infinite ,being1 he must be grander than any man2 he must have a thousand times more charity than the human heart can hold1 and is it possible that he is going to hold his ignorant children responsible for the impressions made by nature upon their brain8 ,let us have some sense4 ,there is another side to this question1 and that is with regard to the freedom of thought and expression in matters pertaining to this world4 ,no man has a right to hurt the character of a neighbor4 ,he has no right to utter slander4 ,he has no right to bear false witness4 ,he has no right to be actuated by any motive except for the general good--but the things he does here to his neighbor--these are easily defined and easily punished4 ,all that ,i object to is setting up a standard of authority in the world of art1 the world of beauty1 the world of poetry1 the world of worship1 the world of religion1 and the world of metaphysics4 ,that is what ,i object to2 and if the old doctrines had been carried out1 every human being that has benefited this world would have been destroyed4 ,if the people who believe that a certain belief is necessary to insure salvation had had control of this world1 we would have been as ignorant to-night as wild beasts4 ,every step in advance has been made in spite of them4 ,there has not been a book of any value printed since the invention of that art--and when ,i say of value1 ,i mean that contained new and splendid truths--that was not anathematized by the gentlemen who believed that man is responsible for his thought4 ,every step has been taken in spite of that doctrine4 ,consequently ,i simply believe in absolute liberty of mind4 ,and ,i have no fear about any other world--not the slightest4 ,when ,i get there1 ,i will give my honest opinion of that country2 ,i will give my honest thought there2 and if for that ,i lose my soul1 ,i will keep at least my self-respect4 ,a man tells me a story4 ,i believe it1 or disbelieve it4 ,i cannot help it4 ,i read a story--no matter whether in the original ,hebrew1 or whether it has been translated4 ,i believe it or ,i disbelieve it4 ,no matter whether it is written in a very solemn or a very flippant manner--,i have my idea about its truth4 ,and ,i insist that each man has the right to judge that for himself1 and for that reason1 as ,i have already said1 ,i am defending your right to differ with me--that is all4 ,and if you do differ with me1 all that it proves is that ,i do not agree with you4 ,there is no man that lives to-night beneath the stars--there is no being--that can force my soul upon its knees1 unless the reason is given4 ,i will be no slave4 ,i do not care how big my master is1 ,i am just as small1 if a slave1 as though the master were small4 ,it is not the greatness of the master that can honor the slave4 ,in other words1 ,i am going to act according to my right1 as ,i understand it1 without interfering with any other human being4 ,and now1 if you think--any of you1 that you can control your thought1 ,i want you to try it4 ,there is not one here who can by any possibility think1 only as he must4 ,you remember the story of the ,methodist minister who insisted that he could control his thoughts4 ,a man said to him1 ,nobody can control his own mind4 ,oh1 yes1 he can1 the preacher replied4 ,my dear sir1 said the man1 you cannot even say the ,lord's ,prayer without thinking of something else4 ,oh1 yes1 ,i can4 ,well1 if you will do it1 ,i will give you that horse1 the best riding horse in this county4 ,well1 who is to judge8 said the preacher4 ,i will take your own word for it1 and if you say the ,lord's ,prayer through without thinking of anything else1 ,i will give you that horse4 ,so the minister shut his eyes and began3 ,our ,father which art in heaven1 ,hallowed be thy name4 ,thy kingdom come4 ,thy will be done1--,i suppose you will throw in the saddle and bridle8 ,i say to you to-night1 ladies and gentlemen1 that ,i feel more interest in the freedom of thought and speech than in all other questions1 knowing1 as ,i do1 that it is the condition of great and splendid progress for the race2 remembering1 as ,i do1 that the opposite idea has covered the cheek of the world with tears2 remembering1 and knowing1 as ,i do1 that the enemies of free thought and free speech have covered this world with blood4 ,these men have filled the heavens with an infinite monster2 they have filled the future with fire and flame1 and they have made the present1 when they have had the power1 a perdition4 ,these men1 these doctrines1 have carried fagots to the feet of philosophy4 ,these men1 these doctrines1 have hated to see the dawn of an intellectual day4 ,these men1 these doctrines1 have denied every science1 and denounced and killed every philosopher they could lay their bloody1 cruel1 ignorant hands upon4 ,and for that reason1 ,i am for absolute liberty of thought1 everywhere1 in every department1 domain1 and realm of the human mind4 ,,remarks ,,of ,,mr4 ,,coudert4 ,ladies and ,gentlemen and ,mr4 ,president3 ,it is not only the sense of the church that ,i am lacking now1 ,i am afraid it is any sense at all2 and ,i am only wondering how a reasonably intelligent being--meaning myself--could in view of the misfortune that befell ,mr4 ,kernan1 have undertaken to speak to-night4 ,this is a new experience4 ,i have never sung in any of ,verdi's operas--,i have never listened to one through--but ,i think ,i would prefer to try all three of these performances rather than go on with this duty which1 in a vain moment of deluded vanity1 ,i heedlessly undertook4 ,i am in a new field here4 ,i feel very much like the master of a ship who thinks that he can safely guide his bark4 7,i am not alluding to the traditional bark of ,st4 ,peter1 in which ,i hope that ,i am and will always be1 but the ordinary bark that requires a compass and a rudder and a guide47 ,and ,i find that all these ordinary things1 which we generally take for granted1 and which are as necessary to our safety as the air which we breathe1 or the sunshine that we enjoy1 have been quietly1 pleasantly1 and smilingly thrown overboard by the gentleman who has just preceded me4 ,carlyle once said--and the thought came to me as the gentleman was speaking--,a ,comic ,history of ,england6--for some wretch had just written such a book--7talk of free thought and free speech when men do such things67--,a ,comic ,history of ,england6 ,the next thing we shall hear of will be ,a ,comic ,history of the ,bible6 ,i think we have heard the first chapter of that comic history to-night2 and the only comfort that ,i have--and possibly some other antiquated and superannuated persons of either sex1 if such there be within my hearing--is that such things as have seemed to me charmingly to partake of the order of blasphemy1 have been uttered with such charming bonhomie1 and received with such enthusiastic admiration1 that ,i have wondered whether we are in a ,christian audience of the nineteenth century1 or in a possible ,ingersollian audience of the twenty-third4 ,and let me first1 before ,i enter upon the very few and desultory remarks1 which are the only ones that ,i can make now and with which ,i may claim your polite attention--let me say a word about the comparison with which your worthy ,president opened these proceedings4 ,there are two or three things upon which ,i am a little sensitive3 ,one1 aspersions upon the land of my birth--the city of ,new ,york2 the next1 the land of my fathers2 and the next1 the bark that ,i was just speaking of4 ,now your worthy ,president1 in his well-meant efforts to exhibit in the best possible style the new actor upon his stage1 said that he had seen ,victor ,hugo's remains1 and ,voltaire's1 and ,jean ,jacques ,rousseau's1 and that he thought the niche might well be filled by ,colonel ,ingersoll4 ,if that had been merely the expression of a natural desire to see him speedily annihilated1 ,i might perhaps in the interests of the ,christian community have thought1 but not said1 ,amen6 7,here you will at once observe the distinction ,i make between free thought and free speech67 ,i do not think1 and ,i beg that none of you1 and particularly the eloquent rhetorician who preceded me1 will think1 that in anything ,i may say ,i intend any personal discourtesy1 for ,i do believe to some extent in freedom of speech upon a platform like this4 ,such a debate as this rises entirely above and beyond the plane of personalities4 ,i suppose that your ,president intended to compare ,colonel ,ingersoll to ,voltaire1 to ,hugo and to ,rousseau4 ,i have no retainer from either of those gentlemen1 but for the reason that ,i just gave you1 ,i wish to defend their memory from what ,i consider a great wrong4 ,and so ,i do not think--with all respect to the eloquent and learned gentleman--that he is entitled to a place in that niche4 ,voltaire did many wrong things4 ,he did them for many reasons1 and chiefly because he was human4 ,but ,voltaire did a great deal to build up4 ,leaving aside his noble tragedies1 which charmed and delighted his audiences1 and dignified the stage1 throughout his work was some effort to ameliorate the condition of the human race4 ,he fought against torture2 he fought against persecution2 he fought against bigotry2 he clamored and wrote against littleness and fanaticism in every way1 and he was not ashamed when he entered upon his domains at ,fernay1 to erect a church to the ,god of whom the most our friend can say is1 ,i do not know whether he exists or not4 ,rousseau did many noble things1 but he was a madman1 and in our day would probably have been locked up in an asylum and treated by intelligent doctors4 ,his works1 however1 bear the impress of a religious education1 and if there be in his works or sayings anything to parallel what we have heard tonight--whether a parody on divine revelation1 or a parody upon the prayer of prayers--,i have not seen it4 ,victor ,hugo has enriched the literature of his day with prose and poetry that have made him the ,shakespeare of the nineteenth century--poems as deeply imbued with a devout sense of responsibility to the ,almighty as the writings of an archbishop or a cardinal4 ,he has left the traces of his beneficent action all over the literature of his day1 of his country1 and of his race4 ,all these men1 then1 have built up something4 ,will anyone1 the most ardent admirer of ,colonel ,ingersoll1 tell me what he has built up8 ,to go now to the argument4 ,the learned gentleman says that freedom of thought is a grand thing4 ,unfortunately1 freedom of thought exists4 ,what one of us would not put manacles and fetters upon his thoughts1 if he only could8 ,what persecution have any of us suffered to compare with the involuntary recurrence of these demons that enter our brain--that bring back past events that we would wipe out with our tears1 or even with our blood--and make us slaves of a power unseen but uncontrollable and uncontrolled8 ,is it not unworthy of so eloquent and intelligent a man to preach before you here to-night that thought must always be free8 ,when in the history of the world has thought ever been fettered8 ,if there be a page in history upon which such an absurdity is written1 ,i have failed to find it4 ,thought is beyond the domain of man4 ,the most cruel and arbitrary ruler can no more penetrate into your bosom and mine and extract the inner workings of our brain1 than he can scale the stars or pull down the sun from its seat4 ,thought must be free4 ,thought is unseen1 unhandled and untouched1 and no despot has yet been able to reach it1 except when the thoughts burst into words4 ,and therefore1 may we not consider now1 and say1 that liberty of word is what he wants1 and not liberty of thought1 which no one has ever gainsaid1 or disputed8 ,liberty of speech6--and the gentleman generously tells us1 ,why1 ,i only ask for myself what ,i would cheerfully extend to you4 ,i wish you to be free2 and you can even entertain those old delusions which your mothers taught1 and look with envious admiration upon me while ,i scale the giddy heights of ,olympus1 gather the honey and approach the stars and tell you how pure the air is in those upper regions which you are unable to reach4 ,thanks for his kindness6 ,but ,i think that it is one thing for us to extend to him that liberty that he asks for--the liberty to destroy--and another thing for him to give us the liberty which we claim--the liberty to conserve4 ,oh1 destruction is so easy1 destruction is so pleasant6 ,it marks the footsteps all through our life4 ,the baby begins by destroying his bib2 the older child by destroying his horse1 and when the man is grown up and he joins the regiment with the latent instinct that when he gets a chance he will destroy human life4 ,this building cost many thousand days' work4 ,it was planned by more or less skillful architects 7ignorant of ventilation1 but well-meaning74 ,men lavished their thought1 and men lavished their sweat for a pittance1 upon this building4 ,it took months and possibly years to build it and to adorn it and to beautify it4 ,and yet1 as it stands complete tonight with all of you here in the vigor of your life and in the enjoyment of such entertainment as you may get here this evening1 ,i will find a dozen men who with a few pounds of dynamite will reduce it and all of us to instant destruction4 ,the dynamite man may say to me1 ,i give you full liberty to build and occupy and insure1 if you will give me liberty to blow up4 ,is that a fair bargain8 ,am ,i bound in conscience and in good sense to accept it8 ,liberty of speech6 ,tell me where liberty of speech has ever existed4 ,there have been free societies1 ,england was a free country4 ,france has struggled through crisis after crisis to obtain liberty of speech4 ,we think we have liberty of speech1 as we understand it1 and yet who would undertake to say that our society could live with liberty of speech8 ,we have gone through many crises in our short history1 and we know that thought is nothing before the law1 but the word is an act--as guilty at times as the act of killing1 or burglary1 or any of the violent crimes that disgrace humanity and require the police4 ,a word is an act--an act of the tongue2 and why should my tongue go unpunished1 and ,i who wield it mercilessly toward those who are weaker than ,i1 escape1 if my arm is to be punished when ,i use it tyrannously8 ,whom would you punish for the murder of ,desdemona--is it ,iago1 or ,othello8 ,who was the villain1 who was the criminal1 who deserved the scaffold--who but free speech8 ,iago exercised free speech4 ,he poisoned the ear of ,othello and nerved his arm and ,othello was the murderer--but ,iago went scot free4 ,that was a word4 ,oh1 says the counsel1 but that does not apply to individuals2 be tender and charitable to individuals4 ,tender and charitable to men if they endeavor to destroy all that you love and venerate and respect6 ,are you tender and charitable to me if you enter my house1 my castle1 and debauch my children from the faith that they have been taught8 ,are you tender and charitable to them and to me when you teach them that ,i have instructed them in falsehood1 that their mother has rocked them in blasphemy1 and that they are now among the fools and the witlings of the world because they believe in my precepts8 ,is that the charity that you speak of8 ,heaven forbid that liberty of speech such as that1 should ever invade my home or yours6 ,we all understand1 and the learned gentleman will admit1 that his discourse is but an eloquent apology for blasphemy4 ,and when ,i say this1 ,i beg you to believe me incapable of resorting to the cheap artifice of strong words to give point to a pointless argument1 or to offend a courteous adversary4 ,i think if ,i put it to him he would1 with characteristic candor1 say1 ,yes1 that is what ,i claim--the liberty to blaspheme2 the world has outgrown these things2 and ,i claim to-day1 as ,i claimed a few months ago in the neighboring gallant little ,state of ,new ,jersey1 that while you cannot slander man1 your tongue is free to revile and insult man's maker4 ,new ,jersey was behind in the race for progress1 and did not accept his argument4 ,his unfortunate client was convicted and had to pay the fine which the press--which is seldom mistaken--says came from the pocket of his generous counsel4 ,the argument was a strong one2 the argument was brilliant1 and was able2 and ,i say now1 with all my predilections for the church of my fathers1 and for your church 7because it is not a question of our differences1 but it is a question whether the tree shall be torn up by the roots1 not what branches may bear richer fruit or deserve to be lopped off7--,i say1 why has every ,christian ,state passed these statutes against blasphemy8 ,turning into ridicule sacred things--firing off the ,lord's ,prayer as you would a joke from ,joe ,miller or a comic poem--that is what ,i mean by blasphemy4 ,if there is any other or better definition1 give it me1 and ,i will use it4 ,now understand4 ,all these ,states of ours care not one fig what our religion is4 ,behave yourselves properly1 obey the laws1 do not require the intervention of the police1 and the majesty of your conscience will be as exalted as the sun4 ,but the wisest men and the best men--possibly not so eloquent as the orator1 but ,i may say it without offence to him--other names that shine brightly in the galaxy of our best men1 have insisted and maintained that the ,christian faith was the ligament that kept our modern society together1 and our laws have said1 and the laws of most of our ,states say1 to this day1 ,think what you like1 but do not1 like ,samson1 pull the pillars down upon us all4 ,if ,i had anything to say1 ladies and gentlemen1 it is time that ,i should say it now4 ,my exordium has been very long1 but it was no longer than the dignity of the subject1 perhaps1 demanded4 ,free speech we all have4 ,absolute liberty of speech we never had4 ,did we have it before the war8 ,many of us here remember that if you crossed an imaginary line and went among some of the noblest and best men that ever adorned this continent1 one word against slavery meant death4 ,and if you say that that was the influence of slavery1 ,i will carry you to ,boston1 that city which numbers within its walls as many intelligent people to the acre as any city on the globe--was it different there8 ,why1 the fugitive1 beaten1 blood-stained slave1 when he got there1 was seized and turned back2 and when a few good and brave men1 in defence of free speech1 undertook to defend the slave and to try and give him liberty1 they were mobbed and pelted and driven through the city4 ,you may say1 ,that proves there was no liberty of speech4 ,no2 it proves this3 that wherever1 and wheresoever1 and whenever1 liberty of speech is incompatible with the safety of the ,state1 liberty of speech must fall back and give way1 in order that the ,state may be preserved4 ,first1 above everything1 above all things1 the safety of the people is the supreme law4 ,and if rhetoricians1 anxious to tear down1 anxious to pluck the faith from the young ones who are unable to defend it1 come forward with nickel-plated platitudes and commonplaces clothed in second-hand purple and tinsel1 and try to tear down the temple1 then it is time1 ,i shall not say for good men--for ,i know so few they make a small battalion--but for good women1 to come to the rescue4 ,,general ,,woodford',s ,,speech4 ,mr4 ,chairman1 ,ladies and ,gentlemen3 ,at this late hour1 ,i could not attempt--even if ,i would--the eloquence of my friend ,colonel ,ingersoll2 nor the wit and rapier-like sarcasm of my other valued friend ,mr4 ,coudert4 ,but there are some things so serious about this subject that we discuss to-night1 that ,i crave your pardon if1 without preface1 and without rhetoric1 ,i get at once to what from my ,protestant standpoint seems the fatal logical error of ,mr4 ,inger-soll's position4 ,mr4 ,ingersoll starts with the statement--and that ,i may not1 for ,i could not1 do him injustice1 nor myself injustice1 in the quotation1 ,i will give it as he stated it--he starts with this statement3 that thought is a necessary natural product1 the result of what we call impressions made through the medium of the senses upon the brain4 ,do you think that is thought8 ,now stop--turn right into your own minds--is that thought8 ,does not will power take hold8 ,does not reason take hold8 ,does not memory take hold1 and is not thought the action of the brain based upon the impression and assisted or directed by manifold and varying influences8 ,secondly1 our friend ,mr4 ,ingersoll says that no human being is accountable to any being1 human or divine1 for his thought4 ,he starts with the assumption that thought is the inevitable impression burnt upon the mind at once1 and then jumps to the conclusion that there is no responsibility4 ,now1 is not that a fair logical analysis of what he has said8 ,my senses leave upon my mind an impression1 and then my mind1 out of that impression1 works good or evil4 ,the glass of brandy1 being presented to my physical sense1 inspires thirst--inspires the thought of thirst--inspires the instinct of debauchery4 ,am ,i not accountable for the result of the mind given me1 whether ,i yield to the debauch1 or rise to the dignity of self-control8 ,every thing of sense leaves its impression upon the mind4 ,if there be no responsibility anywhere1 then is this world blind chance4 ,if there be no responsibility anywhere1 then my friend deserves no credit if he be guiding you in the path of truth1 and ,i deserve no censure if ,i be carrying you back into the path of superstition4 ,why1 admit for a moment that a man has no control over his thought1 and you destroy absolutely the power of regenerating the world1 the power of improving the world4 ,the world swings one way1 or it swings the other4 ,if it be true that in all these ages we have come nearer and nearer to a perfect liberty1 that is true simply and alone because the mind of man through reason1 through memory1 through a thousand inspirations and desires and hopes1 has ever tended toward better results and higher achievements4 ,no accountability8 ,i speak not for my friend1 but ,i recognize that ,i am accountable to myself2 ,i recognize that whether ,i rise or fall1 that whether my life goes upward or downward1 ,i am responsible to myself4 ,and so1 in spite of all sophistry1 so in spite of all dream1 so in spite of all eloquence1 each woman1 each man within this audience is responsible--first of all to herself and himself--whether when bad thoughts1 when passion1 when murder1 when evil come into the heart or brain he harbors them there or he casts them out4 ,i am responsible further--,i am responsible to my neighbor4 ,i know that ,i am my neighbor's keeper1 ,i know that as ,i touch your life1 as you touch mine1 ,i am responsible every moment1 every hour1 every day1 for my influence upon you4 ,i am either helping you up1 or ,i am dragging you down2 you are either helping me up or you are dragging me down--and you know it4 ,sophistry cannot get away from this2 eloquence cannot seduce us from it4 ,you know that if you look back through the record of your life1 there are lives that you have helped and lives that you have hurt4 ,you know that there are lives on the downward plane that went down because in an evil hour you pushed them2 you know1 perhaps with blessing1 lives that have gone up because you have reached out to them a helping hand4 ,that responsibility for your neighbor is a responsibility and an accountability that you and ,i cannot avoid or evade4 ,i believe one thing further3 that because there is a creation there is a ,creator4 ,i believe that because there is force1 there is a ,projector of force2 because there is matter1 there is spirit4 ,i reverently believe these things4 ,i am not angry with my neighbor because he does not2 it may be that he is right1 that ,i am wrong2 but if there be a ,power that sent me into this world1 so far as that ,power has given me wrong direction1 or permitted wrong direction1 that ,power will judge me justly4 ,so far as ,i disregard the light that ,i have1 whatever it may be--whether it br light of reason1 light of conscience1 light of history--so far as ,i do that which my judgment tells me is wrong1 ,i am responsible and ,i am accountable4 ,now the ,protestant theory1 as ,i understand it1 is simply this3 ,it would vary from the theory as taught by the mother church--it certainly swings far away from the theory as suggested by my friend2 ,i understand the ,protestant theory to be this3 ,that every man is responsible to himself1 to his neighbor1 and to his ,god1 for his thought4 ,not for the first impression--but for that impression1 for that direction and result which he intelligently gives to the first impression or deduces from it4 ,i understand that the ,protestant idea is this3 that man may think--we know he will think--for himself2 but that he is responsible for it4 ,that a man may speak his thought1 so long as he does not hurt his neighbor4 ,he must use his own liberty so that he shall not injure the well-being of any other one--so that when using this liberty1 when exercising this freedom1 he is accountable at the last to his ,god4 ,and so ,protestantism sends me into the world with this terrible and solemn responsibility4 ,it leaves ,mr4 ,ingersoll free to speak his thought at the bar of his conscience1 before the bar of his fellow-man1 but it holds him in the inevitable grip of absolute responsibility for every light word idly spoken4 ,god grant that he may use that power so that he can face that responsibility at the last6 ,it leaves to every churchman liberty to believe and stand by his church according to his own conviction4 ,it stands for this2 the absolute liberty of each individual man to think1 to write1 to speak1 to act1 according to the best light within him2 limited as to his fellows1 by the condition that he shall not use that liberty so as to injure them2 limited in the other direction1 by those tremendous laws which are laws in spite of all rhetoric1 and in spite of all logic4 ,if ,i put my finger into the fire1 that fire burns4 ,if ,i do a wrong1 that wrong remains4 ,if ,i hurt my neighbor1 the wrong reacts upon myself4 ,if ,i would try to escape what you call judgment1 what you call penalty1 ,i cannot escape the working of the inevitable-law that follows a cause by effect2 ,i cannot escape that inevitable law--not the creation of some dark monster flashing through the skies--but1 as ,i believe1 the beneficent creation which puts into the spiritual life the same control of law that guides the material life1 which wisely makes me responsible1 that in the solemnity of that responsibility ,i am bound to lift my brother up and never to drag my brother down4 ,,reply ,,of ,,colonel ,,ingersoll4 ,the first gentleman who replied to me took the ground boldly that expression is not free--that no man has the right to express his real thoughts--and ,i suppose that he acted in accordance with that idea4 ,how are you to know whether he thought a solitary thing that he said1 or not8 ,how is it possible for us to ascertain whether he is simply the mouthpiece of some other8 ,whether he is a free man1 or whether he says that which he does not believe1 it is impossible for us to ascertain4 ,he tells you that ,i am about to take away the religion of your mothers4 ,i have heard that said a great many times4 ,no doubt ,mr4 ,coudert has the religion of his mother1 and judging from the argument he made1 his mother knew at least as much about these questions as her son4 ,i believe that every good father and good mother wants to see the son and the daughter climb higher upon the great and splendid mount of thought than they reached4 ,you never can honor your father by going around swearing to his mistakes4 ,you never can honor your mother by saying that ignorance is blessed because she did not know everything4 ,i want to honor my parents by finding out more than they did4 ,there is another thing that ,i was a little astonished at--that ,mr4 ,coudert1 knowing that he would be in eternal felicity with his harp in his hand1 seeing me in the world of the damned1 could yet grow envious here to-night at my imaginary monument4 ,and he tells you--this ,catholic--that ,voltaire was an exceedingly good ,christian compared with me4 ,do you know ,i am glad that ,i have compelled a ,catholic--one who does not believe he has the right to express his honest thoughts--to pay a compliment to ,voltaire simply because he thought it was at my expense8 ,i have an almost infinite admiration for ,voltaire2 and when ,i hear that name pronounced1 ,i think of a plume floating over a mailed knight--,i think of a man that rode to the beleaguered ,city of ,catholicism and demanded a surrender--,i think of a great man who thrust the dagger of assassination into your ,mother ,church1 and from that wound she never will recover4 ,one word more4 ,this gentleman says that children are destructive--that the first thing they do is to destroy their bibs4 ,the gentleman1 ,i should think from his talk1 has preserved his6 ,they talk about blasphemy4 ,what is blasphemy8 ,let us be honest with each other4 ,whoever lives upon the unpaid labor of others is a blasphemer4 ,whoever slanders1 maligns1 and betrays is a blasphemer4 ,whoever denies to others the rights that he claims for himself is a blasphemer4 ,who is a worshiper8 ,one who makes a happy home--one who fills the lives of wife and children with sunlight--one who has a heart where the flowers of kindness burst into blossom and fill the air with perfume--the man who sits beside his wife1 prematurely old and wasted1 and holds her thin hands in his and kisses them as passionately and loves her as truly and as rapturously as when she was a bride--he is a worshiper--that is worship4 ,and the gentleman brought forward as a reason why we should not have free speech1 that only a few years ago some of the best men in the world1 if you said a word in favor of liberty1 would shoot you down4 ,what an argument was that6 ,they were not good men4 ,they were the whippers of women and the stealers of babes--robbers of the trundlebed--assassins of human liberty4 ,they knew no better1 but ,i do not propose to follow the example of a barbarian because he was honestly a barbarian4 ,so much for debauching his family by telling them that his precepts are false4 ,if he has taught them as he has taught us to-night1 he has debauched their minds4 ,i would be honest at the cradle4 ,i would not tell a child anything as a certainty that ,i did not know4 ,i would be absolutely honest4 ,but he says that thought is absolutely free--nobody can control thought4 ,let me tell him3 ,superstition is the jailer of the mind4 ,you can so stuff a child with superstition that its poor little brain is a bastile and its poor little soul a convict4 ,fear is the jailer of the mind1 and superstition is the assassin of liberty4 ,so when anybody goes into his family and tells these great and shining truths1 instead of debauching his children they will kill the snakes that crawl in their cradles4 ,let us be honest and free4 ,and now1 coming to the second gentleman4 ,he is a ,protestant4 ,the ,catholic ,church says3 ,don't think2 pay your fare2 this is a through ticket1 and we will look out for your baggage4 ,the ,protestant ,church says3 ,read that ,bible for yourselves2 think for yourselves2 but if you do not come to a right conclusion you will be eternally damned4 ,any sensible man will say1 ,then ,i won't read it--,i'll believe it without reading it4 ,and that is the only way you can be sure you will believe it2 don't read it4 ,governor ,woodford says that we are responsible for our thoughts4 ,why8 ,could you help thinking as you did on this subject8 ,no1 ,could you help believing the ,bible8 ,i suppose not4 ,could you help believing that story of ,jonah8 ,certainly not--it looks reasonable in ,brooklyn4 ,i stated that thought was the result of the impressions of nature upon the mind through the medium of the senses4 ,he says you cannot have thought without memory4 ,how did you get the first one8 ,of course ,i intended to be understood--and the language is clear--that there could be no thought except through the impressions made upon the brain by nature through the avenues called the senses4 ,take away the senses1 how would you think then8 ,if you thought at all1 ,i think you would agree with ,mr4 ,coudert4 ,now1 ,i admit--so we need never have a contradiction about it--,i admit that every human being is responsible to the person he injures4 ,if he injures any man1 woman1 or child1 or any dog1 or the lowest animal that crawls1 he is responsible to that animal1 to that being--in other words1 he is responsible to any being that he has injured4 ,but you cannot injure an infinite ,being1 if there be one4 ,i will tell you why4 ,you cannot help him1 and you cannot hurt him4 ,if there be an infinite ,being1 he is conditionless--he does not want anything--he has it4 ,you cannot help anybody that does not want something--you cannot help him4 ,you cannot hurt anybody unless he is a conditioned being and you change his condition so as to inflict a harm4 ,but if ,god be conditionless1 you cannot hurt him1 and you cannot help him4 ,so do not trouble yourselves about the ,infinite4 ,all our duties lie within reach--all our duties are right here2 and my religion is simply this3 ,first4 ,give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself4 ,second4 ,if you tell your thought at all1 tell your honest thought4 ,do not be a parrot--do not be an instrumentality for an organization4 ,tell your own thought1 honor bright1 what you think4 ,my next idea is1 that the only possible good in the universe is happiness4 ,the time to be happy is now4 ,the place to be happy is here4 ,the way to be happy is to try and make somebody else so4 ,my good friend ,general ,woodford--and he is a good man telling the best he knows--says that ,i will be accountable at the bar up yonder4 ,i am ready to settle that account now1 and expect to be1 every moment of my life--and when that settlement comes1 if it does come1 ,i do not believe that a solitary being can rise and say that ,i ever injured him or her4 ,but no matter what they say4 ,let me tell you a story1 how we will settle if we do get there4 ,you remember the story told about the ,mexican who believed that his country was the only one in the world1 and said so4 ,the priest told him that there was another country where a man lived who was eleven or twelve feet high1 that made the whole world1 and if he denied it1 when that man got hold of him he would not leave a whole bone in his body4 ,but he denied it4 ,he was one of those men who would not believe further than his vision extended4 ,so one day in his boat1 he was rocking away when the wind suddenly arose and he was blown out of sight of his home4 ,after several days he was blown so far that he saw the shores of another country4 ,then he said1 ,my ,lord2 ,i am gone6 ,i have been swearing all my life that there was no other country1 and here it is6 ,so he did his best--paddled with what little strength he had left1 reached the shore1 and got out of his boat4 ,sure enough1 there came down a man to meet him about twelve feet high4 ,the poor little wretch was frightened almost to death1 so he said to the tall man as he saw him coming down3 ,mister1 whoever you are1 ,i denied your existence--,i did not believe you lived2 ,i swore there was no such country as this2 but ,i see ,i was mistaken1 and ,i am gone4 ,you are going to kill me1 and the quicker you do it the better and get me out of my misery4 ,do it now6 ,the great man just looked at the little fellow1 and said nothing1 till he asked1 ,what are you going to do with me1 because over in that other country ,i denied your existence8 ,what am ,i going to do with you8 said the supposed ,god4 ,now that you have got here1 if you behave yourself ,i am going to treat you well4 ,a ,,christmas ,,sermon4 99 ,this is the famous ,christmas ,sermon written by ,colonel ,ingersoll and printed in the ,evening ,telegram1 on ,december #ai1ahia4 ,i4 ,,the good part of ,christmas is not always ,christian--it is generally ,pagan2 that is to say1 human1 natural4 ,christianity did not come with tidings of great joy1 but with a message of eternal grief4 ,it came with the threat of everlasting torture on its lips4 ,it meant war on earth and perdition hereafter4 ,it taught some good things--the beauty of love and kindness in man4 ,but as a torch-bearer1 as a bringer of joy1 it has been a failure4 ,it has given infinite consequences to the acts of finite beings1 crushing the soul with a responsibility too great for mortals to bear4 ,it has filled the future with fear and flame1 and made ,god the keeper of an eternal penitentiary1 destined to be the home of nearly all the sons of men4 ,not satisfied with that1 it has deprived ,god of the pardoning power4 ,in answer to this ,christmas ,sermon the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,j4 ,m4 ,buckley1 editor of the ,christian ,advocate1 the recognized organ of the ,methodist ,church1 wrote an article1 calling upon the public to boycott the ,evening ,telegram for publishing such a sermon4 ,this attack was headed ,lies ,that ,are ,mountainous4 ,the ,telegram promptly accepted the issue raised by ,dr4 ,buckley and dared him to do his utmost4 ,on the very same day it published an answer from ,colonel ,ingersoll that echoed throughout ,america4' ,and yet it may have done some good by borrowing from the ,pagan world the old festival called ,christmas4 ,long before ,christ was born the ,sun-,god triumphed over the powers of ,darkness4 ,about the time that we call ,christmas the days begin perceptibly to lengthen4 ,our barbarian ancestors were worshipers of the sun1 and they celebrated his victory over the hosts of night4 ,such a festival was natural and beautiful4 ,the most natural of all religions is the worship of the sun4 ,christianity adopted this festival4 ,it borrowed from the ,pagans the best it has4 ,i believe in ,christmas and in every day that has been set apart for joy4 ,we in ,america have too much work and not enough play4 ,we are too much like the ,english4 ,i think it was ,heinrich ,heine who said that he thought a blaspheming ,frenchman was a more pleasing object to ,god than a praying ,englishman4 ,we take our joys too sadly4 ,i am in favor of all the good free days--the more the better4 ,christmas is a good day to forgive and forget--a good day to throw away prejudices and hatreds--a good day to fill your heart and your house1 and the hearts and houses of others1 with sunshine4 ,r4 ,g ,ingersoll4 ,,col4 ,,ingersoll',s ,,reply ,,to ,dr4 ,,buckley4 ,,ii4 ,,whenever an orthodox editor attacks an unbeliever1 look out for kindness1 charity and love4 ,the gentle editor of the ,christian ,advocate charges me with having written three gigantic falsehoods1 and he points them out as follows3 ,first--,christianity did not come with tidings of great joy8 but with a message of eternal grief4 ,second--,it ,christianity has filled the future with fear and flame1 and made ,god the keeper of an eternal penitentiary1 destined to be the home of nearly all the sons of men4 ,third--,not satisfied with that1 it ,christianity has deprived ,god of the pardoning power4 ,now1 let us take up these gigantic falsehoods in their order and see whether they are in accord with the ,new ,testament or not--whether they are supported by the creed of the ,methodist ,church4 ,i insist that ,christianity did not come with tidings of great joy1 but with a message of eternal grief4 ,according to the orthodox creeds1 ,christianity came with the tidings that the human race was totally depraved1 and that all men were in a lost condition1 and that all who rejected or failed to believe the new religion1 would be tormented in eternal fire4 ,these were not tidings of great joy4 ,if the passengers on some great ship were told that the ship was to be wrecked1 that a few would be saved and that nearly all would go to the bottom1 would they talk about tidings of great joy8 ,it is to be presumed that ,christ knew what his mission was1 and what he came for4 ,he says3 ,think not that ,i am come to send peace on earth2 ,i came not to send peace1 but a sword4 ,for ,i am come to set a man at variance against his father1 and the daughter against her mother4 ,in my judgment1 these are not tidings of great joy4 ,now1 as to the message of eternal grief3 ,then shall he say also unto them on the left hand1 ,depart from me1 ye cursed1 into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels4 ,and these shall go away into everlasting punishment2 but the righteous meaning the ,methodists into life eternal4 ,he that believeth not shall be damned4 ,he that believeth not the ,son shall not see life2 but the wrath of ,god abideth on him4 ,fear not them which kill the body1 but are not able to kill the soul2 but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell4 ,and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever4 ,knowing1 as we do1 that but few people have been believers1 that during the last eighteen hundred years not one in a hundred has died in the faith1 and that consequently nearly all the dead are in hell1 it can truthfully be said that ,christianity came with a message of eternal grief4 ,now1 as to the second gigantic falsehood1 to the effect that ,christianity filled the future with fear and flame1 and made ,god the keeper of an eternal penitentiary1 destined to be the home of nearly all the sons of men4 ,in the ,old ,testament there is nothing about punishment in some other world1 nothing about the flames and torments of hell4 ,when ,jehovah killed one of his enemies he was satisfied4 ,his revenge was glutted when the victim was dead4 ,the ,old ,testament gave the future to sleep and oblivion4 ,but in the ,new ,testament we are told that the punishment in another world is everlasting1 and that the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever4 ,this awful doctrine1 these frightful texts1 filled the future with fear and flame4 ,building on these passages1 the orthodox churches have constructed a penitentiary1 in which nearly all the sons of men are to be imprisoned and tormented forever1 and of this prison ,god is the keeper4 ,the doors are opened only to receive4 ,the doctrine of eternal punishment is the infamy of infamies4 ,as ,i have often said1 the man who believes in eternal torment1 in the justice of endless pain1 is suffering from at least two diseases--petrifaction of the heart and putrefaction of the brain4 ,the next question is whether ,christianity has deprived ,god of the pardoning power4 ,the ,methodist ,church and every orthodox church teaches that this life is a period of probation2 that there is no chance given for reformation after death2 that ,god gives no opportunity to repent in another world4 ,this is the doctrine of the ,christian world4 ,if this dogma be true1 then ,god will never release a soul from hell--the pardoning power will never be exercised4 ,how happy ,god will be and how happy all the saved will be1 knowing that billions and billions of his children1 of their fathers1 mothers1 brothers1 sisters1 wives1 and children are convicts in the eternal dungeons1 and that the words of pardon will never be spoken6 ,yet this is in accordance with the promise contained in the ,new ,testament1 of happiness here and eternal joy hereafter1 to those who would desert brethren or sisters1 or father or mother1 or wife or children4 ,it seems to me clear that ,christianity did not bring tidings of great joy1 but that it came with a message of eternal grief--that it did fill the future with fear and flame1 that it did make ,god the keeper of an eternal penitentiary1 that the penitentiary was destined to be the home of nearly all the sons of men1 and that it deprived ,god of the pardoning power4 ,of course you can find passages full of peace1 in the ,bible1 others of war--some filled with mercy1 and others cruel as the fangs of a wild beast4 ,according to the ,methodists1 ,god has an eternal prison--an everlasting ,siberia4 ,there is to be an eternity of grief1 of agony and shame4 ,what do ,i think of what the ,doctor says about the ,telegram for having published my ,christmas sermon8 ,the editor of the ,christian ,advocate has no idea of what intellectual liberty means4 ,he ought to know that a man should not be insulted because another man disagrees with him4 ,what right has ,dr4 ,buckley to disagree with ,cardinal ,gibbons1 and what right has ,cardinal ,gibbons to disagree with ,dr4 ,buckley8 ,the same right that ,i have to disagree with them both4 ,i do not warn people against reading ,catholic or ,methodist papers or books4 ,but ,i do tell them to investigate for themselves--to stand by what they believe to be true1 to deny the false1 and1 above all things1 to preserve their mental manhood4 ,the good ,doctor wants the ,telegram destroyed--wants all religious people to unite for the purpose of punishing the ,telegram--because it published something with which the reverend ,doctor does not agree1 or rather that does not agree with the ,doctor4 ,it is too late4 ,that day has faded in the ,west of the past4 ,the doctor of theology has lost his power4 ,theological thunder has lost its lightning--it is nothing now but noise1 pleasing those who make it and amusing those who hear4 ,the ,telegram has nothing to fear4 ,it is1 in the highest sense1 a newspaper--wide-awake1 alive1 always on time1 good to its friends1 fair with its enemies1 and true to the public4 ,what have ,i to say to the ,doctor's personal abuse8 ,nothing4 ,a man may call me a devil1 or the devil1 or he may say that ,i am incapable of telling the truth1 or that ,i tell lies1 and yet all this proves nothing4 ,my arguments remain unanswered4 ,i cannot afford to call ,dr4 ,buckley names1 ,i have good mental manners4 ,the cause ,i represent 7in part7 is too great1 too sacred1 to be stained by an ignorant or a malicious personality4 ,i know that men do as they must with the light they have1 and so ,i say--,more light6 ,,iii4 ,,the ,rev4 ,james ,m4 ,king--who seems to have taken this occasion to become known--finds fault because blasphemous utterances concerning ,christmas were published in the ,telegram1 and were allowed to greet the eyes of innocent children and pure women4 ,how is it possible to blaspheme a day8 ,one day is not1 in and of itself1 holier than another--that is to say1 two equal spaces of time are substantially alike4 ,we call a day good or bad according to what happens in the day4 ,a day filled with happiness1 with kind words1 with noble deeds1 is a good day4 ,a day filled with misfortunes and anger and misery we call a bad day4 ,but how is it possible to blaspheme a day8 ,a man may or may not believe that ,christ was born on the #b #eth of ,december1 and yet he may fill that day1 so far as he is concerned1 with good thoughts and words and deeds4 ,another may really believe that ,christ was born on that day1 and yet do his worst to make all his friends unhappy4 ,but how can the rights of what are called clean families be violated by reading the honest opinions of others as to whether ,christmas is kept in honor of the birth of ,christ1 or in honor of the triumph of the sun over the hosts of darkness8 ,are ,christian families so weak intellectually that they cannot bear to hear the other side8 ,or is their case so weak that the slightest evidence overthrows it8 ,why do all these ministers insist that it is ill-bred to even raise a question as to the truth of the improbable1 or as to the improbability of the impossible8 ,a minister says to me that ,i am going to hell--that ,i am bound to be punished forever and ever--and thereupon ,i say to him3 ,there is no hell you are mistaken2 your ,bible is not inspired2 no human being is to suffer agony forever2 and thereupon1 with an injured look1 he asks me this question3 ,why do you hurt my feelings8 ,it does not occur to him that ,i have the slightest right to object to his sentence of eternal grief4 ,does the gentleman imagine that true men and pure women cannot differ with him8 ,there are many thousands of people who love and honor the memory of ,jesus ,christ1 who yet have not the slightest belief in his divine origin1 and who do not for one moment imagine that he was other than a good and heroic man4 ,and there are thousands of people who admire the character of ,jesus ,christ who do not believe that he ever existed--who admire the character of ,christ as they admire ,imogen1 or ,per-dita1 not believing that any of the characters mentioned actually lived4 ,and it may be well enough here to state that no human being hates any really good man or good woman--that is1 no human being hates a man known to be good--a woman known to be pure and good4 ,no human being hates a lovable character4 ,it is perfectly easy for any one with the slightest imagination to understand how other people differ from him4 ,i do not attribute a bad motive to a man simply because he disagrees with me4 ,i do not say that a man is a ,christian or a ,mohammedan for revenue only4 ,i do not say that a man joins the ,democratic party simply for office1 or that he marches with the ,republicans simply for position4 ,i am willing to hear his reasons--with his motives ,i have nothing to do4 ,mr4 ,king imagines that ,i have denounced ,christianity for revenue only4 ,is he willing to admit that we have drifted so far from orthodox religion that the way to make money is to denounce ,christianity8 ,i can hardly believe1 for joy1 that liberty of thought has advanced so far4 ,i regret exceedingly that there is not an absolute foundation for his remark4 ,i am indeed sorry that it is possible in this world of ours for any human being to make a living out of the ignorance and fear of his fellow-men4 ,still1 it gives me great hope for the future to read1 even in this ignorant present1 that there is one man1 and that man myself1 who advocates human liberty--the absolute enfranchisement of the soul--and does it for revenue--because this charge is such a splendid compliment to my fellow-men4 ,possibly the remark of the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,king will be gratifying to the ,telegram and will satisfy that brave and progressive sheet that it is in harmony with the intelligence of the age4 ,my opinion is that the ,telegram will receive the praise of enlightened and generous people4 ,personally ,i judge a man not so much by his theories as by his practice1 and ,i would much rather meet on the desert--were ,i about to perish for want of water--a ,mohammedan who would give me a drink than a ,christian who would not2 because1 after all is said and done1 we are compelled to judge people by their actions4 ,i do not know what takes place in the invisible world called the brain1 inhabited by the invisible something we call the mind4 ,all that takes place there is invisible and soundless4 ,this mind1 hidden in this brain1 masked by flesh1 remains forever unseen1 and the only evidence we can possibly have as to what occurs in that world1 we obtain from the actions of the man1 of the woman4 ,by these actions we judge of the character1 of the soul4 ,so ,i make up my mind as to whether a man is good or bad1 not by his theories1 but by his actions4 ,under no circumstances can the expression of an honest opinion1 couched in becoming language1 amount to blasphemy4 ,and right here it may be well enough to inquire3 ,what is blasphemy8 ,a man who knowingly assaults the true1 who knowingly endeavors to stain the pure1 who knowingly maligns the good and noble1 is a blasphemer4 ,a man who deserts the truth because it is unpopular is a blasphemer4 ,he who runs with the hounds knowing that the hare is in the right is a blasphemer4 ,in the soul of every man1 or in the temple inhabited by the soul1 there is one niche in which can be found the statue of the ideal4 ,in the presence of this statue the good man worships--the bad man blasphemes--that is to say1 he is not true to the ideal4 ,a man who slanders a pure woman or an honest man is a blasphemer4 ,so1 too1 a man who does not give the honest transcript of his mind is a blasphemer4 ,if a man really thinks the character of ,jehovah1 as portrayed in the ,old ,testament1 is good1 and he denounces ,jehovah as bad1 he is a blasphemer4 ,if he really believes that the character of ,jehovah1 as portrayed in the ,old ,testament1 is bad1 and he pronounces it good1 he is a blasphemer and a coward4 ,all laws against blasphemy have been passed by the numerically strong and intellectually weak4 ,these laws have been passed by those who1 finding no help in logic1 appealed to the legislature4 ,back of all these superstitions you will find some self-interest4 ,i do not say that this is true in every case1 but ,i do say that if priests had not been fond of mutton1 lambs never would have been sacrificed to ,god4 ,nothing was ever carried to the temple that the priest could not use1 and it always so happened that ,god wanted what his agents liked4 ,now1 ,i will not say that all priests have been priests for revenue only1 but ,i must say that the history of the world tends to show that the sacerdotal class prefer revenue without religion to religion without revenue4 ,i am much obliged to the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,king for admitting that an infidel has a right to publish his views at his own expense1 and with the utmost cheerfulness ,i accord that right to a ,christian4 ,the only thing ,i have ever objected to is the publication of his views at the expense of others4 ,i cannot admit1 however1 that the ideas contained in what is known as the ,christmas ,sermon are revolting to a vast majority of the people who give character to the community in which we live4 ,i suppose that a very large majority of men and women who disagree with me are perfectly satisfied that ,i have the right to disagree with them1 and that ,i do not disagree with them to any greater degree than they disagree with me4 ,and ,i also imagine that a very large majority of intelligent people are perfectly willing to hear the other side4 ,i do not regard religious opinions or political opinions as exotics that have to be kept under glass1 protected from the frosts of common sense or the tyrannous north wind of logic4 ,such plants are hardly worth preserving4 ,they certainly ought to be hardy enough to stand the climate of free discussion1 and if they cannot1 the sooner they die the better4 ,i do not think there was anything blasphemous or impure in the words published by1 the ,telegram4 ,the most that can possibly be said against them1 calculated to excite the prejudice of ,christians1 is that they were true--that they cannot be answered except by abuse4 ,it is not possible1 in this day and generation1 to stay the rising flood of intellectual freedom by keeping the names of thinkers out of print4 ,the church has had the field for eighteen hundred years4 ,for most of this time it has held the sword and purse of the world4 ,for many centuries it controlled colleges and universities and schools4 ,it had within its gift wealth and honor4 ,it held the keys1 so far as this world is concerned1 of heaven and hell--that is to say1 of prosperity and misfortune4 ,it pursued its enemies even to the grave4 ,it reddened the scaffold with the best blood1 and kept the sword of persecution wet for many centuries4 ,thousands and thousands have died in its dungeons4 ,millions of reputations have been blasted by its slanders4 ,it has made millions of widows and orphans1 and it has not only ruled this world1 but it has pretended to hold the keys of eternity1 and under this pretence it has sentenced countless millions to eternal flames4 ,at last the spirit of independence rose against its monstrous assumptions4 ,it has been growing some-what weaker4 ,it has been for many years gradually losing its power4 ,the sword of the state belongs now to the people4 ,the partnership between altar and throne has in many countries been dissolved4 ,the adulterous marriage of church and state has ceased to exist4 ,men are beginning to express their honest thoughts4 ,in the arena where speech is free1 superstition is driven to the wall4 ,man relies more and more on the facts in nature1 and the real priest is the interpreter of nature4 ,the pulpit is losing its power4 ,in a little while religion will take its place with astrology1 with the black art1 and its ministers will take rank with magicians and sleight-of-hand performers4 ,with regard to the letter of the ,rev4 ,thomas ,dixon1 ,jr41 ,i have but little to say4 ,i am glad that he believes in a free platform and a free press--that he1 like ,lucretia ,mott1 believes in truth for authority1 and not authority for truth4 ,at the same time ,i do not see how the fact that ,i am not a scientist has the slightest bearing upon the question2 but if there is any fact that ,i have avoided or misstated1 then ,i wish that fact to be pointed out4 ,i admit also1 that ,i am a sentimentalist--that is1 that ,i am governed1 to a certain extent1 by sentiment--that my mind is so that cruelty is revolting and that mercy excites my love and admiration4 ,i admit that ,i am so much of a sentimentalist that ,i have no love for the ,jehovah of the ,old ,testament1 and that it is impossible for me to believe a creed that fills the prison house of hell with countless billions of men1 women and children4 ,i am also glad that the reverend gentleman admits that ,i have stabbed to the heart hundreds of superstitions and lies1 and ,i hope to stab many1 many more1 and if ,i succeed in stabbing all lies to the heart there will be no foundation left for what ,i called orthodox ,christianity--but goodness will survive1 justice will live1 and the flower of mercy will shed its perfume forever4 ,when we take into consideration the fact that the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,dixon is a minister and believes that he is called upon to deliver to the people a divine message1 ,i do not wonder that he makes the following assertion3 ,if ,god could choose ,balaam's ass to speak a divine message1 ,i do not see why he could not utilize the ,colonel4 ,it is natural for a man to justify himself and to defend his own occupation4 ,mr4 ,dixon1 however1 will remember that the ass was much superior to the prophet of ,god1 and that the argument was all on the side of the ass4 ,and1 furthermore1 that the spiritual discernment of the ass far exceeded that of the prophet4 ,it was the ass who saw the angel when the prophet's eye was dim4 ,i suggest to the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,dixon that he read the account once more1 and he will find3-- ,first1 that the ass first saw the angel of the ,lord2 second1 that the prophet ,balaam was cruel1 unreasonable1 and brutal2 third1 that the prophet so lost his temper that he wanted to kill the innocent ass1 and the ass1 not losing her temper1 reasoned with the prophet and demonstrated not only her intellectual but her moral superiority4 ,in addition to all this the angel of the ,lord had to open the eyes of the prophet--in other words1 had to work a miracle--in order to make the prophet equal to the ass1 and not only so1 but rebuked him for his cruelty4 ,and this same angel admitted that without any miracle whatever the ass saw him--the angel--showing that the spiritual discernment of the ass in those days was far superior to that of the prophet4 ,i regret that the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,king loses his temper and that the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,dixon is not quite polite4 ,all of us should remember that passion clouds the judgment1 and that he who seeks for victory loses sight of the cause4 ,and there is another thing3 ,he who has absolute confidence in the justice of his position can afford to be good-natured4 ,strength is the foundation of kindness2 weakness is often malignant1 and when argument fails passion comes to the rescue4 ,let us be good-natured4 ,let us have respect for the rights of each other4 ,the course pursued by the ,telegram is worthy of all praise4 ,it has not only been just to both sides1 but it has been--as is its custom--true to the public4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,,ingersoll ,,again ,,answers ,,his ,,critics4 ,,iv4 ,to the ,editor of the ,evening ,telegram 3 ,,some of the gentlemen who have given their ideas through the columns of the ,telegram have wandered from the questions under discussion4 ,it may be well enough to state what is really in dispute4 ,i was called to account for having stated that ,christianity did not bring tidings of great joy1 but a message of eternal grief--that it filled the future with fear and flame--made ,god the keeper of an eternal penitentiary1 in which most of the children of men were to be imprisoned forever1 and that1 not satisfied with that1 it had deprived ,god of the pardoning power4 ,these statements were called mountainous lies by the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,buckley1 and because the ,telegram had published the ,christmas ,sermon containing these statements1 he insisted that such a paper should not be allowed in the families of ,christians or of ,jews--in other words1 that the ,telegram should be punished1 and that good people should refuse to allow that sheet to come into their homes4 ,it will probably be admitted by all fair-minded people that if the orthodox creeds be true1 then ,christianity was and is the bearer of a message of eternal grief1 and a large majority of the human race are to become eternal convicts1 and ,god has deprived himself of the pardoning power4 ,according to those creeds1 no word of mercy to any of the lost can ever fall from the lips of the ,infinite4 ,the ,universalists deny that such was or is the real message of ,christianity4 ,they insist that all are finally to be saved4 ,if that doctrine be true1 then ,i admit that ,christianity came with tidings of great joy4 ,personally ,i have no quarrel with the ,univer-salist ,church4 ,i have no quarrel with any creed that expresses hope for all of the human race4 ,i find fault with no one for filling the future with joy--for dreaming splendid dreams and for uttering splendid prophecies4 ,i do not object to ,christianity because it promises heaven to a few1 but because it threatens the many with perdition4 ,it does not seem possible to me that a ,god who loved men to that degree that he died that they might be saved1 abandons his children the moment they are dead4 ,it seems to me that an infinite ,god might do something for a soul after it has reached the other world4 ,is it possible that infinite wisdom can do no more than is done for a majority of souls in this world8 ,think of the millions born in ignorance and filth1 raised in poverty and crime4 ,think of the millions who are only partially developed in this world4 ,think of the weakness of the will1 of the power of passion4 ,think of the temptations innumerable4 ,think1 too1 of the tyranny of man1 of the arrogance of wealth and position1 of the sufferings of the weak--and can we then say that an infinite ,god has done1 in this world1 all that could be done for the salvation of his children8 ,is it not barely possible that something may be done in another world8 ,is there nothing left for ,god to do for a poor1 ignorant1 criminal human soul after it leaves this world8 ,can ,god do nothing except to pronounce the sentence of eternal pain8 ,i insist that if the orthodox creed be true1 ,christianity did not come with tidings of great joy1 but that its message was and is one of eternal grief4 ,if the orthodox creed be true1 the universe is a vast blunder--an infinite crime4 ,better1 a thousand times1 that every pulse of life should cease--better that all the gods should fall palsied from their thrones1 than that the creed of ,christendom should be true4 ,there is another question and that involves the freedom of the press4 ,the ,telegram has acted with the utmost fairness and with the highest courage4 ,after all1 the ,american people admire the man who takes his stand and bravely meets all comers4 ,to be an instrumentality of progress1 the press must be free4 ,only the free can carry a torch4 ,liberty sheds light4 ,the editor or manager of a newspaper occupies a public position1 and he must not treat his patrons as though they were weak and ignorant children4 ,he must not1 in the supposed interest of any ism1 suppress the truth--neither must he be dictated to by any church or any society of believers or unbelievers4 ,the ,telegram1 by its course1 has given a certificate of its manliness1 and the public1 by its course1 has certified that it appreciates true courage4 ,all ,christians should remember that facts are not sectarian1 and that the sciences are not bound by the creeds4 ,we should remember that there are no such things as ,methodist mathematics1 or ,baptist botany1 or ,catholic chemistry4 ,the sciences are secular4 4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,peters seems to have mistaken the issues--and yet1 in some things1 ,i agree with him4 ,he is certainly right when he says that ,mr4 ,buckley's cry to boycott the ,telegram is unmanly and un-,american1 but ,i am not certain that he is right when he says that it is un-,christian4 ,the church has not been in the habit of pursuing enemies with kind words and charitable deeds4 ,to tell the truth1 it has always been rather relentless4 ,it has preached forgiveness1 but it has never forgiven4 ,there is in the history of ,christendom no instance where the church has extended the hand of friendship to a man who denied the truth of its creed4 ,there is in the church no spirit--no climate--of compromise4 ,in the nature of things there can be none1 because the church claims that it is absolutely right--that there is only one road leading to heaven4 ,it demands unconditional surrender4 ,it will not bear contradiction4 ,it claims to have the absolute truth4 ,for these reasons it cannot consistently compromise1 any more than a mathematician could change the multiplication table to meet the view of some one who should deny that five times five are twenty-five4 ,the church does not give its opinion--it claims to know--it demands belief4 ,honesty1 industry1 generosity count for nothing in the absence of belief4 ,it has taught and still teaches that no man can reach heaven simply through good and honest deeds4 ,it believes and teaches that the man who relies upon himself will be eternally punished--and why should the church forgive a man whom it thinks its ,god is waiting somewhat impatiently to damn8 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,peters asks--and probably honestly thinks that the questions are pertinent to the issues involved--,what has infidelity done for the world8 ,what colleges1 hospitals1 and schools has it founded8 ,what has it done for the elevation of public morals8 ,and he inquires what science or art has been originated by infidelity4 ,he asks how many slaves it has liberated1 how many inebriates it has reclaimed1 how many fallen women it has restored1 and what it did for the relief of the wounded and dying soldiers2 and concludes by asking what life it ever assisted to higher holiness1 and what death it has ever cheered4 ,although these questions have nothing whatever to do with the matters under discussion1 still it may be well enough to answer them4 ,it is cheerfully admitted that hospitals and asylums have been built by ,christians in ,christian countries1 and it is also admitted that hospitals and asylums have been built in countries not ,christian2 that there were such institutions in ,china thousands of years before ,christ was born1 and that many centuries before the establishment of any orthodox church there were asylums on the banks of the ,nile--asylums for the old1 the poor1 the infirm--asylums for the blind and for the insane1 and that the ,egyptians1 even of those days1 endeavored to cure insanity with kindness and affection4 ,the same is true of ,india and probably of most ancient nations4 ,there has always been more or less humanity in man--more or less goodness in the human heart4 ,so far as we know1 mothers have always loved their children4 ,there must always have been more good than evil1 otherwise the human race would have perished4 ,the best things in the ,christian religion came from the heart of man4 ,pagan lips uttered the sublimest of truths1 and all ages have been redeemed by honesty1 heroism1 and love4 ,but let me answer these questions in their order4 ,first--,as to the schools4 ,it is most cheerfully admitted that the ,catholics have always been in favor of education--that is to say1 of education enough to make a ,catholic out of a heathen4 ,it is also admitted that ,protestants have always been in favor of enough education to make a ,protestant out of a ,catholic4 ,many schools and many colleges have been established for the spread of what is called the ,gospel and for the education of the clergy4 ,presbyterians have founded schools for the benefit of their creed4 ,the ,methodists have established colleges for the purpose of making ,methodists4 ,the same is true of nearly all the sects4 ,as a matter of fact1 these schools have in many important directions hindered rather than helped the cause of real education4 ,the pupils were not taught to investigate for themselves4 ,they were not allowed to think4 ,they were told that thought is dangerous4 ,they were stuffed and crammed with creeds--with the ideas of others4 ,their credulity was applauded and their curiosity condemned4 ,if all the people had been educated in these sectarian schools1 all the people would have been far more ignorant than they are4 ,these schools have been1 and most of them still are1 the enemies of higher education1 and just to the extent that they are under the control of theologians they are hindrances1 and just to the extent that they have become secularized they have been and are a benefit4 ,our public-school system is not ,christian4 ,it is secular4 ,yet ,i admit that it never could have been established without the assistance of ,christians--neither could it have been supported without the assistance of others4 ,but such is the value placed upon education that people of nearly all denominations1 and of nearly all religions1 and of nearly all opinions1 for the most part agree that the children of a nation should be educated by the nation4 ,some religious people are opposed to these schools because they are not religious--because they do not teach some creed--but a large majority of the people stand by the public schools as they are4 ,these schools are growing better and better1 simply because they are growing less and less theological1 more and more secular4 ,infidelity1 or agnosticism1 or free thought1 has insisted that only that should be taught in schools which somebody knows or has good reason to believe4 ,the greatest professors in our colleges to-day are those who have the least confidence in the supernatural1 and the schools that stand highest in the estimation of the most intelligent are those that have drifted farthest from the orthodox creeds4 ,free thought has always been and ever must be the friend of education4 ,without free thought there can be no such thing--in the highest sense--as a school4 ,unless the mind is free1 there are no teachers and there are no pupils1 in any just and splendid sense4 ,the church has been and still is the enemy of education1 because it has been in favor of intellectual slavery1 and the theological schools have been what might be called the deformatories of the human mind4 ,for instance3 ,a man is graduated from an orthodox university4 ,in this university he has studied astronomy1 and yet he believes that ,joshua stopped the sun4 ,he has studied geology1 and yet he asserts the truth of the ,mosaic cosmogony4 ,he has studied chemistry1 and yet believes that water was turned into wine4 ,he has been taught the ordinary theory of cause and effect1 and at the same time he thoroughly believes in the miraculous multiplication of loaves and fishes4 ,can such an institution1 with any propriety1 be called a seat of learning8 ,can we not say of such a university what ,bruno said of ,oxford3 ,learning is dead and ,oxford is its widow4 ,year after year the religious colleges are improving--simply because they are becoming more and more secular1 less and less theological4 ,whether infidelity has founded universities or not1 it can truthfully be said that the spirit of investigation1 the spirit of free thought1 the attitude of mental independence1 contended for by those who are called infidels1 have made schools useful instead of hurtful4 ,can it be shown that any infidel has ever raised his voice against education8 ,can there be found in the literature of free thought one line against the enlightenment of the human race8 ,has free thought ever endeavored to hide or distort1 a fact8 ,has it not always appealed to the senses--to demonstration8 ,it has not said1 ,he that hath ears to hear1 let him hear1 but it has said1 ,he that hath brains to think1 let him think4 ,the object of a school should be to ascertain truth in every direction1 to the end that man may know the conditions of happiness--and every school should be absolutely free4 ,no teacher should be bound by anything except a perceived fact4 ,he should not be the slave of a creed1 engaged in the business of enslaving others4 ,so much for schools4 ,second--,as to public morals4 ,christianity teaches that all offences can be forgiven4 ,every church unconsciously allows people to commit crimes on a credit4 ,i do not mean by this that any church consciously advocates immorality4 ,i most cheerfully admit that thousands and thousands of ministers are endeavoring to do good--that they are pure1 self-denying men1 trying to make this world better4 ,but there is a frightful defect in their philosophy4 ,they say to the bank cashier3 ,you must not steal1 you must not take a dollar--larceny is wrong1 it is contrary to all law1 human and divine--but if you do steal every cent in the bank1 ,god will as gladly1 quickly forgive you in ,canada as he will in the ,united ,states4 ,on the other hand1 what is called infidelity says3 ,there is no being in the universe who rewards1 and there is no being who punishes--every act has its consequences4 ,if the act is good1 the consequences are good2 if the act is bad1 the consequences are bad2 and these consequences must be borne by the actor4 ,it says to every human being3 ,you must reap what you sow4 ,there is no reward1 there is no punishment1 but there are consequences1 and these consequences are the invisible and implacable police of nature4 ,they cannot be avoided4 ,they cannot be bribed4 ,no power can awe them1 and there is not gold enough in the world to make them pause4 ,even a ,god cannot induce them to release for one instant their victim4 ,this great truth is1 in my judgment1 the gospel of morality4 ,if all men knew that they must inevitably bear the consequences of their own actions--if they absolutely knew that they could not injure another without injuring themselves1 the world1 in my judgment1 would be far better than it is4 ,free thought has attacked the morality of what is called the atonement4 ,the innocent should not suffer for the guilty1 and if the innocent does suffer for the guilty1 that cannot by any possibility justify the guilty4 ,the reason a thing is wrong is because it1 in some way1 causes the innocent to suffer4 ,this being the very essence of wrong1 how can the suffering of innocence justify the guilty8 ,if there be a world of joy1 he who is worthy to enter that world must be willing to carry his own burdens in this4 ,so much for morality4 ,third--,as to sciences and art4 ,i do not believe that we are indebted to ,christianity for any science4 ,i do not remember that one science is mentioned in the ,new ,testament4 ,there is not one word1 so far as ,i remember1 about education--nothing about any science1 nothing about art4 ,the writers of the ,new ,testament seem to have thought that the world was about coming to an end4 ,this world was to be sacrificed absolutely to the next4 ,the affairs of this life were not worth speaking of4 ,all people were exhorted to prepare at once for the other life4 ,the sciences have advanced in the proportion that they did not interfere with orthodox theology4 ,to the extent that they were supposed to interfere with theology they have been obstructed and denounced4 ,astronomy was found to be inconsistent with the ,scriptures1 and the astronomers were imprisoned and despised4 ,geology contradicted the ,mosaic account1 and the geologists were denounced and persecuted4 ,every step taken in astronomy was taken in spite of the church1 and every fact in geology had to fight its way4 ,the same is true as to the science of medicine4 ,the church wished to cure disease by necromancy1 by charm and prayer1 and with the bones of the saints4 ,the church wished man to rely entirely upon ,god--that is to say1 upon the church--and not upon himself4 ,the physician interfered with the power and prosperity of the priest1 and those who appealed to physicians were denounced as lacking faith in ,god4 ,this state of things existed even in the ,old ,testament times4 ,a king failed to send for the prophets1 but sent for a physician1 and then comes this piece of grim humor3 ,and ,asa slept with his fathers4 ,the great names in science are not those of recognized saints4 ,bruno--one of the greatest and bravest of men--greatest of all martyrs--perished at the stake1 because he insisted on the existence of other worlds and taught the astronomy of ,galileo4 ,humboldt--in some respects the wisest man known to the scientific world--denied the existence of the supernatural and the truths of revealed religion1 and yet he revolutionized the thought of his day and left a legacy of intellectual glory to the race4 ,darwin--greatest of scientists--so great that our time will probably be known as ,darwin's ,century--had not the slightest confidence in any possible phase of the so-called supernatural4 ,this great man left the creed of ,christendom without a foundation4 ,he brought as witnesses against the inspiration of the ,scriptures such a multitude of facts1 such an overwhelming amount of testimony1 that it seems impossible to me that any unprejudiced man can1 after hearing the testimony1 remain a believer in evangelical religion4 ,he accomplished more than all the schools1 colleges1 and universities that ,christianity has founded4 ,he revolutionized the philosophy of the civilized world4 ,the writers who have done most for science have been the most bitterly opposed by the church4 ,there is hardly a valuable book in the libraries of the world that cannot be found on the ,index ,expurgatorius4 ,kant and ,fichte and ,spinoza were far above and beyond the orthodox-world4 ,voltaire did more for freedom than any other man1 and yet the church denounced him with a fury amounting to insanity--called him an atheist1 although he believed not only in ,god1 but in special providence4 ,he was opposed to the church--that is to say1 opposed to slavery1 and for that reason he was despised4 ,and what shall ,i say of ,d',holbach1 of ,hume1 of ,buckle1 of ,draper1 of ,haeckel1 of ,buechner1 of ,tyndall and ,huxley1 of ,auguste ,comte1 and hundreds and thousands of others who have filled the scientific world with light and the heart of man with love and kindness8 ,it may be well enough1 in regard to art1 to say that ,christianity is indebted to ,greece and ,rome for its highest conceptions1 and it may be well to add that for many centuries ,christianity did the best it could to destroy the priceless marbles of ,greece and ,rome4 ,a few were buried1 and in that way were saved from ,christian fury4 ,the same is true of the literature of the classic world4 ,a few fragments were rescued1 and these became the seeds of modern literature4 ,a few statues were preserved1 and they are to-day models for all the world4 ,of course it will be admitted that there is much art in ,christian lands1 because1 in spite of the creeds1 ,christians1 so-called1 have turned their attention to this world4 ,they have beautified their homes1 they have endeavored to clothe themselves in purple and fine linen4 ,they have been forced from banquets or from luxury by the difficulty of camels going through the eyes of needles or the impossibility of carrying water to the rich man4 ,they have cultivated this world1 and the arts have lived4 ,did they obey the precepts that they find in their sacred writings there would be no art1 they would take no thought for the morrow1 they would consider the lilies of the field4 ,fourth--,as to the liberation of slaves4 ,it was exceedingly unfortunate for the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,peters that he spoke of slavery4 ,the ,bible upholds human slavery--white slavery4 ,the ,bible was quoted by all slaveholders and slave-traders4 ,the man who went to ,africa to steal women and children took the ,bible with him4 ,he planted himself firmly on the ,word of ,god4 ,as ,whittier says of ,whitefield3 ,he bade the slave ship speed from coast to coast1 ,fanned by the wings of the ,holy ,ghost4 ,so when the poor wretches were sold to the planters1 the planters defended their action by reading the ,bible4 ,when a poor woman was sold1 her children torn from her breast1 the auction block on which she stood was the ,bible2 the auctioneer who sold her quoted the ,scriptures2 the man who bought her repeated the quotations1 and the ministers from the pulpit said to the weeping woman1 as her child was carried away3 ,servants1 be obedient unto your masters4 ,freethinkers in all ages have been opposed to slavery4 ,thomas ,paine did more for human liberty than any other man who ever stood upon the western world4 ,the first article he ever wrote in this country was one against the institution of slavery4 ,freethinkers have also been in favor of free bodies4 ,freethinkers have always said free hands1 and the infidels1 the wide world over1 have been friends of freedom4 ,fifth--,as to the reclamation of inebriates4 ,much has been said1 and for many years1 on the subject of temperance--much has been uttered by priests and laymen--and yet there seems to be a subtle relation between rum and religion4 ,scotland is extremely orthodox1 yet it is not extremely temperate4 ,england is nothing if not religious1 and ,london is1 par excellence1 the ,christian city of the world1 and yet it is the most intemperate4 ,the ,mohammedans--followers of a false prophet--do not drink4 ,sixth--,as to the humanity of infidelity4 ,can it be said that people have cared for the wounded and dying only because they were orthodox8 ,is it not true that religion1 in its efforts to propagate the creed of forgiveness by the sword1 has caused the death of more than one hundred and fifty millions of human beings8 ,is it not true that where the church has cared for one orphan it has created hundreds8 ,can ,christianity afford to speak of war8 ,the ,christian nations of the world to-day are armed against each other4 ,in ,europe1 all that can be gathered by taxation--all that can be borrowed by pledging the prosperity of the future--the labor of those yet unborn--is used for the purpose of keeping ,christians in the field1 to the end that they may destroy other ,christians1 or at least prevent other ,christians from destroying them4 ,europe is covered with churches and fortifications1 with temples and with forts--hundreds of thousands of priests1 millions of soldiers1 countless ,bibles and countless bayonets--and that whole country is oppressed and impoverished for the purpose of carrying on war4 ,the people have become deformed by labor1 and yet ,christianity boasts of peace4 ,seventh--,and what death has infidelity ever cheered8 ,is it possible for the orthodox ,christian to cheer the dying when the dying is told that there is a world of eternal pain1 and that he1 unless he has been forgiven1 is to be an eternal convict8 ,will it cheer him to know that1 even if he is to be saved1 countless millions are to be lost8 ,is it possible for the ,christian religion to put a smile upon the face of death8 ,on the other hand1 what is called infidelity says to the dying3 ,what happens to you will happen to all4 ,if there be another world of joy1 it is for all4 ,if there is another life1 every human being will have the eternal opportunity of doing right--the eternal opportunity to live1 to reform1 to enjoy4 ,there is no monster in the sky4 ,there is no ,moloch who delights in the agony of his children4 ,these frightful things are savage dreams4 ,infidelity puts out the fires of hell with the tears of pity4 ,infidelity puts the seven-hued arch of ,hope over every grave4 ,let us then1 gentlemen1 come back to the real questions under discussion4 ,let us not wander away4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,jan'y #i1 #ahia4 ,,ingersoll ,,continues ,,the ,,battle4 ,v4 ,,no one objects to the morality of ,christianity4 ,the industrious people of the world--those who have anything--are1 as a rule1 opposed to larceny2 a very large majority of people object to being murdered1 and so we have laws against larceny and murder4 ,a large majority of people believe in what they call1 or what they understand to be1 justice--at least as between others4 ,there is no very great difference of opinion among civilized people as to what is or is not moral4 ,it cannot truthfully be said that the man who attacks ,buddhism attacks all morality4 ,he does not attack goodness1 justice1 mercy1 or anything that tends in his judgment to the welfare of mankind2 but he attacks ,buddhism4 ,so one attacking what is called ,christianity does not attack kindness1 charity1 or any virtue4 ,he attacks something that has been added to the virtues4 ,he does not attack the flower1 but what he believes to be the parasite4 ,if people1 when they speak of ,christianity1 include the virtues common to all religions1 they should not give ,christianity credit for all the good that has been done4 ,there were millions of virtuous men and women1 millions of heroic and self-denying souls before ,christianity was known4 ,it does not seen possible to me that love1 kindness1 justice1 or charity ever caused any one who possessed and practiced these virtues to persecute his fellow-man on account of a difference of belief4 ,if ,christianity has persecuted1 some reason must exist outside of the virtues it has inculcated4 ,if this reason--this cause--is inherent in that something else1 which has been added to the ordinary virtues1 then ,christianity can properly be held accountable for the persecution4 ,of course back of ,christianity is the nature of man1 and1 primarily1 it may be responsible4 ,is there anything in ,christianity that will account for such persecutions--for the ,inquisition8 ,it certainly was taught by the church that belief was necessary to salvation1 and it was thought at the same time that the fate of man was eternal punishment2 that the state of man was that of depravity1 and that there was but one way by which he could be saved1 and that was through belief--through faith4 ,as long as this was honestly believed1 ,christians would not allow heretics or infidels to preach a doctrine to their wives1 to their children1 or to themselves which1 in their judgment1 would result in the damnation of souls4 ,the law gives a father the right to kill one who is about to do great bodily harm to his son4 ,now1 if a father has the right to take the life of a man simply because he is attacking the body of his son1 how much more would he have the right to take the life of one who was about to assassinate the soul of his son6 ,christians reasoned in this way4 ,in addition to this1 they felt that ,god would hold the community responsible if the community allowed a blasphemer to attack the true religion4 ,therefore they killed the freethinker1 or rather the free talker1 in self-defence4 ,at the bottom of religious persecution is the doctrine of self-defence2 that is to say1 the defence of the soul4 ,if the founder of ,christianity had plainly said3 ,it is not necessary to believe in order to be saved2 it is only necessary to do1 and he who really loves his fellow-men1 who is kind1 honest1 just and charitable1 is to be forever blest--if he had only said that1 there would probably have been but little persecution4 ,if he had added to this3 ,you must not persecute in my name4 ,the religion ,i teach is the ,religion of ,love--not the ,religion of ,force and ,hatred4 ,you must not imprison your fellow-men4 ,you must not stretch them upon racks1 or crush their bones in iron boots4 ,you must not flay them alive4 ,you must not cut off their eyelids1 or pour molten lead into their ears4 ,you must treat all with absolute kindness4 ,if you cannot convert your neighbor by example1 persuasion1 argument1 that is the end4 ,you must never resort to force1 and1 whether he believes as you do or not1 treat him always with kindness--his followers then would not have murdered their fellows in his name4 ,if ,christ was in fact ,god1 he knew the persecutions that would be carried on in his name2 he knew the millions that would suffer death through torture2 and yet he died without saying one word to prevent what he must have known1 if he were ,god1 would happen4 ,all that ,christianity has added to morality is worthless and useless4 ,not only so--it has been hurtful4 ,take ,christianity from morality and the useful is left1 but take morality from ,christianity and the useless remains4 ,now1 falling back on the old assertion1 ,by its fruits we may know ,christianity1 then ,i think we are justified in saying that1 as ,christianity consists of a mixture of morality and something else1 and as morality never has persecuted a human being1 and as ,christianity has persecuted millions1 the cause of the persecution must be the something else that was added to morality4 ,i cannot agree with the reverend gentleman when he says that ,christianity has taught mankind the priceless value and dignity of human nature4 ,on the other hand1 ,christianity has taught that the whole human race is by nature depraved1 and that if ,god should act in accordance with his sense of justice1 all the sons of men would be doomed to eternal pain4 ,human nature has been derided1 has been held up to contempt and scorn1 all our desires and passions denounced as wicked and filthy4 ,dr4 ,da ,costa asserts that ,christianity has taught mankind the value of freedom4 ,it certainly has not been the advocate of free thought2 and what is freedom worth if the mind is to be enslaved8 ,dr4 ,da ,costa knows that millions have been sacrificed in their efforts to be free2 that is1 millions have been sacrificed for exercising their freedom as against the church4 ,it is not true that the church has taught and established the fact of human brotherhood4 ,this has been the result of a civilization to which ,christianity itself has been hostile4 ,can we prove that the church established human brotherhood by banishing the ,jews from ,spain2 by driving out the ,moors2 by the tortures of the ,inquisition2 by butchering the ,covenanters of ,scotland2 by the burning of ,bruno and ,servetus2 by the persecution of the ,irish2 by whipping and hanging ,quakers in ,new ,england2 by the slave trade2 and by the hundreds of wars waged in the name of ,christ8 ,we all know that the ,bible upholds slavery in its very worst and most cruel form2 and how it can be said that a religion founded upon a ,bible that upholds the institution of slavery has taught and established the fact of human brotherhood1 is beyond my imagination to conceive4 ,neither do ,i think it true that we are indebted to ,christianity for the advancement of science1 art1 philosophy1 letters and learning4 ,i cheerfully admit that we are indebted to ,christianity for some learning1 and that the human mind has been developed by the discussion of the absurdities of superstition4 ,certainly millions and millions have had what might be called mental exercise1 and their minds may have been somewhat broadened by the examination1 even1 of these absurdities1 contradictions1 and impossibilities4 ,the church was not the friend of science or learning when it burned ,vanini for writing his ,dialogues ,concerning ,nature4 ,what shall we say of the ,index ,expurgatorius8 ,for hundreds of years all books of any particular value were placed on the ,index1 and good ,catholics forbidden to read them4 ,was this in favor of science and learning8 ,that we are indebted to ,christianity for the advancement of science seems absurd4 ,what science8 ,christianity was certainly the enemy of astronomy1 and ,i believe that it was ,mr4 ,draper who said that astronomy took her revenge1 so that not a star that glitters in all the heavens bears a ,christian name4 ,can it be said that the church has been the friend of geology1 or of any true philosophy8 ,let me show how this is impossible4 ,the church accepts the ,bible as an inspired book4 ,then the only object is to find its meaning1 and if that meaning is opposed to any result that the human mind may have reached1 the meaning stands and the result reached by the mind must be abandoned4 ,for hundreds of years the ,bible was the standard1 and whenever anything was asserted in any science contrary to-the ,bible1 the church immediately denounced the scientist4 ,i admit the standard has been changed1 and ministers are very busy1 not trying to show that science does not agree with the ,bible1 but that the ,bible agrees with science4 ,certainly ,christianity has done little for art4 ,the early ,christians destroyed all the marbles of ,greece and ,rome upon which they could lay their violent hands2 and nothing has been produced by the ,christian world equal to the fragments that were accidentally preserved4 ,there have been many artists who were ,christians2 but they were not artists because they were ,christians2 because there have been many ,christians who were not artists4 ,it cannot be said that art is born of any creed4 ,the mode of expression may be determined1 and probably is to a certain degree1 by the belief of the artist2 but not his artistic perception and feeling4 ,so1 ,galileo did not make his discoveries because he was a ,christian1 but in spite of it4 ,his ,bible was the other way1 and so was his creed4 ,consequently1 they could not by any possibility have assisted him4 ,kepler did not discover or announce what are known as the ,three ,laws because he was a ,christian2 but1 as ,i said about ,galileo1 in spite of his creed4 ,every ,christian who has really found out and demonstrated and clung to a fact inconsistent with the absolute inspiration of the ,scriptures1 has done so certainly without the assistance of his creed4 ,let me illustrate this3 ,when our ancestors were burning each other to please ,god2 when they were ready to destroy a man with sword and flame for teaching the rotundity of the world1 the ,moors in ,spain were teaching geography to their children with brass globes4 ,so1 too1 they had observatories and knew something of the orbits of the stars4 ,they did not find out these things because they were ,mohammedans1 or on account of their belief in the impossible4 ,they were far beyond the ,christians1 intellectually1 and it has been very poetically said by ,mrs4 ,browning1 that ,science was thrust into the brain of ,europe on the point of a ,moorish lance4 ,from the ,arabs we got our numerals1 making mathematics of the higher branches practical4 ,we also got from them the art of making cotton paper1 which is almost at the foundation of modern intelligence4 ,we learned from them to make cotton cloth1 making cleanliness possible in ,christendom4 ,so from among people of different religions we have learned many useful things2 but they did not discover them on account of their religion4 ,it will not do to say that the religion of ,greece was true because the ,greeks were the greatest sculptors4 ,neither is it an argument in favor of monarchy that ,shakespeare1 the greatest of men1 was born and lived in a monarchy4 ,dr4 ,da ,costa takes one of the effects of a general cause1 or of a vast number of causes1 and makes it the cause1 not only of other effects1 but of the general cause4 ,he seems to think that all events for many centuries1 and especially all the good ones1 were caused by ,christianity4 ,as a matter of fact1 the civilization of our time is the result of countless causes with which ,christianity had little to do1 except by way of hindrance4 ,does the ,doctor think that the material progress of the world was caused by this passage3 ,take no thought for the morrow8 ,does he seriously insist that the wealth of ,christendom rests on this inspired declaration3 ,it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven8 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,peters1 in answer1 takes the ground that the ,bible has produced the richest and most varied literature the world has ever seen4 ,this1 ,i think1 is hardly true4 ,has not most of modern literature been produced in spite of the ,bible8 ,did not ,christians1 for many generations1 take the ground that the ,bible was the only important book1 and that books differing from the ,bible should be destroyed8 ,if ,christianity--,catholic and ,protestant--could have had its way1 the works of ,voltaire1 ,spinoza1 ,hume1 ,paine1 ,humboldt1 ,darwin1 ,haeckel1 ,spencer1 ,comte1 ,huxley1 ,tyndall1 ,draper1 ,goethe1 ,gibbon1 ,buckle and ,buechner would not have been published4 ,in short1 the philosophy that enlightens and the fiction that enriches the brain would not exist4 ,the greatest literature the world has ever seen is1 in my judgment1 the poetic--the dramatic2 that is to say1 the literature of fiction in its widest sense4 ,certainly if the church could have had control1 the plays of ,shakespeare never would have been written2 the literature of the stage could not have existed2 most works of fiction1 and nearly all poetry1 would have perished in the brain4 ,so ,i think it hardly fair to say that the ,bible has produced the richest and most varied literature the world has ever seen4 ,thousands of theological books have been written on thousands of questions of no possible importance4 ,libraries have been printed on subjects not worth discussing--not worth thinking about--and that will1 in a few years1 be regarded as puerile by the whole world4 ,mr4 ,peters1 in his enthusiasm1 asks this question3 ,who raised our great institutions of learning8 ,infidels never a stone of them6 ,stephen ,girard founded the best institution of learning1 the best charity1 the noblest ever founded in this or any other land2 and under the roof built by his wisdom and his wealth many thousands of orphans have been reared1 clothed1 fed and educated1 not only in books1 but in avocations1 and become happy and useful citizens4 ,under his will there has been distributed to the poor1 fuel to the value of more than #ejj1jjj2 and this distribution goes on year after year4 ,one of the best observatories in the world was built by the generosity of ,james ,lick1 an infidel4 ,i call attention to these two cases simply to show that the gentleman is mistaken1 and that he was somewhat carried away by his zeal4 ,so1 too1 ,mr4 ,peters takes the ground that we are indebted to ,christianity for our chronology4 ,according to ,christianity this world has been peopled about six thousand years4 ,christian chronology gives the age of the first man1 and then gives the line from father to son down to the flood1 and from the flood down to the coming of ,christ1 showing that men have been upon the earth only about six thousand years4 ,this chronology is infinitely absurd1 and ,i do not believe that there is an intelligent1 well-educated ,christian in the world1 having examined the subject1 who will say that the ,christian chronology is correct4 ,neither can it1 ,i think1 truthfully be said that we are indebted to ,christianity for the continuation of history4 ,the best modern historians of whom ,i have any knowledge are ,voltaire1 ,hume1 ,gibbon1 ,buckle and ,draper4 ,neither can ,i admit that we are indebted to ,christianity for natural philosophy4 ,i do not deny that some natural philosophers have also been ,christians1 or1 rather1 that some ,christians have been natural philosophers to the extent that their ,christianity permitted4 ,but ,lamarck and ,humboldt and ,darwin and ,spencer and ,haeckel and ,huxley and ,tyndall have done far more for natural philosophy than they have for orthodox religion4 ,whoever believes in the miraculous must be the enemy of natural philosophy4 ,to him there is something above nature1 liable to interfere with nature4 ,such a man has two classes of ideas in his mind1 each inconsistent with the other4 ,to the extent that he believes in the supernatural he is incapacitated for dealing with the natural1 and to that extent fails to be a philosopher4 ,philosophy does not include the caprice of the ,infinite4 ,it is founded on the absolute integrity and invariability of nature4 ,neither do ,i agree with the reverend gentleman when he says that we are indebted to ,christianity for our knowledge of philology4 ,the church taught for a long time that ,hebrew was the first language and that other languages had been derived from that2 and for hundreds and hundreds of years the efforts of philologists were arrested simply because they started with that absurd assumption and believed in the ,tower of ,babel4 ,christianity cannot now take the credit for metaphysical research4 ,it has always been the enemy of metaphysical research4 ,it never has said to any human being1 ,think6 ,it has always said1 ,hear6 ,it does not ask anybody to investigate4 ,it lays down certain doctrines as absolutely true1 and1 instead of asking investigation1 it threatens every investigator with eternal pain4 ,metaphysical research is destroying what has been called ,christianity1 and ,christians have always feared it4 ,this gentleman makes another mistake1 and a very common one4 ,this is his argument3 ,christian countries are the most intelligent2 therefore they owe that intelligence to ,christianity4 ,then the next step is taken4 ,christianity1 being the best1 having produced these results1 must have been of divine origin4 ,let us see what this proves4 ,there was a time when ,egypt was the first nation in the world4 ,could not an ,egyptian1 at that time have used the same arguments that ,mr4 ,peters uses now1 to prove that the religion of ,egypt was divine8 ,could he not then have said3 ,egypt is the most intelligent1 the most civilized and the richest of all nations2 it has been made so by its religion2 its religion is1 therefore1 divine8 ,so there was a time when a ,hindoo could have made the same argument4 ,certainly this argument could have been made by a ,greek4 ,it could have been repeated by a ,roman4 ,and yet ,mr4 ,peters will not admit that the religion of ,egypt was divine1 or that the mythology of ,greece was true1 or that ,jupiter was in fact a god4 ,is it not evident to all that if the churches in ,europe had been institutions of learning2 if the domes of cathedrals had been observatories2 if priests had been teachers of the facts in nature1 the world would have been far in advance of what it is to-day8 ,countries depend on something besides their religion for progress4 ,nations with a good soil can get along quite well with an exceedingly poor religion2 and no religion yet has been good enough to give wealth or happiness to human beings where the climate and soil were bad and barren4 ,religion supports nobody4 ,it has to be supported4 ,it produces no wheat1 no corn2 it ploughs no land2 it fells no forests4 ,it is a perpetual mendicant4 ,it lives on the labor of others1 and then has the arrogance to pretend that it supports the giver4 ,mr4 ,peters makes this exceedingly strange statement3 ,every discovery in science1 invention and art has been the work of ,christian men4 ,infidels have contributed their share1 but never one of them has reached the grandeur of originality4 ,this1 ,i think1 so far as invention is concerned1 can be answered with one name--,john ,ericsson1 one of the profoundest agnostics ,i ever met4 ,i am almost certain that ,humboldt and ,goethe were original4 ,darwin was certainly regarded as such4 ,i do not wish to differ unnecessarily with ,mr4 ,peters1 but ,i have some doubts about ,morse having been the inventor of the telegraph4 ,neither can ,i admit that ,christianity abolished slavery4 ,many of the abolitionists in this country were infidels2 many of them were ,christians4 ,but the church itself did not stand for liberty4 ,the ,quakers1 ,i admit1 were1 as a rule1 on the side of freedom4 ,but the ,christians of ,new ,england persecuted these ,quakers1 whipped them from town to town1 lacerated their naked backs1 and maimed their bodied1 not only1 but took their lives4 ,mr4 ,peters asks3 ,what name is there among the world's emancipators after which you cannot write the name ',christian8' ,well1 let me give him a few--,voltaire1 ,jefferson1 ,paine1 ,franklin1 ,lincoln1 ,darwin4 ,mr4 ,peters asks3 ,why is it that in ,christian countries you find the greatest amount of physical and intellectual liberty1 the greatest freedom of thought1 speech1 and action8 ,is this true of all8 ,how about ,spain and ,portugal8 ,there is more infidelity in ,france than in ,spain1 and there is far more liberty in ,france than in ,spain4 ,there is far more infidelity in ,england than there was a century ago1 and there is far more liberty than there was a century ago4 ,there is far more infidelity in the ,united ,states than there was fifty years ago1 and a hundred infidels to-day where there was one fifty years ago2 and there is far more intellectual liberty1 far greater freedom of speech and action1 than ever before4 ,a few years ago ,italy was a ,christian country to the fullest extent4 ,now there are a thousand times more liberty and a thousand times less religion4 ,orthodoxy is dying2 ,liberty is growing4 ,mr4 ,ballou1 a grandson1 or grand-nephew1 of ,hosea ,ballou1 seems to have wandered from the faith4 ,as a rule1 ,christians insist that when one denies the religion of ,christian parents he is an exceedingly bad man1 but when he denies the religion of parents not ,christians1 and becomes a ,christian1 that he is a very faithful1 good and loving son4 ,mr4 ,ballou insists that ,god has the same right to punish us that ,nature has1 or that the ,state has4 ,i do not think he understands what ,i have said4 ,the ,state ought not to punish for the sake of punishment4 ,the ,state may imprison1 or inflict what is called punishment1 first1 for its own protection1 and1 secondly1 for the reformation of the punished4 ,if no one could do the ,state any injury1 certainly the ,state would have no right to punish under the plea of protection2 and if no human being could by any possibility be reformed1 then the excuse of reformation could not be given4 ,let us apply this3 ,if ,god be infinite1 no one can injure him4 ,therefore he need not punish anybody or damn anybody or burn anybody for his protection4 ,let us take another step4 ,punishment being justified only on two grounds--that is1 the protection of society and the reformation of the punished--how can eternal punishment be justified8 ,in the first place1 ,god does not punish to protect himself1 and1 in the second place1 if the punishment is to be forever1 he does not punish to reform the punished4 ,what excuse then is left8 ,let us take still another step4 ,if1 instead of punishment1 we say consequences1 and that every good man has the right to reap the good consequences of good actions1 and that every bad man must bear the consequences of bad actions1 then you must say to the good3 ,if you stop doing good you will lose the harvest4 ,you must say to the bad3 ,if you stop doing bad you need not increase your burdens4 ,and if it be a fact in ,nature that all must reap what they sow1 there is neither mercy nor cruelty in this fact1 and ,i hold no ,god responsible for it4 ,the trouble with the ,christian creed is that ,god is described as the one who gives rewards and the one who inflicts eternal pain4 ,there is still another trouble4 ,this ,god1 if infinite1 must have known when he created man1 exactly who would be eternally damned4 ,what right had he to create men1 knowing that they were to be damned8 ,so much for ,mr4 ,ballou4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,hillier seems to reason in a kind of circle4 ,he takes the ground1 in the first place1 that infidelity1 ,christianity1 science1 and experience all agree1 without the slightest tremor of uncertainty1 in the inexorable law that whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap4 ,he then takes the ground that1 if we wish to be rid of the harvest1 we must not sow the seed2 if we would avoid the result1 we must remove the cause2 the only way to be rid of hell is to stop doing evil2 that this1 and this only1 is the way to abolish an eternal penitentiary4 ,very good2 but that is not the point4 ,the real thing under discussion is this3 ,is this life a state of probation1 and if a man fails to live a good life here1 will he have no opportunity for reformation in another world1 if there be one8 ,can he cease to do evil in the eternal penitentiary8 and if he does1 can he be pardoned--can he be released8 ,it is admitted that man must bear the consequences of his acts4 ,if the consequences are good1 then the acts are good4 ,if the consequences are bad1 the acts are bad4 ,through experience we find that certain acts tend to unhappiness and others to happiness4 ,now1 the only question is whether we have wisdom enough to live in harmony with our conditions here2 and if we fail here1 will we have an opportunity of reforming in another world8 ,if not1 then the few years that we live here determine whether we shall be angels or devils forever4 ,it seems to me1 if there be another life1 that in that life men may do good1 and men may do evil2 and if they may do good it seems to me that they may reform4 ,i do not see why ,god1 if there be one1 should lose all interest in his children1 simply because they leave this world and go where he is4 ,is it possible that an infinite ,god does all for his children here1 in this poor ignorant world1 that it is possible for him to do1 and that if he fails to reform them here1 nothing is left to do except to make them eternal convicts8 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,haldeman mistakes my position4 ,i do not admit that an infinite ,god1 as revealed in ,nature1 has allowed men to grow up under conditions which no ordinary mortal can look at in all their concentrated agony and not break his heart4 ,i do not confess that ,god reveals himself in ,nature as an infinite ,god1 without mercy4 ,i do not admit that there is an infinite ,being anywhere responsible for the agonies and tears1 for the barbarities and horrors of this life4 ,i cannot believe that there is in the universe a ,being with power to prevent these things4 ,i hold no ,god responsible4 ,i attribute neither cruelty nor mercy to ,nature4 ,nature neither weeps nor rejoices4 ,i cannot believe that this world1 as it now is1 as it has been1 was created by an infinitely wise1 powerful1 and benevolent ,god4 ,but it is far better that we should all go down with souls unsatisfied to the dreamless grave1 to the tongueless silence of the voiceless dust1 than that countless millions of human souls should suffer forever4 ,eternal sleep is better than eternal pain4 ,eternal punishment is eternal revenge1 and can be inflicted only by an eternal monster4 ,mr4 ,george ,a4 ,locey endeavors to put his case in an extremely small compass1 and satisfies himself with really one question1 and that is3 ,if a man in good health is stricken with disease1 is assured that a physician can cure him1 but refuses to take the medicine and dies1 ought there to be any escape8 ,he concludes that the physician has done his duty2 that the patient was obdurate and suffered the penalty4 ,the application he makes is this3 ,the ,christian's 'tidings of great joy' is the message that the ,great ,physician tendered freely4 ,its acceptance is a cure certain1 and a life of eternal happiness the reward4 ,if the soul accepts1 are they not tidings of great joy2 and if the soul rejects1 is it not unreasonable on the part of ,colonel ,ingersoll to try and sneak out and throw the blame on ,god8 ,the answer to this seems easy4 ,the cases are not parallel4 ,if an infinite ,god created us all1 he knew exactly what we would do4 ,if he gave us free will it does not change the result1 because he knew how we would use the free will4 ,now1 if he knew that billions upon billions would refuse to take the remedy1 and consequently would suffer eternal pain1 why create them8 ,there would have been much less misery in the world had he left them dust4 ,what right has a ,god to make a failure8 ,why should he change dust into a sentient being1 knowing that that being was to be the heir of endless agony8 ,if the supposed physician had created the patient who refused to take the medicine1 and had so created him that he knew he would refuse to take it1 the cases might be parallel4 ,according to the orthodox creed1 millions are to be damned who never heard of the medicine or of the ,great ,physician4 ,there is one thing said by the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,talmage that ,i hardly think he could have intended4 ,possibly there has been a misprint4 ,it is the following paragraph3 ,who 7speaking of ,jesus7 has such an eye to our need2 such a lip to kiss away our sorrow2 such a hand to snatch us out of the fire2 such a foot to trample our enemies2 such a heart to embrace all our necessities8 ,what does the reverend gentleman mean by such a foot to trample our enemies8 ,this1 to me1 is a terrible line4 ,but it is in accordance with the history of the church4 ,in the name of its founder it has trampled on its enemies1 and beneath its cruel feet have perished the noblest of the world4 ,the ,rev4 ,j4 ,benson ,hamilton1 of ,brooklyn1 comes into this discussion with a great deal of heat and considerable fury4 ,he states that ,infidelity is the creed of prosperity1 but when sickness or trouble or sorrow comes he 7meaning the infidel7 does not paw nor mock nor cry ',ha6 ha6' ,he sneaks and cringes like a whipped cur1 and trembles and whines and howls4 ,the spirit of ,mr4 ,hamilton is not altogether admirable4 ,he seems to think that a man establishes the truth of his religion by being brave1 or demonstrates its falsity by trembling in the presence of death4 ,thousands of people have died for false religions and in honor of false gods4 ,their heroism did not prove the truth of the religion1 but it did prove the sincerity of their convictions4 ,a great many murderers have been hanged who exhibited on the scaffold the utmost contempt of death2 and yet this courage exhibited by dying murderers has never been appealed to in justification of murder4 ,the reverend gentleman tells again the story of the agonies endured by ,thomas ,paine when dying2 tells us that he then said that he wished his work had been thrown into the fire1 and that if the devil ever had any agency in any work he had in the writing of that book 7meaning ,the ,age of ,reason17 and that he frequently asked the ,lord ,jesus to have mercy upon him4 ,of course there is not a word of truth in this story4 ,its falsity has been demonstrated thousands and thousands of times1 and yet ministers of the ,gospel go right on repeating it just the same4 ,so this gentleman tells us that ,voltaire was accustomed to close his letters with the words1 ,crush the wretch6 7meaning ,christ74 ,this is not so4 ,he referred to superstition1 to religion1 not to ,christ4 ,this gentleman also says that ,voltaire was the prey of anguish and dread1 alternately supplicating and blaspheming ,god2 that he complained that he was abandoned by ,god2 that when he died his friends fled from the room1 declaring the sight too terrible to be endured4 ,there is not one word of truth in this4 ,everybody who has read the life of ,voltaire knows that he died with the utmost serenity4 ,let me tell you how ,voltaire died4 ,he was an old man of eighty-four4 ,he had been surrounded by the comforts of life4 ,he was a man of wealth--of genius4 ,among the literary men of the world he stood first4 ,god had allowed him to have the appearance of success4 ,his last years were filled with the intoxication of flattery4 ,he stood at the summit of his age4 ,the priests became anxious4 ,they began to fear that ,god would forget1 in a multiplicity of business1 to make a terrible example of ,voltaire4 ,toward the last of ,may1 #aghh1 it was whispered in ,paris that ,voltaire was dying4 ,upon the fences of expectation gathered the unclean birds of superstition1 impatiently waiting for their prey4 ,two days before his death his nephew went to seek the ,cure of ,st4 ,sulpice and the ,abbe ,gautier1 and brought them into his uncle's sick-chamber1 who was informed that they were there4 ',ah1 well1' said ,voltaire2 'give them my compliments and my thanks4' ,the abbe spoke some words to ,voltaire1 exhorting him to patience4 ,the ,cure of ,st4 ,sulpice then came forward1 having announced himself1 and asked ,voltaire1 lifting his voice1 if he acknowledged the divinity of our ,lord ,jesus ,christ4 ,the sick man pushed one of his hands against the cure's coif shoving him back1 and cried1 turning abruptly to the other side3 ',let me die in peace6' ,the cure seemingly considered his person soiled and his coif dishonored by the touch of the philosopher4 ,he made the nurse give him a little brushing and went out with the ,abbe ,gautier4 ,he expired1 says ,wagniere1 on the #cjth of ,may1 #aghh1 at about a quarter past eleven at night1 with the most perfect tranquillity4 ,ten minutes before his last breath he took the hand of ,morand1 his valet-de-chambre1 who was watching by him1 pressed it and said3 ',adieu1 my dear ,morand4 ,i am gone6' ,these were his last words4 ,from this death1 so simple and serene1 so natural and peaceful--from these words so utterly destitute of cant or dramatic touch--all the frightful pictures1 all the despairing utterances have been drawn and made4 ,from these materials1 and from these alone1 have been constructed all the shameless calumnies about the death of this great and wonderful man4 ,voltaire was the intellectual autocrat of his time4 ,from his throne at the foot of the ,alps he pointed the finger of scorn at every hypocrite in ,europe4 ,he was the pioneer of his century4 ,he was the assassin of superstition4 ,through the shadows of faith and fable2 through the darkness of myth and miracle2 through the midnight of ,christianity2 through the blackness of bigotry2 past cathedral and dungeon2 past rack and stake2 past altar and throne1 he carried1 with chivalric hands1 the sacred torch of ,reason4 ,let me also tell you about the death of ,thomas ,paine4 ,after the publication of his ,rights of ,man and ,the ,age of ,reason1 every falsehood that malignity could coin and malice pass1 was given to the world4 ,on his return to ,america1 although ,thomas ,jefferson1 another infidel1 was ,president1 it was hardly safe for ,paine to appear in the public streets4 ,under the very flag he had helped to put in heaven1 his rights were not respected4 ,under the ,constitution that he had first suggested1 his life was insecure4 ,he had helped to give liberty to more than three millions of his fellow-citizens1 and they were willing to deny it unto him4 ,he was deserted1 ostracized1 shunned1 maligned and cursed4 ,but he maintained his integrity4 ,he stood by the convictions of his mind1 and never for one moment did he hesitate or waver4 ,he died almost alone4 ,the moment he died the pious commenced manufacturing horrors for his death-bed4 ,they had his chamber filled with devils rattling chains1 and these ancient falsehoods are certified to by the clergy even of the present day4 ,the truth is that ,thomas ,paine died as he had lived4 ,some ministers were impolite enough to visit him against his will4 ,several of them he ordered from his room4 ,a couple of ,catholic priests1 in all the meekness of arrogance1 called that they might enjoy the agonies of the dying friend of man4 ,thomas ,paine1 rising in his bed1 the few moments of expiring life fanned into flame by the breath of indignation1 had the goodness to curse them both4 ,his physician1 who seems to have been a meddling fool1 just as the cold hand of ,death was touching the patriot's heart1 whispered in the dulled ear of the dying man3 ,do you believe1 or do you wish to believe1 that ,jesus ,christ is the ,son of ,god8 ,and the reply was3 ,i have no wish to believe on that subject4 ,these were the last remembered words of ,thomas ,paine4 ,he died as serenely as ever mortal passed away4 ,he died in the full possession of his mind1 and on the brink and edge of death proclaimed the doctrines of his life4 ,every philanthropist1 every believer in human liberty1 every lover of the great ,republic1 should feel under obligation to ,thomas ,paine for the splendid services rendered by him in the darkest days of the ,american ,revolution4 ,in the midnight of ,valley ,forge1 ,the ,crisis was the first star that glittered in the wide horizon of despair4 ,we should remember that ,thomas ,paine was the first man to write these words3 ,the ,united ,states of ,america4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,hamilton seems to take a kind of joy in imagining what infidels will suffer when they come to die1 and he writes as though he would like to be present4 ,for my part ,i hope that all the sons and daughters of men will die in peace2 that they will pass away as easily as twilight fades to night4 ,of course when ,i said that ,christianity did not bring tidings of great joy1 but a message of eternal grief1 ,i meant orthodox ,christianity2 and when ,i said that ,christianity fills the future with fire and flame1 and made ,god the keeper of an eternal penitentiary1 in which most of the children of men were to be imprisoned forever1 ,i was giving what ,i understood to be the ,evangelical belief on that subject4 ,if the churches have given up the doctrine of eternal punishment1 then for one ,i am delighted1 and ,i shall feel that what little ,i have done toward that end has not been done in vain4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,hamilton1 enjoying my dying agony in imagination1 says3 ,let the world wait but for a few years at the most1 when ,death's icy fingers feel for the heartstrings of the boaster1 and1 as most of his like who have gone before him have done1 he will sing another strain4 ,how shall ,i characterize the spirit that could prompt the writing of such a sentence8 ,the reverend gentleman loves his enemies1 and yet he is filled with glee when he thinks of the agonies ,i shall endure when ,death's icy fingers feel for the strings of my heart6 ,yet ,i have done him no harm4 ,he then quotes1 as being applicable to me1 a passage from the prophet ,isaiah1 commencing3 ,the vile person will speak villainy4 ,is this passage applicable only to me8 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,holloway is not satisfied with the ,christmas ,sermon4 ,for his benefit ,i repeat1 in another form1 what the ,christmas ,sermon contains3 ,if orthodox ,christianity teaches that this life is a period of probation1 that we settle here our eternal destiny1 and that all who have heard the ,gospel and who have failed to believe it are to be eternally lost1 then ,i say that ,christianity did not bring tidings of great joy1 but a ,message of ,eternal ,grief4 ,and if the orthodox churches are still preaching the doctrine of ,endless ,pain1 then ,i say it would be far better if every church crumbled into dust than that such preaching and such teaching should be continued4 ,it would be far better yet1 however1 if the ministers could be converted and their congregations enlightened4 ,i admit that the orthodox churches preach some things beside hell2 but if they do not believe in the eternity of punishment they ought publicly to change their creeds4 ,i admit1 also1 that the average minister advises his congregation to be honest and to treat all with kindness1 and ,i admit that many of these ministers fail to follow their own advice when they make what they call replies to me4 ,of course there are many good things about the church4 ,to the extent that it is charitable1 or rather to the extent that it causes charity1 it is good4 ,to the extent that it causes men and women to lead moral lives it is good4 ,but to the extent that it fills the future with fear it is bad4 ,to the extent that it convinces any human being that there is any ,god who not only can1 but will1 inflict eternal torments on his own children1 it is bad4 ,and such teaching does tend to blight humanity4 ,such teaching does pollute the imagination of childhood4 ,such teaching does furrow the cheeks of the best and tenderest with tears44,such teaching does rob old age of all its joy1 and covers every cradle with a curse6 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,holloway seems to be extremely familiar with ,god4 ,he says3 ,god seems to have delayed his advent through all the ages to give unto the world the fullest opportunity to do all that the human mind could suggest for the weal of the race4 ,according to this gentleman1 ,god just delayed his advent for the purpose of seeing what the world would do1 knowing all the time exactly what would be done4 ,let us make a suggestion3 ,if the orthodox creed be true1 then all people became tainted or corrupted or depraved1 or in some way spoiled by what is known as ,original ,sin4 ,according to the ,old ,testament1 these people kept getting worse and worse4 ,it does not seem that ,jehovah made any effort to improve them1 but he patiently waited for about fifteen hundred years without having established any church1 without having given them a ,bible1 and then he drowned all but eight persons4 ,now1 those eight persons were also depraved4 ,the taint of ,original ,sin was also in their blood4 ,it seems to me that ,jehovah made a mistake4 ,he should also have killed the remaining eight1 and started new1 kept the serpent out of his garden1 and furnished the first pair with a ,bible and the ,presbyterian ,confession of ,faith4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,tyler takes it for granted that all charity and goodness are the children of ,christianity4 ,this is a mistake4 ,all the virtues were in the world long before ,christ came4 ,probably ,mr4 ,tyler will be convinced by the words of ,christ himself4 ,he will probably remember the story of the ,good ,samaritan1 and if he does he will see that it is exactly in point4 ,the ,good ,samaritan was not a ,hebrew4 ,he was not one of the chosen people4 ,he was a poor1 miserable heathen1 who knew nothing about the ,jehovah of the ,old ,testament1 and who had never heard of the scheme of salvation4 ,and yet1 according to ,christ1 he was far more charitable than the ,levites--the priests of ,jehovah1 the highest of the chosen people4 ,is it not perfectly plain from this story that charity was in the world before ,christianity was established8 ,a great deal has been said about asylums and hospitals1 as though the ,christians are entitled to great credit on that score4 ,if ,dr4 ,tyler will read what is said in the ,british ,encyclopaedia1 under the head of ,mental ,diseases1 he will find that the ,egyptians treated the insane with the utmost kindness1 and that they called reason back to its throne by the voice of music2 that the temples were resorted to by crowds of the insane2 and that whatever gifts of nature or productions of art were calculated to impress the imagination were there united4 ,games and recreations were instituted in the temples4 ,groves and gardens surrounded these holy retreats4 ,gayly decorated boats sometimes transported patients to breathe the pure breezes of the ,nile4 ,so in ancient ,greece it is said that from the hands of the priest the cure of the disordered mind first passed into the domain of medicine1 with the philosophers4 ,pythagoras is said to have employed music for the cure of mental diseases4 ,the order of the day for his disciples exhibits a profound knowledge of the relations of body and mind4 ,the early morning was divided between gentle exercise1 conversation and music4 ,then came conversation1 followed by gymnastic exercise and a temperate diet4 ,afterward1 a bath and supper with a sparing allowance of wine2 then reading1 music and conversation concluded the day4 ,so ,asclepiades was celebrated for his treatment of mental disorders4 ,he recommended that bodily restraint should be avoided as much as possible4 ,it is also stated that the philosophy and arts of ,greece spread to ,rome1 and the first special treatise on insanity is that of ,celsus1 which distinguishes varieties of insanity and their proper treatment4 ,over the arts and sciences of ,greece and ,rome the errors and ignorance of the ,middle ,ages gradually crept1 until they enveloped them in a cloud worse than ,egyptian darkness4 ,the insane were again consigned to the miracle-working-ordinances of o o priests or else totally neglected4 ,idiots and imbeciles were permitted to go clotheless and homeless4 ,the frantic and furious were chained in lonesome dungeons and exhibited for money1 like wild beasts4 ,the monomaniacs became1 according to circumstance1 the objects of superstitious horror or reverence4 ,they were regarded as possessed with demons and subjected either to priestly exorcism1 or cruelly destroyed as wizards and witches4 ,this cruel treatment of the insane continued with little or no alleviation down to the end of the last century in all the civilized countries of ,europe4 ,let me quote a description of these ,christian asylums4 ,public asylums indeed existed in most of the metropolitan cities of ,europe1 but the insane were more generally1 if at all troublesome1 confined in jails1 where they were chained in the lowest dungeons or made the butts and menials of the most debased criminals4 ,in public asylums the inmates were confined in cellars1 isolated in cages1 chained to floors or walls4 ,these poor victims were exhibited to the public like wild beasts4 ,they were often killed by the ignorance and brutality of their keepers4 ,i call particular attention to the following paragraph3 ,such was the state of the insane generally throughout ,europe at the commencement of this century4 ,such it continued to be in ,england so late as #ahae and in ,ireland as #ahag1 as revealed by the inquiries of parliamentary commissions in those years respectively4 ,dr4 ,tyler is entirely welcome to all the comfort these facts can give4 ,not only were the ,greeks and ,romans and ,egyptians far in advance of the ,christians in the treatment of the mentally diseased1 but even the ,mohammedans were in advance of the ,christians about #gjj years1 and in addition to this they treated their lunatics with great kindness4 ,the temple of ,diana of ,ephesus was a refuge for insolvent debtors1 and the ,thesium was a refuge for slaves4 ,again1 ,i say that hundreds of years before the establishment of ,christianity there were in ,india not only hospitals and asylums for people1 but even for animals4 ,the great mistake of the ,christian clergy is that they attribute all goodness to ,christianity4 ,they have always been engaged in maligning human nature--in attacking the human heart--in efforts to destroy all natural passions4 ,perfect maxims for the conduct of life were uttered and repeated in ,india and ,china hundreds and hundreds of years before the ,christian era4 ,every virtue was lauded and every vice denounced4 ,all the good that ,christianity has in it came from the human heart4 ,everything in that system of religion came from this world2 and in it you will find not only the goodness of man1 but the imperfections of man--not only the love of man1 but the malice of man4 ,let me tell you why the ,christians for so many centuries neglected or abused the insane4 ,they believed the ,new ,testament1 and honestly supposed that the insane were filled with devils4 ,in regard to the contest between ,dr4 ,buckley1 who1 as ,i understand it1 is a doctor of theology--and ,i should think such theology stood in need of a doctor--and the ,telegram1 ,i have nothing to say4 ,there is only one side to that contest2 and so far as the ,doctor heretofore criticised what is known as the ,christmas ,sermon1 ,i have answered him1 leaving but very little to which ,i care to reply in his last article4 ,dr4 ,buckley1 like many others1 brings forward names instead of reasons--instead of arguments4 ,milton1 ,pascal1 ,elizabeth ,fry1 ,john ,howard1 and ,michael ,faraday are not arguments4 ,they are only names2 and1 instead of giving the names1 ,dr4 ,buckley should give the reasons advanced by those whose names he pronounces4 ,jonathan ,edwards may have been a good man1 but certainly his theology was infamous4 ,so ,father ,mathew was a good man1 but it was impossible for him to be good enough to convince ,dr4 ,buckley of the doctrine of the ,real ,presence4 ,milton was a very good man1 and he described ,god as a kind of brigadier-general1 put the angels in uniform and had regular battles2 but ,milton's goodness can by no possibility establish the truth of his poetical and absurd vagaries4 ,all the self-denial and goodness in the world do not even tend to prove the existence of the supernatural or of the miraculous4 ,millions and millions of the most devoted men could not1 by their devotion1 substantiate the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,there are1 however1 some misstatements in ,dr4 ,buckley's article that ought not to be passed over in silence4 ,the first is to the effect that ,i was invited to write an article for the ,north ,american ,review1 ,judge ,jeremiah ,black to reply1 and that ,judge ,black was improperly treated4 ,now1 it is true that ,i was invited to write an article1 and did write one2 but ,i did not know at the time who was to reply4 ,it is also true that ,judge ,black did reply1 and that my article and his reply appeared in the same number of the ,review4 ,dr4 ,buckley alleges that the ,north ,american ,review gave me an opportunity to review the ,judge1 but denied to ,judge ,black an opportunity to respond4 ,this is without the slightest foundation in fact4 ,mr4 ,metcalf1 who at that time was manager of the ,review1 is still living and will tell the facts4 ,personally ,i had nothing to do with it1 one way or the other4 ,i did not regard ,judge ,black's reply as formidable1 and was not only willing that he should be heard again1 but anxious that he should4 ,so much for that4 ,as to the debate1 with ,dr4 ,field and ,mr4 ,gladstone1 ,i leave them to say whether they were or were not fairly treated4 ,dr4 ,field1 by his candor1 by his fairness1 and by the manly spirit he exhibited won my respect and love4 ,most ministers imagine that any man who differs from them is a blasphemer4 ,this word seems to leap unconsciously from their lips4 ,they cannot imagine that another man loves liberty as much and with as sincere devotion as they love ,god4 ,they cannot imagine that another prizes liberty above all gods1 even if gods exist4 ,they cannot imagine that any mind is so that it places ,justice above all persons1 a mind that cannot conceive even of a ,god who is not bound to do justice4 ,if ,god exists1 above him1 in eternal calm1 is the figure of ,justice4 ,neither can some ministers understand a man who regards ,jehovah and ,jupiter as substantially the same1 with this exception--that he thinks far more of ,jupiter1 because ,jupiter had at least some human feelings4 ,i do not understand that a man can be guilty of blasphemy who states his honest thoughts in proper language1 his object being1 not to torture the feelings of others1 but simply to give his thought--to find and establish the truth4 ,dr4 ,buckley makes a charge that he ought to have known to be without foundation4 ,speaking of myself1 he said3 ,in him the laws to prevent the circulation of obscene publications through the mails have found their most vigorous opponent4 ,it is hardly necessary for me to say that this is untrue4 ,the facts are that an effort was made to classify obscene literature with what the pious call blasphemous and immoral works4 ,a petition was forwarded to ,congress to amend the law so that the literature of ,freethought could not be thrown from the mails1 asking that1 if no separation could be made1 the law should be repealed4 ,it was said that ,i had signed this petition1 and ,i certainly should have done so had it been presented to me4 ,the petition was absolutely proper4 ,a few years ago ,i found the petition1 and discovered that while it bore my name it had never been signed by me4 ,but for the purposes of this answer ,i am perfectly willing that the signature should be regarded as genuine1 as there is nothing in the petition that should not have been granted4 ,the law as it stood was opposed by the ,liberal ,league--but not a member of that society was in favor of the circulation of obscene literature2 but they did think that the privacy of the mails had been violated1 and that it was of the utmost importance to maintain the inviolability of the postal service4 ,i disagreed with these people1 and favored the destruction of obscene literature not only1 but that it be made a criminal offence to send it through the mails4 ,as a matter of fact ,i drew up resolutions to that effect that were passed4 ,afterward they were changed1 or some others were passed1 and ,i resigned from the ,league on that account4 ,nothing can be more absurd than that ,i was1 directly or indirectly1 or could have been1 interested in the circulation of obscene publications through the mails2 and ,i will pay a premium of #a1jjj a word for each and every word ,i ever said or wrote in favor of sending obscene publications through the mails4 ,i might use much stronger language4 ,i might follow the example of ,dr4 ,buckley himself4 ,but ,i think ,i have said enough to satisfy all unprejudiced people that the charge is absurdly false4 ,now1 as to the eulogy of whiskey4 ,it gives me a certain pleasure to read that even now1 and ,i believe the readers of the ,telegram would like to read it once more2 so here it is3 ,i send you some of the most wonderful whiskey that ever drove the skeleton from a feast or painted landscapes in the brain of man4 ,it is the mingled souls of wheat and corn4 ,in it you will find the sunshine and the shadow that chased each other over the billowy fields2 the breath of ,june2 the carol of the lark2 the dews of night2 the wealth of summer and autumn's rich content1 all golden with imprisoned light4 ,drink it and you will hear the voices of men and maidens singing the ',harvest ,home1' mingled with the laughter of children4 ,drink it and you will feel within your blood the star-lit dawns1 the dreamy1 tawny dusks of many perfect days4 ,for forty years this liquid joy has been within the happy staves of oak1 longing to touch the lips of men4 ,i re-quote this for the reason that ,dr4 ,buckley1 who is not very accurate1 made some mistakes in his version4 ,now1 in order to show the depth of degradation to which ,i have sunk in this direction1 ,i will confess that ,i also wrote a eulogy of tobacco1 and here it is3 ,nearly four centuries ago ,columbus1 the adventurous1 in the blessed island of ,cuba1 saw happy people with rolled leaves between their lips4 ,above their heads were little clouds of smoke4 ,their faces were serene1 and in their eyes was the autumnal heaven of content4 ,these people were kind1 innocent1 gentle and loving4 ,the climate of ,cuba is the friendship of the earth and air1 and of this climate the sacred leaves were born--the leaves that breed in the mind of him who uses them the cloudless1 happy days in which they grew4 ,these leaves make friends1 and celebrate with gentle rites the vows of peace4 ,they have given consolation to the world4 ,they are the companions of the lonely--the friends of the imprisoned1 of the exile1 of workers in mines1 of fellers of forests1 of sailors on the desolate seas4 ,they are the givers of strength and calm to the vexed and wearied minds of those who build with thought and dream the temples of the soul4 ,they tell of hope and rest4 ,they smooth the wrinkled brows of pain--drive fears and strange misshapen dreads from out the mind and fill the heart with rest and peace4 ,within their magic warp and woof some potent gracious spell imprisoned lies1 that1 when released by fire1 doth softly steal within the fortress of the brain and bind in sleep the captured sentinels of care and grief4 ,these leaves are the friends of the fireside1 and their smoke1 like incense1 rises from myriads of happy homes4 ,cuba is the smile of the sea4 ,there are some people so constituted that there is no room in the heaven of their minds for the butterflies and moths of fancy to spread their wings4 ,everything is taken in solemn and stupid earnest4 ,such men would hold ,shakespeare responsible for what ,falstaff said about sack1 and for ,mrs4 ,quickly's notions of propriety4 ,there is an old ,greek saying which is applicable here3 ,in the presence of human stupidity1 even the gods stand helpless4 ,john ,wesley1 founder of the ,methodist ,church1 lacked all sense of humor4 ,he preached a sermon on ,the ,cause and ,cure of ,earthquakes4 ,he insisted that they were caused by the wickedness of man1 and that the only way to cure them was to believe on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ4 ,the man who does not carry the torch of ,humor is always in danger of falling into the pit of ,absurdity4 ,the ,rev4 ,charles ,deems1 pastor of the ,church of the ,strangers1 contributes his part to the discussion4 ,he took a text from ,john1 as follows3 ,he that committeth sin is of the devil1 for the devil sinneth from the beginning4 ,for this purpose the ,son of ,god was manifested1 that he might destroy the works of the devil4 ,according to the orthodox creed of the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,deems all have committed sin1 and consequently all are of the devil4 ,the ,doctor is not a metaphysician4 ,he does not care to play at sleight of hand with words4 ,he stands on bed-rock1 and he asserts that the devil is no ,persian myth1 but a personality1 who works unhindered by the limitations of a physical body1 and gets human personalities to aid him in his works4 ,according to the text1 it seems that the devil was a sinner from the beginning4 ,i suppose that must mean from his beginning1 or from the beginning of things4 ,according to ,dr4 ,deems' creed1 his ,god is the ,creator of all things1 and consequently must have been the ,creator of the devil4 ,according to the ,scriptures the devil is the father of lies1 and ,dr4 ,deems' ,god is the father of the devil--that is to say1 the grandfather of lies4 ,this strikes me as almost blasphemous4 ,the ,doctor also tells us that ,jesus believed as much in the personality of the devil as in that of ,herod or ,pilate or ,john or ,peter4 ,that ,i admit4 ,there is not the slightest doubt1 if the ,new ,testament be true1 that ,christ believed in a personal devil--a devil with whom he had conversations2 a devil who took him to the pinnacle of the ,temple and endeavored to induce him to leap to the earth below4 ,of course he believed in a personal devil4 ,not only so2 he believed in thousands of personal devils4 ,he cast seven devils out of ,mary ,magdalene4 ,he cast a legion of devils out of the man in the tombs1 or1 rather1 made a bargain with these last-mentioned devils that they might go into a drove or herd of swine1 if they would leave the man4 ,i not only admit that ,christ believed in devils1 but he believed that some devils were deaf and dumb1 and so declared4 ,dr4 ,deems is right1 and ,i hope he will defend against all comers the integrity of the ,new ,testament4 ,the ,doctor1 however1 not satisfied exactly with what he finds in the ,new ,testament1 draws a little on his own imagination4 ,he says3 ,the devil is an organizing1 imperial intellect1 vindictive1 sharp1 shrewd1 persevering1 the aim of whose works is to overthrow the authority of ,god's law4 ,how does the ,doctor know that the devil has an organizing1 imperial intellect8 ,how does he know that he is vindictive and sharp and shrewd and persevering8 ,if the devil has an imperial intellect1 why does he attempt the impossible8 ,robert ,burns shocked ,scotland by saying of the devil1 or1 rather1 to the devil1 that he was sorry for him1 and hoped he would take a thought and mend4 ,dr4 ,deems has gone far in advance of ,burns4 ,for a clergyman he seems to be exceedingly polite4 ,speaking of the ,arch ,enemy of ,god--of that organizing1 imperial intellect who is seeking to undermine the church--the ,doctor says3 ,the devil may be conceded to be sincere4 ,it has been said3 ,an honest ,god is the noblest work of man1 and it may now be added3 ,a sincere devil is the noblest work of ,dr4 ,deems4 ,but1 with all the devil's smartness1 sharpness1 and shrewdness1 the ,doctor says that he cannot write a book2 that he cannot deliver lectures 7like myself1 ,i suppose71 edit a newspaper 7like the editor of the ,telegram71 or make after-dinner speeches2 but he can get his servants to do these things for him4 ,there is one thing in the ,doctor's address that ,i feel like correcting 7,i quote from the ,telegram's report73 ,dr4 ,deems showed at length how the ,son of ,god1 the ,christ of the ,bible--not the ,christ of the lecture platform caricatures--is operating to overcome all these works4 ,i take it for granted that he refers to what he supposes ,i have said about ,christ1 and1 for fear that he may not have read it1 ,i give it here3 ,and let me say here1 once for all1 that for the man ,christ ,i have infinite respect4 ,let me say1 once for all1 that the place where man has died for man1 is holy ground4 ,and let me say1 once for all1 that to that great and serene man ,i gladly pay1 the tribute of my admiration and my tears4 ,he was a reformer in his day4 ,he was an infidel in his time4 ,he was regarded as a blasphemer1 and his life was destroyed by hypocrites1 who have1 in all ages1 done what they could to trample freedom and manhood out of the human mind4 ,had ,i lived at that time ,i would have been his friend1 and should he come again he will not find a better friend than ,i will be4 ,that is for the man4 ,for the theological creation ,i have a different feeling4 ,i have not answered each one who has attacked by name4 ,neither have ,i mentioned those who have agreed with me4 ,but ,i do take this occasion to thank all1 irrespective of their creeds1 who have manfully advocated the right of free speech1 and who have upheld the ,telegram in the course it has taken4 ,i thank all who have said a kind word for me1 and ,i also feel quite grateful to those who have failed to say unkind words4 ,epithets are not arguments4 ,to abuse is not to convince4 ,anger is stupid and malice illogical4 ,and1 after all that has appeared by way of reply1 ,i still insist that orthodox ,christianity did not come with tidings of great joy1 but with a message of eternal grief4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,new ,york1 ,february #e1 #ahib4 ,,suicide ,,of ,,judge ,,normile4 99,a reply to the ,western ,watchman1 published in the ,st4 ,louis ,globe ,democrat1 ,sept4 #a1 #ahib4 ,question4 ,have you read an article in the ,western ,watchman1 entitled ,suicide of ,judge ,normile8 ,if so1 what is your opinion of it8 ,answer4 ,i have read the article1 and ,i think the spirit in which it is written is in exact accord with the creed1 with the belief1 that prompted it4 ,in this article the writer speaks not only of ,judge ,normile1 but of ,henry ,d',arcy1 and begins by saying that a ,catholic community had been shocked1 but that as a matter of fact the ,catholics had no right to feel special concern in the life or death of either1 for the reason1 that both had ceased to be ,catholics1 and had lived as infidels and scoffers4 ,according to the ,catholic creed all infidels and scoffers are on the direct road to eternal pain2 and yet1 if the ,watchman is to be believed1 ,catholics have no right to have special concern for the fate of such people1 even after their death4 ,the church has always proclaimed that it was seeking the lost--that it was trying in every way to convert the infidels and save the scoffers--that it cared less for the ninety-nine sheep safe in the fold than for the one that had strayed4 ,we have been told that ,god so loved infidels and scoffers1 that he came to this poor world and gave his life that they might be saved4 ,but now we are told by the ,western ,watchman that the church1 said to have been founded by ,christ1 has no right to feel any special concern about the fate of infidels and scoffers4 ,possibly the ,watchman only refers to the infidels and scoffers who were once ,catholics4 ,if the ,new ,testament is true1 ,st4 ,peter was at one time a ,christian2 that is to say1 a good ,catholic1 and yet he fell from grace and not only denied his ,master1 but went to the extent of swearing that he did not know him2 that he never had made his acquaintance4 ,and yet1 this same ,peter was taken back and became the rock on which the ,catholic ,church is supposed to rest4 ,are the ,catholics of ,st4 ,louis following the example of ,christ1 when they publicly declare that they care nothing for the fate of one who left the church and who died in his sins8 ,the ,watchman1 in order to show that it was simply doing its duty1 and was not actuated by hatred or malice1 assures us as follows3 ,a warm personal friendship existed between ,d',arcy and ,normile and the managers of this paper4 ,what would the ,watchman have said if these men had been the personal enemies of the managers of that paper8 ,two warm personal friends1 once ,catholics1 had gone to hell2 but the managers of the ,watchman1 warm personal friends of the dead1 had no right to feel any special concern about these friends in the flames of perdition4 ,one would think that pity had changed to piety4 ,another wonderful statement is that both of these men determined to go to hell1 if there was a hell1 and to forego the joys of heaven1 if there was a heaven4 ,admitting that heaven and hell exist1 that heaven is a good place1 and that hell1 to say the least1 is1 and eternally will be1 unpleasant1 why should any sane man unalterably determine to go to hell8 ,it is hard to think of any reason1 unless he was afraid of meeting those ,catholics in heaven who had been his warm personal friends in this world4 ,the truth is that no one wishes to be unhappy in this or any other country4 ,the truth is that ,henry ,d',arcy and ,judge ,normile both became convinced that the ,catholic ,church is of human origin1 that its creed is not true1 that it is the enemy of progress1 and the foe of freedom4 ,it may be that they were in part led to these conclusions by the conduct of their warm personal friends4 ,it is claimed that these men1 ,henry ,d',arcy and ,judge ,normile studied to convince themselves that there was no ,god1 that they went back to ,paganism and lived among the ancients1 and that they soon revelled in the grossness of ,paganism4 ,if they went back to ,paganism1 they certainly found plenty of gods4 ,the ,pagans filled heaven and earth with deities4 ,the ,catholics have only three1 while the ,pagans had hundreds4 ,and yet there were some very good ,pagans4 ,by associating with ,socrates and ,plato one would not necessarily become a groveling wretch4 ,zeno was not altogether abominable4 ,he would compare favorably1 at least1 with the average pope4 ,aristotle was not entirely despicable1 although wrong1 it may be1 in many things4 ,epicurus was temperate1 frugal and serene4 ,he perceived the beauty of use1 and celebrated the marriage of virtue and joy4 ,he did not teach his disciples to revel in grossness1 although his maligners have made this charge4 ,cicero was a ,pagan1 and yet he uttered some very sublime and generous sentiments4 ,among other things1 he said this3 ,when we say that we should love ,romans1 but not foreigners1 we destroy the bond of universal brotherhood and drive from our hearts charity and justice4 ,suppose a ,pagan had written about two warm personal friends of his1 who had joined the ,catholic ,church1 and suppose he had said this3 ,although our two warm personal friends have both died by their own hands1 and although both have gone to the lowest hell1 and are now suffering inconceivable agonies1 we have no right to feel any special concern about them or about their sufferings2 and1 to speak frankly1 we care nothing for their agonies1 nothing for their tears1 and we mention them only to keep other ,pagans from joining that blasphemous and ignorant church4 ,both of our friends were raised as ,pagans1 both were educated in our holy religion1 and both had read the works of our greatest and wisest authors1 and yet they fell into apostasy1 and studied day and night1 in season and out of season1 to convince themselves that a young carpenter of ,palestine was in fact1 ,jupiter1 whom we call ,stator1 the creator1 the sustainer and governor of all4 ,it is probable that the editor of the ,watchman was perfectly conscientious in his attack on the dead4 ,nothing but a sense of religious duty could induce any man to attack the character of a warm personal friend1 and to say that although the friend was in hell1 he felt no special concern as to his fate4 ,the ,watchman seems to think that it is hardly probable or possible that a sane ,catholic should become an infidel4 ,people of every religion feel substantially in this way4 ,it is probable that the ,mohammedan is of the opinion that no sane believer in the religion of ,islam could possibly become a ,catholic4 ,probably there are no sane ,mohammedans4 ,i do not know4 ,now1 it seems to me1 that when a sane ,catholic reads the history of his church1 of the ,inquisition1 of centuries of flame and sword1 of philosophers and thinkers tortured1 flayed and burned by the ,bride of ,god1 and of all the cruelties of ,christian years1 he may reasonably come to the conclusion that the ,church of ,rome is not the best possible church in this1 the best possible of all worlds4 ,it would hardly impeach his sanity if1 after reading the history of superstition1 he should denounce the ,hierarchy1 from priest to pope4 ,the truth is1 the real opinions of all men are perfectly honest no matter whether they are for or against the ,catholic creed4 ,all intelligent people are intellectually hospitable4 ,every man who knows something of the operations of his own mind is absolutely certain that his wish has not1 to his knowledge1 influenced his judgment4 ,he may admit that his wish has influenced his speech1 but he must certainly know that it has not affected his judgment4 ,in other words1 a man cannot cheat himself in a game of solitaire and really believe that he has won the game4 ,no matter what the appearance of the cards may be1 he knows whether the game was lost or won4 ,so1 men may say that their judgment is a certain way1 and they may so affirm in accordance with their wish1 but neither the wish1 nor the declaration can affect the real judgment4 ,so1 a man must know whether he believes a certain creed or not1 or1 at least1 what the real state of his mind is4 ,when a man tells me that he believes in the supernatural1 in the miraculous1 and in the inspiration of the ,scriptures1 ,i take it for granted that he is telling the truth1 although it seems impossible to me that the man could reach that conclusion4 ,when another tells me that he does not know whether there is a ,supreme ,being or not1 but that he does not believe in the supernatural1 and is perfectly satisfied that the ,scriptures are for the most part false and barbarous1 ,i implicitly believe every word he says4 ,i admit cheerfully that there are many millions of men and women who believe what to me seems impossible and infinitely absurd2 and1 undoubtedly1 what ,i believe seems to them equally impossible4 ,let us give to others the liberty which we claim for ourselves4 ,the ,watchman seems to think that unbelief1 especially when coupled with what they call the sins of the flesh1 is the lowest possible depth1 and tells us that robbers may be devout1 murderers penitent1 and drunkards reverential4 ,in some of these statements the ,watchman is probably correct4 ,there have been devout robbers4 ,there have been gentlemen of the highway1 agents of the road1 who carried sacred images1 who bowed1 at holy shrines for the purpose of securing success4 ,for many centuries the devout ,catholics robbed the ,jews4 ,the devout ,ferdinand and ,isabella were great robbers4 ,a great many popes have indulged in this theological pastime1 not to speak of the rank and file4 ,yes1 the ,watchman is right4 ,there is nothing in robbery that necessarily interferes with devotion4 ,there have been penitent murderers1 and most murderers1 unless impelled by a religious sense of duty to ,god1 have been penitent4 ,david1 with dying breath1 advised his son to murder the old friends of his father4 ,he certainly was not penitent4 ,undoubtedly ,torquemada murdered without remorse1 and ,calvin burned his warm personal friend to gain the applause of ,god4 ,philip the ,second was a murderer1 not penitent1 because he deemed it his duty4 ,the same may be said of the ,duke of ,alva1 and of thousands of others4 ,robert ,burns was not1 according to his own account1 strictly virtuous1 and yet ,i like him better than ,i do those who planned and carried into bloody execution the massacre of ,st4 ,bartholomew4 ,undoubtedly murderers have been penitent4 ,a man in ,california cut the throat of a woman1 although she begged for mercy1 saying at the same time that she was not prepared to die4 ,he cared nothing for her prayers4 ,he was tried1 convicted and sentenced to death4 ,he made a motion for a new trial4 ,this was denied4 ,he appealed to the governor1 but the executive refused to interfere4 ,then he became penitent and experienced religion4 ,on the scaffold he remarked that he was going to heaven2 that his only regret was that he would not meet the woman he had murdered1 as she was not a ,christian when she died4 ,undoubtedly murderers can be penitent4 ,an old ,spaniard was dying4 ,he sent for a priest to administer the last sacraments of the church4 ,the priest told him that he must forgive all his enemies4 ,i have no enemies1 said the dying man1 ,i killed the last one three weeks ago4 ,undoubtedly murderers can be penitent4 ,so1 ,i admit that drunkards have been pious and reverential1 and ,i might add1 honest and generous4 ,some good ,catholics and some good ,protestants have enjoyed a hospitable glass1 and there have been priests who used the blood of the grape for other than a sacramental purpose4 ,even ,luther1 a good ,catholic in his day1 a reformer1 a ,doctor of ,divinity1 gave to the world this couplet3 ,who loves not woman1 wine and song1 ,will live a fool his whole life long4 ,the ,watchman1 in effect1 says that a devout robber is better than an infidel2 that a penitent murderer is superior to a freethinker1 in the sight of ,god4 ,another curious thing in this article is that after sending both men to hell1 the ,watchman says3 ,as to their moral habits we know nothing4 ,it may then be taken for granted1 if these warm personal friends knew nothing against the dead1 that their lives were1 at least1 what the church calls moral4 ,we know1 if we know anything1 that there is no necessary connection between what is called religion and morality4 ,certainly there were millions of moral people1 those who loved mercy and dealt honestly1 before the ,catholic ,church existed4 ,the virtues were well known1 and practiced1 before a triple crown surrounded the cunning brain of an ,italian ,vicar of ,god1 and before the flames of the ,auto da fe delighted the hearts of a ,christian mob4 ,thousands of people died for the right1 before the wrong organized the infallible church4 ,but why should any man deem it his duty or feel it a pleasure to say harsh and cruel things of the dead8 ,why pierce the brow of death with the thorns of hatred8 ,suppose the editor of the ,watchman had died1 and ,judge ,normile had been the survivor1 would the infidel and scoffer have attacked the unreplying dead8 ,henry ,d',arcy ,i did not know2 but ,judge ,normile was my friend and ,i was his4 ,although we met but a few times1 he excited my admiration and respect4 ,he impressed me as being an exceedingly intelligent man1 well informed on many subjects1 of varied reading1 possessed of a clear and logical mind1 a poetic temperament1 enjoying the beautiful things in literature and art1 and the noble things in life4 ,he gave his opinions freely1 but without the least arrogance1 and seemed perfectly willing that others should enjoy the privilege of differing with him4 ,he was1 so far as ,i could perceive1 a gentleman1 tender of the feelings of others1 free and manly in his bearing1 of most excellent fancy1 and a most charming and agreeable companion4 ,according1 however1 to the ,watchman1 such a man is far below a devout robber or a penitent murderer4 ,is it possible that an assassin like ,ravillac is far better than a philosopher like ,voltaire2 and that all the ,catholic robbers and murderers who retain their faith1 give greater delight to ,god than the ,humboldts1 ,haeckels and ,darwins who have filled the world with intellectual light8 ,possibly the ,catholic ,church is mistaken4 ,possibly the ,watchman is in error1 and possibly there may be for the erring1 even in another world1 some asylum besides hell4 ,judge ,normile died by his own hand4 ,certainly he was not afraid of the future4 ,he was not appalled by death4 ,he died by his own hand4 ,can anything be more pitiful--more terrible8 ,how can a man in the flowing tide and noon of life destroy himself8 ,what storms there must have been within the brain2 what tempests must have raved and wrecked2 what lightnings blinded and revealed2 what hurrying clouds obscured and hid the stars2 what monstrous shapes emerged from gloom2 what darkness fell upon the day2 what visions filled the night2 how the light failed2 how paths were lost2 how highways disappeared2 how chasms yawned2 until one thought--the thought of death--swift1 compassionate and endless--became the insane monarch of the mind4 ,standing by the prostrate form of one who thus found death1 it is far better to pity than to revile--to kiss the clay than curse the man4 ,the editor of the ,watchman has done himself injustice4 ,he has not injured the dead1 but the living4 ,i am an infidel--an unbeliever--and yet ,i hope that all the children of men may find peace and joy4 ,no matter how they leave this world1 from altar or from scaffold1 crowned with virtue or stained with crime1 ,i hope that good may come to all4 ,r4 ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,,is ,,suicide ,a ,,sin8 99 ,these letters were published in the ,new ,york ,world1 #ahid4 ,col4 ,ingersoll's ,first ,letter4 ,i ,,do not know whether self-killing is on the increase or not4 ,if it is1 then there must be1 on the average1 more trouble1 more sorrow1 more failure1 and1 consequently1 more people are driven to despair4 ,in civilized life there is a great struggle1 great competition1 and many fail4 ,to fail in a great city is like being wrecked at sea4 ,in the country a man has friends2 he can get a little credit1 a little help1 but in the city it is different4 ,the man is lost in the multitude4 ,in the roar of the streets1 his cry is not heard4 ,death becomes his only friend4 ,death promises release from want1 from hunger and pain1 and so the poor wretch lays down his burden1 dashes it from his shoulders and falls asleep4 ,to me all this seems very natural4 ,the wonder is that so many endure and suffer to the natural end1 that so many nurse the spark of life in huts and prisons1 keep it and guard it through years of misery and want2 support it by beggary1 by eating the crust found in the gutter1 and to whom it only gives days of weariness and nights of fear and dread4 ,why should the man1 sitting amid the wreck of all he had1 the loved ones dead1 friends lost1 seek to lengthen1 to preserve his life8 ,what can the future have for him8 ,under many circumstances a man has the right to kill himself4 ,when life is of no value to him1 when he can be of no real assistance to others1 why should a man continue8 ,when he is of no benefit1 when he is a burden to those he loves1 why should he remain8 ,the old idea was that ,god made us and placed us here for a purpose and that it was our duty to remain until he called us4 ,the world is outgrowing this absurdity4 ,what pleasure can it give ,god to see a man devoured by a cancer2 to see the quivering flesh slowly eaten2 to see the nerves throbbing with pain8 ,is this a festival for ,god8 ,why should the poor wretch stay and suffer8 ,a little morphine would give him sleep--the agony would be forgotten and he would pass unconsciously from happy dreams to painless death4 ,if ,god determines all births and deaths1 of what use is medicine and why should doctors defy with pills and powders1 the decrees of ,god8 ,no one1 except a few insane1 act now according to this childish superstition4 ,why should a man1 surrounded by flames1 in the midst of a burning building1 from which there is no escape1 hesitate to put a bullet through his brain or a dagger in his heart8 ,would it give ,god pleasure to see him burn8 ,when did the man lose the right of self-defence8 ,so1 when a man has committed some awful crime1 why should he stay and ruin his family and friends8 ,why should he add to the injury8 ,why should he live1 filling his days and nights1 and the days and nights of others1 with grief and pain1 with agony and tears8 ,why should a man sentenced to imprisonment for life hesitate to still his heart8 ,the grave is better than the cell4 ,sleep is sweeter than the ache of toil4 ,the dead have no masters4 ,so the poor girl1 betrayed and deserted1 the door of home closed against her1 the faces of friends averted1 no hand that will help1 no eye that will soften with pity1 the future an abyss filled with monstrous shapes of dread and fear1 her mind racked by fragments of thoughts like clouds broken by storm1 pursued1 surrounded by the serpents of remorse1 flying from horrors too great to bear1 rushes with joy through the welcome door of death4 ,undoubtedly there are many cases of perfectly justifiable suicide--cases in which not to end life would be a mistake1 sometimes almost a crime4 ,as to the necessity of death1 each must decide for himself4 ,and if a man honestly decides that death is best--best for him and others--and acts upon the decision1 why should he be blamed8 ,certainly the man who kills himself is not a physical coward4 ,he may have lacked moral courage1 but not physical4 ,it may be said that some men fight duels because they are afraid to decline4 ,they are between two fires--the chance of death and the certainty of dishonor1 and they take the chance of death4 ,so the ,christian martyrs were1 according to their belief1 between two fires--the flames of the fagot that could burn but for a few moments1 and the fires of ,god1 that were eternal4 ,and they chose the flames of the fagot4 ,men who fear death to that degree that they will bear all the pains and pangs that nerves can feel1 rather than die1 cannot afford to call the suicide a coward4 ,it does not seem to me that ,brutus was a coward or that ,seneca was4 ,surely ,antony had nothing left to live for4 ,cato was not a craven4 ,he acted on his judgment4 ,so with hundreds of others who felt that they had reached the end---that the journey was done1 the voyage was over1 and1 so feeling1 stopped4 ,it seems certain that the man who commits suicide1 who does the thing that ends all other deeds1 that shackles accident and bolts up change is not lacking in physical courage4 ,if men had the courage1 they would not linger in prisons1 in almshouses1 in hospitals2 they would not bear the pangs of incurable disease1 the stains of dishonor2 they would not live in filth and want1 in poverty and hunger1 neither would they wear the chain of slavery4 ,all this can be accounted for only by the fear of death or of something after4 ,seneca1 knowing that ,nero intended to take his life1 had no fear4 ,he knew that he could defeat the ,emperor4 ,he knew that at the bottom of every river1 in the coil of every rope1 on the point of every dagger1 ,liberty sat and smiled4 ,he knew that it was his own fault if he allowed himself to be tortured to death by his enemy4 ,he said3 ,there is this blessing1 that while life has but one entrance1 it has exits innumerable1 and as ,i choose the house in which ,i live1 the ship in which ,i will sail1 so will ,i choose the time and manner of my death4 ,to me this is not cowardly1 but manly and noble4 ,under the ,roman law persons found guilty of certain offences were not only destroyed1 but their blood was polluted and their children became outcasts4 ,if1 however1 they died before conviction their children were saved4 ,many committed suicide to save their babes4 ,certainly they were not cowards4 ,although guilty of great crimes they had enough of honor1 of manhood1 left to save their innocent children4 ,this was not cowardice4 ,without doubt many suicides are caused by insanity4 ,men lose their property4 ,the fear of the future overpowers them4 ,things lose proportion1 they lose poise and balance1 and in a flash1 a gleam of frenzy1 kill themselves4 ,the disappointed in love1 broken in heart--the light fading from their lives--seek the refuge of death4 ,those who take their lives in painful1 barbarous ways--who mangle their throats with broken glass1 dash themselves from towers and roofs1 take poisons that torture like the rack--such persons must be insane4 ,but those who take the facts into account1 who weigh the arguments for and against1 and who decide that death is best--the only good--and then resort to reasonable means1 may be1 so far as ,i can see1 in full possession of their minds4 ,life is not the same to all--to some a blessing1 to some a curse1 to some not much in any way4 ,some leave it with unspeakable regret1 some with the keenest joy and some with indifference4 ,religion1 or the decadence of religion1 has a bearing upon the number of suicides4 ,the fear of ,god1 of judgment1 of eternal pain will stay the hand1 and people so believing will suffer here until relieved by natural death4 ,a belief in eternal agony beyond the grave will cause such believers to suffer the pangs of this life4 ,when there is no fear of the future1 when death is believed to be a dreamless sleep1 men have less hesitation about ending their lives4 ,on the other hand1 orthodox religion has driven millions to insanity4 ,it has caused parents to murder their children and many thousands to destroy themselves and others4 ,it seems probable that all real1 genuine orthodox believers who kill themselves must be insane1 and to such a degree that their belief is forgotten4 ,god and hell are out of their minds4 ,i am satisfied that many who commit suicide are insane1 many are in the twilight or dusk of insanity1 and many are perfectly sane4 ,the law we have in this ,state making it a crime to attempt suicide is cruel and absurd and calculated to increase the number of successful suicides4 ,when a man has suffered so much1 when he has been so persecuted and pursued by disaster that he seeks the rest and sleep of death1 why should the ,state add to the sufferings of that man8 ,a man seeking death1 knowing that he will be punished if he fails1 will take extra pains and precautions to make death certain4 ,this law was born of superstition1 passed by thoughtlessness and enforced by ignorance and cruelty4 ,when the house of life becomes a prison1 when the horizon has shrunk and narrowed to a cell1 and when the convict longs for the liberty of death1 why should the effort to escape be regarded as a crime8 ,of course1 ,i regard life from a natural point of view4 ,i do not take gods1 heavens or hells into account4 ,my horizon is the known1 and my estimate of life is based upon what ,i know of life here in this world4 ,people should not suffer for the sake of supernatural beings or for other worlds or the hopes and fears of some future state4 ,our joys1 our sufferings and our duties are here4 ,the law of ,new ,york about the attempt to commit suicide and the law as to divorce are about equal4 ,both are idiotic4 ,law cannot prevent suicide4 ,those who have lost all fear of death1 care nothing for law and its penalties4 ,death is liberty1 absolute and eternal4 ,we should remember that nothing happens but the natural4 ,back of every suicide and every attempt to commit suicide is the natural and efficient cause4 ,nothing happens by chance4 ,in this world the facts touch each other4 ,there is no space between--no room for chance4 ,given a certain heart and brain1 certain conditions1 and suicide is the necessary result4 ,if we wish to prevent suicide we must change conditions4 ,we must by education1 by invention1 by art1 by civilization1 add to the value of the average life4 ,we must cultivate the brain and heart--do away with false pride and false modesty4 ,we must become generous enough to help our fellows without degrading them4 ,we must make industry--useful work of all kinds--honorable4 ,we must mingle a little affection with our charity--a little fellowship4 ,we should allow those who have sinned to really reform4 ,we should not think only of what the wicked have done1 but we should think of what we have wanted to do4 ,people do not hate the sick4 ,why should they despise the mentally weak--the diseased in brain8 ,our actions are the fruit1 the result1 of circumstances--of conditions--and we do as we must4 ,this great truth should fill the heart with pity for the failures of our race4 ,sometimes ,i have wondered that ,christians denounced the suicide2 that in olden times they buried him where the roads crossed1 drove a stake through his body1 and then took his property from his children and gave it to the ,state4 ,if ,christians would only think1 they would see that orthodox religion rests upon suicide--that man was redeemed by suicide1 and that without suicide the whole world would have been lost4 ,if ,christ were ,god1 then he had the power to protect himself from the ,jews without hurting them4 ,but instead of using his power he allowed them to take his life4 ,if a strong man should allow a few little children to hack him to death with knives when he could easily have brushed them aside1 would we not say that he committed suicide8 ,there is no escape4 ,if ,christ were1 in fact1 ,god1 and allowed the ,jews to kill him1 then he consented to his own death--refused1 though perfectly able1 to defend and protect himself1 and was1 in fact1 a suicide4 ,we cannot reform the world by law or by superstition4 ,as long as there shall be pain and failure1 want and sorrow1 agony and crime1 men and women will untie life's knot and seek the peace of death4 ,to the hopelessly imprisoned--to the dishonored and despised--to those who have failed1 who have no future1 no hope--to the abandoned1 the brokenhearted1 to those who are only remnants and fragments of men and women--how consoling1 how enchanting is the thought of death6 ,and even to the most fortunate1 death at last is a welcome deliverer4 ,death is as natural and as merciful as life4 ,when we have journeyed long--when we are weary--when we wish for the twilight1 for the dusk1 for the cool kisses of the night--when the senses are dull--when the pulse is faint and low--when the mists gather on the mirror of memory--when the past is almost forgotten1 the present hardly perceived--when the future has but empty hands--death is as welcome as a strain of music4 ,after all1 death is not so terrible as joyless life4 ,next to eternal happiness is to sleep in the soft clasp of the cool earth1 disturbed by no dream1 by no thought1 by no pain1 by no fear1 unconscious of all and forever4 ,the wonder is that so many live1 that in spite of rags and want1 in spite of tenement and gutter1 of filth and pain1 they1 limp and stagger and crawl beneath their burdens to the natural end4 ,the wonder is that so few of the miserable are brave enough to die--that so many are terrified by the something after death--by the spectres and phantoms of superstition4 ,most people are in love with life4 ,how they cling to it in the arctic snows--how they struggle in the waves and currents of the sea--how they linger in famine--how they fight disaster and despair6 ,on the crumbling edge of death they keep the flag flying and go down at last full of hope and courage4 ,but many have not such natures4 ,they cannot bear defeat4 ,they are disheartened by disaster4 ,they lie down on the field of conflict and give the earth their blood4 ,they are our unfortunate brothers and sisters4 ,we should not curse or blame--we should pity4 ,on their pallid faces our tears should fall4 ,one of the best men ,i ever knew1 with an affectionate wife1 a charming and loving daughter1 committed suicide4 ,he was a man of generous impulses4 ,his heart was loving and tender4 ,he was conscientious1 and so sensitive that he blamed himself for having done what at the time he thought was wise and best4 ,he was the victim of his virtues4 ,let us be merciful in our judgments4 ,all we can say is that the good and the bad1 the loving and the malignant1 the conscientious and the vicious1 the educated and the ignorant1 actuated by many motives1 urged and pushed by circumstances and conditions--sometimes in the calm of judgment1 sometimes in passion's storm and stress1 sometimes in whirl and tempest of insanity--raise their hands against themselves and desperately put out the light of life4 ,those who attempt suicide should not be punished4 ,if they are insane they should if possible be restored to reason2 if sane1 they should be reasoned with1 calmed and assisted4 ,r4 ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,,col4 ,,ingersoll',s ,,reply ,,to ,,his ,,critics4 ,,in the article written by me about suicide the ground was taken that under many circumstances a man has the right to kill himself4 ,this has been attacked with great fury by clergymen1 editors and the writers of letters4 ,these people contend that the right of self-destruction does not and cannot exist4 ,they insist that life is the gift of ,god1 and that he only has the right to end the days of men2 that it is our duty to bear the sorrows that he sends with grateful patience4 ,some have denounced suicide as the worst of crimes--worse than the murder of another4 ,the first question1 then1 is3 ,has a man under any circumstances the right to kill himself8 ,a man is being slowly devoured by a cancer--his agony is intense--his suffering all that nerves can feel4 ,his life is slowly being taken4 ,is this the work of the good ,god8 ,did the compassionate ,god create the cancer so that it might feed on the quiverering flesh of this victim8 ,this man1 suffering agonies beyond the imagination to conceive1 is of no use to himself4 ,his life is but a succession of pangs4 ,he is of no use to his wife1 his children1 his friends or society4 ,day after day he is rendered unconscious by drugs that numb the nerves and put the brain to sleep4 ,has he the right to render himself unconscious8 ,is it proper for him to take refuge in sleep8 ,if there be a good ,god ,i cannot believe that he takes pleasure in the sufferings of men--that he gloats over the agonies of his children4 ,if there be a good ,god1 he will1 to the extent of his power1 lessen the evils of life4 ,so ,i insist that the man being eaten by the cancer--a burden to himself and others1 useless in every way--has the right to end his pain and pass through happy sleep to dreamless rest4 ,but those who have answered me would say to this man3 ,it is your duty to be devoured4 ,the good ,god wishes you to suffer4 ,your life is the gift of ,god4 ,you hold it in trust and you have no right to end it4 ,the cancer is the creation of ,god and it is your duty to furnish it with food4 ,take another case3 ,a man is on a burning ship1 the crew and the rest of the passengers have escaped--gone in the lifeboats--and he is left alone4 ,in the wide horizon there is no sail1 no sign of help4 ,he cannot swim4 ,if he leaps into the sea he drowns1 if he remains on the ship he burns4 ,in any event he can live but a few moments4 ,those who have answered me1 those who insist that under no circumstances a man has the right to take his life1 would say to this man on the deck1 ,remain where you are4 ,it is the desire of your loving1 heavenly ,father that you be clothed in flame--that you slowly roast--that your eyes be scorched to blindness and that you die insane with pain4 ,your life is not your own1 only the agony is yours4 ,i would say to this man3 ,do as you wish4 ,if you prefer drowning to burning1 leap into the sea4 ,between inevitable evils you have the right of choice4 ,you can help no one1 not even ,god1 by allowing yourself to be burned1 and you can injure no one1 not even ,god1 by choosing the easier death4 ,let us suppose another case3 ,a man has been captured by savages in ,central ,africa4 ,he is about to be tortured to death4 ,his captors are going to thrust splinters of pine into his flesh and then set them on fire4 ,he watches them as they make the preparations4 ,he knows what they are about to do and what he is about to suffer4 ,there is no hope of rescue1 of help4 ,he has a vial of poison4 ,he knows that he can take it and in one moment pass beyond their power1 leaving to them only the dead body4 ,is this man under obligation to keep his life because ,god gave it1 until the savages by torture take it8 ,are the savages the agents of the good ,god8 ,are they the servants of the ,infinite8 ,is it the duty of this man to allow them to wrap his body in a garment of flame8 ,has he no right to defend himself8 ,is it the will of ,god that he die by torture8 ,what would any man of ordinary intelligence do in a case like this8 ,is there room for discussion8 ,if the man took the poison1 shortened his life a few moments1 escaped the tortures of the savages1 is it possible that he would in another world be tortured forever by an infinite savage8 ,suppose another case3 ,in the good old days1 when the ,inquisition flourished1 when men loved their enemies and murdered their friends1 many frightful and ingenious ways were devised to touch the nerves of pain4 ,those who loved ,god1 who had been born twice1 would take a fellow-man who had been convicted of heresy1 lay him upon the floor of a dungeon1 secure his arms and legs with chains1 fasten him to the earth so that he could not move1 put an iron vessel1 the opening downward1 on his stomach1 place in the vessel several rats1 then tie it securely to his body4 ,then these worshipers of ,god would wait until the rats1 seeking food and liberty1 would gnaw through the body of the victim4 ,now1 if a man about to be subjected to this torture1 had within his hand a dagger1 would it excite the wrath of the good ,god1 if with one quick stroke he found the protection of death8 ,to this question there can be but one answer4 ,in the cases ,i have supposed it seems to me that each person would have the right to destroy himself4 ,it does not seem possible that the man was under obligation to be devoured by a cancer2 to remain upon the ship and perish in flame2 to throw away the poison and be tortured to death by savages2 to drop the dagger and endure the mercies of the church4 ,if1 in the cases ,i have supposed1 men would have the right to take their lives1 then ,i was right when ,i said that under many circumstances a man has a right to kill himself4 ,second4--,i denied that persons who killed themselves were physical cowards4 ,they may lack moral courage2 they may exaggerate their misfortunes1 lose the sense of proportion1 but the man who plunges the dagger in his heart1 who sends the bullet through his brain1 who leaps from some roof and dashes himself against the stones beneath1 is not and cannot be a physical coward4 ,the basis of cowardice is the fear of injury or the fear of death1 and when that fear is not only gone1 but in its place is the desire to die1 no matter by what means1 it is impossible that cowardice should exist4 ,the suicide wants the very thing that a coward fears4 ,he seeks the very thing that cowardice endeavors to escape4 ,so1 the man1 forced to a choice of evils1 choosing the less is not a coward1 but a reasonable man4 ,it must be admitted that the suicide is honest with himself4 ,he is to bear the injury2 if it be one4 ,certainly there is no hypocrisy1 and just as certainly there is no physical cowardice4 ,is the man who takes morphine rather than be eaten to death by a cancer a coward8 ,is the man who leaps into the sea rather than be burned a coward8 ,is the man that takes poison rather than be tortured to death by savages or ,christians a coward8 ,third4--,i also took the position that some suicides were sane2 that they acted on their best judgment1 and that they were in full possession of their minds4 ,now1 if under some circumstances1 a man has the right to take his life1 and1 if1 under such circumstances1 he does take his life1 then it cannot be said that he was insane4 ,most of the persons who have tried to answer me have taken the ground that suicide is not only a crime1 but some of them have said that it is the greatest of crimes4 ,now1 if it be a crime1 then the suicide must have been sane4 ,so all persons who denounce the suicide as a criminal admit that he was sane4 ,under the law1 an insane person is incapable of committing a crime4 ,all the clergymen who have answered me1 and who have passionately asserted that suicide is a crime1 have by that assertion admitted that those who killed themselves were sane4 ,they agree with me1 and not only admit1 but assert that some who have committed suicide were sane and in the full possession of their minds4 ,it seems to me that these three propositions have been demonstrated to be true3 ,first1 that under some circumstances a man has the right to take his life2 second1 that the man who commits suicide is not a physical coward1 and1 third1 that some who have committed suicide were at the time sane and in full possession of their minds4 ,fourth4--,i insisted1 and still insist1 that suicide was and is the foundation of the ,christian religion4 ,i still insist that if ,christ were ,god he had the power to protect himself without injuring his assailants--that having that power it was his duty to use it1 and that failing to use it he consented to his own death and was guilty of suicide4 ,to this the clergy answer that it was self-sacrifice for the redemption of man1 that he made an atonement for the sins of believers4 ,these ideas about redemption and atonement are born of a belief in the fall of man1 on account of the sins of our first parents1 and of the declaration that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin4 ,the foundation has crumbled4 ,no intelligent person now believes in the fall of man--that our first parents were perfect1 and that their descendants grew worse and worse1 at least until the coming of ,christ4 ,intelligent men now believe that ages and ages before the dawn of history1 man was a poor1 naked1 cruel1 ignorant and degraded savage1 whose language consisted of a few sounds of terror1 of hatred and delight2 that he devoured his fellow-man1 having all the vices1 but not all the virtues of the beasts2 that the journey from the den to the home1 the palace1 has been long and painful1 through many centuries of suffering1 of cruelty and war2 through many ages of discovery1 invention1 self-sacrifice and thought4 ,redemption and atonement are left without a fact on which to rest4 ,the idea that an infinite ,god1 creator of all worlds1 came to this grain of sand1 learned the trade of a carpenter1 discussed with ,pharisees and scribes1 and allowed a few infuriated ,hebrews to put him to death that he might atone for the sins of men and redeem a few believers from the consequences of his own wrath1 can find no lodgment in a good and natural brain4 ,in no mythology can anything more monstrously unbelievable be found4 ,but if ,christ were a man and attacked the religion of his times because it was cruel and absurd2 if he endeavored to found a religion of kindness1 of good deeds1 to take the place of heartlessness and ceremony1 and if1 rather than to deny what he believed to be right and true1 he suffered death1 then he was a noble man--a benefactor of his race4 ,but if he were ,god there was no need of this4 ,the ,jews did not wish to kill ,god4 ,if he had only made himself known all knees would have touched the ground4 ,if he were ,god it required no heroism to die4 ,he knew that what we call death is but the opening of the gates of eternal life4 ,if he were ,god there was no self-sacrifice4 ,he had no need to suffer pain4 ,he could have changed the crucifixion to a joy4 ,even the editors of religious weeklies see that there is no escape from these conclusions--from these arguments--and so1 instead of attacking the arguments1 they attack the man who makes them4 ,fifth4--,i denounced the law of ,new ,york that makes an attempt to commit suicide a crime4 ,it seems to me that one who has suffered so much that he passionately longs for death should be pitied1 instead of punished--helped rather than imprisoned4 ,a despairing woman who had vainly sought for leave to toil1 a woman without home1 without friends1 without bread1 with clasped hands1 with tear-filled eyes1 with broken words of prayer1 in the darkness of night leaps from the dock1 hoping1 longing for the tearless sleep of death4 ,she is rescued by a kind1 courageous man1 handed over to the authorities1 indicted1 tried1 convicted1 clothed in a convict's garb and locked in a felon's cell4 ,to me this law seems barbarous and absurd1 a law that only savages would enforce4 ,sixth4--,in this discussion a curious thing has happened4 ,for several centuries the clergy have declared that while infidelity is a very good thing to live by1 it is a bad support1 a wretched consolation1 in the hour of death4 ,they have in spite of the truth1 declared that all the great unbelievers died trembling with fear1 asking ,god for mercy1 surrounded by fiends1 in the torments of despair4 ,think of the thousands and thousands of clergymen who have described the last agonies of ,voltaire1 who died as peacefully as a happy child smilingly passes from play to slumber2 the final anguish of ,hume1 who fell into his last sleep as serenely as a river1 running between green and shaded banks1 reaches the sea2 the despair of ,thomas ,paine1 one of the bravest1 one of the noblest men1 who met the night of death untroubled as a star that meets the morning4 ,at the same time these ministers admitted that the average murderer could meet death on the scaffold with perfect serenity1 and could smilingly ask the people who had gathered to see him killed to meet him in heaven4 ,but the honest man who had expressed his honest thoughts against the creed of the church in power could not die in peace4 ,god would see to it that his last moments should be filled with the insanity of fear--that with his last breath he should utter the shriek of remorse1 the cry for pardon4 ,this has all changed1 and now the clergy1 in their sermons answering me1 declare that the atheists1 the freethinkers1 have no fear of death--that to avoid some little annoyance1 a passing inconvenience1 they gladly and cheerfully put out the light of life4 ,it is now said that infidels believe that death is the end--that it is a dreamless sleep--that it is without pain--that therefore they have no fear1 care nothing for gods1 or heavens or hells1 nothing for the threats of the pulpit1 nothing for the day of judgment1 and that when life becomes a burden they carelessly throw it down4 ,the infidels are so afraid of death that they commit suicide4 ,this certainly is a great change1 and ,i congratulate myself on having forced the clergy to contradict themselves4 ,seventh4--,the clergy take the position that the atheist1 the unbeliever1 has no standard of morality--that he can have no real conception of right and wrong4 ,they are of the opinion that it is impossible for one to be moral or good unless he believes in some ,being far above himself4 ,in this connection we might ask how ,god can be moral or good unless he believes in some ,being superior to himself8 ,what is morality8 ,it is the best thing to do under the circumstances4 ,what is the best thing to do under the circumstances8 ,that which will increase the sum of human happiness--or lessen it the least4 ,happiness in its highest1 noblest form1 is the only good2 that which increases or preserves or creates happiness is moral--that which decreases it1 or puts it in peril1 is immoral4 ,it is not hard for an atheist--for an unbeliever--to keep his hands out of the fire4 ,he knows that burning his hands will not increase his well-being1 and he is moral enough to keep them out of the flames4 ,so it may be said that each man acts according to his intelligence--so far as what he considers his own good is concerned4 ,sometimes he is swayed by passion1 by prejudice1 by ignorance--but when he is really intelligent1 master of himself1 he does what he believes is best for him4 ,if he is intelligent enough he knows that what is really good for him is good for others--for all the world4 ,it is impossible for me to see' why any belief in the supernatural is necessary to have a keen perception of right and wrong4 ,every man who has the capacity to suffer and enjoy1 and has imagination enough to give the same capacity to others1 has within himself the natural basis of all morality4 ,the idea of morality was born here1 in this world1 of the experience1 the intelligence of mankind4 ,morality is not of supernatural origin4 ,it did not fall from the clouds1 and it needs no belief in the supernatural1 no supernatural promises or threats1 no supernatural heavens or hells to give it force and life4 ,subjects who are governed by the threats and promises of a king are merely slaves4 ,they are not governed by the ideal1 by noble views of right and wrong4 ,they are obedient cowards1 controlled by fear1 or beggars governed by rewards--by alms4 ,right and wrong exist in the nature of things4 ,murder was just as criminal before as after the promulgation of the ,ten ,commandments4 ,eighth4--,the clergy take the position that the atheist1 the unbeliever1 has no standard of morality--that he can have no real conception of right and wrong4 ,they are of the opinion that it is impossible for one to be moral or good unless he believes in some ,being far above himself4 ,in this connection we might ask how ,god can be moral or good unless he believes in some ,being superior to himself8 ,what is morality8 ,it is the best thing to do under the circumstances4 ,what is the best thing to do under the circumstances8 ,that which will increase the sum of human happiness--or lessen it the least4 ,happiness in its highest1 noblest form1 is the only good2 that which increases or preserves or creates happiness is moral--that which decreases it1 or puts it in peril1 is immoral4 ,it is not hard for an atheist--for an unbeliever--to keep his hands out of the fire4 ,he knows that burning his hands will not increase his well-being1 and he is moral enough to keep them out of the flames4 ,so it may be said that each man acts according to his intelligence--so far as what he ,considers his own good is concerned4 ,sometimes he is swayed by passion1 by prejudice1 by ignorance--but when he is really intelligent1 master of himself1 he does what he believes is best for him4 ,if he is intelligent enough he knows that what is really good for him is food for others--for all the world4 ,it is impossible for me to see why any belief in the supernatural is necessary to have a keen perception of right and wrong4 ,every man who has the capacity to suffer and enjoy1 and has imagination enough to give the same capacity to others1 has within himself the natural basis of all morality4 ,the idea of morality was born here1 in this world1 of the experience1 the intelligence of mankind4 ,morality is not of supernatural origin4 ,it did not fall from the clouds1 and it needs no belief in the supernatural1 no supernatural promises or threats1 no supernatural heavens or hells to give it force and life4 ,subjects who are governed by the threats and promises of a king are merely slaves4 ,they are not governed by the ideal1 by noble views of right and wrong4 ,they are obedient cowards1 controlled by fear1 or beggars governed by rewards--by alms4 ,right and wrong exist in the nature of things4 ,murder was just as criminal before as after the promulgation of the ,ten ,commandments4 ,eighth4--,many of the clergy1 some editors and some writers of letters who have answered me1 have said that suicide is the worst of crimes--that a man had better murder somebody else than himself4 ,one clergyman gives as a reason for this statement that the suicide dies in an act of sin1 and therefore he had better kill another person4 ,probably he would commit a less crime if he would murder his wife or mother4 ,i do not see that it is any worse to die than to live in sin4 ,to say that it is not as wicked to murder another as yourself seems absurd4 ,the man about to kill himself wishes to die4 ,why is it better for him to kill another man1 who wishes to live8 ,to my mind it seems clear that you had better injure yourself than another4 ,better be a spendthrift than a thief4 ,better throw away your own money than steal the money of another--better kill yourself if you wish to die than murder one whose life is full of joy4 ,the clergy tell us that ,god is everywhere1 and that it is one of the greatest possible crimes to rush into his presence4 ,it is wonderful how much they know about ,god and how little about their fellow-men4 ,wonderful the amount of their information about other worlds and how limited their knowledge is of this4 ,there may or may not be an infinite ,being4 ,i neither affirm nor deny4 ,i am honest enough to say that ,i do not know4 ,i am candid enough to admit that the question is beyond the limitations of my mind4 ,yet ,i think ,i know as much on that subject as any human being knows or ever knew1 and that is--nothing4 ,i do not say that there is not another world1 another life2 neither do ,i say that there is4 ,i say that ,i do not know4 ,it seems to me that every sane and honest man must say the same4 ,but if there is an infinitely good ,god and another world1 then the infinitely good ,god will be just as good to us in that world as he is in this4 ,if this infinitely good ,god loves his children in this world1 he will love them in another4 ,if he loves a man when he is alive1 he will not hate him the instant he is dead4 ,if we are the children of an infinitely wise and powerful ,god1 he knew exactly what we would do--the temptations that we could and could not withstand--knew exactly the effect that everything would have upon us1 knew under what circumstances we would take our lives--and produced such circumstances himself4 ,it is perfectly apparent that there are many people incapable by nature of bearing the burdens of life1 incapable of preserving their mental poise in stress and strain of disaster1 disease and loss1 and who by failure1 by misfortune and want1 are driven to despair and insanity1 in whose darkened minds there comes like a flash of lightning in the night1 the thought of death1 a thought so strong1 so vivid1 that all fear is lost1 all ties broken1 all duties1 all obligations1 all hopes forgotten1 and naught remains except a fierce and wild desire to die4 ,thousands and thousands become moody1 melancholy1 brood upon loss of money1 of position1 of friends1 until reason abdicates and frenzy takes possession of the soul4 ,if there be an infinitely wise and powerful ,god1 all this was known to him from the beginning1 and he so created things1 established relations1 put in operation causes and effects1 that all that has happened was the necessary result of his own acts4 ,ninth4--,nearly all who have tried to answer what ,i said have been exceedingly careful to misquote me1 and then answer something that ,i never uttered4 ,they have declared that ,i have advised people who were in trouble1 somewhat annoyed1 to kill themselves2 that ,i have told men who have lost their money1 who had failed in business1 who were not good in health1 to kill themselves at once1 without taking into consideration any duty that they owed to wives1 children1 friends1 or society4 ,no man has a right to leave his wife to fight the battle alone if he is able to help4 ,no man has a right to desert his children if he can possibly be of use4 ,as long as he can add to the comfort of those he loves1 as long as he can stand between wife and misery1 between child and want1 as long as he can be of any use1 it is his duty to remain4 ,i believe in the cheerful view1 in looking at the sunny side of things1 in bearing with fortitude the evils of life1 in struggling against adversity1 in finding the fuel of laughter even in disaster1 in having confidence in to-morrow1 in finding the pearl of joy among the flints and shards1 and in changing by the alchemy of patience even evil things to good4 ,i believe in the gospel of cheerfulness1 of courage and good nature4 ,of the future ,i have no fear4 ,my fate is the fate of the world--of all that live4 ,my anxieties are about this life1 this world4 ,about the phantoms called gods and their impossible hells1 ,i have no care1 no fear4 ,the existence of ,god ,i neither affirm nor deny1 ,i wait4 ,the immortality of the soul ,i neither affirm nor deny4 ,i hope--hope for all of the children of men4 ,i have never denied the existence of another world1 nor the immortality of the soul4 ,for many years ,i have said that the idea of immortality1 that like a sea has ebbed and flowed in the human heart1 with its countless waves of hope and fear beating against the shores and rocks of time and fate1 was not born of any book1 nor of any creed1 nor of any religion4 ,it was born of human affection1 and it will continue to ebb and flow beneath the mists and clouds of doubt and darkness as long as love kisses the lips of death4 ,what ,i deny is the immortality of pain1 the eternity of torture4 ,after all1 the instinct of self-preservation is strong4 ,people do not kill themselves on the advice of friends or enemies4 ,all wish to be happy1 to enjoy life2 all wish for food and roof and raiment1 for friends1 and as long as life gives joy1 the idea of self-destruction never enters the human mind4 ,the oppressors1 the tyrants1 those who trample on the rights of others1 the robbers of the poor1 those who put wages below the living point1 the ministers who make people insane by preaching the dogma of eternal pain2 these are the men who drive the weak1 the suffering and the helpless down to death4 ,it will not do to say that ,god has appointed a time for each to die4 ,of this there is1 and there can be1 no evidence4 ,there is no evidence that any god takes any interest in the affairs of men--that any sides with the right or helps the weak1 protects the innocent or rescues the oppressed4 ,even the clergy admit that their ,god1 through all ages1 has allowed his friends1 his worshipers1 to be imprisoned1 tortured and murdered by his enemies4 ,such is the protection of ,god4 ,billions of prayers have been uttered2 has one been answered8 ,who sends plague1 pestilence and famine8 ,who bids the earthquake devour and the volcano to overwhelm8 ,tenth4--,again1 ,i say that it is wonderful to me that so many men1 so many women endure and carry their burdens to the natural end2 that so many1 in spite of age1 ache and penury1 guard with trembling hands the spark of life2 that prisoners for life toil and suffer to the last2 that the helpless wretches in poorhouses and asylums cling to life2 that the exiles in ,siberia1 loaded with chains1 scarred with the knout1 live on2 that the incurables1 whose every breath is a pang1 and for whom the future has only pain1 should fear the merciful touch and clasp of death4 ,it is but a few steps at most from the cradle to the grave2 a short journey4 ,the suicide hastens1 shortens the path1 loses the afternoon1 the twilight1 the dusk of life's day2 loses what he does not want1 what he cannot bear4 ,in the tempest of despair1 in the blind fury of madness1 or in the calm of thought and choice1 the beleaguered soul finds the serenity of death4 ,let us leave the dead where nature leaves them4 ,we know nothing of any realm that lies beyond the horizon of the known1 beyond the end of life4 ,let us be honest with ourselves and others4 ,let us pity the suffering1 the despairing1 the men and women hunted and pursued by grief and shame1 by misery and want1 by chance and fate until their only friend is death4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,,suicide ,a ,,sin4 99 ,new ,york ,journal1 #ahje4 ,an ,interview4 ,question4 ,do you think that what you have written about suicide has caused people to take their lives8 ,answer4 ,no1 ,i do not4 ,people do not kill themselves because of the ideas of others4 ,they are the victims of misfortune4 ,question4 ,what do you consider the chief cause of suicide8 ,answer4 ,there are many causes4 ,some individuals are crossed in love1 others are bankrupt in estate or reputation1 still others are diseased in body and frequently in mind4 ,there are a thousand and one causes that lead up to the final act4 ,question4 ,do you consider that nationality plays a part in these tragedies8 ,answer4 ,no1 it is a question of individuals4 ,there are those whose sorrows are greater than they can bear4 ,these sufferers seek the peace of death4 ,question4 ,do you1 then1 advise suicide8 ,answer4 ,no1 ,i have never done so1 but ,i have said1 and still say1 that there are circumstances under which it is justifiable for a person to take his life4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the law which prohibits self-destruction8 ,answer4 ,that it is absurd and ridiculous4 ,the other day a man was tried before ,judge ,goff for having tried to kill himself4 ,i think he pleaded guilty1 and the ,judge1 after speaking of the terrible crime of the poor wretch1 sentenced him to the penitentiary for two years4 ,this was an outrage2 infamous in every way1 and a disgrace to our civilization4 ,question4 ,do you believe that such a law will prevent the frequency of suicides8 ,answer4 ,by no means4 ,after this1 persons in ,new ,york who have made up their minds to commit suicide will see to it that they succeed4 ,question4 ,have your opinions been in any way modified since your first announcement of them8 ,answer4 ,no1 ,i feel now as ,i have felt for many years4 ,no one can answer my articles on suicide1 because no one can satisfactorily refute them4 ,every man of sense knows that a person being devoured by a cancer has the right to take morphine1 and pass from agony to dreamless sleep4 ,so1 too1 there are circumstances under which a man has the right to end his pain of mind4 ,question4 ,have you seen in the papers that many who have killed themselves have had on their persons some article of yours on suicide8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i have read such accounts1 but ,i repeat that ,i do not think these persons were led to kill themselves by reading the articles4 ,many people who have killed themselves were found to have ,bibles or tracts in their pockets4 ,question4 ,how do you account for the presence of the latter8 ,answer4 ,the reason of this is that the theologians know nothing4 ,the pious imagine that their ,god has placed us here for some wise and inscrutable purpose1 and that he will call for us when he wants us4 ,all this is idiotic4 ,when a man is of no use to himself or to others1 when his days and nights are filled with pain and sorrow1 why should he remain to endure them longer8 ,,suicide ,a ,,sin4 99 ,new ,york ,herald1 #ahig4 ,an ,interview4 ,,col4 ,,robert ,g4 ,,ingersoll was seen at his house and asked if he had read the ,rev4 ,merle ,st4 ,croix ,wright's sermon4 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,i have read the sermon1 and also an interview had with the reverend gentleman4 ,long ago ,i gave my views about suicide1 and ,i entertain the same views still4 ,mr4 ,wright's sermon has stirred up quite a commotion among the orthodox ministers4 ,this commotion may always be expected when anything sensible comes from a pulpit4 ,mr4 ,wright has mixed a little common sense with his theology1 and1 of course this has displeased the truly orthodox4 ,sense is the bitterest foe that theology has4 ,no system of supernatural religion can outlive a good dose of real good sense4 ,the orthodox ministers take the ground that an infinite ,being created man1 put him on the earth and determined his days4 ,they say that ,god desires every person to live until he1 ,god1 calls for his soul4 ,they insist that we are all on guard and must remain so until relieved by a higher power--the superior officer4 ,the trouble with this doctrine is that it proves too much4 ,it proves that ,god kills every person who dies as we say1 according to nature4 ,it proves that we ought to say1 according to ,god4 ,it proves that ,god sends the earthquake1 the cyclone1 the pestilence1 for the purpose of killing people4 ,it proves that all diseases and all accidents are his messengers1 and that all who do not kill themselves1 die by the act1 and in accordance with the will of ,god4 ,it also shows that when a man is murdered1 it is in harmony with1 and a part of the divine plan4 ,when ,god created the man who was murdered1 he knew that he would be murdered1 and when he made the man who committed the murder1 he knew exactly what he would do4 ,so that the murder was the act of ,god4 ,can it be said that ,god intended that thousands should die of famine and that he1 to accomplish his purpose1 withheld the rain8 ,can we say that he intended that thousands of innocent men should die in dungeons and on scaffolds8 ,is it possible that a man1 slowly being devoured by a cancer1 whose days and nights are filled with torture1 who is useless to himself and a burden to others1 is carrying out the will of ,god8 ,does ,god enjoy his agony8 ,is ,god thrilled by the music of his moans--the melody of his shrieks8 ,this frightful doctrine makes ,god an infinite monster1 and every human being a slave2 a victim4 ,this doctrine is not only infamous but it is idiotic4 ,it makes ,god the only criminal in the universe4 ,now1 if we are governed by reason1 if we use our senses and our minds1 and have courage enough to be honest2 if we know a little of the world's history1 then we know--if we know anything--that man has taken his chances1 precisely the same as other animals4 ,he has been destroyed by heat and cold1 by flood and fire1 by storm and famine1 by countless diseases1 by numberless accidents4 ,by his intelligence1 his cunning1 his strength1 his foresight1 he has managed to escape utter destruction4 ,he has defended himself4 ,he has received no supernatural aid4 ,neither has he been attacked by any supernatural power4 ,nothing has ever happened in nature as the result of a purpose to benefit or injure the human race4 ,consequently the question of the right or wrong of suicide is not in any way affected by a supposed obligation to the ,infinite4 ,all theological considerations must be thrown aside because we see and know that the laws of life are the same for all living things--that when the conditions are favorable1 the living multiply and life lengthens1 and when the conditions are unfavorable1 the living decrease and life shortens4 ,we have no evidence of any interference of any power superior to nature4 ,taking into consideration the fact that all the duties and obligations of man must be to his fellows1 to sentient beings1 here in this world1 and that he owes no duty and is under no obligation to any phantoms of the air1 then it is easy to determine whether a man under certain circumstances has the right to end his life4 ,if he can be of no use to others--if he is of no use to himself--if he is a burden to others--a curse to himself--why should he remain8 ,by ending his life he ends his sufferings and adds to the well-being of others4 ,he lessens misery and increases happiness4 ,under such circumstances undoubtedly a man has the right to stop the pulse of pain and woo the sleep that has no dream4 ,i do not think that the discussion of this question is of much importance1 but ,i am glad that a clergyman has taken a natural and a sensible position1 and that he has reasoned not like a minister1 but like a man4 ,when wisdom comes from the pulpit ,i am delighted and surprised4 ,i feel then that there is a little light in the ,east1 possibly the dawn of a better day4 ,i congratulate the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,wright1 and thank him for his brave and philosophic words4 ,there is still another thing4 ,certainly a man has the right to avoid death1 to save himself from accident and disease4 ,if he has this right1 then the theologians must admit that ,god1 in making his decrees1 took into consideration the result of such actions4 ,now1 if ,god knew that while most men would avoid death1 some would seek it1 and if his decrees were so made that they would harmonize with the acts of those who would avoid death1 can we say that he did not1 in making his decrees1 take into consideration the acts of those who would seek death8 ,let us remember that all actions1 good1 bad and indifferent1 are the necessary children of conditions--that there is no chance in the natural world in which we live4 ,so1 we must keep in mind that all real opinions are honest1 and that all have the same right to express their thoughts4 ,let us be charitable4 ,when some suffering wretch1 wild with pain1 crazed with regret1 frenzied with fear1 with desperate hand unties the knot of life1 let us have pity--,let us be generous4 ,,suicide ,,and ,,sanity4 99 ,new ,york ,press1 #ahig4 ,an ,interview4 ,question4 ,is a suicide necessarily insane8 was the first question1 to which ,colonel ,ingersoll replied3 ,answer4 ,no4 ,at the same time ,i believe that a great majority of suicides are insane4 ,there are circumstances under which suicide is natural1 sensible and right4 ,when a man is of no use to himself1 when he can be of no use to others1 when his life is filled with agony1 when the future has no promise of relief1 then ,i think he has the right to cast the burden of life away and seek the repose of death4 ,question4 ,is a suicide necessarily a coward8 ,answer4 ,i cannot conceive of cowardice in connection with suicide4 ,of nearly all things death is the most feared4 ,and the man who voluntarily enters the realm of death cannot properly be called a coward4 ,many men who kill themselves forget the duties they owe to others--forget their wives and children4 ,such men are heartless1 wicked1 brutal2 but they are not cowards4 ,question4 ,when is the suicide of the sane justifiable8 ,answer4 ,to escape death by torture2 to avoid being devoured by a cancer2 to prevent being a burden on those you love2 when you can be of no use to others or to yourself2 when life is unbearable2 when in all the horizon of the future there is no star of hope4 ,question4 ,do you believe that any suicides have been caused or encouraged by your declaration three years ago that suicide sometimes was justifiable8 ,answer4 ,many preachers talk as though ,i had inaugurated1 invented1 suicide1 as though no one who had not read my ideas on suicide had ever taken his own life4 ,talk as long as language lasts1 you cannot induce a man to kill himself4 ,the man who takes his own life does not go to others to find reasons or excuses4 ,question4 ,on the whole is the world made better or worse by suicides8 ,answer4 ,better by some and poorer by others4 ,question4 ,why is it that ,germany1 said to be the most educated of civilized nations1 leads the world in suicides8 ,answer4 ,i do not know that ,germany is the most educated2 neither do ,i know that suicide is more frequent there than in all other countries4 ,i know that the struggle for life is severe in ,germany1 that the laws are unjust1 that the government is oppressive1 that the people are sentimental1 that they brood over their troubles and easily become hopeless4 ,question4 ,if suicide is sometimes justifiable1 is not killing of born idiots and infants hopelessly handicapped at birth equally so8 ,answer4 ,there is no relation between the questions--between suicides and killing idiots4 ,suicide may1 under certain circumstances1 be right and killing idiots may be wrong2 killing idiots may be right and suicide may be wrong4 ,when we look about us1 when we read interviews with preachers about ,jonah1 we know that all the idiots have not been killed4 ,question4 ,should suicide be forbidden by law8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,a law that provides for the punishment of those who attempt to commit suicide is idiotic4 ,those who are willing to meet death are not afraid of law4 ,the only effect of such a law would be to make the person who had concluded to kill himself a little more careful to succeed4 ,question4 ,what is your belief about virtue1 morality and religion8 ,answer4 ,i believe that all actions that tend to the well-being of sentient beings are virtuous and moral4 ,i believe that real religion consists in doing good4 ,i do not believe in phantoms4 ,i believe in the uniformity of nature2 that matter will forever attract matter in proportion to mass and distance2 that1 under the same circumstances1 falling bodies will attain the same speed1 increasing in exact proportion to distance2 that light will always1 under the same circumstances1 be reflected at the same angle2 that it will always travel with the same velocity2 that air will forever be lighter than water1 and gold heavier than iron2 that all substances will be true to their natures2 that a certain degree of heat will always expand the metals and change water into steam2 that a certain degree of cold will cause the metals to shrink and change water into ice2 that all atoms will forever be in motion2 that like causes will forever produce like effects1 that force will be overcome only by force2 that no atom of matter will ever be created or destroyed2 that the energy in the universe will forever remain the same1 nothing lost1 nothing gained2 that all that has been possible has happened1 and that all that will be possible will happen2 that the seeds and causes of all thoughts1 dreams1 fancies and actions1 of all virtues and all vices1 of all successes and all failures1 are in nature2 that there is in the universe no power superior to nature2 that man is under no obligation to the imaginary gods2 that all his obligations and duties are to be discharged and done in this world2 that right and wrong do not depend on the will of an infinite ,being1 but on the consequences of actions1 and that these consequences necessarily flow from the nature of things4 ,i believe that the universe is natural4 ,,is ,,avarice ,,triumphant8 99,a reply to ,general ,rush ,hawkins' article1 ,brutality and ,avarice ,triumphant1 published in the ,north ,american ,review1 ,june1 #ahia4 ,,there are many people1 in all countries1 who seem to enjoy individual and national decay4 ,they love to prophesy the triumph of evil4 ,they mistake the afternoon of their own lives for the evening of the world4 ,to them everything has changed4 ,men are no longer honest or brave1 and women have ceased to be beautiful4 ,they are dyspeptic1 and it gives them the greatest pleasure to say that the art of cooking has been lost4 ,for many generations many of these people occupied the pulpits4 ,they lifted the hand of warning whenever the human race took a step in advance4 ,as wealth increased1 they declared that honesty and goodness and self-denial and charity were vanishing from the earth4 ,they doubted the morality of well-dressed people--considered it impossible that the prosperous should be pious4 ,like owls sitting on the limbs of a dead tree1 they hooted the obsequies of spring1 believing it would come no more4 ,there are some patriots who think it their duty to malign and slander the land of their birth4 ,they feel that they have a kind of ,cassandra mission1 and they really seem to enjoy their work4 ,they honestly believe that every kind of crime is on the increase1 that the courts are all corrupt1 that the legislators are bribed1 that the witnesses are suborned1 that all holders of office are dishonest2 and they feel like a modern ,marius sitting amid the ruins of all the virtues4 ,it is useless to endeavor to persuade these people that they are wrong4 ,they do not want arguments1 because they will not heed them4 ,they need medicine4 ,their case is not for a philosopher1 but for a physician4 ,general ,hawkins is probably right when he says that some fraudulent shoes1 some useless muskets1 and some worn-out vessels were sold to the ,government during the war2 but we must remember that there were millions and millions of as good shoes as art and honesty could make1 millions of the best muskets ever constructed1 and hundreds of the most magnificent ships ever built1 sold to the ,government during the same period4 ,we must not mistake an eddy for the main stream4 ,we must also remember another thing3 there were millions of good1 brave1 and patriotic men to wear the shoes1 to use the muskets1 and to man the ships4 ,so it is probably true that ,congress was extravagant in land subsidies voted to railroads2 but that this legislation was secured by bribery is preposterous4 ,it was all done in the light of noon4 ,there is not the slightest evidence tending to show that the general policy of hastening the construction of railways through the ,territories of the ,united ,states was corruptly adopted--not the slightest4 ,at the same time1 it may be that some members of ,congress were induced by personal considerations to vote for such subsidies4 ,as a matter of fact1 the policy was wise1 and through the granting of the subsidies thousands of miles of railways were built1 and these railways have given to civilization vast territories which otherwise would have remained substantially useless to the world4 ,where at that time was a wilderness1 now are some of the most thriving cities in the ,united ,states--a great1 an industrious1 and a happy population4 ,the results have justified the action of ,congress4 ,it is also true that some railroads have been wrecked in the ,united ,states1 but most of these wrecks have been the result of competition4 ,it is the same with corporations as with individuals--the powerful combine against the weak4 ,in the world of commerce and business is the great law of the survival of the strongest4 ,railroads are not eleemosynary institutions4 ,they have but little regard for the rights of one another4 ,some fortunes have been made by the criminal wrecking of roads1 but even in the business of corporations honesty is the best policy1 and the companies that have acted in accordance with the highest standard1 other things being equal1 have reaped the richest harvest4 ,many railways were built in advance of a demand2 they had to develop the country through which they passed4 ,while they waited for immigration1 interest accumulated2 as a result foreclosure took place2 then reorganization4 ,by that time the country had been populated2 towns were springing up along the line2 increased business was the result4 ,on the new bonds and the new stock the company paid interest and dividends4 ,then the ones who first invested and lost their money felt that they had been defrauded4 ,so it is easy to say that certain men are guilty of crimes--easy to indict the entire nation1 and at the same time impossible to substantiate one of the charges4 ,everyone who knows the history of the ,star-,route trials knows that nothing was established against the defendants1 knows that every effort was made by the ,government to convict them1 and also knows that an unprejudiced jury of twelve men1 never suspected of being improperly influenced1 after having heard the entire case1 pronounced the defendants not guilty4 ,after this1 of course1 any one can say1 who knows nothing of the evidence and who cares nothing for the facts1 that the defendants were all guilty4 ,it may also be true that some settlers in the far ,west have taken timber from the public lands1 and it may be that it was a necessity4 ,our laws and regulations were such that where a settler was entitled to take up a certain amount of land he had to take it all in one place2 he could not take a certain number of acres on the plains and a certain number of acres in the timber4 ,the consequence was that when he settled upon the land--the land that he could cultivate--he took the timber that he needed from the ,government land1 and this has been called stealing4 ,so ,i suppose it may be said that the cattle stole the ,government's grass and possibly drank the ,government's water4 ,it will also be admitted with pleasure that stock has been watered in this country4 ,and what is the crime or practice known as watering stock8 ,for instance1 you have a railroad one hundred miles long1 worth1 we will say1 #c1jjj1jjj--;able to pay interest on that sum at the rate of six per cent4 ,now1 we all know that the amount of stock issued has nothing to do with the value of the thing represented by the stock4 ,if there was one share of stock representing this railroad1 it would be worth three million dollars1 whether it said on its face it was one dollar or one hundred dollars4 ,if there were three million shares of stock issued on this property1 they would be worth one dollar apiece1 and1 no matter whether it said on this stock that each share was a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars1 the share would be worth one dollar--no more1 no less4 ,if any one wishes to find the value of stock1 he should find the value of the thing represented by the stock4 ,it is perfectly clear that1 if a pie is worth one dollar1 and you cut it into four pieces1 each piece is worth twenty-five cents2 and if you cut it in a thousand pieces1 you do not increase the value of the pie4 ,if1 then1 you wish to find the value of a share of stock1 find its relation to the thing represented by all the stock4 ,it can also be safely admitted that trusts have been formed4 ,the reason is perfectly clear4 ,corporations are like individuals--they combine4 ,unfortunate corporations become socialistic1 anarchistic1 and cry out against the abuses of trusts4 ,it is natural for corporations to defend themselves--natural for them to stop ruinous competition by a profitable pool2 and when strong corporations combine1 little corporations suffer4 ,it is with corporations as with fishes--the large eat the little2 and it may be that this will prove a public benefit in the end4 ,when the large corporations have taken possession of the little ones1 it may be that the ,government will take possession of them--the ,government being the largest corporation of them all4 ,it is to be regretted that all houses are not fireproof2 but certainly no one imagines that the people of this country build houses for the purpose of having them burned1 or that they erect hotels having in view the broiling of guests4 ,men act as they must2 that is to say1 according to wants and necessities4 ,in a new country the buildings are cheaper than in an old one1 money is scarcer1 interest higher1 and consequently people build cheaply and take the risks of fire4 ,they do not do this on account of the ,constitution of the ,united ,states1 or the action of political parties1 or the general idea that man is entitled to be free4 ,in the hotels of ,europe it may be that there is not as great danger of fire as of famine4 ,the destruction of game and of the singing birds is to be greatly regretted1 not only in this country1 but in all others4 ,the people of ,america have been too busy felling forests1 ploughing fields1 and building houses1 to cultivate1 to the highest degree1 the aesthetic side of their natures4 ,nature has been somewhat ruthless with us4 ,the storms of winter breasted by the ,western pioneer1 the whirlwinds of summer1 have tended1 it may be1 to harden somewhat the sensibilities2 in consequence of which they have allowed their horses and cattle to bear the rigors of the same climate4 ,it is also true that the seal-fisheries are being destroyed1 in the interest of the present1 by those who care nothing for the future4 ,all these things are to be deprecated1 are to be spoken against2 but we must not hint1 provided we are lovers of the ,republic1 that such things are caused by free institutions4 ,general ,hawkins asserts that ,christianity has neither preached nor practiced humanity towards animals1 while at the same time ,sunday school children by hundreds of thousands are taught what a terrible thing it is to break the ,sabbath2 that museum trustees tremble with pious horror at the suggestion of opening the doors leading to the collections on that day1 and that no protests have come from lawmakers or the ,christian clergy4 ,few people will suspect me of going out of my way to take care of ,christianity or of the clergy4 ,at the same time1 ,i can afford to state the truth4 ,while there is not much in the ,bible with regard to practicing humanity toward animals1 there is at least this3 ,the merciful man is merciful to his beast4 ,of course1 ,i am not alluding now to the example set by ,jehovah when he destroyed the cattle of the ,egyptians with hailstones and diseases on account of the sins of their owners4 ,in regard to the treatment of animals ,christians have been much like other people4 ,so1 hundreds of lawmakers have not only protested against cruelty to animals1 but enough have protested against it to secure the enactment of laws making cruelty toward animals a crime4 ,henry ,bergh1 who did as much good as any man who has lived in the nineteenth century1 was seconded in his efforts by many of the ,christian clergy not only1 but by hundreds and thousands of professing ,christians--probably millions4 ,let us be honest4 ,it is true that the clergy are apt to lose the distinction between offences and virtues1 to regard the little as the important--that is to say1 to invert the pyramid4 ,it is true that the ,indians have been badly treated4 ,it is true that the fringe of civilization has been composed of many low and cruel men4 ,it is true that the red man has been demoralized by the vices of the white4 ,it is a frightful fact that1 when a superior race meets an inferior1 the inferior imitates only the vices of the superior1 and the superior those of the inferior4 ,they exchange faults and failings4 ,this is one of the most terrible facts in the history of the human race4 ,nothing can be said to justify our treatment of the ,indians4 ,there is1 however1 this shadow of an excuse3 ,in the old times1 when we lived along the ,atlantic1 it hardly occurred to our ancestors that they could ever go beyond the ,ohio2 so the first treaty with the ,indians drove them back but a few miles4 ,in a little while1 through immigration1 the white race passed the line1 and another treaty was made1 forcing the ,indians still further west2 yet the tide of immigration kept on1 and in a little while again the line was passed1 the treaty violated4 ,another treaty was made1 pushing the ,indians still farther toward the ,pacific1 across the ,illinois1 across the ,mississippi1 across the ,missouri1 violating at every step some treaty made2 and each treaty born of the incapacity of the white men who made it to foretell the growth of the ,republic4 ,but the author of ,brutality and ,avarice ,triumphant made a great mistake when he selected the last thirty years of our national life as the period within which the ,americans have made a change of the national motto appropriate1 and asserted that now there should be in place of the old motto the words1 ,plundering ,made ,easy4 ,most men believe in a sensible and manly patriotism4 ,no one should be blind to the defects in the laws and institutions of his country4 ,he should call attention to abuses1 not for the purpose of bringing his country into disrepute1 but that the abuses may cease and the defects be corrected4 ,he should do what he can to make his country great1 prosperous1 just1 and free4 ,but it is hardly fair to exaggerate the faults of your country for the purpose of calling attention to your own virtues1 or to earn the praise of a nation that hates your own4 ,this is what might be called wallowing in the gutter of reform4 ,the thirty years chosen as the time in which we as a nation have passed from virtue to the lowest depths of brutality and avarice are1 in fact1 the most glorious years in the life of this or of any other nation4 ,in #ahfa slavery was1 in a legal sense at least1 a national institution4 ,it was firmly imbedded in the ,federal ,constitution4 ,the ,fugitive ,slave ,law was in full force and effect4 ,in all the ,southern and in nearly all of the ,northern ,states it was a crime to give food1 shelter1 or raiment to a man or woman seeking liberty by flight4 ,humanity was illegal1 hospitality a misdemeanor1 and charity a crime4 ,men and women were sold like beasts4 ,mothers were robbed of their babes while they stood under our flag4 ,all the sacred relations of life were trampled beneath the bloody feet of brutality and avarice4 ,besides1 so firmly was slavery fixed in law and creed1 in statute and ,scripture1 that the tongues of honest men were imprisoned4 ,those who spoke for the slave were mobbed by ,northern lovers of the ,union4 ,now1 it seems to me that those were the days when the motto could properly have been1 ,plundering ,made ,easy4 ,those were the days of brutality1 and the brutality was practiced to the end that we might make money out of the unpaid labor of others4 ,it is not necessary to go into details as to the cause of the then condition2 it is enough to say that the whole nation1 ,north and ,south1 was responsible4 ,there were many years of compromise1 and thousands of statesmen1 so-called1 through conventions and platforms1 did what they could to preserve slavery and keep the ,union4 ,these efforts corrupted politics1 demoralized our statesmen1 polluted our courts1 and poisoned our literature4 ,the ,websters1 ,bentons1 and ,clays mistook temporary expedients for principles1 and really thought that the progress of the world could be stopped by the resolutions of a packed political convention4 ,yet these men1 mistaken as they really were1 worked and wrought unconsciously in the cause of human freedom4 ,they believed that the preservation of the ,union was the one important thing1 and that it could not be preserved unless slavery was protected--unless the ,north would be faithful to the bargain as written in the ,constitution4 ,for the purpose of keeping the nation true to the ,union and false to itself1 these men exerted every faculty and all their strength4 ,they exhausted their genius in showing that slavery was not1 after all1 very bad1 and that disunion was the most terrible calamity that could by any possibility befall the nation1 and that the ,union1 even at the price of slavery1 was the greatest possible blessing4 ,they did not suspect that slavery would finally strike the blow for disunion4 ,but when the time came and the ,south unsheathed the sword1 the teachings of these men as to the infinite value of the ,union gave to our flag millions of brave defenders4 ,now1 let us see what has been accomplished during the thirty years of ,brutality and ,avarice4 ,the ,republic has been rebuilt and reunited1 and we shall remain one people for many centuries to come4 ,the ,mississippi is nature's protest against disunion4 ,the ,constitution of the ,united ,states is now the charter of human freedom1 and all laws inconsistent with the idea that all men are entitled to liberty have been repealed4 ,the black man knows that the ,constitution is his shield1 that the laws protect him1 that our flag is his1 and the black mother feels that her babe belongs to her4 ,where the slave-pen used to be you will find the schoolhouse4 ,the dealer in human flesh is now a teacher2 instead of lacerating the back of a child1 he develops and illumines the mind of a pupil4 ,there is now freedom of speech4 ,men are allowed to utter their thoughts4 ,lips are no longer sealed by mobs4 ,never before in the history of our world has so much been done for education4 ,the amount of business done in a country on credit is the measure of confidence1 and confidence is based upon honesty4 ,so it may truthfully be said that1 where a vast deal of business is done on credit1 an exceedingly large per cent4 of the people are regarded as honest4 ,in our country a very large per cent4 of contracts are faithfully fulfilled4 ,probably there is no nation in the world where so much business is done on credit as in the ,united ,states4 ,the fact that the credit of the ,republic is second to that of no other nation on the globe would seem to be at least an indication of a somewhat general diffusion of honesty4 ,the author of ,brutality and ,avarice ,triumphant seems to be of the opinion that our country was demoralized by the war4 ,they who fight for the right are not degraded--they are ennobled4 ,when men face death and march to the mouths of the guns for a principle1 they grow great2 and if they come out of the conflict1 they come with added moral grandeur2 they become better men1 better citizens1 and they love more intensely than ever the great cause for the success of which they put their lives in pawn4 ,the period of the ,revolution produced great men4 ,after the great victory the sons of the heroes degenerated1 and some of the greatest principles involved in the ,revolution were almost forgotten4 ,during the ,civil war the ,north grew great and the ,south was educated4 ,never before in the history of mankind was there such a period of moral exaltation4 ,the names that shed the brightest1 the whitest light on the pages of our history became famous then4 ,against the few who were actuated by base and unworthy motives let us set the great army that fought for the ,republic1 the millions who bared their breasts to the storm1 the hundreds and hundreds of thousands who did their duty honestly1 nobly1 and went back to their wives and children with no thought except to preserve the liberties of themselves and their fellow-men4 ,of course there were some men who did not do their duty--some men false to themselves and to their country4 ,no one expects to find sixty-five millions of saints in ,america4 ,a few years ago a lady complained to the president of a ,western railroad that a brakeman had spoken to her with great rudeness4 ,the president expressed his regret at the incident1 and said among other things3 ,madam1 you have no idea how difficult it is for us to get gentlemen to fill all those places4 ,it is hardly to be expected that the ,american people should excel all others in the arts1 in poetry1 and in fiction4 ,we have been very busy taking possession of the ,republic4 ,it is hard to overestimate the courage1 the industry1 the self-denial it has required to fell the forests1 to subdue the fields1 to construct the roads1 and to build the countless homes4 ,what has been done is a certificate of the honesty and industry of our people4 ,it is not true that one of the unwritten mottoes of our business morals seem to say in the plainest phraseology possible3 ',successful wrong is right4' ,men in this country are not esteemed simply because they are rich2 inquiries are made as to how they made their money1 as to how they use it4 ,the ,american people do not fall upon their knees before the golden calf2 the worst that can be said is that they think too much of the gold of the calf--and this distinction is seen by the calves themselves4 ,nowhere in the world is honesty in business esteemed more highly than here4 ,there are millions of business men--merchants1 bankers1 and men engaged in all trades and professions--to whom reputation is as dear as life4 ,there is one thing in the article ,brutality and ,avarice ,triumphant that seems even more objectionable than the rest1 and that is the statement1 or1 rather1 the insinuation1 that all the crimes and the shortcomings of the ,american people can be accounted for by the fact that our ,government is a ,republic4 ,we are told that not long ago a ,french official complained to a friend that he was compelled to employ twenty clerks to do the work done by four under the empire1 and on being asked the reason answered3 ,it is the ,republic4 ,he was told that1 as he was the head of the bureau1 he could prevent the abuse1 to which he replied3 ,i know ,i have the power2 but ,i have been in this position for more than thirty years1 and am now too old to learn another occupation1 and ,i must make places for the friends of the deputies4 ,and then it is added by ,general ,hawkins3 ,and so it is here4 ,it seems to me that it cannot be fairly urged that we have abused the ,indians because we contend that all men have equal rights before the law1 or because we insist that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed4 ,the probability is that a careful reading of the history of the world will show that nations under the control of kings and emperors have been guilty of some cruelty4 ,to account for the bad we do by the good we believe1 is hardly logical4 ,our virtues should not be made responsible for our vices4 ,is it possible that free institutions tend to the demoralization of men8 ,is a man dishonest because he is a man and maintains the rights of men8 ,in order to be a moral nation must we be controlled by king or emperor8 ,is human liberty a mistake8 ,is it possible that a citizen of the great ,republic attacks the liberty of his fellow-citizens8 ,is he willing to abdicate8 ,is he willing to admit that his rights are not equal to the rights of others8 ,is he1 for the sake of what he calls morality1 willing to become a serf1 a servant or a slave8 ,is it possible that high character is impracticable in this ,republic8 ,is this the experience of the author of ,brutality and ,avarice ,triumphant8 ,is it true that intellectual achievement pays no dividends8 ,is it not a fact that ,america is to-day the best market in the world for books1 for music1 and for art8 ,there is in our country no real foundation for these wide and sweeping slanders4 ,this1 in my judgment1 is the best ,government1 the best country1 in the world4 ,the citizens of this ,republic are1 on the average1 better clothed and fed and educated than any other people4 ,they are fuller of life1 more progressive1 quicker to take advantage of the forces of nature1 than any other of the children of men4 ,here the burdens of government are lightest1 the responsibilities of the individual greatest1 and here1 in my judgment1 are to be worked out the most important problems of social science4 ,here in ,america is a finer sense of what is due from man to man than you will find in other lands4 ,we do not cringe to those whom chance has crowned2 we stand erect4 ,our sympathies are strong and quick4 ,generosity is almost a national failing4 ,the hand of honest want is rarely left unfilled4 ,great calamities open the hearts and hands of all4 ,here you will find democracy in the family--republicanism by the fireside4 ,say what you will1 the family is apt to be patterned after the government4 ,if a king is at the head of the nation1 the husband imagines himself the monarch of the home4 ,in this country we have carried into the family the idea on which the ,government is based4 ,here husbands and wives are beginning to be equals4 ,the highest test of civilization is the treatment of women and children4 ,by this standard ,america stands first among nations4 ,there is a magnitude1 a scope1 a grandeur1 about this country--an amplitude--that satisfies the heart and the imagination4 ,we have our faults1 we have our virtues1 but our country is the best4 ,no ,american should ever write a line that can be sneeringly quoted by an enemy of the great ,republic4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,cincinnati ,,gazette ,,and ,,catholic ,,telegraph4 99 ,the ,cincinnati ,gazette1 #ahgh4 ,an ,interview4 ,question4 ,colonel1 have you noticed the criticisms made on your lectures by the ,cincinnati ,gazette and the ,catholic ,telegraph8 ,answer4 ,i have read portions of the articles4 ,question4 ,what do you think of them8 ,answer4 ,well1 they are hardly of importance enough to form a distinct subject of thought4 ,question4 ,well1 what do you think of the attempted argument of the ,gazette against your lecture on ,moses8 ,answer4 ,the writer endeavors to show that considering the ignorance prevalent four thousand years ago1 ,god did as well as one could reasonably expect2 that ,god at that time did not have the advantage of telescope1 microscope1 and spectrum1 and that for this reason a few mistakes need not excite our special wonder4 ,he also shows that1 although ,god was in favor of slavery he introduced some reforms2 but whether the reforms were intended to perpetuate slavery or to help the slave is not stated4 ,the article has nothing to do with my position4 ,i am perfectly willing to admit that there is a land called ,egypt2 that the ,jews were once slaves2 that they got away and started a little country of their own4 ,all this may be true without proving that they were miraculously fed in the wilderness1 or that water ran up hill1 or that ,god went into partnership with hornets or snakes4 ,there may have been a man by the name of ,moses without proving that sticks were turned into snakes4 ,a while ago a missionary addressed a ,sunday school4 ,in the course of his remarks he said that he had been to ,mount ,ararat1 and had brought a stone from the mountain4 ,he requested the children to pass in line before him so that they could all get a look at this wonderful stone4 ,after they had all seen it he said3 ,you will as you grow up meet people who will deny that there ever was a flood1 or that ,god saved ,noah and the animals in the ark1 and then you can tell them that you know better1 because you saw a stone from the very mountain where the ark rested4 ,that is precisely the kind of argument used in the ,gazette4 ,the article was written by some one who does not quite believe in the inspiration of the ,scriptures himself1 and were it not for the fear of hell1 would probably say so4 ,i admit that there was such a man as ,mohammed1 such a city as ,mecca1 such a general as ,omar1 but ,i do not admit that ,god made known his will to ,mohammed in any substantial manner4 ,of course the ,gazette would answer all this by saying that ,mohammed did exist1 and that therefore ,god must have talked with him4 ,i admit that there was such a general as ,washington1 but ,i do not admit that ,god kept him from being shot4 ,i admit that there is a portrait of the ,virgin ,mary in ,rome1 but ,i do not admit that it shed tears4 ,i admit that there was such a man as ,moses1 but ,i do not admit that ,god hunted for him in a tavern to kill him4 ,i admit that there was such a priest as ,st4 ,denis1 but ,i do not admit that he carried his head in his hand1 after it was cut off1 and swam the river1 and put his head on again and eventually recovered4 ,i admit that the article appeared in the ,gazette1 but ,i do not admit that it amounted to anything whatever4 ,question4 ,did you notice what the ,catholic ,telegraph said about your lecture being ungrammatical8 ,answer4 ,yes2 ,i saw an extract from it4 ,in the ,catholic ,telegraph occurs the following3 ,the lecture was a failure as brilliant as ,ingersoll's flashes of ungrammatical rhetoric4 ,after making this statement with the hereditary arrogance of a priest1 after finding fault with my ungrammatical rhetoric he then writes the following sentence3 ,it could not boast neither of novelty in argument or of attractive language4 ,after this1 nothing should be noticed that this gentleman says on the subject of grammar4 ,in this connection it may be proper for me to say that nothing is more remarkable than the fact that ,christianity destroys manners4 ,with one exception1 no priest has ever written about me1 so far as ,i know1 except in an arrogant and insolent manner4 ,they seem utterly devoid of the usual amenities of life4 ,every one who differs with them is vile1 ignorant and malicious4 ,but1 after all1 what can you expect of a gentleman who worships a ,god who will damn dimpled babes to an eternity of fire1 simply because they were not baptized4 ,question4 ,this ,catholic writer says that the oldest page of history and the newest page of science are nothing more than commentaries on the ,mosaic ,record4 ,he says the ,cosmogony of ,moses has been believed in1 and has been received as the highest truth by the very brightest names in science4 ,what do you think of that statement8 ,answer4 ,i think it is without the least foundation in fact1 and is substantially like the gentleman's theology1 depending simply upon persistent assertion4 ,i see he quotes ,cuvier as great authority4 ,cuvier denied that the fossil animals were in any way related to the animals now living1 and believed that ,god had frequently destroyed all life upon the earth and then produced other forms4 ,agassiz was the last scientist of any standing who ventured to throw a crumb of comfort to this idea4 ,question4 ,do you mean to say that all the great living scientists regard the ,cosmogony of ,moses as a myth8 ,answer4 ,i do4 ,i say this3 ,all men of science and men of sense look upon the ,mosaic account as a simple myth4 ,humboldt1 who stands in the same relation to science that ,shakespeare did to the drama1 held this opinion4 ,the same is held by the best minds in ,germany1 by ,huxley1 ,tyndall and ,herbert ,spencer in ,england1 by ,john ,w4 ,draper and others in the ,united ,states4 ,whoever agrees with ,moses is some poor frightened orthodox gentleman afraid of losing his soul or his salary1 and as a rule1 both are exceedingly small4 ,question4 ,some people say that you slander the ,bible in saying that ,god went into partnership with hornets1 and declare that there is no such passage in the ,bible4 ,answer4 ,well1 let them read the twenty-eighth verse of the twenty-third chapter of ,exodus1 ,and ,i will send hornets before thee1 which shall drive out the ,hivite1 the ,canaanite and the ,hittite from before thee4 ,question4 ,do you find in lecturing through the country that your ideas are generally received with favor8 ,answer4 ,astonishingly so4 ,there are ten times as many freethinkers as there were five years ago4 ,in five years more we will be in the majority4 ,question4 ,is it true that the churches1 as a general thing1 make strong efforts1 as ,i have seen it stated1 to prevent people from going to hear you8 ,answer4 ,yes2 in many places ministers have advised their congregations to keep away1 telling them ,i was an exceedingly dangerous man4 ,the result has generally been a full house1 and ,i have hardly ever failed to publicly return my thanks to the clergy for acting as my advance agents4 ,question4 ,do you ever meet ,christian people who try to convert you8 ,answer4 ,not often4 ,but ,i do receive a great many anonymous letters1 threatening me with the wrath of ,god1 and calling my attention to the uncertainty of life and the certainty of damnation4 ,these letters are nearly all written in the ordinary ,christian spirit2 that is to say1 full of hatred and impertinence4 ,question4 ,don't you think it remarkable that the ,telegraph1 a ,catholic paper1 should quote with extravagant praise1 an article from such an orthodox sheet as the ,gazette8 ,answer4 ,i do not4 ,all the churches must make common cause4 ,all superstitions lead to ,rome2 all facts lead to science4 ,in a few years all the churches will be united4 ,this will unite all forms of liberalism4 ,when that is done the days of superstition1 of arrogance1 of theology1 will be numbered4 ,it is very laughable to see a ,catholic quoting scientific men in favor of ,moses1 when the same men would have taken great pleasure in swearing that the ,catholic ,church was the worst possible organization4 ,that church should forever hold its peace4 ,wherever it has had authority it has destroyed human liberty4 ,it reduced ,italy to a hand organ1 ,spain to a guitar1 ,ireland to exile1 ,portugal to contempt4 ,catholicism is the upas tree in whose shade the intellect of man has withered4 ,the recollection of the massacre of ,st4 ,bartholomew should make a priest silent1 and the recollection of the same massacre should make a ,protestant careful4 ,i can afford to be maligned by a priest1 when the same party denounces ,garibaldi1 the hero of ,italy1 as a pet tiger to ,victor ,emmanuel4 ,i could not afford to be praised by such a man4 ,i thank him for his abuse4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the point that no one is able to judge of these things unless he is a ,hebrew scholar8 ,answer4 ,i do not think it is necessary to understand ,hebrew to decide as to the probability of springs gushing out of dead bones1 or of the dead getting out of their graves1 or of the probability of ravens keeping a hotel for wandering prophets4 ,i hardly think it is necessary even to be a ,greek scholar to make up my mind as to whether devils actually left a person and took refuge in the bodies of swine4 ,besides1 if the ,bible is not properly translated1 the circulation ought to stop until the corrections are made4 ,i am not accountable if ,god made a revelation to me in a language that he knew ,i never would understand4 ,if he wishes to convey any information to my mind1 he certainly should do it in ,english before he eternally damns me for paying no attention to it4 ,question4 ,are not many of the contradictions in the ,bible owing to mistranslations8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,nearly all of the mistranslations have been made to help out the text4 ,it would be much worse1 much more contradictory had it been correctly translated4 ,nearly all of the mistakes1 as ,mr4 ,weller would say1 have been made for the purposes of harmony4 ,question4 ,how many errors do you suppose there are8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i do not know4 ,it has been reported that the ,american ,bible ,society appointed a committee to hunt for errors1 and the said committee returned about twenty-four to twenty-five thousand4 ,and thereupon the leading men said1 to correct so many errors will destroy the confidence of the common people in the sacredness of the ,scriptures4 ,thereupon it was decided not to correct any4 ,i saw it stated the other day that a very prominent divine charged upon the ,bible ,society that they knew they were publishing a book full of errors4 ,question4 ,what is your opinion of the ,bible anyhow8 ,answer4 ,my first objection is1 it is not true4 ,second4--,it is not inspired4 ,third4--,it upholds human slavery4 ,fourth4--,it sanctions concubinage4 ,fifth4--,it commands the most infamously cruel acts of war1 such as the utter destruction of old men and little children4 ,sixth4--,after killing fathers1 mothers and brothers1 it commands the generals to divide the girls among the soldiers and priests4 ,beyond this1 infamy has never gone4 ,if any ,god made this order ,i am opposed to him4 ,seventh4--,it upholds human sacrifice1 or1 at least1 seems to1 from the following3 ,notwithstanding no devoted thing that a man shall devote unto the ,lord of all that he hath1 both of man and beast1 and of the field of his possession1 shall be sold or redeemed2 every devoted thing is most holy unto the ,lord4 ,none devoted1 which shall be devoted1 of men1 shall be redeemed2 but shall surely be put to death4 7,twenty-seventh ,chapter of ,leviticus1 #bhth and #bith verses47 ,eighth4--,its laws are absurd1 and the punishments cruel and unjust4 ,think of killing a man for making hair oil6 ,think of killing a man for picking up sticks on ,sunday6 ,ninth4--,it upholds polygamy4 ,tenth4--,it knows nothing of astronomy1 nothing of geology1 nothing of any science whatever4 ,eleventh4--,it is opposed to religious liberty1 and teaches a man to kill his own wife if she differs with him on religion2 that is to say1 if he is orthodox4 ,there is no book in the world in which can be found so much that is thoroughly despicable and infamous4 ,of course there are some good passages1 some good sentiments4 ,but they are1 at least in the ,old ,testament1 few and far between4 ,twelfth4--,it treats woman like a beast1 and man like a slave4 ,it fills heaven with tyranny1 and earth with hypocrisy and grief4 ,question4 ,do you think any book inspired8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,i do not think any book is inspired4 ,but1 if it had been the intention of this ,god to give to man an inspired book1 he should have waited until ,shakespeare's time1 and used ,shakespeare as the instrument4 ,then there never would have been any doubt as to the inspiration of the book4 ,there is more beauty1 more goodness1 more intelligence in ,shakespeare than in all the sacred books of this world4 ,question4 ,what do you think as a freethinker of the ,sunday question in ,cincinnati8 ,answer4 ,i think that it is a good thing to have a day of recreation1 a day of rest1 a day of joy1 not a day of dyspepsia and theology4 ,i am in favor of operas and theaters1 music and happiness on ,sunday4 ,i am opposed to all excesses on any day4 ,if the clergy will take half the pains to make the people intelligent that they do to make them superstitious1 the world will soon have advanced so far that it can enjoy itself without excess4 ,the ministers want ,sunday for themselves4 ,they want everybody to come to church because they can go no where else4 ,it is like the story of a man coming home at three o'clock in the morning1 who1 upon being asked by his wife how he could come at such a time of night1 replied1 ,the fact is1 every other place is shut up4 ,the orthodox clergy know that their churches will remain empty if any other place remains open4 ,do not forget to say that ,i mean orthodox churches1 orthodox clergy1 because ,i have great respect for ,unitarians and ,universalists4 ,,an ,,interview ,,on ,,chief ,,justice ,,comegys4 99 ,brooklyn ,eagle1 #ahha4 ,question4 ,i understand1 ,colonel ,ingersoll1 that you have been indicted in the ,state of ,delaware for the crime of blasphemy8 ,answer4 ,well1 not exactly indicted4 ,the ,judge1 who1 ,i believe1 is the ,chief ,justice of the ,state1 dedicated the new court-house at ,wilmington to the service of the ,lord1 by a charge to the grand jury1 in which he almost commanded them to bring in a bill of indictment against me1 for what he was pleased to call the crime of blasphemy4 ,now1 as a matter of fact1 there can be no crime committed by man against ,god1 provided always that a correct definition of the ,deity has been given by the orthodox churches4 ,they say that he is infinite4 ,if so1 he is conditionless4 ,i can injure a man by changing his conditions4 ,take from a man water1 and he perishes of thirst2 take from him air1 and he suffocates2 he may die from too much1 or too little heat4 ,that is because he is a conditioned being4 ,but if ,god is conditionless1 he cannot in any way be affected by what anybody else may do2 and1 consequently1 a sin against ,god is as impossible as a sin against the principle of the lever or inclined plane4 ,this crime called blasphemy was invented by priests for the purpose of defending doctrines not able to take care of themselves4 ,blasphemy is a kind of breastwork behind which hypocrisy has crouched for thousands of years4 ,injustice is the only blasphemy that can be committed1 and justice is the only true worship4 ,man can sin against man1 but not against ,god4 ,but even if man could sin against ,god1 it has always struck me that an infinite being would be entirely able to take care of himself without the assistance of a ,chief ,justice4 ,men have always been violating the rights of men1 under the plea of defending the rights of ,god1 and nothing1 for ages1 was so perfectly delightful to the average ,christian as to gratify his revenge1 and get ,god in his debt at the same time4 ,chief ,justice ,comegys has taken this occasion to lay up for himself what he calls treasures in heaven1 and on the last great day he will probably rely on a certified copy of this charge4 ,the fact that he thinks the ,lord needs help satisfies me that in that particular neighborhood ,i am a little ahead4 ,the fact is1 ,i never delivered but one lecture in ,delaware4 ,that lecture1 however1 had been preceded by a ,republican stump speech2 and1 to tell you the truth1 ,i imagine that the stump speech is what a ,yankee would call the heft of the offence4 ,it is really hard for me to tell whether ,i have blasphemed the ,deity or the ,democracy4 ,of course ,i have no personal feeling whatever against the ,judge4 ,in fact he has done me a favor4 ,he has called the attention of the civilized world to certain barbarian laws that disfigure and disgrace the statute books of most of the ,states4 ,these laws were passed when our honest ancestors were burning witches1 trading ,quaker children to the ,barbadoes for rum and molasses1 branding people upon the forehead1 boring their tongues with hot irons1 putting one another in the pillory1 and1 generally1 in the name of ,god1 making their neighbors as uncomfortable as possible4 ,we have outgrown these laws without repealing them4 ,they are1 as a matter of fact1 in most communities actually dead2 but in some of the ,states1 like ,delaware1 ,i suppose they could be enforced1 though there might be trouble in selecting twelve men1 even in ,delaware1 without getting one man broad enough1 sensible enough1 and honest enough1 to do justice4 ,i hardly think it would be possible in any ,state to select a jury in the ordinary way that would convict any person charged with what is commonly known as blasphemy4 ,all the so-called ,christian churches have accused each other of being blasphemers1 in turn4 ,the ,catholics denounced the ,presbyterians as blasphemers1 the ,presbyterians denounced the ,baptists2 the ,baptists1 the ,presbyterians1 and the ,catholics all united in denouncing the ,quakers1 and they all together denounced the ,unitarians--called them blasphemers because they did not acknowledge the divinity of ,jesus ,christ--the ,unitarians only insisting that three infinite beings were not necessary1 that one infinite being could do all the business1 and that the other two were absolutely useless4 ,this was called blasphemy4 ,then all the churches united to call the ,universalists blasphemers4 ,i can remember when a ,uni-versalist was regarded with a thousand times more horror than an infidel is to-day4 ,there is this strange thing about the history of theology--nobody has ever been charged with blasphemy who thought ,god bad4 ,for instance1 it never would have excited any theological hatred if a man had insisted that ,god would finally damn everybody4 ,nearly all heresy has consisted in making ,god better than the majority in the churches thought him to be4 ,the orthodox ,christian never will forgive the ,univer-salist for saying that ,god is too good to damn anybody eternally4 ,now1 all these sects have charged each other with blasphemy1 without anyone of them knowing really what blasphemy is4 ,i suppose they have occasionally been honest1 because they have mostly been ignorant4 ,it is said that ,torquemada used to shed tears over the agonies of his victims and that he recommended slow burning1 not because he wished to inflict pain1 but because he really desired to give the gentleman or lady he was burning a chance to repent of his or her sins1 and make his or her peace with ,god previous to becoming a cinder4 ,the root1 foundation1 germ and cause of nearly all religious persecution is the idea that some certain belief is necessary to salvation4 ,if orthodox ,christians are right in this idea1 then persecution of all heretics and infidels is a duty4 ,if ,i have the right to defend my body from attack1 surely ,i should have a like right to defend my soul4 ,under our laws ,i could kill any man who was endeavoring1 for example1 to take the life of my child4 ,how much more would ,i be justified in killing any wretch who was endeavoring to convince my child of the truth of a doctrine which1 if believed1 would result in the eternal damnation of that child's soul8 ,if the ,christian religion1 as it is commonly understood1 is true1 no infidel should be allowed to live2 every heretic should be hunted from the wide world as you would hunt a wild beast4 ,they should not be allowed to speak1 they should not be allowed to poison the minds of women and children2 in other words1 they should not be allowed to empty heaven and fill hell4 ,the reason ,i have liberty in this country is because the ,christians of this country do not believe their doctrine4 ,the passage from the ,bible1 ,go ye into all the world and preach the ,gospel to every creature1 coupled with the assurance that1 ,whosoever believeth and is baptized shall be saved1 and whoso believeth not shall be damned1 is the foundation of most religious persecution4 ,every word in that passage has been fire and fagot1 whip and sword1 chain and dungeon4 ,that one passage has probably caused more agony among men1 women and children1 than all the passages of all other books that were ever printed4 ,now1 this passage was not in the book of ,mark when originally written1 but was put there many years after the gentleman who evolved the book of ,mark from his inner consciousness1 had passed away4 ,it was put there by the church--that is to say1 by hypocrisy and priestly craft1 to bind the consciences of men and force them to come under ecclesiastical and spiritual power2 and that passage has been received and believed1 and been made binding by law in most countries ever since4 ,what would you think of a law compelling a man to admire ,shakespeare1 or calling it blasphemy to laugh at ,hamlet8 ,why is not a statute necessary to uphold the reputation of ,raphael or of ,michael ,angelo8 ,is it possible that ,god cannot write a book good enough and great enough and grand enough not to excite the laughter of his children8 ,is it possible that he is compelled to have his literary reputation supported by the ,state of ,delaware8 ,there is another very strange thing about this business4 ,admitting that the ,bible is the work of ,god1 it is not any more his work than are the sun1 the moon and the stars or the earth1 and if for disbelieving this ,bible we are to be damned forever1 we ought to be equally damned for a mistake in geology or astronomy4 ,the idea of allowing a man to go to heaven who swears that the earth is flat1 and damning a fellow who thinks it is round1 but who-has his honest doubts about ,joshua1 seems to me to be perfectly absurd4 ,it seems to me that in this view of it1 it is just as necessary to be right on the subject of the equator as on the doctrine of infant baptism4 ,question4 ,what was in your judgment the motive of ,judge ,comegys8 ,is he a personal enemy of yours8 ,have you ever met him8 ,have you any idea what reason he had for attacking you8 ,answer4 ,i do not know the gentleman1 personally4 ,outside of the political reason ,i have intimated1 ,i do not know why he attacked me4 ,i once delivered a lecture entitled ,what must we do to be ,saved8 in the city of ,wilmington1 and in that lecture ,i proceeded to show1 or at least tried to show1 that ,matthew1 ,mark and ,luke knew nothing about ,christianity1 as it is understood in ,delaware2 and ,i also endeavored to show that all men have an equal right to think1 and that a man is only under obligations to be honest with himself1 and with all men1 and that he is not accountable for the amount of mind that he has been endowed with--otherwise it might be ,judge ,comegys himself would be damned--but that he is only accountable for the use he makes of what little mind he has received4 ,i held that the safest thing for every man was to be absolutely honest1 and to express his honest thought4 ,after the delivery of this lecture various ministers in ,wilmington began replying1 and after the preaching of twenty or thirty sermons1 not one of which1 considered as a reply1 was a success1 ,i presume it occurred to these ministers that the shortest and easiest way would be to have me indicted and imprisoned4 ,in this ,i entirely agree with them4 ,it is the old and time-honored way4 ,i believe it is1 as it always has been1 easier to kill two infidels than to answer one2 and if ,christianity expects to stem the tide that is now slowly rising over the intellectual world1 it must be done by brute force1 and by brute force alone4 ,and it must be done pretty soon1 or they will not have the brute force4 ,it is doubtful if they have a majority of the civilized world on their side to-day4 ,no heretic ever would have been burned if he could have been answered4 ,no theologian ever called for the help of the law until his logic gave out4 ,i suppose ,judge ,comegys to be a ,presbyterian4 ,where did he get his right to be a ,presbyterian8 ,where did he get his right to decide which creed is the correct one8 ,how did he dare to pit his little brain against the word of ,god8 ,he may say that his father was a ,presbyterian4 ,but what was his grandfather8 ,if he will only go back far enough he will1 in all probability1 find that his ancestors were ,catholics1 and if he will go back a little farther still1 that they were barbarians2 that at one time they were naked1 and had snakes tattooed on their bodies4 ,what right had they to change8 ,does he not perceive that had the savages passed the same kind of laws that now exist in ,delaware1 they could have prevented any change in belief8 ,they would have had a whipping-post1 too1 and they would have said3 ,any gentleman found without snakes tattooed upon his body shall be held guilty of blasphemy2 and all the ancestors of this ,judge1 and of these ministers1 would have said1 ,amen6 ,what right had the first ,presbyterian to be a ,presbyterian8 ,he must have been a blasphemer first4 ,a small dose of pillory might have changed his religion4 ,does this ,judge think that ,delaware is incapable of any improvement in a religious point of view8 ,does he think that the ,presbyterians of ,delaware are not only the best now1 but that they will forever be the best that ,god can make8 ,is there to be no advancement8 ,has there been no advancement8 ,are the pillory and the whipping-post to be used to prevent an excess of thought in the county of ,new ,castle8 ,has the county ever been troubled that way8 ,has this ,judge ever had symptoms of any such disease8 ,now1 ,i want it understood that ,i like this ,judge1 and my principal reason for liking him is that he is the last of his race4 ,he will be so inundated with the ridicule of mankind that no other ,chief ,justice in ,delaware1 or anywhere else1 will ever follow his illustrious example4 ,the next ,judge will say3 ,so far as ,i am concerned1 the ,lord may attend to his own business1 and deal with infidels as he may see proper4 ,thus great good has been accomplished by this ,judge1 which shows1 as ,burns puts it1 that a pot can be boiled1 even if the devil tries to prevent it4 ,question4 ,how will this action of ,delaware1 in your opinion1 affect the other ,states8 ,answer4 ,probably a few other ,states needed an example exactly of this kind4 ,new ,jersey1 in all probability1 will say3 ,delaware is perfectly ridiculous1 and yet1 had ,delaware waited awhile1 ,new ,jersey might have done the same thing4 ,maryland will exclaim3 ,did you ever see such a fool6 ,and yet ,i was threatened in that ,state4 ,the average ,american citizen1 taking into consideration the fact that we are blest1 or cursed1 with about one hundred thousand preachers1 and that these preachers preach on the average one hundred thousand sermons a week--some of which are heard clear through--will unquestionably hold that a man who happens to differ with all these parsons1 ought to have and shall have the privilege of expressing his mind2 and that the one hundred thousand clergymen ought to be able to put down the one man who happens to disagree with them1 without calling on the army or navy to do it1 especially when it is taken into consideration that an infinite ,god is already on their side4 ,under these circumstances1 the average ,american will say3 ,let him talk1 and let the hundred thousand preachers answer him to their hearts' content4 ,so that in my judgment the result of the action of ,delaware will be3 ,first1 to liberalize all other ,states1 and second1 finally to liberalize ,delaware itself4 ,in many of the ,states they have the same idiotic kind of laws as those found in ,delaware--with the exception of those blessed institutions for the spread of the ,gospel1 known as the pillory and the whipping-post4 ,there is a law in ,maine by which a man can be put into the penitentiary for denying the providence of ,god1 and the day of judgment4 ,there are similar laws in most of the ,new ,england ,states4 ,one can be imprisoned in ,maryland for a like offence4 ,in ,north ,carolina no man can hold office that has not a certain religious belief2 and so in several other of the ,southern ,states4 ,in half the ,states of this ,union1 if my wife and children should be murdered before my eyes1 ,i would not be allowed in a court of justice to tell who the murderer was4 ,you see that1 for hundreds of years1 ,christianity has endeavored to put the brand of infamy on every intellectual brow4 ,question4 ,i see that one objection to your lectures urged by ,judge ,comegys on the grand jury is1 that they tend to a breach of the peace--to riot and bloodshed4 ,answer4 ,yes2 ,judge ,comegys seems to be afraid that people who love their enemies will mob their friends4 ,he is afraid that those disciples who1 when smitten on one cheek turn the other to be smitten also1 will get up a riot4 ,he seems to imagine that good ,christians feel called upon to violate the commands of the ,lord in defence of the ,lord's reputation4 ,if ,christianity produces people who cannot hear their doctrines discussed without raising mobs1 and shedding blood1 the sooner it is stopped being preached the better4 ,there is not the slightest danger of any infidel attacking a ,christian for ,his belief1 and there never will be an infidel mob for such a purpose4 ,christians can teach and preach their views to their hearts' content4 ,they can send all unbelievers to an eternal hell1 if it gives them the least pleasure1 and they may bang their ,bibles as long as their fists last1 but no infidel will be in danger of raising a riot to stop them1 or put them down by brute force1 or even by an appeal to the law1 and ,i would advise ,judge ,comegys1 if he wishes to compliment ,christianity1 to change his language and say that he feared a breach of the peace might be committed by the infidels--not by the ,christians4 ,he may possibly have thought that it was my intention to attack his ,state4 ,but ,i can assure him1 that if ever ,i start a warfare of that kind1 ,i shall take some ,state of my size4 ,there is no glory to be won in wringing the neck of a ,blue ,hen6 ,question4 ,i should judge1 ,colonel1 that you are prejudiced against the ,state of ,delaware8 ,answer4 ,not by any means4 ,oh1 no6 ,i know a great many splendid people in ,delaware1 and since ,i have known more of their surroundings1 my admiration for them has increased4 ,they are1 on the whole1 a very good people in that ,state4 ,i heard a story the other day3 ,an old fellow in ,delaware has been for the last twenty or thirty years gathering peaches there in their season--a kind of peach tramp4 ,one day last fall1 just as the season closed1 he was leaning sadly against a tree1 ,boys6 said he1 ,i'd like to come back to ,delaware a hundred years from now4 ,the boys asked1 ,what for8 ,the old fellow replied3 ,just to see how damned little they'd get the baskets by that time4 ,and it occurred to me that people who insist that twenty-two quarts make a bushel1 should be as quiet as possible on the subject of blasphemy4 ,,an ,,interview ,,on ,,chief ,,justice ,,comegys4 99 ,chicago ,times1 ,feb4 #ad1 #ahha4 ,question4 ,have you read ,chief ,justice ,comegys' compliments to you before the ,delaware grand jury8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i have read his charge1 in which he relies upon the law passed in #agdj4 ,after reading his charge it seemed to me as though he had died about the date of the law1 had risen from the dead1 and had gone right on where he had left off4 ,i presume he is a good man1 but compared with other men1 is something like his ,state when compared with other ,states4 ,a great many people will probably regard the charge of ,judge ,comegys as unchristian1 but ,i do not4 ,i consider that the law of ,delaware is in exact accord with the ,bible1 and that the pillory1 the whip-ping-post1 and the suppression of free speech are the natural fruit of the ,old and ,new ,testament4 ,delaware is right4 ,christianity can not succeed1 can not exist1 without the protection of law4 ,take from orthodox ,christianity the protection of law1 and all church property would be taxed like other property4 ,the ,sabbath would be no longer a day devoted to superstition4 ,everyone could express his honest thought upon every possible subject4 ,everyone1 notwithstanding his belief1 could testify in a court of justice4 ,in other words1 honesty would be on an equality with hypocrisy4 ,science would stand on a level1 so far as the law is concerned1 with superstition4 ,whenever this happens the end of orthodox ,christianity will be near4 ,by ,christianity ,i do not mean charity1 mercy1 kindness1 forgiveness4 ,i mean no natural virtue1 because all the natural virtues existed and had been practiced by hundreds and thousands of millions before ,christ was born4 ,there certainly were some good men even in the days of ,christ in ,jerusalem1 before his death4 ,by ,christianity ,i mean the ideas of redemption1 atonement1 a good man dying for a bad man1 and the bad man getting a receipt in full4 ,by ,christianity ,i mean that system that insists that in the next world a few will be forever happy1 while the many will be eternally miserable4 ,christianity1 as ,i have explained it1 must be protected1 guarded1 and sustained by law4 ,it was founded by the sword that is to say1 by physical force1--and must be preserved by like means4 ,in many of the ,states of the ,union an infidel is not allowed to testify4 ,in the ,state of ,delaware1 if ,alexander von ,humboldt were living1 he could not be a witness1 although he had more brains than the ,state of ,delaware has ever produced1 or is likely to produce as long as the laws of #agdj remain in force4 ,such men as ,huxley1 ,tyndall and ,haeckel could be fined and imprisoned in the ,state of ,delaware1 and1 in fact1 in many ,states of this ,union4 ,christianity1 in order to defend itself1 puts the brand of infamy on the brow of honesty4 ,christianity marks with a letter ,c1 standing for convict every brain that is great enough to discover the frauds4 ,i have no doubt that ,judge ,comegys is a good and sincere ,christian4 ,i believe that he1 in his charge1 gives an exact reflection of the ,jewish ,jehovah4 ,i believe that every word he said was in exact accord with the spirit of orthodox ,christianity4 ,against this man personally ,i have nothing to say4 ,i know nothing of his character except as ,i gather it from this charge1 and after reading the charge ,i am forced simply to say1 ,judge ,comegys is a ,christian4 ,it seems1 however1 that the grand jury dared to take no action1 notwithstanding they had been counseled to do so by the ,judge4 ,although the ,judge had quoted to them the words of ,george ,i4 of blessed memory2 although he had quoted to them the words of ,lord ,mansfield1 who became a ,judge simply because of his hatred of the ,english colonists1 simply because he despised liberty in the new world2 notwithstanding the fact that ,i could have been punished with insult1 with imprisonment1 and with stripes1 and with every form of degradation2 notwithstanding that only a few years ago ,i could have been branded upon the forehead1 bored through the tongue1 maimed and disfigured1 still1 such has been the advance even in the ,state of ,delaware1 owing1 it may be1 in great part to the one lecture delivered by me1 that the grand jury absolutely refused to indict me4 ,the grand jury satisfied themselves and their consciences simply by making a report in which they declared that my lecture had no parallel in the habits of respectable vagabondism that ,i was an arch-blasphemer and reviler of ,god and religion1 and recommended that should ,i ever attempt to lecture again ,i should be taught that in ,delaware blasphemy is a crime punishable by fine and imprisonment4 ,i have no doubt that every member of the grand jury signing this report was entirely honest2 that he acted in exact accord with what he understood to be the demand of the ,christian religion4 ,i must admit that for ,christians1 the report is exceedingly mild and gentle4 ,i have now in the house1 letters that passed between certain bishops in the fifteenth century1 in which they discussed the propriety of cutting out the tongues of heretics before they were burned4 ,some of the bishops were in favor of and some against it4 ,one argument for cutting out their tongues which seemed to have settled the question was1 that unless the tongues of heretics were cut out they might scandalize the gentlemen who were burning them1 by blasphemous remarks during the fire4 ,i would commend these letters to ,judge ,comegys and the members of the grand jury4 ,i want it distinctly understood that ,i have nothing against ,judge ,comegys or the grand jury4 ,they act as 'most anybody would1 raised in ,delaware1 in the shadow of the whipping-post and the pillory4 ,we must remember that ,delaware was a slave ,state2 that the ,bible became extremely dear to the people because it upheld that peculiar institution4 ,we must remember that the ,bible was the block on which mother and child stood for sale when they were separated by the ,christians of ,delaware4 ,the ,bible was regarded as the title-pages to slavery1 and as the book of all books that gave the right to masters to whip mothers and to sell children4 ,there are many offences now for which the punishment is whipping and standing in the pillory2 where persons are convicted of certain crimes and sent to the penitentiary1 and upon being discharged from the penitentiary are furnished by the ,state with a dark jacket plainly marked on the back with a large ,roman ,c1 the letter to be of a light color4 ,this they are to wear for six months after being discharged1 and if they are found at any time without the dark jacket and the illuminated ,c they are to be punished with twenty lashes upon the bare back4 ,the object1 ,i presume1 of this law1 is to drive from the ,state all the discharged convicts for the benefit of ,new ,jersey1 ,pennsylvania and ,maryland--that is to say1 other ,christian communities4 ,a cruel people make cruel laws4 ,the objection ,i have to the whipping-post is that it is a punishment which cannot be inflicted by a gentleman4 ,the person who administers the punishment must1 of necessity1 be fully as degraded as the person who receives it4 ,i am opposed to any kind of punishment that cannot be administered by a gentleman4 ,i am opposed to corporal punishment everywhere4 ,it should be taken from the asylums and penitentiaries1 and any man who would apply the lash to the naked back of another is beneath the contempt of honest people4 ,question4 ,have you seen that ,henry ,bergh has introduced in the ,new ,york ,legislature a bill providing for whipping as a punishment for wife-beating8 ,answer4 ,the objection ,i have mentioned is fatal to ,mr4 ,bergh's bill4 ,he will be able to get persons to beat wife-beaters1 who1 under the same circumstances1 would be wife-beaters themselves4 ,if they are not wife-beaters when they commence the business of beating others1 they soon will be4 ,i think that wife-beating in great cities could be stopped by putting all the wife-beaters at work at some government employment1 the value of the work1 however1 to go to the wives and children4 ,the trouble now is that most of the wife-beating is among the extremely poor1 so that the wife by informing against her husband1 takes the last crust out of her own mouth4 ,if you substitute whipping or flogging for the prison here1 you will in the first place prevent thousands of wives from informing1 and in many cases1 where the wife would inform1 she would afterward be murdered by the flogged brute4 ,this brute would naturally resort to the same means to reform his wife that the ,state had resorted to for the purpose of reforming him4 ,flogging would beget flogging4 ,mr4 ,bergh is a man of great kindness of heart4 ,when he reads that a wife has been beaten1 he says the husband deserves to be beaten himself4 ,but if ,mr4 ,bergh was to be the executioner1 ,i imagine you could not prove by the back of the man that the punishment had been inflicted4 ,another good remedy for wife-beating is the abolition of the ,catholic ,church4 ,we should also do away with the idea that a marriage is a sacrament1 and that there is any ,god who is rendered happy by seeing a husband and wife live together1 although the husband gets most of his earthly enjoyment from whipping his wife4 ,no woman should live with a man a moment after he has struck her4 ,just as the idea of liberty enlarges1 confidence in the whip and fist1 in the kick and blow1 will diminish4 ,delaware occupies toward freethinkers precisely the same position that a wife-beater does toward the wife4 ,delaware knows that there are no reasons sufficient to uphold ,christianity1 consequently these reasons are supplemented with the pillory and the whipping-post4 ,the whipping-post is considered one of ,god's arguments1 and the pillory is a kind of moral suasion1 the use of which fills heaven with a kind of holy and serene delight4 ,i am opposed to the religion of brute force1 but all these frightful things have grown principally out of a belief in eternal punishment and out of the further idea that a certain belief is necessary to avoid eternal pain4 ,if ,christianity is right1 ,delaware is right4 ,if ,god will damn every body forever simply for being intellectually honest1 surely he ought to allow the good people of ,delaware to imprison the same gentleman for two months4 ,of course there are thousands and thousands of good people in ,delaware1 people who have been in other ,states1 people who have listened to ,republican speeches1 people who have read the works of scientists1 who hold the laws of #agdj in utter abhorrence2 people who pity ,judge ,comegys and who have a kind of sympathy for the grand jury4 ,you will see that at the last election ,delaware lacked only six or seven hundred of being a civilized ,state1 and probably in #ahhd will stand redeemed and regenerated1 with the laws of #agdj expunged from the statute book4 ,delaware has not had the best of opportunities4 ,you must remember that it is next to ,new ,jersey1 which is quite an obstacle in the path of progress4 ,it is just beyond ,maryland1 which is another obstacle4 ,i heard the other day that ,god originally made oysters with legs1 and afterward took them off1 knowing that the people of ,delaware would starve to death before they would run to catch anything4 ,judge ,comegys is the last judge who will make such a charge in the ,united ,states4 ,he has immortalized himself as the last mile-stone on that road4 ,he is the last of his race4 ,no more can be born4 ,outside of this he probably was a very clever man1 and it may be1 he does not believe a word he utters4 ,the probability is that he has underestimated the intelligence of the people of ,delaware4 ,i am afraid to think that he is entirely honest1 for fear that ,i may underestimate him intellectually1 and overestimate him morally4 ,nothing could tempt me to do this man injustice1 though ,i could hardly add to the injury he has done himself4 ,he has called attention to laws that ought to be repealed1 and to lectures that ought to be repeated4 ,i feel in my heart that he has done me a great service1 second only to that for which ,i am indebted to the grand jury4 ,had the ,judge known me personally he probably would have said nothing4 ,should ,i have the misfortune to be arrested in his ,state and sentenced to two months of solitary confinement1 the ,judge having become acquainted with me during the trial1 would probably insist on spending most of his time in my cell4 ,at the end of the two months he would1 ,i think1 lay himself liable to the charge of blasphemy1 providing he had honor enough to express his honest thought4 ,after all1 it is all a question of honesty4 ,every man is right4 ,i cannot convince myself there is any ,god who will ever damn a man for having been honest4 ,this gives me a certain hope for the ,judge and the grand jury4 ,for two or three days ,i have been thinking what joy there must have been in heaven when ,jehovah heard that ,delaware was on his side1 and remarked to the angels in the language of the late ,adjt4 ,gen4 ,thomas3 ,the eyes of all ,delaware are upon you4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,rev4 ,,drs4 ,,thomas ,,and ,,lorimer4 99 ,col4 ,ingersoll filled ,mc,vickor's ,theatre again yesterday afternoon1 when he answered the question ,what ,must ,we ,do to ,be ,saved8 ,but before doing so he replied to the recent criticisms of city clergymen on his ,talmagian ,theology-- ,chicago ,tribune1 ,nov4 #bg1 #ahhb4 ,ladies and ,gentlemen3 ,,wherever ,i lecture1 as a rule1 some ministers think it their duty to reply for the purpose of showing either that ,i am unfair1 or that ,i am blasphemous1 or that ,i laugh4 ,and laughing has always been considered by theologians as a crime4 ,ministers have always said you will have no respect for our ideas unless you are solemn4 ,solemnity is a condition precedent to believing anything without evidence4 ,and if you can only get a man solemn enough1 awed enough1 he will believe anything4 ,in this city the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,thomas has made a few remarks1 and ,i may say by way of preface that ,i have always held him in the highest esteem4 ,he struggles1 according to his statement1 with the problem of my sincerity1 and he about half concludes that ,i am not sincere4 ,there is a little of the minister left in ,dr4 ,thomas4 ,ministers always account for a difference of opinion by attacking the motive4 ,now1 to him1 it makes no difference whether ,i am sincere or insincere2 the question is1 ,can my argument be answered8 ,suppose you could prove that the maker of the multiplication table held mathematics in contempt2 what of it8 ,ten times ten would be a hundred still4 ,my sincerity has nothing to do with the force of the argument--not the slightest4 ,but this gentleman begins to suspect that ,i am doing what ,i do for the sake of applause4 ,what a commentary on the ,christian religion1 that1 after they have been preaching it for sixteen or eighteen hundred years1 a man attacks it for the sake of popularity--a man attacks it for the purpose of winning applause6 ,when ,i commenced to speak upon this subject there was no appreciable applause2 most of my fellow-citizens differed with me2 and ,i was denounced as though ,i had been a wild beast4 ,but ,i have lived to see the majority of the men and women of intellect in the ,united ,states on my side2 ,i have lived to see the church deny her creed2 ,i have lived to see ministers apologize in public for what they preached2 and a great and glorious work is going on until1 in a little while1 you will not find one of them1 unless it is some old petrifaction of the red-stone period1 who will admit that he ever believed in the ,trinity1 in the ,atonement1 or in the doctrine of ,eternal ,agony4 ,the religion preached in the pulpits does not satisfy the intellect of ,america1 and if ,dr4 ,thomas wishes to know why people go to hear infidelity it is this3 ,because they are not satisfied with the orthodox ,christianity of the day4 ,that is the reason4 ,they are beginning to hold it in contempt4 ,but this gentleman imagines that ,i am insincere because ,i attacked certain doctrines of the ,bible4 ,i attacked the doctrine of eternal pain4 ,i hold it in infinite and utter abhorrence4 ,and if there be a ,god in this universe who made a hell2 if there be a ,god in this universe who denies to any human being the right of reformation1 then that ,god is not good1 that ,god is not just1 and the future of man is infinitely dark4 ,i despise that doctrine1 and ,i have done what little ,i could to get that horror from the cradle1 that horror from the hearts of mothers1 that horror from the hearts of husbands and fathers1 and sons1 and brothers1 and sisters4 ,it is a doctrine that turns to ashes all the humanities of life and all the hopes of mankind4 ,i despise it4 ,and the gentleman also charges that ,i am wanting in reverence4 ,i admit here to-day that ,i have no reverence for a falsehood4 ,i do not care how old it is1 and ,i do not care who told it1 whether the men were inspired or not4 ,i have no reverence for what ,i believe to be false1 and in determining what is false ,i go by my reason4 ,and whenever another man gives me an argument ,i examine it4 ,if it is good ,i follow it4 ,if it is bad ,i throw it away4 ,i have no reverence for any book that upholds human slavery4 ,i despise such a book4 ,i have no reverence for any book that upholds or palliates the infamous institution of polygamy4 ,i have no reverence for any book that tells a husband to kill his wife if she differs with him upon the subject of religion4 ,i have no reverence for any book that defends wars of conquest and extermination4 ,i have no reverence for a ,god that orders his legions to slay the old and helpless1 and to whet the edge of the sword with the blood of mothers and babes4 ,i have no reverence for such a book2 neither have ,i any reverence for the author of that book4 ,no matter whether he be ,god or man1 ,i have no reverence4 ,i have no reverence for the miracles of the ,bible4 ,i have no reverence for the story that ,god allowed bears to tear children in pieces4 ,i have no reverence for the miraculous1 but ,i have reverence for the truth1 for justice1 for charity1 for humanity1 for intellectual liberty1 and for human progress4 ,i have the right to do my own thinking4 ,i am going to do it4 ,i have never met any minister that ,i thought had brain enough to think for himself and for me too4 ,i do my own4 ,i have no reverence for barbarism1 no matter how ancient it may be1 and no reverence for the savagery of the ,old ,testament2 no reverence for the malice of the ,new4 ,and let me tell you here to-night that the ,old ,testament is a thousand times better than the ,new4 ,the ,old ,testament threatened no vengeance beyond the grave4 ,god was satisfied when his enemy was8 dead4 ,it was reserved for the ,new ,testament--it was reserved for universal benevolence--to rend the veil between time and eternity and fix the horrified gaze of man upon the abyss of hell4 ,the ,new ,testament is just as much worse than the ,old1 as hell is worse than sleep4 ,and yet it is the fashion to say that the ,old ,testament is bad and that the ,new ,testament is good4 ,i have no reverence for any book that teaches a doctrine contrary to my reason2 no reverence for any book that teaches a doctrine contrary to my heart2 and1 no matter how old it is1 no matter how many have believed it1 no matter how many have died on account of it1 no matter how many live for it1 ,i have no reverence for that book1 and ,i am glad of it4 ,dr4 ,thomas seems to think that ,i should approach these things with infinite care1 that ,i should not attack slavery1 or polygamy1 or religious persecution1 but that ,i should mildly suggest--mildly1--should not hurt anybody's feelings4 ,when ,i go to church the ministers tell me ,i am going to hell4 ,when ,i meet one ,i tell him1 ,there is no hell1 and he says3 ,what do you want to hurt our feelings for8 ,he wishes me mildly to suggest that the sun and moon did not stop1 that may be the bears only frightened the children1 and that1 after all1 ,lot's wife was only scared4 ,why1 there was a minister in this city of ,chicago who imagined that his congregation were progressive1 and1 in his pulpit1 he said that he did not believe the story of ,lot's wife--said that he did not think that any sensible man would believe that a woman was changed into salt2 and they tried him1 and the congregation thought he was entirely too fresh4 ,and finally he went before that church and admitted that he was mistaken1 and owned up to the chloride of sodium1 and said3 ,i not only take the ,bible cum grano salis1 but with a whole barrelful4 ,my doctrine is1 if you do not believe a thing1 say so1 say so2 no need of going away around the bush and suggesting may be1 perhaps1 possibly1 peradventure4 ,that is the ministerial way1 but ,i do not like it4 ,i am also charged with making an onslaught upon the good as well as the bad4 ,i say here today that never in my life have ,i said one word against honesty1 one word against liberty1 one word against charity1 one word against any institution that is good4 ,i attack the bad1 not the good1 and ,i would like to have some minister point out in some lecture or speech that ,i have delivered1 one word against the good1 against the highest happiness of the human race4 ,i have said all ,i was able to say in favor of justice1 in favor of liberty1 in favor of home1 in favor of wife and children1 in favor of progress1 and in favor of universal kindness2 but not one word in favor of the bad1 and ,i never expect to4 ,dr4 ,thomas also attacks my statement that the brain thinks in spite of us4 ,doesn't it8 ,can any man tell what he is going to think to-morrow8 ,you see1 you hear1 you taste1 you feel1 you smell--these are the avenues by which ,nature approaches the brain1 the consequence of this is thought1 and you cannot by any possibility help thinking4 ,neither can you determine what you will think4 ,these impressions are made independently of your will4 ,but1 says this reverend doctor1 ,whence comes this conception of space8 ,i can tell him4 ,there is such a thing as matter4 ,we conceive that matter occupies room--space--and1 in our minds1 space is simply the opposite of matter4 ,and it comes naturally--not supernaturally4 ,does the gentleman contend there had to be a revelation of ,god for us to conceive of a place where there is nothing8 ,we know there is something4 ,we can think of the opposite of something1 and therefore we say space4 ,but1 says this gentleman1 ,where do we get the idea of good and bad8 ,i can tell him2 no trouble about that4 ,every man has the capacity to enjoy and the capacity to suffer--every man4 ,whenever a man enjoys himself he calls that good2 whenever he suffers he calls that bad4 ,the animals that are useful to him he calls good2 the poisonous1 the hurtful1 he calls bad4 ,the vegetables that he can eat and use he calls good2 those that are of no use except to choke the growth of the good ones1 he calls bad4 ,when the sun shines1 when everything in nature is out that ministers to him1 he says this is good2 when the storm comes and blows down his hut1 when the frost comes and lays down his crop1 he says this is bad4 ,and all phenomena that affect men well he calls good2 all that affect him ill he calls bad4 ,now1 then1 the foundation of the idea of right and wrong is the effect in nature that we are capable of enjoying or capable of suffering4 ,that is the foundation of conscience2 and if man could not suffer1 if man could not enjoy1 we never would have dreamed of the word conscience2 and the words right and wrong never could have passed human lips4 ,there are no supernatural fields4 ,we get our ideas from experience--some of them from our forefathers1 many from experience4 ,a man works--food does not come of itself4 ,a man works to raise it1 and1 after he has worked in the sun and heat1 do you think it is necessary that he should have a revelation from heaven before he thinks that he has a better right to it than the man who did not work8 ,and yet1 according to these gentlemen1 we never would have known it was wrong to steal had not the ,ten ,commandments been given from ,mount ,sinai4 ,you go into a savage country where they never heard of the ,bible1 and let a man hunt all day for game1 and finally get one little bird1 and the hungry man that staid at home endeavor to take it from him1 and you would see whether he would need a direct revelation from ,god in order to make up his mind who had the better right to that bird4 ,our ideas of right and wrong are born of our surroundings1 and if a man will think for a moment he will see it4 ,but they deny that the mind thinks in spite of us4 ,i heard a story of a man who said1 ,no man can think of one thing a minute1 he will think of something else4 ,well1 there was a little ,methodist preacher4 ,he said he could think of a thing a minute--that he could say the ,lord's ,prayer and never think of another thing4 ,well1 said the man1 ,i'll tell you what ,i will do4 ,there is the best road-horse in the country4 ,i will give you that horse if you will just say the ,lord's ,prayer1 and not think of another thing4 ,and the little fellow shut up his eyes3 ,our ,father which art in ,heaven1 ,hallowed be thy name4 ,thy ,kingdom come1 ,thy will be done--,i suppose you will throw in the saddle and bridle8 ,i have always insisted1 and ,i shall always insist1 until ,i find some fact in ,nature correcting the statement1 that ,nature sows the seeds of thought--that every brain is a kind of field where the seeds are sown1 and that some are very poor1 and some are very barren1 and some are very rich4 ,that is my opinion4 ,again he asks3 ,if one is not responsible for his thought1 why is any one blamed for thinking as he does8 ,it is not a question of blame1 it is a question of who is right--a question of who is wrong4 ,admit that every one thinks exactly as he must1 that does not show that his thought is right2 that does not show that his thought is the highest thought4 ,admit that every piece of land in the world produces what it must2 that does not prove that the land covered with barren rocks and a little moss is just as good as the land covered with wheat or corn2 neither does it prove that the mind has to act as the wheat or the corn2 neither does it prove that the land had any choice as to what it would produce4 ,i hold men responsible not for their thoughts2 ,i hold men responsible for their actions4 ,and ,i have said a thousand times3 ,physical liberty is this--the right to do anything that does not interfere with another--in other words1 to act right2 and intellectual liberty is this--the right to think right1 and the right to think wrong1 provided you do your best to think right4 ,i have always said it1 and ,i expect to say it always4 ,the reverend gentleman is also afflicted with the gradual theory4 ,i believe in that theory4 ,if you will leave out inspiration1 if you will leave out the direct interference of an infinite ,god1 the gradual theory is right4 ,it is a theory of evolution4 ,i admit that astronomy has been born of astrology1 that chemistry came from the black art2 and ,i also contend that religion will be lost in science4 ,i believe in evolution4 ,i believe in the budding of the seed1 the shining of the sun1 the dropping of the rain2 ,i believe in the spreading and the growing2 and that is as true in every other department of the world as it is in vegetation4 ,i believe it2 but that does not account for the ,bible doctrine4 ,we are told we have a book absolutely inspired1 and it will not do to say ,god gradually grows4 ,if he is infinite now1 he knows as much as he ever will4 ,if he has been always infinite1 he knew as much at the time he wrote the ,bible as he knows to-day2 and1 consequently1 whatever he said then must be as true now as it was then4 ,you see they mix up now a little bit of philosophy with religion--a little bit of science with the shreds and patches of the supernatural4 ,hear this3 ,i said in my lecture the other day that all the clergymen in the world could not get one drop of rain out of the sky4 ,i insist on it4 ,all the prayers on earth cannot produce one drop of rain4 ,i also said all the clergymen of the world could not save one human life4 ,they tried it last year4 ,they tried it in the ,united ,states4 ,the ,christian world upon its knees implored ,god to save one life1 and the man died4 ,the man died6 ,had the man recovered the whole church would have claimed that it was in answer to prayer4 ,the man having died1 what does the church say now8 ,what is the answer to this8 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,thomas says3 ,there is prayer and there is rain4 ,good4 ,can he that is himself or any one else say there is no possible relation between one and the other8 ,i do4 ,let us put it another way4 ,there is rain and there is infidelity2 can any one say there is no possible relation between the two8 ,how does ,dr4 ,thomas know that he is not indebted to me for this year's crops8 ,and yet this gentleman really throws out the idea that there is some possible relation between prayer and rain1 between rain and health2 and he tells us that he would have died twenty-five years ago had it not been for prayer4 ,i doubt it4 ,prayer is not a medicine4 ,life depends upon certain facts--not upon prayer4 ,all the prayer in the world cannot take the place of the circulation of the blood4 ,all the prayer in the world is no substitute for digestion4 ,all the prayer in the world cannot take the place of food2 and whenever a man lives by prayer you will find that he eats considerable besides4 ,it will not do4 ,again3 ,this reverend ,doctor says3 ,shall we say that all the love of the unseen world--how does he know there is any love in the unseen world8 and the love of ,god--how does he know there is any love in ,god8 heed not the cries and tears of earth8 ,i do not know2 but let the gentleman read the history of religious persecution4 ,let him read the history of those who were put in dungeons1 of those who lifted their chained hands to ,god and mingled prayer with the clank of fetters2 men that were in the dungeons simply for loving this ,god1 simply for worshiping this ,god4 ,and what did ,god do8 ,nothing4 ,the chains remained upon the limbs of his worshipers4 ,they remained in the dungeons built by theology1 by malice1 and hatred2 and what did ,god do8 ,nothing4 ,thousands of men were taken from their homes1 fagots were piled around their bodies2 they were consumed to ashes1 and what did ,god do8 ,nothing4 ,the sword of extermination was unsheathed1 hundreds and thousands of men1 women and children perished4 ,women lifted their hands to ,god and implored him to protect their children1 their daughters2 and what did ,god do8 ,nothing4 ,whole races were enslaved1 and the cruel lash was put upon the naked back of toil4 ,what did ,god do8 ,nothing4 ,children were sold from the arms of mothers4 ,all the sweet humanities of life were trodden beneath the brutal foot of creed2 and what did ,god do8 ,nothing4 ,human beings1 his children1 were tracked through swamps by bloodhounds2 and what did ,god do8 ,nothing4 ,wild storms sweep over the earth and the shipwrecked go down in the billows2 and what does ,god do8 ,nothing4 ,there come plague and pestilence and famine4 ,what does ,god do8 ,thousands and thousands perish4 ,little children die upon the withered breasts of mothers2 and what does ,god do8 ,nothing4 ,what evidence has ,dr4 ,thomas that the cries and tears of man have ever touched the heart of ,god8 ,let us be honest4 ,i appeal to the history of the world2 ,i appeal to the tears1 and blood1 and agony1 and imprisonment1 and death of hundreds and millions of the bravest and best4 ,have they ever touched the heart of the ,infinite8 ,has the hand of help ever been reached from heaven8 ,i do not know2 but ,i do not believe it4 ,dr4 ,thomas tells me that is orthodox ,christianity4 ,what right has he to tell what is orthodox ,christianity8 ,he is a heretic4 ,he had too much brain to remain in the ,methodist pulpit4 ,he had a doubt--and a doubt is born of an idea4 ,and his doctrine has been declared by his own church to be unorthodox4 ,they have passed on his case and they have found him unconstitutional4 ,what right has he to state what is orthodox8 ,and here is what he says3 ,christianity--orthodox ,christianity ,i suppose he means--teaches1 concerning the future world1 that rewards and punishments are carried over from time to eternity2 that the principles of the government of ,god are the same there as here2 that character1 and not profession determines destiny2 and that ,humboldt1 and ,dickens1 and all others who have gone and shall go to that world shall receive their just rewards2 that souls will always be in the place in which for the time1 be it now or a million years hence1 they are fitted4 ,that is what ,christianity teaches4 ,if it does1 never will ,i have another word to say against ,christianity4 ,it never has taught it4 ,christianity--orthodox ,christianity--teaches that when you draw your last breath you have lost the last opportunity for reformation4 ,christianity teaches that this little world is the eternal line between time and eternity1 and if you do not get religion in this life1 you will be eternally damned in the next4 ,that is ,christianity4 ,they say3 ,now is the accepted time4 ,if you put it off until you die1 that is too late2 and the doctrine of the ,christian world is that there is no opportunity for reformation in another world4 ,the doctrine of orthodox ,christianity is that you must believe on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ here in this life1 and it will not do to believe on him in the next world4 ,you must believe on him here and that if you fail here1 ,god in his infinite wisdom will never give you another chance4 ,that is orthodox ,christianity2 and according to orthodox ,christianity1 the greatest1 the best and the sublimest of the world are now in hell4 ,and why is it that they say it is not orthodox ,christianity8 ,i have made them ashamed of their doctrine4 ,when ,i called to their attention the fact that such men as ,darwin1 such men as ,emerson1 ,dickens1 ,longfellow1 ,laplace1 ,shakespeare1 and ,humboldt1 were in hell1 it struck them all at once that the company in heaven would not be very interesting with such men left out4 ,and now they begin to say3 ,we think the ,lord will give those men another chance4 ,i have succeeded in my mission beyond my most sanguine expectations4 ,i have made orthodox ministers deny their creeds2 ,i have made them ashamed of their doctrine--and that is glory enough4 ,they will let me in1 a few years after ,i am dead4 ,i admit that the doctrine that ,god will treat us as we treat others--,i admit that is taught by ,matthew1 ,mark1 and ,luke2 but it is not taught by the ,orthodox church4 ,i want that understood4 ,i admit also that ,dr4 ,thomas is not orthodox1 and that he was driven out of the church because he thought ,god too good to damn men forever without giving them the slightest chance4 ,why1 the ,catholic ,church is a thousand times better than your ,protestant ,church upon that question4 ,the ,catholic ,church believes in purgatory--that is1 a place where a fellow can get a chance to make a motion for a new trial4 ,dr4 ,thomas1 all ,i ask of you is to tell all that you think4 ,tell your congregation whether you believe the ,bible was written by divine inspiration4 ,have the courage and the grandeur to tell your people whether1 in your judgment1 ,god ever upheld slavery4 ,do not shrink4 ,do not shirk4 ,tell your people whether ,god ever upheld polygamy4 ,do not shrink4 ,tell them whether ,god was ever in favor of religious persecution4 ,stand right to it4 ,then tell your people whether you honestly believe that a good man can suffer for a bad one and the bad one get the credit4 ,be honor bright4 ,tell what you really think and there will not be as much difference between you and myself as you imagine4 ,the next gentleman1 ,i believe1 is the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,lorimer4 ,he comes to the rescue1 and ,i have an idea of his mental capacity from the fact that he is a ,baptist4 ,he believes that the infinite ,god has a choice as to the manner in which a man or babe shall be dampened4 ,this gentleman regards modern infidelity as pitifully shallow as to its intellectual conceptions and as to its philosophical views of the universe and of the problems regarding man's place in it and of his destiny4 ,pitifully shallow6 ,what is the modern conception of the universe8 ,the modern conception is that the universe always has been and forever will be4 ,the modern conception of the universe is that it embraces within its infinite arms all matter1 all spirit1 all forms of force1 all that is1 all that has been1 all that can be4 ,that is the modern conception of this universe4 ,and this is called pitiful4 ,what is the ,christian conception8 ,it is that all the matter in the universe is dead1 inert1 and that back of it is a ,jewish ,jehovah who made it1 and who is now engaged in managing the affairs of this world4 ,and they even go so far as to say that that ,being made experiments in which he signally failed4 ,that ,being made man and woman and put them in a garden and allowed them to become totally depraved4 ,that ,being of infinite wisdom made hundreds and millions of people when he knew he would have to drown them4 ,that ,being peopled a planet like this with men1 women and children1 knowing that he would have to consign most of them to eternal fire4 ,that is a pitiful conception of the universe4 ,that is an infamous conception of the universe4 ,give me rather the conception of ,spinoza1 the conception of ,humboldt1 of ,darwin1 of ,huxley1 of ,tyndall and of every other man who has thought4 ,i love to think of the whole universe together as one eternal fact4 ,i love to think that everything is alive2 that crystallization is itself a step toward joy4 ,i love to think that when a bud bursts into blossom it feels a thrill4 ,i love to have the universe full of feeling and full of joy1 and not full of simple dead1 inert matter1 managed by an old bachelor for all eternity4 ,another thing to which this gentleman objects is that ,i propose to banish such awful thoughts as the mystery of our origin and our relations to the present and to the possible future from human thought4 ,i have never said so4 ,never4 ,i have said1 ,one world at a time4 ,why8 ,do not make yourself miserable about another4 ,why8 ,because ,i do not know anything about it1 and it may be good4 ,so do not worry4 ,that is all4 ,y or do not know where you are going to land4 ,it may be the happy port of heaven4 ,wait until you get there4 ,it will be time enough to make trouble then4 ,this is what ,i have said4 ,i have said that the golden bridge of life from gloom emerges1 and on shadow rests4 ,i do not know4 ,i admit it4 ,life is a shadowy strange and winding road on which we travel for a few short steps1 just a little way from the cradle with its lullaby of love1 to the low and quiet wayside inn where all at last must sleep1 and where the only salutation is ,good-,night6 ,whether there is a good morning ,i do not know1 but ,i am willing to wait4 ,let us think these high and splendid thoughts4 ,let us build palaces for the future1 but do not let us spend time making dungeons for men who happen to differ from us4 ,i am willing to take the conceptions of ,humboldt and ,darwin1 of ,haeckel and ,spinoza1 and ,i am willing to compare their splendid conceptions with the doctrine embraced in the ,baptist creed4 ,this gentleman has his ideas upon a variety of questions1 and he tells me that1 ,no one has a right to say that ,dickens1 ,longfellow1 and ,darwin are castaways6 ,why not8 ,they were not ,christians4 ,they did not believe in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ4 ,they did not believe in the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,and1 if orthodox religion be true1 they are castaways4 ,but he says3 ,no one has the right to say that orthodoxy condemns to perdition any man who has struggled toward the right1 and who has tried to bless the earth he is raised on4 ,that is what ,i say1 but that is not what orthodoxy says4 ,orthodoxy says that the best man in the world1 if he fails to believe in the existence of ,god1 or in the divinity of ,christ1 will be eternally lost4 ,does it not say it8 ,is there an orthodox minister in this town now who will stand up and say that an honest atheist can be saved8 ,he will not4 ,let any preacher say it1 and he will be tried for heresy4 ,i will tell you what orthodoxy is4 ,a man goes to the day of judgment1 and they cross-examine him1 and they say to him3 ,did you believe the ,bible8 ,no4 ,did you belong to the church8 ,no4 ,did you take care of your wife and children8 ,yes8 ,pay your debts8 ,yes4 ,love your country8 ,yes4 ,love the whole world8 ,yes4 ,never made anybody unhappy8 ,not that ,i know of4 ,if there is any man or woman that ,i ever wronged let them stand up and say so4 ,that is the kind of man ,i am2 but1 said he1 ,i did not believe the ,bible4 ,i did not believe in the divinity of ,jesus ,christ1 and1 to tell you the truth1 ,i did not believe in the existence of ,god4 ,i now find ,i was mistaken2 but that was my doctrine4 ,now1 ,i want to know what1 according to the orthodox church1 is done with that man8 ,he is sent to hell4 ,that is their doctrine4 ,then the next fellow comes4 ,he says3 ,where did you come from8 ,and he looks off kind of stiffly1 with his head on one side and he says3 ,i came from the gallows4 ,i was just hung4 ,what were you hung for8 ,murdering my wife4 ,she wasn't a ,christian either1 she got left4 ,the day ,i was hung ,i was washed in the blood of the ,lamb4 ,that is ,christianity4 ,and they say to him3 ,come in6 ,let the band play6 ,that is orthodox ,christianity4 ,every man that is hanged--there is a minister there1 and the minister tells him he is all right4 ,all he has to do is just to believe on the ,lord4 ,another objection this gentleman has1 and that is that ,i am scurrilous4 ,scurrilous6 ,and the gentleman1 in order to show that he is not scurrilous1 calls infidels1 donkeys1 serpents1 buzzards4 ,that is simply to show that he is not scurrilous4 ,dr4 ,lorimer is also of the opinion that the mind thinks independently of the will2 and ,i propose to prove by him that it does4 ,he is the last man in the world to controvert that doctrine--the last man4 ,in spite of himself his mind absorbed the sermon of another man1 and he repeated it as his own4 ,i am satisfied he is an honest man2 consequently his mind acted independently of his will1 and he furnishes the strongest evidence in favor of my position that it is possible to conceive4 ,i am infinitely obliged to him for the testimony he has unconsciously offered4 ,he also takes the ground that infidelity debases a man and renders him unfit for the discharge of the highest duties pertaining to life1 and that we show the greatest shallowness when we endeavor to overthrow ,calvinism4 ,what is ,calvinism8 ,it is the doctrine that an infinite ,god made millions of people1 knowing that they would be damned4 ,i have answered that a thousand times4 ,i answer it again4 ,no ,god has a right to make a mistake1 and then damn the mistake4 ,no ,god has a right to make a failure1 and a man who is to be eternally damned is not a conspicuous success4 ,no ,god has a right to make an investment that will not finally pay a dividend4 ,the world is getting better1 and the ministers1 all your life and all mine1 have been crying out from the pulpit that we are all going wrong1 that immorality was stalking through the land1 that crime was about to engulf the world1 and yet1 in spite of all their prophecies1 the world has steadily grown better1 and there is more justice1 more charity1 more kindness1 more goodness1 and more liberty in the world to-day than ever before4 ,and there is more infidelity in the world to-day than ever before4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,rev4 ,,john ,,hall ,,and ,,warner ,,van ,,norden4 99 ,the attention of the ,morning ,advertiser readers was1 in the issue of ,february #bgth1 called to two sets of facts transpiring contemporaneously in this city4 ,one was the starving condition of four hundred cloakmakers who had struck because they could not live on reduced wages4 ,arbitration had failed2 two hundred of the number1 seeing starvation staring them in the face1 were forced to give up the fight1 and the remaining number continued to do battle for higher wages ,while these cloakmakers were in the extremity of destitution1 millionaires were engaged in subscribing to a fund for the extension of the church4 ,the extension committee1 received at the home of ,jay ,gould1 had met with such signal success as to cause comment throughout the city4 ,the host subscribed ten thousand dollars1 his daughter twenty-five hundred and the assembled guests sums ranging between five hundred and one thousand4 ,the ,morning ,advertiser made inquiry as to whether any of the money contributed for the extension of the church would find its way into the pockets of the hungry cloakmakers4 ,dr4 ,john ,hall said he did not have time to discuss the matter of aiding the needy poor1 as there were so many other things that demanded his immediate attention4 ,mr4 ,warner ,van ,norden1 ,treasurer of the ,church ,extension ,committee1 was seen at his office in the ,north ,american ,bank1 of which institution he is ,president4 ,he took the view that the cloakmakers had brought their trouble upon themselves1 and it was not the duty of the charitable to extend to them direct aid4 ,generally speaking1 he was not in favor of helping the poor and needy of the city1 save in the way employed by the church4 ,the experience of centuries1 said he1 teaches us that the giving of alms to the poor only encourage them in their idleness and their crimes4 ,the duty of the church is to save men's a souls1 and to minister to their bodies incidentally4 ,it is best to teach people to rely upon their own resources4 ,if the poor felt that they could get material help1 they would want it always4 ,in these days if a man or woman can't get along it's their own fault4 ,there is my typewriter4 ,she was brought up in a tenement house4 ,now she gets two dollars a day1 and dresses better than did the lords and ladies of other times4 ,you'll find that where people are poor1 it's their own fault4 ,after all1 happiness does not lie in the enjoyment of material things--it is the soul that makes life worth living4 ,you should come to our ,working ,girls' ,club and see this fact illustrated4 ,there you will see girls who have been working all day1 singing hymns and following the leader in prayer4 ,don't you think there are many worthy poor in this city who need material help8 was asked4 ,no1 sir2 ,i do not1 said ,mr4 ,van ,norden4 ,if a man or woman wants money1 they should work for ,it4 ,but is employment always to be had8 ,i think it is by ,americans4 ,you'll find that most of the people out of work are those who are not adapted to the conditions of this country4 ,colonel ,robert ,ingersoll was asked what he thought of such philosophy4--,new ,york ,morning ,advertiser1 ,march #aj1ahib4 ,question4 ,have you read the article in the ,morning ,advertiser entitled ,workers ,starving8 ,answer4 ,i have read it1 and was greatly surprised at the answers made to the reporter of the ,advertiser4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the remarks of the ,rev4 ,john ,hall and by ,mr4 ,warner ,van ,norden1 ,treasurer of the ,church ,extension ,committee8 ,answer4 ,my opinion is that ,dr4 ,hall must have answered under some irritation1 or that the reporter did not happen to take down all he said4 ,it hardly seems probable that ,dr4 ,hall should have said that he had no time to discuss the matter of aiding the needy poor1 giving as a reason that there were so many other things that demanded his immediate attention4 ,the church is always insisting that it is1 above all things1 a charitable institution2 that it collects and distributes many millions every year for the relief of the needy1 and it is always quoting3 ,sell that thou hast and give to the poor4 ,it is hard to imagine anything of more importance than to relieve the needy1 or to succor the oppressed4 ,of course1 ,i know that the church itself produces nothing1 and that it lives on contributions2 but its claim is that it receives from those who are able to give1 and gives to those who are in urgent need4 ,i have sometimes thought1 that the most uncharitable thing in the world is an organized charity4 ,it seems to have the peculiarities of a corporation1 and becomes as soulless as its kindred4 ,to use a very old phrase1 it generally acts like a beggar on horseback4 ,probably ,dr4 ,hall1 in fact1 does a great deal for the poor1 and ,i imagine that he must have been irritated or annoyed when he made the answer attributed to him in the ,advertiser4 ,the good ,samaritan may have been in a hurry1 but he said nothing about it4 ,the ,levites that passed by on the other side seemed to have had other business4 ,understand me1 ,i am saying nothing against ,dr4 ,hall1 but it does seem to me that there are few other matters more important than assisting our needy fellow-men4 ,question4 ,what do you think of ,mr4 ,warner ,van ,norden's sentiments as expressed to the reporter8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 ,i think he is entirely mistaken4 ,i do not think the cloakmakers brought their trouble upon themselves4 ,the wages they receive were and are insufficient to support reasonable human beings4 ,they work for almost nothing1 and it is hard for me to understand why they live at all1 when life is so expensive and death so cheap4 ,all they can possibly do is to earn enough one day to buy food to enable them to work the next4 ,life with them is a perpetual struggle4 ,they live on the edge of death4 ,under their feet they must feel the side of the grave crumbling1 and thus they go through1 day by day1 month by month1 year by year4 ,they are1 ,i presume1 sustained by a hope that is never realized4 ,mr4 ,van ,norden says that he is not in favor of helping the poor and needy of the city1 save in the way employed by the church1 and that the experience of centuries teaches us that the giving of alms to the poor only encourages them in their idleness and their crimes4 ,is ,mr4 ,van ,norden ready to take the ground that when ,christ said3 ,sell that thou hast and give to the poor1 he intended to encourage idleness and crime8 ,is it possible that when it was said1 ,it is better to give than to receive1 the real meaning was1 ,it is better to encourage idleness and crime than to receive assistance8 ,for instance1 a man falls into the water4 ,why should one standing on the shore attempt to rescue him8 ,could he not properly say3 ,if all who fall into the water are rescued1 it will only encourage people to fall into the water2 it will make sailors careless1 and persons who stand on wharves1 will care very little whether they fall in or not4 ,therefore1 in order to make people careful who have not fallen into the water1 let those in the water drown4 ,in other words1 why should anybody be assisted1 if assistance encourages carelessness1 or idleness1 or negligence8 ,according to ,mr4 ,van ,norden1 charity is out of place in this world1 kindness is a mistake1 and hospitality springs from a lack of philosophy4 ,in other words1 all should take the consequences of their acts1 not only1 but the consequences of the acts of others4 ,if ,i knew this doctrine to be true1 ,i should still insist that men should be charitable on their own account4 ,a man without pity1 no matter how intelligent he may be1 is at best only an intellectual beast1 and if by withholding all assistance we could finally people the world with those who are actually self-supporting1 we would have a population without sympathy1 without charity--that is to say1 without goodness4 ,in my judgment1 it would be far better that none should exist4 ,mr4 ,van ,norden takes the ground that the duty of the church is to save men's souls1 and to minister to their bodies incidentally4 ,i think that conditions have a vast deal to do with morality and goodness4 ,if you wish to change the conduct of your fellow-men1 the first thing to do is to change their conditions1 their surroundings2 in other words1 to help them to help themselves--help them to get away from bad influences1 away from the darkness of ignorance1 away from the temptations of poverty and want1 not only into the light intellectually1 but into the climate of prosperity4 ,it is useless to give a hungry man a religious tract1 and it is almost useless to preach morality to those who are so situated that the necessity of the present1 the hunger of the moment1 overrides every other consideration4 ,there is a vast deal of sophistry in hunger1 and a good deal of persuasion in necessity4 ,prosperity is apt to make men selfish4 ,they imagine that because they have succeeded1 others and all others1 might or may succeed4 ,if any man will go over his own life honestly1 he will find that he has not always succeeded because he was good1 or that he has always failed because he was bad4 ,he will find that many things happened with which he had nothing to do1 for his benefit1 and that1 after all is said and done1 he cannot account for all of his successes by his absolute goodness4 ,so1 if a man will think of all the bad things he has done--of all the bad things he wanted to do--of all the bad things he would have done had he had the chance1 and had he known that detection was impossible1 he will find but little foundation for egotism4 ,question4 ,what do you say to this language of ,mr4 ,van ,norden4 ,it is best to teach people to rely upon their own resources4 ,if the poor felt that they could get material help they would want it always1 and in this day1 if a man and woman cannot get along1 it is their own fault8 ,answer4 ,all ,i can say is that ,i do not agree with him4 ,often there are many more men in a certain trade than there is work for such men4 ,often great factories shut down1 leaving many thousands out of employment4 ,you may say that it was the fault of these men that they learned that trade2 that they might have known it would be overcrowded2 so you may say it was the fault of the capitalist to start a factory in that particular line1 because he should have known that it was to be overdone4 ,as no man can look very far into the future1 the truth is it was nobody's fault1 and without fault thousands and thousands are thrown out of employment4 ,competition is so sharp1 wages are so small1 that to be out of employment for a few weeks means want4 ,you cannot say that this is the fault of the man who wants bread4 ,he certainly did not wish to go hungry2 neither did he deliberately plan a failure4 ,he did the best he could4 ,there are plenty of bankers who fail in business1 not because they wish to fail2 so there are plenty of professional men who cannot make a living1 yet it may not be their fault2 and there are others who get rich1 and it may not be by reason of their virtues4 ,without doubt1 there are many people in the city of ,new ,york who cannot make a living4 ,competition is too sharp2 life is too complex2 consequently the percentage of failures is large4 ,in savage life there are few failures1 but in civilized life there are many4 ,there are many thousands out of work and out of food in ,berlin to-day4 ,it can hardly be said to be their fault4 ,so there are many thousands in ,london1 and every other great city of the world4 ,you cannot account for all this want by saying that the people who want are entirely to blame4 ,a man gets rich1 and he is often egotistic enough to think that his wealth was the result of his own unaided efforts2 and he is sometimes heartless enough to say that others should get rich by following his example4 ,mr4 ,van ,norden states that he has a typewriter who gets two dollars a day1 and that she dresses better than the lords and ladies did of olden times4 ,he must refer to the times of the ,garden of ,eden4 ,out of two dollars a day one must live1 and there is very little left for gorgeous robes4 ,i hardly think a lady is to be envied because she receives two dollars a day1 and the probability is that the manner in which she dresses on that sum--having first deducted the expenses of living--is not calculated to excite envy4 ,the philosophy of ,mr4 ,van ,norden seems to be concentrated into this line3 ,where people are poor it is their own fault4 ,of course this is the death of all charity4 ,we are then informed by this gentleman that happiness does not lie in the enjoyment of material things--that it is the soul that makes life worth living4 ,is it the soul without pity that makes life worth living8 ,is it the soul in which the blossom of charity has never shed its perfume that makes life so desirable8 ,is it the soul1 having all material things1 wrapped in the robes of prosperity1 and that says to all the poor3 ,it is your own fault2 die of hunger if you must--that makes life worth living8 ,it may be asked whether it is worth while for such a soul to live4 ,if this is the philosophy of ,mr4 ,van ,norden1 ,i do not wish to visit his working girls' club1 or to hear girls who have been working all day singing hymns and following the leader in prayer4 ,why should a soul without pity pray8 ,why should any one ask ,god to be merciful to the poor if he is not merciful himself8 ,for my own part1 ,i would rather see poor people eat than to hear them pray4 ,i would rather see them clothed comfortably than to see them shivering1 and at the same time hear them sing hymns4 ,it does not seem possible that any man can say that there are no worthy poor in this city who need material help4 ,neither does it seem possible that any man can say to one who is starving that if he wants money he must work for it4 ,there are hundreds and thousands in this city willing to work who can find no employment4 ,there are good and pure women standing between their children and starvation1 living in rooms worse than cells in penitentiaries--giving their own lives to their children--hundreds and hundreds of martyrs bearing the cross of every suffering1 worthy of the reverence and love of mankind4 ,so there are men wandering about these streets in search of work1 willing to do anything to feed the ones they love4 ,mr4 ,van ,norden has not done himself justice4 ,i do not believe that he expresses his real sentiments4 ,but1 after all1 why should we expect charity in a church that believes in the dogma of eternal pain8 ,why cannot the rich be happy here in their palaces1 while the poor suffer and starve in huts1 when these same rich expect to enjoy heaven forever1 with all the unbelievers in hell8 ,why should the agony of time interfere with their happiness1 when the agonies of eternity will not and cannot affect their joy8 ,but ,i have nothing against ,dr4 ,john ,hall or ,mr4 ,van ,norden--only against their ideas4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,rev4 ,,dr4 ,,plumb4 99 ,boston1 #ahih4 ,question4 ,last ,sunday the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,plumb paid some attention to the lecture which you delivered here on the #bcrd of ,october4 ,have you read a report of it1 and what have you to say8 ,answer4 ,dr4 ,plumb attacks not only myself1 but the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,mills4 ,i do not know the position that ,mr4 ,mills takes1 but from what ,dr4 ,plumb says1 ,i suppose that he has mingled a little philosophy with his religion and some science with his superstition4 ,dr4 ,plumb appears to have successfully avoided both4 ,his manners do not appear to me to be of the best4 ,why should he call an opponent coarse and blasphemous1 simply because he does not happen to believe as he does8 ,is it blasphemous to say that this poor world never was visited by a ,redeemer from ,heaven1 a majestic being--unique--peculiar--who trod the sea and hushed the storm and raised the dead8 ,why does ,dr4 ,plumb call this world a poor world8 ,according to his creed1 it was created by infinite wisdom1 infinite goodness and infinite power4 ,how dare he call the work of such a being poor8 ,is it not blasphemous for a ,boston minister to denounce the work of the ,infinite and say to ,god that he made a poor world8 ,if ,i believed this world had been made by an infinitely wise and good ,being1 ,i should certainly insist that this is not a poor world1 but1 on the contrary1 a perfect world4 ,i would insist that everything that happens is for the best4 ,whether it looks wise or foolish to us1 ,i would insist that the fault we thought we saw1 lies in us and not in the infinitely wise and benevolent ,creator4 ,dr4 ,plumb may love ,god1 but he certainly regards him as a poor mechanic and a failure as a manufacturer4 ,there ,dr4 ,plumb1 like all religious preachers1 takes several things for granted2 things that have not been established by evidence1 and things which in their nature cannot be established4 ,he tells us that this poor world was visited by a mighty ,redeemer from ,heaven4 ,how does he know8 ,does he know where heaven is8 ,does he know that any such place exists8 ,is he perfectly sure that an infinite ,god would be foolish enough to make people who needed a redeemer8 ,he also says that this ,being trod the sea1 hushed the storm and raised the dead4 ,is there any evidence that this ,being trod the sea8 ,any more evidence than that ,venus rose from the foam of the ocean8 ,any evidence that he hushed the storm any more than there is that the storm comes from the cave of ,a,eolus8 ,is there any evidence that he raised the dead8 ,how would it be possible to prove that the dead were raised8 ,how could we prove such a thing if it happened now8 ,who would believe the evidence8 ,as a matter of fact1 the witnesses themselves would not believe and could not believe until raising of the dead became so general as to be regarded as natural4 ,dr4 ,plumb knows1 if he knows anything1 that gospel gossip is the only evidence he has1 or anybody has1 that ,christ trod the sea1 hushed the storm and raised the dead4 ,he also knows1 if he knows anything1 that these stories were not written until ,christ himself had been dead for at least four generations4 ,he knows also that these accounts were written at a time when the belief in miracles was almost universal1 and when everything that actually happened was regarded of no particular importance1 and only the things that did not happen were carefully written out with all the details4 ,so ,dr4 ,plumb says that this man who hushed the storm spake as never man spake4 ,did the ,doctor ever read ,zeno8 ,zeno1 who denounced human slavery many years before ,christ was born8 ,did he ever read ,epicurus1 one of the greatest of the ,greeks8 ,has he read anything from ,buddha8 ,has he read the dialogues between ,arjuna and ,krishna8 ,if he has1 he knows that every great and splendid utterance of ,christ was uttered centuries before he lived4 ,did he ever read ,lao-tsze8 ,if he did--and this man lived many centuries before the coming of our ,lord--he knows that ,lao-tsze said we should render benefits for injuries4 ,we should love our enemies1 and we should not resist evil4 ,so it will hardly do now to say that ,christ spake as never man spake1 because he repeated the very things that other men had said4 ,so he says that ,i am endeavoring to carry people back to a dimly groping ,socrates or a vague ,confucius4 ,did ,dr4 ,plumb ever read ,confucius8 ,only a little while ago a book was published by ,mr4 ,for-long showing the origin of the principal religion and the creeds that have been taught4 ,in this book you will find the cream of ,buddha1 of ,christ1 of ,zoroaster1 and you will also find a few pages devoted to the philosophy of ,confucius2 and after you have read the others1 then read what ,confucius says1 and you will find that his philosophy rises like a monolith touching the clouds1 while the creeds and sayings of the others appear like heaps of stone or piles of rubbish4 ,the reason of this is that ,confucius was not simply a sentimentalist4 ,he was not controlled entirely by feeling1 but he had intelligence--a great brain in which burned the torch of reason4 ,read ,confucius1 and you will think that he must have known the sciences of to-day2 that is to say1 the conclusions that have been reached by modern thinkers4 ,it could have been easily said of ,confucius in his day that he spake as never man had spoken1 and it may be that after you read him you will change your mind just a little as to the wisdom and the intelligence contained in many of the sayings of our ,lord4 ,dr4 ,plumb charges that ,mr4 ,mills is trying to reconstruct theology4 ,whether he is right in this charge ,i do not know1 but ,i do know that ,i am not trying to reconstruct theology4 ,i am endeavoring to destroy it4 ,i have no more confidence in theology than ,i have in astrology or in the black art4 ,theology is a science that exists wholly independent of facts1 and that reaches conclusions without the assistance of evidence4 ,it also scorns experience and does what little it can to do away with thought4 ,i make a very great distinction between theology and real religion4 ,i can conceive of no religion except usefulness4 ,now1 here we are1 men and women in this world1 and we have certain faculties1 certain senses4 ,there are things that we can ascertain1 and by developing our brain we can avoid mistakes1 keep a few thorns out of our feet1 a few thistles out of our hands1 a few diseases from our flesh4 ,in my judgment1 we should use all our senses1 gathering information from every possible quarter1 and this information should be only used for the purpose of ascertaining the facts1 for finding out the conditions of well-being1 to the end that we may add to the happiness of ourselves and fellows4 ,in other words1 ,i believe in intellectual veracity and also in mental hospitality4 ,to me reason is the final arbiter1 and when ,i say reason1 ,i mean my reason4 ,it may be a very poor light1 the flame small and flickering1 but1 after all1 it is the only light ,i have1 and never with my consent shall any preacher blow it out4 ,now1 ,dr4 ,plumb thinks that ,i am trying to despoil my fellow-men of their greatest inheritance2 that is to say1 divine ,christ4 ,why do you call ,christ good8 ,is it because he was merciful8 ,then why do you put him above mercy8 ,why do you call ,christ good8 ,is it because he was just8 ,why do you put him before justice8 ,suppose it should turn out that no such person as ,christ ever lived4 ,what harm would that do justice or mercy8 ,wouldn't the tear of pity be as pure as now1 and wouldn't justice1 holding aloft her scales1 from which she blows even the dust of prejudice1 be as noble1 as admirable as now8 ,is it not better to love1 justice and mercy than to love a name1 and when you put a name above justice1 above mercy1 are you sure that you are benefiting your fellow-men8 ,if ,dr4 ,plumb wanted to answer me1 why did he not take my argument instead of my motive8 ,why did he not point out my weakness instead of telling the consequences that would follow from my action8 ,we have nothing to do with the consequences4 ,i said that to believe without evidence1 or in spite of evidence1 was superstition4 ,if that definition is correct1 ,dr4 ,plumb is a superstitious man1 because he believes at least without evidence4 ,what evidence has he that ,christ was ,god8 ,in the nature of things1 how could he have evidence8 ,the only evidence he pretends to have is the dream of ,joseph1 and he does not know that ,joseph ever dreamed the dream1 because ,joseph did not write an account of his dream1 so that ,dr4 ,plumb has only hearsay for the dream1 and the dream is the foundation of his creed4 ,now1 when ,i say that that is superstition1 ,dr4 ,plumb charges me with being a burglar--a coarse1 blasphemous burglar--who wishes to rob somebody of some great blessing4 ,dr4 ,plumb would not hesitate to tell a ,mohammedan that ,mohammed was an impostor4 ,he would tell a ,mormon in ,utah that ,joseph ,smith was a vulgar liar and that ,brigham ,young was no better4 ,in other words1 if in ,turkey1 he would be a coarse and blasphemous burglar1 and he would follow the same profession in ,utah4 ,so probably he would tell the ,chinese that ,confucius was an ignorant wretch and that their religion was idiotic1 and the ,chinese priest would denounce ,dr4 ,plumb as a very coarse and blasphemous burglar1 and ,dr4 ,plumb would be perfectly astonished that a priest could be so low1 so impudent and malicious4 ,of course my wonder is not excited4 ,i have become used to it4 ,if ,dr4 ,plumb would think1 if he would exercise his imagination a little and put himself in the place of others1 he would think1 in all probability1 better things of his opponents4 ,i do not know ,dr4 ,plumb1 and yet ,i have no doubt that he is a good and sincere man2 a little superstitious1 superficial1 and possibly1 mingled with his many virtues1 there may be a little righteous malice4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,mills used to believe as ,dr4 ,plumb does now1 and ,i suppose he has changed for reasons that were sufficient for him4 ,so ,i believe him to be an honest1 conscientious man1 and so far as ,i am concerned1 ,i have no objection to ,mr4 ,mills doing what little he can to get all the churches to act together4 ,he may never succeed1 but ,i am not responsible for that4 ,so ,i have no objection to ,dr4 ,plumb preaching what he believes to be the gospel4 ,i admit that he is honest when he says that an infinitely good ,god made a poor world2 that he made man and woman and put them in the ,garden of ,eden1 and that this same ,god before that time had manufactured a devil1 and that when he manufactured this devil1 he knew that he would corrupt the man and woman that he had determined to make2 that he could have defeated the devil1 but that for a wise purpose1 he allowed his ,satanic ,majesty to succeed2 that at the time he allowed him to succeed1 he knew that in consequence of his success that he 7,god7 in about fifteen or sixteen hundred years would be compelled to drown the whole world with the exception of eight people4 ,these eight people he kept for seed4 ,at the time he kept them for seed1 he knew that they were totally depraved1 that they were saturated with the sin of ,adam and ,eve1 and that their children would be their natural heirs4 ,he also knew at the time he allowed the devil to succeed1 that he 7,god71 some four thousand years afterward1 would be compelled to be born in ,palestine as a babe1 to learn the carpenter's trade1 and to go about the country for three years preaching to the people and discussing with the rabbis of his chosen people1 and he also knew that these chosen people--these people who had been governed and educated by him1 to whom he had sent a multitude of prophets1 would at that time be so savage that they would crucify him1 although he would be at that time the only sinless being who had ever stood upon the earth4 ,this he knew would be the effect of his government1 of his education of his chosen people4 ,he also knew at the time he allowed the devil to succeed1 that in consequence of that success a vast majority of the human race would become eternal convicts in the prison of hell4 ,all this he knew1 and yet ,dr4 ,plumb insists that he was and is infinitely wise1 infinitely powerful and infinitely good4 ,what would this ,god have done if he had lacked wisdom1 or power1 or goodness8 ,of all the religions that man has produced1 of all the creeds of savagery1 there is none more perfectly absurd than ,christianity4 ,a ,,reply ,,to ,,the ,,new ,,york ,,clergy ,,on ,,superstition4 99 ,new ,york ,journal1 #ahih4 ,an ,interview4 ,question4 ,have you followed the controversy1 or rather1 the interest manifested in the letters to the ,journal which have followed your lecture of ,sunday1 and what do you think of them8 ,answer4 ,i have read the letters and reports that have been published in the ,journal4 ,some of them seem to be very sincere1 some not quite honest1 and some a little of both4 ,the ,rev4 ,robert ,s4 ,mac,arthur takes the ground that very many ,christians do not believe in a personal devil1 but are still ,christians4 ,he states that they hold that the references in the ,new ,testament to the devil are simply to personifications of evil1 and do not apply to any personal existence4 ,he says that he could give the names of a number of pastors who hold such views4 ,he does not state what his view is4 ,consequently1 ,i do not know whether he is a believer in a personal devil or not4 ,the statement that the references in the ,new ,testament to a devil are simply to personifications of evil1 not applying to any personal existence1 seems to me utterly absurd4 ,the references to devils in the ,new ,testament are certainly as good and satisfactory as the references to angels4 ,now1 are the angels referred to in the ,new ,testament simply personifications of good1 and are there no such personal existences8 ,if devils are only personifications of evil1 how is it that these personifications of evil could hold arguments with ,jesus ,christ8 ,how could they talk back8 ,how could they publicly acknowledge the divinity of ,christ8 ,as a matter of fact1 the best evidences of ,christ's divinity in the ,new ,testament are the declarations of devils4 ,these devils were supposed to be acquainted with supernatural things1 and consequently knew a ,god when they saw one1 whereas the average ,jew1 not having been a citizen of the celestial world1 was unable to recognize a deity when he met him4 ,now1 these personifications of evil1 as ,dr4 ,mac-,arthur calls them1 were of various kinds4 ,some of them were dumb1 while others could talk1 and ,christ said1 speaking of the dumb devils1 that they were very difficult to expel from the bodies of men2 that it required fasting and prayer to get them out4 ,now1 did ,christ mean that these dumb devils did not exist8 ,that they were only personifications of evil8 ,now1 we are also told in the ,new ,testament that ,christ was tempted by the devil2 that is1 by a personification of evil1 and that this personification took him to the pinnacle of the temple and tried to induce him to jump off4 ,now1 where did this personification of evil come from8 ,was it an actual existence8 ,dr4 ,mac,arthur says that it may not have been4 ,then it did not come from the outside of ,christ4 ,if it existed it came from the inside of ,christ1 so that1 according to ,mac,arthur1 ,christ was the creator of his own devil4 ,i do not know that ,i have a right to say that this is ,dr4 ,mac,arthur's opinion1 as he has wisely refrained from giving his opinion4 ,i hope some time he will tell us whether he really believes in a devil or not1 or whether he thinks all allusions and references to devils in the ,new ,testament can be explained away by calling the devils personifications of evil4 ,then1 of course1 he will tell us whether it was a personification of evil that offered ,christ all the kingdoms of the world1 and whether ,christ expelled seven personifications of evil from ,mary ,magdalene1 and how did they come to count these personifications of evil8 ,if the devils1 after all1 are only personifications of evil1 then1 of course1 they cannot be numbered4 ,they are all one4 ,there may be different manifestations1 but1 in fact1 there can be but one1 and yet ,mary ,magdalene had seven4 ,dr4 ,mac,arthur states that ,i put up a man of straw1 and then vigorously beat him down4 ,now1 the question is1 do ,i attack a man of straw8 ,i take it for granted that ,christians to some extent1 at least1 believe in their creeds4 ,i suppose they regard the ,bible as the inspired word of ,god2 that they believe in the fall of man1 in the atonement1 in salvation by faith1 in the resurrection and ascension of ,christ4 ,i take it for granted that they believe these things4 ,of course1 the only evidence ,i have is what they say4 ,possibly that cannot be depended upon4 ,they may be dealing only in the personification of truth4 ,when ,i charge the orthodox ,christians with believing these things1 ,i am told that ,i am far behind the religious thinking of the hour1 but after all1 this man of straw is quite powerful4 ,prof4 ,briggs attacked this man of straw1 and the straw man turned on him and put him out4 ,a preacher by the name of ,smith1 a teacher in some seminary out in ,ohio1 challenged this man of straw1 and the straw man put him out4 ,both these reverend gentlemen were defeated by the straw man1 and if the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,mac,arthur will explain to his congregation1 ,i mean only explain what he calls the religious thinking of the hour1 the straw man will put him out too4 ,dr4 ,mac,arthur finds fault with me because ,i put into the minds of representative thinkers of to-day the opinions of medieval monks1 which leading religious teachers long ago discarded4 ,will ,dr4 ,mac,arthur have the goodness to point out one opinion that ,i have put into the minds of representative thinkers--that is1 of orthodox thinkers--that any orthodox religious teacher of to-day has discarded8 ,will he have the kindness to give just one8 ,in my lecture on ,superstition ,i did say that to deny the existence of evil spirits1 or to deny the existence of the devil1 is to deny the truth of the ,new ,testament2 and that to deny the existence of these imps of darkness is to contradict the words of ,jesus ,christ4 ,i did say that if we give up the belief in devils we must give up the inspiration of the ,old and ,new ,testaments1 and we must give up the divinity of ,christ4 ,upon that declaration ,i stand1 because if devils do not exist1 then ,jesus ,christ was mistaken1 or we have not in the ,new ,testament a true account of what he said and of what he pretended to do4 ,if the ,new ,testament gives a true account of his words and pretended actions1 then he did claim to cast out devils4 ,that was his principal business4 ,that was his certificate of divinity1 casting out devils4 ,that authenticated his mission and proved that he was superior to the hosts of darkness4 ,now1 take the devil out of the ,new ,testament1 and you also take the veracity of ,christ2 with that veracity you take the divinity2 with that divinity you take the atonement1 and when you take the atonement1 the great fabric known as ,christianity becomes a shapeless ruin4 ,now1 let ,dr4 ,mac ,arthur answer this1 and answer it not like a minister1 but like a man4 ,ministers are unconsciously a little unfair4 ,they have a little tendency to what might be called a natural crook4 ,they become spiritual when they ought to be candid4 ,they become a little ingenious and pious when they ought to be frank2 and when really driven into a corner1 they clasp their hands1 they look upward1 and they cry ,blasphemy6 ,i do not mean by this that they are dishonest4 ,i simply mean that they are illogical4 ,dr4 ,mac,arthur tells us also that ,spain is not a representative of progressive religious teachers4 ,i admit that4 ,there are no progressive religious teachers in ,spain1 and right here let me make a remark4 ,if religion rests on an inspired revelation1 it is incapable of progress4 ,it may be said that year after year we get to understand it better1 but if it is not understood when given1 why is it called a revelation8 ,there is no progress in the multiplication table4 ,some men are better mathematicians than others1 but the old multiplication table remains the same4 ,so there can be no progress in a revelation from ,god4 ,now1 ,spain--and that is the great mistake1 the great misfortune--has remained orthodox4 ,that is to say1 the ,spaniards have been true to their superstition4 ,of course the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,mac,arthur will not admit that ,catholicism is ,christianity1 and ,i suppose that the pope would hardly admit that a ,baptist is a very successful ,christian4 ,the trouble with ,spain is1 and the trouble with the ,baptist ,church is1 that neither of them has progressed to any great extent4 ,now1 in my judgment1 what is called religion must grow better as man grows better1 simply because it was produced by man and the better man is1 the nearer civilized he is1 the better1 the nearer civilized1 will be what he calls his religion2 and if the ,baptist religion has progressed1 it is a demonstration that it was not originally founded on a revelation from ,god4 ,in my lecture ,i stated that we had no right to make any distinction between the actions of infinite wisdom and goodness1 and that if ,god created and governs this world we ought to thank him1 if we thanked him at all1 for all that happens2 that we should thank him just as heartily for famine and cyclone as for sunshine and harvest1 and that if ,president ,mc,kinley thanked ,god for the victory at ,santiago1 he also should have thanked him for sending the yellow fever4 ,i stand by these words4 ,a finite being has no right to make any distinction between the actions of the infinitely good and wise4 ,if ,god governs this world1 then everything that happens is the very best that could happen4 ,when ,a murders ,b1 the best thing that could happen to ,a is to be a murderer and the best thing that could have happened to ,b was to be murdered4 ,there is no escape from this if the world is governed by infinite wisdom and goodness4 ,it will not do to try and dodge by saying that man is free4 ,this ,god who made man and made him free knew exactly how he would use his freedom1 and consequently this ,god cannot escape the responsibility for the actions of men4 ,he made them4 ,he knew exactly what they would do4 ,he is responsible4 ,if ,i could turn a piece of wood into a human being1 and ,i knew that he would murder a man1 who is the real murderer8 ,but if ,dr4 ,mac,arthur would think as much as he preaches1 he would come much nearer agreeing with me4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,j4 ,lewis ,parks is very sorry that he cannot discuss ,ingersoll's address1 because to do so would be dignifying ,ingersoll4 ,of course ,i deeply regret the refusal of ,dr4 ,j4 ,lewis ,parks to discuss the address4 ,i dislike to be compelled to go to the end of my life without being dignified4 ,at the same time ,i will forgive the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,j4 ,lewis ,parks for not answering me1 because ,i know that he cannot4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,moldehnke1 whose name seems chiefly made of consonants1 denounces me as a scoffer and as illogical1 and says that ,christianity is not founded upon the devil1 but upon ,christ4 ,he further says that we do not believe in such a thing as a devil in human form1 but we know that there is evil1 and that evil we call the devil4 ,he hides his head under the same leaf with ,dr4 ,mac,arthur by calling the devil evil4 ,now1 is this gentleman willing to say that all the allusions to the devil in the ,old and ,new ,testaments can be harmonized with the idea that the devil is simply a personification of evil8 ,can he say this and say it honestly8 ,but the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,moldehnke1 ,i think1 seems to be consistent2 seems to go along with the logic of his creed4 ,he says that the yellow fever1 if it visited our soldiers1 came from ,god1 and that we should thank ,god for it4 ,he does not say the soldiers should thank ,god for it1 or that those who had it should thank ,god for it1 but that we should thank ,god for it1 and there is this wonderful thing about ,christianity4 ,it enables us to bear with great fortitude1 with a kind of sublime patience1 the misfortunes of others4 ,he says that this yellow fever works out ,god's purposes4 ,of course ,i am not as well acquainted with the ,deity as the ,rev4 ,moldehnke appears to be4 ,i have not the faintest idea of what ,god's purposes are4 ,he works1 even according to his messengers1 in such a mysterious way1 that with the little reason ,i have ,i find it impossible to follow him4 ,why ,god should have any purpose that could be worked out with yellow fever1 or cholera1 or why he should ever ask the assistance of tapeworms1 or go in partnership with cancers1 or take in the plague as an assistant1 ,i have never been able to understand4 ,i do not pretend to know4 ,i admit my ignorance1 and after all1 the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,moldehnke may be right4 ,it may be that everything that happens is for the best4 ,at the same time1 ,i do not believe it4 ,there is a little old story on this subject that throws some light on the workings of the average orthodox mind4 ,one morning the son of an old farmer came in and said to his father1 ,one of the ewe lambs is dead4 ,well1 said the father2 that is all for the best4 ,twins never do very well1 any how4 ,the next morning the son reported the death of the other lamb1 and the old man said1 ,well1 that is all for the best2 the old ewe will have more wool4 ,the next morning the son said1 ,the old ewe is dead4 ,well1 replied the old man2 that may be for the best1 but ,i don't see it this morning4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,hamlin has the goodness to say that my influence is on the wane4 ,this is an admission that ,i have some1 for which ,i am greatly obliged to him4 ,he further states that all my arguments are easily refuted1 but fails to refute them on the ground that such refutation might be an advertisement for me4 ,now1 if ,mr4 ,hamlin would think a little1 he would see that there are some things in the lecture on ,superstition worth the while even of a ,methodist minister to answer4 ,does ,mr4 ,hamlin believe in the existence of the devil8 ,if he does1 will he ,have the goodness to say who created the devil8 ,he may say that ,god created him1 as he is the creator of all4 ,then ,i ask ,mr4 ,hamlin this question3 ,why did ,god create a successful rival8 ,when ,god created the devil1 did he not know at that time that he was to make this world8 ,that he was to create ,adam and ,eve and put them in the ,garden of ,eden1 and did he not know that this devil would tempt this ,adam and ,eve8 ,that in consequence of that they would fall8 ,that in consequence of that he would have to drown all their descendants except eight8 ,that in consequence of that he himself would have to be born into this world as a ,judean peasant8 ,that he would have to be crucified and suffer for the sins of these people who had been misled by this devil that he deliberately created1 and that after all he would be able only to save a few ,methodists8 ,will the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,hamlin have the goodness to answer this8 ,he can answer it as mildly as he pleases1 so that in any event it will be no advertisement for him4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,f4 ,j4 ,belcher pays me a great compliment1 for which ,i now return my thanks4 ,he has the goodness to say1 ,ingersoll in many respects is like ,voltaire4 ,i think no finer compliment has been paid me by any gentleman occupying a pulpit1 for many years1 and again ,i thank the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,belcher4 ,the ,rev4 ,w4 ,d4 ,buchanan1 does not seem to be quite fair4 ,he says that every utterance of mine impresses men with my insincerity1 and that every argument ,i bring forward is specious1 and that ,i spend my time in ringing the changes on arguments that have been answered over and over again for hundreds of years4 ,now1 ,dr4 ,buchanan should remember that he ought not to attack motives2 that you cannot answer an argument by vilifying the man who makes it4 ,you must answer not the man1 but the argument4 ,another thing this reverend gentleman should remember1 and that is that no argument is old until it has been answered4 ,an argument that has not been answered1 although it has been put forward for many centuries1 is still as fresh as a flower with the dew on its breast4 ,it never is old until it has been answered4 ,it is well enough for this gentleman to say that these arguments have been answered1 and if they have and he knows that they have1 of course it will be but a little trouble to him to repeat these answers4 ,now1 my dear ,dr4 ,buchanan1 ,i wish to ask you some questions4 ,do you believe in a personal devil8 ,do you believe that the bodies of men and women become tenements for little imps and goblins and demons8 ,do you believe that the devil used to lead men and women astray8 ,do you believe the stories about devils that you find in the ,old and ,new ,testaments8 ,now1 do not tell me that these questions have been answered long ago4 ,answer them now4 ,and if you say the devil does exist1 that he is a person1 that he is an enemy of ,god1 then let me ask you another question3 ,why should this devil punish souls in hell for rebelling against ,god8 ,why should the devil1 who is an enemy of ,god1 help punish ,god's enemies8 ,this may have been answered many times1 but one more repetition will do but little harm4 ,another thing3 ,do you believe in the eternity of punishment8 ,do you believe that ,god is the keeper of an eternal prison1 the doors of which open only to receive sinners1 and do you believe that eternal punishment is the highest expression of justice and mercy8 ,if you had the power to change a stone into a human being1 and you knew that that human being would be a sinner and finally go to hell and suffer eternal torture1 would you not leave it stone8 ,and if1 knowing this1 you changed the stone into a man1 would you not be a fiend8 ,now1 answer this fairly4 ,i want nothing spiritual2 nothing with the ,presbyterian flavor2 just good1 honest talk1 and tell us how that is4 ,i say to you that if there is a place of eternal torment or misery for any of the children of men--,i say to you that your ,god is a wild beast1 an insane fiend1 whom ,i abhor and despise with every drop of my blood4 ,at the same time you may say whether you are up1 according to ,dr4 ,mac ,arthur1 with the religious thinking of the hour4 ,the ,rev4 ,j4 ,w4 ,campbell ,i rather like4 ,he appears to be absolutely sincere4 ,he is orthodox--true blue4 ,he believes in a devil2 in an acting1 thinking devil1 and a clever devil4 ,of course he does not think this devil is as stout as ,god1 but he is quicker2 not quite as wise1 but a little more cunning4 ,according to ,mr4 ,campbell1 the devil is the bunco steerer of the universe--king of the green goods men2 but1 after all1 ,mr4 ,campbell will not admit that if this devil does not exist the ,christian creeds all crumble1 but ,i think he will admit that if the devil does not exist1 then ,christ was mistaken1 or that the writers of the ,new ,testament did not truthfully give us his utterances4 ,now1 if ,christ was mistaken about the existence of the devil1 may be he was mistaken about the existence of ,god4 ,in other words1 if ,christ made a mistake1 then he was ignorant4 ,then we cannot say he was divine1 although ignorance has generally believed in divinity4 ,so ,i do not see exactly how ,mr4 ,campbell can say that if the devil does not exist the ,christian creeds do not crumble1 and when ,i say ,christian creeds ,i mean orthodox creeds4 ,is there any orthodox ,christian creed without the devil in it8 ,now1 if we throw away the devil we throw away original sin1 the fall of man1 and we throw away the atonement4 ,of this arch the devil is the keystone4 ,remove him1 the arch falls4 ,now1 how can you say that an orthodox ,christian creed remains intact without crumbling when original sin1 the fall of man1 the atonement and the existence of the devil are all thrown aside8 ,of course if you mean by ,christianity1 acting like ,christ1 being good1 forgiving1 that is another matter1 but that is not ,christianity4 ,orthodox ,christians say that a man must believe on ,christ1 must have faith1 and that to act as ,christ did1 is not enough2 that a man who acts exactly as ,christ did1 dying without faith1 would go to hell4 ,so when ,mr4 ,campbell speaks of a ,christian1 ,i suppose he means an orthodox ,christian4 ,now1 ,dr4 ,campbell not only knows that the devil exists1 but he knows a good deal about him4 ,he knows that he can assume every conceivable disguise or shape2 that he can go about like a roaring lion2 that at another time he is a god of this world2 on another occasion a dragon1 and in the afternoon of the same day may be ,lucifer1 an angel of light1 and all the time1 ,i guess1 a prince of lies4 ,so he often assumes the disguise of the serpent4 ,so the ,doctor thinks that when the devil invited ,christ into the wilderness to tempt him1 that he adopted some disguise that made him more than usually attractive4 ,does the ,doctor think that ,christ could not see through the disguise8 ,was it possible for the devil with a mask to fool ,god1 his creator8 ,was it possible for the devil to tempt ,christ by offering him the kingdoms of the earth when they already belonged to ,christ1 and when ,christ knew that the devil had no title1 and when the devil knew that ,christ knew that he had no title1 and when the devil knew that ,christ knew that he was the devil1 and when the devil knew that he was ,christ8 ,does the reverend gentleman still think that it was the disguise of the devil that tempted ,christ8 ,i would like some of these questions answered1 because ,i have a very inquiring mind4 ,so ,mr4 ,campbell tells us--and it is very good and comforting of him--that there is a time coming when the devil shall deceive the nations no more4 ,he also tells us that ,god is more powerful than the devil1 and that he is going to put an end to him4 ,will ,mr4 ,campbell have the goodness to tell me why ,god made the devil8 ,if he is going to put an end to him why did he start him8 ,was it not a waste of raw material to make him8 ,was it not unfair to let this devil1 so powerful1 so cunning1 so attractive1 into the ,garden of ,eden1 and put ,adam and ,eve1 who were then scarcely half dry1 within his power1 and not only ,adam and ,eve within his power1 but their descendants1 so that the slime of the serpent has been on every babe1 and so that1 in consequence of what happened in the ,garden of ,eden1 flames will surround countless millions in the presence of the most merciful ,god8 ,now1 it may be that the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,campbell can explain all these things4 ,he may not care to do it for my benefit1 but let him think of his own congregation2 of the lambs he is protecting from the wolves of doubt and thought4 ,the ,rev4 ,henry ,frank appears to be a man of exceedingly good sense2 one who thinks for himself1 and who has the courage of his convictions4 ,of course ,i am sorry that he does not agree with me1 but ,i have become used to that1 and so ,i thank him for the truths he utters4 ,he does not believe in the existence of a personal devil1 and ,i guess by following him up we would find that he did not believe in the existence of a personal ,god1 or in the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,in fact1 he tells us that he has given up the infallibility of the ,bible4 ,at the same time1 he says it is the most perfect compendium of religious and moral thought4 ,in that ,i think he is a little mistaken4 ,there is a vast deal of irreligion in the ,bible1 and there is a good deal of immoral thought in the ,bible2 but ,i agree with him that it is neither inspired nor infallible4 ,the ,rev4 ,e4 ,c4 ,j4 ,kraeling1 pastor of the ,zion ,lutheran ,church1 declares that those who do not believe in a personal ,god do not believe in a personal ,satan1 and vice versa4 ,the one1 he says1 necessitates the other4 ,in this ,i do not think he is quite correct4 ,i think many people believe in a personal ,god who do not believe in a personal devil1 but ,i know of none who do believe in a personal devil who do not also believe in a personal ,god4 ,the orthodox generally believe in both of them1 and for many centuries ,christians spoke with great respect of the devil4 ,they were afraid of him4 ,but ,i agree with the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,kraeling when he says that to deny a personal ,satan is to deny the infallibility of ,god's word4 ,i agree with this because ,i suppose by ,god's word he means the ,bible4 ,he further says1 and ,i agree with him1 that a ,christian needs no scientific argument on which to base his belief in the personality of ,satan4 ,that certainly is true1 and if a ,christian does need a scientific argument it is equally true that he never will have one4 ,you see this word ,science means something that somebody knows2 not something that somebody guesses1 or wishes1 or hopes1 or believes1 but something that somebody knows4 ,of course there cannot be any scientific argument proving the existence of the devil4 ,at the same time ,i admit1 as the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,kraeling says1 and ,i thank him for his candor1 that the ,bible does prove the existence of the devil from ,genesis to the4 ,apocalypse1 and ,i do agree with him that the revealed word teaches the existence of a personal devil1 and that all truly orthodox ,christians believe that there is a personal devil1 and the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,kraeling proves this by the fall of man1 and he proves that without this devil there could be no redemption for the evil spirits2 so he brings forward the temptation of ,christ in the wilderness4 ,at the same time that ,mr4 ,kraeling agrees with me as to what the ,bible says1 he insists that ,i bring no arguments1 that ,i blaspheme1 and then he drops into humor and says that if any further arguments are needed to prove the existence of the devil1 that ,i furnish them4 ,how a man believing the creed of the orthodox ,mr4 ,kraeling can have anything like a sense of humor is beyond even my imagination4 ,now1 ,i want to ask ,mr4 ,kraeling a few questions1 and ,i will ask him the same questions that ,i ask all orthodox people in my lecture on ,superstition4 ,now1 ,mr4 ,kraeling believes that this world was created by a being of infinite wisdom1 power and goodness1 and that the world he created has been governed by him4 ,now1 let me ask the reverend gentleman a few plain questions1 with the request that he answer them without mist or mystery4 ,if you1 ,mr4 ,kraeling1 had the power to make a world1 would you make an exact copy of this8 ,would you make a man and woman1 put them in a garden1 knowing that they would be deceived1 knowing that they would fall8 ,knowing that all the consequences believed in by orthodox ,christians would follow from that fall8 ,would you do it8 ,and would you make your world so as to provide for earthquakes and cyclones8 ,would you create the seeds of disease and scatter them in the air and water8 ,would you so arrange matters as to produce cancers8 ,would you provide for plague and pestilence8 ,would you so make your world that life should feed on life1 that the quivering flesh should be torn by tooth and beak and claw8 ,would you8 ,now1 answer fairly4 ,do not quote ,scripture2 just answer1 and be honest4 ,would you make different races of men8 ,would you make them of different colors1 and would you so make them that they would persecute and enslave each other8 ,would you so arrange matters that millions and millions should toil through many generations1 paid only by the lash on the back8 ,would you have it so that millions and millions of babes would be sold from the breasts of mothers8 ,be honest1 would you provide for religious persecution8 ,for the invention and use of instruments of torture8 ,would you see to it that the rack was not forgotten1 and that the fagot was not overlooked or unlighted8 ,would you make a world in which the wrong would triumph8 ,would you make a world in which innocence would not be a shield8 ,would you make a world where the best would be loaded with chains8 ,where the best would die in the darkness of dungeons8 ,where the best would make scaffolds sacred with their blood8 ,would you make a world where hypocrisy and cunning and fraud should represent ,god1 and where meanness would suck the blood of honest credulity8 ,would you provide for the settlement of all difficulties by war8 ,would you so make your world that the weak would bear the burdens1 so that woman would be a slave1 so that children would be trampled upon as though they were poisonous reptiles8 ,would you fill the woods with wild beasts8 ,would you make a few volcanoes to overwhelm your children8 ,would you provide for earthquakes that would swallow them8 ,would you make them ignorant1 savage1 and fill their minds with all the phantoms of horror8 ,would you8 ,now1 it will only take you a few moments to answer these questions1 and if you say you would1 then ,i shall be satisfied that you believe in the orthodox ,god1 and that you are as bad as he4 ,if you say you would not1 ,i will admit that there is a little dawn of intelligence in your brain4 ,at the same time ,i want it understood with regard to all these ministers that ,i am a friend of theirs4 ,i am trying to civilize their congregations1 so that the congregations may allow the ministers to develop1 to grow1 to become really and truly intelligent4 ,the process is slow1 but it is sure4