,,the ,,works ,,of ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll ,there ,can ,be ,but ,little ,liberty ,on ,earth ,while ,men ,worship ,a ,tyrant ,in ,heaven4 ,in ,twelve ,volumes1 ,volume ,v4 ,,discussions #aijj ,,dresden ,,edition ,,contents ,,of ,,volume ,v4 ,,six ,,interviews ,,on ,,talmage4 7#ahhb47 ,preface--,first ,interview3 ,great ,men as ,witnesses to the ,truth of the ,gospel--,no man should quote the ,words of ,another unless he is willing to ,accept all the ,opinions of that ,man--,reasons of more ,weight than ,reputations--,would a general ,acceptance of ,unbelief fill the ,penitentiaries8-- ,my ,creed--,most ,criminals ,orthodox--,relig-ion and ,morality not ,necessarily ,associates--,on the ,creation of the ,universe out of ,omnipotence--,mr4 ,talmage's ,theory about the ,pro-duction of ,light prior to the ,creation of the ,sun--,the ,deluge and the ,ark--,mr4 ,talmage's tendency to ,belittle the ,bible ,miracles--,his ,chemical1 ,geological1 and ,agricultural ,views--,his ,disregard of ,good ,manners- -,second ,interview3 ,an ,insulting ,text--,god's ,design in ,creating ,guiteau to be the ,assassin of ,garfield--,mr4 ,talmage brings the ,charge of ,blasphemy--,some ,real ,blasphemers--,the ,tabernacle ,pastor tells the exact ,opposite of the ,truth about ,col4 ,ingersoll's ,attitude toward the ,circulation of ,immoral ,books--,assassinating ,god--,mr4 ,talmage finds ,nearly ,all the ,invention of ,modern ,times ,mentioned in the ,bible--,the ,reverend ,gentleman corrects the ,translators of the ,bible in the ,matter of the ,rib ,story--,denies that ,polygamy is permitted by the ,old ,testament--,his ,de-fence of ,queen ,victoria and ,violation of the ,grave of ,george ,eliot--,exhibits a ,christian ,spirit--,third ,interview3 ,mr4 ,talmage's ,partiality in the ,bestowal of his ,love--,denies the ,right of ,laymen to ,examine the ,scriptures--,thinks the ,infidels ,victims of ,bibliophobia --,he explains the ,stopping of the ,sun and ,moon at the ,command of ,joshua-- ,instances a ,dark ,day in the ,early ,part of the ,century--,charges that ,holy ,things are ,made ,light of--,reaffirms his ,confidence in the ,whale and ,jonah ,story--,the ,commandment which ,forbids the making of ,graven ,images--,affirmation that the ,bible is the ,friend of ,woman--,the ,present ,condition of ,woman--,fourth ,interview3 ,colonel ,ingersoll ,compared by ,mr4 ,talmage tojehoiakim1 who ,consigned ,writings of ,jeremiah to the ,flames--,an ,intimation that ,infidels wish to have all copies of the ,bible ,destroyed by ,fire--,laughter ,deprecated--,col4 ,ingersoll ,accused of ,denouncing his ,father--,mr4 ,talmage holds that a ,man may be ,perfectly ,happy in ,heaven with ,his ,mother in ,hell- -,challenges the ,infidel to ,read a ,chapter from ,st4 ,john--,on the ,chief ,solace of the ,world--,dis- covers an ,attempt is being made to ,put ,out the ,light-houses of the ,farther ,shore--,affirms our ,debt to ,christianity for ,schools1 ,hospitals1 etc4--,denies that ,infidels have ever ,done any ,good-- ,fifth ,interview3 ,inquiries if ,men gather ,grapes of ,thorns1 or ,figs of ,thistles1 and is ,answered in the ,negative--,resents the ,charge that the ,bible is a ,cruel ,book--,demands to ,know where the ,cruelty of the ,bible ,crops out in the ,lives of ,christians-- ,col4 ,ingersoll ,accused of saying that the ,bible is a ,collection of ,polluted ,writings--,mr4 ,talmage ,asserts the ,orchestral ,harmony of the ,scriptures from ,genesis to ,revelation1 and ,repudiates the ,theory of ,contradictions--,his ,view of ,mankind ,indicated in ,quotations from his ,confession of ,faith--,he ,insists that the ,bible is ,scientific-- ,traces the ,new ,testament to its ,source with ,st4 ,john--,pledges his ,word that no ,man ever ,died for a ,lie ,cheerfully and ,triumphantly--,as to ,prophecies and ,predictions--,alleged ,prophetic ,fate of the ,jewish ,people--,sixth ,interview3 ,dr4 ,talmage takes the ,ground that the ,unrivalled ,circulation of the ,bible ,proves that it is ,inspired--,forgets' that a ,scientific ,fact does not depend on the ,vote of ,numbers--,names some ,christian ,millions--,his ,arguments ,characterized as the ,poor-est1 ,weakest1 and ,best ,possible in ,support of the ,doctrine of ,inspira-tion--,will ,god1 in ,judging a ,man1 take into ,consideration the ,cir-cumstances of that ,man's ,life8--,satisfactory ,reasons for ,not ,believ- ing that the ,bible is inspired4 ,,the ,,talmagian ,,catechism4 ,the ,pith and ,marrow of what ,mr4 ,talmage has been ,pleased to ,say1 set forth in the form of a ,shorter ,catechism4 ,a ,,vindication ,,of ,,thomas ,,paine4 7#ahgg47 ,letter to the ,new ,york ,observer--,an ,offer to ,pay ,one ,thousand ,dollars in ,gold for ,proof that ,thomas ,paine or ,voltaire ,died in ,terror because of any ,religious ,opinions ,either had ,expressed-- ,proposition to ,create a ,tribunal to ,hear the ,evidence--,the ,ob-server1 after having ,called upon ,col4 ,ingersoll to ,deposit the ,money1 and ,characterized his ,talk as ,infidel ',buncombe1' ,denies its ,own ,words1 but attempts to ,prove them-- ,its ,memory ,refreshed by ,col4 ,ingersoll and the ,slander ,refuted--,proof that ,paine did ,not ,recant - -,testimony of ,thomas ,nixon1 ,daniel ,pelton1 ,mr4 ,jarvis1 ,b4 ,f4 ,has-kin1 ,dr4 ,manley1 ,amasa ,woodsworth1 ,gilbert ,vale1 ,philip ,graves1 ,m4 ,d41 ,willet ,hicks1 ,a4 ,c4 ,hankinson1 ,john ,hogeboom1 ,w4 ,j4 ,hilton1 ,tames ,cheetham1 ,revs4 ,milledollar and ,cunningham1 ,mrs4 ,hedden1 ,andrew ,a4 ,dean1 ,william ,carver1--,the ,statements of ,mary ,roscoe and ,mary ,hindsdale ,examined--,william ,cobbett's ,account of a ,call upon ,mary ,hinsdale--,did ,thomas ,paine live the ,life of a ,drunken ,beast1 and did he ,die a ,drunken1 ,cowardly1 and ,beastly ,death8--,grant ,thorbum's ,charges ,examined--,statement of the ,rev4 ,j4 ,d4 ,wickham1 ,d4,d41 shown to be ,utterly ,false--,false ,witness of the ,rev4 ,charles ,hawley1 ,d4,d4--,w4 ,h4 ,ladd1 ,james ,cheetham1 and ,mary ,hinsdale--,paine's ,note to ,cheetham--,mr-,staple1 ,mr4 ,purdy1 ,col4 ,john ,fellows1 ,james ,wilburn1 ,walter ,morton1 ,clio ,rickman1 ,judge ,herttell1 ,h4 ,margary1 ,elihu ,palmer1 ,mr4 ,,xv ,lovett1 all these ,testified that ,paine was a ,temperate ,man--,washington's ,letter to ,paine-- ,thomas ,jefferson's--,adams and ,washing-ton on ,common ,sense---,james ,monroe's ,tribute-- ,quotations from ,paine--,paine's ,estate and ,his ,will--,the ,observer's ,second ,attack 7p4 #dib73 ,statements of ,elkana ,watson1 ,william ,carver1 ,rev4 ,e4 ,f4 ,hatfield1 ,d4,d41 ,james ,cheetham1 ,dr4 ,j4 ,w4 ,francis1 ,dr4 ,manley1 ,bishop ,fenwick--,ingersoll's ,second ,reply 7p4 #eaf73 ,testimony ,garbled by the ,editor of the ,observer--,mary ,roscoeand ,mary ,hins- dale the ,same ,person--,her ,reputation for ,veracity- -,letter from ,rev4 ,a4 ,w4 ,cornell--,grant ,thorburn ,exposed by ,james ,parton--,the ,observer's ,admission that ,paine did not ,recant--,affidavit of ,william ,b4 ,barnes4 ,,preface4 ,,several people1 having read the sermons of ,mr4 ,talmage in which he reviews some of my lectures1 have advised me not to pay the slightest attention to the ,brooklyn divine4 ,they think that no new arguments have been brought forward1 and they have even gone so far as to say that some of the best of the old ones have been left out4 ,after thinking the matter over1 ,i became satisfied that my friends were mistaken1 that they had been car- ried away by the general current of modern thought1 and were not in a frame of mind to feel the force of the arguments of ,mr4 ,talmage1 or to clearly see the candor that characterizes his utterances4 ,at the first reading1 the logic of these sermons does not impress you4 ,the style is of a character calculated ,,vi to throw the searcher after facts and arguments off his guard4 ,the imagination of the preacher is so lurid2 he is so free from the ordinary forms of ex- pression2 his statements are so much stranger than truth1 and his conclusions so utterly independent of his premises1 that the reader is too astonished to be convinced4 ,not until ,i had read with great care the six discourses delivered for my benefit had ,i any clear and well-defined idea of the logical force of ,mr4 ,talmage4 ,i had but little conception of his candor1 was almost totally ignorant of his power to render the simple complex and the plain obscure by the mutilation of metaphor and the incoherence of inspired declamation4 ,neither did ,i know the generous accuracy with which he states the position of an opponent1 and the fairness he exhibits in a religious discussion4 ,he has without doubt studied the ,bible as closely and critically as he has the works of ,buckle and ,darwin1 and he seems to have paid as much attention to scientific subjects as most theologians4 ,his theory of light and his views upon geology are strikingly original1 and his astronomical theories are certainly as profound as practical4 ,if his statements can be relied upon1 he has successfully refuted the teachings of ,,vii ,humboldt and ,haeckel1 and exploded the blunders of ,spencer and ,tyndall4 ,besides all this1 he has the courage of his convictions--he does not quail before a fact1 and he does not strike his colors even to a dem- onstration4 ,he cares nothing for human experience4 ,he cannot be put down with statistics1 nor driven from his position by the certainties of science4 ,he cares neither for the persistence of force1 nor the indestructibility of matter4 ,he believes in the ,bible1 and he has the bravery to defend his belief4 ,in this1 he proudly stands almost alone4 ,he knows that the salvation of the world depends upon a belief in his creed4 ,he knows that what are called the sciences are of no importance in the other world4 ,he clearly sees that it is better to live and die ignorant here1 if you can wear a crown of glory hereafter4 ,he knows it is useless to be perfectly familiar with all the sciences in this world1 and then in the next lift up your eyes1 being in torment4 ,he knows1 too1 that ,god will not punish any man for denying a fact in science4 ,a man can deny the rotundity of the earth1 the attraction of gravitation1 the form of the earths orbit1 or the nebular hypothesis1 with perfect impunity4 ,he is not bound to be correct upon any philo- ,,viii sophical subject4 ,he is at liberty to deny and ridi- cule the rule of three1 conic sections1 and even the multiplication table4 ,god permits every human being to be mistaken upon every subject but one4 ,no man can lose his soul by denying physical facts4 ,jehovah does not take the slightest pride in his geology1 or in his astronomy1 or in mathematics1 or in any school of philosophy--he is jealous only of his reputation as the author of the ,bible4 ,you may deny everything else in the universe except that book4 ,this being so1 ,mr4 ,talmage takes the safe side1 and insists that the ,bible is inspired4 ,he knows that at the day of judgment1 not a scientific question will be asked4 ,he knows that the ,haeckels and ,huxleys will1 on that terrible day1 regret that they ever learned to read4 ,he knows that there is no saving grace in any department of human knowledge2 that mathematics and all the exact sciences and all the philosophies will be worse than useless4 ,he knows that inventors1 discoverers1 thinkers and investigators1 have no claim upon the mercy of ,jehovah2 that the educated will envy the ignorant1 and that the writers and thinkers will curse their books4 ,he knows that man cannot be saved through what he knows--but only by means of what he ,,ix believes4 ,theology is not a science4 ,if it were1 ,god would forgive his children for being mistaken about it4 ,if it could be proved like geology1 or astronomy1 there would be no merit in believing it4 ,from a belief in the ,bible1 ,mr4 ,talmage is not to be driven by uninspired evidence4 ,he knows that his logic is liable to lead him astray1 and that his reason cannot be depended upon4 ,he believes that scien- tific men are no authority in matters concerning which nothing can be known1 and he does not wish to put his soul in peril1 by examining by the light of reason1 the evidences of the supernatural4 ,he is perfectly consistent with his creed4 ,what happens to us here is of no consequence compared with eternal joy or pain4 ,the ambitions1 honors1 glories and triumphs of this world1 compared with eternal things1 are less than naught4 ,better a cross here and a crown there1 than a feast here and a fire there4 ,lazarus was far more fortunate than ,dives4 ,the purple and fine linen of this short life are as nothing compared with the robes of the redeemed4 ,mr4 ,talmage knows that philosophy is unsafe-- that the sciences are sirens luring souls to eternal wreck4 ,he knows that the deluded searchers after ,x facts are planting thorns in their own pillows--that the geologists are digging pits for themselves1 and that the astronomers are robbing their souls of the heaven they explore4 ,he knows that thought1 capa- city1 and intellectual courage are dangerous1 and this belief gives him a feeling of personal security4 ,the ,bible is adapted to the world as it is4 ,most people are ignorant1 and but few have the capacity to comprehend philosophical and scientific subjects1 and if salvation depended upon understanding even one of the sciences1 nearly everybody would be lost4 ,mr4 ,talmage sees that it was exceedingly merciful in ,god to base salvation on belief instead of on brain4 ,millions can believe1 while only a few can understand4 ,even the effort to understand is a kind of treason born of pride and ingratitude4 ,this being so1 it is far safer1 far better1 to be credulous than critical4 ,you are offered an infinite reward for believing the ,bible4 ,if you examine it you may find it impossible for you to believe it4 ,consequently1 examination is dangerous4 ,mr4 ,talmage knows that it is not necessary to under- stand the ,bible in order to believe it4 ,you must be- lieve it first4 ,then1 if on reading it you find anything that appears false1 absurd1 or impossible1 you may be sure that it is only an appearance1 and that the real ,,xi fault is in yourself4 ,it is certain that persons wholly incapable of reasoning are absolutely safe1 and that to be born brainless is to be saved in advance4 ,mr4 ,talmage takes the ground1--and certainly from his point of view nothing can be more reasonable --that thought should be avoided1 after one has experienced religion and has been the subject of regeneration4 ,every sinner should listen to ser- mons1 read religious books1 and keep thinking1 until he becomes a ,christian4 ,then he should stop4 ,after that1 thinking is not the road to heaven4 ,the real point and the real difficulty is to stop thinking just at the right time4 ,young ,christians1 who have no idea of what they are doing1 often go on thinking after joining the church1 and in this way heresy is born1 and heresy is often the father of infidelity4 ,if ,christians would follow the advice and example of ,mr4 ,talmage all disagreements about doctrine would be avoided4 ,in this way the church could secure absolute in- tellectual peace and all the disputes1 heartburnings1 jealousies and hatreds born of thought1 discussion and reasoning1 would be impossible4 ,in the estimation of ,mr4 ,talmage1 the man who doubts and examines is not fit for the society of angels4 ,there are no disputes1 no discussions in ,,xii heaven4 ,the angels do not think2 they believe1 they enjoy4 ,the highest form of religion is re- pression4 ,we should conquer the passions and destroy desire4 ,we should control the mind and stop thinking4 ,in this way we offer ourselves a living sacrifice1 holy1 acceptable unto ,god4 ,when desire dies1 when thought ceases1 we shall be pure4 --,this is heaven4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,washington1 ,d4 ,c1 ,april2 #ahhb4 ,,ingersoll',s ,,interviews ,,on ,,talmage4 ,,first ,,interview4 ,polonius4 ,my lord1 ,i will use them according to their desert4 ,hamlet4 ,god's bodikins1 man1 much better3 use every man after his desert1 and who should 'scape whipping8 ,use them after your own honor and dignity3 the less they deserve1 the more merit is in your bounty4 ,question4 ,have you read the sermon of ,mr4 ,talmage1 in which he exposes your mis- representations8 ,answer4 ,i have read such reports as appeared in some of the ,new ,york papers4 ,question4 ,what do you think of what he has to say8 ,answer4 ,some time ago ,i gave it as my opinion of ,mr4 ,talmage that1 while he was a man of most excellent judgment1 he was somewhat deficient in imagination4 ,i find that he has the disease that seems #af to afflict most theologians1 and that is1 a kind of intel- lectual toadyism1 that uses the names of supposed great men instead of arguments4 ,it is perfectly astonishing to the average preacher that any one should have the temerity to differ1 on the subject of theology1 with ,andrew ,jackson1 ,daniel ,webster1 and other gentlemen eminent for piety during their lives1 but who1 as a rule1 expressed their theological opinions a few minutes before dissolution4 ,these ministers are per- fectly delighted to have some great politician1 some judge1 soldier1 or president1 certify to the truth of the ,bible and to the moral character of ,jesus ,christ4 ,mr4 ,talmage insists that if a witness is false in one particular1 his entire testimony must be thrown away4 ,daniel ,webster was in favor of the ,fugitive ,slave ,law1 and thought it the duty of the ,north to capture the poor slave-mother4 ,he was willing to stand between a human being and his freedom4 ,he was willing to assist in compelling persons to work without any pay except such marks of the lash as they might receive4 ,yet this man is brought forward as a witness for the truth of the gospel4 ,if he was false in his testimony as to liberty1 what is his affidavit worth as to the value of ,christianity8 ,andrew ,jackson was a brave man1 a good general1 a patriot second to none1 #ag an excellent judge of horses1 and a brave duelist4 ,i admit that in his old age he relied considerably upon the atonement4 ,i think ,jackson was really a very great man1 and probably no ,president impressed himself more deeply upon the ,american people than the hero of ,new ,orleans1 but as a theologian he was1 in my judgment1 a most decided failure1 and his opinion as to the authenticity of the ,scriptures is of no earthly value4 ,it was a subject upon which he knew probably as little as ,mr4 ,talmage does about modern infidelity4 ,thousands of people will quote ,jackson in favor of religion1 about which he knew nothing1 and yet have no confidence in his political opinions1 although he devoted the best part of his life to politics4 ,no man should quote the words of another1 in place of an argument1 unless he is willing to accept all the opinions of that man4 ,lord ,bacon denied the ,copernican system of astronomy1 and1 according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 having made that mistake1 his opinions upon other subjects are equally worthless4 ,mr4 ,wesley believed in ghosts1 witches1 and personal devils1 yet upon many subjects ,i have no doubt his opinions were correct4 ,the truth is1 that nearly everybody is right about some things and wrong about most things2 and if a man's testimony is not to be taken until he is #ah right on every subject1 witnesses will be extremely scarce4 ,personally1 ,i care nothing about names4 ,it makes no difference to me what the supposed great men of the past have said1 except as what they have said contains an argument2 and that argument is worth to me the force it naturally has upon my mind4 ,chris- tians forget that in the realm of reason there are no serfs and no monarchs4 ,when you submit to an argument1 you do not submit to the man who made it4 ,christianity demands a certain obedience1 a certain blind1 unreasoning faith1 and parades before the eyes of the ignorant1 with great pomp and pride1 the names of kings1 soldiers1 and statesmen who have admitted the truth of the ,bible4 ,mr4 ,talmage introduces as a witness the ,rev4 ,theodore ,parker4 ,this same ,the- odore ,parker denounced the ,presbyterian creed as the most infamous of all creeds1 and said that the worst heathen god1 wearing a necklace of live snakes1 was a representation of mercy when compared with the ,god of ,john ,calvin4 ,now1 if this witness is false in any particular1 of course he cannot be believed1 according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 upon any subject1 and yet ,mr4 ,talmage introduces him upon the stand as a good witness4 #ai ,although ,i care but little for names1 still ,i will sug- gest that1 in all probability1 ,humboldt knew more upon this subject than all the pastors in the world4 ,i cer- tainly would have as much confidence in the opinion of ,goethe as in that of ,william ,h4 ,seward2 and as between ,seward and ,lincoln1 ,i should take ,lincoln2 and when you come to ,presidents1 for my part1 if ,i were compelled to pin my faith on the sleeve of any- body1 ,i should take ,jefferson's coat in preference to ,jackson's4 ,i believe that ,haeckel is1 to say the least1 the equal of any theologian we have in this country1 and the late ,john ,w4 ,draper certainly knew as much upon these great questions as the average parson4 ,i believe that ,darwin has investigated some of these things1 that ,tyndall and ,huxley have turned their minds somewhat in the same direction1 that ,helmholtz has a few opinions1 and that1 in fact1 thousands of able1 intelligent and honest men differ almost entirely with ,webster and ,jackson4 ,so far as ,i am concerned1 ,i think more of reasons than of reputations1 more of principles than of persons1 more of nature than of names1 more of facts1 than of faiths4 ,it is the same with books as with persons4 ,proba- bly there is not a book in the world entirely destitute #bj of truth1 and not one entirely exempt from error4 ,the ,bible is like other books4 ,there are mistakes in it1 side by side with truths1--passages inculcating murder1 and others exalting mercy2 laws devilish and tyrannical1 and others filled with wisdom and justice4 ,it is foolish to say that if you accept a part1 you must accept the whole4 ,you must accept that which com- mends itself to your heart and brain4 ,there never was a doctrine that a witness1 or a book1 should be thrown entirely away1 because false in one particular4 ,if in any particular the book1 or the man1 tells the truth1 to that extent the truth should be accepted4 ,truth is made no worse by the one who tells it1 and a lie gets no real benefit from the reputation of its author4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the statement that a general belief in your teachings would fill all the penitentiaries1 and that in twenty years there would be a hell in this world worse than the one expected in the other8 ,answer4 ,my creed is this3 #a4 ,happiness is the only good4 #b4 ,the way to be happy1 is to make others happy4 #ba ,other things being equal1 that man is happiest who is nearest just--who is truthful1 merciful and intelligent-- in other words1 the one who lives in accordance with the conditions of life4 #c4 ,the time to be happy is now1 and the place to be happy1 is here4 #d4 ,reason is the lamp of the mind--the only torch of progress2 and instead of blowing that out and de- pending upon darkness and dogma1 it is far better to increase that sacred light4 #e4 ,every man should be the intellectual proprietor of himself1 honest with himself1 and intellectually hospitable2 and upon every brain reason should be enthroned as king4 #f4 ,every man must bear the consequences1 at least of his own actions4 ,if he puts his hands in the fire1 his hands must smart1 and not the hands of another4 ,in other words3 each man must eat the fruit of the tree he plants4 ,i can not conceive that the teaching of these doc- trines would fill penitentiaries1 or crowd the gallows4 ,the doctrine of forgiveness--the idea that somebody else can suffer in place of the guilty--the notion that just at the last the whole account can be settled-- these ideas1 doctrines1 and notions are calculated to fill #bb penitentiaries4 ,nothing breeds extravagance like the credit system4 ,most criminals of the present day are orthodox be- lievers1 and the gallows seems to be the last round of the ladder reaching from earth to heaven4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,sunderland1 of this city1 in his sermon on the assas- sination of ,garfield1 takes the ground that ,god per- mitted the murder for the purpose of opening the eyes of the people to the evil effects of infidelity4 ,accord- ing to this minister1 ,god1 in order to show his hatred of infidelity1 inspired1 or allowed1 one ,christian to assassinate another4 ,religion and morality do not necessarily go together4 ,mr4 ,talmage will insist to-day that morality is not sufficient to save any man from eternal punishment4 ,as a matter of fact1 religion has often been the enemy of morality4 ,the moralist has been denounced by the theologians4 ,he sustains the same relation to ,chris- tianity that the moderate drinker does to the total- abstinence society4 ,the total-abstinence people say that the example of the moderate drinker is far worse upon the young than that of the drunkard--that the drunkard is a warning1 while the moderate drinker is a perpetual temptation4 ,so ,christians say of moral- ists4 ,according to them1 the moralist sets a worse #bc example than the criminal4 ,the moralist not only in- sists that a man can be a good citizen1 a kind husband1 an affectionate father1 without religion1 but demon- strates the truth of his doctrine by his own life2 whereas the criminal admits that in and of himself he is nothing1 and can do nothing1 but that he needs assistance from the church and its ministers4 ,the worst criminals of the modern world have been ,christians--,i mean by that1 believers in ,christianity-- and the most monstrous crimes of the modern world have been committed by the most zealous believers4 ,there is nothing in orthodox religion1 apart from the morality it teaches1 to prevent the commission o,f crime4 ,on the other hand1 the perpetual proffer of forgiveness is a direct premium upon what ,christians are pleased to call the commission of sin4 ,christianity has produced no greater character than ,epictetus1 no greater sovereign than ,marcus ,aurelius4 ,the wickedness of the past was a good deal like that of the present4 ,as a rule1 kings have been wicked in direct proportion to their power--their power having been lessened1 their crimes have decreased4 ,as a matter of fact1 paganism1 of itself1 did not produce any great men2 neither has ,christianity4 ,millions of in- fluences determine individual character1 and the re- #bd ligion of the country in which a man happens to be born may determine many of his opinions1 without influencing1 to any great extent1 his real character4 ,there have been brave1 honest1 and intelligent men in and out of every church4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage says that you insist that1 according to the ,bible1 the universe was made out of nothing1 and he denounces your statement as a gross misrepresentation4 ,what have you stated upon that subject8 ,answer4 ,what ,i said was substantially this3 ,we are told in the first chapter of ,genesis1 that in the beginning ,god created the heaven and the earth4 ,if this means anything1 it means that ,god pro- duced--caused to exist1 called into being--the heaven and the earth4 ,it will not do to say that ,god formed the heaven and the earth of previously existing matter4 ,moses conveys1 and intended to convey1 the idea that the matter of which the universe is composed was created4 ,this has always been my position4 ,i did not sup- pose that nothing was used as the raw material2 but if the ,mosaic account means anything1 it means that whereas there was nothing1 ,god caused something to #be exist--created what we know as matter4 ,i can not conceive of something being made1 created1 without anything to make anything with4 ,i have no more confidence in fiat worlds than ,i have in fiat money4 ,mr4 ,talmage tells us that ,god did not make the uni- verse out of nothing1 but out of omnipotence4 ,exactly how ,god changed omnipotence into matter is not stated4 ,if there was nothing in the universe1 omnipotence could do you no good4 ,the weakest man in the world can lift as much nothing as ,god4 ,mr4 ,talmage seems to think that to create something from nothing is simply a question of strength--that it requires infinite muscle--that it is only a question of biceps4 ,of course1 omnipotence is an attribute1 not an entity1 not a raw material2 and the idea that something can be made out of omnipotence--using that as the raw material--is infinitely absurd4 ,it would have been equally logical to say that ,god made the universe out of his omniscience1 or his omnipresence1 or his unchangeableness1 or out of his honesty1 his holiness1 or his incapacity to do evil4 ,i confess my utter in- ability to understand1 or even to suspect1 what the reverend gentleman means1 when he says that ,god created the universe out of his omnipotence4 ,i admit that the ,bible does not tell when ,god created #bf the universe4 ,it is simply said that he did this in the beginning4 ,we are left1 however1 to infer that the beginning was ,monday morning1 and that on the first ,monday ,god created the matter in an exceedingly chaotic state2 that on ,tuesday he made a firmament to divide the waters from the waters2 that on ,wednes- day he gathered the waters together in seas and allowed the dry land to appear4 ,we are also told that on that day the earth brought forth grass and herb yielding seed after his kind1 and the tree yielding fruit1 whose seed was in itself1 after his kind4 ,this was before the creation of the sun1 but ,mr4 ,talmage takes the ground that there are many other sources of light2 that there may have been volcanoes in active operation on other planets4 ,i have my doubts1 however1 about the light of volcanoes being sufficient to produce or sustain vegetable life1 and think it a little doubtful about trees growing only by volcanic glare4 ,neither do ,i think one could depend upon three thousand miles of liquid granite for the pro- duction of grass and trees1 nor upon light that rocks might emit in the process of crystallization4 ,i doubt whether trees would succeed simply with the assistance of the ,aurora ,borealis or the ,aurora ,australis4 ,there are other sources of light1 not mentioned by #bg ,mr4 ,talmage--lightning-bugs1 phosphorescent beetles1 and fox-fire4 ,i should think that it would be humili- ating1 in this age1 for an orthodox preacher to insist that vegetation could exist upon this planet without the light of the sun--that trees could grow1 blossom and bear fruit1 having no light but the flames of volcanoes1 or that emitted by liquid granite1 or thrown off by the crystallization of rocks4 ,there is another thing1 also1 that should not be for- gotten1 and that is1 that there is an even balance for- ever kept between the totals of animal and vegetable life--that certain forms of animal life go with certain forms of vegetable life4 ,mr4 ,haeckel has shown that in the first epoch1 algae and skull-less vertebrates were found together2 in the second1 ferns and fishes2 in the third1 pines and reptiles2 in the fourth1 foliaceous forests and mammals4 ,vegetable and animal life sustain a necessary relation2 they exist together2 they act and interact1 and each depends upon the other4 ,the real point of difference between ,mr4 ,talmage and myself is this3 ,he says that ,god made the universe out of his omnipotence1 and ,i say that1 although ,i know nothing whatever upon the subject1 my opinion is1 that the universe has existed from eternity--that it continually changes in form1 but that it never was #bh created or called into being by any power4 ,i think that all that is1 is all the ,god there is4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage charges you with having misrepresented the ,bible story of the deluge4 ,has he correctly stated your position8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,talmage takes the ground that the flood was only partial1 and was1 after all1 not much of a flood4 ,the ,bible tells us that ,god said he would destroy all flesh wherein is the breath of life from under heaven1 and that everything that is in the earth shall die2 that ,god also said3 ,i will destroy man1 whom ,i have created1 from the face of the earth2 both man and beast and the creeping thing and the fowls of the air1 and every living substance that ,i have made will ,i destroy from off the face of the earth4 ,i did not suppose that there was any miracle in the ,bible larger than the credulity of ,mr4 ,talmage4 ,the flood story1 however1 seems to be a little more than he can bear4 ,he is like the witness who stated that he had read ,gullivers ,travels1 the ,stories of ,mun- chausen1 and the ,flying ,wife1 including ,robinson ,crusoe1 and believed them all2 but that ,wirt's ,life of ,patrick ,henry was a litde more than he could stand4 #bi ,it is strange that a man who believes that ,god created the universe out of omnipotence should believe that he had not enough omnipotence left to drown a world the size of this4 ,mr4 ,talmage seeks to make the story of the flood reasonable4 ,the moment it is reasonable1 it ceases to be miraculous4 ,certainly ,god cannot afford to reward a man with eternal joy for believing a reasonable story4 ,faith is only necessary when the story is unreasonable1 and if the flood only gets small enough1 ,i can believe it myself4 ,i ask for evidence1 and ,mr4 ,talmage seeks to make the story so little that it can be believed without evidence4 ,he tells us that it was a kind of local option flood--a little wet for that part of the country4 ,why was it necessary to save the birds8 ,they certainly could have gotten out of the way of a real small flood4 ,of the birds1 ,noah took fourteen of each species4 ,he was commanded to take of the fowls of the air by sevens--seven of each sex--and1 as there are at least #ab1ejj species1 ,noah collected an aviary of about #age1jjj birds1 provided the flood was general4 ,if it was local1 there are no means of determining the number4 ,but why1 if the flood was local1 should he have taken any of the fowls of the air into his ark8 #cj ,all they had to do was to fly away1 or roost high2 and it would have been just as easy for ,god to have implanted in them1 for the moment1 the instinct of getting out of the way as the instinct of hunting the ark4 ,it would have been quite a saving of room and pro- visions1 and would have materially lessened the labor and anxiety of ,noah and his sons4 ,besides1 if it had been a partial flood1 and great enough to cover the highest mountains in that country1 the highest mountain being about seventeen thousand feet1 the flood would have been covered with a sheet of ice several thousand feet in thickness4 ,if a column of water could have been thrown seventeen thousand feet high and kept stationary1 several thousand feet of the upper end would have frozen4 ,if1 however1 the deluge was general1 then the atmosphere would have been forced out the same on all sides1 and the climate remained substantially normal4 ,nothing can be more absurd than to attempt to explain the flood by calling it partial4 ,mr4 ,talmage also says that the window ran clear round the ark1 and that if ,i had only known as much ,hebrew as a man could put on his little finger1 ,i would have known that the window went clear round4 ,to this ,i reply that1 if his position is correct1 then the #ca original translators of ,king ,james' edition did not know as much ,hebrew as they could have put on their little fingers2 and yet ,i am obliged to believe their translation or be eternally damned4 ,if the window went clear round1 the inspired writer should have said so1 and the learned translators should have given us the truth4 ,no one pretends that there was more than one door1 and yet the same language is used about the door1 except this--that the exact size of the window is given1 and the only peculiarity men- tioned as to the door is that it shut from the outside4 ,for any one to see that ,mr4 ,talmage is wrong on the window question1 it is only necessary to read the story of the deluge4 ,mr4 ,talmage also endeavors to decrease the depth of the flood4 ,if the flood did not cover the highest hills1 many people might have been saved4 ,he also insists that all the water did not come from the rains1 but that the fountains of the great deep were broken up4 ,what are the fountains of the great deep8 ,how would their being broken up increase the depth of the water8 ,he seems to imagine that these fountains were in some way imprisoned--anxious to get to the surface1 and that1 at that time1 an oppor- tunity was given for water to run up hill1 or in some #cb mysterious way to rise above its level4 ,according to the account1 the ark was at the mercy of the waves for at least seven months4 ,if this flood was only partial1 it seems a little curious that the water did not seek its level in less than seven months4 ,with anything like a fair chance1 by that time most of it would have found its way to the sea again4 ,there is in the literature of ignorance no more perfectly absurd and cruel story than that of the deluge4 ,i am very sorry that ,mr4 ,talmage should disagree with some of the great commentators4 ,dr4 ,scott tells us that1 in all probability1 the angels assisted in getting the animals into the ark4 ,dr4 ,henry insists that the waters in the bowels of the earth1 at ,god's command1 sprung up and flooded the earth4 ,dr4 ,clark tells us that it would have been much easier for ,god to have destroyed all the people and made some new ones1 but that he did not want to waste anything4 ,dr4 ,henry also tells us that the lions1 while in the ark1 ate straw like oxen4 ,nothing could be more amusing than to see a few lions eating good1 dry straw4 ,this commentator assures us that the waters rose so high that the loftiest mountains were overflowed fifteen cubits1 so that salvation was not #cc hoped for from any hills or mountains4 ,he tells us that some of the people got on top of the ark1 and hoped to shift for themselves1 but that1 in all proba- bility1 they were washed off by the rain4 ,when we consider that the rain must have fallen at the rate of about eight hundred feet a day1 ,i am inclined to think that they were washed off4 ,mr4 ,talmage has clearly misrepresented the ,bible4 ,he is not prepared to believe the story as it is told4 ,the seeds of infidelity seem to be germinating in his mind4 ,his position no doubt will be a great relief to most of his hearers4 ,after this1 their credulity will not be strained4 ,they can say that there was probably quite a storm1 some rain1 to an extent that rendered it necessary for ,noah and his family--his dogs1 cats1 and chickens--to get in a boat4 ,this would not be unreasonable4 ,the same thing happens almost every year on the shores of great rivers1 and consequently the story of the flood is an exceedingly reasonable one4 ,mr4 ,talmage also endeavors to account for the miraculous collection of the animals in the ark by the universal instinct to get out of the rain4 ,there are at least two objections to this3 #a4 ,the animals went into the ark before the rain commenced2 #b4 ,i #cd have never noticed any great desire on the part of ducks1 geese1 and loons to get out of the water4 ,mr4 ,talmage must have been misled by a line from an old nursery book that says3 ,and the little fishes got under the bridge to keep out of the rain4 ,he tells us that ,noah described what he saw4 ,he is the first theologian who claims that ,genesis was written by ,noah1 or that ,noah wrote any account of the flood4 ,most ,christians insist that the account of the flood was written by ,moses1 and that he was inspired to write it4 ,of course1 it will not do for me to say that ,mr4 ,talmage has misrepresented the facts4 ,question4 ,you are also charged with misrepresen- tation in your statement as to where the ark at last rested4 ,it is claimed by ,mr4 ,talmage that there is nothing in the ,bible to show that the ark rested on the highest mountains4 ,answer4 ,of course ,i have no knowledge as to where the ark really came to anchor1 but after it struck bottom1 we are told that a dove was sent out1 and that the dove found no place whereon to rest her foot4 ,if the ark touched ground in the low country1 surely the mountains were out of water1 and an or- dinary mountain furnishes1 as a rule1 space enough #ce for a dove's foot4 ,we must infer that the ark rested on the only land then above water1 or near enough above water to strike the keel of ,noah's boat4 ,mount ,ararat is about seventeen thousand feet high2 so ,i take it that the top of that mountain was where ,noah ran aground--otherwise1 the account means nothing4 ,here ,mr4 ,talmage again shows his tendency to belittle the miracles of the ,bible4 ,i am astonished that he should doubt the power of ,god to keep an ark on a mountain seventeen thousand feet high4 ,he could have changed the climate for that occasion4 ,he could have made all the rocks and glaciers pro- duce wheat and corn in abundance4 ,certainly ,god1 who could overwhelm a world with a flood1 had the power to change every law and fact in nature4 ,i am surprised that ,mr4 ,talmage is not willing to believe the story as it is told4 ,what right has he to question the statements of an inspired writer8 ,why should he set up his judgment against the ,websters and ,jacksons8 ,is it not infinitely impudent in him to contrast his penny-dip with the sun of inspiration8 ,what right has he to any opinion upon the subject8 ,he must take the ,bible as it reads4 ,he should remember that the greater the miracle the greater should be his faith4 #cf ,question4 ,you do not seem to have any great opinion of the chemical1 geological1 and agricultural views expressed by ,mr4 ,talmage8 ,answer4 ,you must remember that ,mr4 ,talmage has a certain thing to defend4 ,he takes the ,bible as actually true1 and with the ,bible as his standard1 he compares and measures all sciences4 ,he does not study geology to find whether the ,mosaic account is true1 but he reads the ,mosaic account for the purpose of showing that geology can not be depended upon4 ,his idea that one day is as a thousand years with ,god1 and that therefore the days mentioned in the ,mosaic account are not days of twenty-four hours1 but long periods1 is contradicted by the ,bible itself4 ,the great reason given for keeping the ,sabbath day is1 that ,god rested on the seventh day and was refreshed4 ,now1 it does not say that he rested on the seventh period1 or the seventh good--while1 or the seventh long-time1 but on the seventh day4 ,in imitation of this example we are also to rest--not on the seventh good-while1 but on the seventh day4 ,nothing delights the average minister more than to find that a passage of ,scripture is capable of several interpretations4 ,nothing in the inspired book is so #cg dangerous as accuracy4 ,if the holy writer uses general terms1 an ingenious theologian can harmonize a seemingly preposterous statement with the most obdurate fact4 ,an inspired book should contain neither statistics nor dates--as few names as possible1 and not one word about geology or astronomy4 ,mr4 ,talmage is doing the best he can to uphold the fables of the ,jews4 ,they are the foundation of his faith4 ,he believes in the water of the past and the fire of the future--in the ,god of flood and flame--the eternal torturer of his helpless children4 ,it is exceedingly unfortunate that ,mr4 ,talmage does not appreciate the importance of good manners1 that he does not rightly estimate the convincing power of kindness and good nature4 ,it is unfortunate that a ,christian1 believing in universal forgiveness1 should exhibit so much of the spirit of detraction1 that he should run so easily and naturally into epithets1 and that he should mistake vituperation for logic4 ,thou- sands of people1 knowing but little of the mysteries of ,christianity--never having studied theology1--may become prejudiced against the church1 and doubt the divine origin of a religion whose defenders seem to rely1 at least to a great degree1 upon malignant per- sonalities4 ,mr4 ,talmage should remember that in a #ch discussion of this kind1 he is supposed to represent a being of infinite wisdom and goodness4 ,surely1 the representative of the infinite can afford to be candid1 can afford to be kind4 ,when he contemplates the condition of a fellow-being destitute of religion1 a fellow-being now travelling the thorny path to eternal fire1 he should be filled with pity instead of hate4 ,instead of deforming his mouth with scorn1 his eyes should be filled with tears4 ,he should take into consideration the vast difference between an infidel and a minister of the gospel1--knowing1 as he does1 that a crown of glory has been prepared for the minister1 and that flames are waiting for the soul of the unbeliever4 ,he should bear with philosophic fortitude the apparent success of the skeptic1 for a few days in this brief life1 since he knows that in a little while the question will be eternally settled in his favor1 and that the humiliation of a day is as nothing compared with the victory of eternity4 ,in this world1 the skeptic appears to have the best of the argument2 logic seems to be on the side of blasphemy2 common sense apparently goes hand in hand with infidelity1 and the few things we are absolutely certain of1 seem inconsistent with the ,christian creeds4 #ci ,this1 however1 as ,mr4 ,talmage well knows1 is but apparent4 ,god has arranged the world in this way for the purpose of testing the ,christian's faith4 ,beyond all these facts1 beyond logic1 beyond reason1 ,mr4 ,talmage1 by the light of faith1 clearly sees the eternal truth4 ,this clearness of vision should give him the serenity of candor and the kindness born of absolute knowledge4 ,he1 being a child of the light1 should not expect the perfect from the children of darkness4 ,he should not judge ,humboldt and ,wesley by the same standard4 ,he should remember that ,wesley was especially set apart and illuminated by divine wisdom1 while ,humboldt was left to grope in the shadows of nature4 ,he should also remember that ministers are not like other people4 ,they have been called4 ,they have been chosen by infinite wisdom4 ,they have been set apart1 and they have bread to eat that we know not of4 ,while other people are forced to pursue the difficult paths of investigation1 they fly with the wings of faith4 ,mr4 ,talmage is perfectly aware of the advantages he enjoys1 and yet he deems it dangerous to be fair4 ,this1 in my judgment1 is his mistake4 ,if he cannot easily point out the absurdities and contradictions in infidel lectures1 surely ,god would never have selected #dj him for that task4 ,we cannot believe that imperfect instruments would be chosen by infinite wisdom4 ,certain lambs have been entrusted to the care of ,mr4 ,talmage1 the shepherd4 ,certainly ,god would not select a shepherd unable to cope with an average wolf4 ,such a shepherd is only the appearance of protection4 ,when the wolf is not there1 he is a useless expense1 and when the wolf comes1 he goes4 ,i cannot believe that ,god would select a shepherd of that kind4 ,neither can the shepherd justify his selection by abusing the wolf when out of sight4 ,the fear ought to be on the other side4 ,a divinely appointed shepherd ought to be able to convince his sheep that a wolf is a dangerous animal1 and ought to be able to give his reasons4 ,it may be that the shepherd has a certain interest in exaggerating the cruelty and ferocity of the wolf1 and even the number of the wolves4 ,should it turn out that the wolves exist only in the imagination of the shepherd1 the sheep might refuse to pay the salary of their pro- tector4 ,it will1 however1 be hard to calculate the extent to which the sheep will lose confidence in a shepherd who has not even the courage to state the facts about the wolf4 ,but what must be the result when the sheep find that the supposed wolf is1 in #da fact1 their friend1 and that he is endeavoring to rescue them from the exactions of the pretended shepherd1 who creates1 by falsehood1 the fear on which he lives8 ,,second ,,interview4 ,por4 ,why1 man1 what's the matter8 ,don't tear your hair4 ,sir ,hugh4 ,i have been beaten in a discussion1 overwhelmed and humiliated4 ,por4 ,why didn't you call your adversary a fool8 ,sir ,hugh4 ,my ,god6 ,i forgot it6 ,question4 ,i want to ask you a few questions about the second sermon of ,mr4 ,talmage2 have you read it1 and what do you think of it8 ,answer4 ,the text taken by the reverend gentle- man is an insult1 and was probably intended as such3 ,the fool hath said in his heart1 there is no ,god4 ,mr4 ,talmage seeks to apply this text to any one who denies that the ,jehovah of the ,jews was and is the infinite and eternal ,creator of all4 ,he is per- fectly satisfied that any man who differs with him on this question is a fool1 and he has the ,christian forbearance and kindness to say so4 ,i presume he #df is honest in this opinion1 and no doubt regards ,bruno1 ,spinoza and ,humboldt as driveling imbeciles4 ,he entertains the same opinion of some of the greatest1 wisest and best of ,greece and ,rome4 ,no man is fitted to reason upon this question who has not the intelligence to see the difficulties in all theories4 ,no man has yet evolved a theory that satisfactorily accounts for all that is4 ,no matter what his opinion may be1 he is beset by a thousand difficulties1 and innumerable things insist upon an explanation4 ,the best that any man can do is to take that theory which to his mind presents the fewest difficulties4 ,mr4 ,talmage has been educated in a certain way--has a brain of a certain quantity1 quality and form--and accepts1 in spite it may be1 of himself1 a certain theory4 ,others1 formed differ- ently1 having lived under different circumstances1 cannot accept the ,talmagian view1 and thereupon he denounces them as fools4 ,in this he follows the example of ,david the murderer2 of ,david1 who advised one of his children to assassinate another2 of ,david1 whose last words were those of hate and crime4 ,mr4 ,talmage insists that it takes no especial brain to reason out a design in ,nature1 and in a moment afterward says that when the world slew #dg ,jesus1 it showed what it would do with the eternal ,god1 if once it could get its hands on ,him4 ,why should a ,god of infinite wisdom create people who would gladly murder their ,creator8 ,was there any particular design in that8 ,does the existence of such people conclusively prove the existence of a good ,designer8 ,it seems to me--and ,i take it that my thought is natural1 as ,i have only been born once--that an infinitely wise and good ,god would naturally create good people1 and if he has not1 cer- tainly the fault is his4 ,the ,god of ,mr4 ,talmage knew1 when he created ,guiteau1 that he would assassinate ,garfield4 ,why did he create him8 ,did he want ,garfield assassinated8 ,will somebody be kind enough to show the design in this trans- action8 ,is it possible to see design in earth- quakes1 in volcanoes1 in pestilence1 in famine1 in ruthless and relentless war8 ,can we find design in the fact that every animal lives upon some other-- that every drop of every sea is a battlefield where the strong devour the weak8 ,over the precipice of cruelty rolls a perpetual ,niagara of blood4 ,is there design in this8 ,why should a good ,god people a world with men capable of burning their fellow-men--and capable of burning the greatest and #dh best8 ,why does a good ,god permit these things8 ,it is said of ,christ that he was infinitely kind and generous1 infinitely merciful1 because when on earth he cured the sick1 the lame and blind4 ,has he not as much power now as he had then8 ,if he was and is the ,god of all worlds1 why does he not now give back to the widow her son8 ,why does he with- hold light from the eyes of the blind8 ,and why does one who had the power miraculously to feed thousands1 allow millions to die for want of food8 ,did ,christ only have pity when he was part human8 ,are we indebted for his kindness to the flesh that clothed his spirit8 ,where is he now8 ,where has he been through all the centuries of slavery and crime8 ,if this universe was designed1 then all that happens was designed4 ,if a man constructs an engine1 the boiler of which explodes1 we say either that he did not know the strength of his materials1 or that he was reckless of human life4 ,if an infinite being should construct a weak or imperfect machine1 he must be held accountable for all that happens4 ,he cannot be permitted to say that he did not know the strength of the materials4 ,he is directly and absolutely re- sponsible4 ,so1 if this world was designed by a being of infinite power and wisdom1 he is responsible for #di the result of that design4 ,my position is this3 ,i do not know4 ,but there are so many objections to the personal-,god theory1 that it is impossible for me to accept it4 ,i prefer to say that the universe is all the ,god there is4 ,i prefer to make no being responsible4 ,i prefer to say3 ,if the naked are clothed1 man must clothe them2 if the hungry are fed1 man must feed them4 ,i prefer to rely upon human endeavor1 upon human intelligence1 upon the heart and brain of man4 ,there is no evidence that ,god has ever interfered in the affairs of man4 ,the hand of earth is stretched uselessly toward heaven4 ,from the clouds there comes no help4 ,in vain the shipwrecked cry to ,god4 ,in vain the imprisoned ask for liberty and light--the world moves on1 and the heavens are deaf and dumb and blind4 ,the frost freezes1 the fire burns1 slander smites1 the wrong triumphs1 the good suffer1 and prayer dies upon the lips of faith4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage charges you with being the champion blasphemer of ,america--what do you understand blasphemy to be8 ,answer4 ,blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by su- perstition upon common sense4 ,whoever investi- gates a religion as he would any department of #ej science1 is called a blasphemer4 ,whoever contradicts a priest1 whoever has the impudence to use his own reason1 whoever is brave enough to express his honest thought1 is a blasphemer in the eyes of the religionist4 ,when a missionary speaks slightingly of the wooden god of a savage1 the savage regards him as a blasphemer4 ,to laugh at the pretensions of ,mohammed in ,constantinople is blasphemy4 ,to say in ,st4 ,petersburg that ,mohammed was a prophet of ,god is also blasphemy4 ,there was a time when to acknowledge the divinity of ,christ in ,jerusalem was blasphemy4 ,to deny his divinity is now blasphemy in ,new ,york4 ,blasphemy is to a considerable extent a geographical question4 ,it depends not only on what you say1 but where you are when you say it4 ,blas- phemy is what the old calls the new1--what last year's leaf says to this year's bud4 ,the founder of every religion was a blasphemer4 ,the ,jews so re- garded ,christ1 and the ,athenians had the same opinion of ,socrates4 ,catholics have always looked upon ,protestants as blasphemers1 and ,protestants have always held the same generous opinion of ,catholics4 ,to deny that ,mary is the ,mother of ,god is blas- phemy4 ,to say that she is the ,mother of ,god is blasphemy4 ,some savages think that a dried snake- #ea skin stuffed with leaves is sacred1 and he who thinks otherwise is a blasphemer4 ,it was once blasphemy to laugh at ,diana1 of the ,ephesians4 ,many people think that it is blasphemous to tell your real opinion of the ,jewish ,jehovah4 ,others imagine that words can be printed upon paper1 and the paper bound into a book covered with sheepskin1 and that the book is sacred1 and that to question its sacredness is blas- phemy4 ,blasphemy is also a crime against ,god1 but nothing can be more absurd than a crime against ,god4 ,if ,god is infinite1 you cannot injure him4 ,you cannot commit a crime against any being that you cannot injure4 ,of course1 the infinite cannot be in- jured4 ,man is a conditioned being4 ,by changing his conditions1 his surroundings1 you can injure him2 but if ,god is infinite1 he is conditionless4 ,if he is conditionless1 he cannot by any possibility be injured4 ,you can neither increase1 nor decrease1 the well-being of the infinite4 ,consequently1 a crime against ,god is a demonstrated impossibility4 ,the cry of blasphemy means only that the argument of the blasphemer can- not be answered4 ,the sleight-of-hand performer1 when some one tries to raise the curtain behind which he operates1 cries blasphemer6 ,the priest1 find- ing that he has been attacked by common sense1-- #eb by a fact1--resorts to the same cry4 ,blasphemy is the black flag of theology1 and it means3 ,no argument and no quarter6 ,it is an appeal to prejudice1 to passions1 to ignorance4 ,it is the last resort of a defeated priest4 ,blasphemy marks the point where argument stops and slander begins4 ,in old times1 it was the signal for throwing stones1 for gathering fagots and for tearing flesh2 now it means falsehood and calumny4 ,question4 ,then you think that there is no such thing as the crime of blasphemy1 and that no such offence can be committed8 ,answer4 ,any one who knowingly speaks in favor of injustice is a blasphemer4 ,whoever wishes to destroy liberty of thought1--the honest expression of ideas1--is a blasphemer4 ,whoever is willing to malign his neighbor1 simply because he differs with him upon a subject about which neither of them knows anything for certain1 is a blasphemer4 ,if a crime can be com- mitted against ,god1 he commits it who imputes to ,god the commission of crime4 ,the man who says that ,god ordered the assassination of women and babes1 that he gave maidens to satisfy the lust of soldiers1 that he enslaved his own children1--that man #ec is a blasphemer4 ,in my judgment1 it would be far better to deny the existence of ,god entirely4 ,it seems to me that every man ought to give his honest opinion4 ,no man should suppose that any infinite ,god requires him to tell as truth that which he knows nothing about4 ,mr4 ,talmage1 in order to make a point against infidelity1 states from his pulpit that ,i am in favor of poisoning the minds of children by the circulation of immoral books4 ,the statement is entirely false4 ,he ought to have known that ,i withdrew from the ,liberal ,league upon the very question whether the law should be repealed or modified4 ,i favored a modification of that law1 so that books and papers could not be thrown from the mails simply because they were infidel4 ,i was and am in favor of the destruction of every immoral book in the world4 ,i was and am in favor1 not only of the law against the circulation of such filth1 but want it executed to the letter in every ,state of this ,union4 ,long before he made that state- ment1 ,i had introduced a resolution to that effect1 and supported the resolution in a speech4 ,notwithstand- ing these facts1 hundreds of clergymen have made haste to tell the exact opposite of the truth4 ,this #ed they have done in the name of ,christianity1 under the pretence of pleasing their ,god4 ,in my judgment1 it is far better to tell your honest opinions1 even upon the subject of theology1 than to knowingly tell a false- hood about a fellow-man4 ,mr4 ,talmage may have been ignorant of the truth4 ,he may have been misled by other ministers1 and for his benefit ,i make this ex- planation4 ,i wanted the laws modified so that bigotry could not interfere with the literature of intelligence2 but ,i did not want1 in any way1 to shield the writers or publishers of immoral books4 ,upon this subject ,i used1 at the last meeting of the ,liberal ,league that ,i attended1 the following language3 ,but there is a distinction wide as the ,mississippi1 yes1 wider than the ,atlantic1 wider than all oceans1 between the literature of immorality and the litera- ture of free thought4 ,one is a crawling1 slimy lizard1 and the other an angel with wings of light4 ,let us draw this distinction4 ,let us understand ourselves4 ,do not make the wholesale statement that all these laws ought to be repealed4 ,they ought not to be repealed4 ,some of them are good1 and the law against sending instruments of vice through the mails is good4 ,the law against sending obscene pictures and books is good4 ,the law against send- #ee ing bogus diplomas through the mails1 to allow a lot of ignorant hyenas to prey upon the sick people of the world1 is a good law4 ,the law against rascals who are getting up bogus lotteries1 and sending their circulars in the mails is a good law4 ,you know1 as well as ,i1 that there are certain books not fit to go through the mails4 ,you know that4 ,you know there are certain pictures not fit to be transmitted1 not fit to be delivered to any human being4 ,when these books and pictures come into the control of the ,united ,states1 ,i say1 burn them up6 ,and when any man has been indicted who has been trying to make money by pandering to the lowest passions in the human breast1 then ,i say1 prosecute him6 let the law take its course4 ,i can hardly convince myself that when ,mr4 ,talmage made the charge1 he was acquainted with the facts4 ,it seems incredible that any man1 pre- tending to be governed by the law of common honesty1 could make a charge like this knowing it to be untrue4 ,under no circumstances1 would ,i charge ,mr4 ,talmage with being an infamous man1 unless the evidence was complete and over- whelming4 ,even then1 ,i should hesitate long before making the charge4 ,the side ,i take on theological #ef questions does not render a resort to slander or calumny a necessity4 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage is an honor- able man1 he will take back the statement he has made4 ,even if there is a ,god1 ,i hardly think that he will reward one of his children for maligning another2 and to one who has told falsehoods about infidels1 that having been his only virtue1 ,i doubt whether he will say3 ,well done good and faithful servant4 ,question4 ,what have you to say to the charge that you are endeavoring to assassinate ,god1 and that you are far worse than the man who at- tempts to kill his father1 or his mother1 or his sister1 or his brother8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i think that is about as reason- able as anything he says4 ,no one wishes1 so far as ,i know1 to assassinate ,god4 ,the idea of assassinating an infinite being is of course infinitely absurd4 ,one would think ,mr4 ,talmage had lost his reason6 ,and yet this man stands at the head of the ,presbyterian clergy4 ,it is for this reason that ,i answer him4 ,he is the only ,presbyterian minister in the ,united ,states1 so far as ,i know1 able to draw an audience4 ,he is1 without doubt1 the leader of that denomination4 #eg ,he is orthodox and conservative4 ,he believes im- plicitly in the ,five ,points of ,calvin1 and says nothing simply for the purpose of attracting attention4 ,he believes that ,god damns a man for his own glory2 that he sends babes to hell to establish his mercy1 and that he filled the world with disease and crime simply to demonstrate his wisdom4 ,he believes that billions of years before the earth was1 ,god had made up his mind as to the exact number that he would eternally damn1 and had counted his saints4 ,this doctrine he calls glad tidings of great joy4 ,he really believes that every man who is true to himself is waging war against ,god2 that every infidel is a rebel2 that every ,freethinker is a traitor1 and that only those are good subjects who have joined the ,presbyterian ,church1 know the ,shorter ,catechism by heart1 and subscribe liberally toward lifting the mort- gage on the ,brooklyn ,tabernacle4 ,all the rest are endeavoring to assassinate ,god1 plotting the murder of the ,holy ,ghost1 and applauding the ,jews for the crucifixion of ,christ4 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage is correct in his views as to the power and wisdom of ,god1 ,i imagine that his enemies at last will be overthrown1 that the assassins and murderers will not succeed1 and that the ,infinite1 with ,mr4 ,talmage s assistance1 will #eh finally triumph4 ,if there is an infinite ,god1 certainly he ought to have made man grand enough to have and express an opinion of his own4 ,is it possible that ,god can be gratified with the applause of moral cowards8 ,does he seek to enhance his glory by receiving the adulation of cringing slaves8 ,is ,god satisfied with the adoration of the frightened8 ,question4 ,you notice that ,mr4 ,talmage finds nearly all the inventions of modern times mentioned in the ,bible8 ,answer3 ,yes2 ,mr4 ,talmage has made an ex- ceedingly important discovery4 ,i admit that ,i am somewhat amazed at the wisdom of the ancients4 ,this discovery has been made just in the nick of time4 ,millions of people were losing their respect for the ,old ,testament4 ,they were beginning to think that there was some discrepancy between the prophecies of ,ezekiel and ,daniel and the latest devel- opments in physical science4 ,thousands of preachers were telling their flocks that the ,bible is not a scientific book2 that ,joshua was not an inspired as- tronomer1 that ,god never enlightened ,moses about geology1 and that ,ezekiel did not understand the entire art of cookery4 ,these admissions caused #ei some young people to suspect that the ,bible1 after all1 was not inspired2 that the prophets of antiquity did not know as much as the discoverers of to-day4 ,the ,bible was falling into disrepute4 ,mr4 ,talmage has rushed to the rescue4 ,he shows1 and shows conclu- sively as anything can be shown from the ,bible1 that ,job understood all the laws of light thousands of years before ,newton lived2 that he anticipated the discoveries of ,descartes1 ,huxley and ,tyndall2 that he was familiar with the telegraph and telephone2 that ,morse1 ,bell and ,edison simply put his discov- eries in successful operation2 that ,nahum was1 in fact1 a master-mechanic2 that he understood perfectly the modern railway and described it so accurately that ,trevethick1 ,foster and ,stephenson had no diffi- culty in constructing a locomotive4 ,he also has discovered that ,job was well acquainted with the trade winds1 and understood the mysterious currents1 tides and pulses of the sea2 that ,lieutenant ,maury was a plagiarist2 that ,humboldt was simply a biblical student4 ,he finds that ,isaiah and ,solomon were far in advance of ,galileo1 ,morse1 ,meyer and ,watt4 ,this is a discovery wholly unexpected to me4 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage is right1 ,i am satisfied the ,bible is an inspired book4 ,if it shall turn out that ,joshua was #fj superior to ,laplace1 that ,moses knew more about geology than ,humboldt1 that ,job as a scientist was the superior of ,kepler1 that ,isaiah knew more than ,copernicus1 and that even the minor prophets ex- celled the inventors and discoverers of our time-- then ,i will admit that infidelity must become speech- less forever4 ,until ,i read this sermon1 ,i had never even suspected that the inventions of modern times were known to the ancient ,jews4 ,i never supposed that ,nahum knew the least thing about railroads1 or that ,job would have known a telegraph if he had seen it4 ,i never supposed that ,joshua comprehended the three laws of ,kepler4 ,of course ,i have not read the ,old ,testament with as much care as some other people have1 and when ,i did read it1 ,i was not looking for inventions and discoveries4 ,i had been told so often that the ,bible was no authority upon scientific questions1 that ,i was lulled into a state of lethargy4 ,what is amazing to me is1 that so many men did read it without getting the slightest hint of the smallest invention4 ,to think that the ,jews read that book for hundreds and hundreds of years1 and yet went to their graves without the slightest notion of astronomy1 or geology1 of railroads1 telegraphs1 or steamboats6 ,and then to think that the early fathers #fa made it the study of their lives and died without in- venting anything6 ,i am astonished that ,mr4 ,talmage himself does not figure in the records of the ,patent ,office4 ,i cannot account for this1 except upon the supposition that he is too honest to infringe on the patents of the patriarchs4 ,after this1 ,i shall read the ,old ,testament with more care4 ,question4 ,do you see that ,mr4 ,talmage endeav- ors to convict you of great ignorance in not knowing that the word translated rib should have been translated side1 and that ,eve1 after all1 was not made out of a rib1 but out of ,adam's side8 ,answer4 ,i may have been misled by taking the ,bible as it is translated4 ,the ,bible account is simply this3 ,and the ,lord ,god caused a deep sleep to fall upon ,adam1 and he slept4 ,and he took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh instead thereof2 and the rib which the ,lord ,god had taken from man made he a woman1 and brought her unto the man4 ,and ,adam said3 ,this is now bone of my bones1 and flesh of my flesh3 she shall be called woman1 because she was taken out of man4 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage is right1 then the account should be as follows3 ,and the ,lord ,god caused a deep sleep #fb to fall upon ,adam1 and he slept2 and he took one of his sides1 and closed up the flesh instead thereof2 and the side which the ,lord ,god had taken from man made he a woman1 and brought her unto the man4 ,and ,adam said3 ,this is now side of my side1 and flesh of my flesh4 ,i do not see that the story is made any better by using the word side instead of rib4 ,it would be just as hard for ,god to make a woman out of a man's side as out of a rib4 ,mr4 ,talmage ought not to question the power of ,god to make a woman out of a bone1 and he must recollect that the less the material the greater the miracle4 ,there are two accounts of the creation of man1 in ,genesis1 the first being in the twenty-first verse of the first chapter and the second being in the twenty-first and twenty-second verses of the sec- ond chapter4 ,according to the second account1 ,god formed man of the dust of the ground1 and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life4 ,and after this1 ,god planted a garden eastward in ,eden and put the man in this garden4 ,after this1 ,he made every tree to grow that was good for food and pleasant to the sight1 and1 in addition1 the tree #fc of life in the midst of the garden1 beside the tree of the knowledge of good and evil4 ,and he put the man in the garden to dress it and keep it1 telling him that he might eat of everything he saw except of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil4 ,after this1 ,god having noticed that it was not good for man to be alone1 formed out of the ground every beast of the field1 every fowl of the air1 and brought them to ,adam to see what he would call them1 and ,adam gave names to all cattle1 and to the fowl of the air1 and to every beast of the field4 ,but for ,adam there was not found an helpmeet for him4 ,we are not told how ,adam learned the language1 or how he understood what ,god said4 ,i can hardly believe that any man can be created with the know- ledge of a language4 ,education cannot be ready made and stuffed into a brain4 ,each person must learn a language for himself4 ,yet in this account we find a language ready made for man's use4 ,and not only man was enabled to speak1 but a serpent also has the power of speech1 and the woman holds a conversation with this animal and with her husband2 and yet no account is given of how any language was #fd learned4 ,god is described as walking in the garden in the cool of the day1 speaking like a man--holding conversations with the man and woman1 and occa- sionally addressing the serpent4 ,in the nursery rhymes of the world there is nothing more childish than this inspired account of the creation of man and woman4 ,the early fathers of the church held that woman was inferior to man1 because man was not made for woman1 but woman for man2 because ,adam was made first and ,eve afterward4 ,they had not the gallantry of ,robert ,burns1 who accounted for the beauty of woman from the fact that ,god practiced on man first1 and then gave woman the benefit of his experience4 ,think1 in this age of the world1 of a well-educated1 intelligent gentleman telling his little child that about six thousand years ago a mysterious being called ,god made the world out of his omnipotence2 then made a man out of some dust which he is supposed to have moulded into form2 that he put this man in a garden for the pur- pose of keeping the trees trimmed2 that after a little while he noticed that the man seemed lonesome1 not particularly happy1 almost homesick2 that then it oc- curred to this ,god1 that it would be a good thing for #fe the man to have some company1 somebody to help him trim the trees1 to talk to him and cheer him up on rainy days2 that1 thereupon1 this ,god caused a deep sleep to fall on the man1 took a knife1 or a long1 sharp piece of omnipotence1 and took out one of the man's sides1 or a rib1 and of that made a woman2 that then this man and woman got along real well till a snake got into the garden and induced the woman to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil2 that the woman got the man to take a bite2 that afterwards both of them were detected by ,god1 who was walking around in the cool of the evening1 and thereupon they were turned out of the garden1 lest they should put forth their hands and eat of the tree of life1 and live forever4 ,this foolish story has been regarded as the sacred1 inspired truth2 as an account substantially written by ,god himself2 and thousands and millions of people have supposed it necessary to believe this childish falsehood1 in order to save their souls4 ,nothing more laughable can be found in the fairy tales and folk-lore of savages4 ,yet this is defended by the leading ,presbyterian divine1 and those who fail to believe in the truth of this story are called brazen faced fools1 deicides1 and blasphemers4 #ff ,by this story woman in all ,christian countries was degraded4 ,she was considered too impure to preach the gospel1 too impure to distribute the sacramental bread1 too impure to hand about the sacred wine1 too impure to step within the holy of holies1 in the ,catholic ,churches1 too impure to be touched by a priest4 ,unmarried men were considered purer than husbands and fathers4 ,nuns were regarded as su- perior to mothers1 a monastery holier than a home1 a nunnery nearer sacred than the cradle4 ,and through all these years it has been thought better to love ,god than to love man1 better to love ,god than to love your wife and children1 better to worship an imaginary deity than to help your fellow-men4 ,i regard the rights of men and women equal4 ,in ,love's fair realm1 husband and wife are king and queen1 sceptered and crowned alike1 and seated on the self-same throne4 ,question4 ,do you still insist that the ,old ,testa- ment upholds polygamy8 ,mr4 ,talmage denies this charge1 and shows how terribly ,god punished those who were not satisfied with one wife4 ,answer4 ,i see nothing in what ,mr4 ,talmage has said calculated to change my opinion4 ,it has been #fg admitted by thousands of theologians that the ,old ,testament upholds polygamy4 ,mr4 ,talmage is among the first to deny it4 ,it will not do to say that ,david was punished for the crime of polygamy or concubinage4 ,he was a man after ,god's own heart4 ,he was made a king4 ,he was a successful general1 and his blood is said to have flowed in the veins of ,god4 ,solomon was1 according to the ac- count1 enriched with wisdom above all human beings4 ,was that a punishment for having had so many wives8 ,was ,abraham pursued by the justice of ,god because of the crime against ,hagar1 or for the crime against his own wife8 ,the verse quoted by ,mr4 ,talmage to show that ,god was opposed to polygamy1 namely1 the eighteenth verse of the eight- eenth chapter of ,leviticus1 cannot by any ingenuity be tortured into a command against polygamy4 ,the most that can be possibly said of it is1 that you shall not marry the sister of your wife1 while your wife is living4 ,yet this passage is quoted by ,mr4 ,talmage as a thunder of prohibition against having more than one wife4 ,in the twentieth chapter of ,leviticus it is enacted3 ,that if a man take a wife and her mother they shall be burned with fire4 ,a commandment like this shows that he might take his #fh wife and somebody else's mother4 ,these passages have nothing to do with polygamy4 ,they show whom you may marry1 not how many2 and there is not in ,leviticus a solitary word against polygamy-- not one4 ,nor is there such a word in ,genesis1 nor ,exodus1 nor in the entire ,pentateuch--not one word4 ,these books are filled with the most minute directions about killing sheep1 and goats and doves2 about making clothes for priests1 about fashioning tongs and snuffers2 and yet1 they contain not one word against polygamy4 ,it never occurred to the in- spired writers that polygamy was a crime4 ,polygamy was accepted as a matter of course4 ,women were simple property4 ,mr4 ,talmage1 however1 insists that1 although ,god was against polygamy1 he permitted it1 and at the same time threw his moral influence against it4 ,upon this subject he says3 ,no doubt ,god per- mitted polygamy to continue for sometime1 just as he permits murder and arson1 theft and gam- bling to-day to continue1 although he is against them4 ,if ,god is the author of the ,ten ,com- mandments1 he prohibited murder and theft1 but he said nothing about polygamy4 ,if he was so terribly against that crime1 why did he forget to #fi mention it8 ,was there not room enough on the tables of stone for just one word on this subject8 ,had he no time to give a commandment against slavery8 ,mr4 ,talmage of course insists that ,god had to deal with these things gradually1 his idea being that if ,god had made a commandment against them all at once1 the ,jews would have had nothing more to do with him4 ,for instance3 if we wanted to break cannibals of eating missionaries1 we should not tell them all at once that it was wrong1 that it was wicked1 to eat missionaries raw2 we should induce them first to cook the missionaries1 and gradually wean them from raw flesh4 ,this would be the first great step4 ,we would stew the missionaries1 and after a time put a little mutton in the stew1 not enough to excite the suspicion of the cannibal1 but just enough to get him in the habit of eating mutton without knowing it4 ,day after day we would put in more mutton and less missionary1 until finally1 the cannibal would be perfectly satisfied with clear mutton4 ,then we would tell him that it was wrong to eat missionary4 ,after the can- nibal got so that he liked mutton1 and cared nothing for missionary1 then it would be safe to have a law upon the subject4 #gj ,mr4 ,talmage insists that polygamy cannot exist among people who believe the ,bible4 ,in this he is mistaken4 ,the ,mormons all believe the ,bible4 ,there is not a single polygamist in ,utah who does not insist upon the inspiration of the ,old and ,new ,testaments4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,newman1 a kind of peripatetic consu- lar theologian1 once had a discussion1 ,i believe1 with ,elder ,orson ,pratt1 at ,salt ,lake ,city1 upon the question of polygamy4 ,it is sufficient to say of this discussion that it is now circulated by the ,mormons as a campaign document4 ,the elder overwhelmed the parson4 ,passages of ,scripture in favor of polygamy were quoted by the hundred4 ,the lives of all the patriarchs were brought forward1 and poor parson ,newman was driven from the field4 ,the truth is1 the ,jews at that time were much like our forefathers4 ,they were barbarians1 and many of their laws were unjust and cruel4 ,polygamy was the right of all2 practiced1 as a matter of fact1 by the rich and powerful1 and the rich and powerful were envied by the poor4 ,in such esteem did the ancient ,jews hold polygamy1 that the number of ,solomons wives was given1 simply to en- hance his glory4 ,my own opinion is1 that ,solomon had very few wives1 and that polygamy was not general in ,palestine4 ,the country was too poor1 and #ga ,solomon1 in all his glory was hardly able to support one wife4 ,he was a poor barbarian king with a limited revenue1 with a poor soil1 with a sparse popu- lation1 without art1 without science and without power4 ,he sustained about the same relation to other kings that ,delaware does to other ,states4 ,mr4 ,talmage says that ,god persecuted ,solomon1 and yet1 if he will turn to the twenty-second chapter of ,first ,chronicles1 he will find what ,god promised to ,solomon4 ,god1 speaking to ,david1 says3 ,behold a son shall be born to thee1 who shall be a man of rest1 and ,i will give him rest from his enemies around about2 for his name shall be ,solomon1 and ,i will give peace and quietness unto ,israel in his days4 ,he shall build a house in my name1 and he shall be my son and ,i will be his father1 and ,i will establish the throne of his kingdom over ,israel forever4 ,did ,god keep his promise8 ,so he tells us that ,david was persecuted by ,god1 on account of his offences1 and yet ,i find in the twenty-eighth verse of the twenty-ninth chapter of ,first ,chronicles1 the following account of the death of ,david3 ,and he died in a good old age1 full of days1 riches and honor4 ,is this true8 ,question4 ,what have you to say to the charge that you were mistaken in the number of years that #gb the ,hebrews were in ,egypt8 ,mr4 ,talmage says that they were there #dcj years1 instead of #bae years4 ,answer4 ,if you will read the third chapter of ,galatians1 sixteenth and seventeenth verses1 you will find that it was #dcj years from the time ,god made the promise to ,abraham to the giving of the law from ,mount ,sinai4 ,the ,hebrews did not go to ,egypt for #bae years after the promise was made to ,abraham1 and consequently did not remain in ,egypt more than #bae years4 ,if ,galatians is true1 ,i am right4 ,strange that ,mr4 ,talmage should belittle the mira- cles4 ,the trouble with this defender of the faith is that he cares nothing for facts4 ,he makes the strangest statements1 and cares the least for proof1 of any man ,i know4 ,i can account for what he says of me only upon the supposition that he has not read my lectures4 ,he may have been misled by the pirated editions2 ,persons have stolen my lectures1 printed the same ones under various names1 and filled them with mistakes and things ,i never said4 ,mr4 ,c4 ,p4 ,farrell1 of ,washington1 is my only authorized publisher4 ,yet ,mr4 ,talmage prefers to answer the mistakes of literary thieves1 and charge their ignorance to me4 ,question4 ,did you ever attack the character of ,queen ,victoria1 or did you draw any parallel between #gc her and ,george ,eliot1 calculated to depreciate the reputation of the ,queen8 ,answer4 ,i never said a word against ,victoria4 ,the fact is1 ,i am not acquainted with her--never met her in my life1 and know but little of her4 ,i never happened to see her in plain clothes1 reading the ,bible to the poor in the lane1--neither did ,i ever hear her sing4 ,i most cheerfully admit that her reputation is good in the neighborhood where she resides4 ,in one of my lectures ,i drew a parallel between ,george ,eliot and ,victoria4 ,i was showing the difference between a woman who had won her position in the world of thought1 and one who was queen by chance4 ,this is what ,i said3 ,it no longer satisfies the ambition of a great man to be a king or emperor4 ,the last ,napoleon was not satisfied with being the ,emperor of the ,french4 ,he was not satisfied with having a circlet of gold about his head--he wanted some evidence that he had something of value in his head4 ,so he wrote the life of ,julius ,caesar that he might become a member of the ,french ,academy4 ,the emperors1 the kings1 the popes1 no longer tower above their fellows4 ,compare ,king ,william with the philoso- pher ,haeckel4 ,the king is one of the 'anointed #gd 'of the ,most ,high'--as they claim--one upon whose head has been poured the divine petroleum of authority4 ,compare this king with ,haeckel1 who towers an intellectual ,colossus above the crowned mediocrity4 ,compare ,george ,eliot with ,queen ,victoria4 ,the queen is clothed in garments given her by blind fortune and unreasoning chance1 while ,george ,eliot wears robes of glory1 woven in the loom of her own genius4 ,the world is beginning to pay homage to intellect1 to genius1 to heart4 ,i said not one word against ,queen ,victoria1 and did not intend to even intimate that she was not an ex- cellent woman1 wife and mother4 ,i was simply trying to show that the world was getting great enough to place a genius above an accidental queen4 ,mr4 ,tal- mage1 true to the fawning1 cringing spirit of ortho- doxy1 lauds the living queen and cruelly maligns the genius dead4 ,he digs open the grave of ,george ,eliot1 and tries to stain the sacred dust of one who was the greatest woman ,england has produced4 ,he calls her an adultress4 ,he attacks her because she was an atheist--because she abhorred ,jehovah1 denied the inspiration of the ,bible1 denied the dogma of eternal pain1 and with all her heart despised the ,presbyterian creed4 ,he hates her because she was great and brave #ge and free--because she lived without faith and died without fear--because she dared to give her honest thought1 and grandly bore the taunts and slanders of the ,christian world4 ,george ,eliot tenderly carried in her heart the burdens of our race4 ,she looked through pity's tears upon the faults and frailties of mankind4 ,she knew the springs and seeds of thought and deed1 and saw1 with cloudless eyes1 through all the winding ways of greed1 ambition and deceit1 where folly vainly plucks with thorn-pierced hands the fading flowers of selfish joy--the highway of eternal right4 ,whatever her relations may have been--no matter what ,i think1 or others say1 or how much all regret the one mistake in all her self-denying1 loving life--,i feel and know that in the court where her own conscience sat as judge1 she stood acquitted--pure as light and stainless as a star4 ,how appropriate here1 with some slight change1 the wondrously poetic and pathetic words of ,laertes at ,ophelia's grave3 ,leave her i' the earth2 ,and from her fair and unpolluted flesh ,may violets spring6 ,i tell thee1 churlish priest1 ,a ministering angel shall this woman be1 ,when thou liest howling6 ,i have no words with which to tell my loathing for a man who violates a noble woman's grave4 #gf ,question4 ,do you think that the spirit in which ,mr4 ,talmage reviews your lectures is in accordance with the teachings of ,christianity8 ,answer4 ,i think that he talks like a true ,presby- terian4 ,if you will read the arguments of ,calvin against the doctrines of ,castalio and ,servetus1 you will see that ,mr4 ,talmage follows closely in the footsteps of the founder of his church4 ,castalio was such a wicked and abandoned wretch1 that he taught the innocence of honest error4 ,he insisted that ,god would not eternally damn a man for being honestly mistaken4 ,for the utterance of such blasphemous sentiments1 abhorrent to every ,christian mind1 ,calvin called him a dog of ,satan1 and a child of hell4 ,in short1 he used the usual arguments4 ,castalio was banished1 and died in exile4 ,in the case of ,servetus1 after all the epithets had been exhausted1 an appeal was made to the stake1 and the blasphemous wretch was burned to ashes4 ,if you will read the life of ,john ,knox1 you will find that ,mr4 ,talmage is as orthodox in his methods of dealing with infidels1 as he is in his creed4 ,in my opinion1 he would gladly treat unbelievers now1 as the ,puritans did the ,quakers1 as the ,episcopalians did the ,presbyterians1 as the ,presbyterians did the ,baptists1 #gg and as the ,catholics have treated all heretics4 ,of course1 all these sects will settle their differences in heaven4 ,in the next world1 they will laugh at the crimes they committed in this4 ,the course pursued by ,mr4 ,talmage is consistent4 ,the pulpit cannot afford to abandon the weapons of falsehood and defamation4 ,candor sows the seeds of doubt4 ,fairness is weakness4 ,the only way to suc- cessfully uphold the religion of universal love1 is to denounce all ,freethinkers as blasphemers1 adulterers1 and criminals4 ,no matter how generous they may appear to be1 no matter how fairly they may deal with their fellow-men1 rest assured that they are actuated by the lowest and basest motives4 ,infidels who out- wardly live honest and virtuous lives1 are inwardly vicious1 virulent and vile4 ,after all1 morality is only a veneering4 ,god is not deceived with the varnish of good works4 ,we know that the natural man is totally depraved1 and that until he has been regene- rated by the spirit of ,god1 he is utterly incapable of a good action4 ,the generosity of the unbeliever is1 in fact1 avarice4 ,his honesty is only a form of larceny4 ,his love is only hatred4 ,no matter how sincerely he may love his wife1--how devoted he may be to his children1--no matter how ready he may be 'to #gh sacrifice even his life for the good of mankind1 ,god1 looking into his very heart1 finds it only a den of hissing snakes1 a lair of wild1 ferocious beasts1 a cage of unclean birds4 ,the idea that ,god will save a man simply because he is honest and generous1 is almost too preposterous for serious refutation4 ,no man should rely upon his own goodness4 ,he should plead the virtue of another4 ,god1 in his infinite justice1 damns a good man on his own merits1 and saves a bad man on the merits of another4 ,the repentant murderer will be an angel of light1 while his honest and unoffending victim will be a fiend in hell4 ,a little while ago1 a ship1 disabled1 was blown about the ,atlantic for eighty days4 ,everything had been eaten4 ,nothing remained but bare decks and hunger4 ,the crew consisted of ,captain ,kruger and nine others4 ,for nine days1 nothing had been eaten4 ,the captain1 taking a revolver in his hand1 said3 ,mates1 some one must die for the rest4 ,i am willing to sacrifice myself for you4 ,one of his comrades grasped his hand1 and implored him to wait one more day4 ,the next morning1 a sail was seen upon the horizon1 and the dying men were rescued4 ,to an ordinary man1--to one guided by the light of #gi reason1--it is perfectly clear that ,captain ,kruger was about to do an infinitely generous action4 ,yet ,mr4 ,talmage will tell us that if that captain was not a ,christian1 and if he had sent the bullet crashing through his brain in order that his comrades might eat his body1 and live to reach their wives and homes1-- his soul1 from that ship1 would have gone1 by dark and tortuous ways1 down to the prison of eternal pain4 ,is it possible that ,christ would eternally damn a man for doing exactly what ,christ would have done1 had he been infinitely generous1 under the same cir- cumstances8 ,is not self-denial in a man as praise- worthy as in a ,god8 ,should a ,god be worshiped1 and a man be damned1 for the same action8 ,according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 every soldier who fought for our country in the ,revolutionary war1 who was not a ,christian1 is now in hell4 ,every soldier1 not a ,christian1 who carried the flag of his country to vic- tory--either upon the land or sea1 in the war of #ahab1 is now in hell4 ,every soldier1 not a ,christian1 who fought for the preservation of this ,union1--to break the chains of slavery--to free four millions of people --to keep the whip from the naked back--every man who did this--every one who died at ,andersonville and ,libby1 dreaming that his death would help make #hj the lives of others worth living1 is now a lost and wretched soul4 ,these men are now in the prison of ,god1--a prison in which the cruelties of ,libby and ,andersonville would be regarded as mercies1--in which famine would be a joy4 ,,third ,,interview4 ,sinner4 ,is ,god infinite in wisdom and power8 ,parson4 ,he is4 ,sinner4 ,does he at all times know just what ought to be done8 ,parson4 ,he does4 ,sinner4 ,does he always do just what ought to be done8 ,parson4 ,he does4 ,sinner4 ,why do you pray to him8 ,parson4 ,because he is unchangeable4 ,question4 ,i want to ask you a few questions about ,mr4 ,talmage's third sermon4 ,what do you think of it8 ,answer4 ,i often ask myself the questions3 ,is there anything in the occupation of a minister1--any- thing in his surroundings1 that makes him incapable of treating an opponent fairly1 or decently8 ,is there anything in the doctrine of universal forgiveness that compels a man to speak of one who differs with him only in terms of disrespect and hatred8 ,is it neces- sary for those who profess to love the whole world1 to hate the few they come in actual contact with8 #hd ,mr4 ,talmage1 no doubt1 professes to love all man- kind1--,jew and ,gentile1 ,christian and ,pagan4 ,no doubt1 he believes in the missionary effort1 and thinks we should do all in our power to save the soul of the most benighted savage2 and yet he shows anything but affection for the heathen at home4 ,he loves the ones he never saw1--is real anxious for their wel- fare1--but for the ones he knows1 he exhibits only scorn and hatred4 ,in one breath1 he tells us that ,christ loves us1 and in the next1 that we are wolves and dogs4 ,we are informed that ,christ forgave even his murderers1 but that now he hates an honest unbeliever with all his heart4 ,he can forgive the ones who drove the nails into his hands and feet1-- the one who thrust the spear through his quivering flesh1--but he cannot forgive the man who entertains an honest doubt about the scheme of salvation4 ,he regards the man who thinks1 as a mouth-maker at heaven4 ,is it possible that ,christ is less for- giving in heaven than he was in ,jerusalem8 ,did he excuse murderers then1 and does he damn thinkers now8 ,once he pitied even thieves2 does he now abhor an intellectually honest man8 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage seems to think that you have no right to give your opinion about the ,bible4 #he ,do you think that laymen have the same right as ministers to examine the ,scriptures8 ,answer4 ,if ,god only made a revelation for preachers1 of course we will have to depend on the preachers for information4 ,but the preachers have made the mistake of showing the revelation4 ,they ask us1 the laymen1 to read it1 and certainly there is no use of reading it1 unless we are permitted to think for ourselves while we read4 ,if after reading the ,bible we believe it to be true1 we will say so1 if we are honest4 ,if we do not believe it1 we will say so1 if we are honest4 ,but why should ,god be so particular about our believing the stories in his book8 ,why should ,god object to having his book examined8 ,we do not have to call upon legislators1 or courts1 to protect ,shakespeare from the derision of mankind4 ,was not ,god able to write a book that would command the love and admiration of the world8 ,if the ,god of ,mr4 ,talmage is infinite1 he knew exactly how the stories of the ,old ,testament would strike a gentle- man of the nineteenth century4 ,he knew that many would have their doubts1--that thousands of them-- and ,i may say most of them1--would refuse to believe that a miracle had ever been performed4 #hf ,now1 it seems to me that he should either have left the stories out1 or furnished evidence enough to con- vince the world4 ,according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 thou- sands of people are pouring over the ,niagara of unbelief into the gulf of eternal pain4 ,why does not ,god furnish more evidence8 ,just in proportion as man has developed intellectually1 he has demanded additional testimony4 ,that which satisfies a barbarian1 excites only the laughter of a civilized man4 ,cer- tainly ,god should furnish evidence in harmony with the spirit of the age4 ,if ,god wrote his ,bible for the average man1 he should have written it in such a way that it would have carried conviction to the brain and heart of the average man2 and he should have made no man in such a way that he could not1 by any possibility1 believe it4 ,there certainly should be a harmony between the ,bible and the human brain4 ,if ,i do not believe the ,bible1 whose fault is it8 ,mr4 ,talmage insists that his ,god wrote the ,bible for me4 and made me4 ,if this is true1 the book and the man should agree4 ,there is no sense in ,god writing a book for me and then making me in such a way that ,i cannot believe his book4 ,question4 ,but ,mr4 ,talmage says the reason why you hate the ,bible is1 that your soul is poisoned2 that #hg the ,bible throws you into a rage precisely as pure water brings on a paroxysm of hydrophobia4 ,answer4 ,is it because the mind of the infidel is poisoned1 that he refuses to believe that an infinite ,god commanded the murder of mothers1 maidens and babes8 ,is it because their minds are impure1 that they refuse to believe that a good ,god established the institution of human slavery1 or that he protected it when established8 ,is it because their minds are vile1 that they refuse to believe that an infinite ,god established or protected polygamy8 ,is it a sure sign of an impure mind1 when a man insists that ,god never waged wars of extermination against his helpless children8 ,does it show that a man has been entirely given over to the devil1 because he refuses to believe that ,god ordered a father to sacri- fice his son8 ,does it show that a heart is entirely without mercy1 simply because a man denies the justice of eternal pain8 ,i denounce many parts of the ,old ,testament because they are infinitely repugnant to my sense of justice1--because they are bloody1 brutal and in- famous1--because they uphold crime and destroy human liberty4 ,it is impossible for me to imagine a greater monster than the ,god of the ,old ,testa- #hh ment4 ,he is unworthy of my worship4 ,he com- mands only my detestation1 my execration1 and my passionate hatred4 ,the ,god who commanded the murder of children is an infamous fiend4 ,the ,god who believed in polygamy1 is worthy only of con- tempt4 ,the ,god who established slavery should be hated by every free man4 ,the ,jehovah of the ,jews was simply a barbarian1 and the ,old ,testament is mostly the barbarous record of a barbarous people4 ,if the ,jehovah of the ,jews is the real ,god1 ,i do not wish to be his friend4 ,from him ,i neither ask1 nor expect1 nor would ,i be willing to receive1 even an eternity of joy4 ,according to the ,old ,testament1 he established a government1--a political state1--and yet1 no civilized country to-day would re-enact these laws of ,god4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the explanation given by ,mr4 ,talmage of the stopping of the sun and moon in the time of ,joshua1 in order that a battle might be completed8 ,answer4 ,of course1 if there is an infinite ,god1 he could have stopped the sun and moon4 ,no one pretends to prescribe limits to the power of the infinite4 ,even admitting that such a being existed1 the question whether he did stop the sun and moon1 #hi or not1 still remains4 ,according to the account1 these planets were stopped1 in order that ,joshua might con- tinue the pursuit of a routed enemy4 ,i take it for granted that a being of infinite wisdom would not waste any force1--that he would not throw away any omnipotence1 and that1 under ordinary circum- stances1 he would husband his resources4 ,i find that this spirit exists1 at least in embryo1 in ,mr4 ,talmage4 ,he proceeds to explain this miracle4 ,he does not assert that the earth was stopped on its axis1 but sug- gests refraction as a way out of the difficulty4 ,now1 while the stopping of the earth on its axis accounts for the sun remaining in the same relative position1 it does not account for the stoppage of the moon4 ,the moon has a motion of its own1 and even if the earth had been stopped in its rotary motion1 the moon would have gone on4 ,the ,bible tells us that the moon was stopped4 ,one would suppose that the sun would have given sufficient light for all practical purposes4 ,will ,mr4 ,talmage be kind enough to explain the stoppage of the moon8 ,every one knows that the moon is somewhat obscure when the sun is in the midst of the heavens4 ,the moon when compared with the sun at such a time1 is much like one of the discourses of ,mr4 ,talmage side by side with a chapter from ,humboldt2--it is useless4 #ij ,in the same chapter in which the account of the stoppage of the sun and moon is given1 we find that ,god cast down from heaven great hailstones on ,joshua's enemies4 ,did he get out of hailstones8 ,had he no omnipotence left8 ,was it necessary for him to stop the sun and moon and depend entirely upon the efforts of ,joshua8 ,would not the force employed in stopping the rotary motion of the earth have been sufficient to destroy the enemy8 ,would not a millionth part of the force necessary to stop the moon1 have pierced the enemy's centre1 and rolled up both his flanks8 ,a resort to lightning would have been1 in my judgment1 much more economical and rather more effective4 ,if he had simply opened the earth1 and swallowed them1 as he did ,korah and his company1 it would have been a vast saving of omnipotent muscle4 ,yet1 the foremost orthodox minister of the ,presbyterian ,church1--the one who calls all unbelievers wolves and dogs1 and brazen fools1 in his effort to account for this miracle1 is driven to the subterfuge of an optical illusion4 ,we are seriously informed that ,god probably changed the nature of the air1 and performed this feat of ledgerdemain through the instrumentality of refraction4 ,it seems to me it would have been fully #ia as easy to have changed the nature of the air breathed by the enemy1 so that it would not have supported life4 ,he could have accomplished this by changing only a little air1 in that vicinity2 whereas1 according to the ,talmagian view1 he changed the atmosphere of the world4 ,or1 a small local flood might have done the work4 ,the optical illusion and refraction view1 ingenious as it may appear1 was not original with ,mr4 ,talmage4 ,the ,rev4 ,henry ,m4 ,morey1 of ,south ,bend1 ,indiana1 used1 upon this subject1 the fol- lowing language2 ,the phenomenon was simply optical4 ,the rotary motion of the earth was not disturbed1 but the light of the sun was prolonged by the same laws of refraction and reflection by which the sun now appears to be above the horizon when it is really below4 ,the medium through which the sun's rays passed1 might have been miraculously influenced so as to have caused the sun to linger above the horizon long after its usual time for dis- appearance4 ,i pronounce the opinion of ,mr4 ,morey to be the ripest product of ,christian scholarship4 ,according to the ,morey-,talmage view1 the sun lingered somewhat above the horizon4 ,but this is inconsistent with the ,bible account4 ,we are not told in the ,scriptures that #ib the sun lingered above the horizon1 but that it stood still in the midst of heaven for about a whole day4 ,the trouble about the optical-illusion view is1 that it makes the day too long4 ,if the air was miraculously changed1 so that it refracted the rays of the sun1 while the earth turned over as usual for about a whole day1 then1 at the end of that time1 the sun must have been again visible in the east4 ,it would then naturally shine twelve hours more1 so that this miraculous day must have been at least thirty-six hours in length4 ,there were first twelve hours of natural light1 then twelve hours of refracted and reflected light1 and then twelve hours more of natural light4 ,this makes the day too long4 ,so1 ,i say to ,mr4 ,talmage1 as ,i said to ,mr4 ,morey3 ,if you will depend a little less on refraction1 and a little more on reflection1 you will see that the whole story is a barbaric myth and foolish fable4 ,for my part1 ,i do not see why ,god should be pleased to have me believe a story of this character4 ,i can hardly think that there is great joy in heaven over another falsehood swallowed4 ,i can imagine that a man may deny this story1 and still be an excel- lent citizen1 a good father1 an obliging neighbor1 and in all respects a just and truthful man4 ,i can also #ic imagine that a man may believe this story1 and yet assassinate a ,president of the ,united ,states4 ,i am afraid that ,mr4 ,talmage is beginning to be touched1 in spite of himself1 with some new ideas4 ,he tells us that worlds are born and that worlds die4 ,this is not exactly the ,bible view4 ,you would think that he imagined that a world was naturally pro- duced1--that the aggregation of atoms was natural1 and that disintegration came to worlds1 as to men1 through old age4 ,yet this is not the ,bible view4 ,according to the ,bible1 these worlds were not born1-- they were created out of nothing1 or out of omnipotence1 which is much the same4 ,according to the ,bible1 it took this infinite ,god six days to make this atom called earth2 and according to the account1 he did not work nights1--he worked from the morn- ings to the evenings1--and ,i suppose rested nights1 as he has since that time on ,sundays4 ,admitting that the battle which ,joshua fought was exceedingly important--which ,i do not think-- is it not a little strange that this ,god1 in all subse- quent battles of the world's history1 of which we know anything1 has maintained the strictest neu- trality8 ,the earth turned as usual at ,yorktown1 and at ,gettysburg the moon pursued her usual #id course2 and so far as ,i know1 neither at ,waterloo nor at ,sedan were there any peculiar freaks of re- fraction or reflection4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage tells us that there was in the early part of this century a dark day1 when workmen went home from their fields1 and legis- latures and courts adjourned1 and that the darkness of that day has not yet been explained4 ,what is your opinion about that8 ,answer4 ,my opinion is1 that if at that time we had been at war with ,england1 and a battle had been commenced in the morning1 and in the after- noon the ,american forces had been driven from their position and were hard pressed by the enemy1 and if the day had become suddenly dark1 and so dark that the ,americans were thereby enabled to escape1 thousands of theologians of the calibre of ,mr4 ,tal- mage would have honestly believed that there had been an interposition of divine ,providence4 ,no battle was fought that day1 and consequently1 even the ministers are looking for natural causes4 ,in olden times1 when the heavens were visited by comets1 war1 pestilence and famine were predicted4 ,if wars came1 the prediction was remembered2 if #ie nothing happened1 it was forgotten4 ,when eclipses visited the sun and moon1 the barbarian fell upon his knees1 and accounted for the phenomena by the wickedness of his neighbor4 ,mr4 ,talmage tells us that his father was terrified by the meteoric shower that visited our earth in #ahcc4 ,the terror of the father may account for the credulity of the son4 ,astronomers will be surprised to read the declaration of ,mr4 ,talmage that the meteoric shower has never been explained4 ,meteors visit the earth every year of its life1 and in a certain portion of the orbit they are always expected1 and they always come4 ,mr4 ,newcomb has written a work on astronomy that all ministers ought to read4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage also charges you with making light of holy things1 and seems to be aston- ished that you should ridicule the anointing oil of ,aaron8 ,answer4 ,i find that the ,god who had no time to say anything on the subject of slavery1 and who found no room upon the tables of stone to say a word against polygamy1 and in favor of the rights of woman1 wife and mother1 took time to give a recipe for making hair oil4 ,and in order that the priests #if might have the exclusive right to manufacture this oil1 decreed the penalty of death on all who should infringe4 ,i admit that ,i am incapable of seeing the beauty of this symbol4 ,neither could ,i ever see the necessity of ,masons putting oil on the corner-stone of a building4 ,of course1 ,i do not know the exact chemical effect that oil has on stone1 and ,i see no harm in laughing at such a ceremony4 ,if the oil does good1 the laughter will do no harm2 and if the oil will do no harm1 the laughter will do no good4 ,personally1 ,i am willing that ,masons should put oil on all stones2 but1 if ,masons should insist that ,i must believe in the effi- cacy of the ceremony1 or be eternally damned1 ,i would have about the same feeling toward the ,masons that ,i now have toward ,mr4 ,talmage4 ,i presume that at one time the putting of oil on a corner-stone had some meaning2 but that it ever did any good1 no sensible man will insist4 ,it is a custom to break a bottle of champagne over the bow of a newly-launched ship1 but ,i have never considered this ceremony important to the commercial interests of the world4 ,i have the same opinion about putting oil on stones1 as about putting water on heads4 ,for my part1 ,i see no good in the rite of baptism4 ,still1 it #ig may do no harm1 unless people are immersed during cold weather4 ,neither have ,i the slightest objection to the baptism of anybody2 but if people tell me that ,i must be baptized or suffer eternal agony1 then ,i deny it4 ,if they say that baptism does any earthly good1 ,i deny it4 ,no one objects to any harmless ceremony2 but the moment it is insisted that a ceremony is neces- sary1 the reason of which no man can see1 then the practice of the ceremony becomes hurtful1 for the reason that it is maintained only at the expense of intelligence and manhood4 ,it is hurtful for people to imagine that they can please ,god by any ceremony whatever4 ,if there is any ,god1 there is only one way to please him1 and that is1 by a conscientious discharge of your obliga- tions to your fellow-men4 ,millions of people imagine that they can please ,god by wearing certain kinds of cloth4 ,think of a ,god who can be pleased with a coat of a certain cut6 ,others1 to earn a smile of heaven1 shave their heads1 or trim their beards1 or perforate their ears or lips or noses4 ,others maim and mutilate their bodies4 ,others think to please ,god by simply shutting their eyes1 by swinging censers1 by lighting candles1 by repeating poor ,latin1 by making a sign of the cross with holy water1 by #ih ringing bells1 by going without meat1 by eating fish1 by getting hungry1 by counting beads1 by making themselves miserable ,sundays1 by looking solemn1 by refusing to marry1 by hearing sermons2 and others imagine that they can please ,god by calumni- ating unbelievers4 ,there is an old story of an ,irishman who1 when dying1 sent for a priest4 ,the reputation of the dying man was so perfectly miserable1 that the priest refused to administer the rite of extreme unction4 ,the priest therefore asked him if he could recollect any decent action that he had ever done4 ,the dying man said that he could not4 ,very well1 said the priest1 then you will have to be damned4 ,in a moment1 the pinched and pale face brightened1 and he said to the priest3 ,i have thought of one good action4 ,what is it8 asked the priest4 ,and the dying man said1 ,once ,i killed a gauger4 ,i suppose that in the next world some ministers1 driven to extremes1 may reply3 ,once ,i told a lie about an infidel4 ,question4 ,you see that ,mr4 ,talmage still sticks to the whale and ,jonah story4 ,what do you think of his argument1 or of his explanation1 rather1 of that miracle8 #ii ,answer4 ,the edge of his orthodoxy seems to be crumbling4 ,he tells us that there is in the mouth of the common whale a cavity large enough for a man to live in without descent into his stomach1-- and yet ,christ says1 that ,jonah was in the whale's belly1 not in his mouth4 ,but why should ,mr4 ,tal- mage say that8 ,we are told in the sacred account that ,god prepared a great fish for the sole pur- pose of having ,jonah swallowed4 ,the size of the present whale has nothing to do with the story4 ,no matter whether the throat of the whale of to-day is large or small1--that has nothing to do with it4 ,the simple story is1 that ,god prepared a fish and had ,jonah swallowed4 ,and yet ,mr4 ,talmage throws out the suggestion that probably this whale held ,jonah in his mouth for three days and nights4 ,i admit that ,jonah's chance for air would have been a little better in his mouth1 and his chance for water a little worse4 ,probably the whale that swallowed ,jonah was the same fish spoken of by ,procopius1--both accounts being entitled1 in my judgment1 to equal credence4 ,i am a little surprised that ,mr4 ,talmage forgot to mention the fish spoken of by ,munchausen--an equally reliable author1--and who has given1 not simply the bald fact that a fish swallowed a ship1 but #ajj was good enough to furnish the details4 ,mr4 ,talmage should remember that out of ,jonah's biography grew the habit of calling any remarkable lie1 a fish story4 ,there is one thing that ,mr4 ,talmage should not forget2 and that is1 that miracles should not be explained4 ,miracles are told simply to be believed1 not to be understood4 ,somebody suggested to ,mr4 ,talmage that1 in all probability1 a person in the stomach of a whale would be digested in less than three days4 ,mr4 ,tal- mage1 again showing his lack of confidence in ,god1 refusing to believe that ,god could change the nature of gastric juice1--having no opportunity to rely upon refraction or reflection1 frankly admits that ,jonah had to save himself by keeping on the constant go and jump4 ,this gastric-juice theory of ,mr4 ,talmage is an abandonment of his mouth hy- pothesis4 ,i do not wonder that ,mr4 ,talmage thought of the mouth theory4 ,possibly1 the two theories had better be united--so that we may say that ,jonah1 when he got tired of the activity necessary to avoid the gastric juice1 could have strolled into the mouth for a rest4 ,what a picture6 ,jonah sitting on the edge of the lower jaw1 wiping the perspiration and the gastric juice from his anxious #aja face1 and vainly looking through the open mouth for signs of land6 ,in this story of ,jonah1 we are told that the ,lord spake unto the fish4 ,in what language8 ,it must be remembered that this fish was only a few hours old4 ,he had been prepared during the storm1 for the sole purpose of swallowing ,jonah4 ,he was a fish of exceedingly limited experience4 ,he had no hereditary knowledge1 because he did not spring from ancestors2 consequently1 he had no instincts4 ,would such a fish understand any language8 ,it may be contended that the fish1 having been made for the occasion1 was given a sufficient knowledge of language to understand an ordinary command- ment2 but1 if ,mr4 ,talmage is right1 ,i think an order to the fish would have been entirely unnecessary4 ,when we take into consideration that a thing the size of a man had been promenading up and down the stomach of this fish for three days and three nights1 successfully baffling the efforts of gastric juice1 we can readily believe that the fish was as anxious to have ,jonah go1 as ,jonah was to leave4 ,but the whale part is1 after all1 not the most won- derful portion of the book of ,jonah4 ,according to this wonderful account1 the word of the ,lord came #ajb to ,jonah1 telling him to go and cry against the city of ,nineveh2 but ,jonah1 instead of going1 endeavored to evade the ,lord by taking ship for ,tarshish4 ,as soon as the ,lord heard of this1 he sent out a great wind into the sea1 and frightened the sailors to that extent that after assuring them- selves1 by casting lots1 that ,jonah was the man1 they threw him into the sea4 ,after escaping from the whale1 he went to ,nineveh1 and delivered his pre- tended message from ,god4 ,in consequence of his message1 ,jonah having no credentials from ,god1-- nothing certifying to his official character1 the ,king of ,nineveh covered himself with sack-cloth and sat down in some ashes4 ,he then caused a decree to be issued that every man and beast should abstain from food and water2 and further1 that every man and beast should be covered with sack-cloth4 ,this was done in the hope that ,jonah's ,god would repent1 and turn away his fierce anger4 ,when we take into con- sideration the fact that the people of ,nineveh were not ,hebrews1 and had not the slightest confidence in the ,god of the ,jews--knew no more of1 and cared no more for1 ,jehovah than we now care for ,jupiter1 or ,neptune2 the effect produced by the proclamation of ,jonah is1 to say the least of it1 almost incredible4 #ajc ,we are also informed1 in this book1 that the moment ,god saw all the people sitting in the ashes1 and all the animals covered with sack-cloth1 he repented4 ,this failure on the part of ,god to destroy the unbelievers displeased ,jonah exceedingly1 and he was very angry4 ,jonah was much like the modern minister1 who seems always to be personally aggrieved if the pestilence and famine prophesied by him do not come4 ,jonah was displeased to that degree1 that he asked ,god to kill him4 ,jonah then went out of the city1 even after ,god had repented1 made him a booth and sat under it1 in the shade1 waiting to see what would become of the city4 ,god then prepared a gourd1 and made it to come up over ,jonah that it might be a shadow over his head to deliver him from his grief4 ,and then we have this pathetic line3 ,so ,jonah was exceedingly glad of the gourd4 ,god having prepared a fish1 and also prepared a gourd1 proposed next morning to prepare a worm4 ,and when the sun rose next day1 the worm that ,god had prepared1 smote the gourd1 so that it withered4 ,i can hardly believe that an in- finite being prepared a worm to smite a gourd so that it withered1 in order to keep the sun from #ajd the bald head of a prophet4 ,according to the account1 after sunrise1 and after the worm had smitten the gourd1 ,god prepared a vehement east wind4 ,this was not an ordinary wind1 but one prepared expressly for that occasion4 ,after the wind had been prepared1 the sun beat upon the head of ,jonah1 and he fainted1 and wished in himself to die4 ,all this was done in order to convince ,jonah that a man who would deplore the loss of a gourd1 ought not to wish for the destruction of a city4 ,is it possible for any intelligent man now to believe that the history of ,jonah is literally true8 ,for my part1 ,i cannot see the necessity either of believing it1 or of preaching it4 ,it has nothing to do with honesty1 with mercy1 or with morality4 ,the bad may believe it1 and the good may hold it in contempt4 ,i do not see that civilization has the slightest interest in the fish1 the gourd1 the worm1 or the vehement east wind4 ,does ,mr4 ,talmage think that it is absolutely neces- sary to believe all the story8 ,does he not think it probable that a ,god of infinite mercy1 rather than damn the soul of an honest man to hell forever1 would waive1 for instance1 the worm1--provided he believed in the vehement east wind1 the gourd and the fish8 #aje ,mr4 ,talmage1 by insisting on the literal truth of the ,bible stories1 is doing ,christianity great harm4 ,thousands of young men will say3 ,i can't become a ,christian if it is necessary to believe the adven- tures of ,jonah4 ,mr4 ,talmage will put into the paths of multitudes of people willing to do right1 anxious to make the world a little better than it is1-- this stumbling block4 ,he could have explained it1 called it an allegory1 poetical license1 a child of the oriental imagination1 a symbol1 a parable1 a poem1 a dream1 a legend1 a myth1 a divine figure1 or a great truth wrapped in the rags and shreds and patches of seeming falsehood4 ,his efforts to belittle the miracle1 to suggest the mouth instead of the stomach1--to suggest that ,jonah took deck passage1 or lodged in the forecastle instead of in the cabin or steerage1-- to suggest motion as a means of avoiding digestion1 is a serious theological blunder1 and may cause the loss of many souls4 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage will consult with other ministers1 they will tell him to let this story alone--that he will simply provoke investigation and discussion--two things to be avoided4 ,they will tell him that they are not willing their salary should hang on so slender a thread1 and will advise him not to bother his gourd #ajf about ,jonah's4 ,they will also tell him that in this age of the world1 arguments cannot be answered by a vehement east wind4 ,some people will think that it would have been just as easy for ,god to have pulled the gourd up1 as to have prepared a worm to bite it4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage charges that you have said there are indecencies in the ,bible4 ,are you still of that opinion8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,talmage endeavors to evade the charge1 by saying that there are things in the ,bible not intended to be read1 either in the family circle1 or in the pulpit1 but nevertheless they are to be read4 ,my own judgment is1 that an infinite being should not inspire the writing of indecent things4 ,it will not do to say1 that the ,bible description of sin warns and saves4 ,there is nothing in the history of ,tamar calculated to warn and save and the same may be said of many other passages in the ,old ,testament4 ,most ,christians would be glad to know that all such passages are interpolations4 ,i regret that ,shakespeare ever wrote a line that could not be read any where1 and by any person4 ,but ,shakespeare1 great as he was1 did not rise en- #ajg tirely above his time4 ,so of most poets4 ,nearly all have stained their pages with some vulgarity2 and ,i am sorry for it1 and hope the time will come when we shall have an edition of all the great writers and poets from which every such passage is elimi- nated4 ,it is with the ,bible as with most other books4 ,it is a mingling of good and bad4 ,there are many exquisite passages in the ,bible1--many good laws1-- many wise sayings1--and there are many passages that should never have been written4 ,i do not pro- pose to throw away the good on account of the bad1 neither do ,i propose to accept the bad on account of the good4 ,the ,bible need not be taken as an entirety4 ,it is the business of every man who reads it1 to discriminate between that which is good and that which is bad4 ,there are also many passages neither good nor bad1--wholly and totally indifferent --conveying #aaj information--utterly destitute of ideas1--and as to these passages1 my only objection to them is that they waste time and paper4 ,i am in favor of every passage in the ,bible that conveys information4 ,i am in favor of every wise proverb1 of every verse coming from human ex- perience and that appeals to the heart of man4 ,i am #ajh in favor of every passage that inculcates justice1 generosity1 purity1 and mercy4 ,i am satisfied that much of the historical part is false4 ,some of it is probably true4 ,let us have the courage to take the true1 and throw the false away4 ,i am satisfied that many of the passages are barbaric1 and many of them are good4 ,let us have the wisdom to accept the good and to reject the barbaric4 ,no system of religion should go in partnership with barbarism4 ,neither should any ,christian feel it his duty to defend the savagery of the past4 ,the philosophy of ,christ must stand independently of the mistakes of the ,old ,testament4 ,we should do jus- tice whether a woman was made from a rib or from omnipotence4 ,we should be merciful whether the flood was general1 or local4 ,we should be kind and obliging whether ,jonah was swallowed by a fish or not4 ,the miraculous has nothing to do with the moral4 ,intelligence is of more value than inspiration4 ,brain is better than ,bible4 ,reason is above all religion4 ,i do not believe that any civilized human being clings to the ,bible on account of its barbaric passages4 ,i am candid enough to believe that every ,christian in the world would think more of the ,bible1 if it had not upheld slavery1 if it had denounced #aji polygamy1 if it had cried out against wars of exter- mination1 if it had spared women and babes1 if it had upheld everywhere1 and at all times1 the standard of justice and mercy4 ,but when it is claimed that the book is perfect1 that it is inspired1 that it is1 in fact1 the work of an infinitely wise and good ,god1--then it should be without a defect4 ,there should not be within its lids an impure word2 it should not express an impure thought4 ,there should not be one word in favor of injustice1 not one word in favor of slavery1 not one word in favor of wars of extermination4 ,there must be another revision of the ,scriptures4 ,the chaff must be thrown away4 ,the dross must be rejected2 and only that be retained which is in exact harmony with the brain and heart of the greatest and the best4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage charges you with unfair- ness1 because you account for the death of art in ,palestine1 by the commandment which forbids the making of graven images4 ,answer4 ,i have said that that commandment was the death of art1 and ,i say so still4 ,i insist that by reason of that commandment1 ,palestine produced no painter and no sculptor until after the destruction of #aaj ,jerusalem4 ,mr4 ,talmage1 in order to answer that statement1 goes on to show that hundreds and thou- sands of pictures were produced in the ,middle ,ages4 ,that is a departure in pleading4 ,will he give us the names of the painters that existed in ,palestine from ,mount ,sinai to the destruction of the temple8 ,will he give us the names of the sculptors between those times8 ,mohammed prohibited his followers from making any representation of human or animal life1 and as a result1 ,mohammedans have never produced a painter nor a sculptor1 except in the portrayal and chiseling of vegetable forms4 ,they were confined to trees and vines1 and flowers4 ,no ,mohammedan has portrayed the human face or form4 ,but the commandment of ,jehovah went farther than that of ,momammed1 and prevented portraying the image of anything4 ,the assassination of art was complete4 ,there is another thing that should not be forgotten4 ,we are indebted for the encouragement of art1 not to the ,protestant ,church2 if indebted to any1 it is to the ,catholic4 ,the ,catholic adorned the cathedral with painting and statue--not the ,protestant4 ,the ,protestants opposed music and painting1 and refused to decorate their temples4 ,but if ,mr4 ,tal- mage wishes to know to whom we are indebted for #aaa art1 let him read the mythology of ,greece and ,rome4 ,the early ,christians destroyed paintings and statues4 ,they were the enemies of all beauty4 ,they hated and detested every expression of art4 ,they looked upon the love of statues as a form of idolatry4 ,they looked upon every painting as a remnant of ,pagan- ism4 ,they destroyed all upon which they could lay their ignorant hands4 ,hundred of years afterwards1 the world was compelled to search for the fragments that ,christian fury had left4 ,the ,greeks filled the world with beauty4 ,for every stream and mountain and cataract they had a god or goddess4 ,their sculptors impersonated every dream and hope1 and their mythology feeds1 to-day1 the imagination of mankind4 ,the ,venus de ,milo is the impersonation of beauty1 in ruin--the sublimest fragment of the ancient world4 ,our mythology is infinitely unpoetic and barren--our deity an old bachelor from eternity1 who once believed in indiscriminate massacre4 ,upon the throne of our heaven1 woman finds no place4 ,our mythology is destitute of the maternal4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage denies your statement that the ,old ,testament humiliates woman4 ,he also denies that the ,new ,testament says anything against woman4 ,how is it8 #aab ,answer4 ,of course1 ,i never considered a book up- holding polygamy to be the friend of woman4 ,eve1 according to that book1 is the mother of us all1 and yet the inspired writer does not tell us how long she lived1--does not even mention her death1--makes not the slightest reference as to what finally became of her4 ,methuselah lived nine hundred and sixty- nine years1 and yet1 there is not the slightest mention made of ,mrs4 ,methuselah4 ,enoch was translated1 and his widow is not mentioned4 ,there is not a word about ,mrs4 ,seth1 or ,mrs4 ,enos1 or ,mrs4 ,cainan1 or ,mrs4 ,mahalaleel1 or ,mrs4 ,jared4 ,we do not know the name of ,mrs4 ,noah1 and ,i believe not the name of a solitary woman is given from the creation of ,eve--with the exception of two of ,lamech's wives--until ,sarai is mentioned as being the wife of ,abram4 ,if you wish really to know the ,bible estimation of woman1 turn to the fourth and fifth verses of the twelfth chapter of ,leviticus1 in which a woman1 for the crime of having borne a son1 is unfit to touch a hallowed thing1 or to come in the holy sanctuary for thirty-three days2 but if a woman was the mother of a girl1 then she became totally unfit to enter the sanctuary1 or pollute with her touch a hallowed thing1 #aac for sixty-six days4 ,the pollution was twice as great when she had borne a daughter4 ,it is a little difficult to see why it is a greater crime to give birth to a daughter than to a son4 ,surely1 a law like that did not tend to the elevation of woman4 ,you will also find in the same chapter that a woman had to offer a pigeon1 or a turtle-dove1 as a sin offer- ing1 in order to expiate the crime of having become a mother4 ,by the ,levitical law1 a mother was unclean4 ,the priest had to make an atonement for her4 ,if there is1 beneath the stars1 a figure of complete and perfect purity1 it is a mother holding in her arms her child4 ,the laws respecting women1 given by commandment of ,jehovah to the ,jews1 were born of barbarism1 and in this day and age should be re- garded only with detestation and contempt4 ,the twentieth and twenty-first verses of the nineteenth chapter of ,leviticus show that the same punishment was not meted to men and women guilty of the same crime4 ,the real explanation of what we find in the ,old ,testament degrading to woman1 lies in the fact1 that the overflow of ,love's mysterious ,nile--the sacred source of life--was1 by its savage authors1 deemed unclean4 #aad ,question4 ,but what have you to say about the women of the ,bible1 mentioned by ,mr4 ,talmage1 and held up as examples for all time of all that is sweet and womanly8 ,answer4 ,i believe that ,esther is his principal heroine4 ,let us see who she was4 ,according to the book of ,esther1 ,ahasuerus who was king of ,persia1 or some such place1 ordered ,vashti his queen to show herself to the people and the princes1 because she was exceedingly fair to look upon4 ,for some reason--modesty per- haps--she refused to appear4 ,and thereupon the king sent letters into all his provinces and to every people after their language1 that every man should bear rule in his own house2 it being feared that if it should become public that ,vashti had disobeyed1 all other wives might follow her example4 ,the king also1 for the purpose of impressing upon all women the necessity of obeying their husbands1 issued a decree that ,vashti should come no more before him1 and that he would give her royal estate unto another4 ,this was done that all the wives should give to their husbands honor1 both to great and small4 ,after this1 the king appointed officers in all the #aae provinces of his kingdom that they might gather together all the fair young virgins1 and bring them to his palace1 put them in the custody of his chamberlain1 and have them thoroughly washed4 ,then the king was to look over the lot and take each day the one that pleased him best until he found the one to put in the place of ,vashti4 ,a fellow by the name of ,mordecai1 living in that part of the country1 hearing of the opportunity to sell a girl1 brought ,esther1 his uncle's daughter1--she being an orphan1 and very beautiful--to see whether she might not be the lucky one4 ,the remainder of the second chapter of this book1 ,i do not care to repeat4 ,it is sufficient to say that ,esther at last was chosen4 ,the king at this time did not know that ,esther was a ,jewess4 ,mordecai her kinsman1 however1 discovered a plot to assassinate the king1 and ,esther told the king1 and the two plotting gentlemen were hanged on a tree4 ,after a while1 a man by the name of ,haman was made ,secretary of ,state1 and everybody coming in his presence bowed except ,mordecai4 ,mordecai was probably depending on the influence of ,esther4 ,haman finally became so vexed1 that he made up #aaf his mind to have all the ,jews in the kingdom destroyed4 7,the number of ,jews at that time in ,persia must have been immense47 ,haman there- upon requested the king to have an order issued to destroy all the ,jews1 and in consideration of the order1 proposed to pay ten thousand talents of silver4 ,and thereupon1 letters were written to the governors of the various provinces1 sealed with the king's ring1 sent by post in all directions1 with instructions to kill all the ,jews1 both young and old--little children and women1--in one day4 7,one would think that the king copied this order from another part of the ,old ,testament1 or had found an original by ,jehovah47 ,the people immediately made preparations for the killing4 ,mordecai clothed himself with sack-cloth1 and ,esther called upon one of the king's chamberlains1 and she finally got the history of the affair1 as well as a copy of the writing1 and thereupon made up her mind to go in and ask the king to save her people4 ,at that time1 ,bismarck's idea of government being in full force1 any one entering the king's presence with- out an invitation1 was liable to be put to death4 ,and in case any one did go in to see the king1 if the king failed to hold out his golden sceptre1 his life was not spared4 ,notwithstanding this order1 ,esther put on #aag her best clothes1 and stood in the inner court of the king's house1 while the king sat on his royal throne4 ,when the king saw her standing in the court1 he held out his sceptre1 and ,esther drew near1 and he asked her what she wished2 and thereupon she asked that the king and ,haman might take dinner with her that day1 and it was done4 ,while they were feasting1 the king again asked ,esther what she wanted2 and her second request was1 that they would come and dine with her once more4 ,when ,haman left the palace that day1 he saw ,mordecai again at the gate1 standing as stiffly as usual1 and it filled ,haman with indignation4 ,so ,haman1 taking the advice of his wife1 made a gallows fifty cubits high1 for the special benefit of ,mordecai4 ,the next day1 when ,haman went to see the king1 the king1 having the night before refreshed his memory in respect to the service done him by ,mordecai1 asked ,haman what ought to be done for the man whom the king wished to honor4 ,haman1 supposing of course that the king referred to him1 said that royal purple ought to be brought forth1 such as the king wore1 and the horse that the king rode on1 and the crown-royal should be set on the man's head2--that one of the most noble princes should lead the horse1 #aah and as he went through the streets1 proclaim3 ,thus shall it be done to the man whom the king de- lighteth to honor4 ,thereupon the king told ,haman that ,mordecai was the man that the king wished to honor4 ,and ,haman was forced to lead this horse1 backed by ,mordecai1 through the streets1 shouting3 ,this shall be done to the man whom the king delighteth to honor4 ,immediately afterward1 he went to the banquet that ,esther had prepared1 and the king again asked ,esther her petition4 ,she then asked for the salvation of her people2 stating at the same time1 that if her people had been sold into slavery1 she would have held her tongue2 but since they were about to be killed1 she could not keep silent4 ,the king asked her who had done this thing2 and ,esther replied that it was the wicked ,haman4 ,thereupon one of the chamberlains1 remembering the gallows that had been made for ,mordecai1 men- tioned it1 and the king immediately ordered that ,haman be hanged thereon2 which was done4 ,and ,mordecai immediately became ,secretary of ,state4 ,the order against the ,jews was then rescinded2 and ,ahasuerus1 willing to do anything that ,esther de- sired1 hanged all of ,haman's folks4 ,he not only did #aai this1 but he immediately issued an order to all the ,jews allowing them to kill the other folks4 ,and the ,jews got together throughout one hundred and twenty-seven provinces1 and such was their power1 that no man could stand against them2 and there- upon the ,jews smote all their enemies with the stroke of the sword1 and with slaughter and de- struction1 and did whatever they pleased to those who hated them4 ,and in the palace of the king1 the ,jews slew and destroyed five hundred men1 besides ten sons of ,haman2 and in the rest of the provinces1 they slew seventy-five thousand people4 ,and after this work of slaughter1 the ,jews had a day of glad- ness and feasting4 ,one can see from this1 what a beautiful ,bible character ,esther was--how filled with all that is womanly1 gentle1 kind and tender6 ,this story is one of the most unreasonable1 as well as one of the most heartless and revengeful1 in the whole ,bible4 ,ahasuerus was a monster1 and ,esther equally infamous2 and yet1 this woman is held up for the admiration of mankind by a ,brooklyn pastor4 ,there is this peculiarity about the book of ,esther3 the name of ,god is not mentioned in it1 and the deity is not referred to1 directly or indirectly2--yet #abj it is claimed to be an inspired book4 ,if ,jehovah wrote it1 he certainly cannot be charged with egotism4 ,i most cheerfully admit that the book of ,ruth is quite a pleasant story1 and the affection of ,ruth for her mother-in-law exceedingly touching1 but ,i am of opinion that ,ruth did many things that would be re- garded as somewhat indiscreet1 even in the city of ,brooklyn4 ,all ,i can find about ,hannah is1 that she made a little coat for her boy ,samuel1 and brought it to him from year to year4 ,where he got his vest and pantaloons we are not told4 ,but this fact seems hardly enough to make her name immortal4 ,so also ,mr4 ,talmage refers us to the wonderful woman ,abigail4 ,the story about ,abigail1 told in plain ,english1 is this3 ,david sent some of his fol- lowers to ,nabal1 ,abigail's husband1 and demanded food4 ,nabal1 who knew nothing about ,david1 and cared less1 refused4 ,abigail heard about it1 and took food to ,david and his servants4 ,she was very much struck1 apparently1 with ,david and ,david with her4 ,a few days afterward ,nabal died--supposed to have been killed by the ,lord--but probably poisoned2 and thereupon ,david took ,abigail to wife4 ,the #aba whole matter should have been investigated by the grand jury4 ,we are also referred to ,dorcas1 who no doubt was a good woman--made clothes for the poor and gave alms1 as millions have done since then4 ,it seems that this woman died4 ,peter was sent for1 and there- upon raised her from the dead1 and she is never men- tioned any more4 ,is it not a little strange that a woman who had been actually raised from the dead1 should have so completely passed out of the memory of her time1 that when she died the second time1 she was entirely unnoticed8 ,is it not astonishing that so little is in the ,new ,testament concerning the mother of ,christ8 ,my own opinion is1 that she was an excellent woman1 and the wife of ,joseph2 and that ,joseph was the actual father of ,christ4 ,i think there can be no reasonable doubt that such was the opinion of the authors of the original gospels4 ,upon any other hypothesis1 it is impossible to account for their having given the genealogy of ,joseph to prove that ,christ was of the blood of ,david4 ,the idea that he was the ,son of ,god1 or in any way miraculously produced1 was an afterthought1 and is hardly entitled now to serious consideration4 ,the gospels were written so long after #abb the death of ,christ1 that very little was known of him1 and substantially nothing of his parents4 ,how is it that not one word is said about the death of ,mary-- not one word about the death of ,joseph8 ,how did it happen that ,christ did not visit his mother after his resurrection8 ,the first time he speaks to his mother is when he was twelve years old4 ,his mother having told him that she and his father had been seeking him1 he replied3 ,how is it that ye sought me3 wist ye not that ,i must be about my ,father s business8 ,the second time was at the marriage feast in ,cana1 when he said to her3 ,woman1 what have ,i to do with thee8 ,and the third time was at the cross1 when ,jesus1 seeing his mother standing by the disciple whom he loved1 said to her3 ,woman1 be- hold thy son2 and to the disciple3 ,behold thy mother4 ,and this is all4 ,the best thing about the ,catholic ,church is the deification of ,mary1--and yet this is denounced by ,protestantism as idolatry4 ,there is something in the human heart that prompts man to tell his faults more freely to the mother than to the father4 ,the cruelty of ,jehovah is softened by the mercy of ,mary4 ,is it not strange that none of the disciples of ,christ #abc said anything about their parents1--that we know absolutely nothing of them8 ,is there any evidence that they showed any particular respect even for the mother of ,christ8 ,mary ,magdalen is1 in many respects1 the tenderest and most loving character in the ,new ,testament4 ,according to the account1 her love for ,christ knew no abatement1--no change--true even in the hopeless shadow of the cross4 ,neither did it die with his death4 ,she waited at the sepulchre2 she hasted in the early morning to his tomb1 and yet the only comfort ,christ gave to this true and loving soul lies in these strangely cold and heartless words3 ,touch me not4 ,there is nothing tending to show that the women spoken of in the ,bible were superior to the ones we know4 ,there are to-day millions of women making coats for their sons1--hundreds of thousands of women1 true not simply to innocent people1 falsely accused1 but to criminals4 ,many a loving heart is as true to the gallows as ,mary was to the cross4 ,there are hundreds of thousands of women accept- ing poverty and want and dishonor1 for the love they bear unworthy men2 hundreds and thousands1 hun- dreds and thousands1 working day and night1 with #abd strained eyes and tired hands1 for husbands and children1--clothed in rags1 housed in huts and hovels1 hoping day after day for the angel of death4 ,there are thousands of women in ,christian ,england1 working in iron1 laboring in the fields and toiling in mines4 ,there are hundreds and thousands in ,europe1 everywhere1 doing the work of men--deformed by toil1 and who would become simply wild and ferocious beasts1 except for the love they bear for home and child4 ,you need not go back four thousand years for heroines4 ,the world is filled with them to-day4 ,they do not belong to any nation1 nor to any religion1 nor exclusively to any race4 ,wherever woman is found1 they are found4 ,there is no description of any women in the ,bible that equal thousands and thousands of women known to-day4 ,the women mentioned by ,mr4 ,talmage fall almost infinitely below1 not simply those in real life1 but the creations of the imagination found in the world of fiction4 ,they will not compare with the women born of ,shakespeare's brain4 ,you will find none like ,isabella1 in whose spotless life1 love and reason blended into perfect truth2 nor ,juliet1 within whose heart passion and purity met1 like white and red within the bosom of a rose2 nor ,cordelia1 who chose to #abe suffer loss rather than show her wealth of love with those who gilded dross with golden words in hope of gain2 nor ,miranda1 who told her love as freely as a flower gives its bosom to the kisses of the sun2 nor ,imogene1 who asked3 ,what is it to be false8 nor ,hermione1 who bore with perfect faith and hope the cross of shame1 and who at last forgave with all her heart2 nor ,desdemona1 her innocence so perfect and her love so pure1 that she was incapable of sus- pecting that another could suspect1 and sought with dying words to hide her lover's crime4 ,if we wish to find what the ,bible thinks of woman1 all that is necessary to do is to read it4 ,we will find that everywhere she is spoken of simply as property1--as belonging absolutely to the man4 ,we will find that whenever a man got tired of his wife1 all he had to do was to give her a writing of divorcement1 and that then the mother of his children became a houseless and a homeless wanderer4 ,we will find that men were allowed to have as many wives as they could get1 either by courtship1 purchase1 or conquest4 ,the ,jewish people in the olden time were in many respects like their barbarian neighbors4 ,if we read the ,new ,testament1 we will find in the #abf epistle of ,paul to ,timothy1 the following gallant passages3 ,let the woman learn in silence1 with all subjection4 ,but ,i suffer not a woman to teach1 nor to usurp authority over the man1 but to be in silence4 ,and for these kind1 gentle and civilized remarks1 the apostle ,paul gives the following reasons3 ,for ,adam was first formed1 then ,eve4 ,and ,adam was not deceived1 but the woman being deceived was in the transgression4 ,certainly women ought to feel under great obli- gation to the apostle ,paul4 ,in the fifth chapter of the same epistle1 ,paul1 advising ,timothy as to what kind of people he should admit into his society or church1 uses the following language3 ,let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old1 having been the wife of one man4 ,but the younger widows refuse1 for when they have begun to wax wanton against ,christ1 they will marry4 ,this same ,paul did not seem to think polygamy wrong1 except in a bishop4 ,he tells ,timothy that3 #abg ,a bishop must be blameless1 the husband of one wife4 ,he also lays down the rule that a deacon should be the husband of one wife1 leaving us to infer that the other members might have as many as they could get4 ,in the second epistle to ,timothy1 ,paul speaks of grandmother ,lois1 who was referred to in such extravagant language by ,mr4 ,talmage1 and nothing is said touching her character in the least4 ,all her virtues live in the imagination1 and in the imagina- tion alone4 ,paul1 also1 in his epistle to the ,ephesians1 says3 ,wives1 submit yourselves unto your own hus- bands1 as unto the ,lord4 ,for the husband is the head of the wife1 even as ,christ is the head of the church4 ,therefore1 as the church is subject unto ,christ1 so let the wives be to their own husbands1 in everything4 ,you will find1 too1 that in the seventh chapter of ,first ,corinthians1 ,paul laments that all men are not bachelors like himself1 and in the second verse of that chapter he gives the only reason for which he was willing that men and women should marry4 ,he advised all the unmarried1 and all widows1 to remain #abh as he was4 ,in the ninth verse of this same chapter is a slander too vulgar for repetition1--an estimate of woman and of woman's love so low and vile1 that every woman should hold the inspired author in infinite abhorrence4 ,paul sums up the whole matter1 however1 by telling those who have wives or husbands1 to stay with them--as necessary evils only to be tolerated--but sincerely regrets that anybody was ever married2 and finally says that3 ,they that have wives should be as though they had none2 because1 in his opinion3 ,he that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the ,lord1 how he may please the ,lord2 but he that is married careth for the things that are of the world1 how he may please his wife4 ,there is this difference also1 he tells us1 be- tween a wife and a virgin4 ,the unmarried woman careth for the things of the ,lord1 that she may be holy both in body and in spirit2 but she that is married careth for the things of the world1 how she may please her husband4 ,of course1 it is contended that these things have tended to the elevation of woman4 ,the idea that it is better to love the ,lord than to #abi love your wife1 or your husband1 is infinitely absurd4 ,nobody ever did love the ,lord1--nobody can--until he becomes acquainted with him4 ,saint ,paul also tells us that ,man is the image and glory of ,god2 but woman is the glory of man2 and for the purpose of sustaining this posi- tion1 says3 ,for the man is not of the woman1 but the woman of the man2 neither was the man created for the woman1 but the woman for the man4 ,of course1 we can all see that man could have gotten along well enough without woman1 but woman1 by no possibility1 could have gotten along without man4 ,and yet1 this is called inspired2 and this apostle ,paul is supposed to have known more than all the people now upon the earth4 ,no wonder ,paul at last was constrained to say3 ,we are fools for ,christ's sake4 ,question4 ,how do you account for the present condition of woman in what is known as the civilized world1 unless the ,bible has bettered her condition8 ,answer4 ,we must remember that thousands of things enter into the problem of civilization4 ,soil1 climate1 and geographical position1 united with count- #acj less other influences1 have resulted in the civilization of our time4 ,if we want to find what the influence of the ,bible has been1 we must ascertain the condition of ,europe when the ,bible was considered as abso- lutely true1 and when it wielded its greatest influence4 ,christianity as a form of religion had actual posses- sion of ,europe during the ,middle ,ages4 ,at that time1 it exerted its greatest power4 ,then it had the opportunity of breaking the shackles from the limbs of woman4 ,christianity found the ,roman matron a free woman4 ,polygamy was never known in ,rome2 and although divorces were allowed by law1 the ,roman state had been founded for more than five hundred years before either a husband or a wife asked for a divorce4 ,from the foundation of ,chris- tianity1--,i mean from the time it became the force in the ,roman state1--woman1 as such1 went down in the scale of civilization4 ,the sceptre was taken from her hands1 and she became once more the slave and serf of man4 ,the men also were made slaves1 and woman has regained her liberty by the same means that man has regained his1--by wresting authority from the hands of the church4 ,while the church had power1 the wife and mother was not considered as good as the begging nun2 the husband and father was far below the vermin-covered monk2 homes were of no value compared with the cathedral2 for ,god had to have a house1 no matter how many of his children were wanderers4 ,during all the years in which woman has struggled for equal liberty with man1 she has been met with the ,bible doctrine that she is the inferior of the man2 that ,adam was made first1 and ,eve afterwards2 that man was not made for woman1 but that woman was made for man4 ,i find that in this day and generation1 the meanest men have the lowest estimate of woman2 that the greater the man is1 the grander he is1 the more he thinks of mother1 wife and daughter4 ,i also find that just in the proportion that he has lost confidence in the polygamy of ,jehovah and in the advice and philosophy of ,saint ,paul1 he believes in the rights and liberties of woman4 ,as a matter of fact1 men have risen from a perusal of the ,bible1 and murdered their wives4 ,they have risen from reading its pages1 and inflicted cruel and even mortal blows upon their children4 ,men have risen from reading the ,bible and torn the flesh of others with red-hot pincers4 ,they have laid down the sacred volume long enough to pour molten lead into the ears of others4 ,they have stopped reading the sacred ,scriptures for a sufficient time to #acb incarcerate their fellow-men1 to load them with chains1 and then they have gone back to their reading1 allowing their victims to die in darkness and despair4 ,men have stopped reading the ,old ,testament long enough to drive a stake into the ground and collect a few fagots and burn an honest man4 ,even ministers have denied themselves the privilege of reading the sacred book long enough to tell falsehoods about their fellow-men4 ,there is no crime that ,bible readers and ,bible believers and ,bible worshipers and ,bible defenders have not committed4 ,there is no meanness of which some ,bible reader1 believer1 and defender1 has not been guilty4 ,bible believers and ,bible defenders have filled the world with calumnies and slanders4 ,bible believers and ,bible defenders have not only whipped their wives1 but they have murdered them2 they have murdered their children4 ,i do not say that reading the ,bible will necessarily make men dishonest1 but ,i do say1 that reading the ,bible will not prevent their committing crimes4 ,i do not say that believing the ,bible will necessarily make men commit burglary1 but ,i do say that a belief in the ,bible has caused men to persecute each other1 to imprison each other1 and to burn each other4 ,only a little while ago1 a ,british clergyman mur- #acc dered his wife4 ,only a little while ago1 an ,american ,protestant clergyman whipped his boy to death be- cause the boy refused to say a prayer4 ,the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,crowley not only believed the ,bible1 but was licensed to expound it4 ,he had been called to the ministry1 and upon his head had been laid the holy hands2 and yet1 he deliberately starved orphans1 and while looking upon their sunken eyes and hollow cheeks1 sung pious hymns and quoted with great unction3 ,suffer little chil- dren to come unto me4 ,as a matter of fact1 in the last twenty years1 more money has been stolen by ,christian cashiers1 ,christian presidents1 ,christian directors1 ,christian trustees and ,christian statesmen1 than by all other convicts in all the penitentiaries in all the ,christian world4 ,the assassin of ,henry the ,fourth was a ,bible reader and a ,bible believer4 ,the instigators of the massacre of ,st4 ,bartholomew were believers in your sacred ,scriptures4 ,the men who invested their money in the slave-trade believed themselves filled with the ,holy ,ghost1 and read with rapture the ,psalms of ,david and the ,sermon on the ,mount4 ,the murderers of ,scotch ,presbyterians were believers in ,revelation1 and the #acd ,presbyterians1 when they murdered others1 were also believers4 ,nearly every man who expiates a crime upon the gallows is a believer in the ,bible4 ,for a thousand years1 the daggers of assassination and the swords of war were blest by priests--by the believers in the sacred ,scriptures4 ,the assassin of ,president ,garfield is a believer in the ,bible1 a hater of infidelity1 a believer in personal inspiration1 and he expects in a few weeks to join the winged and redeemed in heaven4 ,if a man would follow1 to-day1 the teachings of the ,old ,testament1 he would be a criminal4 ,if he would follow strictly the teachings of the ,new1 he would be insane4 ,,fourth ,,interview4 ,son4 ,there is no devil4 ,mother4 ,i know there is4 ,son4 ,how do you know8 ,mother4 ,because they make pictures that look just like him4 ,son4 ,but1 mother-- ,mother4 ,don't mother me6 ,you are trying to disgrace your parents4 ,question4 ,i want to ask you a few questions about ,mr4 ,talmage's fourth sermon against you1 entitled3 ,the ,meanness of ,infidelity1 in which he compares you to ,jehoiakim1 who had the temerity to throw some of the writings of the weeping ,jeremiah into the fire8 ,answer4 ,so far as ,i am concerned1 ,i really re- gret that a second edition of ,jeremiah's roll was gotten out4 ,it would have been far better for us all1 if it had been left in ashes4 ,there was nothing but curses and prophecies of evil1 in the sacred roll that #ach ,jehoiakim burned4 ,the ,bible tells us that ,jehovah became exceedingly wroth because of the destruction of this roll1 and pronounced a curse upon ,jehoiakim and upon ,palestine4 ,i presume it was on account of the burning of that roll that the king of ,babylon destroyed the chosen people of ,god4 ,it was on account of that sacrilege that the ,lord said of ,jehoiakim3 ,he shall have none to sit upon the throne of ,david2 and his dead body shall be cast out in the day to the heat1 and in the night to the frost4 ,any one can see how much a dead body would suffer under such circumstances4 ,imagine an infinitely wise1 good and powerful ,god taking ven- geance on the corpse of a barbarian king6 ,what joy there must have been in heaven as the angels watched the alternate melting and freezing of the dead body of ,jehoiakim6 ,jeremiah was probably the most accomplished croaker of all time4 ,nothing satisfied him4 ,he was a prophetic pessimist1--an ancient ,bourbon4 ,he was only happy when predicting war1 pestilence and famine4 ,no wonder ,jehoiakim despised him1 and hated all he wrote4 ,one can easily see the character of ,jeremiah from the following occurrence3 ,when the ,babylonians #aci had succeeded in taking ,jerusalem1 and in sacking the city1 ,jeremiah was unfortunately taken prisoner2 but ,captain ,nebuzaradan came to ,jeremiah1 and told him that he would let him go1 because he had pro- phesied against his own country4 ,he was regarded as a friend by the enemy4 ,there was1 at that time1 as now1 the old fight between the church and the civil power4 ,whenever a king failed to do what the priests wanted1 they immediately prophesied overthrow1 disaster1 and de- feat4 ,whenever the kings would hearken to their voice1 and would see to it that the priests had plenty to eat and drink and wear1 then they all declared that ,jehovah would love that king1 would let him live out all his days1 and allow his son to reign in his stead4 ,it was simply the old conflict that is still being waged1 and it will be carried on until universal civil- ization does away with priestcraft and superstition4 ,the priests in the days of ,jeremiah were the same as now4 ,they sought to rule the ,state4 ,they pre- tended that1 at their request1 ,jehovah would withhold or send the rain2 that the seasons were within their power2 that they with bitter words could blight the fields and curse the land with want and death4 ,they gloried then1 as now1 in the exhibition of ,god's wrath4 #adj ,in prosperity1 the priests were forgotten4 ,success scorned them2 ,famine flattered them2 ,health laughed at them2 ,pestilence prayed to them2 ,disaster was their only friend4 ,these old prophets prophesied nothing but evil1 and consequently1 when anything bad happened1 they claimed it as a fulfillment1 and pointed with pride to the fact that they had1 weeks or months1 or years before1 foretold something of that kind4 ,they were really the originators of the phrase1 ,i told you so6 ,there was a good old ,methodist class-leader that lived down near a place called ,liverpool1 on the ,illinois river4 ,in the spring of #ahfa the old man1 telling his experience1 among other things said1 that he had lived there by the river for more than thirty years1 and he did not believe that a year had passed that there were not hundreds of people during the hunting season shooting ducks on ,sunday2 that he had told his wife thousands of times that no good would come of it2 that evil would come of it2 ,and now1 said the old man1 raising his voice with the importance of the announcement1 war is upon us6 ,question4 ,do you wish1 as ,mr4 ,talmage says1 to de- stroy the ,bible--to have all the copies burned to ashes8 ,what do you wish to have done with the ,bible8 #ada ,answer4 ,i want the ,bible treated exactly as we treat other books--preserve the good and throw away the foolish and the hurtful4 ,i am fighting the doctrine of inspiration4 ,as long as it is believed that the ,bible is inspired1 that book is the master--no mind is free4 ,with that belief1 intellectual liberty is impossible4 ,with that belief1 you can investigate only at the risk of losing your soul4 ,the ,catholics have a pope4 ,protestants laugh at them1 and yet the pope is capable of intellectual advancement4 ,in addition to this1 the pope is mortal1 and the church cannot be afflicted with the same idiot forever4 ,the ,protestants have a book for their pope4 ,the book cannot advance4 ,year after year1 and century after century1 the book remains as ignorant as ever4 ,it is only made better by those who believe in its inspira- tion giving better meanings to the words than their ancestors did4 ,in this way it may be said that the ,bible grows a little better4 ,why should we have a book for a master8 ,that which otherwise might be a blessing1 remains a curse4 ,if every copy of the ,bible were destroyed1 all that is good in that book would be reproduced in a single day4 ,leave every copy of the ,bible as it is1 and have every human being believe in its inspiration1 #adb and intellectual liberty would cease to exist4 ,the whole race1 from that moment1 would go back to- ward the night of intellectual death4 ,the ,bible would do more harm if more people really believed it1 and acted in accordance with its teachings4 ,now and then a ,freeman puts the knife to the heart of his child4 ,now and then an assassin relies upon some sacred passage2 but1 as a rule1 few men believe the ,bible to be absolutely true4 ,there are about fifteen hundred million people in the world4 ,there are not two million who have read the ,bible through4 ,there are not two hundred million who ever saw the ,bible4 ,there are not five hundred million who ever heard that such a book exists4 ,christianity is claimed to be a religion for all mankind4 ,it was founded more than eighteen cen- turies ago2 and yet1 not one human being in three has ever heard of it4 ,as a matter of fact1 for more than fourteen centuries and-a-half after the crucifixion of ,christ1 this hemisphere was absolutely unknown4 ,there was not a ,christian in the world who knew there was such a continent as ours1 and all the inhabitants of this1 the ,new ,world1 were deprived of the gospel for fourteen centuries and-a-half1 and #adc knew nothing of its blessings until they were in- formed by ,spanish murderers and marauders4 ,even in the ,united ,states1 ,christianity is not keeping pace with the increase of population4 ,when we take into consideration that it is aided by the momentum of eighteen centuries1 is it not wonderful that it is not to-day holding its own8 ,the reason of this is1 that we are beginning to understand the ,scriptures4 ,we are beginningto see1 and to see clearly1 that they are simply of human origin1 and that the ,bible bears the marks of the barbarians who wrote it4 ,the best educated among the clergy admit that we know but little as to the origin of the gospels2 that we do not positively know the author of one of them2 that it is really a matter of doubt as to who wrote the five books attributed to ,moses4 ,they admit now1 that ,isaiah was written by more than one person2 that ,solomon's ,song was not written by that king2 that ,job is1 in all probability1 not a ,jewish book2 that ,ecclesiastes must have been written by a ,freethinker1 and by one who had his doubts about the immortality of the soul4 ,the best biblical students of the so- called orthodox world now admit that several stories were united to make the gospel of ,saint ,luke2 that ,hebrews is a selection from many fragments1 and #add that no human being1 not afflicted with delirium tremens1 can understand the book of ,revelation4 ,i am not the only one engaged in the work of destruction4 ,every ,protestant who expresses a doubt as to the genuineness of a passage1 is destroying the ,bible4 ,the gentlemen who have endeavored to treat hell as a question of syntax1 and to prove that eternal punishment depends upon grammar1 are helping to bring the ,scriptures into contempt4 ,hundreds of years ago1 the ,catholics told the ,protestant world that it was dangerous to give the ,bible to the people4 ,the ,catholics were right2 the ,protestants were wrong4 ,to read is to think4 ,to think is to investi- gate4 ,to investigate is1 finally1 to deny4 ,that book should have been read only by priests4 ,every copy should have been under the lock and key of bishop1 cardinal and pope4 ,the common people should have received the ,bible from the lips of the ministers4 ,the world should have been kept in ignorance4 ,in that way1 and in that way only1 could the pulpit have maintained its power4 ,he who teaches a child the alphabet sows the seeds of heresy4 ,i have lived to see the schoolhouse in many a village larger than the church4 ,every man who finds a fact1 is the enemy of theology4 ,every man who expresses an #ade honest thought is a soldier in the army of intellectual liberty4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage thinks that you laugh too much1--that you exhibit too much mirth1 and that no one should smile at sacred things8 ,answer4 ,the church has always feared ridicule4 ,the minister despises laughter4 ,he who builds upon ignorance and awe1 fears intelligence and mirth4 ,the theologians always begin by saying3 ,let us be solemn4 ,they know that credulity and awe are twins4 ,they also know that while ,reason is the pilot of the soul1 ,humor carries the lamp4 ,whoever has the sense of humor fully developed1 cannot1 by any possibility1 be an orthodox theologian4 ,he would be his own laughing stock4 ,the most absurd stories1 the most laughable miracles1 read in a solemn1 stately way1 sound to the ears of ignorance and awe like truth4 ,it has been the object of the church for eighteen hundred years to prevent laughter4 ,a smile is the dawn of a doubt4 ,ministers are always talking about death1 and coffins1 and dust1 and worms1--the cross in this life1 and the fires of another4 ,they have been the enemies of human happiness4 ,they hate to hear #adf even the laughter of children4 ,there seems to have been a bond of sympathy between divinity and dyspepsia1 between theology and indigestion4 ,there is a certain pious hatred of pleasure1 and those who have been born again are expected to despise the transitory joys of this fleeting life4 ,in this1 they follow the example of their prophets1 of whom they proudly say3 ,they never smiled4 ,whoever laughs at a holy falsehood1 is called a scoffer4 ,whoever gives vent to his natural feel- ings is regarded as a blasphemer1 and whoever examines the ,bible as he examines other books1 and relies upon his reason to interpret it1 is denounced as a reprobate4 ,let us respect the truth1 let us laugh at miracles1 and above all1 let us be candid with each other4 ',question4 ,mr4 ,talmage charges that you have1 in your lectures1 satirized your early home2 that you have described with bitterness the ,sundays that were forced upon you in your youth2 and that in various ways you have denounced your father as a tyrant1 or a bigot1 or a fool8 ,answer4 ,i have described the manner in which ,sunday was kept when ,i was a boy4 ,my father for #adg many years regarded the ,sabbath as a sacred day4 ,we kept ,sunday as most other ,christians did4 ,i think that my father made a mistake about that day4 ,i have no doubt he was honest about it1 and really believed that it was pleasing to ,god for him to keep the ,sabbath as he did4 ,i think that ,sunday should not be a day of gloom1 of silence and despair1 or a day in which to hear that the chances are largely in favor of your being eternally damned4 ,that day1 in my opinion1 should be one of joy2 a day to get acquainted with your wife and children2 a day to visit the woods1 or the sea1 or the murmuring stream2 a day to gather flowers1 to visit the graves of your dead1 to read old poems1 old letters1 old books2 a day to rekindle the fires of friendship and love4 ,mr4 ,talmage says that my father was a ,christian1 and he then proceeds to malign his memory4 ,it seems to me that a living ,christian should at least tell the truth about one who sleeps the silent sleep of death4 ,i have said nothing1 in any of my lectures1 about my father1 or about my mother1 or about any of my relatives4 ,i have not the egotism to bring them forward4 ,they have nothing to do with the subject #adh in hand4 ,that my father was mistaken upon the subject of religion1 ,i have no doubt4 ,he was a good1 a brave and honest man4 ,i loved him living1 and ,i love him dead4 ,i never said to him an unkind word1 and in my heart there never was of him an unkind thought4 ,he was grand enough to say to me1 that ,i had the same right to my opinion that he had to his4 ,he was great enough to tell me to read the ,bible for myself1 to be honest with myself1 and if after reading it ,i concluded it was not the word of ,god1 that it was my duty to say so4 ,my mother died when ,i was but a child2 and from that day--the darkest of my life--her memory has been within my heart a sacred thing1 and ,i have felt1 through all these years1 her kisses on my lips4 ,i know that my parents--if they are conscious now --do not wish me to honor them at the expense of my manhood4 ,i know that neither my father nor my mother would have me sacrifice upon their graves my honest thought4 ,i know that ,i can only please them by being true to myself1 by defending what ,i believe is good1 by attacking what ,i believe is bad4 ,yet this min- ister of ,christ is cruel enough1 and malicious enough1 to attack the reputation of the dead4 ,what he says about my father is utterly and unqualifiedly false4 #adi ,right here1 it may be well enough for me to say1 that long before my father died1 he threw aside1 as unworthy of a place in the mind of an intelligent man1 the infamous dogma of eternal fire2 that he regarded with abhorrence many passages in the ,old ,testament2 that he believed man1 in another world1 would have the eternal opportunity of doing right1 and that the pity of ,god would last as long as the suffering of man4 ,my father and my mother were good1 in spite of the ,old ,testament4 ,they were mer- ciful1 in spite of the one frightful doctrine in the ,new4 ,they did not need the religion of ,presbyterianism4 ,presbyterianism never made a human being better4 ,if there is anything that will freeze the generous current of the soul1 it is ,calvinism4 ,if there is any creed that will destroy charity1 that will keep the tears of pity from the cheeks of men and women1 it is ,presbyterianism4 ,if there is any doctrine calcu- lated to make man bigoted1 unsympathetic1 and cruel1 it is the doctrine of predestination4 ,neither my father1 nor my mother1 believed in the damnation of babes1 nor in the inspiration of ,john ,calvin4 ,mr4 ,talmage professes to be a ,christian4 ,what effect has the religion of ,jesus ,christ had upon him8 ,is he the product--the natural product--of ,chris- #aej tianity8 ,does the real ,christian violate the sanctity of death8 ,does the real ,christian malign the memory of the dead8 ,does the good ,christian defame unanswering and unresisting dust8 ,but why should ,i expect kindness from a ,chris- tian8 ,can a minister be expected to treat with fairness a man whom his ,god intends to damn8 ,if a good ,god is going to burn an infidel forever1 in the world to come1 surely a ,christian should have the right to persecute him a little here4 ,what right has a ,christian to ask anybody to love his father1 or mother1 or wife1 or child8 ,according to the gospels1 ,christ offered a reward to any one who would desert his father or his mother4 ,he offered a premium to gentlemen for leaving their wives1 and tried to bribe people to abandon their little children4 ,he offered them happiness in this world1 and a hundred fold in the next1 if they would turn a deaf ear to the supplications of a father1 the beseeching cry of a wife1 and would leave the out- stretched arms of babes4 ,they were not even allowed to bury their fathers and their mothers4 ,at that time they were expected to prefer ,jesus to their wives and children4 ,and now an orthodox minister says that a man ought not to express his honest #aea thoughts1 because they do not happen to be in accord with the belief of his father or mother4 ,suppose ,mr4 ,talmage should read the ,bible care- fully and without fear1 and should come to the honest conclusion that it is not inspired1 what course would he pursue for the purpose of honoring his parents8 ,would he say1 ,i cannot tell the truth1 ,i must lie1 for the purpose of shedding a halo of glory around the memory of my mother8 ,would he say3 ,of course1 my father and mother would a thousand times rather have their son a hypocritical ,christian than an honest1 manly unbeliever8 ,this might please ,mr4 ,talmage1 and accord perfectly with his view1 but ,i prefer to say1 that my father wished me to be an honest man4 ,if he is in heaven now1 ,i am sure that he would rather hear me attack the inspired word of ,god1 honestly and bravely1 than to hear me1 in the solemn accents of hypocrisy1 defend what ,i believe to be untrue4 ,i may be mistaken in the estimate angels put upon human beings4 ,it may be that ,god likes a pretended follower better than an honest1 outspoken man--one who is an infidel simply because he does not under- stand this ,god4 ,but it seems to me1 in my unregenerate condition1 touched and tainted as ,i am by original sin1 #aeb that a ,god of infinite power and wisdom ought to be able to make a man brave enough to have an opinion of his own4 ,i cannot conceive of ,god taking any particular pride in any hypocrite he has ever made4 ,whatever he may say through his ministers1 or whatever the angels may repeat1 a manly devil stands higher in my estimation than an unmanly angel4 ,i do not mean by this1 that there are any unmanly angels1 neither do ,i pretend that there are any manly devils4 ,my meaning is this3 ,if ,i have a ,creator1 ,i can only honor him by being true to myself1 and kind and just to my fellow-men4 ,if ,i wish to shed lustre upon my father and mother1 ,i can only do so by being absolutely true to myself4 ,never will ,i lay the wreath of hypocrisy upon the tombs of those ,i love4 ,mr4 ,talmage takes the ground that we must defend the religious belief of our parents4 ,he seems to forget that all parents do not believe exactly alike1 and that everybody has at least two parents4 ,now1 suppose that the father is an infidel1 and the mother a ,christian1 what must the son do8 ,must he drive the ploughshare of contempt through the grave of the father1 for the purpose of honoring the mother2 or must he drive the ploughshare through the grave #aec of the mother to honor the father2 or must he com- promise1 and talk one way and believe another8 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage's doctrine is correct1 only persons who have no knowledge of their parents can have liberty of opinion4 ,foundlings would be the only free people4 ,i do not suppose that ,mr4 ,talmage would go so far as to say that a child would be bound by the religion of the person upon whose door-steps he was found4 ,if he does not1 then over every foundling hospital should be these words3 ,home of ,intel- lectual ,liberty4 ,question4 ,do you suppose that we will care nothing in the next world for those we loved in this8 ,is it worse in a man than in an angel1 to care nothing for his mother8 ,answer4 ,according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 a man can be perfectly happy in heaven1 with his mother in hell4 ,he will be so entranced with the society of ,christ1 that he will not even inquire what has become of his wife4 ,the ,holy ,ghost will keep him in such a state of happy wonder1 of ecstatic joy1 that the names1 even1 of his children will never invade his memory4 ,it may be that ,i am lacking in filial affection1 but ,i would much rather be in hell1 with my parents #aed in heaven1 than be in heaven with my parents in hell4 ,i think a thousand times more of my parents than ,i do of ,christ4 ,they knew me1 they worked for me1 they loved me1 and ,i can imagine no heaven1 no state of perfect bliss for me1 in which they have no share4 ,if ,god hates me1 because ,i love them1 ,i cannot love him4 ,i cannot truthfully say that ,i look forward with any great degree of joy1 to meeting with ,haggai and ,habakkuk2 with ,jeremiah1 ,nehemiah1 ,obadiah1 ,zechariah or ,zephaniah2 with ,ezekiel1 ,micah1 or ,malachi2 or even with ,jonah4 ,from what little ,i have read of their writings1 ,i have not formed a very high opinion of the social qualities of these gentlemen4 ,i want to meet the persons ,i have known2 and if there is another life1 ,i want to meet the really and the truly great--men who have been broad enough to be tender1 and great enough to be kind4 ,because ,i differ with my parents1 because ,i am convinced that my father was wrong in some of his religious opinions1 ,mr4 ,talmage insists that ,i dis- grace my parents4 ,how did the ,christian religion commence8 ,did not the first disciples advocate theories that their parents denied8 ,were they #aee not false1--in his sense of the word1--to their fathers and mothers8 ,how could there have been any progress in this world1 if children had not gone beyond their parents8 ,do you consider that the inventor of a steel plow cast a slur upon his father who scratched the ground with a wooden one8 ,i do not consider that an invention by the son is a slander upon the father2 ,i regard each invention simply as an improvement2 and every father should be exceedingly proud of an ingenious son4 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage has a son1 it will be impossible for him to honor his father except by differing with him4 ,it is very strange that ,mr4 ,talmage1 a believer in ,christ1 should object to any man for not loving his mother and his father1 when his ,master1 according to the gospel of ,saint ,luke1 says3 ,if any man come to me1 and hate not his father1 and mother1 and wife1 and children1 and brethren1 and sis- ters1 yea1 and his own life also1 he cannot be my disciple4 ,according to this1 ,i have to make my choice be- tween my wife1 my children1 and ,jesus ,christ4 ,i have concluded to stand by my folks--both in this world1 and in the world to come4 #aef ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage asks you whether1 in your judgment1 the ,bible was a good1 or an evil1 to your parents8 ,answer4 ,i think it was an evil4 ,the worst thing about my father was his religion4 ,he would have been far happier1 in my judgment1 without it4 ,i think ,i get more real joy out of life than he did4 ,he was a man of a very great and tender heart4 ,he was continually thinking--for many years of his life--of the thousands and thousands going down to eternal fire4 ,that doctrine filled his days with gloom1 and his eyes with tears4 ,i think that my father and mother would have been far happier had they believed as ,i do4 ,how any one can get any joy out of the ,christian religion is past my compre- hension4 ,if that religion is true1 hundreds of mil- lions are now in hell1 and thousands of millions yet unborn will be4 ,how such a fact can form any part of the glad tidings of great joy1 is amazing to me4 ,it is impossible for me to love a being who would create countless millions for eternal pain4 ,it is impossible for me to worship the ,god of the ,bible1 or the ,god of ,calvin1 or the ,god of the ,westminster ,catechism4 #aeg ,question4 ,i see that ,mr4 ,talmage challenges you to read the fourteenth chapter of ,saint ,john4 ,are you willing to accept the challenge2 or have you ever read that chapter8 ,answer4 ,i do not claim to be very courageous1 but ,i have read that chapter1 and am very glad that ,mr4 ,talmage has called attention to it4 ,according to the gospels1 ,christ did many miracles4 ,he healed the sick1 gave sight to the blind1 made the lame walk1 and raised the dead4 ,in the fourteenth chapter of ,saint ,john1 twelfth verse1 ,i find the following3 ,verily1 verily1 ,i say unto you3 ,he that believeth on me1 the works that ,i do shall he do also2 and greater works than these shall he do1 because ,i go unto my ,father4 ,i am willing to accept that as a true test of a believer4 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage really believes in ,jesus ,christ1 he ought to be able to do at least as great miracles as ,christ is said to have done4 ,will ,mr4 ,talmage have the kindness to read the fourteenth chapter of ,john1 and then give me some proof1 in accordance with that chapter1 that he is a believer in ,jesus ,christ8 ,will he have the kindness to perform a miracle8--for instance1 produce a local flood1 make a worm to smite a gourd1 or prepare a fish8 #aeh ,can he do anything of that nature8 ,can he even cause a vehement east wind8 ,what evidence1 according to the ,bible1 can ,mr4 ,talmage give of his belief8 ,how does he prove that he is a ,christian8 ,by hating infidels and maligning ,christians8 ,let ,mr4 ,talmage furnish the evidence1 according to the fourteenth chapter of ,saint ,john1 or forever after hold his peace4 ,he has my thanks for calling my attention to the fourteenth chapter of ,saint ,john4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage charges that you are at- tempting to destroy the chief solace of the world1 without offering any substitute4 ,how do you answer this8 ,answer4 ,if he calls ,christianity the chief solace of the world1 and if by ,christianity he means that all who do not believe in the inspiration of the ,scrip- tures1 and have no faith in ,jesus ,christ1 are to be eternally damned1 then ,i admit that ,i am doing the best ,i can to take that solace from the human heart4 ,i do not believe that the ,bible1 when prop- erly understood1 is1 or ever has been1 a comfort to any human being4 ,surely1 no good man can be comforted by reading a book in which he finds that #aei a large majority of mankind have been sentenced to eternal fire4 ,in the doctrine of total depravity there is no solace4 ,in the doctrine of election there can be no joy until the returns are in1 and a majority found for you4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage says that you are taking away the world's medicines1 and in place of anaes- thetics1 in place of laudanum drops1 you read an essay to the man in pain1 on the absurdities of mor- phine and nervines in general4 ,answer4 ,it is exactly the other way4 ,i say1 let us depend upon morphine1 not upon prayer4 ,do not send for the minister--take a little laudanum4 ,do not read your ,bible1--chloroform is better4 ,do not waste your time listening to meaningless ser- mons1 but take real1 genuine soporifics4 ,i regard the discoverer of ether as a benefactor4 ,i look upon every great surgeon as a blessing to mankind4 ,i regard one doctor1 skilled in his profes- sion1 of more importance to the world than all the orthodox ministers4 ,mr4 ,talmage should remember that for hundreds of years1 the church fought1 with all its power1 the science of medicine4 ,priests used to cure diseases #afj by selling little pieces of paper covered with cabalistic marks4 ,they filled their treasuries by the sale of holy water4 ,they healed the sick by relics--the teeth and ribs of saints1 the finger-nails of departed wor- thies1 and the hair of glorified virgins4 ,infidelity said3 ,send for the doctor4 ,theology said3 ,stick to the priest4 ,infidelity1--that is to say1 science1-- said3 ,vaccinate him4 ,the priest said3 ,pray2-- ,i will sell you a charm4 ,the doctor was regarded as a man who was endeavoring to take from ,god his means of punishment4 ,he was supposed to spike the artillery of ,jehovah1 to wet the powder of the ,almighty1 and to steal the flint from the musket of heavenly retribution4 ,infidelity has never relied upon essays1 it has never relied upon words1 it has never relied upon prayers1 it has never relied upon angels or gods2 it has relied upon the honest efforts of men and women4 ,it has relied upon investigation1 observation1 experi- ence1 and above all1 upon human reason4 ,we1 in ,america1 know how much prayers are worth4 ,we have lately seen millions of people upon their knees4 ,what was the result8 ,in the olden times1 when a plague made its ap- pearance1 the people fell upon their knees and died4 #afa ,when pestilence came1 they rushed to their ca- thedrals1 they implored their priests--and died4 ,god had no pity upon his ignorant children4 ,at last1 ,science came to the rescue4 ,science1--not in the attitude of prayer1 with closed eyes1 but in the atti- tude of investigation1 with open eyes1--looked for and discovered some of the laws of health4 ,science found that cleanliness was far better than godliness4 ,it said3 ,do not spend your time in praying2--clean your houses1 clean your streets1 clean yourselves4 ,this pest- ilence is not a punishment4 ,health is not simply a favor of the gods4 ,health depends upon conditions1 and when the conditions are violated1 disease is inevitable1 and no ,god can save you4 ,health depends upon your surroundings1 and when these are favorable1 the roses are in your cheeks4 ,we find in the ,old ,testament that ,god gave to ,moses a thousand directions for ascertaining the presence of leprosy4 ,yet it never occurred to this ,god to tell ,moses how to cure the disease4 ,within the lids of the ,old ,testament1 we have no information upon a subject of such vital importance to mankind4 ,it may1 however1 be claimed by ,mr4 ,talmage1 that this statement is a little too broad1 and ,i will therefore #afb give one recipe that ,i find in the fourteenth chapter of ,leviticus3 ,then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean1 and cedar wood1 and scarlet1 and hyssop2 and the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water4 ,as for the living bird1 he shall take it1 and the cedar wood1 and the scarlet1 and the hyssop1 and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water4 ,and he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times1 and shall pronounce him clean1 and shall let the living bird loose into the open field4 ,prophets were predicting evil--filling the country with their wails and cries1 and yet it never occurred to them to tell one solitary thing of the slightest importance to mankind4 ,why did not these inspired men tell us how to cure some of the diseases that have decimated the world8 ,instead of spending forty days and forty nights with ,moses1 telling him how to build a large tent1 and how to cut the gar- ments of priests1 why did ,god not give him a little useful information in respect to the laws of health8 #afc ,mr4 ,talmage must remember that the church has invented no anodynes1 no anaesthetics1 no medicines1 and has affected no cures4 ,the doctors have not been inspired4 ,all these useful things men have discovered for themselves1 aided by no prophet and by no divine ,savior4 ,just to the extent that man has depended upon the other world1 he has failed to make the best of this4 ,just in the proportion that he has depended on his own efforts1 he has advanced4 ,the church has always said3 ,consider the lilies of the field2 they toil not1 neither do they spin4 ,take no thought for the morrow4 ,whereas1 the real common sense of this world has said3 ,no matter whether lilies toil and spin1 or not1 if you would succeed1 you must work2 you must take thought for the morrow1 you must look beyond the present day1 you must provide for your wife and your children4 ,what can ,i be expected to give as a substitute for perdition8 ,it is enough to show that it does not exist4 ,what does a man want in place of a disease8 ,health4 ,and what is better calculated to increase the happiness of mankind than to know that the doctrine of eternal pain is infinitely and absurdly false8 #afd ,take theology from the world1 and natural ,love remains1 ,science is still here1 ,music will not be lost1 the page of ,history will still be open1 the walls of the world will still be adorned with ,art1 and the niches rich with ,sculpture4 ,take theology from the world1 and we all shall have a common hope1--and the fear of hell will be removed from every human heart4 ,take theology from the world1 and millions of men will be compelled to earn an honest living4 ,impudence will not tax credulity4 ,the vampire of hypocrisy will not suck the blood of honest toil4 ,take theology from the world1 and the churches can be schools1 and the cathedrals universities4 ,take theology from the world1 and the money wasted on superstition will do away with want4 ,take theology from the world1 and every brain will find itself without a chain4 ,there is a vast difference between what is called infidelity and theology4 ,infidelity is honest4 ,when it reaches the confines of reason1 it says3 ,i know no further4 ,infidelity does not palm its guess upon an ignorant world as a demonstration4 #afe ,infidelity proves nothing by slander--establishes nothing by abuse4 ,infidelity has nothing to hide4 ,it has no holy of holies1 except the abode of truth4 ,it has no curtain that the hand of investigation has not the right to draw aside4 ,it lives in the cloudless light1 in the very noon1 of human eyes4 ,infidelity has no bible to be blasphemed4 ,it does not cringe before an angry ,god4 ,infidelity says to every man3 ,investigate for yourself4 ,there is no punishment for unbelief4 ,infidelity asks no protection from legislatures4 ,it wants no man fined because he contradicts its doc- trines4 ,infidelity relies simply upon evidence--not evi- dence of the dead1 but of the living4 ,infidelity has no infallible pope4 ,it relies only upon infallible fact4 ,it has no priest except the interpreter of ,nature4 ,the universe is its church4 ,its bible is everything that is true4 ,it implores every man to verify every word for himself1 and it implores him to say1 if he does not believe it1 that he does not4 ,infidelity does not fear contradiction4 ,it is not afraid of being laughed at4 ,it invites the scrutiny #aff of all doubters1 of all unbelievers4 ,it does not rely upon awe1 but upon reason4 ,it says to the whole world3 ,it is dangerous not to think4 ,it is dan- gerous not to be honest4 ,it is dangerous not to investigate4 ,it is dangerous not to follow where your reason leads4 ,infidelity requires every man to judge for himself4 ,infidelity preserves the manhood of man4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage also says that you are trying to put out the light-houses on the coast of the next world2 that you are about to leave everybody in darkness at the narrows of death8 ,answer4 ,there can be no necessity for these light-houses1 unless the ,god of ,mr4 ,talmage has planted rocks and reefs within that unknown sea4 ,if there is no hell1 there is no need of any light- house on the shores of the next world2 and only those are interested in keeping up these pretended light-houses who are paid for trimming invisible wicks and supplying the lamps with allegorical oil4 ,mr4 ,talmage is one of these light-house keepers1 and he knows that if it is ascertained that the coast is not dangerous1 the light-house will be abandoned1 and the keeper will have to find employment else- #afg where4 ,as a matter of fact1 every church is a use- less light-house4 ,it warns us only against breakers that do not exist4 ,whenever a mariner tells one of the keepers that there is no danger1 then all the keepers combine to destroy the reputation of that mariner4 ,no one has returned from the other world to tell us whether they have light-houses on that shore or not2 or whether the light-houses on this shore--one of which ,mr4 ,talmage is tending--have ever sent a cheering ray across the sea4 ,nature has furnished every human being with a light more or less brilliant1 more or less powerful4 ,that light is ,reason2 and he who blows that light out1 is in utter darkness4 ,it has been the business of the church for centuries to extinguish the lamp of the mind1 and to convince the people that their own reason is utterly unreliable4 ,the church has asked all men to rely only upon the light of the church4 ,every priest has been not only a light-house but a guide-board4 ,he has threatened eternal damna- tion to all who travel on some other road4 ,these guide-boards have been toll-gates1 and the principal reason why the churches have wanted people to go their road is1 that tolls might be collected4 ,they #afh have regarded unbelievers as the owners of turnpikes do people who go 'cross lots4 ,the toll-gate man always tells you that other roads are dangerous-- filled with quagmires and quicksands4 ,every church is a kind of insurance society1 and proposes1 for a small premium1 to keep you from eternal fire4 ,of course1 the man who tells you that there is to be no fire1 interferes with the business1 and is denounced as a malicious meddler and blas- phemer4 ,the fires of this world sustain the same relation to insurance companies that the fires of the next do to the churches4 ,mr4 ,talmage also insists that ,i am breaking up the life-boats4 ,why should a ship built by infinite wisdom1 by an infinite shipbuilder1 carry life-boats8 ,the reason we have life-boats now is1 that we are not entirely sure of the ship4 ,we know that man has not yet found out how to make a ship that can certainly brave all the dangers of the deep4 ,for this reason we carry life-boats4 ,but infinite wisdom must surely build ships that do not need life-boats4 ,is there to be a wreck at last8 ,is ,god's ship to go down in storm and darkness8 ,will it be necessary at last to forsake his ship and depend upon life-boats8 ,for my part1 ,i do not wish to be rescued by a life- #afi boat4 ,when the ship1 bearing the whole world1 goes down1 ,i am willing to go down with it--with my wife1 with my children1 and with those ,i have loved4 ,i will not slip ashore in an orthodox canoe with somebody else's folks1--,i will stay with my own4 ,what a picture is presented by the church6 ,a few in life's last storm are to be saved2 and the saved1 when they reach shore1 are to look back with joy upon the great ship going down to the eternal depths6 ,this is what ,i call the unutterable meanness of or- thodox ,christianity4 ,mr4 ,talmage speaks of the meanness of in- fidelity4 ,the meanness of orthodox ,christianity permits the husband to be saved1 and to be ineffably happy1 while the wife of his bosom is suffering the tortures of hell4 ,the meanness of orthodox ,christianity tells the boy that he can go to heaven and have an eternity of bliss1 and that this bliss will not even be clouded by the fact that the mother who bore him writhes in eternal pain4 ,the meanness of orthodox ,christianity allows a soul to be so captivated with the companionship of angels as to forget all the old loves and friend- ships of this world4 #agj ,the meanness of orthodox ,christianity1 its un- speakable selfishness1 allows a soul in heaven to exult in the fact of its own salvation1 and at the same time to care nothing for the damnation of all the rest4 ,the orthodox ,christian says that if he can only save his little soul1 if he can barely squeeze into heaven1 if he can only get past ,saint ,peter's gate1 if he can by hook or crook climb up the opposite bank of ,jordan1 if he can get a harp in his hand1 it matters not to him what becomes of brother or sister1 father or mother1 wife or child4 ,he is willing that they should burn if he can sing4 ,oh1 the unutterable meanness of orthodox ,chris- tianity1 the infinite heartlessness of the orthodox angels1 who with tearless eyes will forever gaze upon the agonies of those who were once blood of their blood and flesh of their flesh6 ,mr4 ,talmage describes a picture of the scourging of ,christ1 painted by ,rubens1 and he tells us that he was so appalled by this picture--by the sight of the naked back1 swollen and bleeding--that he could not have lived had he continued to look2 yet this same man1 who could not bear to gaze upon a painted pain1 expects to be perfectly happy in heaven1 while countiess billions of actual--not painted--men1 #aga women1 and children writhe--not in a pictured flame1 but in the real and quenchless fires of hell4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage also claims that we are indebted to ,christianity for schools1 colleges1 univer- sities1 hospitals and asylums8 ,answer4 ,this shows that ,mr4 ,talmage has not read the history of the world4 ,long before ,chris- tianity had a place1 there were vast libraries4 ,there were thousands of schools before a ,christian existed on the earth4 ,there were hundreds of hospitals before a line of the ,new ,testament was written4 ,hundreds of years before ,christ1 there were hospitals in ,india1--not only for men1 women and children1 but even for beasts4 ,there were hospitals in ,egypt long before ,moses was born4 ,they knew enough then to cure insanity with music4 ,they surrounded the insane with flowers1 and treated them with kindness4 ,the great libraries at ,alexandria were not ,chris- tian4 ,the most intellectual nation of the ,middle ,ages was not ,christian4 ,while ,christians were imprisoning people for saying that the earth is round1 the ,moors in ,spain were teaching geography with globes4 ,they had even calculated the circumference of the earth by the tides of the ,red ,sea4 ,where did education come from8 ,for a thousand #agb years ,christianity destroyed books and paintings and statues4 ,for a thousand years ,christianity was filled with hatred toward every effort of the human mind4 ,we got paper from the ,moors4 ,printing had been known thousands of years before1 in ,china4 ,a few manuscripts1 containing a portion of the literature of ,greece1 a few enriched with the best thoughts of the ,roman world1 had been preserved from the general wreck and ruin wrought by ,christian hate4 ,these became the seeds of intellectual progress4 ,for a thousand years ,christianity controlled ,europe4 ,the ,mohammedans were far in advance of the ,christians with hospitals and asylums and institutions of learning4 ,just in proportion that we have done away with what is known as orthodox ,christianity1 humanity has taken its place4 ,humanity has built all the asy- lums1 all the hospitals4 ,humanity1 not ,christianity1 has done these things4 ,the people of this country are all willing to be taxed that the insane may be cared for1 that the sick1 the helpless1 and the desti- tute may be provided for1 not because they are ,christians1 but because they are humane2 and they are not humane because they are ,christians4 ,the colleges of this country have been poisoned by #agc theology1 and their usefulness almost destroyed4 ,just in proportion that they have gotten from ecclesiastical control1 they have become a good4 ,that college1 to- day1 which has the most religion has the least true learning2 and that college which is the nearest free1 does the most good4 ,colleges that pit ,moses against modern geology1 that undertake to overthrow the ,copernican system by appealing to ,joshua1 have done1 and are doing1 very little good in this world4 ,suppose that in the first century ,pagans had said to ,christians3 ,where are your hospitals1 where are your asylums1 where are your works of charity1 where are your colleges and universities8 ,the ,christians undoubtedly would have replied3 ,we have not been in power4 ,there are but few of us4 ,we have been persecuted to that degree that it has been about as much as we could do to maintain ourselves4 ,reasonable ,pagans would have regarded such an answer as perfectly satisfactory4 ,yet that question could have been asked of ,christianity after it had held the reins of power for a thousand years1 and ,christians would have been compelled to say3 ,we have no universities1 we have no colleges1 we have no real asylums4 #agd ,the ,christian now asks of the atheist3 ,where is your asylum1 where is your hospital1 where is your university8 ,and the atheist answers3 ,there have been but few atheists4 ,the world is not yet suffi- ciently advanced to produce them4 ,for hundreds and hundreds of years1 the minds of men have been darkened by the superstitions of ,christianity4 ,priests have thundered against human knowledge1 have de- nounced human reason1 and have done all within their power to prevent the real progress of mankind4 ,you must also remember that ,christianity has made more lunatics than it ever provided asylums for4 ,christianity has driven more men and women crazy than all other religions combined4 ,hundreds and thousands and millions have lost their reason in contemplating the monstrous falsehoods of ,chris- tianity4 ,thousands of mothers1 thinking of their sons in hell--thousands of fathers1 believing their boys and girls in perdition1 have lost their reason4 ,so1 let it be distinctly understood1 that ,christianity has made ten lunatics--twenty--one hundred-- where it has provided an asylum for one4 ,mr4 ,talmage also speaks of the hospitals4 ,when we take into consideration the wars that have been waged on account of religion1 the countless thou- #age sands who have been maimed and wounded1 through all the years1 by wars produced by theology--then ,i say that ,christianity has not built hospitals enough to take care of her own wounded--not enough to take care of one in a hundred4 ,where ,christianity has bound up the wounds of one1 it has pierced the bodies of a hundred others with sword and spear1 with bayonet and ball4 ,where she has provided one bed in a hospital1 she has laid away a hundred bodies in bloody graves4 ,of course ,i do not expect the church to do anything but beg4 ,churches produce nothing4 ,they are like the lilies of the field4 ,they toil not1 neither do they spin1 yet ,solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like most of them4 ,the churches raise no corn nor wheat4 ,they simply collect tithes4 ,they carry the alms' dish4 ,they pass the plate4 ,they take toll4 ,of course a mendicant is not expected to produce anything4 ,he does not support1--he is supported4 ,the church does not help4 ,she receives1 she devours1 she consumes1 and she produces only discord4 ,she ex- changes mistakes for provisions1 faith for food1 prayers for pence4 ,the church is a beggar4 ,but we have this consolation3 ,in this age of the world1 this #agf beggar is not on horseback1 and even the walking is not good4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage says that infidels have done no good8 ,answer4 ,well1 let us see4 ,in the first place1 what is an infidel8 ,he is simply a man in advance of his time4 ,he is an intellectual pioneer4 ,he is the dawn of a new day4 ,he is a gentleman with an idea of his own1 for which he gave no receipt to the church4 ,he is a man who has not been branded as the property of some one else4 ,an infidel is one who has made a declaration of independence4 ,in other words1 he is a man who has had a doubt4 ,to have a doubt means that you have thought upon the subject--that you have investigated the question2 and he who investigates any religion will doubt4 ,all the advance that has been made in the religious world has been made by infidels1 by heretics1 by skeptics1 by doubters1--that is to say1 by thoughtful men4 ,the doubt does not come from the ignorant members of your congregations4 ,heresy is not born of stupidity1--it is not the child of the brain- less4 ,he who is so afraid of hurting the reputation of his father and mother that he refuses to advance1 #agg is not a heretic4 ,the heretic is not true to falsehood4 ,orthodoxy is4 ,he who stands faithfully by a mistake is orthodox4 ,he who1 discovering that it is a mistake1 has the courage to say so1 is an infidel4 ,an infidel is an intellectual discoverer--one who finds new isles1 new continents1 in the vast realm of thought4 ,the dwellers on the orthodox shore de- nounce this brave sailor of the seas as a buccaneer4 ,and yet we are told that the thinkers of new thoughts have never been of value to the world4 ,voltaire did more for human liberty than all the orthodox ministers living and dead4 ,he broke a thousand times more chains than ,luther4 ,luther simply substituted his chain for that of the ,catholics4 ,voltaire had none4 ,the ,encyclopaedists of ,france did more for liberty than all the writers upon theology4 ,bruno did more for mankind than millions of be- lievers4 ,spinoza contributed more to the growth of the human intellect than all the orthodox theolo- gians4 ,men have not done good simply because they have believed this or that doctrine4 ,they have done good in the intellectual world as they have thought and secured for others the liberty to think and to ex- #agh press their thoughts4 ,they have done good in the physical world by teaching their fellows how to triumph over the obstructions of nature4 ,every man who has taught his fellow-man to think1 has been a benefactor4 ,every one who has supplied his fellow-men with facts1 and insisted upon their right to think1 has been a blessing to his kind4 ,mr4 ,talmage1 in order to show what ,christians have done1 points us to ,whitefield1 ,luther1 ,oberlin1 ,judson1 ,martyn1 ,bishop ,mcllvaine and ,hannah ,more4 ,i would not for one moment compare ,george ,whitefield with the inventor of movable type1 and there is no parallel between ,frederick ,oberlin and the inventor of paper2 not the slightest between ,martin ,luther and the discoverer of the ,new ,world2 not the least between ,adoniram ,judson and the in- ventor of the reaper1 nor between ,henry ,martyn and the discoverer of photography4 ,of what use to the world was ,bishop ,mcllvaine1 compared with the inventor of needles8 ,of what use were a hundred such priests compared with the inventor of matches1 or even of clothes-pins8 ,suppose that ,hannah ,more had never lived8 about the same number would read her writings now4 ,it is hardly fair to compare her with the inventor of the steamship8 #agi ,the progress of the world--its present improved condition--can be accounted for only by the discov- eries of genius1 only by men who have had the courage to express their honest thoughts4 ,after all1 the man who invented the telescope found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of prayer had ever discovered4 ,i feel absolutely certain that the inventor of the steam engine was a greater benefactor to mankind than the writer of the ,presby- terian creed4 ,i may be mistaken1 but ,i think that railways have done more to civilize mankind1 than any system of theology4 ,i believe that the printing press has done more for the world than the pulpit4 ,it is my opinion that the discoveries of ,kepler did a thousand times more to enlarge the minds of men than the prophecies of ,daniel4 ,i feel under far greater obligation to ,humboldt than to ,haggai4 ,the inventor of the plow did more good than the maker of the first rosary--because1 say what you will1 plowing is better than praying2 we can live by plowing without praying1 but we can not live by praying without plowing4 ,so ,i put my faith in the plow4 ,as ,jehovah has ceased to make garments for his children1--as he has stopped making coats of skins1 #ahj ,i have great respect for the inventors of the spinning- jenny and the sewing machine4 ,as no more laws are given from ,sinai1 ,i have admiration for the real statesmen4 ,as miracles have ceased1 ,i rely on medicine1 and on a reasonable compliance with the conditions of health4 ,i have infinite respect for the inventors1 the thinkers1 the discoverers1 and above all1 for the un- known millions who have1 without the hope of fame1 lived and labored for the ones they loved4 ,,fifth ,,interview1 ,parson4 ,you had belter join the church2 it is the safer way4 ,sinner4 ,i can't live up to your doctrines1 and you know it4 ,parson4 ,well1 you can come as near it in the church as out2 and forgiveness will be easier if you join us4 ,sinner4 ,what do you mean by that8 ,parson4 ,i will tell you4 ,if you join the church1 and happen to back-slide now and then1 ,christ will say to his ,father3 ,that man is a friend of mine1 and you may charge his account to me4 ,question4 ,what have you to say about the fifth sermon of the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,talmage in reply to you8 ,answer4 ,the text from which he preached is3 ,do men gather grapes of thorns1 or figs of thistles8 ,i am compelled to answer these questions in the negative4 ,that is one reason why ,i am an infidel4 ,i do not believe that anybody can gather grapes of thorns1 or figs of thistles4 ,that is exactly my doctrine4 ,but the doctrine of the church is1 that you can4 ,the #ahd church says1 that just at the last1 no matter if you have spent your whole life in raising thorns and thistles1 in planting and watering and hoeing and plowing thorns and thistles--that just at the last1 if you will repent1 between hoeing the last thistle and taking the last breath1 you can reach out the white and palsied hand of death and gather from every thorn a cluster of grapes and from every thistle an abundance of figs4 ,the church insists that in this way you can gather enough grapes and figs to last you through all eternity4 ,my doctrine is1 that he who raises thorns must harvest thorns4 ,if you sow thorns1 you must reap thorns2 and there is no way by which an innocent being can have the thorns you raise thrust into his brow1 while you gather his grapes4 ,but ,christianity goes even further than this4 ,it insists that a man can plant grapes and gather thorns4 ,mr4 ,talmage insists that1 no matter how good you are1 no matter how kind1 no matter how much you love your wife and children1 no matter how many self-denying acts you do1 you will not be allowed to eat of the grapes you raise2 that ,god will step be- tween you and the natural consequences of your goodness1 and not allow you to reap what you sow4 #ahe ,mr4 ,talmage insists1 that if you have no faith in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ1 although you have been good here1 you will reap eternal pain as your harvest2 that the effect of honesty and kindness will not be peace and joy1 but agony and pain4 ,so that the church does insist not only that you can gather grapes from thorns1 but thorns from grapes4 ,i believe exactly the other way4 ,if a man is a good man here1 dying will not change him1 and he will land on the shore of another world--if there is one--the same good man that he was when he left this2 and ,i do not believe there is any ,god in this universe who can afford to damn a good man4 ,this ,god will say to this man3 ,you loved your wife1 your children1 and your friends1 and ,i love you4 ,you treated others with kindness2 ,i will treat you in the same way4 ,but ,mr4 ,talmage steps up to his ,god1 nudges his elbow1 and says3 ,although he was a very good man1 he belonged to no church2 he was a blasphemer2 he denied the whale story1 and after ,i explained that ,jonah was only in the whale's mouth1 he still denied it2 and thereupon ,mr4 ,tal- mage expects that his infinite ,god will fly in a passion1 and in a perfect rage will say3 ,what6 did he deny that story8 ,let him be eternally damned6 #ahf ,not only this1 but ,mr4 ,talmage insists that a man may have treated his wife like a wild beast2 may have trampled his child beneath the feet of his rage2 may have lived a life of dishonesty1 of infamy1 and yet1 having repented on his dying bed1 having made his peace with ,god through the intercession of his ,son1 he will be welcomed in heaven with shouts of joy4 ,i deny it4 ,i do not believe that angels can be so quickly made from rascals4 ,i have but little confi- dence in repentance without restitution1 and a hus- band who has driven a wife to insanity and death by his cruelty--afterward repenting and finding himself in heaven1 and missing his wife1--were he worthy to be an angel1 would wander through all the gulfs of hell until he clasped her once again44 ,now1 the next question is1 ,what must be done with those who are sometimes good and sometimes bad8 ,that is my condition4 ,if there is another world1 ,i expect to have the same opportunity of behaving myself that ,i have here4 ,if1 when ,i get there1 ,i fail to act as ,i should1 ,i expect to reap what ,i sow4 ,if1 when ,i arrive at the ,new ,jerusalem1 ,i go into the thorn business1 ,i expect to harvest what ,i plant4 ,if ,i am wise enough to start a vineyard1 ,i expect to have grapes in the early fall4 ,but if ,i do there as ,i #ahg have done here--plant some grapes and some thorns1 and harvest them together--,i expect to fare very much as ,i have fared here4 ,but ,i expect year by year to grow wiser1 to plant fewer thorns every spring1 and more grapes4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage charges that you have taken the ground that the ,bible is a cruel book1 and has produced cruel people8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i have taken that ground1 and ,i maintain it4 ,the ,bible was produced by cruel people1 and in its turn it has produced people like its authors4 ,the extermination of the ,canaanites was cruel4 ,most of the laws of ,moses were bloodthirsty and cruel4 ,hundreds of offences were punishable by death1 while now1 in civilized countries1 there are only two crimes for which the punishment is capital4 ,i charge that ,moses and ,joshua and ,david and ,samuel and ,solomon were cruel4 ,i believe that to read and believe the ,old ,testament naturally makes a man careless of human life4 ,that book has produced hundreds of religious wars1 and it has furnished the battle-cries of bigotry for fifteen hundred years4 ,the ,old ,testament is filled with cruelty1 but its cruelty stops with this world1 its malice ends with #ahh death2 whenever its victim has reached the grave1 revenge is satisfied4 ,not so with the ,new ,testament4 ,it pursues its victim forever4 ,after death1 comes hell2 after the grave1 the worm that never dies4 ,so that1 as a matter of fact1 the ,new ,testament is in- finitely more cruel than the ,old4 ,nothing has so tended to harden the human heart as the doctrine of eternal punishment1 and that passage3 ,he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved1 and he that believeth not shall be damned1 has shed more blood than all the other so-called sacred books of all this world4 ,i insist that the ,bible is cruel4 ,the ,bible invented instruments of torture4 ,the ,bible laid the foundations of the ,inquisition4 ,the ,bible furnished the fagots and the martyrs4 ,the ,bible forged chains not only for the hands1 but for the brains of men4 ,the ,bible was at the bottom of the massacre of ,st4 ,bartholomew4 ,every man who has been persecuted for religion's sake has been persecuted by the ,bible4 ,that sacred book has been a beast of prey4 ,the truth is1 ,christians have been good in spite of the ,bible4 ,the ,bible has lived upon the reputations of good men and good women1--men and women who were good notwithstanding the brutality they found #ahi upon the inspired page4 ,men have said3 ,my mother believed in the ,bible2 my mother was good2 there- fore1 the ,bible is good1 when probably the mother never read a chapter in it4 ,the ,bible produced the ,church of ,rome1 and ,torquemada was a product of the ,bible4 ,philip of ,spain and the ,duke of ,alva were produced by the ,bible4 ,for thirty years ,europe was one vast battle- field1 and the war was produced by the ,bible4 ,the re- vocation of the ,edict of ,nantes was produced by the sacred ,scriptures4 ,the instruments of torture--the pincers1 the thumb-screws1 the racks1 were produced by the word of ,god4 ,the ,quakers of ,new ,england were whipped and burned by the ,bible--their children were stolen by the ,bible4 ,the slave-ship had for its sails the leaves of the ,bible4 ,slavery was upheld in the ,united ,states by the ,bible4 ,the ,bible was the auction-block4 ,more than this1 worse than this1 infinitely beyond the computation of imagination1 the despotisms of the old world all rested and still rest upon the ,bible4 ,the powers that be were sup- posed to have been ordained of ,god2 and he who rose against his king periled his soul4 ,in this connection1 and in order to show the state of society when the church had entire control of civil #aij and ecclesiastical affairs1 it may be well enough to read the following1 taken from the ,new ,york ,sun of ,march #ba1 #ahhb4 ,from this little extract1 it will be easy in the imagination to re-organize the government that then existed1 and to see clearly the state of so- ciety at that time4 ,this can be done upon the same principle that one scale tells of the entire fish1 or one bone of the complete animal3 ,from records in the ,state archives of ,hesse- ,darmstadt1 dating back to the thirteenth century1 it appears that the public executioner's fee for boiling a criminal in oil was twenty-four florins2 for decapi- tating with the sword1 fifteen florins and-a-half2 for quartering1 the same2 for breaking on the wheel1 five florins1 thirty kreuzers2 for tearing a man to pieces1 eighteen florins4 ,ten florins per head was his charge for hanging1 and he burned delinquents alive at the rate of fourteen florins apiece4 ,for ap- plying the ',spanish boot' his fee was only two florins4 ,five florins were paid to him every time he subjected a refractory witness to the torture of the rack4 ,the same amount was his due for 'branding 'the sign of the gallows with a red-hot iron upon 'the back1 forehead1 or cheek of a thief1' as well as for 'cutting off the nose and ears of a slanderer or #aia 'blasphemer4' ,flogging with rods was a cheap punishment1 its remuneration being fixed at three florins1 thirty kreuzers4 ,the ,bible has made men cruel4 ,it is a cruel book4 ,and yet1 amidst its thorns1 amidst its thistles1 amidst its nettles and its swords and pikes1 there are some flowers1 and these ,i wish1 in common with all good men1 to save4 ,i do not believe that men have ever been made merciful in war by reading the ,old ,testament4 ,i do not believe that men have ever been prompted to break the chain of a slave by reading the ,pentateuch4 ,the question is not whether ,florence ,nightingale and ,miss ,dix were cruel4 ,i have said nothing about ,john ,howard1 nothing about ,abbott ,lawrence4 ,i say nothing about people in this connection4 ,the question is3 ,is the ,bible a cruel book8 not3 ,was ,miss ,nightingale a cruel woman8 ,there have been thousands and thousands of loving1 tender and char- itable ,mohammedans4 ,mohammedan mothers love their children as well as ,christian mothers can4 ,mohammedans have died in defence of the ,koran-- died for the honor of an impostor4 ,there were millions of charitable people in ,india--millions in ,egypt--and ,i am not sure that the world has ever #aib produced people who loved one another better than the ,egyptians4 ,i think there are many things in the ,old ,testament calculated to make man cruel4 ,mr4 ,talmage asks3 ,what has been the effect upon your children8 ,as they have become more and more fond of the ,scriptures have they become more and more fond of tearing off the wings of flies and pinning grass- hoppers and robbing birds' nests8 ,i do not believe that reading the bible would make them tender toward flies or grasshoppers4 ,according to that book1 ,god used to punish animals for the crimes of their owners4 ,he drowned the animals in a flood4 ,he visited cattle with disease4 ,he bruised them to death with hailstones--killed them by the thousand4 ,will the reading of these things make children kind to animals8 ,so1 the whole system of sacrifices in the ,old ,testament is calculated to harden the heart4 ,the butchery of oxen and lambs1 the killing of doves1 the perpetual destruction of life1 the con- tinual shedding of blood--these things1 if they have any tendency1 tend only to harden the heart of child- hood4 ,the ,bible does not stop simply with the killing of animals4 ,the ,jews were commanded to kill their #aic neighbors--not only the men1 but the women2 not only the women1 but the babes4 ,in accordance with the command of ,god1 the ,jews killed not only their neighbors1 but their own brothers2 and according to this book1 which is the foundation1 as ,mr4 ,talmage believes1 of all mercy1 men were commanded to kill their wives because they differed with them on the subject of religion4 ,nowhere in the world can be found laws more un- just and cruel than in the ,old ,testament4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage wants you to tell where the cruelty of the ,bible crops out in the lives of ,chris- tians8 ,answer4 ,in the first place1 millions of ,christians have been persecutors4 ,did they get the idea of persecution from the ,bible8 ,will not every honest man admit that the early ,christians1 by reading the ,old ,testament1 became convinced that it was not only their privilege1 but their duty1 to destroy heathen nations8 ,did they not1 by reading the same book1 come to the conclusion that it was their solemn duty to extirpate heresy and heretics8 ,according to the ,new ,testament1 nobody could be saved unless he believed in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ4 ,the early ,chris- #aid tians believed this dogma4 ,they also believed that they had a right to defend themselves and their children from heretics4 ,we all admit that a man has a right to defend his children against the assaults of a would-be murderer1 and he has the right to carry this defence to the extent of killing the assailant4 ,if we have the right to kill people who are simply trying to kill the bodies of our children1 of course we have the right to kill them when they are endeavoring to assassinate1 not simply their bodies1 but their souls4 ,it was in this way ,christians reasoned4 ,if the ,testament is right1 their reasoning was correct4 ,whoever believes the ,new ,testament literally--whoever is satisfied that it is absolutely the word of ,god1 will become a perse- cutor4 ,all religious persecution has been1 and is1 in exact harmony with the teachings of the ,old and ,new ,testaments4 ,of course ,i mean with some of the teachings4 ,i admit that there are passages in both the ,old and ,new ,testaments against persecu- tion4 ,these are passages quoted only in time of peace4 ,others are repeated to feed the flames of war4 ,i find1 too1 that reading the ,bible and believing the ,bible do not prevent even ministers from telling false- #aie hoods about their opponents4 ,i find that the ,rev4 ,mr4 ,talmage is willing even to slander the dead1-- that he is willing to stain the memory of a ,christian1 and that he does not hesitate to give circulation to what he knows to be untrue4 ,mr4 ,talmage has himself1 ,i believe1 been the subject of a church trial4 ,how many of the ,christian witnesses against him1 in his judgment1 told the truth8 ,yet they were all ,bible readers and ,bible believers4 ,what effect1 in his judgment1 did the reading of the ,bible have upon his enemies8 ,is he willing to admit that the testi- mony of a ,bible1 reader and believer is true8 ,is he willing to accept the testimony even of ministers8 --of his brother ministers8 ,did reading the ,bible make them bad people8 ,was it a belief in the ,bible that colored their testimony8 ,or1 was it a belief in the ,bible that made ,mr4 ,talmage deny the truth of their statements8 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage charges you with having said that the ,scriptures are a collection of polluted writings8 ,answer4 ,i have never said such a thing4 ,i have said1 and ,i still say1 that there are passages in the ,bible unfit to be read--passages that never should #aif have been written--passages1 whether inspired or uninspired1 that can by no possibility do any human being any good4 ,i have always admitted that there are good passages in the ,bible--many good1 wise and just laws--many things calculated to make men better--many things calculated to make men worse4 ,i admit that the ,bible is a mixture of good and bad1 of truth and falsehood1 of history and fiction1 of sense and nonsense1 of virtue and vice1 of aspiration and revenge1 of liberty and tyranny4 ,i have never said anything against ,solomon's ,song4 ,i like it better than ,i do any book that pre- cedes it1 because it touches upon the human4 ,in the desert of murder1 wars of extermination1 polygamy1 concubinage and slavery1 it is an oasis where the trees grow1 where the birds sing1 and where human love blossoms and fills the air with perfume4 ,i do not regard that book as obscene4 ,there are many things in it that are beautiful and tender1 and it is calculated to do good rather than harm4 ,neither have ,i any objection to the book of ,eccle- siastes--except a few interpolations in it4 ,that book was written by a ,freethinker1 by a philosopher4 ,there is not the slightest mention of ,god in it1 nor of another state of existence4 ,all portions in which #aig ,god is mentioned are interpolations4 ,with some of this book ,i agree heartily4 ,i believe in the doctrine of enjoying yourself1 if you can1 to-day4 ,i think it foolish to spend all your years in heaping up treas- ures1 not knowing but he who will spend them is to be an idiot4 ,i believe it is far better to be happy with your wife and child now1 than to be miserable here1 with angelic expectations in some other world4 ,mr4 ,talmage is mistaken when he supposes that all ,bible believers have good homes1 that all ,bible readers are kind in their families4 ,as a matter of fact1 nearly all the wife-whippers of the ,united ,states are orthodox4 ,nine-tenths of the people in the penitentiaries are believers4 ,scotland is one of the most orthodox countries in the world1 and one of the most intem- perate4 ,hundreds and hundreds of women are arrested every year in ,glasgow for drunkenness4 ,visit the ,christian homes in the manufacturing dis- tricts of ,england4 ,talk with the beaters of children and whippers of wives1 and you will find them be- lievers4 ,go into what is known as the ,black ,country1 and you will have an idea of the ,chris- tian civilization of ,england4 ,let me tell you something about the ,black ,country4 ,there women work in iron2 there women #aih do the work of men4 ,let me give you an instance3 ,a commission was appointed by ,parliament to ex- amine into the condition of the women in the ,black ,country1 and a report was made4 ,in that report ,i read the following3 ,a superintendent of a brickyard where women were engaged in carrying bricks from the yard to the kiln1 said to one of the women3 ',eliza1 you don't appear to be very uppish this morning4' ',neither would you be very uppish1 sir1' she re- plied1 'if you had had a child last night4' ,this gives you an idea of the ,christian civilization of ,england4 ,england and ,ireland produce most of the prize- fighters4 ,the scientific burglar is a product of ,great ,britain4 ,there is not the great difference that ,mr4 ,talmage supposes1 between the morality of ,pekin and of ,new ,york4 ,i doubt if there is a city in the world with more crime according to the population than ,new ,york1 unless it be ,london1 or it may be ,dublin1 or ,brooklyn1 or possibly ,glasgow1 where a man too pious to read a newspaper published on ,sunday1 stole millions from the poor4 ,i do not believe there is a country in the world #aii where there is more robbery than in ,christian lands-- no country where more cashiers are defaulters1 where more presidents of banks take the money of depositors1 where there is more adulteration of food1 where fewer ounces make a pound1 where fewer inches make a yard1 where there is more breach of trust1 more respectable larceny under the name of embezzlement1 or more slander circulated as gospel4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage insists that there are no contradictions in the ,bible--that it is a perfect har- mony from ,genesis to ,revelation--a harmony as perfect as any piece of music ever written by ,beethoven or ,handel8 ,answer4 ,of course1 if ,god wrote it1 the ,bible ought to be perfect4 ,i do not see why a minister should be so perfectly astonished to find that an inspired book is consistent with itself throughout4 ,yet the truth is1 the ,bible is infinitely inconsistent4 ,compare the two systems--the system of ,jehovah and that of ,jesus4 ,in the ,old ,testament the doctrine of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth was taught4 ,in the ,new ,testament1 forgive your enemies1 and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you4 ,in the ,old ,testament #bjj it is kill1 burn1 massacre1 destroy2 in the ,new forgive4 ,the two systems are inconsistent1 and one is just about as far wrong as the other4 ,to live for and thirst for revenge1 to gloat over the agony of an enemy1 is one extreme2 to resist not evil is the other extreme2 and both these extremes are equally distant from the golden mean of justice4 ,the four gospels do not even agree as to the terms of salvation4 ,and yet1 ,mr4 ,talmage tells us that there are four cardinal doctrines taught in the ,bible-- the goodness of ,god1 the fall of man1 the sympathetic and forgiving nature of the ,savior1 and two desti- nies--one for believers and the other for unbelievers4 ,that is to say3 #a4 ,that ,god is good1 holy and forgiving4 #b4 ,that man is a lost sinner4 #c4 ,that ,christ is all sympathetic1 and ready to take the whole world to his heart4 #d4 ,heaven for believers and hell for unbelievers4 ,first4 ,i admit that the ,bible says that ,god is good and holy4 ,but this ,bible also tells what ,god did1 and if ,god did what the ,bible says he did1 then ,i insist that ,god is not good1 and that he is not holy1 or forgiving4 ,according to the ,bible1 this good ,god believed in religious persecution2 this good #bja ,god believed in extermination1 in polygamy1 in con- cubinage1 in human slavery2 this good ,god com- manded murder and massacre1 and this good ,god could only be mollified by the shedding of blood4 ,this good ,god wanted a butcher for a priest4 ,this good ,god wanted husbands to kill their wives-- wanted fathers and mothers to kill their children4 ,this good ,god persecuted animals on account of the crimes of their owners4 ,this good ,god killed the common people because the king had displeased him4 ,this good ,god killed the babe even of the maid behind the mill1 in order that he might get even with a king4 ,this good ,god committed every possible crime4 ,second4 ,the statement that man is a lost sinner is not true4 ,there are thousands and thousands of magnificent ,pagans--men ready to die for wife1 or child1 or even for friend1 and the history of ,pagan countries is filled with self-denying and heroic acts4 ,if man is a failure1 the infinite ,god1 if there be one1 is to blame4 ,is it possible that the ,god of ,mr4 ,tal- mage could not have made man a success8 ,accord- ing to the ,bible1 his ,god made man knowing that in about fifteen hundred years he would have to drown all his descendants4 #bjb ,why would a good ,god create a man that he knew would be a sinner all his life1 make hundreds of thousands of his fellow-men unhappy1 and who at last would be doomed to an eternity of suffering8 ,can such a ,god be good8 ,how could a devil have done worse8 ,third4 ,if ,god is infinitely good1 is he not fully as sympathetic as ,christ8 ,do you have to employ ,christ to mollify a being of infinite mercy8 ,is ,christ any more willing to take to his heart the whole world than his ,father is8 ,personally1 ,i have not the slightest objection in the world to anybody believing in an infinitely good and kind ,god--not the slightest objection to any human being worshiping an infi- nitely tender and merciful ,christ--not the slightest objection to people preaching about heaven1 or about the glories of the future state--not the slightest4 ,fourth4 ,i object to the doctrine of two destinies for the human race4 ,i object to the infamous false- hood of eternal fire4 ,and yet1 ,mr4 ,talmage is en- deavoring to poison the imagination of men1 women and children with the doctrine of an eternal hell4 ,here is what he preaches1 taken from the ,constitu- tion of the ,presbyterian ,church of the ,united ,states3 #bjc ,by the decrees of ,god1 for the manifestation of his glory1 some men and angels are predestinated to everlasting life1 and others foreordained to ever- lasting death4 ,that is the doctrine of ,mr4 ,talmage4 ,he wor- ships a ,god who damns people for the manifesta- tion of his glory1--a ,god who made men1 knowing that they would be damned--a ,god who damns babes simply to increase his reputation with the angels4 ,this is the ,god of ,mr4 ,talmage4 ,such a ,god ,i abhor1 despise and execrate4 ,question4 ,what does ,mr4 ,talmage think of man- kind8 ,what is his opinion of the unconverted8 ,how does he regard the great and glorious of the earth1 who have not been the victims of his particular superstition8 ,what does he think of some of the best the earth has produced8 ,answer4 ,i will tell you how he looks upon all such4 ,read this from his ,confession of ,faith3 ,our first parents1 being seduced by the subtlety of the tempter1 sinned in eating the forbidden fruit4 ,by this sin1 they fell from their original righteous- ness and communion with ,god1 and so became dead in sin1 and wholly defiled in all the faculties #bjd and parts of soul and body2 and they being the root of all mankind1 the guilt of this sin was imputed1 and the same death in sin and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity4 ,from this original corruption--whereby we are utterly indis- posed1 disabled1 and made opposite to all good1 and wholly inclined to all evil1 do proceed all actual transgressions4 ,this is ,mr4 ,talmage's view of humanity4 ,why did his ,god make a devil8 ,why did he allow the devil to tempt ,adam and ,eve8 ,why did he leave innocence and ignorance at the mercy of subtlety and wickedness8 ,why did he put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden8 ,for what reason did he place temptation in the way of his children8 ,was it kind1 was it just1 was it noble1 was it worthy of a good ,god8 ,no wonder ,christ put into his prayer3 ,lead us not into temptation4 ,at the time ,god told ,adam and ,eve not to eat1 why did he not tell them of the existence of ,satan8 ,why were they not put upon their guard against the serpent8 ,why did not ,god make his appearance just before the sin1 instead of just after4 ,why did he not play the role of a ,savior instead of that of a #bje detective8 ,after he found that ,adam and ,eve had sinned--knowing as he did that they were then totally corrupt--knowing that all their children would be corrupt1 knowing that in fifteen hundred years he would have to drown millions of them1 why did he not allow ,adam and ,eve to perish in accord- ance with natural law1 then kill the devil1 and make a new pair8 ,when the flood came1 why did he not drown all8 ,why did he save for seed that which was perfectly and thoroughly corrupt in all its parts and facul- ties8 ,if ,god had drowned ,noah and his sons and their families1 he could have then made a new pair1 and peopled the world with men not wholly defiled in all their faculties and parts of soul and body4 ,jehovah learned nothing by experience4 ,he per- sisted in his original mistake4 ,what would we think of a man who finding that a field of wheat was worthless1 and that such wheat never could be raised with profit1 should burn all of the field with the exception of a few sheaves1 which he saved for seed8 ,why save such seed8 ,why should ,god have pre- served ,noah1 knowing that he was totally corrupt1 and that he would again fill the world with infamous #bjf people--people incapable of a good action8 ,he must have known at that time1 that by preserving ,noah1 the ,canaanites would be produced1 that these same ,canaanites would have to be murdered1 that the babes in the cradles would have to be strangled4 ,why did he produce them8 ,he knew at that time1 that ,egypt would result from the salvation of ,noah1 that the ,egyptians would have to be nearly de- stroyed1 that he would have to kill their first-born1 that he would have to visit even their cattle with disease and hailstones4 ,he knew also that the ,egyptians would oppress his chosen people for two hundred and fifteen years1 that they would upon the back of toil inflict the lash4 ,why did he preserve ,noah8 ,he should have drowned all1 and started with a new pair4 ,he should have warned them against the devil1 and he might have succeeded1 in that way1 in covering the world with gentlemen and ladies1 with real men and real women4 ,we know that most of the people now in the world are not ,christians4 ,most who have heard the gospel of ,christ have rejected it1 and the ,presby- terian ,church tells us what is to become of all these people4 ,this is the glad tidings of great joy4 ,let us see3 #bjg ,all mankind1 by their fall1 lost communion with ,god1 are under his wrath and curse1 and so made liable to all the miseries of this life1 to death itself1 and to the pains of hell forever4 ,according to this good ,presbyterian doctrine1 all that we suffer in this world1 is the result of ,adam's fall4 ,the babes of to-day suffer for the crime of the first parents4 ,not only so2 but ,god is angry at us for what ,adam did4 ,we are under the wrath of an infinite ,god1 whose brows are corrugated with eternal hatred4 ,why should ,god hate us for being what we are and necessarily must have been8 ,a being that ,god made--the devil--for whose work ,god is responsible1 according to the ,bible wrought this woe4 ,god of his own free will must have made the devil4 ,what did he make him for8 ,was it necessary to have a devil in heaven8 ,god1 having infinite power1 can of course destroy this devil to-day4 ,why does he per- mit him to live8 ,why did he allow him to thwart his plans8 ,why did he permit him to pollute the inno- cence of ,eden8 ,why does he allow him now to wrest souls by the million from the redeeming hand of ,christ8 ,according to the ,scriptures1 the devil has always #bjh been successful4 ,he enjoys himself4 ,he is called the prince of the power of the air4 ,he has no conscientious scruples4 ,he has miraculous power4 ,all miraculous power must come of ,god1 otherwise it is simply in accordance with nature4 ,if the devil can work a miracle1 it is only with the consent and by the assistance of the ,almighty4 ,is the ,god of ,mr4 ,talmage in partnership with the devil8 ,do they divide profits8 ,we are also told by the ,presbyterian ,church-- ,i quote from their ,confession of ,faith--that there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation4'' ,yet ,mr4 ,talmage tells us that ,god is good1 that he is filled with mercy and loving-kindness4 ,a child nine or ten years of age commits a sin1 and thereupon it deserves eternal damnation4 ,that is what ,mr4 ,talmage calls1 not simply justice1 but mercy2 and the sympathetic heart of ,christ is not touched4 ,the same being who said3 ,suffer little children to come unto me1 tells us that a child1 for the smallest sin1 deserves to be eternally damned4 ,the ,presbyterian ,church tells us that infants1 as well as adults1 in order to be saved1 need redemption by the blood of ,christ1 and regen- eration by the ,holy ,ghost4 ,i am charged with trying to take the consolation #bji of this doctrine from the world4 ,i am a criminal because ,i am endeavoring to convince the mother that her child does not deserve eternal punishment4 ,i stand by the graves of those who died in their sins1 by the tombs of the unregenerate1 over the ashes of men who have spent their lives working for their wives and children1 and over the sacred dust of soldiers who died in defence of flag and country1 and ,i say to their friends--,i say to the living who loved them1 ,i say to the men and women for whom they worked1 ,i say to the children whom they edu- cated1 ,i say to the country for which they died3 ,these fathers1 these mothers1 these wives1 these husbands1 these soldiers are not in hell4 ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage insists that the ,bible is scientific1 and that the real scientific man sees no contradiction between revelation and science2 that1 on the contrary1 they are in harmony4 ,what is your understanding of this matter8 ,answer4 ,i do not believe the ,bible to be a sci- entific book4 ,in fact1 most of the ministers now admit that it was not written to teach any science4 ,they admit that the first chapter of ,genesis is not geo- logically true4 ,they admit that ,joshua knew nothing #baj of science4 ,they admit that four-footed birds did not exist in the days of ,moses4 ,in fact1 the only way they can avoid the unscientific statements of the ,bible1 is to assert that the writers simply used the common language of their day1 and used it1 not with the intention of teaching any scientific truth1 but for the purpose of teaching some moral truth4 ,as a matter of fact1 we find that moral truths have been taught in all parts of this world4 ,they were taught in ,india long before ,moses lived2 in ,egypt long be- fore ,abraham was born2 in ,china thousands of years before the flood4 ,they were taught by hundreds and thousands and millions before the ,garden of ,eden was planted4 ,it would be impossible to prove the truth of a revelation simply because it contained moral truths4 ,if it taught immorality1 it would be absolutely certain that it was not a revelation from an infinitely good being4 ,if it taught morality1 it would be no reason for even suspecting that it had a divine origin4 ,but if the ,bible had given us scientific truths2 if the ignorant ,jews had given us the true theory of our solar system2 if from ,moses we had learned the nature of light and heat2 if from ,joshua we had learned something of electricity2 if the minor pro- #baa phets had given us the distances to other planets2 if the orbits of the stars had been marked by the barbarians of that day1 we might have admitted that they must have been inspired4 ,if they had said any- thing in advance of their day2 if they had plucked from the night of ignorance one star of truth1 we might have admitted the claim of inspiration2 but the ,scriptures did not rise above their source1 did not rise above their ignorant authors--above the people who believed in wars of extermination1 in polygamy1 in concubinage1 in slavery1 and who taught these things in their sacred ,scriptures4 ,the greatest men in the scientific world have not been1 and are not1 believers in the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,there has been no greater astronomer than ,laplace4 ,there is no greater name than ,humboldt4 ,there is no living scientist who stands higher than ,charles ,darwin4 ,all the professors in all the religious colleges in this country rolled into one1 would not equal ,charles ,darwin4 ,all the cow- ardly apologists for the cosmogony of ,moses do not amount to as much in the world of thought as ,ernst ,haeckel4 ,there is no orthodox scientist the equal of ,tyndall or ,huxley4 ,there is not one in this country the equal of ,john ,fiske4 ,i insist1 that the #bab foremost men to-day in the scientific world reject the dogma of inspiration4 ,they reject the science of the ,bible1 and hold in utter contempt the astronomy of ,joshua1 and the geology of ,moses4 ,mr4 ,talmage tells us that ,science is a boy and ,revelation is a man4 ,of course1 like the most he says1 it is substantially the other way4 ,revelation1 so-called1 was the boy4 ,religion was the lullaby of the cradle1 the ghost-story told by the old woman1 ,superstition4 ,science is the man4 ,science asks for demonstration4 ,science impels us to investigation1 and to verify everything for ourselves4 ,most pro- fessors of ,american colleges1 if they were not afraid of losing their places1 if they did not know that ,christians were bad enough now to take the bread from their mouths1 would tell their students that the ,bible is not a scientific book4 ,i admit that ,i have said3 #a4 ,that the ,bible is cruel4 #b4 ,that in many passages it is impure4 #c4 ,that it is contradictory4 #d4 ,that it is unscientific4 ,let me now prove these propositions one by one4 ,first4 ,the ,bible is cruel4 ,i have opened it at random1 and the very first #bac chapter that has struck my eye is the sixth of ,first ,samuel4 ,in the nineteenth verse of that chapter1 ,i find the following3 ,and he smote the men of ,bethshemesh1 because they had looked into the ark of the ,lord2 even he smote of the people fifty thousand and three-score and ten men4 ,all this slaughter was because some people had looked into a box that was carried upon a cart4 ,was that cruel8 ,i find1 also1 in the twenty-fourth chapter of ,second ,samuel1 that ,david was moved by ,god to number ,israel and ,judah4 ,god put it into his heart to take a census of his people1 and thereupon ,david said to ,joab1 the captain of his host3 ,go now through all the tribes of ,israel1 from ,dan even to ,beersheba1 and number ye the people1 that ,i may know the number of the people4 ,at the end of nine months and twenty days1 ,joab gave the number of the people to the king1 and there were at that time1 according to that census1 eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword1 in ,israel1 and in ,judah1 five hundred thousand men1 making a total of thirteen hundred thousand men of war4 ,the moment this census was #bad taken1 the wrath of the ,lord waxed hot against ,david1 and thereupon he sent a seer1 by the name of ,gad1 to ,david1 and asked him to choose whether he would have seven years of famine1 or fly three months before his enemies1 or have three days of pestilence4 ,david concluded that as ,god was so merciful as to give him a choice1 he would be more merciful than man1 and he chose the pestilence4 ,now1 it must be remembered that the sin of taking the census had not been committed by the people1 but by ,david himself1 inspired by ,god1 yet the people were to be punished for ,david's sin4 ,so11 when ,david chose the pestilence1 ,god immediately killed seventy thousand men1 from ,dan even to ,beersheba4 ,and when the angel stretched out his hand upon ,jerusalem to destroy it1 the ,lord repented him of the evil1 and said to the angel that destroyed the people1 ,it is enough2 stay now thine hand4 ,was this cruel8 ,why did a ,god of infinite mercy destroy seventy thousand men8 ,why did he fill his land with widows and orphans1 because ,king ,david had taken the cen- sus8 ,if he wanted to kill anybody1 why did he not kill ,david8 ,i will tell you why4 ,because at that #bae time1 the people were considered as the property of the king4 ,he killed the people precisely as he killed the cattle4 ,and yet1 ,i am told that the ,bible is not a cruel book4 ,in the twenty-first chapter of ,second ,samuel1 ,i find that there were three years of famine in the days of ,david1 and that ,david inquired of the ,lord the reason of the famine2 and the ,lord told him that it was because ,saul had slain the ,gibeonites4 ,why did not ,god punish ,saul instead of the people8 ,and ,david asked the ,gibeonites how he should make atonement1 and the ,gibeonites replied that they wanted no silver nor gold1 but they asked that seven of the sons of ,saul might be delivered unto them1 so that they could hang them before the ,lord1 in ,gibeah4 ,and ,david agreed to the proposition1 and thereupon he delivered to the ,gibeonites the two sons of ,rizpah1 ,saul's concubine1 and the five sons of ,michal1 the daughter of ,saul1 and the ,gibeonites hanged all seven of them together4 ,and ,rizpah1 more tender than them all1 with a woman's heart of love kept lonely vigil by the dead1 from the beginning of har- vest until water dropped upon them out of heaven1 and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest upon them by day1 nor the beast of the field by night4 #baf ,i want to know if the following1 from the fifteenth chapter of ,first ,samuel1 is inspired3 ,thus saith the ,lord of hosts2 ,i remember that which ,amalek did to ,israel1 how he laid wait for him in the way when he came up from ,egypt4 ,now go and smite ,amalek1 and utterly destroy all that they have1 and spare them not1 but slay both man and woman1 infant and suckling1 ox and sheep1 camel and ass4 ,we must remember that those he was commanded to slay had done nothing to ,israel4 ,it was something done by their forefathers1 hundreds of years before2 and yet they are commanded to slay the women and children and even the animals1 and to spare none4 ,it seems that ,saul only partially carried into exe- cution this merciful command of ,jehovah4 ,he spared the life of the king4 ,he utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword1 but he kept alive the best of the sheep and oxen and of the fat- lings and lambs4 ,then ,god spake unto ,samuel and told him that he was very sorry he had made ,saul king1 because he had not killed all the animals1 and because he had spared ,agag2 and ,samuel asked ,saul3 ,what meaneth this bleating of sheep in mine ears1 and the lowing of the oxen which ,i hear8 #bag ,are stories like this calculated to make soldiers merciful8 ,so ,i read in the sixth chapter of ,joshua1 the fate of the city of ,jericho3 ,and they utterly destroyed all that was in the city1 both man and woman1 young and old1 and ox1 and sheep1 and ass1 with the edge of the sword4 ,and they burnt the city with fire1 and all that was therein4 ,but we are told that one family was saved by ,joshua1 out of the general destruction3 ,and ,joshua saved ,rahab1 the harlot1 alive1 and her father's household1 and all that she had4 ,was this fearful destruction an act of mercy8 ,it seems that they saved the money of their victims3 the silver and gold and the vessels of brass and of iron they put into the treasury of the house of the ,lord4 ,after all this pillage and carnage1 it appears that there was a suspicion in ,joshua's mind that somebody was keeping back a part of the treasure4 ,search was made1 and a man by the name of ,achan admitted that he had sinned against the ,lord1 that he had seen a ,babylonish garment among the spoils1 and two hundred shekels of silver and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels' weight1 and that he took them and hid #bl#h them in his tent4 ,for this atrocious crime it seems that the ,lord denied any victories to the ,jews until they found out the wicked criminal4 ,when they dis- covered poor ,achan1 they took him and his sons and his daughters1 and his oxen and his asses and his sheep1 and all that he had1 and brought them unto the valley of ,achor2 and all ,israel stoned him with stones and burned them with fire after they had stoned them with stones4 ,after ,achan and his sons and his daughters and his herds had been stoned and burned to death1 we are told that the ,lord turned from the fierceness of his anger4 ,and yet it is insisted that this ,god is merciful1 and that his loving-kindness is over all his works4 ,in the eighth chapter of this same book1 the infi- nite ,god1 creator of heaven and earth and all that is therein1 told his general1 ,joshua1 to lay an ambush for a city--to lie in wait against the city1 even be- hind the city2 go not very far from the city1 but be ye all ready4 ,he told him to make an attack and then to run1 as though he had been beaten1 in order that the inhabitants of the city might follow1 and thereupon his reserves that he had ambushed might rush into the city and set it on fire4 ,god ,almighty #bai planned the battle4 ,god himself laid the snare4 ,the whole programme was carried out4 ,joshua made believe that he was beaten1 and fled1 and then the soldiers in ambush rose out of their places1 enter- ed the city1 and set it on fire4 ,then came the slaughter4 ,they utterly destroyed all the inhabit- ants of ,ai1 men and maidens1 women and babes1 sparing only their king till evening1 when they hanged him on a tree1 then took his carcase down from the tree and cast it at the entering of the gate1 and raised thereon a great heap of stones which remaineth unto this day4 ,after having done all this1 ,joshua built an altar unto the ,lord ,god of ,israel1 and offered burnt offerings unto the ,lord4 ,i ask again1 was this cruel8 ,again ,i ask1 was the treatment of the ,gibeonites cruel when they sought to make peace but were denied1 and cursed instead2 and although permitted to live1 were yet made slaves8 ,read the mandate consigning them to bondage3 ,now therefore ye are cursed1 and there shall none of you be freed from being bondmen and hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my ,god4 ,is it possible1 as recorded in the tenth chapter of ,joshua1 that the ,lord took part in these battles1 and #bbj cast down great hail-stones from the battlements of heaven upon the enemies of the ,israelites1 so that they were more who died with hail-stones1 than they whom the children of ,israel slew with the sword8 ,is it possible that a being of infinite power would exercise it in that way instead of in the interest of kindness and peace8 ,i find1 also1 in this same chapter1 that ,joshua took ,makkedah and smote it with the edge of the sword1 that he utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein1 that he allowed none to remain4 ,i find that he fought against ,libnah1 and smote it with the edge of the sword1 and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein1 and allowed none to remain1 and did unto the king as he did unto the king of ,jericho4 ,i find that he also encamped against ,lachish1 and that ,god gave him that city1 and that he smote it with the edge of the sword1 and all the souls that were therein1 sparing neither old nor young1 help- less women nor prattling babes4 ,he also vanquished ,horam1 ,king of ,gezer1 and smote him and his people until he left him none remaining4 #bba ,he encamped against the city of ,eglon1 and killed every soul that was in it1 at the edge of the sword1 just as he had done to ,lachish and all the others4 ,he fought against ,hebron1 and took it and smote it with the edge of the sword1 and the king thereof1--and it appears that several cities1 their number not named1 were included in this slaughter1 for ,hebron and all the cities thereof and all the souls that were therein1 were utterly destroyed4 ,he then waged war against ,debir and took it1 and more unnumbered cities with it1 and all the souls that were therein shared the same horrible fate--he did not leave a soul alive4 ,and this chapter of horrors concludes with this song of victory3 ,so ,joshua smote all the country of the hills1 and of the south1 and of the vale1 and of the springs1 and all their kings3 he left none remaining1 but utterly destroyed all that breathed1 as the ,lord ,god of ,israel commanded4 ,and ,joshua smote them from ,kadeshbarnea even unto ,gaza1 and all the country of ,goshen1 even unto ,gibeon4 ,and all these kings and their land did ,joshua take at one time1 because the ,lord ,god of ,israel fought for ,israel4 ,was ,god1 at that time1 merciful8 #bbb ,i find1 also1 in the twenty-first chapter that many ,icings met1 with their armies1 for the purpose of overwhelming ,israel1 and the ,lord said unto ,joshua3 ,be not afraid because of them1 for to-morrow about this time ,i will deliver them all slain before ,israel4 ,i will hough their horses and burn their chariots with fire4 ,were animals so treated by the com- mand of a merciful ,god8 ,joshua captured ,razor1 and smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword1 there was not one left to breathe2 and he took all the cities of all the kings that took up arms against him1 and utterly destroyed all the inhabitants thereof4 ,he took the cattle and spoils as prey unto himself1 and smote every man with the edge of the sword2 and not only so1 but left not a human being to breathe4 ,i find the following directions given to the ,israel- ites who were waging a war of conquest4 ,they are in the twentieth chapter of ,deuteronomy1 from the tenth to the eighteenth verses3 ,when thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it1 then proclaim peace unto it4 ,and it shall be1 if it make thee an answer of peace1 and open unto thee1 then it shall be that all the people #bbc that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee1 and they shall serve thee4 ,and if it will make no peace with thee1 but will war against thee1 then thou shalt besiege it4 ,and when the ,lord thy ,god hath delivered it into thine hands1 thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword2 but the women1 and the little ones1 and the cattle1 and all that is in the city1 even the spoil thereof1 shalt thou take unto thyself2 and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies1 which the ,lord thy ,god hath given thee4 ,thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee1 which are not of the cities of these nations4 ,it will be seen from this that people could take their choice between death and slavery1 provided these people lived a good ways from the ,israelites4 ,now1 let us see how they were to treat the inhabit- ants of the cities near to them3 ,but of the cities of these people which the ,lord thy ,god doth give thee for an inheritance1 thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth4 ,but thou shalt utterly destroy them2 namely1 the ,hittites1 and the ,amorites1 the ,canaanites1 and the ,perizzites1 the ,hivites and the ,jebusites1 as the ,lord thy ,god hath commanded thee4 #bbd ,it never occurred to this merciful ,god to send missionaries to these people4 ,he built them no schoolhouses1 taught them no alphabet1 gave them no book2 they were not supplied even with a copy of the ,ten ,commandments4 ,he did not say ,reform1 but ,kill2 not ,educate1 but ,destroy4 ,he gave them no ,bible1 built them no church1 sent them no preachers4 ,he knew when he made them that he would have to have them murdered4 ,when he created them he knew that they were not fit to live2 and yet1 this is the infinite ,god who is infinitely merciful and loves his children better than an earthly mother loves her babe4 ,in order to find just how merciful ,god is1 read the twenty-eighth chapter of ,deuteronomy1 and see what he promises to do with people who do not keep all of his commandments and all of his statutes4 ,he curses them in their basket and store1 in the fruit of their body1 in the fruit of their land1 in the increase of their cattle and sheep4 ,he curses them in the city and in the field1 in their coming in and their going out4 ,he curses them with pestilence1 with consumption1 with fever1 with inflammation1 with extreme burning1 with sword1 with blasting1 with mildew4 ,he tells them that the heavens shall be as brass over their heads #bbe and the earth as iron under their feet2 that the rain shall be powder and dust and shall come down on them and destroy them2 that they shall flee seven ways before their enemies2 that their carcasses shall be meat for the fowls of the air1 and the beasts of the earth2 that he will smite them with the botch of ,egypt1 and with the scab1 and with the itch1 and with madness and blindness and astonishment2 that he will make them grope at noonday2 that they shall be oppressed and spoiled evermore2 that one shall be- troth a wife and another shall have her2 that they shall build a house and not dwell in it2 plant a vine- yard and others shall eat the grapes2 that their sons and daughters shall be given to their enemies2 that he will make them mad for the sight of their eyes2 that he will smite them in the knees and in the legs with a sore botch that cannot be healed1 and from the sole of the foot to the top of the head2 that they shall be a by-word among all nations2 that they shall sow much seed and gather but little2 that the locusts shall consume their crops2 that they shall plant vineyards and drink no wine1--that they shall gather grapes1 but worms shall eat them2 that they shall raise olives but have no oil2 beget sons and daughters1 but they shall go into captivity2 that all #bbf the trees and fruit of the land shall be devoured by locusts1 and that all these curses shall pursue them and overtake them1 until they be destroyed2 that they shall be slaves to their enemies1 and be constantly in hunger and thirst and nakedness1 and in want of all things4 ,and as though this were not enough1 the ,lord tells them that he will bring a nation against them swift as eagles1 a nation fierce and savage1 that will show no mercy and no favor to old or young1 and leave them neither corn1 nor wine1 nor oil1 nor flocks1 nor herds2 and this nation shall besiege them in their cities until they are reduced to the necessity of eating the flesh of their own sons and daughters2 so that the men would eat their wives and their children1 and women eat their husbands and their own sons and daughters1 and their own babes4 ,all these curses ,god pronounced upon them if they did not observe to do all the words of the law that were written in his book4 ,this same merciful ,god threatened that he would bring upon them all the diseases of ,egypt--every sickness and every plague2 that he would scatter them from one end of the earth to the other2 that they should find no rest2 that their lives should hang in perpetual doubt2 that in the morning they would #bbg say3 ,would ,god it were evening6 and in the even- ing1 ,would ,god it were morning6 and that he would finally take them back to ,egypt where they should be again sold for bondmen and bondwomen4 ,this curse1 the foundation of the ,anathema maranatha2 this curse1 used by the pope of ,rome to prevent the spread of thought2 this curse used even by the ,protestant ,church2 this curse born of barba- rism and of infinite cruelty1 is now said to have issued from the lips of an infinitely merciful ,god4 ,one would suppose that ,jehovah had gone insane2 that he had divided his kingdom like ,lear1 and from the darkness of insanity had launched his curses upon a world4 ,in order that there may be no doubt as to the mercy of ,jehovah1 read the thirteenth chapter of ,deuteronomy3 ,if thy brother1 the son of thy mother1 or thy son1 or thy daughter1 or the wife of thy bosom1 or thy friend1 which is as thine own soul1 entice thee secretly1 saying1 ,let us go and serve other gods1 which thou hast not known1 thou nor thy fathers2 99 99 99 thou shalt not consent unto him1 nor hearken unto him2 neither shall thine eyes pity him1 neither shalt thou spare1 neither shalt thou conceal #bbh him2 but thou shalt surely kill him3 thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death1 and afterwards the hand of all the people2 and thou shalt stone him with stones that he die1 because he hath sought to entice thee away from the ,lord thy ,god4 ,this1 according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 is a commandment of the infinite ,god4 ,according to him1 ,god ordered a man to murder his own son1 his own wife1 his own brother1 his own daughter1 if they dared even to sug- gest the worship of some other ,god than ,jehovah4 ,for my part1 it is impossible not to despise such a ,god--a ,god not willing that one should worship what he must4 ,no one can control his admiration1 and if a savage at sunrise falls upon his knees and offers homage to the great light of the ,east1 he can- not help it4 ,if he worships the moon1 he cannot help it4 ,if he worships fire1 it is because he cannot control his own spirit4 ,a picture is beautiful to me in spite of myself4 ,a statue compels the applause of my brain4 ,the worship of the sun was an exceedingly natural religion1 and why should a man or woman be destroyed for kneeling at the fireside of the world8 ,no wonder that this same ,god1 in the very next chapter of ,deuteronomy to that quoted1 says to his #bbi chosen people3 ,ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself3 thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is within thy gates1 that he may eat it2 or thou mayest sell it unto an alien3 for thou art a holy people unto the ,lord thy ,god4 ,what a mingling of heartlessness and thrift--the religion of sword and trade6 ,in the seventh chapter of ,deuteronomy1 ,jehovah gives his own character4 ,he tells the ,israelites that there are seven nations greater and mightier than themselves1 but that he will deliver them to his chosen people1 and that they shall smite them and utterly destroy them2 and having some fear that a drop of pity might remain in the ,jewish heart1 he says3 ,thou shalt make no covenant with them1 nor show mercy unto them4 99 99 99 ,know therefore that the ,lord thy ,god1 he is ,god1 the faithful ,god1 which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations1 and repayeth them that hate him to their face1 to destroy them3 he will not be slack to him that hateth him1 he will repay him to his face4 ,this is the description which the merciful1 long-suffer- ing ,jehovah gives of himself4 ,so1 he promises great prosperity to the ,jews if #bcj they will only obey his commandments1 and says3 ,and the ,lord will take away from thee all sickness1 and will put none of the evil diseases of ,egypt upon thee1 but will lay them upon all them that hate thee4 ,and thou shalt consume all the people which the ,lord thy ,god shall deliver thee2 thine eye shall have no pity upon them4 ,under the immediate government of ,jehovah1 mercy was a crime4 ,according to the law of ,god1 pity was weakness1 tenderness was treason1 kindness was blasphemy1 while hatred and massacre were virtues4 ,in the second chapter of ,deuteronomy we find another account tending to prove that ,jehovah is a merciful ,god4 ,we find that ,sihon1 king of ,heshbon1 would not let the ,hebrews pass by him1 and the reason given is1 that the ,lord ,god hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate1 that he might deliver him into the hand of the ,hebrews4 ,sihon1 his heart having been hardened by ,god1 came out against the chosen people1 and ,god delivered him to them1 and they smote him1 and his sons1 and all his people1 and took all his cities1 and utterly destroyed the men and the women1 and the little ones of every city3 they left none to remain4 ,and in this #bca same chapter this same ,god promises that the dread and fear of his chosen people should be upon all the nations that are under the whole heaven1 and that they should tremble and be in anguish because of the ,hebrews4 ,read the thirty-first chapter of ,numbers1 and see how the ,midianites were slain4 ,you will find that the children of ,israel took all the women of ,midian captives1 and their little ones1 that they took all their cattle1 and all their flocks1 and all their goods1 that they slew all the males1 and burnt all their cities and castles with fire1 that they brought the captives and the prey and the spoil unto ,moses and ,eleazar the priest2 that ,moses was wroth with the officers of his host because they had saved all the women alive1 and thereupon this order was given3 ,kill every male among the little ones1 and kill every woman1 99 99 99 but all the women children keep alive for yourselves4 ,after this1 ,god himself spake unto ,moses1 and said3 ,take the sum of the prey that was taken1 both of man and of beast1 thou and ,eleazar the priest 99 99 99 and divide the prey into two parts1 between those who went to war1 and between all the congregation1 and levy a tribute unto the #bcb ,lord1 one soul of five hundred of the persons1 and the cattle2 take it of their half and give it to the priest for an offering 99 99 99 and of the children of ,israel's half1 take one portion of fifty of the persons and the animals and give them unto the ,levites4 99 99 99 ,and ,moses and the priest did as the ,lord had commanded4 ,it seems that they had taken six hundred and seventy-five thou- sand sheep1 seventy-two thousand beeves1 sixty-one thousand asses1 and thirty-two thousand women children and maidens4 ,and it seems1 by the fortieth verse1 that the ,lord's tribute of the maidens was thirty- two1--the rest were given to the soldiers and to the congregation of the ,lord4 ,was anything more infamous ever recorded in the annals of barbarism8 ,and yet we are told that the ,bible is an inspired book1 that it is not a cruel book1 and that ,jehovah is a being of infinite mercy4 ,in the twenty-fifth chapter of ,numbers we find that the ,israelites had joined themselves unto ,baal- ,peor1 and thereupon the anger of the ,lord was kindled against them1 as usual4 ,no being ever lost his temper more frequently than this ,jehovah4 ,upon this particular occasion1 the ,lord said unto ,moses1 ,take all the heads of the people1 and hang them #bcc up before the ,lord against the sun1 that the fierce anger of the ,lord may be turned away from ,israel4 ,and thereupon ,moses said unto the judges of ,israel1 ,slay ye every one his men that were joined unto ,baal-peor4 ,just as soon as these people were killed1 and their heads hung up before the ,lord against the sun1 and a horrible double murder of a too merciful ,israelite and a ,midianitish woman1 had been committed by ,phinehas1 the son of ,eleazar1 the plague was stayed from the children of ,israel4 ,twenty-four thousand had died4 ,thereupon1 the ,lord spake unto ,moses and said--and it is a very merciful commandment --,vex the ,midianites and smite them4 ,in the twenty-first chapter of ,numbers is more evi- dence that ,god is merciful and compassionate4 ,the children of ,israel had become discouraged4 ,they had wandered so long in the desert that they finally cried out3 ,wherefore have ye brought us up out of ,egypt to die in the wilderness8 ,there is no bread1 there is no water1 and our soul loatheth this light bread4 ,of course they were hungry and thirsty4 ,who would not complain under similar cir- cumstances8 ,and yet1 on account of this complaint1 the ,god of infinite tenderness and compassion sent #bcd serpents among them1 and these serpents bit them-- bit the cheeks of children1 the breasts of maidens1 and the withered faces of age4 ,why would a ,god do such an infamous thing8 ,why did he not1 as the leader of this people1 his chosen children1 feed them better8 ,certainly an infinite ,god had the power to satisfy their hunger and to quench their thirst4 ,he who overwhelmed a world with water1 certainly could have made a few brooks1 cool and babbling1 to follow his chosen people through all their jour- neying4 ,he could have supplied them with miracu- lous food4 ,how fortunate for the ,jews that ,jehovah was not revengeful1 that he was so slow to anger1 so patient1 so easily pleased4 ,what would they have done had he been exacting1 easily incensed1 revengeful1 cruel1 or blood-thirsty8 ,in the sixteenth chapter of ,numbers1 an account is given of a rebellion4 ,it seems that ,korah1 ,dathan and ,abiram got tired of ,moses and ,aaron4 ,they thought the priests were taking a little too much upon themselves4 ,so ,moses told them to have two hundred and fifty of their men bring their censers and put incense in them before the ,lord1 and stand in the door of the tabernacle of the congregation #bce with ,moses and ,aaron4 ,that being done1 the ,lord appeared1 and told ,moses and ,aaron to separate themselves from the people1 that he might consume them all in a moment4 ,moses and ,aaron1 having a little compassion1 begged ,god not to kill everybody4 ,the people were then divided1 and ,dathan and ,abiram came out and stood in the door of their tents with their wives and their sons and their little children4 ,and ,moses said3 ,hereby ye shall know that the ,lord hath sent me to do all these works2 for ,i have not done them of my mine own mind4 ,if these men die the common death of all men1 or if they be visited after the common visitation of all men1 then the ,lord hath not sent me4 ,but if the ,lord make a new thing1 and the earth open her mouth and swallow them up1 with all that appertain unto them1 and they go down quick into the pit1 then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the ,lord4 ,the moment he ceased speaking1 the ground clave asunder that was under them2 and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up1 and their houses1 and all the men that appertained unto ,korah1 and all their goods4 ,they1 and all that appertained to them went down alive into the pit1 #bcf and the earth closed upon them1 and they perished from among the congregation4 ,this1 according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 was the act of an exceedingly merciful ,god1 prompted by infinite kind- ness1 and moved by eternal pity4 ,what would he have done had he acted from motives of revenge8 ,what would he ,jiave done had he been remorse- lessly cruel and wicked8 ,in addition to those swallowed by the earth1 the two hundred and fifty men that offered the incense were consumed by a fire that came out from the ,lord4 ,and not only this1 but the same merciful ,jehovah wished to consume all the people1 and he would have consumed them all1 only that ,moses pre- vailed upon ,aaron to take a censer and put fire therein from off the altar of incense and go quickly to the congregation and make an atonement for them4 ,he was not quick enough4 ,the plague had already begun2 and before he could possibly get the censers and incense among the people1 fourteen thousand and seven hundred had died of the plague4 ,how many more might have died1 if ,jehovah had not been so slow to anger and so merciful and tender to his children1 we have no means of knowing4 ,in the thirteenth chapter of the same book of #bcg ,numbers1 we find that some spies were sent over into the promised land1 and that they brought back grapes and figs and pomegranates1 and reported that the whole land was flowing with milk and honey1 but that the people were strong1 that the cities were walled1 and that the nations in the promised land were mightier than the ,hebrews4 ,they reported that all the people they met were men of a great stature1 that they had seen the giants1 the sons of ,anak which come of giants1 compared with whom the ,israelites were in their own sight as grasshoppers1 and so were we in their sight4 ,entirely discour- aged by these reports1 all the congregation lifted up their voice and cried1 and the people wept that night 99 99 99 and murmured against ,moses and against ,aaron1 and said unto them3 ,would ,god that we had died in the land of ,egypt6 or would ,god we had died in this wilderness6 ,some of them thought that it would be better to go back1-- that they might as well be slaves in ,egypt as to be food for giants in the promised land4 ,they did not want their bones crunched between the teeth of the sons of ,anak4 ,jehovah got angry again1 and said to ,moses3 ,how long will these people provoke me8 99 99 99 #bch ,i will smite them with pestilence1 and disinherit them4 ,but ,moses said3 ,lord1 if you do this1 the ,egyptians will hear of it1 and they will say that you were not able to bring your people into the promised land4 ,then he proceeded to flatter him by telling him how merciful and long-suffering he had been4 ,finally1 ,jehovah concluded to pardon the people this time1 but his pardon depended upon the violation of his promise1 for he said3 ,they shall not see the land which ,i sware unto their fathers1 neither shall any of them that provoked me see it2 but my servant ,caleb1 99 99 99 him will ,i bring into the land4 ,and ,jehovah said to the people3 ,your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness1 and all that were numbered of you according to your whole number1 from twenty years old and upward1 which have murmured against me1 ye shall not come into the land concerning which ,i sware to make you dwell therein1 save ,caleb the son of ,jephunneh1 and ,joshua the son of ,nun4 ,but your little ones1 which ye said should be a prey1 them will ,i bring in1 and they shall know the land which ye have despised4 ,but as for you1 your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness4 ,and your children shall wander in the wilderness forty #bci years 99 99 99 until your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness4 ,and all this because the people were afraid of giants1 compared with whom they were but as grass- hoppers4 ,so we find that at one time the people became exceedingly hungry4 ,they had no flesh to eat4 ,there were six hundred thousand men of war1 and they had nothing to feed on but manna4 ,they naturally murmured and complained1 and thereupon a wind from the ,lord went forth and brought quails from the sea1 7quails are generally found in the sea17 and let them fall by the camp1 as it were a day's journey on this side1 and as it were a day's journey on the other side1 round about the camp1 and as it were two cubits high upon the face of the earth4 ,and the people stood up all that day1 and all that night1 and all the next day1 and they gathered the quails4 99 99 99 ,and while the flesh was yet be- tween their teeth1 ere it was chewed1 the wrath of the ,lord was kindled against the people1 and the ,lord smote the people with a very great plague4 ,yet he is slow to anger1 long-suffering1 merciful and just4 ,in the thirty-second chapter of ,exodus1 is the ac- #bdj count of the golden calf4 ,it must be borne in mind that the worship of this calf by the people was before the ,ten ,commandments had been given to them4 ,christians now insist that these commandments must have been inspired1 because no human being could have constructed them1--could have conceived of them4 ,it seems1 according to this account1 that ,moses had been up in the mount with ,god1 getting the ,ten ,com- mandments1 and that while he was there the people had made the golden calf4 ,when he came down and saw them1 and found what they had done1 having in his hands the two tables1 the work of ,god1 he cast the tables out of his hands1 and broke them beneath the mount4 ,he then took the calf which they had made1 ground it to powder1 strewed it in the water1 and made the children of ,israel drink of it4 ,and in the twenty-seventh verse we are told what the ,lord did3 ,thus saith the ,lord ,god of ,israel3 ,put every man his sword by his side1 and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp1 and slay every man his brother1 and every man his companion1 and every man his neighbor4 ,and the children of ,levi did according to the word of ,moses2 and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men4 #bda ,the reason for this slaughter is thus given3 ,for ,moses had said3 ,consecrate yourselves to-day to the ,lord1 even every man upon his son1 and upon his brother1 that he may bestow upon you a blessing this day4 ,now1 it must be remembered that there had not been as yet a promulgation of the commandment u ,thou shalt have no other gods before me4 ,this was a punishment for the infraction of a law before the law was known--before the commandment had been given4 ,was it cruel1 or unjust8 ,does the following sound as though spoken by a ,god of mercy3 ,i will make mine arrows drunk with blood1 and my sword shall devour flesh8 ,and yet this is but a small part of the vengeance and destruction which ,god threatens to his enemies1 as recorded in the thirty-second chapter of the book of ,deuteronomy4 ,in the sixty-eighth ,psalm is found this merciful passage3 ,that thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies1 and the tongue of thy dogs in the same4 ,so we find in the eleventh chapter of ,joshua the reason why the ,canaanites and other nations made war upon the ,jews4 ,it is as follows3 ,for it was of #bdb the ,lord to harden their hearts that they should come against ,israel in battle1 that he might destroy them utterly1 and that they might have no favor1 but that he might destroy them4 ,read the thirtieth chapter of ,exodus and you will find that ,god gave to ,moses a recipe for making the oil of holy anointment1 and in the thirty-second verse we find that no one was to make any oil like it and in the next verse it is declared that whoever compounded any like it1 or whoever put any of it on a stranger1 should be cut off from the ,lord's people4 ,in the same chapter1 a recipe is given for per- fumery1 and it is declared that whoever shall make any like it1 or that smells like it1 shall suffer death4 ,in the next chapter1 it is decreed that if any one fails to keep the ,sabbath he shall be surely put to death4 ,there are in the ,pentateuch hundreds and hun- dreds of passages showing the cruelty of ,jehovah4 ,what could have been more cruel than the flood8 ,what more heartless than to overwhelm a world8 ,what more merciless than to cover a shoreless sea with the corpses of men1 women and children8 ,the ,pentateuch is filled with anathemas1 with curses1 with words of vengeance1 of jealousy1 of hatred1 and brutality4 ,by reason of these passages1 #bdc millions of people have plucked from their hearts the flowers of pity and justified the murder of women and the assassination of babes4 ,in the second chapter of ,second ,kings we find that the prophet ,elisha was on his way to a place called ,bethel1 and as he was going1 there came forth little children out of the city and mocked him and said3 ,go up thou bald head2 ,go up thou bald head6 ,and he turned back and looked on them and cursed them in the name of the ,lord4 ,and there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them4 ,of course he obtained his miraculous power from ,jehovah2 and there must have been some communi- cation between ,jehovah and the bears4 ,why did the bears come8 ,how did they happen to be there8 ,here is a prophet of ,god cursing children in the name of the ,lord1 and thereupon these children are torn in fragments by wild beasts4 ,this is the mercy of ,jehovah2 and yet ,i am told that the ,bible has nothing cruel in it2 that it preaches only mercy1 justice1 charity1 peace2 that all hearts are softened by reading it2 that the savage nature of man is melted into tenderness and pity by it1 and that only the totally depraved can find evil in it4 #bdd ,and so ,i might go on1 page after page1 book after book1 in the ,old ,testament1 and describe the cruelties committed in accordance with the commands of ,jehovah4 ,but all the cruelties in the ,old ,testament are ab- solute mercies compared with the hell of the ,new ,testament4 ,in the ,old ,testament ,god stops with the grave4 ,he seems to have been satisfied when he saw his enemies dead1 when he saw their flesh rotting in the open air1 or in the beaks of birds1 or in the teeth of wild beasts4 ,but in the ,new ,testament1 ven- geance does not stop with the grave4 ,it begins there1 and stops never4 ,the enemies of ,jehovah are to be pursued through all the ages of eternity4 ,there is to be no forgiveness--no cessation1 no mercy1 nothing but everlasting pain4 ,and yet we are told that the author of hell is a being of infinite mercy4 ,second2 ,all intelligent ,christians will admit that there are many passages in the ,bible that1 if found in the ,koran1 they would regard as impure and immoral4 ,it is not necessary for me to specify the passages1 nor to call the attention of the public to such things4 ,i am willing to trust the judgment of every honest reader1 and the memory of every biblical student4 #bde ,the ,old ,testament upholds polygamy4 ,that is infinitely impure4 ,it sanctions concubinage4 ,that is impure2 nothing could or can be worse4 ,hun- dreds of things are publicly told that should have re- mained unsaid4 ,no one is made better by reading the history of ,tamar1 or the biography of ,lot1 or the memoirs of ,noah1 of ,dinah1 of ,sarah and ,abraham1 or of ,jacob and ,leah and ,rachel and others that ,i do not care to mention4 ,no one is improved in his morals by reading these things4 ,all ,i mean to say is1 that the ,bible is like other books produced by other nations in the same stage of civilization4 ,what one age considers pure1 the next considers impure4 ,what one age may consider just1 the next may look upon as infamous4 ,civiliza- tion is a growth4 ,it is continually dying1 and continu- ally being born4 ,old branches rot and fall1 new buds appear4 ,it is a perpetual twilight1 and a perpetual dawn--the death of the old1 and the birth of the new4 ,i do not say1 throw away the ,bible because there are some foolish passages in it1 but ,i say1 throw away the foolish passages4 ,don't throw away wisdom because it is found in company with folly2 but do not say that folly is wisdom1 because it is found in its company4 ,all that is true in the ,bible is true whether #bdf it is inspired or not4 ,all that is true did not need to be inspired4 ,only that which is not true needs the assistance of miracles and wonders4 ,i read the ,bible as ,i read other books4 ,what ,i believe to be good1 ,i admit is good2 what ,i think is bad1 ,i say is bad2 what ,i believe to be true1 ,i say is true1 and what ,i believe to be false1 ,i denounce as false4 ,third4 ,let us see whether there are any contra- dictions in the ,bible4 ,a little book has been published1 called ,self ,contradictions of the ,bible1 by ,j4 ,p4 ,mendum1 of ,the ,boston ,investigator4 ,i find many of the apparent contradictions of the ,bible noted in this book4 ,we all know that the ,pentateuch is filled with the commandments of ,god upon the subject of sacrificing animals4 ,we know that ,god declared1 again and again1 that the smell of burning flesh was a sweet savor to him4 ,chapter after chapter is filled with direc- tions how to kill the beasts that were set apart for sacrifices2 what to do with their blood1 their flesh and their fat4 ,and yet1 in the seventh chapter of ,jeremiah1 all this is expressly denied1 in the following language3 ,for ,i spake not unto your fathers1 nor commanded them in the day that ,i brought them out of the land of ,egypt1 concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices4 #bdg ,and in the sixth chapter of ,jeremiah1 the same ,jehovah says2 ,your burnt offerings are not ac- ceptable1 nor your sacrifices sweet unto me4 ,in the ,psalms1 ,jehovah derides the idea of sacrifices1 and says3 ,will ,i eat of the flesh of bulls1 or drink the blood of goats8 ,offer unto ,god thanksgiving1 and pay thy vows unto the ,most ,high4 ,so ,i find in ,isaiah the following3 ,bring no more vain oblations2 incense is an abomination unto me2 the new moons and sabbaths1 the calling of as- semblies1 ,i cannot away with2 it is iniquity1 even the solemn meeting4 ,your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth2 they are a trouble to me2 ,i am weary to bear them4 ,to what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me8 saith the ,lord4 ,i am full of the burnt offerings of rams1 and the fat of fed beasts2 and ,i delight not in the blood of bullocks1 or of lambs1 or of he goats4 ,when ye come to appear before me1 who hath re- quired this at your hand8 ,so ,i find in ,james3 ,let no man say when he is tempted3 ,i am tempted of ,god2 for ,god cannot be tempted with evil1 neither tempteth he any man2 and yet in the twenty-second chapter of ,genesis ,i #bdh find this3 ,and it came to pass after these things1 that ,god did tempt ,abraham4 ,in ,second ,samuel we see that he tempted ,david4 ,he also tempted ,job1 and ,jeremiah says3 ,o ,lord1 thou hast deceived me1 and ,i was deceived4 ,to such an extent was ,jeremiah deceived1 that in the fourteenth chapter and eighteenth verse we find him crying out to the ,lord3 ,wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar8 ,so in ,second ,thessalonians3 ,for these things ,god shall send them strong delusions1 that they should believe a lie4 ,so in ,first ,kings1 twenty-second chapter3 ,behold1 the ,lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets1 and the ,lord hath spoken evil concerning thee4 ,so in ,ezekiel3 ,and if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing1 ,i1 the ,lord1 have de- ceived that prophet4 ,so ,i find3 ,thou shalt not bear false witness2 and in the book of ,revelation3 ,all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone2 yet in ,first ,kings1 twenty-second chapter1 ,i find the following3 ,and the ,lord said3 ,who shall persuade ,ahab1 that he may go up and #bdi fall at ,ramoth-,gilead8 ,and one said on this manner1 and another said on that manner4 ,and there came forth a spirit and stood before the ,lord1 and said3 ,i will persuade him4 ,and the ,lord said unto him3 ,wherewith8 ,and he said3 ,i will go forth1 and ,i will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets4 ,and he said3 ,thou shalt persuade him1 and prevail also4 ,go forth1 and do so4 ,in the ,old ,testament we find contradictory laws about the same thing1 and contradictory accounts of the same occurrences4 ,in the twentieth chapter of ,exodus we find the first account of the giving of the ,ten ,commandments4 ,in the thirty-fourth chapter another account of the same transaction is given4 ,these two accounts could not have been written by the same person4 ,read them1 and you will be forced to admit that both of them cannot by any possibility be true4 ,they differ in so many particulars1 and the commandments themselves are so different1 that it is impossible that both can be true4 ,so there are two histories of the creation4 ,if you will read the first and second chapters of ,genesis1 you will find two accounts inconsistent with each other1 both of which cannot be true4 ,the first account #bej ends with the third verse of the second chapter of ,genesis4 ,by the first account1 man and woman were made at the same time1 and made last of all4 ,in the second account1 not to be too critical1 all the beasts of the field were made before ,eve was1 and ,adam was made before the beasts of the field2 whereas in the first account1 ,god made all the animals before he made ,adam4 ,in the first account there is nothing about the rib or the bone or the side1--that is only found in the second account4 ,in the first account1 there is nothing about the ,garden of ,eden1 nothing about the four rivers1 nothing about the mist that went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground2 nothing said about making man from dust2 nothing about ,god breathing into his nostrils the breath of life2 yet according to the second ac- count1 the ,garden of ,eden was planted1 and all the animals were made before ,eve was formed4 ,it is impossible to harmonize the two accounts4 ,so1 in the first account1 only the word ,god is used--,god said so and so1--,god did so and so4 ,in the second account he is called ,lord ,god1--the ,lord ,god formed man1--the ,lord ,god caused it to rain1--the ,lord ,god planted a garden4 ,it is now admitted that the book of ,genesis is made up #bea of two stories1 and it is very easy to take them apart and show exactly how they were put together4 ,so there are two stories of the flood1 differing almost entirely from each other--that is to say1 so contradictory that both cannot be true4 ,there are two accounts of the manner in which ,saul was made king1 and the accounts are inconsistent with each other4 ,scholars now everywhere admit that the copyists made many changes1 pieced out fragments1 and made additions1 interpolations1 and meaningless repetitions4 ,it is now generally conceded that the speeches of ,elihu1 in ,job1 were interpolated1 and most of the prophecies were made by persons whose names even are not known4 ,the manuscripts of the ,old ,testament were not alike4 ,the ,greek version differed from the ,hebrew1 and there was no generally received text of the ,old ,testament until after the beginning of the ,christian era4 ,marks and points to denote vowels were in- vented probably in the seventh century after ,christ2 and whether these marks and points were put in the proper places1 is still an open question4 ,the ,alex- andrian version1 or what is known as the ,septuagint1 translated by seventy-two learned ,jews assisted by #beb miraculous power1 about two hundred years before ,christ1 could not1 it is now said1 have been translated from the ,hebrew text that we now have4 ,this can only be accounted for by supposing that we have a different ,hebrew text4 ,the early ,christians adopted the ,septuagint and were satisfied for a time2 but so many errors were found1 and so many were scanning every word in search of something to assist their peculiar views1 that new versions were produced1 and the new versions all differed somewhat from the ,septuagint as well as from each other4 ,these ver- sions were mostly in ,greek4 ,the first ,latin ,bible was produced in ,africa1 and no one has ever found out which ,latin manuscript was original4 ,many were produced1 and all differed from each other4 ,these ,latin versions were compared with each other and with the ,hebrew1 and a new ,latin version was made in the fifth century1 and the old ones held their own for about four hundred years1 and no one knows which version was right4 ,besides1 there were ,ethi- opie1 ,egyptian1 ,armenian and several other ver- sions1 all differing from each other as well as from all others4 ,it was not until the fourteenth century that the ,bible was translated into ,german1 and not until the fifteenth that ,bibles were printed in the principal #bec languages of ,europe2 and most of these ,bibles differed from each other1 and gave rise to endless disputes and to almost numberless crimes4 ,no man in the world is learned enough1 nor has he time enough1 even if he could live a thousand years1 to find what books belonged to and consti- tuted the ,old ,testament4 ,he could not ascertain the authors of the books1 nor when they were written1 nor what they mean4 ,until a man has sufficient time to do all this1 no one can tell whether he be- lieves the ,bible or not4 ,it is sufficient1 however1 to say that the ,old ,testament is filled with contradic- tions as to the number of men slain in battle1 as to the number of years certain kings reigned1 as to the number of a woman's children1 as to dates of events1 and as to locations of towns and cities4 ,besides all this1 many of its laws are contradictory1 often commanding and prohibiting the same thing4 ,the ,new ,testament also is filled with contradic- tions4 ,the gospels do not even agree upon the terms of salvation4 ,they do not even agree as to the gospel of ,christ1 as to the mission of ,christ4 ,they do not tell the same story regarding the be- trayal1 the crucifixion1 the resurrection or the ascen- sion of ,christ4 ,john is the only one that ever heard #bed of being born again4 ,the evangelists do not give the same account of the same miracles1 and the miracles are not given in the same order4 ,they do not agree even in the genealogy of ,christ4 ,fourth4 ,is the ,bible scientific8 ,in my judgment it is not ,it is unscientific to say that this world was cre- ated that the universe was produced by an infinite being1 who had existed an eternity prior to such creation4 ,my mind is such that ,i cannot possibly conceive of a creation4 ,neither can ,i conceive of an infinite being who dwelt in infinite space an infi- nite length of time4 ,i do not think it is scientific to say that the uni- verse was made in six days1 or that this world is only about six thousand years old1 or that man has only been upon the earth for about six thousand years4 ,if the ,bible is true1 ,adam was the first man4 ,the age of ,adam is given1 the age of his children1 and the time1 according to the ,bible1 was kept and known from ,adam1 so that if the ,bible is true1 man has only been in this world about six thousand years4 ,in my judgment1 and in the judgment of every scientific man whose judgment is worth having or quoting1 man inhabited this earth for thousands of ages prior #bee to the creation of ,adam4 ,on one point the ,bible is at least certain1 and that is1 as to the life of ,adam4 ,the genealogy is given1 the pedigree is there1 and it is impossible to escape the conclusion that1 according to the ,bible1 man has only been upon this earth about six thousand years4 ,there is no chance there to say long periods of time1 or geological ages4 ,there we have the years4 ,and as to the time of the creation of man1 the ,bible does not tell the truth4 ,what is generally called ,the ,fall of ,man is unscientific4 ,god could not have made a moral character for ,adam4 ,even admitting the rest of the story to be true1 ,adam certainly had to make char- acter for himself4 ,the idea that there never would have been any disease or death in this world had it not been for the eating of the forbidden fruit is preposterously unsci- entific4 ,admitting that ,adam was made only six thousand years ago1 death was in the world millions of years before that time4 ,the old rocks are filled with re- mains of what were once living and breathing animals4 ,continents were built up with the petrified corpses of animals4 ,we know1 therefore1 that death did not enter the world because of ,adam's sin4 ,we know that life and death are but successive links in an eternal chain4 #bef ,so it is unscientific to say that thorns and brambles were produced by ,adam's sin4 ,it is also unscientific to say that labor was pro- nounced as a curse upon man4 ,labor is not a curse4 ,labor is a blessing4 ,idleness is a curse4 ,it is unscientific to say that the sons of ,god1 living1 we suppose1 in heaven1 fell in love with the daughters of men1 and that on account of this a flood was sent upon the earth that covered the highest mountains4 ,the whole story of the flood is unscientific1 and no scientific man worthy of the name1 believes it4 ,neither is the story of the tower of ,babel a scien- tific thing4 ,does any scientific man believe that ,god confounded the language of men for fear they would succeed in building a tower high enough to reach to heaven8 ,it is not scientific to say that angels were in the habit of walking about the earth1 eating veal dressed with butter and milk1 and making bargains about the destruction of cities4 ,the story of ,lot's wife having been turned into a pillar of salt is extremely unscientific4 ,it is unscientific to say that people at one time lived to be nearly a thousand years of age4 ,the history #beg of the world shows that human life is lengthening instead of shortening4 ,it is unscientific to say that the infinite ,god wrestled with ,jacob and got the better of him1 put- ting his thigh out of joint4 ,it is unscientific to say that ,god1 in the likeness of a flame of fire1 inhabited a bush4 ,it is unscientific to say that a stick could be changed into a living snake4 ,living snakes can not be made out of sticks4 ,there are not the necessary elements in a stick to make a snake4 ,it is not scientific to say that ,god changed water into blood4 ,all the elements of blood are not in water4 ,it is unscientific to declare that dust was changed into lice4 ,it is not scientific to say that ,god caused a thick darkness over the land of ,egypt1 and yet allowed it to be light in the houses of the ,jews4 ,it is not scientific to say that about seventy people could1 in two hundred and fifteen years increase to three millions4 ,it is not scientific to say that an infinitely good ,god would destroy innocent people to get revenge upon a king4 #beh ,it is not scientific to say that slavery was once right1 that polygamy was once a virtue1 and that ex- termination was mercy4 ,it is not scientific to assert that a being of infinite power and goodness went into partnership with in- sects1--granted letters of marque and reprisal to hornets4 ,it is unscientific to insist that bread was really rained from heaven4 ,it is not scientific to suppose that an infinite being spent forty days and nights furnishing ,moses with plans and specifications for a tabernacle1 an ark1 a mercy seat1 cherubs of gold1 a table1 four rings1 some dishes1 some spoons1 one candlestick1 several bowls1 a few knobs1 seven lamps1 some snuffers1 a pair of tongs1 some cur- tains1 a roof for a tent of rams' skins dyed red1 a few boards1 an altar with horns1 ash pans1 basins and flesh hooks1 shovels and pots and sockets of silver and ouches of gold and pins of brass--for all of which this ,god brought with him patterns from heaven4 ,it is not scientific to say that when a man commits a sin1 he can settle with ,god by killing a sheep4 ,it is not scientific to say that a priest1 by laying his hands on the head of a goat1 can transfer the sins of a people to the animal4 #bei ,was it scientific to endeavor to ascertain whether a woman was virtuous or not1 by compelling her to drink water mixed with dirt from the floor of the sanctuary8 ,is it scientific to say that a dry stick budded1 blossomed1 and bore almonds2 or that the ashes of a red heifer mixed with water can cleanse us of sin2 or that a good being gave cities into the hands of the ,jews in consideration of their murdering all the in- habitants8 ,is it scientific to say that an animal saw an angel1 and conversed with a man8 ,is it scientific to imagine that thrusting a spear through the body of a woman ever stayed a plague8 ,is it scientific to say that a river cut itself in two and allowed the lower end to run off8 ,is it scientific to assert that seven priests blew seven rams' horns loud enough to blow down the walls of a city8 ,is it scientific to say that the sun stood still in the midst of heaven1 and hasted not to go down for about a whole day1 and that the moon also stayed8 ,is it scientifically probable that an angel of the ,lord devoured unleavened cakes and broth with fire that came out of the end of a stick1 as he sat #bfj under an oak tree2 or that ,god made known his will by letting dew fall on wool without wetting the ground around it2 or that an angel of ,god appeared to ,manoah in the absence of her husband1 and that this angel afterwards went up in a flame of fire1 and as the result of this visit a child was born whose strength was in his hair8 ,is it scientific to say that the muscle of a man de- pended upon the length of his locks8 ,is it unscientific to deny that water gushed from a hollow place in a dry bone8 ,is it evidence of a thoroughly scientific mind to believe that one man turned over a house so large that three thousand people were on its roof8 ,is it purely scientific to say that a man was once fed by the birds of the air1 who brought him bread and meat every morning and evening1 and that after- ward an angel turned cook and prepared two sup- pers in one night1 for the same prophet1 who ate enough to last him forty days and forty nights8 ,is it scientific to say that a river divided because the water had been struck with a cloak2 or that a man actually went to heaven in a chariot of fire drawn by horses of fire2 or that a being of infinite mercy would destroy children for laughing at a bald- #bfa headed prophet2 or curse children and childrens children with leprosy for a father's fault2 or that he made iron float in water2 or that when one corpse touched another it came to life2 or that the sun went backward in heaven so that the shadow on a sun- dial went back ten degrees1 as a sign that a miserable barbarian king would get well8 ,is it scientific to say that the earth not only stopped in its rotary motion1 but absolutely turned the other way1--that its motion was reversed simply as a sign to a petty king8 ,is it scientific to say that ,solomon made gold and silver at ,jerusalem as plentiful as stones1 when we know that there were kings in his day who could have thrown away the value of the whole of ,palestine without missing the amount8 ,is it scientific to say that ,solomon exceeded all the kings of the earth in glory1 when his country was barren1 without roads1 when his people were few1 without commerce1 without the arts1 without the sciences1 without education1 without luxuries8 ,according to the ,bible1 as long as ,jehovah attended to the affairs of the ,jews1 they had nothing but war1 pestilence and famine2 after ,jehovah abandoned them1 and the ,christians ceased1 in a measure1 to persecute #bfb them1 the ,jews became the most prosperous of people4 ,since ,jehovah in his anger cast them away1 they have produced painters1 sculptors1 scientists1 statesmen1 composers1 soldiers and philosophers4 ,it is not scientific to believe that ,god ever pre- vented rain1 that he ever caused famine1 that he ever sent locusts to devour the wheat and corn1 that he ever relied on pestilence for the government of man- kind2 or that he ever killed children to get even with their parents4 ,it is not scientific to believe that the king of ,egypt invaded ,palestine with seventy thousand horsemen and twelve hundred chariots of war4 ,there was not1 at that time1 a road in ,palestine over which a chariot could be driven4 ,it is not scientific to believe that in a battle between ,jeroboam and ,abijah1 the army of ,abijah slew in one day five hundred thousand chosen men4 ,it is not scientific to believe that ,zerah1 the ,ethio- pian1 invaded ,palestine with a million of men who were overthrown and destroyed2 or that ,jehoshaphat had a standing army of nine hundred and sixty thousand men4 ,it is unscientific to believe that ,jehovah advertised for a liar1 as is related in ,second ,chronicles4 #bfc ,it is not scientific to believe that fire refused to burn1 or that water refused to wet4 ,it is not scientific to believe in dreams1 in visions1 and in miracles4 ,it is not scientific to believe that children have been born without fathers1 that the dead have ever been raised to life1 or that people have bodily as- cended to heaven taking their clothes with them4 ,it is not scientific to believe in the supernatural4 ,science dwells in the realm of fact1 in the realm of demonstration4 ,science depends upon human ex- perience1 upon observation1 upon reason4 ,it is unscientific to say that an innocent man can be punished in place of a criminal1 and for a criminal1 and that the criminal1 on account of such punishment1 can be justified4 ,it is unscientific to say that a finite sin deserves infinite punishment4 ,it is unscientific to believe that devils can inhabit human beings1 or that they can take possession of swine1 or that the devil could bodily take a man1 or the ,son of ,god1 and carry him to the pinnacle of a temple4 ,in short1 the foolish1 the unreasonable1 the false1 the miraculous and the supernatural are unscientific4 #bfd ,question4 ,mr4 ,talmage gives his reason for accepting the ,new ,testament1 and says3 ,you can trace it right out4 ,jerome and ,eusebius in the first century1 and ,origen in the second century1 gave lists of the writers of the ,new ,testament4 ,these lists correspond with our list of the writers of the ,new ,testament1 showing that precisely as we have it1 they had it in the third and fourth cen- turies4 ,where did they get it8 ,from ,irenaeus4 ,where did he get it8 ,from ,polycarp4 ,where did ,polycarp get it8 ,from ,saint ,john1 who was a per- sonal associate of ,jesus4 ,the line is just as clear as anything ever was clear4 ,how do you under- stand this matter1 and has ,mr4 ,talmage stated the facts8 ,answer4 ,let us examine first the witnesses pro- duced by ,mr4 ,talmage4 ,we will also call attention to the great principle laid down by ,mr4 ,talmage for the examination of evidence1--that where a witness is found false in one particular1 his entire testimony must be thrown away4 ,eusebius was born somewhere about two hundred and seventy years after ,christ4 ,after many vicissi- tudes he became1 it is said1 the friend of ,constantine4 ,he made an oration in which he extolled the virtues #bfe of this murderer1 and had the honor of sitting at the right hand of the man who had shed the blood of his wife and son4 ,in the great controversy with regard to the position that ,christ should occupy in the ,trinity1 he sided with ,arius1 and lent himself to the perse- cution of the orthodox with ,athanasius4 ,he in- sisted that ,jesus ,christ was not the same as ,god1 and that he was not of equal power and glory4 ,will ,mr4 ,talmage admit that his witness told the truth in this8 ,he would not even call the ,son co-eternal with ,god4 ,eusebius must have been an exceedingly truthful man4 ,he declared that the tracks of ,pharaoh's chariots were in his day visible upon the shores of the ,red ,sea2 that these tracks had been through all the years miraculously preserved from the action of wind and wave1 as a supernatural testimony to the fact that ,god miraculously overwhelmed ,pharaoh and his hosts4 ,eusebius also relates that when ,joseph and ,mary arrived in ,eygpt they took up their abode in ,hermopolis1 a city of ,thebaeus1 in which was the superb temple of ,serapis4 ,when ,joseph and ,mary entered the temple1 not only the great idol1 but all the lesser idols fell down before him4 #bff ,it is believed by the learned ,dr4 ,lardner1 that ,eusebius was the one guilty of the forgery in the passage found in ,josephus concerning ,christ4 ,un- blushing falsehoods and literary forgeries of the vilest character darkened the pages of his historical writings4 7,waites ,history47 ,from the same authority ,i learn that ,eusebius invented an eclipse1 and some earthquakes1 to agree with the account of the crucifixion4 ,it is also be- lieved that ,eusebius quoted from works that never existed1 and that he pretended a work had been written by ,porphyry1 entitled3 ,the ,philosophy of ,oracles1 and then quoted from it for the purpose of proving the truth of the ,christian religion4 ,the fact is1 ,eusebius was utterly destitute of truth4 ,he believed1 as many still believe1 that he could please ,god by the fabrication of lies4 ,irenaeus lived somewhere about the end of the second century4 ,very little is known of his early history1 and the accounts given in various biogra- phies are for the most part conjectural4 ,the writings of ,irenaeus are known to us principally through ,eusebius1 and we know the value of his testimony4 ,now1 if we are to take the testimony of ,irenaeus1 #bfg why not take it8 ,he says that the ministry of ,christ lasted for twenty years1 and that ,christ was fifty years old at the time of his crucifixion4 ,he also insisted that the ,gospel of ,paul was written by ,luke1 a statement made to give sanction to the gospel of ,luke4 ,irenaeus insisted that there were four gospels1 that there must be1 and he speaks frequently of these gospels1 and argues that they should be four in number1 neither more nor less1 because there are four universal winds1 and four quarters of the world2 and he might have added3 because donkeys have four legs4 ,these facts can be found in ,the ,history of the ,christian ,religion to ,a4 ,d4 #bjj1 by ,charles ,b4 ,waite1--a book that ,mr4 ,talmage ought to read4 ,according to ,mr4 ,waite1 ,irenaeus1 in the thirty- third chapter of his fifth book1 ,adversus ,haereses1 cites from ,papias the following sayings of ,christ3 ,the days will come in which vines shall grow which shall have ten thousand branches1 and on each branch ten thousand twigs1 and in each twig ten thousand shoots1 and in each shoot ten thousand clusters1 and in every one of the clusters ten thousand grapes1 and every grape when pressed #bfh will give five and twenty metrets of wine4 ,also that one thousand million pounds of clear1 pure1 fine flour will be produced from one grain of wheat4 ,irenaeus adds that these things were borne witness to by ,papias the hearer of ,john and the companion of ,polycarp4 ,is it possible that the eternal welfare of a human being depends upon believing the testimony of ,poly- carp and ,irenaeus8 ,are people to be saved or lost on the reputation of ,eusebius8 ,suppose a man is firmly convinced that ,polycarp knew nothing about ,saint ,john1 and that ,saint ,john knew nothing about ,christ1--what then8 ,suppose he is convinced that ,eusebius is utterly unworthy of credit1--what then8 ,must a man believe statements that he has every reason to think are false8 ,the question arises as to the witnesses named by ,mr4 ,talmage1 whether they were competent to decide as to the truth or falsehood of the gospels4 ,we have the right to inquire into their mental traits for the purpose of giving only due weight to what they have said4 ,mr4 ,bronson ,c4 ,keeler is the author of a book called3 ,a ,short ,history of the ,bible4 ,i avail myself of a few of the facts he has there collected4 ,i #bfi find in this book1 that ,irenaeus1 ,clement and ,origen believed in the fable of the ,phoenix1 and insisted that ,god produced the bird on purpose to prove the probability of the resurrection of the body4 ,some of the early fathers believed that the hyena changed its sex every year4 ,others of them gave as a reason why good people should eat only animals with a cloven foot1 the fact that righteous people lived not only in this world1 but had expectations in the next4 ,they also believed that insane people were pos- sessed by devils2 that angels ate manna2 that some angels loved the daughters of men and fell2 that the pains of women in childbirth1 and the fact that ser- pents crawl on their bellies1 were proofs that the account of the fall1 as given in ,genesis1 is true2 that the stag renewed its youth by eating poisonous snakes2 that eclipses and comets were signs of ,god's anger2 that volcanoes were openings into hell2 that demons blighted apples2 that a corpse in a cemetery moved to make room for another corpse to be placed beside it4 ,clement of ,alexandria believed that hail storms1 tempests and plagues were caused by demons4 ,he also believed1 with ,mr4 ,talmage1 that the events in the life of ,abraham were typical and prophetical of arithmetic and astronomy4 #bgj ,origen1 another of the witnesses of ,mr4 ,talmage1 said that the sun1 moon and stars were living crea- tures1 endowed with reason and free will1 and occa- sionally inclined to sin4 ,that they had free will1 he proved by quoting from ,job2 that they were rational creatures1 he inferred from the fact that they moved4 ,the sun1 moon and stars1 according to him1 were subject to vanity1 and he believed that they prayed to ,god through his only begotten son4 ,these intelligent witnesses believed that the blight- ing of vines and fruit trees1 and the disease and de- struction that came upon animals and men1 were all the work of demons2 but that when they had entered into men1 the sign of the cross would drive them out4 ,they derided the idea that the earth is round1 and one of them said3 ,about the antipodes also1 one can neither hear nor speak without laughter4 ,it is asserted as something serious that we should be- lieve that there are men who have their feet oppo- site to ours4 ,the ravings of ,anaxagoras are more tolerable1 who said that snow was black4 ,concerning these early fathers1 ,professor ,davidson1 as quoted by ,mr4 ,keeler1 uses the following lan- guage3 ,of the three fathers who contributed most to the growth of the canon1 ,irenaeus was #bga credulous and blundering2 ,tertullian passionate and one-sided2 and ,clement of ,alexandria1 im- bued with the treasures of ,greek wisdom1 was mainly occupied with ecclesiastical ethics4 ,their assertions show both ignorance and exaggeration4 ,these early fathers relied upon by ,mr4 ,talmage1 quoted from books now regarded as apocryphal-- books that have been thrown away by the church and are no longer considered as of the slightest authority4 ,upon this subject ,i again quote ,mr4 ,keeler3 ,clement quoted the ',gospel according to 'the ,hebrews1' which is now thrown away by the church2 he also quoted from the ,sibylline books and the ,pentateuch in the same sentence4 ,origen frequently cited the ,gospel of the ,hebrews4 ,jerome did the same1 and ,clement believed in the ',gospel 'according to the ,egyptians4' ,the ,shepherd of ,hermas1 a book in high repute in the early church1 and one which distinctly claims to have been inspired1 was quoted by ,irenaeus as ,scripture4 ,clement of ,alexandria said it was a divine revela- tion4 ,origen said it was divinely inspired1 and quoted it as ,holy ,scripture at the same time that he cited the ,psalms and ,epistles of ,paul4 ,jerome quoted the ',wisdom of ,jesus1 the ,son of ,sirach1' #bgb as divine ,scripture4 ,origen quotes the ',wisdom of ,solomon' as the ',word of ,god' and 'the 'words of ,christ himself4' ,eusebius of ,caesarea cites it as a 99 ,divine ,oracle1' and ,st4 ,chrysostom used it as ,scripture4 ,so ,eusebius quotes the thirteenth chapter of ,daniel as ,scripture1 but as a matter of fact1 ,daniel has not a thirteenth chapter1-- the church has taken it away4 ,clement spoke of the writer of the fourth book of ,esdras as a prophet2 he thought ,baruch as much the word of ,god as any other book1 and he quotes it as divine ,scripture4 ,clement cites ,barnabas as an apostle4 ,origen quotes from the ,epistle of ,barnabas1 calls it ',holy ',scripture1' and places it on a level with the ,psalms and the ,epistles of ,paul2 and ,clement of ,alexan- dria believed in the ',epistle of ,barnabas1' and the ',revelation1 of ,peter1' and wrote comments upon these holy books4 ,nothing can exceed the credulity of the early fathers1 unless it may be their ignorance4 ,they be- lieved everything that was miraculous4 ,they believed everything except the truth4 ,anything that really happened was considered of no importance by them4 ,they looked for wonders1 miracles1 and monstrous things1 and--generally found them4 ,they revelled #bgc in the misshapen and the repulsive4 ,they did not think it wrong to swear falsely in a good cause4 ,they interpolated1 forged1 and changed the records to suit themselves1 for the sake of ,christ4 ,they quoted from persons who never wrote4 ,they misrepresented those who had written1 and their evidence is abso- lutely worthless4 ,they were ignorant1 credulous1 mendacious1 fanatical1 pious1 unreasonable1 bigoted1 hypocritical1 and for the most part1 insane4 ,read the book of ,revelation1 and you will agree with me that nothing that ever emanated from a madhouse can more than equal it for incoherence4 ,most of the writings of the early fathers are of the same kind4 ,as to ,saint ,john1 the real truth is1 that we know nothing certainly of him4 ,we do not know that he ever lived4 ,we know nothing certainly of ,jesus ,christ4 ,we know nothing of his infancy1 nothing of his youth1 and we are not sure that such a person ever existed4 ,we know nothing of ,polycarp4 ,we do not know where he was born1 or where1 or how he died4 ,we know nothing for certain about ,irenaeus4 ,all the names quoted by ,mr4 ,talmage as his witnesses are surrounded by clouds and doubts1 by mist and darkness4 ,we only know that many of their #bgd statements are false1 and do not know that any of them are true4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the following state- ment by ,mr4 ,talmage3 ,oh1 ,i have to tell you that no man ever died for a lie cheerfully and triumphantly8 ,answer4 ,there was a time when men cheerfully and triumphantly died in defence of the doctrine of the real presence of ,god in the wafer and wine4 ,does ,mr4 ,talmage believe in the doctrine of tran- substantiation8 ,yet hundreds have died cheer- fully and triumphantly for it4 ,men have died for the idea that baptism by immersion is the only scriptural baptism4 ,did they die for a lie8 ,if not1 is ,mr4 ,talmage a ,baptist8 ,giordano ,bruno was an atheist1 yet he perished at the stake rather than retract his opinions4 ,he did not expect to be welcomed by angels and by ,god4 ,he did not look for a crown of glory4 ,he expected simply death and eternal extinction4 ,does the fact that he died for that belief prove its truth8 ,thousands upon thousands have died in defence of the religion of ,mohammed4 ,was ,mohammed an im- postor8 ,thousands have welcomed death in defence of the doctrines of ,buddha4 ,is ,buddhism true8 #bge ,so ,i might make a tour of the world1 and of all ages of human history1 and find that millions and millions have died cheerfully and triumphantly in defence of their opinions4 ,there is not the slightest truth in ,mr4 ,talmage's statement4 ,a little while ago1 a man shot at the ,czar of ,russia4 ,on the day of his execution he was asked if he wished religious consolation4 ,he replied that he believed in no religion4 ,what did that prove8 ,it proved only the man's honesty of opinion4 ,all the martyrs in the world cannot change1 never did change1 a falsehood into a truth1 nor a truth into a falsehood4 ,martyrdom proves nothing but the sincerity of the martyr and the cruelty and mean- ness of his murderers4 ,thousands and thousands of people have imagined that they knew things1 that they were certain1 and have died rather than retract their honest beliefs4 ,mr4 ,talmage now says that he knows all about the ,old ,testament1 that the prophecies were fulfilled1 and yet he does not know when the prophecies were made--whether they were made before or after the fact4 ,he does not know whether the destruction of ,babylon was told before it happened1 or after4 ,he knows nothing upon the subject4 ,he does not know #bgf who made the pretended prophecies4 ,he does not know that ,isaiah1 or ,jeremiah1 or ,habakkuk1 or ,hosea ever lived in this world4 ,he does not know who wrote a single book of the ,old ,testament4 ,he knows nothing on the subject4 ,he believes in the inspiration of the ,old ,testament because ancient cities finally fell into decay--were overrun and de- stroyed by enemies1 and he accounts for the fact that the ,jew does not lose his nationality by saying that the ,old ,testament is true4 ,the ,jews have been persecuted by the ,christians1 and they are still persecuted by them2 and ,mr4 ,tal- mage seems to think that this persecution was a part of ,gods plan1 that the ,jews might1 by persecution1 be prevented from mingling with other nationalities1 and so might stand1 through the instrumentality of perpetual hate and cruelty1 the suffering witnesses of the divine truth of the ,bible4 ,the ,jews do not testify to the truth of the ,bible1 but to the barbarism and inhumanity of ,christians-- to the meanness and hatred of what we are pleased to call the civilized world4 ,they testify to the fact that nothing so hardens the human heart as religion4 ,there is no prophecy in the ,old ,testament fore- telling the coming of ,jesus ,christ4 ,there is not one #bgg word in the ,old ,testament referring to him in any way--not one word4 ,the only way to prove this is to take your ,bible1 and wherever you find these words3 ,that it might be fulfilled1 and which was spoken1 turn to the ,old ,testament and find what was written1 and you will see that it had not the slightest possible reference to the thing re- counted in the ,new ,testament--not the slightest4 ,let us take some of the prophecies of the ,bible1 and see how plain they are1 and how beautiful they are4 ,let us see whether any human being can tell whether they have ever been fulfilled or not4 ,here is a vision of ,ezekiel3 ,i looked1 and be- hold a whirlwind came out of the north1 a great cloud1 and a fire infolding itself1 and a brightness was about it1 and out of the midst thereof as the color of amber1 out of the midst of the fire4 ,also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures4 ,and this was their appearance2 they had the likeness of a man4 ,and every one had four faces1 and every one had four wings4 ,and their feet were straight feet2 and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot3 and they sparkled like the color of burnished brass4 ,and they had the hands of a man under their wings on #bgh their four sides2 and they four had their faces and their wings4 ,their wings were joined one to another2 they turned not when-they went2 they went every one straight forward4 ,as for the like- ness of their faces1 they four had the face of a man1 and the face of a lion1 on the right side3 and they four had the face of an ox on the left side2 they four also had the face of an eagle4 ,thus were their faces3 and their wings were stretched upward2 two wings of every one were joined one to another1 and two covered their bodies4 ,and they went every one straight forward3 whither the spirit was to go1 they went2 and they turned not when they went4 ,as for the likeness of the living creatures1 their appearance was like burning coals of fire1 and like the appearance of lamps3 it went up and down among the living creatures2 and the fire was bright1 and out of the fire went forth lightning4 ,and the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning4 ,now as ,i beheld the living creatures1 behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures1 with his four faces4 ,the appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the color of a beryl3 and #bgi they four had one likeness3 and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel4 ,when they went1 they went upon their four sides3 and they turned not when they went4 ,as for their rings1 they were so high that they were dreadful2 and their rings were full of eyes round about them four4 ,and when the living creatures went1 the wheels went by them3 and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth1 the wheels were lifted up4 ,whithersoever the spirit was to go1 they went1 thither was their spirit to go2 and the wheels were lifted up over against them3 for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels4 ,when those went1 these went2 and when those stood1 these stood2 and when those were lifted up from the earth1 the wheels were lifted up over against them3 for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels4 ,and the like- ness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the color of the terrible crystal1 stretched forth over their heads above4 ,and under the firmament were their wings straight1 the one toward the other2 every one had two1 which covered on this side1 and every one had two1 which covered on that side1 their bodies4 #bhj ,is such a vision a prophecy8 ,is it calculated to convey the slightest information8 ,if so1 what8 ,so1 the following vision of the prophet ,daniel is exceedingly important and instructive3 ,daniel spake and said3 ,i saw in my vision by night1 and behold1 the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea4 ,and four great beasts came up from the sea1 diverse one from another4 ,the first was like a lion1 and had eagle's wings3 ,i beheld till the wings thereof were plucked1 and it was lifted up from the earth1 and made stand upon the feet as a man1 and a man's heart was given to it4 ,and behold another beast1 a second1 like to a bear1 and it raised up itself on one side1 and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it3 and they said thus unto it1 ,arise1 devour much flesh4 ,after this ,i beheld1 and lo another1 like a leopard1 which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl2 the beast had also four heads1 and dominion was given to it4 ,after this ,i saw in the night visions1 and behold a fourth beast1 dreadful and terrible1 and strong ex- ceedingly2 and it had great iron teeth2 it devoured and brake in pieces1 and stamped the residue with #bha the feet of it2 and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it1 and it had ten horns4 ,i con- sidered the horns1 and1 behold1 there came up among them another little horn1 before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots3 and behold1 in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man1 and a mouth speaking great things4 ,i have no doubt that this prophecy has been liter- ally fulfilled1 but ,i am not at present in condition to give the time1 place1 or circumstances4 ,a few moments ago1 my attention was called to the following extract from ,the ,new ,york ,herald of the thirteenth of ,march1 instant3 ,at the ,fifth ,avenue ,baptist ,church1 ,dr4 ,armi- tage took as his text1 ',a wheel in the middle of a 'wheel'--,ezekiel1 i41 #af4 ,here1 said the preacher1 are three distinct visions in one--the living crea- tures1 the moving wheels and the fiery throne4 ,we have time only to stop the wheels of this mystic chariot of ,jehovah1 that we may hold holy converse with ,him who rides upon the wings of the wind4 ,in this vision of the prophet we have a minute and amplified account of these magnificent symbols or hieroglyphics1 this wondrous machinery which de- #bhb notes immense attributes and agencies and voli- tions1 passing their awful and mysterious course of power and intelligence in revolution after revolu- tion of the emblematical mechanism1 in steady and harmonious advancement to the object after which they are reaching4 ,we are compelled to look upon the whole as symbolical of that tender and endearing providence of which ,jesus spoke when ,he said1 ',the very hairs of your head are num- 99 bered4' ,certainly1 an ordinary person1 not having been illuminated by the spirit of prophecy1 would never have even dreamed that there was the slightest re- ference in ,ezekiel's vision to anything like counting hairs4 ,as a commentator1 the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,armitage has no equal2 and1 in my judgment1 no rival4 ,he has placed himself beyond the reach of ridicule4 ,it is impossible to say anything about his sermon as laughable as his sermon4 ,question4 ,have you no confidence in any pro- phecies8 ,do you take the ground that there never has been a human being who could predict the future8 ,answer4 ,i admit that a man of average intelli- #bhc gence knows that a certain course1 when pursued long enough1 will bring national disaster1 and it is perfectly safe to predict the downfall of any and every country in the world4 ,in my judgment1 nations1 like individuals1 have an average life4 ,every nation is mortal4 ,an immortal nation cannot be constructed of mortal individuals4 ,a nation has a reason for existing1 and that reason sustains the same relation to the nation that the acorn does to the oak4 ,the nation will attain its growth--other things being equal4 ,it will reach its manhood and its prime1 but it will sink into old age1 and at last must die4 ,probably1 in a few thousand years1 men will be able to calculate the average life of nations1 as they now calculate the average life of persons4 ,there has been no period since the morning of his- tory until now1 that men did not know of dead and dying nations4 ,there has always been a national cemetery4 ,poland is dead1 ,turkey is dying4 ,in every nation are the seeds of dissolution4 ,not only nations die1 but races of men4 ,a nation is born1 becomes powerful1 luxurious1 at last grows weak1 is overcome1 dies1 and another takes its place1 ,in this way civilization and barbarism1 like day and night1 alternate through all of history's years4 #bhd ,in every nation there are at least two classes of men3 ,first1 the enthusiastic1 the patriotic1 who be- lieve that the nation will live forever1--that its flag will float while the earth has air2 ,second1 the owls and ravens and croakers1 who are always predicting disaster1 defeat1 and death4 ,to the last class belong the ,jeremiahs1 ,ezekiels1 and ,isaiahs of the ,jews4 ,they were always predicting the downfall of ,jeru- salem4 ,they revelled in defeat and captivity4 ,they loved to paint the horrors of famine and war4 ,for the most part1 they were envious1 hateful1 misan- thropic and unjust4 ,there seems to have been a war between church and state4 ,the prophets were endeavoring to pre- serve the ecclesiastical power4 ,every king who would listen to them1 was chosen of ,god4 ,he instantly became the model of virtue1 and the prophets assured him that he was in the keeping of ,jehovah4 ,but if the king had a mind of his own1 the prophets im- mediately called down upon him all the curses of heaven1 and predicted the speedy destruction of his kingdom4 ,if our own country should be divided1 if an empire should rise upon the ruins of the ,republic1 it would be very easy to find that hundreds and thousands of #bhe people had foretold that very thing4 ,if you will read the political speeches of the last twenty-two years1 you will find prophecies to fit any possible future state of affairs in our country4 ,no matter what happens1 you will find that somebody predicted it4 ,if the city of ,london should lose her trade1 if the ,parliament house should become the abode of moles and bats1 if the ,new ,zealander should sit upon the ruins of ,london ,bridge1 all these things would be simply the fulfillment of prophecy4 ,the fall of every nation under the sun has been predicted by hundreds and thousands of people4 ,the prophecies of the ,old ,testament can be made to fit anything that may happen1 or that may not happen4 ,they will apply to the death of a king1 or to the destruction of a people1--to the loss of com- merce1 or the discovery of a continent4 ,each pro- phecy is a jugglery of words1 of figures1 of symbols1 so put together1 so used1 so interpreted1 that they can mean anything1 everything1 or nothing4 ,question4 ,do you see anything prophetic in the fate of the ,jewish people themselves8 ,do you think that ,god made the ,jewish people wanderers1 so that they might be perpetual witnesses to the truth of the ,scriptures8 #bhf ,answer4 ,i cannot believe that an infinitely good ,god would make anybody a wanderer4 ,neither can ,i believe that he would keep millions of people with- out country and without home1 and allow them to be persecuted for thousands of years1 simply that they might be used as witnesses4 ,nothing could be more absurdly cruel than this4 ,the ,christians justify their treatment of the ,jews on the ground that they are simply fulfilling prophecy4 ,the ,jews have suffered because of the horrid story that their ancestors crucified the ,son of ,god4 ,chris- tianity1 coming into power1 looked with horror upon the ,jews1 who denied the truth of the gospel4 ,each ,jew was regarded as a dangerous witness against ,christianity4 ,the early ,christians saw how neces- sary it was that the people who lived in ,jerusalem at the time of ,christ should be convinced that he was ,god1 and should testify to the miracles he wrought4 ,whenever a ,jew denied it1 the ,christian was filled with malignity and hatred1 and immediately excited the prejudice of other ,christians against the man simply because he was a ,jew4 ,they forgot1 in their general hatred1 that ,mary1 the mother of ,christ1 was a ,jewess2 that ,christ himself was of ,jewish blood2 and with an inconsistency of which1 of all #bhg religions1 ,christianity alone could have been guilty1 the ,jew became an object of especial hatred and aversion4 ,when we remember that ,christianity pretends to be a religion of love and kindness1 of charity and for- giveness1 must not every intelligent man be shocked by the persecution of the ,jews8 ,even now1 in learned and cultivated ,germany1 the ,jew is treated as though he were a wild beast4 ,the reputation of this great people has been stained by a persecution spring- ing only from ignorance and barbarian prejudice4 ,so in ,russia1 the ,christians are anxious to shed every drop of ,jewish blood1 and thousands are to-day fleeing from their homes to seek a refuge from ,chris- tian hate4 ,and ,mr4 ,talmage believes that all these persecutions are kept up by the perpetual intervention of ,god1 in order that the homeless wanderers of the seed of ,abraham may testify to the truth of the ,old and ,new ,testaments4 ,he thinks that every burning ,jewish home sheds light upon the gospel1--that every gash in ,jewish flesh cries out in favor of the ,bible1--that every violated ,jewish maiden shows the interest that ,god still takes in the preservation of his ,holy ,word4 ,i am endeavoring to do away with religious #bhh prejudice4 ,i wish to substitute humanity for super- stition1 the love of our fellow-men1 for the fear of ,god4 ,in the place of ignorant worship1 let us put good deeds4 ,we should be great enough and grand enough to know that the rights of the ,jew are pre- cisely the same as our own4 ,we cannot trample upon their rights1 without endangering our own2 and no man who will take liberty from another1 is great enough to enjoy liberty himself4 ,day by day ,christians are laying the foundation of future persecution4 ,in every ,sunday school little children are taught that ,jews killed the ,god of this universe4 ,their little hearts are filled with hatred against the ,jewish people4 ,they are taught as a part of the creed to despise the descendants of the only people with whom ,god is ever said to have had any conversation whatever4 ,when we take into consideration what the ,jewish people have suffered1 it is amazing that every one of them does not hate with all his heart and soul and strength the entire ,christian world4 ,but in spite of the persecutions they have endured1 they are to-day1 where they are permitted to enjoy reasonable liberty1 the most prosperous people on the globe4 ,the idea that their condition shows1 or tends to show1 that #bhi upon them abides the wrath of ,jehovah1 cannot be substantiated by the facts4 ,the ,jews to-day control the commerce of the world4 ,they control the money of the world4 ,it is for them to say whether nations shall or shall not go to war4 ,they are the people of whom nations borrow money4 ,to their offices kings come with their hats in their hands4 ,emperors beg them to discount their notes4 ,is all this a consequence of the wrath of ,god8 ,we find upon our streets no ,jewish beggars4 ,it is a rare sight to find one of these people standing as a criminal before a court4 ,they do not fill our alms- houses1 nor our penitentiaries1 nor our jails4 ,in- tellectually and morally they are the equal of any people4 ,they have become illustrious in every de- partment of art and science4 ,the old cry against them is at last perceived to be ignorant4 ,only a few years ago1 ,christians would rob a ,jew1 strip him of his possessions1 steal his money1 declare him an out- cast1 and drive him forth4 ,then they would point to him as a fulfillment of prophecy4 ,if you wish to see the difference between some ,jews and some ,christians1 compare the addresses of ,felix ,adler with the sermons of ,mr4 ,talmage4 #bij ,i cannot convince myself that an infinitely good and wise ,god holds a ,jewish babe in the cradle of to-day responsible for the crimes of ,caiaphas the high priest4 ,i hardly think that an infinitely good being would pursue this little babe through all its life simply to get revenge on those who died two thou- sand years ago4 ,an infinite being ought certainly to know that the child is not to blame2 and an infinite being who does not know this1 is not entitled to the love or adoration of any honest man4 ,there is a strange inconsistency in what ,mr4 ,tal- mage says4 ,for instance1 he finds great fault with me because ,i do not agree with the religious ideas of my father2 and he finds fault equally with the ,jews who do4 ,the ,jews who were true to the re- ligion of their fathers1 according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 have been made a by-word and a hissing and a re- proach among all nations1 and only those ,jews were fortunate and blest who abandoned the religion of their fathers4 ,the real reason for this inconsistency is this3 ,mr4 ,talmage really thinks that a man can believe as he wishes4 ,he imagines that evidence de- pends simply upon volition2 consequently1 he holds every one responsible for his belief4 ,being satisfied that he has the exact truth in this matter1 he meas- #bia ures all other people by his standard1 and if they fail by that measurement1 he holds them personally responsible1 and believes that his ,god does the same4 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage had been born in ,turkey1 he would in all probability have been a ,mohammedan1 and would now be denouncing some man who had denied the inspiration of the ,koran1 as the champion blas- phemer of ,constantinople4 ,certainly he would have been1 had his parents been ,mohammedans2 because1 according to his doctrine1 he would have been utterly lacking in respect and love for his father and mother had he failed to perpetuate their errors4 ,so1 had he been born in ,utah1 of ,mormon parents1 he would now have been a defender of polygamy4 ,he would not run the ploughshare of contempt through the graves of his parents1 by taking the ground that polygamy is wrong4 ,i presume that all of ,mr4 ,talmage's forefathers were not ,presbyterians4 ,there must have been a time when one of his progenitors left the faith of his father1 and joined the ,presbyterian ,church4 ,ac- cording to the reasoning of ,mr4 ,talmage1 that particular progenitor was an exceedingly bad man2 but had it not been for the crime of that bad man1 ,mr4 ,talmage might not now have been on the road to heaven4 #bib ,i hardly think that all the inventors1 the thinkers1 the philosophers1 the discoverers1 dishonored their parents4 ,fathers and mothers have been made immortal by such sons4 ,and yet these sons demon- strated the errors of their parents4 ,a good father wishes to be excelled by his children4 ,,sixth ,,interview4 ,it is a contradiction in terms and ideas to call anything a revelation that comes to us at second- hand1 either verbally or in writing4 ,revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication-- after this1 it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him2 and though he may find himself obliged to believe it1 it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner2 for it was not a revelation made to me1 and ,i have only his word for it that it was made to him4--,thomas ,paine4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the argu- ments presented by ,mr4 ,talmage in favor of the inspiration of the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,mr4 ,talmage takes the ground that there are more copies of the ,bible than of any other book1 and that consequently it must be in- spired4 ,it seems to me that this kind of reasoning proves entirely too much4 ,if the ,bible is the inspired word of ,god1 it was certainly just as true when there was only one copy1 as it is to-day2 and the facts con- tained in it were just as true before they were #bif written1 as afterwards4 ,we all know that it is a fact in human nature1 that a man can tell a falsehood so often that he finally believes it himself2 but ,i never suspected1 until now1 that a mistake could be printed enough times to make it true4 ,there may have been a time1 and probably there was1 when there were more copies of the ,koran than of the ,bible4 ,when most ,christians were ut- terly ignorant1 thousands of ,moors were educated2 and it is well known that the arts and sciences flourished in ,mohammedan countries in a far greater degree than in ,christian4 ,now1 at that time1 it may be that there were more copies of the ,koran than of the ,bible4 ,if some enterprising ,mohammedan had only seen the force of such a fact1 he might have established the inspiration of the ,koran beyond a doubt2 or1 if it had been found by actual count that the ,koran was a little behind1 a few years of in- dustry spent in the multiplication of copies1 might have furnished the evidence of its inspiration4 ,is it not simply amazing that a doctor of divinity1 a ,presbyterian clergyman1 in this day and age1 should seriously rely upon the number of copies of the ,bible to substantiate the inspiration of that book8 ,is it possible to conceive of anything more fig-leaflessly #big absurd8 ,if there is anything at all in this argument1 it is1 that all books are true in proportion to the number of copies that exist4 ,of course1 the same rule will work with newspapers2 so that the news- paper having the largest circulation can consistently claim infallibility4 ,suppose that an exceedingly absurd statement should appear in ,the ,new ,york ,herald1 and some one should denounce it as utterly without any foundation in fact or probability2 what would ,mr4 ,talmage think if the editor of the ,herald1 as an evidence of the truth of the statement1 should rely on the fact that his paper had the largest circulation of any in the city8 ,one would think that the whole church had acted upon the theory that a falsehood re- peated often enough was as good as the truth4 ,another evidence brought forward by the reverend gentleman to prove the inspiration of the ,scriptures1 is the assertion that if ,congress should undertake to pass a law to take the ,bible from the people1 thirty1 millions would rise in defence of that book4 ,this argument also seems to me to prove too much1 and as a consequence1 to prove nothing4 ,if ,con- gress should pass a law prohibiting the reading of ,shakespeare1 every ,american would rise in defence of his right to read the works of the greatest man #bih this world has known4 ,still1 that would not even tend to show that ,shakespeare was inspired4 ,the fact is1 the ,american people would not allow ,con- gress to pass a law preventing them from reading any good book4 ,such action would not prove the book to be inspired2 it would prove that the ,american people believe in liberty4 ,there are millions of people in ,turkey who would peril their lives in defence of the ,koran4 ,a fact like this does not prove the truth of the ,koran2 it simply proves what ,mohammedans think of that book1 and what they are willing to do for its preservation4 ,it can not be too often repeated1 that martyrdom does not prove the truth of the thing for which the martyr dies2 it only proves the sincerity of the martyr and the cruelty of his murderers4 ,no matter how many people regard the ,bible as inspired1--that fact furnishes no evidence that it is inspired4 ,just as many people have regarded other books as inspired2 just as many millions have been deluded about the inspiration of books ages and ages before ,christianity was born4 ,the simple belief of one man1 or of millions of men1 is no evidence to another4 ,evidence must be based1 not upon the belief of other people1 but upon facts4 ,a believer may state the facts upon which his belief #bii is founded1 and the person to whom he states them gives them the weight that according to the con- struction and constitution of his mind he must4 ,but simple1 bare belief is not testimony4 ,we should build upon facts1 not upon beliefs of others1 nor upon the shifting sands of public opinion4 ,so much for this argument4 ,the next point made by the reverend gentleman is1 that an infidel cannot be elected to any office in the ,united ,states1 in any county1 precinct1 or ward4 ,for the sake of the argument1 let us admit that this is true4 ,what does it prove8 ,there was a time when no ,protestant could have been elected to any office4 ,what did that prove8 ,there was a time when no ,presbyterian could have been chosen to fill any public station4 ,what did that prove8 ,the same may be said of the members of each religious denomination4 ,what does that prove8 ,mr4 ,talmage says that ,christianity must be true1 because an infidel cannot be elected to office4 ,now1 suppose that enough infidels should happen to settle in one precinct to elect one of their own number to office2 would that prove that ,christianity was not true in that precinct8 ,there was a time when no man could have been elected to any office1 who in- #cjj sisted on the rotundity of the earth2 what did that prove8 ,there was a time when no man who denied the existence of witches1 wizards1 spooks and devils1 could hold any position of honor2 what did that prove8 ,there was a time when an abolitionist could not be elected to office in any ,state in this ,union2 what did that prove8 ,there was a time when they were not allowed to express their honest thoughts2 what does that prove8 ,there was a time when a ,quaker could not have been elected to any office2 there was a time in the history of this country when but few of them were allowed to live2 what does that prove8 ,is it necessary1 in order to ascertain the truth of ,christianity1 to look over the election re- turns8 ,is inspiration a question to be settled by the ballot8 ,i admit that it was once1 in the first place1 settled that way4 ,i admit that books were voted in and voted out1 and that the ,bible was finally formed in accordance with a vote2 but does ,mr4 ,talmage insist that the question is not still open8 ,does he not know1 that a fact cannot by any possi- bility be affected by opinion8 ,we make laws for the whole people1 by the whole people4 ,we agree that a majority shall rule1 but nobody ever pretended that a question of taste could be settled by an appeal #cja to majorities1 or that a question of logic could be affected by numbers4 ,in the world of thought1 each man is an absolute monarch1 each brain is a king- dom1 that cannot be invaded even by the tyranny of majorities4 ,no man can avoid the intellectual responsibility of deciding for himself4 ,suppose that the ,christian religion had been put to vote in ,jerusalem8 ,suppose that the doctrine of the fall had been settled in ,athens1 by an appeal to the people1 would ,mr4 ,talmage have been willing to abide by their decision8 ,if he settles the inspira- tion of the ,bible by a popular vote1 he must settle the meaning of the ,bible by the same means4 ,there are more ,methodists than ,presbyterians--why does the gentleman remain a ,presbyterian8 ,there are more ,buddhists than ,christians--why does he vote against majorities8 ,he will remember that ,christianity was once settled by a popular vote--that the divinity of ,christ was submitted to the people1 and the people said3 ,crucify him6 ,the next1 and about the strongest1 argument ,mr4 ,talmage makes is1 that ,i am an infidel because ,i was defeated for ,governor of ,illinois4 ,when put in plain ,english1 his statement is this3 #cjb that ,i was defeated because ,i was an infidel1 and that ,i am an infidel because ,i was defeated4 ,this1 ,i be- lieve1 is called reasoning in a circle4 ,the truth is1 that a good many people did object to me because ,i was an infidel1 and the probability is1 that if ,i had denied being an infidel1 ,i might have obtained an office4 ,the wonderful part is1 that any ,christian should deride me because ,i preferred honor to po- litical success4 ,he who dishonors himself for the sake of being honored by others1 will find that two mistakes have been made--one by himself1 and the other1 by the people4 ,i presume that ,mr4,talmage really thinks that ,i was extremely foolish to avow my real opinions4 ,after all1 men are apt to judge others somewhat by them- selves4 ,according to him1 ,i made the mistake of preserving my manhood and losing an office4 ,now1 if ,i had in fact been an infidel1 and had denied it1 for the sake of position1 then ,i admit that every ,christian might have pointed at me the finger of contempt4 ,but ,i was an infidel1 and admitted it4 ,surely1 ,i should not be held in contempt by ,christians for having made the admission4 ,i was not a believer in the ,bible1 and ,i said so4 ,i was not a ,christian1 and ,i said so4 ,i was not willing to receive the support of any #cjc man under a false impression4 ,i thought it better to be honestly beaten1 than to dishonestly succeed4 ,according to the ethics of ,mr4 ,talmage ,i made a mistake1 and this mistake is brought forward as another evidence of the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,if ,i had only been elected ,governor of ,illinois1--that is to say1 if ,i had been a successful hypocrite1 ,i might now be basking in the sunshine of this gentleman's respect4 ,i preferred to tell the truth--to be an honest man1--and ,i have never regretted the course ,i pursued4 ,there are many men now in office who1 had they pursued a nobler course1 would be private citizens4 ,nominally1 they are ,christians2 actually1 they are nothing2 and this is the combination that generally insures political success4 ,mr4 ,talmage is exceedingly proud of the fact that ,christians will not vote for infidels4 ,in other words1 he does not believe that in our ,government the church has been absolutely divorced from the state4 ,he believes that it is still the ,christian's duty to make the religious test4 ,probably he wishes to get his ,god into the ,constitution4 ,my position is this3 ,religion is an individual matter--a something for each individual to settle for himself1 and with which #cjd no other human being has any concern1 provided the religion of each human being allows liberty to every other4 ,when called upon to vote for men to fill the offices of this country1 ,i do not inquire as to the re- ligion of the candidates4 ,it is none of my business4 ,i ask the questions asked by ,jefferson3 ,is he honest2 is he capable8 ,it makes no difference to me1 if he is willing that others should be free1 what creed he may profess4 ,the moment ,i inquire into his religious belief1 ,i found a little inquisition of my own2 ,i repeat1 in a small way1 the errors of the past1 and reproduce1 in so far as ,i am capable1 the infamy of the ignorant orthodox years4 ,mr4 ,talmage will accept my thanks for his frankness4 ,i now know what controls a ,presbyterian when he casts his vote4 ,he cares nothing for the capacity1 nothing for the fitness1 of the candidate to discharge the duties of the office to which he aspires2 he simply asks3 ,is he a ,presbyterian1 is he a ,protestant1 does he believe our creed8 and then1 no matter how ignorant he may be1 how utterly unfit1 he receives the ,presbyterian vote4 ,according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 he would vote for a ,catholic who1 if he had the power1 would destroy all liberty of conscience1 rather than vote for an infidel who1 had he the power1 would #cje destroy all the religious tyranny of the world1 and allow every human being to think for himself1 and to worship ,god1 or not1 as and how he pleased4 ,mr4 ,talmage makes the serious mistake of placing the ,bible above the laws and ,constitution of his country4 ,he places ,jehovah above humanity4 ,such men are not entirely safe citizens of any republic4 ,and yet1 ,i am in favor of giving to such men all the liberty ,i ask for myself1 trusting to education and the spirit of progress to overcome any injury they may do1 or seek to do4 ,when this country was founded1 when the ,con- stitution was adopted1 the churches agreed to let the ,state alone4 ,they agreed that all citizens should have equal civil rights4 ,nothing could be more dangerous to the existence of this ,republic than to introduce religion into politics4 ,the ,american theory is1 that governments are founded1 not by gods1 but by men1 and that the right to govern does not come from ,god1 but from the consent of the governed4 ,our fathers concluded that the people were sufficiently intelligent to take care of themselves--to make good laws and to execute them4 ,prior to that time1 all authority was supposed to come from the clouds4 ,kings were set upon thrones by ,god1 and it was the #cjf business of the people simply to submit4 ,in all really civilized countries1 that doctrine has been abandoned4 ,the source of political power is here1 not in heaven4 ,we are willing that those in heaven should control affairs there2 we are willing that the angels should have a government to suit themselves2 but while we live here1 and while our interests are upon this earth1 we propose to make and execute our own laws4 ,if the doctrine of ,mr4 ,talmage is the true doctrine1 if no man should be voted for unless he is a ,christian1 then no man should vote unless he is a ,christian4 ,it will not do to say that sinners may vote1 that an infidel may be the repository of political power1 but must not be voted for4 ,a decent ,christian who is not willing that an infidel should be elected to an office1 would not be willing to be elected to an office by infidel votes4 ,if infidels are too bad to be voted for1 they are certainly not good enough to vote1 and no ,christian should be willing to represent such an infamous constituency4 ,if the political theory of ,mr4 ,talmage is carried out1 of course the question will arise in a little while1 ,what is a ,christian8 ,it will then be necessary to write a creed to be subscribed by every person before he is fit to vote or to be voted for4 ,this of course #cjg must be done by the ,state1 and must be settled1 under our form of government1 by a majority vote4 ,is ,mr4 ,talmage willing that the question1 ,what is ,christianity8 should be so settled8 ,will he pledge himself in advance to subscribe to such a creed8 ,of course he will not4 ,he will insist that he has the right to read the ,bible for himself1 and that he must be bound by his own conscience4 ,in this he would be right4 ,if he has the right to read the ,bible for himself1 so have ,i4 ,if he is to be bound by his con- science1 so am ,i4 ,if he honestly believes the ,bible to be true1 he must say so1 in order to preserve his man- hood2 and if ,i honestly believe it to be uninspired1-- filled with mistakes1--,i must say so1 or lose my man- hood4 ,how infamous ,i would be should ,i endeavor to deprive him of his vote1 or of his right to be voted for1 because he had been true to his conscience6 ,and how infamous he is to try to deprive me of the right to vote1 or to be voted for1 because ,i am true to my conscience6 ,when we were engaged in civil war1 did ,mr4 ,tal- mage object to any man's enlisting in the ranks who was not a ,christian8 ,was he willing1 at that time1 that sinners should vote to keep our flag in heaven8 ,was he willing that the unconverted should cover #cjh the fields of victory with their corpses1 that this nation might not die8 ,at the same time1 ,mr4 ,talmage knew that every unconverted soldier killed1 went down to eternal fire4 ,does ,mr4 ,talmage believe that it is the duty of a man to fight for a government in which he has no rights8 ,is the man who shoulders his musket in the defence of human freedom good enough to cast a ballot8 ,there is in the heart of this priest the safne hatred of real liberty that drew the sword of persecution1 that built dungeons1 that forged chains and made instruments of torture4 ,nobody1 with the exception of priests1 would be willing to trust the liberties of this country in the hands of any church4 ,in order to show the political estimation in which the clergy are held1 in order to show the confidence the people at large have in the sincerity and wisdom of the clergy1 it is sufficient to state1 that no priest1 no bishop1 could by any possi- bility be elected ,president of the ,united ,states4 ,no party could carry that load4 ,a fear would fall upon the mind and heart of every honest man that this country was about to drift back to the ,middle ,ages1 and that the old battles were to be refought4 ,if the bishop running for ,president was of the ,methodist ,church1 every other church would oppose him4 ,if #cji he was a ,catholic1 the ,protestants would as a body combine against him4 ,why8 ,the churches have no confidence in each other4 ,why8 ,because they are acquainted with each other4 ,as a matter of fact1 the infidel has a thousand times more reason to vote against the ,christian1 than the ,christian has to vote against the infidel4 ,the ,christian believes in a book superior to the ,constitution--superior to all ,constitutions and all laws4 ,the infidel believes that the ,constitution and laws are superior to any book4 ,he is not controlled by any power beyond the seas or above the clouds4 ,he does not receive his orders from ,rome1 or ,sinai4 ,he receives them from his fellow-citizens1 legally and constitutionally expressed4 ,the ,christian believes in a power greater than man1 to which1 upon the peril of eternal pain1 he must bow4 ,his allegiance1 to say the best of it1 is divided4 ,the ,christian puts the for- tune of his own soul over and above the temporal welfare of the entire world2 the infidel puts the good of mankind here and now1 beyond and over all4 ,there was a time in ,new ,england when only church members were allowed to vote1 and it may be instructive to state the fact that during that time ,quakers were hanged1 women were stripped1 tied to #caj carts1 and whipped from town to town1 and their babes sold into slavery1 or exchanged for rum4 ,now in that same country1 thousands and thousands of infidels vote1 and yet the laws are nearer just1 women are not whipped and children are not sold4 ,if all the convicts in all the penitentiaries of the ,united ,states could be transported to some island in the sea1 and there allowed to make a government for themselves1 they would pass better laws than ,john ,calvin did in ,geneva4 ,they would have clearer and better views of the rights of men1 than unconvicted ,christians used to have4 ,i do not say that these convicts are better people1 but ,i do say that1 in my judgment1 they would make better laws4 ,they cer- tainly could not make worse4 ,if these convicts were taken from the prisons of the ,united ,states1 they would not dream of uniting church and state4 ,they would have no religious test4 ,they would allow every man to vote and to be voted for1 no matter what his religious views might be4 ,they would not dream of whipping ,quakers1 of burning ,unitarians1 of imprisoning or burning ,uni- versalists or infidels4 ,they would allow all the people to guess for themselves4 ,some of these convicts1 of course1 would believe in the old ideas1 and would insist upon the suppression of free thought4 ,those coming from ,delaware would probably repeat with great gusto the opinions of ,justice ,comegys1 and insist that the whipping-post was the handmaid of ,christianity4 ,it would be hard to conceive of a much worse government than that founded by the ,puritans4 ,they took the ,bible for the foundation of their political structure4 ,they copied the laws given to ,moses from ,sinai1 and the result was one of the worst governments that ever disgraced this world4 ,they believed the ,old ,testament to be inspired4 ,they believed that ,jehovah made laws for all people and for all time4 ,they had not learned the hypoc- risy that believes and avoids4 ,they did not say3 ,this law was once just1 but is now unjust2 it was once good1 but now it is infamous2 it was given by ,god once1 but now it can only be obeyed by the devil4 ,they had not reached the height of biblical exegesis on which we find the modern theologian perched1 and who tells us that ,jehovah has reformed4 ,the ,puritans were consistent4 ,they did what people must do who honestly believe in the inspiration of the ,old ,testament4 ,if ,god gave laws from ,sinai what right have we to repeal them8 #cab ,as people have gained confidence in each other1 they have lost confidence in the sacred ,scriptures4 ,we know now that the ,bible can not be used as the foundation of government4 ,it is capable of too many meanings4 ,nobody can find out exactly what it upholds1 what it permits1 what it denounces1 what it denies4 ,these things depend upon what part you read4 ,if it is all true1 it upholds everything bad and denounces everything good1 and it also denounces the bad and upholds the good4 ,then there are passages where the good is denounced and the bad commanded2 so that any one can go to the ,bible and find some text1 some passage1 to uphold anything he may desire4 ,if he wishes to enslave his fellow- men1 he will find hundreds of passages in his favor4 ,if he wishes to be a polygamist1 he can find his authority there4 ,if he wishes to make war1 to exter- minate his neighbors1 there his warrant can be found4 ,if1 on the other hand1 he is oppressed himself1 and wishes to make war upon his king1 he can find a battle-cry4 ,and if the king wishes to put him down1 he can find text for text on the other side4 ,so1 too1 upon all questions of reform4 ,the teetotaler goes there to get his verse1 and the moderate drinker finds within the sacred lids his best excuse4 #cac ,most intelligent people are now convinced that the bible is not a guide2 that in reading it you must exercise your reason2 that you can neither safely reject nor accept all2 that he who takes one passage for a staff1 trips upon another2 that while one text is a light1 another blows it out2 that it is such a ming- ling of rocks and quicksands1 such a labyrinth of clews and snares--so few flowers among so many nettles and thorns1 that it misleads rather than di- rects1 and taken altogether1 is a hindrance and not a help4 ,another important point made by ,mr4 ,talmage is1 that if the ,bible is thrown away1 we will have nothing left to swear witnesses on1 and that consequently the administration of justice will become impossible4 ,there was a time when the ,bible did not exist1 and if ,mr4 ,talmage is correct1 of course justice was im- possible then1 and truth must have been a stranger to human lips4 ,how can we depend upon the testi- mony of those who wrote the ,bible1 as there was no ,bible in existence while they were writing1 and con- sequently there was no way to take their testimony1 and we have no account of their having been sworn on the ,bible after they got it finished4 ,it is extremely sad to think that all the nations of antiquity were left #cad entirely without the means of eliciting truth4 ,no wonder that ,justice was painted blindfolded4 ,what perfect fetichism it is1 to imagine that a man will tell the truth simply because he has kissed an old piece of sheepskin stained with the saliva of all classes4 ,a farce of this kind adds nothing to the testimony of an honest man2 it simply allows a rogue to give weight to his false testimony4 ,this is really the only result that can be accomplished by kissing the ,bible4 ,a desperate villain1 for the purpose of getting revenge1 or making money1 will gladly go through the ceremony1 and ignorant juries and su- perstitious judges will be imposed upon4 ,the whole system of oaths is false1 and does harm instead of good4 ,let every man walk into court and tell his story1 and let the truth of the story be judged by its reasonableness1 taking into consideration the charac- ter of the witness1 the interest he has1 and the posi- tion he occupies in the controversy1 and then let it be the business of the jury to ascertain the real truth --to throw away the unreasonable and the impossi- ble1 and make up their verdict only upon what they believe to be reasonable and true4 ,an honest man does not need the oath1 and a rascal uses it simply to accomplish his purpose4 ,if the history of courts #cae proved that every man1 after kissing the ,bible1 told the truth1 and that those who failed to kiss it some- times lied1 ,i should be in favor of swearing all people on the ,bible2 but the experience of every lawyer is1 that kissing the ,bible is not always the preface of a true story4 ,it is often the ceremonial embroidery of a falsehood4 ,if there is an infinite ,god who attends to the affairs of men1 it seems to me almost a sacrilege to publicly appeal to him in every petty trial4 ,if one will go into any court1 and notice the manner in which oaths are administered1--the utter lack of solemnity--the matter-of-course air with which the whole thing is done1 he will be convinced that it is a form of no importance4 ,mr4 ,talmage would probably agree with the judge of whom the following story is told3 ,a witness was being sworn4 ,the judge noticed that he was not holding up his hand4 ,he said to the clerk3 ,let the witness hold up his right hand4 ,his right arm was shot off1 replied the clerk4 ,let him hold up his left1 then4 ,that was shot off1 too1 your honor4 ,well1 then1 let him raise one foot2 no man can be sworn in this court without holding something up4 ,my own opinion is1 that if every copy of the ,bible in the world were destroyed1 there would be some way to ascertain the truth in judicial proceedings2 and any other book would do just as well to swear witnesses upon1 or a block in the shape of a book covered with some kind of calfskin could do equally well1 or just the calfskin would do4 ,nothing is more laughable than the performance of this ceremony1 and ,i have never seen in court one calf kissing the skin of another1 that ,i did not feel humiliated that such things were done in the name of ,justice4 ,mr4 ,talmage has still another argument in favor of the preservation of the ,bible4 ,he wants to know what book could take its place on the centre- table4 ,i admit that there is much force in this4 ,suppose we all admitted the ,bible to be an uninspired book1 it could still be kept on the centre-table4 ,it would be just as true then as it is now4 ,inspiration can not add anything to a fact2 neither can inspiration make the immoral moral1 the unjust just1 or the cruel merci- ful4 ,if it is a fact that ,god established human slavery1 that does not prove slavery to be right2 it simply shows that ,god was wrong4 ,if ,i have the right to use my reason in determining whether the ,bible is #cag inspired or not1 and if in accordance with my reason ,i conclude that it is inspired1 ,i have still the right to use my reason in determining whether the command- ments of ,god are good or bad4 ,now1 suppose we take from the ,bible every word upholding slavery1 every passage in favor of polygamy1 every verse commanding soldiers to kill women and children1 it would be just as fit for the centre-table as now4 ,sup- pose every impure word was taken from it2 suppose that the history of ,tamar was left out1 the biography of ,lot1 and all other barbarous accounts of a barbarous people1 it would look just as well upon the centre- table as now4 ,suppose that we should become convinced that the writers of the ,new ,testament were mistaken as to the eternity of punishment1 or that all the passages now relied upon to prove the existence of perdition were shown to be interpolations1 and were thereupon expunged1 would not the book be dearer still to every human being with a heart8 ,i would like to see every good passage in the ,bible preserved4 ,i would like to see1 with all these passages from the ,bible1 the loftiest sentiments from all other books that have ever been uttered by men in all ages and of all races1 bound in one volume1 and to see that #cah volume1 filled with the greatest1 the purest and the best1 become the household book4 ,the average ,bible1 on the average centre-table1 is about as much used as though it were a solid block4 ,it is scarcely ever opened1 and people who see its covers every day are unfamiliar with its every page4 ,i admit that some things have happened some- what hard to explain1 and tending to show that the ,bible is no ordinary book4 ,i heard a story1 not long ago1 bearing upon this very subject4 ,a man was a member of the church1 but after a time1 having had bad luck in business affairs1 became somewhat discouraged4 ,not feeling able to con- tribute his share to the support of the church1 he ceased going to meeting1 and finally became an average sinner4 ,his bad luck pursued him until he found himself and his family without even a crust to eat4 ,at this point1 his wife told him that she be- lieved they were suffering from a visitation of ,god1 and begged him to restore family worship1 and see if ,god would not do something for them4 ,feeling that he could not possibly make matters worse1 he took the ,bible from its resting place on a shelf where it had quietly slumbered and collected the dust of many months1 and gathered his family about him4 #cai ,he opened the sacred volume1 and to his utter as- tonishment1 there1 between the divine leaves1 was a ten-dollar bill4 ,he immediately dropped on his knees4 ,his wife dropped on hers1 and the children on theirs1 and with streaming eyes they returned thanks to ,god4 ,he rushed to the butcher's and bought some steak1 to the baker's and bought some bread1 to the grocer's and got some eggs and butter and tea1 and joyfully hastened home4 ,the supper was cooked1 it was on the table1 grace was said1 and every face was radiant with joy4 ,just at that happy moment a knock was heard1 the door was opened1 and a police- man entered and arrested the father for passing counterfeit money4 ,mr4 ,talmage is also convinced that the ,bible is inspired and should be preserved because there is no other book that a mother could give her son as he leaves the old home to make his way in the world4 ,thousands and thousands of mothers have pre- sented their sons with ,bibles without knowing really what the book contains4 ,they simply followed the custom1 and the sons as a rule honored the ,bible1 not because they knew anything of it1 but because it was a gift from mother4 ,but surely1 if all the passages upholding polygamy were out1 the mother would give #cbj the book to her son just as readily1 and he would re- ceive it just as joyfully4 ,if there were not one word in it tending to degrade the mother1 the gift would cer- tainly be as appropriate4 ,the fact that mothers have presented ,bibles to their sons does not prove that the book is inspired4 ,the most that can be proved by this fact is that the mothers believed it to be inspired4 ,it does not even tend to show what the book is1 neither does it tend to establish the truth of one miracle recorded upon its pages4 ,we cannot believe that fire refused to burn1 simply because the state- ment happens to be in a book presented to a son by his mother1 and if all the mothers of the entire world should give ,bibles to all their children1 this would not prove that it was once right to murder mothers1 or to enslave mothers1 or to sell their babes4 ,the inspiration of the ,bible is not a question of natural affection4 ,it can not be decided by the love a mother bears her son4 ,it is a question of fact1 to be substantiated like other facts4 ,if the ,turkish mother should give a copy of the ,koran to her son1 ,i would still have my doubts about the in- spiration of that book2 and if some ,turkish soldier saved his life by having in his pocket a copy of the ,koran that accidentally stopped a bullet just #cba opposite his heart1 ,i should still deny that ,mohammed was a prophet of ,god4 ,nothing can be more childish than to ascribe mysterious powers to inanimate objects4 ,to imagine that old rags made into pulp1 manufactured into paper1 covered with words1 and bound with the skin of a calf or a sheep1 can have any virtues when thus put together that did not belong to the articles out of which the book was constructed1 is of course infinitely absurd4 ,in the days of slavery1 negroes used to buy dried roots of other negroes1 and put these roots in their pockets1 so that a whipping would not give them pain4 ,kings have bought diamonds to give them luck4 ,crosses and scapularies are still worn for the purpose of affecting the inevitable march of events4 ,people still imagine that a verse in the ,bible can step in between a cause and its effect2 really believe that an amulet1 a charm1 the bone of some saint1 a piece of a cross1 a little image of the ,virgin1 a picture of a priest1 will affect the weather1 will delay frost1 will prevent disease1 will insure safety at sea1 and in some cases prevent hanging4 ,the banditti of ,italy have great confidence in these things1 and whenever they start upon an expedition of theft and plunder1 they #cbb take images and pictures of saints with them1 such as have been blest by a priest or pope4 ,they pray sincerely to the ,virgin1 to give them luck1 and see not the slightest inconsistency in appealing to all the saints in the calendar to assist them in robbing honest people4 ,edmund ,about tells a story that illustrates the belief of the modern ,italian4 ,a young man was gambling4 ,fortune was against him4 ,in the room was a little picture representing the ,virgin and her child4 ,before this picture he crossed himself1 and asked the assist- ance of the child4 ,again he put down his money and again lost4 ,returning to the picture1 he told the child that he had lost all but one piece1 that he was about to hazard that1 and made a very urgent request that he would favor him with divine assistance4 ,he put down the last piece4 ,he lost4 ,going to the picture and shaking his fist at the child1 he cried out3 ,miserable bambino1 ,i am glad they crucified you6 ,the confidence that one has in an image1 in a relic1 in a book1 comes from the same source1--fetichism4 ,to ascribe supernatural virtues to the skin of a snake1 to a picture1 or to a bound volume1 is intellectually the same4 ,mr4 ,talmage has still another argument in favor #cbc of the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,he takes the ground that the ,bible must be inspired1 because so many people believe it4 ,mr4 ,talmage should remember that a scientific fact does not depend upon the vote of numbers2-- it depends simply upon demonstration2 it depends upon intelligence and investigation1 not upon an ignorant multitude2 it appeals to the highest1 in- stead of to the lowest4 ,nothing can be settled by popular prejudice4 ,according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 there are about three hundred million ,christians in the world4 ,is this true8 ,in all countries claiming to be ,christian--including all of civilized ,europe1 ,russia in ,asia1 and every country on the ,western hemisphere1 we have nearly four hundred millions of people4 ,mr4 ,talmage claims that three hundred millions are ,christians4 ,i sup- pose he means by this1 that if all should perish to- night1 about three hundred millions would wake up in heaven--having lived and died good and consist- ent ,christians4 ,there are in ,russia about eighty millions of people --how many ,christians8 ,i admit that they have re- cently given more evidence of orthodox ,christianity than formerly4 ,they have been murdering old men2 #cbd they have thrust daggers into the breasts of women2 they have violated maidens--because they were ,jews4 ,thousands and thousands are sent each year to the mines of ,siberia1 by the ,christian government of ,russia4 ,girls eighteen years of age1 for having ex- pressed a word in favor of human liberty1 are to-day working like beasts of burden1 with chains upon their limbs and with the marks of whips upon their backs4 ,russia1 of course1 is considered by ,mr4 ,talmage as a ,christian country--a country utterly destitute of liberty--without freedom of the press1 without freedom of speech1 where every mouth is locked and every tongue a prisoner--a country filled with victims1 soldiers1 spies1 thieves and executioners4 ,what would ,russia be1 in the opinion of ,mr4 ,tal- mage1 but for ,christianity8 ,how could it be worse1 when assassins are among the best people in it8 ,the truth is1 that the people in ,russia1 to-day1 who are in favor of human liberty1 are not ,christians4 ,the men willing to sacrifice their lives for the good of others1 are not believers in the ,christian religion4 ,the men who wish to break chains are infidels2 the men who make chains are ,christians4 ,every good and sincere ,catholic of the ,greek ,church is a bad citizen1 an enemy of progress1 a foe of #cbe human liberty4 ,yet ,mr4 ,talmage regards ,russia as a ,christian country4 ,the sixteen millions of people in ,spain are claimed as ,christians4 ,spain1 that for centuries was the as- sassin of human rights2 ,spain1 that endeavored to spread ,christianity by flame and fagot2 ,spain1 the soil where the ,inquisition flourished1 where bigotry grew1 and where cruelty was worship1--where murder was prayer4 ,i admit that ,spain is a ,chris- tian nation4 ,i admit that infidelity has gained no foothold beyond the ,pyrenees4 ,the ,spaniards are orthodox4 ,they believe in the inspiration of the ,old and ,new ,testaments4 ,they have no doubts about miracles--no doubts about heaven1 no doubts about hell4 ,i admit that the priests1 the highway- men1 the bishops and thieves1 are equally true be- lievers4 ,the man who takes your purse on the highway1 and the priest who forgives the robber1 are alike orthodox4 ,it gives me pleasure1 however1 to say that even in ,spain there is a dawn4 ,some great men1 some men of genius1 are protesting against the tyranny of ,cath- olicism4 ,some men have lost confidence in the cathedral1 and are beginningto ask the ,state to erect the schoolhouse4 ,they are beginning to suspect #cbf that priests are for the most part impostors and plunderers4 ,according to ,mr4 ,talmage1 the twenty-eight mil- lions in ,italy are ,christians4 ,there the ,christian ,church was early established1 and the popes are to- day the successors of ,st4 ,peter4 ,for hundreds and hundreds of years1 ,italy was the beggar of the world1 and to her1 from every land1 flowed streams of gold and silver4 ,the country was covered with convents1 and monasteries1 and churches1 and cathedrals filled with monks and nuns4 ,its roads were crowded with pilgrims1 and its dust was on the feet of the world4 ,what has ,christianity done for ,italy--,italy1 its soil a blessing1 its sky a smile--,italy1 with memories great enough to kindle the fires of enthusiasm in any human breast8 ,had it not been for a few ,freethinkers1 for a few infidels1 for such men as ,garibaldi and ,mazzini1 the heaven of ,italy would still have been without a star4 ,i admit that ,italy1 with its popes and bandits1 with its superstition and ignorance1 with its sanctified beggars1 is a ,christian nation2 but in a little while1-- in a few days1--when according to the prophecy of ,garibaldi priests1 with spades in their hands1 will dig ditches to drain the ,pontine marshes2 in a little #cbg while1 when the pope leaves the ,vatican1 and seeks the protection of a nation he has denounced1--asking alms of intended victims2 when the nuns shall marry1 and the monasteries shall become factories1 and the whirl of wheels shall take the place of drowsy prayers --then1 and not until then1 will ,italy be1--not a ,christian nation1 but great1 prosperous1 and free4 ,in ,italy1 ,giordano ,bruno was burned4 ,some day1 his monument will rise above the cross of ,rome4 ,we have in our day one example1--and so far as ,i know1 history records no other1--of the resurrection of a nation4 ,italy has been called from the grave of superstition4 ,she is the first fruits of them that slept4 ,i admit with ,mr4 ,talmage that ,portugal is a ,chris- tian country--that she engaged for hundreds of years in the slave trade1 and that she justified the infamous traffic by passages in the ,old ,testament4 ,i admit1 also1 that she persecuted the ,jews in accordance with the same divine volume4 ,i admit that all the crime1 ignorance1 destitution1 and superstition in that country were produced by the ,catholic ,church4 ,i also admit that ,portugal would be better if it were ,protestant4 ,every ,catholic is in favor of education enough to #cbh change a barbarian into a ,catholic2 every ,protestant is in favor of education enough to change a ,catholic into a ,protestant2 but ,protestants and ,catholics alike are opposed to education that will lead to any real philosophy and science4 ,i admit that ,portugal is what it is1 on account of the preaching of the gospel4 ,i admit that ,portugal can point with pride to the triumphs of what she calls civilization within her borders1 and truthfully ascribe the glory to the church4 ,but in a litde while1 when more railroads are built1 when telegraphs connect her people with the civilized world1 a spirit of doubt1 of investigation1 will manifest itself in ,portugal4 ,when the people stop counting beads1 and go to the study of mathematics2 when they think more of plows than of prayers for agricultural purposes2 when they find that one fact gives more light to the mind than a thousand tapers1 and that nothing can by any possibility be more useless than a priest1--then ,por- tugal will begin to cease to be what is called a ,christian nation4 ,i admit that ,austria1 with her thirty-seven millions1 is a ,christian nation--including her ,croats1 ,hungar- ians1 ,servians1 and ,gypsies4 ,austria was one of the assassins of ,poland4 ,when we remember that ,john #cbi ,sobieski drove the ,mohammedans from the gates of ,vienna1 and rescued from the hand of the infidel the beleagured city1 the propriety of calling ,austria a ,christian nation becomes still more apparent4 ,if one wishes to know exactly how ,christian ,austria is1 let him read the history of ,hungary1 let him read the speeches of ,kossuth4 ,there is one good thing about ,austria3 slowly but surely she is undermining the church by education4 ,education is the enemy of superstition4 ,universal education does away with the classes born of the tyranny of ecclesiasticism-- classes founded upon cunning1 greed1 and brute strength4 ,education also tends to do away with intellectual cowardice4 ,the educated man is his own priest1 his own pope1 his own church4 ,when cunning collects tolls from fear1 the church prospers4 ,germany is another ,christian nation4 ,bismarck is celebrated for his ,christian virtues4 ,only a little while ago1 ,bismarck1 when a bill was under consideration for ameliorating the condition of the ,jews1 stated publicly that ,germany was a ,christian nation1 that her business was to extend and protect the religion of ,jesus ,christ1 and that being a ,christian nation1 no laws should be passed #ccj ameliorating the condition of the ,jews4 ,certainly a remark like this could not have been made in any other than a ,christian nation4 ,there is no freedom of the press1 there is no freedom of speech1 in ,ger- many4 ,the ,chancellor has gone so far as to declare that the king is not responsible to the people4 ,ger- many must be a ,christian nation4 ,the king gets his right to govern1 not from his subjects1 but from ,god4 ,he relies upon the ,new ,testament4 ,he is satisfied that the powers that be in ,germany are ordained of ,god4 ,he is satisfied that treason against the ,german throne is treason against ,jehovah4 ,there are millions of ,freethinkers in ,germany4 ,they are not in the majority1 otherwise there would be more liberty in that country4 ,germany is not an infidel nation1 or speech would be free1 and every man would be allowed to express his honest thoughts4 ,wherever ,i see ,liberty in chains1 wherever the expression of opinion is a crime1 ,i know that that country is not infidel2 ,i know that the people are not ruled by reason4 ,i also know that the greatest men of ,germany--her ,freethinkers1 her scientists1 her writers1 her philosophers1 are1 for the most part1 in- fidel4 ,yet ,germany is called a ,christian nation1 and ought to be so called until her citizens are free4 #cca ,france is also claimed as a ,christian country4 ,this is not entirely true4 ,france once was thoroughly ,catholic1 completely ,christian4 ,at the time of the massacre of ,saint ,bartholomew1 the ,french were ,christians4 ,christian ,france made exiles of the ,huguenots4 ,christian ,france for years and years was the property of the ,jesuits4 ,christian ,france was ignorant1 cruel1 orthodox and infamous4 ,when ,france was ,christian1 witnesses were cross-examined with instruments of torture4 ,now ,france is not entirely under ,catholic control1 and yet she is by far the most prosperous nation in ,europe4 ,i saw1 only the other day1 a letter from a ,protestant bishop1 in which he states that there are only about a million ,protestants in ,france1 and only four or five millions of ,catholics1 and admits1 in a very melancholy way1 that thirty-four or thirty-five millions are ,freethinkers4 ,the bishop is probably mistaken in his figures1 but ,france is the best housed1 the best fed1 the best clad country in ,europe4 ,only a little while ago1 ,france was overrun1 trampled into the very earth1 by the victorious hosts of ,ger- many1 and ,france purchased her peace with the savings of centuries4 ,and yet ,france is now rich and prosperous and free1 and ,germany poor1 discontented #ccb and enslaved4 ,hundreds and thousands of ,germans1 unable to find liberty at home1 are coming to the ,united ,states4 ,i admit that ,england is a ,christian country4 ,any doubts upon this point can be dispelled by reading her history--her career in ,india1 what she has done in ,china1 her treatment of ,ireland1 of the ,american ,colonies1 her attitude during our ,civil war2 all these things show conclusively that ,england is a ,christian nation4 ,religion has filled ,great ,britain with war4 ,the history of the ,catholics1 of the ,episcopalians1 of ,cromwell--all the burnings1 the maimings1 the brand- ings1 the imprisonments1 the confiscations1 the civil wars1 the bigotry1 the crime--show conclusively that ,great ,britain has enjoyed to the full the blessings of our most holy religion4 ,of course1 ,mr4 ,talmage claims the ,united ,states as a ,christian country4 ,the truth is1 our country is not as ,christian as it once was4 ,when heretics were hanged in ,new ,england1 when the laws of ,virginia and ,maryland provided that the tongue of any man who denied the doctrine of the ,trinity should be bored with hot iron11 and that for the second offence he should suffer death1 ,i admit that this country was #ccc ,christian4 ,when we engaged in the slave trade1 when our flag protected piracy and murder in every sea1 there is not the slightest doubt that the ,united ,states was a ,christian country4 ,when we believed in slavery1 and when we deliberately stole the labor of four millions of people2 when we sold women and babes1 and when the people of the ,north enacted a law by virtue of which every ,northern man was bound to turn hound and pursue a human being who was endeavoring to regain his liberty1 ,i admit that the ,united ,states was a ,christian nation4 ,i admit that all these things were upheld by the ,bible --that the slave trader was justified by the ,old ,testa- ment1 that the bloodhound was a kind of missionary in disguise1 that the auction block was an altar1 the slave pen a kind of church1 and that the whipping- post was considered almost as sacred as the cross4 ,at that time1 our country was a ,christian nation4 ,i heard ,frederick ,douglass say that he lectured against slavery for twenty years before the doors of a single church were opened to him4 ,in ,new ,england1 hundreds of ministers were driven from their pulpits because they preached against the crime of human slavery4 ,at that time1 this country was a ,christian nation4 #ccd ,only a few years ago1 any man speaking in favor of the rights of man1 endeavoring to break a chain from a human limb1 was in danger of being mobbed by the ,christians of this country4 ,i admit that ,dela- ware is still a ,christian ,state4 ,i heard a story about that ,state the other day4 ,about fifty years ago1 an old ,revolutionary soldier applied for a pension4 ,he was asked his age1 and he replied that he was fifty years old4 ,he was told that if that was his age1 he could not have been in the ,revolutionary ,war1 and consequently was not en- titled to any pension4 ,he insisted1 however1 that he was only fifty years old4 ,again they told him that there must be some mistake4 ,he was so wrinkled1 so bowed1 had so many marks of age1 that he must certainly be more than fifty years old4 ,well1 said the old man1 if ,i must explain1 ,i will3 ,i lived forty years in ,delaware2 but ,i never counted that time1 and ,i hope ,god won't4 ,the fact is1 we have grown less and less ,christian every year from #afbj until now1 and the fact is that we have grown more and more civilized1 more and more charitable1 nearer and nearer just4 ,mr4 ,talmage speaks as though all the people in what he calls the civilized world were ,christians4 ,ad- #cce mitting this to be true1 ,i find that in these countries millions of men are educated1 trained and drilled to kill their fellow ,christians4 ,i find ,europe covered with forts to protect ,christians from ,christians1 and the seas filled with men-of-war for the purpose of ravaging the coasts and destroying the cities of ,chris- tian nations4 ,these countries are filled with prisons1 with workhouses1 with jails and with toiling1 ignorant and suffering millions4 ,i find that ,christians have invented most of the instruments of death1 that ,christians are the greatest soldiers1 fighters1 de- stroyers4 ,i find that every ,christian country is taxed to its utmost to support these soldiers2 that every ,christian nation is now groaning beneath the grievous burden of monstrous debt1 and that nearly all these debts were contracted in waging war4 ,these bonds1 these millions1 these almost incalculable amounts1 were given to pay for shot and shell1 for rifle and torpedo1 for men-of-war1 for forts and arsenals1 and all the devilish enginery of death4 ,i find that each of these nations prays to ,god to assist it as against all others2 and when one nation has overrun1 ravaged and pillaged another1 it immediately returns thanks to the ,almighty1 and the ravaged and pillaged kneel and thank ,god that it is no worse4 #ccf ,mr4 ,talmage is welcome to all the evidence he can find in the history of what he is pleased to call the civilized nations of the world1 tending to show the inspiration of the ,bible4 ,and right here it may be well enough to say again1 that the question of inspiration can not be settled by the votes of the superstitious millions4 ,it can not be affected by numbers4 ,it must be decided by each human being for himself4 ,if every man in this world1 with one exception1 believed the ,bible to be the in- spired word of ,god1 the man who was the exception could not lose his right to think1 to investigate1 and to judge for himself4 ,question4 ,you do not think1 then1 that any of the arguments brought forward by ,mr4 ,talmage for the purpose of establishing the inspiration of the ,bible1 are of any weight whatever8 ,answer4 ,i do not4 ,i do not see how it is possible to make poorer1 weaker or better arguments than he has made4 ,of course1 there can be no evidence of the in- spiration of the ,scriptures4 ,what is inspiration8 ,did ,god use the prophets simply as instruments8 ,did he put his thoughts in their minds1 and use their #ccg hands to make a record8 ,probably few ,christians will agree as to what they mean by inspiration4 ,the general idea is1 that the minds of the writers of the books of the ,bible were controlled by the divine will in such a way that they expressed1 independently of their own opinions1 the thought of ,god4 ,i believe it is admitted that ,god did not choose the exact words1 and is not responsible for the punctuation or syntax4 ,it is hard to give any reason for claiming more for the ,bible than is claimed by those who wrote it4 ,there is no claim of inspiration made by the writer of ,first and ,second ,kings4 ,not one word about the author having been inspired is found in the book of ,job1 or in ,ruth1 or in ,chronicles1 or in the ,psalms1 or ,ecclesiastes1 or in ,solomon's ,song1 and nothing is said about the author of the book of ,esther having been inspired4 ,christians now say that ,matthew1 ,mark1 ,luke and ,john were inspired to write the four gospels1 and yet neither ,mark1 nor ,luke1 nor ,john1 nor ,matthew claims to have been inspired4 ,if they were inspired1 certainly they should have stated that fact4 ,the very first thing stated in each of the gospels should have been a declaration by the writer that he had been inspired1 and that he was about to write the book under the guidance of ,god1 #cch and at the conclusion of each gospel there should have been a solemn statement that the writer had put down nothing of himself1 but had in all things followed the direction and guidance of the divine will4 ,the church now endeavors to establish the inspiration of the ,bible by force1 by social ostracism1 and by attacking the reputation of every man who denies or doubts4 ,in all ,christian countries1 they begin with the child in the cradle4 ,each infant is told by its mother1 by its father1 or by some of its relatives1 that the ,bible is an inspired book4 ,this pretended fact1 by repetition in season and out of season1 is finally burned and branded into the brain to such a degree that the child of average intelligence never outgrows the conviction that the ,bible is1 in some peculiar sense1 an inspired book4 ,the question has to be settled for each generation4 ,the evidence is not sufficient1 and the foundation of ,christianity is perpetually insecure4 ,beneath this great religious fabric there is no rock4 ,for eighteen centu- ries1 hundreds and thousands and millions of people have been endeavoring to establish the fact that the ,scriptures are inspired1 and since the dawn of science1 since the first star appeared in the night of the ,middle ,ages1 until this moment1 the number of #cci people who have doubted the fact of inspiration has steadily increased4 ,these doubts have not been born of ignorance1 they have not been suggested by the unthinking4 ,they have forced themselves upon the thoughtful1 upon the educated1 and now the ver- dict of the intellectual world is1 that the ,bible is not inspired4 ,notwithstanding the fact that the church has taken advantage of infancy1 has endeavored to control education1 has filled all primers and spelling- books and readers and text books with superstition-- feeding all minds with the miraculous and super- natural1 the growth toward a belief in the natural and toward the rejection of the miraculous has been steady and sturdy since the sixteenth century4 ,there has been1 too1 a moral growth1 until many passages in the ,bible have become barbarous1 inhuman and infamous4 ,the ,bible has remained the same1 while the world has changed4 ,in the light of physical and moral discovery1 the inspired volume seems in many respects absurd4 ,if the same progress is made in the next1 as in the last1 century1 it is very easy to predict the place that will then be occupied by the ,bible4 ,by comparing long periods of time1 it is easy to measure the advance of the human race4 ,com- pare the average sermon of to-day with the average #cdj sermon of one hundred years ago4 ,compare what ministers teach to-day with the creeds they profess to believe1 and you will see the immense distance that even the church has traveled in the last century4 ,the ,christians tell us that scientific men have made mistakes1 and that there is very little certainty in the domain of human knowledge4 ,this ,i admit4 ,the man who thought the world was flat1 and who had a way of accounting for the movement of the heavenly bodies1 had what he was pleased to call a philosophy4 ,he was1 in his way1 a geologist and an astronomer4 ,we admit that he was mistaken2 but if we claimed that the first geologist and the first astronomer were inspired1 it would not do for us to admit that any advance had been made1 or that any errors of theirs had been corrected4 ,we do not claim that the first scientists were inspired4 ,we do not claim that the last are inspired4 ,we admit that all scientific men are fallible4 ,we admit that they do not know everything4 ,we insist that they know but little1 and that even in that little which they are sup- posed to know1 there is the possibility of error4 ,the first geologist said3 ,the earth is flat4 ,suppose that the geologists of to-day should insist that that man was inspired1 and then endeavor to show that #cda the word flat1 in the ,hebrew1 did not mean quite flat1 but just a little rounded2 what would we think of their honesty8 ,the first astronomer in- sisted that the sun and moon and stars revolved around this earth--that this little earth was the centre of the entire system4 ,suppose that the astronomers of to-day should insist that that astronomer was in- spired1 and should try to explain1 and say that he simply used the language of the common people1 and when he stated that the sun and moon and stars re- volved around the earth1 he merely meant that they apparently revolved1 and that the earth1 in fact1 turned over1 would we consider them honest men8 ,you might as well say that the first painter was in- spired1 or that the first sculptor had the assistance of ,god1 as to say that the first writer1 or the first book- maker1 was divinely inspired4 ,it is more probable that the modern geologist is inspired than that the an- cient one was1 because the modern geologist is nearer right4 ,it is more probable that ,william ,lloyd ,gar- rison was inspired upon the question of slavery than that ,moses was4 ,it is more probable that the author of the ,declaration of ,independence spoke by divine authority than that the author of the ,pentateuch did4 ,in other words1 if there can be any evidence of #cdb inspiration1 it must lie in the fact of doing or saying the best possible thing that could have been done or said at that time or upon that subject4 ,to make myself clear3 ,the only possible evidence of inspiration would be perfection--a perfection ex- celling anything that man unaided had ever attained4 ,an inspired book should excel all other books2 an inspired statue should be the best in this world2 an in- spired painting should be beyond all others4 ,if the ,bible has been improved in any particular1 it was not1 in that particular1 ''inspired4 ,if slavery is wrong1 the ,bible is not inspired4 ,if polygamy is vile and loathsome1 the ,bible is not inspired4 ,if wars of extermination are cruel and heartless1 the ,bible is not inspired4 ,if there is within that book a contradiction of any natural fact2 if there is one ignorant falsehood1 if there is one mistake1 then it is not inspired4 ,i do not mean mistakes that have grown out of translations2 but if there was in the original manuscript one mistake1 then it is not inspired4 ,i do not demand a miracle2 ,i do not demand a knowledge of the future2 ,i simply demand an absolute knowledge of the past4 ,i demand an ab- solute knowledge of the then present2 ,i demand a knowledge of the constitution of the human mind-- of the facts in nature1 and that is all ,i demand4 #cdc ,question4 ,if ,i understand you1 you think that all political power should come from the people2 do you not believe in any special providence1 and do you take the ground that ,god does not interest himself in the affairs of nations and individuals8 ,answer4 ,the ,christian idea is that ,god made the world1 and made certain laws for the government of matter and mind1 and that he never interferes except upon special occasions1 when the ordinary laws fail to work out the desired end4 ,their notion is1 that the ,lord now and then stops the horses simply to show that he is driving4 ,it seems to me that if an infinitely wise being made the world1 he must have made it the best possible2 and that if he made laws for the government of matter and mind1 he must have made the best possible laws4 ,if this is true1 not one of these laws can be violated without producing a posi- tive injury4 ,it does not seem probable that infinite wisdom would violate a law that infinite wisdom had made4 ,most ministers insist that ,god now and then in- terferes in the affairs of this world2 that he has not interfered as much lately as he did formerly4 ,when the world was comparatively new1 it required alto- gether more tinkering and fixing than at present4 #cdd ,things are at last in a reasonably good condition1 and consequently a great amount of interference is not necessary4 ,in old times it was found necessary fre- quently to raise the dead1 to change the nature of fire and water1 to punish people with plagues and famine1 to destroy cities by storms of fire and brimstone1 to change women into salt1 to cast hailstones upon heathen1 to interfere with the movements of our planetary system1 to stop the earth not only1 but sometimes to make it turn the other way1 to arrest the moon1 and to make water stand up like a wall4 ,now and then1 rivers were divided by striking them with a coat1 and people were taken to heaven in chariots of fire4 ,these miracles1 in addition to curing the sick1 the halt1 the deaf and blind1 were in former times found necessary1 but since the apostolic age1 nothing of the kind has been resorted to except in ,catholic countries4 ,since the death of the last apostle1 ,god has appeared only to members of the ,catholic ,church1 and all modern miracles have been performed for the benefit of ,catholicism4 ,there is no authentic account of the ,virgin ,mary having ever appeared to a ,protestant4 ,the bones of ,protestant saints have never cured a solitary disease4 ,protest- ants now say that the testimony of the ,catholics can #cde not be relied upon1 and yet1 the authenticity of every book in the ,new ,testament was established by ,cath- olic testimony4 ,some few miracles were performed in ,scotland1 and in fact in ,england and the ,united ,states1 but they were so small that they are hardly worth mentioning4 ,now and then1 a man was struck dead for taking the name of the ,lord in vain4 ,now and then1 people were drowned who were found in boats on ,sunday4 ,whenever anybody was about to commit murder1 ,god has not interfered--the reason being that he gave man free-will1 and expects to hold him accountable in another world1 and there is no exception to this free-will doctrine1 but in cases where men swear or violate the ,sabbath4 ,they are allowed to commit all other crimes without any in- terference on the part of the ,lord4 ,my own opinion is1 that the clergy found it neces- sary to preserve the ,sabbath for their own uses1 and for that reason endeavored to impress the people with the enormity of its violation1 and for that purpose gave instances of people being drowned and suddenly struck dead for working or amusing themselves on that day4 ,the clergy have objected to any other places of amusement except their own1 being opened on that day4 ,they wished to compel people either to go to #cdf church or stay at home4 ,they have also known that profanity tended to do away with the feelings of awe they wished to cultivate1 and for that reason they have insisted that swearing was one of the most terrible of crimes1 exciting above all others the wrath of ,god4 ,there was a time when people fell dead for having spoken disrespectfully to a priest4 ,the priest at that time pretended to be the visible representative of ,god1 and as such1 entitled to a degree of reverence amounting almost to worship4 ,several cases are given in the ecclesiastical history of ,scotland where men were deprived of speech for having spoken rudely to a parson4 ,these stories were calculated to increase the im- portance of the clergy and to convince people that they were under the special care of the ,deity4 ,the story about the bears devouring the little children was told in the first place1 and has been repeated since1 simply to protect ministers from the laughter of children4 ,there ought to be carved on each side of every pulpit a bear with fragments of children in its mouth1 as this animal has done so much to protect the dignity of the clergy4 ,besides the protection of ministers1 the drowning #cdg of breakers of the ,sabbath1 and striking a few people dead for using profane language1 ,i think there is no evidence of any providential interference in the affairs of this world in what may be called modern times4 ,ministers have endeavored to show that great calam- ities have been brought upon nations and cities as a punishment for the wickedness of the people4 ,they have insisted that some countries have been visited with earthquakes because the people had failed to discharge their religious duties2 but as earthquakes happened in uninhabited countries1 and often at sea1 where no one is hurt1 most people have concluded that they are not sent as punishments4 ,they have insisted that cities have been burned as a punish- ment1 and to show the indignation of the ,lord1 but at the same time they have admitted that if the streets had been wider1 the fire departments better organized1 and wooden buildings fewer1 the design of the ,lord would have been frustrated4 ,after reading the history of the world1 it is some- what difficult to find which side the ,lord is really on4 ,he has allowed ,catholics to overwhelm and de- stroy ,protestants1 and then he has allowed ,protestants to overwhelm and destroy ,catholics4 ,he has allowed ,christianity to triumph over ,paganism1 and he allowed #cdh ,mohammedans to drive back the hosts of the cross from the sepulchre of his son4 ,it is curious that this ,god would allow the slave trade to go on1 and yet punish the violators of the ,sabbath4 ,it is simply wonderful that he would allow kings to wage cruel and remorseless war1 to sacrifice millions upon the altar of heartless ambition1 and at the same time strike a man dead for taking his name in vain4 ,it is wonderful that he allowed slavery to exist for centu- ries in the ,united ,states2 that he allows polygamy now in ,utah2 that he cares nothing for liberty in ,russia1 nothing for free speech in ,germany1 nothing for the sorrows of the overworked1 underpaid millions of the world2 that he cares nothing for the innocent languishing in prisons1 nothing for the patriots con- demned to death1 nothing for the heart-broken widows and orphans1 nothing for the starving1 and yet has ample time to note a sparrow's fall4 ,if he would only strike dead the would-be murderers2 if he would only palsy the hands of husbands' uplifted to strike their wives2 if he would render speechless the cursers of children1 he could afford to overlook the swearers and breakers of his ,sabbath4 ,for one1 ,i am not satisfied with the government of this world1 and ,i am going to do what little ,i can #cdi to make it better4 ,i want more thought and less fear1 more manhood and less superstition1 less prayer and more help1 more education1 more reason1 more intellectual hospitality1 and above all1 and over all1 more liberty and kindness4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,god1 if there be one1 when he saves or damns a man1 will take into con- sideration all the circumstances of the man's life8 ,answer4 ,suppose that two orphan boys1 ,james and ,john1 are given homes4 ,james is taken into a ,christian family and ,john into an infidel4 ,james becomes a ,christian1 and dies in the faith4 ,john be- comes an infidel1 and dies without faith in ,christ4 ,according to the ,christian religion1 as commonly preached1 ,james will go to heaven1 and ,john to hell4 ,now1 suppose that ,god knew that if ,james had been raised by the infidel family1 he would have died an infidel1 and that if ,john had been raised by the ,christian family1 he would have died a ,christian4 ,what then8 ,recollect that the boys did not choose the families in which they were placed4 ,suppose that a child1 cast away upon an island in which he found plenty of food1 grew to manhood2 and suppose that after he had reached mature years1 #cej the island was visited by a missionary who taught a false religion2 and suppose that this islander was con- vinced that he ought to worship a wooden idol2 and suppose1 further1 that the worship consisted in sacri- ficing animals2 and suppose the islander1 actuated only by what he conceived to be his duty and by thankfulness1 sacrificed a toad every night and every morning upon the altar of his wooden god2 that when the sky looked black and threatening he sacri- ficed two toads2 that when feeling unwell he sacrificed three2 and suppose that in all this he was honest1 that he really believed that the shedding of toad-blood would soften the heart of his god toward him8 ,and suppose that after he had become fully-convinced of the truth of his religion1 a missionary of the true religion should visit the island1 and tell the history of the ,jews--unfold the whole scheme of salvation8 ,and suppose that the islander should honestly reject the true religion8 ,suppose he should say that he had internal evidence not only1 but that many miracles had been performed by his god1 in his behalf2 that often when the sky was black with storm1 he had sacrificed a toad1 and in a few moments the sun was again visible1 the heavens blue1 and without a cloud2 that on several occasions1 having #cea forgotten at evening to sacrifice his toad1 he found himself unable to sleep--that his conscience smote him1 he had risen1 made the sacrifice1 returned to his bed1 and in a few moments sunk into a serene and happy slumber8 ,and suppose1 further1 that the man honestly believed that the efficacy of the sacrifice depended largely on the size of the toad8 ,now suppose that in this belief the man had died1--what then8 ,it must be remembered that ,god knew when the missionary of the false religion went to the island2 and knew that the islander would be convinced of the truth of the false religion2 and he also knew that the missionary of the true religion could not1 by any possibility1 convince the islander of the error of his way2 what then8 ,if ,god is infinite1 we cannot speak of him as making efforts1 as being tired4 ,we cannot con- sistently say that one thing is easy to him1 and another thing is hard1 providing both are possible4 ,this being so1 why did not ,god reveal himself to every human being8 ,instead of having an inspired book1 why did he not make inspired folks8 ,instead of having his commandments put on tables of stone1 why did he not write them on each human brain8 #ceb ,why was not the mind of each man so made that every religious truth necessary to his salvation was an axiom8 ,do we not know absolutely that man is greatly influenced by his surroundings8 ,if ,mr4 ,talmage had been born in ,turkey1 is it not probable that he would now be a whirling ,dervish8 ,if he had first seen the light in ,central ,africa1 he might now have been prostrate before some enormous serpent2 if in ,india1 he might have been a ,brahmin1 running a prayer-machine2 if in ,spain1 he would probably have been a priest1 with his beads and holy water4 ,had he been born among the ,north ,american ,indians1 he would speak of the ,great ,spirit1 and solemnly smoke the the pipe of peace4 ,mr4 ,talmage teaches that it is the duty of children to perpetuate the errors of their parents2 conse- quently1 the religion of his parents determined his theology4 ,it is with him not a question of reason1 but of parents2 not a question of argument1 but of filial affection4 ,he does not wish to be a philoso- pher1 but an obedient son4 ,suppose his father had been a ,catholic1 and his mother a ,protestant1--what then8 ,would he show contempt for his mother by following the path of his father2 or would he show #cec disrespect for his father1 by accepting the religion of his mother2 or would he have become a ,protestant with ,catholic proclivities1 or a ,catholic with ,protest- ant leanings8 ,suppose his parents had both been infidels--what then8 ,is it not better for each one to decide honestly for himself8 ,admitting that your parents were good and kind2 admitting that they were honest in their views1 why not have the courage to say1 that in your opinion1 father and mother were both mistaken8 ,no one can honor his parents by being a hypocrite1 or an intellectu- al coward4 ,whoever is absolutely true to himself1 is true to his parents1 and true to the whole world4 ,who- ever is untrue to himself1 is false to all mankind4 ,re- ligion must be an individual matter4 ,if there is a ,god1 and if there is a day of judgment1 the church that a man belongs to will not be tried1 but the man will be tried4 ,it is a fact that the religion of most people was made for them by others2 that they have accepted certain dogmas1 not because they have examined them1 but because they were told that they were true4 ,most of the people in the ,united ,states1 had they been born in ,turkey1 would now be ,mohammedans1 and most of the ,turks1 had they been born in ,spain1 would now be ,catholics4 #ced ,it is almost1 if not quite1 impossible for a man to rise entirely above the ideas1 views1 doctrines and re- ligions of his tribe or country4 ,no one expects to find philosophers in ,central ,africa1 or scientists among the ,fejees4 ,no one expects to find philoso- phers or scientists in any country where the church has absolute control4 ,if there is an infinitely good and wise ,god1 of course he will take into consideration the surround- ings of every human being4 ,he understands the philosophy of environment1 and of heredity4 ,he knows exactly the influence of the mother1 of all associates1 of all associations4 ,he will also take into consideration the amount1 quality and form of each brain1 and whether the brain was healthy or diseased4 ,he will take into consideration the strength of the passions1 the weakness of the judgment4 ,he will know exactly the force of all temptation--what was resisted4 ,he will take an account of every effort made in the right direction1 and will understand all the winds and waves and quicksands and shores and shallows in1 upon and around the sea of every life4 ,my own opinion is1 that if such a being exists1 and all these things are taken into consideration1 we will #cee be absolutely amazed to see how small the difference is between the good and the bad4 ,certainly there is no such difference as would justify a being of infinite wisdom and benevolence in rewarding one with eternal joy and punishing the other with eternal pain4 ,question4 ,what are the principal reasons that have satisfied you that the ,bible is not an inspired book8 ,answer4 ,the great evils that have afflicted this world are3 ,first4 ,human slavery--where men have bought and sold their fellow-men--sold babes from mothers1 and have practiced7 every conceivable cruelty upon the helpless4 ,second4 ,polygamy--an institution that destroys the home1 that treats woman as a simple chattel1 that does away with the sanctity of marriage1 and with all that is sacred in love4 ,third4 ,wars of conquest and extermination-- by which nations have been made the food of the sword4 ,fourth4 ,the idea entertained by each nation that all other nations are destitute of rights--in other #cef words1 patriotism founded upon egotism1 prejudice1 and love of plunder4 ,fifth4 ,religious persecution4 ,sixth4 ,the divine right of kings--an idea that rests upon the inequality of human rights1 and insists that people should be governed without their con- sent2 that the right of one man to govern another comes from ,god1 and not from the consent of the governed4 ,this is caste--one of the most odious forms of slavery4 ,seventh4 ,a belief in malicious supernatural be- ings--devils1 witches1 and wizards4 ,eighth4 ,a belief in an infinite being who or- dered1 commanded1 established and approved all these evils4 ,ninth4 ,the idea that one man can be good for another1 or bad for another--that is to say1 that one can be rewarded for the goodness of another1 or justly punished for the sins of another4 ,tenth4 ,the dogma that a finite being can commit an infinite sin1 and thereby incur the eternal dis- pleasure of an infinitely good being1 and be justly subjected to eternal torment4 ,my principal objection to the ,bible is that it sus- tains all of these ten evils--that it is the advocate of #ceg human slavery1 the friend of polygamy2 that within its pages ,i find the command to wage wars of ex- termination2 that ,i find also that the ,jews were taught to hate foreigners--to consider all human beings as inferior to themselves2 ,i also find persecu- tion commanded as a religious duty2 that kings were seated upon their thrones by the direct act of ,god1 and that to rebel against a king was rebellion against ,god4 ,i object to the ,bible also because ,i find within its pages the infamous spirit of caste--,i see the sons of ,levi set apart as the perpetual beggars and governors of a people2 because ,i find the air filled with demons seeking to injure and betray the sons of men2 because this book is the fountain of modern superstition1 the bulwark of tyranny and the fortress of caste4 ,this book also subverts the idea of justice by threatening infinite punishment for the sins of a finite being4 ,at the same time1 ,i admit--as ,i always have ad- mitted--that there are good passages in the ,bible-- good laws1 good teachings1 with now and then a true line of history4 ,but when it is asserted that every word was written by inspiration--that a being of in- finite wisdom and goodness is its author1--then ,i raise the standard of revolt4 #ceh ,question4 ,what do you think of the declaration of ,mr4 ,talmage that the ,bible will be read in heaven throughout all the endless ages of eternity8 ,answer4 ,of course ,i know but very little as to what is or will be done in heaven4 ,my knowledge of that country is somewhat limited1 and it may be possible that the angels will spend most of their time in turning over the sacred leaves of the ,old ,testa- ment4 ,i can not positively deny the statement of the ,reverend ,mr4 ,talmage as ,i have but very little idea as to how the angels manage to kill time4 ,the ,reverend ,mr4 ,spurgeon stated in a sermon that some people wondered what they would do through all eternity in heaven4 ,he said that1 as for himself1 for the first hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in one of the ,savior's feet1 and for the next hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in his other foot1 and for the next hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in one of his hands1 and for the next hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in the other hand1 and for the next hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in his side4 ,surely1 nothing could be more delightful than this #cei ,a man capable of being happy in such employment1 could of course take great delight in reading even the genealogies of the ,old ,testament4 ,it is very easy to see what a glow of joy would naturally over- spread the face of an angel while reading the history of the ,jewish wars1 how the seraphim and cherubim would clasp their rosy palms in ecstasy over the fate of ,korah and his company1 and what laughter would wake the echoes of the ,new ,jerusalem as some one told again the story of the children and the bears2 and what happy groups1 with folded pinions1 would smilingly listen to the #ajith ,psalm4 ,illustration3 #cga ,an orthodox state of mind ,,the ,,talmagian ,,catechism4 ,as ,mr4 ,talmage delivered the series of sermons referred to in these interviews1 for the purpose of furnishing arguments to the young1 so that they might not be misled by the sophistry of modern infi-delity1 ,i have thought it best to set forth1 for use in ,sunday schools1 the pith and marrow of what he has been pleased to say1 in the form of ,a ,,shorter ,,catechism4 ,question4 ,who made you8 ,answer4 ,jehovah1 the original ,presbyterian4 ,question4 ,what else did he make8 ,answer4 ,he made the world and all things4 ,question4 ,did he make the world out of nothing8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,question4 ,what did he make it out of8 ,answer4 ,out of his omnipotence4 ,many infidels have pretended that if ,god made the universe1 and if there was nothing until he did make it1 he had nothing to make it out of4 ,of course this is perfectly absurd when we remember that he always had his omnipo- tence and that is1 undoubtedly1 the material used4 #cfd ,question4 ,did he create his own omnipotence8 ,answer4 ,certainly not1 he was always omnipo- tent4 ,question4 ,then if he always had omnipotence1 he did not create the material of which the uni- verse is made2 he simply took a portion of his omnipotence and changed it to universe8 ,answer4 ,certainly1 that is the way ,i under- stand it4 ,question4 ,is he still omnipotent1 and has he as much omnipotence now as he ever had8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i suppose he has4 ,question4 ,how long did it take ,god to make the universe8 ,answer4 ,six good-whiles4 ,question4 ,how long is a good-while8 ,answer4 ,that will depend upon the future dis- coveries of geologists4 ,good-whiles are of such a nature that they can be pulled out1 or pushed up2 and it is utterly impossible for any infidel1 or scien- tific geologist1 to make any period that a good-while won't fit4 ,question4 ,what do you understand by the morning and evening of a good-while8 ,answer4 ,of course the words morning and #cfe evening are used figuratively1 and mean simply the beginning and the ending1 of each good-while4 ,question4 ,on what day did ,god make vegetation8 ,answer4 ,on the third day4 ,question4 ,was that before the sun was made8 ,answer4 ,yes2 a good-while before4 ,question4 ,how did vegetation grow without sun- light8 ,answer4 ,my own opinion is1 that it was either nourished by the glare of volcanoes in the moon or it may have gotten sufficient light from rivers of molten granite2 or1 sufficient light might have been emitted by the crystallization of rocks4 ,it has been suggested that light might have been fur- nished by fire-flies and phosphorescent bugs and worms1 but this ,i regard as going too far4 ,question4 ,do you think that light emitted by rocks would be sufficient to produce trees8 ,answer4 ,yes1 with the assistance of the ,aurora ,borealis1 or even the ,aurora ,australis2 but with both1 most assuredly4 ,question4 ,if the light of which you speak was sufficient1 why was the sun made8 ,answer4 ,to keep time with4 ,question4 ,what did ,god make man of8 #cff ,answer4 ,he made man of dust and omnipo- tence4 ,question4 ,did he make a woman at the same time that he made a man8 ,answer4 ,no2 he thought at one time to avoid the necessity of making a woman1 and he caused all the animals to pass before ,adam1 to see what he would call them1 and to see whether a fit companion could be found for him4 ,among them all1 not one suited ,adam1 and ,jehovah immediately saw that he would have to make an help-meet on purpose4 ,question4 ,what was woman made of8 ,answer4 ,she was made out of man's side1 out of his right side1 and some more omnipotence4 ,infi- dels say that she was made out of a rib1 or a bone1 but that is because they do not understand ,hebrew4 ,question4 ,what was the object of making woman out of man's side8 ,answer4 ,so that a young man would think more of a neighbor's girl than of his own uncle or grand- father4 ,question4 ,what did ,god do with ,adam and ,eve after he got them done8 ,answer4 ,he put them into a garden to see what they would do4 #cfg ,question4 ,do we know where the ,garden of ,eden was1 and have we ever found any place where a river parted and became into four heads8 ,answer4 ,we are not certain where this garden was1 and the river that parted into four heads cannot at present be found4 ,infidels have had a great deal to say about these four rivers1 but they will wish they had even one1 one of these days4 ,question4 ,what happened to ,adam and ,eve in the garden8 ,answer4 ,they were tempted by a snake who was an exceedingly good talker1 and who probably came in walking on the end of his tail4 ,this supposition is based upon the fact that1 as a punishment1 he was condemned to crawl on his belly4 ,before that time1 of course1 he walked upright4 ,question4 ,what happened then8 ,answer4 ,our first parents gave way1 ate of the forbidden fruit1 and in consequence1 disease and death entered the world4 ,had it not been for this1 there would have been no death and no disease4 ,suicide would have been impossible1 and a man could have been blown into a thousand atoms by dynamite1 and the pieces would immediately have come together again4 ,fire would have refused to #cfh burn and water to drown2 there could have been no hunger1 no thirst2 all things would have been equally healthy4 ,question4 ,do you mean to say that there would have been no death in the world1 either of animals1 insects1 or persons8 ,answer4 ,of course4 ,question4 ,do you also think that all briers and thorns sprang from the same source1 and that had the apple not been eaten1 no bush in the world would have had a thorn1 and brambles and thistles would have been unknown8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,question4 ,would there have been no poisonous plants1 no poisonous reptiles8 ,answer4 ,no1 sir2 there would have been none2 there would have been no evil in the world if ,adam and ,eve had not partaken of the forbidden fruit4 ,question4 ,was the snake who tempted them to eat1 evil8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ' ,question4 ,was he in the world before the for- bidden fruit was eaten8 ,answer4 ,of course he was2 he tempted them to eat it #cfi ,question4 ,how1 then1 do you account for the fact that1 before the forbidden fruit was eaten1 an evil serpent was in the world8 ,answer4 ,perhaps apples had been eaten in other worlds4 ,question4 ,is it not wonderful that such awful con- sequences flowed from so small an act8 ,answer4 ,it is not for you to reason about it2 you should simply remember that ,god is omnipotent4 ,there is but one way to answer these things1 and that is to admit their truth4 ,nothing so puts the ,infinite out of temper as to see a human being impudent enough to rely upon his reason4 ,the moment we rely upon our reason1 we abandon ,god1 and try to take care of ourselves4 ,whoever relies entirely upon ,god1 has no need of reason1 and reason has no need of him4 ,question4 ,were our first parents under the im- mediate protection of an infinite ,god8 ,answer4 ,they were4 ,question4 ,why did he not protect them8 ,why did he not warn them of this snake8 ,why did he not put them on their guard8 ,why did he not make them so sharp1 intellectually1 that they could not be deceived8 ,why did he not destroy that #cgj snake2 or how did he come to make him2 what did he make him for8 ,answer4 ,you must remember that1 although ,god made ,adam and ,eve perfectly good1 still he was very anxious to test them4 ,he also gave them the power of choice1 knowing at the same time exactly what they would choose1 and knowing that he had made them so that they must choose in a certain way4 ,a being of infinite wisdom tries experiments4 ,knowing ex- actly what will happen1 he wishes to see if it will4 ,question4 ,what punishment did ,god inflict upon ,adam and ,eve for the sin of having eaten the for- bidden fruit8 ,answer4 ,he pronounced a curse upon the woman1 saying that in sorrow she should bring forth children1 and that her husband should rule over her2 that she1 having tempted her husband1 was made his slave2 and through her1 all married women have been de- prived of their natural liberty4 ,on account of the sin of ,adam and ,eve1 ,god cursed the ground1 saying that it should bring forth thorns and thistles1 and that man should eat his bread in sorrow1 and that he should eat the herb of the field4 ,question4 ,did he turn them out of the garden because of their sin8 #cga ,answer4 ,no4 ,the reason ,god gave for turning them out of the garden was3 ,behold the man is become as one of us1 to know good and evil2 and now1 lest he put forth his hand and take of the tree of life and eat and live forever1 therefore1 the ,lord ,god sent him forth from the ,garden of ,eden to till the ground from whence he was taken4 ,question4 ,if the man had eaten of the tree of life1 would he have lived forever8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,question4 ,was he turned out to prevent his eating8 ,answer4 ,he was4 ,question4 ,then the ,old ,testament tells us how we lost immortality1 not that we are immortal1 does it8 ,answer4 ,yes2 it tells us how we lost it4 ,question4 ,was ,god afraid that ,adam and ,eve might get back into the garden1 and eat of the fruit of the tree of life8 ,answer4 ,i suppose he was1 as he placed cher- ubim and a flaming sword which turned every way to guard the tree of life4 ,question4 ,has any one ever seen any of these cherubim8 ,answer4 ,not that ,i know of4 #cgb ,question4 ,where is the flaming sword now8 ,answer4 ,some angel has it in heaven4 ,question4 ,do you understand that ,god made coats of skins1 and clothed ,adam and ,eve when he turned them out of the garden8 ,answer4 ,yes1 sir4 ,question4 ,do you really believe that the infinite ,god killed some animals1 took their skins from them1 cut out and sewed up clothes for ,adam and ,eve8 ,answer4 ,the ,bible says so2 we know that he had patterns for clothes1 because he showed some to ,moses on ,mount ,sinai4 ,question4 ,about how long did ,god continue to pay particular attention to his children in this world8 ,answer4 ,for about fifteen hundred years2 and some of the people lived to be nearly a thousand years of age4 ,question4 ,did this ,god establish any schools or institutions of learning8 ,did he establish any church8 ,did he ordain any ministers1 or did he have any re- vivals8 ,answer4 ,no2 he allowed the world to go on pretty much in its own way4 ,he did not even keep his own boys at home4 ,they came down and made #cgc love to the daughters of men1 and finally the world got exceedingly bad4 ,question4 ,what did ,god do then8 ,answer4 ,he made up his mind that he would drown them4 ,you see they were all totally depraved1--in every joint and sinew of their bodies1 in every drop of their blood1 and in every thought of their brains4 ,question4 ,did he drown them all8 ,answer4 ,no1 he saved eight1 to start with again4 ,question4 ,were these eight persons totally de- praved8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,question4 ,why did he not kill them1 and start over again with a perfect pair8 ,would it not have been better to have had his flood at first1 before he made anybody1 and drowned the snake8 ,answer4 ,god's way are not our ways2 and besides1 you must remember that a thousand years are as one day with ,god4 ,question4 ,how did ,god destroy the people8 ,answer4 ,by water2 it rained forty days and forty nights1 and the fountains of the great deep were broken up4 ,question4 ,how deep was the water8 ,answer4 ,about five miles4 #cgd ,question4 ,how much did it rain each day8 ,answer4 ,about eight hundred feet2 though the better opinion now is1 that it was a local flood4 ,in- fidels have raised objections and pressed them to that degree that most orthodox people admit that the flood was rather local4 ,question4 ,if it was a local flood1 why did they put birds of the air into the ark8 ,certainly1 birds could have avoided a local flood8 ,answer4 ,if you take this away from us1 what do you propose to give us in its place8 ,some of the best people of the world have believed this story4 ,kind husbands1 loving mothers1 and earnest patriots have believed it1 and that is sufficient4 ,question4 ,at the time ,god made these people1 did he know that he would have to drown them all8 ,answer4 ,of course he did4 ,question4 ,did he know when he made them that they would all be failures8 ,answer4 ,of course4 ,question4 ,why1 then1 did he make them8 ,answer4 ,he made them for his own glory1 and no man should disgrace his parents by denying it4 ,question4 ,were the people after the flood just as bad as they were before8 #cge ,answer4 ,about the same4 ,question4 ,did they try to circumvent ,god8 ,answer4 ,they did4 ,question4 ,how8 ,answer4 ,they got together for the purpose of build- ing a tower1 the top of which should reach to heaven1 so that they could laugh at any future floods1 and go to heaven at any time they desired4 ,question4 ,did ,god hear about this8 ,answer4 ,he did4 ,question4 ,what did he say8 ,answer4 ,he said3 ,go to2 let us go down1 and see what the people are doing2 ,i am satisfied they will succeed4 ,question4 ,how were the people prevented from succeeding8 ,answer4 ,god confounded their language1 so that the mason on top could not cry mort'6 to the hod-carrier below2 he could not think of the word to use1 to save his life1 and the building stopped4 ,question4 ,if it had not been for the confusion of tongues at ,babel1 do you really think that all the people in the world would have spoken just the same language1 and would have pronounced every word precisely the same8 #cgf ,answer4 ,of course4 ,question4 ,if it had not been1 then1 for the con- fusion of languages1 spelling books1 grammars and dictionaries would have been useless8 ,answer4 ,i suppose so4 ,question4 ,do any two people in the whole world speak the same language1 now8 ,answer4 ,of course they don't1 and this is one of the great evidences that ,god introduced confusion into the languages4 ,every error in grammar1 every mistake in spelling1 every blunder in pronunciation1 proves the truth of the ,babel story4 ,question4 ,this being so1 this miracle is the best attested of all8 ,answer4 ,i suppose it is4 ,question4 ,do you not think that a confusion of tongues would bring men together instead of separa- ting them8 ,would not a man unable to converse with his fellow feel weak instead of strong2 and would not people whose language had been con- founded cling together for mutual support8 ,answer4 ,according to nature1 yes2 according to theology1 no2 and these questions must be answered according to theology4 ,and right here1 it may be well enough to state1 that in theology the unnatural #cgg is the probable1 and the impossible is what has always happened4 ,if theology were simply natural1 anybody could be a theologian4 ,question4 ,did ,god ever make any other special efforts to convert the people1 or to reform the world8 ,answer4 ,yes1 he destroyed the cities of ,sodom and ,gomorrah with a storm of fire and brimstone4 ,question4 ,do you suppose it was really brim- stone8 ,answer4 ,undoubtedly4 ,question4 ,do you think this brimstone came from the clouds8 ,answer4 ,let me tell you that you have no right to examine the ,bible in the light of what people are pleased to call science4 ,the natural has nothing to do with the supernatural4 ,naturally there would be no brimstone in the clouds1 but supernaturally there might be4 ,god could make brimstone out of his omnipotence4 ,we do not know really what brimstone is1 and nobody knows exactly how brim- stone is made4 ,as a matter of fact1 all the brimstone in the world might have fallen at that time4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,lot's wife was changed into salt8 ,answer4 ,of course she was4 ,a miracle was per- #cgh formed4 ,a few centuries ago1 the statue of salt made by changing ,lot's wife into that article1 was standing4 ,christian travelers have seen it4 ,question4 ,why do you think she was changed into salt8 ,answer4 ,for the purpose of keeping the event fresh in the minds of men4 ,question4 ,god having failed to keep people in- nocent in a garden2 having failed to govern them outside of a garden2 having failed to reform them by water2 having failed to produce any good result by a confusion of tongues2 having failed to reform them with fire and brimstone1 what did he then do8 ,answer4 ,he concluded that he had no time to waste on them all1 but that he would have to select one tribe1 and turn his entire attention to just a few folks4 ,question4 ,whom did he select8 ,answer4 ,a man by the name of ,abram4 ,question4 ,what kind of man was ,abram8 ,answer4 ,if you wish to know1 read the twelfth chapter of ,genesis2 and if you still have any doubts as to his character1 read the twentieth chapter of the same book1 and you will see that he was a man who made merchandise of his wife's body4 ,he had had #cgi such good fortune in ,egypt1 that he tried the experi- ment again on ,abimelech4 ,question4 ,did ,abraham show any gratitude8 ,answer4 ,yes2 he offered to sacrifice his son1 to show his confidence in ,jehovah4 ,question4 ,what became of ,abraham and his people8 ,answer4 ,god took such care of them1 that in about two hundred and fifteen years they were all slaves in the land of ,egypt4 ,question4 ,how long did they remain in slavery8 ,answer4 ,two hundred and fifteen years4 ,question4 ,were they the same people that ,god had promised to take care of8 ,answer4 ,they were4 ,question4 ,was ,god at that time1 in favor of slavery8 ,answer4 ,not at that time4 ,he was angry at the ,egyptians for enslaving the ,jews1 but he afterwards authorized the ,jews to enslave other people4 ,question4 ,what means did he take to liberate the ,jews8 ,answer4 ,he sent his agents to ,pharaoh1 and de- manded their freedom2 and upon ,pharaoh s refusing1 he afflicted the people1 who had nothing to do with #chj it1 with various plagues1--killed children1 and tor- mented and tortured beasts4 ,question4 ,was such conduct ,godlike8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,if you have anything against your neighbor1 it is perfectly proper to torture his horse1 or torment his dog4 ,nothing can be nobler than this4 ,you see it is much better to injure his animals than to injure him4 ,to punish animals for the sins of their owners must be just1 or ,god would not have done it4 ,pharaoh insisted on keeping the people in slavery1 and therefore ,god covered the bodies of oxen and cows with boils4 ,he also bruised them to death with hailstones4 ,from this we infer1 that the loving kindness of ,god is over all his works4 ,question4 ,do you consider such treatment of ani- mals consistent with divine mercy8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,you know that under the ,mosaic dispensation1 when a man did a wrong1 he could settle with ,god by killing an ox1 or a sheep1 or some doves4 ,if the man failed to kill them1 of course ,god would kill them4 ,it was upon this prin- ciple that he destroyed the animals of the ,egyptians4 ,they had sinned1 and he merely took his pay4 ,question4 ,how was it possible1 under the old dis- pensation1 to please a being of infinite kindness8 #cha ,answer4 ,all you had to do was to take an innocent animal1 bring it to the altar1 cut its throat1 and sprinkle the altar with its blood4 ,certain parts of it were to be given to the butcher as his share1 and the rest was to be burnt on the altar4 ,when ,god saw an animal thus butchered1 and smelt the warm blood mingled with the odor of burning flesh1 he was pacified1 and the smile of forgiveness shed its light upon his face4 ,of course1 infidels laugh at these things2 but what can you expect of men who have not been born again8 ,the carnal mind is enmity with ,god4 ,question4 ,what else did ,god do in order to in- duce ,pharaoh to liberate the ,jews8 ,answer4 ,he had his agents throw down a cane in the presence of ,pharaoh and thereupon ,jehovah changed this cane into a serpent4 ,question4 ,did this convince ,pharaoh8 ,answer4 ,no2 he sent for his own magicians4 ,question4 ,what did they do8 ,answer4 ,they threw down some canes and they also were changed into serpents4 ,question4 ,did ,jehovah change the canes of the ,egyptian magicians into snakes8 ,answer4 ,i suppose he did1 as he is the only one capable of performing such a miracle4 #chb ,question4 ,if the rod of ,aaron was changed into a serpent in order to convince ,pharaoh that ,god had sent ,aaron and ,moses1 why did ,god change the sticks of the ,egyptian magicians into serpents--why did he discredit his own agents1 and render worth- less their only credentials8 ,answer4 ,well1 we cannot explain the conduct of ,jehovah2 we are perfectly satisfied that it was for the best4 ,even in this age of the world ,god allows infidels to overwhelm his chosen people with argu- ments2 he allows them to discover facts that his ministers can not answer1 and yet we are satisfied that in the end ,god will give the victory to us4 ,all these things are tests of faith4 ,it is upon this prin- ciple that ,god allows geology to laugh at ,genesis1 that he permits astronomy apparently to contradict his holy word4 ,question4 ,what did ,god do with these people after ,pharaoh allowed them to go8 ,answer4 ,finding that they were not fit to settle a new country1 owing to the fact that when hungry they longed for food1 and sometimes when their lips were cracked with thirst insisted on having water1 ,god in his infinite mercy had them marched round and round1 back and forth1 through a barren wilder- #chc ness1 until all1 with the exception of two persons1 died4 ,question4 ,why did he do this8 ,answer4 ,because he had promised these people that he would take them to a land flowing with milk and honey4 ,question4 ,was ,god always patient and kind and merciful toward his children while they were in the wilderness8 ,answer4 ,yes1 he always was merciful and kind and patient4 ,infidels have taken the ground that he visited them with plagues and disease and famine2 that he had them bitten by serpents1 and now and then allowed the ground to swallow a few thousands of them1 and in other ways saw to it that they were kept as comfortable and happy as was consistent with good government2 but all these things were for their good2 and the fact is1 infidels have no real sense of justice4 ,question4 ,how did ,god happen to treat the ,is- raelites in this way1 when he had promised ,abraham that he would take care of his progeny1 and when he had promised the same to the poor wretches while they were slaves in ,egypt8 ,answer4 ,because ,god is unchangeable in his na- #chd ture1 and wished to convince them that every being should be perfectly faithful to his promise4 ,question4 ,was ,god driven to madness by the conduct of his chosen people8 ,answer4 ,almost4 ,question4 ,did he know exactly what they would do when he chose them8 ,answer4 ,exactly4 ,question4 ,were the ,jews guilty of idolatry8 ,answer4 ,they were4 ,they worshiped other gods --gods made of wood and stone4 ,question4 ,is it not wonderful that they were not convinced of the power of ,god1 by the many mira- cles wrought in ,egypt and in the wilderness8 ,answer4 ,yes1 it is very wonderful2 but the ,jews1 who must have seen bread rained from heaven2 who saw water gush from the rocks and follow them up hill and down2 who noticed that their clothes did not wear out1 and did not even get shiny at the knees1 while the elbows defied the ravages of time1 and their shoes remained perfect for forty years2 it is wonderful that when they saw the ground open and swallow their comrades2 when they saw ,god talking face to face with ,moses as a man talks with his friend2 after they saw the cloud by day and the #che pillar of fire by night1--it is absolutely astonishing that they had more faith in a golden calf that they made themselves1 than in ,jehovah4 ,question4 ,how is it that the ,jews had no confi- dence in these miracles8 ,answer4 ,because they were there and saw them4 ,question4 ,do you think that it is necessary for us to believe all the miracles of the ,old ,testament in order to be saved8 ,answer4 ,the ,old ,testament is the foundation of the ,new4 ,if the ,old ,testament is not inspired1 then the ,new is of no value4 ,if the ,old ,testament is inspired1 all the miracles are true1 and we cannot believe that ,god would allow any errors1 or false statements1 to creep into an inspired volume1 and to be perpetuated through all these years4 ,question4 ,should we believe the miracles1 whether they are reasonable or not8 ,answer4 ,certainly2 if they were reasonable1 they would not be miracles4 ,it is their unreasonableness that appeals to our credulity and our faith4 ,it is im- possible to have theological faith in anything that can be demonstrated4 ,it is the office of faith to believe1 not only without evidence1 but in spite of evidence4 ,it is impossible for the carnal mind to #chf believe that ,samsons muscle depended upon the length of his hair4 ,god has made the wisdom of this world foolishness4 ,neither can the uncon- verted believe that ,elijah stopped at a hotel kept by ravens4 ,neither can they believe that a barrel would in and of itself produce meal1 or that an earthen pot could create oil4 ,but to a ,christian1 in order that a widow might feed a preacher1 the truth of these stories is perfectly apparent4 ,question4 ,how should we regard the wonderful stories of the ,old ,testament8 ,answer4 ,they should be looked upon as types and symbols4 ,they all have a spiritual signifi- cance4 ,the reason ,i believe the story of ,jonah is1 that ,jonah is a type of ,christ4 ,question4 ,do you believe the story of ,jonah to be a true account of a literal fact8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,you must remember that ,jonah was not swallowed by a whale4 ,god pre- pared a great fish for that occasion4 ,neither is it by any means certain that ,jonah was in the belly of this whale4 ,he probably stayed in his mouth4 ,even if he was in his stomach1 it was very easy for him to defy the ordinary action of gastric juice by rapidly walking up and down44 #chg ,question4 ,do you think that ,jonah was really in the whale's stomach8 ,answer4 ,my own opinion is that he stayed in his mouth4 ,the only objection to this theory is1 that it is more reasonable than the other and requires less faith4 ,nothing could be easier than for ,god to make a fish large enough to furnish ample room for one passenger in his mouth4 ,i throw out this suggestion simply that you may be able to answer the objections of infidels who are always laughing at this story4 ,question4 ,do you really believe that ,elijah went to heaven in a chariot of fire1 drawn by horses of fire8 ,answer4 ,of course he did4 ,question4 ,what was this miracle performed for8 ,answer4 ,to convince the people of the power of ,god4 ,question4 ,who saw the miracle8 ,answer4 ,nobody but ,elisha4 ,question4 ,was he convinced before that time8 ,answer4 ,oh yes2 he was one of ,god's prophets4 ,question4 ,suppose that in these days two men should leave a town together1 and after a while one of them should come back having on the clothes of the other1 and should account for the fact that he had #chh his friend's clothes by saying that while they were going along the road together a chariot of fire came down from heaven drawn by fiery steeds1 and there- upon his friend got into the carriage1 threw him his clothes1 and departed1--would you believe it8 ,answer4 ,of course things like that don't happen in these days2 ,god does not have to rely on wonders now4 ,question4 ,do you mean that he performs no miracles at the present day8 ,answer4 ,we cannot say that he does not perform miracles now1 but we are not in position to call atten- tion to any particular one4 ,of course he supervises the affairs of nations and men and does whatever in his judgment is necessary4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,samson's strength depended on the length of his hair8 ,answer4 ,the ,bible so states1 and the ,bible is true4 ,a physiologist might say that a man could not use the muscle in his hair for lifting purposes1 but these same physiologists could not tell you how you move a finger1 nor how you lift a feather2 still1 actuated by the pride of intellect1 they insist that the length of a man's hair could not determine his strength4 ,god says it did2 the physiologist says that it did not2 we #chi can not hesitate whom to believe4 ,for the purpose of avoiding eternal agony ,i am willing to believe anything2 ,i am willing to say that strength depends upon the length of hair1 or faith upon the length of ears4 ,i am perfectly willing to believe that a man caught three hundred foxes1 and put fire brands be- tween their tails2 that he slew thousands with a bone1 and that he made a bee hive out of a lion4 ,i will believe1 if necessary1 that when this man's hair was short he hardly had strength enough to stand1 and that when it was long1 he could carry away the gates of a city1 or overthrow a temple filled with people4 ,if the infidel is right1 ,i will lose nothing by believing1 but if he is wrong1 ,i shall gain an eternity of joy4 ,if ,god did not intend that we should believe these stories1 he never would have told them1 and why should a man put his soul in peril by trying to dis- prove one of the statements of the ,lord8 ,question4 ,suppose it should turn out that some of these miracles depend upon mistranslations of the original ,hebrew1 should we still believe them8 ,answer4 ,the safe side is the best side4 ,it is far better to err on the side of belief1 than on the side of infidelity4 ,god does not threaten anybody with eternal punishment for believing too much4 #cij ,danger lies on the side of investigation1 on the side of thought4 ,the perfectly idiotic are absolutely safe4 ,as they diverge from that point1--as they rise in the intellectual scale1 as the brain develops1 as the faculties enlarge1 the danger increases4 ,i know that some biblical students now take the ground that ,samson caught no foxes1--that he only took sheaves of wheat that had been already cut and bound1 set them on fire1 and threw them into the grain still standing4 ,if this is what he did1 of course there is nothing miraculous about it1 and the value of the story is lost4 ,so1 others contend that ,elijah was not fed by the ravens1 but by the ,arabs4 ,they tell us that the ,hebrew word standing for ,arab also stands for bird1 and that the word really means migratory--going from place to place--homeless4 ,but ,i prefer the old version4 ,it certainly will do no harm to believe that ravens brought bread and flesh to a prophet of ,god4 ,where they got their bread and flesh is none of my business2 how they knew where the prophet was1 and recognized him2 or how ,god talks to ravens1 or how he gave them directions1 ,i have no right to inquire4 ,i leave these questions to the scientists1 the blasphemers1 and thinkers4 ,there are many people in the church anxious to #cia get the miracles out of the ,bible1 and thousands1 ,i have no doubt1 would be greatly gratified to learn that there is1 in fact1 nothing miraculous in ,scripture2 but when you take away the miraculous1 you take away the supernatural2 when you take away the supernatural1 you destroy the ministry2 and when you take away the ministry1 hundreds of thousands of men will be left without employment4 ,question4 ,is it not wonderful that the ,egyptians were not converted by the miracles wrought in their country8 ,answer4 ,yes1 they all would have been1 if ,god had not purposely hardened their hearts to prevent it4 ,jehovah always took great delight in furnishing the evidence1 and then hardening the man's heart so that he would not believe it4 ,after all the miracles that had been performed in ,egypt1--the most won- derful that were ever done in any country1 the ,egyptians were as unbelieving as at first2 they pur- sued the ,israelites1 knowing that they were protected by an infinite ,god1 and failing to overwhelm them1 came back and worshiped their own false gods just as firmly as before4 ,all of which shows the unreason- ableness of a ,pagan1 and the natural depravity of human nature4 #cib ,question4 ,how did it happen that the ,canaanites were never convinced that the ,jews were assisted by ,jehovah8 ,answer4 ,they must have been an exceedingly brave people to contend so many years with the chosen people of ,god4 ,notwithstanding all their cities were burned time and time again2 notwith- standing all the men1 women and children were put to the edge of the sword2 notwithstanding the taking of all their cattle and sheep1 they went right on fighting just as valiantly and desperately as ever4 ,each one lost his life many times1 and was just as ready for the next conflict4 ,my own opinion is1 that ,god kept them alive by raising them from the dead after each battle1 for the purpose of punishing the ,jews4 ,god used his enemies as instruments for the civilization of the ,jewish people4 ,he did not wish to convert them1 because they would give him much more trouble as ,jews than they did as ,canaanites4 ,he had all the ,jews he could conveniently take care of4 ,he found it much easier to kill a hundred ,canaanites than to civilize one ,jew4 ,question4 ,how do you account for the fact that the heathen were not surprised at the stopping of the sun and moon8 #cic ,answer4 ,they were so ignorant that they had not the slightest conception of the real cause of the phenomenon4 ,had they known the size of the earth1 and the relation it sustained to the other heavenly bodies2 had they known the magnitude of the sun1 and the motion of the moon1 they would1 in all probability1 have been as greatly astonished as the ,jews were2 but being densely ignorant of as- tronomy1 it must have produced upon them not the slightest impression4 ,but we must remember that the sun and moon were not stopped for the purpose of converting these people1 but to give ,joshua more time to kill them4 ,as soon as we see clearly the purpose of ,jehovah1 we instantly perceive how ad- mirable were the means adopted4 ,question4 ,do you not consider the treatment of the ,canaanites to have been cruel and ferocious8 ,answer4 ,to a totally depraved man1 it does look cruel2 to a being without any good in him1--to one who has inherited the rascality of many generations1 the murder of innocent women and little children does seem horrible2 to one who is contaminated in all his parts1 by original sin1--who was conceived in sin1 and brought forth in iniquity1 the assassina- tion of men1 and the violation of captive maidens1 #cid do not seem consistent with infinite goodness4 ,but when one has been born again1 when the love of ,god has been shed abroad in his heart1 when he loves all mankind1 when he overcomes evil with good1 when he prays for those who despite- fully use him and persecute him1--to such a man1 the extermination of the ,canaanites1 the violation of women1 the slaughter of babes1 and the destruc- tion of countless thousands1 is the highest evidence of the goodness1 the mercy1 and the long-suffering of ,god4 ,when a man has been born again1 all the passages of the ,old ,testament that appear so horrible and so unjust to one in his natural state1 become the dearest1 the most consoling1 and the most beautiful of truths4 ,the real ,christian reads the accounts of these ancient battles with the greatest possible satisfaction4 ,to one who really loves his enemies1 the groans of men1 the shrieks of women1 and the cries of babes1 make music sweeter than the zephyr's breath4 ,question4 ,in your judgment1 why did ,god destroy the ,canaanites8 ,answer4 ,to prevent their contaminating his chosen people4 ,he knew that if the ,jews were allowed to live with such neighbors1 they would #cie finally become as bad as the ,canaanites themselves4 ,he wished to civilize his chosen people1 and it was therefore necessary for him to destroy the heathen4 ,question4 ,did ,god succeed in civilizing the ,jews after he had removed the ,canaanites8 ,answer4 ,well1 not entirely4 ,he had to allow the heathen he had not destroyed to overrun the whole land and make captives of the ,jews4 ,this was done for the good of his chosen people4 ,question4 ,did he then succeed in civilizing them8 ,answer4 ,not quite4 ,question4 ,did he ever quite succeed in civilizing them8 ,answer4 ,well1 we must admit that the experi- ment never was a conspicuous success4 ,the ,jews were chosen by the ,almighty #dcj years before he appeared to ,moses on ,mount ,sinai4 ,he was their direct ,governor4 ,he attended personally to their religion and politics1 and gave up a great part of his valuable time for about two thousand years1 to the management of their affairs2 and yet1 such was the condition of the ,jewish people1 after they had had all these advantages1 that when there arose among them a perfectly kind1 just1 generous and honest man1 these people1 with whom ,god had been laboring for so #cif many centuries1 deliberately put to death that good and loving man4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,god really endeav- ored to civilize the ,jews8 ,answer4 ,this is an exceedingly hard question4 ,if he had really tried to do it1 of course he could have done it4 ,we must not think of limiting the power of the infinite4 ,but you must remember that if he had succeeded in civilizing the ,jews1 if he had educated them up to the plane of intellectual liberty1 and made them just and kind and merciful1 like him- self1 they would not have crucified ,christ1 and you can see at once the awful condition in which we would all be to-day4 ,no atonement could have been made2 and if no atonement had been made1 then1 according to the ,christian system1 the whole world would have been lost4 ,we must admit that there was no time in the history of the ,jews from ,sinai to ,jerusalem1 that they would not have put a man like ,christ to death4 ,question4 ,so you think that1 after all1 it was not ,god's intention that the ,jews should become civilized8 ,answer4 ,we do not know4 ,we can only say that ,god's ways are not our ways4 ,it may be that ,god took them in his special charge1 for the #cig purpose of keeping them bad enough to make the necessary sacrifice4 ,that may have been the divine plan4 ,in any event1 it is safer to believe the explana- tion that is the most unreasonable4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,christ knew the ,jews would crucify him8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,question4 ,do you think that when he chose ,judas he knew that he would betray him8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,question4 ,did he know when ,judas went to the chief priest and made the bargain for the delivery of ,christ8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,question4 ,why did he allow himself to be be- trayed1 if he knew the plot8 ,answer4 ,infidelity is a very good doctrine to live by1 but you should read the last words of ,paine and ,voltaire4 ,question4 ,if ,christ knew that ,judas would betray him1 why did he choose him8 ,answer4 ,nothing can exceed the atrocities of the ,french ,revolution--when they carried a woman through the streets and worshiped her as the goddess of ,reason4 #cih ,question4 ,would not the mission of ,christ have been a failure had no one betrayed him8 ,answer4 ,thomas ,paine was a drunkard1 and re- canted on his death-bed1 and died a blaspheming infidel besides4 ,question4 ,is it not clear that an atonement was necessary2 and is it not equally clear that the atone- ment could not have been made unless somebody had betrayed ,christ2 and unless the ,jews had been wicked and orthodox enough to crucify him8 ,answer4 ,of course the atonement had to be made4 ,it was a part of the divine plan that ,christ should be betrayed1 and that the ,jews should be wicked enough to kill him4 ,otherwise1 the world would have been lost4 ,question4 ,suppose ,judas had understood the divine plan1 what ought he to have done8 ,should he have betrayed ,christ1 or let somebody else do it2 or should he have allowed the world to perish1 in- cluding his own soul8 ,answer4 ,if you take the ,bible away from the world1 how would it be possible to have witnesses sworn in courts2 how would it be possible to ad- minister justice8 ,question4 ,if ,christ had not been betrayed and #cii crucified1 is it true that his own mother would be in perdition to-day8 ,answer4 ,most assuredly4 ,there was but one way by which she could be saved1 and that was by the death of her son--through the blood of the atonement4 ,she was totally depraved through the sin of ,adam1 and deserved eternal death4 ,even her love for the infant ,christ was1 in the sight of ,god1-- that is to say1 of her babe1--wickedness4 ,it can not be repeated too often that there is only one way to be saved1 and that is1 to believe in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ4 ,question4 ,could ,christ have prevented the ,jews from crucifying him8 ,answer4 ,he could4 ,question4 ,if he could have saved his life and did not1 was he not guilty of suicide8 ,answer4 ,no one can understand these questions who has not read the prophecies of ,daniel1 and has not a clear conception of what is meant by the full- ness of time4 ,question4 ,what became of all the ,canaanites1 the ,egyptians1 the ,hindus1 the ,greeks and ,romans and ,chinese8 ,what became of the billions who died before the promise was made to ,abraham2 of the #djj billions and billions who never heard of the ,bible1 who never heard the name1 even1 of ,jesus ,christ-- never knew of the scheme of salvation8 ,what became of the millions and billions who lived in this hemisphere1 and of whose existence ,jehovah himself seemed perfectly ignorant8 ,answer4 ,they were undoubtedly lost4 ,god having made them1 had a right to do with them as he pleased4 ,they are probably all in hell to-day1 and the fact that they are damned1 only adds to the joy of the redeemed4 ,it is by contrast that we are able to perceive the infinite kindness with which ,god has treated us4 ,question4 ,is it not possible that something can be done for a human soul in another world as well as in this8 ,answer4 ,no2 this is the only world in which ,god even attempts to reform anybody4 ,in the other world1 nothing is done for the purpose of making anybody better4 ,here in this world1 where man lives but a few days1 is the only opportunity for moral improvement4 ,a minister can do a thou- sand times more for a soul than its creator2 and this country is much better adapted to moral growth than heaven itself4 ,a person who lived on this earth a #dja few years1 and died without having been converted1 has no hope in another world4 ,the moment he arrives at the judgment seat1 nothing remains but to damn him4 ,neither ,god1 nor the ,holy ,ghost1 nor ,jesus ,christ1 can have the least possible influence with him there4 ,question4 ,when ,god created each human being1 did he know exactly what would be his eternal fate8 ,answer4 ,most assuredly he did4 ,question4 ,did he know that hundreds and millions and billions would suffer eternal pain8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,but he gave them freedom of choice between good and evil4 ,question4 ,did he know exactly how they would use that freedom8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,question4 ,did he know that billions would use it wrong8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,question4 ,was it optional with him whether he should make such people or not8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,question4 ,had these people any option as to whether they would be made or not8 ,answer1 ,no4 #djb ,question4 ,would it not have been far better to leave them unconscious dust8 ,answer4 ,these questions show how foolish it is to judge ,god according to a human standard4 ,what to us seems just and merciful1 ,god may regard in an exactly opposite light2 and we may hereafter be developed to such a degree that we will regard the agonies of the damned as the highest possible evi- dence of the goodness and mercy of ,god4 ,question4 ,how do you account for the fact that ,god did not make himself known except to ,abra- ham and his descendants8 ,why did he fail to reveal himself to the other nations--nations that1 compared with the ,jews1 were learned1 cultivated and powerful8 ,would you regard a revelation now made to the ,esquimaux as intended for us2 and would it be a revelation of which we would be obliged to take notice8 ,answer4 ,of course1 ,god could have revealed him- self1 not only to all the great nations1 but to each individual4 ,he could have had the ,ten ,command- ments engraved on every heart and brain2 or he could have raised up prophets in every land2 but he chose1 rather1 to allow countless millions of his children to wander in the darkness and blackness of #djc ,nature2 chose1 rather1 that they should redden their hands in each other's blood2 chose1 rather1 that they should live without light1 and die without hope2 chose1 rather1 that they should suffer1 not only in this world1 but forever in the next4 ,of course we have no right to find fault with the choice of ,god4 ,question4 ,now you can tell a sinner to believe on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ2 what could a sinner have been told in ,egypt1 three thousand years ago2 and in what language would you have addressed a ,hindu in the days of ,buddha--the divine scheme at that time being a secret in the divine breast8 ,answer4 ,it is not for us to think upon these questions4 ,the moment we examine the ,christian system1 we begin to doubt4 ,in a little while1 we shall be infidels1 and shall lose the respect of those who refuse to think4 ,it is better to go with the majority4 ,these doctrines are too sacred to be touched4 ,you should be satisfied with the religion of your father and your mother4 ,you want some book on the centre-table1 in the parlor2 it is extremely handy to have a ,family ,record2 and what book1 other than the ,bible1 could a mother give a son as he leaves the old homestead8 ,question4 ,is it not wonderful that all the writers #djd of the four gospels do not give an account of the ascension of ,jesus ,christ8 ,answer4 ,this question has been answered long ago1 time and time again4 ,question4 ,perhaps it has1 but would it not be well enough to answer it once more8 ,some may not have seen the answer8 ,answer4 ,show me the hospitals that infidels have built2 show me the asylums that infidels have founded4 ,question4 ,i know you have given the usual an- swer2 but after all1 is it not singular that a miracle so wonderful as the bodily ascension of a man1 should not have been mentioned by all the writers of that man's life8 ,is it not wonderful that some of them said that he did ascend1 and others that he agreed to stay with his disciples always8 ,answer4 ,people unacquainted with the ,hebrew1 can have no conception of these things4 ,a story in plain ,english1 does not sound as it does in ,hebrew4 ,miracles seem altogether more credible1 when told in a dead language4 ,question4 ,what1 in your judgment1 became of the dead who were raised by ,christ8 ,is it not singular that they were never mentioned afterward8 #dje ,would not a man who had been raised from the dead naturally be an object of considerable interest1 especially to his friends and acquaintances8 ,and is it not also wonderful that ,christ1 after having wrought so many miracles1 cured so many lame and halt and blind1 fed so many thousands miraculously1 and after having entered ,jerusalem in triumph as a conqueror and king1 had to be pointed out by one of his own disciples who was bribed for the purpose8 ,answer4 ,of course1 all these things are exceed- ingly wonderful1 and if found in any other book1 would be absolutely incredible2 but we have no right to apply the same kind of reasoning to the ,bible that we apply to the ,koran or to the sacred books of the ,hindus4 ,for the ordinary affairs of this world1 ,god has given us reason2 but in the examination of religious questions1 we should de- pend upon credulity and faith4 ,question4 ,if ,christ came to offer himself a sacri- fice1 for the purpose of making atonement for the sins of such as might believe on him1 why did he not make this fact known to all of his disciples8 ,answer4 ,he did4 ,this was1 and is1 the gospel4 ,question4 ,how is it that ,matthew says nothing about salvation by faith1 but simply says that ,god #djf will be merciful to the merciful1 that he will forgive the forgiving1 and says not one word about the necessity of believing anything8 ,answer4 ,but you will remember that ,mark says1 in the last chapter of his gospel1 that whoso be- lieveth not shall be damned4 ,question4 ,do you admit that ,matthew says nothing on the subject8 ,answer4 ,yes1 ,i suppose ,i must4 ,question4 ,is not that passage in ,mark generally admitted to be an interpolation8 ,answer4 ,some biblical scholars say that it is4 ,question4 ,is that portion of the last chapter of ,mark found in the ,syriac version of the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,it is not4 ,question4 ,if it was necessary to believe on ,jesus ,christ1 in order to be saved1 how is it that ,matthew failed to say so8 ,answer4 ,there are more copies of the ,bible printed to-day1 than of any other book in the world1 and it is printed in more languages than any other book4 ,question4 ,do you consider it necessary to be regenerated--to be born again--in order to be saved8 #djg ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,question4 ,did ,matthew say anything on the sub- ject of regeneration8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,question4 ,did ,mark8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,question4 ,did ,luke8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,question4 ,is ,saint ,john the only one who speaks of the necessity of being born again8 ,answer4 ,he is4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,matthew1 ,mark and ,luke knew anything about the necessity of regen- eration8 ,answer4 ,of course they did4 ,question4 ,why did they fail to speak of it8 ,answer4 ,there is no civilization without the ,bible4 ,the moment you throw away the sacred ,scriptures1 you are all at sea--you are without an anchor and without a compass4 ,question4 ,you will remember that1 according to ,mark1 ,christ said to his disciples3 ,go ye into all the world1 and preach the gospel to every creature4 ,did he refer to the gospel set forth by ,mark8 ,answer4 ,of course he did4 #djh ,question4 ,well1 in the gospel set forth by ,mark1 there is not a word about regeneration1 and no word about the necessity of believing anything--ex- cept in an interpolated passage4 ,would it not seem from this1 that regeneration and a belief in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ1 are no part of the gospel8 ,answer4 ,nothing can exceed in horror the last moments of the infidel2 nothing can be more ter- rible than the death of the doubter4 ,when the glories of this world fade from the vision2 when am- bition becomes an empty name2 when wealth turns to dust in the palsied hand of death1 of what use is philosophy then8 ,who cares then for the pride of intellect8 ,in that dread moment1 man needs some- thing to rely on1 whether it is true or not4 ,question4 ,would it not have been more con- vincing if ,christ1 after his resurrection1 had shown himself to his enemies as well as to his friends8 ,would it not have greatly strengthened the evidence in the case1 if he had visited ,pilate2 had presented himself before ,caiaphas1 the high priest2 if he had again entered the temple1 and again walked the streets of ,jerusalem8 ,answer4 ,if the evidence had been complete and overwhelming1 there would have been no praise- #dji worthiness in belief2 even publicans and sinners would have believed1 if the evidence had been suffi- cient4 ,the amount of evidence required is the test of the true ,christian spirit4 ,question4 ,would it not also have been better had the ascension taken place in the presence of unbelieving thousands2 it seems such a pity to have wasted such a demonstration upon those already convinced8 ,answer4 ,these questions are the natural fruit of the carnal mind1 and can be accounted for only by the doctrine of total depravity4 ,nothing has given the church more trouble than just such questions4 ,unholy curiosity1 a disposition to pry into the divine mysteries1 a desire to know1 to investigate1 to explain --in short1 to understand1 are all evidences of a re- probate mind4 ,question4 ,how can we account for the fact that ,matthew alone speaks of the wise men of the ,east coming with gifts to the infant ,christ2 that he alone speaks of the little babes being killed by ,herod8 ,is it possible that the other writers never heard of these things8 ,answer4 ,nobody can get any good out of the ,bible by reading it in a critical spirit4 ,the contra- #daj dictions and discrepancies are only apparent1 and melt away before the light of faith4 ,that which in other books would be absolute and palpable contradiction1 is1 in the ,bible1 when spiritually discerned1 a perfect and beautiful harmony4 ,my own opinion is1 that seeming contradictions are in the ,bible for the pur- pose of testing and strengthening the faith of ,chris- tians1 and for the further purpose of ensnaring infidels1 that they might believe a lie and be damned4 ,question4 ,is it possible that a good ,god would take pains to deceive his children8 ,answer4 ,the ,bible is filled with instances of that kind1 and all orthodox ministers now know that fossil animals--that is1 representations of animals in stone1 were placed in the rocks on purpose to mis- lead men like ,darwin and ,humboldt1 ,huxley and ,tyndall4 ,it is also now known that ,god1 for the purpose of misleading the so-called men of science1 had hairy elephants preserved in ice1 made stomachs for them1 and allowed twigs of trees to be found in these stomachs1 when1 as a matter of fact1 no such elephants ever lived or ever died4 ,these men who are endeavoring to overturn the ,scriptures with the lever of science will find that they have been de- ceived4 ,through all eternity they will regret their #daa philosophy4 ,they will wish1 in the next world1 that they had thrown away geology and physiology and all other ologies except theology4 ,the time is coming when ,jehovah will mock at their fears and laugh at their calamity4 ,question4 ,if ,joseph was not the father of ,christ1 why was his genealogy given to show that ,christ was of the blood of ,david2 why would not the genealogy of any other ,jew have done as well8 ,answer4 ,that objection was raised and answered hundreds of years ago4 ,question4 ,if they wanted to show that ,christ was of the blood of ,david1 why did they not give the gene- alogy of his mother if ,joseph was not his father8 ,answer4 ,that objection was answered hundreds of years ago4 ,question4 ,how was it answered8 ,answer4 ,when ,voltaire was dying1 he sent for a priest4 ,question4 ,how does it happen that the two gene- alogies given do not agree8 ,answer4 ,perhaps they were written by different persons4 ,question4 ,were both these persons inspired by the same ,god8 #dab ,answer4 ,of course4 ,question4 ,why were the miracles recorded in the ,new ,testament performed8 ,answer4 ,the miracles were the evidence relied on to prove the supernatural origin and the divine mission of ,jesus ,christ4 ,question4 ,aside from the miracles1 is there any evidence to show the supernatural origin or character of ,jesus ,christ8 ,answer4 ,some have considered that his moral precepts are sufficient1 of themselves1 to show that he was divine4 ,question4 ,had all of his moral precepts been taught before he lived8 ,answer4 ,the same things had been said1 but they did not have the same meaning4 ,question4 ,does the fact that ,buddha taught the same tend to show that he was of divine origin8 ,answer4 ,certainly not4 ,the rules of evidence applicable to the ,bible are not applicable to other books4 ,we examine other books in the light of reason2 the ,bible is the only exception4 ,so1 we should not judge of ,christ as we do of any other man4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,christ wrought #dac many of his miracles because he was good1 charitable1 and filled with pity8 ,answer4 ,certainly ,question4 ,has he as much power now as he had when on earth8 ,answer4 ,most assuredly4 ,question4 ,is he as charitable and pitiful now1 as he was then8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,question4 ,why does he not now cure the lame and the halt and the blind8 ,answer4 ,it is well known that1 when ,julian the ,apostate was dying1 catching some of his own blood in his hand and throwing it into the air he exclaimed3 ,galileean1 thou hast conquered6 ,question4 ,do you consider it our duty to love our neighbor8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,question4 ,is virtue the same in all worlds8 ,answer4 ,most assuredly4 ,question4 ,are we under obligation to render good for evil1 and to pray for those who despitefully use us8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,question4 ,will ,christians in heaven love their neighbors8 #dad ,answer4 ,y es2 if their neighbors are not in hell4 ,question4 ,do good ,christians pity sinners in this world8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,question4 ,why8 ,answer4 ,because they regard them as being in great danger of the eternal wrath of ,god4 ,question4 ,after these sinners have died1 and been sent to hell1 will the ,christians in heaven then pity them8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,angels have no pity4 ,question4 ,if we are under obligation to love our enemies1 is not ,god under obligation to love his8 ,if we forgive our enemies1 ought not ,god to forgive his8 ,if we forgive those who injure us1 ought not ,god to forgive those who have not injured him8 ,answer4 ,god made us1 and he has therefore the right to do with us as he pleases4 ,justice demands that he should damn all of us1 and the few that he will save will be saved through mercy and without the slightest respect to anything they may have done themselves4 ,such is the justice of ,god1 that those in hell will have no right to complain1 and those in heaven will have no right to be there4 ,hell is justice1 and salvation is charity4 #dae ,question4 ,do you consider it possible for a law to be jusdy satisfied by the punishment of an innocent person8 ,answer4 ,such is the scheme of the atonement4 ,as man is held responsible for the sin of ,adam1 so he will be credited with the virtues of ,christ2 and you can readily see that one is exactly as reasonable as the other4 ,question4 ,suppose a man honestly reads the ,new ,testament1 and honestly concludes that it is not an inspired book2 suppose he honestly makes up his mind that the miracles are not true2 that the devil never really carried ,christ to the pinnacle of the temple2 that devils were really never cast out of a man and allowed to take refuge in swine2--,i say1 suppose that he is honestly convinced that these things are not true1 what ought he to say8 ,answer4 ,he ought to say nothing4 ,question4 ,suppose that the same man should read the ,koran1 and come to the conclusion that it is not an inspired book2 what ought he to say8 ,answer4 ,he ought to say that it is not inspired2 his fellow-men are entitled to his honest opinion1 and it is his duty to do what he can do to destroy a per- nicious superstition4 #daf ,question4 ,suppose then1 that a reader of the ,bible1 having become convinced that it is not inspired-- honestly convinced--says nothing--keeps his con- clusion absolutely to himself1 and suppose he dies in that belief1 can he be saved8 ,answer4 ,certainly not4 ,question4 ,has the honesty of his belief anything to do with his future condition8 ,answer4 ,nothing whatever41 ,question4 ,suppose that he tried to believe1 that he hated to disagree with his friends1 and with his parents1 but that in spite of himself he was forced to the conclusion that the ,bible is not the inspired word of ,god1 would he then deserve eternal punishment8 ,answer4 ,certainly he would4 ,question4 ,can a man control his belief8 ,answer4 ,he cannot--except as to the ,bible4 ,question4 ,do you consider it just in ,god to create a man who cannot believe the ,bible1 and then damn him because he does not8 ,answer4 ,such is my belief4 ,question4 ,is it your candid opinion that a man who does not believe the ,bible should keep his belief a secret from his fellow-men8 ,answer4 ,it is4 #dag ,question4 ,how do ,i know that you believe the ,bible8 ,you have told me that if you did not be- lieve it1 you would not tell me8 ,answer4 ,there is no way for you to ascertain1 except by taking my word for it4 ,question4 ,what will be the fate of a man who does not believe it1 and yet pretends to believe it8 ,answer4 ,he will be damned4 ,question4 ,then hypocrisy will not save him8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,question4 ,and if he does not believe it1 and ad- mits that he does not believe it1 then his honesty will not save him8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,honesty on the wrong side is no better than hypocrisy on the right side4 ,question4 ,do we know who wrote the gospels8 ,answer4 ,yes2 we do4 ,question4 ,are we absolutely sure who wrote them8 ,answer4 ,of course2 we have the evidence as it has come to us through the ,catholic ,church4 ,question4 ,can we rely upon the ,catholic ,church now8 ,answer4 ,no2 assuredly no6 ,but we have the testimony of ,polycarp and ,irenaeus and ,clement1 #dah and others of the early fathers1 together with that of the ,christian historian1 ,eusebius4 ,question4 ,what do we really know about ,polycarp8 ,answer4 ,we know that he suffered martyrdom un- der ,marcus ,aurelius1 and that for quite a time the fire refused to burn his body1 the flames arching over him1 leaving him in a kind of fiery tent2 and we also know that from his body came a fragrance like frankincense1 and that the ,pagans were so exasperated at seeing the miracle1 that one of them thrust a sword through the body of ,polycarp2 that the blood flowed out and extinguished the flames and that out of the wound flew the soul of the martyr in the form of a dove4 ,question4 ,is that all we know about ,polycarp8 ,answer4 ,yes1 with the exception of a few more like incidents4 ,question4 ,do we know that ,polycarp ever met ,st4 ,john8 ,answer4 ,yes2 ,eusebius says so4 ,question4 ,are we absolutely certain that he ever lived8 ,answer4 ,yes1 or ,eusebius could not have written about him4 ,question4 ,do we know anything of the character of ,eusebius8 #dai ,answer4 ,yes2 we know that he was untruthful only when he wished to do good4 ,but ,god can use even the dishonest4 ,other books have to be sub- stantiated by truthful men1 but such is the power of ,god1 that he can establish the inspiration of the ,bible by the most untruthful witnesses4 ,if ,god's witnesses were honest1 anybody could believe1 and what be- comes of faith1 one of the greatest virtues8 ,question4 ,is the ,new ,testament now the same as it was in the days of the early fathers8 ,answer4 ,certainly not4 ,many books now thrown out1 and not esteemed of divine origin1 were esteemed divine by ,polycarp and ,irenaeus and ,clement and many of the early churches4 ,these books are now called apocryphal4 ,question4 ,have you not the same witnesses in favor of their authenticity1 that you have in favor of the gospels8 ,answer4 ,precisely the same4 ,except that they were thrown out4 ,question4 ,why were they thrown out8 ,answer4 ,because the ,catholic ,church did not es- teem them inspired4 ,question4 ,did the ,catholics decide for us which are the true gospels and which are the true epistles8 #dbj ,answer4 ,yes4 ,the ,catholic ,church was then the only church1 and consequently must have been the true church4 ,question4 ,how did the ,catholic ,church select the true books8 ,answer4 ,councils were called1 and votes were taken1 very much as we now pass resolutions in political meetings4 ,question4 ,was the ,catholic ,church infallible then8 ,answer4 ,it was then1 but it is not now4 ,question4 ,if the ,catholic ,church at that time had thrown out the book of ,revelation1 would it now be our duty to believe that book to have been inspired8 ,answer4 ,no1 ,i suppose not4 ,question4 ,is it not true that some of these books were adopted by exceedingly small majorities8 ,answer4 ,it is4 ,question4 ,if the ,epistle to the ,hebrews and to the ,romans1 and the book of ,revelation had been thrown out1 could a man now be saved who honestly believes the rest of the books8 ,answer4 ,this is doubtful4 ,question4 ,were the men who picked out the in- spired books inspired8 #dba ,answer4 ,we cannot tell1 but the probability is that they were4 ,question4 ,do we know that they picked out the right ones8 ,answer4 ,well1 not exactly1 but we believe that they did4 ,question4 ,are we certain that some of the books that were thrown out were not inspired8 ,answer4 ,well1 the only way to tell is to read them carefully4 ,question4 ,if upon reading these apocryphal books a man concludes that they are not inspired1 will he be damned for that reason8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,certainly not4 ,question4 ,if he concludes that some of them are inspired1 and believes them1 will he then be damned for that belief8 ,answer4 ,oh1 no6 ,nobody is ever damned for believing too much4 ,question4 ,does the fact that the books now com- prising the ,new ,testament were picked out by the ,catholic ,church prevent their being examined now by an honest man1 as they were examined at the time they were picked out8 #dbb ,answer4 ,no2 not if the man comes to the con- clusion that they are inspired4 ,question4 ,does the fact that the ,catholic ,church picked them out and declared them to be inspired1 render it a crime to examine them precisely as you would examine the books that the ,catholic ,church threw out and declared were not inspired8 ,answer4 ,i think it does4 ,question4 ,at the time the council was held in which it was determined which of the books of the ,new ,testament are inspired1 a respectable minority voted against some that were finally decided to be inspired4 ,if they were honest in the vote they gave1 and died without changing their opinions1 are they now in hell8 ,answer4 ,well1 they ought to be4 ,question4 ,if those who voted to leave the book of ,revelation out of the canon1 and the gospel of ,saint ,john out of the canon1 believed honestly that these were not inspired books1 how should they have voted8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i suppose a man ought to vote as he honestly believes--except in matters of religion4 ,question4 ,if the ,catholic ,church was not infal- lible1 is the question still open as to what books are1 and what are not1 inspired8 #dbc ,answer4 ,i suppose the question is still open-- but it would be dangerous to decide it4 ,question4 ,if1 then1 ,i examine all the books again1 and come to the conclusion that some that were thrown out were inspired1 and some that were ac- cepted were not inspired1 ought ,i to say so8 ,answer4 ,not if it is contrary to the faith of your father1 or calculated to interfere with your own po- litical prospects4 ,question4 ,is it as great a sin to admit into the ,bible books that are uninspired as to reject those that are inspired8 ,answer4 ,well1 it is a crime to reject an inspired book1 no matter how unsatisfactory the evidence is for its inspiration1 but it is not a crime to receive an uninspired book4 ,god damns nobody for believing too much4 ,an excess of credulity is simply to err in the direction of salvation4 ,question4 ,suppose a man disbelieves in the inspira- tion of the ,new ,testament--believes it to be entirely the work of uninspired men2 and suppose he also be- lieves--but not from any evidence obtained in the ,new ,testament--that ,jesus ,christ was the son of ,god1 and that he made atonement for his soul1 can he then be saved without a belief in the inspiration of the ,bible8 #dbd ,answer4 ,this has not yet been decided by our church1 and ,i do not wish to venture an opinion4 ,question4 ,suppose a man denies the inspiration of the ,scriptures2 suppose that he also denies the divinity of ,jesus ,christ2 and suppose1 further1 that he acts precisely as ,christ is said to have acted2 suppose he loves his enemies1 prays for those who despitefully use him1 and does all the good he pos- sibly can1 is it your opinion that such a man will be saved8 ,answer4 ,no1 sir4 ,there is none other name given under heaven and among men1 whereby a sinner can be saved but the name of ,christ4 ,question4 ,then it is your opinion that ,god would save a murderer who believed in ,christ1 and would damn another man1 exactly like ,christ1 who failed to believe in him8 ,answer4 ,yes2 because we have the blessed promise that1 out of ,christ1 our ,god is a consuming fire4 ,question4 ,suppose a man read the ,bible care- fully and honestly1 and was not quite convinced that it was true1 and that while examining the subject1 he died2 what then8 #dbe ,answer4 ,i do not believe that ,god would allow him to examine the matter in another world1 or to make up his mind in heaven4 ,of course1 he would eternally perish4 ,question4 ,could ,christ now furnish evidence enough to convince every human being of the truth of the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,of course he could1 because he is in- finite4 ,question4 ,are any miracles performed now8 ,answer4 ,oh1 no6 ,question4 ,have we any testimony1 except human testimony1 to substantiate any miracle8 ,answer4 ,only human testimony4 ,question4 ,do all men give the same force to the same evidence8 ,answer4 ,by no means4 ,question4 ,have all honest men who have exam- ined the ,bible believed it to be inspired8 ,answer4 ,of course they have4 ,infidels are not honest4 ,question4 ,could any additional evidence have been furnished8 ,answer4 ,with perfect ease4 ,question4 ,would ,god allow a soul to suffer #dbf eternal agony rather than furnish evidence of the truth of his ,bible8 ,answer4 ,god has furnished plenty of evidence1 and altogether more than was really necessary4 ,we should read the ,bible in a believing spirit4 ,question4 ,are all parts of the inspired books equally true8 ,answer4 ,necessarily4 ,question4 ,according to ,saint ,matthew1 ,god promises to forgive all who will forgive others2 not one word is said about believing in ,christ1 or believ- ing in the miracles1 or in any ,bible2 did ,matthew tell the truth8 ,answer4 ,the ,bible must be taken as a whole2 and if other conditions are added somewhere else1 then you must comply with those other conditions4 ,matthew may not have stated all the conditions4 ,question4 ,i find in another part of the ,new ,testament1 that a young man came to ,christ and asked him what was necessary for him to do in order that he might inherit eternal life4 ,christ did not tell him that he must believe the ,bible1 or that he must believe in him1 or that he must keep the ,sabbath- day2 was ,christ honest with that young man8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i suppose he was4 #dbg ,question4 ,you will also recollect that ,zaccheus said to ,christ1 that where he had wronged any man he had made restitution1 and further1 that half his goods he had given to the poor2 and you will re- member that ,christ said to ,zaccheus3 ,this day hath salvation come to thy house4 ,why did not ,christ tell ,zaccheus that he must be born again2 that he must believe on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ8 ,answer4 ,of course there are mysteries in our holy religion that only those who have been born again can understand4 ,you must remember that the carnal mind is enmity with ,god4 ,question4 ,is it not strange that ,christ1 in his ,ser- mon on the ,mount1 did not speak of regeneration1 or of the scheme of salvation8 ,answer4 ,well1 it may be4 ,question4 ,can a man be saved now by living exactly in accordance with the ,sermon on the ,mount8 ,answer4 ,he can not4 ,question4 ,would then a man1 by following the course of conduct prescribed by ,christ in the ,sermon on the ,mount1 lose his soul8 ,answer4 ,he most certainly would1 because there is not one word in the ,sermon on the ,mount about believing on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ2 not one word #dbh about believing in the ,bible2 not one word about the atonement2 not one word about regeneration4 ,so that1 if the ,presbyterian ,church is right1 it is abso- lutely certain that a man might follow the teachings of the ,sermon on the ,mount1 and live in accordance with its every word1 and yet deserve and receive the eternal condemnation of ,god4 ,but we must remem- ber that the ,sermon on the ,mount was preached be- fore ,christianity existed4 ,christ was talking to ,jews4 ,question4 ,did ,christ write anything himself1 in the ,new ,testament8 ,answer4 ,not a word4 ,question4 ,did he tell any of his disciples to write any of his words8 ,answer4 ,there is no account of it1 if he did4 ,question4 ,do we know whether any of the dis- ciples wrote anything8 ,answer4 ,of course they did4 ,question4 ,how do you know8 ,answer4 ,because the gospels bear their names4 ,question4 ,are you satisfied that ,christ was abso- lutely ,god8 ,answer4 ,of course he was4 ,we believe that ,christ and ,god and the ,holy ,ghost are all the same1 that the three form one1 and that each one is three4 #dbi ,question4 ,was ,christ the ,god of the universe at the time of his birth8 ,answer4 ,he certainly was4 ,question4 ,was he the infinite ,god1 creator and controller of the entire universe1 before he was born8 ,answer4 ,of course he was4 ,this is the mystery of ,god manifest in the flesh4 ,the infidels have pretended that he was like any other child1 and was in fact supported by ,nature instead of being the supporter of ,nature4 ,they have insisted that like other children1 he had to be cared for by his mother4 ,of course he appeared to be cared for by his mother4 ,it was a part of the plan that in all respects he should appear to be like other children4 ,question4 ,did he know just as much before he was born as after8 ,answer4 ,if he was ,god of course he did4 ,question4 ,how do you account for the fact that ,saint ,luke tells us1 in the last verse of the second chapter of his gospel1 that ,jesus increased in wis- dom and stature8 ,answer4 ,that ,i presume is a figure of speech2 because1 if he was ,god1 he certainly could not have increased in wisdom4 ,the physical part of him could #dcj increase in stature1 but the intellectual part must have been infinite all the time4 ,question4 ,do you think that ,luke was mistaken8 ,answer4 ,no2 ,i believe what ,luke said4 ,if it appears untrue1 or impossible1 then ,i know that it is figurative or symbolical4 ,question4 ,did ,i understand you to say that ,christ was actually ,god8 ,answer4 ,of course he was4 ,question4 ,then why did ,luke say in the same verse of the same chapter that ,jesus increased in favor with ,god8 ,answer4 ,i dare you to go into a room by your- self and read the fourteenth chapter of ,saint ,john6 ,question4 ,is it necessary to understand the ,bible in order to be saved8 ,answer4 ,certainly not2 it is only necessary that you believe it4 ,question4 ,is it necessary to believe all the miracles8 ,answer4 ,it may not be necessary1 but as it is im- possible to tell which ones can safely be left out1 you had better believe them all4 ,question4 ,then you regard belief as the safe way8 #dca ,answer4 ,of course it is better to be fooled in this world than to be damned in the next4 ,question4 ,do you think that there are any cruel- ties on ,god's part recorded in the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,at first flush1 many things done by ,god himself1 as well as by his prophets1 appear to be cruel2 but if we examine them closely1 we will find them to be exactly the opposite4 ,question4 ,how do you explain the story of ,elisha and the children1--where the two she-bears destroyed forty-two children on account of their impudence8 ,answer4 ,this miracle1 in my judgment1 estab- lishes two things3 #a4 ,that children should be polite to ministers1 and #b4 ,that ,god is kind to animals-- giving them their meat in due season4 ,these bears have been great educators--they are the foundation of the respect entertained by the young for theologians4 ,no child ever sees a minister now without thinking of a bear4 ,question4 ,what do you think of the story of ,daniel--you no doubt remember it8 ,some men told the king that ,daniel was praying contrary to law1 and thereupon ,daniel was cast into a den of lions2 but the lions could not touch him1 their mouths having been shut by angels4 ,the next #dcb morning1 the king1 finding that ,daniel was still intact1 had him taken out2 and then1 for the purpose of gratifying ,daniels ,god1 the king had all the men who had made the complaint against ,daniel1 and their wives and their little children1 brought and cast into the lions' den4 ,according to the account1 the lions were so hungry that they caught these wives and children as they dropped1 and broke all their bones in pieces before they had even touched the ground4 ,is it not wonderful that ,god failed to pro- tect these innocent wives and children8 ,answer4 ,these wives and children were heathen2 they were totally depraved4 ,and besides1 they were used as witnesses4 ,the fact that they were devoured with such quickness shows that the lions were hungry4 ,had it not been for this1 infidels would have accounted for the safety of ,daniel by saying that the lions had been fed4 ,question4 ,do you believe that ,shadrach1 ,meshach and ,abednego were cast into a burning fiery furnace heated one seven times hotter than it was wont to be heated1 and that they had on their coats1 their hosen and their hats1 and that when they came out not a hair of their heads was singed1 nor was the smell of fire upon their garments8 #dcc ,answer4 ,the evidence of this miracle is exceed- ingly satisfactory4 ,it resulted in the conversion of ,nebuchadnezzar4 ,question4 ,how do you know he was converted8 ,answer4 ,because immediately after the miracle the king issued a decree that every people1 nation and language that spoke anything amiss against the ,god of ,shadrach and ,company1 should be cut in pieces4 ,this decree shows that he had become a true disciple and worshiper of ,jehovah4 ,question4 ,if ,god in those days preserved from the fury of the fire men who were true to him and would not deny his name1 why is it that he has failed to protect thousands of martyrs since that time8 ,answer4 ,this is one of the divine mysteries4 ,god has in many instances allowed his enemies to kill his friends4 ,i suppose this was allowed for the good of his enemies1 that the heroism of the mar- tyrs might convert them4 ,question4 ,do you believe all the miracles8 ,answer4 ,i believe them all1 because ,i believe the ,bible to be inspired4 ,question4 ,what makes you think it is inspired8 ,answer4 ,i have never seen anybody who knew it was not2 besides1 my father and mother believed it4 #dcd ,question4 ,have you any other reasons for be- lieving it to be inspired8 ,answer4 ,yes2 there are more copies of the ,bible printed than of any other book2 and it is printed in more languages4 ,and besides1 it would be impossible to get along without it4 ,question4 ,why could we not get along without it8 ,answer4 ,we would have nothing to swear wit- nesses by2 no book in which to keep the family record2 nothing for the centre-table1 and nothing for a mother to give her son4 ,no nation can be civilized without the ,bible4 ,question4 ,did ,god always know that a ,bible was necessary to civilize a country8 ,answer4 ,certainly he did4 ,question4 ,why did he not give a ,bible to the ,egyptians1 the ,hindus1 the ,greeks and the ,romans8 ,answer4 ,it is astonishing what perfect fools in- fidels are4 ,question4 ,why do you call infidels fools8 ,answer4 ,because ,i find in the fifth chapter of the gospel according to ,matthew the following3 ,who- soever shall say ',thou fool6' shall be in danger of hell fire4 #dce ,question4 ,have ,i the right to read the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,you not only have the right1 but it is your duty4 ,question4 ,in reading the ,bible the words make certain impressions on my mind4 ,these impressions depend upon my brain1--upon my intelligence4 ,is not this true8 ,answer4 ,of course1 when you read the ,bible1 im- pressions are made upon your mind4 ,question4 ,can ,i control these impressions8 ,answer4 ,i do not think you can1 as long as you remain in a sinful state4 ,question4 ,how am ,i to get out of this sinful state8 ,answer4 ,you must believe on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ1 and you must read the ,bible in a prayerful spirit and with a believing heart4 ,question4 ,suppose that doubts force themselves upon my mind8 ,answer4 ,then you will know that you are a sin- ner1 and that you are depraved4 ,question4 ,if ,i have the right to read the ,bible1 have ,i the right to try to understand it8 ,answer4 ,most assuredly4 ,question4 ,do you admit that ,i have the right to reason about it and to investigate it8 #dcf ,answer4 ,yes2 ,i admit that4 ,of course you can- not help reasoning about what you read4 ,question4 ,does the right to read a book include the right to give your opinion as to the truth of what the book contains8 ,answer4 ,of course1--if the book is not inspired4 ,infidels hate the ,bible because it is inspired1 and ,christians know that it is inspired because infidels say that it is not4 ,question4 ,have ,i the right to decide for myself whether or not the book is inspired8 ,answer4 ,you have no right to deny the truth of ,god's ,holy ,word4 ,question4 ,is ,god the author of all books8 ,answer4 ,certainly not4 ,question4 ,have ,i the right to say that ,god did not write the ,koran8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,question4 ,why8 ,answer4 ,because the ,koran was written by an impostor4 ,question4 ,how do you know8 ,answer4 ,my reason tells me so4 ,question4 ,have you the right to be guided by your reason8 #dcg ,answer4 ,i must be4 ,question4 ,have you the same right to follow your reason after reading the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,the ,bible is the standard of reason4 ,the ,bible is not to be judged or corrected by your reason4 ,your reason is to be weighed and measured by the ,bible4 ,the ,bible is different from other books and must not be read in the same critical spirit1 nor judged by the same standard4 ,question4 ,what did ,god give us reason for8 ,answer4 ,so that we might investigate other religions1 and examine other so-called sacred books4 ,question4 ,if a man honestly thinks that the ,bible is not inspired1 what should he say8 ,answer4 ,he should admit that he is mistaken4 ,question4 ,when he thinks he is right8 ,answer4 ,yes4 ,the ,bible is different from other books4 ,it is the master of reason4 ,you read the ,bible1 not to see if that is wrong1 but to see whether your reason is right4 ,it is the only book about which a man has no right to reason4 ,he must believe4 ,the ,bible is addressed1 not to the reason1 but to the ears3 ,he that hath ears to hear1 let him hear4 ,question4 ,do you think we have the right to tell #dch what the ,bible means--what ideas ,god intended to convey1 or has conveyed to us1 through the medium of the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,well1 ,i suppose you have that right4 ,yes1 that must be your duty4 ,you certainly ought to tell others what ,god has said to you4 ,question4 ,do all men get the same ideas from the ,bible8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,question4 ,how do you account for that8 ,answer4 ,because all men are not alike2 they differ in intellect1 in education1 and in experience4 ,question4 ,who has the right to decide as to the real ideas that ,god intended to convey8 ,answer4 ,i am a ,protestant1 and believe in the right of private judgment4 ,whoever does not is a ,catholic4 ,each man must be his own judge1 but ,god will hold him responsible4 ,question4 ,does ,god believe in the right of private judgment8 ,answer4 ,of course he does4 ,question4 ,is he willing that ,i should exercise my judgment in deciding whether the ,bible is inspired or not8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,he believes in the exercise of #dci private judgment only in the examination and rejec- tion of other books than the ,bible4 ,question4 ,is he a ,catholic8 ,answer4 ,i cannot answer blasphemy6 ,let me tell you that ,god will laugh at your calamity1 and will mock when your fear cometh4 ,you will be accursed4 ,question4 ,why do you curse infidels8 ,answer4 ,because ,i am a ,christian4 ,question4 ,did not ,christ say that we ought to bless those who curse us1 and that we should love our enemies8 ,answer4 ,yes1 but he cursed the ,pharisees and called them hypocrites and vipers4 ,question4 ,how do you account for that8 ,answer4 ,it simply shows the difference between theory and practice4 ,question4 ,what do you consider the best way to answer infidels4 ,answer4 ,the old way is the best4 ,you should say that their arguments are ancient1 and have been answered over and over again4 ,if this does not satisfy your hearers1 then you should attack the character of the infidel--then that of his parents-- then that of his children4 #ddj ,question4 ,suppose that the infidel is a good man1 how will you answer him then8 ,answer4 ,but an infidel cannot be a good man4 ,even if he is1 it is better that he should lose his reputation1 than that thousands should lose their souls4 ,we know that all infidels are vile and infa- mous4 ,we may not have the evidence1 but we know that it exists4 ,question4 ,how should infidels be treated8 ,should ,christians try to convert them8 ,answer4 ,christians should have nothing to do with infidels4 ,it is not safe even to converse with them4 ,they are always talking about reason1 and facts1 and experience4 ,they are filled with sophistry and should be avoided4 ,question4 ,should ,christians pray for the con- version of infidels8 ,answer4 ,yes2 but such prayers should be made in public and the name of the infidel should be given and his vile and hideous heart portrayed so that the young may be warned4 ,question4 ,whom do you regard as infidels8 ,answer4 ,the scientists--the geologists1 the as- tronomers1 the naturalists1 the philosophers4 ,no one can overestimate the evil that has been wrought #dda by ,laplace1 ,humboldt1 ,darwin1 ,huxley1 ,haeckel1 ,renan1 ,emerson1 ,strauss1 ,bikhner1 ,tyndall1 and their wretched followers4 ,these men pretended to know more than ,moses and the prophets4 ,they were dogs baying at the moon4 ,they were wolves and fools4 ,they tried to assassinate ,god1 and worse than all1 they actually laughed at the clergy1 ,question4 ,do you think they did1 and are doing great harm8 ,answer4 ,certainly4 ,of what use are all the sciences1 if you lose your own soul8 ,people in hell will care nothing about education4 ,the rich man said nothing about science1 he wanted water4 ,neither will they care about books and theories in heaven4 ,if a man is perfectly happy1 it makes no difference how ignorant he is4 ,question4 ,but how can he answer these scientists8 ,answer4 ,well1 my advice is to let their argu- ments alone4 ,of course1 you will deny all their facts2 but the most effective way is to attack their character4 ,question4 ,but suppose they are good men1-- what then8 ,answer4 ,the better they are1 the worse they are4 #ddb ,we cannot admit that the infidel is really good4 ,he may appear to be good1 and it is our duty to strip the mask of appearance from the face of unbelief4 ,if a man is not a ,christian1 he is totally depraved1 and why should we hesitate to make a misstatement about a man whom ,god is going to make miserable forever8 ,question4 ,are we not commanded to love our enemies8 ,answer4 ,yes1 but not the enemies of ,god4 ,question4 ,do you fear the final triumph of infi- delity8 ,answer4 ,no4 ,we have no fear4 ,we believe that the ,bible can be revised often enough to agree with anything that may really be necessary to the preservation of the church4 ,we can always rely upon revision4 ,let me tell you that the ,bible is the most peculiar of books4 ,at the time ,god inspired his holy prophets to write it1 he knew exactly what the discoveries and demonstrations of the future would be1 and he wrote his ,bible in such a way that the words could always be interpreted in accordance with the intelligence of each age1 and so that the words used are capable of several meanings1 so that1 no matter what may hereafter be discovered1 the ,bible #ddc will be found to agree with it1--for the reason that the knowledge of ,hebrew will grow in the exact proportion that discoveries are made in other depart- ments of knowledge4 ,you will therefore see1 that all efforts of infidelity to destroy the ,bible will simply result in giving a better translation4 ,question4 ,what do you consider is the strongest argument in favor of the inspiration of the ,scrip- tures8 ,answer4 ,the dying words of ,christians4 ,question4 ,what do you consider the strongest argument against the truth of infidelity8 ,answer4 ,the dying words of infidels4 ,you know how terrible were the death-bed scenes of ,hume1 ,voltaire1 ,paine and ,hobbes1 as described by hundreds of persons who were not present2 while all ,christians have died with the utmost serenity1 and with their last words have testified to the sustaining power of faith in the goodness of ,god4 ,question4 ,what were the last words of ,jesus ,christ8 ,answer4 ,my ,god1 my ,god1 why hast thou for- saken me8 ,a ,,vindication ,,of ,,thomas ,,paine4 ,to argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason1 is like administering medicine to the dead4--,thomas ,paine4 ,peoria1 ,october #h1 #ahgg4 ,to the ,editor of the ,n ,y4 ,observer3 ,sir3 ,last ,june in ,san ,francisco1 ,i offered a thousand dollars in gold--not as a wager1 but as a gift--to any one who would substantiate the absurd story that ,thomas ,paine died in agony and fear1 frightened by the clanking chains of devils4 ,i also offered the same amount to any minister who would prove that ,voltaire did not pass away as serenely as the coming of the dawn4 ,afterward ,i was informed that you had accepted the offer1 and had called upon me to deposit the money4 ,acting upon this inform- ation1 ,i sent you the following letter3 ,peoria1 ,ill41 ,august #cast1 #ahgg4 ,to the ,editor of the ,new ,york ,observer3 ,i have been informed that you accepted1 in your paper1 an offer made by me to any clergyman in ,san ,francisco4 ,that offer was1 that ,i would pay #ddh one thousand dollars in gold to any minister in that city who would prove that ,thomas ,paine died in terror because of religious opinions he had ex- pressed1 or that ,voltaire did not pass away serenely as the coming of the dawn4 ,for many years religious journals and ministers have been circulating certain pretended accounts of the frightful agonies endured by ,paine and ,voltaire when dying2 that these great men at the moment of death were terrified because they had given their honest opinions upon the subject of religion to their fellow-men4 ,the imagination of the religious world has been taxed to the utmost in inventing absurd and infamous accounts of the last moments of these intellectual giants4 ,every ,sunday school paper1 thousands of idiotic tracts1 and countless stupidities called sermons1 have been filled with these calumnies4 ,paine and ,voltaire both believed in ,god--both hoped for immortality--both believed in special providence4 ,but both denied the inspiration of the ,scriptures--both denied the divinity of ,jesus ,christ4 ,while theologians most cheerfully admit that most murderers die without fear1 they deny the possibility of any man who has expressed his disbelief in the inspiration of the ,bible dying except in an agony of terror4 ,these stories are used in revivals and in #ddi ,sunday schools1 and have long been considered of great value4 ,i am anxious that these slanders shall cease4 ,i am desirous of seeing justice done1 even at this late day1 to the dead4 ,for the purpose of ascertaining the evidence upon which these death-bed accounts really rest1 ,i make to you the following proposition3-- ,first4--,as to ,thomas ,paine3 ,i will deposit with the ,first ,national ,bank of ,peoria1 ,illinois1 one thou- sand dollars in gold1 upon the following conditions3 ,this money shall be subject to your order when you shall1 in the manner hereinafter provided1 sub- stantiate that ,thomas ,paine admitted the ,bible to be an inspired book1 or that he recanted his ,infidel opinions--or that he died regretting that he had dis- believed the ,bible--or that he died calling upon ,jesus ,christ in any religious sense whatever4 ,in order that a tribunal may be created to try this question1 you may select one man1 ,i will select another1 and the two thus chosen shall select a third1 and any two of the three may decide the matter4 ,as there will be certain costs and expenditures on both sides1 such costs and expenditures shall be paid by the defeated party4 ,in addition to the one thousand dollars in gold1 ,i #dej will deposit a bond with good and sufficient security in the sum of two thousand dollars1 conditioned for the payment of all costs in case ,i am defeated4 ,i shall require of you a like bond4 ,from the date of accepting this offer you may have ninety days to collect and present your testi- mony1 giving me notice of time and place of taking depositions4 ,i shall have a like time to take evi- dence upon my side1 giving you like notice1 and you shall then have thirty days to take further testimony in reply to what ,i may offer4 ,the case shall then be argued before the persons chosen2 and their decisions shall be final as to us4 ,if the arbitrator chosen by me shall die1 ,i shall have the right to choose another4 ,you shall have the same right4 ,if the third one1 chosen by our two1 shall die1 the two shall choose another2 and all va- cancies1 from whatever cause1 shall be filled upon the same principle4 ,the arbitrators shall sit when and where a major- ity shall determine1 and shall have full power to pass upon all questions arising as to competency of evidence1 and upon all subjects4 ,second4--,as to ,voltaire3 ,i make the same prop- osition1 if you will substantiate that ,voltaire died expressing remorse or showing in any way that he #dea was in mental agony because he had attacked ,catholi- cism--or because he had denied the inspiration of the ,bible--or because he had denied the divinity of ,christ4 ,i make these propositions because ,i want you to stop slandering the dead4 ,if the propositions do not suit you in any particu- lar1 please state your objections1 and ,i will modify them in any way consistent with the object in view4 ,if ,paine and ,voltaire died filled with childish and silly fear1 ,i want to know it1 and ,i want the world to know it4 ,on the other hand1 if the believers in superstition have made and circulated these cruel slanders concerning the mighty dead1 ,i want the world to know that4 ,as soon as you notify me of the acceptance of these propositions ,i will send you the certificate of the bank that the money has been deposited upon the foregoing conditions1 together with copies of bonds for costs4 ,yours truly1 ,r4 ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,in your paper of ,september #bg1 #ahgg1 you acknowl- edge the receipt of the foregoing letter1 and after giving an outline of its contents1 say3 ,as not one of the affirmations1 in the form stated in this letter1 was contained in the offer we made1 we have no occasion to substantiate them4 ,but we are prepared #deb to produce the evidence of the truth of our own statement1 and even to go further2 to show not only that ,tom ,paine 'died a drunken1 cowardly1 and beastly death1' but that for many years previous1 and up to that event he lived a drunken and beastly life4 ,in order to refresh your memory as to what you had published1 ,i call your attention to the following1 which appeared in the ,n4 ,y4 ,observer1 ,july #ai1 #ahgg3 ,put ,down the ,money4 ,col4 ,bob ,ingersoll1 in a speech full of ribaldry and blasphemy1 made in ,san ,francisco recently1 said3 ,i will give #a1jjj in gold coin to any clergyman who can substantiate that the death of ,voltaire was not as peaceful as the dawn2 and of ,tom ,paine whom they assert died in fear and agony1 frightened by the clanking chains of devils--in fact frightened to death by ,god4 ,i will give #a1jjj likewise to any one who can substantiate this 'absurd story'--a story without a word of truth in it4 ,we have published the testimony1 and the wit- nesses are on hand to prove that ,tom ,paine died a drunken1 cowardly and beastly death4 ,let the ,colo- nel deposit the money with any honest man1 and the absurd story1 as he terms it1 shall be shown to be an ower true tale4 ,but he wont do it4 ,his talk is ,infi- del 'buncombe' and nothing more4 #dec ,on the #cast of ,august ,i sent you my letter1 and on the #bgth of ,september you say in your paper3 ,as not one of the affirmations in the form stated in this letter was contained in the offer we made1 we have no occasion to substantiate them4 ,what were the affirmations contained in the offer you made8 ,i had offered a thousand dollars in gold to any one who would substantiate the absurd story that ,thomas ,paine died in fear and agony1frightened by the clanking chains of devils--in fact1 frightened to death by ,god4 ,in response to this offer you said3 ,let the ,colo- nel deposit the money with an honest man and the 'absurd story' as he terms it1 shall be shown to be an 'ower true tale4' ,but he won't do it4 ,his talk is infidel 'buncombe' and nothing more4 ,did you not offer to prove that ,paine died in fear and agony1 frightened by the clanking chains of devils8 ,did you not ask me to deposit the money that you might prove the absurd story to be an ower true tale and obtain the money8 ,did you not in your paper of the twenty-seventh of ,september in effect deny that you had offered to prove this absurd story8 ,as soon as ,i offered to deposit the gold and give bonds besides to cover costs1 did you not publish a falsehood8 #ded ,you have eaten your own words1 and1 for my part1 ,i would rather have dined with ,ezekiel than with you4 ,you have not met the issue4 ,you have know- ingly avoided it4 ,the question was not as to the personal habits of ,paine4 ,the real question was and is1 whether ,paine was filled with fear and horror at the time of his death on account of his religious opinions4 ,that is the question4 ,you avoid this4 ,in effect1 you abandon that charge and make others4 ,to you belongs the honor of having made the most cruel and infamous charges against ,thomas ,paine that have ever been made4 ,of what you have said you cannot prove the truth of one word4 ,you say that ,thomas ,paine died a drunken1 cowardly and beastly death4 ,i pronounce this charge to be a cowardly and beastly falsehood4 ,have you any evidence that he was in a drunken condition when he died8 ,what did he say or do of a cowardly character just before1 or at about the time of his death8 ,in what way was his death cowardly8 ,you must answer these questions1 and give your proof1 or all honest men will hold you in abhorrence4 ,you have made these charges4 ,the man against whom you ,vindication of thomas paine4 #dee make them is dead4 ,he cannot answer you4 ,i can4 ,he cannot compel you to produce your testi- mony1 or admit by your silence that you have cruelly slandered the defenceless dead4 ,i can and ,i will4 ,you say that his death was cowardly4 ,in what respect8 ,was it cowardly in him to hold the ,thirty-,nine ,articles in contempt8 ,was it cowardly not to call on your ,lord8 ,was it cowardly not to be afraid8 ,you say that his death was beastly4 ,again ,i ask1 in what respect8 ,was it beastly to submit to the inevitable with tranquillity8 ,was it beastly to look with composure upon the approach of death8 ,was it beastly to die without a com- plaint1 without a murmur--to pass from life without a fear8 ,did ,thomas ,paine ,recant8 ,mr4 ,paine had prophesied that fanatics would crawl and cringe around him during his last mo- ments4 ,he believed that they would put a lie in the mouth of ,death4 ,when the shadow of the coming dissolution was upon him1 two clergymen1 ,messrs4 ,milledollar and ,cunningham1 called to annoy the dying man4 ,mr4 ,cunningham had the politeness to say1 ,you have now a full view of death you cannot live long1 and whosoever does not believe in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ #def will asuredly be damned4 ,mr4 ,paine replied1 ,let me have none of your popish stuff4 ,get away with you4 ,good morning4 ,on another occasion a ,methodist minister ob- truded himself when ,willet ,hicks was present4 ,this minister declared to ,mr4 ,paine that unless he repented of his unbelief he would be damned4 ,paine1 although at the door of death1 rose in his bed and indignantly requested the clergyman to leave his room4 ,on another occasion1 two brothers by the name of ,pigott1 sought to convert him4 ,he was displeased and requested their departure4 ,after- ward ,thomas ,nixon and ,captain ,daniel ,pelton visited him for the express purpose of ascertaining whether he had1 in any manner1 changed his relig- ious opinions4 ,they were assured by the dying man that he still held the principles he had expressed in his writings4 ,afterward1 these gentlemen hearing that ,william ,cobbett was about to write a life of ,paine1 sent him the following note3 ,new ,york1 ,april #bd1 #ahah4 ,sir3 ,we have been informed that you have a de- sign to write a history of the life and writings of ,thomas ,paine4 ,if you have been furnished with materials in respect to his religious opinions1 or #deg rather of his recantation of his former opinions before his death1 all you have heard of his recanting is false4 ,being aware that such reports would be raised after his death by fanatics who infested his house at the time it was expected he would die1 we1 the subscrib- ers1 intimate acquaintances of ,thomas ,paine since the year #aggf1 went to his house4 ,he was sitting up in a chair1 and apparently in full vigor and use of all his mental faculties4 ,we interrogated him upon his religious opinions1 and if he had changed his mind1 or repented of anything he had said or wrote on that subject4 ,he answered1 ,not at all1 and appeared rather offended at our supposition that any change should take place in his mind4 ,we took down in writing the questions put to him and his answers thereto before a number of persons then in his room1 among whom were his doctor1 ,mrs4 ,bonneville1 c4 ,this paper is mislaid and cannot be found at present1 but the above is the substance which can be attested by many living witnesses4 ,thomas ,nixon4 ,daniel ,pelton4 ,mr4 ,jarvis1 the artist1 saw ,mr4 ,paine one or two days before his death4 ,to ,mr4 ,jarvis he expressed his belief in his written opinions upon the subject of religion4 ,b4 ,f4 ,haskin1 an attorney of the city of #deh ,new ,york1 also visited him and inquired as to his religious opinions4 ,paine was then upon the thresh- old of death1 but he did not tremble4 ,he was not a coward4 ,he expressed his firm and unshaken belief in the religious ideas he had given to the world4 ,dr4 ,manley was with him when he spoke his last words4 ,dr4 ,manley asked the dying man if he did not wish to believe that ,jesus was the ,son of ,god1 and the dying philosopher answered3 ,i have no wish to believe on that subject4 ,amasa ,woodsworth sat up with ,thomas ,paine the night before his death4 ,in #ahci ,gilbert ,vale hearing that ,mr4 ,woodsworth was living in or near ,boston1 visited him for the purpose of getting his statement4 ,the statement was published in the ,beacon of ,june #e1 #ahci1 while thousands who had been acquainted with ,mr4 ,paine were living4 ,the following is the article referred to4 ,we have just returned from ,boston4 ,one ob- ject of our visit to that city1 was to see a ,mr4 ,amasa ,woodsworth1 an engineer1 now retired in a hand- some cottage and garden at ,east ,cambridge1 ,boston4 ,this gentleman owned the house occupied by ,paine at his death--while he lived next door4 ,as an act of kindness ,mr4 ,woodsworth visited ,mr4 ,paine every day for six weeks before his death4 ,he frequently #dei sat up with him1 and did so on the last two nights of his life4 ,he was always there with ,dr4 ,manley1 the physician1 and assisted in removing ,mr4 ,paine while his bed was prepared4 ,he was present when ,dr4 ,manley asked ,mr4 ,paine if he wished to believe that ,jesus ,christ was the ,son of ,god1 and he de- scribes ,mr4 ,paine's answer as animated4 ,he says that lying on his back he used some action and with much emphasis1 replied1 ,i have no wish to believe on that subject4 ,he lived some time after this1 but was not known to speak1 for he died tranquilly4 ,he accounts for the insinuating style of ,dr4 ,manley's letter1 by stating that that gentleman just after its publication joined a church4 ,he informs us that he has openly reproved the doctor for the falsity con- tained in the spirit of that letter1 boldly declaring be- fore ,dr4 ,manley1 who is yet living1 that nothing which he saw justified the insinuations4 ,mr4 ,woods- worth assures us that he neither heard nor saw any- thing to justify the belief of any mental change in the opinions of ,mr4 ,paine previous to his death2 but that being very ill and in pain chiefly arising from the skin being removed in some parts by long lying1 he was generally too uneasy to enjoy conversation on abstract subjects4 ,this1 then1 is the best evidence that can be procured on this subject1 and we publish #dfj it while the contravening parties are yet alive1 and with the authority of ,mr4 ,woodsworth4 ,gilbert ,vale4 ,a few weeks ago ,i received the following letter which confirms the statement of ,mr4 ,vale3 ,near ,stockton1 ,cal41 ,green- wood ,cottage1 ,july #i1 #ahgg4 ,col4 ,ingersoll3 ,in #ahdb ,i talked with a gentle- man in ,boston4 ,i have forgotten his name2 but he was then an engineer of the ,charleston navy yard4 ,i am thus particular so that you can find his name on the books4 ,he told me that he nursed ,thomas ,paine in his last illness1 and closed his eyes when dead4 ,i asked him if he recanted and called upon ,god to save him4 ,he replied1 ,no4 ,he died as he had taught4 ,he had a sore upon his side and when we turned him it was very painful and he would cry out ',o ,god6' or something like that4 ,but1 said the narrator1 that was nothing1 for he believed in a ,god4 ,i told him that ,i had often heard it asserted from the pulpit that ,mr4 ,paine had recanted in his last moments4 ,the gentleman said that it was not true1 and he appeared to be an intelligent1 truthful man4 ,with respect1 ,i remain1 c41 ,philip ,graves1 ,m4 ,d4 #dfa ,the next witness is ,willet ,hicks1 a ,quaker preacher4 ,he says that during the last illness of ,mr4 ,paine he visited him almost daily1 and that ,paine died firmly convinced of the truth of the relig- ious opinions he had given to his fellow-men4 ,it was to this same ,willet ,hicks that ,paine applied for permission to be buried in the cemetery of the ,quakers4 ,permission was refused4 ,this refusal settles the question of recantation4 ,if he had re- canted1 of course there could have been no objection to his body being buried by the side of the best hypocrites on the earth4 ,if ,paine recanted why should he be denied a little earth for charity8 ,had he recanted1 it would have been regarded as a vast and splendid triumph for the gospel4 ,it would with much noise and pomp and ostentation have been heralded about the world4 ,i received the following letter to-day4 ,the writer is well know in this city1 and is a man of high character3 ,peoria1 ,oct4 #hth1 #ahgg4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll1 ,esteemed ,friend3 ,my parents were ,friends 7,quakers74 ,my father died when ,i was very young4 ,the elderly and middle- aged ,friends visited at my mother's house4 ,we #dfb lived in the city of ,new ,york4 ,among the number ,i distinctly remember ,elias ,hicks1 ,willet ,hicks1 and a ,mr4-,day1 who was a bookseller in ,pearl street4 ,there were many others1 whose names ,i do not now remember4 ,the subject of the recanta- tion by ,thomas ,paine of his views about the ,bible in his last illness1 or at any other time1 was dis- cussed by them in my presence at different times4 ,i learned from them that some of them had attended upon ,thomas ,paine in his last sickness and minis- tered to his wants up to the time of his death4 ,and upon the question of whether he did recant there was but one expression4 ,they all said that he did not recant in any manner4 ,i often heard them say they wished he had recanted4 ,in fact1 according to them1 the nearer he approached death the more positive he appeared to be in his con- victions4 ,these conversations were from #ahbj to #ahbb4 ,i was at that time from ten to twelve years old1 but these conversations impressed themselves upon me because many thoughtless people then blamed the ,society of ,friends for their kindness to that arch ,infidel1 ,thomas ,paine44 ,truly yours1 ,a4 ,c4 ,hankinson4 #dfc ,a few days ago ,i received the following letter3 ,albany1 ,new ,york1 ,sept4 #bg1 #ahgg4 ,dear ,sir3 ,it is over twenty years ago that pro- fessionally ,i made the acquaintance of ,john ,hogeboom1 a ,justice of the ,peace of the county of ,rensselaer1 ,new ,york4 ,he was then over seventy years of age and had the reputation of being a man of candor and integrity4 ,he was a great admirer of ,paine4 ,he told me that he was personally ac- quainted with him1 and used to see him frequently during the last years of his life in the city of ,new ,york1 where ,hogeboom then resided4 ,i asked him if there was any truth in the charge that ,paine was in the habit of getting drunk4 ,he said that it was utterly false2 that he never heard of such a thing during the life-time of ,mr4 ,paine1 and did not believe any one else did4 ,i asked him about the recantation of his religious opinions on his death-bed1 and the revolting death-bed scenes that the world had heard so much about4 ,he said there was no truth in them1 that he had received his information from persons who attended ,paine in his last illness1 and that he passed peacefully away1 as we may say1 in the sunshine of a great soul4444 ,yours truly1 ,w4 ,j4 ,hilton1 #dfd ,the witnesses by whom ,i substantiate the fact that ,thomas ,paine did not recant1 and that he died holding the religious opinions he had published1 are3 ,first--,thomas ,nixon1 ,captain ,daniel ,pelton1 ,b4 ,f4 ,haskin4 ,these gentlemen visited him during his last illness for the purpose of ascertaining whether he had in any respect changed his views upon relig- ion4 ,he told them that he had not4 ,second--,james ,cheetham4 ,this man was the most malicious enemy ,mr4 ,paine had1 and yet he admits that ,thomas ,paine died placidly1 and al- most without a struggle4 7,see ,life of ,thomas ,paine1 by ,james ,cheetham74 ,third--,the ministers1 ,milledollar and ,cunning- ham4 ,these gentlemen told ,mr4 ,paine that if he died without believing in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ he would be damned1 and ,paine replied1 ,let me have none of your popish stuff4 ,good morning4 7,see ,sherwin's ,life of ,paine1 p4 #bbj74 ,fourth--,mrs4 ,hedden4 ,she told these same preachers when they attempted to obtrude them- selves upon ,mr4 ,paine again1 that the attempt to convert ,mr4 ,paine was useless--that if ,god did not change his mind no human power could4 ,fifth--,andrew ,a4 ,dean4 ,this man lived upon ,paine's farm at ,new ,rochelle1 and corresponded #dfe with him upon religious subjects4 7,see ,paine's ,theological ,works1 p4 #cjh47 ,sixth--,mr4 ,jarvis1 the artist with whom ,paine lived4 ,he gives an account of an old lady coming to ,paine and telling him that ,god ,almighty had sent her to tell him that unless he repented and be- lieved in the blessed ,savior1 he would be damned4 ,paine replied that ,god would not send such a foolish old woman with such an impertinent message4 7,see ,clio ,rickman's ,life of ,paine47 ,seventh--,wm4 ,carver1 with whom ,paine boarded4 ,mr4 ,carver said again and again that ,paine did not recant4 ,he knew him well1 and had every opportun- ity of knowing4 7,see ,life of ,paine by ,gilbert ,vale47 ,eighth--,dr4 ,manley1 who attended him in his last sickness1 and to whom ,paine spoke his last words4 ,dr4 ,manley asked him if he did not wish to believe in ,jesus ,christ1 and he replied1 ,i have no wish to believe on that subject4 ,ninth--,willet ,hicks and ,elias ,hicks1 who were with him frequently during his last sickness1 and both of whom tried to persuade him to recant4 ,ac- cording to their testimony1 ,mr4 ,paine died as he had lived--a believer in ,god1 and a friend of man4 ,willet ,hicks was offered money to say something false against ,thomas ,paine4 ,he was even offered #dff money to remain silent and allow others to slander the dead4 ,mr4 ,hicks1 speaking of ,thomas ,paine1 said3 ,he was a good man--an honest man4 7,vale's ,life of ,paine47 ,tenth--,amasa ,woodsworth1 who was with him every day for some six weeks immediately preceding his death1 and sat up with him the last two nights of his life4 ,this man declares that ,paine did not recant and that he died tranquilly4 ,the evidence of ,mr4 ,woodsworth is conclusive4 ,eleventh--,thomas ,paine himself4 ,the will of ,thomas ,paine1 written by himself1 commences as follows3 ,the last will and testament of me1 the subscriber1 ,thomas ,paine1 reposing confidence in my creator ,god1 and in no other being1 for ,i know of no other1 nor believe in any other2 and closes in these words2 ,i have lived an honest and useful life to mankind2 my time has been spent in doing good1 and ,i die in perfect composure and resignation to the will of my creator ,god4 ,twelfth--,if ,thomas ,paine recanted1 why do you pursue him8 ,if he recanted1 he died substantially in your belief1 for what reason then do you denounce his death as cowardly8 ,if upon his death-bed he renounced the opinions he had published1 the busi- #dfg ness of defaming him should be done by ,infidels1 not by ,christians4 ,i ask you if it is honest to throw away the testi- mony of his friends--the evidence of fair and honor- able men--and take the putrid words of avowed and malignant enemies8 ,when ,thomas ,paine was dying1 he was infested by fanatics--by the snaky spies of bigotry4 ,in the shadows of death were the unclean birds of prey waiting to tear with beak and claw the corpse of him who wrote the ,rights of ,man4 ,and there lurk- ing and crouching in the darkness were the jackals and hyenas of superstition ready to violate his grave4 ,these birds of prey--these unclean beasts are the witnesses produced and relied upon by you4 ,one by one the instruments of torture have been wrenched from the cruel clutch of the church1 until within the armory of orthodoxy there remains but one weapon--,slander4 ,against the witnesses that ,i have produced you can bring just two--,mary ,roscoe and ,mary ,hins- dale4 ,the first is referred to in the memoir of ,stephen ,grellet4 ,she had once been a servant in his house4 ,grellet tells what happened between this girl and ,paine4 ,according to this account ,paine asked her if she had ever read any of his writings1 #dfh and on being told that she had read very little of them1 he inquired what she thought of them1 adding that from such an one as she he expected a correct answer4 ,let us examine this falsehood4 ,why would ,paine expect a correct answer about his writings from one who had read very little of them8 ,does not such a statement devour itself8 ,this young lady further said that the ,age of ,reason was put in her hands and that the more she read in it the more dark and distressed she felt1 and that she threw the book into the fire4 ,whereupon ,mr4 ,paine remarked1 ,i wish all had done as you did1 for if the devil ever had any agency in any work1 he had it in my writing that book4 ,the next is ,mary ,hinsdale4 ,she was a servant in the family of ,willet ,hicks4 ,she1 like ,mary ,ros- coe1 was sent to carry some delicacy to ,mr4 ,paine4 ,to this young lady ,paine1 according to her account1 said precisely the same that he did to ,mary ,roscoe1 and she said the same thing to ,mr4 ,paine4 ,my own opinion is that ,mary ,roscoe and ,mary ,hinsdale are one and the same person1 or the same story has been by mistake put in the mouth of both4 ,it is not possible that the same conversation should have taken place between ,paine and ,mary ,roscoe1 and between him and ,mary ,hinsdale4 #dfi ,mary ,hinsdale lived with ,willet ,hicks and he pronounced her story a pious fraud and fabrication4 ,he said that ,thomas ,paine never said any such thing to ,mary ,hinsdale4 7,see ,vale's ,life of ,paine47 ,another thing about this witness4 ,a woman by the name of ,mary ,lockwood1 a ,hicksite ,quaker1 died4 ,mary ,hinsdale met her brother about that time and told him that his sister had recanted1 and wanted her to say so at her funeral4 ,this turned out to be false4 ,it has been claimed that ,mary ,hinsdale made her statement to ,charles ,collins4 ,long after the alleged occurrence ,gilbert ,vale1 one of the biographers of ,paine1 had a conversation with ,collins concerning ,mary ,hinsdale4 ,vale asked him what he thought of her4 ,he replied that some of the ,friends be- lieved that she used opiates1 and that they did not give credit to her statements4 ,he also said that he believed what the ,friends said1 but thought that when a young woman1 she might have told the truth4 ,in #ahah ,william ,cobbett came to ,new ,york4 ,he began collecting materials for a life of ,thomas ,paine4 ,in this he became acquainted with ,mary ,hinsdale and ,charles ,collins4 ,mr4 ,cobbett gave a #dgj full account of what happened in a letter addressed to the ,norwich ,mercury in #ahai4 ,from this ac- count it seems that ,charles ,collins told ,cobbett that ,paine had recanted4 ,cobbett called for the testi- mony1 and told ,mr4 ,collins that he must give time1 place1 and the circumstances4 ,he finally brought a statement that he stated had been made by ,mary ,hinsdale4 ,armed with this document ,cobbett1 in ,october of that year1 called upon the said ,mary ,hinsdale1 at ,no4 #aj ,anthony street1 ,new ,york1 and showed her the statement4 ,upon being questioned by ,mr4 ,cobbett she said1 ,that it was so long ago that she could not speak positively to any part of the matter--that she would not say that any part of the paper was true--that she had never seen the paper --and that she had never given ,charles ,collins authority to say anything about the matter in her name4 ,and so in the month of ,october1 in the year of grace #ahah1 in the mist and fog of forgetful- ness disappeared forever one ,mary ,hinsdale--the last and only witness against the intellectual honesty of ,thomas ,paine4 ,did ,thomas ,paine live the life of a drunken beast1 and did he die a drunken1 cowardly and beastly death8 ,upon you rests the burden of substantiating these infamous charges4 #dga ,you have1 ,i suppose1 produced the best evidence in your possession1 and that evidence ,i will now pro- ceed to examine4 ,your first witness is ,grant ,thor- burn4 ,he makes three charges against ,thomas ,paine1 #ast4 ,that his wife obtained a divorce from him in ,england for cruelty and neglect4 #b;d4 ,that he was a defaulter and fled from ,england to ,amer- ica4 #c;d4 ,that he was a drunkard4 ,these three charges stand upon the same evidence --the word of ,grant ,thorburn4 ,if they are not all true ,mr4 ,thorburn stands impeached4 ,the charge that ,mrs4 ,paine obtained a divorce on account of the cruelty and neglect of her husband is utterly false4 ,there is no such record in the world1 and never was4 ,paine and his wife separated by mutual consent4 ,each respected the other4 ,they remained friends4 ,this charge is without any foun- dation in fact4 ,i challenge the ,christian world to produce the record of this decree of divorce4 ,accord- ing to ,mr4 ,thorburn it was granted in ,england4 ,in that country public records are kept of all such de- crees4 ,have the kindness to produce this decree showing that it was given on account of cruelty or admit that ,mr4 ,thorburn was mistaken4 ,thomas ,paine was a just man4 ,although sepa- rated from his wife1 he always spoke of her with #dgb tenderness and respect1 and frequently sent her money without letting her know the source from whence it came4 ,was this the conduct of a drunken beast8 ,the second charge1 that ,paine was a defaulter in ,england and fled to ,america1 is equally false4 ,he did not flee from ,england4 ,he came to ,america1 not as a fugitive1 but as a free man4 ,he came with a letter of introduction signed by another ,infidel1 ,benjamin ,franklin4 ,he came as a soldier of ,free- dom--an apostle of ,liberty4 ,in this second charge there is not one word of truth4 ,he held a small office in ,england4 ,if he was a defaulter the records of that country will show that fact4 ,mr4 ,thorburn1 unless the record can be produced to substantiate him1 stands convicted of at least two mistakes4 ,now1 as to the third3 ,he says that in #ahjb ,paine was an old remnant of mortality1 drunk1 bloated and half asleep4 ,can any one believe this to be a true account of the personal appearance of ,mr4 ,paine in #ahjb8 ,he had just returned from ,france4 ,he had been wel- comed home by ,thomas ,jefferson1 who had said that he was entitled to the hospitality of every ,american4 #dgc ,in #ahjb ,mr4 ,paine was honored with a public din- ner in the city of ,new ,york4 ,he was called upon and treated with kindness and respect by such men as ,de,witt ,clinton4 ,in #ahjf ,mr4 ,paine wrote a letter to ,andrew ,a4 ,dean upon the subject of religion4 ,read that letter and then say that the writer of it was an old rem- nant of mortality1 drunk1 bloated and half asleep4 ,search the files of the ,new ,york ,observer from the first issue to the last1 and you will find nothing supe- rior to this letter4 ,in #ahjc ,mr4 ,paine wrote a letter of considerable length1 and of great force1 to his friend ,samuel ,adams4 ,such letters are not written by drunken beasts1 nor by remnants of old mortality1 nor by drunkards4 ,it was about the same time that he wrote his ,remarks on ,robert ,hall's ,sermons4 ,these ,remarks were not written by a drunken beast1 but by a clear-headed and thoughtful man4 ,in #ahjd he published an essay on the invasion of ,england1 and a treatise on gunboats1 full of valuable maritime information3--in #ahje1 a treatise on yellow fever1 suggesting modes of prevention4 ,in short1 he was an industrious and thoughtful man4 ,he sympa- thized with the poor and oppressed of all lands4 ,he looked upon monarchy as a species of physical #dgd slavery4 ,he had the goodness to attack that form of government4 ,he regarded the religion of his day as a kind of mental slavery4 ,he had the courage to give his reasons for his opinion4 ,his reasons filled the churches with hatred4 ,instead of answering his arguments they attacked him4 ,men who were not fit to blacken his shoes1 blackened his character4 ,there is too much religious cant in the statement of ,mr4 ,thorburn4 ,he exhibited too much anxiety to tell what ,grant ,thorburn said to ,thomas ,paine4 ,he names ,thomas ,jefferson as one of the disreputa- ble men who welcomed ,paine with open arms4 ,the testimony of a man who regarded ,thomas ,jefferson as a disreputable person1 as to the character of any- body1 is utterly without value4 ,in my judgment1 the testimony of ,mr4 ,thorburn should be thrown aside as wholly unworthy of belief4 ,your next witness is the ,rev4 ,j4 ,d4 ,wickham1 ,d4 ,d41 who tells what an elder in his church said4 ,this elder said that ,paine passed his last days on his farm at ,new ,rochelle with a solitary female attendant4 ,this is not true4 ,he did not pass his last days at ,new ,rochelle4 ,consequently this pious elder did not see him during his last days at that place4 ,upon this elder we prove an alibi4 ,mr4 ,paine passed his last days in the city of ,new ,york1 in a house upon #dge ,columbia street4 ,the story of the ,rev4 ,j4 ,d4 ,wick- ham1 ,d4,d41 is simply false4 ,the next competent false witness is the ,rev4 ,charles ,hawley1 ,d4,d41 who proceeds to state that the story of the ,rev4 ,j4 ,d4 ,wickham1 ,d4,d41 is cor- roborated by older citizens of ,new ,rochelle4 ,the names of these ancient residents are withheld4 ,ac- cording to these unknown witnesses1 the account given by the deceased elder was entirely correct4 ,but as the particulars of ,mr4 ,paine's conduct were too loathsome to be described in print1 we are left entirely in the dark as to what he really did4 ,while at ,new ,rochelle ,mr4 ,paine lived with ,mr4 ,purdy--with ,mr4 ,dean--with ,captain ,pelton1 and with ,mr4 ,staple4 ,it is worthy of note that all of these gentlemen give the lie direct to the statements of older residents and ancient citizens spoken of by the ,rev4 ,charles ,hawley1 ,d4,d41 and leave him with his loathsome particulars existing only in his own mind4 ,the next gentleman you bring upon the stand is ,w4 ,h4 ,ladd1 who quotes from the memoirs of ,stephen ,grellet4 ,this gentleman also has the mis- fortune to be dead4 ,according to his account1 ,mr4 ,paine made his recantation to a servant girl of his by the name of ,mary ,roscoe4 ,to this girl1 accord- #dgf ing to the account1 ,mr4 ,paine uttered the wish that all who read his book had burned it4 ,i believe there is a mistake in the name of this girl4 ,her name was probably ,mary ,hinsdale1 as it was once claimed that ,paine made the same remark to her1 but this point ,i shall notice hereafter4 ,these are your witnesses1 and the only ones you bring forward1 to support your charge that ,thomas ,paine lived a drunken and beastly life and died a drunken1 cowardly and beastly death4 ,all these calumnies are found in a life of ,paine by a ,mr4 ,cheetham1 the convicted libeler already referred to4 ,mr4 ,cheetham was an enemy of the man whose life he pretended to write4 ,in order to show you the estimation in which ,mr4 ,cheetham was held by ,mr4 ,paine1 ,i will give you a copy of a letter that throws light upon this point3 ,october #bh1 #ahjg4 ,mr4 ,cheetham3 ,unless you make a public apol- ogy for the abuse and falsehood in your paper of ,tuesday1 ,october #bgth1 respecting me1 ,i will prose- cute you for lying4 ,thomas ,paine4 ,in another letter1 speaking of this same man1 ,mr4 ,paine says3 ,if an unprincipled bully cannot be re- formed1 he can be punished4 ,cheetham has been so long in the habit of giving false information1 that truth is to him like a foreign language4 #dgg ,mr4 ,cheetham wrote the life of ,paine to gratify his malice and to support religion4 ,he was prose- cuted for libel--was convicted and fined4 ,yet the life of ,paine written by this man is referred to by the ,christian world as the highest authority4 ,as to the personal habits of ,mr4 ,paine1 we have the testimony of ,william ,carver1 with whom he lived2 of ,mr4 ,jarvis1 the artist1 with whom he lived2 of ,mr4 ,staple1 with whom he lived2 of ,mr4 ,purdy1 who was a tenant of ,paine's2 of ,mr4 ,burger1 with whom he was intimate2 of ,thomas ,nixon and ,captain ,daniel ,pelton1 both of whom knew him well2 of ,amasa ,woodsworth1 who was with him when he died2 of ,john ,fellows1 who boarded at the same house2 of ,james ,wilburn1 with whom he boarded2 of ,b4 ,f4 ,haskin1 a lawyer1 who was well acquainted with him and called upon him during his last illness2 of ,walter ,morton1 a friend2 of ,clio ,rickman1 who had known him for many years2 of ,willet and ,elias ,hicks1 ,quakers1 who knew him in- timately and well2 of ,judge ,herttell1 ,h4 ,margary1 ,elihu ,palmer1 and many others4 ,all these testified to the fact that ,mr4 ,paine was a temperate man4 ,in those days nearly everybody used spirituous liquors4 ,paine was not an exception2 but he did not drink to excess4 ,mr4 ,lovett1 who kept the ,city ,hotel where #dgh ,paine stopped1 in a note to ,caleb ,bingham1 declared that ,paine drank less than any boarder he had4 ,against all this evidence you produce the story of ,grant ,thorburn--the story of the ,rev4 ,j4 ,d4 ,wick- ham that an elder in his church told him that ,paine was a drunkard1 corroborated by the ,rev4 ,charles ,hawley1 and an extract from ,lossing's history to the same effect4 ,the evidence is overwhelmingly against you4 ,will you have the fairness to admit it8 ,your witnesses are merely the repeaters of the false- hoods of ,james ,cheetham1 the convicted libeler4 ,after all1 drinking is not as bad as lying4 ,an honest drunkard is better than a calumniator of the dead4 ,a remnant of old mortality1 drunk1 bloated and half asleep is better than a perfectly sober defender of human slavery4 ,to become drunk is a virtue compared with steal- ing a babe from the breast of its mother4 ,drunkenness is one of the beatitudes1 compared with editing a religious paper devoted to the defence of slavery upon the ground that it is a divine insti- tution4 ,do you really think that ,paine was a drunken beast when he wrote ,common ,sense--a pamphlet that aroused three millions of people1 as people were never aroused by a pamphlet before8 ,was he a #dgi drunken beast when he wrote the ,crisis8 ,was it to a drunken beast that the following letter was addressed3 ,rocky ,hill1 ,september #aj1 #aghc4 ,i have learned since ,i have been at this place1 that you are at ,bordentown4--,whether for the sake of retirement or economy ,i know not4 ,be it for either or both1 or whatever it may1 if you will come to this place and partake with me ,i shall be exceed- ingly happy to see you at it4 ,your presence may remind ,congress of your past services to this country2 and if it is in my power to impress them1 command my best exertions with freedom1 as they will be rendered cheerfully by one who entertains a lively sense of the importance of your works1 and who with much pleasure subscribes himself1 ,your ,sincere ,friend1 ,george ,washington4 ,did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter like that8 ,do you think that ,paine was a drunken beast when the following letter was received by him8 ,you express a wish in your letter to return to ,america in a national ship2 ,mr4 ,dawson1 who brings over the treaty1 and who will present you with this letter1 is charged with orders to the captain of the #dhj ,maryland to receive and accommodate you back1 if you can be ready to depart at such a short warning4 ,you will in general find us returned to sentiments worthy of former times2 in these it will be your glory to have steadily labored and with as much effect as any man living4 ,that you may live long to continue your useful labors1 and reap the reward in the thankfulness of nations1 is my sincere prayer4 ,accept the assur- ances of my high esteem and affectionate attachment4 ,thomas ,jefferson4 ,did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter like that8 ,it has been very generally propagated through the continent that ,i wrote the pamphlet ',common ,sense4' ,i could not have written anything in so manly and striking a style4--,john ,adams4 ,a few more such flaming arguments as were exhibited at ,falmouth and ,norfolk1 added to the sound doctrine and unanswerable reasoning con- tained in the pamphlet ',common ,sense1' will not leave numbers at a loss to decide on the propriety of a separation4--,george ,washington4 ,it is not necessary for me to tell you how much all your countrymen--,i speak of the great mass of the people--are interested in your welfare4 #dha ,they have not forgotten the history of their own ,revolution and the difficult scenes through which they passed2 nor do they review its several stages without reviving in their bosoms a due sensibility of the merits of those who served them in that great and arduous conflict4 ,the crime of ingratitude has not yet stained1 and ,i trust never will stain1 our national character4 ,you are considered by them as not only having rendered important services in our own ,revolution1 but as being on a more extensive scale the friend of human rights1 and a distinguished and able defender of public liberty4 ,to the welfare of ,thomas ,paine the ,americans are not1 nor can they be indifferent444 ,james ,monroe4 ,did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter like that8 ,no writer has exceeded ,paine in ease and famil- iarity of style1 in perspicuity of expression1 happiness of elucidation1 and in simple and unassuming lan- guage4'--,thomas ,jefferson4 ,was ever a letter like that written about an editor of the ,new ,york ,observer8 ,was it in consideration of the services of a drunken beast that the ,legislature of ,pennsylvania presented ,thomas ,paine with five hundred pounds sterling8 #dhb ,did the ,state of ,new ,york feel indebted to a drunken beast1 and confer upon ,thomas ,paine an estate of several hundred acres8 ,i believe in the equality of man1 and ,i believe that religious duties consist in doing justice1 loving mercy1 and endeavoring to make our fellow-creat- ures happy4 ,my own mind is my own church4 ,it is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself4 ,any system of religion that shocks the mind of a child cannot be a true system4 ,the ,word of ,god is the creation which we behold4 ,the age of ignorance commenced with the ,christian system4 ,it is with a pious fraud as with a bad action--it begets a calamitous necessity of going on4 ,to read the ,bible without horror1 we must undo everything that is tender1 sympathizing and benev- olent in the heart of man4 ,the man does not exist who can say ,i have per- secuted him1 or that ,i have in any case returned evil for evil4 ,of all tyrannies that afflict mankind1 tyranny in religion is the worst4 #dhc ,my own opinion is1 that those whose lives have been spent in doing good and endeavoring to make their fellow-mortals happy1 will be happy hereafter4 ,the belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man4 ,the intellectual part of religion is a private affair between every man and his ,maker1 and in which no third party has any right to interfere4 ,the practical part consists in our doing good to each other4 ,no man ought to make a living by religion4 ,one person cannot act religion for another--every person must perform it for himself4 ,one good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests4 ,let us propagate morality unfettered by super- stition4 ,god is the power1 or first cause1 ,nature is the law1 and matter is the subject acted upon4 ,i believe in one ,god and no more1 and ,i hope for happiness beyond this life4 ,the key of heaven is not in the keeping of any sect nor ought the road to it to be obstructed by any4 ,my religion1 and the whole of it1 is the fear and love of the ,deity and universal philanthropy4 ,i have yet1 ,i believe1 some years in store1 for ,i have a good state of health and a happy mind4 ,i #dhd take care of both1 by nourishing the first with tem- perance and the latter with abundance4 ,he lives immured within the ,bastile of a word4 ,how perfectly that sentence describes you6 ,the ,bastile in which you are immured is the word ,calvinism4 ,man has no property in man4 ,what a splendid motto that would have made for the ,new ,york ,observer in the olden time6 ,the world is my country2 to do good1 my religion4 ,i ask you again whether these splendid utterances came from the lips of a drunken beast8 ,did ,thomas ,paine die in destitution and want8 ,the charge has been made1 over and over again1 that ,thomas ,paine died in want and destitution-- that he was an abandoned pauper--an outcast with- out friends and without money4 ,this charge is just as false as the rest4 ,upon his return to this country in #ahjb1 he was worth #cj1jjj1 according to his own statement made at that time in the following letter addressed to ,clio ,rickman3 ,my ,dear ,friend3 ,mr4 ,monroe1 who is appointed minister extraordinary to ,france1 takes charge of #dhe this1 to be delivered to ,mr4 ,este1 banker in ,paris1 to be forwarded to you4 ,i arrived at ,baltimore the #cjth of ,october1 and you can have no idea of the agitation which my arrival occasioned4 ,from ,new ,hampshire to ,georgia 7an extent of #a1ejj miles7 every newspaper was filled with applause or abuse4 ,my property in this country has been taken care of by my friends1 and is now worth six thousand pounds sterling2 which put in the funds will bring me ,l#djj sterling a year4 ,remember me in affection and friendship to your wife and family1 and in the circle of your friends4 ,thomas ,paine4 ,a man in those days worth thirty thousand dol- lars was not a pauper4 ,that amount would bring an income of at least two thousand dollars per annum4 ,two thousand dollars then would be fully equal to five thousand dollars now4 ,on the #abth of ,july1 #ahji1 the year in which he died1 ,mr4 ,paine made his will4 ,from this instru- ment we learn that he was the owner of a valuable farm within twenty miles of ,new ,york4 ,he also was the owner of thirty shares in the ,new ,york ,phoenix ,insurance ,company1 worth upwards of fif- teen hundred dollars4 ,besides this1 some personal #dhf property and ready money4 ,by his will he gave to ,walter ,morton1 and ,thomas ,addis ,emmett1 brother of ,robert ,emmett1 two hundred dollars each1 and one hundred to the widow of ,elihu ,palmer4 ,is it possible that this will was made by a pauper --by a destitute outcast--by a man who suffered for the ordinary necessaries of life8 ,but suppose1 for the sake of the argument1 that he was poor and that he died a beggar1 does that tend to show that the ,bible is an inspired book and that ,calvin did not burn ,servetus8 ,do you really regard poverty as a crime8 ,if ,paine had died a millionaire1 would you have accepted his religious opinions8 ,if ,paine had drank nothing but cold water would you have repudiated the five cardinal points of ,calvin- ism8 ,does an argument depend for its force upon the pecuniary condition of the person making it8 ,as a matter of fact1 most reformers--most men and women of genius1 have been acquainted with poverty4 ,beneath a covering of rags have been found some of the tenderest and bravest hearts4 ,owing to the attitude of the churches for the last fifteen hundred years1 truth-telling has not been a very lucrative business4 ,as a rule1 hypocrisy has worn the robes1 and honesty the rags4 ,that day is passing away4 ,you cannot now answer the argu- #dhg ments of a man by pointing at holes in his coat4 ,thomas ,paine attacked the church when it was powerful--when it had what was called honors to bestow--when it was the keeper of the public con- science--when it was strong and cruel4 ,the church waited till he was dead then attacked his reputation and his clothes4 ,once upon a time a donkey kicked a lion4 ,the lion was dead4 ,conclusion4 ,from the persistence with which the orthodox have charged for the last sixty-eight years that ,thomas ,paine recanted1 and that when dying he was filled with remorse and fear2 from the malignity of the attacks upon his personal character1 ,i had con- cluded that there must be some evidence of some kind to support these charges4 ,even with my ideas of the average honor of believers in superstition-- the disciples of fear--,i did not quite believe that all these infamies rested solely upon poorly attested lies4 ,i had charity enough to suppose that some- thing had been said or done by ,thomas ,paine capa- ble of being tortured into a foundation for these calumnies4 ,and ,i was foolish enough to think that even you would be willing to fairly examine the pre- tended evidence said to sustain these charges1 and #dhh give your honest conclusion to the world4 ,i sup- posed that you1 being acquainted with the history of your country1 felt under a certain obligation to ,thomas ,paine for the splendid services rendered by him in the darkest days of the ,revolution4 ,it was only reasonable to suppose that you were aware that in the midnight of ,valley ,forge the ,crisis1 by ,thomas ,paine1 was the first star that glittered in the wide horizon of despair4 ,i took it for granted that you knew of the bold stand taken and the brave words spoken by ,thomas ,paine1 in the ,french ,con- vention1 against the death of the king4 ,i thought it probable that you1 being an editor1 had read the ,rights of ,man2 that you knew that ,thomas ,paine was a champion of human liberty2 that he was one of the founders and fathers of this ,republic2 that he was one of the foremost men of his age2 that he had never written a word in favor of injustice2 that he was a despiser of slavery2 that he abhorred tyr- anny in all its forms2 that he was in the widest and highest sense a friend of his race2 that his head was as clear as his heart was good1 and that he had the courage to speak his honest thought4 ,under these circumstances ,i had hoped that you would for the moment forget your religious prejudices and submit to the enlightened judgment of the world the evi- #dhi dence you had1 or could obtain1 affecting in any way the character of so great and so generous a man4 ,this you have refused to do4 ,in my judgment1 you have mistaken the temper of even your own readers4 ,a large majority of the religious people of this country have1 to a considerable extent1 outgrown the preju- dices of their fathers4 ,they are willing to know the truth and the whole truth1 about the life and death of ,thomas ,paine4 ,they will not thank you for having presented them the moss-covered1 the maimed and dis- torted traditions of ignorance1 prejudice1 and credulity4 ,by this course you will convince them not of the wickedness of ,paine1 but of your own unfairness4 ,what crime had ,thomas ,paine committed that he should have feared to die8 ,the only answer you can give is1 that he denied the inspiration of the ,scriptures4 ,if this is a crime1 the civilized world is filled with criminals4 ,the pioneers of human thought --the intellectual leaders of the world--the foremost men in every science--the kings of literature and art--those who stand in the front rank of investiga- tion--the men who are civilizing1 elevating1 instruct- ing1 and refining mankind1 are to-day unbelievers in the dogma of inspiration4 ,upon this question1 the intellect of ,christendom agrees with the conclusions reached by the genius of ,thomas ,paine4 ,centuries #dij ago a noise was made for the purpose of frightening mankind4 ,orthodoxy is the echo of that noise4 ,the man who now regards the ,old ,testament as in any sense a sacred or inspired book is1 in my judg- ment1 an intellectual and moral deformity4 ,there is in it so much that is cruel1 ignorant1 and ferocious that it is to me a matter of amazement that it was ever thought to be the work of a most merciful deity4 ,upon the question of inspiration ,thomas ,paine gave his honest opinion4 ,can it be that to give an honest opinion causes one to die in terror and de- spair8 ,have you in your writings been actuated by the fear of such a consequence8 ,why should it be taken for granted that ,thomas ,paine1 who devoted his life to the sacred cause of freedom1 should have been hissed at in the hour of death by the snakes of conscience1 while editors of ,presbyterian papers who defended slavery as a divine institution1 and cheer- fully justified the stealing of babes from the breasts of mothers1 are supposed to have passed smilingly from earth to the embraces of angels8 ,why should you think that the heroic author of the ,rights of ,man should shudderingly dread to leave this bank and shoal of time1 while ,calvin1 dripping with the blood of ,servetus1 was anxious to be judged of ,god8 ,is it possible that the persecutors--the instigators of #dia the massacre of ,st4 ,bartholomew--the inventors and users of thumb-screws1 and iron boots1 and racks-- the burners and tearers of human flesh--the stealers1 whippers and enslavers of men--the buyers and beaters of babes and mothers--the founders of inquisitions--the makers of chains1 the builders of dungeons1 the slanderers of the living and the calum- niators of the dead1 all died in the odor of sanctity1 with white1 forgiven hands folded upon the breasts of peace1 while the destroyers of prejudice--the apostles of humanity--the soldiers of liberty--the breakers of fetters--the creators of light--died sur- rounded with the fierce fiends of fear8 ,in your attempt to destroy the character of ,thomas ,paine you have failed1 and have succeeded only in leaving a stain upon your own4 ,you have written words as cruel1 bitter and heartless as the creed of ,calvin4 ,hereafter you will stand in the pillory of history as a defamer--a calumniator of the dead4 ,you will be known as the man who said that ,thomas ,paine1 the ,author ,hero1 lived a drunken1 coward- ly and beastly life1 and died a drunken and beastly death4 ,these infamous words will be branded upon the forehead of your reputation4 ,they will be re- membered against you when all else you may have uttered shall have passed from the memory of men4 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4 ,,the ,,observer',s ,,second ,,attack 99 ,from the ,,ny4 ,observer of ,nov4 #a1 #ahgg4 ,,tom ,,paine ,,again4 ,in the ,observer of ,september #bgth1 in response to numerous calls from different parts of the country for information1 and in fulfillment of a promise1 we presented a mass of testimony1 chiefly from persons with whom we had been personally acquainted1 establishing the truth of our assertions in regard to the dissolute life and miserable end of ,paine4 ,it was not a pleasing subject for discussion1 and an apology1 or at least an explanation1 is due to our readers for resuming it1 and for occupying so much space1 or any space1 in exhibiting the truth and the proofs in regard to the character of a man who had become so debased by his intemperance1 and so vile in his habits1 as to be excluded1 for many years before and up to the time of his death1 from all decent society4 ,our reasons for taking up the subject at all1 and for presenting at this time so much additional testi- mony in regard to the facts of the case1 are these3 ,at different periods for the last fifty years1 efforts #dic have been made by ,infidels to revive and honor the memory of one whose friends would honor him most by suffering his name to sink into oblivion1 if that were possible4 ,about two years since1 ,rev4 ,o4 ,b4 ,frothingham1 of this city1 came to their aid1 and undertook a sort of championship of ,paine1 making in a public discourse this statement3 ,no private character has been more foully calumniated in the name of ,god than that of ,thomas ,paine4 7,mr4 ,frothingham1 it will be remembered1 is the one who recently1 in a public discourse1 announced the down- fall of ,christianity1 although he very kindly made the allowance that1 it may be a thousand years before its decay will be visible to all eyes4 ,it is our private opinion that it will be at least a thousand and one47 ,rev4 ,john ,w4 ,chadwick1 a minister of the same order of unbelief1 who signs himself1 ,min- ister of the ,second ,unitarian ,society in ,brooklyn1 has devoted two discourses to the same end1 eulogiz- ing ,paine4 ,in one of these1 which we have before us in a handsomely printed pamphlet1 entitled1 ,method and ,value of his 7,paine's7 ,religious ,teachings1 he says3 ,christian usage has determ- ined that an ,infidel means one who does not believe in ,christianity as a supernatural religion2 in the ,bible as a ,supernatural book2 in ,jesus as a super- #did natural person4 ,and in this sense ,paine was an ,infidel1 and so1 thank ,god1 am ,i4 ,it is proper to add that ,unitarians generally decline all responsibil- ity for the utterances of both of these men1 and that they compose a denomination1 or rather two denom- inations1 of their own4 ,there is also a certain class of ,infidels who are not quite prepared to meet the odium that attaches to the name2 they call themselves ,christians1 but their sympathies are all with the enemies of ,chris- tianity1 and they are not always able to conceal it4 ,they have not the courage of their opinions1 like ,mr4 ,frothingham and ,mr4 ,chadwick1 and they work only sideways toward the same end4 ,we have been no little amused since our last article on this subject appeared1 to read some of the articles that have been written on the other side1 though professedly on no side1 and to observe how sincerely these men depre- cate the discussion of the character of ,paine1 as an unprofitable topic4 ,it never appeared to them un- profitable when the discussion was on the other side4 ,then1 too1 we have for months past been receiving letters from different parts of the country1 asking authentic information on the subject and stating that the followers of ,paine are making extraordinary efforts to circulate his writings against the ,christian #die religion1 and in order to give currency to these writ- ings they are endeavoring to rescue his name from the disgrace into which it sank during the latter years of his life4 ,paine spent several of his last years in furnishing a commentary upon his ,infidel principles4 ,this commentary was contained in his besotted1 degraded life and miserable end1 but his friends do not wish the commentary to go out in connection with his writings4 ,they prefer to have them read without the comments by their author4 ,hence this anxiety to free the great apostle of ,infidelity from the obloquy which his life brought upon his name2 to represent him as a pure1 noble1 virtuous man1 and to make it appear that he died a peaceful1 happy death1 just like a philosopher4 ,but what makes the publication of the facts in the case still more imperative at this time is the whole- sale accusation brought against the ,christian public by the friends and admirers of ,paine4 ,christian ministers as a class1 and ,christian journals are expressly accused of falsifying history1 of defaming the mighty dead6 7meaning ,paine17 c41 c4 ,in the face of all these accusations it cannot be out of place to state the facts and to fortify the statement by satisfactory evidence1 as we are abundantly able to do4 #dif ,the two points on which we proposed to produce the testimony are1 the character of ,paine's life 7refer- ring of course to his last residence in this country1 for no one has intimated that he had sunk into such besotted drunkenness until about the time of his return to the ,united ,states in #ahjb71 and the real character of his death as consistent with such a life1 and as marked further by the cowardliness1 which has been often exhibited by ,infidels in the same circumstances4 ,it is nothing at all to the purpose to show1 as his friends are fond of doing1 that ,paine rendered important service to the cause of ,american ,inde- pendence4 ,this is not the point under discussion and is not denied4 ,no one ever called in question the valuable service that ,benedict ,arnold rendered to the country in the early part of the ,revolutionary war2 but this1 with true ,americans1 does not suffice to cast a shade of loveliness or even to spread a man- tle of charity over his subsequent career4 ,whatever share ,paine had in the personal friendship of the fathers of the ,revolution he forfeited by his subse- quent life of beastly drunkenness and degradation1 and on this account as well as on account of his blasphemy he was shunned by all decent people4 ,we wish to make one or two corrections of mis- #dig statements by ,paine's advocates1 on which a vast amount of argument has been simply wasted4 ,we have never stated in any form1 nor have we ever supposed1 that ,paine actually renounced his ,infidel- ity4 ,the accounts agree in stating that he died a blaspheming ,infidel1 and his horrible death we regard as one of the fruits1 the fitting complement of his ,infidelity4 ,we have never seen anything that encouraged the hope that he was not abandoned of ,god in his last hours4 ,but we have no doubt1 on the other hand1 that having become a wreck in body and mind through his intemperance1 abandoned of ,god1 deserted by his ,infidel companions1 and de- pendent upon ,christian charity for the attentions he received1 miserable beyond description in his condi- tion1 and seeing nothing to hope for in the future1 he was afraid to die1 and was ready to call upon ,god and upon ,christ for mercy1 and ready perhaps in the next minute to blaspheme4 ,this is what we referred to in speaking of ,paine's death as cowardly4 ,it is shown in the testimony we have produced1 and still more fully in that which we now present4 ,the most wicked men are ready to call upon ,god in seasons of great peril1 and sometimes ask for ,christian min- istrations when in extreme illness2 but they are often ready on any alleviation of distress to turn to #dih their wickedness again1 in the expressive language of ,scripture1 as the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire4 ,we have never stated or intimated1 nor1 so far as we are aware1 has any one of our correspondents stated1 that ,paine died in poverty4 ,it has been frequently and truthfully stated that ,paine was de- pendent on ,christian charity for the attentions he received in his last days1 and so he was4 ,his ,infidel companions forsook him and ,christian hearts and hands ministered to his wants1 notwithstanding the blasphemies of his death-bed4 ,nor has one of our correspondents stated1 as alleged1 that ,paine died at ,new ,rochelle4 ,the ,rev4 ,dr4 ,wickham1 who was a resident of that place nearly fifty years ago1 and who was perfectly familiar with the facts of his life1 wrote that ,paine spent his latter days on the farm presented to him by the ,state of ,new ,york1 which was strictly true1 but made no reference to it as the place of his death4 ,such misrepresentations serve to show how much the advocates of ,paine admire truth4 ,with these explanations we produce further evi- dence in regard to the manner of ,paine's life and the character of his death1 both of which we have already #dii characterized in appropriate terms1 as the following testimony will show4 ,in regard to ,paine's personal habits1 even before his return to this country1 and particularly his aver- sion to soap and water1 ,elkana ,watson1 a gentleman of the highest social position1 who resided in ,france during a part of the ,revolutionary war1 and who was the personal friend of ,washington1 ,franklin1 and other patriots of the period1 makes some inci- dental statements in his ,men and ,times of the ,revolution4 ,though eulogizing ,paine's efforts in behalf of ,american ,independence1 he describes him as coarse and uncouth in his manners1 loathsome in his appearance1 and a disgusting egotist4 ,on ,paine's arrival at ,nantes1 the ,mayor and other dis- tinguished citizens called upon him to pay their respects to the ,american patriot4 ,mr4 ,watson says3 ,he was soon rid of his respectable visitors1 who left the room with marks of astonishment and dis- gust4 ,mr4 ,w41 after much entreaty1 and only by promising him a bundle of newspapers to read while undergoing the operation1 succeeded in prevailing on ,paine to stew1 for an hour1 in a hot bath4 ,mr4 ,w4 accompanied ,paine to the bath1 and instructed the keeper1 in ,french1 7which ,paine did not under- stand17 gradually to increase the heat of the water #ejj until 'le ,monsieur serait bien bouille 7until the gentle- man shall be well boiled27 and adds that he became so much absorbed in his reading that he was nearly- parboiled before leaving the bath1 much to his im- provement and my satisfaction4 ,william ,carver has been cited as a witness in be- half of ,paine1 and particularly as to his personal habits4 ,in a letter to ,paine1 dated ,december #b1 #aggf1 he bears the following testimony3 ,a respectable gentlemen from ,new ,rochelle called to see me a few days back1 and said that everybody was tired of you there1 and no one would undertake to board and lodge you4 ,i thought this was the case1 as ,i found you at a tavern in a most miserable situation4 ,you appeared as if you had not been shaved for a fortnight1 and as to a shirt1 it could not be said that you had one on4 ,it was only the remains of one1 and this1 likewise1 appeared not to have been off your back for a fortnight1 and was nearly the color of tanned leather2 and you had the most disagreeable smell possible2 just like that of our poor beggars in ,england4 ,do you remember the pains ,i took to clean you8 that ,i got a tub of warm water and soap and washed you from head to foot1 and this ,i had to do three times before ,i could get you clean4 7,and then follow more disgusting details47 #eja ,you say1 also1 that you found your own liquors during the time you boarded with me2 but you should have said1 ',i found only a small part of the liquor ,i drank during my stay with you2 this part ,i purchased of ,john ,fellows1 which was a demijohn of brandy containing four gallons1 and this did not serve me three weeks4' ,this can be proved1 and ,i mean not to say anything that ,i cannot prove2 for ,i hold truth as a precious jewel4 ,it is a well-known fact1 that you drank one quart of brandy per day1 at my expense1 during the different times that you have boarded with me1 the demijohn above mentioned excepted1 and the last fourteen weeks you were sick4 ,is not this a supply of liquor for dinner and supper8 ,this chosen witness in behalf of ,paine1 closes his letter1 which is full of loathsome descriptions of ,paine's manner of life1 as follows3 ,now1 sir1 ,i think ,i have drawn a complete por- trait of your character2 yet to enter upon every minutiae would be to give a history of your life1 and to develop the fallacious mask of hypocrisy and de- ception under which you have acted in your political as well as moral capacity of life4 7,signed7 ,william ,carver4 ,carver had the same opinion of ,paine to his dying day4 ,when an old man1 and an ,infidel of the ,paine #ejb type and habits1 he was visited by the ,rev4 ,e4 ,f4 ,hatfield1 ,d4,d41 of this city1 who writes to us of his interview with ,carver1 under date of ,sept4 #bg1 #ahgg3 ,i conversed with him nearly an hour4 ,i took special pains to learn from him all that ,i could about ,paine1 whose landlord he had been for eighteen months4 ,he spoke of him as a base and shameless drunkard1 utterly destitute of moral principle4 ,his denunciations of the man were perfectly fearful1 and fully confirmed1 in my apprehension1 all that had been written of ,paine's immorality and repulsiveness4 ,cheetham's ,life of ,paine1 which was published the year that he died1 and which has passed through several editions 7we have three of them now before us7 describes a man lost to all moral sensibility and to all sense of decency1 a habitual drunkard1 and it is simply incredible that a book should have appeared so soon after the death of its subject and should have been so frequently republished without being at once refuted1 if the testimony were not substantially true4 ,many years later1 when it was found necessary to bolster up the reputation of ,paine1 ,cheetham's ,memoirs were called a pack of lies4 ,if only one- tenth part of what he publishes circumstantially in his volume1 as facts in regard to ,paine1 were true1 all that has been written against him in later years does #ejc not begin to set forth the degraded character of the man's life4 ,and with all that has been written on the subject we see no good reason to doubt the sub- stantial accuracy of ,cheetham's portrait of the man whom he knew so well4 ,dr4 ,j4 ,w4 ,francis1 well-known as an eminent phy- sician1 of this city1 in his ,reminiscences of ,new ,york1 says of ,paine3 ,he who1 in his early days1 had been associated with1 and had received counsel from ,franklin1 was1 in his old age1 deserted by the humblest menial2 he1 whose pen has proved a very sword among nations1 had shaken empires1 and made kings tremble1 now yielded up the mastery to the most treacherous of tyrants1 ,king ,alcohol4 ,the physician who attended ,paine during his last illness was ,dr4 ,james ,r4 ,manley1 a gentleman of the highest character4 ,a letter of his1 written in ,octo- ber of the year that ,paine died1 fully corroborates the account of his state as recorded by ,stephen ,grellet in his ,memoirs1 which we have already printed4 ,he writes3 ,new ,york1 ,october #b1 #ahji3 ,i was called upon by accident to visit ,mr4 ,paine1 on the #beth of ,feb- ruary last1 and found him indisposed with fever1 and very apprehensive of an attack of apoplexy1 as he #ejd stated that he had that disease before1 and at this time felt a great degree of vertigo1 and was unable to help himself as he had hitherto done1 on account of an intense pain above the eyes4 ,on inquiry of the attendants ,i was told that three or four days previously he had concluded to dispense with his usual quantity of accustomed stimulus and that he had on that day resumed it4 ,to the want of his usual drink they attributed his illness1 and it is highly probable that the usual quantity operating upon a state of system more excited from the above priva- tions1 was the cause of the symptoms of which he then complained4444 ,and here let me be per- mitted to observe 7lest blame might attach to those whose business it was to pay any particular attention to his cleanliness of person7 that it was absolutely impossible to effect that purpose4 ,cleanliness ap- peared to make no part of his comfort2 he seemed to have a singular aversion to soap and water2 he would never ask to be washed1 and when he was he would always make objections2 and it was not un- usual to wash and to dress him clean very much against his inclinations4 ,in this deplorable state1 with confirmed dropsy1 attended with frequent cough1 vomiting and hiccough1 he continued growing from bad to worse till the morning of the #hth of ,june1 #eje when he died4 ,though ,i may remark that during the last three weeks of his life his situation was such that his decease was confidently expected every day1 his ulcers having assumed a gangrenous appearance1 being excessively fetid1 and discolored blisters hav- ing taken place on the soles of his feet without any ostensible cause1 which baffled the usual attempts to arrest their progress2 and when we consider his former habits1 his advanced age1 the feebleness of his constitution1 his constant habit of using ardent spirits ad libitum till the commencement of his last illness1 so far from wondering that he died so soon1 we are constrained to ask1 ,how did he live so long8 ,con- cerning his conduct during his disease ,i have not much to remark1 though the little ,i have may be somewhat interesting4 ,mr4 ,paine professed to be above the fear of death1 and a great part of his con- versation was principally directed to give the impres- sion that he was perfectly willing to leave this world1 and yet some parts of his conduct were with difficulty reconcilable with his belief4 ,in the first stages of his illness he was satisfied to be left alone during the day1 but he required some person to be with him at night1 urging as his reason that he was afraid that he should die when unattended1 and at this period his deportment and his principle seemed to be con- #ejf sistent2 so much so that a stranger would judge from some of the remarks he would make that he was an ,infidel4 ,i recollect being with him at night1 watch- ing2 he was very apprehensive of a speedy dissolu- tion1 and suffered great distress of body1 and perhaps of mind 7for he was waiting the event of an applica- tion to the ,society of ,friends for permission that his corpse might be deposited in their grave-ground1 and had reason to believe that the request might be refused71 when he remarked in these words1 ',i think ,i can say what they made ,jesus ,christ to say--,my ,god1 my ,god6 why hast thou forsaken me8 ,he went on to observe on the want of that respect which he conceived he merited1 when ,i observed to him that ,i thought his corpse should be matter of least concern to him2 that those whom he would leave behind him would see that he was properly interred1 and1 further1 that it would be of little consequence to me where ,i was deposited provided ,i was buried2 upon which he answered that he had nothing else to talk about1 and that he would as lief talk of his death as of anything1 but that he was not so indifferent about his corpse as ,i appeared to be4 ,during the latter part of his life1 though his con- versation was equivocal1 his conduct was singular2 he could not be left alone night or day2 he not only #ejg required to have some person with him1 but he must see that he or she was there1 and would not allow his curtain to be closed at any time2 and if1 as it would sometimes unavoidably happen1 he was left alone1 he would scream and halloo until some person came to him4 ,when relief from pain would admit1 he seemed thoughtful and contemplative1 his eyes being generally closed1 and his hands folded upon his breast1 although he never slept without the assist- ance of an anodyne4 ,there was something remark- able in his conduct about this period 7which comprises about two weeks immediately preceding his death71 particularly when we reflect that ,thomas ,paine was the author of the ',age of ,reason4' ,he would call out during his paroxysms of distress1 without inter- mission1 ',o ,lord help me6 ,god help me6 ,jesus ,christ help me6 ,lord help me6' etc41 repeating the same expressions without the least variation1 in a tone of voice that would alarm the house4 ,it was this conduct which induced me to think that he had abandoned his former opinions1 and ,i was more inclined to that belief when ,i understood from his nurse 7who is a very serious and1 ,i believe1 pious woman71 that he would occasionally inquire1 when he saw her engaged with a book1 what she was reading1 and1 being answered1 and at the same time asked #ejh whether she should read aloud1 he assented1 and would appear to give particular attention4 ,i took occasion during the nights of the fifth and sixth of ,june to test the strength of his opinions respecting revelation4 ,i purposely made him a very late visit2 it was a time which seemed to suit exactly with my errand2 it was midnight1 he was in great distress1 constantly exclaiming in the words above mentioned1 when1 after a considerable preface1 ,i addressed him in the following manner1 the nurse being present3 ',mr4 ,paine1 your opinions1 by a large portion of the community1 have been treated with deference1 you have never been in the habit of mix- ing in your conversation words of coarse meaning2 you have never indulged in the practice of profane swearing2 you must be sensible that we are ac- quainted with your religious opinions as they are given to the world4 ,what must we think of your present conduct8 ,why do you call upon ,jesus ,christ to help you8 ,do you believe that he can help you8 ,do you believe in the divinity of ,jesus ,christ8 ,come1 now1 answer me honestly4 ,i want an answer from the lips of a dying man1 for ,i verily believe that you will not live twenty-four hours4' ,i waited some time at the end of every question2 he did not answer1 but ceased to exclaim in the above #eji manner4 ,again ,i addressed him2 ',mr4 ,paine1 you have not answered my questions2 will you answer them8 ,allow me to ask again1 do you believe8 or let me qualify the question1 do you wish to believe that ,jesus ,christ is the ,son of ,god8' ,after a pause of some minutes1 he answered1 ',i have no wish to believe on that subject4' ,i then left him1 and knew not whether he afterward spoke to any person on any subject1 though he lived1 as ,i before observed1 till the morning of the #hth4 ,such conduct1 under usual circumstances1 ,i conceive absolutely unaccount- able1 though1 with diffidence1 ,i would remark1 not so much so in the present instance2 for though the first necessary and general result of conviction be a sin- cere wish to atone for evil committed1 yet it may be a question worthy of able consideration whether excessive pride of opinion1 consummate vanity1 and inordinate self-love might not prevent or retard that otherwise natural consequence4 ,for my own part1 ,i believe that had not ,thomas ,paine been such a distinguished ,infidel he would have left less equivo- cal evidences of a change of opinion4 ,concerning the persons who visited ,mr4 ,paine in his distress as his personal friends1 ,i heard very little1 though ,i may observe that their number was small1 and of that number there were not wanting those who endeavor- #eaj ed to support him in his deistical opinions1 and to encourage him to 'die like a man1' to 'hold fast his integrity1' lest ,christians1 or1 as they were pleased to term them1 hypocrites1 might take advantage of his weakness1 and furnish themselves with a weapon by which they might hope to destroy their glorious sys- tem of morals4 ,numbers visited him from motives of benevolence and ,christian charity1 endeavoring to effect a change of mind in respect to his religious sentiments4 ,the labor of such was apparently lost1 and they pretty generally received such treatment from him as none but good men would risk a second time1 though some of those persons called frequently4 ,the following testimony will be new to most of our readers4 ,it is from a letter written by ,bishop ,fenwick 7,roman ,catholic ,bishop of ,boston71 con- taining a full account of a visit which he paid to ,paine in his last illness4 ,it was printed in the ,united ,states ,catholic ,magazine for #ahdf2 in the ,catholic ,herald of ,philadelphia1 ,october #ae1 #ahdf2 in a sup- plement to the ,hartford ,courant1 ,october #bc1 #ahdg2 and in ,littell's ,living ,age for ,january #bb1 #ahdh1 from which we copy4 ,bishop ,fenwick writes3 ,a short time before ,paine died ,i was sent for by him4 ,he was prompted to this by a poor ,catholic woman who went to see him in his sickness1 and #eaa who told him1 among other things1 that in his wretched condition if anybody could do him any good it would be a ,roman ,catholic priest4 ,this woman was an ,american convert 7formerly a ,shak- ing ,quakeress7 whom ,i had received into the church but a few weeks before4 ,she was the bearer of this message to me from ,paine4 ,i stated this circum- stance to ,f4 ,kohlmann1 at breakfast1 and requested him to accompany me4 ,after some solicitation on my part he agreed to do so8 at which ,i was greatly rejoiced1 because ,i was at the time quite young and inexperienced in the ministry1 and was glad to have his assistance1 as ,i knew1 from the great reputation of ,paine1 that ,i should have to do with one of the most impious as well as infamous of men4 ,we shortly after set out for the house at ,greenwich where ,paine lodged1 and on the way agreed on a mode of proceeding with him4 ,we arrived at the house2 a decent-looking elderly woman 7probably his housekeeper17 came to the door and inquired whether we were the ,catholic priests1 for said she1 ',mr4 ,paine has been so much annoyed of late by other denominations calling upon him that he has left express orders with me to admit no one to-day but the clergymen of the ,catholic ,church4 ,upon assuring her that we were ,catholic #eab clergymen she opened the door and showed us into the parlor4 ,she then left the room and shortly after returned to inform us that ,paine was asleep1 and1 at the same time1 expressed a wish that we would not disturb him1 'for1' said she1 'he is always in a bad humor when roused out of his sleep4 ,it is better we wait a little till he be awake4' ,we accordingly sat down and resolved to await a more favorable moment4 ',gentlemen1' said the lady1 after having taken her seat also1 ',i really wish you may succeed with ,mr4 ,paine1 for he is laboring under great distress of mind ever since he was informed by his physicians that he cannot possibly live and must die shortly4 ,he sent for you to-day because he was told that if any one could do him good you might4 ,possibly he may think you know of some remedy which his physicians are ignorant of4 ,he is truly to be pitied4 ,his cries when he is left alone are heart-rending4 ',o ,lord help me6' he will exclaim during his paroxysms of distress--',god help me--,jesus ,christ help me6' repeating the same expressions without the least variation1 in a tone of voice that would alarm the house4 ,sometimes he will say1 ',o ,god1 what have ,i done to suffer so much6' then1 shortly after1 ',but there is no ,god1' and again a little after1 ',yet if there should be1 what would become of me hereafter4' #eac ,thus he will continue for some time1 when on a sud- den he will scream1 as if in terror and agony1 and call out for me by name4 ,on one of these occasions1 which are very frequent1 ,i went to him and inquired what he wanted4 ',stay with me1' he replied1 'for ,god's sake1 for ,i cannot bear to be left alone4' ,i then observed that ,i could not always be with him1 as ,i had much to attend to in the house4 ',then1' said he1 'send even a child to stay with me1 for it is a hell to be alone4' ',i never saw1' she concluded1 'a more unhappy1 a more forsaken man4 ,it seems he cannot reconcile himself to die4' ,such was the conversation of the woman who had received us1 and who probably had been employ- ed to nurse and take care of him during his illness4 ,she was a ,protestant1 yet seemed very desirous that we should afford him some relief in his state of abandonment1 bordering on complete despair4 ,hav- ing remained thus some time in the parlor1 we at length heard a noise in the adjoining passage-way1 which induced us to believe that ,mr4 ,paine1 who was sick in that room1 had awoke4 ,we accordingly pro- posed to proceed thither1 which was assented to by the woman1 and she opened the door for us4 ,on entering1 we found him just getting out of his slumber4 ,a more wretched being in appearance ,i #ead never beheld4 ,he was lying in a bed sufficiently decent of itself1 but at present besmeared with filth2 his look was that of a man greatly tortured in mind2 his eyes haggard1 his countenance forbidding1 and his whole appearance that of one whose better days had been one continued scene of debauch4 ,his only nourishment at this time1 as we were informed1 was nothing more than milk punch1 in which he indulged to the full extent of his weak state4 ,he had par- taken1 undoubtedly1 but very recently of it1 as the sides and corners of his mouth exhibited very un- equivocal traces of it1 as well as of blood1 which had also followed in the track and left its mark on the pillow4 ,his face1 to a certain extent1 had also been besmeared with it4 ,immediately upon their making known the object of their visit1 ,paine interrupted the speaker by say- ing3 ,that's enough1 sir2 that's enough1 and again interrupting him1 ,i see what you would be about4 ,i wish to hear no more from you1 sir4 ,my mind is made up on that subject4 ,i look upon the whole of the ,christian scheme to be a tissue of absurdities and lies1 and ,jesus ,christ to be nothing more than a cunning knave and impostor4 ,he drove them out of the room1 exclaiming3 ,away with you and your ,god1 too2 leave the room instantly2 all that you #eae have uttered are lies--filthy lies2 and if ,i had a little more time ,i would prove it1 as ,i did about your impostor1 ,jesus ,christ4 ,this1 we think1 will suffice4 ,we have a mass of letters containing statements confirmatory of what we have published in regard to the life and death of ,paine1 but nothing more can be required4 ,,ingersoll',s ,,second ,,reply4 ,peoria1 ,nov4 #b;d1 #ahgg4 ,to the ,editor of the ,new ,york ,observer3 ,you ought to have honesty enough to admit that you did1 in your paper of ,july #aith1 offer to prove that the absurd story that ,thomas ,paine died in terror and agony on account of the religious opinions he had expressed1 was true4 ,you ought to have fairness enough to admit that you called upon me to deposit one thousand dollars with an honest man1 that you might1 by proving that ,thomas ,paine did die in terror1 obtain the money4 ,you ought to have honor enough to admit that you challenged me and that you commenced the controversy concerning ,thomas ,paine4 ,you ought to have goodness enough to admit that you were mistaken in the charges you made4 ,you ought to have manhood enough to do what you falsely asserted that ,thomas ,paine did3--you ought to recant4 ,you ought to admit publicly that you slandered the dead2 that you falsified history2 that you defamed the defenceless2 that you deliber- #eag ately denied what you had published in your own paper4 ,there is an old saying to the effect that open confession is good for the soul4 ,to you is presented a splendid opportunity of testing the truth of this saying4 ,nothing has astonished me more than your lack of common honesty exhibited in this controversy4 ,in your last1 you quote from ,dr4 ,j4 ,w4 ,francis4 ,why did you leave out that portion in which ,dr4 ,francis says that ,cheetham with settled malignity wrote the life of ,paine8 ,why did you leave out that part in which ,dr4 ,francis says that ,cheetham in the same way slandered ,alexander ,hamilton and ,de ,witt ,clinton8 ,is it your business to suppress the truth8 ,why did you not publish the entire letter of ,bishop ,fenwick8 ,was it because it proved beyond all cavil that ,thomas ,paine did not recant8 ,was it because in the light of that letter ,mary ,roscoe1 ,mary ,hinsdale and ,grant ,thorburn appeared un- worthy of belief8 ,dr4 ,j4 ,w4 ,francis says in the same article from which you quoted1 ,paine clung to his ,infidelity until the last moment of his life6' ,why did you not publish that8 ,it was the first line im- mediately above what you did quote4 ,you must have seen it4 ,why did you suppress it8 ,a lawyer1 doing a thing of this character1 is denominated a #eah shyster4 ,i do not know the appropriate word to designate a theologian guilty of such an act4 ,you brought forward three witnesses1 pretending to have personal knowledge about the life and death of ,thomas ,paine3 ,grant ,thorburn1 ,mary ,roscoe and ,mary ,hinsdale4 ,in my reply ,i took the ground that ,mary ,roscoe and ,mary ,hinsdale must have been the same person4 ,i thought it impossible that ,paine should have had a conversation with ,mary ,roscoe1 and then one precisely like it with ,mary ,hinsdale4 ,acting upon this conviction1 ,i proceeded to show that the conversation never could have hap- pened1 that it was absurdly false to say that ,paine asked the opinion of a girl as to his works who had never read but little of them4 ,i then showed by the testimony of ,william ,cobbett1 that he visited ,mary ,hinsdale in #ahai1 taking with him a statement con- cerning the recantation of ,paine1 given him by ,mr4 ,collins1 and that upon being shown this statement she said that it was so long ago that she could not speak positively to any part of the matter--that she would not say any part of the paper was true4 ,at that time she knew nothing1 and remembered noth- ing4 ,i also showed that she was a kind of standing witness to prove that others recanted4 ,willett ,hicks denounced her as unworthy of belief4 #eai ,to-day the following from the ,new ,york ,world was received1 showing that ,i was right in my conjecture3 ,tom ,paine's ,death-,bed4 ,to the ,editor of the ,world3 ,sir3 ,i see by your paper that ,bob ,ingersoll dis- credits ,mary ,hinsdale's story of the scenes which occurred at the death-bed of ,thomas ,paine4 ,no one who knew that good lady would for one moment doubt her veracity or question her testimony4 ,both she and her husband were ,quaker preachers1 and well known and respected inhabitants of ,new ,york ,city1 ,ingersoll is right in his conjecture that ,mary ,roscoe and ,mary ,hinsdale was the same person4 ,her maiden name was ,roscoe1 and she married ,henry ,hinsdale4 ,my mother was a ,roscoe1 a niece of ,mary ,roscoe1 and lived with her for some time4 ,i have heard her relate the story of ,tom ,paine's dying remorse1 as told her by her aunt1 who was a witness to it4 ,she says 7in a letter ,i have just received from her71 he 7,tom ,paine7 suffered fearfully from remorse1 and renounced his ,infidel principles1 calling on ,god to forgive him1 and wishing his pamphlets and books to be burned1 saying he could not die in peace until it was done4 7,rev47 ,a4 ,w4 ,cornell4 ,harpersville1 ,new ,york4 #ebj ,you will notice that the testimony of ,mary ,hins- dale has been drawing interest since #ahji1 and has materially increased4 ,if ,paine suffered fearfully from remorse1 renounced his ,infidel opinions and called on ,god to forgive him1 it is hardly generous for the ,christian world to fasten the fangs of malice in the flesh of his reputation4 ,so ,mary ,roscoe was ,mary ,hinsdale1 and as ,mary ,hinsdale has been shown by her own admis- sion to ,mr4 ,cobbett to have known nothing of the matter2 and as ,mary ,hinsdale was not1 according to ,willet ,hicks1 worthy of belief--as she told a false- hood of the same kind about ,mary ,lockwood1 and was1 according to ,mr4 ,collins1 addicted to the use of opium--this disposes of her and her testimony4 ,there remains upon the stand ,grant ,thorburn4 ,concerning this witness1 ,i received1 yesterday1 from the eminent biographer and essayist1 ,james ,parton1 the following epistle3 ,newburyport1 ,mass4 ,col4 ,r4 ,g4 ,ingersoll3 ,touching ,grant ,thorburn1 ,i personally know him to have been a dishonest man4 ,at the age of ninety- two he copied1 with trembling hand1 a piece from a newspaper and brought it to the office of the ,home ,journal1 as his own4 ,it was ,i who received it and #eba detected the deliberate forgery4 ,if you are ever go- ing to continue this subject1 ,i will give you the exact facts4 ,fervently yours1 ,james ,parton4 ,after this1 you are welcome to what remains of ,grant ,thorburn4 ,there is one thing that ,i have noticed during this controversy regarding ,thomas ,paine4 ,in no instance that ,i now call to mind has any ,christian writer spoken respectfully of ,mr4 ,paine4 ,all have taken particular pains to call him ,tom ,paine4 ,is it not a little strange that religion should make men so coarse and ill-mannered8 ,i have often wondered what these same gentle- men would say if ,i should speak of the men eminent in the annals of ,christianity in the same way4 ,what would they say if ,i should write about ,tim ,dwight1 old ,ad ,clark1 ,tom ,scott1 ,jim ,mc,knight1 ,bill ,hamilton1 ,dick ,whately1 ,bill ,paley1 and ,jack ,calvin8 ,they would say of me then1 just what ,i think of them now4 ,even if we have religion1 do not let us try to get along without good manners4 ,rudeness is exceed- ingly unbecoming1 even in a saint4 ,persons who #ebb forgive their enemies ought1 to say the least1 to treat with politeness those who have never injured them4 ,it is exceedingly gratifying to me that ,i have com- pelled you to say that ,paine died a blaspheming ,infidel4 ,hereafter it is to be hoped nothing will be heard about his having recanted4 ,as an answer to such slander his friends can confidently quote the following from the ,new ,york ,observer of ,november ist1 #ahgg3 ,,we ,,have ,,never ,,stated ,,in ,,any ,,form1 ,,nor ,,have ,,we ,,ever ,,supposed ,,that ,,paine ,,actually ,,re- ,,nounced ,,his ,,infidelity4 ,,the ,,accounts ,,agree ,,in ,,stating ,,that ,,he ,,died ,a ,,blaspheming ,,infidel4 ,this for all coming time will refute the slanders of the churches yet to be4 ,right here allow me to ask3 ,if you never supposed that ,paine renounced his ,infidelity1 why did you try to prove by ,mary ,hinsdale that which you believed to be untrue8 ,from the bottom of my heart ,i thank myself for having compelled you to admit that ,thomas ,paine did not recant4 ,for the purpose of verifying your own admission concerning the death of ,mr4 ,paine1 permit me to call your attention to the following affidavit3 #ebc ,wabash1 ,indiana1 ,october #bg1 #ahgg4 ,col4 ,r4 ,g4 ,ingersoll3 ,dear ,sir3 ,the following statement of facts is at your disposal4 ,in the year #ahcc ,willet ,hicks made a visit to ,indiana and stayed over night at my father's house1 four miles east of ,richmond4 ,in the morn- ing at breakfast my mother asked ,willet ,hicks the following questions3 ,was thee with ,thomas ,paine during his last sickness8 ,mr4 ,hicks said3 ,i was with him every day dur- ing the latter part of his last sickness4 ,did he express any regret in regard to writing the ',age of ,reason1' as the published accounts say he did--those accounts that have the credit of ema- nating from his ,catholic housekeeper8 ,mr4 ,hicks replied3 ,he did not in any way by word or action4 ,did he call on ,god or ,jesus ,christ1 asking either of them to forgive his sins1 or did he curse them or either of them8 ,mr4 ,hicks answered3 ,he did not4 ,he died as easy as any one ,i ever saw die1 and ,i have seen many die in my time4 ,william ,b ,barnes4 ,subscribed and sworn to before me ,oct4 #bg1 #ahgg4 ,warren ,bigler1 ,notary ,public4 #ebd ,you say in your last that ,thomas ,paine was abandoned of ,god4 ,so far as this controversy is concerned1 it seems to me that in that sentence you have most graphically described your own condi- tion4 ,wishing you success in all honest undertakings1 ,i remain1 ,yours truly1 ,robert ,g4 ,ingersoll4