,dorothy ,page                          
,,by                      ,,eldridge ,b4
 ,,hatcher                              
,,author ,,of                      ,,the
 ,,young ,,professor                    
,,and                          ,,the    
,,hittites                              
#aiab                  ,,baptist ,,world
 ,,publishing ,,co4                     
,,incorporated                          
,,louisville1 ,,ky4                     
,copyright1 #aiab1                      
by                  ,,baptist ,,world   
,,publishing ,,co4                      
,,contents4                ,i4 ,,dorothy
 ,,arrives                     #e       
,,ii4 ,,dorothy',s ,,conversion         
#i             ,,iii4 ,,sterling        
,,states ,,his ,,case           #ai     
,,iv4 ,,getting ,,into ,,deep ,,water   
#bi               ,v4 ,,handling ,,the  
,,three ,,thousand        #cg           
,,vi4 ,,one ,,point ,,gained            
#ee             ,,vii4 ,,the ,,call     
,,for ,,reinforcements        #fc       

,,viii4 ,,wronging ,,the ,,little ,,ones
           #ge              ,,ix4       
,,circumcision ,,to ,,the ,,rescue      
#hc               ,x4 ,,the ,,disciple  
,,preacher              #ie             
,,xi4 ,a ,,baptist ,,on ,,the ,,witness 
,,stand    #aai             ,,xii4      
,,discovery                         #aci
            ,,xiii4 ,,baptist           
,,principles ,,on ,,the ,,march   #aec  
,,xiv4 ,,sterling ,,brings ,,in ,,his   
,,reserves   #afi              ,,xv4    
,,crossing ,,the ,,rubicon              
#agi             ,,xvi4 ,,sterling      
,,scores                   #ahi         
,,to ,,those ,,who                      
,,seek ,,the ,,truth ,,and ,,pursue     
,,it4                            ,e4 ,b4
 ,h4     ,,chapter ,i4  ,,dorothy       
,,arrives4   ,you may see her tonight1  
said ,mrs4 ,sterling to her son         
,gilbert4  ,when does she arrive8  ,at  
six-twenty this afternoon4 ,they say1   
son1 she is beautiful4  ,from what point
 of the compass does the lovely paragon 

come8 asked ,sterling with a smile4     
,she has just graduated from some       
college in the ,north4 ,her father and  
mother went to be with her in the       
closing exercises and will bring her    
home today4  ,the subject of this       
conversation was ,dorothy ,page1 whose  
palatial home was next door to the home 
of the ,sterlings4 ,the two families had
 become friends as well as neighbors4   
,come over this evening1 ,sterling1 and 
help me to celebrate the arrival of the 
family1 called out ,roland ,page from   
his porch4  ,sterling agreed4  ,at half 
past eight o'clock1 as he entered the   
library of the ,page home1 he looked    
upon what seemed to him the most        
beautiful girl his imagination had ever 
pictured4 ,he knew in a moment that he  
was a captive4 ,as he walked down the   
front steps after his visit he felt sure
 that an epoch in his life had occurred4
  ,a splendid young fellow6 remarked    
,mr4 ,page after ,sterling had left4    
,although he is only twenty-nine years  

of age1 he has in his own right a cool  
two million-dollar fortune4 ,he         
inherited it from his father and he     
himself is one of the most progressive  
business men in the state and seems bent
 on using his fortune for the good of   
society4  ,he was very quiet1 remarked  
,dorothy4  ,mr4 ,page's statements      
concerning ,sterling were very true4 ,he
 might have added that ,sterling was an 
elder in the ,presbyterian church and   
was one of its most devoted members4    
,sterling found his mother in the       
sitting-room on his return home that    
night4  ,well1 son1 she said1 how do you
 like your new neighbor8  ,mother1 don't
 ask me to describe her1 he replied2 and
 then for half an hour he continued     
talking about her4 ,before retiring he  
said3  ,mother1 how is it that ,i have  
never been told about ,miss ,page       
before8  ,well1 son1 ,i have known very 
little myself4 ,the ,pages1 you know1   
have lived here less than a year and    
,dorothy has never been here before4 ,a 

few days before ,mrs4 ,page left to     
bring ,dorothy home she told me a good  
many things about her4  ,how long was   
,miss ,page at the college8  ,three     
years4 ,the ,pages were born in         
,virginia1 but when ,dorothy was six    
years old the father1 because of failing
 health1 purchased a large ranch in the 
,west and he moved his family there and 
became very prosperous4  ,she is a      
child1 therefore1 of the ,south and     
,west1 said ,sterling4  ,yes1 she has   
,southern blood and ,western experience4
 ,mrs4 ,page said their home was ten    
miles from the nearest store and the    
nearest neighbor was seven miles        
distant4  ,that must have been a dismal 
life for ,dorothy4 ,you say she lived on
 the plains from six years of age until 
three years ago1 when she went to the   
college8 ,did she have no other         
schooling8  ,oh1 yes4 ,her education was
 directed at home by a governess of     
unusual culture and refinement4 ,i      
learned also from ,mrs4 ,page that none 

of the family make any pretensions to   
religion1 and that the governess was as 
irreligious as they4  ,what a home6     
,she said that there was no church near 
them in the ,west and that ,dorothy had 
never been in a church up to the time   
she went off to the college1 and that   
she doubted if she had ever attended    
church while there4  ,you make her out a
 wild girl of the plains1 remarked      
,sterling with a smile4 ,i could easily 
see the traces of it tonight in her     
open1 eager1 almost wild manner1 and yet
 through it all there was a culture1 a  
sweetness1 a loveliness that is         
indescribable4  ,mrs4 ,sterling         
continued3 ,mrs4 ,page said that        
,dorothy1 perfectly at home on the      
wildest horse1 roamed untrammeled over  
the ranch1 and reveled in its beauty and
 its freedom4 ,but let me continue the  
story4 ,at seventeen she went to        
,carrollton ,college and at the end of  
three years she won her diploma4  ,i'll 
venture she came out at the head of the 

list1 mother2 she is as bright and      
sparkling as a diamond4  ,you are right1
 for she took the honors of her class4  
,a year ago ,mr4 ,page sold his ranch   
and came here to ,kentucky to live1 but 
this is ,dorothy's first sight of her   
,kentucky home4     ,,chapter ,,ii4     
,,dorothy',s ,,conversion4   ,oh1 a     
tennis court6 ,how glorious6 exclaimed  
,dorothy next morning as she stepped out
 on the porch and caught her first      
glimpse of the side lawn4  ,sterling    
considered it a special providence that 
no intervening fence separated the two  
residences1 and nearly every afternoon  
found him on the tennis grounds1 an     
eager contestant in the game with       
,dorothy4  ,good-bye1 ,mr4 ,sterling1   
she said to him one afternoon at the    
close of the game4 ,i must hurry in and 
do some packing4 ,i shall turn traveler 
tomorrow4  ,what--going away8 he asked  
with a startled expression4  ,yes1 ,i am
 going to ,chicago for a few weeks to   
visit a girl friend4  ,the light fled   

from the sky for ,sterling4 ,for the    
next three weeks not only ,dorothy1 but 
the center of the universe seemed to him
 to be located in ,chicago4  ,during    
,dorothy's visit a crisis occurred in   
her life4 ,while attending a church     
service with her girl friend she heard a
 strange sermon4 ,how new and startling 
it sounded4 ,the preacher's theme was   
,salvation ,through ,christ1 and she    
heard things she had never dreamed of   
before4 ,wild questionings set her heart
 aflame and there was no rest for her   
that night4 ,her soul's destiny was a   
subject to which she had never given    
serious reflection4  ,she felt that the 
man whose sermon had thrown her into    
this dark confusion was the only one who
 might give her light4 ,she sought him  
out4 ,a father in ,israel he was--,rev4 
,dr4 ,moreland1 one of the most eminent 
ministers in that city4 ,he saw that as 
a little child she was eagerly groping  
in the dark1 and with the ,bible as a   
lamp he led her step by step into the   

light4 ,she saw herself in ,god's sight 
a sinner1 guilty and condemned1 and how 
helpless and hopeless to her seemed her 
condition4  ,the story of the ,gospel   
sounded to her like music from ,heaven4 
,the love of ,christ for sinners melted 
her heart and she yielded herself in    
child-like trust to him4 ,in her own    
room at night the surrender was made and
 it was complete4  ,son1 ,i could easily
 tell that ,dorothy is coming tomorrow1 
said ,mrs4 ,sterling4  ,how do you know1
 mother8  ,by your face4 ,you would have
 passed for an undertaker during the    
past three weeks1 and ,i have tried by  
every art1 but in vain1 to chase away   
your funereal countenance4  ,sterling   
broke into a hearty laugh4  ,mother1    
your imagination is out on a frolic4    
,you will have to put a bridle on it4   
,mrs4 ,sterling was right4 ,gilbert had 
learned that ,dorothy would arrive on   
the morrow4  ,dorothy had written her   
parents about her new-found joy1 but    
they understood it not4 ,they thought   

that it was some girlish emotion that   
her home life would quickly dissipate4  
,the news of her conversion came to     
,sterling as a burst of sunlight4 ,in   
speaking of it to his mother he said3   
,of one thing ,i am sure1 and that is   
that she will make a glorious           
,christian4 ,what a light she will be in
 her home4 ,and1 mother1 how fine to    
have her in my church6  ,dorothy had    
shortened her visit that she might hurry
 home and tell her loved ones of the    
change in her life4 ,she could not      
explain the change1 but she knew that   
for her old things had passed away and  
all things had become new4  ,she was    
anxious to tell her parents the simple  
story of ,christ's love and sacrifice   
for sinners4 ,she recited it almost     
immediately after her return1 but their 
eyes seemed holden that they could not  
see4 ,possibly they did not want to see4
 ,at any rate1 ,dorothy received her    
first biting disappointment in the      
reception that her parents gave to her  

report about her new-found ,savior4     
,with ,mr4 ,sterling it was different1  
and in him she found a sympathetic      
listener to her story4 ,not that she    
impulsively bared her secrets to him2 he
 was eager to know it all1 and his keen 
interest in contrast to the utter lack  
of responsiveness on the part of the    
parents encouraged her to confide in    
him1 and to ,dorothy1 with her new and  
trembling faith1 ,sterling was a friend 
in need4  ,a week had passed after her  
return1 and one afternoon ,sterling said
 to her at the close of a tennis game   
that her coming into his church would   
make their membership exactly #cjj4     
,mr4 ,sterling1 she replied1 ,i am      
anxious to talk with your pastor1 ,dr4  
,vincent1 about which church ,i ought to
 join4  ,her words smote him4 ,the      
possibility of her uniting with any     
other church than his own had not       
occurred to him1 and the bare thought of
 it put a load on his heart4 ,he asked  
her what she meant by her remark        

regarding ,dr4 ,vincent4  ,dear old ,dr4
 ,moreland1 she said1 whose church ,i   
attended in ,chicago1 and who so kindly 
led me into the light1 told me that ,i  
must be sure to join some church1 and   
when ,i asked him what church it should 
be he told me that ,i must study my ,new
 ,testament and let that guide me4 ,i   
have carefully read it through twice1   
and ,i cannot see that it has helped me 
at all to decide about my church        
membership4 ,i really do not know what  
he meant4  ,sterling was relieved and   
the load rolled off his heart1 for he   
felt sure that with her ,new ,testament 
as her guide she would turn her steps   
towards the ,presbyterian church4  ,by  
this time they had reached the front    
porch1 where the rest of the family were
 seated1 and when ,dorothy made her last
 remark the brother1 who was sitting    
nearby1 heard and said3  ,what's the    
need1 sister1 of your joining any       
church8 ,you don't think the church will
 take you to ,heaven1 do you8  ,hold on1

 son1 spoke up the father1 ,i am not an 
expert on religious matters1 but it is a
 plain proposition to me that if        
,dorothy has accepted ,christianity and 
become a ,christian1 the place for her  
is the church4  ,but what good will it  
do1 father8  ,i believe in a person     
being one thing or the other1 said ,mr4 
,page4 ,if you are not a ,christian1    
then of course keep out of the church2  
if you set up to be a ,christian1 then  
take your medicine2 if you claim to be a
 soldier1 then march up and put on the  
uniform and join the army4  ,oh1 ,i     
never thought of not joining a church1  
said ,dorothy4  ,but ,i still hang to my
 point1 said the brother4 ,why does     
,dorothy have to join the church8 ,do   
you think1 sister1 joining the church   
will save you8  ,what a question1       
brother6 ,of course not4 ,i hope ,i am  
saved already4 ,i have faith in ,christ 
and ,i am looking to him for my         
salvation4 ,simply having my name       
entered as a church member will not save

 me2 ,i am very ignorant about these    
matters1 but ,dr4 ,moreland told me that
 ,christ founded the church as the place
 in which he wished all who believed in 
him to be gathered4 ,if he formed the   
church for his believers1 then is it not
 the place for me8  ,daughter1 you are  
right there to a dot4 ,if ,christ       
organized the church for his followers  
and you have given yourself to him1 then
 if you should refuse to enter the      
church ,i should doubt whether you had  
given yourself to him2 but ,i think you 
are wrong on one point4 ,you spoke just 
now about studying the ,bible to learn  
what church you ought to join4 ,that's  
one on me4 ,i never knew the ,bible told
 a person what church he ought to join2 
in fact1 ,i did not think it made any   
difference what church or denomination a
 person selected4 ,i thought it was just
 pay your money and take your choice4   
,i thought1 said the mother1 that all   
the churches were aiming in the same    
direction and that all claimed to be    

founded on the ,bible4 ,do you think1   
daughter1 that the ,bible will tell you 
to join one particular church or        
denomination rather than some other8    
,mother1 you are right there1 as you    
generally are1 said the father4 ,here is
 the ,presbyterian church1 the only     
strong church in town1 and it seems to  
be a mighty good one from all that ,i   
can hear of it4 ,do you imagine1        
daughter1 that you must study the ,bible
 to learn whether it will tell you to   
join this church or some other church   
that may be off somewhere nobody knows  
where8  ,dorothy seemed lost in         
reflection4  ,i wonder what ,dr4        
,moreland could have meant8 she said4 ,i
 notice there are different names by    
which the churches are known3 for       
example1 the ,presbyterians1 the        
,methodists1 etc4 ,they call them1 ,i   
believe1 denominations4 ,are these      
denominations the same8 ,why do they    
have the different names1 and why do    
some people join one denomination and   

some another8  ,that is not strange1    
daughter1 spoke up the father4 ,there   
are different kinds of dresses1 and one 
woman prefers one kind and another      
another4 ,some people like the          
,presbyterian church1 some the          
,methodist church and so on4 ,it is not 
a ,bible question1 simply a question of 
taste4  ,miss ,dorothy1 the             
denominations differ in matters of      
doctrine1 said ,mr4 ,sterling4  ,you    
mean1 then1 said ,dorothy1 a light      
coming into her eye1 that the people who
 believe that the ,bible teaches certain
 doctrines go into one church1 and the  
people who believe that it teaches      
another set of doctrines go into another
 church1 and that each one joins the    
church of his own beliefs8  ,you are    
entirely correct1 said ,sterling1       
confident that when she compared the    
denominations his church would win the  
day4 ,the ,presbyterian church is       
founded on the bed rock of ,scripture   
and draws its life blood from its sacred

 pages4  ,do you not see1 father1 said  
,dorothy1 that in order for me to decide
 which church ,i ought to join ,i must  
study the ,bible for myself and then    
join the church that seems to come      
nearest to what the ,bible seems to me  
to teach8  ,i don't agree with you1     
sister1 said ,roland4 ,you say you must 
join the church that comes nearest to   
what the ,bible seems to you to teach4  
,but you know very little about what the
 ,bible teaches4 ,had you not better    
take what old ,dr4 ,vincent1 who has    
been a life-long student of the ,bible1 
says the ,bible teaches than to take    
what you1 after a few readings1 decide  
it teaches8 ,why1 certainly4 ,i'd rather
 a thousand times trust him to tell me  
what that ,book teaches than for me to  
decide myself4  ,but1 brother1 ,i think 
you miss the point4 ,dr4 ,vincent can   
tell me what he thinks the ,bible       
teaches1 but some learned minister in   
another denomination might tell me the  
,bible taught something different4 ,mr4 

,sterling says each denomination has its
 own doctrines which it believes the    
,bible teaches4 ,if ,i am going to take 
what some learned ,bible student says1  
then which one must ,i follow8 ,one will
 tell me that the ,bible teaches the    
,presbyterian doctrines and another will
 tell me it teaches the ,methodist      
doctrines4  ,exactly2 and no matter what
 you do you cannot be sure you are      
right4 ,i think one is about as apt to  
be right as the other4 ,the only thing  
is to take a man that you believe is an 
honest and wise student of the ,book and
 ask him to tell you its teachings4     
,oh1 brother1 that doesn't appeal to me 
at all4 ,i dare not take another        
person's word for what this ,bible      
teaches4 ,i can take his counsel and the
 counsel of everybody else that ,i can  
secure1 but ,i must give the final      
decision1 ,i must study this ,book for  
myself4 ,dr4 ,vincent is a good and wise
 man1 of course1 but ,i cannot look into
 his heart for all the thoughts that    

have led him to his decision4 ,the      
question before me is not what church   
does ,mr4 ,vincent think comes nearest  
the ,bible1 but what church do ,i think 
comes the nearest4  ,daughter1 said ,mr4
 ,page1 you are on the right track4 ,you
 can get all the light possible from    
,dr4 ,vincent and anybody else you      
choose1 but you are the judge that must 
bring in the verdict1 and when you make 
the decision there is no court of       
appeals4 ,but you have a huge job on    
your hands4 ,you must first study all   
the denominations and then you've got to
 master your ,bible to see which one of 
all the denominations squares with the  
,book4  ,oh1 said ,dorothy in a tone of 
despair1 how can ,i ever decide such a  
big question8 ,won't you help me1 ,mr4  
,sterling8  ,sterling felt that he would
 like to spend several centuries1       
beginning with that very second1 in the 
single matter of helping her4 ,he       
remarked with a smile3 ,miss ,dorothy1  
,i think you need not be alarmed2 you   

are not as much in the wilderness as you
 imagine4 ,suppose on examination you   
find that the doctrines of our church   
are in accord with the teachings of the 
,bible1 then your duty is plain1 is it  
not8  ,yes1 she replied with a sigh of  
relief1 and won't you tell me what are  
the doctrines of your church8  ,his eyes
 answered her request before his lips   
had an opportunity to respond4  ,now you
 are getting out into the road1 said the
 father4 ,tell it to her1 ,friend       
,sterling1 and ,i guess she will find   
that your church plumbs the track4 ,in  
fact1 ,i reckon most of them do4        
,dinner is ready1 called the mother4    
,there1 now1 said the father1 that      
breaks up the meeting at the critical   
point1 but come in to dinner1 ,sterling1
 and we will open the campaign again    
after dinner4  ,yes1 please do come1    
,mr4 ,sterling1 said ,dorothy4 ,i am so 
anxious to know what are the doctrines  
of your church4  ,sterling was compelled
 to decline1 inasmuch as he had promised

 to be at home for dinner to meet a     
business friend of his father's1 but he 
assured them that he would be on hand   
for the discussion very soon after      
dinner4     ,,chapter ,,iii4  ,,sterling
 ,,states ,,his ,,case4   ,at eight     
o'clock they gathered in the library4   
,now1 ,sterling1 said ,mr4 ,page1 we are
 all attention4 ,open up your           
,presbyterian treasures1 for you have   
our curiosity aroused4  ,sterling was   
anxious to bring to ,dorothy's attention
 the facts about his denomination4 ,he  
felt confident that the history and     
doctrines of ,presbyterianism would     
prove very attractive to her and lead   
her into his church4  ,i fear ,i cannot 
do my denomination justice1 he said4 ,it
 deserves an abler champion4 ,it has had
 an illustrious history and on our honor
 roll are such notable names as ,john   
,calvin1 ,john ,knox1 ,thomas ,chalmers 
and a host of others4  ,what are the    
doctrines of your church1 ,mr4          
,sterling8 asked ,dorothy4  ,we believe 

in ,god as the creator and preserver of 
the world1 in ,christ as the ,savior of 
sinners1 and in the ,bible as the ,word 
of ,god4  ,how about those doctrines1   
daughter8 asked ,mr4 ,page4 ,can you    
accept them8  ,of course1 father4 ,the  
,bible teaches them plainly4  ,good6    
,give us some more1 ,sterling4  ,we     
believe that ,christ offered himself on 
the cross as a sacrifice for the sins of
 men1 that he was buried1 rose from the 
dead and ascended to ,heaven1 where he  
sits at the right hand of the ,father4  
,we believe in the ,holy ,spirit as     
being sent by the ,father to convict men
 of sin and righteousness and judgment  
to come4  ,what about that1 daughter8   
,father is pinning me down1 ,mr4        
,sterling1 as we go along1 she said with
 a smile4 ,i think ,i can accept those  
doctrines because the ,new ,testament   
teaches them--at least that is my       
recollection from my reading of the ,new
 ,testament4  ,we believe that ,christ  
in organizing the church gave two       

ordinances1 baptism and the ,lord's     
,supper2 that baptism is a sign and seal
 of ,god's regenerating grace and that  
the ,lord's ,supper is a memorial of his
 death--the bread typifying his broken  
body and the wine his shed blood4 ,we   
believe that ,christ speaks of his      
church as his bride4  ,yes1 ,i remember 
that4  ,sterling1 you seem to be making 
good progress1 said the father4 ,do you 
accept the doctrines as he has announced
 them thus far1 daughter8  ,i think so4 
,they seem to be in accord with what ,i 
have read4 ,i have only read the ,new   
,testament through twice4  ,in          
mentioning our doctrines1 he said1 ,i am
 not attempting a logical order1 nor am 
,i confining myself to strict           
theological terminology4 ,i am giving   
our doctrines just as they come before  
my mind4  ,go ahead1 said the father4 ,i
 think ,dorothy will soon find herself a
 ,presbyterian4  ,i ought to have       
stated1 continued ,mr4 ,sterling1 that  
we believe that salvation comes by faith

 in ,christ4 ,all of the redeemed in    
,christ will be received by him when he 
shall come again and shall live with him
 in everlasting happiness1 but the      
unbelievers will be banished into       
everlasting punishment4  ,hold on1 said 
,mr4 ,page2 you don't endorse that last 
awful doctrine1 do you1 daughter8  ,it  
is awful1 father1 but ,i have to endorse
 it1 for ,i have read it in the ,bible  
with my own eyes and ,i remember it was 
declared by ,christ himself4  ,sterling 
was delighted at the progress he was    
making4 ,the thought of ,dorothy coming 
into his church filled him with joy4    
,another doctrine1 he said3 ,we believe 
in ,christ's words concerning the little
 children--'of such is the ,kingdom of  
,heaven'--and that1 as ,peter said1     
,god's promise is unto his people and to
 their children and their children's    
children1 and as baptism is the door to 
the church--  ,oh1 yes1 exclaimed       
,dorothy1 ,i saw a baptism once4 ,do ,i 
have to be baptized1 too1 ,mr4          

,sterling8  ,yes1 indeed4  ,that was a  
very interesting baptism ,i saw in      
,nebraska1 where ,i was visiting4 ,it   
was in a river and they put the people  
under the water4  ,oh1 ,miss ,dorothy1  
that was not baptism1 exclaimed         
,sterling1 apparently horrified by her  
remark4  ,it was not8 ,what was it1 ,mr4
 ,sterling8  ,it was merely an odd      
practice observed by certain curious    
sects4 ,i beg that you will get that    
well fixed in your mind4  ,well1 you    
know ,i have to learn about these       
things4 ,what do you mean then by       
baptism8  ,baptism is performed by      
having water sprinkled or poured gently 
upon the head of the candidate4 ,it is a
 very impressive ceremony4  ,that is    
strange1 for do you know ,i saw in the  
,bible just the kind of baptism that ,i 
witnessed that day in ,nebraska8  ,oh1  
never4 ,bible baptism is by sprinkling  
and sprinkling alone4  ,well1 ,i read in
 one or two places about people being   
baptized by being put under the water2  

that is1 unless ,i am very much         
mistaken4  ,hold on1 said the father4 ,i
 guess you had better clear up that     
point about baptism before you go any   
further4  ,not at all1 said ,sterling   
very earnestly2 there is nothing to     
clear up4 ,it is a plain fact of history
 as well as of ,bible teaching that     
baptism was done by sprinkling4  ,do the
 denominations differ about baptism8    
asked ,dorothy4  ,not worth talking     
about2 nearly all the denominations     
agree that the baptism of the ,bible is 
by sprinkling or pouring4  ,daughter1   
get your ,bible and let's see that      
passage where you say the people were   
put under the water4  ,i must not be too
 sure1 she replied4 ,i know so little   
about the ,book that ,i may have been   
mistaken1 but ,i don't think ,i can be4 
,the ,bible was brought in1 and as      
,dorothy opened it and began turning its
 pages she said3 ,one passage was the   
account of the baptism of ,jesus4       
,what6 exclaimed ,mr4 ,page4 ,was he    

baptized--,jesus ,christ8 ,well1 well1  
that's one on me4  ,oh1 father1 how can 
you speak so8  ,i beg your pardon1      
daughter4 ,i surely did not mean to be  
irreverent4 ,but let us have that       
passage telling how he was baptized4    
,that ought to be mighty interesting4   
,it is the third chapter of ,matthew1   
said ,mr4 ,sterling4  ,dorothy read3    
',then cometh ,jesus from ,galilee to   
,jordan unto ,john to be baptized of    
him4'  ,the ,jordan was a river1 was it 
not8 asked the father4  ,yes1 replied   
,sterling4  ,and you say that ,jesus    
went to that river to be baptized8 asked
 the father4  ,yes1 answered ,sterling4 
,and you say he went there to have some 
water sprinkled on him instead of being 
put under the water8  ,certainly he did4
  ,do people generally go to rivers now 
to be sprinkled8 asked ,dorothy4  ,i do 
not know that they do1 but they could   
certainly do so if they should so       
desire4  ,did you ever hear of anybody  
doing so8 asked the father4  ,why1      

possibly not2 but that doesn't prove    
that it never has been done2 but let us 
have the rest of the passage4  ,she     
read3 ',and ,jesus1 when he was         
baptized1 went up straightway out of the
 water4'  ,hello6 said the father1 that 
sounds curious4 ,why did he go down into
 the water1 ,sterling1 if he was simply 
to be sprinkled8  ,why1 he simply walked
 a little way into the stream and stood 
there while ,john gently sprinkled the  
water on him4 ,it must have been a      
beautiful ceremony4  ,dorothy was       
consulting her concordance4  ,here is   
another passage in the third chapter and
 twenty-third verse4  ,let us have it1  
said the father4  ,she read3 ',and ,john
 also was baptizing in ,aenon1 near to  
,salem1 because there was much water    
there4'  ,much water6 exclaimed ,mr4    
,page4 ,what about that1 ,friend        
,sterling8  ,i think that is plain4     
,there were great multitudes following  
,john and camping around him1 and he    
selected a place where there would be   

abundant water for the cattle4 ,the     
country was dry in many places4  ,but it
 says he was baptizing there because    
there was much water there1 said        
,dorothy4  ,that simply means that he   
did his baptizing in that section       
because of the abundance of the water   
for the cattle1 insisted ,sterling4     
,what is your reason1 ,mr4 ,sterling1   
asked ,dorothy1 for saying it was the   
cattle that ,john had in mind8  ,you    
mentioned the passage as indicating     
immersion1 continued ,sterling1 and ,i  
replied that the mention of much water  
did not necessarily prove immersion1    
because it may have had reference to the
 cattle rather than to the mode of the  
baptism4 ,and besides1 the dryness of   
that ,oriental country is another fact  
that indicates that ,john selected the  
place for watering the cattle4  ,but is 
it necessary to have a place of much    
water in order to water cattle8 asked   
,dorothy4 ,would not a small stream be  
sufficient for many cattle8  ,come1     

come1 children1 said the father1 why not
 take the words as you find them8 ,by   
the way1 did ,john do anything for the  
crowds except baptize them8  ,oh1 yes1  
said ,sterling1 he was a great preacher 
for the crowds4 ,that was his principal 
work4 ,baptism was a very small and     
almost insignificant part of it4 ,they  
did not make the ado about it then that 
certain sects do now4  ,exactly2 that is
 what ,i am getting at4 ,you say        
preaching was the main thing ,john was  
doing4 ,i should think1 then1 that if it
 was the cattle that made him select the
 place1 it would have read ',john was   
preaching at ,aenon because there was   
much water there'4 ,but it says he was  
baptizing there1 and that would indicate
 that the baptizing part of his work    
brought him to that place4 ,he could    
have preached where there was not much  
water4 ,you think1 ,sterling1 that his  
baptizing had nothing to do with his    
selecting that place4 ,why1 then1 did it
 say he was baptizing there because of  

the much water8 ,it looks mighty plain  
to me that the baptizing was mentioned  
because of the much water4  ,dorothy was
 puzzled4  ,i don't see how ,i am ever  
to get at the meaning of the ,bible1 she
 said1 if ,i am not to take what seems  
to be the natural meaning of the        
passages1 but must rather suppose that  
something else was intended4  ,evidently
 we can't agree on that verse1 said     
,sterling with a smile4 ,let us have    
another1 ,miss ,dorothy4  ,here is a    
passage1 ,acts #h3ce-ci3 ',then ,philip 
opened his mouth and began at the same  
,scripture and preached unto him ,jesus4
 ,and as they went on their way they    
came unto a certain water and the       
,eunuch said3 ,see1 here is water2 what 
doth hinder me to be baptized8 ,philip  
said3 ,if thou believeth with all thy   
heart thou mayest4 ,and he answered and 
said3 ,i believe that ,jesus ,christ is 
the ,son of ,god4 ,and he commanded the 
chariot to stand still and they went    
down both into the water1 ,philip and   

the ,eunuch1 and he baptized him4 ,and  
when they came up out of the water the  
,spirit of the ,lord caught away ,philip
 that the ,eunuch saw him no more1 and  
he went on his way rejoicing4'  ,you see
 they stepped down to the water's edge1 
said ,sterling1 and ,philip sprinkled   
him4  ,but it says they both went down  
into the water and both came up out of  
the water4 ,why did they go down into   
the water if the ,eunuch was simply to  
be sprinkled8  ,look here1 said the     
father2 life is too brief to be         
squandering it on debating a question   
like that4 ,that's as plain as a chimney
 on a house4 ,you could never make me   
think that all that going down into the 
water and coming up out of the water was
 simply to have a few drops of water    
sprinkled on the man4 ,sterling1 ,i know
 you don't mean to do so1 but it looks  
as if you are afraid of the natural     
meaning that lies on the surface4  ,but 
the surface meaning in the ,bible is not
 always the true one4 ,we know from     

other passages that baptism was by      
sprinkling1 and when we come to one like
 this1 that may mean either kind of     
baptism1 we know from the general       
teaching of ,scripture that sprinkling  
and not immersion was the mode here     
intended4     ,,chapter ,,iv4  ,,getting
 ,,into ,,deep ,,water4   ,here is      
another passage about baptism1 said     
,dorothy1 in ,luke #ab3ej3 ',i have a   
baptism to be baptized with1 and how am 
,i straitened till it be accomplished8' 
,but hold on1 ,miss ,dorothy1 said      
,sterling4 ,why should we be spending so
 much discussion simply on the question 
as to the quantity of water in baptism8 
,it seems a waste of effort4 ,there are 
far more important doctrines than this4 
,it is not simply the quantity of water 
we are considering1 ,mr4 ,sterling4 ,we 
are trying to find out how baptism is   
performed4 ,surely we ought to try to   
get it right4  ,that's good logic1 said 
the father4 ,get one point settled      
before you proceed to another4  ,all    

right1 said ,sterling with a smile1 ,i'm
 all attention4 ,read that passage      
again1 ,miss ,dorothy4  ,she read3 ',i  
have a baptism to be baptized with1 and 
how am ,i straitened till it be         
accomplished6'  ,who is that talking8   
asked ,mr4 ,page4  ,it is ,christ1 said 
,sterling1 and he is talking about his  
coming sufferings which were to end in  
his death4  ,and what is it he says     
about his sufferings8 ,read it again1   
daughter4  ,she read it once more4  ,you
 say1 ,sterling1 that ,christ here      
speaks of his future sufferings and said
 he was to be baptized in them8  ,no1 he
 does not say he will be baptized 'in'  
them1 but 'with' them1 thus showing that
 he was not to be immersed but          
sprinkled4  ,you mean1 then1 said       
,dorothy1 that ,christ said he was to be
 sprinkled with his sufferings8  ,yes4  
,but is it not far more impressive to   
think of ,christ being immersed in his  
terrible sufferings than simply of his  
having a few drops of suffering         

sprinkled on him8  ,certainly1 said ,mr4
 ,page2 we often speak of people being  
plunged1 overwhelmed1 in sorrow or      
suffering1 and that is nothing but an   
immersion4  ,but1 said ,sterling1 if he 
had meant immersion1 why did he not say 
he had a baptism that he had to be      
baptized 'in'8 ,but no2 he said he had a
 baptism to be baptized 'with'4  ,i     
don't think it makes any difference     
whether you use the word 'in' or 'with'1
 said ,dorothy4 ,when a person is       
immersed he is baptized 'with' water as 
well as 'in' water1 and when ,christ    
said he had a baptism to be baptized    
with--and ,mr4 ,sterling says he        
referred to his sufferings--why1 it is  
far more natural to think he had in mind
 an immersion1 an overwhelming1 rather  
than a mere sprinkling4  ,have you any  
more passages1 daughter8  ,after some   
examination she answered3 ,here is a    
strange passage1 ,romans #f3d3          
',therefore we are buried with him by   
baptism into death1 that like as ,christ

 was raised up from the dead by the     
glory of the ,father even so we also    
should walk in newness of life4'  ,isn't
 that a wonderful passage8 exclaimed    
,dorothy2 'buried with him by baptism'4 
,that looks like immersion4  ,that verse
 seems to be against you1 ,sterling1    
remarked ,mr4 ,page4  ,not at all4      
,christ is not talking here about water 
baptism4  ,what is that8 asked ,mr4     
,page quickly2 not talking about water  
baptism8 ,have you got still another    
kind of baptism8  ,certainly4 ,the      
,bible speaks of a baptism of the       
,spirit4 ,it is mentioned in several    
places4  ,all correct1 said ,mr4 ,page1 
and now proceed with your argument to   
show that the passage just read about   
baptism does not mean water baptism4    
,paul here speaks of a spiritual        
baptism4  ,why do you say that8 asked   
,dorothy4  ,the fire of questions seemed
 to stun ,sterling somewhat4 ,he had    
never had these passages pressed upon   
him in this fashion1 but all his life he

 had had an open track for his          
,presbyterian tenets4 ,he continued his 
explanation of the passage3  ,paul is   
here writing to people about their      
conversion and he is trying to show them
 that if they have been truly converted 
they must forsake sin4 ,he says here in 
the verse3 ',we who died to sin1 how    
shall we longer live therein8' ,you see 
he speaks of dying to sin1 and that     
brings him to the idea of a burial4 ,he 
wants to show them that when they were  
converted--if they were really          
converted--that their conversion was a  
baptism of the ,spirit2 that just as    
,christ died1 was buried and rose to a  
new life1 so the converted soul through 
the work 7or the baptism7 of the ,spirit
 on him died to his old life and rose to
 a new life1 and therefore such an one  
must not sin4 ,the passage therefore    
reads3 ',therefore we are buried with   
him by baptism into death1 that like as 
,christ was raised from the dead by the 
glory of the ,father1 even so we also   

must walk in newness of life4'  ,well1  
now1 let me see1 said the father4 ,you  
say the writer compares the conversion  
of a soul to a baptism of the ,spirit8  
,yes1 he speaks of it as a spiritual    
experience2 not a mere outward          
reformation1 but an inward spiritual    
experience1 and when he says buried with
 him by baptism he means a baptism of   
the ,spirit4  ,why does he call it a    
baptism8 asked ,dorothy4  ,that's the   
point exactly1 said the father4         
,sterling says the writer is not talking
 about a water baptism4 ,well1 ,i don't 
see why it may not be a water baptism4  
,it says nothing about a spiritual      
baptism4 ,but anyhow let it be a        
spiritual baptism2 the important point  
in this argument is that he calls it a  
baptism1 and note carefully he calls the
 baptism a burial4 ,no matter whether it
 is a water or a spiritual baptism that 
he is talking about1 he shows what his  
idea of a baptism was4 ,it was like a   
person being buried and being raised    

again4  ,i think1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 said  
,dorothy1 that the verse shows that the 
important thing about baptism is the way
 it is performed2 that it is not water  
that makes the baptism2 that it may be  
water1 or it may be the ,spirit1 or     
possibly it may be something else2 but  
that the important thing is the way it  
is performed4 ,in other words1 it must  
be like a burial and a rising again4 ,it
 looks to me as if ,paul is showing what
 a wonderful experience a person's      
conversion is4  ,exactly1 said the      
father1 and ,i suppose the writer could 
not express that spiritual change in    
conversion better than to call it a     
baptism by the ,spirit1 and he showed   
mighty clearly his notion about baptism2
 to him it was a burial and a rising    
again4'  ,i think there is something    
more wonderful still about that passage1
 said ,dorothy4 ,i think you can see two
 baptisms in the verse1 the water       
baptism and the ,spirit baptism4 ,paul  
draws a picture of the conversion of a  

soul4 ,it is a change worked in the soul
 by the ,spirit1 and as the ,spirit     
works on the soul the soul dies to his  
old life and rises to a new life4 ,but  
that is just like what takes place when 
the person is baptized in water4 ,he is 
buried out of sight in the water and    
then rises again1 and the water baptism 
is an exact picture of the spiritual    
baptism4 ,surely ,paul must have had the
 two baptisms in mind when he wrote     
this4  ,it looks mightily that way1 said
 ,mr4 ,page4  ,another thing1 said      
,dorothy1 all aglow with her            
interpretation of the passage1 doesn't  
this show why ,christ commanded baptism8
 ,you see1 he knew that every true      
,christian must pass through this       
spiritual experience at conversion--the 
baptism of the ,spirit--and he decided  
to give his people an outward ceremony  
that would be a sign1 or picture1 of the
 inward spiritual change that they must 
have1 and so he commanded immersion1 as 
if he would say3 ',here is a picture of 

what ,i command of everyone--this burial
 in the water and rising again2 it is   
the picture of that spiritual change    
that must occur in everyone that would  
be my follower'4 ,he commands two       
things1 a spiritual burial and rising   
and a material burial and rising2 two   
baptisms1 one of the ,spirit to come    
first and a baptism of the water to come
 second as a sign of the first baptism4 
,if that is true1 ,friend ,sterling1    
said the father1 then it would seem a   
pretty serious thing to change the form 
of the baptism4 ,if the founder of      
,christianity commanded these two       
baptisms1 one a picture of the other1   
then it looks to me mighty risky to     
tamper with either of them4 ,now1 if you
 put sprinkling in the place of         
immersion you destroy the whole meaning 
in the work of conversion4 ,the two     
don't go together at all4 ,you don't    
have a burial by sprinkling a few drops 
of dirt on a person4 ,it is not a matter
 of much water or little water4 ,the    

important thing is that it be a burial  
and rising again4  ,it was a new        
experience for ,sterling1 ,he had begun 
the discussion with the thought that    
,dorothy would be delighted with the    
doctrines of his great church4 ,she had 
seemed on the point of joining4 ,he was 
irritated that the conversation had been
 hung up on the baptismal controversy4  
,besides1 the passages in favor of      
immersion bewildered him4 ,his religious
 life had been spent largely among close
 adherents of ,presbyterianism and he   
had rarely heard his doctrines called in
 question4 ,whenever he had heard       
allusions to the ,baptists and their    
beliefs it was generally accompanied    
with a smile or a sneer and he had come 
to regard the dippings of the ,baptists 
as a joke4 ,the passages which they had 
just considered unveiled ,new ,testament
 baptism before him in a new light1 and 
while he could not believe that         
immersion was ,bible baptism1 yet he    
felt that he could never as formerly    

treat immersion in a joking manner4     
,the discussion was becoming exciting   
for him4 ,he saw that the battle was on4
 ,as he thought of ,dorothy drifting    
away from his faith and his church he   
had a sinking of heart1 and yet he also 
felt that if he could not win her by the
 truth to his position he would not win 
her in any other way4 ,consequently he  
warmed to the fray4  ,he had promised to
 join the family circle on the next     
evening and resume the discussion4 ,his 
work kept him closely confined at his   
office during the morning4 ,he hurried  
home for a tennis game in the afternoon1
 and promptly that evening he appeared  
in the library at the ,page's ready for 
the contest4     ,,chapter ,v4          
,,handling ,,the ,,three ,,thousand4    
,that evening ,sterling opened the      
discussion3 ,miss ,dorothy1 ,i have     
listened in these discussions to what   
are evidently stock passages of the     
immersionists4 ,but let us go deeper    
into the matter4  ,but why do you call  

them stock passages of the              
immersionists8 asked ,dorothy in        
surprise4 ,i did not get them from any  
immersionists4 ,i told you ,i thought ,i
 saw passages in the ,bible teaching    
immersion and you said no4 ,i was asked 
to show these passages and ,i have been 
showing them4  ,very well1 we will not  
dispute on that point1 my fair debater1 
but ,i will try now to show you that it 
was impossible that immersion could have
 been intended in these ,bible passages4
 ,i think ,i can show you that certain  
baptisms could not have been immersions4
  ,good for you1 said the father4 ,now  
the contest is getting spicy4 ,show that
 immersion was impossible and you have  
won the day4  ,father1 you speak as if  
,mr4 ,sterling and ,i were engaged in a 
battle4 ,my only desire is to learn what
 the ,bible teaches about baptism1 and  
,i shall certainly follow its command as
 nearly as ,i can1 cost what it may4    
,why do you say immersion was           
impossible1 ,mr4 ,sterling8  ,because in

 the account of the baptisms on the day 
of ,pentecost we are told that three    
thousand persons were baptized and that 
of course could not have been done by   
immersion in one day4  ,were they all   
baptized in one place8 asked ,dorothy4  
,yes1 all were baptized at ,jerusalem on
 the day of ,pentecost after a great    
sermon by the ,apostle ,peter4  ,how    
many persons did the baptizing8 asked   
,dorothy1 as if she was trying to       
picture the scene4  ,that is not stated4
  ,let us have the passage1 ,sterling4  
,my curiosity is excited1 said ,mr4     
,page4  ,sterling read from ,acts #b3da3
 ,then they that gladly received his    
,word were baptized and the same day    
there were added unto them about three  
thousand souls4  ,dorothy read the verse
 over carefully and then remarked3 ,why1
 that doesn't say they were all baptized
 on the same day4 ,notice it says there 
were added to them on the same day about
 three thousand4 ,why may not some of   
the number have been baptized before    

that and during ,christ's life8  ,that  
is a fact1 said the father1 looking over
 the passage4 ,the verse does not say   
that they were all baptized that day2   
but do you suppose1 ,sterling1 that it  
would have taken a great deal longer to 
immerse them than it would to have      
sprinkled them8 ,not if the sprinkling  
ceremony that ,i saw was a sample of the
 way the three thousand were baptized4  
,do you not have a ceremony connected   
with sprinkling just as they have one   
connected with immersion8  ,oh1 yes1    
there is always a little ceremony       
connected with the sprinkling4  ,who did
 the baptizing that day8 asked ,dorothy4
  ,good for you1 daughter1 said the     
father4 ,that is a stunner4 ,one man    
would have had quite a job on his hands 
whether he sprinkled or dipped that host
 of folks4 ,but with several baptizers  
it was a different proposition4  ,oh1   
father1 why do you speak so jokingly    
about these ,bible matters8  ,you are   
right1 ,dorothy4 ,forgive me4 ,i always 

make a muss of it when ,i tackle        
religion4 ,i'd better call in my tongue 
before ,i get into trouble4  ,i repeat  
my question1 said ,dorothy3 ,who did the
 baptizing on that day8  ,i guess that  
,peter1 one of the apostles1 did it4    
,oh1 yes1 said ,dorothy1 there were     
twelve apostles1 were there not8 ,and if
 they all took part in the baptizing1   
that would have made it much easier4    
,and ,i notice back here in the         
fifteenth verse of the preceding chapter
 it says there were one hundred and     
twenty disciples there when ,peter      
preached his sermon and that three      
thousand were converted4  ,hello1 said  
the father with a smile1 you keep on and
 you will get more than enough people to
 baptize two or three times three       
thousand persons4  ,you don't imagine1  
said ,sterling with a smile1 that the   
one hundred and twenty disciples all    
took a hand in putting the three        
thousand under water8 ,that would have  
been a spectacle indeed4  ,i think it   

would have been a spectacle no matter   
how it was done1 said ,dorothy4         
,another thing1 said ,sterling3         
,supposing that they had enough         
administrators for the ordinance that   
day1 where could they have performed the
 baptisms8 ,do you think they all       
marched off to the river ,jordan8 ,of   
course not4 ,but they did not need to go
 off anywhere in order to be sprinkled4 
,besides1 what about a change of        
clothing for the three thousand persons 
if they were all put under water8       
,remember most of them--according to the
 account--were strangers from different 
countries visiting ,jerusalem4  ,i hope1
 said ,dorothy1 that they had not come  
from their different countries without  
some change of clothing4  ,isn't it     
true1 asked the brother1 that over in   
these ,eastern lands1 with their loose  
garments and their sunny climate1 they  
could have arranged for a dipping if    
they had so desired it8 ,but that other 
point mentioned by ,mr4 ,sterling has   

not been answered4  ,what is that8 asked
 ,dorothy4  ,he asked where in          
,jerusalem could so many have been      
baptized8  ,does it say they were       
baptized in ,jerusalem8 asked ,dorothy4 
,no1 it does not say so1 but do you     
think they went off to a river8 asked   
,sterling4  ,the passage does not state4
 ,but are you sure there were not places
 in ,jerusalem where they could have    
been immersed8 asked ,dorothy4  ,wait1  
said the brother1 let me get an         
encyclopedia4 ,he went to the shelf and 
was soon examining the article on       
,jerusalem4 ,here is a long article on  
,jerusalem1 he said1 running his eye    
down the pages4 ,hello1 here is         
something about its water facilities4   
,here is a reference from ,strabo in    
these words ',jerusalem a rocky1        
well-enclosed fortress2 within1 well    
watered2 without1 wholly dry'4  ,now you
 are making discoveries1 son1 said ,mr4 
,page4 ,give us some more about the     
water4  ,here is another statement4 ,dr4

 ,robinson states there were six immense
 public pools in the city1 the largest  
being five hundred and ninety-two feet  
long and two hundred and seventy-five   
feet broad4  ,that is enough1 son1      
exclaimed the father4 ,sterling1 history
 seems on the side of the immersionists 
there4 ,i think that five hundred and   
ninety-two foot pool could have taken   
care of the whole three thousand4  ,i   
think the important question1 said the  
brother1 is the meaning of the ,greek   
word originally used for baptism4 ,in   
other words1 does the word baptize mean 
to sprinkle or to immerse8 ,when the    
people in ,christ's day used the word1  
what did they mean by it--sprinkle or   
immerse8  ,that hits the target exactly1
 said the father4 ,what does the word   
baptize mean8 ,let's see1 ,i think you  
said that the ,bible was written in     
,greek4  ,the ,new ,testament was1 said 
,sterling4  ,the question is1 then1 what
 word did the people use in ,christ's   
day in talking about a baptism8 ,when   

,christ told the people to be baptized1 
what word did he use and what did that  
word mean8 ,did the ,greek word which he
 used for baptism mean for the people in
 that day 'immerse' or 'sprinkle'8 ,when
 they heard the word from him1 did they 
think of immersion or of sprinkling8    
',baptizo'1 or baptize1 is the word     
which he used1 said ,sterling4  ,but    
baptize is our ,english word that we    
use4 ,what was the ,greek word which    
,christ used and which meant baptism8   
asked ,roland4  ,that is the point1 said
 ,sterling4 ',baptizo' is the ,greek    
word1 and the people who translated our 
,english from the ,greek ,bible did not 
translate the ,greek word 'baptizo' into
 any ,english word1 but simply put the  
,greek word 'baptizo' or baptize into   
our language as it was without          
translating it4 ,you see1 if they had   
translated it 'immerse'1 that would have
 made the ,presbyterians mad1 and if    
they had translated it 'sprinkle' that  
would have made others mad1 and so they 

did not translate it at all1 but simply 
put the ,greek word 'baptizo' in the    
,english ,bible1 leaving each person to 
translate it as he thought proper4  ,but
 why did they not translate it8 said    
,dorothy1 as if vexed by their neglect4 
,it must mean something1 and if they    
translated the other words1 why did they
 not translate this word right1 no      
matter who might have liked it8  ,they  
ought to have done so1 said ,sterling1  
and they ought to have put the ,english 
word 'sprinkle' instead of the ,greek   
word 'baptizo'4  ,oh1 ,i see1 said the  
father4 ,i guess the ,presbyterians1    
when they came to translate the word    
into ,english1 would put it 'sprinkle'1 
and those who believed in dipping would 
translate it 'dipping'4  ,that's it     
exactly1 said ,sterling4 ,the           
translators1 in order not to offend the 
different denominations1 agreed not to  
translate the word at all1 but simply to
 put the ,greek word 'baptizo' in the   
,english ,bible and let each one        

translate it for himself as he thought  
proper4  ,can't we find out what that   
,greek word 'baptizo' means8 asked      
,dorothy4  ,certainly1 here is the      
,greek scholar1 said ,mr4 ,page turning 
to his son4 ,tell us1 ,roland1 what did 
the ,greeks understand by that word     
'baptizo' when they used it8  ,i must   
get my ,greek lexicon for that4 ,and    
upstairs he hurried and soon returned   
with ,liddell and ,scott's ,greek and   
,english ,lexicon4 ,he turned to the    
word baptizo and read its meaning as    
follows3 ,to dip repeatedly1 to dip     
under4  ,what is that8 exclaimed the    
father1 almost bouncing out of his      
chair1 'to dip under'8  ,here it is on  
page #acj4  ,it seems to me1 said the   
father1 that would settle it4 ,if the   
,greek word that ,christ used meant to  
dip under1 what right has anyone to say 
that baptism is to be done by           
sprinkling8  ,what do you do with a     
passage like this in #a ,cor4 #aj3b8    
said ,mr4 ,sterling--'were all baptized 

unto ,moses in the cloud and in the     
sea4' ,they were all baptized1 but do   
you see any immersion in that8 ,it      
refers1 you know1 to the time when the  
,israelites passed through the sea dry  
shod with a cloud over them4 ,they were 
baptized1 but they were surely not      
immersed1 for they would have been      
drowned4  ,i did not know of such an    
event1 said ,dorothy4 ,what do you mean 
by saying that they went through the sea
 dry shod8  ,god banked up the waters on
 both sides and let them walk through   
untouched by the water4  ,did you say   
the waters were banked on both sides of 
them and that a cloud covered them8     
,yes4  ,isn't that a picture of         
immersion8 ,the ground was under them1  
the water on both sides and the cloud   
covered them4 ,it was much more like an 
immersion than a sprinkling4  ,hold on1 
said ,sterling4 ,the cloud was not over 
them1 but back of them4 ,the cloud was  
always either before or behind them1 but
 never over them2 consequently they were

 not covered up and the water did not   
even touch them--unless perhaps they    
were sprinkled by the spray from the    
wall of waters4  ,let me see the        
passage1 said ,dorothy4 ,she turned to  
,exodus #ad3ba4 ,but look6 she          
exclaimed1 it reads1 'and the children  
of ,israel went into the midst of the   
sea'4  ,you don't think1 ,miss ,dorothy1
 that they actually plunged into the    
middle of the sea8 asked ,sterling with 
a smile4  ,of course not1 ,mr4          
,sterling2 and yet their position in    
that sea gave the idea to the writer of 
their being in the midst of the sea4 ,to
 his mind it looked as if they were     
covered or buried in the sea1 and that  
is immersion4 ,the ,old ,testament      
writer calls it a baptism and the ,old  
,testament historian speaks of them as  
being in the midst of the sea4 ,which   
does that look more like--sprinkling or 
immersion8  ,sterling was getting       
excited4 ,it seemed to him that ,dorothy
 was moving further and further away    

from him1 and he imagined he saw a chasm
 opening between her views and his own4 
,but he braced himself for the struggle4
 ,to him the mode of baptism was by no  
means a life and death matter1 but      
,dorothy seemed to recoil from the      
practice of sprinkling4 ,sterling       
cheered himself with the thought that he
 had certain passages to show her that  
would turn the tide4 ,he said to her    
with a confident ring in his voice3     
,miss ,dorothy1 ,i have an arrow here   
from the ,bible quiver which ,i think   
will give the death blow to the         
immersion theory and prove beyond the   
glimmer of a doubt that pouring is the  
scriptural mode of baptism4  ,i thought 
you believed in sprinkling2 why do you  
say 'pouring'8  ,we make no distinction 
between sprinkling and pouring4 ,they   
are practically the same thing4 ,i want 
now to show you a statement from ,christ
 himself indicating that he believed    
that pouring was the mode of baptism4   
,do let us have it1 said ,dorothy4  ,in 

the first chapter of ,acts ,christ said 
to the apostles3 ',ye shall be baptized 
with the ,holy ,ghost not many days     
hence4' ,the day of ,pentecost1 which   
came not many days hence1 was the day   
which he was talking about4 ,he tells   
them they would be baptized on that day 
with the ,holy ,ghost1 and ,i can show  
you that this baptism was done by       
pouring4  ,hold a bit1 said the father4 
,let me see if ,i get that point4 ,you  
say ,christ promised that the apostles  
would be baptized on a certain day with 
the ,holy ,ghost1 and that when this    
promised baptism came to pass it came   
not by immersion1 but by pouring4 ,is   
that your claim8  ,you have it exactly  
correct4  ,all right1 and now for your  
proof4  ,ten days after ,christ ascended
 to ,heaven this baptism of the ,spirit 
came4 ,the disciples were in an upper   
room and were waiting for this baptism  
of the ,spirit that had been promised1  
when suddenly the ,holy ,spirit came4   
,but how did it come and in what way    

were they baptized8 ,it was poured on   
them4 ,don't forget that4 ,when the     
outsiders1 bewildered at the strange    
manifestation1 asked what it meant1     
,peter stood up and explained it by     
saying3 ',this is that which was spoken 
by the prophet ,joel4' ,in other words1 
,peter said it was what ,joel the       
prophet long ago had prophesied would   
come to pass4 ,and what did ,joel say   
would happen8 ,listen to ,peter3 ',and  
it shall come to pass in the last days1 
saith ,god1 that ,i will pour out of my 
,spirit upon all flesh4'  ,hello1       
daughter1 he has the dots on you there4 
,the verse declares for pouring4        
,certainly1 exclaimed ,sterling4 ,he    
does not use the word immerse1 but says 
',i will pour out of my ,spirit'4 ,that 
was the form that the baptism           
took--pouring--and ,peter was quoting   
the prophecy to explain the baptism4    
,and look here in the thirty-third      
verse2 he continues in the same strain  
by saying 'having received of the       

,father the promise of the ,holy ,ghost1
 he hath shed forth1 this which ye now  
see and hear4  ,let me see that passage1
 said ,dorothy4 ,she looked it over     
intently and in a few moments said3 ,mr4
 ,sterling1 notice the whole account4   
,it doesn't read as if the ,spirit was  
poured on them as you would pour a      
little water on a person in baptism4 ,a 
previous verse reads3 ',suddenly there  
came a sound from ,heaven as of a       
rushing mighty wind and it filled all   
the house where they were sitting4' ,and
 in the fourth verse it reads3 ',and    
they were all filled with the ,holy     
,ghost4' ,think of that1 ,mr4 ,sterling4
 ,the ,holy ,spirit came not in a few   
drops by pouring1 but came so abundantly
 that it filled the house and they were 
all filled with the ,holy ,spirit4 ,i   
guess if you were to pour water on a    
person as the ,spirit came upon these   
persons the person would be drowned4    
,the disciples were surrounded by the   
,spirit1 and that looks like immersion  

rather than like pouring4  ,but not too 
fast1 said ,sterling4 ,it does not say  
that the ,holy ,spirit filled the house4
 ,it speaks of the wind1 but it does not
 say even the wind filled the house1 but
 simply a sound as of a wind4 ,it was   
therefore only a sound that filled the  
house1 and sound could not fill the     
house because sound has no existence    
except in the ears of those who hear it4
 ,where1 then1 is your immersion8 ,you  
say they were immersed in sound that    
day1 and you call that baptism of the   
,spirit8  ,mr4 ,sterling1 said ,dorothy 
in surprise1 you amaze me4 ,the writer  
must mean that the ,spirit filled the   
house4 ,i saw in my reading this week a 
foot note that the wind in ,scripture   
often symbolizes the ,spirit4           
,certainly1 spoke up the brother4       
,pneuma in ,greek means both 'spirit'   
and 'wind'4  ,is that so8 exclaimed     
,dorothy eagerly4 ,that makes it plain4 
,it was the wind that filled the room   
and they knew it by sound4 ,they heard  

this sound like a wind and it filled all
 the house--notice1 'all the house'--and
 this wind symbolized the ,spirit and it
 was called the baptism of the ,spirit1 
and it certainly looked more like an    
immersion than a pouring4 ,why1 ,mr4    
,sterling1 ,i think it would lose all   
its impressiveness if you make it simply
 the coming of a few drops of the       
,spirit on them4  ,just listen to that1 
said the father with a laugh4 ,she is   
actually trying to turn your guns on    
you1 ,sterling1 and to make this verse  
prove immersion rather than pouring4  ,i
 note one striking fact1 said ,sterling1
 and do not forget it4 ,the passage     
speaks of pouring1 and ,i do not see the
 word immersion4  ,but ,i see the       
picture of immersion1 said ,dorothy4    
,the important fact about that scene    
seems to me to be the abundant way in   
which the ,spirit came4 ,it was a       
rushing1 in fact1 a mighty wind4 ,it    
filled all the house4 ,suppose some     
people were in a room and water was     

poured on them in such a deluge that the
 room was filled with the water4        
,wouldn't that look like an immersion   
rather than like pouring8  ,no1 said    
,sterling2 you don't immerse people by  
pouring water on them and covering them 
up4 ,you don't put the water around     
them1 but you put them in the water4    
,you must put them in the water to have 
an immersion1 but nothing like that was 
done on that day4 ,besides1 in an       
immersion you not only put the person in
 the water1 but you bring him up again  
out of the water to show a resurrection 
as is claimed4 ,there was nothing like  
this on the day of ,pentecost in the    
baptism of the ,spirit4 ,the disciples  
were not plunged into the ,spirit and   
they were not taken immediately up out  
of the ,spirit again4 ,if you should use
 water in baptizing people as the       
,spirit was used that day1 then you must
 pour water on the candidate until he is
 covered up1 and then instead of taking 
the candidate immediately up out of the 

water you must let him remain submerged4
  ,sterling1 said ,mr4 ,page1 you are   
getting in some good licks4 ,i don't see
 that that baptism that day was exactly 
like either pouring or immersion4 ,it   
was like an immersion in that they were 
surrounded by the ,spirit1 but not like 
it in any other respect2 and it was like
 a pouring because it came down on them4
  ,why1 ,mr4 ,page1 exclaimed ,sterling1
 it is actually called a 'pouring'4 ,the
 word 'pour' is used4 ,joel prophesied  
that the ,spirit would be poured out on 
them4 ,how could you wish it plainer    
than that8 ,and it was called a baptism 
of the ,spirit4  ,daughter1 what have   
you to say to that8  ,but let me add    
another word1 interrupted ,sterling4    
,people are mistaken in saying that     
baptism was intended to be a picture of 
a burial and a resurrection4 ,the real  
truth intended to be taught in baptism  
is that the power and grace comes from  
above1 comes down on the person and has 
its origin in ,heaven1 and ,i think the 

idea of divine grace coming down from   
above is a higher truth than the idea of
 something that the person himself      
experiences4  ,i think the truth        
pictured in immersion is much greater1  
said ,dorothy4 ,it is not only the idea 
that the person has died to his old life
 and risen to a new life1 but it also   
points to ,christ's death and           
resurrection and puts the two together  
and says that1 as ,christ died and was  
raised1 even so the ,christian must have
 the same experience4 ,i don't see how  
you can have a more glorious truth than 
that4 ,your idea in pouring is that     
grace comes on the person and comes in a
 few drops1 but in immersion you have   
not merely grace come down1 but the     
giver of grace1 ,christ himself come    
down--in fact1 come down to death and   
rising again4 ,oh1 ,i think it is a     
wonderful double picture showing ,christ
 and the converted soul bound together  
in these experiences of death and       
resurrection4 ,besides1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 

where does the ,bible say that baptism  
was intended to show forth that truth   
about grace coming from above8  ,i don't
 know that it says so in express terms1 
but the ceremony of pouring indicates it
 and the descent of the ,spirit shows   
it4  ,of course the ,spirit when he     
first came had to come down1 said       
,dorothy4 ,if ,christ promised to send  
the ,spirit from ,heaven to baptize the 
disciples1 of course the ,spirit had to 
come down before he could surround them1
 but it does not seem to have been the  
fact of his coming down that was the    
impressive fact that day1 but the       
overwhelming way in which the ,spirit   
came and surrounded them4 ,that is what 
the writer used a good many words to    
describe4  ,you will notice1 said the   
father1 that it says that not only was  
the house filled1 but the disciples were
 filled with the ,holy ,spirit4  ,yes1  
said ,dorothy1 it says that the wind    
filled the house and the disciples were 
filled with the ,spirit4 ,the idea seems

 to be that the ,spirit came so         
abundantly that day that he not only    
filled all the house1 but filled the    
disciples themselves4 ,that was the     
great fact1 the overwhelming abundance  
of the ,spirit4  ,i still remind you    
that ,peter calls it pouring1 said      
,sterling4  ,dorothy1 he has not        
surrendered1 you see2 his guns are still
 firing1 said the father with a smile4  
,mr4 ,sterling1 said ,dorothy1 but your 
pouring is not like the pouring that    
day4 ,when you pour the water in your   
baptism1 does it come down with a rush  
and fill the house8 ,the passage does   
not teach your form of baptism1 because 
you do not imitate it4  ,immersionists  
do not imitate1 in all respects1 the    
baptism of ,christ1 said ,sterling1 for 
they do not all baptize in a river as he
 was4  ,neither did the apostles when   
they baptized in ,jerusalem on the day  
of ,pentecost1 said ,dorothy4 ,we have  
seen that they probably baptized in some
 of the immense pools in the city4 ,and 

look here1 examining the passage about  
which they had been arguing1 isn't this 
interesting8 ,here in the margin of the 
passage which we have been discussing   
are the words 'in the ,spirit' as if he 
had promised to baptize them in the     
,spirit4  ,what is that8 exclaimed the  
father4  ,here where ,christ promised   
that he would not many days hence       
baptize them with the ,holy ,spirit it  
reads on the margin 'in the ,holy       
,spirit'1 and a baptism 'in' the ,spirit
 was surely by immersion4  ,i guess1    
said the brother1 that the ,greek word  
translated 'in' there on the margin is  
the word 'en'4 ,let's see your ,greek   
,testament1 ,mr4 ,sterling4 ,he examined
 it and found that the original word was
 en4  ,it is 'en' and it means 'in'1 and
 the right reading of that passage is   
'ye shall be baptized in the ,holy      
,ghost'4 ,here1 look at this4 ,in this  
,revised ,version it reads just that    
way4 ,if you had read it that way at    
first in your ,king ,james' ,version of 

the ,bible it might have saved you all  
this argument4  ,you must remember1 ,mr4
 ,sterling1 said ,dorothy1 that ,i did  
not bring this passage up to prove      
immersion1 but you brought it up to     
prove pouring4 ,you spoke very          
positively about it1 but ,i think you   
found that if it represented the coming 
down of water it was like a cloudburst  
more than anything else4  ,sterling was 
compelled to admit to himself that the  
,pentecostal baptism was more a picture 
of immersion than of pouring4 ,he turned
 the conversation now into another line4
  ,even granting1 he said1 that         
immersion is the baptism practiced in   
,new ,testament times1 it has never     
seemed to me to be such a prodigiously  
important matter4  ,oh1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 
said ,dorothy with some impatience1 ,i  
can't understand such a remark4 ,what do
 you mean by the word important8 ,if    
,christ was immersed and commanded it of
 his followers2 if the early ,christians
 were all immersed1 and immersion1 as   

,paul indicates1 was selected as an     
outward picture of the spiritual baptism
 that takes place in conversion1 then   
how can you say it is not important8    
,the fact is1 ,miss ,dorothy1 ,i have   
never made an exhaustive study of the   
matter of baptism4 ,i never thought     
,christ laid any stress upon form1 but  
rather upon the condition of the heart4 
,if it is simply a matter of the heart1 
why baptize at all8 ,maybe the whole    
matter is unimportant1 said ,dorothy4   
,would your church like to give up      
baptism altogether8  ,by no means4      
,would your church accept any kind of   
baptism except sprinkling or pouring8   
,no1 ,i am sure it would not4  ,the     
matter had reached a puzzling stage for 
,sterling4 ,the question stared him in  
the face as to whether he had been      
,scripturally baptized4 ,in infancy he  
had been sprinkled1 but he had to       
confess to himself that the ,bible      
teaching seemed to lean towards         
immersion4 ,in fact1 in the recent      

investigation and discussions he had    
hardly been able to see anything else   
but immersion4  ,he did not return to   
his office that afternoon1 but spent the
 time at his home searching through the 
,bible4 ,the discussions at the ,page's 
had filled his mind with passages about 
immersion1 but upon later reflection he 
felt sure that the trend of ,scripture  
pointed strongly to sprinkling and      
pouring1 and with this thought in mind  
he turned to his ,bible study4          
,,chapter ,,vi4  ,,one ,,point ,,gained4
   ,in their discussion on the next     
morning ,dorothy remarked3 ,mr4         
,sterling1 let me tell you what ,i did4 
,i looked up the passages that had the  
word 'baptize' in them and in each case 
,i put the word 'sprinkle' in the place 
of the word 'baptize' and it surely made
 curious reading4  ,good for you1       
daughter1 said ,mr4 ,page4 ,that was an 
ingenious procedure4 ,let us have the   
passages to see how they sound4 ,it     
ought to be a perfectly fair method1    

because if baptize means to sprinkle    
then you ought to be able everywhere to 
put the word 'sprinkle' for the word    
'baptize' and it would read all right4  
,that's a fine idea1 and now for the    
passages4  ,dorothy began with the      
account of ,christ's baptism3 ',then    
cometh ,jesus from ,galilee to ,jordan  
unto ,john to be sprinkled of him'4     
,that sounds all right1 said ,sterling4 
,here is the next one1 said ,dorothy3   
',i have a sprinkling to be sprinkled   
with and how am ,i straitened till it be
 accomplished6' ,just imagine ,christ   
speaking of his sufferings in that way1 
,mr4 ,sterling4 ,his sufferings were not
 a sprinkling4 ,but here is another3    
',and ,john also was sprinkling at      
,aenon near ,salem because there was    
much water there4'  ,again3 ',john truly
 sprinkled with water1 but ye shall be  
sprinkled with the ,holy ,ghost not many
 days hence4'  ,that doesn't sound      
natural1 said the father1 to be         
sprinkled with the ,holy ,ghost4 ,that  

would have been a rather light affair4  
,mr4 ,sterling1 said ,dorothy1 you      
remember you said the baptism on the day
 of ,pentecost was by pouring4 ,suppose 
you put the word 'pour' in this passage 
and read it1 ',john truly poured with   
water1 but ye shall be poured with the  
,holy ,ghost not many days hence'4 ,you 
could not speak of anybody being poured4
 ,you could speak of water or the       
,spirit being poured1 but not of a      
person being poured4 ,it would not be   
proper to say you shall be poured with  
anything4 ,something could be poured    
upon you1 but you could not be poured   
with something4 ,that is another reason 
why the baptism of the ,spirit at       
,pentecost could not have had reference 
to pouring1 because from this passage1  
you see1 it would not make sense to put 
the word 'pour' in it4 ,and besides1    
,mr4 ,sterling1 ,i think you are        
uncertain whether baptism is by pouring 
or sprinkling4  ,give us another        
passage1 said the father2 they are quite

 interesting4  ,dorothy continued3 ',and
 they went down into the water1 both    
,philip and the eunuch and he sprinkled 
him4  ,let us have another passage1 said
 the father4  ,dorothy continued3       
',therefore we are buried with him by   
sprinkling into death4'  ,oh1 my1 said  
,mr4 ,page1 bursting into a laugh1 where
 did you ever see anyone buried by      
sprinkling a few drops of earth upon    
him8 ,say1 ,friend ,sterling1 how did   
this idea of sprinkling get into so many
 churches8 ,it certainly does not seem  
to have a single leg to stand upon4  ,i 
can give you some passages where the    
word sprinkle would sound natural2 for  
example this passage3 ',go ye into all  
the world and preach the ,gospel unto   
every creature1 and he that believeth   
and is sprinkled shall be saved4' ,that 
sounds just as natural as if it read 'he
 that believeth and is immersed shall be
 saved'4  ,maybe so1 said ,mr4 ,page1   
but it sounds just a little limp to me4 
,besides1 you could hardly put the word 

'pour' in that passage4 ,if you want to 
make a real point you must give some    
passage where the word 'sprinkle' would 
sound natural and the word 'immerse'    
would seem out of place4  ,yes1 spoke up
 ,dorothy4 ,can you give us such a      
passage1 ,mr4 ,sterling8  ,i have such a
 passage and it will show that immersion
 could not have been the mode of        
baptism4  ,out with it1 said ,mr4 ,page4
  ,it is the words spoken to ,saul4 ,it 
reads3 ',arise and be baptized4' ,now   
that baptism could not have been an     
immersion4 ,saul was evidently seated   
and he was told to arise or to stand up4
 ,what was he to stand up for8 ,to be   
sprinkled1 of course4 ,you would not ask
 a man who was seated to stand up to be 
immersed4  ,he would have to stand up   
before he could be immersed1 said       
,dorothy4 ,why could it not read1       
',arise and be immersed'8 ,maybe they   
went off to be immersed4 ,and notice the
 first part of the verse4 ,it reads3    
',now why tarriest thou8 ,arise and be  

baptized and wash away thy sins1 calling
 on the name of the ,lord4' ,those first
 words 'why tarriest thou' explain the  
other part4 ,in the first place1 he had 
to arise2 that is1 to get up in order   
that he might go off to some place where
 he could be immersed4 ,in the next     
place1 he tells him not to tarry1 not to
 wait1 but to arise and be baptized4    
,good for you1 daughter4 ,it does look  
as if you were telling him not to delay 
his baptism1 but to get up and attend to
 it4  ,there was a lull in the          
conversation for a moment1 and then the 
father asked3 ,what kind of baptism did 
they have in the churches just after the
 apostles died8 ,don't we find anything 
in history about the kind of baptism    
that was practiced8  ,dorothy spoke up  
promptly3 ,i was reading in the library 
yesterday in some of the encyclopedias  
about baptism and ,i copied something   
about that very point you mentioned4    
,let me get it4  ,she hurried to her    
room1 brought the book and read as      

follows3 ',not less than sixty of the   
ancient baptisteries are found in ,italy
 alone1 of which seven belong to the    
fourth century1 four to the fifth1      
eleven to the sixth and fourteen        
probably to the seventh4' ,then after   
describing these baptizing pools found  
in these ancient church buildings the   
writer continues3 ',now baptisteries    
such as described above are found in all
 parts of ancient ,christendom1 and     
their presence makes it impossible to   
doubt the form of baptism in the        
patristric and medieval churches4 ,such 
structures were plainly intended for    
immersion4 ,their size and form and     
arrangement entirely preclude the idea  
of their use for sprinkling or pouring4'
  ,that is a great point4 ,what were    
those baptizing pools doing there in the
 churches if they were not for          
immersion8 ,if the churches in the      
fourth century baptized by immersion1 it
 surely must have been because that mode
 had been handed down to them from the  

beginning4  ,there is one argument      
against immersion that ,i have not      
mentioned1 said ,sterling4  ,exactly1   
said the father with a smile4 ,you are  
going now to bring out your ,imperial   
,guards4 ,you've been holding them back 
for the last assault1 ,i suppose4 ,all  
right1 trot them out1 ,sterling4  ,oh1  
father1 what awful figures you use about
 these ,bible matters4  ,that's right1  
daughter1 call me down4 ,i will jump the
 traces every now and then1 and ,i beg  
pardon4 ,and now1 ,sterling1 what is    
that argument against immersion that you
 have not mentioned8  ,it is this3      
,immersion cannot be right1 for it would
 make infant baptism impossible4        
,infant baptism1 exclaimed ,dorothy with
 a very puzzled look4 ,you don't mean   
that you baptize infants8  ,certainly4  
,why do you baptize infants8 asked      
,dorothy1 with an expression almost of  
horror on her face4  ,it is one of the  
sacred ordinances of the church and is  
really one of the most beautiful and    

effective4  ,do you mean little children
 just two or three years old8 asked     
,dorothy4  ,yes1 indeed1 and often only 
a few weeks old4 ,where have you been   
that you have never heard of infant     
baptism8  ,i never heard of it4 ,you    
know ,i have been to church very little 
in my life and have known almost nothing
 about church matters and have had no   
one to tell me4 ,i am very sorry it has 
been so1 for ,i feel ,i have missed a   
great deal4 ,but1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 ,i do 
not remember seeing anything in the     
,bible about sprinkling infants4 ,i must
 have overlooked it4  ,you must have    
overlooked it1 for it is taught very    
plainly4  ,infant baptism8 she said in a
 questioning1 puzzled tone4 ,mr4        
,sterling1 the little infants do not    
know what you are doing to them4 ,i     
thought the baptism of a person was a   
picture of what had already taken place 
in that person4 ,it looks strange to    
baptize an infant1 and besides ,i should
 think you would drown the little things

 to put them under the water4  ,ha1 ha1 
exclaimed ,mr4 ,sterling with a laugh4  
,not too fast4 ,we do not put them under
 the water2 we sprinkle them4  ,of      
course4 ,i ought to have known that1 for
 you baptize by sprinkling4 ,but do tell
 me some more about it4 ,why do you do  
it1 ,mr4 ,sterling8  ,it is one of the  
most sacred ordinances of the church4 ,i
 wish you could witness the ceremony4   
,but ,i see we will not have the time to
 go into the subject as we ought4 ,it is
 a great subject1 and if you do not     
object we will take it up tomorrow      
night4 ,i hear no objection and so the  
motion is unanimously adopted4          
,sterling felt as if the battle had been
 going against him so far as winning    
,dorothy was concerned4 ,but he did not 
despair4 ,he girded himself afresh for  
his task4 ,he decided1 however1 that    
instead of attempting single-handed to  
defend the doctrine of infant baptism1  
he would seek reinforcements and call in
 his pastor1 ,dr4 ,vincent4  ,the       

,doctor was regarded as an encyclopedia 
of ,presbyterian lore4 ,sterling visited
 him and told him that ,dorothy ,page1  
the daughter of his friend and neighbor1
 had recently been converted and was    
concerned about the subject of baptism1 
and that she was strongly turning       
towards immersion4 ,i am dreading1      
,doctor1 said ,sterling1 that if she    
insists on immersion she will be drawn  
into the ,baptist church and we would   
all regard that as a disaster4  ,did you
 mention infant baptism to her8 inquired
 the ,doctor4 ,you know the ,baptists   
would deny to infants this rite and     
would deny to parents the privilege of  
such dedication of their children in    
baptism4 ,that fact ought to keep her   
from the ,baptist heresy1 and if that   
fails to save her from it then surely   
their doctrine of close communion will  
settle the business with her4  ,we are  
to take up the subject of infant baptism
 tonight4 ,we began it last night1 but  
were interrupted before we got fairly   

launched upon the discussion1 and yet   
not before ,miss ,dorothy had made some 
remark about infant baptism showing she 
thought it a curious practice4 ,i am    
sure1 ,doctor1 you could set her right4 
,i will come if you think ,i can be of  
service1 he said1 for he saw an anxiety 
on ,sterling's face that he could not   
understand4     ,,chapter ,,vii4  ,,the 
,,call ,,for ,,reinforcements4   ,that  
evening ,sterling and the old ,doctor   
arrived4 ,the ,doctor was acquainted    
with all the ,pages except ,dorothy4    
,after a preliminary skirmish in the    
conversation ,dorothy remarked3  ,it is 
very kind in ,mr4 ,sterling to be trying
 to instruct me in these church matters1
 for ,i feel very ignorant4 ,he and ,i  
have not agreed on all points1 but the  
discussion has helped me greatly4  ,i   
think ,miss ,dorothy is afraid to take  
me as her guide as she is trying to     
climb these heights of ,bible truths1   
said ,sterling with a faint smile1 and  
,i have brought over a more skilled and 

experienced leader4  ,maybe she will not
 endorse your selection1 said the       
,doctor with a smile at ,sterling4  ,i  
see you are making me out as being not  
only hard to please1 but also very      
ungrateful to my friends4 ,you will find
 me a very interested and appreciative  
listener1 ,doctor1 to anything you may  
be kind enough to say to me4  ,we are to
 talk about infant baptism tonight1 and1
 ,doctor1 if you are willing1 ,i suggest
 that you give the reasons for this     
practice1 said ,sterling4  ,you are     
laying out quite a program for me4 ,i   
will attempt1 however1 to bring it      
within brief compass4 ,the first fact ,i
 would mention is ,christ's treatment of
 the little children4  ,did he baptize  
them8 broke in ,dorothy4  ,hold on1     
daughter1 said the father4 ,you open up 
your artilleries too soon4 ,the ,doctor 
was merely making a skirmish4  ,pardon  
me1 ,doctor ,vincent4 ,i ought not to   
have broken into your remarks so        
abruptly1 and yet ,i am sure you        

understand that ,i ask because ,i am    
deeply interested4  ,break in at any    
time and ,i shall be glad4  ,she        
repeated her question3 ,did ,christ     
baptize the little children8  ,we are   
not told expressly that he did1 but we  
read in ,matthew #ai3ac that when the   
little ones were brought to him the     
disciples sought to prevent it4  ,just  
as a good many people would do today1   
said ,sterling4  ,yes1 continued the    
,doctor1 but ,christ said1 ',suffer     
little children and forbid them not to  
come unto me1 for of such is the        
,kingdom of ,heaven'4  ,maybe they were 
bringing the little children to him for 
him to baptize them1 said the father4   
,what about that1 ,doctor8 ,doesn't it  
tell what they brought the children for8
  ,dorothy had turned to the passage and
 remarked3 ,yes1 it tells what they     
brought the children for4 ,they brought 
little children to ,christ that he might
 put his hands on them and pray4 ,there 
is nothing there about baptism4 ,it     

looks plain that they did not bring them
 to be baptized1 because it simply says 
'to put his hands on them and pray'4    
,at any rate1 said the ,doctor1 it      
showed ,christ's tenderness for little  
children4 ,the point is this3 ,he said  
'of such is the ,kingdom of ,heaven'4   
,think of that4 ,it is a remarkable     
statement about the little ones4  ,what 
did he mean by the words 'of such is the
 ,kingdom of ,heaven'1 and what have    
they to do1 ,doctor1 with baptism8  ,a  
great deal1 my daughter4 ,they mean that
 the little child has the heavenly      
nature4  ,i think that is a beautiful   
idea1 but what has that to do with the  
baptism of infants8  ,why1 this3 ,if    
anybody is entitled to baptism1 surely a
 little child with its heavenly nature  
is4 ,we may make mistakes in baptizing  
old persons who claim the right of      
baptism1 but never can we be mistaken in
 the case of a little child4  ,i can    
understand about the beautiful nature of
 a child before sin has taken hold of   

its will1 said ,dorothy1 but why that   
little helpless one should be baptized  
,i cannot understand4  ,i thought you   
were deciding all these questions by the
 ,bible1 said the father4 ,what does the
 ,book say about it1 ,doctor8 ,do you   
baptize them because you think it is    
appropriate to baptize the sweet little 
ones or because you think the ,bible    
commands it8  ,it is from the ,bible    
alone that we get the authority4  ,where
 is it commanded in the ,bible1 ,doctor8
 asked ,dorothy4  ,it is not definitely 
commanded1 but it is implied in many    
ways4 ,we baptize grown people who      
profess to be born of the ,spirit of    
,god and to be regenerated by his grace4
 ,how much more1 therefore1 should we   
baptize an infant who does not need to  
be regenerated1 because1 according to   
,christ's own words1 it possesses the   
heavenly nature4 ,it is often claimed by
 our opponents that infants must not be 
baptized because faith and              
repentance--in other words1             

regeneration--must come before baptism4 
,all right1 ,i answer2 the infant       
possesses those necessary qualifications
 for baptism4 ,it does not need         
regeneration4 ,it already1 according to 
,christ's own words1 possesses the      
heavenly nature and needs not to go     
through the process of regeneration4 ,in
 another place ,christ said3 ',unless ye
 become converted and become as a little
 child ye cannot see the ,kingdom4'     
,there you see conversion is compared to
 the condition of the child nature4     
,christ said a person desiring          
conversion must become like a little    
child4 ,now we know that a converted    
person is entitled to and must receive  
baptism4 ,why1 then1 could not a child  
be baptized8  ,doctor ,vincent1 said    
,dorothy1 it seems to me that the whole 
matter hinges on the question as to who 
was commanded in the ,bible to be       
baptized4 ,does ,christ say that all    
persons having the heavenly or          
child-like nature must be baptized8 ,if 

so1 why did he not baptize the little   
ones the day they were brought to him8  
,it looks as if the disciples did not   
know anything about baptizing the little
 ones4  ,no1 they seemed to know very   
little about ,christ's attitude towards 
children4  ,let me ask this question1   
,doctor1 said ,dorothy4 ,you spoke of   
the heavenly nature of the infant4 ,when
 an infant is baptized and grows up1    
does the baptism cause the heavenly     
nature to stay with the child8  ,not    
necessarily4  ,what good1 then1 does the
 baptism do8 ,do you mean that a        
baptized infant might grow up to be a   
fearful villain8  ,yes1 it is possible4 
,well1 do the baptized infants have a   
less tendency to sin than the unbaptized
 infants8  ,no4 ,i can't say that the   
baptism itself has any effect on the    
infant4 ,neither does it have any effect
 on the grown person that is baptized   
and disgraces his baptism received in   
later life4  ,but is there not this     
difference1 that in the case of grown   

people you baptize only those who desire
 baptism1 but in the case of infants you
 do not make such distinction8  ,it     
seems to me1 said the father1 that the  
important question is1 who in the ,bible
 are commanded to be baptized8 ,does the
 ,bible say that infants must be        
baptized or not8  ,no1 replied the      
,doctor1 it does not say that4  ,well1  
who are entitled to baptism8  ,let me   
get my concordance1 said ,dorothy1      
rising from her seat1 and look at the   
passages about baptism so as to see who 
are commanded to be baptized4  ,she     
began with the aid of the concordance to
 pick out the passages having the word  
baptize in them4 ,she read3 ',he that   
believeth and is baptized shall be      
saved4'  ,hello6 said the father4 ,who  
said that8  ,those are the words of     
,christ1 said ,doctor ,vincent4  ,that  
looks as if a person had to believe     
before he could be baptized4 ,but give  
us another one1 daughter4  ,here is one3
 ',when they believed ,philip preaching 

the things concerning the ,kingdom of   
,god and the name of ,jesus ,christ1    
they were baptized both men and women4' 
,there it is again1 exclaimed the       
father1 believing coming before         
baptizing4  ,and notice1 said ,dorothy1 
it says they were baptized 'both men and
 women'1 but it does not say 'and       
children'4 ,but here is another3 ',see1 
here is water1 what doth hinder me to be
 baptized8 ,and he said1 if thou        
believest with all thy heart thou mayst 
be baptized4'  ,there it is again1 spoke
 up the father4 ,if he believed then he 
could be baptized4 ,evidently that      
writer considered believing essential to
 baptism4  ,dorothy read on3 ',many of  
the ,corinthians hearing believed and   
were baptized4' ,isn't it strange8      
,every time it is those that believed   
that were baptized4 ,here is another3   
',then ,simon himself believed also1 and
 when he was baptized he continued with 
,philip4' ,and again3 ',then they that  
gladly received his ,word were          

baptized4' ,they do not use the word    
'believe' in that passage1 but the words
 'gladly received his ,word'1 and these 
are practically the same2 they not only 
heard his ,word1 but received it1 and   
received it gladly4  ,oh1 they were     
genuinely converted1 said the ,doctor4  
,there can be no doubt about that4 ,it  
occurred on the day of ,pentecost and   
those converts continued in the         
apostles' doctrine and bore good fruit4 
,you see1 ,doctor1 said ,dorothy1 that  
those who were baptized in ,new         
,testament times first believed4 ,you   
say that infants ought to be baptized   
because they have the heavenly and      
converted nature2 but the ,bible does   
not say that4 ,those who were baptized  
first believed4 ,now an infant cannot   
believe4 ,i do not feel1 ,doctor1 that  
,i know a hundredth part as much of the 
,bible as you know1 but don't you think 
that ,christ meant by those words about 
little children and the ,kingdom of     
,heaven that they must cultivate the    

qualities of a little child and that the
 child nature was a type of the heavenly
 nature8 ,he did not connect this with  
baptism4  ,did you know that whole      
families were baptized8 asked the       
,doctor4 ,many times baptisms were      
administered in homes not simply on     
those who believed1 but on the whole    
family1 young and old4  ,but are you    
sure1 ,doctor1 that there were infants  
in those families8  ,not absolutely     
sure1 but almost2 at any rate the burden
 of proof is on those who deny that     
infants were in any of those families4  
,show us some of the accounts of family 
baptisms1 said the father4 ,it does look
 a little curious1 daughter4  ,they     
turned first to ,acts #af3ac-ae3 ',and a
 certain woman1 named ,lydia1 a seller  
of purple of the city of ,thyatira1     
which worshiped ,god1 heard us1 whose   
heart the ,lord opened that she attended
 unto the things that were spoken of    
,paul4 ,and when she was baptized and   
her household she besought us1 saying4' 

,how do you know there were any infants 
in her household8 ,it does not even say 
she was married1 said ,dorothy4 ,she was
 a seller of purple and maybe she was an
 unmarried woman working for her living4
 ,at any rate ,i do not see that you can
 prove that she had any infants in her  
household4  ,it looks to me1 said the   
father1 as if that woman was a working  
woman and as if her household were her  
fellow-workers1 and that there were     
probably no infants among them4  ,here  
is another passage1 said the ,doctor1 in
 #a ,corinthians #a3af3 ',and ,i        
baptized also the household of          
,stephanus4' ,will you affirm there were
 no infants there8 ,how many households 
do you think ,i could baptize without   
hitting upon an infant8 ,why do you     
exclude infants8  ,the brother was busy 
looking through the concordance to see  
if he could find out something more     
about this ,stephanus and his household1
 and in a few moments he exclaimed3     
,here is some light on the household of 

,stephanus in #a ,corinthians #ae3ae4   
,it reads3 ',ye know the house of       
,stephanus4' ,there you have it         
again--'the house of ,stephanus'4 ,that 
must have been an interesting house3    
',ye know the house of ,stephanus1 that 
it is the first fruits of ,achaia and   
that they have addicted themselves to   
the ministry of the saints4'  ,you see1 
,doctor1 said ,dorothy1 it seems that   
that household were intelligent people  
and acted for themselves1 and therefore 
were not infants4 ,just notice what it  
says--that the house of ,stephanus were 
'the first fruits of ,achaia'4 ,what    
does that mean--'the first fruits'8     
,why1 the first fruits are the first    
grain that is gathered in a harvest4    
,oh1 ,i see4 ,then the members of       
,stephanus' household were the first    
ones to accept ,christianity in ,achaia1
 and if they accepted ,christianity of  
course they were not infants4  ,but it  
may have meant that they were the first 
ones in ,achaia to be baptized--'the    

first fruits' in that sense--and if so1 
there could have been infants in the    
house4  ,but notice what comes in the   
next verse3 ',and that they have        
addicted themselves to the ministry of  
the saints4' ,you don't think1 ,doctor1 
he would speak of infants addicting     
themselves to the ministry of the       
saints1 do you8  ,it looks as if you    
will have to surrender on that point1   
gentlemen1 said ,mr4 ,page4 ,i am a     
novice in ,bible teaching1 and yet it   
does seem plain that that household were
 intelligent folks--the first to be     
converted in ,ach----  ,achaia1 spoke up
 ,dr4 ,vincent4  ,thanks for the word1  
the first fruits of ,achaia1 and they   
also 'addicted themselves to the        
ministry of the saints'4 ,i don't think 
you had better look for any young ones  
in that bunch4  ,i give you another     
household1 said the ,doctor4 ,it is in  
,acts #af3cc4 ,it is in the story of    
,paul and ,silas' experience in prison  
and the conversion of the jailer at     

midnight4 ,it reads3 ',he took them the 
same hour of the night and washed their 
stripes and was baptized1 he and all his
 straightway4' ,now1 my fair debater1 ,i
 suppose you will declare in most solemn
 tones that there were no infants in the
 jailer's family4 ,may ,i ask for your  
verdict on that point8  ,look here1 said
 ,dorothy1 who was examining the        
passage3 ,it says plainly that all of   
them 'did believe'4  ,stop1 daughter1   
said the father4 ,you are joking about  
that4  ,listen to the next verse1 she   
said3 ',and when he had brought them    
into his house he set meat before them  
and rejoiced1 believing in ,god with all
 his house4  ,take down your flag1      
gentlemen1 exclaimed the father         
impulsively4 ,your guns are silenced4   
,the jailer believed in ,god with 'all  
his house'4 ,well1 ,i guess that means  
that all his house believed with him1   
and they must have been very sprightly  
infants and quite overgrown to have     
joined their father in that believing4  

,it says they all rejoiced also1 said   
,dorothy4 ,and look at the verse        
preceding3 ',and they spake the ,word of
 the ,lord to all that were in the      
house4' ,that came before they were all 
baptized4 ,they 'spake the ,word to     
all'4 ,notice the 'all'1 to all that    
were in the house4 ,i guess that 'all'  
that were in the house must have been   
old enough to understand his preaching  
if he spoke the ,word to all of them4   
,doctor1 she asked1 do you think you can
 find an infant in that attentive1      
believing1 rejoicing household8  ,read  
us about another household baptism1 as  
she noted that the ,doctor seemed to be 
closing the ,bible4  ,this completes the
 list of household baptisms4 ,i think   
they are sufficient4  ,but1 ,doctor1 not
 one of these households are said to    
have had children in them1 and if they  
did have children the children must have
 been old enough to believe1 because it 
is stated in the case of every one of   
them that those that were baptized      

believed or received the word that was  
spoken4 ,they were all old enough to    
hear1 to understand and to believe the  
,word4  ,from all the passages which ,i 
have heard in these discussions1 said   
the father1 one thing seems to stand out
 very plainly about baptism1 and that is
 that in the ,bible times faith had to  
come before baptism4  ,if this is so1   
said ,dorothy1 then infant baptism is   
unscriptural1 because it is a baptism   
without faith4 ,infants can not exercise
 faith4  ,daughter1 said the ,doctor1   
you are mistaken4 ,i can show you that  
in the case of every infant baptism     
there is always a faith that precedes   
the baptism4  ,what do you mean1        
,doctor8 asked ,dorothy in great        
perplexity4  ,at this moment the        
telephone bell rang and ,dorothy was    
called to speak to a girl friend1 who   
extended to her an invitation for a     
carriage ride on the next afternoon4 ,in
 a few moments the conversation was     
resumed4     ,,chapter ,,viii4          

,,wronging ,,the ,,little ,,ones4       
,doctor ,vincent1 said ,dorothy on her  
return to the room1 you were saying that
 the baptism of an infant is always     
preceded by faith4 ,how can that be8    
,can an infant exercise faith8  ,not the
 infant1 but the father or mother4  ,oh1
 you mean it is the parent that has     
faith6 ,and do you baptize an infant    
because the parent has faith8  ,yes4    
,either the parent or the god-parent    
must have faith4  ,the god-parent6      
exclaimed ,dorothy in a puzzled tone4   
,what is a god-parent8  ,if the child   
has not a parent1 then some ,christian  
man or woman believes for the child and 
is thus called its god-father or        
god-mother4  ,and so the infant1 in     
order to have baptism1 must have some   
person to believe for it8  ,yes1 my     
daughter1 you catch the idea exactly4   
,i thought you said just now that       
infants ought to be baptized because of 
their heavenly nature1 and now you say  
they cannot be baptized unless they can 

get some ,christian man or woman to     
believe for them4  ,the ,doctor for a   
moment was startled as he saw where his 
arguments had brought him4 ,he saw in a 
flash that both of the statements could 
not be true4  ,doctor1 which fact must  
,i accept8 she asked4 ,must we baptize  
infants because of what they are in     
themselves with their heavenly natures1 
or must we baptize only those infants   
who can come and have somebody believe  
for them8  ,i see your point1 and it has
 a show of logic in it4  ,oh1 ,doctor1  
she said1 almost impatiently1 why do you
 say a show of logic8 ,can both of these
 positions be true8 ,if the child's     
nature entitles it to baptism1 then all 
children are entitled to baptism2 but if
 it is the faith of some parent or some 
god-parent that entitles the child to   
baptism1 then it is only a certain class
 of infants that can be baptized and the
 baptism is put on the basis of the     
faith of another4  ,that sounds a little
 strange to me1 said the father4 ,i did 

not know that one person could be       
religious for another4 ,i thought that  
every tub had to stand on its own bottom
 in religion4 ,this thing of one person 
believing for another person so that the
 other person1 especially a little      
infant1 is entitled to baptism--well1   
that sounds very new and strange4 ,how  
can the parent make the child fit for   
baptism8 ,do you mean to tell me that if
 ,i had a little infant and ,i should   
believe in ,christianity that that would
 be a reason why not only ,i should be  
baptized1 but my little infant also8    
,is it thought1 ,doctor1 asked ,dorothy1
 that the baptism does the infant any   
good8  ,oh1 no1 said the ,doctor1 the   
baptism has no power in itself4  ,i     
think the baptism does the infant a     
wrong1 said ,dorothy4 ,baptism is a     
religious ceremony which everyone ought 
to obey of his own will and accord4 ,in 
the ,bible it comes after believing and 
is a sign of what has taken place in the
 person's heart4 ,now1 when you baptize 

an infant you force on him a religious  
ceremony4 ,suppose he grows up and is   
converted and desires to obey ,christ in
 baptism and then learns that baptism   
was forced on him in infancy4 ,instead  
of believing and then being baptized he 
is first baptized and then many years   
afterwards he believes4  ,and suppose1  
,doctor1 said the father1 he never      
believes2 then what have you got8 ,you  
have a person walking around baptized   
who ought never to have been baptized1  
though he is not to be blamed for it4   
,if the baptism does no good1 why do you
 baptize him8 ,why not follow the       
regular course and get him first to     
believe and then to be baptized8  ,i    
have an idea1 said the brother1 that    
infant baptism started with parents with
 dying infants who they thought would be
 lost if they were not baptized4  ,oh1  
never1 said the ,doctor4  ,well1 ,i     
remember in a house where ,i was        
boarding while at college that a mother 
thought her little infant was about to  

die and she sent off immediately for the
 preacher to baptize her child1 for she 
said she was afraid it would be lost if 
it died without baptism4 ,now1 if that  
mother had that idea about baptism1 why 
may not many others have the same idea  
about baptism8  ,since ,i come to think 
of it1 admitted the ,doctor1 ,i myself  
have had quite a number of excited      
mothers to ask me to baptize their sick 
infants because they were afraid for    
them to die without baptism2 but they   
are the exceptions and of course their  
fears were entirely groundless4 ,this is
 a ,catholic doctrine4 ,the ,catholics  
teach1 that baptism saves the infant1   
but we teach no such doctrine4  ,but is 
it not natural for the mother to get    
such an idea about baptism8 asked       
,dorothy4 ,they come to think that it   
keeps the child from being lost and the 
child1 as it grows up1 would get the    
idea from the mother that it was saved  
because of its baptism in infancy4 ,if  
the mother thought the baptism saved her

 child1 why would she not be apt to tell
 this to the child1 and how awful it    
would be for a child when grown to think
 that it was saved when actually it was 
lost4 ,doctor ,vincent1 this doctrine   
seems to me to be a frightful one4 ,it  
looks as if it might do a world of harm1
 and ,i cannot see where it does a      
particle of good2 and besides1 it is so 
different from that principle which     
father said just now was one of the     
characteristics of religion1 and that is
 that religion must be a personal       
matter4 ,each soul must be accountable  
to ,god1 and it is what ,i do and not   
what somebody else does for me for which
 ,i shall be held responsible4  ,my     
daughter1 said the ,doctor1 ,i have let 
the discussion run along for awhile in  
this fashion without mentioning the main
 feature and benefit of infant baptism4 
,it is a dedicatory ceremony4 ,the      
parent brings the child and offers or   
dedicates it in baptism to ,god2 and not
 only that1 never forget that the       

baptism does not stop with that4  ,with 
what8 asked ,dorothy4  ,with the        
sprinkling of the water4  ,you say the  
baptism does not stop with the          
sprinkling of the water8 ,what else1    
then1 ,doctor1 is added8  ,why1 the     
parent not only dedicates the child to  
,god1 but solemnly promises to watch    
over the child and to seek to train it  
up in the nurture and admonition of the 
,lord4  ,ought not every parent to do   
that8 asked ,dorothy4  ,exactly2 that is
 what ,i am contending for1 that every  
parent--,i mean every believing parent2 
we could hardly expect an unbelieving   
parent to do so--every believing parent 
ought to dedicate in baptism his infant 
and to make the promise for its         
religious training4  ,is it necessary to
 baptize the infant in order for the    
parent to make the promise8 asked       
,dorothy4  ,miss ,dorothy1 said the     
,doctor1 with a faint smile1 you amuse  
me2 you almost astonish me4 ,what grudge
 have you against the simple baptismal  

ceremony8 ,do you think there is        
anything wrong when the parent brings   
its little one to dedicate it to the    
,lord to have a few drops of water      
sprinkled upon the little one8          
,certainly not4 ,sprinkle as many drops 
upon the infant as you please2 sometimes
 the more the better4 ,but why call it  
baptism8 ,i think the wrong consists ,in
 calling it ,bible baptism4  ,oh1 you   
object to the sprinkling4 ,do you think 
we ought to plunge the infant in water8 
,not at all1 ,doctor4 ,it is true ,i do 
not believe sprinkling is baptism1 and  
in that respect ,i do not think you have
 even baptized the little one when you  
sprinkle it2 but admitting that         
sprinkling is scriptural baptism1 ,i    
think it is wrong to call the ceremony  
baptism4 ,it is all right for a parent  
to dedicate its child and to use water  
with it in any shape1 but do not let the
 parent call it baptism4 ,baptism is    
something that the person receives of   
his own accord1 and that comes after    

believing and as a sign that the person 
has had a change1 that the person has   
died to his old life1 as we read the    
other night1 and has risen to a new     
life2 but don't call the sprinkling of  
water on an infant baptism and thus     
deprive that child ever afterwards of   
having a regular ,bible baptism1        
performed on himself by his own choice4 
,i find myself all confused1 ,doctor1 as
 ,i try to understand your reasons for  
infant baptism4 ,you must let me tell   
you frankly how it appeals to me4 ,at   
first you said the child deserved       
baptism because of its own heavenly     
nature1 and next you said it deserved   
baptism not because of its own          
condition1 but because of the faith of  
its parent1 and now you mention this    
other idea of dedication and pledging on
 the part of the parent4 ,this last     
characteristic seems to have more       
reference to the parent than to the     
child1 and seems to make the baptism    
something that is used for binding the  

parent to do his duty to the child4 ,in 
that case you make the baptism a matter 
of the parent doing his duty1 and if    
there is any religion in the ordinance  
it seems to be on the part of the parent
 instead of the child4 ,if you call that
 ,bible baptism1 ,i think you put       
baptism in the wrong place4  ,sterling  
presented a picture4 ,he had hung his   
hopes high on the ,doctor's arguments4  
,in fact1 he came to the house with a   
feeling of triumph and wondered why he  
had not thought of bringing the ,doctor 
into the discussion earlier4 ,but as he 
had tried to follow the ,doctor in his  
different arguments1 he had found       
himself lost in a wilderness4 ,he kept  
up his courage1 however1 believing that 
ultimately victory would come4  ,doctor1
 said ,dorothy after she had remained   
thoughtful for awhile1 is there not     
great danger in infant baptism that     
people will get the idea that salvation 
comes through a ceremony rather than    
from ,christ8 ,you spoke of the mothers 

thinking baptism would save their       
infants4 ,if those mothers think so1    
then do you not see that the practice of
 infant baptism in a community helps to 
spread abroad in that community the idea
 that salvation comes by some outward   
magical performance8  ,at this point    
,dorothy was called to the door by a    
party of young people1 who were         
returning from a walk1 and who1 seeing a
 light in the ,page home1 had run in for
 a few minutes4  ,father1 said ,dorothy1
 you must listen to the ,doctor for me  
and give me the points when ,i return4  
,,chapter ,,ix4  ,,circumcision ,,to    
,,the ,,rescue4   ,let me say1 continued
 the ,doctor1 that ,i have not yet      
mentioned the strongest reason for      
infant baptism4  ,the remark waked new  
hope in ,sterling4  ,what is that       
reason1 ,doctor8 asked the father4  ,it 
is the argument of circumcision4 ,in the
 ,old ,testament times the command was  
that every male child of ,jewish parents
 should be circumcised4 ,this           

circumcision made the child a member of 
the ,jewish church and of the covenant  
of grace4 ,now in the ,christian        
dispensation1 after ,christ came1       
circumcision was done away with and     
baptism was put in its place1 and it is 
now baptism instead of circumcision that
 admits one into the church4  ,you are  
getting into deep water for me1 but let 
me make the effort to catch your point4 
,you say that in the olden times--      
,yes1 in the days of the ,old           
,testament4  ,well1 you say that in     
those days every male child of ,jewish  
parents was circumcised and thereby     
admitted into the ,jewish church1 and so
 in the ,christian church every male    
child--  ,no1 not simply every male     
child1 but every child1 both male and   
female1 who was baptized was admitted   
into the ,christian church4  ,well1 why 
this difference8 ,if they circumcised   
only the males in the old church1 why do
 you not baptize simply the males in the
 ,christian church if baptism is put in 

the place of circumcision8  ,there is no
 reason why the females1 as well as the 
males1 should not be baptized1 but there
 was a difference in the matter of      
circumcision4  ,this is surely a new    
kind of argument for infant baptism4  ,i
 think it is a very natural one4 ,god   
does not change his plans of dealing    
with his people4 ,in the first covenant 
all ,jewish children were admitted into 
the covenant simply because their       
parents were members of the commonwealth
 or church1 and the condition of their  
admission was their circumcision4 ,now  
if ,god would admit the children in the 
old dispensation1 would he not admit    
them also in the new8 ,and what is the  
sign under the new dispensation8 ,is it 
circumcision8 ,oh1 no2 it is baptism4   
,that seems plain and unanswerable4  ,so
 then it is not the inherent heavenly   
nature of the child1 but the fact that  
one of the parents is a ,christian that 
makes you baptize his little ones4      
,yes1 that is the reason4 ,the parent   

must of course promise to train the     
child aright4 ,circumcision was the door
 to the ,old ,testament church1 while   
baptism is the door to the ,new         
,testament church4  ,here is a foot note
 in this family ,bible on this passage1 
said the father4 ,it says that 'in the  
old dispensation all the natural        
children of ,abraham were by            
circumcision admitted into the ,jewish  
church2 so now all who are the spiritual
 children of ,abraham are by baptism    
admitted into the ,christian church'4   
,exactly so1 exclaimed the brother4 ,the
 contrast is between the natural and the
 spiritual children of ,abraham4 ,the   
natural descendants of ,abraham1 who    
were of course ,jews1 were admitted by  
circumcision4 ,i think if you wish to   
run the parallel you must follow that   
line4 ,in the ,old ,testament it was a  
natural relationship and in the ,new    
,testament it is a spiritual            
relationship4  ,son1 you are surely on  
the right track4 ,this foot note here   

says 'all believers are the spiritual   
children of ,abraham'4 ,christ said he  
could raise up children unto ,abraham1  
who was the father of the faithful4     
,every such believer is entitled to     
baptism and church membership4 ,why1    
that is plain4 ,it runs this way3 ,in   
the old dispensation all natural        
children of ,abraham were admitted by   
circumcision4 ,in the new dispensation  
all spiritual children of ,abraham--that
 is1 all believers--are admitted by     
baptism2 but you will notice1 ,doctor1  
if the spiritual children are believers 
there can be no infants among them4     
,the brother was busy looking in the    
subject index of the ,bible for passages
 about circumcision in the ,new         
,testament1 and he soon remarked3 ,here 
is an account of a discussion in a      
council concerning circumcision4 ,it is 
found in the book of ,acts1 the         
fifteenth chapter4  ,read it1 said the  
father4 ,we want light on this subject4 
,that council met in ,jerusalem and was 

made up of the apostles and other       
disciples to consider certain doctrinal 
matters1 said the ,doctor4  ,roland     
began to read the account of the        
council3 ',and certain men which came   
down from ,judea taught the brethren and
 said except ye be circumcised after the
 manner of ,moses1 ye cannot be saved4' 
,now you are getting at the core1 said  
the father4 ,you see they are discussing
 whether they have to be circumcised4 ,i
 guess the apostles will say they need  
not be circumcised because baptism has  
been put in its place4 ,read along and  
see if it does not say that4  ,he ran   
his eye down every verse1 but could find
 no such statement4  ,do ,i understand  
that they came together in that council 
to discuss whether circumcision was     
necessary for salvation1 and that       
nothing was said about baptism having   
been put in its place8 asked ,mr4 ,page4
  ,it certainly looks that way1 said    
,roland4  ,what did that council decide8
 asked the father4  ,the council decided

 that it was not necessary for the      
,gentiles to be circumcised1 answered   
,mr4 ,sterling4  ,who were the          
,gentiles8 asked the father4  ,they were
 all the people who were not ,jews4     
,you mean that they were discussing     
whether it was necessary for the        
,gentiles to be circumcised1 and that it
 was decided that it was not necessary1 
and now do you say that nothing in this 
discussion was said about baptism having
 taken the place of circumcision8  ,oh1 
this may have been said in the          
discussion1 but there is no record of   
it4  ,they would hardly have left it out
 of the record if there had been any    
mention of it in the discussion4 ,i     
notice here in this chapter they give   
the different reasons for their views2  
but the word baptism is not mentioned4  
,if baptism had taken the place of      
circumcision1 would it not have been    
natural for one of the apostles to have 
said something like this3 ',why1 of     
course it is not necessary to be        

circumcised1 because baptism has taken  
the place of circumcision4' ,that would 
have settled the question4  ,i have     
another point1 said ,doctor ,vincent1   
but let's wait a few moments for ,miss  
,dorothy's return4  ,in a few minutes   
,dorothy rejoined the party and the     
,doctor remarked3  ,i can show you that 
the ,bible teaches plainly that ,god    
will take the faith of the ,christian   
parent for that of the child4  ,do show 
it to us1 said ,dorothy1 eagerly4  ,paul
 declares that the faith of a parent    
makes the child holy and sanctifies the 
child4  ,i don't know what you mean by  
sanctifying the child1 but show us that 
passage1 ,doctor4  ,let me see if ,i    
understand your point1 ,doctor ,vincent1
 said ,mr4 ,page4 ,you assert that the  
,bible declares that the faith of a     
parent will make the child holy8  ,yes4 
,i want to see that passage4  ,the      
,doctor turned to #a ,cor4 #g3ad and    
read3 ',for the unbelieving husband is  
sanctified by the wife and the          

unbelieving wife is sanctified by the   
husband2 else were your children unclean
 but now are they holy4'  ,hello1 said  
,mr4 ,page1 that sounds like it4  ,it is
 very plain1 said the ,doctor4 ,the     
apostle has said that a believer must   
not marry an unbeliever2 but then       
someone may say3 ',suppose a believer   
has already married an unbeliever1 must 
the believing wife leave her unbelieving
 husband8' ',no1' says ,paul4 ',the     
believing wife sanctifies the husband   
and thus the marriage is not unclean1   
but a proper one4' ,the fact that one of
 the parties is an unbeliever does not  
make the union an unclean one1 but he   
says the child of such a union is holy4 
,note that4 ,what does he mean by that  
word 'holy'8 ,the ,jews1 according to   
the old covenant1 regarded all who were 
not ,jews as unclean or unholy2 that is1
 as not partakers of the holy covenant4 
,but all of ,abraham's descendants were 
holy2 that is1 were partakers of the    
covenant1 and ,paul here states that the

 children of ,christian parents1 even   
though only one of the parents was a    
believer1 were holy4  ,but1 ,doctor1    
said ,dorothy1 ,i do not see anything   
about infant baptism in all that4  ,this
 is related to infant baptism4 ,the     
point before us now is as to whether the
 faith or belief of a parent makes the  
child holy1 and ,paul says it does4 ,the
 question was asked where the ,bible    
taught that the faith of the parent was 
taken for the faith of the infant1 and  
,i mentioned this passage4  ,but does   
this passage teach that8  ,it           
undoubtedly does4 ,it declares that one 
believing parent sanctifies the child2  
that is1 makes the child holy1 and that 
is the same thing4  ,i am not much on   
,scripture1 broke in the father1 and ,i 
guess ,i had better keep my hands off of
 this part of the argument1 and yet that
 passage sounded to me as if the writer 
was trying to keep married couples from 
separating simply because one of them   
might be an unbeliever4  ,that is       

correct1 said the ,doctor4  ,exactly1   
continued ,mr4 ,page4 ,the writer wanted
 the ,christians who were married to    
those who were not ,christians to       
understand that their marriage was ,o4  
,k41 and that their children were also  
,o4 ,k4 ,otherwise a ,christian wife    
might feel that her marriage and her    
children were unclean4 ,is that right1  
,doctor8  ,yes1 but do not lose sight of
 the main point1 which is that the faith
 or holiness of the parent makes the    
child holy4  ,but look here6 exclaimed  
,dorothy1 as if she had made a          
discovery4 ,it says that the believing  
wife sanctifies not only the child1 but 
also the unbelieving husband4 ,do you   
believe that a believing wife sanctifies
 an unbelieving husband8  ,of course not
 the husband4 ,a believing wife cannot  
make an unbelieving husband holy and a  
member of the covenant of grace4  ,but  
it says here that the believing wife    
sanctifies the unbelieving husband1     
insisted ,dorothy4  ,that means that in 

the case under consideration the        
marriage must not be considered an      
unclean relation so as to make the wife 
leave the husband or consider herself   
involved in an unclean relation4  ,when 
it says the unbelieving husband is      
sanctified by the believing wife1 does  
his sanctification mean becoming a      
member of the covenant8 asked ,dorothy4 
,no1 not at all4  ,why1 then1 do you say
 that the child who is made holy by the 
parent is made a partaker of the        
covenant8 ,do the words 'holy' and      
'sanctified' mean the same thing8  ,yes1
 they are practically the same4  ,it    
seems clear as a sunbeam to me from that
 passage1 broke in the father1 that     
whatever was done to the child by the   
faith of the believing parent was also  
done to the unbelieving husband1 for it 
plainly says so4 ,let us have that      
passage again1 daughter4  ,she read3    
',for the unbelieving husband is        
sanctified by the believing wife--'     
,there you have it plain1 said the      

father4 ,and the unbelieving wife is    
sanctified by the believing husband1    
else were your children unclean but now 
they are holy4  ,and look here6         
exclaimed ,dorothy1 examining the       
passage closely4 ,in a verse or two     
below it says3 ',for how knowest thou1  
,oh wife1 whether thou shalt save thy   
husband8'  ,there1 now1 said the father1
 'save thy husband'4 ,he evidently was  
not saved by his believing wife4 ,it    
shows that1 even though he was          
sanctified by the faith of his wife1 yet
 he was not saved4 ,sanctification did  
not mean much for him1 and maybe it did 
not mean much either for the children4  
,the writer was trying1 ,i think1 to    
keep those marriages intact1 and ,i     
guess he had a hard time of it          
sometimes4 ,even though that husband was
 sanctified1 yet he needed saving4 ,that
 looks mightily as if the sanctifying   
part had reference to the marriage      
relation of that husband and wife and   
not to any spiritual or religious       

condition of the husband1 and therefore 
not to anything spiritual as regards the
 child4  ,look here1 said the ,doctor   
with a smile1 ,i think ,mr4 ,page will  
have to start a commentary4  ,i see you 
have a twinkle in your eye1 retorted    
,mr4 ,page1 and consequently ,i will not
 extract any compliment from your       
remark4  ,the conversation ended at this
 point4 ,the ,doctor stated that an     
engagement compelled him to hurry from  
what to him had been a very interesting 
discussion1 and that he would be glad to
 renew it4 ,he bowed himself out and    
,dorothy remarked3  ,father1 ,i cannot  
tell you how strange ,i feel4 ,i        
appreciate ,doctor ,vincent's efforts to
 help me to know my duty1 but this      
conversation tonight has made one thing 
clear to me1 and that is that ,i can    
never join a church that teaches and    
practices sprinkling and infant baptism4
  ,miss ,dorothy1 said ,mr4 ,sterling1  
,i think you could join my church1 and  
,i think you ought to do so1 even though

 you do not believe these two doctrines4
  ,daughter1 if you won't join the      
,presbyterian church1 ,i don't know     
which way you will look4  ,but why1     
,miss ,dorothy1 can you not join my     
church8  ,because ,i feel it would be   
wrong for me to join your church        
believing as ,i do about these matters4 
,wrong for you to join that church1     
daughter8 ,i can't see where any wrong  
would be involved in your joining any   
decent church4  ,don't you think1       
father1 that it would be wrong for me to
 join a church that teaches that infants
 ought to be baptized and that          
sprinkling is baptism1 when the ,bible  
seems so clearly to me to teach that    
infants ought not to be baptized and    
that only immersion is baptism8 ,what   
about my baptism8 ,i would have to be   
sprinkled if ,i joined your church1     
would ,i not1 ,mr4 ,sterling8  ,i think 
you ought to be sprinkled1 he replied4  
,do you think ,i ought to be sprinkled  
when ,i think the ,new ,testament       

teaches so clearly that immersion is    
baptism8  ,but1 ,miss ,dorothy1 will you
 set your judgment up against the       
judgment of the learned divines and     
scholars of the churches8  ,i do not set
 myself up against them1 but ,dr4       
,moreland said that each one of us must 
study our ,bible and go where it led us2
 and besides1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 ,i have   
considered all your arguments for       
sprinkling and all ,dr4 ,vincent's      
arguments for infant baptism1 and ,i    
take for granted that you have brought  
out the strongest passages on that side1
 and yet in the face of them it seems to
 me that none of the passages point to  
sprinkling and infant baptism1 while    
many passages point clearly to the      
baptism only of believers and to        
immersion as the only baptism4 ,i must  
not put away my judgment and go directly
 against that to follow the judgment of 
another1 must ,i8 ,suppose ,i should    
join your church1 believing that your   
church was doing wrong in putting       

something else in the place of ,bible   
baptism2 think how uncomfortable ,i     
would feel4 ,i would either have to keep
 silent about what ,i believed or else  
,i would be constantly engaged in       
argument with the members4  ,maybe that 
would be a good thing4 ,you might       
convert some of us to your way of       
thinking4  ,but is that the right basis 
on which to select a church8 ,do you    
choose a church without reference to    
what they or you believe1 or do those   
who believe other things go together in 
another denomination8  ,you will never  
find a church where everybody in it     
believes exactly the same thing about   
,bible teaching4  ,of course not2 but ,i
 thought you were mentioning the        
principal doctrines of your church about
 which all your members are agreed4     
,you are correct about that4  ,i cannot 
get away from the belief that ,i ought  
to join that church that seems to come  
nearest to holding those truths that ,i 
hold4  ,maybe there is no such church1  

daughter1 said the father4 ,what other  
churches are there1 ,mr4 ,sterling8 ,i  
know of a few--the ,methodist1 the      
,episcopal1 the ,catholic--  ,i am sorry
 ,i must leave this charming circle1 but
 let us take up the other denominations 
tomorrow evening4  ,good1 said the      
father4 ,we shall expect you1 then1     
tomorrow evening4     ,,chapter ,x4     
,,the ,,disciple ,,preacher4   ,the next
 morning was spent by ,dorothy at the   
library searching through encyclopedias 
and making full notes4 ,on the next     
evening the discussion was resumed4     
,well1 here we are1 said the father1    
coming into the library a short while   
after supper4 ,he had heard ,mr4        
,sterling's voice4 ,now let us take up  
the subject of the other churches4      
,sterling was anxious to get into that  
subject1 for he felt confident that the 
result would be that ,dorothy would find
 it as easy to decide for the           
,presbyterians as for any of the others1
 and probably more so4 ,he began with   

the remark3  ,the other                 
denominations--the ,methodist1 the      
,episcopal and the ,catholic--which you 
mentioned last night believe just as we 
do about sprinkling1 and infant baptism4
  ,there now1 said the father1 you are  
shut out of four denominations at the   
start4  ,that may be true1 said         
,dorothy1 with a troubled look on her   
face1 and yet what else can ,i do8 ,is  
there no church1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 that   
believes that only immersion is baptism 
and that only believers ought to be     
baptized8  ,yes1 there is one           
denomination--the ,campbellites1 or     
rather the ,disciples--for they do not  
like the first name4 ,the ,disciples    
believe only in immersion and the       
immersion of believers4 ,they are the   
only denomination that teach this       
except1 ,i believe1 the ,baptists2 but  
of course you would not join them4  ,it 
looks1 daughter1 as if you are shut up  
to the ,disciples4  ,but think1 ,miss   
,dorothy1 these ,disciples have just    

started up not a great many years ago4  
,they are a small denomination and with 
few churches4  ,that does not make any  
difference4 ,believing as ,i do about   
the ,bible1 ,i would certainly feel more
 comfortable with them1 than with some  
other denominations whose doctrines ,i  
could not accept4 ,it seems to me ,i    
would have to cry out and not keep      
quiet4  ,but how do you know that you   
would believe the other doctrines of the
 ,disciples8 ,you seem to have fallen   
suddenly in love with them4  ,what do   
they believe8  ,they believe in         
baptismal regeneration4  ,my1 those are 
words6 said ,dorothy with a smile4      
,what do you mean by that1 ,mr4         
,sterling8 asked ,mr4 ,page4  ,they     
believe that a person's sins are washed 
away in baptism4  ,washed away in       
baptism8 asked ,dorothy with amazement4 
,are you sure they believe such a       
strange doctrine8  ,i know it4 ,i have  
heard their ministers say that a person 
was not saved until he was baptized4    

,what1 even though the person had       
believed in ,christ8  ,they say that    
such a person is only partly saved and  
not completely saved until he is        
baptized4  ,i can't understand1 ,mr4    
,sterling1 what you mean by being partly
 saved4 ,don't you reckon you have been 
misinformed about these people8  ,i have
 been told that there is a ,disciple    
preacher that lives here in town1 said  
the father1 and that he has two churches
 out in the county1 but makes his home  
here4 ,suppose you capture him1         
,sterling1 and march him up here to     
speak for himself1 and tell him you have
 a prospective member for him4 ,the last
 remark was accompanied with a smile at 
,sterling and a wink towards the        
daughter4  ,no1 indeed1 you must not    
tell him that1 spoke up ,dorothy4 ,and  
yet ,i should like to hear about the    
doctrines of his church4 ,i want to know
 my duty and ,i desire all the light ,i 
can get4  ,sterling felt sure that      
,dorothy would recoil from the doctrines

 of the ,disciple church4  ,on the next 
evening at eight o'clock ,mr4 ,sterling 
arrived1 bringing the ,rev4 ,mr4        
,garland1 the ,disciple minister4 ,he   
was a striking figure4 ,young1 tall and 
with classic face and fluent speech1 he 
commanded attention at his first word4  
,sterling saw that he was captured      
immediately by ,dorothy's beauty1 and he
 thought that he also noticed that the  
handsome young preacher was not entirely
 unobserved by ,dorothy4 ,but the       
shadowy suspicion flitted out of his    
mind as rapidly as it had slipped in4   
,not a great many words were spent in   
preliminaries4 ,mr4 ,sterling soon      
remarked3  ,miss ,dorothy1 ,i have told 
,mr4 ,garland about the earnest study   
you are making of the different         
churches4 ,the question came up1 ,mr4   
,garland1 as to the doctrines of your   
church4 ,i told them your church        
believed in immersion as baptism and    
also in the immersion of none but       
believers4  ,mr4 ,garland with a bow    

indicated that ,sterling had stated the 
case correctly4  ,i also said that your 
church believed in baptismal            
regeneration4  ,oh1 never6 replied ,mr4 
,garland4  ,i thought you believed that 
a person was not saved until he was     
baptized4  ,yes1 but that is a very     
different statement from your first one4
  ,what is the difference8 ,if he is not
 saved until he is baptized1 then ,i    
should think his baptism must have      
something to do with his salvation4     
,here is my position3 ',the ,bible      
declares that he that believeth and is  
baptized shall be saved'4 ,note that not
 he that believeth shall be saved1 but  
he that believeth and is baptized shall 
be saved4 ,that shows that it takes both
 believing and baptism to save a person4
  ,how about the thief on the cross8 ,he
 was saved without baptism1 don't you   
think so8  ,baptism was impossible for  
him1 and ,god does not require          
impossibilities4 ,besides1 that was an  
unusual case and ,christ made an        

exception in his conversion and         
salvation4  ,but does the ,bible say it 
was an exceptional case8 ,if he could be
 saved without baptism1 why not others8 
,but let me remind you that you did not 
read to the end of that passage that you
 quoted just now4 ,you read a part--'he 
that believeth and is baptized shall be 
saved'--but read the remainder of the   
verse4  ,mr4 ,garland repeated the other
 part of the verse as follows3 ,he that 
believeth not shall be damned4          
,exactly1 said ,sterling4 ,that seems to
 teach that believing is the important  
thing4 ,he does not say that a person is
 lost if he leaves out both believing   
and baptism1 but simply if he leaves out
 believing1 as if believing was the     
necessary thing for salvation4 ,if      
baptism had been a necessary part of    
salvation1 ,christ would have said 'he  
that believeth not and is not baptized  
shall be damned'4  ,not at all4 ,there  
are two things necessary to salvation1  
believing and baptism1 and leaving out  

either one of them is sufficient to     
cause a person to be lost4 ,you have to 
mention both of them in stating what is 
necessary for salvation1 but you need   
mention only one of them which1 if      
neglected1 will cause a person to be    
lost4  ,you think1 then1 ,christ could  
also have said 'he that is not baptized 
shall be damned'8 ,would a believer in  
,christ be lost if he were not baptized8
  ,if he could be baptized and would not
 be1 then ,i think he would be lost4    
,mr4 ,garland1 said ,dorothy1 really ,i 
cannot understand what you mean4 ,mr4   
,sterling said that he thought your     
denomination believed that in baptism   
the water washed away a person's sins4  
,you say you do not believe that4 ,do   
you think the water has any magic about 
it8 ,if ,mr4 ,sterling should immerse a 
person1 would that water help to make   
him a saved person8  ,no1 not that4 ,i  
do not believe the water has any        
spiritual cleansing or saving efficacy1 
and ,i don't think it does anybody any  

good whatever unless the person first   
believes in ,christ4 ,i think believing 
is one part and that baptism is the     
second part4  ,you don't think1 then1   
asked ,mr4 ,sterling1 that a person is  
saved simply by believing8  ,at this    
point a message came for ,mr4 ,sterling 
that he was wanted at his home on an    
important matter4 ,too bad1 he said1 for
 this discussion is getting mighty      
interesting4 ,i hate to miss any of it4 
,we will hold it until your return1 said
 ,dorothy4 ,i will try to keep ,mr4     
,garland contented during your absence4 
,sterling could not understand why she  
should be so contented to have him leave
 and should so happily accept ,mr4      
,garland's company4 ,the thought that he
 might not be able to return that night 
irritated him4 ,fortunately1 he was     
successful in attending in a few minutes
 to the matter that called him home1 and
 in less than twenty minutes he was     
hurrying back across the lawn to the    
,page library4  ,hello1 said the father1

 you must have chartered the lightning  
express4 ,but we held up the proceedings
 until your return and are now ready to 
get down to business again4 ,where were 
we when you left8  ,i had just asked    
,mr4 ,garland if he believed a person   
was saved simply by believing1 and he   
remarked that he did not4 ,i would like 
to ask ,mr4 ,garland this question3     
,what about the inquiry that the        
,philippian jailer put to ,paul and     
,silas8 ,you remember that when the     
jailer was converted he came in         
trembling before ,paul and ,silas and   
said3 ',sirs1 what must ,i do to be     
saved8' ,and what did they answer8      
,believe on the ,lord ,jesus ,christ and
 thou shalt be saved4' ,not one word1   
you see1 about baptism4  ,you would     
think1 said ,dorothy1 that they would   
have said 'believe on the ,lord ,jesus  
,christ and be baptized and thou shalt  
be saved'1 would you not1 ,mr4 ,garland8
  ,yes1 but you notice that just a      
little while afterwards that very night 

the jailer was baptized4 ,you see the   
baptism had to come4 ,in fact1 baptism  
always came immediately after believing4
 ,it was a necessary part1 and the work 
was not complete until the baptism had  
taken place4  ,but does that prove that 
the baptism was a part of the man's     
conversion or salvation8 asked          
,sterling4 ,suppose the person had      
fallen dead just after he had believed  
and before any baptism was performed on 
him1 would he not have been saved8 ,if  
so1 ,i think it proves that he was saved
 simply by believing1 and that baptism  
is simply a matter of obedience4  ,by   
the way1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 said ,dorothy1 
you remember that passage in ,romans    
where it speaks of being buried by      
baptism4 ,we found that baptism was a   
picture of something that had already   
taken place in the person's heart and   
life--that he had been buried to his old
 life and risen to a new life4 ,it is   
not baptism1 therefore1 that helps to   
make the change in a person1 but it     

simply pictures the change that has     
already taken place4  ,what is the use  
of a person being baptized8 asked ,mr4  
,garland1 if he can be saved without    
being baptized8  ,mr4 ,garland1 ,i trust
 that ,i have already been saved by     
believing in ,christ4 ,i want to be     
baptized1 however1 not to help me to be 
saved1 for if ,i am not saved now ,i    
certainly do not think my going down    
into the water will make me any more    
saved4 ,i simply want to be baptized    
because ,christ was baptized and because
 he commands all who believe in him to  
be baptized1 and because all those who  
claimed to believe in him in the days of
 the apostles were baptized4 ,i reckon  
,i will find from the ,bible that there 
are a great many other things besides   
baptism that ,i must do1 but that does  
not mean that the doing of all these    
things is a part of my conversion or    
salvation4  ,i guess you take up these  
duties because you are already a        
,christian and already saved4 ,if you   

were not already a ,christian ,i guess  
you would not feel like doing them1 said
 the father4  ,i do not exactly agree to
 that1 remarked ,mr4 ,garland1 and yet  
,i do not think we are very far apart4  
,there are some people of our           
denomination who go to an extreme and   
declare that the water does wash away   
sins1 and they seem to put more stress  
on the baptism than on the believing4   
,my doctrine is that every believer must
 be baptized1 and that unless he does   
become baptized he has no right to      
consider himself saved4  ,but that is   
different1 said ,dorothy4 ,of course1 if
 a person refuses to be baptized1       
although he believes that ,christ       
commands it1 why1 such a person has no  
right to claim to be converted4 ,i can't
 imagine a converted person flatly      
refusing to do what he believes ,christ 
commands4 ,i cannot understand1 ,mr4    
,garland1 just what your doctrine about 
baptism is4  ,we have another doctrine  
which ,i am sure you will like1 said    

,mr4 ,garland4  ,what is that8 asked    
,dorothy1 who was eager to learn        
everything possible about the           
denomination4  ,we believe in what is   
called open communion rather than in    
what is called close communion4  ,i     
don't understand what you mean4  ,i mean
 this4 ,the ,lord gave two ordinances to
 the church1 baptism and the ,lord's    
,supper4  ,yes1 that is what ,mr4       
,sterling told us4  ,now as to          
communion1 one of the questions of the  
day about which ,christians are divided 
is the question as to who ought to be   
admitted to the communion4  ,let me     
understand clearly about the ,lord's    
,supper4 ,i have read about it in the   
,new ,testament1 but ,i wish you would  
explain it to me fully4  ,christ1 on the
 last night that he spent with his      
apostles1 instituted this supper of     
bread and wine4  ,yes1 ,i have read     
that4  ,he told them that the bread     
typified his body that was that night to
 be broken for them1 and that the wine  

poured out typified his blood that was  
that night to be poured out for them1   
and that when he was gone they must     
repeat that ceremony1 and they must do  
that in remembrance of him2 and that as 
often as they did that they would show  
forth his death until he should come    
again4  ,what a beautiful thought6 ,and 
so that is why the people in the church 
have the communion8 ,i see it clearly   
now4 ,what1 then1 do you mean by open   
communion8  ,i mean that we throw the   
door to the communion table open4 ,we do
 not say that nobody but members of our 
denomination should come to our         
communion table1 but that anybody who   
loves the ,lord may come4  ,you mean    
anybody who is a ,christian8  ,yes4     
,well1 that would certainly seem proper4
 ,does the ,bible specify who ought to  
come to the communion8  ,we simply have 
to take the practice of the apostles and
 early ,christians4 ,it looks as if all 
people who loved the ,lord were welcome 
to the table4  ,don't all people believe

 alike on that point8 asked ,dorothy4   
,yes1 all except the ,baptists4 ,they   
believe that none but ,baptist people   
have any right to the communion4  ,oh1  
how selfish6  ,they believe that unless 
you have been immersed you must not come
 to the table1 said ,mr4 ,sterling1 and 
they will not let anybody come to the   
table when they have it in their church 
unless he has been baptized in their    
way4  ,why not8  ,i don't know1 unless  
it be because they are so ignorant and  
narrow4  ,maybe they believe1 ventured  
,dorothy1 that a person ought to be     
baptized before he takes the communion4 
,of course1 said ,sterling1 that is just
 what they do believe2 and since ,i come
 to think of it1 our church holds the   
same position as to baptism4 ,our church
 believes that a person must first be   
baptized4  ,you mean1 said ,dorothy1    
that your church and the ,baptists      
believe alike on the communion question8
  ,not exactly4 ,we both believe that   
baptism must come before the communion1 

but we differ as to what constitutes    
baptism4  ,does the ,bible teach that a 
person must be baptized before he can   
commune8  ,the ,bible teaches that all  
who believed were immediately baptized4 
,that always seemed to be the first     
thing they did4  ,it seems the natural  
thing to me1 said the father1 for       
baptism to come first1 and before the   
other duties of the ,christian life4 ,in
 the passages which we have studied     
baptism seemed to follow on the heels of
 believing4 ,the question is1 however1  
does the ,bible have anything to say on 
that subject8 ,does it teach that       
baptism must come before the communion8 
,i think it would look strange for a    
person to be going to the communion     
table before he was baptized1 said      
,dorothy4  ,excuse me1 ,miss ,page1 said
 ,mr4 ,garland4 ,is it a question as to 
what you or ,i might think ought to be  
done1 or is it a question as to what the
 ,bible teaches8 ,i affirm that the     
,bible does not state that baptism is a 

prerequisite to the communion4  ,that is
 a somewhat new question to me1 said    
,dorothy1 looking at ,mr4 ,sterling1 as 
if he were the proper one to give the   
answer4  ,we do not have from the lips  
of ,christ the actual words1 said ,mr4  
,sterling1 'ye must be baptized before  
partaking of the communion'1 but ,i     
think it is definitely implied in       
,scripture4 ,in the first place1 take   
the command of ,christ3 ',go ye into all
 the world and disciple all nations1    
baptizing them in the name of the       
,father1 the ,son and the ,holy ,ghost1 
teaching them to observe all things     
whatsoever ,i have commanded you4'      
,there you have first baptism1 and next 
observing all things that ,christ has   
commanded1 and the ,lord's ,supper is   
one of these things4  ,very true1 said  
,mr4 ,garland1 but you exclude the great
 body of ,christians from the table     
simply on your interpretation of that   
one verse4  ,isn't this the proof8 asked
 ,dorothy4 ,in nearly all the passages  

about baptism we have read we found that
 baptism always came immediately after  
the believing2 and father1 ,i feel that 
,i must not delay my baptism4 ,what     
shall ,i do1 and whom shall ,i ask to   
baptize me8 ,i think1 ,mr4 ,garland1    
that ,i ought not to go to the communion
 table until ,i have been baptized4     
,that seemed to be the custom in the    
days of the apostles4  ,suppose people  
in the days of the apostles did become  
baptized quickly after conversion1 said 
,mr4 ,garland1 would that prove that no 
one has a right to commune before he has
 been baptized8  ,i think it does1 if we
 find that in every case the first thing
 people did after believing was to be   
baptized4 ,it must mean that they were  
instructed by the apostles that baptism 
came first4  ,do you mean that it would 
have been wrong for them to have done   
anything whatever before baptism8  ,of  
course they could not cease all         
activity4  ,why1 then1 do you pick out  
the ,lord's ,supper as something they   

must not engage in until they were      
baptized8  ,because1 said ,sterling1    
there are two ordinances1 and if the    
ordinance of baptism always came first1 
then the other ordinance must not come  
first1 and so ,i think it is clear that 
only baptized persons had the right to  
the table4 ,don't you remember about the
 people converted on the day of         
,pentecost8 ,it reads 'then they that   
gladly received his words were          
baptized'1 and then in the next verse we
 read that 'they continued steadfastly  
in the apostles' doctrines and prayer   
and in breaking of bread'4 ,notice      
'breaking of bread' came after baptism4 
,does the ,bible say anything about who 
ought to commune or who did commune in  
those days8 asked ,dorothy4  ,get your  
concordance1 daughter1 said the father4 
,dorothy did so and soon turned to a    
passage about the ,lord's ,supper4 ,in  
,first ,corinthians1 chapter nine1 the  
writer is writing to some people about  
celebrating the ,lord's ,supper4  ,is   

that so6 exclaimed the father4 ,find out
 then whom he is writing to and who are 
taking part in that supper1 and that    
will answer your question4  ,it was the 
,corinthian church1 said ,mr4 ,sterling4
  ,if it was the members of the church  
who were taking communion1 then they    
must all have been baptized1 don't you  
think so1 ,mr4 ,garland8 asked ,dorothy4
  ,i guess the members of that church at
 ,corinth which was founded by ,paul    
were all baptized4  ,it does look plain1
 then1 said ,dorothy1 that all those    
early ,christians were first baptized   
and then took the communion and then    
performed the duties that came up4      
,yes1 spoke up ,mr4 ,sterling1 glad to  
join the forces with ,dorothy against   
,garland1 baptism was a duty to be      
performed once and for all time and in  
the beginning1 but the communion is     
something that is to be observed right  
along through the ,christian life at    
regular times4  ,mr4 ,garland1 said     
,dorothy1 ,i can't understand why anyone

 should want to come to the communion   
table before he is baptized4 ,why does  
he not do the first duty first8  ,i     
don't see the point in all this1 said   
the father4 ,i think it is a clear      
proposition that baptism always comes   
first after believing and before        
communion4 ,but all the churches        
baptize--,presbyterians1 ,disciples1    
,methodists and the rest4 ,why1 then1   
cannot they all commune together8  ,ah6 
said ,mr4 ,garland with a smile1 there  
is the point4 ,these other denominations
 have been sprinkled1 but according to  
the ,bible they have not been baptized4 
,now if ,i believed that baptism had to 
come before communion1 ,i would not     
commune with the ,presbyterians1        
,methodists and others who sprinkle1    
because ,i do not believe they have been
 scripturally baptized2 but even though 
,i think them unbaptized1 yet ,i would  
invite them to the communion1 because ,i
 do not think baptism is necessary to   
the communion4  ,that certainly sounds  

strange1 said ,dorothy4 ,why1 ,i thought
 you considered baptism so important    
that a person could not be saved unless 
he was baptized2 and now you say baptism
 is not necessary for the communion4    
,that seems contradictory4 ,i should    
think if baptism is essential to        
salvation it surely would be essential  
to taking the communion4 ,do you think a
 person ought to take the communion who 
has not been converted8  ,of course not4
  ,this is what puzzles me1 said        
,dorothy4 ,you say a person can't be    
converted without baptism4 ,if an       
unbaptized person should come to your   
communion table claiming to be          
converted1 would you not have to deny   
his conversion because he had not been  
baptized8 ,you say you do not require   
baptism before communion1 and yet when  
you require conversion before communion 
you thereby require baptism before      
communion1 because you say there can be 
no conversion without baptism4 ,in other
 words1 you must hold that an unbaptized

 person cannot come to your table4      
,that does look like a clear            
proposition1 daughter1 said ,mr4 ,page4 
,let me ask you this question1 ,mr4     
,garland1 said ,dorothy3 ,why do you    
admit members of other denominations to 
your table8  ,because it is not my      
table1 but the ,lord's table1 and ,i    
have no right to shut any of his people 
out4  ,you think the members of other   
denominations are ,christians1 then1 do 
you8  ,certainly they are2 probably as  
good ,christians as we are4 ,we do not  
set ourselves up as being better than   
others4  ,how can you think they are    
,christians8 ,you do not think with     
their sprinkling and pouring they have  
been scripturally baptized1 do you8     
,no1 ,i do not4  ,how1 then1 can you    
think them converted8 ,i understood you 
to say that none are perfectly converted
 and saved until after baptism1 and you 
say that sprinkling and pouring are not 
,scriptural baptism4 ,therefore you must
 think they are not ,scripturally       

converted and saved4  ,but such people  
think they have been scripturally       
baptized1 and they do what they consider
 right4  ,but do you think it is right8 
,it is right for them4  ,do you think   
anybody will be saved if he will only do
 what he thinks is right for him8       
,suppose a person should come up and say
 that he believed that touching the tip 
of the little finger in the water was   
baptism1 would you say that baptism     
would be all right for him8  ,well1     
hardly1 he said with a laugh4  ,i       
declare1 ,mr4 ,garland1 said ,dorothy1  
you confuse me4 ,i really don't         
understand what you believe4 ,it may be 
my stupidity4 ,i wish ,i did understand4
 ,one thing1 however1 seems clear to me1
 and that is that in the ,bible teaching
 the first thing that comes after       
conversion is baptism4 ,i certainly do  
not think that ,i ought to go to the    
communion table in a church before ,i   
have been baptized4  ,you don't seem to 
be able to accept the views of ,mr4     

,garland's denomination1 said ,sterling4
  ,i want to say1 said ,mr4 ,garland1   
that there are variations within our own
 ranks4 ,in some sections of the country
 our denomination is more radical in its
 views than in other sections4 ,in the  
,east our people are not so pronounced  
as we of the ,west are in regard to the 
relation of baptism to salvation4  ,in  
response to ,sterling's remark to       
,dorothy about her accepting the        
doctrines of the ,disciples1 she        
replied3  ,no1 ,i cannot accept the     
views of ,mr4 ,garland4 ,i am not sure  
that ,i understand clearly what his     
doctrines are1 and yet from what he has 
said about free or open communion and   
baptism ,i must say they do not seem to 
me to be in accordance with the ,bible  
teaching4 ,i am speaking frankly1 ,mr4  
,garland4 ,i have been interested in    
your statement of the doctrines of your 
church1 and ,i thank you for telling me 
about them4  ,i am sorry that you have  
not had an abler champion of our        

doctrines to present them to you1 said  
,garland with a smile4 ,if you can't    
join us you can't join the ,methodists1 
nor the ,presbyterians1 nor the         
,episcopalians4 ,you are therefore shut 
up to the ,baptists4  ,oh1 ,i do not    
think ,i could join them1 either4 ,what 
do you mean1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 exactly by 
their close communion8  ,i mean that    
they think they are better than anybody 
else1 and that nobody but ,baptists have
 any right to partake of the ,lord's    
,supper4 ,they are an ignorant1 bigoted 
set and think that nobody can be saved  
who is not put under the water4  ,well1 
the ,disciples believe that1 don't they1
 ,mr4 ,garland8  ,ah1 but not in the way
 the ,baptists believe it1 spoke up     
,sterling4 ,miss ,dorothy1 there is a   
little ,baptist mission here in the     
eastern part of town4 ,i will take you  
over there that you may take a look at  
their base of operations1 and ,i think a
 sight of it will set at rest any       
further inquiries as to the ,baptists4  

,the members of the little ,baptist     
mission to which ,sterling referred     
worshiped in a plain1 unsightly frame   
chapel4 ,the city had raised the street 
that ran in front of the building so    
that the lot on which the chapel stood  
was left several feet below the level of
 the pavement and could be reached only 
by a rough board stairway from the      
street to the door of the building4     
,here a ,baptist minister had been      
ministering to a small and struggling   
flock in connection with two other      
churches out in the county4 ,the members
 were poor and many of them unlearned1  
and the pastor with such a poor building
 equipment found his task a difficult   
one4  ,daughter1 ,i think you want to   
keep away from that ,baptist crowd1 said
 ,mr4 ,page4 ,they are very small fry   
and ,i would hate to see you tied up    
with such folks4  ,i have no intention  
of joining them1 and yet ,i am much     
bewildered over this matter of church   
membership4 ,what must ,i do8 ,i cannot 

unite with any of these denominations   
that ,i have heard about without doing  
wrong to my conscience4  ,miss ,dorothy1
 you do not have to endorse all the     
beliefs that every member of your church
 holds1 said ,sterling4 ,where will you 
find such a church8 ,each person must   
interpret the ,bible for himself and be 
accountable to ,god only4 ,if a church  
is composed of ,christian people1 why is
 not that the essential thing1 and why  
can you not join with them8 ,you will   
have to live in ,heaven with them1 and  
why can you not live with them here8  ,i
 am living with them here4 ,i mingle    
freely with them1 but when ,christians  
divide themselves up and group          
themselves according to their           
interpretations of ,bible teaching1 then
 ,i must join myself with those who     
interpret the ,bible as ,i do4  ,but    
suppose you cannot find any church group
 or denomination that interprets the    
,bible as you do2 what will you do8 ,you
 have not found such a people yet4      

,suppose you do not find such1 will you 
stay out of all the churches8  ,that is 
a puzzling question4 ,i am not sure just
 now what ,i ought to do if ,i find no  
denomination believing as ,i do4 ,but   
really1 ,i would rather stand alone1    
keeping loyal to my convictions         
regarding the ,bible1 than to compromise
 them in order to join some church4     
,this is all very new to me1 but ,i am  
determined to stand alone rather than go
 against my religious convictions4 ,i   
know that each individual must interpret
 the ,bible as best he can1 and it must 
be his own conclusion1 his own          
conviction1 and ,i certainly shall not  
join a church whose doctrines ,i think  
are contrary to the ,bible4 ,such a     
church is no place for me4 ,i would be  
uncomfortable and ,i would be in        
constant controversy with the members4  
,well1 there is no sin in controversy1  
said ,sterling4 ,our discussions1 ,i    
hope1 have not been very wicked4 ,in    
fact1 such discussions are often the    

best means for bringing people to see   
the truth4 ,why not come into our church
 simply on the ground that we are       
,christians like yourself1 and then try 
to teach the other members the truths   
which you hold and which you think we   
ought to embrace8 ,in other words1 ,i   
should think you would have the best    
reason for coming in among us because we
 need the truth--according to your      
view--and you could come and sow the    
good seed among us4  ,oh1 ,mr4          
,sterling1 what a strange thing you are 
saying4 ,you surely don't mean it4 ,do  
you say that your church will take in   
people no matter what they believe8     
,sterling saw in a flash that in his    
eagerness to save ,dorothy from joining 
some obscure sect he was advocating an  
impossible procedure4  ,dorothy         
continued3 ,your church has its own     
special doctrines1 does it not8  ,it    
does1 said ,sterling1 seeing in advance 
the point to which she was aiming4      
,would your church accept a person who  

should apply for membership who should  
declare he could not accept the         
teachings of your church because he     
thought them unscriptural8  ,i surrender
 on that point1 my fair antagonist1 said
 ,sterling with a smile4 ,but ,i will   
take down the church bars any fine      
morning for you and help you over the   
line into our ranks whenever you decide 
to come4 ,i think ,i could swallow my   
,presbyterian doctrines or lay them on  
the shelf for a few days under those    
conditions1 because ,i think in a short 
while after you had come in and gotten  
well acquainted with our denomination   
you would discover we are not far apart 
after all4  ,oh1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 how can
 you talk in that fashion8 ,i like a    
person who believes something1 and      
though ,i may not agree with him1 ,i can
 respect him for his convictions4       
,that's a straight thrust you are giving
 me1 and ,i guess ,i deserve it1 but it 
was the thought of the fair recruit for 
our ranks that got my logic and my      

,presbyterianism into a mixup4 ,so if ,i
 was guilty of inconsistency ,i must    
blame my accuser4 ,but seriously1 it    
looks as if you are shut up to joining  
the ,baptists4  ,no1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 ,i 
do not have to join any denomination    
unless my convictions lead me to them4  
,but why do you keep mentioning the     
,baptists8 ,are my beliefs nearer to    
theirs than to those of any other       
denomination8  ,oh1 no2 ,i was joking   
that time4 ,you do not believe as they  
do4 ,please consider them out of the    
question4  ,mr4 ,sterling1 you make me  
curious to know what these ,baptists do 
believe4 ,could we not get the pastor to
 explain their doctrines8  ,miss        
,dorothy1 that is not at all necessary1 
with a show of impatience4 ,i can give  
you their views4 ,it is true they       
believe in immersion1 but they have a   
horrible view about it4 ,they believe   
that unless you are dipped you are      
doomed4 ,they think infant baptism was  
born in the lower regions1 and as for   

the communion they are as close as a    
clam1 and in addition to this they have 
achieved brilliant success in the matter
 of ignorance and bigotry4  ,daughter1  
said ,mr4 ,page with much earnestness1  
keep on the other side of the road from 
that gang4 ,there are some things that a
 father knows better than a daughter4   
,father1 you would not object to my     
hearing a ,baptist preacher tell what   
his denomination believes1 would you8   
,it occurred to the father that that    
would be the quickest plan for curing   
,dorothy of any curiosity she might have
 about the ,baptists4 ,he thought that a
 sight of that preacher would show her  
the impossibility of her linking herself
 with his people1 and so he said3  ,yes1
 daughter1 that will be all right4 ,hear
 the preacher4 ,let us all hear him and 
get his side of the question4  ,mr4     
,page1 said ,sterling1 ,i think it would
 be humiliating to you and your family  
to be entering into negotiations with   
that preacher about the views of his    

sect4  ,mercy1 are they so very         
terrible8 asked ,dorothy4  ,they are not
 a wicked people1 so far as ,i know1    
said ,sterling4 ,they are a fairly good 
sort of people probably4 ,in fact1 our  
country is a fruitful soil for all      
manner of sects1 with all sorts of      
peculiar doctrines4  ,are the ,baptists 
a regular denomination like the other   
denominations8  ,in a sense ,i guess    
they are1 and yet they are not in a     
class with the other prominent          
denominations4  ,sterling1 suppose you  
get hold of that ,baptist preacher and  
march him up for our investigation1 said
 ,mr4 ,page4  ,mr4 ,walton was the      
pastor of the little ,baptist church4   
,he was also pastor of two country      
churches1 each of them several miles    
from town1 but as the town was about    
midway between the two points1 ,mr4     
,walton chose the town as his home4  ,he
 was much surprised next morning to     
receive a visit from the rich young     
,presbyterian elder1 and still more     

surprised when ,mr4 ,sterling told him  
the object of his visit4 ,he listened   
with interest as ,mr4 ,sterling told of 
,miss ,page's desire to know the beliefs
 of the different denominations1 and of 
course1 continued ,mr4 ,sterling1 she   
does not wish to leave out any          
denomination4 ,he said this in a tone   
that seemed to hint that1 while the     
,baptists were hardly worth considering1
 yet they called themselves a           
denomination and therefore could not be 
omitted4 ,mr4 ,walton stated that he    
held himself ready always to give a     
reason for the faith that was in him1   
and that if ,miss ,page desired to know 
the doctrines held by his people he     
would cheerfully explain them to her4   
,he was unwilling1 however1 he said1 to 
force his views upon the young lady4 ,it
 was finally agreed that ,mr4 ,walton   
would call at ,mr4 ,sterling's house1   
and that together they would go next    
door to the ,pages'4     ,,chapter ,,xi4
  ,a ,,baptist ,,on ,,the ,,witness     

,,stand4   ,at eight o'clock that       
evening ,mr4 ,sterling and ,rev4 ,mr4   
,walton were ushered into the library of
 the ,page mansion4 ,mr4 ,walton was    
fifty-three years of age1 a man of      
native gifts1 a certain degree of       
culture and also with college and       
seminary training4 ,he could not exactly
 explain it1 but he had not been put    
entirely at his ease by the bearing of  
,mr4 ,sterling on that morning in their 
first conversation4 ,he had determined1 
however1 to make the visit and meet the 
issue as it came4 ,the family soon      
appeared and a battery of curious       
glances were opened upon the preacher in
 his plain but neat garb4 ,mr4 ,page    
thought that ,dorothy's first view of   
the brother would settle the question   
for her4 ,there was a self-containment  
and a lack of self-consciousness on the 
part of the preacher that was not       
unnoticed by ,sterling4 ,soon after the 
arrival of ,mr4 ,walton1 ,rev4 ,mr4     
,garland1 the ,disciple preacher1 also  

appeared4 ,on the previous evening he   
had been invited by ,dorothy to return  
and join the circle on the next evening1
 when ,mr4 ,walton was to tell about his
 denomination4 ,after some preliminary  
chatting the conversation was turned    
into the main channel4  ,mr4 ,walton1   
said ,mr4 ,sterling1 in our discussion  
last evening ,i stated that the         
,baptists believe that immersion is the 
only form of ,scriptural baptism4 ,did  
,i state your position correctly8  ,you 
did1 quietly replied the visitor4  ,i   
also stated that your denomination      
teaches that infant baptism is wrong4   
,is that a fact8  ,it is4  ,next as to  
communion4 ,your denomination believes1 
does it not1 that none but ,baptists    
will be saved and that therefore only   
,baptists can come to the communion     
table8  ,mr4 ,sterling1 ,i am sure you  
do not intend it1 but your statement    
woefully misrepresents my denomination4 
,we hold no such theory4 ,i am aware    
that we are often charged with having a 

lofty opinion of ourselves and a        
contemptuous opinion of other           
denominations4 ,such a statement does us
 great injustice4 ,we do not think      
ourselves better than others2 in fact1  
they may reach higher standards of piety
 than we do4 ,certainly we have no words
 of praise for ourselves4 ,we love all  
our brethren in ,christ and are happy to
 join with them in different forms of   
activity4  ,what about the communion8   
asked ,mr4 ,sterling4 ,are you willing  
to let other denominations commune with 
you8  ,that is a matter they must decide
 for themselves4  ,would you permit a   
member of another denomination to come  
to your communion table8  ,if the person
 considered himself qualified to come ,i
 would not seek to put him out4  ,why1  
that is startling1 ,mr4 ,walton1 said   
,mr4 ,sterling4 ,i understood that      
,baptists thought the other             
denominations were not qualified to come
 to the table4  ,very true1 said ,mr4   
,walton4 ,but you asked me first if ,i  

would permit such a person to come to   
the table1 and ,i said ,i would not seek
 to keep such a person out4 ,we keep no 
policeman to guard the ,lord's table1   
but if you ask me whether ,i think such 
a person is qualified to come and ought 
to come1 that is another question and ,i
 answer1 no4  ,why not8  ,my reason is  
this4 ,the ,bible teaches that all who  
partook of the ,lord's ,supper in the   
days of the apostles first believed in  
,christ and next were baptized upon a   
profession of faith4 ,in other words1   
the ,new ,testament seems to lay down   
these steps--first faith in ,christ1    
next baptism and then the partaking of  
the communion and the other duties of   
the ,christian life4  ,we invite to our 
table all who love the ,lord1 said ,mr4 
,garland4 ,we care not what church a    
person belongs to if only he is a       
consistent church member4  ,would you   
invite me to your table in your church1 
,mr4 ,walton8 asked ,sterling4  ,you    
speak of my inviting you to my table as 

if it were a table in my dining room4   
,but remember1 it is not my table at    
all4 ,it is the ,lord's ,supper spread  
in my church4 ,the members of my church 
anxious to carry out the command of     
,christ that we observe this supper in  
memory of him come together at regular  
intervals for that purpose4 ,i have     
never felt called upon to look out over 
the entire community to decide whom ,i  
would invite to this table4  ,but is it 
not your duty as a ,christian minister  
to invite the people to come8  ,it is my
 duty to explain the nature of the      
supper and also to state the            
qualifications that ought to be         
possessed by those who come to the      
table4 ,i am always willing to try to   
make it plain who ,i think are entitled 
to come to the table1 but ,i hardly     
think ,i am commanded to pick out a list
 of people to be invited to the table4  
,i state the conditions and each one    
must decide whether he ought to come4   
,well1 said ,mr4 ,sterling1 ,i will put 

my question in another form4 ,do you    
think ,i am entitled to come to the     
,lord's table in your church and        
commune8  ,in reply ,i would say that1  
while ,i have respect for your          
,christian profession1 yet ,i think you 
are not entitled to come to the         
communion because ,i do not think you   
have been baptized4  ,yes1 ,i know you  
think that1 but why do you not leave the
 communion matter to me8 ,if it is the  
,lord's table1 and if ,i am satisfied   
with my baptism and am baptized in the  
manner in which the ,bible seems to me  
to teach1 why should ,i not commune8    
,that is for you to decide1 ,mr4        
,sterling1 but ,i think you have left   
out one of the steps that1 according to 
the ,bible1 ought to precede the supper1
 and that is baptism4 ,i am bound to    
think you have left out that step1 and  
therefore ,i think the thing for you to 
be interested in is not the taking of   
the communion1 but the being properly   
baptized4 ,for me to invite you to the  

table would be wrong4 ,if ,i felt called
 on to invite you to anything it would  
be to the proper ,scriptural baptism4   
,if you come to my table ,i will not put
 you out4 ,you are responsible for your 
actions1 but if my opinion is asked     
about your action ,i can only say ,i    
think you would be communing without    
having taken the previous step of       
baptism which the ,bible requires4  ,but
 according to my best judgment1 ,i have 
taken the step of baptism4 ,i have      
chosen the form of baptism which ,i     
believe the ,bible teaches4 ,would you  
ask more of me than that8  ,i endorse   
your sincerity1 ,mr4 ,sterling1 but you 
surely would not expect me to say ,i    
believe that you have followed the      
,scriptural baptism4 ,i am bound to     
believe that you have not met the       
,scriptural requirements for coming to  
the table4 ,i do not try to force my    
opinion on you4 ,i simply have my       
opinion1 which of course ,i am ready at 
any proper time to state4 ,people who   

have not been immersed know that we have
 this opinion regarding their baptism1  
and they seem to take offense because we
 hold such a view regarding their       
baptism4 ,because we think they have    
omitted one of the preliminary steps to 
the table they call us close in our     
communion4  ,it looks as if you are     
close in your baptism rather than in    
your communion1 said ,dorothy4 ,and is  
that what is meant by the close         
communion of the ,baptists8  ,i do not  
know what our critics always mean when  
they speak of our close communion1 said 
,mr4 ,walton1 but that is our position4 
,i know that here and there in our own  
denomination there are those who are    
open in their communion--that is1 they  
will invite ,christians of all          
denominations4  ,what1 whether they have
 been immersed or not8 asked ,dorothy4  
,yes4  ,oh1 ,i can't see any consistency
 in that4 ,if ,i were a ,baptist ,i     
would certainly be a close communion    
,baptist in the sense that ,mr4 ,walton 

has explained it2 that is1 ,i think that
 people ought to be ,scripturally       
baptized before coming to the communion 
table1 and ,i certainly don't see       
anything so terrible in holding such an 
opinion4  ,it is a very ugly doctrine in
 the eyes of many1 said ,mr4 ,walton1   
but ,i take this view of it4 ,if the    
,bible had given us the two ordinances1 
baptism and communion1 and had said     
nothing at all about the order in which 
they were to be observed and we were    
left free to choose their order1 then we
 would not be able to speak so          
positively2 but when we find in the     
,bible that baptism is always put       
immediately after believing1 and that   
the ,lord's ,supper is never put in this
 order1 then ,i think it is clear that  
baptism is expected always to come      
first4 ,and if it came first in ,bible  
times1 why should anyone now wish to    
reverse the order8  ,let me ask you a   
question1 said ,sterling4 ,you say a    
person ought to be immersed before      

coming to the table4 ,suppose a person  
has believed in ,christ and been        
immersed and joins a ,methodist church4 
,you would then have a ,scripturally    
baptized ,christian4 ,would you permit  
such a person to commune with you8  ,you
 speak of my permitting such a person to
 commune with me4 ,in the first place1  
,i doubt whether such a person would    
want to commune with me4 ,i never find  
such people coming to our church asking 
to commune with us4 ,we do not have     
guards before our table4 ,we simply have
 our views as to those who are properly 
qualified and the people know it4       
,would you think that this immersed     
,methodist ought to commune with you8   
,why do you say 'commune with me'8  ,i  
will change the question1 then4 ,do you 
think that an immersed ,methodist ought 
to partake of the communion anywhere8   
,i think not1 as long as he occupies    
that position4 ,but of course he can    
follow his own convictions4 ,if1        
however1 he should ask my opinion1 ,i   

would tell him ,i think he is living in 
disorderly fashion4 ,he believes that   
immersion only is the ,scriptural       
baptism1 otherwise he would not have    
sought immersion when the prevailing    
mode in the ,methodist church is        
sprinkling4 ,believing thus about       
baptism he yet throws his membership    
with a church that seeks to put another 
form of baptism in the place of the     
,scriptural baptism4 ,i think that is   
wrong4 ,he is a ,baptist by conviction1 
and yet for social or other reasons he  
joins a church of a different faith4    
,why does he not join the church of his 
own faith8 ,besides1 in joining that    
church he is linking himself with an    
organization that teaches and practices 
not only sprinkling in the place of     
immersion1 but also infant baptism4 ,i  
would have to say to such a person1 if  
he should ask my opinion1 ',sir1 ,i     
think your first duty is not to go to   
the communion1 but to get the matter of 
your church relationship straightened   

out'4  ,but suppose he should say he    
believed in infant baptism and therefore
 could not join the ,baptist church8    
,suppose he should say he believed in   
all the other doctrines of the          
,methodist church except their view of  
sprinkling1 and that even on the point  
of baptism the ,methodists believed in  
immersion as one form of baptism1 else  
they would not have immersed him4 ,what 
would you say to him then8 ,there you   
would have a person ,scripturally       
baptized and joining the church that    
came nearest to his convictions1 and now
 do you say that such a person ought to 
keep away from the communion8  ,mr4     
,sterling1 ,i think that is an          
impossible case4 ,in the first place1   
how could that person believe in infant 
baptism if he believed in immersion8    
,infant baptism is only by sprinkling4  
,could that person endorse the          
sprinkling of infants8 ,i doubt whether 
you will find a person believing that   
only immersion is baptism and yet       

believing that infant baptism is        
,scriptural4 ,but granting this1 you ask
 if that person ought to keep away from 
the table4 ,i answer that if that person
 thinks his position is correct1 and he 
desires to commune1 let him take the    
responsibility4 ,i think he is violating
 the ,scripture4 ,i do not believe the  
apostles would have advised such a      
person going to the communion4 ,i think 
they would have instructed him on the   
subject of infant baptism and any other 
important ,bible doctrines that the     
person was neglecting1 and they would   
have sought to set him right on these   
things before advising him to go to the 
communion1 and if he had refused to     
follow the ,scripture1 even though he   
was sincere in his action1 ,i do not    
believe the apostles would have         
countenanced his partaking of the       
communion4 ,that is simply my view of   
it4 ,the responsibility rests with him1 
and he must follow his conscience2 only 
let him be sure that he studied the     

,bible teaching on the point as         
thoroughly as possible4 ,i certainly    
would not invite such a person to our   
table1 because if such a person were a  
member of my church and should accept   
and practice the infant baptism and give
 his influence to propagating that and  
the other doctrines of the ,methodists1 
he would have to be excluded from our   
membership2 and if such a person would  
have to be excluded from our membership 
he surely could not be invited to our   
communion table4 ,there would be no     
consistency in that4  ,that seems plain1
 said ,mr4 ,page1 who had been a silent1
 interested listener4  ,this is what we 
believe on the subject1 but1 as ,i said 
a moment ago1 we do not force our views 
on others4 ,they are generally brought  
up against us4 ,they attack us about our
 close communion and thus compel us to  
state our views as to the communion4    
,people know that we have positive      
convictions about the relation between  
baptism and the ,lord's ,supper1 and yet

 they seem horrified if we stand by     
these convictions and follow them to    
their logical conclusion4  ,well1 well1 
said ,dorothy1 ,i think this abuse of   
the ,baptists is much ado about nothing4
 ,i do not see how the ,baptists could  
occupy any other position than they do  
about the communion as long as they     
believe as they do about baptism4  ,mr4 
,walton1 what about myself8 asked ,mr4  
,garland4 ,would you permit me to       
commune at your table8  ,permit you8    
,mr4 ,garland1 ,i have stated that we do
 not turn anybody away4  ,exactly4 ,but 
you make it plain whom you want and it  
amounts to a prohibition4 ,nobody wants 
to go where he is not wanted4 ,but tell 
me1 do you think ,i have taken the      
necessary steps before communion8 ,i    
have accepted ,christ as my ,savior1 ,i 
have been immersed and am a member of a 
church that believes in immersion as the
 only baptism and that does not believe 
in infant baptism4 ,these are the same  
doctrines as those held by the          

,baptists4 ,would you therefore say that
 ,i am qualified to come to the table8  
,i have always understood1 ,mr4         
,garland1 that your view of baptism was 
not the same as ours2 that you regard   
baptism as a necessary part of          
conversion1 and in that respect we think
 you have made a mistake regarding      
baptism4 ,scriptural baptism is one of  
the steps laid down to be taken before  
the communion1 and consequently ,i think
 you have not taken that particular     
step4 ,those who partook of the         
communion in ,christ's day were baptized
 because they had believed and were     
already saved1 but you have been        
baptized in order to be saved4 ,yours is
 a different kind of baptism from the   
,bible baptism4  ,i thought immersion   
constituted baptism8  ,ah1 that is a    
mistake very frequently made4 ,there is 
something else in baptism besides the   
form4 ,there must be the right motive as
 well as the right mode4 ,i think that  
when you go down into the water1 not    

that you may typify your death to your  
old life and your rising to a new       
life--a change that has already taken   
place within you--but in order that in  
some way your baptism may complete your 
salvation1 you rob baptism of its chief 
glory4 ,it is not the same baptism that 
,christ commanded4 ,he did not go down  
into the water in order to be saved nor 
in order that it might work any change  
in him1 but simply to show forth certain
 truths and to fulfill all              
righteousness4  ,i don't believe you    
have answered my question1 said ,mr4    
,garland4 ,do you think ,i am entitled  
to partake of the communion8  ,i am not 
your judge1 but if you ask my opinion ,i
 am bound to say that ,i do not think   
your baptism was after the ,scriptural  
order--that is1 if in your baptism you  
regarded it as completing your          
salvation4  ,but do you think ,i have a 
right to commune8  ,you must follow your
 conscience on that point4  ,would you  
yourself commune with the ,disciples1   

,mr4 ,walton8 asked ,sterling4  ,why ask
 such a question1 ,mr4 ,sterling8 ,why  
should ,i go to their church to commune 
with them8 ,i have my own church in     
which to commune4  ,i know1 but suppose 
that while visiting in a community you  
attended service at a ,disciple church1 
and they had the communion and the      
elements were passed around4 ,would you 
partake of the supper there8  ,i have   
never been placed in such a position4   
,what would you do1 ,mr4 ,walton8       
,there are many who claim that my       
communing with you would endorse not    
only your act in communing1 but also    
your baptism as you teach and practice  
it4 ,if my act would be a practical     
endorsement of your communion and your  
baptism1 then ,i certainly ought not and
 would not join with you4  ,i think you 
would endorse them1 said ,dorothy1 if   
you should sit with them and commune    
with them4  ,i think not1 said ,mr4     
,garland4 ,each one would be acting for 
himself and your act would not be       

misunderstood4  ,why should he commune  
with them8 asked ,dorothy4 ,must not a  
person always have a reason for         
communing8 ,must he commune every time  
he may see the table spread before him  
in any church8 ,if ,mr4 ,walton should  
retire from the communion in the        
,disciple church1 or simply should not  
take the supper1 the people would       
understand that he differed from them as
 to the ,scriptural steps required      
before communion1 and it is a person's  
duty to let his beliefs about ,bible    
teaching be known4  ,no1 the people     
generally would not understand ,mr4     
,walton's act in that way1 said         
,sterling1 but would simply think ,mr4  
,walton thought himself too good to     
commune with them1 and this would have a
 bad effect1 and this is the harm of    
close communion4 ,none of us are        
perfect1 ,mr4 ,walton4 ,we              
,presbyterians may fall short in some   
particulars2 the ,baptists also may not 
hit the mark at every point4 ,why not   

recognize this1 and with charity for    
each other come together around the     
table of the ,lord and avoid making such
 unbrotherly distinctions8  ,mr4        
,sterling1 said ,dorothy1 that does not 
appeal to me at all4 ,if a thing is     
right it is right1 and ,i do not believe
 we will gain anything by putting that  
aside just to come together4 ,if ,i     
believe that the ,disciples' baptism is 
not the ,bible baptism ,i do not know of
 any better way ,i could say that to    
them than by not joining with them in   
their communion4 ,i should think that   
such loyalty to conviction would do no  
harm and ofttimes might do good4  ,is it
 not a fact1 ,mr4 ,garland1 that the    
different denominations very rarely     
commune with each other8 asked ,mr4     
,walton4  ,you are correct1 said ,mr4   
,garland4 ,although we practice open    
communion1 it is the rarest thing in the
 world for a member of another          
denomination to commune with us or for  
any of our members to commune in the    

church of any other denomination4  ,i   
can respect a person who differs from   
me1 said ,dorothy1 but a person who     
seems to be so anxious to appear on good
 terms with me as to be willing to      
smooth over or minimize his             
convictions--oh1 ,i want none of that4  
,if we differ in our views and think the
 other is not keeping the ,scripture    
requirement1 then let us differ and not 
pretend that we are together or that our
 differences do not amount to anything4 
,i think that their doctrine of close   
communion has greatly hurt the ,baptists
 and kept from them many who would      
otherwise have joined them1 said ,mr4   
,garland4  ,i must differ with you1 said
 ,mr4 ,walton4 ,if the ,baptists abandon
 their position on the communion        
question they could not hold their      
position on immersion4 ,you know that in
 ,england1 where the ,baptists are not  
gaining1 many of the open communion     
,baptist churches also have open church 
membership1 thus admitting people to the

 church who have not been immersed4 ,do 
you know why the ,baptists of the ,south
 have grown so much more rapidly than   
the ,baptists in all other parts of the 
world8  ,no1 ,i do not1 answered ,mr4   
,garland4  ,it is because they are      
strict in their views and stand loyally 
by their denominational convictions4    
,what is another doctrine of your       
denomination1 ,mr4 ,walton8 asked       
,dorothy4  ,another doctrine is the     
'independence of the local church'4     
,independent of what8 asked ,dorothy4   
,i mean that no pope1 priest1 presbytery
 nor bishop1 nor any ecclesiastical     
power has any authority over any local  
church1 but that the church in the      
conduct of its affairs is entirely      
independent4  ,that sounds like pretty  
good democracy1 said ,mr4 ,page4  ,it is
 democracy1 pure and simple1 said ,mr4  
,walton4 ,the ,baptist doctrine is that 
every individual has equal religious    
rights with every other individual1 that
 all members are on a level1 that the   

local members are capable of managing   
their own affairs4 ,and1 by the way1    
,mr4 ,page1 did you know that ,thomas   
,jefferson1 who wrote the ,declaration  
of ,independence1 got his ideas of      
democracy largely from a little ,baptist
 church8  ,what is that8 asked ,mr4     
,page1 leaning forward in his chair4    
,you say that a ,baptist church gave to 
,mr4 ,jefferson his ideas of democracy8 
,if you will prove that1 ,mr4 ,walton1  
you will be giving us the livest bit of 
sensation that ,i have gotten hold of   
for many a day4  ,i have the newspaper  
here in my pocket that proves what ,i   
say4 ,the writer is ,rev4 ,dr4          
,fishback1 of ,lexington1 ,ky41 and he  
writes for the ,christian ,watchman1 and
 he tells of a conversation he had with 
,elder ,andrew ,tribble1 who was a      
,baptist preacher and whose church was  
near the residence of ,thomas           
,jefferson1 and it was this ,baptist    
church of ,mr4 ,tribble that gave to    
,mr4 ,jefferson his ideas of democracy4 

,do you have in that paper a letter from
 ,mr4 ,tribble about it8 asked ,mr4     
,page4  ,no1 but ,i have a letter from  
,mr4 ,fishback telling of the           
conversation he himself had with this   
,mr4 ,tribble about the matter4  ,all   
right1 let us have it4  ,mr4 ,walton    
opened the paper 7,the ,christian       
,watchman1 a paper that bore the marks  
of age7 and said3 ,here is ,dr4         
,fishback's letter3  ',mr4 ,editor3 ,the
 following circumstances1 which occurred
 in the state of ,virginia relative to  
,mr4 ,jefferson1 was detailed to me by  
,elder ,andrew ,tribble about six years 
ago1 who since died about ninety-two or 
ninety-three years old4 ,the facts may  
interest some of your readers4  ',andrew
 ,tribble was the parson of a small     
,baptist church which held monthly      
meetings at a short distance from the   
,jefferson home nine or ten years before
 the ,american revolution4 ,mr4         
,jefferson attended the meetings of the 
church several months in succession1 and

 after one of them asked ,elder ,tribble
 to go home and dine with him1 with     
which he complied4 ,mr4 ,tribble asked  
,mr4 ,jefferson how he was pleased with 
their church government4 ,mr4 ,jefferson
 replied that it had struck him with    
great force and had interested him much1
 that he considered it the only form of 
pure democracy that then existed in the 
world1 and had concluded that it would  
be the best plan of government for the  
,american colonies4 ,this was several   
years before the ,declaration of        
,independence4'  ,well1 well1 exclaimed 
,mr4 ,page1 that is mighty interesting4 
,that surely is a big tribute to the    
,baptists1 and that does seem the       
natural form of government for a church4
  ,but does the ,bible say that a church
 ought to be governed that way8 asked   
,dorothy4  ,i think the ,presbyterian   
form of government is taught in the     
,scriptures1 said ,mr4 ,sterling2 in    
other words1 that a church ought to be  
governed by a body known as the         

presbytery4  ,that means that a larger  
body should be governed by a smaller    
body1 does it not8 asked ,mr4 ,page4    
,yes1 answered ,mr4 ,walton4  ,that may 
be ,scripture1 said ,mr4 ,page1 but ,i  
don't like it4  ,i think it is wise as  
well as ,scriptural1 said ,sterling4    
,you know that today in all great bodies
 it is a few leaders that do the        
thinking and planning and directing4    
,even in the ,baptist church1 that      
claims to be a democracy1 ,i'll venture 
that a few men in each church hold the  
reins4 ,how much better to have a body  
of wise men to whom all important       
questions shall be submitted and who    
shall have general oversight over and   
direction of the affairs of the church4 
,i must differ with ,mr4 ,sterling as to
 the ,scriptural plan of church         
government1 said ,mr4 ,walton4 ,i think 
the ,bible clearly teaches that each    
local church in the days of the apostles
 managed its own affairs4 ,where have   
you any record in the ,bible1 ,mr4      

,sterling1 of any presbytery or smaller 
body of men controlling the affairs of  
any local church8  ,i can cite you a    
case4  ,good1 said ,mr4 ,page4 ,let us  
have it4  ,the council at ,jerusalem    
drew up a list of requirements that were
 to be binding on the churches4 ,that   
looks very much like a body of men      
legislating for local churches4  ,of    
course the apostles in their day gave   
direction for the churches1 said ,mr4   
,walton4 ,they were inspired to give    
directions to the churches4 ,in fact1   
they were the founders of the churches4 
,christ gave through them the rules for 
the churches not only of that day1 but  
of all succeeding days4  ,it looks as if
 the apostles directed the churches1 and
 why do you say the churches managed    
their own affairs8 asked ,sterling4     
,no1 ,i do not think the apostles       
managed the churches4 ,the apostles at  
the first had to give rules for the     
founding and starting of the churches1  
but even in the first days the apostles 

threw upon the churches the             
responsibilities of their own           
government4 ,you remember that when an  
apostle was to be chosen to take the    
place of ,judas he was not chosen by the
 other apostles1 but by all the         
disciples just as if they were all1     
disciples and apostles1 on a level when 
it came to voting for anything4 ,they   
cast lots1 and ,i have seen it stated   
that this casting of lots was simply a  
voting by ballot1 and that is the       
democratic1 ,baptist way4 ,you remember 
that ,christ said that a person having a
 grievance against another person must1 
as a final step1 tell it to the church1 
and if the offender would not hear the  
church then he must be as a heathen and 
a publican4 ,there you see the ultimate 
authority was lodged in the church to   
deal with the offender and not in some  
presbytery or in some ecclesiastical    
council4 ,how were the deacons elected8 
,they were told to look out seven men of
 good report4 ,this was said to the     

multitude of disciples1 and this        
multitude was to look out from among    
them the seven men who should be        
appointed for the purpose4 ,notice it   
was not the apostles that picked out the
 men1 but they made the selection the   
work of the people4 ,in fact1 in every  
church mentioned in the ,new ,testament 
it is plain that there was no           
ecclesiastical interference in the      
affairs of the church4 ,even ,paul1 the 
founder of the churches1 in his letters1
 throws upon the churches the           
responsibility of dealing with their    
problems4 ,in the case of the incestuous
 man he said 'when your church is come  
together' cast out this man2 that is1   
'get your church together and let them  
act on it'4  ,i think you make out a    
good case1 ,mr4 ,walton1 and this       
principle of democracy is the best thing
 about the ,baptists that ,i have yet   
heard1 said ,mr4 ,page4  ,there are     
other interesting facts about the       
,baptists1 said ,mr4 ,walton1 but ,i    

find ,i must leave at this point4 ,if   
you should care to learn more about our 
denomination ,i should be glad some time
 to give you further information4       
,can't you come again tomorrow night8   
asked ,dorothy in an eager manner4  ,an 
engagement will prevent this1 but ,i    
could come on some other night4  ,it was
 so agreed1 though the ,pages did not   
suspect the surprises that were in store
 for them4     ,,chapter ,,xii4         
,,discovery4   ,after the party broke up
 after their last discussion ,mr4 ,page 
complimented the ,baptists on their     
democratic principles of church         
government4 ,but1 daughter1 he said1 it 
will be impossible for you to mingle    
with that class of people4 ,i am glad   
for you to know about the different     
denominations1 but joining one of them  
is a horse of a very different color1   
and ,i am sure you could never be happy 
tied up with these ,baptist people4     
,they may be good folks1 but they are   
evidently a poor and obscure folk4 ,i   

guess they have sprung up mostly in     
country districts4 ,i remember in the   
valley of ,virginia where ,i was reared 
there was a little ,baptist church in   
the country five or six miles from us4  
,the ,presbyterian church1 ,i think1 was
 the strongest and the ,baptists cut    
very little figure in that section1     
though ,i confess ,i did not pay much   
attention to any of them4  ,a large part
 of the day was spent by ,dorothy at the
 public library ransacking the          
encyclopedias searching for something   
about the ,baptists4 ,to her surprise   
she found a great deal4 ,she was amazed 
as she read of the part that the        
,baptists had played in history4        
,knowing that the people at her home    
would be interested1 she made copious   
notes during her reading4  ,she hurried 
through her lunch that day and informed 
her mother that she was getting some    
very important information about the    
,baptists1 and that by dinner time she  
hoped to have it in shape to lay it     

before the family4  ,the mother thought 
that of course she was unearthing       
unfavorable information about the       
,baptists that would show ,dorothy that 
she could never identify herself with   
them4  ,that evening ,mr4 ,page1 when he
 reached home1 was greeted with the     
words from ,dorothy3 ,oh1 father1 ,i    
have made a discovery6  ,is it a gold   
mine under the front porch8  ,it is a   
discovery about these ,baptist people4  
,but wait until ,mr4 ,walton and ,mr4   
,sterling come and ,i will tell you4    
,soon after dinner the two visitors were
 gathered in the parlor and ready4      
,dorothy announces a big discovery1 said
 ,mr4 ,page4 ,let us have it1 daughter4 
,i don't know that any others will be   
interested in it1 but it greatly        
surprised and interested me4 ,i have    
learned that these ,baptists have had a 
remarkable history4  ,remarkable for    
what1 daughter8 ,for obscurity8  ,no4   
,they have played an illustrious part in
 this world's history4  ,the father's   

face darkened4 ,the thought of his      
daughter falling in love with the       
,baptists struck him in an unpleasant   
point of his anatomy4 ,the little       
,baptist chapel with its plain-looking  
people and pastor put the denomination  
in a sorry light before the public4     
,father1 ,i have been in the library    
hunting for facts about the ,baptists4  
,i have read their doctrines and they   
surely seem to believe exactly what the 
,bible teaches1 and their history is a  
noble and inspiring one4  ,what did you 
find out about these ,baptists8 ,where  
did they come from8  ,that is the       
interesting part4 ,do you know they are 
next to the largest denomination in the 
world except the ,catholics8  ,what is  
that1 daughter8 ,you evidently got into 
some fairy tales in the library4 ,why1  
the ,methodists are as large as all the 
other denominations put together1 and as
 for the ,baptists1 they are but a drop 
in the bucket4 ,look at them in this    
town1 and ,i guess the bunch here is a  

pretty good sample of them everywhere4  
,oh1 father1 either those books in the  
library are wrong or else you and lots  
of other folks are terribly mistaken4   
,the ,baptists and the ,methodists are  
the two largest denominations in the    
world1 except the ,catholics4  ,the     
father wore an incredulous and          
bewildered look4  ,there may possibly be
 a lot of ,baptists scattered over the  
earth1 admitted ,sterling1 but you must 
have quality as well as quantity1 and   
quality is what the ,baptists have not4 
,you are prodigiously mistaken1 replied 
,dorothy in a vehement manner4 ,i could 
hardly believe it myself as ,i read it2 
but it is a fact that the ,baptists hold
 a high place in history4 ,one writer   
says that the ,baptists are in the front
 ranks in the matter of education4 ,two 
writers say that the great ,foreign     
,mission movement of the present and the
 past century was started by the        
,baptists of ,england4 ,another book    
says they have led in founding and      

perfecting ,sunday schools4  ,england8  
said the father4 ,i didn't know that any
 ,baptists had ever found their way     
across the seas to ,england4  ,why1     
father1 ,england owes much of her       
present greatness to the ,baptists4 ,in 
the ,puritan movement that saved        
,england from ,catholicism and kept her 
,protestant the ,baptists are said to   
have played a large part4  ,when did    
they come into existence8  ,they claim  
that they have always been in existence 
since the days of the apostles4  ,well1 
well1 that is a clincher sure4  ,father1
 it does look as if the truths which the
 ,baptists hold are the truths which    
,christ taught and which the first      
,christians practiced2 and if so1 then  
the first churches were in that sense   
,baptist churches4  ,all of the other   
churches knocked out at the first blow1 
said the father with a laugh1 and       
,christianity starting off with only    
,baptist churches4  ,this history which 
,i read also said that all through the  

centuries since ,christ there seem to   
have been bands of ,christian people    
believing substantially what the        
,baptists of today believe4 ,this was   
not proved with absolute certainty1 but 
all the evidence points that way4 ,the  
great ,roman church came into power and 
ruled the religious world1 but there    
were always bands of ,christians        
protesting against ,catholicism and     
standing up for those truths and        
practices which they believed the ,bible
 taught4 ,baptist historians say that   
these persecuted churches held very     
largely what the ,baptists of today     
believe4  ,exactly1 said ,sterling4 ,you
 say that the ,baptist historians claim 
that these ,christian sects who in every
 century protested against ,catholicism 
and stood up for ,christianity were     
,baptists4 ,of course ,baptist          
historians claim that these ,christians 
were ,baptists4 ,suppose1 however1 you  
had read ,presbyterian histories2 who   
knows but that you would have read that 

there were in every century             
,presbyterian churches8  ,but how could 
this be8 ,i read in two or three places 
that the ,presbyterians1 ,methodists1   
,episcopalians and many of the other    
denominations were the fruit of the     
,reformation1 and came after the        
sixteenth century4  ,daughter1 you seem 
to have these histories at your finger  
ends4  ,i do not know very much about   
them1 but ,i have read everything in the
 library that would throw light upon the
 matters that we have been discussing1  
and ,i have made full notes from my     
reading4  ,your statements sound        
strange1 ,miss ,dorothy1 said ,mr4      
,sterling1 for the ,baptists evidently  
were one of those numerous sects that   
sprang out of and were a part of the    
,protestant ,reformation4  ,two or three
 of the books that ,i examined said that
 the ,baptists existed before the       
,reformation and helped to bring about  
the ,reformation1 and that they did much
 to shape the ,reformation both in      

,holland and in ,england and in other   
places4  ,miss ,dorothy1 said ,mr4      
,sterling1 the idea seems preposterous  
to me that the ,baptists existed before 
the ,reformation4  ,here is a statement 
that ,i read in ',mosheim's ,history of 
,antiquity'1 in which he says 'the      
origin of the ,baptists is lost in the  
depths of antiquity'4  ,does ,mosheim   
say that8 asked ,mr4 ,sterling4 ,why1 he
 was a noted writer4  ,i found that     
three or four hundred years ago the     
,baptists were called ,anabaptists1 and 
that they gradually dropped the first   
part of their name4  ,what does the word
 ,anabaptist mean8  ,it means a         
rebaptizer4 ,it seems that they insisted
 when a person who had been baptized in 
infancy was converted in later life that
 he should be baptized on profession of 
faith4 ,they claimed that his infant    
baptism was not ,bible baptism1 and so  
the people called them rebaptizers or   
,anabaptists4 ,and here is one statement
 that ,i read3 ',it is said that two of 

the presidents of ,harvard ,college were
 ,anabaptists'4  ,what is that6         
exclaimed the father1 almost bouncing   
out of his chair4 ,two of ,harvard's    
presidents ,baptists8 ,where did you    
find that statement8  ,on page #cch of  
,gregory's ',puritanism in the ,old     
,world and the ,new'4  ,and you say the 
,baptists and the ,anabaptists are the  
same8  ,yes1 indeed4 ,i find that the   
names are used interchangeably in the   
histories1 and gradually the shorter    
name took the place of the longer4  ,two
 presidents of ,harvard8 ,well6 ,well6  
,if that ,gregory knows what he is      
talking about1 then that is a stunner4  
,i would never have thought it4 ,but go 
ahead and give us some more4  ,here is  
something about the ,baptist soldiers in
 ,oliver ,cromwell's army3 ',the men who
 made up the new army of ,ironsides1    
which won the victories of ,naseby and  
,dunbar1 the men who smiled only as they
 went into battle and never counted the 
odds against them1 were not             

,presbyterians1 99 99 99 99 they were   
,independents1 the ,baptists forming the
 largest element1 men who believed in   
self-government in the church as well as
 in the state'4  ,where do you find     
that8 asked ,sterling with an interested
 expression4  ,it is on pages #cid and  
#cie of ,campbell's ',the ,puritan in   
,his ,three ,homes1 ,holland1 ,england  
and ,america'4 ,and listen to this from 
the same author3 ',thus it came about   
that the persecuted ,anabaptists of     
,holland1 taking their doctrines from   
the early ,christians1 gave birth to the
 powerful denomination of ,baptists1    
which has played so important a part in 
the history of ,england and ,america'4  
,miss ,dorothy1 you amaze me1 said      
,sterling4  ,i learn from my reading    
that the religious liberty which the    
,christian world is enjoying today is   
largely due to the ,baptists4  ,julius  
,caesar6 exclaimed the father4 ,what do 
you think of that1 ,sterling8  ,do you  
mean to say1 ,miss ,dorothy1 asked      

,sterling1 that you found in your       
reading that the great blessings of     
religious liberty that are enjoyed in   
this country1 and to a certain extent in
 ,europe1 are due to the ,baptist       
denomination8  ,i find that fact        
positively stated in many places4 ,here 
is something from the same book of      
,campbell1 ',the ,puritan in ,his ,three
 ,homes1 ,holland1 ,england and         
,america'1 which ,i mentioned just now4 
,it is on pages #bjb and #bjc3 ',but no 
words of praise can be too strong for   
the services which the ,english         
,baptists rendered to the cause of      
religious liberty4 ,they went down with 
,cromwell and suffered a relentless     
persecution after the restoration of the
 ,stuarts1 but they have never lost     
their influence as a leaven in the land4
 ,in purity of life and substantial     
,christian work they have been surpassed
 by the members of no other religious   
body4 ,having been the first ,british   
denomination of ,christians to proclaim 

the principle of religious liberty1 they
 were also the first to send out        
missionaries to the heathen4'  ,just    
listen to that6 exclaimed ,mr4 ,page4   
,dorothy continued3 ',in fact1 if the   
,anabaptists had done nothing more for  
the world than to beget such offspring  
they would have repaid a thousand-fold  
the care shown for their liberties by   
the ,prince of ,orange in his contest   
with some of the narrow-minded          
,calvinists among his associates4'      
,hold on there1 you take my breath away1
 said the father4  ,please note what    
that says1 remarked ,mr4 ,walton4 ,those
 words call attention to the purity and 
high ,christian character of the        
,baptists1 and to the fact that they    
were the first in these centuries to    
send out missionaries to the heathen4   
,it is a fact that the great ,foreign   
,mission movement now encircling the    
world was first started by the ,baptists
 a little over a hundred years ago under
 the lead of ,william ,carey1 a         

,baptist4 ,notice it gives to the       
,baptists the honor of being the author 
of religious liberty for the world4     
,but who is that ,campbell8 asked       
,sterling4  ,his book is one of the     
great books of the day4  ,of course1    
said ,sterling with a smile4  ,dorothy  
read on4 ,here is another statement from
 ,gregory4 ,he is writing concerning the
 ,anabaptists3 ',the history of that    
remarkable people is yet to be written1 
and when it shall have been written an  
heroic chapter shall have been added to 
the history of the world4 ,the ,dutch   
,anabaptists were ,puritans before      
,puritanism had sprung into recognized  
existence and held all that ,puritanism 
afterwards contended for4'  ,think of   
that1 said ,mr4 ,walton4 ,we all know   
one of the greatest religious movements 
of the past was ,puritanism4 ,it saved  
,england from the blight of ,catholicism
 and made and kept her ,protestant4 ,but
 there were two wings of the ,puritan   
movement2 one wing stayed in the        

,english church and sought to work      
reforms within the church1 and the other
 wing fought the battle on the outside  
of that church1 and of this party the   
,baptists were the foremost fighters4   
,they sounded clear and strong the      
demand for absolute religious liberty4  
,here is something from ,masson's ,life 
of ,milton1 said ,dorothy4  ,let us have
 it1 said ,sterling4 ,that is a standard
 book4  ,on page #ij1 ,vol4 ,,iii41 find
 this3 ',not to the ,church of ,england1
 however1 nor to ,scotch                
,presbyterianism1 nor to ,english       
,puritanism at large does the honor of  
the first perception of the full liberty
 of conscience and its first assertion  
in ,english speech belong4 ,that honor  
has to be assigned1 ,i believe1 to the  
,independents in general and to the     
,baptists in particular4'  ,well1 well1 
said ,mr4 ,page4 ,sterling1 this        
daughter of mine has indeed made a      
discovery4 ,i think it is an eye-opener 
for both of us4 ,but go ahead1 daughter4

 ,you seem to have yet other surprises  
up your sleeve4  ,here is something very
 interesting4  ,and where does it come  
from this time8 asked the father4  ,it  
is also from ,masson's ,life of ,milton1
 and it is on page #aja1 ,vol4 ,,iii43  
',in a confession of faith or           
declaration of faith1 put forth in #afaa
 by the ,english ,baptists of           
,amsterdam1 just after the death of     
,smith1 this article occurs3 ,the       
magistrate is not to meddle with        
religion or matters of conscience1 nor  
compel men to this or that form of      
religion2 because ,christ is the ,king  
and the ,lawgiver of the church and     
conscience4 ,it is believed1' continues 
,masson1 'that this is the first        
expression of the absolute principle of 
liberty of conscience in the published  
articles of any body of ,christians'4   
,just think of that publication by the  
little ,baptist church in ,amsterdam1   
said ,mr4 ,walton4 ,consider the        
circumstances4 ,the religious world was 

at that time under the domination of the
 ,catholic hierarchy4 ,the church and   
the government locked arms in absolute  
control of men's forms of worship as    
well as of every phase of human action4 
,the king and pope prescribed the       
prayers1 the ,scripture readings and the
 forms of worship of every citizen2 and 
in the face of it all this little band  
drew up its declaration of faith to the 
effect that the government had no right 
to meddle with a man's religion nor to  
compel men to any form of worship       
because ,christ was the ,king and       
,lawgiver4 ,think of the boldness of    
such an announcement4 ,it was an        
ultimatum hurled by that little flock at
 the king1 the pope and the civil       
government and the hierarchy4  ,that    
explains all the horrible persecutions  
of the ,baptists in ,holland that ,i    
read about this morning1' said ,dorothy4
  ,very true1 said ,mr4 ,walton4 ,of    
course the thunderbolts of the higher   
powers fell upon the heads of the       

rebellious ,baptists1 but persecution   
only fanned the flame of their faith and
 zeal4 ,they grew and spread4 ,they     
planted the seeds of their faith on     
,english soil1 and we read that after   
#affj the ,english prisons were full of 
,baptists1 and ,miss ,dorothy has       
already read of the brave ,baptists who 
formed the flower of ,cromwell's        
,ironsides4  ,what do you mean exactly  
by saying that the ,baptists have given 
religious liberty to the world8 asked   
,mr4 ,page4  ,i mean this1 said ,mr4    
,walton4 ,up to the sixteenth century   
the ,catholic ,church held the so-called
 ,christian world in its grip1          
controlled men's consciences and decided
 how every man was to worship4 ,the     
,baptists rebelled against any          
interference with the religious life4   
,i thought it was ,martin ,luther with  
his ,reformation who broke the power of 
the ,catholic ,church and thus gave     
birth to religious liberty1 said        
,sterling4  ,the ,reformation under     

,luther did strike a prodigious blow at 
,catholicism1 but it was not a fight for
 absolute religious liberty4 ,never     
forget that4 ,lutheranism simply threw  
off ,catholicism to substitute a state  
church of its own4 ,in the ,reformation 
in ,england the church broke from       
,catholicism1 but it sought to set up a 
state ,episcopal church4 ,in ,scotland a
 ,presbyterian state church was set up1 
but during all this time the ,baptists  
were ever sounding their demand for     
absolute religious liberty without any  
interference or help from the government
 and for complete separation of church  
and state4  ,did not the ,baptists bring
 these principles to this country8 asked
 ,dorothy4 ,i think ,i read that they   
did4  ,you are right1 ,miss ,dorothy4   
,roger ,williams1 who was a ,baptist--  
,what is that6 exclaimed ,sterling4     
,roger ,williams a ,baptist8  ,he surely
 was1 and he was the apostle of         
religious liberty for ,america4 ,and how
 did the clause in the ,constitution of 

the ,united ,states granting religious  
liberty get in there8 ,it was brought   
about by the ,baptists of ,virginia1 who
 pleaded for it and fought for it and   
suffered for it4 ,bancroft1 the         
historian1 states that the ,baptists    
gave religious liberty to ,america1 and 
,john ,locke states that the ,baptists  
were the authors of religious liberty4  
,and1 gentlemen1 it is a fact to be     
borne in mind that1 while all           
,protestant denominations in ,america   
today practically believe in religious  
liberty1 yet it was not always so4 ,the 
,baptists in this country1              
single-handed1 took up the cause and    
fought it through to a finish1 and now  
all denominations are enjoying the      
benefits of it4  ,by the way1 ,mr4      
,sterling1 said ,dorothy1 ,i read today 
that ,john ,milton and ,john ,bunyan    
were ,baptists4  ,hold on1 ,miss        
,dorothy1 said ,mr4 ,sterling4  ,it is a
 fact1 said ,mr4 ,walton4 ,they agreed  
with the ,baptists in their fundamental 

doctrines4 ,you must remember another   
thing1 and that is that the principles  
of democracy that are sweeping over the 
world are largely the trophies of the   
,baptists4  ,mr4 ,page1 with a laugh3   
,there he goes gathering up some more of
 our treasures and claiming them for the
 ,baptists4  ,come1 let us vary the     
exercises with some ice cream1 said the 
mother4  ,you think the discussion is   
getting too warm1 do you1 mother8 asked 
,dorothy4  ,they adjourned to the dining
 room and a recess was taken4           
,,chapter ,,xiii4  ,,baptist            
,,principles ,,on ,,the ,,march4   ,now 
let us have the facts about the part the
 ,baptists have played in giving the    
principles of democracy to the world1   
said ,mr4 ,page4  ,history shows1 said  
,mr4 ,walton1 that up to the sixteenth  
century the ,catholic ,church1 in league
 with the government1 not only          
controlled the religious life1 but also 
the civil life of the people4 ,there was
 neither religious nor civil freedom4   

,the king and the pope ruled all4 ,then 
came the demand of the ,baptists for    
absolute freedom1 and although their    
demand had reference to religious       
freedom1 yet the inevitable result of   
this principle is civil freedom2 and in 
the wake of this came democracy1 which  
is simply the rule of the people4  ,but 
,i do not see that religious liberty    
necessarily leads to democracy1 said    
,mr4 ,page4  ,i think it does4 ,where   
absolute religious liberty exists for   
every individual you then have equal    
rights for all the people1 and this is  
democracy4 ,besides1 coupled with the   
doctrine of religious liberty is also   
the doctrine of the ,baptists regarding 
church government4 ,they believe the    
,bible to teach that every local church 
is independent of every other local     
church and of any higher government4    
,they believe not only in the           
independence of the local church1 but   
also of the individual4 ,in other words1
 each local church was a democracy in   

which all members were on a level1 each 
entitled to a vote in its management and
 the majority controlling4 ,this is     
democracy4 ,these principles of         
democracy have1 like a leaven1          
penetrated the nations4  ,you remember1 
father1 said ,dorothy1 it has already   
been mentioned how ,thomas ,jefferson   
got his idea of democracy from a little 
,baptist church4  ,you are right1       
daughter2 all this is mighty            
interesting4 ,go ahead with it4  ,see   
the rapid strides that these ,baptist   
principles are making1 continued ,mr4   
,walton4 ,they are on a world-wide tour 
of conquest4 ,in ,england the ,baptists 
have been in the front of the fight for 
freedom4 ,their household goods have    
been sold again and again in these      
latter days4 ,look at ,russia4 ,what    
mean those uprisings of the people      
against tyranny8 ,it is the stirrings of
 democracy1 and the ,baptists are       
bearing the brunt of the battle4 ,i saw 
at the ,baptist ,world ,alliance in     

,philadelphia some of the ,russian      
,baptists1 and ,i tell you they were    
stalwart-looking heroes indeed4 ,see how
 in ,spain and ,portugal the power of   
the hierarchy and of the monarchical    
government is crumbling4 ,behold ,china6
 ,what does it mean except the rule of  
the people supplanting the rule of the  
monarch8  ,yes1 said the father1 ,i     
noticed in the paper yesterday that the 
new president1 ,yuan ,shi ,kai1 had     
announced religious liberty for the new 
republic4  ,think of that4 ,and whence  
came that boon of religious liberty     
which the new ,chinese president is so  
generously offering to his great nation8
 asked ,mr4 ,walton4 ,who deserves the  
largest credit8 ,i believe the          
,baptists1 who suffered1 who fought1 who
 died that they might win it and        
bequeath it to the world1 and but for   
the ,baptists ,i doubt whether there    
would be any absolute religious         
liberty--and ,i had almost said no pure 
democracy--in the world today4 ,at least

 that is my conviction1 and ,i believe  
that had it not been for the ,baptists  
we would be having today a state        
religion in ,europe and in ,america in  
the sections which are not dominated by 
the ,catholic ,church4 ,the ,baptists   
refused to creep under the shelter of   
the government or to receive any        
benefits whatever from it1 but declared 
themselves in their religion absolutely 
independent of the government4  ,well1  
gentlemen1 said the father1 if all these
 statements are facts of history--and of
 course ,i do not deny them--then this  
is the biggest eye-opener that ,i have  
ever encountered4 ,i could only wish    
that the ,baptists in this part of the  
country--present company excepted1 of   
course1 ,mr4 ,walton--had only remained 
true1 in quality1 to the original stock4
 ,but maybe my opinion1 ,mr4 ,walton1   
may also be due to my ignorance2 don't  
you reckon so8  ,mr4 ,page spoke with a 
smile1 and ,mr4 ,walton smiled back4    
,another interesting thing ,i found in  

my reading-- ,dorothy remarked4  ,hello1
 is there something else8 asked the     
father4 ,i guess this time we will be   
told that the ,baptists took part in the
 creation of the world and in the       
illumination of most of the stars4      
,father1 don't make fun of me4 ,these   
facts deserve serious consideration4    
,good1 daughter1 go ahead4 ,i really    
feel very solemn about it all4  ,the    
other thing ,i found about them was     
their fearful suffering4  ,yes1 that has
 already been alluded to4  ,i know1 but 
you have no idea what a chapter in the  
world's history these sufferings make4  
,i saw two volumes filled simply with an
 account of the persecutions and        
sufferings of the ,baptists of ,holland4
 ,they were subjected to all manner of  
cruelties and tortures to make them give
 up their faith1 but they stood firm and
 thousands and thousands in ,holland    
alone were put to death4 ,john ,milton  
and ,john ,bunyan were both imprisoned  
for their faith4 ,it was a time when the

 governments were bitter in their       
punishments and the ,catholic ,church1  
and later on the other denominations    
also1 were back of these persecutions4  
,yes1 said ,mr4 ,walton1 it is a fact   
that all the denominations were against 
the ,baptists1 and in a sense that has  
been the case ever since4 ,in this      
country grievous punishments were       
visited upon the ,baptists during their 
fight for religious liberty4 ,they began
 their fight alone1 but the world is    
gradually accepting their beliefs4      
,other denominations may not take our   
name1 but they are taking our doctrines4
 ,i have spoken about religious freedom4
 ,take the case of infant baptism4 ,and1
 by the way1 our doctrine of infant     
baptism has not been picked up by       
accident4 ,it is logically connected    
with the doctrine of religious liberty4 
,how can that be8 asked ,sterling4 ,i   
fail to see any connection between      
infant baptism and religious liberty4   
,the doctrine of religious liberty means

 that every individual is accountable to
 ,god only1 and that each man's religion
 must be an act of his own free choice1 
and therefore no religious ceremony must
 be forced upon anyone1 infant or adult1
 without his own consent4 ,infant       
baptism violates the principles of      
religious liberty and individual        
accountability4 ,in fact1 ,i think you  
will find that there is a logical1 as   
well as ,scriptural1 connection between 
all our ,baptist doctrines4 ,this1      
however1 is parenthetical4 ,i started to
 speak of the spread of ,baptist        
principles among other denominations4   
,three or four hundred years ago the    
,baptists were almost the only ones to  
lift their voices against the universal 
practice of infant baptism4 ,how is it  
today8 ,though it is still on the creed 
books of the other denominations1 yet it
 is a fact acknowledged on all sides    
that the practice is becoming rarer and 
rarer4 ,the ,baptist teaching about this
 practice is permeating the other       

denominations4  ,what is that8 asked    
,mr4 ,sterling4 ,infant baptism going   
out of use8  ,i do not say that it is on
 the point of going out of existence1   
but ,i do say that under the influence  
of ,baptist teaching it is becoming     
rarer and rarer4  ,even though it should
 be somewhat on the wane--which ,i do   
not at all admit1 ,mr4 ,walton--yet     
supposing it to be the case1 what have  
the ,baptists to do with it8  ,i thought
 such questions might come up and so ,i 
came prepared1 ,mr4 ,walton replied1    
drawing a newspaper clipping from his   
pocket4 ,here is something written by   
,lyman ,abbott in the ,outlook of       
,november1 #ahig4  ,is he a ,baptist8   
asked ,dorothy4  ,no1 indeed1 replied   
,sterling4  ,does he believe in infant  
baptism8 she asked4  ,yes4 ,what is your
 quotation from ,dr4 ,abbott1 ,mr4      
,walton8  ,dr4 ,abbott is writing about 
the ,baptist ,congress that had held a  
recent meeting4  ,the ,baptist          
,congress8 exclaimed ,dorothy4 ,what is 

that8  ,it is a meeting where ,baptist  
men from different parts of the country 
come together once a year and discuss   
different religious subjects1 and they  
call it a ,baptist ,congress1 but of    
course they make no laws4 ,now1 ,dr4    
,abbott was writing about one of these  
,baptist ,congresses1 and he says3      
',they 7the ,baptists7 all hold1 and    
hold as strongly as ever1 that apostolic
 baptism was a symbolic expression of   
repentance and faith1 and that to       
baptize infants that can neither repent 
nor exercise faith is a change of the   
original ceremony from its original     
purpose4 ,historical scholarship        
abundantly confirms this contention4    
,infant baptism was unknown in the      
apostolic church4 ,the change can be    
justified only on the ground that no    
rite is of the essence of ,christianity1
 and that the same spirit of ,christian 
liberty which allowed the ,christian    
church to dispense with circumcision    
allowed it to change baptism from a     

symbolic act of faith by a penitent to a
 symbolic act of consecration by a      
parent4' ,this is not directly connected
 with the matter of infant baptism going
 out of existence which we were talking 
about just now1 but ,i have read it as  
showing what this noted advocate of     
infant baptism has to say4 ,he declares 
that infant baptism did not exist in the
 early church1 but that the church has  
changed it4  ,i can't understand that at
 all1 said ,dorothy1 in a perplexed     
tone4 ,i thought we went to the ,bible  
to learn about ,christianity and to the 
teachings of ,christ and his apostles   
for our guidance4 ,i thought that being 
a ,christian meant taking ,christ as our
 ,master and the ,bible as our guide2   
and now to say that we can change these 
commands and put something else in the  
place of them--why1 suppose ,christ does
 not want them changed8 ,if we can      
change one command1 why not any of the  
commands8 ,if it is not important to    
obey one of the commands1 why is it     

important to obey any of them8 ,let     
others do as they please1 but ,i have   
taken that ,book as my guide and ,i     
shall stand by it as closely as ,i can4 
,if ,i break from it at one point ,i    
fear ,i will start adrift out to sea4   
,here is the quotation that ,i was      
looking for showing the decadence of    
infant baptism1 said ,mr4 ,walton4 ,i   
read from the ,congregationalist of     
,january #ah1 #ahhb4 ,this is not a     
,baptist publication4 ,it reads3 ',the  
simple fact appears to be that the      
doctrine of the evangelical             
denominations as to infant baptism is in
 a transition state and has at present a
 materially loosened hold upon the      
popular conviction4 99 99 99 99         
,congregationalists1 under the attrition
 of ,baptist friction on the one side   
and the force of their own principles of
 individualism on the other1 have become
 a good deal demoralized in this        
particular4' ,think of that1 continued  
,mr4 ,walton4 ,you have this            

,congregationalist paper saying of the  
practice of infant baptism by its own   
denomination that it was diminishing    
partly because of the influence of      
,baptist principles4  ,if infant baptism
 is wrong1 said ,dorothy1 it is a good  
thing you see to have these ,baptist    
principles1 for they work against the   
unscriptural infant baptism4  ,here is  
another quotation4 ,it is stated that at
 one of the presbyteries of the ,dutch  
,reformed church held in #ahgi3 ',in    
view of the great neglect of infant     
baptism'--notice that--'in view of the  
great neglect of infant baptism a paper 
was requested by ,rev4 ,f4 ,h4 ,van     
,deveer1 ,d4,d41 on that subject'4      
,there you have a ,dutch ,reformed      
presbytery1 because of the great neglect
 of infant baptism1 requesting one of   
its distinguished members to write a    
paper on the subject4 ,baptist          
principles1 you see1 are at work among  
other denominations4 ,this is also true 
as to immersion4 ,the ,baptists have won

 the fight for immersion also4 ,here and
 there you will find some that deny that
 immersion is ,bible baptism1 but the   
scholarship of the world has yielded    
that point4  ,mr4 ,walton1 you amaze me1
 exclaimed ,mr4 ,sterling4 ,are you not 
mistaken about prominent men of other   
denominations agreeing that immersion   
was the original ,scriptural mode of    
baptism8 ,can you give us the names of  
them8  ,i can1 for ,i brought along a   
copy of some of these statements4 ,for  
example1 ,i have the words of ,john     
,wesley1 ,john ,calvin1 ,martin ,luther 
and ,cardinal ,gibbons4  ,what is that6 
exclaimed ,mr4 ,sterling4 ,why1 three of
 these men are the founders of their own
 denominations and the other is the head
 of the ,catholic ,church in ,america1  
and all of their denominations practice 
sprinkling and not immersion4  ,i will  
read their own statements1 and ,i can   
give you the very place where you can   
find their words in print4  ,sterling   
held his breath as ,mr4 ,walton began to

 read4  ,here are the words of ,john    
,calvin4 ,i believe he is regarded as   
the founder of your denomination1 ,mr4  
,sterling4  ,very well1 what does he    
say8  ,he writes as follows in ,book    
,,iv of his ,institutes1 ,chapter ,,xv3 
',the very word baptize signifies to    
immerse2 and it is certain that         
immersion was the practice of the       
ancient church4'  ,mr4 ,walton1 said    
,sterling1 looking at him with an       
intense gaze1 do you assert that ,john  
,calvin1 the great champion of          
,presbyterianism1 wrote that8  ,i do1   
and you will find it just where ,i have 
quoted it4 ,listen to ,john ,wesley1 the
 founder of the ,methodist church4 ,you 
will find his statements in his ,notes  
on the ,new ,testament in his comments  
on ,roman #f3d1 ',we are buried with    
him1 alluding to the ancient manner of  
baptizing by immersion'4 ,in other      
words1 ,wesley says that ,paul in this  
passage about baptism was referring to  
immersion1 and ,i guess ,paul was pretty

 good authority4 ,martin ,luther1 the   
founder of ,lutheranism1 says in his    
works1 ,witten ,ed41 ,vol4 ,,ii1 page   
#gi3 ',for to baptize in ,greek is to   
dip1 and baptizing is dipping4 ,being   
moved by this reason ,i would have those
 who are to be baptized to be altogether
 dipped in the water as the ,word doth  
express and as the mystery doth         
signify4'  ,you mentioned ,cardinal     
,gibbons1 the head of the ,catholic     
,church in this country1 said ,mr4      
,page4 ,do the ,catholics immerse8  ,oh1
 no1 said ,mr4 ,sterling4 ,what does    
,cardinal ,gibbons have to say8  ,in his
 book1 ',faith of our ,fathers'1 page   
#bge1 he writes3 ',for several centuries
 after the establishment of             
,christianity baptism was usually       
conferred by immersion1 but since the   
twelfth century the practice of baptism 
by affusion has prevailed in the        
,catholic ,church1 as this manner is    
attended with less inconvenience than   
baptism by immersion4'  ,well1          

gentlemen1 ,i am amazed1 said ,mr4      
,sterling4  ,mr4 ,sterling1 said        
,dorothy1 can it be a fact that the     
founders of these denominations declare 
for immersion and yet the denominations 
follow some other mode8 ,do you suppose 
that it is possible that these          
denominations1 like the ,catholics1 have
 adopted pouring because it was more    
convenient8  ,that is just how the      
practice has come into existence1 said  
,mr4 ,walton4 ,cardinal ,gibbons lets   
the whole secret out when he states that
 in the twelfth century pouring was     
adopted as the mode of baptism because  
of its convenience4 ,now remember that  
at that time there were no              
,presbyterians1 nor ,methodists1 nor    
hardly anybody except the               
,catholics--except1 of course1 the      
,baptists1 ,mr4 ,walton remarked with a 
smile in which all the others joined4   
,yes1 said ,dorothy1 you remember it was
 stated tonight that in every century   
there were bands of ,christians         

worshiping by themselves and protesting 
against the practices of the ,catholic  
,church1 and that these people seemed to
 believe1 in substance1 the principal   
doctrines held by the ,baptists today4  
,the point ,i was making1 continued ,mr4
 ,walton1 is that all of these          
,protestant denominations1 either       
directly or indirectly1 came out of the 
,catholic ,church three or four hundred 
years after the twelfth century1 when   
the ,catholic ,church abandoned         
immersion1 and when they did come out   
they brought with them the custom of    
pouring1 which at that time was         
practiced in the ,catholic ,church4 ,if 
the ,reformation had come1 however1     
before the twelfth century1 then the    
,protestant denominations would be      
practicing immersion1 because before the
 twelfth century the ,catholic ,church  
was practicing immersion4 ,that is the  
history of the change1 and explains1    
,mr4 ,sterling1 why you and your church 
practice pouring4 ,you inherit it from  

your ,catholic ancestors4 ,you have it  
because the ,catholics abandoned        
immersion and put their seal on pouring4
 ,i do not say it in any unkind spirit1 
but am simply giving you some ancient   
history4  ,father1 it does look as if   
the main part of the ,christian world is
 using a substitute for the baptism     
which ,christ has given us1 and that    
they received this mode from the        
,catholics4 ,mr4 ,sterling1 how can you 
be willing for the ,catholic ,church to 
dictate your baptism in that way8       
,dorothy's eyes flashed as she uttered  
the question and she seemed horrified at
 the thought4  ,mercy alive1 let me run 
out and catch my breath1 said ,mr4      
,sterling4 ,these are startling things  
that ,i am hearing tonight4 ,if it is   
true that we have sprinkling or pouring 
simply because the ,catholic ,church    
happened to have it when the            
,reformation came1 then ,i must confess 
it puts our denomination in the attitude
 of having our baptismal ceremony       

foisted on us by the ,catholics1 and we 
are now seeking from ,scripture to      
justify our position4 ,but1 ,mr4        
,walton1 that cannot be so4  ,i refer   
you to history4 ,i have given you the   
places where these statements can be    
found4  ,how did we get back into the   
subject of immersion8 asked ,mr4        
,sterling4  ,i was stating1 said ,mr4   
,walton1 that the truths of the         
,baptists were gradually permeating the 
ranks of the other denominations1 and ,i
 remarked that the principal scholars in
 the different denominations admitted   
that immersion was the original         
,scriptural mode1 the implication being 
that1 though it was the original mode1  
yet the church--and you see it was the  
,catholic ,church--had the right to     
change it4 ,it is a fact that members of
 other denominations are asking for     
immersion at the hands of ,baptist      
ministers4 ,only last fall ,i baptized a
 very prominent ,methodist minister who 
had become convinced from his study of  

the ,scriptures of the evils of infant  
baptism and the scripturalness of       
immersion4  ,mr4 ,page1 with a smile and
 a wink at ,mr4 ,sterling1 remarked3    
,exactly1 and you had better be on the  
lookout1 ,sterling2 these ,baptists will
 have you under the water yet4  ,mr4    
,sterling colored considerably1 for ,mr4
 ,page's banter had struck deeper than  
,mr4 ,page thought4  ,what ,i can't     
understand1 said ,mr4 ,page1 is how     
these ,baptists can be such wonderful   
people and yet occupy such an obscure   
position in this part of the country4   
,but they are not obscure in ,america1  
said ,mr4 ,walton4  ,no1 said ,dorothy4 
,don't you remember1 father1 how ,i told
 you that the figures state that the    
,baptists are next to the largest       
denomination in the ,united ,states     
except the ,catholics8  ,in ,georgia1   
said ,mr4 ,walton1 one person out of    
every four is a ,baptist1 and it is     
almost that way in ,virginia1 ,north    
,carolina and ,south ,carolina4 ,i      

understand that the ,baptists of        
,georgia pay over half the taxes of that
 state4 ,they are a mighty army in the  
,south and in the world4  ,all of these 
things were a revelation to ,mr4        
,sterling4 ,as to ,dorothy1 her mind had
 been made up many days ago1 and her    
path of duty was as clear as a sunbeam  
to her1 and it led straight to the      
,baptist church4 ,mr4 ,sterling had     
within him a storm of thoughts that he  
could not still4 ,his efforts to win    
,dorothy for his faith and his church   
seemed to have utterly failed1 and she  
appeared to be drifting further and     
further away from him4 ,he was tortured 
by the thought that he might lose her4  
,besides1 there was the chaos in which  
his mind had been left by the recent    
discussions and disclosures4 ,the       
evidence in favor of immersion as the   
,bible mode of baptism1 and the         
violation of ,scripture teaching in the 
case of infant baptism1 as well as the  
,bible teaching regarding church        

government1 stared him in the face4 ,it 
rose above all his ties of kindred and  
church and above all arguments that he  
could summon to his aid in favor of his 
position1 but he dared not let anyone   
suspect his state of mind4  ,he was     
eager to follow the matter still        
further1 though he felt as if he were   
moving towards a precipice4 ,it may to  
some thoughtless ones seem a trifling   
matter for one to abandon a position as 
to doctrinal matters and accept other   
truths4 ,men are constantly altering    
their opinions3 but for a ,presbyterian 
elder--especially one filled with an    
ambition for high usefulness in his     
church1 whose ancestors on his father's 
and mother's side have been of his      
faith--for him to come out before his   
church and before the public and        
acknowledge that he was wrong1 to give  
up his doctrines and his church and his 
prospects and his large circle of       
kindred and friends and link himself    
with an obscure and almost despised band

 of people meant a crisis1 and he did   
not even permit himself to consider it4 
,he merely tried to regard the          
restlessness in his mind as transient   
and to think that soon he would settle  
into his former composure and           
confidence4 ,that night as he sat in his
 room he remembered having seen in the  
afternoon paper the statement that ,dr4 
,r4 ,l4 ,boardman1 one of the most      
learned professors in the ,princeton    
,theological ,seminary1 a leading       
,presbyterian institution1 was to       
lecture that evening in the adjoining   
town about ten miles distant4 ,in a     
moment ,sterling decided on his plan4   
,he determined upon a desperate attempt4
 ,next morning by telephone he gained   
,dorothy's consent to a conversation    
with ,dr4 ,boardman in case he could    
persuade him to come over for that      
purpose4 ,before nine o'clock the next  
morning ,sterling had reached the       
,doctor by telephone and made an        
engagement to meet him1 and in less than

 an hour his automobile had whirled him 
to the next town1 and there ,sterling   
told the ,doctor of his friend who was  
seeking to know her duty as to church   
membership1 and he besought him to      
return with him and in the evening to   
visit with him his friends at the ,page 
home and to set the young lady right on 
the matter of sprinkling and infant     
baptism and church membership4          
,sterling won the day and a few hours   
later he and the ,doctor were speeding  
along the road to ,sterling's home4     
,sterling hung his hopes high on the    
,doctor1 who was a noted authority on   
,presbyterian doctrines4 ,he felt as if 
he were staking everything on the       
conversation of that evening4  ,mr4     
,page1 when he learned that the         
,princeton professor and the ,baptist   
preacher would both be on hand that     
evening1 knew that the discussion would 
be lively4     ,,chapter ,,xiv4         
,,sterling ,,brings ,,in ,,his          
,,reserves4   ,that evening after dinner

 ,mr4 ,sterling brought over his        
distinguished friend4 ,dorothy had      
invited ,mr4 ,walton to return and form 
one of the group4  ,doctor1 said ,mr4   
,page1 with a smile and a wink at ,mr4  
,sterling1 ,i guess you will have to set
 us all straight4 ,mr4 ,walton here is  
about to enlist ,dorothy and ,mr4       
,sterling under the ,baptist flag4      
,miss ,dorothy seems to think the ,bible
 commands her to be put under the water1
 remarked ,sterling1 and she does not   
believe at all in infant baptism4 ,she  
insists that these things prevent her   
joining our church1 and she talks as if 
the ,baptist doctrines are nearest to   
the doctrines which she believes the    
,bible to teach4  ,am ,i stating it     
correctly8 asked ,sterling of ,dorothy4 
,mr4 ,sterling is right in saying that  
,i believe in immersion and not in      
infant baptism1 and therefore ,i do not 
feel it would be right for me to join   
his church4  ,may ,i ask why you feel   
that you cannot join his church8 asked  

the ,doctor in a gracious manner4  ,if  
,i think the doctrines of the church are
 wrong1 do you think ,i ought to select 
that as the church for me to join8  ,may
 ,i ask another question8  ,sterling's  
hopes rose as he saw the ,doctor        
entering upon the discussion4 ,he felt  
there could be but one result4  ,mr4    
,sterling has mentioned that you thought
 very favorably of the doctrines of the 
,baptists4 ,one of the cardinal         
doctrines of the ,baptists is religious 
liberty4 ,that means they believe in the
 right of every individual to interpret 
the ,scripture for himself4 ,do you     
believe in that doctrine8  ,certainly4  
,don't you1 ,doctor8  ,i see you are    
putting me on the witness stand1 he said
 with a smile4 ,i answer that ,i        
assuredly do believe in such individual 
liberty2 but it seems to me that the    
,baptists are inconsistent4 ,they demand
 individual liberty and yet they cry out
 against us ,presbyterians because we   
interpret the ,scriptures in a way      

different from them4 ,you say1 ,miss    
,page1 you cannot join the              
,presbyterians because of their beliefs1
 but ,i should not think that that ought
 to concern you4 ,if you hold that      
everyone must interpret the ,bible for  
himself1 then that is what the          
,presbyterians are doing4 ,in doing that
 they carry out the ,baptist doctrine of
 individual accountability to ,god4     
,sterling was delighted4 ,it was just as
 he had expected4 ,he saw in a flash    
that if the ,baptists were true to their
 doctrine of religious liberty they     
could not demand that he change his     
faith1 but must accord him a perfect    
right to his belief4  ,excuse me1       
,doctor1 said ,dorothy1 ,i do not think 
you understood me4 ,i do not blame the  
,presbyterians for drawing their own    
conclusions about the ,bible and        
believing just what they think the      
,bible teaches rather than what somebody
 else thinks it teaches4 ,i grant them  
this right1 but it does not follow that 

,i must therefore join their church4 ,i 
say let the ,presbyterians follow what  
they consider to be the teachings of the
 ,bible2 but let me do the same and let 
me not feel that ,i must join their     
church4  ,no1 my young friend1 ,i would 
not say you must join the ,presbyterian 
church2 but may ,i ask why you should   
find it impossible to join that splendid
 body of ,christian people8 ,if         
everybody must follow his own           
convictions of ,bible teaching1 would   
you say you cannot fellowship those who 
do not interpret the ,bible as you do8  
,doctor1 ,i do not say ,i could not     
fellowship the ,presbyterians1 or       
anybody that may understand his ,bible  
differently from me4 ,i can respect them
 and believe them to be better          
,christians than ,i am4 ,but ,i don't   
think ,i ought to join their church     
unless ,i believe their doctrines4      
,well1 my daughter1 you will never find 
a church with every member believing    
just as you believe4  ,what does a      

denomination mean1 anyhow1 ,doctor8     
,does it not mean a body of people      
believing a certain set of doctrines8   
,yes4  ,it seems to me to be somewhat   
after this fashion4 ,i guess ,i have no 
right with my small knowledge about     
these things to be theorizing1 and yet  
is it not this way8 ,here in the world  
we find a multitude of ,christians4 ,as 
they read the ,bible some understand it 
one way and others understand it another
 way1 and still others another way1 and 
those therefore who understand it one   
way get together in one great company   
and those understanding it another way  
get together in another great company   
and so on1 and these large groups are   
the different denominations1 and this   
simply means that people believing alike
 naturally come together and fall into  
line under one name4  ,why1 yes2 that   
certainly sounds sensible1 daughter1    
said ,mr4 ,page4 ,i guess that those    
people who believe as ,mr4 ,walton      
believes about baptism and other matters

 are called by the name ,baptists1 and  
that those who believe the doctrines    
that ,dr4 ,boardman believes call       
themselves ,presbyterians4 ,now of      
course you would not respect a person   
believing as the ,baptists do and       
joining the ,presbyterians4 ,he is not a
 ,presbyterian in belief and he ought   
not to call himself such nor be known as
 such4  ,doctor1 asked ,dorothy1 would  
you want a person to join your church if
 he would not accept the doctrine of    
your church8  ,since ,i come to think of
 it1 my fair questioner1 ,i don't think 
we would take in such a person4 ,if you 
cannot accept the teachings of the      
,presbyterian church1 then probably you 
ought not to join1 though ,i confess ,i 
am not as strict as some of my brethren4
 ,if a person is with us in the         
fundamentals1 then we can overlook such 
minor matters as baptism and the like4  
,i think the trouble with the ,christian
 world today is that we are magnifying  
the non-essentials and neglecting the   

weightier truths4  ,you say baptism is a
 minor matter8 asked ,dorothy with some 
surprise4  ,why1 certainly1 my daughter4
 ,christ himself must be pained when he 
sees his people so anxious about        
external forms rather than about matters
 of heart1 of life4  ,that greatly      
bewilders me1 ,doctor4 ,it has been     
intimated several times that these      
matters about immersion and infant      
baptism and church government are minor 
matters1 that there are other doctrines 
that are of greater moment2 but let me  
ask1 are we to disregard and treat these
 as we please8 ,must we not try to obey 
these commands as they were originally  
commanded and practiced8 ,besides1      
,doctor1 it seems to me that this       
beautiful ordinance with its impressive 
teachings was given great prominence by 
,christ4 ,his last great command to the 
apostles had baptism in it1 and when    
people were converted under the         
preaching of the apostles the first     
thing they always did was to be         

baptized1 as if baptism was one of the  
things that had to be done and done at  
once4 ,christ was himself baptized and  
he commands us to be4 ,i don't see how  
you could wish it to be plainer than    
that4 ,i cannot understand how a person 
can say that one command of ,christ is  
not as important to be obeyed as        
another4 ,when you talk that way about a
 command1 does it not sound as if it did
 not make much difference whether we    
obeyed the command at all8  ,well1 my   
daughter1 said the ,doctor1 ,i glory in 
your zeal and courage and ,i bid you    
follow your convictions2 but you must   
remember one thing1 and that is that you
 will probably never find a church all  
of whose members believe exactly alike4 
,suppose you find some in the ,baptist  
church that believe something that you  
do not believe4 ,how can you            
conscientiously stay in with them8  ,i  
do not think it is a question as to what
 every individual member believes1 but  
what are the doctrines by which that    

particular denomination is known8 ,there
 are certain truths which the ,baptists 
believe1 and when you say you are a     
,baptist people know just what you      
believe4 ,as ,i understand it1 there are
 certain truths which all ,christians   
believe1 and on those points we are all 
one2 and although we may not be in the  
same organization1 yet ,i think we are  
like soldiers1 all fighting in the army 
of our ,king4  ,yes1 my daughter1 said  
the ,doctor1 we all belong to what is   
called the church universal4  ,but1     
continued ,dorothy1 there are other     
matters about which there are           
differences1 and this makes the army    
break up into different regiments2 but  
we all still have the same ,commander4  
,you are quite a little theologian1 said
 the ,doctor with a smile4 ,may ,i ask  
my young theologian a question8 ,how do 
you manage to swallow the ,baptist      
doctrine of close communion8  ,they do  
not seem close in their communion1      
promptly replied ,dorothy1 not any      

closer than you ,presbyterians4  ,you   
surely are a valiant defender4 ,how do  
you prove that8  ,you believe1 do you   
not1 ,doctor1 that no one ought to come 
to your communion table who has not     
first been baptized8  ,yes1 that is our 
rule4 ,i certainly would not advise one 
who has not been baptized to come to the
 table4  ,the ,baptists believe that1   
too4  ,but the ,baptists do not think ,i
 ought to come with them1 and yet ,i    
have been baptized4  ,yes1 but you have 
not been ,scripturally baptized--so the 
,baptists think4  ,but what have they to
 do with my baptism8 ,i am satisfied    
with it4 ,i believe it is ,scriptural4  
,i thought the ,baptists contended for  
individual freedom in interpreting the  
,bible4 ,i follow my conscience with my 
,bible and decide that ,i must be       
sprinkled1 and now you say the ,baptists
 say ,i ought not to commune because ,i 
have not been baptized the way they     
prefer4 ,in other words1 the ,baptists  
want me to interpret the ,bible not as  

my conscience decides1 but as their     
conscience decides4 ,if ,i have followed
 my conscience about baptism1 what more 
could you ask of me as to my baptism1   
and why should the ,baptists therefore  
refuse me a place at their table8       
,doctor1 ,i don't think they refuse     
anybody a place at their table4 ,i      
expect that is where so many people get 
the wrong idea about the close communion
 of the ,baptists4 ,mr4 ,walton says    
that they keep no policeman at their    
table to keep people away4 ,i think that
 is very important to remember4 ,they   
believe that everybody must interpret   
the ,bible according to his own         
conscience1 but that does not mean that 
they think that everybody that does this
 will interpret the ,bible as was       
originally intended4 ,but they do leave 
it to every man's conscience4  ,ah1 you 
are mistaken there1 my little lady4     
,that is just what the ,baptists do not 
do4 ,they do not leave it to other      
folks' conscience1 but--  ,at this point

 the ,doctor turned to ,mr4 ,walton and 
said3  ,mr4 ,walton1 ,i think it is one 
of the calamities connected with the    
life of the ,christian church today that
 so much of her energy is expended in   
arguing about differences rather than in
 discoursing on their agreements4 ,i    
think denominationalism is a blight on  
,christianity1 and if we could banish it
 and unite our forces1 presenting a     
solid front to the enemy in heathen     
lands as well as in our own land1 we    
would sweep the field for our ,lord and 
,master4  ,but1 ,doctor1 how can we get 
rid of denominationalism8 asked         
,dorothy4 ,can we ever get all men to   
think alike and to interpret the ,bible 
alike8  ,it is not that1 my daughter1   
said the venerable man4 ,we must all    
have our individual peculiarities1 but  
we must subordinate these to the great  
mission before the church of ,christ4   
,what do you mean by subordinating our  
beliefs8 asked ,dorothy4 ,i do not see  
how it weakens the ,christian army for  

,christians to have their own individual
 beliefs4 ,it seems to me it makes      
,christians a stronger people for them  
to be people of conviction and not for  
each one to treat ,christ's commands    
lightly4 ,let us not weaken at the point
 of conviction in order to strengthen at
 the point of courtesy and friendship4  
,why1 ,i should think that the greatest 
success would come by each denomination 
pressing forward along its own          
convictions4  ,will you let me say1     
remarked ,mr4 ,walton1 that ,i believe  
that the next epoch in the life of the  
,christian church will be a move not    
towards denominational unity that is so 
much talked about now1 but rather       
towards an emphasized denominationalism 
in the highest sense of that term8 ,the 
church in her march of conquest loses   
rather than gains in many of her        
attempts at union4 ,mark you1 ,i do not 
say in all her attempts at union1 but in
 many of them4 ,true denominationalism  
means that the ,christian church falls  

into certain divisions according to     
their interpretations of the ,bible4    
,the trouble with many efforts at       
,christian union is that the chief      
effort is not towards bringing the      
church to one view of the ,bible truth1 
but the pressure for union is often     
along the line of expediency4 ,a        
thousand times better is it for each    
denomination to press along the path of 
its own individual convictions as to    
,bible teaching2 then will each         
denomination be stronger4 ,there will be
 higher mutual respect4 ,some of these  
denominations may be1 and undoubtedly   
are1 mistaken in many of their views1   
but by such loyalty they at least exalt 
the ,bible to the loftiest place4 ,they 
put the emphasis on its study1 and if   
true union ever comes it will come from 
such focusing of study on the ,bible4   
,under the light of its teaching the    
denominations that are in error may see 
and abandon their error4 ,intenser      
denominationalism in the truest sense of

 that word is the secret of success4    
,when the slogan is 'one denomination as
 good as another'1 the ,bible truth     
fades into minor importance2 expediency1
 custom and other current considerations
 assume control and ,christianity is the
 loser4 ,if each denomination surrenders
 its differences in order to come       
together1 they may find after they have 
come together they have not much left   
that is worth coming together for4 ,if  
they put a light value on some of       
,christ's commands1 the danger is that  
they will come to look lightly upon all 
of ,christ's commands4     ,,chapter    
,,xv4  ,,crossing ,,the ,,rubicon4      
,the path seemed perfectly clear to     
,dorothy1 and she announced to her      
parents that she must join the ,baptist 
church4 ,the decision was a blow to     
them4 ,it is true that the discussions  
of the past two weeks and the remarks   
dropped by ,dorothy had indicated that  
she was moving towards that point and   
yet neither of the parents had believed 

that she would actually take the step4  
,the father had been greatly surprised  
at the facts that had been brought out  
in favor of the ,baptists1 but when the 
thought of ,dorothy identifying herself 
with the little ,baptist band in the    
town came into his mind his prejudice   
assumed control and he became           
rebellious4 ,to him and his wife the    
announcement of their daughter put a    
blighting disappointment on their       
ambitions regarding her future4 ,they   
had rejoiced in her growing popularity  
in the best social circles of the town4 
,besides1 they were not entirely unaware
 of the admiration of the young         
,presbyterian millionaire for ,dorothy  
and a union with that influential family
 was a prospect not unpleasant to them4 
,that their daughter should cut herself 
off from social opportunities and tie   
herself up with an obscure people that  
held meetings in one of the cheaper     
parts of the town--that was to them     
almost worse than her funeral4 ,they    

said nothing to her when she announced  
her decision4 ,she understood what it   
would probably mean for her1 but her    
convictions pressed her forward4 ,in    
fact1 she felt an eagerness to see and  
get acquainted with the little ,baptist 
band1 for she felt sure that1 while that
 particular church might for some reason
 be obscure and ignorant1 yet they came 
of royal lineage with an illustrious    
record behind them and she was glad to  
link herself with such a people4 ,the   
parents did not forbid her joining the  
,baptists1 but their silence1 their lack
 of sympathy and their manifest         
disappointment and grief over it made   
her burden far heavier than if they had 
openly opposed it4 ,she felt that she   
could have braced herself against such  
opposition and thereby showed her love  
for ,christ above her love for her      
parents1 but their suffering multiplied 
her own4  ,a pall of gloom seemed to    
have settled over the thought of their  
daughter picking her way along the      

narrow streets around to the cheap      
section of the town and down the rough  
steps from the sidewalk and into the    
plain chapel to mingle with the even    
plainer people was a humiliation that   
seemed crushing1 and they were          
speechless4 ,this was an experience that
 ,dorothy had never counted on4 ,her joy
 in finding what seemed to her the      
truth1 and in following it had not knew 
what church she expected to attend4 ,the
 home on that ,sunday morning when      
,dorothy came down to the library       
dressed for church4 ,the parents        
prepared her for this cross that rose up
 in her path4 ,at first she was inclined
 to resent such lack of sympathy from   
her parents2 but the sight of their     
disappointed faces put a lock on her    
lips and a load on her heart4 ,she      
wavered not1 however1 in her sense of   
duty4 ,on to the little ,baptist church 
she wended her way1 and it was a        
sensation indeed for the members when   
the door of the little chapel opened and

 in walked the beautiful daughter of the
 rich and honored1 though worldly1 ,mr4 
,page4 ,her entrance was not met by     
intrusive and impertinent glances4 ,the 
worshipers were stunned by her arrival1 
for they had no idea what it meant4 ,but
 they were too well trained in worship  
to be ill-mannered in their wonderment4 
,the simplicity of their worship went to
 her heart and she found herself        
entering into the spirit of the hymns1  
although she was not familiar with many 
of them4 ,in fact1 the entire service   
gave her much joy4  ,at the close of the
 service ,mr4 ,walton walked down to    
,dorothy1 gave her a hearty welcome and 
proceeded to introduce her to some of   
his members4 ,how genuine seemed their  
welcome6 ,the thought that their faith  
was her faith made her feel at home4 ,it
 is true that the plain room and the    
exceedingly plain attire of nearly all  
the people presented an almost shocking 
contrast to what she was accustomed to4 
,it made her wince under it1 but her    

better thoughts soon got the mastery4   
,her sense of duty held her firm and    
gave her a peace and even a joy in what 
she was doing4  ,she told the pastor she
 had come to ask for baptism and        
membership in his church4 ,he was not   
greatly surprised1 though much          
delighted4 ,he stated that he would be  
glad at the conclusion of the night     
service to receive her for baptism4     
,that evening1 when she started down the
 steps of her house to go to church1 she
 found the automobile at the curb at the
 front of the house and the chauffeur   
told her that her father had told him to
 have the machine ready to take her to  
the church1 that he did not wish her to 
walk around to that section alone4 ,she 
was touched at the thoughtfulness of her
 father1 and yet the silence of it all  
cut her to the heart4 ,she felt that she
 was almost an outcast from her parents2
 but then she judged that they could not
 understand her and that they were      
simply keeping aloof with their         

disappointment4 ,the meals had been     
eaten in almost perfect silence that    
day4 ,the mother did not care for dinner
 and the father ate and talked but      
little1 and then to the other members of
 the family4  ,that night ,dorothy was  
received for baptism and it was         
announced that1 on the following ,sunday
 night she would be baptized4 ,by the   
next ,sunday her parents began to       
relent4 ,at first they were inclined to 
be indignant with the ,baptist preacher1
 as if he were largely responsible for  
their daughter's action2 but as they    
recalled the discussions of the past    
month they realized that their daughter 
had reached her conclusions largely     
through her own study of the ,bible4    
,gradually they came to see that she    
must have her convictions and they ought
 not to interfere with her religion4    
,they saw that she was firm1 and they   
decided to accept the inevitable4       
,husband and wife talked it over and the
 husband said3 ,wife1 ,i think it is a  

clear proposition4 ,dorothy has taken   
the step and the die is cast4 ,it is not
 according to our fancy or hope1 but it 
is according to her convictions1 and ,i 
guess we would rather she should be a   
woman of convictions than for her to be 
one with no convictions1 but tossed     
about by every kind of influence4 ,i    
think we must try to make the most of   
it4 ,opposition1 ,i fear1 would only    
make matters worse for her and for us4  
,let us tell her we shall not oppose    
her4  ,and so it was agreed1 and that   
evening ,mr4 and ,mrs4 ,page talked     
frankly with ,dorothy and the burden    
rolled from her heart4 ,the parents said
 they never could attend that church1   
but that they would not stand in her    
way4  ,how her heart yearned to have    
them present at her baptism1 but she    
dared not ask them1 and she knew they   
would not come6 ,two of her girl friends
 went with her1 partly out of curiosity 
and partly out of devotion to ,dorothy4 
,mr4 ,page told the chauffeur to take   

,dorothy and her friends to the church  
first and then to return and take him   
and his wife for a ride4  ,as ,mr4 and  
,mrs4 ,page were being driven home in   
the automobile1 after their ride        
something impelled the father to tell   
the chauffeur to turn the corner and go 
up the third street4 ,the little        
,baptist chapel was on that street4 ,it 
was a summer evening and the windows of 
the church were raised and the door was 
open1 and as they approached the church 
,mr4 ,page told the chauffeur to slow   
up4 ,they heard singing1 and there      
through the open door they saw the      
pulpit and the open baptistry4 ,the     
machine stopped and they sat quiet as   
they listened to the singing1 and soon  
they saw a picture that chained them to 
their seats4 ,out into the water to the 
front moved ,dorothy at the side of the 
pastor4 ,the parents were sure that     
,dorothy never looked lovelier than at  
that moment1 and on her face was a      
happiness that they had never seen      

before4 ,it smote them to the heart4    
,they heard the words of the minister as
 he said3 ,dorothy ,page1 do you believe
 in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ as your    
,savior8  ,she bowed her head in assent 
and they saw her lips move4 ,the pastor 
then said3 ,upon a profession of your   
faith in the ,lord ,jesus ,christ and in
 obedience to his command ,i baptize    
you1 my sister1 in the name of the      
,father1 and the ,son1 and the ,holy    
,ghost4 ,amen4  ,they saw her fade from 
their sight under the water1 and then   
from the water they saw her rise as the 
congregation struck up the hymn3    ,o  
happy are they   ,who their ,savior obey
   ,and have laid up their treasures    
above4  ,that was all4 ,dorothy turned  
and was led by the pastor out of the    
baptismal waters and the father bade the
 chauffeur move on2 but an arrow had    
entered the hearts of the parents4  ,a  
new light shone in ,dorothy's eyes after
 that ,sunday4 ,those who saw her as she
 emerged from the baptismal waters      

declared that her face looked like that 
of an angel4 ,many times during the week
 she was heard singing in happy tones4  
,the thought that she had put obedience 
to ,christ's commands above every       
earthly consideration filled her with   
peace and gladness4 ,to her parents her 
new joy was a mystery4 ,association with
 a band of poor and obscure people      
suggested to their minds not happiness1 
but isolation and almost disgrace4      
,dorothy's chief thought now seemed to  
be her church4 ,not a day passed that   
she was not in conference with the      
pastor or some of the members seeking to
 familiarize herself with the condition 
of the church1 its needs and its work4  
,to the request of the superintendent   
that she would take a class in the      
,sunday school she replied with a       
startled expression3 ,oh1 ,mr4 ,randall1
 ,i must have someone teach me the      
,bible before ,i can teach others4 ,she 
finally yielded to his appeal and       
decided to go out among the poor and    

neglected of the town and gather some   
girls into a class4  ,it was an         
interesting spectacle that she presented
 on the next ,sunday morning as she     
marched into the ,sunday school with    
four girls whom she had ferreted out    
during the week1 and who had promised to
 come with her on the following ,sunday 
if she would come for them4 ,the sight  
of ,dorothy--beautiful in face but far  
more beautiful in soul--bending with    
such loving tenderness over her little  
quartette1 put new zeal into the other  
teachers4  ,at the first visit that     
,dorothy made to the church she noticed 
its bare furnishings1 but she gave no   
sign that she saw these things4 ,many   
plans had already begun to form in her  
mind as to improvements that might be   
made4 ,when she heard the pastor        
announce a meeting of the ,ladies' ,aid 
,society for the next ,tuesday afternoon
 she determined to be on hand4 ,at the  
meeting she asked the ladies to tell her
 what work the society sought to do4    

,they replied that they tried to raise  
money for different purposes2 sometimes 
for coal1 sometimes for pastor's salary1
 and that they had been hoping to raise 
something for improving the church      
building1 but the other expenses were so
 heavy their money was needed to meet   
them4  ,at the next meeting she         
suggested that they make special effort 
to raise money for painting the church1 
and the plan she advised was that they  
make bonnets and aprons for sale4 ,they 
agreed to this and set about the task4  
,the women said they had very little    
money to give4 ,they decided that in    
addition to the little money that they  
could donate they would also give some  
of their time and labor that could be   
turned into money4 ,they determined to  
rent an empty store and offer their     
goods for sale4 ,this was done4 ,it had 
already been well advertised and the    
whole town was talking about the        
enterprise of the little ,baptist       
church1 and the happiest of all was     

,dorothy as she labored with the other  
women4  ,it was the announced purpose of
 the society that every article must be 
up to the standard in quality and that  
every purchaser must get the full worth 
of his money4 ,they asked no buyer to be
 a benefactor4 ,the women considered    
they were giving as much1 if not more1  
than they were receiving4 ,the giving   
and the sacrifice were not on the part  
of the buyers1 but on the part of those 
women who had given their time and      
labor4 ,when they counted up their gains
 they found they netted over a hundred  
dollars4 ,but some good news awaited    
them4 ,a paint dealer in the town1      
hearing of their brave purpose to paint 
their chapel1 asked the privilege of    
donating a part of the paint4 ,two of   
their own members agreed to do the      
painting by working in the early hours  
of each day4 ',twas a happy day for     
,dorothy and for the church when the    
last touch of the brush was put on the  
church and the work was completed4 ,they

 next decided that the church building  
must be lifted to the level of the      
street1 and the ladies assumed that as  
their task4 ,the men promised their     
labor at their off hours4 ,a lumber     
merchant heard of their valiant struggle
 and made them a large gift of lumber1  
and thus the skies brightened for them4 
,dorothy's fingers1 as well as the      
fingers of the older ladies1 were busy  
making garments to be sold4 ,without    
going into details1 let it be stated    
that the little church found itself at  
last on a level with the street and with
 an excellent ,sunday school room in the
 basement4  ,dorothy's class had grown  
to a band of twenty girls and it was a  
picture worth going far to see--that of 
,dorothy surrounded by her girls1 and   
herself the happiest of them all4       
,during all this time ,sterling was     
wrestling with a racking experience4 ,it
 had become apparent to him that        
convictions had arisen within his soul  
that were at variance with the cardinal 

doctrines of his church4 ,he loved his  
church and her history2 he was devoted  
to the work in his ,sunday school and   
his church4 ,he determined1 however1 to 
remain with his people1 even though he  
felt that his church was in error on    
certain points4  ,thoughts of ,dorothy  
filled his mind day and night4 ,the past
 few weeks had been doleful ones for    
him4 ,when ,dorothy joined the ,baptists
 he felt as if he had lost her forever4 
,a gulf seemed to open between her and  
himself4 ,in a way she seemed to have   
stepped into a higher realm1 far above  
him4  ,her work for her church and her  
,sunday school occupied the largest part
 of her time1 and it was only           
occasionally that he had the pleasure of
 a tennis game with her4     ,,chapter  
,,xvi4  ,,sterling ,,scores4   ,at this 
time ,sterling found it necessary to    
take a trip through the ,west visiting  
his branch houses4 ,it was a doleful    
trip for him4 ,the spell of ,dorothy was
 on him and he had never realized how   

dependent he was on her being near him4 
,it was with a happy step that he       
bounded from the train at the end of his
 trip and hastened home with the thought
 of seeing her that evening4  ,dorothy  
could hardly have explained it1 but     
things had not seemed just right during 
,sterling's absence4 ,that she was      
missing him she had not admitted to     
herself1 but it is a fact that she found
 herself looking forward to his return  
with eager pleasure4  ,each day         
,sterling sought an excuse for a few    
words with her4 ,if he could not make an
 engagement for a tennis game or an     
automobile ride in the country he would 
ask for a drive with her on one of her  
rounds of visiting among her scholars4  
,in fact1 it was one of his greatest    
treats to go with her on such visits4   
,he was sure that no lovelier sight had 
ever been presented than that of        
,dorothy in her happy ministrations to  
her scholars4 ,she found comfort in     
confiding to him her plans regarding her

 class and her church1 and in them he   
was keenly interested4 ,many of his     
suggestions were helpful to her4  ,he   
told her one day that his convictions as
 to ,bible doctrines were the same as   
hers1 that the investigations through   
which they had gone had brought him to  
that point1 but that he did not think   
that was a reason for his abandoning the
 church in which he had spent all his   
life--the church in which there had been
 a long line of his ancestors before    
him4 ,he said he expected to remain     
there and work1 but that he would feel  
free to state his convictions whenever  
he thought it proper1 and he would      
rejoice if the day should ever come when
 his church would see and abandon its   
error4  ,when ,sterling found it        
necessary again to be absent--this time 
for a week--,dorothy found herself      
counting the days until his return4 ,the
 sympathetic interest that he had shown 
in her new experience had made his      
company very acceptable4 ,she started a 

game of tennis with her brother on the  
third afternoon after ,sterling's       
departure1 but she soon grew tired of   
the game and announced that she must do 
some visiting1 and she immediately set  
out for the homes of her scholars4      
,sterling cut short his trip and arrived
 home on the third day after his        
departure4 ,as he went speeding up to   
his office from the depot he espied     
,dorothy on the street4 ,what a shock   
she received as she saw him stepping out
 of the machine to greet her4  ,i know  
what you are up to6 he exclaimed4 ,you  
are off on another one of those angel   
visits to your neglected ones1 and you  
must let me go with you4 ,my machine    
will enable you to make twice as many of
 them happy as you could with your      
walking4  ,dorothy yielded to his       
insistent invitation and she found      
herself whirled along to the other      
section of the town2 and after the visit
 ,sterling headed the machine for a spin
 into the country4  ,thus the days sped 

by1 but there was never a day on which  
,sterling was not with ,dorothy4 ,into  
his ear she told all her experiences and
 her plans in her new church life4      
,sterling was called away one morning by
 a telegram to ,louisville4 ,dorothy    
knew nothing about it1 and when he did  
not appear on the tennis grounds that   
afternoon1 and she had not yet heard    
anything from him1 she thought it       
strange2 and when bedtime came and still
 no news1 she was first surprised and   
then resentful that he should act in    
such neglectful fashion4 ,when she heard
 nothing from him on the next day she   
found herself nervous and uneasy4 ,she  
could not get her consent to make       
inquiries about him1 and when she       
retired that night it was with a        
headache4  ,she was standing in her     
front porch next morning when his       
automobile dashed up to his gate and    
,sterling stepped out4 ,he saw her and  
hurried over and gave her an almost     
hilarious greeting4 ,he noticed an      

apparent reserve in her manner1 and yet 
the thought passed from his mind4  ,it  
seems like a small century since ,i saw 
you1 ,dorothy4 ,a telegram pulled me off
 for ,louisville early ,tuesday morning1
 and from that moment until ,i boarded  
the train ,i have been in a mad dash to 
finish my work and get back1 and ,i tell
 you ,i am prodigiously happy to be     
here4  ,if ,dorothy had studied his eyes
 during the last remark she might easily
 have read the reason for his desire to 
return4  ,and now ,i must make up for   
lost time4 ,i have had no pleasure ride 
since ,i left and ,i must have one this 
afternoon4 ,don't deny a dilapidated    
traveler the pleasure1 but be ready at  
two-thirty for a ride1 and after that   
for a tennis game4 ,before she could    
give her answer he decided it for her   
and told her that he would be on hand at
 the time mentioned4  ,for two hours    
that afternoon they sped along the      
country road in happy converse4 ,in     
fact1 their ride was lengthened into    

nearly three hours4 ,that evening found 
him again at her side4 ,the clock struck
 eleven4 ,he had started to leave a half
 hour before the time1 and still he     
lingered4 ,suddenly he turned his eyes  
upon her and said3  ,dorothy1 do you    
know why ,i dashed through my           
,louisville trip at such break-neck     
speed this week8  ,why1 you had to get  
back to your business1 did you not8     
,dorothy1 it was you that pulled me     
back1 and ,i tell you there can be no   
real life for me without you1 and ,i    
must have you mine forever4 ,from the   
first moment of our meeting ,i have been
 yours4 ,god intended us for each other4
  ,you speak very confidently1 she said 
with a smile1 but with her heart filled 
with a strange new happiness4  ,speak1  
,dorothy1 do we not belong to each      
other8  ,i do not deny it4  ,never had  
the town witnessed a more beautiful     
marriage than that of ,dorothy ,page and
 ,gilbert ,sterling4 ,that was the      
verdict of the people when the blissful 

pair smiled their adieus at the depot   
and moved off on their wedding tour4    
,it amounted to a sensation when the    
rich ,presbyterian elder severed his    
connection with his great church and    
joined the ,baptists4 ,it meant a bright
 era for the ,baptist church4 ,before a 
year rolled around a handsome new       
building had been erected on a          
commanding lot in the center of the     
town4 ,without offering any opposition  
to his old ,presbyterian church1        
,sterling plunged into the work of his  
new charge with whole-hearted devotion4 
,he made a study of the ,baptist        
denomination in the state of ,kentucky  
and in the ,south and ,north4 ,one of   
his first acts was to subscribe for     
several ,baptist papers1 and it was     
interesting to ,dorothy to note with    
what eagerness he read everything in the
 papers1 and each time his reading was  
punctuated with exclamations of surprise
 at the world-wide activities of the    
,baptists as he saw them recorded in the

 columns of the papers4 ,he found       
himself enthusiastic about their history
 and their present enterprises ,the     
efforts of the ,state ,mission ,board   
greatly interested him1 and he          
determined to get into close touch with 
it4 ,he told his wife that he intended  
to identify himself with all these      
denominational movements and share their
 burdens4  ,the ,baptists of ,kentucky  
and of the whole country have reason to 
be grateful for the day when ,gilbert   
,sterling enlisted in their ranks4 ,he  
is as yet on the threshold of his       
usefulness4 ,he is studying the needs   
and tasks of his denomination1 seeking  
to know how he can devote his strength  
and his possessions most effectively to 
its upbuilding4 ,there is no happier    
,baptist family in ,kentucky and none   
destined to a wider usefulness than that
 of the ,sterlings4                     
7,,the ,,end47