,,alcibiades ,i  by ,plato 7may be      
spurious--see ,appendix ,i7             
,translated by ,benjamin ,jowett        
,,appendix ,i4  ,it seems impossible to 
separate by any exact line the genuine  
writings of ,plato from the spurious4   
,the only external evidence to them     
which is of much value is that of       
,aristotle2 for the ,alexandrian        
catalogues of a century later include   
manifest forgeries4 ,even the value of  
the ,aristotelian authority is a good   
deal impaired by the uncertainty        
concerning the date and authorship of   
the writings which are ascribed to him4 
,and several of the citations of        
,aristotle omit the name of ,plato1 and 
some of them omit the name of the       
dialogue from which they are taken4     
,prior1 however1 to the enquiry about   
the writings of a particular author1    
general considerations which equally    
affect all evidence to the genuineness  
of ancient writings are the following3  
,shorter works are more likely to have  

been forged1 or to have received an     
erroneous designation1 than longer ones2
 and some kinds of composition1 such as 
epistles or panegyrical orations1 are   
more liable to suspicion than others2   
those1 again1 which have a taste of     
sophistry in them1 or the ring of a     
later age1 or the slighter character of 
a rhetorical exercise1 or in which a    
motive or some affinity to spurious     
writings can be detected1 or which seem 
to have originated in a name or         
statement really occurring in some      
classical author1 are also of doubtful  
credit2 while there is no instance of   
any ancient writing proved to be a      
forgery1 which combines excellence with 
length4 ,a really great and original    
writer would have no object in fathering
 his works on ,plato2 and to the forger 
or imitator1 the 'literary hack' of     
,alexandria and ,athens1 the ,gods did  
not grant originality or genius4        
,further1 in attempting to balance the  
evidence for and against a ,platonic    

dialogue1 we must not forget that the   
form of the ,platonic writing was common
 to several of his contemporaries4      
,aeschines1 ,euclid1 ,phaedo1           
,antisthenes1 and in the next generation
 ,aristotle1 are all said to have       
composed dialogues2 and mistakes of     
names are very likely to have occurred4 
,greek literature in the third century  
before ,christ was almost as voluminous 
as our own1 and without the safeguards  
of regular publication1 or printing1 or 
binding1 or even of distinct titles4 ,an
 unknown writing was naturally          
attributed to a known writer whose works
 bore the same character2 and the name  
once appended easily obtained authority4
 ,a tendency may also be observed to    
blend the works and opinions of the     
master with those of his scholars4 ,to a
 later ,platonist1 the difference       
between ,plato and his imitators was not
 so perceptible as to ourselves4 ,the   
,memorabilia of ,xenophon and the       
,dialogues of ,plato are but a part of a

 considerable ,socratic literature which
 has passed away4 ,and we must consider 
how we should regard the question of the
 genuineness of a particular writing1 if
 this lost literature had been preserved
 to us4  ,these considerations lead us  
to adopt the following criteria of      
genuineness3 7#a7 ,that is most         
certainly ,plato's which ,aristotle     
attributes to him by name1 which 7#b7 is
 of considerable length1 of 7#c7 great  
excellence1 and also 7#d7 in harmony    
with the general spirit of the ,platonic
 writings4 ,but the testimony of        
,aristotle cannot always be             
distinguished from that of a later age  
7see above72 and has various degrees of 
importance4 ,those writings which he    
cites without mentioning ,plato1 under  
their own names1 e4g4 the ,hippias1 the 
,funeral ,oration1 the ,phaedo1 etc41   
have an inferior degree of evidence in  
their favour4 ,they may have been       
supposed by him to be the writings of   
another1 although in the case of really 

great works1 e4g4 the ,phaedo1 this is  
not credible2 those again which are     
quoted but not named1 are still more    
defective in their external credentials4
 ,there may be also a possibility that  
,aristotle was mistaken1 or may have    
confused the master and his scholars in 
the case of a short writing2 but this is
 inconceivable about a more important   
work1 e4g4 the ,laws1 especially when we
 remember that he was living at ,athens1
 and a frequenter of the groves of the  
,academy1 during the last twenty years  
of ,plato's life4 ,nor must we forget   
that in all his numerous citations from 
the ,platonic writings he never         
attributes any passage found in the     
extant dialogues to any one but ,plato4 
,and lastly1 we may remark that one or  
two great writings1 such as the         
,parmenides and the ,politicus1 which   
are wholly devoid of ,aristotelian 7#a7 
credentials may be fairly attributed to 
,plato1 on the ground of 7#b7 length1   
7#c7 excellence1 and 7#d7 accordance    

with the general spirit of his writings4
 ,indeed the greater part of the        
evidence for the genuineness of ancient 
,greek authors may be summed up under   
two heads only3 7#a7 excellence2 and    
7#b7 uniformity of tradition--a kind of 
evidence1 which though in many cases    
sufficient1 is of inferior value4       
,proceeding upon these principles we    
appear to arrive at the conclusion that 
nineteen-twentieths of all the writings 
which have ever been ascribed to ,plato1
 are undoubtedly genuine4 ,there is     
another portion of them1 including the  
,epistles1 the ,epinomis1 the dialogues 
rejected by the ancients themselves1    
namely1 the ,axiochus1 ,de justo1 ,de   
virtute1 ,demodocus1 ,sisyphus1         
,eryxias1 which on grounds1 both of     
internal and external evidence1 we are  
able with equal certainty to reject4    
,but there still remains a small portion
 of which we are unable to affirm either
 that they are genuine or spurious4     
,they may have been written in youth1 or

 possibly like the works of some        
painters1 may be partly or wholly the   
compositions of pupils2 or they may have
 been the writings of some contemporary 
transferred by accident to the more     
celebrated name of ,plato1 or of some   
,platonist in the next generation who   
aspired to imitate his master4 ,not that
 on grounds either of language or       
philosophy we should lightly reject     
them4 ,some difference of style1 or     
inferiority of execution1 or            
inconsistency of thought1 can hardly be 
considered decisive of their spurious   
character4 ,for who always does justice 
to himself1 or who writes with equal    
care at all times8 ,certainly not       
,plato1 who exhibits the greatest       
differences in dramatic power1 in the   
formation of sentences1 and in the use  
of words1 if his earlier writings are   
compared with his later ones1 say the   
,protagoras or ,phaedrus with the ,laws4
 ,or who can be expected to think in the
 same manner during a period of         

authorship extending over above fifty   
years1 in an age of great intellectual  
activity1 as well as of political and   
literary transition8 ,certainly not     
,plato1 whose earlier writings are      
separated from his later ones by as wide
 an interval of philosophical           
speculation as that which separates his 
later writings from ,aristotle4  ,the   
dialogues which have been translated in 
the first ,appendix1 and which appear to
 have the next claim to genuineness     
among the ,platonic writings1 are the   
,lesser ,hippias1 the ,menexenus or     
,funeral ,oration1 the ,first           
,alcibiades4 ,of these1 the ,lesser     
,hippias and the ,funeral ,oration are  
cited by ,aristotle2 the first in the   
,metaphysics1 the latter in the         
,rhetoric4 ,neither of them are         
expressly attributed to ,plato1 but in  
his citation of both of them he seems to
 be referring to passages in the extant 
dialogues4 ,from the mention of         
',hippias' in the singular by           

,aristotle1 we may perhaps infer that he
 was unacquainted with a second dialogue
 bearing the same name4 ,moreover1 the  
mere existence of a ,greater and ,lesser
 ,hippias1 and of a ,first and ,second  
,alcibiades1 does to a certain extent   
throw a doubt upon both of them4 ,though
 a very clever and ingenious work1 the  
,lesser ,hippias does not appear to     
contain anything beyond the power of an 
imitator1 who was also a careful student
 of the earlier ,platonic writings1 to  
invent4 ,the motive or leading thought  
of the dialogue may be detected in ,xen4
 ,mem41 and there is no similar instance
 of a 'motive' which is taken from      
,xenophon in an undoubted dialogue of   
,plato4 ,on the other hand1 the         
upholders of the genuineness of the     
dialogue will find in the ,hippias a    
true ,socratic spirit2 they will compare
 the ,ion as being akin both in subject 
and treatment2 they will urge the       
authority of ,aristotle2 and they will  
detect in the treatment of the ,sophist1

 in the satirical reasoning upon ,homer1
 in the reductio ad absurdum of the     
doctrine that vice is ignorance1 traces 
of a ,platonic authorship4 ,in reference
 to the last point we are doubtful1 as  
in some of the other dialogues1 whether 
the author is asserting or overthrowing 
the paradox of ,socrates1 or merely     
following the argument 'whither the wind
 blows4' ,that no conclusion is arrived 
at is also in accordance with the       
character of the earlier dialogues4 ,the
 resemblances or imitations of the      
,gorgias1 ,protagoras1 and ,euthydemus1 
which have been observed in the         
,hippias1 cannot with certainty be      
adduced on either side of the argument4 
,on the whole1 more may be said in      
favour of the genuineness of the        
,hippias than against it4  ,the         
,menexenus or ,funeral ,oration is cited
 by ,aristotle1 and is interesting as   
supplying an example of the manner in   
which the orators praised 'the          
,athenians among the ,athenians1'       

falsifying persons and dates1 and       
casting a veil over the gloomier events 
of ,athenian history4 ,it exhibits an   
acquaintance with the funeral oration of
 ,thucydides1 and was1 perhaps1 intended
 to rival that great work4 ,if genuine1 
the proper place of the ,menexenus would
 be at the end of the ,phaedrus4 ,the   
satirical opening and the concluding    
words bear a great resemblance to the   
earlier dialogues2 the oration itself is
 professedly a mimetic work1 like the   
speeches in the ,phaedrus1 and cannot   
therefore be tested by a comparison of  
the other writings of ,plato4 ,the      
funeral oration of ,pericles is         
expressly mentioned in the ,phaedrus1   
and this may have suggested the subject1
 in the same manner that the ,cleitophon
 appears to be suggested by the slight  
mention of ,cleitophon and his          
attachment to ,thrasymachus in the      
,republic2 and the ,theages by the      
mention of ,theages in the ,apology and 
,republic2 or as the ,second ,alcibiades

 seems to be founded upon the text of   
,xenophon1 ,mem4 ,a similar taste for   
parody appears not only in the          
,phaedrus1 but in the ,protagoras1 in   
the ,symposium1 and to a certain extent 
in the ,parmenides4  ,to these two      
doubtful writings of ,plato ,i have     
added the ,first ,alcibiades1 which1 of 
all the disputed dialogues of ,plato1   
has the greatest merit1 and is somewhat 
longer than any of them1 though not     
verified by the testimony of ,aristotle1
 and in many respects at variance with  
the ,symposium in the description of the
 relations of ,socrates and ,alcibiades4
 ,like the ,lesser ,hippias and the     
,menexenus1 it is to be compared to the 
earlier writings of ,plato4 ,the motive 
of the piece may1 perhaps1 be found in  
that passage of the ,symposium in which 
,alcibiades describes himself as        
self-convicted by the words of          
,socrates4 ,for the disparaging manner  
in which ,schleiermacher has spoken of  
this dialogue there seems to be no      

sufficient foundation4 ,at the same     
time1 the lesson imparted is simple1 and
 the irony more transparent than in the 
undoubted dialogues of ,plato4 ,we know1
 too1 that ,alcibiades was a favourite  
thesis1 and that at least five or six   
dialogues bearing this name passed      
current in antiquity1 and are attributed
 to contemporaries of ,socrates and     
,plato4 7#a7 ,in the entire absence of  
real external evidence 7for the         
catalogues of the ,alexandrian          
librarians cannot be regarded as        
trustworthy72 and 7#b7 in the absence of
 the highest marks either of poetical or
 philosophical excellence2 and 7#c7     
considering that we have express        
testimony to the existence of           
contemporary writings bearing the name  
of ,alcibiades1 we are compelled to     
suspend our judgment on the genuineness 
of the extant dialogue4  ,neither at    
this point1 nor at any other1 do we     
propose to draw an absolute line of     
demarcation between genuine and spurious

 writings of ,plato4 ,they fade off     
imperceptibly from one class to another4
 ,there may have been degrees of        
genuineness in the dialogues themselves1
 as there are certainly degrees of      
evidence by which they are supported4   
,the traditions of the oral discourses  
both of ,socrates and ,plato may have   
formed the basis of semi-,platonic      
writings2 some of them may be of the    
same mixed character which is apparent  
in ,aristotle and ,hippocrates1 although
 the form of them is different4 ,but the
 writings of ,plato1 unlike the writings
 of ,aristotle1 seem never to have been 
confused with the writings of his       
disciples3 this was probably due to     
their definite form1 and to their       
inimitable excellence4 ,the three       
dialogues which we have offered in the  
,appendix to the criticism of the reader
 may be partly spurious and partly      
genuine2 they may be altogether         
spurious2--that is an alternative which 
must be frankly admitted4 ,nor can we   

maintain of some other dialogues1 such  
as the ,parmenides1 and the ,sophist1   
and ,politicus1 that no considerable    
objection can be urged against them1    
though greatly overbalanced by the      
weight 7chiefly7 of internal evidence in
 their favour4 ,nor1 on the other hand1 
can we exclude a bare possibility that  
some dialogues which are usually        
rejected1 such as the ,greater ,hippias 
and the ,cleitophon1 may be genuine4    
,the nature and object of these         
semi-,platonic writings require more    
careful study and more comparison of    
them with one another1 and with forged  
writings in general1 than they have yet 
received1 before we can finally decide  
on their character4 ,we do not consider 
them all as genuine until they can be   
proved to be spurious1 as is often      
maintained and still more often implied 
in this and similar discussions2 but    
should say of some of them1 that their  
genuineness is neither proven nor       
disproven until further evidence about  

them can be adduced4 ,and we are as     
confident that the ,epistles are        
spurious1 as that the ,republic1 the    
,timaeus1 and the ,laws are genuine4    
,on the whole1 not a twentieth part of  
the writings which pass under the name  
of ,plato1 if we exclude the works      
rejected by the ancients themselves and 
two or three other plausible inventions1
 can be fairly doubted by those who are 
willing to allow that a considerable    
change and growth may have taken place  
in his philosophy 7see above74 ,that    
twentieth debatable portion scarcely in 
any degree affects our judgment of      
,plato1 either as a thinker or a writer1
 and though suggesting some interesting 
questions to the scholar and critic1 is 
of little importance to the general     
reader4   ,,alcibiades ,i  by  ,plato   
7see ,appendix ,i above7  ,translated by
 ,benjamin ,jowett   ,,introduction4    
,the ,first ,alcibiades is a            
conversation between ,socrates and      
,alcibiades4 ,socrates is represented in

 the character which he attributes to   
himself in the ,apology of a            
know-nothing who detects the conceit of 
knowledge in others4 ,the two have met  
already in the ,protagoras and in the   
,symposium2 in the latter dialogue1 as  
in this1 the relation between them is   
that of a lover and his beloved4 ,but   
the narrative of their loves is told    
differently in different places2 for in 
the ,symposium ,alcibiades is depicted  
as the impassioned but rejected lover2  
here1 as coldly receiving the advances  
of ,socrates1 who1 for the best of      
purposes1 lies in wait for the aspiring 
and ambitious youth4  ,alcibiades1 who  
is described as a very young man1 is    
about to enter on public life1 having an
 inordinate opinion of himself1 and an  
extravagant ambition4 ,socrates1 'who   
knows what is in man1' astonishes him by
 a revelation of his designs4 ,but has  
he the knowledge which is necessary for 
carrying them out8 ,he is going to      
persuade the ,athenians--about what8    

,not about any particular art1 but about
 politics--when to fight and when to    
make peace4 ,now1 men should fight and  
make peace on just grounds1 and         
therefore the question of justice and   
injustice must enter into peace and war2
 and he who advises the ,athenians must 
know the difference between them4 ,does 
,alcibiades know8 ,if he does1 he must  
either have been taught by some master1 
or he must have discovered the nature of
 them himself4 ,if he has had a master1 
,socrates would like to be informed who 
he is1 that he may go and learn of him  
also4 ,alcibiades admits that he has    
never learned4 ,then has he enquired for
 himself8 ,he may have1 if he was ever  
aware of a time when he was ignorant4   
,but he never was ignorant2 for when he 
played with other boys at dice1 he      
charged them with cheating1 and this    
implied a knowledge of just and unjust4 
,according to his own explanation1 he   
had learned of the multitude4 ,why1 he  
asks1 should he not learn of them the   

nature of justice1 as he has learned the
 ,greek language of them8 ,to this      
,socrates answers1 that they can teach  
,greek1 but they cannot teach justice2  
for they are agreed about the one1 but  
they are not agreed about the other3 and
 therefore ,alcibiades1 who has admitted
 that if he knows he must either have   
learned from a master or have discovered
 for himself the nature of justice1 is  
convicted out of his own mouth4         
,alcibiades rejoins1 that the ,athenians
 debate not about what is just1 but     
about what is expedient2 and he asserts 
that the two principles of justice and  
expediency are opposed4 ,socrates1 by a 
series of questions1 compels him to     
admit that the just and the expedient   
coincide4 ,alcibiades is thus reduced to
 the humiliating conclusion that he     
knows nothing of politics1 even if1 as  
he says1 they are concerned with the    
expedient4  ,however1 he is no worse    
than other ,athenian statesmen2 and he  
will not need training1 for others are  

as ignorant as he is4 ,he is reminded   
that he has to contend1 not only with   
his own countrymen1 but with their      
enemies--with the ,spartan kings and    
with the great king of ,persia2 and he  
can only attain this higher aim of      
ambition by the assistance of ,socrates4
 ,not that ,socrates himself professes  
to have attained the truth1 but the     
questions which he asks bring others to 
a knowledge of themselves1 and this is  
the first step in the practice of       
virtue4  ,the dialogue continues3--,we  
wish to become as good as possible4 ,but
 to be good in what8 ,alcibiades        
replies--',good in transacting          
business4' ,but what business8 ',the    
business of the most intelligent men at 
,athens4' ,the cobbler is intelligent in
 shoemaking1 and is therefore good in   
that2 he is not intelligent1 and        
therefore not good1 in weaving4 ,is he  
good in the sense which ,alcibiades     
means1 who is also bad8 ',i mean1'      
replies ,alcibiades1 'the man who is    

able to command in the city4' ,but to   
command what--horses or men8 and if men1
 under what circumstances8 ',i mean to  
say1 that he is able to command men     
living in social and political          
relations4' ,and what is their aim8     
',the better preservation of the city4' 
,but when is a city better8 ',when there
 is unanimity1 such as exists between   
husband and wife4' ,then1 when husbands 
and wives perform their own special     
duties1 there can be no unanimity       
between them2 nor can a city be well    
ordered when each citizen does his own  
work only4 ,alcibiades1 having stated   
first that goodness consists in the     
unanimity of the citizens1 and then in  
each of them doing his own separate     
work1 is brought to the required point  
of self-contradiction1 leading him to   
confess his own ignorance4  ,but he is  
not too old to learn1 and may still     
arrive at the truth1 if he is willing to
 be cross-examined by ,socrates4 ,he    
must know himself2 that is to say1 not  

his body1 or the things of the body1 but
 his mind1 or truer self4 ,the physician
 knows the body1 and the tradesman knows
 his own business1 but they do not      
necessarily know themselves4            
,self-knowledge can be obtained only by 
looking into the mind and virtue of the 
soul1 which is the diviner part of a    
man1 as we see our own image in         
another's eye4 ,and if we do not know   
ourselves1 we cannot know what belongs  
to ourselves or belongs to others1 and  
are unfit to take a part in political   
affairs4 ,both for the sake of the      
individual and of the state1 we ought to
 aim at justice and temperance1 not at  
wealth or power4 ,the evil and unjust   
should have no power1--they should be   
the slaves of better men than           
themselves4 ,none but the virtuous are  
deserving of freedom4  ,and are you1    
,alcibiades1 a freeman8 ',i feel that ,i
 am not2 but ,i hope1 ,socrates1 that by
 your aid ,i may become free1 and from  
this day forward ,i will never leave    

you4'  ,the ,alcibiades has several     
points of resemblance to the undoubted  
dialogues of ,plato4 ,the process of    
interrogation is of the same kind with  
that which ,socrates practises upon the 
youthful ,cleinias in the ,euthydemus2  
and he characteristically attributes to 
,alcibiades the answers which he has    
elicited from him4 ,the definition of   
good is narrowed by successive          
questions1 and virtue is shown to be    
identical with knowledge4 ,here1 as     
elsewhere1 ,socrates awakens the        
consciousness not of sin but of         
ignorance4 ,self-humiliation is the     
first step to knowledge1 even of the    
commonest things4 ,no man knows how     
ignorant he is1 and no man can arrive at
 virtue and wisdom who has not once in  
his life1 at least1 been convicted of   
error4 ,the process by which the soul is
 elevated is not unlike that which      
religious writers describe under the    
name of 'conversion1' if we substitute  
the sense of ignorance for the          

consciousness of sin4  ,in some respects
 the dialogue differs from any other    
,platonic composition4 ,the aim is more 
directly ethical and hortatory2 the     
process by which the antagonist is      
undermined is simpler than in other     
,platonic writings1 and the conclusion  
more decided4 ,there is a good deal of  
humour in the manner in which the pride 
of ,alcibiades1 and of the ,greeks      
generally1 is supposed to be taken down 
by the ,spartan and ,persian queens2 and
 the dialogue has considerable          
dialectical merit4 ,but we have a       
difficulty in supposing that the same   
writer1 who has given so profound and   
complex a notion of the characters both 
of ,alcibiades and ,socrates in the     
,symposium1 should have treated them in 
so thin and superficial a manner in the 
,alcibiades1 or that he would have      
ascribed to the ironical ,socrates the  
rather unmeaning boast that ,alcibiades 
could not attain the objects of his     
ambition without his help2 or that he   

should have imagined that a mighty      
nature like his could have been reformed
 by a few not very conclusive words of  
,socrates4 ,for the arguments by which  
,alcibiades is reformed are not         
convincing2 the writer of the dialogue1 
whoever he was1 arrives at his idealism 
by crooked and tortuous paths1 in which 
many pitfalls are concealed4 ,the       
anachronism of making ,alcibiades about 
twenty years old during the life of his 
uncle1 ,pericles1 may be noted2 and the 
repetition of the favourite observation1
 which occurs also in the ,laches and   
,protagoras1 that great ,athenian       
statesmen1 like ,pericles1 failed in the
 education of their sons4 ,there is none
 of the undoubted dialogues of ,plato in
 which there is so little dramatic      
verisimilitude4   ,,alcibiades ,i  by   
,plato 7see ,appendix ,i above7         
,translated by ,benjamin ,jowett        
,,persons ,,of ,,the ,,dialogue3        
,alcibiades1 ,socrates4   ,,socrates3 ,i
 dare say that you may be surprised to  

find1 ,o son of ,cleinias1 that ,i1 who 
am your first lover1 not having spoken  
to you for many years1 when the rest of 
the world were wearying you with their  
attentions1 am the last of your lovers  
who still speaks to you4 ,the cause of  
my silence has been that ,i was hindered
 by a power more than human1 of which ,i
 will some day explain to you the       
nature2 this impediment has now been    
removed2 ,i therefore here present      
myself before you1 and ,i greatly hope  
that no similar hindrance will again    
occur4 ,meanwhile1 ,i have observed that
 your pride has been too much for the   
pride of your admirers2 they were       
numerous and high-spirited1 but they    
have all run away1 overpowered by your  
superior force of character2 not one of 
them remains4 ,and ,i want you to       
understand the reason why you have been 
too much for them4 ,you think that you  
have no need of them or of any other    
man1 for you have great possessions and 
lack nothing1 beginning with the body1  

and ending with the soul4 ,in the first 
place1 you say to yourself that you are 
the fairest and tallest of the citizens1
 and this every one who has eyes may see
 to be true2 in the second place1 that  
you are among the noblest of them1      
highly connected both on the father's   
and the mother's side1 and sprung from  
one of the most distinguished families  
in your own state1 which is the greatest
 in ,hellas1 and having many friends and
 kinsmen of the best sort1 who can      
assist you when in need2 and there is   
one potent relative1 who is more to you 
than all the rest1 ,pericles the son of 
,xanthippus1 whom your father left      
guardian of you1 and of your brother1   
and who can do as he pleases not only in
 this city1 but in all ,hellas1 and     
among many and mighty barbarous nations4
 ,moreover1 you are rich2 but ,i must   
say that you value yourself least of all
 upon your possessions4 ,and all these  
things have lifted you up2 you have     
overcome your lovers1 and they have     

acknowledged that you were too much for 
them4 ,have you not remarked their      
absence8 ,and now ,i know that you      
wonder why ,i1 unlike the rest of them1 
have not gone away1 and what can be my  
motive in remaining4  ,,alcibiades3     
,perhaps1 ,socrates1 you are not aware  
that ,i was just going to ask you the   
very same question--,what do you want8  
,and what is your motive in annoying me1
 and always1 wherever ,i am1 making a   
point of coming8 7,compare ,symp47 ,i do
 really wonder what you mean1 and should
 greatly like to know4  ,,socrates3     
,then if1 as you say1 you desire to     
know1 ,i suppose that you will be       
willing to hear1 and ,i may consider    
myself to be speaking to an auditor who 
will remain1 and will not run away8     
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly1 let me hear4  
,,socrates3 ,you had better be careful1 
for ,i may very likely be as unwilling  
to end as ,i have hitherto been to      
begin4  ,,alcibiades3 ,proceed1 my good 
man1 and ,i will listen4  ,,socrates3 ,i

 will proceed2 and1 although no lover   
likes to speak with one who has no      
feeling of love in him 7compare ,symp471
 ,i will make an effort1 and tell you   
what ,i meant3 ,my love1 ,alcibiades1   
which ,i hardly like to confess1 would  
long ago have passed away1 as ,i flatter
 myself1 if ,i saw you loving your good 
things1 or thinking that you ought to   
pass life in the enjoyment of them4 ,but
 ,i shall reveal other thoughts of      
yours1 which you keep to yourself2      
whereby you will know that ,i have      
always had my eye on you4 ,suppose that 
at this moment some ,god came to you and
 said3 ,alcibiades1 will you live as you
 are1 or die in an instant if you are   
forbidden to make any further           
acquisition8--,i verily believe that you
 would choose death4 ,and ,i will tell  
you the hope in which you are at present
 living3 ,before many days have elapsed1
 you think that you will come before the
 ,athenian assembly1 and will prove to  
them that you are more worthy of honour 

than ,pericles1 or any other man that   
ever lived1 and having proved this1 you 
will have the greatest power in the     
state4 ,when you have gained the        
greatest power among us1 you will go on 
to other ,hellenic states1 and not only 
to ,hellenes1 but to all the barbarians 
who inhabit the same continent with us4 
,and if the ,god were then to say to you
 again3 ,here in ,europe is to be your  
seat of empire1 and you must not cross  
over into ,asia or meddle with ,asiatic 
affairs1 ,i do not believe that you     
would choose to live upon these terms2  
but the world1 as ,i may say1 must be   
filled with your power and name--no man 
less than ,cyrus and ,xerxes is of any  
account with you4 ,such ,i know to be   
your hopes--,i am not guessing only--and
 very likely you1 who know that ,i am   
speaking the truth1 will reply1 ,well1  
,socrates1 but what have my hopes to do 
with the explanation which you promised 
of your unwillingness to leave me8 ,and 
that is what ,i am now going to tell    

you1 sweet son of ,cleinias and         
,dinomache4 ,the explanation is1 that   
all these designs of yours cannot be    
accomplished by you without my help2 so 
great is the power which ,i believe     
myself to have over you and your        
concerns2 and this ,i conceive to be the
 reason why the ,god has hitherto       
forbidden me to converse with you1 and  
,i have been long expecting his         
permission4 ,for1 as you hope to prove  
your own great value to the state1 and  
having proved it1 to attain at once to  
absolute power1 so do ,i indulge a hope 
that ,i shall be the supreme power over 
you1 if ,i am able to prove my own great
 value to you1 and to show you that     
neither guardian1 nor kinsman1 nor any  
one is able to deliver into your hands  
the power which you desire1 but ,i only1
 ,god being my helper4 ,when you were   
young 7compare ,symp47 and your hopes   
were not yet matured1 ,i should have    
wasted my time1 and therefore1 as ,i    
conceive1 the ,god forbade me to        

converse with you2 but now1 having his  
permission1 ,i will speak1 for now you  
will listen to me4  ,,alcibiades3 ,your 
silence1 ,socrates1 was always a        
surprise to me4 ,i never could          
understand why you followed me about1   
and now that you have begun to speak    
again1 ,i am still more amazed4 ,whether
 ,i think all this or not1 is a matter  
about which you seem to have already    
made up your mind1 and therefore my     
denial will have no effect upon you4    
,but granting1 if ,i must1 that you have
 perfectly divined my purposes1 why is  
your assistance necessary to the        
attainment of them8 ,can you tell me    
why8  ,,socrates3 ,you want to know     
whether ,i can make a long speech1 such 
as you are in the habit of hearing2 but 
that is not my way4 ,i think1 however1  
that ,i can prove to you the truth of   
what ,i am saying1 if you will grant me 
one little favour4  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes1 
if the favour which you mean be not a   
troublesome one4  ,,socrates3 ,will you 

be troubled at having questions to      
answer8  ,,alcibiades3 ,not at all4     
,,socrates3 ,then please to answer4     
,,alcibiades3 ,ask me4  ,,socrates3     
,have you not the intention which ,i    
attribute to you8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i will
 grant anything you like1 in the hope of
 hearing what more you have to say4     
,,socrates3 ,you do1 then1 mean1 as ,i  
was saying1 to come forward in a little 
while in the character of an adviser of 
the ,athenians8 ,and suppose that when  
you are ascending the bema1 ,i pull you 
by the sleeve and say1 ,alcibiades1 you 
are getting up to advise the            
,athenians--do you know the matter about
 which they are going to deliberate1    
better than they8--,how would you       
answer8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i should reply1 
that ,i was going to advise them about a
 matter which ,i do know better than    
they4  ,,socrates3 ,then you are a good 
adviser about the things which you know8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4  ,,socrates3
 ,and do you know anything but what you 

have learned of others1 or found out    
yourself8  ,,alcibiades3 ,that is all4  
,,socrates3 ,and would you have ever    
learned or discovered anything1 if you  
had not been willing either to learn of 
others or to examine yourself8          
,,alcibiades3 ,i should not4            
,,socrates3 ,and would you have been    
willing to learn or to examine what you 
supposed that you knew8  ,,alcibiades3  
,certainly not4  ,,socrates3 ,then there
 was a time when you thought that you   
did not know what you are now supposed  
to know8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4     
,,socrates3 ,i think that ,i know       
tolerably well the extent of your       
acquirements2 and you must tell me if ,i
 forget any of them3 according to my    
recollection1 you learned the arts of   
writing1 of playing on the lyre1 and of 
wrestling2 the flute you never would    
learn2 this is the sum of your          
accomplishments1 unless there were some 
which you acquired in secret2 and ,i    
think that secrecy was hardly possible1 

as you could not have come out of your  
door1 either by day or night1 without my
 seeing you4  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes1 that  
was the whole of my schooling4          
,,socrates3 ,and are you going to get up
 in the ,athenian assembly1 and give    
them advice about writing8              
,,alcibiades3 ,no1 indeed4  ,,socrates3 
,or about the touch of the lyre8        
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly not4           
,,socrates3 ,and they are not in the    
habit of deliberating about wrestling1  
in the assembly8  ,,alcibiades3 ,hardly4
  ,,socrates3 ,then what are the        
deliberations in which you propose to   
advise them8 ,surely not about building8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,no4  ,,socrates3 ,for  
the builder will advise better than you 
will about that8  ,,alcibiades3 ,he     
will4  ,,socrates3 ,nor about           
divination8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no4         
,,socrates3 ,about that again the       
diviner will advise better than you     
will8  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3
 ,whether he be little or great1 good or

 ill-looking1 noble or ignoble--makes no
 difference4  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly  
not4  ,,socrates3 ,a man is a good      
adviser about anything1 not because he  
has riches1 but because he has          
knowledge8  ,,alcibiades3 ,assuredly4   
,,socrates3 ,whether their counsellor is
 rich or poor1 is not a matter which    
will make any difference to the         
,athenians when they are deliberating   
about the health of the citizens2 they  
only require that he should be a        
physician4  ,,alcibiades3 ,of course4   
,,socrates3 ,then what will be the      
subject of deliberation about which you 
will be justified in getting up and     
advising them8  ,,alcibiades3 ,about    
their own concerns1 ,socrates4          
,,socrates3 ,you mean about             
shipbuilding1 for example1 when the     
question is what sort of ships they     
ought to build8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no1 ,i  
should not advise them about that4      
,,socrates3 ,i suppose1 because you do  
not understand shipbuilding3--is that   

the reason8  ,,alcibiades3 ,it is4      
,,socrates3 ,then about what concerns of
 theirs will you advise them8           
,,alcibiades3 ,about war1 ,socrates1 or 
about peace1 or about any other concerns
 of the state4  ,,socrates3 ,you mean1  
when they deliberate with whom they     
ought to make peace1 and with whom they 
ought to go to war1 and in what manner8 
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
they ought to go to war with those      
against whom it is better to go to war8 
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
when it is better8  ,,alcibiades3       
,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,and for as    
long a time as is better8  ,,alcibiades3
 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,but suppose the    
,athenians to deliberate with whom they 
ought to close in wrestling1 and whom   
they should grasp by the hand1 would    
you1 or the master of gymnastics1 be a  
better adviser of them8  ,,alcibiades3  
,clearly1 the master of gymnastics4     
,,socrates3 ,and can you tell me on what
 grounds the master of gymnastics would 

decide1 with whom they ought or ought   
not to close1 and when and how8 ,to take
 an instance3 ,would he not say that    
they should wrestle with those against  
whom it is best to wrestle8             
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and as
 much as is best8  ,,alcibiades3        
,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,and at such   
times as are best8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4 
,,socrates3 ,again2 you sometimes       
accompany the lyre with the song and    
dance8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3
 ,when it is well to do so8             
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and as
 much as is well8  ,,alcibiades3 ,just  
so4  ,,socrates3 ,and as you speak of an
 excellence or art of the best in       
wrestling1 and of an excellence in      
playing the lyre1 ,i wish you would tell
 me what this latter is2--the excellence
 of wrestling ,i call gymnastic1 and ,i 
want to know what you call the other4   
,,alcibiades3 ,i do not understand you4 
,,socrates3 ,then try to do as ,i do2   
for the answer which ,i gave is         

universally right1 and when ,i say      
right1 ,i mean according to rule4       
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
was not the art of which ,i spoke       
gymnastic8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4   
,,socrates3 ,and ,i called the          
excellence in wrestling gymnastic8      
,,alcibiades3 ,you did4  ,,socrates3    
,and ,i was right8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i    
think that you were4  ,,socrates3 ,well1
 now1--for you should learn to argue    
prettily--let me ask you in return to   
tell me1 first1 what is that art of     
which playing and singing1 and stepping 
properly in the dance1 are parts1--what 
is the name of the whole8 ,i think that 
by this time you must be able to tell4  
,,alcibiades3 ,indeed ,i cannot4        
,,socrates3 ,then let me put the matter 
in another way3 what do you call the    
,goddesses who are the patronesses of   
art8  ,,alcibiades3 ,the ,muses do you  
mean1 ,socrates8  ,,socrates3 ,yes1 ,i  
do2 and what is the name of the art     
which is called after them8             

,,alcibiades3 ,i suppose that you mean  
music4  ,,socrates3 ,yes1 that is my    
meaning2 and what is the excellence of  
the art of music1 as ,i told you truly  
that the excellence of wrestling was    
gymnastic--what is the excellence of    
music--to be what8  ,,alcibiades3 ,to be
 musical1 ,i suppose4  ,,socrates3 ,very
 good2 and now please to tell me what is
 the excellence of war and peace2 as the
 more musical was the more excellent1 or
 the more gymnastical was the more      
excellent1 tell me1 what name do you    
give to the more excellent in war and   
peace8  ,,alcibiades3 ,but ,i really    
cannot tell you4  ,,socrates3 ,but if   
you were offering advice to another and 
said to him--,this food is better than  
that1 at this time and in this quantity1
 and he said to you--,what do you mean1 
,alcibiades1 by the word 'better'8 you  
would have no difficulty in replying    
that you meant 'more wholesome1'        
although you do not profess to be a     
physician3 and when the subject is one  

of which you profess to have knowledge1 
and about which you are ready to get up 
and advise as if you knew1 are you not  
ashamed1 when you are asked1 not to be  
able to answer the question8 ,is it not 
disgraceful8  ,,alcibiades3 ,very4      
,,socrates3 ,well1 then1 consider and   
try to explain what is the meaning of   
'better1' in the matter of making peace 
and going to war with those against whom
 you ought to go to war8 ,to what does  
the word refer8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i am    
thinking1 and ,i cannot tell4           
,,socrates3 ,but you surely know what   
are the charges which we bring against  
one another1 when we arrive at the point
 of making war1 and what name we give   
them8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes1 certainly2 we
 say that deceit or violence has been   
employed1 or that we have been          
defrauded4  ,,socrates3 ,and how does   
this happen8 ,will you tell me how8 ,for
 there may be a difference in the       
manner4  ,,alcibiades3 ,do you mean by  
'how1' ,socrates1 whether we suffered   

these things justly or unjustly8        
,,socrates3 ,exactly4  ,,alcibiades3    
,there can be no greater difference than
 between just and unjust4  ,,socrates3  
,and would you advise the ,athenians to 
go to war with the just or with the     
unjust8  ,,alcibiades3 ,that is an      
awkward question2 for certainly1 even if
 a person did intend to go to war with  
the just1 he would not admit that they  
were just4  ,,socrates3 ,he would not go
 to war1 because it would be unlawful8  
,,alcibiades3 ,neither lawful nor       
honourable4  ,,socrates3 ,then you1 too1
 would address them on principles of    
justice8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4     
,,socrates3 ,what1 then1 is justice but 
that better1 of which ,i spoke1 in going
 to war or not going to war with those  
against whom we ought or ought not1 and 
when we ought or ought not to go to war8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,clearly4  ,,socrates3  
,but how is this1 friend ,alcibiades8   
,have you forgotten that you do not know
 this1 or have you been to the          

schoolmaster without my knowledge1 and  
has he taught you to discern the just   
from the unjust8 ,who is he8 ,i wish you
 would tell me1 that ,i may go and learn
 of him--you shall introduce me4        
,,alcibiades3 ,you are mocking1         
,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,no1 indeed2 ,i 
most solemnly declare to you by ,zeus1  
who is the ,god of our common           
friendship1 and whom ,i never will      
forswear1 that ,i am not2 tell me1 then1
 who this instructor is1 if he exists4  
,,alcibiades3 ,but1 perhaps1 he does not
 exist2 may ,i not have acquired the    
knowledge of just and unjust in some    
other way8  ,,socrates3 ,yes2 if you    
have discovered them4  ,,alcibiades3    
,but do you not think that ,i could     
discover them8  ,,socrates3 ,i am sure  
that you might1 if you enquired about   
them4  ,,alcibiades3 ,and do you not    
think that ,i would enquire8            
,,socrates3 ,yes2 if you thought that   
you did not know them4  ,,alcibiades3   
,and was there not a time when ,i did so

 think8  ,,socrates3 ,very good2 and can
 you tell me how long it is since you   
thought that you did not know the nature
 of the just and the unjust8 ,what do   
you say to a year ago8 ,were you then in
 a state of conscious ignorance and     
enquiry8 ,or did you think that you     
knew8 ,and please to answer truly1 that 
our discussion may not be in vain4      
,,alcibiades3 ,well1 ,i thought that ,i 
knew4  ,,socrates3 ,and two years ago1  
and three years ago1 and four years ago1
 you knew all the same8  ,,alcibiades3  
,i did4  ,,socrates3 ,and more than four
 years ago you were a child--were you   
not8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3  
,and then ,i am quite sure that you     
thought you knew4  ,,alcibiades3 ,why   
are you so sure8  ,,socrates3 ,because  
,i often heard you when a child1 in your
 teacher's house1 or elsewhere1 playing 
at dice or some other game with the     
boys1 not hesitating at all about the   
nature of the just and unjust2 but very 
confident--crying and shouting that one 

of the boys was a rogue and a cheat1 and
 had been cheating4 ,is it not true8    
,,alcibiades3 ,but what was ,i to do1   
,socrates1 when anybody cheated me8     
,,socrates3 ,and how can you say1 ',what
 was ,i to do'8 if at the time you did  
not know whether you were wronged or    
not8  ,,alcibiades3 ,to be sure ,i knew2
 ,i was quite aware that ,i was being   
cheated4  ,,socrates3 ,then you suppose 
yourself even when a child to have known
 the nature of just and unjust8         
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly2 and ,i did    
know then4  ,,socrates3 ,and when did   
you discover them--not1 surely1 at the  
time when you thought that you knew     
them8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly not4    
,,socrates3 ,and when did you think that
 you were ignorant--if you consider1 you
 will find that there never was such a  
time8  ,,alcibiades3 ,really1 ,socrates1
 ,i cannot say4  ,,socrates3 ,then you  
did not learn them by discovering them8 
,,alcibiades3 ,clearly not4  ,,socrates3
 ,but just before you said that you did 

not know them by learning2 now1 if you  
have neither discovered nor learned     
them1 how and whence do you come to know
 them8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i suppose that ,i
 was mistaken in saying that ,i knew    
them through my own discovery of them2  
whereas1 in truth1 ,i learned them in   
the same way that other people learn4   
,,socrates3 ,so you said before1 and ,i 
must again ask1 of whom8 ,do tell me4   
,,alcibiades3 ,of the many4  ,,socrates3
 ,do you take refuge in them8 ,i cannot 
say much for your teachers4             
,,alcibiades3 ,why1 are they not able to
 teach8  ,,socrates3 ,they could not    
teach you how to play at draughts1 which
 you would acknowledge 7would you not7  
to be a much smaller matter than        
justice8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4           
,,socrates3 ,and can they teach the     
better who are unable to teach the      
worse8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i think that they
 can2 at any rate1 they can teach many  
far better things than to play at       
draughts4  ,,socrates3 ,what things8    

,,alcibiades3 ,why1 for example1 ,i     
learned to speak ,greek of them1 and ,i 
cannot say who was my teacher1 or to    
whom ,i am to attribute my knowledge of 
,greek1 if not to those good-for-nothing
 teachers1 as you call them4            
,,socrates3 ,why1 yes1 my friend2 and   
the many are good enough teachers of    
,greek1 and some of their instructions  
in that line may be justly praised4     
,,alcibiades3 ,why is that8  ,,socrates3
 ,why1 because they have the qualities  
which good teachers ought to have4      
,,alcibiades3 ,what qualities8          
,,socrates3 ,why1 you know that         
knowledge is the first qualification of 
any teacher8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4 
,,socrates3 ,and if they know1 they must
 agree together and not differ8         
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
would you say that they knew the things 
about which they differ8  ,,alcibiades3 
,no4  ,,socrates3 ,then how can they    
teach them8  ,,alcibiades3 ,they cannot4
  ,,socrates3 ,well1 but do you imagine 

that the many would differ about the    
nature of wood and stone8 are they not  
agreed if you ask them what they are8   
and do they not run to fetch the same   
thing1 when they want a piece of wood or
 a stone8 ,and so in similar cases1     
which ,i suspect to be pretty nearly all
 that you mean by speaking ,greek4      
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3       
,these1 as we were saying1 are matters  
about which they are agreed with one    
another and with themselves2 both       
individuals and states use the same     
words about them2 they do not use some  
one word and some another4              
,,alcibiades3 ,they do not4  ,,socrates3
 ,then they may be expected to be good  
teachers of these things8  ,,alcibiades3
 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and if we want to  
instruct any one in them1 we shall be   
right in sending him to be taught by our
 friends the many8  ,,alcibiades3 ,very 
true4  ,,socrates3 ,but if we wanted    
further to know not only which are men  
and which are horses1 but which men or  

horses have powers of running1 would the
 many still be able to inform us8       
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly not4           
,,socrates3 ,and you have a sufficient  
proof that they do not know these things
 and are not the best teachers of them1 
inasmuch as they are never agreed about 
them8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 
,and suppose that we wanted to know not 
only what men are like1 but what healthy
 or diseased men are like--would the    
many be able to teach us8  ,,alcibiades3
 ,they would not4  ,,socrates3 ,and you 
would have a proof that they were bad   
teachers of these matters1 if you saw   
them at variance8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i     
should4  ,,socrates3 ,well1 but are the 
many agreed with themselves1 or with one
 another1 about the justice or injustice
 of men and things8  ,,alcibiades3      
,assuredly not1 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 
,there is no subject about which they   
are more at variance8  ,,alcibiades3    
,none4  ,,socrates3 ,i do not suppose   
that you ever saw or heard of men       

quarrelling over the principles of      
health and disease to such an extent as 
to go to war and kill one another for   
the sake of them8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no    
indeed4  ,,socrates3 ,but of the        
quarrels about justice and injustice1   
even if you have never seen them1 you   
have certainly heard from many people1  
including ,homer2 for you have heard of 
the ,iliad and ,odyssey8  ,,alcibiades3 
,to be sure1 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,a 
difference of just and unjust is the    
argument of those poems8  ,,alcibiades3 
,true4  ,,socrates3 ,which difference   
caused all the wars and deaths of       
,trojans and ,achaeans1 and the deaths  
of the suitors of ,penelope in their    
quarrel with ,odysseus4  ,,alcibiades3  
,very true4  ,,socrates3 ,and when the  
,athenians and ,lacedaemonians and      
,boeotians fell at ,tanagra1 and        
afterwards in the battle of ,coronea1 at
 which your father ,cleinias met his    
end1 the question was one of            
justice--this was the sole cause of the 

battles1 and of their deaths4           
,,alcibiades3 ,very true4  ,,socrates3  
,but can they be said to understand that
 about which they are quarrelling to the
 death8  ,,alcibiades3 ,clearly not4    
,,socrates3 ,and yet those whom you thus
 allow to be ignorant are the teachers  
to whom you are appealing4              
,,alcibiades3 ,very true4  ,,socrates3  
,but how are you ever likely to know the
 nature of justice and injustice1 about 
which you are so perplexed1 if you have 
neither learned them of others nor      
discovered them yourself8  ,,alcibiades3
 ,from what you say1 ,i suppose not4    
,,socrates3 ,see1 again1 how            
inaccurately you speak1 ,alcibiades6    
,,alcibiades3 ,in what respect8         
,,socrates3 ,in saying that ,i say so4  
,,alcibiades3 ,why1 did you not say that
 ,i know nothing of the just and unjust8
  ,,socrates3 ,no2 ,i did not4          
,,alcibiades3 ,did ,i1 then8            
,,socrates3 ,yes4  ,,alcibiades3 ,how   
was that8  ,,socrates3 ,let me explain4 

,suppose ,i were to ask you which is the
 greater number1 two or one2 you would  
reply 'two'8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i should4  
,,socrates3 ,and by how much greater8   
,,alcibiades3 ,by one4  ,,socrates3     
,which of us now says that two is more  
than one8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i do4         
,,socrates3 ,did not ,i ask1 and you    
answer the question8  ,,alcibiades3     
,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,then who is         
speaking8 ,i who put the question1 or   
you who answer me8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i am4
  ,,socrates3 ,or suppose that ,i ask   
and you tell me the letters which make  
up the name ,socrates1 which of us is   
the speaker8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i am4      
,,socrates3 ,now let us put the case    
generally3 whenever there is a question 
and answer1 who is the speaker1--the    
questioner or the answerer8             
,,alcibiades3 ,i should say1 ,socrates1 
that the answerer was the speaker4      
,,socrates3 ,and have ,i not been the   
questioner all through8  ,,alcibiades3  
,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and you the         

answerer8  ,,alcibiades3 ,just so4      
,,socrates3 ,which of us1 then1 was the 
speaker8  ,,alcibiades3 ,the inference  
is1 ,socrates1 that ,i was the speaker4 
,,socrates3 ,did not some one say that  
,alcibiades1 the fair son of ,cleinias1 
not understanding about just and unjust1
 but thinking that he did understand1   
was going to the assembly to advise the 
,athenians about what he did not know8  
,was not that said8  ,,alcibiades3 ,very
 true4  ,,socrates3 ,then1 ,alcibiades1 
the result may be expressed in the      
language of ,euripides4 ,i think that   
you have heard all this 'from yourself1 
and not from me'2 nor did ,i say this1  
which you erroneously attribute to me1  
but you yourself1 and what you said was 
very true4 ,for indeed1 my dear fellow1 
the design which you meditate of        
teaching what you do not know1 and have 
not taken any pains to learn1 is        
downright insanity4  ,,alcibiades3 ,but1
 ,socrates1 ,i think that the ,athenians
 and the rest of the ,hellenes do not   

often advise as to the more just or     
unjust2 for they see no difficulty in   
them1 and therefore they leave them1 and
 consider which course of action will be
 most expedient2 for there is a         
difference between justice and          
expediency4 ,many persons have done     
great wrong and profited by their       
injustice2 others have done rightly and 
come to no good4  ,,socrates3 ,well1 but
 granting that the just and the         
expedient are ever so much opposed1 you 
surely do not imagine that you know what
 is expedient for mankind1 or why a     
thing is expedient8  ,,alcibiades3 ,why 
not1 ,socrates8--,but ,i am not going to
 be asked again from whom ,i learned1 or
 when ,i made the discovery4            
,,socrates3 ,what a way you have6 ,when 
you make a mistake which might be       
refuted by a previous argument1 you     
insist on having a new and different    
refutation2 the old argument is a       
worn-our garment which you will no      
longer put on1 but some one must produce

 another which is clean and new4 ,now ,i
 shall disregard this move of yours1 and
 shall ask over again1--,where did you  
learn and how do you know the nature of 
the expedient1 and who is your teacher8 
,all this ,i comprehend in a single     
question1 and now you will manifestly be
 in the old difficulty1 and will not be 
able to show that you know the          
expedient1 either because you learned or
 because you discovered it yourself4    
,but1 as ,i perceive that you are       
dainty1 and dislike the taste of a stale
 argument1 ,i will enquire no further   
into your knowledge of what is expedient
 or what is not expedient for the       
,athenian people1 and simply request you
 to say why you do not explain whether  
justice and expediency are the same or  
different8 ,and if you like you may     
examine me as ,i have examined you1 or1 
if you would rather1 you may carry on   
the discussion by yourself4             
,,alcibiades3 ,but ,i am not certain1   
,socrates1 whether ,i shall be able to  

discuss the matter with you4            
,,socrates3 ,then imagine1 my dear      
fellow1 that ,i am the demus and the    
ecclesia2 for in the ecclesia1 too1 you 
will have to persuade men individually4 
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and is
 not the same person able to persuade   
one individual singly and many          
individuals of the things which he      
knows8 ,the grammarian1 for example1 can
 persuade one and he can persuade many  
about letters4  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4    
,,socrates3 ,and about number1 will not 
the same person persuade one and        
persuade many8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4     
,,socrates3 ,and this will be he who    
knows number1 or the arithmetician8     
,,alcibiades3 ,quite true4  ,,socrates3 
,and cannot you persuade one man about  
that of which you can persuade many8    
,,alcibiades3 ,i suppose so4            
,,socrates3 ,and that of which you can  
persuade either is clearly what you     
know8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 
,and the only difference between one who

 argues as we are doing1 and the orator 
who is addressing an assembly1 is that  
the one seeks to persuade a number1 and 
the other an individual1 of the same    
things4  ,,alcibiades3 ,i suppose so4   
,,socrates3 ,well1 then1 since the same 
person who can persuade a multitude can 
persuade individuals1 try conclusions   
upon me1 and prove to me that the just  
is not always expedient4  ,,alcibiades3 
,you take liberties1 ,socrates4         
,,socrates3 ,i shall take the liberty of
 proving to you the opposite of that    
which you will not prove to me4         
,,alcibiades3 ,proceed4  ,,socrates3    
,answer my questions--that is all4      
,,alcibiades3 ,nay1 ,i should like you  
to be the speaker4  ,,socrates3 ,what1  
do you not wish to be persuaded8        
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly ,i do4         
,,socrates3 ,and can you be persuaded   
better than out of your own mouth8      
,,alcibiades3 ,i think not4  ,,socrates3
 ,then you shall answer2 and if you do  
not hear the words1 that the just is the

 expedient1 coming from your own lips1  
never believe another man again4        
,,alcibiades3 ,i won't2 but answer ,i   
will1 for ,i do not see how ,i can come 
to any harm4  ,,socrates3 ,a true       
prophecy6 ,let me begin then by         
enquiring of you whether you allow that 
the just is sometimes expedient and     
sometimes not8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4     
,,socrates3 ,and sometimes honourable   
and sometimes not8  ,,alcibiades3 ,what 
do you mean8  ,,socrates3 ,i am asking  
if you ever knew any one who did what   
was dishonourable and yet just8         
,,alcibiades3 ,never4  ,,socrates3 ,all 
just things are honourable8             
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
are honourable things sometimes good and
 sometimes not good1 or are they always 
good8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i rather think1   
,socrates1 that some honourable things  
are evil4  ,,socrates3 ,and are some    
dishonourable things good8              
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,you   
mean in such a case as the              

following3--,in time of war1 men have   
been wounded or have died in rescuing a 
companion or kinsman1 when others who   
have neglected the duty of rescuing them
 have escaped in safety8  ,,alcibiades3 
,true4  ,,socrates3 ,and to rescue      
another under such circumstances is     
honourable1 in respect of the attempt to
 save those whom we ought to save2 and  
this is courage8  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4  
,,socrates3 ,but evil in respect of     
death and wounds8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  
,,socrates3 ,and the courage which is   
shown in the rescue is one thing1 and   
the death another8  ,,alcibiades3       
,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,then the      
rescue of one's friends is honourable in
 one point of view1 but evil in another8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,and
 if honourable1 then also good3 ,will   
you consider now whether ,i may not be  
right1 for you were acknowledging that  
the courage which is shown in the rescue
 is honourable8 ,now is this courage    
good or evil8 ,look at the matter thus3 

which would you rather choose1 good or  
evil8  ,,alcibiades3 ,good4  ,,socrates3
 ,and the greatest goods you would be   
most ready to choose1 and would least   
like to be deprived of them8            
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4  ,,socrates3  
,what would you say of courage8 ,at what
 price would you be willing to be       
deprived of courage8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i  
would rather die than be a coward4      
,,socrates3 ,then you think that        
cowardice is the worst of evils8        
,,alcibiades3 ,i do4  ,,socrates3 ,as   
bad as death1 ,i suppose8  ,,alcibiades3
 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and life and       
courage are the extreme opposites of    
death and cowardice8  ,,alcibiades3     
,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and they are what   
you would most desire to have1 and their
 opposites you would least desire8      
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,is    
this because you think life and courage 
the best1 and death and cowardice the   
worst8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3
 ,and you would term the rescue of a    

friend in battle honourable1 in as much 
as courage does a good work8            
,,alcibiades3 ,i should4  ,,socrates3   
,but evil because of the death which    
ensues8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4            
,,socrates3 ,might we not describe their
 different effects as follows3--,you may
 call either of them evil in respect of 
the evil which is the result1 and good  
in respect of the good which is the     
result of either of them8  ,,alcibiades3
 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and they are       
honourable in so far as they are good1  
and dishonourable in so far as they are 
evil8  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3
 ,then when you say that the rescue of a
 friend in battle is honourable and yet 
evil1 that is equivalent to saying that 
the rescue is good and yet evil8        
,,alcibiades3 ,i believe that you are   
right1 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,nothing 
honourable1 regarded as honourable1 is  
evil2 nor anything base1 regarded as    
base1 good4  ,,alcibiades3 ,clearly not4
  ,,socrates3 ,look at the matter yet   

once more in a further light3 he who    
acts honourably acts well8              
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and he
 who acts well is happy8  ,,alcibiades3 
,of course4  ,,socrates3 ,and the happy 
are those who obtain good8              
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,and  
they obtain good by acting well and     
honourably8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4        
,,socrates3 ,then acting well is a good8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4  ,,socrates3
 ,and happiness is a good8              
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,then  
the good and the honourable are again   
identified4  ,,alcibiades3 ,manifestly4 
,,socrates3 ,then1 if the argument      
holds1 what we find to be honourable we 
shall also find to be good8             
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4  ,,socrates3  
,and is the good expedient or not8      
,,alcibiades3 ,expedient4  ,,socrates3  
,do you remember our admissions about   
the just8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes2 if ,i am 
not mistaken1 we said that those who    
acted justly must also act honourably4  

,,socrates3 ,and the honourable is the  
good8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 
,and the good is expedient8             
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,then1 
,alcibiades1 the just is expedient8     
,,alcibiades3 ,i should infer so4       
,,socrates3 ,and all this ,i prove out  
of your own mouth1 for ,i ask and you   
answer8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i must          
acknowledge it to be true4  ,,socrates3 
,and having acknowledged that the just  
is the same as the expedient1 are you   
not 7let me ask7 prepared to ridicule   
any one who1 pretending to understand   
the principles of justice and injustice1
 gets up to advise the noble ,athenians 
or the ignoble ,peparethians1 that the  
just may be the evil8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i 
solemnly declare1 ,socrates1 that ,i do 
not know what ,i am saying4 ,verily1 ,i 
am in a strange state1 for when you put 
questions to me ,i am of different minds
 in successive instants4  ,,socrates3   
,and are you not aware of the nature of 
this perplexity1 my friend8             

,,alcibiades3 ,indeed ,i am not4        
,,socrates3 ,do you suppose that if some
 one were to ask you whether you have   
two eyes or three1 or two hands or four1
 or anything of that sort1 you would    
then be of different minds in successive
 instants8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i begin to   
distrust myself1 but still ,i do not    
suppose that ,i should4  ,,socrates3    
,you would feel no doubt2 and for this  
reason--because you would know8         
,,alcibiades3 ,i suppose so4            
,,socrates3 ,and the reason why you     
involuntarily contradict yourself is    
clearly that you are ignorant8          
,,alcibiades3 ,very likely4  ,,socrates3
 ,and if you are perplexed in answering 
about just and unjust1 honourable and   
dishonourable1 good and evil1 expedient 
and inexpedient1 the reason is that you 
are ignorant of them1 and therefore in  
perplexity4 ,is not that clear8         
,,alcibiades3 ,i agree4  ,,socrates3    
,but is this always the case1 and is a  
man necessarily perplexed about that of 

which he has no knowledge8              
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly he is4         
,,socrates3 ,and do you know how to     
ascend into heaven8  ,,alcibiades3      
,certainly not4  ,,socrates3 ,and in    
this case1 too1 is your judgment        
perplexed8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no4          
,,socrates3 ,do you see the reason why1 
or shall ,i tell you8  ,,alcibiades3    
,tell me4  ,,socrates3 ,the reason is1  
that you not only do not know1 my       
friend1 but you do not think that you   
know4  ,,alcibiades3 ,there again2 what 
do you mean8  ,,socrates3 ,ask yourself2
 are you in any perplexity about things 
of which you are ignorant8 ,you know1   
for example1 that you know nothing about
 the preparation of food4  ,,alcibiades3
 ,very true4  ,,socrates3 ,and do you   
think and perplex yourself about the    
preparation of food3 or do you leave    
that to some one who understands the    
art8  ,,alcibiades3 ,the latter4        
,,socrates3 ,or if you were on a voyage1
 would you bewilder yourself by         

considering whether the rudder is to be 
drawn inwards or outwards1 or do you    
leave that to the pilot1 and do nothing8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,it would be the concern
 of the pilot4  ,,socrates3 ,then you   
are not perplexed about what you do not 
know1 if you know that you do not know  
it8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i imagine not4      
,,socrates3 ,do you not see1 then1 that 
mistakes in life and practice are       
likewise to be attributed to the        
ignorance which has conceit of          
knowledge8  ,,alcibiades3 ,once more1   
what do you mean8  ,,socrates3 ,i       
suppose that we begin to act when we    
think that we know what we are doing8   
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,but   
when people think that they do not know1
 they entrust their business to others8 
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and so
 there is a class of ignorant persons   
who do not make mistakes in life1       
because they trust others about things  
of which they are ignorant8             
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,who1 

then1 are the persons who make mistakes8
 ,they cannot1 of course1 be those who  
know8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly not4    
,,socrates3 ,but if neither those who   
know1 nor those who know that they do   
not know1 make mistakes1 there remain   
those only who do not know and think    
that they know4  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes1    
only those4  ,,socrates3 ,then this is  
ignorance of the disgraceful sort which 
is mischievous8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4    
,,socrates3 ,and most mischievous and   
most disgraceful when having to do with 
the greatest matters8  ,,alcibiades3 ,by
 far4  ,,socrates3 ,and can there be any
 matters greater than the just1 the     
honourable1 the good1 and the expedient8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,there cannot be4       
,,socrates3 ,and these1 as you were     
saying1 are what perplex you8           
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,but if
 you are perplexed1 then1 as the        
previous argument has shown1 you are not
 only ignorant of the greatest matters1 
but being ignorant you fancy that you   

know them8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i fear that  
you are right4  ,,socrates3 ,and now see
 what has happened to you1 ,alcibiades6 
,i hardly like to speak of your evil    
case1 but as we are alone ,i will3 ,my  
good friend1 you are wedded to ignorance
 of the most disgraceful kind1 and of   
this you are convicted1 not by me1 but  
out of your own mouth and by your own   
argument2 wherefore also you rush into  
politics before you are educated4       
,neither is your case to be deemed      
singular4 ,for ,i might say the same of 
almost all our statesmen1 with the      
exception1 perhaps of your guardian1    
,pericles4  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes1         
,socrates2 and ,pericles is said not to 
have got his wisdom by the light of     
nature1 but to have associated with     
several of the philosophers2 with       
,pythocleides1 for example1 and with    
,anaxagoras1 and now in advanced life   
with ,damon1 in the hope of gaining     
wisdom4  ,,socrates3 ,very good2 but did
 you ever know a man wise in anything   

who was unable to impart his particular 
wisdom8 ,for example1 he who taught you 
letters was not only wise1 but he made  
you and any others whom he liked wise4  
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
you1 whom he taught1 can do the same8   
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,and  
in like manner the harper and           
gymnastic-master8  ,,alcibiades3        
,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,when a person 
is enabled to impart knowledge to       
another1 he thereby gives an excellent  
proof of his own understanding of any   
matter4  ,,alcibiades3 ,i agree4        
,,socrates3 ,well1 and did ,pericles    
make any one wise2 did he begin by      
making his sons wise8  ,,alcibiades3    
,but1 ,socrates1 if the two sons of     
,pericles were simpletons1 what has that
 to do with the matter8  ,,socrates3    
,well1 but did he make your brother1    
,cleinias1 wise8  ,,alcibiades3         
,cleinias is a madman2 there is no use  
in talking of him4  ,,socrates3 ,but if 
,cleinias is a madman and the two sons  

of ,pericles were simpletons1 what      
reason can be given why he neglects you1
 and lets you be as you are8            
,,alcibiades3 ,i believe that ,i am to  
blame for not listening to him4         
,,socrates3 ,but did you ever hear of   
any other ,athenian or foreigner1 bond  
or free1 who was deemed to have grown   
wiser in the society of ,pericles1--as  
,i might cite ,pythodorus1 the son of   
,isolochus1 and ,callias1 the son of    
,calliades1 who have grown wiser in the 
society of ,zeno1 for which privilege   
they have each of them paid him the sum 
of a hundred minae 7about #djf pounds   
sterling7 to the increase of their      
wisdom and fame4  ,,alcibiades3 ,i      
certainly never did hear of any one4    
,,socrates3 ,well1 and in reference to  
your own case1 do you mean to remain as 
you are1 or will you take some pains    
about yourself8  ,,alcibiades3 ,with    
your aid1 ,socrates1 ,i will4 ,and      
indeed1 when ,i hear you speak1 the     
truth of what you are saying strikes    

home to me1 and ,i agree with you1 for  
our statesmen1 all but a few1 do appear 
to be quite uneducated4  ,,socrates3    
,what is the inference8  ,,alcibiades3  
,why1 that if they were educated they   
would be trained athletes1 and he who   
means to rival them ought to have       
knowledge and experience when he attacks
 them2 but now1 as they have become     
politicians without any special         
training1 why should ,i have the trouble
 of learning and practising8 ,for ,i    
know well that by the light of nature ,i
 shall get the better of them4          
,,socrates3 ,my dear friend1 what a     
sentiment6 ,and how unworthy of your    
noble form and your high estate6        
,,alcibiades3 ,what do you mean1        
,socrates2 why do you say so8           
,,socrates3 ,i am grieved when ,i think 
of our mutual love4  ,,alcibiades3 ,at  
what8  ,,socrates3 ,at your fancying    
that the contest on which you are       
entering is with people here4           
,,alcibiades3 ,why1 what others are     

there8  ,,socrates3 ,is that a question 
which a magnanimous soul should ask8    
,,alcibiades3 ,do you mean to say that  
the contest is not with these8          
,,socrates3 ,and suppose that you were  
going to steer a ship into action1 would
 you only aim at being the best pilot on
 board8 ,would you not1 while           
acknowledging that you must possess this
 degree of excellence1 rather look to   
your antagonists1 and not1 as you are   
now doing1 to your fellow combatants8   
,you ought to be so far above these     
latter1 that they will not even dare to 
be your rivals2 and1 being regarded by  
you as inferiors1 will do battle for you
 against the enemy2 this is the kind of 
superiority which you must establish    
over them1 if you mean to accomplish any
 noble action really worthy of yourself 
and of the state4  ,,alcibiades3 ,that  
would certainly be my aim4  ,,socrates3 
,verily1 then1 you have good reason to  
be satisfied1 if you are better than the
 soldiers2 and you need not1 when you   

are their superior and have your        
thoughts and actions fixed upon them1   
look away to the generals of the enemy4 
,,alcibiades3 ,of whom are you speaking1
 ,socrates8  ,,socrates3 ,why1 you      
surely know that our city goes to war   
now and then with the ,lacedaemonians   
and with the great king8  ,,alcibiades3 
,true enough4  ,,socrates3 ,and if you  
meant to be the ruler of this city1     
would you not be right in considering   
that the ,lacedaemonian and ,persian    
king were your true rivals8             
,,alcibiades3 ,i believe that you are   
right4  ,,socrates3 ,oh no1 my friend1  
,i am quite wrong1 and ,i think that you
 ought rather to turn your attention to 
,midias the quail-breeder and others    
like him1 who manage our politics2 in   
whom1 as the women would remark1 you may
 still see the slaves' cut of hair1     
cropping out in their minds as well as  
on their pates2 and they come with their
 barbarous lingo to flatter us and not  
to rule us4 ,to these1 ,i say1 you      

should look1 and then you need not      
trouble yourself about your own fitness 
to contend in such a noble arena3 there 
is no reason why you should either learn
 what has to be learned1 or practise    
what has to be practised1 and only when 
thoroughly prepared enter on a political
 career4  ,,alcibiades3 ,there1 ,i      
think1 ,socrates1 that you are right2 ,i
 do not suppose1 however1 that the      
,spartan generals or the great king are 
really different from anybody else4     
,,socrates3 ,but1 my dear friend1 do    
consider what you are saying4           
,,alcibiades3 ,what am ,i to consider8  
,,socrates3 ,in the first place1 will   
you be more likely to take care of      
yourself1 if you are in a wholesome fear
 and dread of them1 or if you are not8  
,,alcibiades3 ,clearly1 if ,i have such 
a fear of them4  ,,socrates3 ,and do you
 think that you will sustain any injury 
if you take care of yourself8           
,,alcibiades3 ,no1 ,i shall be greatly  
benefited4  ,,socrates3 ,and this is one

 very important respect in which that   
notion of yours is bad4  ,,alcibiades3  
,true4  ,,socrates3 ,in the next place1 
consider that what you say is probably  
false4  ,,alcibiades3 ,how so8          
,,socrates3 ,let me ask you whether     
better natures are likely to be found in
 noble races or not in noble races8     
,,alcibiades3 ,clearly in noble races4  
,,socrates3 ,are not those who are well 
born and well bred most likely to be    
perfect in virtue8  ,,alcibiades3       
,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,then let us   
compare our antecedents with those of   
the ,lacedaemonian and ,persian kings2  
are they inferior to us in descent8     
,have we not heard that the former are  
sprung from ,heracles1 and the latter   
from ,achaemenes1 and that the race of  
,heracles and the race of ,achaemenes go
 back to ,perseus1 son of ,zeus8        
,,alcibiades3 ,why1 so does mine go back
 to ,eurysaces1 and he to ,zeus6        
,,socrates3 ,and mine1 noble            
,alcibiades1 to ,daedalus1 and he to    

,hephaestus1 son of ,zeus4 ,but1 for all
 that1 we are far inferior to them4 ,for
 they are descended 'from ,zeus1'       
through a line of kings--either kings of
 ,argos and ,lacedaemon1 or kings of    
,persia1 a country which the descendants
 of ,achaemenes have always possessed1  
besides being at various times          
sovereigns of ,asia1 as they now are2   
whereas1 we and our fathers were but    
private persons4 ,how ridiculous would  
you be thought if you were to make a    
display of your ancestors and of        
,salamis the island of ,eurysaces1 or of
 ,aegina1 the habitation of the still   
more ancient ,aeacus1 before            
,artaxerxes1 son of ,xerxes4 ,you should
 consider how inferior we are to them   
both in the derivation of our birth and 
in other particulars4 ,did you never    
observe how great is the property of the
 ,spartan kings8 ,and their wives are   
under the guardianship of the ,ephori1  
who are public officers and watch over  
them1 in order to preserve as far as    

possible the purity of the ,heracleid   
blood4 ,still greater is the difference 
among the ,persians2 for no one         
entertains a suspicion that the father  
of a prince of ,persia can be any one   
but the king4 ,such is the awe which    
invests the person of the queen1 that   
any other guard is needless4 ,and when  
the heir of the kingdom is born1 all the
 subjects of the king feast2 and the day
 of his birth is for ever afterwards    
kept as a holiday and time of sacrifice 
by all ,asia2 whereas1 when you and ,i  
were born1 ,alcibiades1 as the comic    
poet says1 the neighbours hardly knew of
 the important event4 ,after the birth  
of the royal child1 he is tended1 not by
 a good-for-nothing woman-nurse1 but by 
the best of the royal eunuchs1 who are  
charged with the care of him1 and       
especially with the fashioning and right
 formation of his limbs1 in order that  
he may be as shapely as possible2 which 
being their calling1 they are held in   
great honour4 ,and when the young prince

 is seven years old he is put upon a    
horse and taken to the riding-masters1  
and begins to go out hunting4 ,and at   
fourteen years of age he is handed over 
to the royal schoolmasters1 as they are 
termed3 these are four chosen men1      
reputed to be the best among the        
,persians of a certain age2 and one of  
them is the wisest1 another the justest1
 a third the most temperate1 and a      
fourth the most valiant4 ,the first     
instructs him in the magianism of       
,zoroaster1 the son of ,oromasus1 which 
is the worship of the ,gods1 and teaches
 him also the duties of his royal       
office2 the second1 who is the justest1 
teaches him always to speak the truth2  
the third1 or most temperate1 forbids   
him to allow any pleasure to be lord    
over him1 that he may be accustomed to  
be a freeman and king indeed1--lord of  
himself first1 and not a slave2 the most
 valiant trains him to be bold and      
fearless1 telling him that if he fears  
he is to deem himself a slave2 whereas  

,pericles gave you1 ,alcibiades1 for a  
tutor ,zopyrus the ,thracian1 a slave of
 his who was past all other work4 ,i    
might enlarge on the nurture and        
education of your rivals1 but that would
 be tedious2 and what ,i have said is a 
sufficient sample of what remains to be 
said4 ,i have only to remark1 by way of 
contrast1 that no one cares about your  
birth or nurture or education1 or1 ,i   
may say1 about that of any other        
,athenian1 unless he has a lover who    
looks after him4 ,and if you cast an eye
 on the wealth1 the luxury1 the garments
 with their flowing trains1 the         
anointings with myrrh1 the multitudes of
 attendants1 and all the other bravery  
of the ,persians1 you will be ashamed   
when you discern your own inferiority2  
or if you look at the temperance and    
orderliness and ease and grace and      
magnanimity and courage and endurance   
and love of toil and desire of glory and
 ambition of the ,lacedaemonians--in all
 these respects you will see that you   

are but a child in comparison of them4  
,even in the matter of wealth1 if you   
value yourself upon that1 ,i must reveal
 to you how you stand2 for if you form  
an estimate of the wealth of the        
,lacedaemonians1 you will see that our  
possessions fall far short of theirs4   
,for no one here can compete with them  
either in the extent and fertility of   
their own and the ,messenian territory1 
or in the number of their slaves1 and   
especially of the ,helots1 or of their  
horses1 or of the animals which feed on 
the ,messenian pastures4 ,but ,i have   
said enough of this3 and as to gold and 
silver1 there is more of them in        
,lacedaemon than in all the rest of     
,hellas1 for during many generations    
gold has been always flowing in to them 
from the whole ,hellenic world1 and     
often from the barbarian also1 and never
 going out1 as in the fable of ,aesop   
the fox said to the lion1 ',the prints  
of the feet of those going in are       
distinct enough2' but who ever saw the  

trace of money going out of ,lacedaemon8
 ,and therefore you may safely infer    
that the inhabitants are the richest of 
the ,hellenes in gold and silver1 and   
that their kings are the richest of     
them1 for they have a larger share of   
these things1 and they have also a      
tribute paid to them which is very      
considerable4 ,yet the ,spartan wealth1 
though great in comparison of the wealth
 of the other ,hellenes1 is as nothing  
in comparison of that of the ,persians  
and their kings4 ,why1 ,i have been     
informed by a credible person who went  
up to the king 7at ,susa71 that he      
passed through a large tract of         
excellent land1 extending for nearly a  
day's journey1 which the people of the  
country called the queen's girdle1 and  
another1 which they called her veil2 and
 several other fair and fertile         
districts1 which were reserved for the  
adornment of the queen1 and are named   
after her several habiliments4 ,now1 ,i 
cannot help thinking to myself1 ,what if

 some one were to go to ,amestris1 the  
wife of ,xerxes and mother of           
,artaxerxes1 and say to her1 ,there is a
 certain ,dinomache1 whose whole        
wardrobe is not worth fifty minae--and  
that will be more than the value--and   
she has a son who is possessed of a     
three-hundred acre patch at ,erchiae1   
and he has a mind to go to war with your
 son--would she not wonder to what this 
,alcibiades trusts for success in the   
conflict8 ',he must rely1' she would say
 to herself1 'upon his training and     
wisdom--these are the things which      
,hellenes value4' ,and if she heard that
 this ,alcibiades who is making the     
attempt is not as yet twenty years old1 
and is wholly uneducated1 and when his  
lover tells him that he ought to get    
education and training first1 and then  
go and fight the king1 he refuses1 and  
says that he is well enough as he is1   
would she not be amazed1 and ask ',on   
what1 then1 does the youth rely8' ,and  
if we replied3 ,he relies on his beauty1

 and stature1 and birth1 and mental     
endowments1 she would think that we were
 mad1 ,alcibiades1 when she compared the
 advantages which you possess with those
 of her own people4 ,and ,i believe that
 even ,lampido1 the daughter of         
,leotychides1 the wife of ,archidamus   
and mother of ,agis1 all of whom were   
kings1 would have the same feeling2 if1 
in your present uneducated state1 you   
were to turn your thoughts against her  
son1 she too would be equally           
astonished4 ,but how disgraceful1 that  
we should not have as high a notion of  
what is required in us as our enemies'  
wives and mothers have of the qualities 
which are required in their assailants6 
,o my friend1 be persuaded by me1 and   
hear the ,delphian inscription1 ',know  
thyself'--not the men whom you think1   
but these kings are our rivals1 and we  
can only overcome them by pains and     
skill4 ,and if you fail in the required 
qualities1 you will fail also in        
becoming renowned among ,hellenes and   

,barbarians1 which you seem to desire   
more than any other man ever desired    
anything4  ,,alcibiades3 ,i entirely    
believe you2 but what are the sort of   
pains which are required1               
,socrates1--can you tell me8            
,,socrates3 ,yes1 ,i can2 but we must   
take counsel together concerning the    
manner in which both of us may be most  
improved4 ,for what ,i am telling you of
 the necessity of education applies to  
myself as well as to you2 and there is  
only one point in which ,i have an      
advantage over you4  ,,alcibiades3 ,what
 is that8  ,,socrates3 ,i have a        
guardian who is better and wiser than   
your guardian1 ,pericles4  ,,alcibiades3
 ,who is he1 ,socrates8  ,,socrates3    
,god1 ,alcibiades1 who up to this day   
has not allowed me to converse with you2
 and he inspires in me the faith that ,i
 am especially designed to bring you to 
honour4  ,,alcibiades3 ,you are jesting1
 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,perhaps1 at   
any rate1 ,i am right in saying that all

 men greatly need pains and care1 and   
you and ,i above all men4  ,,alcibiades3
 ,you are not far wrong about me4       
,,socrates3 ,and certainly not about    
myself4  ,,alcibiades3 ,but what can we 
do8  ,,socrates3 ,there must be no      
hesitation or cowardice1 my friend4     
,,alcibiades3 ,that would not become us1
 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,no1 indeed1   
and we ought to take counsel together3  
for do we not wish to be as good as     
possible8  ,,alcibiades3 ,we do4        
,,socrates3 ,in what sort of virtue8    
,,alcibiades3 ,plainly1 in the virtue of
 good men4  ,,socrates3 ,who are good in
 what8  ,,alcibiades3 ,those1 clearly1  
who are good in the management of       
affairs4  ,,socrates3 ,what sort of     
affairs8 ,equestrian affairs8           
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly not4           
,,socrates3 ,you mean that about them we
 should have recourse to horsemen8      
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,well1 
naval affairs8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no4      
,,socrates3 ,you mean that we should    

have recourse to sailors about them8    
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,then  
what affairs8 ,and who do them8         
,,alcibiades3 ,the affairs which occupy 
,athenian gentlemen4  ,,socrates3 ,and  
when you speak of gentlemen1 do you mean
 the wise or the unwise8  ,,alcibiades3 
,the wise4  ,,socrates3 ,and a man is   
good in respect of that in which he is  
wise8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 
,and evil in respect of that in which he
 is unwise8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4  
,,socrates3 ,the shoemaker1 for example1
 is wise in respect of the making of    
shoes8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3
 ,then he is good in that8              
,,alcibiades3 ,he is4  ,,socrates3 ,but 
in respect of the making of garments he 
is unwise8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4         
,,socrates3 ,then in that he is bad8    
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,then  
upon this view of the matter the same   
man is good and also bad8  ,,alcibiades3
 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,but would you say 
that the good are the same as the bad8  

,,alcibiades3 ,certainly not4           
,,socrates3 ,then whom do you call the  
good8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i mean by the good
 those who are able to rule in the city4
  ,,socrates3 ,not1 surely1 over horses8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly not4         
,,socrates3 ,but over men8              
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,when  
they are sick8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no4      
,,socrates3 ,or on a voyage8            
,,alcibiades3 ,no4  ,,socrates3 ,or     
reaping the harvest8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no4
  ,,socrates3 ,when they are doing      
something or nothing8  ,,alcibiades3    
,when they are doing something1 ,i      
should say4  ,,socrates3 ,i wish that   
you would explain to me what this       
something is4  ,,alcibiades3 ,when they 
are having dealings with one another1   
and using one another's services1 as we 
citizens do in our daily life4          
,,socrates3 ,those of whom you speak are
 ruling over men who are using the      
services of other men8  ,,alcibiades3   
,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,are they ruling over

 the signal-men who give the time to the
 rowers8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no2 they are   
not4  ,,socrates3 ,that would be the    
office of the pilot8  ,,alcibiades3     
,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,but1 perhaps you    
mean that they rule over flute-players1 
who lead the singers and use the        
services of the dancers8  ,,alcibiades3 
,certainly not4  ,,socrates3 ,that would
 be the business of the teacher of the  
chorus8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4            
,,socrates3 ,then what is the meaning of
 being able to rule over men who use    
other men8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i mean that  
they rule over men who have common      
rights of citizenship1 and dealings with
 one another4  ,,socrates3 ,and what    
sort of an art is this8 ,suppose that ,i
 ask you again1 as ,i did just now1     
,what art makes men know how to rule    
over their fellow-sailors1--how would   
you answer8  ,,alcibiades3 ,the art of  
the pilot4  ,,socrates3 ,and1 if ,i may 
recur to another old instance1 what art 
enables them to rule over their         

fellow-singers8  ,,alcibiades3 ,the art 
of the teacher of the chorus1 which you 
were just now mentioning4  ,,socrates3  
,and what do you call the art of        
fellow-citizens8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i      
should say1 good counsel1 ,socrates4    
,,socrates3 ,and is the art of the pilot
 evil counsel8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no4      
,,socrates3 ,but good counsel8          
,,alcibiades3 ,yes1 that is what ,i     
should say1--good counsel1 of which the 
aim is the preservation of the voyagers4
  ,,socrates3 ,true4 ,and what is the   
aim of that other good counsel of which 
you speak8  ,,alcibiades3 ,the aim is   
the better order and preservation of the
 city4  ,,socrates3 ,and what is that of
 which the absence or presence improves 
and preserves the order of the city8    
,suppose you were to ask me1 what is    
that of which the presence or absence   
improves or preserves the order of the  
body8 ,i should reply1 the presence of  
health and the absence of disease4 ,you 
would say the same8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4

  ,,socrates3 ,and if you were to ask me
 the same question about the eyes1 ,i   
should reply in the same way1 'the      
presence of sight and the absence of    
blindness2' or about the ears1 ,i should
 reply1 that they were improved and were
 in better case1 when deafness was      
absent1 and hearing was present in them4
  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,and
 what would you say of a state8 ,what is
 that by the presence or absence of     
which the state is improved and better  
managed and ordered8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i  
should say1 ,socrates3--the presence of 
friendship and the absence of hatred and
 division4  ,,socrates3 ,and do you mean
 by friendship agreement or             
disagreement8  ,,alcibiades3 ,agreement4
  ,,socrates3 ,what art makes cities    
agree about numbers8  ,,alcibiades3     
,arithmetic4  ,,socrates3 ,and private  
individuals8  ,,alcibiades3 ,the same4  
,,socrates3 ,and what art makes each    
individual agree with himself8          
,,alcibiades3 ,the same4  ,,socrates3   

,and what art makes each of us agree    
with himself about the comparative      
length of the span and of the cubit8    
,does not the art of measure8           
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3        
,individuals are agreed with one another
 about this2 and states1 equally8       
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
the same holds of the balance8          
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,but  
what is the other agreement of which you
 speak1 and about what8 what art can    
give that agreement8 ,and does that     
which gives it to the state give it also
 to the individual1 so as to make him   
consistent with himself and with        
another8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i should       
suppose so4  ,,socrates3 ,but what is   
the nature of the agreement8--answer1   
and faint not4  ,,alcibiades3 ,i mean to
 say that there should be such          
friendship and agreement as exists      
between an affectionate father and      
mother and their son1 or between        
brothers1 or between husband and wife4  

,,socrates3 ,but can a man1 ,alcibiades1
 agree with a woman about the spinning  
of wool1 which she understands and he   
does not8  ,,alcibiades3 ,no1 truly4    
,,socrates3 ,nor has he any need1 for   
spinning is a female accomplishment4    
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
would a woman agree with a man about the
 science of arms1 which she has never   
learned8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly not4 
,,socrates3 ,i suppose that the use of  
arms would be regarded by you as a male 
accomplishment8  ,,alcibiades3 ,it      
would4  ,,socrates3 ,then1 upon your    
view1 women and men have two sorts of   
knowledge8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4   
,,socrates3 ,then in their knowledge    
there is no agreement of women and men8 
,,alcibiades3 ,there is not4            
,,socrates3 ,nor can there be           
friendship1 if friendship is agreement8 
,,alcibiades3 ,plainly not4  ,,socrates3
 ,then women are not loved by men when  
they do their own work8  ,,alcibiades3  
,i suppose not4  ,,socrates3 ,nor men by

 women when they do their own work8     
,,alcibiades3 ,no4  ,,socrates3 ,nor are
 states well administered1 when         
individuals do their own work8          
,,alcibiades3 ,i should rather think1   
,socrates1 that the reverse is the      
truth4 7,compare ,republic47            
,,socrates3 ,what6 do you mean to say   
that states are well administered when  
friendship is absent1 the presence of   
which1 as we were saying1 alone secures 
their good order8  ,,alcibiades3 ,but ,i
 should say that there is friendship    
among them1 for this very reason1 that  
the two parties respectively do their   
own work4  ,,socrates3 ,that was not    
what you were saying before2 and what do
 you mean now by affirming that         
friendship exists when there is no      
agreement8 ,how can there be agreement  
about matters which the one party knows1
 and of which the other is in ignorance8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,impossible4            
,,socrates3 ,and when individuals are   
doing their own work1 are they doing    

what is just or unjust8  ,,alcibiades3  
,what is just1 certainly4  ,,socrates3  
,and when individuals do what is just in
 the state1 is there no friendship among
 them8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i suppose that   
there must be1 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3  
,then what do you mean by this          
friendship or agreement about which we  
must be wise and discreet in order that 
we may be good men8 ,i cannot make out  
where it exists or among whom2 according
 to you1 the same persons may sometimes 
have it1 and sometimes not4             
,,alcibiades3 ,but1 indeed1 ,socrates1  
,i do not know what ,i am saying2 and ,i
 have long been1 unconsciously to       
myself1 in a most disgraceful state4    
,,socrates3 ,nevertheless1 cheer up2 at 
fifty1 if you had discovered your       
deficiency1 you would have been too old1
 and the time for taking care of        
yourself would have passed away1 but    
yours is just the age at which the      
discovery should be made4  ,,alcibiades3
 ,and what should he do1 ,socrates1 who 

would make the discovery8  ,,socrates3  
,answer questions1 ,alcibiades2 and that
 is a process which1 by the grace of    
,god1 if ,i may put any faith in my     
oracle1 will be very improving to both  
of us4  ,,alcibiades3 ,if ,i can be     
improved by answering1 ,i will answer4  
,,socrates3 ,and first of all1 that we  
may not peradventure be deceived by     
appearances1 fancying1 perhaps1 that we 
are taking care of ourselves when we are
 not1 what is the meaning of a man      
taking care of himself8 and when does he
 take care8 ,does he take care of       
himself when he takes care of what      
belongs to him8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i should
 think so4  ,,socrates3 ,when does a man
 take care of his feet8 ,does he not    
take care of them when he takes care of 
that which belongs to his feet8         
,,alcibiades3 ,i do not understand4     
,,socrates3 ,let me take the hand as an 
illustration2 does not a ring belong to 
the finger1 and to the finger only8     
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   

the shoe in like manner to the foot8    
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
when we take care of our shoes1 do we   
not take care of our feet8              
,,alcibiades3 ,i do not comprehend1     
,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,but you would  
admit1 ,alcibiades1 that to take proper 
care of a thing is a correct expression8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and 
taking proper care means improving8     
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
what is the art which improves our      
shoes8  ,,alcibiades3 ,shoemaking4      
,,socrates3 ,then by shoemaking we take 
care of our shoes8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4 
,,socrates3 ,and do we by shoemaking    
take care of our feet1 or by some other 
art which improves the feet8            
,,alcibiades3 ,by some other art4       
,,socrates3 ,and the same art improves  
the feet which improves the rest of the 
body8  ,,alcibiades3 ,very true4        
,,socrates3 ,which is gymnastic8        
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4  ,,socrates3  
,then by gymnastic we take care of our  

feet1 and by shoemaking of that which   
belongs to our feet8  ,,alcibiades3     
,very true4  ,,socrates3 ,and by        
gymnastic we take care of our hands1 and
 by the art of graving rings of that    
which belongs to our hands8             
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and by
 gymnastic we take care of the body1 and
 by the art of weaving and the other    
arts we take care of the things of the  
body8  ,,alcibiades3 ,clearly4          
,,socrates3 ,then the art which takes   
care of each thing is different from    
that which takes care of the belongings 
of each thing8  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4    
,,socrates3 ,then in taking care of what
 belongs to you1 you do not take care of
 yourself8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly    
not4  ,,socrates3 ,for the art which    
takes care of our belongings appears not
 to be the same as that which takes care
 of ourselves8  ,,alcibiades3 ,clearly  
not4  ,,socrates3 ,and now let me ask   
you what is the art with which we take  
care of ourselves8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i    

cannot say4  ,,socrates3 ,at any rate1  
thus much has been admitted1 that the   
art is not one which makes any of our   
possessions1 but which makes ourselves  
better8  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4           
,,socrates3 ,but should we ever have    
known what art makes a shoe better1 if  
we did not know a shoe8  ,,alcibiades3  
,impossible4  ,,socrates3 ,nor should we
 know what art makes a ring better1 if  
we did not know a ring8  ,,alcibiades3  
,that is true4  ,,socrates3 ,and can we 
ever know what art makes a man better1  
if we do not know what we are ourselves8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,impossible4            
,,socrates3 ,and is self-knowledge such 
an easy thing1 and was he to be lightly 
esteemed who inscribed the text on the  
temple at ,delphi8 ,or is self-knowledge
 a difficult thing1 which few are able  
to attain8  ,,alcibiades3 ,at times ,i  
fancy1 ,socrates1 that anybody can know 
himself2 at other times the task appears
 to be very difficult4  ,,socrates3 ,but
 whether easy or difficult1 ,alcibiades1

 still there is no other way2 knowing   
what we are1 we shall know how to take  
care of ourselves1 and if we are        
ignorant we shall not know4             
,,alcibiades3 ,that is true4            
,,socrates3 ,well1 then1 let us see in  
what way the self-existent can be       
discovered by us2 that will give us a   
chance of discovering our own existence1
 which otherwise we can never know4     
,,alcibiades3 ,you say truly4           
,,socrates3 ,come1 now1 ,i beseech you1 
tell me with whom you are               
conversing8--with whom but with me8     
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,as ,i 
am1 with you8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4      
,,socrates3 ,that is to say1 ,i1        
,socrates1 am talking8  ,,alcibiades3   
,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and ,alcibiades is  
my hearer8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4         
,,socrates3 ,and ,i in talking use      
words8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4       
,,socrates3 ,and talking and using words
 have1 ,i suppose1 the same meaning8    
,,alcibiades3 ,to be sure4  ,,socrates3 

,and the user is not the same as the    
thing which he uses8  ,,alcibiades3     
,what do you mean8  ,,socrates3 ,i will 
explain2 the shoemaker1 for example1    
uses a square tool1 and a circular tool1
 and other tools for cutting8           
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,but   
the tool is not the same as the cutter  
and user of the tool8  ,,alcibiades3 ,of
 course not4  ,,socrates3 ,and in the   
same way the instrument of the harper is
 to be distinguished from the harper    
himself8  ,,alcibiades3 ,it is4         
,,socrates3 ,now the question which ,i  
asked was whether you conceive the user 
to be always different from that which  
he uses8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i do4          
,,socrates3 ,then what shall we say of  
the shoemaker8 ,does he cut with his    
tools only or with his hands8           
,,alcibiades3 ,with his hands as well4  
,,socrates3 ,he uses his hands too8     
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and   
does he use his eyes in cutting leather8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,he does4  ,,socrates3  

,and we admit that the user is not the  
same with the things which he uses8     
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,then  
the shoemaker and the harper are to be  
distinguished from the hands and feet   
which they use8  ,,alcibiades3 ,clearly4
  ,,socrates3 ,and does not a man use   
the whole body8  ,,alcibiades3          
,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,and that which
 uses is different from that which is   
used8  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3
 ,then a man is not the same as his own 
body8  ,,alcibiades3 ,that is the       
inference4  ,,socrates3 ,what is he1    
then8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i cannot say4     
,,socrates3 ,nay1 you can say that he is
 the user of the body4  ,,alcibiades3   
,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and the user of the 
body is the soul8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes1  
the soul4  ,,socrates3 ,and the soul    
rules8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3
 ,let me make an assertion which will1  
,i think1 be universally admitted4      
,,alcibiades3 ,what is it8  ,,socrates3 
,that man is one of three things4       

,,alcibiades3 ,what are they8           
,,socrates3 ,soul1 body1 or both        
together forming a whole4  ,,alcibiades3
 ,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,but did we   
not say that the actual ruling principle
 of the body is man8  ,,alcibiades3     
,yes1 we did4  ,,socrates3 ,and does the
 body rule over itself8  ,,alcibiades3  
,certainly not4  ,,socrates3 ,it is     
subject1 as we were saying8             
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,then  
that is not the principle which we are  
seeking8  ,,alcibiades3 ,it would seem  
not4  ,,socrates3 ,but may we say that  
the union of the two rules over the     
body1 and consequently that this is man8
  ,,alcibiades3 ,very likely4           
,,socrates3 ,the most unlikely of all   
things2 for if one of the members is    
subject1 the two united cannot possibly 
rule4  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3
 ,but since neither the body1 nor the   
union of the two1 is man1 either man has
 no real existence1 or the soul is man8 
,,alcibiades3 ,just so4  ,,socrates3 ,is

 anything more required to prove that   
the soul is man8  ,,alcibiades3         
,certainly not2 the proof is1 ,i think1 
quite sufficient4  ,,socrates3 ,and if  
the proof1 although not perfect1 be     
sufficient1 we shall be satisfied2--more
 precise proof will be supplied when we 
have discovered that which we were led  
to omit1 from a fear that the enquiry   
would be too much protracted4           
,,alcibiades3 ,what was that8           
,,socrates3 ,what ,i meant1 when ,i said
 that absolute existence must be first  
considered2 but now1 instead of absolute
 existence1 we have been considering the
 nature of individual existence1 and    
this may1 perhaps1 be sufficient2 for   
surely there is nothing which may be    
called more properly ourselves than the 
soul8  ,,alcibiades3 ,there is nothing4 
,,socrates3 ,then we may truly conceive 
that you and ,i are conversing with one 
another1 soul to soul8  ,,alcibiades3   
,very true4  ,,socrates3 ,and that is   
just what ,i was saying before--that ,i1

 ,socrates1 am not arguing or talking   
with the face of ,alcibiades1 but with  
the real ,alcibiades2 or in other words1
 with his soul4  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4   
,,socrates3 ,then he who bids a man know
 himself1 would have him know his soul8 
,,alcibiades3 ,that appears to be true4 
,,socrates3 ,he whose knowledge only    
extends to the body1 knows the things of
 a man1 and not the man himself8        
,,alcibiades3 ,that is true4            
,,socrates3 ,then neither the physician 
regarded as a physician1 nor the trainer
 regarded as a trainer1 knows himself8  
,,alcibiades3 ,he does not4  ,,socrates3
 ,the husbandmen and the other craftsmen
 are very far from knowing themselves1  
for they would seem not even to know    
their own belongings8 ,when regarded in 
relation to the arts which they practise
 they are even further removed from     
self-knowledge1 for they only know the  
belongings of the body1 which minister  
to the body4  ,,alcibiades3 ,that is    
true4  ,,socrates3 ,then if temperance  

is the knowledge of self1 in respect of 
his art none of them is temperate8      
,,alcibiades3 ,i agree4  ,,socrates3    
,and this is the reason why their arts  
are accounted vulgar1 and are not such  
as a good man would practise8           
,,alcibiades3 ,quite true4  ,,socrates3 
,again1 he who cherishes his body       
cherishes not himself1 but what belongs 
to him8  ,,alcibiades3 ,that is true4   
,,socrates3 ,but he who cherishes his   
money1 cherishes neither himself nor his
 belongings1 but is in a stage yet      
further removed from himself8           
,,alcibiades3 ,i agree4  ,,socrates3    
,then the money-maker has really ceased 
to be occupied with his own concerns8   
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,and  
if any one has fallen in love with the  
person of ,alcibiades1 he loves not     
,alcibiades1 but the belongings of      
,alcibiades8  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4      
,,socrates3 ,but he who loves your soul 
is the true lover8  ,,alcibiades3 ,that 
is the necessary inference4  ,,socrates3

 ,the lover of the body goes away when  
the flower of youth fades8              
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,but  
he who loves the soul goes not away1 as 
long as the soul follows after virtue8  
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and ,i
 am the lover who goes not away1 but    
remains with you1 when you are no longer
 young and the rest are gone8           
,,alcibiades3 ,yes1 ,socrates2 and      
therein you do well1 and ,i hope that   
you will remain4  ,,socrates3 ,then you 
must try to look your best4             
,,alcibiades3 ,i will4  ,,socrates3 ,the
 fact is1 that there is only one lover  
of ,alcibiades the son of ,cleinias2    
there neither is nor ever has been      
seemingly any other2 and he is his      
darling1--,socrates1 the son of         
,sophroniscus and ,phaenarete4          
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,and  
did you not say1 that if ,i had not     
spoken first1 you were on the point of  
coming to me1 and enquiring why ,i only 
remained8  ,,alcibiades3 ,that is true4 

,,socrates3 ,the reason was that ,i     
loved you for your own sake1 whereas    
other men love what belongs to you2 and 
your beauty1 which is not you1 is fading
 away1 just as your true self is        
beginning to bloom4 ,and ,i will never  
desert you1 if you are not spoiled and  
deformed by the ,athenian people2 for   
the danger which ,i most fear is that   
you will become a lover of the people   
and will be spoiled by them4 ,many a    
noble ,athenian has been ruined in this 
way4 ,for the demus of the great-hearted
 ,erechteus is of a fair countenance1   
but you should see him naked2 wherefore 
observe the caution which ,i give you4  
,,alcibiades3 ,what caution8            
,,socrates3 ,practise yourself1 sweet   
friend1 in learning what you ought to   
know1 before you enter on politics2 and 
then you will have an antidote which    
will keep you out of harm's way4        
,,alcibiades3 ,good advice1 ,socrates1  
but ,i wish that you would explain to me
 in what way ,i am to take care of      

myself4  ,,socrates3 ,have we not made  
an advance8 for we are at any rate      
tolerably well agreed as to what we are1
 and there is no longer any danger1 as  
we once feared1 that we might be taking 
care not of ourselves1 but of something 
which is not ourselves4  ,,alcibiades3  
,that is true4  ,,socrates3 ,and the    
next step will be to take care of the   
soul1 and look to that8  ,,alcibiades3  
,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,leaving the   
care of our bodies and of our properties
 to others8  ,,alcibiades3 ,very good4  
,,socrates3 ,but how can we have a      
perfect knowledge of the things of the  
soul8--,for if we know them1 then ,i    
suppose we shall know ourselves4 ,can we
 really be ignorant of the excellent    
meaning of the ,delphian inscription1 of
 which we were just now speaking8       
,,alcibiades3 ,what have you in your    
thoughts1 ,socrates8  ,,socrates3 ,i    
will tell you what ,i suspect to be the 
meaning and lesson of that inscription4 
,let me take an illustration from sight1

 which ,i imagine to be the only one    
suitable to my purpose4  ,,alcibiades3  
,what do you mean8  ,,socrates3         
,consider2 if some one were to say to   
the eye1 ',see thyself1' as you might   
say to a man1 ',know thyself1' what is  
the nature and meaning of this precept8 
,would not his meaning be3--,that the   
eye should look at that in which it     
would see itself8  ,,alcibiades3        
,clearly4  ,,socrates3 ,and what are the
 objects in looking at which we see     
ourselves8  ,,alcibiades3 ,clearly1     
,socrates1 in looking at mirrors and the
 like4  ,,socrates3 ,very true2 and is  
there not something of the nature of a  
mirror in our own eyes8  ,,alcibiades3  
,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,did you ever  
observe that the face of the person     
looking into the eye of another is      
reflected as in a mirror2 and in the    
visual organ which is over against him1 
and which is called the pupil1 there is 
a sort of image of the person looking8  
,,alcibiades3 ,that is quite true4      

,,socrates3 ,then the eye1 looking at   
another eye1 and at that in the eye     
which is most perfect1 and which is the 
instrument of vision1 will there see    
itself8  ,,alcibiades3 ,that is evident4
  ,,socrates3 ,but looking at anything  
else either in man or in the world1 and 
not to what resembles this1 it will not 
see itself8  ,,alcibiades3 ,very true4  
,,socrates3 ,then if the eye is to see  
itself1 it must look at the eye1 and at 
that part of the eye where sight which  
is the virtue of the eye resides8       
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,and  
if the soul1 my dear ,alcibiades1 is    
ever to know herself1 must she not look 
at the soul2 and especially at that part
 of the soul in which her virtue        
resides1 and to any other which is like 
this8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i agree1          
,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,and do we know 
of any part of our souls more divine    
than that which has to do with wisdom   
and knowledge8  ,,alcibiades3 ,there is 
none4  ,,socrates3 ,then this is that   

part of the soul which resembles the    
divine2 and he who looks at this and at 
the whole class of things divine1 will  
be most likely to know himself8         
,,alcibiades3 ,clearly4  ,,socrates3    
,and self-knowledge we agree to be      
wisdom8  ,,alcibiades3 ,true4           
,,socrates3 ,but if we have no          
self-knowledge and no wisdom1 can we    
ever know our own good and evil8        
,,alcibiades3 ,how can we1 ,socrates8   
,,socrates3 ,you mean1 that if you did  
not know ,alcibiades1 there would be no 
possibility of your knowing that what   
belonged to ,alcibiades was really his8 
,,alcibiades3 ,it would be quite        
impossible4  ,,socrates3 ,nor should we 
know that we were the persons to whom   
anything belonged1 if we did not know   
ourselves8  ,,alcibiades3 ,how could we8
  ,,socrates3 ,and if we did not know   
our own belongings1 neither should we   
know the belongings of our belongings8  
,,alcibiades3 ,clearly not4  ,,socrates3
 ,then we were not altogether right in  

acknowledging just now that a man may   
know what belongs to him and yet not    
know himself2 nay1 rather he cannot even
 know the belongings of his belongings2 
for the discernment of the things of    
self1 and of the things which belong to 
the things of self1 appear all to be the
 business of the same man1 and of the   
same art4  ,,alcibiades3 ,so much may be
 supposed4  ,,socrates3 ,and he who     
knows not the things which belong to    
himself1 will in like manner be ignorant
 of the things which belong to others8  
,,alcibiades3 ,very true4  ,,socrates3  
,and if he knows not the affairs of     
others1 he will not know the affairs of 
states8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly not4  
,,socrates3 ,then such a man can never  
be a statesman8  ,,alcibiades3 ,he      
cannot4  ,,socrates3 ,nor an economist8 
,,alcibiades3 ,he cannot4  ,,socrates3  
,he will not know what he is doing8     
,,alcibiades3 ,he will not4  ,,socrates3
 ,and will not he who is ignorant fall  
into error8  ,,alcibiades3 ,assuredly4  

,,socrates3 ,and if he falls into error 
will he not fail both in his public and 
private capacity8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes1  
indeed4  ,,socrates3 ,and failing1 will 
he not be miserable8  ,,alcibiades3     
,very4  ,,socrates3 ,and what will      
become of those for whom he is acting8  
,,alcibiades3 ,they will be miserable   
also4  ,,socrates3 ,then he who is not  
wise and good cannot be happy8          
,,alcibiades3 ,he cannot4  ,,socrates3  
,the bad1 then1 are miserable8          
,,alcibiades3 ,yes1 very4  ,,socrates3  
,and if so1 not he who has riches1 but  
he who has wisdom1 is delivered from his
 misery8  ,,alcibiades3 ,clearly4       
,,socrates3 ,cities1 then1 if they are  
to be happy1 do not want walls1 or      
triremes1 or docks1 or numbers1 or size1
 ,alcibiades1 without virtue8 7,compare 
,arist4 ,pol47  ,,alcibiades3 ,indeed   
they do not4  ,,socrates3 ,and you must 
give the citizens virtue1 if you mean to
 administer their affairs rightly or    
nobly8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4       

,,socrates3 ,but can a man give that    
which he has not8  ,,alcibiades3        
,impossible4  ,,socrates3 ,then you or  
any one who means to govern and         
superintend1 not only himself and the   
things of himself1 but the state and the
 things of the state1 must in the first 
place acquire virtue4  ,,alcibiades3    
,that is true4  ,,socrates3 ,you have   
not therefore to obtain power or        
authority1 in order to enable you to do 
what you wish for yourself and the      
state1 but justice and wisdom4          
,,alcibiades3 ,clearly4  ,,socrates3    
,you and the state1 if you act wisely   
and justly1 will act according to the   
will of ,god8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4
  ,,socrates3 ,as ,i was saying before1 
you will look only at what is bright and
 divine1 and act with a view to them8   
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,in    
that mirror you will see and know       
yourselves and your own good8           
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and so
 you will act rightly and well8         

,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,in    
which case1 ,i will be security for your
 happiness4  ,,alcibiades3 ,i accept the
 security4  ,,socrates3 ,but if you act 
unrighteously1 your eye will turn to the
 dark and godless1 and being in darkness
 and ignorance of yourselves1 you will  
probably do deeds of darkness4          
,,alcibiades3 ,very possibly4           
,,socrates3 ,for if a man1 my dear      
,alcibiades1 has the power to do what he
 likes1 but has no understanding1 what  
is likely to be the result1 either to   
him as an individual or to the          
state--for example1 if he be sick and is
 able to do what he likes1 not having   
the mind of a physician--having moreover
 tyrannical power1 and no one daring to 
reprove him1 what will happen to him8   
,will he not be likely to have his      
constitution ruined8  ,,alcibiades3     
,that is true4  ,,socrates3 ,or again1  
in a ship1 if a man having the power to 
do what he likes1 has no intelligence or
 skill in navigation1 do you see what   

will happen to him and to his           
fellow-sailors8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes2 ,i 
see that they will all perish4          
,,socrates3 ,and in like manner1 in a   
state1 and where there is any power and 
authority which is wanting in virtue1   
will not misfortune1 in like manner1    
ensue8  ,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4       
,,socrates3 ,not tyrannical power1 then1
 my good ,alcibiades1 should be the aim 
either of individuals or states1 if they
 would be happy1 but virtue4            
,,alcibiades3 ,that is true4            
,,socrates3 ,and before they have       
virtue1 to be commanded by a superior is
 better for men as well as for children8
 7,compare ,arist4 ,pol47  ,,alcibiades3
 ,that is evident4  ,,socrates3 ,and    
that which is better is also nobler8    
,,alcibiades3 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,and  
what is nobler is more becoming8        
,,alcibiades3 ,certainly4  ,,socrates3  
,then to the bad man slavery is more    
becoming1 because better8  ,,alcibiades3
 ,true4  ,,socrates3 ,then vice is only 

suited to a slave8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes4 
,,socrates3 ,and virtue to a freeman8   
,,alcibiades3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and1  
,o my friend1 is not the condition of a 
slave to be avoided8  ,,alcibiades3     
,certainly1 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,and
 are you now conscious of your own      
state8 ,and do you know whether you are 
a freeman or not8  ,,alcibiades3 ,i     
think that ,i am very conscious indeed  
of my own state4  ,,socrates3 ,and do   
you know how to escape out of a state   
which ,i do not even like to name to my 
beauty8  ,,alcibiades3 ,yes1 ,i do4     
,,socrates3 ,how8  ,,alcibiades3 ,by    
your help1 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,that
 is not well said1 ,alcibiades4         
,,alcibiades3 ,what ought ,i to have    
said8  ,,socrates3 ,by the help of ,god4
  ,,alcibiades3 ,i agree2 and ,i further
 say1 that our relations are likely to  
be reversed4 ,from this day forward1 ,i 
must and will follow you as you have    
followed me2 ,i will be the disciple1   
and you shall be my master4  ,,socrates3

 ,o that is rare6 ,my love breeds       
another love3 and so like the stork ,i  
shall be cherished by the bird whom ,i  
have hatched4  ,,alcibiades3 ,strange1  
but true2 and henceforward ,i shall     
begin to think about justice4           
,,socrates3 ,and ,i hope that you will  
persist2 although ,i have fears1 not    
because ,i doubt you2 but ,i see the    
power of the state1 which may be too    
much for both of us4