,,euthydemus  by ,plato   ,translated by
 ,benjamin ,jowett      ,,introduction4 
,the ,euthydemus1 though apt to be      
regarded by us only as an elaborate     
jest1 has also a very serious purpose4  
,it may fairly claim to be the oldest   
treatise on logic2 for that science     
originates in the misunderstandings     
which necessarily accompany the first   
efforts of speculation4 ,several of the 
fallacies which are satirized in it     
reappear in the ,sophistici ,elenchi of 
,aristotle and are retained at the end  
of our manuals of logic4 ,but if the    
order of history were followed1 they    
should be placed not at the end but at  
the beginning of them2 for they belong  
to the age in which the human mind was  
first making the attempt to distinguish 
thought from sense1 and to separate the 
universal from the particular or        
individual4 ,how to put together words  
or ideas1 how to escape ambiguities in  
the meaning of terms or in the structure
 of propositions1 how to resist the     

fixed impression of an 'eternal being'  
or 'perpetual flux1' how to distinguish 
between words and things--these were    
problems not easy of solution in the    
infancy of philosophy4 ,they presented  
the same kind of difficulty to the      
half-educated man which spelling or     
arithmetic do to the mind of a child4   
,it was long before the new world of    
ideas which had been sought after with  
such passionate yearning was set in     
order and made ready for use4 ,to us the
 fallacies which arise in the           
pre-,socratic philosophy are trivial and
 obsolete because we are no longer      
liable to fall into the errors which are
 expressed by them4 ,the intellectual   
world has become better assured to us1  
and we are less likely to be imposed    
upon by illusions of words4  ,the logic 
of ,aristotle is for the most part      
latent in the dialogues of ,plato4 ,the 
nature of definition is explained not by
 rules but by examples in the           
,charmides1 ,lysis1 ,laches1            

,protagoras1 ,meno1 ,euthyphro1         
,theaetetus1 ,gorgias1 ,republic2 the   
nature of division is likewise          
illustrated by examples in the ,sophist 
and ,statesman2 a scheme of categories  
is found in the ,philebus2 the true     
doctrine of contradiction is taught1 and
 the fallacy of arguing in a circle is  
exposed in the ,republic2 the nature of 
synthesis and analysis is graphically   
described in the ,phaedrus2 the nature  
of words is analysed in the ,cratylus2  
the form of the syllogism is indicated  
in the genealogical trees of the        
,sophist and ,statesman2 a true doctrine
 of predication and an analysis of the  
sentence are given in the ,sophist2 the 
different meanings of one and being are 
worked out in the ,parmenides4 ,here we 
have most of the important elements of  
logic1 not yet systematized or reduced  
to an art or science1 but scattered up  
and down as they would naturally occur  
in ordinary discourse4 ,they are of     
little or no use or significance to us2 

but because we have grown out of the    
need of them we should not therefore    
despise them4 ,they are still           
interesting and instructive for the     
light which they shed on the history of 
the human mind4  ,there are indeed many 
old fallacies which linger among us1 and
 new ones are constantly springing up4  
,but they are not of the kind to which  
ancient logic can be usefully applied4  
,the weapons of common sense1 not the   
analytics of ,aristotle1 are needed for 
their overthrow4 ,nor is the use of the 
,aristotelian logic any longer natural  
to us4 ,we no longer put arguments into 
the form of syllogisms like the         
schoolmen2 the simple use of language   
has been1 happily1 restored to us4      
,neither do we discuss the nature of the
 proposition1 nor extract hidden truths 
from the copula1 nor dispute any longer 
about nominalism and realism4 ,we do not
 confuse the form with the matter of    
knowledge1 or invent laws of thought1 or
 imagine that any single science        

furnishes a principle of reasoning to   
all the rest4 ,neither do we require    
categories or heads of argument to be   
invented for our use4 ,those who have no
 knowledge of logic1 like some of our   
great physical philosophers1 seem to be 
quite as good reasoners as those who    
have4 ,most of the ancient puzzles have 
been settled on the basis of usage and  
common sense2 there is no need to reopen
 them4 ,no science should raise problems
 or invent forms of thought which add   
nothing to knowledge and are of no use  
in assisting the acquisition of it4     
,this seems to be the natural limit of  
logic and metaphysics2 if they give us a
 more comprehensive or a more definite  
view of the different spheres of        
knowledge they are to be studied2 if    
not1 not4 ,the better part of ancient   
logic appears hardly in our own day to  
have a separate existence2 it is        
absorbed in two other sciences3 7#a7    
rhetoric1 if indeed this ancient art be 
not also fading away into literary      

criticism2 7#b7 the science of language1
 under which all questions relating to  
words and propositions and the          
combinations of them may properly be    
included4  ,to continue dead or         
imaginary sciences1 which make no signs 
of progress and have no definite sphere1
 tends to interfere with the prosecution
 of living ones4 ,the study of them is  
apt to blind the judgment and to render 
men incapable of seeing the value of    
evidence1 and even of appreciating the  
nature of truth4 ,nor should we allow   
the living science to become confused   
with the dead by an ambiguity of        
language4 ,the term logic has two       
different meanings1 an ancient and a    
modern one1 and we vainly try to bridge 
the gulf between them4 ,many            
perplexities are avoided by keeping them
 apart4 ,there might certainly be a new 
science of logic2 it would not however  
be built up out of the fragments of the 
old1 but would be distinct from         
them--relative to the state of knowledge

 which exists at the present time1 and  
based chiefly on the methods of ,modern 
,inductive philosophy4 ,such a science  
might have two legitimate fields3 first1
 the refutation and explanation of false
 philosophies still hovering in the air 
as they appear from the point of view of
 later experience or are comprehended in
 the history of the human mind1 as in a 
larger horizon3 secondly1 it might      
furnish new forms of thought more       
adequate to the expression of all the   
diversities and oppositions of knowledge
 which have grown up in these latter    
days2 it might also suggest new methods 
of enquiry derived from the comparison  
of the sciences4 ,few will deny that the
 introduction of the words 'subject' and
 'object' and the ,hegelian             
reconciliation of opposites have been   
'most gracious aids' to psychology1 or  
that the methods of ,bacon and ,mill    
have shed a light far and wide on the   
realms of knowledge4 ,these two great   
studies1 the one destructive and        

corrective of error1 the other          
conservative and constructive of truth1 
might be a first and second part of     
logic4 ,ancient logic would be the      
propaedeutic or gate of approach to     
logical science1--nothing more4 ,but to 
pursue such speculations further1 though
 not irrelevant1 might lead us too far  
away from the argument of the dialogue4 
,the ,euthydemus is1 of all the         
,dialogues of ,plato1 that in which he  
approaches most nearly to the comic     
poet4 ,the mirth is broader1 the irony  
more sustained1 the contrast between    
,socrates and the two ,sophists1        
although veiled1 penetrates deeper than 
in any other of his writings4 ,even     
,thrasymachus1 in the ,republic1 is at  
last pacified1 and becomes a friendly   
and interested auditor of the great     
discourse4 ,but in the ,euthydemus the  
mask is never dropped2 the accustomed   
irony of ,socrates continues to the     
end444  ,socrates narrates to ,crito a  
remarkable scene in which he has himself

 taken part1 and in which the two       
brothers1 ,dionysodorus and ,euthydemus1
 are the chief performers4 ,they are    
natives of ,chios1 who had settled at   
,thurii1 but were driven out1 and in    
former days had been known at ,athens as
 professors of rhetoric and of the art  
of fighting in armour4 ,to this they    
have now added a new accomplishment--the
 art of ,eristic1 or fighting with      
words1 which they are likewise willing  
to teach 'for a consideration4' ,but    
they can also teach virtue in a very    
short time and in the very best manner4 
,socrates1 who is always on the look-out
 for teachers of virtue1 is interested  
in the youth ,cleinias1 the grandson of 
the great ,alcibiades1 and is desirous  
that he should have the benefit of their
 instructions4 ,he is ready to fall down
 and worship them2 although the         
greatness of their professions does     
arouse in his mind a temporary          
incredulity4  ,a circle gathers round   
them1 in the midst of which are         

,socrates1 the two brothers1 the youth  
,cleinias1 who is watched by the eager  
eyes of his lover ,ctesippus1 and       
others4 ,the performance begins2 and    
such a performance as might well seem to
 require an invocation of ,memory and   
the ,muses4 ,it is agreed that the      
brothers shall question ,cleinias4      
',cleinias1' says ,euthydemus1 'who     
learn1 the wise or the unwise8' ',the   
wise1' is the reply2 given with blushing
 and hesitation4 ',and yet when you     
learned you did not know and were not   
wise4' ,then ,dionysodorus takes up the 
ball3 ',who are they who learn dictation
 of the grammar-master2 the wise or the 
foolish boys8' ',the wise4' ',then1     
after all1 the wise learn4' ',and do    
they learn1' said ,euthydemus1 'what    
they know or what they do not know8'    
',the latter4' ',and dictation is a     
dictation of letters8' ',yes4' ',and you
 know letters8' ',yes4' ',then you learn
 what you know4' ',but1' retorts        
,dionysodorus1 'is not learning         

acquiring knowledge8' ',yes4' ',and you 
acquire that which you have not got     
already8' ',yes4' ',then you learn that 
which you do not know4'  ,socrates is   
afraid that the youth ,cleinias may be  
discouraged at these repeated           
overthrows4 ,he therefore explains to   
him the nature of the process to which  
he is being subjected4 ,the two         
strangers are not serious2 there are    
jests at the mysteries which precede the
 enthronement1 and he is being initiated
 into the mysteries of the sophistical  
ritual4 ,this is all a sort of          
horse-play1 which is now ended4 ,the    
exhortation to virtue will follow1 and  
,socrates himself 7if the wise men will 
not laugh at him7 is desirous of showing
 the way in which such an exhortation   
should be carried on1 according to his  
own poor notion4 ,he proceeds to        
question ,cleinias4 ,the result of the  
investigation may be summed up as       
follows3--  ,all men desire good2 and   
good means the possession of goods1 such

 as wealth1 health1 beauty1 birth1      
power1 honour2 not forgetting the       
virtues and wisdom4 ,and yet in this    
enumeration the greatest good of all is 
omitted4 ,what is that8 ,good fortune4  
,but what need is there of good fortune 
when we have wisdom already3--in every  
art and business are not the wise also  
the fortunate8 ,this is admitted4 ,and  
again1 the possession of goods is not   
enough2 there must also be a right use  
of them which can only be given by      
knowledge3 in themselves they are       
neither good nor evil--knowledge and    
wisdom are the only good1 and ignorance 
and folly the only evil4 ,the conclusion
 is that we must get 'wisdom4' ,but can 
wisdom be taught8 ',yes1' says          
,cleinias4 ,the ingenuousness of the    
youth delights ,socrates1 who is at once
 relieved from the necessity of         
discussing one of his great puzzles4    
',since wisdom is the only good1 he must
 become a philosopher1 or lover of      
wisdom4' ',that ,i will1' says          

,cleinias4  ,after ,socrates has given  
this specimen of his own mode of        
instruction1 the two brothers recommence
 their exhortation to virtue1 which is  
of quite another sort4  ',you want      
,cleinias to be wise8' ',yes4' ',and he 
is not wise yet8' ',no4' ',then you want
 him to be what he is not1 and not to be
 what he is8--not to be--that is1 to    
perish4 ,pretty lovers and friends you  
must all be6'  ,here ,ctesippus1 the    
lover of ,cleinias1 interposes in great 
excitement1 thinking that he will teach 
the two ,sophists a lesson of good      
manners4 ,but he is quickly entangled in
 the meshes of their sophistry2 and as a
 storm seems to be gathering ,socrates  
pacifies him with a joke1 and ,ctesippus
 then says that he is not reviling the  
two ,sophists1 he is only contradicting 
them4 ',but1' says ,dionysodorus1 'there
 is no such thing as contradiction4     
,when you and ,i describe the same      
thing1 or you describe one thing and ,i 
describe another1 how can there be a    

contradiction8' ,ctesippus is unable to 
reply4  ,socrates has already heard of  
the denial of contradiction1 and would  
like to be informed by the great master 
of the art1 ',what is the meaning of    
this paradox8 ,is there no such thing as
 error1 ignorance1 falsehood8 ,then what
 are they professing to teach8' ,the two
 ,sophists complain that ,socrates is   
ready to answer what they said a year   
ago1 but is 'non-plussed' at what they  
are saying now4 ',what does the word    
non-plussed mean8' ,socrates is         
informed1 in reply1 that words are      
lifeless things1 and lifeless things    
have no sense or meaning4 ,ctesippus    
again breaks out1 and again has to be   
pacified by ,socrates1 who renews the   
conversation with ,cleinias4 ,the two   
,sophists are like ,proteus in the      
variety of their transformations1 and   
he1 like ,menelaus in the ,odyssey1     
hopes to restore them to their natural  
form4  ,he had arrived at the conclusion
 that ,cleinias must become a           

philosopher4 ,and philosophy is the     
possession of knowledge2 and knowledge  
must be of a kind which is profitable   
and may be used4 ,what knowledge is     
there which has such a nature8 ,not the 
knowledge which is required in any      
particular art2 nor again the art of the
 composer of speeches1 who knows how to 
write them1 but cannot speak them1      
although he too must be admitted to be a
 kind of enchanter of wild animals4     
,neither is the knowledge which we are  
seeking the knowledge of the general4   
,for the general makes over his prey to 
the statesman1 as the huntsman does to  
the cook1 or the taker of quails to the 
keeper of quails2 he has not the use of 
that which he acquires4 ,the two        
enquirers1 ,cleinias and ,socrates1 are 
described as wandering about in a       
wilderness1 vainly searching after the  
art of life and happiness4 ,at last they
 fix upon the kingly art1 as having the 
desired sort of knowledge4 ,but the     
kingly art only gives men those goods   

which are neither good nor evil3 and if 
we say further that it makes us wise1 in
 what does it make us wise8 ,not in     
special arts1 such as cobbling or       
carpentering1 but only in itself3 or say
 again that it makes us good1 there is  
no answer to the question1 'good in     
what8' ,at length in despair ,cleinias  
and ,socrates turn to the ',dioscuri'   
and request their aid4  ,euthydemus     
argues that ,socrates knows something2  
and as he cannot know and not know1 he  
cannot know some things and not know    
others1 and therefore he knows all      
things3 he and ,dionysodorus and all    
other men know all things4 ',do they    
know shoemaking1 etc8' ',yes4' ,the     
sceptical ,ctesippus would like to have 
some evidence of this extraordinary     
statement3 he will believe if           
,euthydemus will tell him how many teeth
 ,dionysodorus has1 and if ,dionysodorus
 will give him a like piece of          
information about ,euthydemus4 ,even    
,socrates is incredulous1 and indulges  

in a little raillery at the expense of  
the brothers4 ,but he restrains himself1
 remembering that if the men who are to 
be his teachers think him stupid they   
will take no pains with him4 ,another   
fallacy is produced which turns on the  
absoluteness of the verb 'to know4' ,and
 here ,dionysodorus is caught 'napping1'
 and is induced by ,socrates to confess 
that 'he does not know the good to be   
unjust4' ,socrates appeals to his       
brother ,euthydemus2 at the same time he
 acknowledges that he cannot1 like      
,heracles1 fight against a ,hydra1 and  
even ,heracles1 on the approach of a    
second monster1 called upon his nephew  
,iolaus to help4 ,dionysodorus rejoins  
that ,iolaus was no more the nephew of  
,heracles than of ,socrates4 ,for a     
nephew is a nephew1 and a brother is a  
brother1 and a father is a father1 not  
of one man only1 but of all2 nor of men 
only1 but of dogs and sea-monsters4     
,ctesippus makes merry with the         
consequences which follow3 ',much good  

has your father got out of the wisdom of
 his puppies4'  ',but1' says            
,euthydemus1 unabashed1 'nobody wants   
much good4' ,medicine is a good1 arms   
are a good1 money is a good1 and yet    
there may be too much of them in wrong  
places4 ',no1' says ,ctesippus1 'there  
cannot be too much gold4' ,and would you
 be happy if you had three talents of   
gold in your belly1 a talent in your    
pate1 and a stater in either eye8'      
,ctesippus1 imitating the new wisdom1   
replies1 ',and do not the ,scythians    
reckon those to be the happiest of men  
who have their skulls gilded and see the
 inside of them8' ',do you see1' retorts
 ,euthydemus1 'what has the quality of  
vision or what has not the quality of   
vision8' ',what has the quality of      
vision4' ',and you see our garments8'   
',yes4' ',then our garments have the    
quality of vision4' ,a similar play of  
words follows1 which is successfully    
retorted by ,ctesippus1 to the great    
delight of ,cleinias1 who is rebuked by 

,socrates for laughing at such solemn   
and beautiful things4  ',but are there  
any beautiful things8 ,and if there are 
such1 are they the same or not the same 
as absolute beauty8' ,socrates replies  
that they are not the same1 but each of 
them has some beauty present with it4   
',and are you an ox because you have an 
ox present with you8' ,after a few more 
amphiboliae1 in which ,socrates1 like   
,ctesippus1 in self-defence borrows the 
weapons of the brothers1 they both      
confess that the two heroes are         
invincible2 and the scene concludes with
 a grand chorus of shouting and         
laughing1 and a panegyrical oration from
 ,socrates3--  ,first1 he praises the   
indifference of ,dionysodorus and       
,euthydemus to public opinion2 for most 
persons would rather be refuted by such 
arguments than use them in the          
refutation of others4 ,secondly1 he     
remarks upon their impartiality2 for    
they stop their own mouths1 as well as  
those of other people4 ,thirdly1 he     

notes their liberality1 which makes them
 give away their secret to all the      
world3 they should be more reserved1 and
 let no one be present at this          
exhibition who does not pay them a      
handsome fee2 or better still they might
 practise on one another only4 ,he      
concludes with a respectful request that
 they will receive him and ,cleinias    
among their disciples4  ,crito tells    
,socrates that he has heard one of the  
audience criticise severely this        
wisdom1--not sparing ,socrates himself  
for countenancing such an exhibition4   
,socrates asks what manner of man was   
this censorious critic4 ',not an orator1
 but a great composer of speeches4'     
,socrates understands that he is an     
amphibious animal1 half philosopher1    
half politician2 one of a class who have
 the highest opinion of themselves and a
 spite against philosophers1 whom they  
imagine to be their rivals4 ,they are a 
class who are very likely to get mauled 
by ,euthydemus and his friends1 and have

 a great notion of their own wisdom2 for
 they imagine themselves to have all the
 advantages and none of the drawbacks   
both of politics and of philosophy4     
,they do not understand the principles  
of combination1 and hence are ignorant  
that the union of two good things which 
have different ends produces a compound 
inferior to either of them taken        
separately4  ,crito is anxious about the
 education of his children1 one of whom 
is growing up4 ,the description of      
,dionysodorus and ,euthydemus suggests  
to him the reflection that the          
professors of education are strange     
beings4 ,socrates consoles him with the 
remark that the good in all professions 
are few1 and recommends that 'he and his
 house' should continue to serve        
philosophy1 and not mind about its      
professors4  444  ,there is a stage in  
the history of philosophy in which the  
old is dying out1 and the new has not   
yet come into full life4 ,great         
philosophies like the ,eleatic or       

,heraclitean1 which have enlarged the   
boundaries of the human mind1 begin to  
pass away in words4 ,they subsist only  
as forms which have rooted themselves in
 language--as troublesome elements of   
thought which cannot be either used or  
explained away4 ,the same absoluteness  
which was once attributed to            
abstractions is now attached to the     
words which are the signs of them4 ,the 
philosophy which in the first and second
 generation was a great and inspiring   
effort of reflection1 in the third      
becomes sophistical1 verbal1 eristic4   
,it is this stage of philosophy which   
,plato satirises in the ,euthydemus4    
,the fallacies which are noted by him   
appear trifling to us now1 but they were
 not trifling in the age before logic1  
in the decline of the earlier ,greek    
philosophies1 at a time when language   
was first beginning to perplex human    
thought4 ,besides he is caricaturing    
them2 they probably received more subtle
 forms at the hands of those who        

seriously maintained them4 ,they are    
patent to us in ,plato1 and we are      
inclined to wonder how any one could    
ever have been deceived by them2 but we 
must remember also that there was a time
 when the human mind was only with great
 difficulty disentangled from such      
fallacies4  ,to appreciate fully the    
drift of the ,euthydemus1 we should     
imagine a mental state in which not     
individuals only1 but whole schools     
during more than one generation1 were   
animated by the desire to exclude the   
conception of rest1 and therefore the   
very word 'this' 7,theaet47 from        
language2 in which the ideas of space1  
time1 matter1 motion1 were proved to be 
contradictory and imaginary2 in which   
the nature of qualitative change was a  
puzzle1 and even differences of degree1 
when applied to abstract notions1 were  
not understood2 in which there was no   
analysis of grammar1 and mere puns or   
plays of words received serious         
attention2 in which contradiction itself

 was denied1 and1 on the one hand1 every
 predicate was affirmed to be true of   
every subject1 and on the other1 it was 
held that no predicate was true of any  
subject1 and that nothing was1 or was   
known1 or could be spoken4 ,let us      
imagine disputes carried on with        
religious earnestness and more than     
scholastic subtlety1 in which the       
catchwords of philosophy are completely 
detached from their context4 7,compare  
,theaet47 ,to such disputes the humour1 
whether of ,plato in the ancient1 or of 
,pope and ,swift in the modern world1 is
 the natural enemy4 ,nor must we forget 
that in modern times also there is no   
fallacy so gross1 no trick of language  
so transparent1 no abstraction so barren
 and unmeaning1 no form of thought so   
contradictory to experience1 which has  
not been found to satisfy the minds of  
philosophical enquirers at a certain    
stage1 or when regarded from a certain  
point of view only4 ,the peculiarity of 
the fallacies of our own age is that we 

live within them1 and are therefore     
generally unconscious of them4          
,aristotle has analysed several of the  
same fallacies in his book ',de         
,sophisticis ,elenchis1' which ,plato1  
with equal command of their true nature1
 has preferred to bring to the test of  
ridicule4 ,at first we are only struck  
with the broad humour of this 'reductio 
ad absurdum3' gradually we perceive that
 some important questions begin to      
emerge4 ,here1 as everywhere else1      
,plato is making war against the        
philosophers who put words in the place 
of things1 who tear arguments to        
tatters1 who deny predication1 and thus 
make knowledge impossible1 to whom ideas
 and objects of sense have no fixedness1
 but are in a state of perpetual        
oscillation and transition4 ,two great  
truths seem to be indirectly taught     
through these fallacies3 7#a7 ,the      
uncertainty of language1 which allows   
the same words to be used in different  
meanings1 or with different degrees of  

meaning3 7#b7 ,the necessary limitation 
or relative nature of all phenomena4    
,plato is aware that his own doctrine of
 ideas1 as well as the ,eleatic ,being  
and ,not-being1 alike admit of being    
regarded as verbal fallacies4 ,the      
sophism advanced in the ,meno1 'that you
 cannot enquire either into what you    
know or do not know1' is lightly touched
 upon at the commencement of the        
,dialogue2 the thesis of ,protagoras1   
that everything is true to him to whom  
it seems to be true1 is satirized4 ,in  
contrast with these fallacies is        
maintained the ,socratic doctrine that  
happiness is gained by knowledge4 ,the  
grammatical puzzles with which the      
,dialogue concludes probably contain    
allusions to tricks of language which   
may have been practised by the disciples
 of ,prodicus or ,antisthenes4 ,they    
would have had more point1 if we were   
acquainted with the writings against    
which ,plato's humour is directed4 ,most
 of the jests appear to have a serious  

meaning2 but we have lost the clue to   
some of them1 and cannot determine      
whether1 as in the ,cratylus1 ,plato has
 or has not mixed up purely unmeaning   
fun with his satire4  ,the two          
discourses of ,socrates may be          
contrasted in several respects with the 
exhibition of the ,sophists3 7#a7 ,in   
their perfect relevancy to the subject  
of discussion1 whereas the ,sophistical 
discourses are wholly irrelevant3 7#b7  
,in their enquiring sympathetic tone1   
which encourages the youth1 instead of  
'knocking him down1' after the manner of
 the two ,sophists3 7#c7 ,in the absence
 of any definite conclusion--for while  
,socrates and the youth are agreed that 
philosophy is to be studied1 they are   
not able to arrive at any certain result
 about the art which is to teach it4    
,this is a question which will hereafter
 be answered in the ,republic2 as the   
conception of the kingly art is more    
fully developed in the ,politicus1 and  
the caricature of rhetoric in the       

,gorgias4  ,the characters of the       
,dialogue are easily intelligible4      
,there is ,socrates once more in the    
character of an old man2 and his equal  
in years1 ,crito1 the father of         
,critobulus1 like ,lysimachus in the    
,laches1 his fellow demesman 7,apol471  
to whom the scene is narrated1 and who  
once or twice interrupts with a remark  
after the manner of the interlocutor in 
the ,phaedo1 and adds his commentary at 
the end2 ,socrates makes a playful      
allusion to his money-getting habits4   
,there is the youth ,cleinias1 the      
grandson of ,alcibiades1 who may be     
compared with ,lysis1 ,charmides1       
,menexenus1 and other ingenuous youths  
out of whose mouths ,socrates draws his 
own lessons1 and to whom he always seems
 to stand in a kindly and sympathetic   
relation4 ,crito will not believe that  
,socrates has not improved or perhaps   
invented the answers of ,cleinias       
7compare ,phaedrus74 ,the name of the   
grandson of ,alcibiades1 who is         

described as long dead1 7,greek71 and   
who died at the age of forty-four1 in   
the year #djd ,b4,c41 suggests not only 
that the intended scene of the          
,euthydemus could not have been earlier 
than #djd1 but that as a fact this      
,dialogue could not have been composed  
before #cij at the soonest4 ,ctesippus1 
who is the lover of ,cleinias1 has been 
already introduced to us in the ,lysis1 
and seems there too to deserve the      
character which is here given him1 of a 
somewhat uproarious young man4 ,but the 
chief study of all is the picture of the
 two brothers1 who are unapproachable in
 their effrontery1 equally careless of  
what they say to others and of what is  
said to them1 and never at a loss4 ,they
 are ',arcades ambo et cantare pares et 
respondere parati4' ,some superior      
degree of wit or subtlety is attributed 
to ,euthydemus1 who sees the trap in    
which ,socrates catches ,dionysodorus4  
,the epilogue or conclusion of the      
,dialogue has been criticised as        

inconsistent with the general scheme4   
,such a criticism is like similar       
criticisms on ,shakespeare1 and proceeds
 upon a narrow notion of the variety    
which the ,dialogue1 like the drama1    
seems to admit4 ,plato in the abundance 
of his dramatic power has chosen to     
write a play upon a play1 just as he    
often gives us an argument within an    
argument4 ,at the same time he takes the
 opportunity of assailing another class 
of persons who are as alien from the    
spirit of philosophy as ,euthydemus and 
,dionysodorus4 ,the ,eclectic1 the      
,syncretist1 the ,doctrinaire1 have been
 apt to have a bad name both in ancient 
and modern times4 ,the persons whom     
,plato ridicules in the epilogue to the 
,euthydemus are of this class4 ,they    
occupy a border-ground between          
philosophy and politics2 they keep out  
of the dangers of politics1 and at the  
same time use philosophy as a means of  
serving their own interests4 ,plato     
quaintly describes them as making two   

good things1 philosophy and politics1 a 
little worse by perverting the objects  
of both4 ,men like ,antiphon or ,lysias 
would be types of the class4 ,out of a  
regard to the respectabilities of life1 
they are disposed to censure the        
interest which ,socrates takes in the   
exhibition of the two brothers4 ,they do
 not understand1 any more than ,crito1  
that he is pursuing his vocation of     
detecting the follies of mankind1 which 
he finds 'not unpleasant4' 7,compare    
,apol47  ,education is the common       
subject of all ,plato's earlier         
,dialogues4 ,the concluding remark of   
,crito1 that he has a difficulty in     
educating his two sons1 and the advice  
of ,socrates to him that he should not  
give up philosophy because he has no    
faith in philosophers1 seems to be a    
preparation for the more peremptory     
declaration of the ,meno that ',virtue  
cannot be taught because there are no   
teachers4'  ,the reasons for placing the
 ,euthydemus early in the series are3   

7#a7 the similarity in plan and style to
 the ,protagoras1 ,charmides1 and       
,lysis2--the relation of ,socrates to   
the ,sophists is still that of humorous 
antagonism1 not1 as in the later        
,dialogues of ,plato1 of embittered     
hatred2 and the places and persons have 
a considerable family likeness2 7#b7 the
 ,euthydemus belongs to the ,socratic   
period in which ,socrates is represented
 as willing to learn1 but unable to     
teach2 and in the spirit of ,xenophon's 
,memorabilia1 philosophy is defined as  
'the knowledge which will make us       
happy2' 7#c7 we seem to have passed the 
stage arrived at in the ,protagoras1 for
 ,socrates is no longer discussing      
whether virtue can be taught--from this 
question he is relieved by the ingenuous
 declaration of the youth ,cleinias2 and
 7#d7 not yet to have reached the point 
at which he asserts 'that there are no  
teachers4' ,such grounds are precarious1
 as arguments from style and plan are   
apt to be 7,greek74 ,but no arguments   

equally strong can be urged in favour of
 assigning to the ,euthydemus any other 
position in the series4     ,,euthydemus
   ,,persons ,,of ,,the ,,dialogue3     
,socrates1 who is the narrator of the   
,dialogue4 ,crito1 ,cleinias1           
,euthydemus1 ,dionysodorus1 ,ctesippus4 
,,scene3 ,the ,lyceum4   ,,crito3 ,who  
was the person1 ,socrates1 with whom you
 were talking yesterday at the ,lyceum8 
,there was such a crowd around you that 
,i could not get within hearing1 but ,i 
caught a sight of him over their heads1 
and ,i made out1 as ,i thought1 that he 
was a stranger with whom you were       
talking3 who was he8  ,,socrates3 ,there
 were two1 ,crito2 which of them do you 
mean8  ,,crito3 ,the one whom ,i mean   
was seated second from you on the       
right-hand side4 ,in the middle was     
,cleinias the young son of ,axiochus1   
who has wonderfully grown2 he is only   
about the age of my own ,critobulus1 but
 he is much forwarder and very          
good-looking3 the other is thin and     

looks younger than he is4  ,,socrates3  
,he whom you mean1 ,crito1 is           
,euthydemus2 and on my left hand there  
was his brother ,dionysodorus1 who also 
took part in the conversation4  ,,crito3
 ,neither of them are known to me1      
,socrates2 they are a new importation of
 ,sophists1 as ,i should imagine4 ,of   
what country are they1 and what is their
 line of wisdom8  ,,socrates3 ,as to    
their origin1 ,i believe that they are  
natives of this part of the world1 and  
have migrated from ,chios to ,thurii2   
they were driven out of ,thurii1 and    
have been living for many years past in 
these regions4 ,as to their wisdom1     
about which you ask1 ,crito1 they are   
wonderful--consummate6 ,i never knew    
what the true pancratiast was before2   
they are simply made up of fighting1 not
 like the two ,acarnanian brothers who  
fight with their bodies only1 but this  
pair of heroes1 besides being perfect in
 the use of their bodies1 are invincible
 in every sort of warfare2 for they are 

capital at fighting in armour1 and will 
teach the art to any one who pays them2 
and also they are most skilful in legal 
warfare2 they will plead themselves and 
teach others to speak and to compose    
speeches which will have an effect upon 
the courts4 ,and this was only the      
beginning of their wisdom1 but they have
 at last carried out the pancratiastic  
art to the very end1 and have mastered  
the only mode of fighting which had been
 hitherto neglected by them2 and now no 
one dares even to stand up against them3
 such is their skill in the war of      
words1 that they can refute any         
proposition whether true or false4 ,now 
,i am thinking1 ,crito1 of placing      
myself in their hands2 for they say that
 in a short time they can impart their  
skill to any one4  ,,crito3 ,but1       
,socrates1 are you not too old8 there   
may be reason to fear that4  ,,socrates3
 ,certainly not1 ,crito2 as ,i will     
prove to you1 for ,i have the           
consolation of knowing that they began  

this art of disputation which ,i covet1 
quite1 as ,i may say1 in old age2 last  
year1 or the year before1 they had none 
of their new wisdom4 ,i am only         
apprehensive that ,i may bring the two  
strangers into disrepute1 as ,i have    
done ,connus the son of ,metrobius1 the 
harp-player1 who is still my            
music-master2 for when the boys who go  
to him see me going with them1 they     
laugh at me and call him grandpapa's    
master4 ,now ,i should not like the     
strangers to experience similar         
treatment2 the fear of ridicule may make
 them unwilling to receive me2 and      
therefore1 ,crito1 ,i shall try and     
persuade some old men to accompany me to
 them1 as ,i persuaded them to go with  
me to ,connus1 and ,i hope that you will
 make one3 and perhaps we had better    
take your sons as a bait2 they will want
 to have them as pupils1 and for the    
sake of them willing to receive us4     
,,crito3 ,i see no objection1 ,socrates1
 if you like2 but first ,i wish that you

 would give me a description of their   
wisdom1 that ,i may know beforehand what
 we are going to learn4  ,,socrates3 ,in
 less than no time you shall hear2 for  
,i cannot say that ,i did not attend--,i
 paid great attention to them1 and ,i   
remember and will endeavour to repeat   
the whole story4 ,providentially ,i was 
sitting alone in the dressing-room of   
the ,lyceum where you saw me1 and was   
about to depart2 when ,i was getting up 
,i recognized the familiar divine sign3 
so ,i sat down again1 and in a little   
while the two brothers ,euthydemus and  
,dionysodorus came in1 and several      
others with them1 whom ,i believe to be 
their disciples1 and they walked about  
in the covered court2 they had not taken
 more than two or three turns when      
,cleinias entered1 who1 as you truly    
say1 is very much improved3 he was      
followed by a host of lovers1 one of    
whom was ,ctesippus the ,paeanian1 a    
well-bred youth1 but also having the    
wildness of youth4 ,cleinias saw me from

 the entrance as ,i was sitting alone1  
and at once came and sat down on the    
right hand of me1 as you describe2 and  
,dionysodorus and ,euthydemus1 when they
 saw him1 at first stopped and talked   
with one another1 now and then glancing 
at us1 for ,i particularly watched them2
 and then ,euthydemus came and sat down 
by the youth1 and the other by me on the
 left hand2 the rest anywhere4 ,i       
saluted the brothers1 whom ,i had not   
seen for a long time2 and then ,i said  
to ,cleinias3 ,here are two wise men1   
,euthydemus and ,dionysodorus1          
,cleinias1 wise not in a small but in a 
large way of wisdom1 for they know all  
about war1--all that a good general     
ought to know about the array and       
command of an army1 and the whole art of
 fighting in armour3 and they know about
 law too1 and can teach a man how to use
 the weapons of the courts when he is   
injured4  ,they heard me say this1 but  
only despised me4 ,i observed that they 
looked at one another1 and both of them 

laughed2 and then ,euthydemus said3     
,those1 ,socrates1 are matters which we 
no longer pursue seriously2 to us they  
are secondary occupations4  ,indeed1 ,i 
said1 if such occupations are regarded  
by you as secondary1 what must the      
principal one be2 tell me1 ,i beseech   
you1 what that noble study is8  ,the    
teaching of virtue1 ,socrates1 he       
replied1 is our principal occupation2   
and we believe that we can impart it    
better and quicker than any man4  ,my   
,god6 ,i said1 and where did you learn  
that8 ,i always thought1 as ,i was      
saying just now1 that your chief        
accomplishment was the art of fighting  
in armour2 and ,i used to say as much of
 you1 for ,i remember that you professed
 this when you were here before4 ,but   
now if you really have the other        
knowledge1 ,o forgive me3 ,i address you
 as ,i would superior beings1 and ask   
you to pardon the impiety of my former  
expressions4 ,but are you quite sure    
about this1 ,dionysodorus and           

,euthydemus8 the promise is so vast1    
that a feeling of incredulity steals    
over me4  ,you may take our word1       
,socrates1 for the fact4  ,then ,i think
 you happier in having such a treasure  
than the great king is in the possession
 of his kingdom4 ,and please to tell me 
whether you intend to exhibit your      
wisdom2 or what will you do8  ,that is  
why we have come hither1 ,socrates2 and 
our purpose is not only to exhibit1 but 
also to teach any one who likes to      
learn4  ,but ,i can promise you1 ,i     
said1 that every unvirtuous person will 
want to learn4 ,i shall be the first2   
and there is the youth ,cleinias1 and   
,ctesippus3 and here are several others1
 ,i said1 pointing to the lovers of     
,cleinias1 who were beginning to gather 
round us4 ,now ,ctesippus was sitting at
 some distance from ,cleinias2 and when 
,euthydemus leaned forward in talking   
with me1 he was prevented from seeing   
,cleinias1 who was between us2 and so1  
partly because he wanted to look at his 

love1 and also because he was           
interested1 he jumped up and stood      
opposite to us3 and all the other       
admirers of ,cleinias1 as well as the   
disciples of ,euthydemus and            
,dionysodorus1 followed his example4    
,and these were the persons whom ,i     
showed to ,euthydemus1 telling him that 
they were all eager to learn3 to which  
,ctesippus and all of them with one     
voice vehemently assented1 and bid him  
exhibit the power of his wisdom4 ,then  
,i said3 ,o ,euthydemus and             
,dionysodorus1 ,i earnestly request you 
to do myself and the company the favour 
to exhibit4 ,there may be some trouble  
in giving the whole exhibition2 but tell
 me one thing1--can you make a good man 
of him only who is already convinced    
that he ought to learn of you1 or of him
 also who is not convinced1 either      
because he imagines that virtue is a    
thing which cannot be taught at all1 or 
that you are not the teachers of it8    
,has your art power to persuade him1 who

 is of the latter temper of mind1 that  
virtue can be taught2 and that you are  
the men from whom he will best learn it8
  ,certainly1 ,socrates1 said           
,dionysodorus2 our art will do both4    
,and you and your brother1              
,dionysodorus1 ,i said1 of all men who  
are now living are the most likely to   
stimulate him to philosophy and to the  
study of virtue8  ,yes1 ,socrates1 ,i   
rather think that we are4  ,then ,i wish
 that you would be so good as to defer  
the other part of the exhibition1 and   
only try to persuade the youth whom you 
see here that he ought to be a          
philosopher and study virtue4 ,exhibit  
that1 and you will confer a great favour
 on me and on every one present2 for the
 fact is ,i and all of us are extremely 
anxious that he should become truly     
good4 ,his name is ,cleinias1 and he is 
the son of ,axiochus1 and grandson of   
the old ,alcibiades1 cousin of the      
,alcibiades that now is4 ,he is quite   
young1 and we are naturally afraid that 

some one may get the start of us1 and   
turn his mind in a wrong direction1 and 
he may be ruined4 ,your visit1          
therefore1 is most happily timed2 and ,i
 hope that you will make a trial of the 
young man1 and converse with him in our 
presence1 if you have no objection4     
,these were pretty nearly the           
expressions which ,i used2 and          
,euthydemus1 in a manly and at the same 
time encouraging tone1 replied3 ,there  
can be no objection1 ,socrates1 if the  
young man is only willing to answer     
questions4  ,he is quite accustomed to  
do so1 ,i replied2 for his friends often
 come and ask him questions and argue   
with him2 and therefore he is quite at  
home in answering4  ,what followed1     
,crito1 how can ,i rightly narrate8 ,for
 not slight is the task of rehearsing   
infinite wisdom1 and therefore1 like the
 poets1 ,i ought to commence my relation
 with an invocation to ,memory and the  
,muses4 ,now ,euthydemus1 if ,i remember
 rightly1 began nearly as follows3 ,o   

,cleinias1 are those who learn the wise 
or the ignorant8  ,the youth1           
overpowered by the question blushed1 and
 in his perplexity looked at me for     
help2 and ,i1 knowing that he was       
disconcerted1 said3 ,take courage1      
,cleinias1 and answer like a man        
whichever you think2 for my belief is   
that you will derive the greatest       
benefit from their questions4           
,whichever he answers1 said             
,dionysodorus1 leaning forward so as to 
catch my ear1 his face beaming with     
laughter1 ,i prophesy that he will be   
refuted1 ,socrates4  ,while he was      
speaking to me1 ,cleinias gave his      
answer3 and therefore ,i had no time to 
warn him of the predicament in which he 
was placed1 and he answered that those  
who learned were the wise4  ,euthydemus 
proceeded3 ,there are some whom you     
would call teachers1 are there not8     
,the boy assented4  ,and they are the   
teachers of those who learn--the        
grammar-master and the lyre-master used 

to teach you and other boys2 and you    
were the learners8  ,yes4  ,and when you
 were learners you did not as yet know  
the things which you were learning8     
,no1 he said4  ,and were you wise then8 
,no1 indeed1 he said4  ,but if you were 
not wise you were unlearned8            
,certainly4  ,you then1 learning what   
you did not know1 were unlearned when   
you were learning8  ,the youth nodded   
assent4  ,then the unlearned learn1 and 
not the wise1 ,cleinias1 as you imagine4
  ,at these words the followers of      
,euthydemus1 of whom ,i spoke1 like a   
chorus at the bidding of their director1
 laughed and cheered4 ,then1 before the 
youth had time to recover his breath1   
,dionysodorus cleverly took him in hand1
 and said3 ,yes1 ,cleinias2 and when the
 grammar-master dictated anything to    
you1 were they the wise boys or the     
unlearned who learned the dictation8    
,the wise1 replied ,cleinias4  ,then    
after all the wise are the learners and 
not the unlearned2 and your last answer 

to ,euthydemus was wrong4  ,then once   
more the admirers of the two heroes1 in 
an ecstasy at their wisdom1 gave vent to
 another peal of laughter1 while the    
rest of us were silent and amazed4      
,euthydemus1 observing this1 determined 
to persevere with the youth2 and in     
order to heighten the effect went on    
asking another similar question1 which  
might be compared to the double turn of 
an expert dancer4 ,do those1 said he1   
who learn1 learn what they know1 or what
 they do not know8  ,again ,dionysodorus
 whispered to me3 ,that1 ,socrates1 is  
just another of the same sort4  ,good   
heavens1 ,i said2 and your last question
 was so good6  ,like all our other      
questions1 ,socrates1 he                
replied--inevitable4  ,i see the reason1
 ,i said1 why you are in such reputation
 among your disciples4  ,meanwhile      
,cleinias had answered ,euthydemus that 
those who learned learn what they do not
 know2 and he put him through a series  
of questions the same as before4  ,do   

you not know letters8  ,he assented4    
,all letters8  ,yes4  ,but when the     
teacher dictates to you1 does he not    
dictate letters8  ,to this also he      
assented4  ,then if you know all        
letters1 he dictates that which you     
know8  ,this again was admitted by him4 
,then1 said the other1 you do not learn 
that which he dictates2 but he only who 
does not know letters learns8  ,nay1    
said ,cleinias2 but ,i do learn4  ,then1
 said he1 you learn what you know1 if   
you know all the letters8  ,he admitted 
that4  ,then1 he said1 you were wrong in
 your answer4  ,the word was hardly out 
of his mouth when ,dionysodorus took up 
the argument1 like a ball which he      
caught1 and had another throw at the    
youth4 ,cleinias1 he said1 ,euthydemus  
is deceiving you4 ,for tell me now1 is  
not learning acquiring knowledge of that
 which one learns8  ,cleinias assented4 
,and knowing is having knowledge at the 
time8  ,he agreed4  ,and not knowing is 
not having knowledge at the time8  ,he  

admitted that4  ,and are those who      
acquire those who have or have not a    
thing8  ,those who have not4  ,and have 
you not admitted that those who do not  
know are of the number of those who have
 not8  ,he nodded assent4  ,then those  
who learn are of the class of those who 
acquire1 and not of those who have8  ,he
 agreed4  ,then1 ,cleinias1 he said1    
those who do not know learn1 and not    
those who know4  ,euthydemus was        
proceeding to give the youth a third    
fall2 but ,i knew that he was in deep   
water1 and therefore1 as ,i wanted to   
give him a respite lest he should be    
disheartened1 ,i said to him            
consolingly3 ,you must not be surprised1
 ,cleinias1 at the singularity of their 
mode of speech3 this ,i say because you 
may not understand what the two         
strangers are doing with you2 they are  
only initiating you after the manner of 
the ,corybantes in the mysteries2 and   
this answers to the enthronement1 which1
 if you have ever been initiated1 is1 as

 you will know1 accompanied by dancing  
and sport2 and now they are just        
prancing and dancing about you1 and will
 next proceed to initiate you2 imagine  
then that you have gone through the     
first part of the sophistical ritual1   
which1 as ,prodicus says1 begins with   
initiation into the correct use of      
terms4 ,the two foreign gentlemen1      
perceiving that you did not know1 wanted
 to explain to you that the word 'to    
learn' has two meanings1 and is used1   
first1 in the sense of acquiring        
knowledge of some matter of which you   
previously have no knowledge1 and also1 
when you have the knowledge1 in the     
sense of reviewing this matter1 whether 
something done or spoken by the light of
 this newly-acquired knowledge2 the     
latter is generally called 'knowing'    
rather than 'learning1' but the word    
'learning' is also used2 and you did not
 see1 as they explained to you1 that the
 term is employed of two opposite sorts 
of men1 of those who know1 and of those 

who do not know4 ,there was a similar   
trick in the second question1 when they 
asked you whether men learn what they   
know or what they do not know4 ,these   
parts of learning are not serious1 and  
therefore ,i say that the gentlemen are 
not serious1 but are only playing with  
you4 ,for if a man had all that sort of 
knowledge that ever was1 he would not be
 at all the wiser2 he would only be able
 to play with men1 tripping them up and 
oversetting them with distinctions of   
words4 ,he would be like a person who   
pulls away a stool from some one when he
 is about to sit down1 and then laughs  
and makes merry at the sight of his     
friend overturned and laid on his back4 
,and you must regard all that has       
hitherto passed between you and them as 
merely play4 ,but in what is to follow  
,i am certain that they will exhibit to 
you their serious purpose1 and keep     
their promise 7,i will show them how72  
for they promised to give me a sample of
 the hortatory philosophy1 but ,i       

suppose that they wanted to have a game 
with you first4 ,and now1 ,euthydemus   
and ,dionysodorus1 ,i think that we have
 had enough of this4 ,will you let me   
see you explaining to the young man how 
he is to apply himself to the study of  
virtue and wisdom8 ,and ,i will first   
show you what ,i conceive to be the     
nature of the task1 and what sort of a  
discourse ,i desire to hear2 and if ,i  
do this in a very inartistic and        
ridiculous manner1 do not laugh at me1  
for ,i only venture to improvise before 
you because ,i am eager to hear your    
wisdom3 and ,i must therefore ask you   
and your disciples to refrain from      
laughing4 ,and now1 ,o son of ,axiochus1
 let me put a question to you3 ,do not  
all men desire happiness8 ,and yet1     
perhaps1 this is one of those ridiculous
 questions which ,i am afraid to ask1   
and which ought not to be asked by a    
sensible man3 for what human being is   
there who does not desire happiness8    
,there is no one1 said ,cleinias1 who   

does not4  ,well1 then1 ,i said1 since  
we all of us desire happiness1 how can  
we be happy8--that is the next question4
 ,shall we not be happy if we have many 
good things8 ,and this1 perhaps1 is even
 a more simple question than the first1 
for there can be no doubt of the answer4
  ,he assented4  ,and what things do we 
esteem good8 ,no solemn sage is required
 to tell us this1 which may be easily   
answered2 for every one will say that   
wealth is a good4  ,certainly1 he said4 
,and are not health and beauty goods1   
and other personal gifts8  ,he agreed4  
,can there be any doubt that good birth1
 and power1 and honours in one's own    
land1 are goods8  ,he assented4  ,and   
what other goods are there8 ,i said4    
,what do you say of temperance1 justice1
 courage3 do you not verily and indeed  
think1 ,cleinias1 that we shall be more 
right in ranking them as goods than in  
not ranking them as goods8 ,for a       
dispute might possibly arise about this4
 ,what then do you say8  ,they are      

goods1 said ,cleinias4  ,very well1 ,i  
said2 and where in the company shall we 
find a place for wisdom--among the goods
 or not8  ,among the goods4  ,and now1  
,i said1 think whether we have left out 
any considerable goods4  ,i do not think
 that we have1 said ,cleinias4  ,upon   
recollection1 ,i said1 indeed ,i am     
afraid that we have left out the        
greatest of them all4  ,what is that8 he
 asked4  ,fortune1 ,cleinias1 ,i        
replied2 which all1 even the most       
foolish1 admit to be the greatest of    
goods4  ,true1 he said4  ,on second     
thoughts1 ,i added1 how narrowly1 ,o son
 of ,axiochus1 have you and ,i escaped  
making a laughing-stock of ourselves to 
the strangers4  ,why do you say so8     
,why1 because we have already spoken of 
good-fortune1 and are but repeating     
ourselves4  ,what do you mean8  ,i mean 
that there is something ridiculous in   
again putting forward good-fortune1     
which has a place in the list already1  
and saying the same thing twice over4   

,he asked what was the meaning of this1 
and ,i replied3 ,surely wisdom is       
good-fortune2 even a child may know     
that4  ,the simple-minded youth was     
amazed2 and1 observing his surprise1 ,i 
said to him3 ,do you not know1          
,cleinias1 that flute-players are most  
fortunate and successful in performing  
on the flute8  ,he assented4  ,and are  
not the scribes most fortunate in       
writing and reading letters8            
,certainly4  ,amid the dangers of the   
sea1 again1 are any more fortunate on   
the whole than wise pilots8  ,none1     
certainly4  ,and if you were engaged in 
war1 in whose company would you rather  
take the risk--in company with a wise   
general1 or with a foolish one8  ,with a
 wise one4  ,and if you were ill1 whom  
would you rather have as a companion in 
a dangerous illness--a wise physician1  
or an ignorant one8  ,a wise one4  ,you 
think1 ,i said1 that to act with a wise 
man is more fortunate than to act with  
an ignorant one8  ,he assented4  ,then  

wisdom always makes men fortunate3 for  
by wisdom no man would ever err1 and    
therefore he must act rightly and       
succeed1 or his wisdom would be wisdom  
no longer4  ,we contrived at last1      
somehow or other1 to agree in a general 
conclusion1 that he who had wisdom had  
no need of fortune4 ,i then recalled to 
his mind the previous state of the      
question4 ,you remember1 ,i said1 our   
making the admission that we should be  
happy and fortunate if many good things 
were present with us8  ,he assented4    
,and should we be happy by reason of the
 presence of good things1 if they       
profited us not1 or if they profited us8
  ,if they profited us1 he said4  ,and  
would they profit us1 if we only had    
them and did not use them8 ,for example1
 if we had a great deal of food and did 
not eat1 or a great deal of drink and   
did not drink1 should we be profited8   
,certainly not1 he said4  ,or would an  
artisan1 who had all the implements     
necessary for his work1 and did not use 

them1 be any the better for the         
possession of them8 ,for example1 would 
a carpenter be any the better for having
 all his tools and plenty of wood1 if he
 never worked8  ,certainly not1 he said4
  ,and if a person had wealth and all   
the goods of which we were just now     
speaking1 and did not use them1 would he
 be happy because he possessed them8    
,no indeed1 ,socrates4  ,then1 ,i said1 
a man who would be happy must not only  
have the good things1 but he must also  
use them2 there is no advantage in      
merely having them8  ,true4  ,well1     
,cleinias1 but if you have the use as   
well as the possession of good things1  
is that sufficient to confer happiness8 
,yes1 in my opinion4  ,and may a person 
use them either rightly or wrongly8  ,he
 must use them rightly4  ,that is quite 
true1 ,i said4 ,and the wrong use of a  
thing is far worse than the non-use2 for
 the one is an evil1 and the other is   
neither a good nor an evil4 ,you admit  
that8  ,he assented4  ,now in the       

working and use of wood1 is not that    
which gives the right use simply the    
knowledge of the carpenter8  ,nothing   
else1 he said4  ,and surely1 in the     
manufacture of vessels1 knowledge is    
that which gives the right way of making
 them8  ,he agreed4  ,and in the use of 
the goods of which we spoke at          
first--wealth and health and beauty1 is 
not knowledge that which directs us to  
the right use of them1 and regulates our
 practice about them8  ,he assented4    
,then in every possession and every use 
of a thing1 knowledge is that which     
gives a man not only good-fortune but   
success8  ,he again assented4  ,and tell
 me1 ,i said1 ,o tell me1 what do       
possessions profit a man1 if he have    
neither good sense nor wisdom8 ,would a 
man be better off1 having and doing many
 things without wisdom1 or a few things 
with wisdom8 ,look at the matter thus3  
,if he did fewer things would he not    
make fewer mistakes8 if he made fewer   
mistakes would he not have fewer        

misfortunes8 and if he had fewer        
misfortunes would he not be less        
miserable8  ,certainly1 he said4  ,and  
who would do least--a poor man or a rich
 man8  ,a poor man4  ,a weak man or a   
strong man8  ,a weak man4  ,a noble man 
or a mean man8  ,a mean man4  ,and a    
coward would do less than a courageous  
and temperate man8  ,yes4  ,and an      
indolent man less than an active man8   
,he assented4  ,and a slow man less than
 a quick2 and one who had dull          
perceptions of seeing and hearing less  
than one who had keen ones8  ,all this  
was mutually allowed by us4  ,then1 ,i  
said1 ,cleinias1 the sum of the matter  
appears to be that the goods of which we
 spoke before are not to be regarded as 
goods in themselves1 but the degree of  
good and evil in them depends on whether
 they are or are not under the guidance 
of knowledge3 under the guidance of     
ignorance1 they are greater evils than  
their opposites1 inasmuch as they are   
more able to minister to the evil       

principle which rules them2 and when    
under the guidance of wisdom and        
prudence1 they are greater goods3 but in
 themselves they are nothing8  ,that1 he
 replied1 is obvious4  ,what then is the
 result of what has been said8 ,is not  
this the result--that other things are  
indifferent1 and that wisdom is the only
 good1 and ignorance the only evil8  ,he
 assented4  ,let us consider a further  
point1 ,i said3 ,seeing that all men    
desire happiness1 and happiness1 as has 
been shown1 is gained by a use1 and a   
right use1 of the things of life1 and   
the right use of them1 and good-fortune 
in the use of them1 is given by         
knowledge1--the inference is that       
everybody ought by all means to try and 
make himself as wise as he can8  ,yes1  
he said4  ,and when a man thinks that he
 ought to obtain this treasure1 far more
 than money1 from a father or a guardian
 or a friend or a suitor1 whether       
citizen or stranger--the eager desire   
and prayer to them that they would      

impart wisdom to you1 is not at all     
dishonourable1 ,cleinias2 nor is any one
 to be blamed for doing any honourable  
service or ministration to any man1     
whether a lover or not1 if his aim is to
 get wisdom4 ,do you agree8 ,i said4    
,yes1 he said1 ,i quite agree1 and think
 that you are right4  ,yes1 ,i said1    
,cleinias1 if only wisdom can be taught1
 and does not come to man spontaneously2
 for this is a point which has still to 
be considered1 and is not yet agreed    
upon by you and me--  ,but ,i think1    
,socrates1 that wisdom can be taught1 he
 said4  ,best of men1 ,i said1 ,i am    
delighted to hear you say so2 and ,i am 
also grateful to you for having saved me
 from a long and tiresome investigation 
as to whether wisdom can be taught or   
not4 ,but now1 as you think that wisdom 
can be taught1 and that wisdom only can 
make a man happy and fortunate1 will you
 not acknowledge that all of us ought to
 love wisdom1 and you individually will 
try to love her8  ,certainly1 ,socrates1

 he said2 ,i will do my best4  ,i was   
pleased at hearing this2 and ,i turned  
to ,dionysodorus and ,euthydemus and    
said3 ,that is an example1 clumsy and   
tedious ,i admit1 of the sort of        
exhortations which ,i would have you    
give2 and ,i hope that one of you will  
set forth what ,i have been saying in a 
more artistic style3 or at least take up
 the enquiry where ,i left off1 and     
proceed to show the youth whether he    
should have all knowledge2 or whether   
there is one sort of knowledge only     
which will make him good and happy1 and 
what that is4 ,for1 as ,i was saying at 
first1 the improvement of this young man
 in virtue and wisdom is a matter which 
we have very much at heart4  ,thus ,i   
spoke1 ,crito1 and was all attention to 
what was coming4 ,i wanted to see how   
they would approach the question1 and   
where they would start in their         
exhortation to the young man that he    
should practise wisdom and virtue4      
,dionysodorus1 who was the elder1 spoke 

first4 ,everybody's eyes were directed  
towards him1 perceiving that something  
wonderful might shortly be expected4    
,and certainly they were not far wrong2 
for the man1 ,crito1 began a remarkable 
discourse well worth hearing1 and       
wonderfully persuasive regarded as an   
exhortation to virtue4  ,tell me1 he    
said1 ,socrates and the rest of you who 
say that you want this young man to     
become wise1 are you in jest or in real 
earnest8  ,i was led by this to imagine 
that they fancied us to have been       
jesting when we asked them to converse  
with the youth1 and that this made them 
jest and play1 and being under this     
impression1 ,i was the more decided in  
saying that we were in profound earnest4
 ,dionysodorus said3  ,reflect1         
,socrates2 you may have to deny your    
words4  ,i have reflected1 ,i said2 and 
,i shall never deny my words4  ,well1   
said he1 and so you say that you wish   
,cleinias to become wise8  ,undoubtedly4
  ,and he is not wise as yet8  ,at least

 his modesty will not allow him to say  
that he is4  ,you wish him1 he said1 to 
become wise and not1 to be ignorant8    
,that we do4  ,you wish him to be what  
he is not1 and no longer to be what he  
is8  ,i was thrown into consternation at
 this4  ,taking advantage of my         
consternation he added3 ,you wish him no
 longer to be what he is1 which can only
 mean that you wish him to perish4      
,pretty lovers and friends they must be 
who want their favourite not to be1 or  
to perish6  ,when ,ctesippus heard this 
he got very angry 7as a lover well      
might7 and said3 ,stranger of           
,thurii--if politeness would allow me ,i
 should say1 ,a plague upon you6 ,what  
can make you tell such a lie about me   
and the others1 which ,i hardly like to 
repeat1 as that ,i wish ,cleinias to    
perish8  ,euthydemus replied3 ,and do   
you think1 ,ctesippus1 that it is       
possible to tell a lie8  ,yes1 said     
,ctesippus2 ,i should be mad to say     
anything else4  ,and in telling a lie1  

do you tell the thing of which you speak
 or not8  ,you tell the thing of which  
you speak4  ,and he who tells1 tells    
that thing which he tells1 and no other8
  ,yes1 said ,ctesippus4  ,and that is a
 distinct thing apart from other things8
  ,certainly4  ,and he who says that    
thing says that which is8  ,yes4  ,and  
he who says that which is1 says the     
truth4 ,and therefore ,dionysodorus1 if 
he says that which is1 says the truth of
 you and no lie4  ,yes1 ,euthydemus1    
said ,ctesippus2 but in saying this1 he 
says what is not4  ,euthydemus answered3
 ,and that which is not is not8  ,true4 
,and that which is not is nowhere8      
,nowhere4  ,and can any one do anything 
about that which has no existence1 or do
 to ,cleinias that which is not and is  
nowhere8  ,i think not1 said ,ctesippus4
  ,well1 but do rhetoricians1 when they 
speak in the assembly1 do nothing8      
,nay1 he said1 they do something4  ,and 
doing is making8  ,yes4  ,and speaking  
is doing and making8  ,he agreed4  ,then

 no one says that which is not1 for in  
saying what is not he would be doing    
something2 and you have already         
acknowledged that no one can do what is 
not4 ,and therefore1 upon your own      
showing1 no one says what is false2 but 
if ,dionysodorus says anything1 he says 
what is true and what is4  ,yes1        
,euthydemus1 said ,ctesippus2 but he    
speaks of things in a certain way and   
manner1 and not as they really are4     
,why1 ,ctesippus1 said ,dionysodorus1 do
 you mean to say that any one speaks of 
things as they are8  ,yes1 he said--all 
gentlemen and truth-speaking persons4   
,and are not good things good1 and evil 
things evil8  ,he assented4  ,and you   
say that gentlemen speak of things as   
they are8  ,yes4  ,then the good speak  
evil of evil things1 if they speak of   
them as they are8  ,yes1 indeed1 he     
said2 and they speak evil of evil men4  
,and if ,i may give you a piece of      
advice1 you had better take care that   
they do not speak evil of you1 since ,i 

can tell you that the good speak evil of
 the evil4  ,and do they speak great    
things of the great1 rejoined           
,euthydemus1 and warm things of the     
warm8  ,to be sure they do1 said        
,ctesippus2 and they speak coldly of the
 insipid and cold dialectician4  ,you   
are abusive1 ,ctesippus1 said           
,dionysodorus1 you are abusive6         
,indeed1 ,i am not1 ,dionysodorus1 he   
replied2 for ,i love you and am giving  
you friendly advice1 and1 if ,i could1  
would persuade you not like a boor to   
say in my presence that ,i desire my    
beloved1 whom ,i value above all men1 to
 perish4  ,i saw that they were getting 
exasperated with one another1 so ,i made
 a joke with him and said3 ,o           
,ctesippus1 ,i think that we must allow 
the strangers to use language in their  
own way1 and not quarrel with them about
 words1 but be thankful for what they   
give us4 ,if they know how to destroy   
men in such a way as to make good and   
sensible men out of bad and foolish     

ones--whether this is a discovery of    
their own1 or whether they have learned 
from some one else this new sort of     
death and destruction which enables them
 to get rid of a bad man and turn him   
into a good one--if they know this 7and 
they do know this--at any rate they said
 just now that this was the secret of   
their newly-discovered art7--let them1  
in their phraseology1 destroy the youth 
and make him wise1 and all of us with   
him4 ,but if you young men do not like  
to trust yourselves with them1 then fiat
 experimentum in corpore senis2 ,i will 
be the ,carian on whom they shall       
operate4 ,and here ,i offer my old      
person to ,dionysodorus2 he may put me  
into the pot1 like ,medea the ,colchian1
 kill me1 boil me1 if he will only make 
me good4  ,ctesippus said3 ,and ,i1     
,socrates1 am ready to commit myself to 
the strangers2 they may skin me alive1  
if they please 7and ,i am pretty well   
skinned by them already71 if only my    
skin is made at last1 not like that of  

,marsyas1 into a leathern bottle1 but   
into a piece of virtue4 ,and here is    
,dionysodorus fancying that ,i am angry 
with him1 when really ,i am not angry at
 all2 ,i do but contradict him when ,i  
think that he is speaking improperly to 
me3 and you must not confound abuse and 
contradiction1 ,o illustrious           
,dionysodorus2 for they are quite       
different things4  ,contradiction6 said 
,dionysodorus2 why1 there never was such
 a thing4  ,certainly there is1 he      
replied2 there can be no question of    
that4 ,do you1 ,dionysodorus1 maintain  
that there is not8  ,you will never     
prove to me1 he said1 that you have     
heard any one contradicting any one     
else4  ,indeed1 said ,ctesippus2 then   
now you may hear me contradicting       
,dionysodorus4  ,are you prepared to    
make that good8  ,certainly1 he said4   
,well1 have not all things words        
expressive of them8  ,yes4  ,of their   
existence or of their non-existence8    
,of their existence4  ,yes1 ,ctesippus1 

and we just now proved1 as you may      
remember1 that no man could affirm a    
negative2 for no one could affirm that  
which is not4  ,and what does that      
signify8 said ,ctesippus2 you and ,i may
 contradict all the same for that4  ,but
 can we contradict one another1 said    
,dionysodorus1 when both of us are      
describing the same thing8 ,then we must
 surely be speaking the same thing8  ,he
 assented4  ,or when neither of us is   
speaking of the same thing8 ,for then   
neither of us says a word about the     
thing at all8  ,he granted that         
proposition also4  ,but when ,i describe
 something and you describe another     
thing1 or ,i say something and you say  
nothing--is there any contradiction8    
,how can he who speaks contradict him   
who speaks not8  ,here ,ctesippus was   
silent2 and ,i in my astonishment said3 
,what do you mean1 ,dionysodorus8 ,i    
have often heard1 and have been amazed  
to hear1 this thesis of yours1 which is 
maintained and employed by the disciples

 of ,protagoras1 and others before them1
 and which to me appears to be quite    
wonderful1 and suicidal as well as      
destructive1 and ,i think that ,i am    
most likely to hear the truth about it  
from you4 ,the dictum is that there is  
no such thing as falsehood2 a man must  
either say what is true or say nothing4 
,is not that your position8  ,he        
assented4  ,but if he cannot speak      
falsely1 may he not think falsely8  ,no1
 he cannot1 he said4  ,then there is no 
such thing as false opinion8  ,no1 he   
said4  ,then there is no such thing as  
ignorance1 or men who are ignorant2 for 
is not ignorance1 if there be such a    
thing1 a mistake of fact8  ,certainly1  
he said4  ,and that is impossible8      
,impossible1 he replied4  ,are you      
saying this as a paradox1 ,dionysodorus2
 or do you seriously maintain no man to 
be ignorant8  ,refute me1 he said4  ,but
 how can ,i refute you1 if1 as you say1 
to tell a falsehood is impossible8      
,very true1 said ,euthydemus4  ,neither 

did ,i tell you just now to refute me1  
said ,dionysodorus2 for how can ,i tell 
you to do that which is not8  ,o        
,euthydemus1 ,i said1 ,i have but a dull
 conception of these subtleties and     
excellent devices of wisdom2 ,i am      
afraid that ,i hardly understand them1  
and you must forgive me therefore if ,i 
ask a very stupid question3 if there be 
no falsehood or false opinion or        
ignorance1 there can be no such thing as
 erroneous action1 for a man cannot fail
 of acting as he is acting--that is what
 you mean8  ,yes1 he replied4  ,and now1
 ,i said1 ,i will ask my stupid         
question3 ,if there is no such thing as 
error in deed1 word1 or thought1 then   
what1 in the name of goodness1 do you   
come hither to teach8 ,and were you not 
just now saying that you could teach    
virtue best of all men1 to any one who  
was willing to learn8  ,and are you such
 an old fool1 ,socrates1 rejoined       
,dionysodorus1 that you bring up now    
what ,i said at first--and if ,i had    

said anything last year1 ,i suppose that
 you would bring that up too--but are   
non-plussed at the words which ,i have  
just uttered8  ,why1 ,i said1 they are  
not easy to answer2 for they are the    
words of wise men3 and indeed ,i know   
not what to make of this word           
'nonplussed1' which you used last3 what 
do you mean by it1 ,dionysodorus8 ,you  
must mean that ,i cannot refute your    
argument4 ,tell me if the words have any
 other sense4  ,no1 he replied1 they    
mean what you say4 ,and now answer4     
,what1 before you1 ,dionysodorus8 ,i    
said4  ,answer1 said he4  ,and is that  
fair8  ,yes1 quite fair1 he said4  ,upon
 what principle8 ,i said4 ,i can only   
suppose that you are a very wise man who
 comes to us in the character of a great
 logician1 and who knows when to answer 
and when not to answer--and now you will
 not open your mouth at all1 because you
 know that you ought not4  ,you prate1  
he said1 instead of answering4 ,but if1 
my good sir1 you admit that ,i am wise1 

answer as ,i tell you4  ,i suppose that 
,i must obey1 for you are master4 ,put  
the question4  ,are the things which    
have sense alive or lifeless8  ,they are
 alive4  ,and do you know of any word   
which is alive8  ,i cannot say that ,i  
do4  ,then why did you ask me what sense
 my words had8  ,why1 because ,i was    
stupid and made a mistake4 ,and yet1    
perhaps1 ,i was right after all in      
saying that words have a sense2--what do
 you say1 wise man8 ,if ,i was not in   
error1 even you will not refute me1 and 
all your wisdom will be non-plussed2 but
 if ,i did fall into error1 then again  
you are wrong in saying that there is no
 error1--and this remark was made by you
 not quite a year ago4 ,i am inclined to
 think1 however1 ,dionysodorus and      
,euthydemus1 that this argument lies    
where it was and is not very likely to  
advance3 even your skill in the         
subtleties of logic1 which is really    
amazing1 has not found out the way of   
throwing another and not falling        

yourself1 now any more than of old4     
,ctesippus said3 ,men of ,chios1        
,thurii1 or however and whatever you    
call yourselves1 ,i wonder at you1 for  
you seem to have no objection to talking
 nonsense4  ,fearing that there would be
 high words1 ,i again endeavoured to    
soothe ,ctesippus1 and said to him3 ,to 
you1 ,ctesippus1 ,i must repeat what ,i 
said before to ,cleinias--that you do   
not understand the ways of these        
philosophers from abroad4 ,they are not 
serious1 but1 like the ,egyptian wizard1
 ,proteus1 they take different forms and
 deceive us by their enchantments3 and  
let us1 like ,menelaus1 refuse to let   
them go until they show themselves to us
 in earnest4 ,when they begin to be in  
earnest their full beauty will appear3  
let us then beg and entreat and beseech 
them to shine forth4 ,and ,i think that 
,i had better once more exhibit the form
 in which ,i pray to behold them2 it    
might be a guide to them4 ,i will go on 
therefore where ,i left off1 as well as 

,i can1 in the hope that ,i may touch   
their hearts and move them to pity1 and 
that when they see me deeply serious and
 interested1 they also may be serious4  
,you1 ,cleinias1 ,i said1 shall remind  
me at what point we left off4 ,did we   
not agree that philosophy should be     
studied8 and was not that our           
conclusion8  ,yes1 he replied4  ,and    
philosophy is the acquisition of        
knowledge8  ,yes1 he said4  ,and what   
knowledge ought we to acquire8 ,may we  
not answer with absolute truth--,a      
knowledge which will do us good8        
,certainly1 he said4  ,and should we be 
any the better if we went about having a
 knowledge of the places where most gold
 was hidden in the earth8  ,perhaps we  
should1 he said4  ,but have we not      
already proved1 ,i said1 that we should 
be none the better off1 even if without 
trouble and digging all the gold which  
there is in the earth were ours8 ,and if
 we knew how to convert stones into     
gold1 the knowledge would be of no value

 to us1 unless we also knew how to use  
the gold8 ,do you not remember8 ,i said4
  ,i quite remember1 he said4  ,nor     
would any other knowledge1 whether of   
money-making1 or of medicine1 or of any 
other art which knows only how to make a
 thing1 and not to use it when made1 be 
of any good to us4 ,am ,i not right8    
,he agreed4  ,and if there were a       
knowledge which was able to make men    
immortal1 without giving them the       
knowledge of the way to use the         
immortality1 neither would there be any 
use in that1 if we may argue from the   
analogy of the previous instances8  ,to 
all this he agreed4  ,then1 my dear boy1
 ,i said1 the knowledge which we want is
 one that uses as well as makes8  ,true1
 he said4  ,and our desire is not to be 
skilful lyre-makers1 or artists of that 
sort--far otherwise2 for with them the  
art which makes is one1 and the art     
which uses is another4 ,although they   
have to do with the same1 they are      
divided3 for the art which makes and the

 art which plays on the lyre differ     
widely from one another4 ,am ,i not     
right8  ,he agreed4  ,and clearly we do 
not want the art of the flute-maker2    
this is only another of the same sort8  
,he assented4  ,but suppose1 ,i said1   
that we were to learn the art of making 
speeches--would that be the art which   
would make us happy8  ,i should say1 no1
 rejoined ,cleinias4  ,and why should   
you say so8 ,i asked4  ,i see1 he       
replied1 that there are some composers  
of speeches who do not know how to use  
the speeches which they make1 just as   
the makers of lyres do not know how to  
use the lyres2 and also some who are of 
themselves unable to compose speeches1  
but are able to use the speeches which  
the others make for them2 and this      
proves that the art of making speeches  
is not the same as the art of using     
them4  ,yes1 ,i said2 and ,i take your  
words to be a sufficient proof that the 
art of making speeches is not one which 
will make a man happy4 ,and yet ,i did  

think that the art which we have so long
 been seeking might be discovered in    
that direction2 for the composers of    
speeches1 whenever ,i meet them1 always 
appear to me to be very extraordinary   
men1 ,cleinias1 and their art is lofty  
and divine1 and no wonder4 ,for their   
art is a part of the great art of       
enchantment1 and hardly1 if at all1     
inferior to it3 and whereas the art of  
the enchanter is a mode of charming     
snakes and spiders and scorpions1 and   
other monsters and pests1 this art of   
their's acts upon dicasts and           
ecclesiasts and bodies of men1 for the  
charming and pacifying of them4 ,do you 
agree with me8  ,yes1 he said1 ,i think 
that you are quite right4  ,whither then
 shall we go1 ,i said1 and to what art  
shall we have recourse8  ,i do not see  
my way1 he said4  ,but ,i think that ,i 
do1 ,i replied4  ,and what is your      
notion8 asked ,cleinias4  ,i think that 
the art of the general is above all     
others the one of which the possession  

is most likely to make a man happy4  ,i 
do not think so1 he said4  ,why not8 ,i 
said4  ,the art of the general is surely
 an art of hunting mankind4  ,what of   
that8 ,i said4  ,why1 he said1 no art of
 hunting extends beyond hunting and     
capturing2 and when the prey is taken   
the huntsman or fisherman cannot use it2
 but they hand it over to the cook1 and 
the geometricians and astronomers and   
calculators 7who all belong to the      
hunting class1 for they do not make     
their diagrams1 but only find out that  
which was previously contained in       
them7--they1 ,i say1 not being able to  
use but only to catch their prey1 hand  
over their inventions to the            
dialectician to be applied by him1 if   
they have any sense in them4  ,good1 ,i 
said1 fairest and wisest ,cleinias4 ,and
 is this true8  ,certainly1 he said2    
just as a general when he takes a city  
or a camp hands over his new acquisition
 to the statesman1 for he does not know 
how to use them himself2 or as the      

quail-taker transfers the quails to the 
keeper of them4 ,if we are looking for  
the art which is to make us blessed1 and
 which is able to use that which it     
makes or takes1 the art of the general  
is not the one1 and some other must be  
found4  ,,crito3 ,and do you mean1      
,socrates1 that the youngster said all  
this8  ,,socrates3 ,are you incredulous1
 ,crito8  ,,crito3 ,indeed1 ,i am2 for  
if he did say so1 then in my opinion he 
needs neither ,euthydemus nor any one   
else to be his instructor4  ,,socrates3 
,perhaps ,i may have forgotten1 and     
,ctesippus was the real answerer4       
,,crito3 ,ctesippus6 nonsense4          
,,socrates3 ,all ,i know is that ,i     
heard these words1 and that they were   
not spoken either by ,euthydemus or     
,dionysodorus4 ,i dare say1 my good     
,crito1 that they may have been spoken  
by some superior person3 that ,i heard  
them ,i am certain4  ,,crito3 ,yes1     
indeed1 ,socrates1 by some one a good   
deal superior1 as ,i should be disposed 

to think4 ,but did you carry the search 
any further1 and did you find the art   
which you were seeking8  ,,socrates3    
,find6 my dear sir1 no indeed4 ,and we  
cut a poor figure2 we were like children
 after larks1 always on the point of    
catching the art1 which was always      
getting away from us4 ,but why should ,i
 repeat the whole story8 ,at last we    
came to the kingly art1 and enquired    
whether that gave and caused happiness1 
and then we got into a labyrinth1 and   
when we thought we were at the end1 came
 out again at the beginning1 having     
still to seek as much as ever4  ,,crito3
 ,how did that happen1 ,socrates8       
,,socrates3 ,i will tell you2 the kingly
 art was identified by us with the      
political4  ,,crito3 ,well1 and what    
came of that8  ,,socrates3 ,to this     
royal or political art all the arts1    
including the art of the general1 seemed
 to render up the supremacy1 that being 
the only one which knew how to use what 
they produce4 ,here obviously was the   

very art which we were seeking--the art 
which is the source of good government1 
and which may be described1 in the      
language of ,aeschylus1 as alone sitting
 at the helm of the vessel of state1    
piloting and governing all things1 and  
utilizing them4  ,,crito3 ,and were you 
not right1 ,socrates8  ,,socrates3 ,you 
shall judge1 ,crito1 if you are willing 
to hear what followed2 for we resumed   
the enquiry1 and a question of this sort
 was asked3 ,does the kingly art1 having
 this supreme authority1 do anything for
 us8 ,to be sure1 was the answer4 ,and  
would not you1 ,crito1 say the same8    
,,crito3 ,yes1 ,i should4  ,,socrates3  
,and what would you say that the kingly 
art does8 ,if medicine were supposed to 
have supreme authority over the         
subordinate arts1 and ,i were to ask you
 a similar question about that1 you     
would say--it produces health8  ,,crito3
 ,i should4  ,,socrates3 ,and what of   
your own art of husbandry1 supposing    
that to have supreme authority over the 

subject arts--what does that do8 ,does  
it not supply us with the fruits of the 
earth8  ,,crito3 ,yes4  ,,socrates3 ,and
 what does the kingly art do when       
invested with supreme power8 ,perhaps   
you may not be ready with an answer8    
,,crito3 ,indeed ,i am not1 ,socrates4  
,,socrates3 ,no more were we1 ,crito4   
,but at any rate you know that if this  
is the art which we were seeking1 it    
ought to be useful4  ,,crito3           
,certainly4  ,,socrates3 ,and surely it 
ought to do us some good8  ,,crito3     
,certainly1 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,and
 ,cleinias and ,i had arrived at the    
conclusion that knowledge of some kind  
is the only good4  ,,crito3 ,yes1 that  
was what you were saying4  ,,socrates3  
,all the other results of politics1 and 
they are many1 as for example1 wealth1  
freedom1 tranquillity1 were neither good
 nor evil in themselves2 but the        
political science ought to make us wise1
 and impart knowledge to us1 if that is 
the science which is likely to do us    

good1 and make us happy4  ,,crito3 ,yes2
 that was the conclusion at which you   
had arrived1 according to your report of
 the conversation4  ,,socrates3 ,and    
does the kingly art make men wise and   
good8  ,,crito3 ,why not1 ,socrates8    
,,socrates3 ,what1 all men1 and in every
 respect8 and teach them all the        
arts1--carpentering1 and cobbling1 and  
the rest of them8  ,,crito3 ,i think    
not1 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,but then  
what is this knowledge1 and what are we 
to do with it8 ,for it is not the source
 of any works which are neither good nor
 evil1 and gives no knowledge1 but the  
knowledge of itself2 what then can it   
be1 and what are we to do with it8      
,shall we say1 ,crito1 that it is the   
knowledge by which we are to make other 
men good8  ,,crito3 ,by all means4      
,,socrates3 ,and in what will they be   
good and useful8 ,shall we repeat that  
they will make others good1 and that    
these others will make others again1    
without ever determining in what they   

are to be good2 for we have put aside   
the results of politics1 as they are    
called4 ,this is the old1 old song over 
again2 and we are just as far as ever1  
if not farther1 from the knowledge of   
the art or science of happiness4        
,,crito3 ,indeed1 ,socrates1 you do     
appear to have got into a great         
perplexity4  ,,socrates3 ,thereupon1    
,crito1 seeing that ,i was on the point 
of shipwreck1 ,i lifted up my voice1 and
 earnestly entreated and called upon the
 strangers to save me and the youth from
 the whirlpool of the argument2 they    
were our ,castor and ,pollux1 ,i said1  
and they should be serious1 and show us 
in sober earnest what that knowledge was
 which would enable us to pass the rest 
of our lives in happiness4  ,,crito3    
,and did ,euthydemus show you this      
knowledge8  ,,socrates3 ,yes1 indeed2 he
 proceeded in a lofty strain to the     
following effect3 ,would you rather1    
,socrates1 said he1 that ,i should show 
you this knowledge about which you have 

been doubting1 or shall ,i prove that   
you already have it8  ,what1 ,i said1   
are you blessed with such a power as    
this8  ,indeed ,i am4  ,then ,i would   
much rather that you should prove me to 
have such a knowledge2 at my time of    
life that will be more agreeable than   
having to learn4  ,then tell me1 he     
said1 do you know anything8  ,yes1 ,i   
said1 ,i know many things1 but not      
anything of much importance4  ,that will
 do1 he said3 ,and would you admit that 
anything is what it is1 and at the same 
time is not what it is8  ,certainly not4
  ,and did you not say that you knew    
something8  ,i did4  ,if you know1 you  
are knowing4  ,certainly1 of the        
knowledge which ,i have4  ,that makes no
 difference2--and must you not1 if you  
are knowing1 know all things8           
,certainly not1 ,i said1 for there are  
many other things which ,i do not know4 
,and if you do not know1 you are not    
knowing4  ,yes1 friend1 of that which ,i
 do not know4  ,still you are not       

knowing1 and you said just now that you 
were knowing2 and therefore you are and 
are not at the same time1 and in        
reference to the same things4  ,a pretty
 clatter1 as men say1 ,euthydemus1 this 
of yours6 and will you explain how ,i   
possess that knowledge for which we were
 seeking8 ,do you mean to say that the  
same thing cannot be and also not be2   
and therefore1 since ,i know one thing1 
that ,i know all1 for ,i cannot be      
knowing and not knowing at the same     
time1 and if ,i know all things1 then ,i
 must have the knowledge for which we   
are seeking--,may ,i assume this to be  
your ingenious notion8  ,out of your own
 mouth1 ,socrates1 you are convicted1 he
 said4  ,well1 but1 ,euthydemus1 ,i     
said1 has that never happened to you8   
for if ,i am only in the same case with 
you and our beloved ,dionysodorus1 ,i   
cannot complain4 ,tell me1 then1 you    
two1 do you not know some things1 and   
not know others8  ,certainly not1       
,socrates1 said ,dionysodorus4  ,what do

 you mean1 ,i said2 do you know nothing8
  ,nay1 he replied1 we do know          
something4  ,then1 ,i said1 you know all
 things1 if you know anything8  ,yes1   
all things1 he said2 and that is as true
 of you as of us4  ,o1 indeed1 ,i said1 
what a wonderful thing1 and what a great
 blessing6 ,and do all other men know   
all things or nothing8  ,certainly1 he  
replied2 they cannot know some things1  
and not know others1 and be at the same 
time knowing and not knowing4  ,then    
what is the inference8 ,i said4  ,they  
all know all things1 he replied1 if they
 know one thing4  ,o heavens1           
,dionysodorus1 ,i said1 ,i see now that 
you are in earnest2 hardly have ,i got  
you to that point4 ,and do you really   
and truly know all things1 including    
carpentering and leather-cutting8       
,certainly1 he said4  ,and do you know  
stitching8  ,yes1 by the gods1 we do1   
and cobbling1 too4  ,and do you know    
things such as the numbers of the stars 
and of the sand8  ,certainly2 did you   

think we should say ,no to that8  ,by   
,zeus1 said ,ctesippus1 interrupting1 ,i
 only wish that you would give me some  
proof which would enable me to know     
whether you speak truly4  ,what proof   
shall ,i give you8 he said4  ,will you  
tell me how many teeth ,euthydemus has8 
and ,euthydemus shall tell how many     
teeth you have4  ,will you not take our 
word that we know all things8           
,certainly not1 said ,ctesippus3 you    
must further tell us this one thing1 and
 then we shall know that you are speak  
the truth2 if you tell us the number1   
and we count them1 and you are found to 
be right1 we will believe the rest4     
,they fancied that ,ctesippus was making
 game of them1 and they refused1 and    
they would only say in answer to each of
 his questions1 that they knew all      
things4 ,for at last ,ctesippus began to
 throw off all restraint2 no question in
 fact was too bad for him2 he would ask 
them if they knew the foulest things1   
and they1 like wild boars1 came rushing 

on his blows1 and fearlessly replied    
that they did4 ,at last1 ,crito1 ,i too 
was carried away by my incredulity1 and 
asked ,euthydemus whether ,dionysodorus 
could dance4  ,certainly1 he replied4   
,and can he vault among swords1 and turn
 upon a wheel1 at his age8 has he got to
 such a height of skill as that8  ,he   
can do anything1 he said4  ,and did you 
always know this8  ,always1 he said4    
,when you were children1 and at your    
birth8  ,they both said that they did4  
,this we could not believe4 ,and        
,euthydemus said3 ,you are incredulous1 
,socrates4  ,yes1 ,i said1 and ,i might 
well be incredulous1 if ,i did not know 
you to be wise men4  ,but if you will   
answer1 he said1 ,i will make you       
confess to similar marvels4  ,well1 ,i  
said1 there is nothing that ,i should   
like better than to be self-convicted of
 this1 for if ,i am really a wise man1  
which ,i never knew before1 and you will
 prove to me that ,i know and have      
always known all things1 nothing in life

 would be a greater gain to me4  ,answer
 then1 he said4  ,ask1 ,i said1 and ,i  
will answer4  ,do you know something1   
,socrates1 or nothing8  ,something1 ,i  
said4  ,and do you know with what you   
know1 or with something else8  ,with    
what ,i know2 and ,i suppose that you   
mean with my soul8  ,are you not        
ashamed1 ,socrates1 of asking a question
 when you are asked one8  ,well1 ,i     
said2 but then what am ,i to do8 for ,i 
will do whatever you bid2 when ,i do not
 know what you are asking1 you tell me  
to answer nevertheless1 and not to ask  
again4  ,why1 you surely have some      
notion of my meaning1 he said4  ,yes1 ,i
 replied4  ,well1 then1 answer according
 to your notion of my meaning4  ,yes1 ,i
 said2 but if the question which you ask
 in one sense is understood and answered
 by me in another1 will that please     
you--if ,i answer what is not to the    
point8  ,that will please me very well2 
but will not please you equally well1 as
 ,i imagine4  ,i certainly will not     

answer unless ,i understand you1 ,i     
said4  ,you will not answer1 he said1   
according to your view of the meaning1  
because you will be prating1 and are an 
ancient4  ,now ,i saw that he was       
getting angry with me for drawing       
distinctions1 when he wanted to catch me
 in his springes of words4 ,and ,i      
remembered that ,connus was always angry
 with me when ,i opposed him1 and then  
he neglected me1 because he thought that
 ,i was stupid2 and as ,i was intending 
to go to ,euthydemus as a pupil1 ,i     
reflected that ,i had better let him    
have his way1 as he might think me a    
blockhead1 and refuse to take me4 ,so ,i
 said3 ,you are a far better            
dialectician than myself1 ,euthydemus1  
for ,i have never made a profession of  
the art1 and therefore do as you say2   
ask your questions once more1 and ,i    
will answer4  ,answer then1 he said1    
again1 whether you know what you know   
with something1 or with nothing4  ,yes1 
,i said2 ,i know with my soul4  ,the man

 will answer more than the question2 for
 ,i did not ask you1 he said1 with what 
you know1 but whether you know with     
something4  ,again ,i replied1 ,through 
ignorance ,i have answered too much1 but
 ,i hope that you will forgive me4 ,and 
now ,i will answer simply that ,i always
 know what ,i know with something4  ,and
 is that something1 he rejoined1 always 
the same1 or sometimes one thing1 and   
sometimes another thing8  ,always1 ,i   
replied1 when ,i know1 ,i know with     
this4  ,will you not cease adding to    
your answers8  ,my fear is that this    
word 'always' may get us into trouble4  
,you1 perhaps1 but certainly not us4    
,and now answer3 ,do you always know    
with this8  ,always2 since ,i am        
required to withdraw the words 'when ,i 
know4'  ,you always know with this1 or1 
always knowing1 do you know some things 
with this1 and some things with         
something else1 or do you know all      
things with this8  ,all that ,i know1 ,i
 replied1 ,i know with this4  ,there    

again1 ,socrates1 he said1 the addition 
is superfluous4  ,well1 then1 ,i said1  
,i will take away the words 'that ,i    
know4'  ,nay1 take nothing away2 ,i     
desire no favours of you2 but let me    
ask3 ,would you be able to know all     
things1 if you did not know all things8 
,quite impossible4  ,and now1 he said1  
you may add on whatever you like1 for   
you confess that you know all things4   
,i suppose that is true1 ,i said1 if my 
qualification implied in the words 'that
 ,i know' is not allowed to stand2 and  
so ,i do know all things4  ,and have you
 not admitted that you always know all  
things with that which you know1 whether
 you make the addition of 'when you know
 them' or not8 for you have acknowledged
 that you have always and at once known 
all things1 that is to say1 when you    
were a child1 and at your birth1 and    
when you were growing up1 and before you
 were born1 and before the heaven and   
earth existed1 you knew all things1 if  
you always know them2 and ,i swear that 

you shall always continue to know all   
things1 if ,i am of the mind to make    
you4  ,but ,i hope that you will be of  
that mind1 reverend ,euthydemus1 ,i     
said1 if you are really speaking the    
truth1 and yet ,i a little doubt your   
power to make good your words unless you
 have the help of your brother          
,dionysodorus2 then you may do it4 ,tell
 me now1 both of you1 for although in   
the main ,i cannot doubt that ,i really 
do know all things1 when ,i am told so  
by men of your prodigious wisdom--how   
can ,i say that ,i know such things1    
,euthydemus1 as that the good are       
unjust2 come1 do ,i know that or not8   
,certainly1 you know that4  ,what do ,i 
know8  ,that the good are not unjust4   
,quite true1 ,i said2 and that ,i have  
always known2 but the question is1 where
 did ,i learn that the good are unjust8 
,nowhere1 said ,dionysodorus4  ,then1 ,i
 said1 ,i do not know this4  ,you are   
ruining the argument1 said ,euthydemus  
to ,dionysodorus2 he will be proved not 

to know1 and then after all he will be  
knowing and not knowing at the same     
time4  ,dionysodorus blushed4  ,i turned
 to the other1 and said1 ,what do you   
think1 ,euthydemus8 ,does not your      
omniscient brother appear to you to have
 made a mistake8  ,what1 replied        
,dionysodorus in a moment2 am ,i the    
brother of ,euthydemus8  ,thereupon ,i  
said1 ,please not to interrupt1 my good 
friend1 or prevent ,euthydemus from     
proving to me that ,i know the good to  
be unjust2 such a lesson you might at   
least allow me to learn4  ,you are      
running away1 ,socrates1 said           
,dionysodorus1 and refusing to answer4  
,no wonder1 ,i said1 for ,i am not a    
match for one of you1 and a fortiori ,i 
must run away from two4 ,i am no        
,heracles2 and even ,heracles could not 
fight against the ,hydra1 who was a     
she-,sophist1 and had the wit to shoot  
up many new heads when one of them was  
cut off2 especially when he saw a second
 monster of a sea-crab1 who was also a  

,sophist1 and appeared to have newly    
arrived from a sea-voyage1 bearing down 
upon him from the left1 opening his     
mouth and biting4 ,when the monster was 
growing troublesome he called ,iolaus1  
his nephew1 to his help1 who ably       
succoured him2 but if my ,iolaus1 who is
 my brother ,patrocles 7the statuary71  
were to come1 he would only make a bad  
business worse4  ,and now that you have 
delivered yourself of this strain1 said 
,dionysodorus1 will you inform me       
whether ,iolaus was the nephew of       
,heracles any more than he is yours8  ,i
 suppose that ,i had best answer you1   
,dionysodorus1 ,i said1 for you will    
insist on asking--that ,i pretty well   
know--out of envy1 in order to prevent  
me from learning the wisdom of          
,euthydemus4  ,then answer me1 he said4 
,well then1 ,i said1 ,i can only reply  
that ,iolaus was not my nephew at all1  
but the nephew of ,heracles2 and his    
father was not my brother ,patrocles1   
but ,iphicles1 who has a name rather    

like his1 and was the brother of        
,heracles4  ,and is ,patrocles1 he said1
 your brother8  ,yes1 ,i said1 he is my 
half-brother1 the son of my mother1 but 
not of my father4  ,then he is and is   
not your brother4  ,not by the same     
father1 my good man1 ,i said1 for       
,chaeredemus was his father1 and mine   
was ,sophroniscus4  ,and was            
,sophroniscus a father1 and ,chaeredemus
 also8  ,yes1 ,i said2 the former was my
 father1 and the latter his4  ,then1 he 
said1 ,chaeredemus is not a father4  ,he
 is not my father1 ,i said4  ,but can a 
father be other than a father8 or are   
you the same as a stone8  ,i certainly  
do not think that ,i am a stone1 ,i     
said1 though ,i am afraid that you may  
prove me to be one4  ,are you not other 
than a stone8  ,i am4  ,and being other 
than a stone1 you are not a stone2 and  
being other than gold1 you are not gold8
  ,very true4  ,and so ,chaeredemus1 he 
said1 being other than a father1 is not 
a father8  ,i suppose that he is not a  

father1 ,i replied4  ,for if1 said      
,euthydemus1 taking up the argument1    
,chaeredemus is a father1 then          
,sophroniscus1 being other than a       
father1 is not a father2 and you1       
,socrates1 are without a father4        
,ctesippus1 here taking up the argument1
 said3 ,and is not your father in the   
same case1 for he is other than my      
father8  ,assuredly not1 said           
,euthydemus4  ,then he is the same8  ,he
 is the same4  ,i cannot say that ,i    
like the connection2 but is he only my  
father1 ,euthydemus1 or is he the father
 of all other men8  ,of all other men1  
he replied4 ,do you suppose the same    
person to be a father and not a father8 
,certainly1 ,i did so imagine1 said     
,ctesippus4  ,and do you suppose that   
gold is not gold1 or that a man is not a
 man8  ,they are not 'in pari materia1' 
,euthydemus1 said ,ctesippus1 and you   
had better take care1 for it is         
monstrous to suppose that your father is
 the father of all4  ,but he is1 he     

replied4  ,what1 of men only1 said      
,ctesippus1 or of horses and of all     
other animals8  ,of all1 he said4  ,and 
your mother1 too1 is the mother of all8 
,yes1 our mother too4  ,yes2 and your   
mother has a progeny of sea-urchins     
then8  ,yes2 and yours1 he said4  ,and  
gudgeons and puppies and pigs are your  
brothers8  ,and yours too4  ,and your   
papa is a dog8  ,and so is yours1 he    
said4  ,if you will answer my questions1
 said ,dionysodorus1 ,i will soon       
extract the same admissions from you1   
,ctesippus4 ,you say that you have a    
dog4  ,yes1 a villain of a one1 said    
,ctesippus4  ,and he has puppies8  ,yes1
 and they are very like himself4  ,and  
the dog is the father of them8  ,yes1 he
 said1 ,i certainly saw him and the     
mother of the puppies come together4    
,and is he not yours8  ,to be sure he   
is4  ,then he is a father1 and he is    
yours2 ergo1 he is your father1 and the 
puppies are your brothers4  ,let me ask 
you one little question more1 said      

,dionysodorus1 quickly interposing1 in  
order that ,ctesippus might not get in  
his word3 ,you beat this dog8           
,ctesippus said1 laughing1 ,indeed ,i   
do2 and ,i only wish that ,i could beat 
you instead of him4  ,then you beat your
 father1 he said4  ,i should have far   
more reason to beat yours1 said         
,ctesippus2 what could he have been     
thinking of when he begat such wise     
sons8 much good has this father of you  
and your brethren the puppies got out of
 this wisdom of yours4  ,but neither he 
nor you1 ,ctesippus1 have any need of   
much good4  ,and have you no need1      
,euthydemus8 he said4  ,neither ,i nor  
any other man2 for tell me now1         
,ctesippus1 if you think it good or evil
 for a man who is sick to drink medicine
 when he wants it2 or to go to war armed
 rather than unarmed4  ,good1 ,i say4   
,and yet ,i know that ,i am going to be 
caught in one of your charming puzzles4 
,that1 he replied1 you will discover1 if
 you answer2 since you admit medicine to

 be good for a man to drink1 when       
wanted1 must it not be good for him to  
drink as much as possible2 when he takes
 his medicine1 a cartload of hellebore  
will not be too much for him8           
,ctesippus said3 ,quite so1 ,euthydemus1
 that is to say1 if he who drinks is as 
big as the statue of ,delphi4  ,and     
seeing that in war to have arms is a    
good thing1 he ought to have as many    
spears and shields as possible8  ,very  
true1 said ,ctesippus2 and do you think1
 ,euthydemus1 that he ought to have one 
shield only1 and one spear8  ,i do4     
,and would you arm ,geryon and ,briareus
 in that way8 ,considering that you and 
your companion fight in armour1 ,i      
thought that you would have known       
better444,here ,euthydemus held his     
peace1 but ,dionysodorus returned to the
 previous answer of ,ctesippus and      
said3--  ,do you not think that the     
possession of gold is a good thing8     
,yes1 said ,ctesippus1 and the more the 
better4  ,and to have money everywhere  

and always is a good8  ,certainly1 a    
great good1 he said4  ,and you admit    
gold to be a good8  ,certainly1 he      
replied4  ,and ought not a man then to  
have gold everywhere and always1 and as 
much as possible in himself1 and may he 
not be deemed the happiest of men who   
has three talents of gold in his belly1 
and a talent in his pate1 and a stater  
of gold in either eye8  ,yes1           
,euthydemus1 said ,ctesippus2 and the   
,scythians reckon those who have gold in
 their own skulls to be the happiest and
 bravest of men 7that is only another   
instance of your manner of speaking     
about the dog and father71 and what is  
still more extraordinary1 they drink out
 of their own skulls gilt1 and see the  
inside of them1 and hold their own head 
in their hands4  ,and do the ,scythians 
and others see that which has the       
quality of vision1 or that which has    
not8 said ,euthydemus4  ,that which has 
the quality of vision clearly4  ,and you
 also see that which has the quality of 

vision8 he said4 ,note3 the ambiguity of
 7,greek71 'things visible and able to  
see1' 7,greek71 'the speaking of the    
silent1' the silent denoting either the 
speaker or the subject of the speech1   
cannot be perfectly rendered in         
,english4 ,compare ,aristot4 ,soph4     
,elenchi 7,poste's translation73--  ',of
 ambiguous propositions the following   
are instances3--  ',i hope that you the 
enemy may slay4  ',whom one knows1 he   
knows4 ,either the person knowing or the
 person known is here affirmed to know4 
',what one sees1 that one sees3 one sees
 a pillar3 ergo1 that one pillar sees4  
',what you ,,are holding1 that you are3 
you are holding a stone3 ergo1 a stone  
you are4  ',is a speaking of the silent 
possible8 ,the silent denotes either the
 speaker are the subject of speech4     
',there are three kinds of ambiguity of 
term or proposition4 ,the first is when 
there is an equal linguistic propriety  
in several interpretations2 the second  
when one is improper but customary2 the 

third when the ambiguity arises in the  
combination of elements that are in     
themselves unambiguous1 as in knowing   
letters4 ,knowing and letters are       
perhaps separately unambiguous1 but in  
combination may imply either that the   
letters are known1 or that they         
themselves have knowledge4 ,such are the
 modes in which propositions and terms  
may be ambiguous4'  ,yes1 ,i do4  ,then 
do you see our garments8  ,yes4  ,then  
our garments have the quality of vision4
  ,they can see to any extent1 said     
,ctesippus4  ,what can they see8        
,nothing2 but you1 my sweet man1 may    
perhaps imagine that they do not see2   
and certainly1 ,euthydemus1 you do seem 
to me to have been caught napping when  
you were not asleep1 and that if it be  
possible to speak and say nothing--you  
are doing so4  ,and may there not be a  
silence of the speaker8 said            
,dionysodorus4  ,impossible1 said       
,ctesippus4  ,or a speaking of the      
silent8  ,that is still more impossible1

 he said4  ,but when you speak of       
stones1 wood1 iron bars1 do you not     
speak of the silent8  ,not when ,i pass 
a smithy2 for then the iron bars make a 
tremendous noise and outcry if they are 
touched3 so that here your wisdom is    
strangely mistaken2 please1 however1 to 
tell me how you can be silent when      
speaking 7,i thought that ,ctesippus was
 put upon his mettle because ,cleinias  
was present74  ,when you are silent1    
said ,euthydemus1 is there not a silence
 of all things8  ,yes1 he said4  ,but if
 speaking things are included in all    
things1 then the speaking are silent4   
,what1 said ,ctesippus2 then all things 
are not silent8  ,certainly not1 said   
,euthydemus4  ,then1 my good friend1 do 
they all speak8  ,yes2 those which      
speak4  ,nay1 said ,ctesippus1 but the  
question which ,i ask is whether all    
things are silent or speak8  ,neither   
and both1 said ,dionysodorus1 quickly   
interposing2 ,i am sure that you will be
 'non-plussed' at that answer4  ,here   

,ctesippus1 as his manner was1 burst    
into a roar of laughter2 he said1 ,that 
brother of yours1 ,euthydemus1 has got  
into a dilemma2 all is over with him4   
,this delighted ,cleinias1 whose        
laughter made ,ctesippus ten times as   
uproarious2 but ,i cannot help thinking 
that the rogue must have picked up this 
answer from them2 for there has been no 
wisdom like theirs in our time4 ,why do 
you laugh1 ,cleinias1 ,i said1 at such  
solemn and beautiful things8  ,why1     
,socrates1 said ,dionysodorus1 did you  
ever see a beautiful thing8  ,yes1      
,dionysodorus1 ,i replied1 ,i have seen 
many4  ,were they other than the        
beautiful1 or the same as the beautiful8
  ,now ,i was in a great quandary at    
having to answer this question1 and ,i  
thought that ,i was rightly served for  
having opened my mouth at all3 ,i said  
however1 ,they are not the same as      
absolute beauty1 but they have beauty   
present with each of them4  ,and are you
 an ox because an ox is present with    

you1 or are you ,dionysodorus1 because  
,dionysodorus is present with you8  ,god
 forbid1 ,i replied4  ,but how1 he said1
 by reason of one thing being present   
with another1 will one thing be another8
  ,is that your difficulty8 ,i said4    
,for ,i was beginning to imitate their  
skill1 on which my heart was set4  ,of  
course1 he replied1 ,i and all the world
 are in a difficulty about the          
non-existent4  ,what do you mean1       
,dionysodorus8 ,i said4 ,is not the     
honourable honourable and the base base8
  ,that1 he said1 is as ,i please4  ,and
 do you please8  ,yes1 he said4  ,and   
you will admit that the same is the     
same1 and the other other2 for surely   
the other is not the same2 ,i should    
imagine that even a child will hardly   
deny the other to be other4 ,but ,i     
think1 ,dionysodorus1 that you must have
 intentionally missed the last question2
 for in general you and your brother    
seem to me to be good workmen in your   
own department1 and to do the           

dialectician's business excellently     
well4  ,what1 said he1 is the business  
of a good workman8 tell me1 in the first
 place1 whose business is hammering8    
,the smith's4  ,and whose the making of 
pots8  ,the potter's4  ,and who has to  
kill and skin and mince and boil and    
roast8  ,the cook1 ,i said4  ,and if a  
man does his business he does rightly8  
,certainly4  ,and the business of the   
cook is to cut up and skin2 you have    
admitted that8  ,yes1 ,i have admitted  
that1 but you must not be too hard upon 
me4  ,then if some one were to kill1    
mince1 boil1 roast the cook1 he would do
 his business1 and if he were to hammer 
the smith1 and make a pot of the potter1
 he would do their business4  ,poseidon1
 ,i said1 this is the crown of wisdom2  
can ,i ever hope to have such wisdom of 
my own8  ,and would you be able1        
,socrates1 to recognize this wisdom when
 it has become your own8  ,certainly1 ,i
 said1 if you will allow me4  ,what1 he 
said1 do you think that you know what is

 your own8  ,yes1 ,i do1 subject to your
 correction2 for you are the bottom1 and
 ,euthydemus is the top1 of all my      
wisdom4  ,is not that which you would   
deem your own1 he said1 that which you  
have in your own power1 and which you   
are able to use as you would desire1 for
 example1 an ox or a sheep--would you   
not think that which you could sell and 
give and sacrifice to any god whom you  
pleased1 to be your own1 and that which 
you could not give or sell or sacrifice 
you would think not to be in your own   
power8  ,yes1 ,i said 7for ,i was       
certain that something good would come  
out of the questions1 which ,i was      
impatient to hear72 yes1 such things1   
and such things only are mine4  ,yes1 he
 said1 and you would mean by animals    
living beings8  ,yes1 ,i said4  ,you    
agree then1 that those animals only are 
yours with which you have the power to  
do all these things which ,i was just   
naming8  ,i agree4  ,then1 after a      
pause1 in which he seemed to be lost in 

the contemplation of something great1 he
 said3 ,tell me1 ,socrates1 have you an 
ancestral ,zeus8 ,here1 anticipating the
 final move1 like a person caught in a  
net1 who gives a desperate twist that he
 may get away1 ,i said3 ,no1            
,dionysodorus1 ,i have not4  ,what a    
miserable man you must be then1 he said2
 you are not an ,athenian at all if you 
have no ancestral gods or temples1 or   
any other mark of gentility4  ,nay1     
,dionysodorus1 ,i said1 do not be rough2
 good words1 if you please2 in the way  
of religion ,i have altars and temples1 
domestic and ancestral1 and all that    
other ,athenians have4  ,and have not   
other ,athenians1 he said1 an ancestral 
,zeus8  ,that name1 ,i said1 is not to  
be found among the ,ionians1 whether    
colonists or citizens of ,athens2 an    
ancestral ,apollo there is1 who is the  
father of ,ion1 and a family ,zeus1 and 
a ,zeus guardian of the phratry1 and an 
,athene guardian of the phratry4 ,but   
the name of ancestral ,zeus is unknown  

to us4  ,no matter1 said ,dionysodorus1 
for you admit that you have ,apollo1    
,zeus1 and ,athene4  ,certainly1 ,i     
said4  ,and they are your gods1 he said4
  ,yes1 ,i said1 my lords and ancestors4
  ,at any rate they are yours1 he said1 
did you not admit that8  ,i did1 ,i     
said2 what is going to happen to me8    
,and are not these gods animals8 for you
 admit that all things which have life  
are animals2 and have not these gods    
life8  ,they have life1 ,i said4  ,then 
are they not animals8  ,they are        
animals1 ,i said4  ,and you admitted    
that of animals those are yours which   
you could give away or sell or offer in 
sacrifice1 as you pleased8  ,i did admit
 that1 ,euthydemus1 and ,i have no way  
of escape4  ,well then1 said he1 if you 
admit that ,zeus and the other gods are 
yours1 can you sell them or give them   
away or do what you will with them1 as  
you would with other animals8  ,at this 
,i was quite struck dumb1 ,crito1 and   
lay prostrate4 ,ctesippus came to the   

rescue4  ,bravo1 ,heracles1 brave words1
 said he4  ,bravo ,heracles1 or is      
,heracles a ,bravo8 said ,dionysodorus4 
,poseidon1 said ,ctesippus1 what awful  
distinctions4 ,i will have no more of   
them2 the pair are invincible4  ,then1  
my dear ,crito1 there was universal     
applause of the speakers and their      
words1 and what with laughing and       
clapping of hands and rejoicings the two
 men were quite overpowered2 for        
hitherto their partisans only had       
cheered at each successive hit1 but now 
the whole company shouted with delight  
until the columns of the ,lyceum        
returned the sound1 seeming to          
sympathize in their joy4 ,to such a     
pitch was ,i affected myself1 that ,i   
made a speech1 in which ,i acknowledged 
that ,i had never seen the like of their
 wisdom2 ,i was their devoted servant1  
and fell to praising and admiring of    
them4 ,what marvellous dexterity of wit1
 ,i said1 enabled you to acquire this   
great perfection in such a short time8  

,there is much1 indeed1 to admire in    
your words1 ,euthydemus and             
,dionysodorus1 but there is nothing that
 ,i admire more than your magnanimous   
disregard of any opinion--whether of the
 many1 or of the grave and reverend     
seigniors--you regard only those who are
 like yourselves4 ,and ,i do verily     
believe that there are few who are like 
you1 and who would approve of such      
arguments2 the majority of mankind are  
so ignorant of their value1 that they   
would be more ashamed of employing them 
in the refutation of others than of     
being refuted by them4 ,i must further  
express my approval of your kind and    
public-spirited denial of all           
differences1 whether of good and evil1  
white or black1 or any other2 the result
 of which is that1 as you say1 every    
mouth is sewn up1 not excepting your    
own1 which graciously follows the       
example of others2 and thus all ground  
of offence is taken away4 ,but what     
appears to me to be more than all is1   

that this art and invention of yours has
 been so admirably contrived by you1    
that in a very short time it can be     
imparted to any one4 ,i observed that   
,ctesippus learned to imitate you in no 
time4 ,now this quickness of attainment 
is an excellent thing2 but at the same  
time ,i would advise you not to have any
 more public entertainments2 there is a 
danger that men may undervalue an art   
which they have so easy an opportunity  
of acquiring2 the exhibition would be   
best of all1 if the discussion were     
confined to your two selves2 but if     
there must be an audience1 let him only 
be present who is willing to pay a      
handsome fee2--you should be careful of 
this2--and if you are wise1 you will    
also bid your disciples discourse with  
no man but you and themselves4 ,for only
 what is rare is valuable2 and 'water1' 
which1 as ,pindar says1 is the 'best of 
all things1' is also the cheapest4 ,and 
now ,i have only to request that you    
will receive ,cleinias and me among your

 pupils4  ,such was the discussion1     
,crito2 and after a few more words had  
passed between us we went away4 ,i hope 
that you will come to them with me1     
since they say that they are able to    
teach any one who will give them money2 
no age or want of capacity is an        
impediment4 ,and ,i must repeat one     
thing which they said1 for your especial
 benefit1--that the learning of their   
art did not at all interfere with the   
business of money-making4  ,,crito3     
,truly1 ,socrates1 though ,i am curious 
and ready to learn1 yet ,i fear that ,i 
am not like-minded with ,euthydemus1 but
 one of the other sort1 who1 as you were
 saying1 would rather be refuted by such
 arguments than use them in refutation  
of others4 ,and though ,i may appear    
ridiculous in venturing to advise you1  
,i think that you may as well hear what 
was said to me by a man of very         
considerable pretensions--he was a      
professor of legal oratory--who came    
away from you while ,i was walking up   

and down4 ',crito1' said he to me1 'are 
you giving no attention to these wise   
men8' ',no1 indeed1' ,i said to him2 ',i
 could not get within hearing of        
them--there was such a crowd4' ',you    
would have heard something worth hearing
 if you had4' ',what was that8' ,i said4
 ',you would have heard the greatest    
masters of the art of rhetoric          
discoursing4' ',and what did you think  
of them8' ,i said4 ',what did ,i think  
of them8' he said3--'theirs was the sort
 of discourse which anybody might hear  
from men who were playing the fool1 and 
making much ado about nothing4' ,that   
was the expression which he used4       
',surely1' ,i said1 'philosophy is a    
charming thing4' ',charming6' he said2  
'what simplicity6 philosophy is nought2 
and ,i think that if you had been       
present you would have been ashamed of  
your friend--his conduct was so very    
strange in placing himself at the mercy 
of men who care not what they say1 and  
fasten upon every word4 ,and these1 as  

,i was telling you1 are supposed to be  
the most eminent professors of their    
time4 ,but the truth is1 ,crito1 that   
the study itself and the men themselves 
are utterly mean and ridiculous4' ,now  
censure of the pursuit1 ,socrates1      
whether coming from him or from others1 
appears to me to be undeserved2 but as  
to the impropriety of holding a public  
discussion with such men1 there1 ,i     
confess that1 in my opinion1 he was in  
the right4  ,,socrates3 ,o ,crito1 they 
are marvellous men2 but what was ,i     
going to say8 ,first of all let me      
know2--,what manner of man was he who   
came up to you and censured philosophy2 
was he an orator who himself practises  
in the courts1 or an instructor of      
orators1 who makes the speeches with    
which they do battle8  ,,crito3 ,he was 
certainly not an orator1 and ,i doubt   
whether he had ever been into court2 but
 they say that he knows the business1   
and is a clever man1 and composes       
wonderful speeches4  ,,socrates3 ,now ,i

 understand1 ,crito2 he is one of an    
amphibious class1 whom ,i was on the    
point of mentioning--one of those whom  
,prodicus describes as on the           
border-ground between philosophers and  
statesmen--they think that they are the 
wisest of all men1 and that they are    
generally esteemed the wisest2 nothing  
but the rivalry of the philosophers     
stands in their way2 and they are of the
 opinion that if they can prove the     
philosophers to be good for nothing1 no 
one will dispute their title to the palm
 of wisdom1 for that they are themselves
 really the wisest1 although they are   
apt to be mauled by ,euthydemus and his 
friends1 when they get hold of them in  
conversation4 ,this opinion which they  
entertain of their own wisdom is very   
natural2 for they have a certain amount 
of philosophy1 and a certain amount of  
political wisdom2 there is reason in    
what they say1 for they argue that they 
have just enough of both1 and so they   
keep out of the way of all risks and    

conflicts and reap the fruits of their  
wisdom4  ,,crito3 ,what do you say of   
them1 ,socrates8 ,there is certainly    
something specious in that notion of    
theirs4  ,,socrates3 ,yes1 ,crito1 there
 is more speciousness than truth2 they  
cannot be made to understand the nature 
of intermediates4 ,for all persons or   
things1 which are intermediate between  
two other things1 and participate in    
both of them--if one of these two things
 is good and the other evil1 are better 
than the one and worse than the other2  
but if they are in a mean between two   
good things which do not tend to the    
same end1 they fall short of either of  
their component elements in the         
attainment of their ends4 ,only in the  
case when the two component elements    
which do not tend to the same end are   
evil is the participant better than     
either4 ,now1 if philosophy and         
political action are both good1 but tend
 to different ends1 and they participate
 in both1 and are in a mean between     

them1 then they are talking nonsense1   
for they are worse than either2 or1 if  
the one be good and the other evil1 they
 are better than the one and worse than 
the other2 only on the supposition that 
they are both evil could there be any   
truth in what they say4 ,i do not think 
that they will admit that their two     
pursuits are either wholly or partly    
evil2 but the truth is1 that these      
philosopher-politicians who aim at both 
fall short of both in the attainment of 
their respective ends1 and are really   
third1 although they would like to stand
 first4 ,there is no need1 however1 to  
be angry at this ambition of            
theirs--which may be forgiven2 for every
 man ought to be loved who says and     
manfully pursues and works out anything 
which is at all like wisdom3 at the same
 time we shall do well to see them as   
they really are4  ,,crito3 ,i have often
 told you1 ,socrates1 that ,i am in a   
constant difficulty about my two sons4  
,what am ,i to do with them8 ,there is  

no hurry about the younger one1 who is  
only a child2 but the other1            
,critobulus1 is getting on1 and needs   
some one who will improve him4 ,i cannot
 help thinking1 when ,i hear you talk1  
that there is a sort of madness in many 
of our anxieties about our children3--in
 the first place1 about marrying a wife 
of good family to be the mother of them1
 and then about heaping up money for    
them--and yet taking no care about their
 education4 ,but then again1 when ,i    
contemplate any of those who pretend to 
educate others1 ,i am amazed4 ,to me1 if
 ,i am to confess the truth1 they all   
seem to be such outrageous beings3 so   
that ,i do not know how ,i can advise   
the youth to study philosophy4          
,,socrates3 ,dear ,crito1 do you not    
know that in every profession the       
inferior sort are numerous and good for 
nothing1 and the good are few and beyond
 all price3 for example1 are not        
gymnastic and rhetoric and money-making 
and the art of the general1 noble arts8 

,,crito3 ,certainly they are1 in my     
judgment4  ,,socrates3 ,well1 and do you
 not see that in each of these arts the 
many are ridiculous performers8         
,,crito3 ,yes1 indeed1 that is very     
true4  ,,socrates3 ,and will you on this
 account shun all these pursuits        
yourself and refuse to allow them to    
your son8  ,,crito3 ,that would not be  
reasonable1 ,socrates4  ,,socrates3 ,do 
you then be reasonable1 ,crito1 and do  
not mind whether the teachers of        
philosophy are good or bad1 but think   
only of philosophy herself4 ,try and    
examine her well and truly1 and if she  
be evil seek to turn away all men from  
her1 and not your sons only2 but if she 
be what ,i believe that she is1 then    
follow her and serve her1 you and your  
house1 as the saying is1 and be of good 
cheer4