,,the ,,symposium ,by ,xenophon ,translation by ,h4 ,g4 ,dakyns ,xenophon the ,athenian was born #dca ,b4,c4 ,he was a pupil of ,socrates4 ,he marched with the ,spartans1 and was exiled from ,athens4 ,sparta gave him land and property in ,scillus1 where he lived for many years before having to move once more1 to settle in ,corinth4 ,he died in #ced ,b4,c4 ,the ,symposium records the discussion of ,socrates and company at a dinner given by ,callias for the youth ,autolycus4 ,dakyns believed that ,plato knew of this work1 and that it influenced him to some degree when he wrote his own ,symposium4 ,,preparer',s ,,note ,this was typed from ,dakyns' series1 ,the ,works of ,xenophon1 a four-volume set4 ,the complete list of ,xenophon's works 7though there is doubt about some of these7 is3 ,work ,number of books ,the ,anabasis #g ,the ,hellenica #g ,the ,cyropaedia #h ,the ,memorabilia #d ,the ,symposium #a ,the ,economist #a ,on ,horsemanship #a ,the ,sportsman #a ,the ,cavalry ,general #a ,the ,apology #a ,on ,revenues #a ,the ,hiero #a ,the ,agesilaus #a ,the ,polity of the ,athenians and the ,lacedaemonians #b ,text in brackets is my transliteration of ,greek text into ,english using an ,oxford ,english ,dictionary alphabet table4 ,the diacritical marks have been lost4 ,,the ,,symposium or ,the ,banquet ,i ,for myself1 7#a7 ,i hold to the opinion that not alone are the serious transactions of good and noble men 7#b7 most memorable1 but that words and deeds distinctive of their lighter moods may claim some record4 7#c7 ,in proof of which contention1 ,i will here describe a set of incidents within the scope of my experience4 7#d7 7#a7 ,see ,aristid4 ii4 foll4 7#b7 ,or1 nature's noblemen4 7#c7 ,cf4 ,plut4 ,ages4 #bi 7,clough1 iv4 #ce73 ,and indeed if1 as ,xenophon says1 in conversation good men1 even in their sports and at their wine1 let fall many sayings that are worth preserving4 ,see ,grote1 ,plato1 ii4 #bbh foll4 as to the sportive character of the work4 7#d7 ,or1 let me describe a scene which ,i was witness of4 ,see ,hug4 ,plat4 ,symp4 p4 xv4 foll4 ,the occasion was a horse-race 7#e7 at the great ,panathenaic festival4 7#f7 ,callias1 7#g7 the son of ,hipponicus1 being a friend and lover of the boy ,autolycus1 7#h7 had brought the lad1 himself the winner of the pankration1 7#i7 to see the spectacle4 7#e7 ,see ,hipparch1 ii4 #a4 7#f7 ,held towards the end of ,july 7,hecatombaeon7 every year1 and with greater pomp every four years 7the third of each ,olympiad74--,gow1 #hd1 #abi1 n4 7#g7 ,callias4 ,cobet1 ,pros4 ,x4 p4 #fg foll42 ,boeckh1 ,p4 ,e4 ,a4 p4 #dha4 7#h7 ,see ,cobet1 op4 cit4 p4 #ed2 ,plut4 ,lysand4 #ae 7,clough1 iii4 #abj72 ,grote1 ,h4 ,g4 ix4 #bfa4 7#i7 #dbj ,b4,c41 al4 #dba4 ,the date is fixed by the ,autolycus of ,eupolis4 ,see ,athen4 v4 #baf4 ,for the pankration1 which comprised wrestling and boxing1 see ,aristot4 ,rhet4 i4 ,s4 #ad4 ,as soon as the horse race was over1 7#aj7 ,callias proceeded to escort ,autolycus and his father1 ,lycon1 to his house in the ,piraeus1 being attended also by ,niceratus4 7#aa7 ,but catching sight of ,socrates along with certain others 7,critobulus1 7#ab7 ,hermogenes1 ,antisthenes1 and ,charmides71 he bade an attendant conduct the party with ,autolycus1 whilst he himself approached the group1 exclaiming3 7#aj7 ,see ,a4 ,martin1 op4 cit4 p4 #bfe4 7#aa7 ,niceratus4 ,see ,cobet1 op4 cit4 #ga2 ,boeckh1 ,p4 ,e4 ,a4 #dhj2 ,plat4 ,lach4 #bjj ,c2 ,hell4 ,,ii4 iii4 #ci2 ,lys4 xviii42 ,diod4 xiv4 #e4 7#ab7 ,critobulus1 ,hermogenes1 ,antisthenes1 ,charmides4 ,see ,mem4 ,a happy chance brings me across your path1 just when ,i am about to entertain ,autolycus and his father at a feast4 ,the splendour of the entertainment shall be much enhanced1 ,i need not tell you1 if my hall 7#ac7 should happily be graced by worthies like yourselves1 who have attained to purity of soul1 7#ad7 rather than by generals and cavalry commanders 7#ae7 and a crowd of place-hunters4 7#af7 7#ac7 ,or1 dining-room4 ,see ,becker1 ,charicles1 #bfe4 7#ad7 ,see ,grote1 ,h4 ,g4 viii4 #fai foll4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,rep4 #ebg ,d2 ,soph4 #bcj ,e4 7#ae7 ,lit4 ,strategoi1 ,hipparchs4 7#af7 ,or1 petitioners for offices of state4 ,reading spoudarkhiais4 ,whereat ,socrates3 ,when will you have done with your gibes1 ,callias8 ,why1 because you have yourself spent sums of money on ,protagoras1 7#ag7 and ,gorgias1 and ,prodicus1 and a host of others1 to learn wisdom1 must you pour contempt on us poor fellows1 who are but self-taught tinkers 7#ah7 in philosophy compared with you8 7#ag7 ,as to ,protagoras of ,abdera1 ,gorgias of ,leontini1 ,prodicus of ,ceos1 see ,plat4 ,prot4 #cad ,c1 ,rep4 x4 #fjj ,c1 ,apol4 #ai ,e2 ,anab4 ,,ii4 vi4 #ag2 ,mem4 ,,ii4 i4 #ba2 ,encyc4 ,brit4 ,sophists1 ,h4 ,jackson4 7#ah7 ,or1 hand-to-mouth cultivators of philosophy1 roturiers4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,rep4 #efe ,a3 ,a third class who work for themselves2 ,thuc4 i4 #ada3 ,the ,peloponnesians cultivate their own soil1 and they have no wealth either public or private4 ,cf4 ,econ4 v4 #d4 ,hitherto1 no doubt 7retorted ,callias71 although ,i had plenty of wise things to say1 ,i have kept my wisdom to myself2 but if only you will honour me with your company to-day1 ,i promise to present myself in quite another light2 you will see ,i am a person of no mean consideration after all4 7#ai7 7#ai7 ,or1 ,i will prove to you that ,i am worthy of infinite respect4 ,socrates and the others1 while thanking ,callias politely for the invitation1 were not disposed at first to join the dinner party2 but the annoyance of the other so to be put off was so obvious that in the end the party were persuaded to accompany their host4 ,after an interval devoted to gymnastic exercise 7and subsequent anointing of the limbs7 by some1 whilst others of them took a bath1 the guests were severally presented to the master of the house4 ,autolycus was seated next his father1 as was natural1 7#bj7 while the rest reclined on couches4 ,noting the scene presented1 the first idea to strike the mind of any one must certainly have been that beauty has by nature something regal in it2 and the more so1 if it chance to be combined 7as now in the person of ,autolycus7 with modesty and self-respect4 ,even as when a splendid object blazes forth at night1 the eyes of men are riveted1 7#ba7 so now the beauty of ,autolycus drew on him the gaze of all2 nor was there one of those onlookers but was stirred to his soul's depth by him who sat there4 7#bb7 ,some fell into unwonted silence1 while the gestures of the rest were equally significant4 7#bj7 ,al4 ,autolycus found a seat beside his father1 while the rest reclined on couches in the usual fashion4 ,see ,schneider's note4 7#ba7 ,passage imitated by ,max4 ,tyr4 ,or4 xxiv4 #d4 7#bb7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,charm4 #aed4 ,it seems the look betokening divine possession1 no matter who the god1 must ever be remarkable4 ,only1 whilst the subject of each commoner emotion passion-whirled may be distinguished by flashings of the eye1 by terror-striking tones of voice1 and by the vehement fervour of the man's whole being1 so he who is inspired by temperate and harmonious love 7#bc7 will wear a look of kindlier welcome in his eyes2 the words he utters fall from his lips with softer intonation2 and every gesture of his bodily frame conform to what is truly frank and liberal4 ,such1 at any rate1 the strange effects now wrought on ,callias by love4 ,he was like one transformed1 the cynosure of all initiated in the mysteries of this divinity4 7#bd7 7#bc7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,rep4 iii4 #djc ,a3 ,whereas true love is a love of beauty and order1 temperate and harmonious4 7#bd7 ,cf4 ,econ4 xxi4 #ab4 ,so they supped in silence1 the whole company1 as if an injunction had been laid upon them by some superior power4 ,but presently there came a knocking on the door6 ,philippus the jester bade the doorkeeper 7#be7 announce him1 with apologies for seeking a night's lodging3 7#bf7 he had come1 he said1 provided with all necessaries for dining1 at a friend's expense3 his attendant was much galled with carrying1 nothing but an empty bread-basket4 7#bg7 ,to this announcement ,callias1 appealing to his guests1 replied3 ,it would never do to begrudge the shelter of one's roof3 7#bh7 let him come in4 ,and as he spoke1 he glanced across to where ,autolycus was seated1 as if to say3 ,i wonder how you take the jest4 7#be7 ,lit4 him who answers the knock1 the concierge or hall-porter4 ,cf4 ,theophr4 ,char4 xiv4 #g2 ,aristot4 ,oec4 i4 #f4 7#bf7 ,lit4 and why he wished to put up4 7#bg7 ,lit4 and being breakfastless2 cf4 ,theocr4 i4 #ea4 ,the jester's humour resembles ,pistol's 7,merry ,wives1 i4 #c4 #bc7 ,o base ,hungarian wight6 7#bh7 ,or1 ,how say you1 my friends1 it would hardly do1 methinks1 to shut the door upon him4 ,see ,becker1 ,charicles1 p4 #ib4 ,meanwhile the jester1 standing at the door of the apartment where the feast was spread1 addressed the company3 ,i believe you know1 sirs1 that being a jester by profession1 it is my business to make jokes4 ,i am all the readier1 therefore1 to present myself1 feeling convinced it is a better joke to come to dinner thus unbidden than by solemn invitation4 ,be seated1 7#bi7 then 7replied the host74 ,the company are fully fed on serious thoughts1 you see1 if somewhat starved of food for laughter4 7#bi7 ,lit4 ,pray1 find a couch then4 ,the feast proceeded2 and1 if only to discharge the duty laid upon him at a dinner-party1 ,philippus must try at once to perpetrate a jest4 ,failing to stir a smile1 poor fellow1 he made no secret of his perturbation4 ,presently he tried again2 and for the second time the joke fell flat4 ,whereat he paused abruptly in the middle of the course1 and muffling up his face1 fell prostrate on the couch4 ,then ,callias3 ,what ails you1 sirrah8 ,have you the cramp8 the toothache8 what8 ,to which the other heaving a deep groan3 ,yes1 ,callias1 an atrocious ache2 since laughter has died out among mankind1 my whole estate is bankrupt4 7#cj7 ,in old days ,i would be asked to dinner to amuse the company with jests4 7#ca7 ,now all is changed1 and who will be at pains to ask me out to dinner any more8 ,i might as well pretend to be immortal as to be serious4 ,nor will any one invite me in hopes of reclining at my board in his turn4 ,everyone knows so serious a thing as dinner in my house was never heard of2 it's against the rules--the more's the pity4 7#cj7 ,cf4 ,cyrop4 ,,vi4 i4 #c2 ,plat4 ,laws1 #fgg ,c4 7#ca7 ,lit4 by the laughter which ,i stirred in them4 ,and as he spoke he blew his nose and snuffled1 uttering the while so truly dolorous a moan 7#cb7 that everybody fell to soothing him4 ,they would all laugh again another day1 they said1 and so implored him to have done and eat his dinner2 till ,critobulus could not stand his lamentation longer1 but broke into a peal of laughter4 ,the welcome sound sufficed4 ,the sufferer unveiled his face1 and thus addressed his inner self3 7#cc7 ,be of good cheer1 my soul1 there are many battles 7#cd7 yet in store for us1 and so he fell to discussing the viands once again4 7#cb7 ,philippus would seem to have anticipated ,mr4 ,woodward2 see ,prologue to ,she ,stoops to ,conquer3 ,pray1 would you know the reason ,i'm crying8 ,the ,comic ,muse long sick is now a-dying6 ,and if she goes444 7#cc7 ,cf4 ,cyrop4 ,i4 iv4 #ac2 ,eur4 ,med4 #ajef1 #abdb2 ,aristoph4 ,ach4 #ceg1 #dhj4 7#cd7 ,or add1 ere we have expended our last shot4 ,philippus puns on the double sense of sumbolai4 ,cf4 ,aristoph4 ,ach4 #abaj1 where ,lamachus groans talas ego xumboles bareias1 and ,dicaeopolis replies tois ,khousi gar tis xumbolas epratteto4 ,lam4 ',twas at the final charge2 ,i'd paid before ,a number of the rogues2 at least a score4 ,dic4 ,it was a most expensive charge you bore3 ,poor ,lamachus6 he was forced to pay the score4 ,h4 ,frere4 ,,ii ,now the tables were removed1 and in due order they had poured out the libation1 and had sung the hymn4 7#a7 ,to promote the revelry1 there entered now a ,syracusan1 with a trio of assistants3 the first1 a flute-girl1 perfect in her art2 and next1 a dancing-girl1 skilled to perform all kinds of wonders2 lastly1 in the bloom of beauty1 a boy1 who played the harp and danced with infinite grace4 ,this ,syracusan went about exhibiting his troupe1 whose wonderful performance was a source of income to him4 7#a7 ,see ,plat4 ,symp4 #agf ,a2 ,athen4 ix4 #djh4 ,after the girl had played to them upon the flute1 and then the boy in turn upon the harp1 and both performers1 as it would appear1 had set the hearts of every one rejoicing1 ,socrates turned to ,callias3 ,a feast1 upon my word1 ,o princeliest entertainer6 7#b7 ,was it not enough to set before your guests a faultless dinner1 but you must feast our eyes and ears on sights and sounds the most delicious8 7#b7 ,lit4 in consummate style4 ,to which the host3 ,and that reminds me1 a supply of unguents might not be amiss2 7#c7 what say you8 ,shall we feast on perfumes also8 7#d7 7#c7 ,lit4 suppose ,i tell the servant to bring in some perfumes1 so that we may further feast on fragrance444 ,cf4 ,theophr4 ,char4 vii4 #f 7,jebb ad loc47 7#d7 ,see ,athen4 xv4 #fhf4 ,no1 ,i protest 7the other answered74 ,scents resemble clothes4 ,one dress is beautiful on man and one on woman2 and so with fragrance3 what becomes the woman1 ill becomes the man4 ,did ever man anoint himself with oil of myrrh to please his fellow8 ,women1 and especially young women 7like our two friends' brides1 ,niceratus' and ,critobulus'71 need no perfume1 being but compounds themselves of fragrance4 7#e7 ,no1 sweeter than any perfume else to women is good olive-oil1 suggestive of the training-school3 7#f7 sweet if present1 and when absent longed for4 ,and why8 ,distinctions vanish with the use of perfumes4 ,the freeman and the slave have forthwith both alike one odour4 ,but the scents derived from toils--those toils which every free man loves 7#g7--need customary habit first1 and time's distillery1 if they are to be sweet with freedom's breath1 at last4 7#h7 7#e7 ,cf4 ,solomon's ,song1 iv4 #aj3 ,how fair is thy love1 my sister1 my spouse6 how much better is thy love than wine6 and the smell of thine ointments than all spices6 7#f7 ,lit4 the gymnasium4 7#g7 ,cf4 ,aristoph4 ,clouds1 #ajjb foll4 ,see ,j4 ,a4 ,symonds1 ,the ,greek ,poets1 #ast s41 p4 #bha4 7#h7 ,see ,mem4 ,,iii4 x4 #e2 ,cyrop4 ,,viii4 i4 #dc4 ,here ,lycon interposed3 ,that may be well enough for youths1 but what shall we do whose gymnastic days are over8 ,what fragrance is left for us8 ,soc4 ,why1 that of true nobility1 of course4 ,lyc4 ,and whence shall a man obtain this chrism8 ,soc4 ,not from those that sell perfumes and unguents1 in good sooth4 ,lyc4 ,but whence1 then8 ,soc4 ,theognis has told us3 ,from the good thou shalt learn good things1 but if with the evil ,thou holdest converse1 thou shalt lose the wit that is in thee4 7#i7 7#i7 ,theog4 #ce foll4 ,see ,mem4 ,i4 ii4 #bj2 ,plat4 ,men4 #ie ,d4 ,lyc4 7turning to his son74 ,do you hear that1 my son8 ,that he does 7,socrates answered for the boy71 and he puts the precept into practice also2 to judge1 at any rate1 from his behaviour4 ,when he had set his heart on carrying off the palm of victory in the pankration1 he took you into his counsel2 7#aj7 and will again take counsel to discover the fittest friend to aid him in his high endeavour1 7#aa7 and with this friend associate4 7#aj7 ,it looks as if something had been lost intimating that ,autolycus would have need of some one to instruct him in spiritual things4 ,for attempts to fill up the lacuna see ,schenkl4 7#aa7 ,or1 these high pursuits4 ,thereupon several of the company exclaimed at once4 ,where will he find a teacher to instruct him in that wisdom8 one inquired4 ,why1 it is not to be taught6 exclaimed another2 to which a third rejoined3 ,why should it not be learnt as well as other things8 7#ab7 7#ab7 ,cf4 for the question ei arete didakton1 ,mem4 ,i4 ii4 #ai2 ,,iv4 i2 ,cyrop4 ,,iii4 i4 #ag2 ,,iii4 iii4 #ec4 ,then ,socrates3 ,the question would seem at any rate to be debatable4 ,suppose we defer it till another time1 and for the present not interrupt the programme of proceedings4 ,i see1 the dancing-girl is standing ready2 they are handing her some hoops4 ,and at the instant her fellow with the flute commenced a tune to keep her company1 whilst some one posted at her side kept handing her the hoops till she had twelve in all4 ,with these in her hands she fell to dancing1 and the while she danced she flung the hoops into the air--overhead she sent them twirling--judging the height they must be thrown to catch them1 as they fell1 in perfect time4 7#ac7 7#ac7 ,in time with the music and the measure of the dance4 ,then ,socrates3 ,the girl's performance is one proof among a host of others1 sirs1 that woman's nature is nowise inferior to man's4 ,all she wants is strength and judgment2 7#ad7 and that should be an encouragement to those of you who have wives1 to teach them whatever you would have them know as your associates4 7#ae7 7#ad7 ,reading1 as vulg4 gnomes de kai iskhuos deitai2 al4 continuing ouden from the first half of the sentence1 transl4 she has no lack of either judgment or physical strength4 ,lange conj4 romes for gnomes1 all she needs is force and strength of body4 ,see ,newman1 op4 cit4 i4 #dai4 7#ae7 ,lit4 so that1 if any of you has a wife1 he may well take heart and teach her whatever he would wish her to know in dealing with her4 ,cf4 ,n4 ,a4 i4 #ag4 ,antisthenes rejoined3 ,if that is your conclusion1 ,socrates1 why do you not tutor your own wife1 ,xanthippe1 7#af7 instead of letting her 7#ag7 remain1 of all the wives that are1 indeed that ever will be1 ,i imagine1 the most shrewish8 7#af7 ,see ,cobet1 ,pros4 ,xen4 p4 #ef2 ,mem4 ,,ii4 ii4 #a2 ,aul4 ,gell4 ,n4 ,a4 i4 #ag4 7#ag7 ,lit4 dealing with her1 finding in her2 khro corresponding to khresthai in ,socrates' remarks4 ,well now1 ,i will tell you 7he answered74 ,i follow the example of the rider who wishes to become an expert horseman3 ,none of your soft-mouthed1 docile animals for me1 he says2 the horse for me to own must show some spirit3 7#ah7 in the belief1 no doubt1 if he can manage such an animal1 it will be easy enough to deal with every other horse besides4 ,and that is just my case4 ,i wish to deal with human beings1 to associate with man in general2 hence my choice of wife4 7#ai7 ,i know full well1 if ,i can tolerate her spirit1 ,i can with ease attach myself to every human being else4 7#ah7 ,lit4 ,because ,i see the man who aims at skill in horsemanship does not care to own a soft-mouthed1 docile animal1 but some restive1 fiery creature4 7#ai7 ,lit4 being anxious to have intercourse with all mankind1 to deal with every sort of human being1 ,i possess my wife4 ,a well-aimed argument1 not wide of the mark by any means6 7#bj7 the company were thinking4 7#bj7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,theaet4 #agi ,c4 ,hereupon a large hoop studded with a bristling row of upright swords 7#ba7 was introduced2 and into the centre of this ring of knives and out of it again the girl threw somersaults backwards1 forwards1 several times1 till the spectators were in terror of some accident2 but with the utmost coolness and without mishap the girl completed her performance4 7#ba7 ,see ,becker1 ,char4 p4 #aja4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,symp4 #aij2 ,euthyd4 #bid4 ,here ,socrates1 appealing to ,antisthenes3 ,none of the present company1 ,i take it1 who have watched this spectacle will ever again deny that courage can be taught1 7#bb7 when the girl there1 woman should she be1 rushes so boldly into the midst of swords4 7#bb7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,,iii4 ix4 #a4 ,he1 thus challenged1 answered3 ,no2 and what our friend1 the ,syracusan here1 should do is to exhibit his dancing-girl to the state4 7#bc7 ,let him tell the authorities he is prepared1 for a consideration1 to give the whole ,athenian people courage to face the hostile lances at close quarters4 7#bc7 ,or1 to the city1 i4e4 of ,athens4 ,whereat the jester3 ,an excellent idea1 upon my word2 and when it happens1 may ,i be there to see that mighty orator 7#bd7 ,peisander learning to throw somersaults 7#be7 into swords2 since incapacity to look a row of lances in the face at present makes him shy of military service4 7#bf7 7#bd7 ,or1 tribune of the people4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,gorg4 #ebj ,b2 ,laws1 #ijh ,d4 7#be7 ,or1 learning to go head over heels into swords4 7#bf7 ,for ,peisander see ,cobet1 ,pros4 ,xen4 p4 #df foll4 ,a thoroughgoing oligarch 7,thuc4 viii4 #ij71 he was the occasion of much mirth to the comic writers 7so ,grote1 ,h4 ,g4 viii4 #ab74 ,see re his want of spirit ,aristoph4 ,birds1 #aeef3 entha kai ,peisandros elthe deomenos psukhen idein1 e zont ekeinon proulipe1 k4t4l4 where the poet has a fling at ,socrates also3 ,socrates beside the brink1 ,summons from the murky sink ,many a disembodied ghost2 ,and ,peisander reached the coast ,to raise the spirit that he lost2 ,with conviction strange and new1 ,a gawky camel which he slew1 ,like ,ulysses4--,whereupon1 etc4 ,h4 ,frere ,cf4 ,peace1 #cie2 ,lysistr4 #dij4 ,at this stage of the proceedings the boy danced4 ,the dance being over1 ,socrates exclaimed3 ,pray1 did you notice how the beauty of the child1 so lovely in repose1 became enhanced with every movement of his supple body8 ,to which ,charmides replied3 ,how like a flatterer you are6 one would think you had set yourself to puff the dancing-master4 7#bg7 7#bg7 ,see ,the ,critic1 ,i4 ii4 ,to be sure 7he answered solemnly72 and there's another point ,i could not help observing3 how while he danced no portion of his body remained idle2 neck and legs and hands together1 one and all were exercised4 7#bh7 ,that is how a man should dance1 who wants to keep his body light and healthy4 7#bi7 7,then turning to the ,syracusan1 he added73 ,i cannot say how much obliged ,i should be to you1 ,o man of ,syracuse1 for lessons in deportment4 ,pray teach me my steps4 7#cj7 7#bh7 ,cf4 ,pol4 ,lac4 v4 #i4 7#bi7 ,cf4 ,aristot4 ,h4 ,a4 vi4 #ba4 #d4 7#cj7 ,gestures1 postures1 figures4 ,see ,eur4 ,cycl4 #bba2 ,aristoph4 ,peace1 #cbc2 ,isocr4 ,antid4 #ahc4 ,and what use will you make of them8 7the other asked74 ,god bless me6 ,i shall dance1 of course 7he answered74 ,the remark was greeted with a peal of merriment4 ,then ,socrates1 with a most serious expression of countenance3 7#ca7 ,you are pleased to laugh at me4 ,pray1 do you find it so ridiculous my wishing to improve my health by exercise8 or to enjoy my victuals better8 to sleep better8 or is it the sort of exercise ,i set my heart on8 ,not like those runners of the long race1 7#cb7 to have my legs grow muscular and my shoulders leaner in proportion2 nor like a boxer1 thickening chest and shoulders at expense of legs2 but by distribution of the toil throughout my limbs 7#cc7 ,i seek to give an even balance to my body4 ,or are you laughing to think that ,i shall not in future have to seek a partner in the training school1 7#cd7 whereby it will not be necessary for an old man like myself to strip in public8 7#ce7 ,all ,i shall need will be a seven-sofa'd chamber1 7#cf7 where ,i can warm to work1 7#cg7 just like the lad here who has found this room quite ample for the purpose4 ,and in winter ,i shall do gymnastics 7#ch7 under cover1 or when the weather is broiling under shade4444 ,but what is it you keep on laughing at--the wish on my part to reduce to moderate size a paunch a trifle too rotund8 ,is that the source of merriment8 7#ci7 ,perhaps you are not aware1 my friends1 that ,charmides--yes6 he there--caught me only the other morning in the act of dancing8 7#ca7 ,bearing a weighty and serious brow4 7#cb7 ,like your runner of the mile race4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,prot4 #cce ,e4 7#cc7 ,or1 resolute exercise of the whole body4 ,see ,aristot4 ,pol4 viii4 #d4 #i2 ,rhet4 i4 #e4 #ad4 7#cd7 ,or1 be dependent on a fellow-gymnast4 ,pol4 ,lac4 ix4 #e2 ,plat4 ,soph4 #bah ,b2 ,laws1 #hcj ,b2 ,symp4 #bag ,b1 ,c4 7#ce7 ,or1 to strip in public when my hair turns gray4 ,socrates was 7#dba ,b4,c47 about #ej1 but is pictured1 ,i think1 as an oldish man4 7#cf7 ,see ,aristot4 ,h4 ,a4 ix4 #de4 #a2 ,econ4 viii4 #ac4 7#cg7 ,passage referred to by ,diog4 ,laert4 ii4 #e4 #ae2 ,lucian1 de ,salt4 #be2 ,plut4 ,praec4 ,san4 #dif4 7#ch7 ,take my exercise4 7#ci7 ,zeune cf4 ,max4 ,tyr4 ,diss4 vii4 #i2 xxxix4 #e4 ,yes1 that ,i will swear to 7the other answered71 and at first ,i stood aghast1 ,i feared me you had parted with your senses2 but when ,i heard your explanation1 pretty much what you have just now told us1 ,i went home and--,i will not say1 began to dance myself 7it is an accomplishment ,i have not been taught as yet71 but ,i fell to sparring1 7#dj7 an art of which ,i have a very pretty knowledge4 7#dj7 ,sparring1 etc41 an art which ,quintil4 ,inst4 ,or4 i4 #aa1 #ag1 attributes to ,socrates4 ,cf4 ,herod4 vi4 #abi concerning ,hippocleides2 and ,rich1 ,dict4 of ,antiq4 s4v4 ,chironomia4 ,that's true1 upon my life6 7exclaimed the jester74 ,one needs but look at you to see there's not a dram of difference between legs and shoulders4 7#da7 ,i'll be bound1 if both were weighed in the scales apart1 like tops and bottoms1 the clerks of the market 7#db7 would let you off scot-free4 7#da7 ,lit4 your legs are equal in weight with your shoulders4 ,cf4 ,od4 xviii4 #cgc1 elikes444 isophoroi boes1 of equal age and force to bear the yoke4--,butcher and ,lang4 7#db7 ,see ,boeckh1 ,public ,economy of ,athens1 p4 #dh2 ,aristoph4 ,acharn4 #gbc2 ,lys4 #afe1 #cd4 ,then ,callias3 ,o ,socrates1 do please invite me when you begin your dancing lessons4 ,i will be your vis-a-vis1 7#dc7 and take lessons with you4 7#dc7 ,cf4 ,anab4 ,v4 iv4 #ab4 ,come on 7the jester shouted71 give us a tune upon the pipe1 and let me show you how to dance4 ,so saying up he got1 and mimicked the dances of the boy and girl in burlesque fashion1 and inasmuch as the spectators had been pleased to think the natural beauty of the boy enhanced by every gesture of his body in the dance1 so the jester must give a counter-representation1 7#dd7 in which each twist and movement of his body was a comical exaggeration of nature4 7#dd7 ,reading antepedeizen4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,theaet4 #afb ,b2 ,ages4 i4 #ab2 if vulg4 antapedeizen1 transl4 would prove per contra each bend1 etc4 ,cf4 ,aristot4 ,rhet4 ii4 #bf4 #c4 ,and since the girl had bent herself backwards and backwards1 till she was nearly doubled into the form of a hoop1 so he must try to imitate a hoop by stooping forwards and ducking down his head4 ,and as finally1 the boy had won a round of plaudits for the manner in which he kept each muscle of the body in full exercise whilst dancing1 so now the jester1 bidding the flute-girl quicken the time 7presto6 presto6 prestissimo671 fell to capering madly1 tossing legs and arms and head together1 until he was fairly tired out1 and threw himself dead beat upon the sofa1 gasping3 ,there1 that's a proof that my jigs too are splendid exercise2 at any rate1 ,i am dying of thirst2 let the attendant kindly fill me the mighty goblet4 7#de7 7#de7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,symp4 #bbc ,c4 ,quite right 7said ,callias71 and we will pledge you4 ,our throats are parched with laughing at you4 ,at this point ,socrates3 ,nay1 gentlemen1 if drinking is the order of the day1 ,i heartily approve4 ,wine it is in very truth that moistens the soul of man1 7#df7 that lulls at once all cares to sleep1 even as mandragora 7#dg7 drugs our human senses1 and at the same time kindles light-hearted thoughts1 7#dh7 as oil a flame4 ,yet it fares with the banquets of men1 7#di7 if ,i mistake not1 precisely as with plants that spring and shoot on earth4 ,when ,god gives these vegetable growths too full a draught of rain1 they cannot lift their heads nor feel the light air breathe through them2 but if they drink in only the glad supply they need1 they stand erect1 they shoot apace1 and reach maturity of fruitage4 ,so we1 too1 if we drench our throats with over-copious draughts1 7#ej7 ere long may find our legs begin to reel and our thoughts begin to falter2 7#ea7 we shall scarce be able to draw breath1 much less to speak a word in season4 ,but if 7to borrow language from the mint of ,gorgias 7#eb771 if only the attendants will bedew us with a frequent mizzle 7#ec7 of small glasses1 we shall not be violently driven on by wine to drunkenness1 but with sweet seduction reach the goal of sportive levity4 7#df7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,laws1 #fdi2 ,aristoph4 ,knights1 #if3 ,come1 quick now1 bring me a lusty stoup of wine1 ,to moisten my understanding and inspire me 7,h4 ,frere74 7#dg7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,rep4 vi4 #dhh ,c2 ,dem4 ,phil4 iv4 #acc4 #a2 ,lucian v41 ,tim4 #b2 lxxiii41 ,dem4 ,enc4 #cf4 ,see ,othello1 iii4 #c4 #ccj3 ,not poppy1 nor mandragora1 ,nor all the drowsy syrups of the world2 ,antony and ,cl4 i4 #e1 #d4 7#dh7 ,cf4 #a ,esdras iii4 #bj3 ,it turneth also every thought into jollity and mirth1 eis euokhian kai euphrosunen4 ,the whole passage is quoted by ,athen4 #ejd4 ,stob4 ,fl4 lvi4 #ag4 7#di7 ,reading sumposia1 cf4 ,theog4 #bih1 #dif2 or if after ,athen4 somata transl4 persons4 7#ej7 ,or1 if we swallow at a gulp the liquor4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,sym4 #agf ,d4 7#ea7 ,see ,cyrop4 ,i4 iii4 #aj1 ,,viii4 viii4 #aj2 ,aristoph4 ,wasps1 #acbd2 ,pol4 ,lac4 v4 #g4 7#eb7 ,for phrases filed by ,gorgias1 see ,aristot4 ,rhet4 iii4 #c2 faults of taste in the use of metaphors1 ,longin4 de ,subl4 #c4 ,see also ,plat4 ,symp4 #aih ,c4 7#ec7 ,cf4 ,aristoph4 ,peace1 #aada2 ,theophr4 ,lap4 #ac2 ,lucian1 xvii41 ,de merc4 cond4 #bg2 ,cic4 ,cat4 m4 #ad1 transl4 pocula444 minuta atque rorantia4 ,the proposition was unanimously carried1 with a rider appended by ,philippus3 ,the cup-bearers should imitate good charioteers1 and push the cups round1 quickening the pace each circuit4 7#ed7 7#ed7 ,or1 at something faster than a hand-gallop each round4 ,see the drinking song in ,antony and ,cl4 i4 #g4 #abj4 ,,iii ,during this interval1 whilst the cup-bearers carried out their duties1 the boy played on the lyre tuned to accompany the flute1 and sang4 7#a7 7#a7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,laws1 #hab ,c2 ,aristot4 ,poet4 i4 #d4 ,the performance won the plaudits of the company1 and drew from ,charmides a speech as follows3 ,sirs1 what ,socrates was claiming in behalf of wine applies in my opinion no less aptly to the present composition4 ,so rare a blending of boyish and of girlish beauty1 and of voice with instrument1 is potent to lull sorrow to sleep1 and to kindle ,aphrodite's flame4 ,then ,socrates1 reverting in a manner to the charge3 ,the young people have fully proved their power to give us pleasure4 ,yet1 charming as they are1 we still regard ourselves1 no doubt1 as much their betters4 ,what a shame to think that we should here be met together1 and yet make no effort ourselves to heighten the festivity6 7#b7 7#b7 ,see ,plat4 ,prot4 #cdg ,d2 ,a company like this of ours1 and men such as we profess to be1 do not require the help of another's voice1 etc4--,jowett4 ,cf4 id4 ,symp4 #agf3 ,to-day let us have conversation instead2 and if you will allow me1 ,i will tell you what sort of conversation4 ,several of the company exclaimed at once3 ,be our director then yourself4 ,explain what style of talk we should engage in to achieve that object4 7#c7 7#c7 exegou4 ,prescribe the form of words we must lay hold of to achieve the object1 and we will set to work1 arch-casuist4 ,nothing 7he replied7 would please me better than to demand of ,callias a prompt performance of his promise4 ,he told us1 you recollect1 if we would dine with him1 he would give us an exhibition of his wisdom4 ,to which challenge ,callias3 ,that ,i will readily1 but you on your side1 one and all1 must propound some virtue of which you claim to have the knowledge4 ,socrates replied3 ,at any rate1 not one of us will have the least objection to declaring what particular thing he claims to know as best worth having4 ,agreed 7proceeded ,callias72 and for my part ,i proclaim at once what ,i am proudest of4 ,my firm belief is1 ,i have got the gift to make my fellow-mortals better4 ,make men better6 7cried ,antisthenes72 and pray how8 by teaching them some base mechanic art8 or teaching them nobility of soul8 7#d7 7#d7 ,or1 beauty and nobility of soul 7kalokagathia74 ,see ,mem4 ,i4 vi4 #ad4 ,the latter 7he replied71 if justice 7#e7 be synonymous with that high type of virtue4 7#e7 i4e4 social uprightness4 ,of course it is 7rejoined ,antisthenes7 the most indisputable specimen4 ,since1 look you1 courage and wisdom may at times be found calamitous to friends or country1 7#f7 but justice has no single point in common with injustice1 right and wrong cannot commingle4 7#g7 7#f7 ,see ,mem4 ,,iv4 ii4 #cc4 7#g7 i4e4 the one excludes the other4 ,well then 7proceeded ,callias71 as soon 7#h7 as every one has stated his peculiar merit1 7#i7 ,i will make no bones of letting you into my secret4 ,you shall learn the art by which ,i consummate my noble end4 7#aj7 ,so now1 ,niceratus1 suppose you tell us on what knowledge you most pride yourself4 7#h7 ,reading emon4 ,al4 umon1 when you others4 7#i7 ,lit4 what he has for which to claim utility4 7#aj7 ,or1 give the work completeness4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,charm4 #agc ,a2 ,gorg4 #ded ,a4 ,he answered3 ,my father1 7#aa7 in his pains to make me a good man1 compelled me to learn the whole of ,homer's poems1 and it so happens that even now ,i can repeat the ,iliad and the ,odyssey by heart4 7#ab7 7#aa7 ,nicias4 7#ab7 ,of1 off-hand4 ,see ,mem4 ,,iii4 vi4 #i2 ,plat4 ,theaet4 #adb ,d4 ,you have not forgotten 7interposed ,antisthenes71 perhaps1 that besides yourself there is not a rhapsodist who does not know these epics8 ,forgotten6 is it likely 7he replied71 considering ,i had to listen to them almost daily8 ,ant4 ,and did you ever come across a sillier tribe of people than these same rhapsodists8 7#ac7 7#ac7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,,iv4 ii4 #aj4 ,nic4 ,not ,i1 indeed4 ,don't ask me to defend their wits4 ,it is plain 7suggested ,socrates71 they do not know the underlying meaning4 7#ad7 ,but you1 ,niceratus1 have paid large sums of money to ,anaximander1 and ,stesimbrotus1 and many others1 7#ae7 so that no single point in all that costly lore is lost upon you4 7#af7 ,but what 7he added1 turning to ,critobulus7 do you most pride yourself upon8 7#ad7 i4e4 they haven't the key 7of knowledge7 to the allegorical or spiritual meaning of the sacred text4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,crat4 #djg2 ,ion1 #ecd2 ,rep4 #cgh1 #chg2 ,theaet4 #ahj2 ,prot4 #caf4 ,see ,grote1 ,h4 ,g4 i4 #efd4 7#ae7 ,see ,aristot4 ,rhet4 iii4 #aa1 #ac4 ,or we may describe ,niceratus 7not improbably our friend7 as a ',philoctetes stung by ,pratys1' using the simile of ,thrasymachus when he saw ,niceratus after his defeat by ,pratys in the rhapsody with his hair still dishevelled and his face unwashed4--,welldon4 ,as to ,stesimbrotus1 see ,plat4 ,ion1 #ecj3 ,ion4 ,very true1 ,socrates2 interpretation has certainly been the most laborious part of my art2 and ,i believe myself able to speak about ,homer better than any man2 and that neither ,metrodorus of ,lampsacus1 nor ,stesimbrotus of ,thasos1 nor ,glaucon1 nor any one else who ever was1 had as good ideas about ,homer1 or as many of them1 as ,i have4--,jowett4 ,anaximander1 probably of ,lampsacus1 the author of a ',erologia2 see ,cobet1 ,pros4 ,xen4 p4 #h4 7#af7 ,or1 you will not have forgotten one point of all that precious teaching4 ,like ,sir ,john ,falstaff's page 7#b ,henry ,,iv4 ii4 #b4 #ajj71 ,niceratus1 no doubt1 has got many a crown's worth of good interpretations4 ,on beauty 7answered ,critobulus74 ,what 7,socrates rejoined71 shall you be able to maintain that by your beauty you can make us better8 ,crit4 ,that will ,i1 or prove myself a shabby sort of person4 ,soc4 ,well1 and what is it you pride yourself upon1 ,antisthenes8 ,on wealth 7he answered74 ,whereupon ,hermogenes inquired3 ,had he then a large amount of money8 7#ag7 7#ag7 i4e4 out at interest1 or1 in the funds1 as we should say4 ,not one sixpence3 7#ah7 that ,i swear to you 7he answered74 7#ah7 ,lit4 not an obol a threepenny bit1 circa4 ,herm4 ,then you possess large property in land8 ,ant4 ,enough1 ,i daresay1 for the youngster there1 ,autolycus1 to dust himself withal4 7#ai7 7#ai7 i4e4 to sprinkle himself with sand1 after anointing4 ,cf4 ,lucian1 xxxviii41 ,amor4 #de4 ,well1 we will lend you our ears1 when your turn comes 7exclaimed the others74 ,soc4 ,and do you now tell us1 ,charmides1 on what you pride yourself4 ,oh1 ,i1 for my part1 pride myself on poverty 7he answered74 ,upon my word1 a charming business6 7exclaimed ,socrates74 ,poverty6 of all things the least liable to envy2 seldom1 if ever1 an object of contention2 7#bj7 never guarded1 yet always safe2 the more you starve it1 the stronger it grows4 7#bj7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,rep4 #eba ,a2 ,laws1 #fgh ,c4 ,and you1 ,socrates1 yourself 7their host demanded71 what is it you pride yourself upon8 ,then he1 with knitted brows1 quite solemnly3 ,on pandering4 7#ba7 ,and when they laughed to hear him say this1 7#bb7 he continued3 ,laugh to your hearts content1 my friends2 but ,i am certain ,i could make a fortune1 if ,i chose to practise this same art4 7#ba7 ,or1 more politely1 on playing the go-between4 ,see ,grote1 ,h4 ,g4 viii4 #deg1 on the extremely ,aristophanic character of the ,symposium of ,xenophon4 7#bb7 ,him1 the master1 thus declare himself4 ,at this point ,lycon1 turning to ,philippus3 ,we need not ask you what you take the chiefest pride in4 ,what can it be1 you laughter-making man1 except to set folk laughing8 ,yes 7he answered71 and with better right1 ,i fancy1 than ,callippides1 7#bc7 the actor1 who struts and gives himself such pompous airs1 to think that he alone can set the crowds a-weeping in the theatre4 7#bd7 7#bc7 ,for illustrative tales about him see ,plut4 ,ages4 xxi42 ,alcib4 xxxii42 ,polyaen4 vi4 #aj4 ,cf4 ,hell4 ,,iv4 viii4 #af4 7#bd7 ,or1 set for their sins a-weeping4 ,and now you1 ,lycon1 tell us1 won't you 7asked ,antisthenes71 what it is you take the greatest pride in8 ,you all of you1 ,i fancy1 know already what that is 7the father answered72 it is in my son here4 ,and the lad himself 7some one suggested7 doubtless prides himself1 beyond all else1 on having won the prize of victory4 ,at that ,autolycus 7and as he spoke he blushed7 answered for himself3 7#be7 ,no indeed1 not ,i4 7#be7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,charm4 #aeh ,c4 ,the company were charmed to hear him speak1 and turned and looked2 and some one asked3 ,on what is it then1 ,autolycus8 ,to which he answered3 ,on my father 7and leaned closer towards him74 ,at which sight ,callias1 turning to the father3 ,do you know you are the richest man in the whole world1 ,lycon8 ,to which ,lycon3 ,really1 ,i was not aware of that before4 ,then ,callias3 ,why then1 it has escaped you that you would refuse the whole of ,persia's wealth1 7#bf7 in exchange for your own son4 7#bf7 ,lit4 of the ,great ,king4 ,cf4 ,cyrop4 ,,viii4 iii4 #bf4 ,most true 7he answered71 ,i plead guilty2 here and now ,i am convicted 7#bg7 of being the wealthiest man in all the world6 7#bg7 ,caught flagrante delicto4 ,i do admit ,i do out-,croesus ,croesus4 ,and you1 ,hermogenes1 on what do you plume yourself most highly8 7asked ,niceratus74 ,on the virtue and the power of my friends 7he answered71 and that being what they are1 they care for me4 ,at this remark they turned their eyes upon the speaker1 and several spoke together1 asking3 ,will you make them known to us8 ,i shall be very happy 7he replied74 ,,iv ,at this point1 ,socrates took up the conversation3 ,it now devolves on us to prove in turn that what we each have undertaken to defend is really valuable4 ,then ,callias3 ,be pleased to listen to me first3 ,my case is this1 that while the rest of you go on debating what justice and uprightness are1 7#a7 ,i spend my time in making men more just and upright4 7#a7 to to dikaion2 cf4 ,mem4 ,,iv4 iv4 ,soc4 ,and how do you do that1 good sir8 ,call4 ,by giving money1 to be sure4 ,antisthenes sprang to his feet at once1 and with the manner of a cross-examiner demanded3 ,do human beings seem to you to harbour justice in their souls1 or in their purses1 7#b7 ,callias8 7#b7 ,or1 pockets4 ,call4 ,in their souls4 ,ant4 ,and do you pretend to make their souls more righteous by putting money in their pockets8 ,call4 ,undoubtedly4 ,ant4 ,pray how8 ,call4 ,in this way4 ,when they know that they are furnished with the means1 that is to say1 my money1 to buy necessaries1 they would rather not incur the risk of evil-doing1 and why should they8 ,ant4 ,and pray1 do they repay you these same moneys8 ,call4 ,i cannot say they do4 ,ant4 ,well then1 do they requite your gifts of gold with gratitude8 ,call4 ,no1 not so much as a bare ,thank you4 ,in fact1 some of them are even worse disposed towards me when they have got my money than before4 ,now1 here's a marvel6 7exclaimed ,antisthenes1 and as he spoke he eyed the witness with an air of triumph74 ,you can render people just to all the world1 but towards yourself you cannot8 ,pray1 where's the wonder8 7asked the other74 ,do you not see what scores of carpenters and house-builders there are who spend their time in building houses for half the world2 but for themselves they simply cannot do it1 and are forced to live in lodgings4 ,and so admit that home-thrust1 ,master ,sophist2 7#c7 and confess yourself confuted4 7#c7 ,professor of wisdom4 ,upon my soul1 he had best accept his fate 7#d7 7said ,socrates74 ,why1 after all1 you are only like those prophets who proverbially foretell the future for mankind1 but cannot foresee what is coming upon themselves4 7#d7 ,or1 the coup de grace4 ,and so the first discussion ended4 7#e7 7#e7 ,or1 so ended fytte the first of the word-controversy4 ,thereupon ,niceratus3 ,lend me your ears1 and ,i will tell you in what respects you shall be better for consorting with myself4 ,i presume1 without my telling you1 you know that ,homer1 being the wisest of mankind1 has touched upon nearly every human topic in his poems4 7#f7 ,whosoever among you1 therefore1 would fain be skilled in economy1 or oratory1 or strategy2 whose ambition it is to be like ,achilles1 or ,ajax1 ,nestor1 or ,odysseus--one and all pay court to me1 for ,i have all this knowledge at my fingers' ends4 7#f7 ,or1 his creations are all but coextensive with every mortal thing4 ,pray 7interposed ,antisthenes71 7#g7 do you also know the way to be a king8 7#h7 since ,homer praises ,agamemnon1 you are well aware1 as being ,a goodly king and eke a spearman bold4 7#i7 7#g7 ,some modern critics 7e4g4 ,f4 ,dummler1 ,antisthenica1 p4 #bi foll47 maintain plausibly that the author is here glancing 7as also ,plato in the ,ion7 at ,antisthenes' own treatises against the ,rhapsodists and on a more correct interpretation of ,homer1 peri exegeton and peri ',omerou4 7#h7 ,or1 ,have you the knowledge also how to play the king8 7#i7 ,il4 iii4 #agi4 ,see ,mem4 ,,iii4 ii4 #b4 ,nic4 ,full well ,i know it1 and full well ,i know the duty of a skilful charioteer2 how he who holds the ribbons must turn his chariot nigh the pillar's edge 7#aj7 ,himself inclined upon the polished chariot-board ,a little to the left of the twin pair3 the right hand horse ,touch with the prick1 and shout a cheery shout1 and give him rein4 7#aa7 ,i know another thing besides1 and you may put it to the test this instant1 if you like4 ,homer somewhere has said3 7#ab7 ,and at his side an onion1 which to drink gives relish4 ,so if some one will but bring an onion1 you shall reap the benefit of my sage lore 7#ac7 in less than no time1 and your wine will taste the sweeter4 7#aj7 ,il4 xxiii4 #cce2 ,plat4 ,ion1 #ecg4 7#aa7 ,lit4 yield him the reins with his hands4 7#ab7 ,il4 xi4#fcj3 ,and set out a leek savourer of drink 7,purves74 ,plat4 ,ion1 #ech ,c4 7#ac7 ,my culinary skill4 ,here ,charmides exclaimed3 ,good sirs1 let me explain4 ,niceratus is anxious to go home1 redolent of onions1 so that his fair lady may persuade herself1 it never entered into anybody's head to kiss her lord4 7#ad7 7#ad7 ,see ,shakesp4 ,much ,ado1 v4 #b4 #ea foll42 ,mids4 ,n4 ,d4 iv4 #b4 ,bless me1 that isn't all 7continued ,socrates72 if we do not take care1 we shall win ourselves a comic reputation4 7#ae7 ,a relish must it be1 in very truth1 that can sweeten cup as well as platter1 this same onion2 and if we are to take to munching onions for desert1 see if somebody does not say of us1 ,they went to dine with ,callias1 and got more than their deserts1 the epicures4 7#af7 7#ae7 ,lit4 ,i warrant you6 7quoth ,socrates7 and there's another funny notion we have every chance of getting fathered on us4 7#af7 ,or1 and had a most hilarious and herbaceous time4 ,no fear of that 7rejoined ,niceratus74 ,always take a bite of onion before speeding forth to battle1 just as your patrons of the cock-pit give their birds a feed of garlic 7#ag7 before they put them for the fight4 ,but for ourselves our thoughts are less intent perhaps on dealing blows than blowing kisses4 7#ah7 7#ag7 ,cf4 ,aristoph4 ,knights1 #did3 ,chorus4 ,and here's the garlic4 ,swallow it down6 ,sausage ,seller4444 ,what for8 ,chorus4 ,it will prime you up and make you fight the better4 ,h4 ,frere4 7#ah7 ,we are concerned less with the lists of battle than of love2 we meditate no furious close of battle but of lips4 ,lit4 how we shall kiss some one rather than do battle with4 ,after such sort the theme of their discourse reached its conclusion4 ,then ,critobulus spoke3 ,it is now my turn1 ,i think1 to state to you the grounds on which ,i pride myself on beauty4 7#ai7 7#ai7 ,see ,hellenica ,essays1 p4 #cec4 ,a chorus of voices rejoined3 ,say on4 ,crit4 ,to begin with1 if ,i am not beautiful1 as methinks ,i be1 you will bring on your own heads the penalty of perjury2 for1 without waiting to have the oath administered1 you are always taking the gods to witness that you find me beautiful4 ,and ,i must needs believe you1 for are you not all honourable men8 7#bj7 ,if ,i then be so beautiful and affect you1 even as ,i also am affected by him whose fair face here attracts me1 7#ba7 ,i swear by all the company of heaven ,i would not choose the great king's empire in exchange for what ,i am--the beauty of the world1 the paragon of animals4 7#bb7 ,and at this instant ,i feast my eyes on ,cleinias 7#bc7 gladlier than on all other sights which men deem fair4 ,joyfully will ,i welcome blindness to all else1 if but these eyes may still behold him and him only4 ,with sleep and night ,i am sore vexed1 which rob me of his sight2 but to daylight and the sun ,i owe eternal thanks1 for they restore him to me1 my heart's joy1 ,cleinias4 7#bd7 7#bj7 ,or1 beautiful and good4 7#ba7 ,or1 whose fair face draws me4 ,was ,cleinias there as a muta persona8 ,hardly1 in spite of nun4 ,it is the image of him which is present to the mind's eye4 7#bb7 ,lit4 being beautiful2 but there is a touch of bombast infused into the speech by the artist4 ,cf4 the speech of ,callias 7,hell4 ,,vi4 iii4 #c7 and1 for the humour1 ,cyrop4 passim4 7#bc7 ,see ,cobet1 ,pros4 ,xen4 p4 #ei4 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,i4 iii4 #h4 7#bd7 ,or1 for that they reveal his splendour to me4 ,yes1 and herein also have we1 the beautiful1 7#be7 just claim to boast4 ,the strong man may by dint of toil obtain good things2 the brave1 by danger boldly faced1 and the wise by eloquence of speech2 but to the beautiful alone it is given to achieve all ends in absolute quiescence4 ,to take myself as an example4 ,i know that riches are a sweet possession1 yet sweeter far to me to give all that ,i have to ,cleinias than to receive a fortune from another4 ,gladly would ,i become a slave--ay1 forfeit freedom--if ,cleinias would deign to be my lord4 ,toil in his service were easier for me than rest from labour3 danger incurred in his behalf far sweeter than security of days4 ,so that if you1 ,callias1 may boast of making men more just and upright1 to me belongs by juster right than yours to train mankind to every excellence4 ,we are the true inspirers 7#bf7 who infuse some subtle fire into amorous souls1 we beauties1 and thereby raise them to new heights of being2 we render them more liberal in the pursuit of wealth2 we give them a zest for toil that mocks at danger1 and enables them where honour the fair vision leads1 to follow4 7#bg7 ,we fill their souls with deeper modesty1 a self-constraint more staunch2 about the things they care for most1 there floats a halo of protecting awe4 7#bh7 ,fools and unwise are they who choose not beauteous men to be their generals4 ,how merrily would ,i1 at any rate1 march through fire by the side of ,cleinias2 7#bi7 and so would all of you1 ,i know full well1 in company of him who now addresses you4 7#be7 ,we beauties4 7#bf7 ,the eispnelas in relation to the aitas1 the ,inspirer to the ,hearer4 ,cf4 ,theocr4 xii4 #ac2 ,ael4 ,v4 ,h4 iii4 #ab4 ,see ,muller1 ,dorians1 ii4 #cjj foll4 7#bg7 philokaloterous4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,phaedr4 #bdh ,d2 ,criti4 #aaa ,e2 ,aristot4 ,eth4 ,n4 iv4 #d4 #d2 x4 #i4 #c4 7#bh7 ,lit4 they feel most awe of what they most desire4 7#bi7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,i4 iii4 #i4 ,cease1 therefore1 your perplexity1 ,o ,socrates1 abandon fears and doubts1 believe and know that this thing of which ,i make great boast1 my beauty1 has power to confer some benefit on humankind4 ,once more1 let no man dare dishonour beauty1 merely because the flower of it soon fades1 since even as a child has growth in beauty1 so is it with the stripling1 the grown man1 the reverend senior4 7#cj7 ,and this the proof of my contention4 ,whom do we choose to bear the sacred olive-shoot 7#ca7 in honour of ,athena8--whom else save beautiful old men8 witnessing thereby 7#cb7 that beauty walks hand in hand as a companion with every age of life1 from infancy to eld4 7#cj7 ,cf4 ib4 ,,iii4 iii4 #ab4 7#ca7 ,cf4 ,aristoph4 ,wasps1 #edd4 7#cb7 ,or1 beauty steps in attendance lovingly hand in hand at every season of the life of man4 ,so ,walt ,whitman1 passim4 ,or again1 if it be sweet to win from willing hearts the things we seek for1 ,i am persuaded that1 by the eloquence of silence1 ,i could win a kiss from yonder girl or boy more speedily than ever you could1 ,o sage6 by help of half a hundred subtle arguments4 ,eh1 bless my ears1 what's that8 7,socrates broke in upon this final flourish of the speaker74 ,so beautiful you claim to rival me1 you boaster8 ,crit4 ,why1 yes indeed1 ,i hope so1 or else ,i should be uglier than all the ,silenuses in the ,satyric drama4 7#cc7 7#cc7 ,the ,,mss4 add 7to whom1 be it noted1 ,socrates indeed bore a marked resemblance74 ,obviously a gloss4 ,cf4 ,aristoph4 ,clouds1 #bbd2 ,plat4 ,symp4 #bae ,b4 ,good6 7,socrates rejoined72 the moment the programme of discussion is concluded1 7#cd7 please remember1 we must obtain a verdict on the point of beauty4 ,judgment shall be given--not at the bar of ,alexander1 son of ,priam--but of these 7#ce7 who1 as you flatter yourself1 have such a hankering to kiss you4 7#cd7 ,lit4 the arguments proposed have gone the round4 7#ce7 i4e4 the boy and girl4 ,al4 the present company1 who are so eager to bestow on you their kisses4 ,oh1 ,socrates 7he answered1 deprecatingly71 will you not leave it to the arbitrament of ,cleinias8 ,then ,socrates3 ,will you never tire of repeating that one name8 ,it is ,cleinias here1 there1 and everywhere with you4 ,crit4 ,and if his name died on my lips1 think you my mind would less recall his memory8 ,know you not1 ,i bear so clear an image of him in my soul1 that had ,i the sculptor's or the limner's skill1 ,i might portray his features as exactly from this image of the mind as from contemplation of his actual self4 ,but ,socrates broke in3 ,pray1 why then1 if you bear about this lively image1 why do you give me so much trouble1 dragging me to this and that place1 where you hope to see him8 ,crit4 ,for this good reason1 ,socrates1 the sight of him inspires gladness1 whilst his phantom brings not joy so much as it engenders longing4 ,at this point ,hermogenes protested3 ,i find it most unlike you1 ,socrates1 to treat thus negligently one so passion-crazed as ,critobulus4 ,socrates replied3 ,do you suppose the sad condition of the patient dates from the moment only of our intimacy8 ,herm4 ,since when1 then8 ,soc4 ,since when8 ,why1 look at him3 the down begins to mantle on his cheeks1 7#cf7 and on the nape 7#cg7 of ,cleinias' neck already mounts4 ,the fact is1 when they fared to the same school together1 he caught the fever4 ,this his father was aware of1 and consigned him to me1 hoping ,i might be able to do something for him4 ,ay1 and his plight is not so sorry now4 ,once he would stand agape at him like one whose gaze is fixed upon the ,gorgons1 7#ch7 his eyes one stony stare1 and like a stone himself turn heavily away4 ,but nowadays ,i have seen the statue actually blink4 7#ci7 ,and yet1 may ,heaven help me6 my good sirs1 ,i think1 between ourselves1 the culprit must have bestowed a kiss on ,cleinias1 than which love's flame asks no fiercer fuel4 7#dj7 ,so insatiable a thing it is and so suggestive of mad fantasy4 7,and for this reason held perhaps in higher honour1 because of all external acts the close of lip with lip bears the same name as that of soul with soul in love47 7#da7 ,wherefore1 say ,i1 let every one who wishes to be master of himself and sound of soul abstain from kisses imprinted on fair lips4 7#db7 7#cf7 ,lit4 creeping down beside his ears4 ,cf4 ,od4 xi4 #cai3 prin sphoin upo krotaphoisin ioulous anthesai pukasai te genus euanthei lakhne4 7,zeus destroyed the twain7 ere the curls had bloomed beneath their temples1 and darked their chins with the blossom of youth4 --,butcher and ,lang4 ,cf4 ,theocr4 xv4 #he3 praton ioulon apo krotaphon kataballon1 with the first down upon his cheeks 7,lang72 ,aesch4 ,theb4 #ecd4 7#cg7 pros to opisthen1 perhaps ad posteriorem capitis partem1 which would be more applicable to ,critobulus1 whose whiskers were just beginning to grow1 than to ,callias4 ,possibly we should read 7after ,pollux1 ii4 #aj7 peri ten upenen1 on the upper lip4 ,see ,plat4 ,protag4 #cji ,b2 ,il4 xxiv4 #cdh2 ,od4 x4 #bgi4 7#ch7 ,cf4 ,pind4 ,pyth4 x4 #ge4 7#ci7 ,see ,cyrop4 ,i4 iv4 #bh2 ,shakesp4 ,ven4 and ,ad4 #hi3 ,but when her lips were ready for his pay1 he winks1 and turns his lips another way4 7#dj7 ,or1 a kiss which is to passion as dry combustious matter is to fire1 ,shakesp4 ib4 #aafb4 7#da7 ,or1 is namesake of the love within the soul of lovers4 ,the whole passage1 involving a play on the words philein phileisthai1 where kisses rain without1 love reigns within1 is probably to be regarded as a gloss4 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,i4 iii4 #ac4 7#db7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,i4 iii4 #h-ad4 ,then ,charmides3 ,oh6 ,socrates1 why will you scare your friends with these hobgoblin terrors1 7#dc7 bidding us all beware of handsome faces1 whilst you yourself--yes1 by ,apollo1 ,i will swear ,i saw you at the schoolmaster's 7#dd7 that time when both of you were poring over one book1 in which you searched for something1 you and ,critobulus1 head to head1 shoulder to shoulder bare1 as if incorporate8 7#de7 7#dc7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,crit4 #df ,d2 ,hell4 ,,iv4 iv4 #ag2 ,arist4 ,birds1 #abde4 7#dd7 ,grammarian's4 ,plat4 ,protag4 #cab ,b2 #cbf ,d2 ,dem4 #cae4 #h4 7#de7 ,like ,hermia and ,helena1 ,mids4 ,n4 ,d4 iii4 #b4 #bjh4 ,as yes1 alack the day6 7he answered72 and that is why1 no doubt1 my shoulder ached for more than five days afterwards1 as if ,i had been bitten by some fell beast1 and methought ,i felt a sort of scraping at the heart4 7#df7 ,now therefore1 in the presence of these witnesses1 ,i warn you1 ,critobulus1 never again to touch me till you wear as thick a crop of hair 7#dg7 upon your chin as on your head4 7#df7 ,reading knisma1 scratching4 ,plat4 ,hipp4 maj4 #cjd ,a4 ,al4 knesma4 7#dg7 ,see ,jebb1 ,theophr4 ,ch4 xxiv4 #af4 ,so pell-mell they went at it1 half jest half earnest1 and so the medley ended4 ,callias here called on ,charmides4 ,call4 ,now1 ,charmides1 it lies with you to tell us why you pride yourself on poverty4 7#dh7 7#dh7 ,zeune1 cf4 ,cyrop4 ,,viii4 iii4 #ce-ej4 ,charmides responded3 ,on all hands it is admitted1 ,i believe1 that confidence is better than alarm2 better to be a freeman than a slave2 better to be worshipped than pay court to others2 better to be trusted than to be suspected by one's country4 ,well now1 ,i will tell you how it fared with me in this same city when ,i was wealthy4 ,first1 ,i lived in daily terror lest some burglar should break into my house and steal my goods and do myself some injury4 ,i cringed before informers4 7#di7 ,i was obliged to pay these people court1 because ,i knew that ,i could injure them far less than they could injure me4 ,never-ending the claims upon my pocket which the state enforced upon me2 and as to setting foot abroad1 that was beyond the range of possibility4 ,but now that ,i have lost my property across the frontier1 7#ej7 and derive no income from my lands in ,attica itself2 now that my very household goods have been sold up1 ,i stretch my legs at ease1 ,i get a good night's rest4 ,the distrust of my fellow-citizens has vanished2 instead of trembling at threats1 it is now my turn to threaten2 at last ,i feel myself a freeman1 with liberty to go abroad or stay at home as suits my fancy4 ,the tables now are turned4 ,it is the rich who rise to give me their seats1 who stand aside and make way for me as ,i meet them in the streets4 ,to-day ,i am like a despot1 yesterday ,i was literally a slave2 formerly it was ,i who had to pay my tribute 7#ea7 to the sovereign people1 now it is ,i who am supported by the state by means of general taxation4 7#eb7 7#di7 ,and police agents4 7#ej7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,,ii4 viii4 #a4 7#ea7 phoros1 tributum4 ,al4 property-tax4 ,cf4 ,econ4 ii4 #f4 7#eb7 telos1 vectigal4 ,sturz1 ,lex4 ,xen4 s4v4 ,cf4 ,pol4 ,ath4 i4 #c4 ,and there is another thing4 ,so long as ,i was rich1 they threw in my teeth as a reproach that ,i was friends with ,socrates1 but now that ,i am become a beggar no one troubles his head two straws about the matter4 ,once more1 the while ,i rolled in plenty ,i had everything to lose1 and1 as a rule1 ,i lost it2 what the state did not exact1 some mischance stole from me4 ,but now that is over4 ,i lose nothing1 having nought to lose2 but1 on the contrary1 ,i have everything to gain1 and live in hope of some day getting something4 7#ec7 7#ec7 ,i feed on the pleasures of hope1 and fortune in the future4 ,call4 ,and so1 of course1 your one prayer is that you may never more be rich1 and if you are visited by a dream of luck your one thought is to offer sacrifice to ,heaven to avert misfortune4 7#ed7 7#ed7 ,or1 you wake up in a fright1 and offer sacrifice to the ',averters4' ,for tois apotropaiois see ,aristoph4 ,plutus1 #cei2 ,plat4 ,laws1 #hed ,b2 ,hell4 ,,iii4 iii4 #d4 ,char4 ,no1 that ,i do not4 ,on the contrary1 ,i run my head into each danger most adventurously4 ,i endure1 if haply ,i may see a chance of getting something from some quarter of the sky some day4 ,come now 7,socrates exclaimed71 it lies with you1 sir1 you1 ,antisthenes1 to explain to us1 how it is that you1 with means so scanty1 make so loud a boast of wealth4 ,because 7he answered7 ,i hold to the belief1 sirs1 that wealth and poverty do not lie in a man's estate1 but in men's souls4 ,even in private life how many scores of people have ,i seen1 who1 although they roll in wealth1 yet deem themselves so poor1 there is nothing they will shrink from1 neither toil nor danger1 in order to add a little to their store4 7#ee7 ,i have known two brothers1 7#ef7 heirs to equal fortunes1 one of whom has enough1 more than enough1 to cover his expenditure2 the other is in absolute indigence4 ,and so to monarchs1 there are not a few1 ,i perceive1 so ravenous of wealth that they will outdo the veriest vagrants in atrocity4 ,want 7#eg7 prompts a thousand crimes1 you must admit4 ,why do men steal8 why break burglariously into houses8 why hale men and women captive and make slaves of them8 ,is it not from want8 ,nay1 there are monarchs who at one fell swoop destroy whole houses1 make wholesale massacre1 and oftentimes reduce entire states to slavery1 and all for the sake of wealth4 ,these ,i must needs pity for the cruel malady which plagues them4 ,their condition1 to my mind1 resembles that poor creature's who1 in spite of all he has 7#eh7 and all he eats1 can never stay the wolf that gnaws his vitals4 7#ee7 ,cf4 ,cyrop4 ,,viii4 ii4 #ba2 ,hor4 ,epist4 i4 #b4 #bf1 semper avarus eget4 7#ef7 ,is ,antisthenes thinking of ,callias and ,hermogenes8 7presuming these are sons of ,hipponicus and brothers74 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,,ii4 x4 #c4 7#eg7 ,or1 ',tis want that does it4 ,see ,pol4 ,ath4 i4 #e2 ,rev1 i4 #a4 7#eh7 ,reading ekhon1 or if pinon1 transl4 who eats and drinks1 but never sates himself4 ,but as to me1 my riches are so plentiful ,i cannot lay my hands on them myself2 7#ei7 yet for all that ,i have enough to eat till my hunger is stayed1 to drink till my thirst is sated2 7#fj7 to clothe myself withal2 and out of doors not ,callias there1 with all his riches1 is more safe than ,i from shivering2 and when ,i find myself indoors1 what warmer shirting 7#fa7 do ,i need than my bare walls8 what ampler greatcoat than the tiles above my head8 these seem to suit me well enough2 and as to bedclothes1 ,i am not so ill supplied but it is a business to arouse me in the morning4 7#ei7 ,that ,i can scarce discover any portion of it4 ,zeune cf4 ,econ4 viii4 #b4 7#fj7 ,so the master himself4 ,see ,mem4 ,i4 ii4 #a1 vi4 #e4 7#fa7 ,cf4 ,aristot4 ,pol4 ii4 #h4 #a1 of ,hippodamus4 ,and as to sexual desire1 my body's need is satisfied by what comes first to hand4 ,indeed1 there is no lack of warmth in the caress which greets me1 just because it is unsought by others4 7#fb7 7#fb7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,i4 iii4 #ad1 the germ of cynicism and stoicism1 the ,socratic ,,xs form of better to marry than to burn4 ,well then1 these several pleasures ,i enjoy so fully that ,i am much more apt to pray for less than more of them1 so strongly do ,i feel that some of them are sweeter than what is good for one or profitable4 ,but of all the precious things in my possession1 ,i reckon this the choicest1 that were ,i robbed of my whole present stock1 there is no work so mean1 but it would amply serve me to furnish me with sustenance4 ,why1 look you1 whenever ,i desire to fare delicately1 ,i have not to purchase precious viands in the market1 which becomes expensive1 but ,i open the storehouse of my soul1 and dole them out4 7#fc7 ,indeed1 as far as pleasure goes1 ,i find it better to await desire before ,i suffer meat or drink to pass my lips1 than to have recourse to any of your costly viands1 as1 for instance1 now1 when ,i have chanced on this fine ,thasian wine1 7#fd7 and sip it without thirst4 ,but indeed1 the man who makes frugality1 not wealth of worldly goods1 his aim1 is on the face of it a much more upright person4 ,and why8--the man who is content with what he has will least of all be prone to clutch at what is his neighbour's4 7#fc7 ,or1 turn to the storehouse of a healthy appetite4 ,see ,apol4 #ah1 the same sentiment ex ore ,socratis4 7#fd7 ,see ,athen4 ,deipnos4 i4 #bh4 ,and here's a point worth noting4 ,wealth of my sort will make you liberal of soul4 ,look at ,socrates2 from him it was ,i got these riches4 ,he did not supply me with it by weight or by measure1 but just as much as ,i could carry1 he with bounteous hand consigned to me4 ,and ,i1 too1 grudge it to no man now4 ,to all my friends without distinction ,i am ready to display my opulence3 come one1 come all2 and whosoever likes to take a share is welcome to the wealth that lies within my soul4 ,yes1 and moreover1 that most luxurious of possessions1 7#fe7 unbroken leisure1 you can see1 is mine1 which leaves me free to contemplate things worthy of contemplation1 7#ff7 and to drink in with my ears all charming sounds4 ,and what ,i value most1 freedom to spend whole days in pure scholastic intercourse 7#fg7 with ,socrates1 to whom ,i am devoted4 7#fh7 ,and he1 on his side1 is not the person to admire those whose tale of gold and silver happens to be the largest1 but those who are well-pleasing to him he chooses for companions1 and will consort with to the end4 7#fe7 ,see ,eur4 ,ion1 #fja4 ,lit4 at every moment ,i command it4 7#ff7 ,to gaze upon all fairest shows 7like a spectator in the theatre71 and to drink in sounds most delectable4 ,so ,walt ,whitman4 7#fg7 ,aristot4 ,rhet4 ii4 #d4 #ab2 ,eth4 ,n4 ix4 #d4 #i4 7#fh7 ,see ,mem4 ,,iii4 xi4 #ag4 ,with these words the speaker ended1 and ,callias exclaimed3 ,by ,hera1 ,i envy you your wealth1 ,antisthenes1 firstly1 because the state does not lay burthens on you and treat you like a slave2 and secondly1 people do not fall into a rage with you when you refuse to be their creditor4 ,you may stay your envy 7interposed ,niceratus71 ,i shall presently present myself to borrow of him this same key of his to independence4 7#fi7 ,trained as ,i am to cast up figures by my master ,homer-- ,seven tripods1 which ne'er felt the fire1 and of gold ten talents ,and burnished braziers twenty1 and horses twelve-- 7#gj7 by weight and measure duly reckoned1 7#ga7 ,i cannot stay my craving for enormous wealth4 ,and that's the reason certain people1 ,i daresay1 imagine ,i am inordinately fond of riches4 7#fi7 ,or1 his want-for-nothing1 or1 supply-all4 7#gj7 ,niceratus quotes ,il4 ix4 #abb1 #abc1 #bfc1 #bfd4 7#ga7 ,or1 by number and by measure1 so much apiece1 so much a pound1 in reference to ,antisthenes' remark that ,socrates does not stint his good things4 ,the remark drew forth a peal of laughter from the company1 who thought the speaker hit the truth exactly4 ,then some one3 ,it lies with you1 ,hermogenes1 to tell us who your friends are2 and next1 to demonstrate the greatness of their power and their care for you1 if you would prove to us your right to pride yoruself on them4 ,herm4 ,that the gods know all things1 that the present and the future lie before their eyes1 are tenets held by ,hellenes and barbarians alike4 ,this is obvious2 or else1 why do states and nations1 one and all1 inquire of the gods by divination what they ought to do and what they ought not8 ,this also is apparent1 that we believe them able to do us good and to do us harm2 or why do all men pray to ,heaven to avert the evil and bestow the good8 ,well then1 my boast is that these gods1 who know and can do all things1 7#gb7 deign to be my friends2 so that1 by reason of their care for me1 ,i can never escape from their sight1 7#gc7 neither by night nor by day1 whithersoever ,i essay to go1 whatsoever ,i take in hand to do4 7#gd7 ,but because they know beforehand the end and issue of each event1 they give me signals1 sending messengers1 be it some voice1 7#ge7 or vision of the night1 with omens of the solitary bird1 which tell me what ,i should and what ,i should not do4 ,when ,i listen to their warnings all goes well with me1 ,i have no reason to repent2 but if1 as ere now has been the case1 ,i have been disobedient1 chastisement has overtaken me4 7#gb7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,i4 i4 #ai2 ,i4 iv4 #ah4 7#gc7 ,schneid4 cf4 ,hom4 ,il4 x4 #bgi1 oude se letho kinomenos1 nor doth any motion of mine escape thee 7,a4 ,lang72 and see ,arrian1 ,epictet4 i4 #ab4 #c4 7#gd7 ,cf4 ,ps4 cxxxix4 ,domine probasti4 7#ge7 ,see ,mem4 ,i4 i4 #c2 ,apol4 xii4 #ac2 ,cyrop4 ,,viii4 vii4 #c4 ,then ,socrates3 ,all this ,i well believe1 7#gf7 but there is one thing ,i would gladly learn of you3 ,what service do you pay the gods1 so to secure their friendship8 7#gf7 ,lit4 ,nay1 nought of the things you tell us is incredible1 but444 ,truly it is not a ruinous service1 ,socrates 7he answered7--far from it4 ,i give them thanks1 which is not costly4 ,i make return to them of all they give to me from time to time4 ,i speak well of them1 with all the strength ,i have4 ,and whenever ,i take their sacred names to witness1 ,i do not wittingly falsify my word4 ,then ,god be praised 7said ,socrates71 if being what you are1 you have such friends2 the gods themselves1 it would appear1 delight in nobleness of soul4 7#gg7 7#gg7 kalokagathia1 beautiful and gentle manhood4 ,thus1 in solemn sort1 the theme was handled1 thus gravely ended4 ,but now it was the jester's turn1 and so they fell to asking him3 7#gh7 ,what could he see to pride himself upon so vastly in the art of making people laugh8 7#gh7 ,lit4 now that they had come to ,philippus 7in the 'period' of discussion71 they444 ,or read1 after ,hartman1 ,an4 ,xen4 p4 #bdb1 eken 7sc4 o logos74 ,surely ,i have good reason 7he replied74 ,the whole world knows my business is to set them laughing1 so when they are in luck's way1 they eagerly invite me to a share of it2 but if ill betide them1 helter-skelter off they go1 and never once turn back1 7#gi7 so fearful are they ,i may set them laughing will he nill he4 7#gi7 ,plat4 ,rep4 #fbj ,e2 ,laws1 #hed ,c4 ,nic4 ,heavens6 you have good reason to be proud2 with me it is just the opposite4 ,when any of my friends are doing well1 they take good care to turn their backs on me1 7#hj7 but if ever it goes ill with them1 they claim relationship by birth1 7#ha7 and will not let their long-lost cousin out of sight4 7#hj7 ,or1 they take good care to get out of my way1 they hold aloof from me entirely4 7#ha7 ,or1 produce the family-pedigree and claim me for a cousin4 ,cf4 ,lucian v41 ,tim4 #di2 ,ter4 ,phorm4 ii4 #cc1 #de4 ,charm4 ,well1 well6 and you1 sir 7turning to the ,syracusan71 what do you pride yourself upon8 ,no doubt1 upon the boy8 ,the ,syr4 ,not ,i1 indeed2 ,i am terribly afraid concerning him4 ,it is plain enough to me that certain people are contriving for his ruin4 7#hb7 7#hb7 diaphtheirai 7#a7 to destroy1 make away with2 7#b7 to ruin and corrupt1 seduce by bribes or otherwise4 ,good gracious6 7#hc7 7,socrates exclaimed1 when he heard that71 what crime can they conceive your boy is guilty of that they should wish to make an end of him8 7#hc7 ,lit4 ,heracles6 ,zounds6 ,the ,syr4 ,i do not say they want to murder him1 but wheedle him away with bribes to pass his nights with them4 ,soc4 ,and if that happened1 you on your side1 it appears1 believe the boy will be corrupted8 ,the ,syr4 ,beyond all shadow of a doubt1 most villainously4 ,soc4 ,and you1 of course1 you never dream of such a thing4 ,you don't spend nights with him8 ,the ,syr4 ,of course ,i do1 all night and every night4 ,soc4 ,by ,hera1 what a mighty piece of luck 7#hd7 for you--to be so happily compounded1 of such flesh and blood4 ,you alone can't injure those who sleep beside you4 ,you have every right1 it seems1 to boast of your own flesh1 if nothing else4 7#hd7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,symp4 #bag ,a4 ,the ,syr4 ,nay1 in sooth1 it is not on that ,i pride myself4 ,soc4 ,well1 on what then8 ,the ,syr4 ,why1 on the silly fools who come and see my puppet show4 7#he7 ,i live on them4 7#he7 ,my marionettes4 ,cf4 ,herod4 ii4 #dh2 ,lucian lxxii41 ,de ,syr4 d4 #af2 ,aristot4 de ,mund4 #f4 ,phil4 ,ah yes6 and that explains how the other day ,i heard you praying to the gods to grant you1 wheresoe'er you chance to be1 great store of corn and wine1 but dearth of wits4 7#hf7 7#hf7 ,or1 of fruits abundance1 but of wits a famine4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,rep4 #edf ,a4 ,his prayer resembles that of the thievish trader in ,ovid1 ,fast4 v4 #fge foll41 ,grant me to-day my daily444 fraud6 but in spite of himself 7like ,dogberry71 he seems to pray to the gods to write him down an ass6 ,pass on 7said ,callias72 now it is your turn1 ,socrates4 ,what have you to say to justify your choice8 ,how can you boast of so discredited an art8 7#hg7 7#hg7 ,sc4 the hold-door trade4 ,he answered3 ,let us first decide 7#hh7 what are the duties of the good go-between2 7#hi7 and please to answer every question without hesitating2 let us know the points to which we mutually assent4 7#ij7 ,are you agreed to that8 7#hh7 ,or1 define in common4 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,,iv4 vi4 #ae4 7#hi7 ,or1 man-praiser4 ,cf4 ,the ,manx ,witch1 p4 #dg 7,t4 ,e4 ,brown71 ,and ,harry1 more like a dooiney-molla ,for ,jack1 lak helpin him to woo4 ,see1 too1 ,mr4 ,hall ,caine's ,manxman1 p4 #gc4 7#ij7 ,see ,plat4 ,rep4 #cdb ,d1 for a specimen of ,socratic procedure1 from one point of agreement to another4 ,the ,company1 in chorus4 ,without a doubt 7they answered1 and the formula1 once started1 was every time repeated by the company1 full chorus74 ,soc4 ,are you agreed it is the business of a good go-between to make him 7or her7 on whom he plies his art agreeable to those with them8 7#ia7 7#ia7 ,al4 their followers4 ,see ,mem4 ,,ii4 vi4 #cf4 ,omnes4 ,without a doubt4 ,soc4 ,and1 further1 that towards agreeableness1 one step at any rate consists in wearing a becoming fashion of the hair and dress8 7#ib7 ,are you agreed to that8 7#ib7 ,see ,becker1 ,char4 ,exc4 iii4 to ,sc4 xi4 ,omnes4 ,without a doubt4 ,soc4 ,and we know for certain1 that with the same eyes a man may dart a look of love or else of hate 7#ic7 on those he sees4 ,are you agreed8 7#ic7 ,see ,mem4 ,,iii4 x4 #e4 ,omnes4 ,without a doubt4 ,soc4 ,well6 and with the same tongue and lips and voice may speak with modesty or boastfulnes8 ,omnes4 ,without a doubt4 ,soc4 ,and there are words that bear the stamp of hate1 and words that tend to friendliness8 7#id7 7#id7 ,cf4 ,ep4 ,st4 ,james iii4 #aj1 ,out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing4 ,omnes4 ,without a doubt4 ,soc4 ,the good go-between will therefore make his choice between them1 and teach only what conduces to agreeableness8 ,omnes4 ,without a doubt4 ,soc4 ,and is he the better go-between who can make his clients pleasing to one person only1 or can make them pleasing to a number8 7#ie7 7#ie7 ,or1 to the many4 ,the question is ambiguous4 e an or quam4 ,the company was here divided2 the one half answered1 ,yes1 of course1 the largest number1 whilst the others still maintained1 ,without a doubt4 ,and ,socrates1 remarking1 ,that proposition is agreed to also1 thus proceeded3 ,and if further he were able to make them pleasing to the whole community1 should we not have found in this accomplished person an arch-go-between8 ,clearly so 7they answered with one voice74 ,soc4 ,if then a man had power to make his clients altogether pleasing2 that man1 ,i say1 might justly pride himself upon his art1 and should by rights receive a large reward8 7#if7 7#if7 ,or1 he deserves to do a rattling business1 to take handsome fees4 ,cf4 ,sheridan's ,mrs4 ,coupler1 in ,a ,trip to ,scarborough4 ,and when these propositions were agreed to also1 he turned about and said3 ,just such a man1 ,i take it1 is before you in the person of ,antisthenes6 7#ig7 7#ig7 ,see ,diog4 ,laert4 ,antisth4 ,,vi4 i4 #h2 ,plut4 ,symp4 ii4 #a4 #ejc4 ,whereupon ,antisthenes exclaimed3 ,what6 are you going to pass on the business8 will you devolve this art of yours on me as your successor1 ,socrates8 7#ih7 7#ih7 ,or1 going to give up business1 and hand on the trade to me as your successor8 ,i will1 upon my word1 ,i will 7he answered73 since ,i see that you have practised to some purpose1 nay elaborated1 an art which is the handmaid to this other4 ,and what may that be8 asked ,antisthenes4 ,soc4 ,the art of the procurer4 7#ii7 7#ii7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,theaet4 #aej ,a2 ,aristot4 ,eth4 ,n4 v4 #b1 #ac2 ,aeschin4 #c1 #g2 ,plut4 ,solon1 #bc4 ,the other 7in a tone of deep vexation73 ,pray1 what thing of the sort are you aware ,i ever perpetrated8 ,soc4 ,i am aware that it was you who introduced our host here1 ,callias1 to that wise man ,prodicus2 7#ajj7 they were a match1 you saw1 the one enamoured of philosophy1 and the other in need of money4 ,it was you again1 ,i am well enough aware1 who introduced him once again to ,hippias 7#aja7 of ,elis1 from whom he learnt his art of memory2 7#ajb7 since which time he has become a very ardent lover1 7#ajc7 from inability to forget each lovely thing he sets his eyes on4 ,and quite lately1 if ,i am not mistaken1 it was you who sounded in my ears such praise of our visitor from ,heraclea1 7#ajd7 that first you made me thirst for his society1 and then united us4 7#aje7 ,for which indeed ,i am your debtor1 since ,i find him a fine handsome fellow and true gentleman4 7#ajf7 ,and did you not1 moreover1 sing the praises of ,aeschylus of ,phlius 7#ajg7 in my ears and mine in his8--in fact1 affected us so much by what you said1 we fell in love and took to coursing wildly in pursuit of one another like two dogs upon a trail4 7#ajh7 7#ajj7 ,or1 the sage1 the sophist4 ,see ,mem4 ,i4 vi4 #ac2 ,,ii4 i4 #ba4 7#aja7 ,see ,mem4 ,,iv4 iv4 #e2 and for his art of memory cf4 ,plat4 ,hipp4 min4 #cfh ,d2 ,hipp4 maj4 #bhe ,e4 7#ajb7 ,the memoria technica 7see ,aristot4 de ,an4 iii4 #c1 #f71 said to have been invented by ,simonides of ,ceos4 ,cic4 de ,or4 ii4 #hf2 de ,fin4 ii4 #cb2 ,quinct4 xi4 #b4 #eei4 7#ajc7 ,or1 has grown amorous to a degree 7al4 an adept in love's lore himself4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,rep4 #dgd ,d1 an authority in love4-- ,jowett7 for the simple reason he can't forget each lovely thing he once has seen4 ,through the ars memoriae of ,hippias1 it becomes an idee fixe of the mind4 7#ajd7 ,perhaps ,zeuxippus4 ,see ,plat4 ,prot4 #cah ,b4 ,al4 ,zeuxis1 also a native of ,heraclea4 ,see ,mem4 ,i4 iv4 #c2 ,econ4 x4 #a4 7#aje7 ,or1 introduced him to me4 ,cf4 ,econ4 iii4 #ad2 ,plat4 ,lach4 #bjj ,d4 7#ajf7 ,an out-and-out kalos te kagathos4 7#ajg7 ,who this ,phliasian is1 no one knows4 7#ajh7 ,al4 like two hounds chevying after one another4 ,with such examples of your wonder-working skill before my eyes1 ,i must suppose you are a first-rate matchmaker4 ,for consider1 a man with insight to discern two natures made to be of service to each other1 and with power to make these same two people mutually enamoured6 ,that is the sort of man1 ,i take it1 who should weld together states in friendship2 cement alliances with gain to the contracting parties2 7#aji7 and1 in general1 be found an acquisition to those several states2 to friends and intimates1 and partisans in war1 a treasure worth possessing4 7#aaj7 ,but you1 my friend1 you got quite angry4 ,one would suppose ,i had given you an evil name in calling you a first-rate matchmaker4 7#aji7 ,al4 and cement desirable matrimonial connections4 ,cf4 ,aristot4 ,pol4 iii4 #i1 #ac4 #abhj ,b2 v4 #d1 #e-h4 #acjc ,b4 7#aaj7 ,see the conversation with ,critobulus1 so often referred to1 peri philias1 in ,mem4 ,,ii4 vi4 ,yes 7he answered meekly71 but now ,i am calm4 ,it is clear enough1 if ,i possess these powers ,i shall find myself surcharged with spiritual riches4 ,in this fashion the cycle of the speeches was completed4 7#aaa7 7#aaa7 ,see ,hug1 ,einleitung1 xxxi4 ,quellen des ,platonischen ,symposion4 ,v ,then ,callias3 ,our eyes are on you1 ,critobulus4 ,yours to enter the lists 7#a7 against the champion ,socrates1 who claims the prize of beauty4 ,do you hesitate8 7#a7 ,soph4 ,fr4 #bcd2 ,thuc4 i4 #ic4 ,soc4 ,likely enough he does1 for possibly he sees ,sir ,pandarus stands high in their esteem who are the judges of the contest4 ,in spite of which 7retorted ,critobulus71 ,i am not for drawing back4 7#b7 ,i am ready2 so come on1 and if you have any subtle argument to prove that you are handsomer than ,i am1 now's your time1 instruct us4 ,but just stop one minute2 have the goodness1 please1 to bring the lamp a little closer4 7#b7 ,or1 ,i do2 but all the same1 ,i am not for shirking4 ,cf4 ,aristoph4 ,frogs1 #hfj1 etiomos eum egoge1 kouk anaduomai1 daknein3 ,i'm up to it2 ,i am resolved 7,frere72 ,dem4 de ,f4 ,leg4 #djf #bj3 ,his resolution never reached that point1 but shrank back1 for his conscience checked it 7,kennedy74 ,soc4 ,well then1 ,i call upon you first of all1 as party to this suit1 to undergo the preliminary examination4 7#c7 ,attend to what ,i say1 and please be good enough to answer4 7#c7 ,the anakrisis1 or previous inquiry 7before one of the archons7 of parties concerned in a suit1 to see whether the action lay4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,charm4 #agf ,c4 ,see ,gow1 ,companion1 xiv4 #gd4 ,crit4 ,do you be good enough yourself to put your questions4 ,soc4 ,do you consider that the quality of beauty is confined to man1 or is it to be found in other objects also8 ,what is your belief on this point8 ,crit4 ,for my part1 ,i consider it belongs alike to animals--the horse1 the ox--and to many things inanimate3 that is to say1 a shield1 a sword1 a spear are often beautiful4 ,soc4 ,how is it possible that things1 in no respect resembling one another1 should each and all be beautiful8 7#d7 7#d7 ,see ,mem4 ,,iii4 viii4 #e1 quoted by ,galen1 de ,usu ,part4 i4 #cgj4 ,crit4 ,of course it is1 ,god bless me6 if well constructed by the hand of man to suit the sort of work for which we got them1 or if naturally adapted to satisfy some want1 the things in either case are beautiful4 ,soc4 ,can you tell me1 then1 what need is satisfied by our eyes8 ,crit4 ,clearly1 the need of vision4 ,soc4 ,if so1 my eyes are proved at once to be more beautiful than yours4 ,crit4 ,how so8 ,soc4 ,because yours can only see just straight in front of them1 whereas mine are prominent and so projecting1 they can see aslant4 7#e7 7#e7 ,or1 squint sideways and command the flanks4 ,crit4 ,and amongst all animals1 you will tell us that the crab has loveliest eyes8 7#f7 ,is that your statement8 7#f7 ,or1 is best provided in respect of eyeballs4 ,soc4 ,decidedly1 the creature has4 ,and all the more so1 since for strength and toughness its eyes by nature are the best constructed4 ,crit4 ,well1 let that pass4 ,to come to our two noses1 which is the more handsome1 yours or mine8 ,soc4 ,mine1 ,i imagine1 if1 that is1 the gods presented us with noses for the sake of smelling4 ,your nostrils point to earth2 but mine are spread out wide and flat1 as if to welcome scents from every quarter4 ,crit4 ,but consider1 a snubness of the nose1 how is that more beautiful than straightness8 7#g7 7#g7 ,or1 your straight nose4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,theaet4 #bji ,c3 ,soc4 ,or1 if ,i had further known you not only as having nose and eyes1 but as having a snub nose and prominent eyes1 should ,i have any more notion of you than myself and others who resemble me8 ,cf4 also ,aristot4 ,pol4 v4 #i1 #g3 ,a nose which varies from the ideal of straightness to a hook or snub may still be a good shape and agreeable to the eye2 but if the excess be very great1 all symmetry is lost1 and the nose at last ceases to be a nose at all on account of some excess in one direction or defect in the other2 and this is true of every other part of the human body4 ,the same law of proportion holds in states4--,jowett4 ,soc4 ,for this good reason1 that a snub nose does not discharge the office of a barrier2 7#h7 it allows the orbs of sight free range of vision3 whilst your towering nose looks like an insulting wall of partition to shut off the two eyes4 7#i7 7#h7 ,or1 the humble snub is not a screen or barricade4 7#i7 ,cf4 ,love's ,labour ,lost1 v4 #b4 #efh3 ,boyet4 ,your nose says no1 you are not1 for it stands too right2 also ,the ,song of ,solomon1 vii4 #d3 ,thy nose is the tower of ,lebanon1 which looketh toward ,damascus4 ,as to the mouth 7proceeded ,critobulus71 ,i give in at once2 for1 given mouths are made for purposes of biting1 you could doubtless bite off a much larger mouthful with your mouth than ,i with mine4 ,soc4 ,yes1 and you will admit1 perhaps1 that ,i can give a softer kiss than you can1 thanks to my thick lips4 ,crit4 ,it seems ,i have an uglier mouth than any ass4 ,soc4 ,and here is a fact which you will have to reckon with1 if further evidence be needed to prove that ,i am handsomer than you4 ,the naiads1 nymphs1 divine1 have as their progeny ,sileni1 who are much more like myself1 ,i take it1 than like you4 ,is that conclusive8 ,nay1 ,i give it up 7cried ,critobulus71 ,i have not a word to say in answer4 ,i am silenced4 ,let them record the votes4 ,i fain would know at once what ,i must suffer or must pay4 7#aj7 ,only 7he added7 let them vote in secret4 7#aa7 ,i am afraid your wealth and his 7,antisthenes'7 combined may overpower me4 7#aj7 ,for this formula see ,dict4 ,ant4 timema4 ,cf4 ,econ4 xi4 #be2 ,plat4 ,apol4 #cf ,b2 ,statesm4 #bii ,a2 ,laws1 freq42 ,dem4 #ebi4 #bc2 #ecc4 #b4 7#aa7 ,and not as in the case described 7,thuc4 iv4 #gd71 where the people 7at ,megara7 were compelled to give sentence on the political opponents of the oligarchs by an open vote4 ,cf4 ,lysias1 #acc1 #ab1 ten de psephon ouk eis kadiskous1 alla phaneran epi tas trapezas tautas dei tithenai4 ,accordingly the boy and girl began to register the votes in secret1 while ,socrates directed the proceedings4 ,he would have the lamp-stand 7#ab7 this time brought close up to ,critobulus2 the judges must on no account be taken in2 the victor in the suit would get from the two judges1 not a wreath of ribands 7#ac7 for a chaplet1 but some kisses4 7#ab7 ton lukhnon here1 above1 ,s4 #b1 ton lamptera4 ,both1 ,i take it1 are oil-lamps1 and differ merely as light and lamp4 7#ac7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,symp4 #bac2 ,hell4 ,v4 i4 #c4 ,when the urns were emptied1 it was found that every vote1 without exception1 had been cast for ,critobulus4 7#ad7 7#ad7 ,lit4 ,when the pebbles were turned out and proved to be with ,critobulus1 ,socrates remarked1 ',papae6' which is as much to say1 ,od's pity6 ,whereat ,socrates3 ,bless me6 you don't say so8 ,the coin you deal in1 ,critobulus1 is not at all like that of ,callias4 ,his makes people just2 whilst yours1 like other filthy lucre1 can corrupt both judge and jury4 7#ae7 7#ae7 kai dikastas kai kritas1 both jury and presiding judges1 i4e4 the company and the boy and girl4 ,,vi ,thereupon some members of the party called on ,critobulus to accept the meed of victory in kisses 7due from boy and girl72 others urged him first to bribe their master2 whilst others bandied other jests4 ,amidst the general hilarity ,hermogenes alone kept silence4 ,whereat ,socrates turned to the silent man1 and thus accosted him3 ,hermogenes1 what is a drunken brawl8 ,can you explain to us8 ,he answered3 ,if you ask me what it is1 ,i do not know1 but ,i can tell you what it seems to me to be4 ,soc4 ,that seems as good4 ,what does it seem8 ,her4 ,a drunken brawl1 in my poor judgment1 is annoyance caused to people over wine4 ,soc4 ,are you aware that you at present are annoying us by silence8 ,her4 ,what1 whilst you are talking8 ,soc4 ,no1 when we pause a while4 ,her4 ,then you have not observed that1 as to any interval between your talk1 a man would find it hard to insert a hair1 much more one grain of sense4 ,then ,socrates3 ,o ,callias1 to the rescue6 help a man severely handled by his cross-examiner4 ,call4 ,with all my heart 7and as he spoke he faced ,hermogenes74 ,why1 when the flute is talking1 we are as silent as the grave4 ,her4 ,what1 would you have me imitate ,nicostratus 7#a7 the actor1 reciting his tetrameters 7#b7 to the music of the fife8 ,must ,i discourse to you in answer to the flute8 7#a7 ,see ,cobet1 ,pros4 ,xen4 p4 #ec2 and cf4 ,diog4 ,laert4 iv4 #c1 #d2 ,polyaen4 vi4 #aj2 ,hell4 ,,iv4 viii4 #ah4 7#b7 ,see ,aristoph4 ,clouds1 where ,socrates is giving ,strepsiades a lesson in measures1 #fci-fdf3 poteron to trimetron e to tetrametron4 ,then ,socrates3 ,by all that's holy1 ,i wish you would1 ,hermogenes4 ,how delightful it would be4 ,just as a song sounds sweeter in concert with the flute1 so would your talk be more mellifluous attuned to its soft pipings2 and particularly if you would use gesticulation like the flute-girl1 to suit the tenor of your speech4 ,here ,callias demanded3 ,and when our friend 7,antisthenes7 essays to cross-examine people 7#c7 at a banquet1 what kind of piping 7#d7 should he have8 7#c7 ,or1 a poor body1 in reference to the elentic onslaught made on himself by ,antisthenes above4 7#d7 to aulema1 a composition for reed instruments1 music for the flute4 ,cf4 ,aristoph4 ,frogs1 #acjb4 ,ant4 ,the person in the witness-box would best be suited with a serpent-hissing theme4 7#e7 7#e7 ,or1 motif on a scrannel pipe4 ,see ,l4 ,s4 s4v4 puthaules4 ,cf4 ,poll4 iv4 #ha1 puthikon aulema1 an air 7nomos7 played on the puthois aulos1 expressing the battle between ,apollo and the ,python1 the hiss of which was imitated4 ,thus the stream of talk flowed on2 until the ,syracusan1 who was painfully aware that while the company amused themselves1 his exhibition was neglected1 turned1 in a fit of jealous spleen1 at last on ,socrates4 7#f7 7#f7 ,the ,syracusan is 'civil as an orange1 and of that jealous complexion4' ,the ,syr4 ,they call you ,socrates4 ,are you that person commonly nicknamed the thinker8 7#g7 7#g7 ,apparently he has been to see the ,clouds 7exhibited first in #dbc ,b4,c471 and has conceived certain ideas concerning ,socrates1 a wise man1 who speculated about the heaven above1 and searched into the earth beneath1 and made the worse appear the better cause4 ,plat4 ,apol4 #ah ,b1 #ai ,c4 ,clouds1 #aja1 #cfj1 khair o presbuta 444 ton nun meteorosophiston444 ta te meteora phrontistes4 ,soc4 ,which surely is a better fate than to be called a thoughtless person8 ,the ,syr4 ,perhaps1 if you were not thought to split your brains on things above us--transcendental stuff4 7#h7 7#h7 ,or1 if only you were held to be less 'meteoric1' less head-in- airy in your speculations4 ,soc4 ,and is there anything more transcendental than the gods8 ,the ,syr4 ,by heaven6 no1 it is not the gods above us whom you care for1 but for matters void of use and valueless4 7#i7 7#i7 ,it is impossible to give the play on words4 ,the ,syr4 anophelestaton4 ,soc4 ano444 ophelousin4 ,schenkl after ,madvig emend43 ton ano en nephelais onton but for things in the clouds above4 ,soc4 ,it seems1 then1 by your showing ,i do care for them4 ,how value less the gods1 not more1 if being above us they make the void of use to send us rain1 and cause their light to shine on us8 ,and now1 sir1 if you do not like this frigid 7#aj7 argument1 why do you cause me trouble8 ,the fault is yours4 7#aa7 7#aj7 ,cf4 ,cyrop4 ,,viii4 iv4 #bb1 #bc4 7#aa7 pho parekhousin444 pragmata moi parekhon4 ,lit4 cause light 444 causing me trouble4 ,well1 let that be 7the other answered72 answer me one question3 ,how many fleas' feet distance is it1 pray1 from you to me8 7#ab7 ,they say you measure them by geometric scale4 7#ab7 ,see ,aristoph4 ,clouds1 #add foll43 aneret' arti ,khairephonta ,sokrates psullan oposous alloito tous autes podas dakousa gar444 ,cf4 ,lucian1 ii4 ,prom4 in ,verb4 #f1 and ,hudibras1 the ,second ,part of1 canto iii43 ,how many scores a ,flea will jump ,of his own length from ,head to ,rump ,which ,socrates and ,chaerephon ,in vain essayed so long agon4 ,but here ,antisthenes1 appealing to ,philippus1 interposed3 ,you are a man full of comparisons4 7#ac7 ,does not this worthy person strike you as somewhat like a bully seeking to pick a quarrel8 7#ad7 7#ac7 ,like ,biron1 ,l4 ,l4 ,l4 v4 #b4 #hed4 ,or1 you are a clever caricaturist4 ,see ,plat4 ,symp4 #bae ,a2 ,hug1 ,enleitung1 xiv42 ,aristoph4 ,birds1 #hjd 7,frere1 p4 #agc72 ,wasps1 #acji4 7#ad7 ,aristoph4 ,frogs1 #heg1 ,for it ill beseems illustrious bards to scold like market-women4 7,frere1 p4 #bfi72 ,knights1 #adaj1 to bully2 ,eccles4 #adb3 kai loidorountai g' osper empepokotes1 kai ton paroinount' ekpherous' oi toxotai4 ,yes 7replied the jester71 he has a striking likeness to that person and a heap of others4 ,he bristles with metaphors4 ,soc4 ,for all that1 do not you be too eager to draw comparisons at his expense1 or you will find yourself the image of a scold and brawler4 7#ae7 7#ae7 ,or1 a striking person4 ,phil4 ,but what if ,i compare him to all the primest creatures of the world1 to beauty's nonpareils1 7#af7 to nature's best--,i might be justly likened to a flatterer but not a brawler4 7#ag7 7#af7 ,lit4 compare him to those in all things beauteous and the best4 ,with tois pasi kalois kai tois beltistois cf4 ,thuc4 v4 #bh1 oi ',argeioi arista eskhon tois pasi1 ,the ,argives were in excellent condition in all respects4 ,as to ,philippus's back-handed compliment to the showman1 it reminds one of ,peter ,quince's commendation of ,bottom3 ,yea and the best person too2 and he is a very paramour for a sweet voice4 7#ag7 ,it is not easy to keep pace with the merryman's jests2 but if ,i follow his humour1 he says to ,socrates3 ,if the cap is to fit1 you must liken me to one who quits 'assault and battery' for 'compliments 7sotto voce1 lies7 and flattery4' ,soc4 ,why now1 you are like a person apt to pick a quarrel1 since you imply they are all his betters4 7#ah7 7#ah7 ,when ,socrates says ei pant' autou beltio phes einai1 k4t4l41 the sense seems to be3 ,no1 if you say that all these prime creatures are better than he is1 you are an abusive person still4 ,phil4 ,what1 would you have me then compare him to worse villains8 ,soc4 ,no1 not even to worse villains4 ,phil4 ,what1 then1 to nothing1 and to nobody8 ,soc4 ,to nought in aught4 ,let him remain his simple self-- ,phil4 ,incomparable4 ,but if my tongue is not to wag1 whatever shall ,i do to earn my dinner8 ,soc4 ,why1 that you shall quite easily1 if with your wagging tongue you do not try to utter things unutterable4 ,here was a pretty quarrel over wine soon kindled and soon burnt4 ,,vii ,but on the instant those who had not assisted in the fray gave tongue1 the one part urging the jester to proceed with his comparisons1 and the other part dissuading4 ,the voice of ,socrates was heard above the tumult3 ,since we are all so eager to be heard at once1 what fitter time than now to sing a song1 in chorus4 ,and suiting the action to the words1 he commenced a stave4 ,the song was barely finished1 when a potter's wheel was brought in1 on which the dancing-girl was to perform more wonders4 ,at this point ,socrates addressed the man of ,syracuse3 ,it seems ,i am likely to deserve the title which you gave me of a thinker in good earnest4 ,just now ,i am speculating by what means your boy and girl may pass a happy time1 and we spectators still derive the greatest pleasure from beholding them2 and this1 ,i take it1 is precisely what you would yourself most wish4 ,now ,i maintain1 that throwing somersaults in and out of swords is a display of danger uncongenial to a banquet4 ,and as for writing and reading on a wheel that all the while keeps whirling1 ,i do not deny the wonder of it1 but what pleasure such a marvel can present1 ,i cannot for the life of me discover4 ,nor do ,i see how it is a whit more charming to watch these fair young people twisting about their bodies and imitating wheels than to behold them peacefully reposing4 ,we need not fare far afield to light on marvels1 if that is our object4 ,all about us here is full of marvel2 we can begin at once by wondering1 why it is the candle gives a light by dint of its bright flame1 while side by side with it the bright bronze vessel gives no light1 but shows within itself those other objects mirrored4 7#a7 ,or1 how is it that oil1 being moist and liquid1 keeps that flame ablaze1 but water1 just because it is liquid1 quenches fire4 ,but no more do these same marvels tend to promote the object of the wine-cup4 7#b7 7#a7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,,iv4 vii4 #g4 ,socrates' criticism of ,anaxagoras' theory with regard to the sun4 7#b7 ,lit4 work to the same end as wine4 ,but now1 supposing your young people yonder were to tread a measure to the flute1 some pantomime in dance1 like those which the ,graces and the ,hours with the ,nymphs are made to tread in pictures1 7#c7 ,i think they would spend a far more happy time themselves1 and our banquet would at once assume a grace and charm unlooked for4 7#c7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,laws1 vii4 #hae ,c2 ,hor4 ,carm4 i4 #d4 #f3 iunctaeque ,nymphis ,gratiae decentes alterno terram quatiunt pede4 ,the ,graces and the ,nymphs1 together knit1 ,with rhythmic feet the meadow beat 7,conington74 ,ib4 iv4 #g4 #e4 ,the ,syracusan caught the notion readily4 ,by all that's holy1 ,socrates 7he cried71 a capital suggestion1 and for my part1 ,i warrant you1 ,i will put a piece upon the stage1 which will delight you1 one and all4 ,,viii ,with these words the ,syracusan made his exit1 bent on organising his performance4 7#a7 ,as soon as he was gone1 ,socrates once more essayed a novel argument4 7#b7 ,he thus addressed them3 7#a7 sunekroteito1 on the composition of his piece4 ,al4 amidst a round of plaudits4 7#b7 ,struck the keynote of a novel theme4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,symp4 #agg ,e4 ,it were but reasonable1 sirs1 on our part not to ignore the mighty power here present1 7#c7 a divinity in point of age coequal with the everlasting gods1 yet in outward form the youngest1 7#d7 who in magnitude embraces all things1 and yet his shrine is planted in the soul of man4 ,love 7#e7 is his name6 and least of all should we forget him who are one and all votaries of this god4 7#f7 ,for myself ,i cannot name the time at which ,i have not been in love with some one4 7#g7 ,and ,charmides here has1 to my knowledge1 captivated many a lover1 while his own soul has gone out in longing for the love of not a few himself4 7#h7 ,so it is with ,critobulus also2 the beloved of yesterday is become the lover of to-day4 ,ay1 and ,niceratus1 as ,i am told1 adores his wife1 and is by her adored4 7#i7 ,as to ,hermogenes1 which of us needs to be told 7#aj7 that the soul of this fond lover is consumed with passion for a fair ideal--call it by what name you will--the spirit blent of nobleness and beauty4 7#aa7 ,see you not what chaste severity dwells on his brow2 7#ab7 how tranquil his gaze2 7#ac7 how moderate his words2 how gentle his intonation2 now radiant his whole character4 ,and if he enjoys the friendship of the most holy gods1 he keeps a place in his regard for us poor mortals4 ,but how is it that you alone1 ,antisthenes1 you misanthrope1 love nobody8 7#c7 ,cf4 ,shelley1 ,hymn to ,intellectual ,beauty3 ,the awful shadow of some unseen ,power ,floats1 though unseen1 among us4444 7#d7 ,reading with ,l4 ,d4 after ,blomfield 7,aesch4 ,ag4 p4 #cjd71 idrumenou1 or if as vulg4 isoumenou1 transl4 but in soul is fashioned like to mortal man4 7#e7 ,eros4 7#f7 ,or1 who are each and all of us members of his band4 ,for thiasotai cf4 ,aristot4 ,eth4 ,n4 viii4 #i4 #e2 ,aristoph4 ,frogs1 #cbg4 7#g7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,symp4 #agg ,d3 ,no one will vote against you1 ,erysimachus1 said ,socrates2 on the only subject 7ta erotika7 of which ,i profess to have any knowledge1 ,i certainly cannot refuse to speak1 nor1 ,i presume1 ,agathon and ,pasuanias2 and there can be no doubt of ,arisophanes1 who is the constant servant of ,dionysus and ,aphrodite2 nor will any one disagree of those ,i see around me 7,jowett74 7#h7 ,or1 has had many a passionate admirer1 and been enamoured of more than one true love himself4 ,see ,plat4 ,charm41 ad in4 7#i7 ,for ,love and ,love-for-,love1 eros and anteros1 see ,plat4 ,phaedr4 #bee ,d4 ,cf4 ,aristot4 ,eth4 ,n4 ix4 #a4 7#aj7 ,lit4 which of us but knows his soul is melting away with passion4 ,cf4 ,theocr4 xiv4 #bf4 7#aa7 ,lit4 beautiful and gentle manhood4 7#ab7 ,lit4 how serious are his brows4 7#ac7 ,the phrases somehow remind one of ,sappho's famous ode3 phainetai moi kenos isos theoisin emmen oner1 ostis enantios toi izanei1 kai plasion adu phoneusas upakouei kai gelosas imeroen4 ,but there we must stop4 ,hermogenes is a sort of ,sir ,percivale1 such a courtesy spake thro' the limbs and in the voice4 ,nay1 so help me ,heaven6 7he replied71 but ,i do love most desperately yourself1 ,o ,socrates6 ,whereat ,socrates1 still carrying on the jest1 with a coy1 coquettish air1 7#ad7 replied3 ,yes2 only please do not bother me at present4 ,i have other things to do1 you see4 7#ad7 ,al4 like a true coquet4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,phaedr4 #bbh ,c4 ,antisthenes replied3 ,how absolutely true to your own character1 arch go-between6 7#ae7 ,it is always either your familiar oracle won't suffer you1 that's your pretext1 and so you can't converse with me2 or you are bent upon something or somebody else4 7#ae7 ,see ,mem4 ,,iii4 xi4 #ad4 ,then ,socrates3 ,for ,heaven's sake1 don't carbonado 7#af7 me1 ,antisthenes1 that's all4 ,any other savagery on your part ,i can stand1 and will stand1 as a lover should4 ,however 7he added71 the less we say about your love the better1 since it is clearly an attachment not to my soul1 but to my lovely person4 7#af7 ,or1 tear and scratch me4 ,and then1 turning to ,callias3 ,and that you1 ,callias1 do love ,autolycus1 this whole city knows and half the world besides1 7#ag7 if ,i am not mistaken2 and the reason is that you are both sons of famous fathers1 and yourselves illustrious4 ,for my part ,i have ever admired your nature1 but now much more so1 when ,i see that you are in love with one who does not wanton in luxury or languish in effeminacy1 7#ah7 but who displays to all his strength1 his hardihood1 his courage1 and sobriety of soul4 ,to be enamoured of such qualities as these is a proof itself of a true lover's nature4 7#ag7 ,lit4 many a foreign visitor likewise4 7#ah7 ,see the ,attic type of character1 as drawn by ,pericles1 ,thuc4 ii4 #dj4 ,whether indeed ,aphrodite be one or twain 7#ai7 in personality1 the heavenly and the earthly1 ,i cannot tell1 for ,zeus1 who is one and indivisible1 bears many titles4 7#bj7 ,but this thing ,i know1 that these twain have separate altars1 shrines1 and sacrifices1 7#ba7 as befits their nature--she that is earthly1 of a lighter and a laxer sort2 she that is heavenly1 purer and holier in type4 ,and you may well conjecture1 it is the earthly goddess1 the common ,aphrodite1 who sends forth the bodily loves2 while from her that is named of heaven1 ,ourania1 proceed those loves which feed upon the soul1 on friendship and on noble deeds4 ,it is by this latter1 ,callias1 that you are held in bonds1 if ,i mistake not1 ,love divine4 7#bb7 ,this ,i infer as well from the fair and noble character of your friend1 as from the fact that you invite his father to share your life and intercourse4 7#bc7 ,since no part of these is hidden from the father by the fair and noble lover4 7#ai7 ,for ,aphrodite ,ourania and ,pandemos see ,plat4 ,symp4 #ahj4 7#bj7 ,lit4 that is believed to be the same4 ,see ,cic4 ,de ,n4 ,d4 iii4 #af4 ,cf4 ,aesch4 ,prom4 #baj 7of ,themis and ,gaia71 pollon onomaton morphe mia4 7#ba7 e4g4 to ,aphrodite ,pandemos a white goat1 mekas leuke1 but to ,aphrodite ,ourania a heifer1 and thusiai nephaliai1 offerings without wine1 i4e4 of water1 milk1 and honey4 ,schol4 to ,soph4 ,oed4 ,col4 #ajj2 ,lucian1 lxvii4 ,dial4 ,mer4 #g4 #a4 7#bb7 ,lit4 by ,eros4 7#bc7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,prot4 #cah ,a2 ,aristoph4 ,thesmoph4 #ba1 learned conversazioni4 ,hermogenes broke in3 ,by ,hera1 ,socrates1 ,i much admire you for many things1 and now to see how in the act of gratifying ,callias you are training him in duty and true excellence4 7#bd7 7#bd7 ,lit4 teaching him what sort of man he ought to be4 ,this1 as we know1 is the very heart and essence of the ,socratic 7 ,,xs7 method4 ,see ,mem4 ,i4 ii4 #c4 ,why1 yes 7he said71 if only that his cup of happiness may overflow1 ,i wish to testify to him how far the love of soul is better than the love of body4 ,without friendship1 7#be7 as we full well know1 there is no society of any worth4 ,and this friendship1 what is it8 ,on the part of those whose admiration 7#bf7 is bestowed upon the inner disposition1 it is well named a sweet and voluntary compulsion4 ,but among those whose desire 7#bf7 is for the body1 there are not a few who blame1 nay hate1 the ways of their beloved ones4 ,and even where attachment 7#bf7 clings to both1 7#bg7 even so the bloom of beauty after all does quickly reach its prime2 the flower withers1 and when that fails1 the affection which was based upon it must also wither up and perish4 ,but the soul1 with every step she makes in her onward course towards deeper wisdom1 grows ever worthier of love4 7#be7 ,lit4 ,that without love no intercourse is worth regarding1 we all know4 7#bf7 ,n4,b4--agamenon1 epithumounton1 sterxosi4 ,here1 as often1 the author seems to have studied the orthoepeia of ,prodicus4 ,see ,mem4 ,,ii4 i4 #bd4 7#bg7 i4e4 body and character4 ,ay1 and in the enjoyment of external beauty a sort of surfeit is engendered4 ,just as the eater's appetite palls through repletion with regard to meats1 7#bh7 so will the feelings of a lover towards his idol4 ,but the soul's attachment1 owing to its purity1 knows no satiety4 7#bi7 ,yet not therefore1 as a man might fondly deem1 has it less of the character of loveliness4 7#cj7 ,but very clearly herein is our prayer fulfilled1 in which we beg the goddess to grant us words and deeds that bear the impress of her own true loveliness4 7#ca7 7#bh7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,,iii4 xi4 #ac4 7#bi7 ,lit4 is more insatiate4 ,cf4 ,charles ,wesley's hymn3 ,o ,love ,divine1 how sweet ,thou art6 ,when shall ,i find my willing heart ,all taken up by ,thee8 7#cj7 ,lit4 is she1 the soul1 more separate from ,aphrodite4 7#ca7 ,or1 stamped with the image of ,aphrodite4 ,zeune cf4 ,lucr4 i4 #bd1 addressing ,venus1 te sociam studeo scribendis versibus esse1 ,i would have thee for a helpmate in writing the verses4442 and below1 #bh1 quo magis aeternum da dictis1 diva1 leporem1 ,wherefore all the more1 ,o lady1 lend my lays an ever-living charm 7,h4 ,a4 ,j4 ,munro74 ,that a soul whose bloom is visible alike in beauty of external form1 free and unfettered1 and an inner disposition1 bashful1 generous2 a spirit 7#cb7 at once imperial and affable1 7#cc7 born to rule among its fellows--that such a being will1 of course1 admire and fondly cling to his beloved1 is a thesis which needs no further argument on my part4 ,rather ,i will essay to teach you1 how it is natural that this same type of lover should in turn be loved by his soul's idol4 7#cd7 7#cb7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,phaedr4 #beb ,e4 7#cc7 ,the epithet philophron occurs ,mem4 ,,iii4 i4 #f1 of a general2 ib4 ,,iii4 v4 #c 7according to the vulg4 reading71 of the ,athenians4 7#cd7 ,or1 the boy whom he cherishes4 ,how1 in the first place1 is it possible for him to hate a lover who1 he knows1 regards him as both beautiful and good8 7#ce7 and1 in the next place1 one who1 it is clear1 is far more anxious to promote the fair estate of him he loves 7#cf7 than to indulge his selfish joys8 and above all1 when he has faith and trust that neither dereliction1 7#cg7 nor loss of beauty through sickness1 nor aught else1 will diminish their affection4 7#ce7 ,or1 perfection4 7#cf7 ,lit4 the boy4 7#cg7 ,reading en para ti poiese4 ,al4 come what come may1 lit4 no alteration2 or if reading parebese transl4 although his ,may of youth should pass1 and sickness should mar his features1 the tie of friendship will not be weakened4 ,if1 then1 they own a mutual devotion1 7#ch7 how can it but be1 they will take delight in gazing each into the other's eyes1 hold kindly converse1 trust and be trusted1 have forethought for each other1 in success rejoice together1 in misfortune share their troubles2 and so long as health endures make merry cheer1 day in day out2 or if either of them should fall on sickness1 then will their intercourse be yet more constant2 and if they cared for one another face to face1 much more will they care when parted4 7#ci7 ,are not all these the outward tokens of true loveliness8 7#dj7 ,in the exercise of such sweet offices1 at any rate1 they show their passion for holy friendship's state1 and prove its bliss1 continuously pacing life's path from youth to eld4 7#ch7 ,for beauty of style 7in the original7 ,zeune cf4 ,mem4 ,,ii4 vi4 #bh foll42 ,,iii4 xi4 #aj4 7#ci7 ,albeit absent from one another in the body1 they are more present in the soul4 ,cf4 ,virg4 ,aen4 iv4 #hc1 illum absens absentem auditque videtque4 7#dj7 ,or1 bear the stamp of ,aphrodite4 ,but the lover who depends upon the body1 7#da7 what of him8 ,first1 why should love-for-love be given to such a lover8 because1 forsooth1 he bestows upon himself what he desires1 and upon his minion things of dire reproach8 or that what he hastens to exact1 infallibly must separate that other from his nearest friends8 7#da7 ,or1 is wholly taken up with4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,laws1 #hca ,c4 ,if it be pleaded that persuasion is his instrument1 not violence2 is that no reason rather for a deeper loathing8 since he who uses violence 7#db7 at any rate declares himself in his true colours as a villain1 while the tempter corrupts the soul of him who yields to his persuasions4 7#db7 ,cf4 ,hiero1 iii4 #c2 ,cyrop4 ,,iii4 i4 #ci4 ,ay1 and how should he who traffics with his beauty love the purchaser1 any more than he who keeps a stall in the market-place and vends to the highest bidder8 ,love springs not up1 ,i trow1 because the one is in his prime1 and the other's bloom is withered1 because fair is mated with what is not fair1 and hot lips are pressed to cold4 ,between man and woman it is different4 ,there the wife at any rate shares with her husband in their nuptial joys2 but here conversely1 the one is sober and with unimpassioned eye regards his fellow1 who is drunken with the wine of passion4 7#dc7 7#dc7 ,lit4 by ,aphrodite4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,phaedr4 #bdj1 ,but the lover 444 when he is drunk 7,jowett72 ,symp4 #bad ,c4 ,wherefore it is no marvel if1 beholding1 there springs up in his breast the bitterest contempt and scorn for such a lover4 ,search and you shall find that nothing harsh was ever yet engendered by attachment based on moral qualities2 whilst shameless intercourse1 time out of mind1 has been the source of countless hateful and unhallowed deeds4 7#dd7 7#dd7 ,zeune cf4 ,ael4 ,v4 ,h4 viii4 #i1 re ,archelaus king of ,macedon1 concerning whom ,aristotle1 ,pol4 v4 #aj4 #acaa ,b3 ,many conspiracies have originated in shameful attempts made by sovereigns on the persons of their subjects4 ,such was the attack of ,crataeus upon ,archelaus1 etc4 7,jowett74 ,i have next to show that the society of him whose love is of the body1 not the soul1 is in itself illiberal4 ,the true educator who trains another in the path of virtue1 who will teach us excellence1 whether of speech or conduct1 7#de7 may well be honoured1 even as ,cheiron and ,phoenix 7#df7 were honoured by ,achilles4 ,but what can he expect1 who stretches forth an eager hand to clutch the body1 save to be treated 7#dg7 as a beggar8 ,that is his character2 for ever cringing and petitioning a kiss1 or some other soft caress1 7#dh7 this sorry suitor dogs his victims4 7#de7 ,phoenix addresses ,achilles1 ,il4 ix4 #ddc3 muthon te reter' emenai1 prektera te ergon ,therefore sent he 7,peleus7 me to thee to teach thee all things1 ,to be both a speaker of words and a doer of deeds 7,w4 ,leaf74 7#df7 ,see ,il4 xi4 #hca2 ,hunting1 ch4 i41 as to ,cheiron and his scholars1 the last of whom is ,achilles4 7#dg7 an periepoito4 ,he will be scurvily treated4 ,cf4 ,hell4 ,,iii4 i4 #ai4 7#dh7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,i4 ii4 #bi4 ,if my language has a touch of turbulence1 7#di7 do not marvel3 partly the wine exalts me2 partly that love which ever dwells within my heart of hearts now pricks me forward to use great boldness of speech 7#ej7 against his base antagonist4 ,why1 yes indeed1 it seems to me that he who fixes his mind on outward beauty is like a man who has taken a farm on a short lease4 ,he shows no anxiety to improve its value2 his sole object being to take off it the largest crops he can himself4 ,but he whose heart is set on loyal friendship resembles rather a man who has a farmstead of his own4 ,at any rate1 he scours the wide world to find what may enhance the value of his soul's delight4 7#ea7 7#di7 ,or1 wantonness2 and for the apology see ,plat4 ,phaedr4 #bch3 ,i appear to be in a divine fury1 for already ,i am getting into dithyrambics 7,jowett74 7#ej7 ,lit4 to speak openly against that other sort of love which is its rival4 7#ea7 ,cf4 ,michelet1 ,i think1 as to the ,french peasant-farmer regarding his property as sa femme4 ,again1 let us consider the effect upon the object of attachment4 ,let him but know his beauty is a bond sufficient to enthrall his lover1 7#eb7 and what wonder if he be careless of all else and play the wanton4 ,let him discover1 on the contrary1 that if he would retain his dear affection he must himself be truly good and beautiful1 and it is only natural he should become more studious of virtue4 ,but the greatest blessing which descends on one beset with eager longing to convert the idol of his soul into a good man and true friend is this3 necessity is laid upon himself to practise virtue2 since how can he hope to make his comrade good1 if he himself works wickedness8 ,is it conceivable that the example he himself presents of what is shameless and incontinent1 7#ec7 will serve to make the beloved one temperate and modest8 7#eb7 ,or1 that by largess of beauty he can enthrall his lover4 7#ec7 ,see ,plat4 ,symp4 #ahb ,a1 #aib ,a4 ,i have a longing1 ,callias1 by mythic argument 7#ed7 to show you that not men only1 but gods and heroes1 set greater store by friendship of the soul than bodily enjoyment4 ,thus those fair women 7#ee7 whom ,zeus1 enamoured of their outward beauty1 wedded1 he permitted mortal to remain2 but those heroes whose souls he held in admiration1 these he raised to immortality4 ,of whom are ,heracles and the ,dioscuri1 and there are others also named4 7#ef7 ,as ,i maintain1 it was not for his body's sake1 but for his soul's1 that ,ganymede 7#eg7 was translated to ,olympus1 as the story goes1 by ,zeus4 ,and to this his very name bears witness1 for is it not written in ,homer8 ,and he gladdens 7ganutai7 to hear his voice4 7#eh7 ,this the poet says1 meaning he is pleased to listen to his words4 7#ed7 ,or1 ,i have a desire to romance a little1 for your benefit to explain by legendary lore4 ,cf4 ,isocr4 #abj ,c2 ,plat4 ,rep4 #cib ,b4 7#ee7 e4g4 ,leda1 ,danae1 ,europa1 ,alcmena1 ,electra1 ,latona1 ,laodamia 7,zeune74 7#ef7 ,see ,hunting1 i42 ,hell4 ,,vi4 iii4 #f4 7#eg7 ,see ,plat4 ,phaedr4 #bee ,c2 ,cic4 ,tusc4 i4 #bf1 nec ,homerum audio 444 divina mallem ad nos1 a protest against anthropomorphism in religion4 7#eh7 ,not in our version of ,homer1 but cf4 ,il4 xx4 #dje1 ganutai de te tois ',enosikhthon2 ,il4 xiii4 #dic1 ganutai d' ara te phrena poimen4 ,and again1 in another passage he says3 ,knowing deep devices 7medea7 in his mind1 7#ei7 which is as much as to say1 knowing wise counsels in his mind4 ,ganymede1 therefore1 bears a name compounded of the two words1 joy and counsel1 and is honoured among the gods1 not as one whose body1 but whose mind gives pleasure4 7#ei7 ,partly ,il4 xxiv4 #fgd1 pukina phresi mede' ekhontes2 and ,il4 xxiv4 #dbd1 phila phresi medea eidos4 ,cf4 ,od4 vi4 #aib2 xviii4 #fg1 #hg2 xxii4 #dgf4 ,furthermore 7,i appeal to you1 ,niceratus71 7#fj7 ,homer makes ,achilles avenge ,patroclus in that brilliant fashion1 not as his favourite1 but as his comrade4 7#fa7 ,yes1 and ,orestes and ,pylades1 7#fb7 ,theseus and ,peirithous1 7#fc7 with many another noble pair of demigods1 are celebrated as having wrought in common great and noble deeds1 not because they lay inarmed1 but because of the admiration they felt for one another4 7#fj7 ,as an authority on ,homer4 7#fa7 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,symp4 #agi ,e3 ,the notion that ,patroclus was the beloved one is a foolish error into which ,aeschylus has fallen1 etc4 7in his ,myrmidons74 ,see ,j4 ,a4 ,symonds1 ,the ,greek ,poets1 #bnd series1 ,achilles1 p4 #ff foll4 7#fb7 ,concerning whom ,ovid 7,pont4 iii4 #b4 #gj7 says1 nomina fama tenet4 7#fc7 ,see ,plut4 ,thes4 #cj foll4 7,clough1 i4 p4 #cj foll472 cf4 ,lucian1 xli4 ,toxaris1 #aj4 ,nay1 take the fair deeds of to-day3 and you shall find them wrought rather for the sake of praise by volunteers in toil and peril1 than by men accustomed to choose pleasure in place of honour4 ,and yet ,pausanias1 7#fd7 the lover of the poet ,agathon1 7#fe7 making a defence in behalf 7#ff7 of some who wallow in incontinence1 has stated that an army composed of lovers and beloved would be invincible4 7#fg7 ,these1 in his opinion1 would1 from awe of one another1 have the greatest horror of destruction4 ,a truly marvellous argument1 if he means that men accustomed to turn deaf ears to censure and to behave to one another shamelessly1 are more likely to feel ashamed of doing a shameful deed4 ,he adduced as evidence the fact that the ,thebans and the ,eleians 7#fh7 recognise the very principle1 and added3 ,though they sleep inarmed1 they do not scruple to range the lover side by side with the beloved one in the field of battle4 ,an instance which ,i take to be no instance1 or at any rate one-sided1 7#fi7 seeing that what they look upon as lawful with us is scandalous4 7#gj7 ,indeed1 it strikes me that this vaunted battle-order would seem to argue some mistrust on their part who adopt it--a suspicion that their bosom friends1 once separated from them1 may forget to behave as brave men should4 ,but the men of ,lacedaemon1 holding that if a man but lay his hand upon the body and for lustful purpose1 he shall thereby forfeit claim to what is beautiful and noble--do1 in the spirit of their creed1 contrive to mould and fashion their beloved ones to such height of virtue1 7#ga7 that should these find themselves drawn up with foreigners1 albeit no longer side by side with their own lovers1 7#gb7 conscience will make desertion of their present friends impossible4 ,self-respect constrains them3 since the goddess whom the men of ,lacedaemon worship is not ,shamelessness1 but ,reverence4 7#gc7 7#fd7 ,see ,cobet1 ,pros4 ,xen4 p4 #ae2 ,plat4 ,protag4 #cae ,d2 ,ael4 ,v4 ,h4 ii4 #ba4 7#fe7 ,ib42 ,aristot4 ,poet4 ix4 7#ff7 ,or1 in his ',apology' for4 7#fg7 ,plat4 ,symp4 #agi ,e1 puts the sentiment into the mouth of ,phaedrus3 ,and if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves1 they would be the very best governors of their own city1 abstaining from all dishonour1 and emulating one another in honour2 and when fighting at one another's side1 although not a mere handful1 they would overcome the world4 ,for what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved1 either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms8 ,he would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this4 ,or would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger8 ,the veriest coward would become an inspired hero1 equal to the bravest1 at such a time2 ,love would inspire him4 ,that courage which1 as ,homer says1 the god breathes into the soul of heroes1 ,love of his own nature infuses into the lover 7,jowett74 ,cf4 ,hunting1 xii4 #bj2 ,anab4 ,,vii4 iv4 #g2 ,cyrop4 ,,vii4 i4 #cj4 7#fh7 ,sc4 in their institutions4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,symp4 #ahb1 in ,elis and ,boeotia2 ,pol4 ,lac4 ii4 #ac2 ,ael4 ,v4 ,h4 iii4 #ab1 xiii4 #e2 ,athen4 xiii4 #b4 ,for the ,theban ,sacred ,band see ,plut4 ,pelop4 #ah1 #ai 7,clough1 ii4 #bah74 7#fi7 ,or1 not in pari materia1 so to speak4 7#gj7 ,is not ,xenophon imputing himself to ,socrates8 ,henkel cf4 ,plat4 ,crito1 #eb ,e4 ,see ,newman1 op4 cit4 i4 #cif4 7#ga7 ,or1 shape to so fine a manhood that444 7#gb7 ,reading en te aute taxei4 ,al4 444 polei1 transl4 nor indeed in the same city4 ,cf4 ,hell4 ,v4 iv4 #cc1 re death of ,cleonymus at ,leuctra4 7#gc7 ,lit4 ,aidos not ,anaideia4 ,see ,paus4 ,lac4 xx4 #aj2 ,attica1 xvii4 #a2 ,cic4 de ,leg4 ii4 #aa1 a reference which ,i owe to ,m4 ,eugene ,talbot1 ,xen4 i4 #bcf4 ,i fancy we should all agree with one another on the point in question1 if we thus approached it4 ,ask yourself to which type of the two must he 7#gd7 accord1 to whom you would entrust a sum of money1 make him the guardian of your children1 look to find in him a safe and sure depositary of any favour8 7#ge7 ,for my part1 ,i am certain that the very lover addicted to external beauty would himself far sooner have his precious things entrusted to the keeping of one who has the inward beauty of the soul4 7#gf7 7#gd7 ,he 7the master-mistress of my passion74 7#ge7 kharitas kindly offices1 beneficia4 ,cf4 ,ages4 iv4 #d2 ,mem4 ,,iv4 iv4 #ag4 ,al4 delicias1 to deposit some darling object4 7#gf7 ,or1 some one truly lovable in soul and heart4 ,ah1 yes6 and you1 my friend 7he turned to ,callias71 you have good reason to be thankful to the gods who of their grace inspired you with love for your ,autolycus4 ,covetous of honour1 7#gg7 beyond all controversy1 must he be1 who could endure so many toils and pains to hear his name proclaimed 7#gh7 victor in the pankration4 7#gg7 ,see ,mem4 ,,ii4 iii4 #af2 ,isocr4 #ahi ,c1 ph4 kai megalopsukhoi4 7#gh7 i4e4 by the public herald4 ,but what if the thought arose within him3 7#gi7 his it is not merely to add lustre to himself and to his father1 but that he has ability1 through help of manly virtue1 to benefit his friends and to exalt his fatherland1 by trophies which he will set up against our enemies in war1 7#hj7 whereby he will himself become the admired of all observers1 nay1 a name to be remembered among ,hellenes and barbarians4 7#ha7 ,would he not in that case1 think you1 make much of 7#hb7 one whom he regarded as his bravest fellow-worker1 laying at his feet the greatest honours8 7#gi7 ,cf4 ,theogn4 #idg3 patrida kosmeso1 liparen polin1 out' epi demo trepsas out' adikois andrasi peithomenos4 7#hj7 ,who in #dba ,b4,c4 were of course the ,lacedaemonians and the allies4 ,autolycus was killed eventually by the ,thirty to please the ,lacedaemonian harmost4 ,see ,plut4 ,lysand4 #ae 7,clough1 iii4 #abj72 ,paus4 i4 #ah4 #c2 ix4 #cb4 #h4 ,cf4 ,hell4 ,,ii4 iii4 #ad4 7#ha7 ,cf4 ,anab4 ,,iv4 i4 #bj2 ,mem4 ,,iii4 vi4 #b4 7#hb7 periepein4 ,cf4 ,cyrop4 ,,iv4 iv4 #ab2 ,mem4 ,,ii4 ix4 #e4 ,if1 then1 you wish to be well-pleasing in his eyes1 you had best inquire by what knowledge ,themistocles 7#hc7 was able to set ,hellas free4 ,you should ask yourself1 what keen wit belonged to ,pericles 7#hc7 that he was held to be the best adviser of his fatherland4 ,you should scan 7#hd7 the field of history to learn by what sage wisdom ,solon 7#he7 established for our city her consummate laws4 ,i would have you find the clue to that peculiar training by which the men of ,lacedaemon have come to be regarded as the best of leaders4 7#hf7 ,is it not at your house that their noblest citizens are lodged as representatives of a foreign state8 7#hg7 7#hc7 ,see ,mem4 ,,ii4 vi4 #ac2 ,,iii4 vi4 #b2 ,,iv4 ii4 #b4 7#hd7 ,for the diction1 skepteon1 skepteon1 aphreteon1 ereuneteon1 epistamenos1 eidos1 philosopheras1 ,xenophon's rhetorical style imitates the orthoepeia of ,prodicus4 7#he7 ,see ,econ4 xiv4 #d4 7#hf7 ,or1 won for themselves at all hands the reputation of noblest generalship4 ,cf4 ,ages4 i4 #c2 ,pol4 ,lac4 xiv4 #c4 7#hg7 ,reading as vulg4 proxenoi d' ei444 or if with ,schenkl1 proxenos d' ei444 transl4 ,you are their consul-general2 at your house their noblest citizens are lodged from time to time4 ,as to the office1 cf4 ,dem4 #dge4 #aj2 #abcg4 #ag2 ,thuc4 ii4 #bi2 ,boeckh1 ,p4 ,e4 ,a4 #ej4 ,callias appears as the ,lac4 proxenos 7,hell4 ,v4 iv4 #bb7 #cgh ,b4,c41 and at ,sparta1 #cga ,b4,c41 as the peace commissioner 7,hell4 ,,vi4 iii4 #c74 ,be sure that our state of ,athens would speedily entrust herself to your direction were you willing4 7#hh7 ,everything is in your favour4 ,you are of noble family1 eupatrid by descent1 a priest of the divinities1 7#hi7 and of ,erechtheus' famous line1 7#ij7 which with ,iacchus marched to encounter the barbarian4 7#ia7 ,and still1 at the sacred festival to-day1 it is agreed that no one among your ancestors has ever been more fitted to discharge the priestly office than yourself2 yours a person the goodliest to behold in all our city1 and a frame adapted to undergo great toils4 7#hh7 ,cf4 ,mem4 ,,iii4 vii4 7#hi7 i4e4 ,demeter and ,core4 ,callias 7see ,hell4 ,,vi4 l4c47 was dadouchos 7or torch-holder7 in the mysteries4 7#ij7 ,or1 whose rites date back to ,erechtheus4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,theag4 #abb4 7#ia7 ,at ,salamis4 ,the tale is told by ,herod4 viii4 #fe1 and ,plut4 ,themist4 #ae2 cf4 ,polyaen4 ,strat4 iii4 #aa4 #b4 ,just as ,themistocles had won the battle of ,salamis by help of ,iacchus on the #afth ,boedromion1 the first day of the mysteries1 so ,chabrias won the sea-fight of ,naxos by help of the day itself1 to ',alade mustai1 #cgf ,b4,c4 ,but if ,i seem to any of you to indulge a vein more serious than befits the wine-cup1 marvel not4 ,it has long been my wont to share our city's passion for noble-natured souls1 alert and emulous in pursuit of virtue4 ,he ended1 and1 while the others continued to discuss the theme of his discourse1 ,autolycus sat regarding ,callias4 ,that other1 glancing the while at the beloved one1 turned to ,socrates4 ,call4 ,then1 ,socrates1 be pleased1 as go-between1 7#ib7 to introduce me to the state1 that ,i may employ myself in state affairs and never lapse from her good graces4 7#ic7 7#ib7 ,lit4 as pander4 7#ic7 ,so ,critobulus in the conversation so often referred to4 ,mem4 ,,ii4 vi4 ,never fear 7he answered71 if only people see your loyalty to virtue is genuine1 7#id7 not of mere repute4 ,a false renown indeed is quickly seen for what it is worth1 being tested2 but true courage 7#ie7 7save only what some god hinder7 perpetually amidst the storm and stress of circumstance 7#if7 pours forth a brighter glory4 7#id7 ,see ,mem4 ,i4 vii4 #a1 passim2 ,,ii4 vi4 #ci2 ,econ4 x4 #i4 7#ie7 ,cf4 ,thuc4 ii4 #db1 andragathia1 true courage in the public service covers a multitude of private shortcomings4 7#if7 en tais praxesi4 ,cf4 ,plat4 ,phaedr4 #bga ,d1 in actual life4 ,,ix ,on such a note he ended his discourse4 ,at that1 ,autolycus1 whose hour for walking exercise had now come1 arose4 ,his father1 ,lycon1 was about to leave the room along with him1 but before so doing1 turned to ,socrates1 remarking3 ,by ,hera1 ,socrates1 if ever any one deserved the appellation beautiful and good1 7#a7 you are that man6 7#a7 ,for kalos ge kalathos see ,econ4 vii4 #b and passim4 ,so the pair departed4 ,after they were gone1 a sort of throne was first erected in the inner room abutting on the supper chamber4 ,then the ,syracusan entered1 with a speech3 ,with your good pleasure1 sirs1 ,ariadne is about to enter the bridal chamber set apart for her and ,dionysus4 ,anon ,dionysus will appear1 fresh from the table of the gods1 wine-flushed1 and enter to his bride4 ,in the last scene the two will play 7#b7 with one another4 7#b7 paixountai4 ,the ,syracusan naturally uses the ,doric form4 ,see ,cobet1 ,pros4 ,xen4 p4 #af1 note #bc4 ,rutherford1 ,n4 ,phrynicus1 p4 #ia4 ,he had scarce concluded1 when ,ariadne entered1 attired like a bride4 ,she crossed the stage and sate herself upon the throne4 ,meanwhile1 before the god himself appeared a sound of flutes was heard2 the cadence of the ,bacchic air proclaimed his coming4 ,at this point the company broke forth in admiration of the ballet-master4 ,for no sooner did the sound of music strike upon the ear of ,ariadne than something in her action revealed to all the pleasure which it caused her4 ,she did not step forward to meet her lover1 she did not rise even from her seat2 but the flutter of her unrest was plain to see4 7#c7 7#c7 ,lit4 the difficulty she had to keep so still was evident4 ,when ,dionysus presently caught sight of her he loved1 lightly he danced towards her1 and with show of tenderest passion gently reclined upon her knees2 his arms entwined about her lovingly1 and upon her lips he sealed a kiss2 7#d7--she the while with most sweet bashfulness was fain to wind responsive arms about her lover2 till the banqueters1 the while they gazed all eyes1 clapped hands and cried ,encore6 ,but when ,dionysus rose upon his feet1 and rising lifted ,ariadne to her full height1 the action of those lovers as they kissed and fondled one another was a thing to contemplate4 7#e7 ,as to the spectators1 they could see that ,dionysus was indeed most beautiful1 and ,ariadne like some lovely blossom2 nor were those mocking gestures1 but real kisses sealed on loving lips2 and so1 7#f7 with hearts aflame1 they gazed expectantly4 ,they could hear the question asked by ,dionysus1 did she love him8 and her answer1 as prettily she swore she did4 ,and withal so earnestly1 not ,dionysus only1 but all present1 had sworn an oath in common3 the boy and girl were verily and indeed a pair of happy lovers4 ,so much less did they resemble actors1 trained to certain gestures1 than two beings bent on doing what for many a long day they had set their hearts on4 7#d7 ,or1 and encircling his arms about her impressed upon her lips a kiss4 7#e7 ,or1 then was it possible to see the more than mimic gestures4 7#f7 ,or1 on the tiptoe of excitement4 ,cf4 ,hell4 ,,iii4 i4 #ad1 iv4 #b4 ,at last when these two lovers1 caught in each other's arms1 were seen to be retiring to the nuptial couch1 the members of the supper party turned to withdraw themselves2 and whilst those of them who were unmarried swore that they would wed1 those who were wedded mounted their horses and galloped off to join their wives1 in quest of married joys4 ,only ,socrates1 and of the rest the few who still remained behind1 anon set off with ,callias1 to see out ,lycon and his son1 and share the walk4 ,and so this supper party1 assembled in honour of ,autolycus1 broke up4